Rafael Barlowe on Bucks’ 2025 NBA Draft + Scouting Tyler Smith & Ryan Rollins (Hear District Ep. 68)
tyler Smith guy who I’m a big fan of i liked him enough last year where I would have took him in the lottery he was the only player in the draft that had 40 dunks and 40 threes in a season you know I actually told him I said “Man you need to be around Dame or Giannis if you can stick to those guys and and just learn from them you you’ll be fine.” So I I do think that he has a bright future i like the skill set but I said if his name was like Tyler Smith and he was from Serbia time allarus alongside Marcus Johnson what’s up everybody This is the here district captain of this vessel and I got my first mate my number one son Christian Johnson what up Talk to me let it rain man let it rain i guess I go guess what We’re going back to break welcome everybody to the here district market job you’re listening to a Bucks Plus audio production on the Bucks Plus Network your weekly pulse on the Milwaukee Bucks straight from a Bucks legend this is here district with Marcus Johnson alongside his son and 1995 NCAA champion Chris here’s MJ all right welcome everybody to Here District i am the captain of this vessel Marcus Johnson i got my first mate Chris Johnson raphael just bear with us we got to go through this little stick first at the start of every show but we are the only father and son to win a national championship at the same school in the NCAA a lot of guys not a lot a few guys have won championships father-son tandemss but we hold the distinction of being the only father and son to win one at the same school so uh that’s going to be always ours Raphael and no one can take that away from us and Raphael Barlo Raphael Barlo we welcome you to the show he’s the owner and director of scouting NBA big board uh host of Locked on NBA Big Board podcast he’s formerly worked in basketball operations in the GLeague and has uh really great insight in terms of what’s coming up this is our draft preview show and Raphael we’ve got one thing in common man one thing in common one thing you know what that is We got one thing in common probably more than one i know we both love our sons and hopefully me and my son can be what you guys are doing well no not that no not that was close that was close close horse horseshoes and hang grenades no no no of course I love my son i love all my sons i got uh enough of them to love five sons how many you got I’ve got five last last count no no no no i’ve got five five beautiful sons enough to start a basketball team as I hear all the time but here Raphael this is what we have in common man and when I heard you say this I had a natural gravitation gravitational affinity for you and your basketball evaluation skills okay okay there’s one player that you said you saw early on a couple of years ago you’re in Toledo looking at Toledo play against some unknown GD2 or something you saw a player that just jumped off the page at you who was that Ryan Rollins all right let’s go we’ll go through it for me what What was it about Ryan Rollins that that just just just you know really got your heart to to a flutter watching him play I was in Detroit and uh a friend of mine said “Hey man let’s let’s go check out this this kid Ryan Rollins it’s like all right you know it was short drive and it ended up being Ryan’s agent and Ryan wasn’t signed with him at the time and it was just a game against like a it might have been an NIA school was a preseason game and statistically he didn’t have like a monster game but just the pace the way he got to his mid-range pullup and he just looked like he just looked like a pro like he just stood out in in that setting and so from there I I tracked him the rest of the year and then I want to say maybe about February March I was like you know what I’m confident in my assessment this guy is a first round pick and I think I had him as a first round pick at that time he ended up being a second round pick but I caught a little flack for it because uh I was working with Chad Ford at the time and Chad is you know he was the founder of NBA Big Board before he passed it on to me and he wasn’t familiar with Ryan and he thought I was putting like my homeboy up on on on the big board and talking about somebody that was a close friend of mine like you had a cut you’re getting a cut for the contract or something yes so and and he was he was kind of thrown off by it because he wasn’t familiar with them and then he made some phone calls and I guess some scouts and GMs like no Rafael exactly right he’s he could go in that range so that was that was big for me as far as like feeling like one of the first people to really like talk about Ryan publicly yeah and for me so it was training camp first couple of days we had it out at UC Irvine i was in LA where I live and so I drove out to Irvine of the hourlong drive watching the first couple of days of camp man and this longarmed afroporting athletic 63 guard but he just had he had basketball savvy he just he just he just he just looked like he belonged out on the floor with the Dame Lillards and Giannis and all these other people and uh and coming in I think he spent a year with Golden State kind of their G-League system so that had to help him being around that kind of situation but that’s when I came out and said you know this guy’s going to make this team i mean he’s he’s got that he’s got that kind of presence he’s got he’s got NBA presence let me put it a lot of guys have skill a lot of guys have skill but but it’s an NBA presence that certain guys have and and Ryan Rollins man he had You think being in the Golden State system along with Steph and Clay and those guys that were there when he was there how much of how much of an impact do you think that could have on a young guy like Ryan Rollins I think they had an impact but I think I think it starts before that he was a late bloomer he wasn’t someone that you know people were talking about when he was in 10th grade so there’s like this this uh it’s like a quiet chip on his shoulder that he has and so he’s he’s confident but at the same time by him not being someone that everybody like crowned early I think that makes it easier for him to be a sponge and and want to learn so you know like kids nowadays man if you’re good you you you get invited to like the Steph Curry camps and and all these camps and you may be friends with Kevin Durant when you’re like 15 years old and for you’re text you’re texting KD and you’re texting Yeah yeah yeah they’re trying to get you to wear their shoes or whatever and and so for a guy like Ryan he probably didn’t have that i mean he went to Toledo he wasn’t like crazy highly recruited so for him it was probably like I got to be a st sponge i have to do what it takes to stick and so there’s probably like no sense of entitlement and I think that that really helps guys out especially young guys that are trying to trying to make their way into the league raphael when you project guys uh their ceiling and you look at a guy like Ryan Rollins you take all the underdog factor the chip on the shoulder factor now how how much of a how big of a deal is it when you’re projecting the guy’s long-term future as a scout that he does come from an underdog kind of DNA and underdog upbringing versus a guy that might have you know one of those blueb blood type pedigrees like where do you draw the line Is it physical intangibles Is it something you see a performance you know against a common opponent Like where do you draw the line on that I mean it’s a case by case scenario sometimes guys that have been like the dude from day one i think it’s a like a harder adjustment for them to play a role and to learn how to have to fit around guys i mean I’m familiar with with your family background so like you were a star i remember you were a star what were you the class of 97 9 i was uh 98 in college but 90 class of 94 in high school 94 high school i don’t know why I got that mixed up so anyway but I do remember like reading about you and Street Smith yeah and so um everybody was like good but when you went to UCLA you had to learn how to play with with better players and it had to scale down a bit and it happens at every level and so I think some guys we see it in high school to college and we see it from guys that are stars in college like maybe their game is best suited when they need a bunch of dribbles to score they got to bounce it and and they can’t come in and play with a guy like Giannis where you you might not get three dribbles so with that being said sometimes I look at the guys that are underdogs that I mean they may have been featured in college they’ve had to like work their way up to different levels and I think sometimes it can be easier for them to come in and play a complimentary role as opposed to a guy that you know was the man from day one and he’s always been featured and now he goes to a situation and he’s not featured and it’s it’s a real struggle and adjustment on top of all the you know professional you know leaps that that guys have to make so sometimes I like the underdogs because I think it’s it’s an easier fit well a and Ryan also had and it’s common knowledge it’s public knowledge let me put it that way maybe not common but had had you know had had some some adversity to go through and he went through that i think guys like Kevin Porter Jr some adversity to go through you know i think guys like that Raphael that that get us I won’t say a second chance but but but that adversity doesn’t speak so negatively about them and their character that they don’t get a chance to really play in the NBA i think when you get that opportunity like Ryan has had you know I think they really embrace that even more wholeheartedly than guys who have not gone through similar similar adversity adversity can be a good thing if channeled and directed properly yep and it just shows like you really have to be able to play to get a second chance because they don’t think you can play that’s real talk when you kick it off yeah yes yeah you got to get a second chance if they don’t think you can play i mean we’ve we’ve seen it i mean there’s guys one strike and and they’re done so um sometimes the adversity is good and and for some guys it’s it’s like they’re it’s over for them after that yeah now trust me I’m not I’m not saying that you you have to go out there and seek some adversity to be successful but but if it does happen uh and you’re good and then you get that second opportunity that’s a situation you can you can flourish in all right so let’s talk about these Bucks man the Bucks got the 47th pick in the draft uh pulled up a few names of some guys who were picked 47th who didn’t turn out too badly on the court at least paul Milsap on the court vernon Maxwell no no Vernon Maxwell was a heck of a player i love Mad Max i’m giving Mad Max I’m giving him some grief his recent podcast history with uh with Matt Barnes and and Stephen Jackson has been been very very entertaining for me but Gerald Wilkins was a 47th pick now this guy I’m gonna tell you something else you didn’t know i feel I was at a family reunion these young kids come running up to me and saying “You got a cousin that’s going to UCLA?” I’m like “Yeah who is that?” They brought him over and it was Ty Edney and Ty Edney was all about 5’9 you know i’m like “Oh okay he’s going to play basketball at UCLA.” Okay right sure but then that freshman year man he turned the Indiana game around and and really did well 47 pick yes quick on that to remember because I was at the family reunion with you so the thing rough about Taius 5’9 small little about 160 right but we were playing like this family reunion game of volleyball and if you know you play volleyball so Taius is literally getting a chest over the top of the net I saw about a 42 43 inch vertical on a 5’9 dude that’s when I knew MJ that like this dude is real so Tai’s 47 pick my my hook was a so so the point is is that you can get some value Now let’s keep it real it’s difficult it’s a challenge it doesn’t happen very often but you can find some guys at that pick that could really help your team and I don’t I don’t want to ask you the the the the you know the the the try the tired question of who do you where do you think the Bucks are going but what do you think you think the Bucks you’re looking at this draft and I heard you talk about the tears in this draft weren’t as deep as past drafts because of NIL money and a bunch of guys going back to school you think the Bucks should hold steady at 47 and roll the dice or you think it’s worth trying to move up in the second round if that opportunity presents itself Yeah I think it’s always worth trying to move up but for a team like the Bucks I think this draft because of the NIL you’re not really doing what they did last year last year they drafted AJ Johnson who was young it’s kind of like a It was the biggest shock for me swing for the fences and then Tyler Smith a guy who I’m a big fan of i liked him enough last year where I would have took him I would have took him in the lottery he was the only player in the draft that I I forgot the exact number 40 dunks and 40 threes in a season and you know that’s all the NBA is right now is they want you to score in the paint or outside and he was the only one that that had you know that volume on both little young but good kid and I think that um you know I actually told him I said man you need to you need to be around Dame or Giannis if you can stick to those guys and and just learn from them you you’ll be fine so I I do think that he has a bright future because he can shoot he has the size and uh he’s you know he can post up too once he gets once he gets stronger but I like the skill set i made a joke and and some people took it the wrong way and said I was being racist but I said if his name was like Tyler Smith and he was from Serbia Well the first guy I heard say that was a UCLA shooter he says “My name was Jason Caponovich.” Caponovich that’s where I got it if I was if I was Jason Caponovich I’d be in the first I’d be like the top three picks in the draft but because I’m from Artisia High School in LA yeah caponovich but listen Tyler so Tyler’s going to Greece tyler Smith uh Stanley Moody is going to Greece uh Chris Livingston Andre Jackson Jr Pete Nance Jamari Buouay i got the names i mentioned a couple of guys that aren’t aren’t going this year but I think that time with Giannis in Greece Giannis is bringing them all over going to work out for a good solid week to 10 days man and um and I like Tyler hopefully that that things like that will help him continue to progress up the developmental scale so uh he’s a good good young talent he’s looking good he’s looking good in the drills I saw this summer so now with this draft you’re not going to find 18 year olds in the second round because of NIL it makes absolutely no sense for you to be 18 and stay in the draft if you don’t have a top 25 maybe even top 20 range so with that being said I think at 47 the Bucks are more than likely to get someone that if they do make the team that they can contribute because it’s going to be somebody that has 90 to 100 games of college experience under their belt and they’re probably more prepared to come in and and play as opposed to the young guy that’s 18 he’s not strong enough he’s He’s just not ready to come in and contribute so I don’t think 47 is is a bad spot especially with this year because like I said there’s not a lot of freshman that are are young guys that were willing to bet on themselves well and also explain the Austin Reeves dynamic that that what what he did and and that that’s another factor that’s involved in in the talent pool that’s available yeah so the Austin Reeves first of all it takes big big guts to do what Austin Reeves did which was trust his agents who told him “Hey man you’re going to miss out on getting your name called but we think there’s the best situation for you that the Lakers don’t have a lot of room as far as to bring in other guys financially and they’re going to need some guys that are on lower-end salaries to come in and contribute.” And if I remember correctly there were some teams that are willing to draft Austin and maybe put him on the two-way but he said he wanted more than that or whatever it was a bit big risk i mean you work your whole life to hear your name called at the NBA draft and he chose not to have his name called and they already his agents Aaron Riley and um and and my guy Reg they they had they had a game plan for him very risky I’ll tell you that very risky what Austin believed and they thought that the Lakers would be a good fit he ended up making the team and if I’m not mistaken he got his contract converted from a maybe a two-way to a standard contract and he’s in position to get paid so it is a possibility and if I were agent and sometimes I like to think like an agent it’s it’s just fun to me to put my thought process in the mind of an agent the Bucks especially if my client is a shooter the Bucks would be a team that I would do something similar like hey you know the money’s a little tight there but I think that you compliment Giannis you have what they need and this would be a good fit for you but you you know I mean the Bucks actually have a pick but if if it were a situation where they didn’t the Bucks would be a team that I would I would try to make that gamble on yeah I think it’s a combination of both uh the undrafted free agent and in this 47 spot you talked about you threw some names out there um I listened to a podcast you did with uh Camille on locked on i love the name Kobe Brea uh you mentioned I’ve been watching him pure shooter as you mentioned 49% the year before space the floor again the Bucks got to be thinking about drafting around Giannis what type of pieces do you want to put around Giannis You talked about a potential uh replacement for Brooke or some reinforcements at the five big fella out of Kraton like that idea as well are there any other guys that you had in mind that fit the mold for that 47 pick or the undrafted free agent Like do you project guys that potentially could be an undrafted free agent And then if you do project them guys who are some of the shooters that you have going in that slot that maybe the Bucks didn’t think about Tyrese Proctor’s like the first name that comes to mind from Duke he’s a guy that I actually thought he was going to be a a first round pick after his freshman year at Duke and then they they moved him off the ball to me he’s a connector especially the way that Giannis played in the second half of the year we had the ball in his hands a little bit more yeah and Proctor would be like the the bigger guard that is fine playing a complimentary role i mean he played it with Cooper Flag this year he can be a secondary ball handler and he can knock down open shots but he has the size to where he can defend both guard positions so to me he’s like the type of guy that I would target as a complimentary guy for Giannis then there’s Chaz Laneir i don’t know if he if he’s going to be available but I mean he’s an incredible shooter i talked to a a a coach in the SEC and I was asking who’s the better shooter between Kobe Brea and Chaz Laneir and he thought Chaz Laneir because just the variety he said Kobe is a a guy that catch and shoot but he said Chaz shot about eight threes per game but he had to like score for Tennessee to win so it was step backs it was deep threes it was coming off pin downs y and just the way that he was the focal point of the offense as a guy that most of his work is as a three-point shooter he thought that that could translate a little bit better so Chaz Laneir is an option and then as far as bigs you got to find a big that can space the floor right And I mean Brooke is extremely rare like I don’t know too many guys in the NBA that can space the floor and protect the rim at the same time and it’s even crazier when you think that he was like a a traditional low post score when he was in he was in Brooklyn he was he was tough down there right But um yeah as far as bigs that can space the floor I think that’s going to be a little bit more more challenging because Brooke is is so unique very underrated i don’t think people realize how good Brook will both sides of his career like prior to the Bucks and then in the second stage of his career but I think it’s probably easier to find some wings let me let let me put your let you put your your your GM hat on you’re John Horse of the Milwaukee Bucks your John Horse and you talk about complimentary players i’m going throw a couple of names out there you got a choice between these two guys at whatever pick it is either 47 or maybe you move up i don’t know what you do but these two guys are still on the board eric Dixon or Cion James i would go with Cion James i like what Dixon brought to the table um I mean he shot the ball extremely well but I like Cion because I think that he’s the type of guy that he may be able to guard fours he may be able to guard threes he can serve as you know another ball handler he shot the ball well he played multiple roles when he was at Twain he was the guy and then he goes to Duke and he you know plays a back seat behind Khan Kipple who’s you know from the area Milwaukee area Cooper flag obviously and he just impacts winning and he doesn’t need to score a lot of points he doesn’t need to have the ball in his hands a lot to make an impact so I that would be my choice well I agree with you and let me let me say this because now Eric Dixon and I was looking at a video and I liked him i liked what I was seeing kind of a Michael Beasley poor man’s Michael Beasley the big lefty but then I’m looking at his numbers 23 points a game I mean he’s you know not he needs the basketball you know what I mean he he’s used to having the basketball and we talked about being able to fit in with Giannis and Dame when he comes back and and whomever else but but you’re going to need someone like you talked about Cooper Flag and Kenupula at Duke and how how well can James fit in with them i love his versatility man he I didn’t I thought he was more and and you tell me Raphael where you come down on this i thought he was similar to Chris Livingston in offensive skills but the more video I watched on him the more impressed I was with just the fluidity the movement the ability to score the the ability to get to his spot to create his own shot i mean he’s a he’s an interesting offensive player yeah definitely interesting and it’s no knock on Eric Dixon eric Dixon is a little older at 24 or he shot 40% from three and it just depends on how you look at it some may look at San James as a jack of all trades master of none and sometimes that helps you sometimes it hurts you dixon is unique i mean he’s got that i mean he he’s built like the power forge from your era like they were bruisers and and and and strong like I just listened to a Rasheed Wallace podcast he’s talking about how strong Terry Cummings was and just like that grown man strength eric Eric Dixon had grown man strength in college but he can shoot the ball so maybe he could be maybe he could play a role as like you know he’s on the court with Giannis and he just stands in the corner and he knocks down open threes so it just depends yeah are there any similarities between Cion uh defensively with PJ Tucker in your opinion It could be and you know like PJ had to like completely change his game to become a defender i mean he was he was a scorer at Texas yeah went overseas for about eight years i mean his his story is one of the one of the best in in my opinion just how he just had to like totally transform his game and just simplify like you know I’m gonna make all my money i’m going just stand in a corner that that’s it i’mma stand in a corner hey use his head yeah so if I’m signing that that that could be one of the guys I look I look at like all right yes I may not be able to play the the Swiss knife role in the NBA but if I can use my strength and and you know my the way I can move my feet to defend all over the floor and just be an efficient corner three guy if you can shoot in the corner you can defend that means you can complement the guys that are making 50 and $60 million and if you can compliment those guys you can stick have you seen enough of Ryan Nimhard to have an opinion on on whether or not his ability will translate as and I see him as as a backup kind of Taius Jones type um but but his ability I love his brother I mean Drew Nimhard in Indiana a lot of people didn’t have him going first round either yeah yeah but he’s small I mean six feet he’s smaller he’s like three or four inches smaller you know i mean with with the way the game the physical aspect of the game is picked up especially in the playoffs i mean smaller guards right now the Vanble Vleets and guys like that are they still going to be effective in today’s NBA if they allow this kind of physical play What’s interesting about that is when I look at a lot of the smaller guards in the NBA they were drafted years ago yes they found a way to stick but it seems like teams don’t like small guards now and they’re scared to draft them even though Rob Dillingham went number seven right But some of those guys have proven they can they can stick i just think teams are really scared to draft them with Nimhart so I am from Omaha and Ryan did go to Kraton his first I think two years so I am familiar with him and I was I was a little disappointed that that he left Kraton but he led the nation in assist and he’s a tough evout for me here’s why okay when you look at NBA drafts you think about all right if there’s 30 guys selected in the first round maybe 20 are going to stick i think Ryan Nimhart is going to stick which means I should have him as a first round pick and I I was just having a conversation with someone earlier i was looking at the 2014 draft 15 of those guys are already out of the league even though that was 10 years ago 15 guys quite a few of them were lottery picks and Bdon Bdanovich was like the 27th pick and he’s still a rotation player for for the Clippers so you can make a case and say he’s brought lottery value so with that being said Ryan Nimhard nobody hasn’t mocked as a firstrounder but he is someone that maybe we’re overthinking it because I think he can’t stick even if he’s Cory Joseph that means he’s going to play 10 years if you played 10 years that means you should hell of a career he had a hell of a career yeah he led the nation in assists i don’t think it was by mistake that when he got invited to the G-League elite camp I think two of the guys that got bumped up to the NBA combine were his teammates because he knew how to get them the ball the guy that I’m a big fan of Maxine Reo people saying he was the big winner of the combine well who was his teammate It was it was Ryan Nimhard ryan Nhard knew that Rayo had a 18-year-old kid from that was playing in Spain and he knew Rayo was 22 he knew that there was a you know a mismatch there and he fed him the ball early reo had 20 points and and people said he was the winner of the combine but a lot of that was because Nimhart was smart enough to understand the mismatch and and getting the ball so I think he’s going to stick i think he’s going to have a long career whether he plays a lot of minutes or not he’s the type of guy that you you want to fill out the back end of your roster as your your table setter backup point guard couple of guys I’m going to throw names out at you i just want to get your take on uh Julian Reese from Maryland well he’s got a famous sister Angel Reese so I mean I guess he’ll always be known as Angel Reese’s brother i like him um you know I think he’s going to be a guy that’s going to have to as they say now get it out the mud and I don’t think he’ll be drafted he’s going to have to probably start off in the G-League and and I think now I think it’s going to be even harder for guys to come from the G- League because they make so much money in college basketball yeah yeah yeah you were Yeah you were talking about a 13th pick that could make more going back to It was JT Toppen went to Texas went back to Texas Tech he got 4.1 million that is the equivalent of what the 13th pick would get so I wonder what Lambert Landerborg or what’s the guy’s name for He got about three three and a half something like that yeah that’s that’s crazy that is absolutely nuts all right so Julian and Julian Reese definitely a five i mean he any way he Okay he no way he he could translate he’s a straight five i didn’t see him space the floor i mean him and Queen played together derek Queen that is and I mean they played two like traditional Derek Queen’s not necessarily traditional but they played some would say two fives together at at Maryland so maybe you know maybe Ree can claw his way but I mean he does rebound he does some blueco collar stuff i just I just wonder with the G- League like how many guys are going from making millions in college and you know the college facilities are great to like man you mean I’m making like $50,000 a year and I gotta and the grind and the grind man we’re flying commercial we’re on Southwest all right next guy uh Kobe Sanders from Nevada i like Kobe uh he came on my podcast has a similar story to Ryan in a sense to where it wasn’t really highly touted he was you know grew up to be groomed to be a point guard and he grew to 69 and so 69 point guard is always intriguing and uh yeah man I think he gets drafted i like the size i like the passing the one concern that I’ve had teams ask me was that was he tough enough They just want to know is he tough enough He’s a really nice guy but they want to know is there a little bit more you know grit to him and know he played at you know a mid major so there may be some concerns like has he done it enough against bigger schools which you know I mean that doesn’t always mean anything there’s been Dame Lillard came from a mid major but I like Kobe i like what he brings to the table to me I don’t know if a team is going to play him at the point but maybe he could be like Delano Banton who’s playing for the Blazers you know a big toolsy wing that can handle the ball and that when he’s given opportunity he plays well where did Delano started Toronto i’ve liked him wherever he started I forgot his first team but but he’s always been a guy that’s been on my radar i can’t understand why he hasn’t gotten the minutes and and really blown up a little bit more than he has but but I like guys like that i mean 68 69 can handle can shoot a little bit can can do different things um but you’re talking about playing point guard with Kobe Sanders uh San James I understand at the Chicago pre-draft they put him at point guard and he actually acquitted himself pretty well so I mean that’s another kind of feather in his cap that ability to handle the playmake how much is how much how important is versatility Or or should you be a specialist you know or does your versatility have to be off the chart type versatility to be a impactful second rounder where the Bucks are at 47 That’s a good question because I think sometimes it depends on the team like if you remember Boris Dia remember he was supposed to be like this big toolsy point guard and he didn’t play much in Atlanta he goes to Phoenix and they play him at the five when Omari was out and then all of a sudden like the the guard skill showed so it was just the right fit goes to San Antonio the right fit um Scion is a guy that I like the versatility i mean I think here’s an example for you remember James Johnson Sure james was what the 16th pick Wake Forest no Wake Forest yeah yeah yeah he he struggled finding his role with Chicago that drafted him and I remember I was I was working in the G-League at that time and he was playing for the Rio Grand Valley Vipers which is the Rockets G-League team and then I remember they played him at every position they played him at the one they played him at the five and then you saw like all right this is why he was so highly touted out of Wake Forest and then once he got to Houston he got another chance then he got to Miami and and you know he had some good years there and he’s still collecting checks so it just took the right fit and the right team to understand what what he does and to value him and and and I think could be like James Johnson in a sense like he’s big he’s strong he can handle the ball he shoots it better than James did when he first entered the league but you know maybe he could be like best case scenario Miami Heat James Johnson without being able to kick the rim you know I’ve heard all those stories that James Johnson can like Oh yeah or the rim yeah he’s the Now he’s he’s he’s like the enforcer he’s like the tough guy well that that was one of was one of the smartest moves that the Patriots made though cuz they brought him on the Bucks after the Bobby Poris but he broke the nose of uh the Isaiah Jackson I I think it was broke his nose that was a Giannis ballgate game and all that stuff that was happening they signed him a couple of days after that and in my mind I was like “Okay enough enough of all the shenanigans from the we we gonna see now who the real tough guys are because you got a got a got a got a what an MMA 16-0 record dude on the roster for the for the Patriots.” So that was a that was a great move man okay now you look you you also said something else that I loved and I had to do some research on it i didn’t really do the research we had Dylan Carter our producer do the research but you talked about the last 35 years 1990 first three picks in the NBA draft do you know how many of of those first three picks at NBA drafts have been all stars any point throughout their career Yeah it’s four well four we came We came up with four okay 2016 Ben Simmons Brandon Ingram Jayden Brown 99 Elton Brand Steu Francis Baron 94 Big Dog Jason Grant Hill 92 Shaq Allonzo and Christian Leighton it may have been that’s that’s what we but man I mean when you think about that this thing is such a crapshoot you know I mean I don’t know in terms of evaluation is there is there an edge what edge one one common denominator that you’re looking for Is it is it the backstory Is it is it a combination of things Is it toughness Is it is it coaching Is it the the the the pedigree high school who you played for college who you played for Any of that factor in to to to to some of these guys that are on the margins right now You you can’t overthink it sports is the only profession where you you pay like a 18 and 19 year old millions of dollars or or guys are at their financial peak like in any other profession in the world outside of sports and entertainment you get your millions when you have put in years and yeah sports is like you’re you’re really gambling like all right am I going to give this 19year-old kid $12 million guaranteed and and I’m expecting him to be a professional and and and not like take his foot off the gas I mean like to me there’s guys that their goal was to make it to the NBA and if that was their goal just to make it to the NBA and once they’ve made it like you know maybe they take their foot off the gas i I have a friend of mine he was a lottery pick and he’s considered a bust and he told me he lost his confidence and once he lost his confidence it was hard for him to to get it back and so you can’t it’s hard to predict if you’re going to lose your confidence it’s just so many different factors why guys stick and why they they don’t maximize their potential i’m a believer that if you don’t if you’re a lottery pick and you don’t like live up to the expectations it’s not talent it could be injuries could be you know like it it was your first time dealing with basketball adversity we talked about that a little earlier like it was your first time not being featured or you know you just had too many obligations with the family and like you didn’t know how to handle it because after all you are a teenager and you’re you know you’re coming into all this money and all the pressure so I think those are some of the factors and I mean even like with and I don’t mean to like harp on but Ben Simmons I used to say all the time I think Ben Simmons and Giannis have the same god-given talent it’s just the difference is between the ears like Giannis came from nothing like I mean that comment Stephen A smith man I thought was ridiculous about him under Yeah come on bro i I read Giannis’s book and I I lived in Athens briefly so I I know where he came from and maybe that drive I mean I don’t think anybody really has Giannis’s drive but that type of drive and and he said he acts as if like this could all be gone tomorrow it’s hard to like not succeed when you you know you play like like you’re broke so I think some of that is just all all factors like who wants it and and you know injuries obviously but it’s a crapshoot speaking of which oh and Chris I want you to chime in on this too maybe first play like you’re broke so NIL money you’re making a million 800,000 500,000 three or four if you’re three or four million if you’re really good does that do you think it’d be more you’d be more complacent with that and and make it a little little softer or does you think the hunger is there to sustain that and even build upon that once you get to the league Chris I mean what you know you know you know some of these guys how does that factor Well for me it like like Raphael has mentioned it’s a case-byase basis so it’s like who is getting the money Is this his first taste of money Is he coming from money And then what does money do for you I mean that’s it and it’s it’s up to the individual like I think today’s kids are wired a little differently mj um guys how so How so How so Just think I think that they they grow up understanding how to get to the bag like so they have opportunities to get to the bag their entire life way more frequently than any of us that grew up that’s not part of this generation so you can be 12 13 years old you can have your own Instagram merch shop right now and you could be making 10,000 a month as a 13-year-old so they have ways to get to the back so their view of money I think is a little different i think they get soon as they get a little taste of money this generation I think that they want to keep doing whatever it is to get that money I would hope but then again athletes are always wired differently you never know who’s going to respond how it’s going to respond man it’s such a tough call i mean it’s really about your support system in my opinion your people around you like when you look at who’s going to stay hungry who’s going to keep inspiring you who’s going to stay on your who’s going to stay in your head who’s willing to tell you the hard truths who’s willing to speak that truth to you hey man you’re not working hard enough hey man you got to get up or who are you going to have people that are going to kind of enable you to do bad uh pick up bad habits or bad routine Yeah NIL is interesting because what’s the difference if if a kid got it as a sophomore in college or he got it in the NBA You’re still 19 you’re still 20 you got the money right I actually think it probably helps kids make more sound decisions and I mean this is a whole different subject but I’ve been doing some research and there’s not a lot of kids from the inner city anymore i think I think I heard you talk about this Rob i heard you talk about this as far as overseas in Turkey being a rich man sport basketball just expand on on some of your research and some of the items that you came up with yeah what do you mean by that So all right i’m 45 years old so when I grew up playing basketball nobody had a trainer you played outside which means the playing field was even whether you were rich or you were poor everybody got their game outside now if you drive by courts in any city you’re not going to see kids playing everybody’s training they have a trainer and trainers I mean basketball’s been monetized trainers cost money so if you want to train three times a week and the person is charging $50 a session that’s $150 a week you know that’s going to add up to what $600 a month yeah yeah that’s not bad and that’s that’s on the low $6,000 67,000 so I just think that that you know like some of the kids from the inner city just don’t have a chance like where can you get better if you’re not playing outside and you don’t have the resources So on on one hand I think that a lot of the kids that are making it now come from families that have resources so they’re not forced to like leave school early because they got to take care of mom because mom like I talked to a parent recently and his son was a second round pick and he was like well you know what my son doesn’t have the pressure of having to buy mom a house he already got a house we’re not we’re not moving i talked to another parent a couple years ago son was a lottery pick he doesn’t have to buy us a house we we got a house yeah so NIL allows you if you’re not ready to probably develop a little longer because you’re not thinking like “All right I got to get mom out the hood man she’s struggling her lights aren’t on and I’m in school and I’m eating sandwiches.” Even though I think some of the guys when they talk about how broke they were in college i I think some of that is serve sandwiches yeah right okay you’re right bro you went to an SEC school you need to tell me you need sandwiches right I think it just sounds good but I do think NIL allows guys to make sounder decisions and and and you know it allows you to say I’m going to stay in school and and get better as opposed to like all right I’m going to risk being the 50th pick because my name is on boards and I know it’s it’s no guarantee it’s not a guaranteed contract so I actually like it because like I said it allows players to take their time to get to the lead what was the conclusion of your when you studied it What so what do you say is less guys from the inner from meager beginnings those numbers are down okay yeah i mean you know when you’re watching the draft if a guy comes from a bad background they’re going to highlight that yeah you know he right his dad was in jail aj AJ Well AJ Johnson had a tough tough upbringing you know lived in motel out of here and came to Taft High School with Derek Taylor and I mean and you know so there there’s still some that kind of but they they will highlight that but you’re not seeing as many people highlighting that even when you watch the draft I mean and I think it’s a good thing i grew up with with my mom and my dad you’re seeing like the mom and the dads at the green room so I do think it is it is a good thing that you know kids have you know um you know that they have sound advice from their parents but I also feel like on the flip side of it because basketball has been so heavily monetized if you don’t have those resources and you’re not like special special right it’s harder for you to to make it but as far as Turkey it was Yeah it was interesting because it was a rich kid sport like every I think Enis Caner his his parents are doctors like the that was very interesting to me how that I play I actually played in uh Turkey for a hot minute um back in city uh um Anchor Anchora okay I’ve been there the capital I lived in Istanbul for a year but I I also I spent a lot of time in Istanbul then I was in another city called Bulgron which is like by the beach it’s like on the water is the most underrated like place in the world easily people don’t people don’t know what time it is people don’t know what time it is hey I I I got a story for another podcast about my experience over there but it was a pop star or something a pop star or something the mad the Madonna of Turkey pop a pop star or something came up bro that’s for another got chas got chased out of Italy by the mafioso or something but listen but listen no so this this conversation guys I wanted to see I wanted to see if this makes any kind of sense so when you Rh when we were talking about the inner city guy that the NBA used to kind of look at Oh yeah the hard upbringing the dog you know he get the glory get all the glory yes yes I like that now who replaces them Now when we look at overseas and you look at some of the the countries your Serbia’s your you know some of these countries that aren’t necessarily have the glitz and the glamour as some of these other European countries now are they replacing sort of this inner city guy as sort of this concept of a dog that came up from a tough upbringing a war torn country Like does that make any sense to you guys No it does it does make sense because you know when people talk about European players a especially if you like understand Europe Europe a kid from Italy is going to be seen different than a kid from Serbia you know a kid from Bosnia they go oh man he’s tough a kid from Italy they can go oh man he’s he’s finesse you know what I mean so there there is a difference I just think it’s a wider pool of candidates for teams to choose from and I I’m a basketball junkie and I remember you guys Remember Street Smiths Every year Street Smiths it was eight guys from New York the Bible the Bible the bestible a bunch of guys from from Chicago eight all-American teams in high school yes yes yeah and now when you look at it it’s like where where the guys from New York and and where guys from Chicago i think where’s Christ the King and where’s Yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I just think the game is different like I was at Nike EBL a few weeks ago and and it’s no knock on Utah but it was like this team from Utah had a better record than the team from Chicago yeah they ballers yeah you know about the Utah prospects yes sir yes sir yeah yeah and so uh and I just like I really want to like really like dive into it because it it’s fascinating to me it’s just different from when I grew up hey quick quick story for you Raphael so I’m coaching AAU Chris’s junior year in high school we got a bunch of inner city kids you talk about inner city we got Krenshaw we got Compton we got Watts we got Westchester we got it all we cannot beat the Utah Rebels this little team Alex Jensen was our center he’s a coach now he’s a coach now yeah yeah yeah but but they had a little couple little guards that never did anything and and I talked to the coaches and they told me that they they identified much like European they identify potentially good players at a young age they put up through plyometrics all this stuff I hadn’t heard of back in the in the mid 90s when we played early 90s when we were playing but I don’t know i I I just digress but but I just you talk about Utah and kind of what they were doing and then you see the results of that now the Europeans are doing the same thing identifying talent early and then making sure that they get all the specialized individual instruction and guess who’s not doing it And to my final point guess who’s not doing it as much United States and we wonder why America is being seen as falling behind as far as like in the talent race now I don’t necessarily agree with that rafie I want to get your opinion this kind of based on this idea that Giannis kind of broached about having the top Europeans play against the top Americans in the All-Star game my question to you do you feel like the American basketball player has fallen behind the European basketball player in terms of development That’s a good question i I’ve I’ve thought about this a lot i’ll say one of the differences and I I remember asking a coach once like what did he see the differences was he says well in Europe basketball is not the main sport so if you have kids that are interested in basketball that’s all you have to work with so you have to develop them and spend time he says in America you have so much talent you have a try out and you know you pick the players from your try out and then in AU basketball let’s say you guys lose your first weekend on the session you cut a couple guys you bring in new guys so you don’t have to like really spend time and develop and then when you look at like just AU basketball and I’m not one of these people that bashes AU basketball i absolutely don’t like when people talk about it because there’s a lot of good in travel basketball you’re getting kids out of their neighborhood they’re meeting different people like think about how many kids don’t even know how to like pack a suitcase or or pack a toothbrush or I think AU basketball teaches you that outside of just the basketball stuff so with that being said the teams change all the time you don’t really have to develop and then they got the rules where you can play with a team long as the states touch each other so you know I live in Dallas and the Dallas team could have a kid from Oklahoma and then like they’ll get strategic like like a team from Memphis will put their team in West Memphis Arkansas because Arkansas touches Texas and then you can go get kids from Houston to play on the Memphis team and so you don’t have to like develop you’re trying to you’re just trying to win you’re trying to win because if you win you get to keep your Nike contract or your Adidas contract and and you get to stay on the circuit and you just like all right I’m just gonna keep getting the best player and the best player and in Europe they don’t have a big pool to choose from because you got to think their countries are like our states so all you have to do is develop and develop and and one of the things that and I can I can be long-winded about this i went to Spain 2023 and I went to like a bunch of different practices and I saw them doing like the threeon two two-on-one drills and the passing drills and they were teaching creativity they were teaching underhand scoop passes overhead passes and I remember when I was in ninth grade I was left-hand i wasn’t like a really good basketball player but I was in ninth grade i was all left-hand like all left hand really and I got a steal on the left side of the court and I was in transition and the defender was going to cut me off and I threw a behind the back pass and I hit my teammate in a stride and he made a layup right hand layup and my coach called a timeout yelled at me and I couldn’t think you best Kenny Anderson that was he thought I was kidding and um I was trying to explain to him and I couldn’t explain like that’s the only pass I could throw because by the time I would have I didn’t have a right hand at all and my momentum and I wasn’t trying to be flashy but he thought I was trying to show off and when I went to Spain I thought about like they’re teaching every their their philosophy is the quickest pass i don’t care the angle you don’t need to set your feet and throw a two-hand chest pass if it’s one hand and if it’s underhand and when you think about like Spanish players they all have a little flare to them in passing like Rubio overhead because all the wrong yeah everything they’re teaching is the fastest pass the fastest pass the fastest pass so I thought that philosophy was different because I don’t think we teach that and then everybody had to work on passing like they don’t have lob threats there so if you’re big you got to catch the ball you got to be able to like make find a cutter in the high post so I think because they don’t have as much natural talent there they have to I mean they have to really really hone in on fundamentals right Okay so let’s let’s let’s not going to keep you all day but I want to bring it back to the draft you talked about bigs and and mobility you mentioned a guy that I had to I had to go and look at just to see what was going on hansen Yang yes hansen Yang and he was impressive 672 250 uh is is where is he at right now in terms of of of personnel opinions about him and how he’s going to translate You mentioned Zack uh the Edy the big the big fella from from where Purdue or wherever but but where where’s Hansen Yang at in terms of uh people’s minds I like him i don’t think Brooklyn should leave the draft without him they have four first round picks so when you have four first round picks and like 26 and 27 you can swing for the fences and so he’s a guy that I first saw him probably two years ago at a FIFA U8 tournament and he’s he’s tough he’s physical he’s not a gentle giant and I’ve I’ve lived in China and I know like sometimes if you’re big in China it’s it’s cultural to be gentle you know what I mean Like it’s it’s cultural you’re not supposed to impose your will on smaller people that’s just part of their their culture he’s not like that he’s physical i mean he’s throwing his shoulders but he’s real skilled he reminds me of a old school throwback big with you know counter moves he’s got little Kevin McKel shoulder fakes and up and unders but he’s a really good passer like that might be his best asset is his passing so I like him i just think the the adjustment for him is the speed of the game and and just you know obviously on top of like the cultural differences but I think he can play i I really do think that he’s an NBA player rock where can the people subscribe cuz I’m I subscribe to your NBA big board substack thank you what is Where can people And then your brother James you guys you guys you guys do something together right You guys are doing all this together right Yeah we have a podcast NBA Big Board okay and we can find that on YouTube and Yep yep just type in NBA Big Board whether it’s the newsletter or the podcast okay okay let me put a period on this so that team I was coaching with Chris and Utah Rebels we did beat them in the semifinals of May Fischer Easter Classic and we me and my other co- coach Ed Waters who coaches Cruncher High now Maxine Waters’s son but we told our guys we’ve lost to these Utah Rebels eight times in a row Raphael this is our championship and we went out and beat them and then we lost in the championship to a team with Darnell McCulla and Tmaine Folks and these other guys a bunch of ringers and all that and on the ride home from uh Vegas all these guys were saying was “Well we won our championship you said the semiis was our championship and so we won the champion.” It was it was you know AU basketball the the bonding that goes on with AU basketball man it was just it was a great trip great trip man but look man we appreciate you stopping by NBA board this guy here really does a great job breaking down everything NBA raphael Barlo and his brother James check them out thank you man for coming by here District and please please join us again let’s do it again man love to have you on anytime anytime this could have went on for three hours i would have been fine does that socks hat have anything to do with the pope I’m just curious maybe no it doesn’t it doesn’t it doesn’t have anything to do with the LA uh you know the roller i just I don’t want to go there that’s Chris’s neighborhood anyway all right man appreciate you thank you man thank you all right have a good one all right Raphael all right here District Captain of this vessel Marcus Johnson along with my son Chris Johnson i want to thank Raphael Barlo owner and director of scouting NBA big board man I love that conversation we had with Raphael Chris i mean just uh not only the draft draft stuff with the you know that’s big right now but also just his perspective in terms of development and the European game and all that stuff man he has some some great takes yeah he’s been around for a while i’ve been following I mean I for about the last 10 years one of the most insightful just kind of different basketball scouting minds that isn’t just you know normal like everybody else he kind of brings a different perspective i love it yeah and you know who else is like that without diverging too diverting too far from from what we’re talking about but uh I was Iman Shumpert i was listening to him and and Wendy like everything he say like I’m used to having those type of basketball conversations about NBA so it didn’t really strike me as anything that was like really like savantish oh Hallebertton goes side to side i mean like you guys like what are you guys not used to You’re used to the drama game or something yeah well yeah and that’s that’s the thing it was just it was just good basketball just good basketball strategy pre- switching and and all you know just a lot of good basketball strategy conversation that I thought was uh right right on the money so I mean I just Yeah I like listening to him um but right now we want to tell you that you can join us on the fantastic voyage by liking this episode and leaving us a comment on the Bucks official YouTube channel yep you can subscribe to Hear District on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and also follow Bucks Plus Audio on Twitter and I ran into a couple of young ladies that uh follow follow us and and love our show i was I was out at the Hampton Hills Country Club aka Lincoln Park Golf Club golf Golf Course Hampton Hills on Hampton Avenue and uh and and so and so these ladies let me go in front of them they were a forsome and so I was by myself or was I with Shiloh Were there turkeys Were there turkeys I was by myself bunch of turkeys out there the whole you know how Hampton Hills Country Club is a bunch of turkeys running around i just missed a couple uh unfortunately I could have had dinner for that night but anyway but but two ladies Sally LaRosa and Patty Carter sally and Patty sally and Patty came up to me and said “We love your show.” Now when she said that Chris you thought I thought what Well you see said “Well you know your dad Father’s Day just passed by banana the banana in the tailpipe.” No no sometimes you know they’re talking about Josiah and and and Gilbert Arenas and that you know that show and and you know when Oh I love you i love I love you i loved your son’s podcast and and stormly talking about Josiah but she came to me and said “I love your podcast.” And she said and that reference to Hampton Hills Country Club just gets us cracking up every time so we want to give a special shout out to Sally Sally and Patty Sally Rosa and Patty Connor for being big fans of the show now speaking of Father’s Day I don’t know if you’re a big fan of Gilly the King but I caught him this is the king or the kid the kid the kid the kid gilly the kid okay gilly the kid so I caught the kid uh talking about Father’s Day and you’d have to go and find that clip and all that we not going to pay to to to run it on our show but he was talking about it i was coming off a airplane flight and the pilot came on and he’s like “I want to say congratulations to all the fathers.” And nobody on that mofo clapped nobody said nothing i was on a similar flight Mother’s Day he said “I want to give a shout out to all the mothers and everybody stood up and appla Nobody cares about Father’s Day we get a we get some some funky cologne we get a tie we don’t even wear suits.” He just went on this whole rant man about Father’s Day first of all how was your Father’s Day Did you have a good Father’s Day What’d you do on Father’s Day I I mean it was cool i talked I didn’t go nowhere i didn’t do nothing um I didn’t not because I couldn’t but I didn’t feel like it yeah okay um Will wanted to take me to lunch but I was like he took me out the weekend before right right so I was so I was kind of like you know Okay last weekend is our father’s day lunch yeah yeah and it mean the same I mean so so I had Shila we flew to Milwaukee from Los Angeles uh on Saturday yeah on Saturday before Father’s Day Sunday we worked out worked out twice uh really hard and then we went to a brunch at my favorite brunch spot here in Milwaukee Sam’s Jazz Cafe is that the spot you took me with the over on the north side It’s out yeah yeah yeah it’s It’s close to Hampton Hills Country Club as a matter of fact on the north side sam’s Jazz Cafe but we got there mr b let us in we got there the website said 2:30 it closed we got there at 1:40 and he saw me at the door like “Yeah I knew you was here with your with your daughter for Father’s Day.” But I had the wings and the grits and the biscuits and all that and Shiloh had the wings and the and the waffles the wings go off the hook and and the last point about Father’s Day and this happened this year for the first time uh for me I got all these greetings and it’s this whole thing about the the cool Black Father’s Day greetings now that just kind of kind of kind of kind of caught me by surprise i I mean just a plethora of cool Black Father’s Day greetings the you know I don’t know if we got something we can we can flash on the screen here and show just kind of the the roster of cool black Father’s Day greetings man I I I really think that those Father’s Day greetings that you receive are really indicative of your age group your demographic and like how you grew like you know the era you grew up in because I didn’t get not one Father’s Day greeting like that at all and I and I never got them before i mean this is this is a first i mean it’s almost like this year I don’t know they just came out of nowhere but but I want to talk about the Gilly thing because I I mean I find it interesting that you know it’s and this isn’t it’s it’s so when you talk about when Gilly is in black culture right A lot of times a lot of black people grew up with just mama in the house mama single mom single mom single single mom household sure so what you so you’ll get in in in in our community you get a lot of people on Father’s Day talking about shouting out mothers okay it’s like a blatant mom the moms you know because daddy wasn’t there and so a lot I think the sentiment that’s kind of carried over into permeated to popular American culture is that same sentiment it’s like it’s almost like screw dad he’ll get over it he’s a man i don’t really got to do nothing for him but if I miss mom on Mother’s Day I’ll never hear the end of it yeah yeah dad will let it go dad is cool so I think that’s the the difference in Father’s Day and Mother’s Day adds are a lot cool well and some of my favorite some of my favorite Father’s Day gifts are not the tithes and the cologn but it’s those little collages that that you all make for me as kids when you’re in first grade i found one from Shiloh you know little tie that opens up on the on the cardboard josh uh my my my 36 year old son just turned 36 on the 16th of this month i found one that he made me when he was in the second or third grade just stashed away someplace yeah I don’t throw them away i keep all that stuff so those those little corny Father’s Day collages so where’s the ones I made you Well I mean that was that was like that was like 50 years ago if you said you don’t throw them away that means forever that doesn’t mean a time i’ve I’ve I’ve moved 10 times since then i’ve been in this same house like 25 years so I got all that stuff kind of centrally located it’s probably it’s probably in the storage milwaukee San Francisco we be Italy we’ve been all over the place man so So what it is man it is what it is all right man listen man great great show uh appreciate everything that you do for the Here District and we appreciate y’all appreciate y’all out there for checking us out and man um we’ll see you next week here District this has been a Bucks Plus audio production
Rafael Barlowe of NBA Big Board joins Kris & Marques Johnson to preview the 2025 NBA Draft & the Milwaukee Bucks’ many options with the 47th pick. But first, they look back at Rafael’s extensive pre-draft scouting of Tyler Smith & Ryan Rollins, discussing what the young duo can accomplish in the NBA. They also dive into some potential second-round & undrafted targets for Milwaukee, how Giannis Antetokounmpo’s mental approach set him apart from elite prospects, the advantages of being an underdog, how NIL is helping or hurting the draft, global scouting, prospect demographics, youth basketball & more draft insights. MJ & Kris round out the episode by showing love to some Hear District fans & reflecting on the intricacies of Black Father’s Day through some greetings MJ received for the holiday.
0:00 – Intro
3:02 – Scouting Ryan Rollins
6:57 – Underdog Advantages
12:39 – Scouting Tyler Smith
14:30 – Bucks’ Draft Possibilities
18:03 – 2nd Round Prospects
29:55 – NBA Draft Philosophies
36:15 – State of NIL & Youth Hoops
45:55 – Global Hoops Development
53:27 – Fan Love & Black Father’s Day
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1 comment
Yang is easy pick.7'3 Rocco could play