Are Jusuf Nurkic & Grayson Allen Still the Right Starters For the Phoenix Suns?

Are Jusuf Nurkic & Grayson Allen Still the Right Starters For the Phoenix Suns?

today unlocked on suns Matt is and James Jones both told us to kick off the off season that they expected all five Sun starters to be back but is that the best plan and if not what’s the optimal version of a sun starting lineup around the big three you are locked on suns your daily Phoenix Suns podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day and we’re back this is locked on Phoenix Suns part of the locked on podcast Network I’m Brendan clean your host credential Sons media member for the past seven seasons and the host of the just basketball show Welcome to locked on suns thank you for making us your first listen here on this Thursday if you haven’t already hit follow or subscribe we’re free and available on all podcast platforms including YouTube all you have to do is hit that button get a new episode in your feed every single Monday through Friday throughout the offseason and Beyond be coming every day or guys keep up with the Suns right here for the foreseeable future every day what more could you want all you got to do is hit that button and we’ll go through it all together today’s episode brought brought to you by the game time app the best place to buy a ticket download the game time app create an account use the code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase terms apply Yousef nurkic Grayson Allen Royce O’Neal gonna round out our look at the sun’s key players with today’s episode by looking at the starting lineup and again James Jones and mat ishbia in their end of season press conference that sort of kicked off of course the offseason season they both said their intention was to keep this fiveman unit together now there’s no reason to say the opposite you’re not going to say yeah we plan to trade Yousef of course but at the same time they didn’t have to say they would so Grayson of course is not going anywhere he can’t be El he’s not eligible for a trade until October but regardless of who’s on this roster frankly that doesn’t mean they’re a lock to start on the team so let’s start with nurkic as a reminder he last season played a lot of games which is important and one of the weird things about the Suns last year right uh Durant and nerk somehow the most injury-prone guys on the team in recent history ended up well be to of course but they ended up being the healthiest players which is great to see of course 76 games played for nurkic 27.3 minutes per game finished fourth overall in minutes played he also averaged uh just per game 11 11 and four with over a steel and a block per game he had that period early in the season where he was jacking threes ends up at just over one attempt per game but made less than 25% which if you watched the games should not come as much of a surprise for you it was ugly uh but look you just compare some of those numbers to his career long stats maybe not per game CU his minutes have fluctuated but if I’m just looking per 36 his scoring was down but his rebounds and assists were up and that’s it’s really what you wanted to would have wanted to see his two-point efficiency was down his free throw shooting a little bit down but honestly mostly in line with the rest of his career and just to sort of look at nerk more granularly as we try to answer like how does he really fit what could the Suns get out of him that might look different or what could they get out of a different center to me the place that was the most frustrating I think is obvious to everybody right the Suns did not get consistency as a finisher from nurkic and they did not get consistency as a rim protector so at the highest levels in the most important games ideally a center’s job is to take away the paint now not every Center does that uh the same way not every Center even does that but that’s kind of the base level of what you want to see in the regular season nurkic made only 60% of his shots at The Rim which was in the 15th percentile um among players and in the playoffs he made let’s see 33% of his shots at the basket which feels impossible he only or or sorry that’s not right okay there we go it is impossible that’s why it felt that way 65% he was at 33 on floaters but just not good enough you know in a world where you know Bradley Beal’s finishing the same amount as you drew EU Banks is way better like for as big as nerites that’s just not going to cut it and when I also sort of look at onoff Stats here one thing that jumps out is as we look a little bit to the ideal rather than the the real even though nurkic is maybe not a consistent rebounder a consistent finisher a consistent rim protector one of the things that’s obvious is that he was the best option that the Suns had when he was on the court teams took fewer shots at The Rim opposing offenses to took fewer shots at the rim and they made fewer shots at The Rim you know um he was often times a portion that I haven’t hit on yet the best one of the best playmaking options for the Suns and again back to the paint when he was on the court I mentioned that he took away shots and makes at the rim for the opponent he also seemed to be somebody who could generate those for the team the Suns took almost 2% more shots at the basket when you if nurkic was on the court you talk about um transition nurkic helped juice the transition frequency some of those Outlet passes his ability to grab and go when he got a rebound and take it up the court even though he individually was a weak point for the Suns and I think we all would agree there at times he tended to help them do a lot of the things that we all wanted to see them do that’s a very strange situation right so honestly the thing I I was wondering about when I was prepping the show today is what could it look like for the Suns where maybe nurkic doesn’t get the ball as much all right because I think even though transition and pace and some of those things might have been a little better generating shots at the basket might have been a little better when he was out out there there is this odd thing where you wonder does nurkic have to have the ball to do what he does best it’s kind of the point guard conversation actually that’s a better way to put it it’s a version of the conversation we’ve all been having about point guards where maybe a point guard somebody who has a playmaking mentality and has a you know experience getting a team into their offense playing with the right pace you know going up against full court pressure all that stuff yeah okay that would help but is it taking away from what other players do so is there a version of nurkic that is involved less could you put him in the dunker spot rather than having him be an initiator could is there a world where he pulls a little bit of a rabbit out of a hat the same way Brook Lopez did under Mike buen are in takes and makes a lot more threes could I mean could he at age 29 improve as kind of that rle man not like he’s going to be soaring into the sky for lobs but could you potentially just have him catch take a dribble and finish better I kind of think the answer is no I kind of think the there I I I think maybe he could have a little bit of a better three-point shooting season we’ve seen him make him he’s just streaky maybe a you know mentality shift and a a full off season of embracing that we’ve seen crazier things I could see being in the dunker spot you know helping the Suns overall a little bit but if he’s not going to finish then he’s not much of a threat there anyway and he was more I would say maybe this is a stretch but I feel like defensive rebounding is a little more consistent for him than offensive rebounding maybe that’s not true I don’t know but I don’t think he’s some sort of massive differen maker on the offensive glass if he’s standing along the Baseline in that dunker spot either so that brings us to the idea where nurkic does kind of have to be involved in order to be his best if he’s not involved and he’s a little bit below average at some of those other things like finishing and rim protection and shooting and you know he’s not the most versatile defensive player given you know he’s not going to switch he’s probably not going to be some gobear type drop Defender just really blocking shots so if you’re including those limitations and you’re taking away the playmaking and the involvement on the defense on the offensive end that he did a lot of for this team it’s just not a very valuable player you add his salary in on top of that and I think maybe you lose a little bit of the playmaking maybe you lose a little bit of the post defense we talked about the you know um potential for three-point shooting he at least has that other players wouldn’t but I’m more and more sold on getting a better bigger Drew Eubanks type player to be the sun’s heavy minute Center next season more so than nurkic I’m going to set aside all the trades and all the combinations of ways that they can get that player but if I’m thinking in a vacuum and I look at the way that you know Booker had success with Aon at times and Durant had success with Claxton and even around the League what Luca and Kyrie are doing with you know lob threats interior athletic centers the Pacers have that the Thunder have that with Chad although he’s a five out guy too that’s what I would be trying to find draft trade minimum signing I don’t know where it comes from we’ve talked about the options but that’s what I’m looking for let’s go to Grayson Allen he provided maybe the best shooting season in the NBA last year was a godsend can handle the ball is he the right fit for that other Wing Spot alongside Booker and Beal or could they think about another potential option we’ll get into that next first Today’s Show brought to you by game time the best place to buy buy any ticket game time makes getting NBA Finals tickets even faster and easier as well maybe you’re in Dallas maybe you’re in Boston maybe you’re just looking for a vacation and you 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and great uh Jaylen Brunson in one case I believe you know the Nets game when was that Den witty who went off it was the best the Suns had for a lot of the season and I I mean Grayson I think is overmatched having to do that which is going to go into our conversation about his place within this team but if you’re looking at just this past season it’s hard to have asked for anything more than what he gave you on defense given what he was up against in the matchups he was facing the other part of what Grayson did for this team is he was a you know not ever a primary playmaker but somebody who could handle the ball I mean you think back to before this season before the Durant trade remember all those different things the Suns tried when it was Booker and Chris Paul and Chris would get pressured and those guys would get tired and worn down and we saw Jake Crowder and Mel Bridges and obviously campay and different guys just be the person to dribble the ball up and as we again talk about a point guard Allen filled in there you know and on top of the primary playmaking that he was doing he was more than comfortable to not just catch the ball and shoot it but if he had to you know read the floor that two dribbles in a good decision mentality that 0. five decision making where he’s you know I’m getting the close out the defense is in rotation let me catch maybe I pump thick maybe I don’t get into the teeth of the defense keep the the ball moving Keep The Possession going and a lot of the time he would get an assist out of that because he was so open that if he did put the ball on the ground and the defense had to fully recover over to him that’s going to create an opening somewhere else if he can drive all the way to the basket kick it back out for three he was a a solid part I mean the thing I said about Grayson over and over is the kind of you know Playground open gym type of offense that Booker and Durant seemed to thrive in that they want to play play that kind of you know spontaneous random type of basketball that I know we might not all agree is the right way to play but again we’re just talking about this past season they he fit perfectly into that and you saw it in a lot of different places I didn’t do this with nurkic uh I’ll say it now the suns were 9.3 points per 100 possessions better when nurkic was on the court this past season that speaks honestly to me more so than anything about how bad the sun’s backup big man rotation was than anything enormously valuable from nurkic specifically leave him alone though and Grayson they were 4.8 points better per 100 possessions when uh or they were plus 4.8 when Allen was out there they were plus they were more than five points better when he was on versus off but the more interesting number to look at with Allen is him plus the big three and that’s a number we all talked about a lot this past season but that offensive rating with those four guys on the court together was 124 that was one of the best fourman groups you could find in the NBA last year the only issue is the defense was almost as bad as the offense was good they gave up7 points per 100 possessions when those four players took the court together that’s not it’s just not going to cut it um opponents shot 57% from two in those four were out there and defensively that’s it’s not sustainable you can’t allow teams to score like that against you and win a lot of games even if your offense is really high powerered you got to be able to get stops and I think first and foremost you got to be able to put a little bit more size out there and so this shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody but considering that even up through the postseason I was advocating for O’Neal or anybody else to get a shot at that fifth starting spot right and it’s it really is truly it just comes down to size and athleticism and defensive Force Grayson had a record season for himself made a ton of money playing off of this big three it’s not his fault that two members of that big three are basically identical size to what he is but I love the idea because of those similarities between Allan Booker and Beal to have Allen just be a clone of those two dudes Off the Bench $18 million or whatever his salary is going to be this upcoming season around that that around that it’s a total totally normal number to pay a bench player to pay a six Man of the Year type of candidate also who cares about the money this seems expensive no matter what I don’t I’m just trying to build the best team whether it’s somebody like a Delon Wright who look I know is also similar size but brings a little bit more physicality and athleticism as a defensive player whether it is somebody in the draft like let’s say they don’t take a center or a point guard in the draft talked about a couple of those guys in yesterday’s show but let’s say they take a wing I believe Jaylen Tucker is a name that you’ve heard out there or mcculler um there’s also I talked about Jaylen Bridges as an option um from I believe Baylor at a in my best case scenario offseason episode that would be a pick the Suns don’t currently have that I sort of concocted in that EP in that exercise that episode but let’s say they take a wing player like that great maybe he’s the starting option maybe they get lucky in Kelly UB or some starting caliber Wing ends up available to them at 22 maybe they dra uh trade for somebody and let’s say they trade I mean in that exercise I didn’t even have that Bridges dude being the starter of course I had Grant Williams sliding in to become the starter and bringing Allen Off the Bench so the point is there’s a million ways to do it including one we’re going to close out the show with in the for of Royce O’Neal who is already on the roster but I just look at the way that Jaden McDaniels was able to just overpower the Suns in a secondary off ball role taking advantage of their size I look at the way that you know in various matchups the Clippers or um who are some other teams that spanked the Suns the Bucks were able to just use their size and their physicality and their strength and their Force advantage against the Suns and I’m I’m not going to be if I’m Frank wow habit there right Mike buen holer takes his place or if I’m James Jones building out this roster whatever the case is I’m not going to be able to feel comfortable given those ugly defensive Time moments that we saw from the whole team from Grayson specifically and the stats that back it up I’m not going to be comfortable rolling him out as a fifth starter on this team you add that to the fact that you could imagine a more structured offense next year with Bud making some changes there and the ability the opportunity to say if Booker and Beal are doing a little more as screeners as guys coming off of screens as Cutters and I have another guy to Ure sure that I have 48 full minutes of that type of gravity and that type of skill level at the two and the three spot that’s that’s actually going to go further toward making me a more balanced better team of course the difficulty is finding that player could it just be Royce O’Neal could it just be Royce O’Neal he’s bigger wingspan wise and height-wise by a few inches and has a little more strength and physicality to his game Frank vocal didn’t start him maybe Bud will get into that next first Today’s Show brought to you by prize picks the best place to play daily fantasy sports with prize picks you can turn $10 into a th000 in a single game watching your favorite sports All Summer Long make a prize pick lineup and is as few as 60 seconds pick two to six players based on their stat projections and you’re locked in if you’re looking for promos prize picks has you covered all week from lowering select players stats projections every Tuesday increasing your chance for a win or getting your entry fees back with a loss every Friday prize picks is America’s number one fantasy sports app with over 5 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three assists per game shot 38% from three All Things Considered frankly like that’s exactly what you wanted to get out of him when you got him he was uh a little negative on offense in terms of you know an all-in-one type of metric like box plus minus but he was a big positive in the defensive category honestly that’s what I was expecting he’s not a very versatile offensive player he’s not somebody who’s going to you know drive inside and score or you know put the ball in the basket much unless he he’s making an open three and even the threes frankly they’re 3/4s of his shot attempts but he’s streaky and we saw that and especially when he does hit a down a cold streak he’ll stop taking him and that’s a problem but he kind of makes up for that a little bit as a playmaker he helps the pace a lot of the things that the Suns did need so you add that I mean he what what was the height thing we finally figured out with him he he’s 6’8 right isn’t that what we landed on he confirmed it He’s listed at 6’4 no I think he’s 66 was what it ended up being He’s listed at 64 which is not not real um and defensively that’s the bigger question that’s the bigger mystery because not only is he because he’s not as quick or agile and he is a little he’s not old but he’s not young he wasn’t really somebody the suns were going to put on Anthony Edwards in that playoff series right I would imagine if and by some miracle they had won you know he’s not going to guard Jamal marray he’s also not really going to guard Nicole yic he’s more of a team defensive piece where if he’s guarding the point of attack guy or some kind of primary scoring option on the opposing team likely he’s not going to put up much resistance he’s sort of going to maybe execute the game plan stay attached be in the play make it a little hard but he’s not really a he’s not stopping anybody right and that’s not a disrespect there’s plenty of guys who can’t even do what I just said not everybody’s Jaden McDaniels but I think the more troubling thing is like he also can’t really guard up right so he couldn’t really guard Carl Anthony towns in that series which means one of the theoretically hypothetically the best defensive players on your roster can’t guard big guys who are the main threat he can’t guard guards who are the main threat so unless you’re getting lucky and you’re facing a team like you know maybe he’s an option against Luca or jdub on the Thunder or you know fill in the blank Tatum and unless it’s that type of Team where there’s a perfectly sized player he’s probably going to be kind of off the ball defensively you know and what is he really doing there again you’re sort of back to like okay sound principles and execution and communication veteran know how I don’t think the difference between that and Grayson Allen or I guess I should say between Grayson Allen and that is really that big I kind of think Royce O’Neal should probably be a bench player too and again I’m setting salary aside I don’t really care we we know that in part the suns are paying Allen or oal or any of these other guys a certain salary one because that’s just the price of doing business and two with the idea that maybe they can be tradable players so I mean yeah I guess having an $18 million guy and a potentially 13 14 million guy like O’Neal might get on his next contract this summer is that what you would draw up as far as how much you’re paying your bench players maybe not but who cares it’s not really what we’re talking about here we’re we’re talking in a vacuum and so to me look it’s sort of a lot to ask to say keep Allen because you you have to for now keep O’Neal resign him at whatever he’s worth but oh by the way neither one of those guys are actually going to be a Difference Maker you somehow or I guess like part of your best lineups you also then have to go out and find a player who’s better than both of them oh and also nurkic in order to to get where you want to go and that’s why I prefaced all the best case scenario offseason stuff that I said um with this is not easy this is not likely not all of these things are going to happen so that’s a good place to end actually right so I think with nurkic I told you a lob thread an athletic paint dweller bigger you know taller guy than Eubanks maybe the same height and length as nurkic but a little more athletic and traditional for Allen I think it’s not so much about a different version of Allen it’s just like that type of player to me isn’t really what the Suns want to put in there and with O’Neal it’s like the theory of reyce O’Neal maybe a younger Royce O’Neal could have been what the Suns needed but I want to gu stretch him out in both directions you know I want a little bigger I want a little longer maybe a little younger more athletic that’s just what’s winning right now you know I love O’Neal and and Allen in smaller roles but I think you could get guys who maybe do less just like with nurkic not going to be as good of a shooter as Allen maybe isn’t as comfortable with the ball in his hands but an average shooter Maybe a little more consistent than Royce O’Neal maybe not as you know comfortable in the chaos like Royce is and screening and moving the ball and being this sort of you know chess master out there on the court maybe it’s not quite as cerebral as that but you know not to keep driving and beating a dead horse with the comparisons of the teams that are in the finals right now but where’s the Sons Derrick Jones Jr right where is the Sons Isaiah Joe where is the Sons Aaron n Smith right Cleveland um well they’re sort of a weird example because they paid so much money to their top four guys but like frankly Isaac aoro wasn’t half bad Carris Levert uh take him or leave him Dean Wade just pulling names out of hats from other teams that are a little deeper and also went pretty far in the playoffs the Wolves gotten to kill Alexander Walker on the [Music] cheap the Suns need to find those guys cheaper maybe more limited players who fit who fill a role who bring something they don’t currently have and make them a more modern athletic team that’s what I’m looking for so we’re 0 for three in terms of the players that I just went through in a perfect world the Suns would find upgrades not from a talent perspective or a pedigree perspective but from a fit and a style standpoint over all three of nurkic Allen and O’Neal do I think that will happen who knows but that’s where I’m at that’s how big of a challenge the Suns front office has ahead of it and that’s how weird of a situation they’re in that they have three players who I’m telling you are good and yet I don’t think should be starting alongside their best three players Suns man what are you going to do all right that’ll wrap us up for the day enjoy your Thursday back on Friday with Steph pjon to talk through the draft I think question mark maybe the finals a little maybe wrap that into the Suns Steven’s great we’ll have a great conversation hit follow or subscribe to get it in your feed along with more episodes throughout the offseason keep it right here stay locked onto the Suns become an every D I’ll catch you guys tomorrow

Jusuf Nurkic and Grayson Allen played well for the Phoenix Suns last season but still don’t fit perfectly with the Big 3. How do the Suns address that issue?

Brendon Kleen of @justbasketballfans dissects Nurkic’s and Allen’s seasons before breaking down the qualities the Suns need from their starting center and forward. Then, a look at whether Royce O’Neale can be a solution or if the Suns need to look externally.

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