Ryan Clark Talks Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers & Shares Bill Belichick Stories

Ryan Clark Talks Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers & Shares Bill Belichick Stories

[Music] There we go. Did you know this about Chad? That Chad was a stripper in community college. A male stripper. Shut up, man. That was not a stripper, bro. You know what he said his name was? His stage name? What? Twix.Huh? Oh, he is, bro. Here’s the thing, though. He does everything. He ball searches. He rushes. He plays the pass. Like it is a different level of linebacker play when you watch him than when you watch anybody else. James Harrison might have had a Tik Tok, Brian weightlifting, but he might have had social media. Hey, he might have been in the middle of the uh logo with Guju. No, I don’t think so, dude. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast presented by Bet MGM. If you haven’t signed up for Bet MGM yet, use bonus code greenlight and you’ll get up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with Bet MGM. Here’s how it works. Download the Bet MGM app and sign up using bonus code green light. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. If that bet loses, you will receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets. Just make sure you use bonus code greenlight when you sign up. [Music] Welcome to the show. Just wrapped 90 Minutes with the great Ryan Clark. Uh, Steelers fans, if you’re if you’re here, um, you know Ryan Clark. NFL fans, if you’re here, you know Ryan Clark. TV watchers, if you’re here, you know Ryan Clark. Um, [ __ ] I don’t even watch TV and I see I feel like I see Ryan Clark on my TV all the time. But that’s my buddy, man. Me and Ryan got a chance to work with each other and inside the NFL. Had a great time. That was a desk populated by Ryan, myself, Chad Oinko, and I don’t know if you’ve heard of him, Bill Bich. We’ll share stories about that whole deal. We’ll talk about the pivot. He’s built a hell of an empire there with Channon Crowder and uh Freddy T, Fred Taylor. Um, alltime great running back, alltime great person, too. They got a good group over there. Fair shout out to Alicia, the whole gang. Um, listen, slow news day, so it’s a good time to call up a friend and just BS a bunch, which is what we mostly did, but we do get down to some some NFL with the Steelers and and a couple games we we’re going to play involving um involving player names and adjectives. So, hang in there for that. Hey. Um, this thing I love about the off seasonason is, you know, on a day like that, like today, I can do a 90-minute pod with a buddy and a lot of it with just shooting the [ __ ] and you can’t say, “Hey, you should have talked about that.” Because there’s nothing to talk about. Um, there is one thing that I I regret having to talk about. Um, not the person because I love talking about this person, but but what they’re dealing with. Brian Braymond, former teammate of mine. He’s battling cancer right now. Um 2017 Eagles team. He was a special teams ace. Just um just a just a beauty, dude. This guy was uh he was a great teammate and um and a hell of a guy. He still is. I know he’s fighting his ass off. Um haven’t talked to him in a couple years, but but this kind of This kind of popped popped into my um somebody had sent me a text about it and this this this shows you how far how far you can drift from the team you were on, right? like we keep in touch a lot and that sort of thing, but you know the B guys you hadn’t heard from in a couple years and and then in a situation like this, you hear about him and and you hear something terrible like, “Hey, your old teammates’s got cancer.” And um I’ll tell you what, cancer picked the wrong guy to [ __ ] with. Uh Brian Braymond is a bad boy. He was, like I said, special teams guy. 6’4, hair down his back, you know, look looked like um one of these biker guys, man. In fact, I think he had a motorcycle, but Brian Braymond was a great teammate and uh and a badass. And uh and I don’t know if he listens to the podcast, and again, I haven’t talked to Brian in a long time. I haven’t really seen Brian since, you know, like I said, you you win a championship with a group of guys and and you go your separate ways. You might get the ring ceremony, you might get the parade, but a lot of those guys I haven’t seen since the parade or since the ring ceremony and and that’s just the it reinforces how lucky you are to be in a locker room with people when you’re in the locker room with them because once that team breaks up, you know, there’s no there’s no team anymore, but we can still be teammates for each other. And um I hope that people listening, Philly fans and that sort of thing will click the link in the show description. Um it’s the GoFundMe for his cancer treatment. Brian was the guy who delivered the speech in the at the Super Bowl in Minneapolis before the before the kickoff. The the last guy that gave a speech, Braymond. Um, and I can’t share the speech verbatim because it was a little bit PG-13 and north of there, but anybody who was in that locker room remembers that speech. He was hell on wheels running on the field on kickoff. He would do it all. Just a a great locker room dude, great special teams player and a great teammate and and a and a badass dude. I hope um Brian knows how many guys are talking about him or reaching out, you know, asking about we’re texting each other, hey, have you heard anything about Brian? And that’s how I came about this GoFundMe. So, if you’re an Eagles fan, um if you’re a football fan, check this out. Um listen, there’s a lot of people in this country who shouldn’t shouldn’t have to pay so much for medical coverage. And um just goes to show that, you know, you could play in the NFL and still still need help. Um, love you, Bri, if if you do hear this, alltime teammate. One of the guys I ate breakfast with after the Super Bowl. I’ve just little memories like that where you’re like, you know, you you it’s such a blur playing in that game, but you remember little things like who you sat next to on the bus on the way over, you know, who might been been your seatmate on the plane home. And you know, as the smoke cleared the next morning, we’re all just trying to get some breakfast in down in the cafeteria. I remember I sat with Brian Braymond and two other guys. And um you know, it’s just crazy to think it’s crazy to think that somebody that you spent so much time with, who was such a just a pillar of health and um just seemed in indestructible would be battling something like this. But again, that cancer’s got a battle on its hands, too. So, Braymond, if you’re out there, love you, dog. Um, and I know everybody’s asking about you. Kick this thing’s ass. Um, go get it done, champ. Uh, wanted to shout out Brian Braymond. Former Houston Texan, former Eagle, just a fearless dude. So, he’s he’s uh I’m sure he’s battling his ass off. Um, without further ado, here’s Ryan Clark. Enjoy this. There we go. There we go. We didn’t kidnap him. He’s here. He’s finally here. I got Hey, Ry, is this your first time on the Greenlight podcast? Yeah. It’s crazy, right? Are you [ __ ] kidding me? First time, bro. See, I walked you right into that cuz now I got to come on your big ass podcast since you I’m inviting myself on the pivot at some point. Well, first off, you you’ve been invited and you you you try to play like the I’m not big enough role. No, see, no, but I’m going to do something that’s going to make me really famous in the next 6 months. And and when I do, uh I’m coming on the pivot. I don’t know what it’s going to be, but I got a strategy. Okay. So, you do something big in the next six months? Like what? I don’t know. I can’t say. But something big might happen, you know? You never know. I might get my big break and come on the pivot. But I’m hyped to see you, dude. I I the we go from seeing each other every week to to this, which is [ __ ] You know what though? It’s like real football. It’s like off seasonason. Yeah, it is. You know what I’m saying? We need to we need to work hard to make sure we can see each other real fast. This is Ryan’s second time that he’s gracing the Greenlight podcast. Yeah, there was another time. That’s what I’m saying. What was the first time? It’s been like three, four years, dude. First time was September 4th, 2020. It was the AFC North preview show for that the AFC. I was at my house. Yeah. You know what? It’s almost like me and Ryan hit people in the head for a living. No, you know what it is though, bro. We do so much though. All right. Into football. And I’m doing you a favor because I brought the quote. This is your latest news making quote. At the end of the season, and I only want to ask you about one of these people. At the end of the season, we’re going to finally realize that both Aaron Rogers and Mike Tommen have underachieved in their careers. Tommen, I see your point. I certainly do. But I just wonder like the list of guys with two Super Bowls, if he’d have won the second one with you, would you have said yes? Different different conversation. Yeah. If he if if he if if he wins the second one. It’s It’s also too, you know, how you say Aaron has got talent. Yeah. I think Coach Tomlin does. He’s got God talent. It’s Chris, man. this dude can lay something out that is so complex and make it so simple. And it was you never you never go into a game or I never left the game and said that team beat us in a way that coach Tomlin didn’t tell us was possible. Got it. Right. Or we did everything he said would lead to a win, but we still lost. Right. like like those things didn’t happen and the motivation was always there. And the other thing that to me is surprising is you know I mentioned Antonio Brown earlier bro he had he has this incredible ability to allow you to be yourself within the team bro. Antonio and this is just honest is not he was not a good teammate. Yeah. Right. but he worked his butt off individually. Coach Tomlin was able to say, “Okay, I’m going to box that and allow that to affect the team, but I won’t let the negativity to affect the team on the field.” Right? And so, I just expected that when we walked off the field, we were the last two people to walk off of the field after the Super Bowl in 2010, 2011. If you would have just told me he’d never get back to another one by this point, I’d have thought you were out of your mind. And I also said that like he still has it. I just think he needs his Andy Reed run somewhere. Yeah. And that was going to be part two. I I’m not framing it like you you’re saying he’s because I’ve heard you talk about him at length and how much you love Mike and who doesn’t love Mike. I mean like he’s universally respected. Right. Right. But I look back at it more as just like with curiosity as like an NFL historian to say what went wrong from a programmatic standpoint and the things that I could see that I could say, “Hey, this is fair. He certainly can be too conservative, right?” Yes. Like he can be I mean he’s Rush Limbbo sometimes. Okay. You know what I’m saying? All right. So there so but but also I think one of the biggest def and you tell me you’re the Steelers expert because you played here and I’m just but not replacing Bruce Arens and not replacing Dick Leau. Yes, those two things seem to linger for me a while because I can stomach Ben the first ring he got against Seahawks supported by an incredible team. The second one, that’s all him. The the third one would have been nice to have, but to but for him to I don’t think of Ben as a guy who’s like a two, three Super Bowl guy. Like I think he’s he’s a Super Bowl winning quarterback and he’s probably a Hall of Famer at some point. Is he a Hall of He’s a Hall of Famer, right? He’s But I don’t think of him as somebody who’s like just because Ben’s there, you’re going to have a dynasty. Does that make sense? Like there has to be programmatic things that come together. Yeah, that I think it has to be programmatic things to come together, but you have to remember what Ben was with Levian and Antonio and Maris Pouncy as his center. Like I want to say Ben led the league in passing, right, at at one point with over 5,000 yards. And so Ben, he became that in my opinion. And what he always was was even cuz you know, we had the number one defense in the league in ‘ 08 and 2010. into the Super. That’s right. But he became so clutch though. Yeah. Right. Like you look at that last drive against Arizona. We needed that. You think about the Antonio Brown big- time throw. I think divisional round in 2010. Like you needed that play. Like he always did that. And so you expected that to continue. I do believe and I and I can be honest. I never really thought about replacing Bruce Arens in Dick Leau. And what I’ll say about that is those actually weren’t his hires per se, right? We had Ken Wizenh Hunt. We moved to Bruce Arens who was on the staff. Obviously, Dick Leau was a holdover from You inherited Dick Leau from from Coach Cow, you know, and honestly, picking your coordinators is a big deal. That’s a big especially right especially when you don’t call plays cuz he cuz he doesn’t call defense that’s it for the team and so yeah no like you you I think if I if there is a criticism of him the conser conservativism is is a is a part of it right I think there there has been some late game mismanagement you know at times but yes he hasn’t found two guys on each side of the ball that has learned to excel in the most important moment moments. And the other thing I’d point to is not having a bin replacement while you still had obviously and and at that point now we’re talking about it’s it’s crept up on us but it’s like it’s been half a decade you know and it’s been a decade since you win a playoff game and and this to me is the area where I think he’s underachieved in my opinion because like hey when you’re in the AFC in the 2010s I mean [ __ ] you lived it. I was watching a lot of it but like that’s that ain’t easy. you come out of it with one ring as a head coach and you know to beat Curt Warner and the whole thing and you know down there in a shootout like that’s great and everything but then to not be able to replace Ben that’s where I think and I think he’s also a victim a little bit of his high floor. Yes. You never get bad if you’re always decent. Yep, bro. And and so people got mad at me, right? So the whole thing with Aaron when we got Aaron, I think Aaron’s going to play well. Like I actually do. And I think the And I think And I think the team’s going to be good. Like 10 win team. And guess what? And guess what? Next year, you’re still looking for a quarterback. Purgatory. Like, and and you’ve been there every year, right? Cuz think about it. We weren’t saying, “Hey, get a quarterback. Get a quarterback. Get a quarterback.” But they still was getting a quarterback at 21. Yeah. Right. You still weren’t drafting in the top 10, not even the top 15. Yeah. Top 12 to get a guy. And in my opinion, they’re going to end up there again this year, you know, and everybody’s so high on this quarterback clash, but you never know. You don’t know. You don’t know. You don’t know. And they got a ton of picks coming up. And I’m I’m like you. I I actually have grown to have a little respect for the Steelers outlook, you know, as this thing’s gone on. Um, but I don’t think they’re running away with it in the AFC. They’re just going to be they’re just going to be a tough out in my opinion. and and that takes a lot to be a tough out in the NFL. But when you’re when you’re a tough out but you’re not building towards something in the future like you’re just selling tickets being honest like and if I were on the Steelers I would want them to go sign Rogers. I don’t want to sit for a year and watch I don’t want to be bad. Right. That’s We don’t have that kind of time, but us sitting in this chair. It’s like, God, could you at some point just win four games and [ __ ] Well, hey, I said and so I said it on TV and they got people got mad at me like, “Oh, you hate the Steelers.” I was like, “No, we need to be Hey, we need to be atrocious.” Yeah. You know what I’m saying? Like, they need to be awful. And so, the to me the only answer is this though, Chris. It’s with the picks you have. You sell the form to get the guy next year. Yeah. You have to, right? Yeah. You have to. You you know, you you you don’t you never go into a rebuild, but you say, “Next year, we’re moving up to get the dude.” And you also can’t be like, “Hey, Aaron, design the entire offense and and and and dictate how the programs run.” Because if you’re building something, there’s a ton of young players who are building towards the too. Exactly. So, yeah. And that’s with all due respect to Aaron. I mean, I like I feel how I feel about, you know, some of the antics in the past, but like I have reason to believe that because of Mike T and because of the Steelers, he’s going to kind of walk walk the straight and narrow this year. I hope. No, I think I think I think and and but this is my thing and I told people this when it happened. Mike T can work with anybody, Chris. Anybody like he just Bro, Ben’s not a peach. No, that’s what I heard. I mean, like I enjoyed meeting him. Nice guy to me. Cool. Yeah. He’s But he, you know, and and and it wasn’t that he was just this a-hole that needed everything his way. He just needed to be handled a certain way. Yeah. And Coach Tomlin understood that. He understood how to not put him on the spot. He understood how to not embarrass him. He understood how to have him in a place where he felt good. And so he understands maneuvering around a superstar quarterback. That’s not going to be the problem. The problem is, does this superstar quarterback make you better than the Baltimore Ravens? Does it make you better than the Buffalo Bills? Does it make you better than the Kansas City Chiefs? And I don’t I don’t think it does. And those are the teams you got to beat if you want to be anything in the AFC. My last point on Tomlin, you tell me how this comparison tracks, but I think about Nick Serriani and in the beginning like listen, I had my my gripes about some of the exuberance, some of the like the swagger, some of the like Yeah. But you know who’s got a lot of that is [ __ ] Mike T. And you know who’s and who’s got the you just described him? The thing I just picked up as his superpower is communication and emotional intelligence. And when I talk to the guys in Philly, they always talk about his communication and emotional intelligence and the parallels go further. First two Super Bowls, one and one um and not guys who call plays, they’re walkound coaches. And uh and I think the true test is going to be, as we framed it earlier, can Nick find this bag that he’s got in Fangio or whoever’s calling the offense year to year as guys go and get jobs. Can you stick with the right coordinators and make the right hires? Because that’s the key to the whole thing in my opinion. You know, I think and the other piece of it is too though, you you find a guy in Howie Roseman who just keeps figuring out how to get you there and be competitive. He’s got good groceries. He just he he he understands it. And this and this will make sense to you because you’re so smart, right? It’s he finds this era’s Eagles, guys. Yes. Right. Like like when when you pick a dude, you can go that dude’s an eagle. Yep. Right. Y Pittsburgh went away from that to me for a little bit. When especially toward the end of Ben’s career, I felt like they were trying to capitalize on that and it was let’s go draft for need and this player can fit here. Whereas in one year after James Harrison has a Pro Bowl year, we go draft Lawrence Timmons and Lamar Woodley who both play the same position at play James position. James’ position. I remember that. But they were but they were Steelers and we figured out wait Lawrence Timmons can play off the ball and he’s a downhill thumper and he’s fast and we can use him as the dime, but he was a stealer. And I think that’s what Holly Roseman and the Eagles have done. a little bit better than the Steelers have in late Ben’s career and a little bit after. That’s so interesting that you bring that up. That’s so interesting. I hadn’t thought about it like that. First take. This is a segment I like to call first take. You got your your Sharpie and your piece of paper. Um Yep. Yep. See, this is I should [ __ ] be a producer for ESPN. Here we go. And out of the break, uh, Molly Kum’s gonna give you some index cards and you’re gonna write a name down. Stephen A. Smith is gonna scream at you. Do you like arguing with Stephen A? We don’t even really argue anymore. He kind of like like he’s actually like my dog now. You know what I mean? Dude, yeah. Like I like Stephen A. You know what? Hey, I will say this, man. Like people hate on him, bro. He make 20 million a year. Yeah. If he he don’t care what none of y’all say. If I could, he kind of I could tell he kind of cared about some of the stuff this year with LeBron. He kept coming back to it a little bit. I could tell. And it’s only human. It’s good to know that you could make 20 million a year and and be a human being. I he was incredibly gracious to me. We were down at South by Southwest. He came on the show [ __ ] with us. He’s supremely talented. Um I could listen to for 20 for 20 million a year. We had that good green bull. Oh, what did what did Shannon say? for 50 million. I go to hell. I go to hell. Um, that’s a statement. Yeah. All right, Shan. Um, my favorite thing Stephen A. Smith does, by the way, is that thing where he sits in his studio and just answers mailbag questions. So funny about Pokemon and [ __ ] Like whatever it is, he’s like Charizard here. All right, so here’s the game we got. The guys in the back are going to feed us an adjective. We’re going to have 10 seconds to think of a player name. Write the player name down. Okay. Who first comes to mind when you hear the adjective and then we’ll show the viewers. Okay. Technically sound. Technically sound. Dang. My my pin’s not writing well. Guys, my pin ran out. Uhoh. Wait. I got a guy. I don’t think y’all can y can y’all see that? Watch. See that? It’s Cam Hayward. Yes. Oh, good one. Good one. Trey Hendendrickson. Let me run. Get a pen. And while you while you get a pen, I’ll talk about why the Cincinnati Bengals need to pay Trey Henderson. Well, he had 17 sacks last year. Guys like that don’t grow on trees. And your rookie is currently holding out over contract uh language. Also, last year your defense was [ __ ] putrid. Look at right on time. That’s good TV right there. All right. So, what’s the next adjective? Underrated. Oh, underrated. You can tell that I’m going to be doing a lot of D lineman. This is a good one. Underrated. Wait, guys. This is hard for me. There’s a lot of them. There’s a lot of underrated players in the NFL. There are ultimate team sport. Oh, he’s a dog. Oh, yes, sir. You think Deno is underrated? [ __ ] yeah. Ask somebody on the street if they know who Deno Autry is. True statement. True statement. They’re going to tell you, “I don’t know.” And then ask somebody how many sacks you think he has. They’re going to be like, “Oh, like 34.” Nah, bro. He’s closing in on 60 70. Yeah, he’s a monster. He’s a dog. That’s why he got paid. Okay. Needs to step up. I think this guy is a very chalky answer here. I just want to see I want to see Kyle Pittz step up. That’s a That’s a big one. No, that’s a big one. I want because I’m rooting for him. I like that one because he was hurt. He was hurt and he’s caught the ball from Door Dash Desmond Ritter. And I’m only calling him Door Dash Desmond Ritter because he was in a commercial. Yeah, but like Kyle Pittz, Kyle Pittz is one of those enigmas that like he was he’s so talented or the measurables are so high for the position. Yeah. Right. They’re so high for the position and because of that, I think that their utilization of him puts him in spots where his athleticism can’t excel. They’re trying to use him outside. They just match him with a corner. So now you’re not faster, right? You know, yeah. You look at guys like Trey McBride and I like McBride, Sam Leapora, like they just they utilize them so much differently and I think you see it in in in the the success and statistics of those guys. I’m excited about this year in Atlanta. I’m excited. Raheem, let’s go, bro. Uh and then Ryan had Marvin Harrison Jr. Yes. What what what is it because he’s got what what are his skills and what are his weaknesses at this point in his career because he’s very young. Yeah. Uh last year it was physicality. I thought the physicality of the game uh was a bit much for him, right? But it’s also urgency. Yeah. Like he’s such a like smooth glider mover. Also a laid-back personality much like his pops. Like he needs to step up and become an alpha dog. I think if when you watch him at Ohio State, it was easy for him. It’s not going to be easy at this level, but I think and I’m I’m not using him as the guy that like has to, you know, that hasn’t played well cuz he’s young, but I think he’s a big piece to how well that offense could play this year, dude. If he can get going. Yes. Yeah. James Conor, the run game’s already physical. Trey McBride’s a star. If you can get him going on the outside, that’s huge. No question. I’ll do one. How about scary and as in I’m scared of them or they’re scared? I know we fear no man, but hypothetically, who would we fear if we feared a man? Okay, then we go with uh fear man. And I don’t want to shorten his name, but I did it anyways. He’s upset with me. I’ll show you in a second. Bro, I’m so mad. I changed my mind. You just were going to say Jeffrey Simmons. I was going to go Jeffrey Simmons. Bro, did you shake his hand at any point? So, he sat next to me at a Dallas Mavericks game. He’s a scary human, bro. brother. He shook my hand and my forearm disappeared. Hey. Hey. The two most memorable handshakes I’ve ever gotten. Adrien Peterson who shook my hand like he was trying to break it. Okay. That guy has the [ __ ] handshake of a 70-year-old man. He should have He should have shook old boy hand that two-piec Yeah. I don’t know. I I think um I think in an octagon it would have gotten ugly for the for the other guy. I think I think in a situation like that, there’s just too much going on. You don’t get a real look at how it could have been. Too much space. But that’s Hey, that’s a street fight. Hey, but good for that guy. You know, he’s got a story to tell. He said Adrien Peterson, one of one of the who’s got one of the hardest handshakes of all time. Couldn’t drop. Bro, bro, do you know I just be like, “Hey, man. Y’all know I went toe-to-toe with Adrien Peterson over a poker game.” That’s [ __ ] up. Supposedly they made up, but Jeffrey Simmons, man, don’t don’t get in his That’s a big dude. Scary for sure. Saquon’s scary, too. Universally respected to the point where I don’t even have to write a second name down. Just the first name will do and you’ll know who I’m talking about. All right. Oh, he is, bro. Yep. I I take that, too, though. Bro, Fred, like, find me somebody that has anything to say about his game. You can’t. There’s There’s nothing you can say about it. Yeah. Okay, here’s a better question, and it might be the same answer. If you could if you could experience what it’s like to be a player for 60 minutes in a football game and have their skills and their like instinct and their It’s Fred Warner. Actually, I’ve switched mine to yours. Oh, to Lamar? Yeah, Lamar would be sick. But as a defensive player, just spending my whole career like trying my very best to do certain things and being like, man, you just even as hard as you try, you just can’t do them. You can’t get this guy down. You can’t run fast enough to Here’s the thing, though. He does everything. Everything. He ball searches. He rushes. He plays the pass. Like, it is run down the seam. It is a different level of linebacker play when you watch him than when you watch anybody else in football. The the the the gap between him and the next guy, especially with Rocoan falling off a little bit, is probably bigger than any other position in football. Well, listen, Rocoan I thought was hurt last year at some point. Like we kind of talked about this. He looked a little like and then and Milano was one of my favorites. He he’s he’s been hurt. Um, Fred just he’s Yeah, he’s doing this. That’s a great point. It’s different, bro. Yeah. Last one, Cowboy. What you got? Freak show. Freak show. This should be easy. Then you ready? Um, there’s so many, dude. But the rule is first person comes to mind. Ready? All right, I’m ready. Yeah, I didn’t want to do that one. So, I went I went hipster pick. Keon White I think, bro. I was just up at uh Sack Summit. Met Keon White. Guy really like played in New England. That guy’s a freak show. He’s freak show alert. Um I have a question though cuz you I heard you talk about it on uh on one of the clips I saw. I got to see Max work this week when I was out there week. the field we used. He was using it to work um before we got there. He had his shirt off. He works his butt off. When I see Max, I don’t get the same feeling I get when I see Miles Garrick. No, but no. Yeah. And you know, and then you turn on the film though and he’s absolutely dominating. Is it is it just the technique and is it the relentless cardio? Like what is it that makes him such an impact player from a guy who wasn’t drafted with that in mind? Well, I just asked him this on his show cuz when I went out there, I did his show and I said, “How the [ __ ] I I said to his coach, I’m watching him do drills and I’m like, how did 32 teams pass on him for four rounds? Not just I said Mike Mock’s not off the [ __ ] hook because he should have took him in the first round. I think a lot of it had to do with his drinking and the things that he was up off the field which he coped to obviously profusely. Yes. But there’s a freak show there. It’s just not packaged the way that you know Miles Garrett walks on the field and you’re like, “Holy shit.” Like that’s the the guy’s got muscles. It’s like Hunter down in um in in Houston. Yes. Look at his arm. You’re just like like Dan the Neil Hunter is made out of cement. Yeah, he’s made he’s Yeah, he’s Dude, my Max is he looks a little less muscular, right? Like he he’s a little bit more of like a long arm guy to me. He’s Jared Allen sped up. I’m not saying he’s better than Jared Allen because Jared Allen’s one of the best pass rushers of all time, one of the best technicians of all time. But Max is so quick, bendy, and long. Usually when you get a lengthy guy, you get a guy who’s a little bit a little bit more stiff sometimes. Yeah. You know, you’re not to this isn’t shade because I like the player. Um he was just in uh like a like Dorance Armstrong. I feel like he’s like he’s a he’s a longer cut guy or the guy who’s a good player or the guy or the guy um who was in New Orleans and then went to Detroit um the defensive end there. I’m just it at this point in the summer. I forget people’s names. Davenport. Marcus Davenport. Yes. You hear about long classic left ends, the guys that are like they’re they’re [ __ ] cavers and they’re going to [ __ ] up tight ends and they’re going to long arm. Max’s got that length, but he also has that twitch, bro. He has that bend and that twitch and when you put it all together you get this like this Jared Allen kind of thing but but in the run game he has such a great understanding of staying on his track. Yeah. And I think he has rare he has really rare spatial awareness. Like you know how some guys are really good tacklers and it’s not necessarily a want to thing. Like I missed a billion tackles, dude. Just running in there [ __ ] like a mad dog in a meat house, dude. Just trying to like But you were scared, though. No, you’re not worried about the You’re not worried about the contact. You I like the contact, but but you you’re just like, I don’t know how to get this guy down like or you get in the back field and I would disrupt a play and somebody else would make the play. Max is going to make that play. Match makes the play. He’s one of those guys that just he sees something flash once he’s through and he’s going to knock it down. He’s so disruptive in the run game. And I said to him, I said, “Bro, I don’t think you realize when Von’s up there talking and people are like, “Oh, it’s Von Miller. You’re like Von Miller, too. You’re just package different. Like, you’re a free show, too, bro. Like, you’re not going to go you.” He does a ghost rush. You know how many guys can actually ghost rush? like just dip under somebody’s armpit and he’s six. You know when I realized how athletic he was and this can probably be stupid was when I saw him play basketball. I was like I was like, “Oh, this makes total sense.” Yeah. Like so fluid, right? So quick twitch, gets off the ground fast. I was like, “This makes total sense to me now.” You know what I mean? But in watching him play initially, I was like, man, like I was looking at his body like, damn, he’s not like he’s he’s able to go speed to power, but he he don’t look strong, right? Like he’s able to he’s able to bend this corner, but he doesn’t look that fast. And then as you watch it happen over and over again, you like, “This is not a damn mistake.” No, it’s not a mistake. I watched him work the bags. I watched these guys work the bags. Another final note, remember the guy that got he got made fun of because he wasn’t very good at the bags? Um, yes, kid from Arkansas. Yeah, I met him and he was at the Sack Summit and he looked great on the bags, Ry and bro, we were up at the cigar bar afterwards and I’m this like drunker drunk old 40-year-old guy. But I’m like, hey, brother. I’m like, man, I’m I’m really happy for you, man, cuz that was some [ __ ] up [ __ ] that happened to you a couple years ago. I was like, bro, I was like, you did look [ __ ] up on those bags, but you look incredible now, dude. And he was he was gassed to hear that, dude. Hey, you were terrible when I saw that video. I was like, so much better. I was like, I had no idea you had a chance to be an NFL player, bro. Like, you come a long way. And I think he’s going to help in Buffalo. But that whole thing was really cool, man. Summer was cool. I think the DB should do something like that, man. We’re we’re trying, man. Like, a lot of guys have talked to me. Uh, kind of nailing those guys down is difficult. Yeah. Uh, but, you know, the big thing about that is it’s like it’s so many of them. Mhm. You know, so we got to get some of the top tier guys to buy in and maybe we can get it done. Hell yeah. I just don’t I don’t see lockdown corners sharing their secrets with each other. Hell no. BBs are a little bit more They’re like territorial wolves a little bit more. Yeah. This is something that I think the people deserve an answer. Are you a workaholic? Yes, I am. Like diagnosed or just you just know it now. You know what? I don’t really know if you get diagnosed as a as a workaholic, you know. Um, but I was home yesterday and I had nothing to do and I just I just sat there and Yon asked me, she goes, “Is it weird to be home all day and do nothing?” And I was like, “It is.” And she goes, “Well, do you like it?” I was like, “I don’t know yet.” You and you’re not going to wait long enough to find out if you like it cuz you’re asking me back on a plane, dude. Hey, I was like, you know what, though? at 5:30 I’m flying to Arizona so we won’t have to worry about I don’t know how you don’t burn out like maybe it is because you know like [ __ ] [ __ ] your kids are older like Jordan I’m watching him play football he’s I can’t wait to talk about him he’s getting ready to go play for the Jets congrats on that by the way thank you brother that’s awesome second generation Clark and then and then also like just the amount of TV you’re on I just got my first taste of it being on Inside the NFL having to travel weekly do my show and then I watch you and I’m Like every time I see you, Alicia is like, “Oh, he just flew in last night at a red eyee or this or that.” And I wonder how you how you do it honestly. And I’m not gassing you like cuz I got worn out this fall. I got burned out. Well, you know, and you were you had your show right after we did ours. Yeah. So, a lot of times I would have a day after that. I think, man, when I first started in the business, I was like, “Okay, I’m gonna say yes to mostly everything.” Yeah. Until I could figure out what I could say no to. And so, if you remember the night of Demar Hamlin’s incident, I started that morning, bro, in New York, right? And then they flew me down midday to Scott to DC. Yeah. And I would start every morning 6:00 a.m. New York, finish in DC. And so like it was just kind of what I did. And I think now it’s like anything else. I do it because it’s on the schedule because I have to. I find a way to push through it. But you get tired, especially November, December. You just figure out a way though. What do you do on the plane, bro? I never asked you this. What are you a movie guy or what? So right now I’m in this sad movie phase. I don’t know if you I don’t know if you’ve seen it, bro. I’ve been like uh Stand by Me and [ __ ] like that or So I watch So I started with My Girl. Is that the bee movie? Yes, that’s the one. The where he gets stung by the bees. Thomas J. The sad movie. He needs his glasses. He can’t see without his glasses. And then she runs down the street and tries to holler at her teacher. It’s a very weird transition in between like Thomas J dying and that. But I saw this thing on Instagram and the title literally was movies that will break you. Do you want to right want to watch the movies? And so I watched My Girl first. I watched uh Reququum for a Dream. So totally [ __ ] up. It’s I will never watch it again, bro. One time was absolutely enough. I’ve It’s the one of the few movies that nothing good ever happens. They don’t have one high. Not at all. Well, there there’s a lot of highs. Lot lot of high. You know what I mean? And that’s the message is that with the highs come the lows. So you should maybe avoid those kind of highs. Hey, so I started with My Girl and then I posted it and people started sending me these other movies. So I literally have this list of movies that I’m going through and if they don’t make me cry, I don’t post them. But if they make me cry, I post. I got one for you. The Road starring Vgo Mortonson. I’ve never seen it. I will I will get it. There will be a scene in the movie and you text me and tell me if you found the scene where you’re like, I can’t do this anymore. Okay. Also, Sixman. That’s the only movie to ever make me cry. Oh, Kadim Hardison, Marlon Weighins. Yes, indeed. I’m with you with that one. I love your heart. I love your heart. When he when he walked through the wall and he had to go. Jeez, man. This is a tough It’s a tough. All right, I’ll bring the mood up. Speaking of teammates I haven’t seen in a while, we did get a chance a couple weeks ago. Greenlight was at um at the at the Cheese Steak place there in Philly. Was it? uh Goss turning into Saquon’s. So Saquon was on the Madden cover and they had us go interview him, but one of the guys that showed up and of course this is the way he moves. I had no idea he was there until I ran into him in the back. Chad. Chad was in the building. Chad came on the show. Uh I got this little nugget for you I want to share. Chad, did you know this about Chad that Chad was a stripper in community college? A male stripper. Shut up, man. Chad was not a stripper, bro. Dude, I believe it. Am I being naive? Yes, I’m falling for his [ __ ] Chris. Chris, like, real talk. In in community college, dude, guys need money. Chris, of all the people we know personally, who do you know that lies more to Chad? Like, for real. Like, be real. I know. And he does it so easily. So easily. And he does it so much. He just believes it now. Well, I know. And and now and so I do too. But you know what? He had us going, man. He said, you know what he said his name was? His stage name? What? Twix. Can you believe this [ __ ] dude? Hey. Hey. What kind of an idiot would believe that? Hey, you. You would. Oh, I was I was like in the show. I was like, “This is incredible. Let’s stay here for a second, Chad.” He’s like probably internally he was like, “I’m lying, dude.” Um you, bro, he he lied daily on our show. Yeah, that’s right. Like Like actually on the show lied. Yeah. On TV. We had Inside the NFL the last couple years, but we had it this year. And I thought this year was really cool, man. Like it was it was like um what what was your first reaction when they said, “Hey, Bill’s going to be on the show with y’all.” Um, so story goes like this though, right? They asked him and he said he didn’t think I liked him, right? So Bill was like, “How is that going to work? I feel like Ryan doesn’t like me.” And I was like, “I don’t know Bill to not like him.” I was like, “Yeah, they kicked our tail every time we played.” I was like, “But I don’t know him.” So, um, at the draft, he comes in to my room and we sat for like 30 minutes, bro. And we’re and we’re chopping it up and we get to a point in the conversation and we started talking about secondary play and we started talking about number one corners and I was like, “Yeah, so you know, Bill,” I said, “You could do it different ways.” I was like, “Think about the way you would use Revas, right? You would put Revas on the number two.” And I said, “And you would double or shade the number one DB.” I mean, the number one wide receiver. And when I said that, he’s like, “Oh, wait. You noticed that and after that, we were cool the entire way out.” And so, he kind of decided that he was going to do the show. And when he’s walking out, he shakes my hand. He goes, “But bro,” you know, like he’s like, “But Ryan, I don’t have to wear one of those two-tone suits, do I?” Yeah. He was calling you two-tone. Yeah. He was doing that. Yep. So, that was kind of how it all went down. But I thought it was I mean after that conversation I I knew it would be cool. I can’t say I knew the chemistry between the four of us cuz obviously me you and Chad I knew but adding Bill I didn’t know it would be like that. Like I think I was talking to somebody the other day bro and I said the show should have been the pre-show meeting. You know what I’m saying? Like like if we could put that show out like a hard knocks it’ll be the number one football show on TV cuz it was fun. It was a ton of knowledge, but it was like the real the real stuff. You thought about everybody, you know what I mean? Like it was like Bill, you, Chad, everybody was just relaxed. We talked ball. We had a good time, man. So, I really I enjoy this year, man, more than I can say. Isn’t that tough in TV though? It’s like, man, and you you live it like you got to fit everything into windows and and that those production meetings are more expansive and just generally people’s filters are Yeah. Or a little less. And And for Bill, like you got the real Bill on TV at times, but he still held a little in his back pocket. Bro, he held he held a ton because, you know, I would write notes in the meeting. Like if you would say something good, it would be in my mind. I want to make sure I get Chris back to this. Right. Right. And you know, people don’t know. we could edit the show so they might see the third thing we got around to because it was the best thing, right? But you remember, bro, I’d be trying to get Bill back to something he said in the meeting and he just wouldn’t say it. But the other piece was I think some of these people were his friends, right? And I knew he and he wanted to get back into coaching. And so like that was what that was what made it so hard uh with him. But man, I thought he did I thought he did a good job, bro. And it was it was really cool to see or to be around him and learn just how much he knew, right? Like we only got a little bit of it, but when we be talking about like the black and white film and how it relates to today and he can go talk about those players, the college allars versus the Super Bowl champion, like we got so much knowledge from Bill that I think we wouldn’t have gotten from anyone who who would have been on our show. And so, man, it was a it was a blessing, man, to have that year with all of y’all. Dude, did you have a favorite moment the entire season? I know it’s a tough one, but I think for me it was probably the Christmas gifting with Bill and uh where people were secret Santa and he got me a a Grateful Dead seed album and bag of potato chips, which basically calling me a stoner. Uh which I thought was hilarious coming from He’s not wrong. He’s not wrong. Uh, he’s not wrong. Uh, what did you get? Remember Chad got me the coolest gift, man. The guy that painted all of our portraits that were on the wall. They painted me a show me and Sean on the on on the sideline. Yeah. Uh, it’s one of my favorite pictures. Yeah. That was like that was that almost made me cry on air when he gave me that. And that was I think like that’s what I’ll miss about our show is because like so so many shows like ESPN, bro. You get there, you do the show, you leave. We really spent the whole day together. Mhm. Right. Like we got there in the morning, we did our meetings. The show took a while to tape. We could hang out a little bit afterwards. It was kind of like a locker room. And we had a coach this year. So that’s like the the piece I’ll miss. I’m trying to think of like what’s the moment I’ll miss the most. I It would have to be something Chad did, bro. Cuz Chad was like absolutely ridiculous. But you know what I always thought was hilarious? Not to like put Bill on the spot, but what I found out is there are a lot of players that I thought were really [ __ ] good that Bill doesn’t think are very good at all. They all suck. Everybody sucks. And remember, we come to the meeting fired up, too. And he like, “Oh [ __ ] Chris, he’s just sus.” Impressed with this guy. This [ __ ] guy. He want He doesn’t want anything. Hey, remember though, bro? Like sometimes he just get going and like couldn’t stop talking about one player, one play, one team dog. And then Mensel would try to talk. He was like, “Mince men, hold on, wait, let me get through this. Wait, Steve.” Yeah, he was, man, like he was a lot cooler than, you know, everybody, at least I thought he would be. And I do kind of hate it. It’s like when he moved out from us, got to North Carolina, everything’s been about his relationship. And I feel like some of the equity he built up doing TV, they’ve taken away from him. I don’t like that if we’re going there for a second because I think I think a lot of people have been waiting to beat Bill up because he’s always had the upper hand with the media. I think he’s always had the upper hand with the media and he’s got a younger girlfriend. He is not the first older [ __ ] to like younger women. Yeah, bro. Like and so I I I don’t know why he’s the one. I understand that there was some stuff at UNCC where they were kind of like where you know where’s the But let’s not act like they weren’t waiting to do this whether or not she was on the football field at spring practice. Bro, this was and and it’s not even I think it’s not even that he had the upper hand. is that they always had a disdain for him because they couldn’t get him to do what they wanted him to do. Right. No control. You see, they had no control over him and he was so good at his real job, he didn’t have to change that. That’s right. Right. He he didn’t have to be any different for them and they resented him. And so now there’s this thing and I think what makes makes it bad is it’s actually not about that’s not football. No. You know what I mean? It’s it’s not about him doing his job, but it is a little bit of a a dent in the armor and they’re like, “Hey, we’re going to attack it.” But to I think my biggest problem, bro, is and you know, you can it’s like you are attacking Bill, right? You are talking about his life, but it’s also these grown men who are fascinated with this young woman, right? And and and finding a way to like pick her apart and tear her down. And shoot, I got a daughter older than her and I know that makes it even sound probably even worse. You know what I’m saying? That explains the grays where I was getting on you. You know what I’m saying? But I feel, you know, but I just couldn’t imagine how I would feel if that was my child. One, I wouldn’t allow her to date Bill. But I’m saying like even if she was being Yeah. No, Bill. He’s not gonna have a lot of time or energy for non- football things. Yeah, for sure. Um, but no, Bill, Bill’s the man, dude. And we had a lot of fun this year. The one thing, hey, you know, you built an empire over at the pivot, man. And it’s been a lot of fun to watch that group grow and to work with Channing and and for me, one of the highlights is when Fred would be up in Jersey hanging out on the show, whether he was coming on the show, whether he was just in town for the week. I love Fred Taylor, dude. Bro, he he is the he’s the like the definition of the same all the time. Yeah. Right. Like the there is no highs, there is no lows. Like he’s just right here all the time. And we did a panel Saturday. You know what I mean? It’s a financial panel. So we’re talking about finances. And the first thing he says, he’s like, well, you know, and you could see all the women in the crowd go and look up, right? It was like a damn It was like a damn R&B group, bro. And Fred was the the the one guy that couldn’t sing that just talk. But not so women Freddy T’s real cute. Yeah, Freddy T is our sex symbol, bro. Really? I didn’t know that. Yeah, he’s our Barry White. He’s, you know, he’s if we were Joe, you know, me and Chan would be Casey and Jojo, the ugly guys in the front there saying he’s Mr. Din and Devonte. That’s [ __ ] great, dude. Yeah, no doubt. All right. Well, well, the question I had was and it kind of goes into like we talk about being in the media and not not wanting to criticize people too directly or whatever. I thought one of my favorite moments and I don’t see them all because I don’t watch that many in in in their entirety. I catch mostly clips. Yeah. Like we all do, right? Yeah. Cuz we’re all working. But um I thought the Tyreek interaction was great. M I thought that one to me gets at the crux of what I struggle with as a media member. And I know listen there’s no perfect way to do it, but we’re going to end up criticizing players at times, right? And I think you and I both try to take a beat before we do, but inevitably because it is personal. That’s my that’s my least favorite thing when people are like, “It’s not personal.” when you’re wearing the shoulder pads, everything’s personal. But there are ways that you can do that respectfully. And I thought the way you the way you unblinkingly and eloquently Yeah. told Tyreek what you said and why you said it and and the place you guys came to within a five 10 second Yeah. um interaction was really cool. I wish I wish more media members when confronted by players would handle it that way, but I just thought that was great and Tyreek had to respect it. Yeah. You know what I think too though, Chris, and you know, like me and you talk a lot, it’s like I think what happens with media members is because they’ve never been in our shoes. Right. Right. They they’ve never been in a locker room where you and you and another teammate are ready to throw hands. Yes. Right. They’ve never been in that place. Like you know and I know that’s not a time to fake tough. No. Right. Like like like that’s not a time to show, hey, I’m tougher than you or I’ll fight or whatever it is. If this man is telling me he has a problem with something I said, like I need to listen to him. Listen, you know? Yeah. I need to listen to him. And the the hope is he allows me to express myself, why I said it, my intention and say it. And I thought it was I thought it was beautiful and I was happy it happened on camera. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because shoot, I’m going be honest, bro. Like I ain’t always right. No. You know what I mean? But I never want a player to I never want a player to think I was attacking their character when I’m not or I addressed them in a way that was disrespectful when I didn’t. And so I thought it was really cool, man. And I thought Tyreek’s reaction to what I said was admirable. I thought he handled it with, you know, maturely. I felt like I did, too. And it’s the thing I think that’s different for players than for media members and journalists, right? And I I said this about Antonio Brown years back, like when people were like, you know, he said this, he says that, you know, why aren’t you responding? I said, I’m not responding in that way. I said, “Because I know Antonio Brown is not scared of me, right? So, I don’t need to talk to him in some way to try to place fear in his heart.” I said, “And the same for me, right? Nothing he’s going to tell me is going to make me scared to see him, confront him, have a conversation with him.” I said, “So, we don’t have to be loud, right? I don’t have to be loud with him cuz I’m willing to have the conversation. I’m also willing to take it where it has to. It needs to go if so be it.” So we don’t have to behave that way. And I feel the same about you. You know what I mean? Like yeah, you’re cool, but we understand. Hey, if you have to go there, you can, but both of us rather not. Yes. And and you know, not to give too much information. You and I have had disagreements. Yeah. But we have we have handled them like men, which is something I appreciate about you is, you know, I had a complaint at one point was like, “Hey, RC, I don’t like this.” And you were like, “Hey, let’s talk about this.” like and and you know and and we talked about it and squashed it. It’s just like bro that’s how men handle their business, but you made the point I don’t need to act like I don’t need to elevate my voice because that’s not what we’re here to do. Like we’ve been there, bro. That’s not what we’re here to do. You know what I’m saying? Like we we’re in the 40s, dog. And like that was like that’s the the crazy thing about our space now, though, is it can get disrespectful. Yes. You know, and it’s almost like the more disrespectful, the bigger the headline. Yes. You know, and we’re in a world of clicks. We’re in a world of fame. And um I was doing something recently, I can’t remember, and asked me a question about like how the analysts are now becoming the star. I said, “If it’s ever a situation to where we’re becoming the star, then we’re wrong.” Yeah. Right. If if the focus is on us, we got to find a way to put it back on the game, to put it back on the players, back on the dudes that are doing it because the only time they start caring about us is when we get out of pocket, right? Yeah. I I figure it’s probably hard on TV, though, like cuz every day is like, “Hey, what’s the I I’m not asking you to criticize ESPN. ESPN’s great. They do a lot of great content, but like you got to talk every day.” And sometimes like the the the moment demands that somebody shows some emotion or or or or is definitive about something. You know me sometimes we’d be in a meeting. I’d be like, “Well, I see both sides of it.” You know, I’m talking and you’re like, “Hey, you got to take a side.” You know, you know what’s And so like you can you could see both sides of it, but you have to have an answer. Yes. You know what I mean? And so the the thing that’s hard now, bro, is like the getups and the first takes. Like those are debate shows. Yeah. So literally if me and you have the same opinion, that’s not really something they want to talk about. I know. I know. You know what I mean? Because cuz you’re going to say whatever you say and then I’m going to go shoot Chris, I agree with you and I’m basically going to say the same thing just in my voice. Right. Right. That that doesn’t allow a rebuttal. that doesn’t rely uh allow a conversation back and forth which doesn’t necessarily allow fun. And so I think that’s what’s hard. And the other piece is this. At 8:00 I talk about Chiefs versus Eagles, right? I probably do it at 9:00. I might do it at 9:45. Again at 10:30, again at 4. Where you get into trouble is trying to reinvent that thought. Yes. You know what I’m saying? And it’s like, okay, I said it like this this morning, so now I got to say this. And you end up saying some things you don’t really mean. You don’t really intend. And you say it in a way you don’t. And that’s the one day they clip from the day. No question. The clip, the getting clip, man. And the and the the repeat and try to put a little extra English on it because you’re like, I don’t want to be boring and mail it in and just do the the the same [ __ ] take, which is not [ __ ] but it sounds like it the fourth time, right? So you try to do a little more and then you end up uh Dove Kleimman whoever’s running Dave Kleman’s account. Is that a real dude? No, it used to be a real dude. Now it’s like some some guy who bought his uh Twitter account, I believe, and is posting under his pseudonym. You know what’s crazy, bro? Um around uh Penn State Notre Dame, this whole thing was going on. People were saying that like I talk good about Lamar cuz he was black or I talk bad about Josh. I wanted I did and it was this whole thing, right? And um someone from Outkick actually had my number and they text me about it, right? And I wasn’t very nice. Um and I said, you know, like you guys have been misquing me for an entire year. I was like, an entire year you’ve been misquing me. Like you said, I said something that I didn’t say. I even went on Michelle Toyer’s podcast. I remember this, right? And she played it and before she played it, she asked me, she was like, “You know, you said that Lamar was the only authentically black quarterback in the league or whatever, something like that, right?” And when she played it, after it was over, I said, “Okay, tell me when I said it, right?” And then she goes, “Uh, well, is it another clip?” I said, “No, this is the entire clip.” But what happened was uh one Twitter site posted it in quotation marks. People don’t listen, people don’t read. And so everybody started clipping it again. And so I told this guy from out kick that, right? And he went through and he listened and he checked it and he actually to his credit called his the executives or whatever it is and they took down everything they had ever posted about that. But in that moment, Chris, that was when I was allowed or I allowed myself to release any tension I have of being misunderstood cuz that was always my thing, right? You could dislike me. Not just don’t misunderstand me the same way, right? Yeah. And so I realized, damn, wait, they ain’t even trying to understand, bro. Not at all. you know, and and and I need I needed to get there because that’s why I would have like Twitter back and forths or back and forths with people, not because I wanted them to say I was right. I wanted them to be like, “Oh, this is exactly what you mean. This is what you intended to say. I get it. I still don’t like you. Cool. I don’t like you neither.” Right? You know what I mean? And so, but that that was a moment that allowed me to kind of release that because I was like, “Oh, wait. They trying to f over me anyway. They not really listening. They’re not trying to get to the true bottom of it, you know, because it’s like because as much as I I claim to not give a [ __ ] about what people think, right? The game of telephone drives you crazy where it’s like, hey, I don’t care if it’s 10,000 people I never meet. I don’t want to be misrepresented. And um and and that is probably coincidentally my biggest fear as a media member is getting on here and getting aggregated and taken out of context. And a bigger fear for me is a player hearing that I said something that I didn’t about them. There was once a situation where I guess Buddha Baker famously, if you’re a listener of this show, you know this situation, but Buddha Baker ran ran back a um a fumble for a touchdown or something like that. So, I had said Buddha Baker hadn’t had a he hadn’t had a pick six yet. And uh you know I was kind of having fun knowing how guys raz each other in locker rooms about hey getting hawkked down and that sort of thing. And he got hked. He got halked by DK. He got hooked. Yeah. It was the DK hawk. Yeah. And so we were having fun with the play and the game of telephone got back to D to Buddha Baker as if I was busting his chops and that I had said that he had never scored a touchdown. What I said he never had a pick six. So then he gets on Twitter all caps. Chris Long don’t know Buddha Baker who’s you know all this [ __ ] and you know it’s and to me my heart sank because number one is I not only know Buddha Baker I respect the [ __ ] out of Buddha Baker. Exactly. One of my favorite players. Yeah. And um you know we’re not it’s never you know a me against you contest but as far as a player he’s been places I didn’t get to go. Yeah. And so I got a lot of respect for Buddha Baker. So what I did is I reached out to him on Instagram and I said, “Hey, my man, it’s not what I said. Here’s what I said.” Squashed it just like that. And and you know, it’s a small example, but it’s like an innocuous thing that can turn into a bigger thing. And as the content creator, now I firmly believe there’s some people in the media who do not care. They don’t at all. Um, but I know you and I know you care and I care as well. And we’ve had these conversations. So, I think it’s an interesting look under the hood of somebody who has to talk every [ __ ] day. But you know what, too, Chris? Like, think about that for you, though. It It didn’t just matter. You did something about it. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? Like, like I think and and that’s what people need to hear and need to understand, especially at least in my in the way I see it in former players. If a if another media member is twisting my words, I can let that go. Yeah. But if there’s a player that believes I said something about them or did something to them that I didn’t, I don’t want that out there about me because because now that narrative starts that I I’m not player first when both of us are. That’s exactly right. Yeah. Right. Like if you’re going to if you f it up, we got to say that like you you know, what do you want us to do? Just kiss your ass all day? That’s the other side of it. And and that’s and that’s today’s athlete though a little bit like here I am we’re going pro player now I’m gonna go anti-player for a second. I do believe today’s athlete Ryan is a little more sensitive and I can’t blame him because there’s this onslaught of criticism that our generation and I was kind of we were both at the cusp of the change of the guard. Yeah. Yeah, but there was a whole like if you played in the ‘9s, you read about yourself in the paper, maybe it’s but are are they okay, here’s my question to you. Are they more sensitive or do they have access to more criticism than we had? I think we’re making the same point. Yeah. And this is it goes back to the classic, hey, Michael Jordan and those guys, they were different. They weren’t even [ __ ] friends with each other. Then the Last Dance comes out and him and [ __ ] the guys from the Celtics are playing golf the day before, right? Easter conference Finals game. They’re just like us, you know, my dad would have been just like me, but he was he played in the 90s. Things were different. And and and you know, as as painful as it might be to think about somebody thinking about, you know, [ __ ] James Harrison might have had a Tik Tok, Bri, like no, who knows? But he might have had social media. Hey, he might have been in the middle of the uh logo with Guju. No, I don’t think so, dude. But everybody would have had something to say, dude. Michael Jordan. It’s easy. Speaking of that, speaking of that, and you got to show your people this, James absolutely would have had a Tik Tok. So, he had clean his meniscus up a while back. Debo was 308, bro. So, he was almost 310bs. He went on this big diet the other day. He post a picture with his shirt off flexing his abs by the pool like a IG model. Hey bro, that’s Chris. That’s not the James Harrison I knew, bro. You’re only as good as your opportunities, man. And and now guys have a ton of opportunities to to to humanize themselves, you know? And that’s why like guys back in the day like we got this mystique around, hey, Jack Lambert, all these guys, like imagine those guys had [ __ ] social media. They you never know. you would have known those players more. It wouldn’t have been as scary. And so I I think that Bro, Jack Lambert would have been popping his teeth out on Instagram stories where people party tricks. Yeah. Come on, man. Like just destroying beers on on Instagram live, dude. The You know what though? I I’ll I’ll say they are they they do have access to more information than we had, Chris. Yeah. But I also say, and I could be wrong, like this is a personal opinion, they also have access to more praise. So you start to enjoy that. Like you start to live off of like what other people are saying. Yeah. Because if you go on, if you go have a three sack day at Virginia, now the entire student body can talk about how great you are. You can see what every analyst is saying about you, right? Like I I remember, bro, when Twitter first got hot, dudes saying on the sideline, “Man, I know Twitter’s killing me.” Like I like I I I heard people say that, you know what I mean? And so, you know, that’s because they’re going to it right after the game. They can’t even get home before they’re looking at what people definitely DB, dude. No offense. Yeah, it was a DB for a DB, dude. Well, because you know the other thing is though, like when you miss your gap, Chris, I come make the tackle. Not as many people know. Twitter and Twitter don’t know. Not as many people know. But but conversely, you could rush your ass off and not get home and Twitter doesn’t know. So, it’s just every position’s got Hey, I swear to God, I did used to think if I got like I got blown up a couple times, like a handful of times in my career. One time Maurice Jones drew on the sideline uh clean my clock. Didn’t see him coming. You know, little [ __ ] just snuck up on me and decleed me. Well, he ain’t but this tall. I know. So, I didn’t see. Didn’t hurt at all. By the way, Maurice, you’re a great player, but it didn’t hurt. Um, but uh the other time in the playoffs with the Patriots, I like jumped out of my gap and just got declleted. Totally tech technique unound trying to make a play. And I remember getting up off the ground and being like, “Yo, I’m on TV right now.” And so like the cameras now, the replays, the I wasn’t thinking about Twitter, but I was thinking about a bunch of people in their [ __ ] living room for a split second walking back to the huddle like, damn, dude. And then the thing that snapped me out of it was Bill going, “Get him off the [ __ ] field.” Hey, now at least you ain’t no TV no more. They just got you jogging to the sideline looking. Yeah. No, so I guess that was my question is like, well, there is no question. I guess the question would be, are today’s athletes as soft as people say? Cuz I I always take the other side of that and I say they’re actually pretty [ __ ] tough. They’re actually pretty [ __ ] well conditioned and hardworking and detail oriented, smart. They just, you know, them more. There there are all the things here’s what I say. There are all the things we used to be they just won’t accept or weren’t won’t weren’t told as much as we were to just shut up and go do it. Yeah. Sure. You see what I’m saying? like we we had a level of and I don’t want to just I don’t want to call it respect cuz I don’t want to make player today’s players sound disrespectful but we didn’t grow up having conversations. We didn’t grow up having conversations with our parents, right? Like our parents told us what to do. We we did it. It was not a negotiation. It wasn’t a negotiation. Whereas whereas like if you keep looking at what’s going on now, Chris, like I just went to Athletes First Elite Week, right? David Mulligetta. Yeah, bro. There were high school kids there. Yeah. Right. Because they have to represent them now for NIL. And I asked I was like, “Why are there so many high school kids here?” They said anybody that’s going to be worth representing when they enter the draft is going to have an agent in college. That if you try to represent them at that time, you will not be able to get them. You’ll be too late. So, think about the way that these kids are being coddled, these kids are being recruited daily. Yeah. It’s only going to get worse because they’re going to feel like they get to have a say or build the narrative in everything that they do because right now at 16, not only are they being recruited by Alabama, you’re being recruited by the biggest agents in football. Yeah. That are telling you one day you’re going to walk across the stage and hear your name called and hug Roger Goodell. Yep. It’s hard to tell me to shut up. Well, you know, you know, it’s funny. you you really laid out one side of the coin. The other side I just want to reiterate is I think where they where they have a harder time than we did is the the profuse and everpresent criticism which I think we are while we might look for the praise, we’re a lot more in tune with the criticism because that’s who we are, right? So I think that side of it they got a little rougher in all the ways you talked about and obviously training camp’s way [ __ ] easier and all this [ __ ] and you know but I do think there is a loss of the the innocence of going to school and just playing college football. Everything is a decision now for all these kids. They’re making adult decisions from the minute they walk in the building. Hey, right down to Ryan. Like it seems like a privilege to be able to jump ship and go wherever you want year after year, but when you’re done, where do you go home to? Yes. Yes. Like that is like that’s the thing I loved about going to LSU and I always tell everybody because they’re like, “Man, you know, you’re a steal a homer.” No, I’m not. Yeah. Like honestly, I don’t have a team that picked me and kept me. Right. Yeah. Ultimately, you get caught eventually or traded or something happened with your contract. Yeah. I’m going have a team that picked me and kept me. And so LSU was the place I picked. Yeah. Right. And and there there was no leaving. Like it I never at any point in my career and I had a really good career thought to myself there’s somewhere else I want to be. Yeah. There’s some somebody else I want to represent. There’s some place else or another stadium I want to be in to where it’s like these kids man like like what is your place? And I got to see it a little bit with Jordan. Um you know he was at Arizona State for four years and he only played one year with uh Kenny Dillingham. Yeah. Right. uh their coach, the defense coordinator, Coach Ward. It was a cool deal. We all came out here for the draft and he didn’t get drafted. We knew where he was going. You’re like the fifth round. Aaron Glenn called him and man, so we’re eating at Dominic’s here and Arizona State’s having a recruiting dinner. So on the way to the dinner, Kenny Dillingham FaceTimes Jordan. Congratulations, man. I love you, man. You’re this. You’re that, man. I’m so happy for you. We get there. They walk in, he comes to the table, his defense coordinator from Arizona State, and his wife come to the table, they buy us a bottle of champagne. And it was so cool because Jordan could have left their first year, but he didn’t. Right. He stuck it out with he’s like, I want to see what we could do. And he struggled to leave the year he did. Oh, yeah. But he spent four years here, man. And I’ll never forget Dillingham for this. And I told this story. It’s like 10:30 on during Jordan’s trip to Notre Dame, his visit. Marcus Freeman calls me and he said, “I just spent 30 minutes on the phone with Kenny Dillingham telling me how amazing Jordan was, you know.” And so he can always come back to that place because of what he put in it and how difficult it was for him to leave. And he can still go back to he can go back to Notre Dame as well. Yeah. And so I did get to experience both sides of it. But for these kids that parents make them mercenaries and the breadwinners of the family, I feel for them, bro, because they aren’t even in control of their presence of their present nor their future. And that’s a tough place to be. No question. And it’s a good chance to bring up Jordan, who at this point is getting ready to suit it up for the Jets. man. And we’ve talked about this before, you know, like the pressure of being that guy, being Ryan Clark’s son, you know, of being Howie Long’s son or whatever it is. Like, so I know what and we’re all different, but to a degree, I’m sure a different, you know, force in the road. I I, you know, I got something in common with him and that’s why I was so happy for him and it was so fun to watch you be a dad. Yeah. Thank you, man. and like just everything you pour into it and the way you were not only obviously his his his dad and you know where the rubber meets the road but also his buddy which I think is really cool and and also I feel that way about my dad um having having grown up with him as as a mentor and a and a football coach and a dad rolled into one. So I just wonder man like what was that journey like from a football standpoint trying not to trying not to step on his toes but but trying to be there for him and not overshadow Yeah. You know like the we worked our way to like his independence football-wise. Yeah. You know and like you can watch my look at my social media now like I’m still his trainer. I’m the only DB trainer he’s ever had. You might be out for a week though. Tell people that real quick. Yeah, man. So, um, there’s this game called Danny Ball, right? And it’s two on two volleyball in the sand with a 10 pound medicine ball and you throw it, right? You can’t pass to each other. But at one point in my life, Chris, I was the greatest player in the world. I was the best Danny ball player in the world. Really? Yeah. They called me They called me Kobe Bryant. What set you set you apart? Yeah. You called yourself Kobe I called myself Kobe Bryant. Okay. Bean. They called you Bean. Hey, but it caught on. Okay. it it caught on. And so, but I was really good at it, right? And so, last week, I’m out here. I trained the guys. We’re going to play Danny B. I was like, I could get out there and do a little something, right? I remember like I wouldn’t stretch a lot when I went out there because it’s volleyball court. So, I don’t stretch. I get right into it. First throw, I thought my calves was going to pop. So, now all I’m seeing is Tyrese Halenbert, you know what I mean? I’m like I’m like, damn, am I going to, you know? So, but I start feeling good, Chris. I make some plays. I’m playing against Nick Cross, you know, who plays for the coach, you know. So, I’m like, “Okay.” So, I’m going at Nick. So, I He throws one. I run all the way up to the net. I catch it. I flip it over. He’s a 43 guy. So, he takes off to go get it. And I’m like, “Man, I can stick my foot in the ground and go make a play.” Bro, soon as I pick that second step up, foul, I felt it, right? And so now it’s the stupidity of being 45 and injured. It feels pretty dumb, dude. I’m stupid. Aldi was in Vegas at the sack summit last week. He popped his hammy running in the terminal to try to make his flight. He said he set up by the attachment, Chris. Hey, hey, at least by the attachment. That’s high. That’s not good. Hey, at least at least, bro, I was doing something athletic. But like it’s the the I don’t think people really kind of like especially us think about getting old, you know, and and not being able to do what you once did, you know? We I was uh having a conversation with somebody and they were just he was like, “Man, I used to be an athlete, too.” Cuz he was kind of kind of talking crap to me. And I said, “But we were different type of athletes.” Mhm. You know what I mean? And I was like, uh, you know, like I made a choice to stop being an athlete. Mhm. They chose, they didn’t choose you ever. You know what I mean? I was like, and it’s different. And you live in that world so much and you admire the people around you so much. You almost forget how talented and how hard these dudes work, man. Yeah. And that thing popped on me, bro. And I’m done for the summer. I’m out of there. You know, it’s over. But that’s a really good thread. I want to I want to I want to pull that thread in a second. I want you I’m sorry to take you on a sidebar. Talk about Jordan because I because I think what you just brought up is really poignant for currently a 40-year-old athlete. Yes. No, it’s uh it’s super cool, man. And you know, he had he had a day that he didn’t love um in the all during the offseason otaas, right? He had a practice he wasn’t great about. And so I was just always hit him up, how’s things going? You know, how’s everything going? And I was like, “How was practice?” And he was like, “You know, Pop, I really don’t want to talk about it.” He’s like, “I’mma process it. I’mma get through with it. I’mma watch this film and I’m going to be done, right?” And you know what I told you? Okay. Yeah. You mean and hit me up when you need me. Y because you know the good thing about us is we know what that day is like. Yep. Right. We we know what what that experience is. We know that we got to process it on our own. And especially I know what it’s like to be a rookie undrafted free agent. You know, even though you know Aaron Glenn’s like want you here, you’re going to get a chance to compete. All these things like it’s still that pressure on him. I know exactly what that feels like. And so when you have a bad day, it almost feels like a bad month cuz you’re cuz you’re so worried about, well, will they think I’m not good enough? Will they go back to this is why I wasn’t drafted. And so it’s been really cool to watch him process it, man. To to watch him work, uh, and to watch his confidence grow as it did throughout the offseason to be like, wait, no, I do belong here, right? Like I did earn this opportunity. And so, man, I’m very I’m just happy for him. And like I remember his freshman year, he broke his ankle playing basketball. He was on the he’s on the freshman basketball team. He broke his ankle playing basketball. And he was like, “No, Pop. like just tie my shoe like I promise if you just tie my shoe tight I can go play but I could see the ankle like sticking out the shoe and I was like no son you know I’m going to put you in the truck I’m go to the uh hospital and I remember when they told him he broke his ankle the first thing he told me he’s like he starts crying he’s like dad this is going to mess up everything for football and u when he got healthy I remember we started from like ground zero bro like jump rope and we started doing like quick foot ladders and we just worked his he just worked his way up into being an Under Armour All-American and playing at ASU, playing at Notre Dame. And to me, the kid that I watch train now is still the kid that was crying in the hospital that broke his ankle, right? That that thought his football career was over because of that, you know. So, it’s really like I’m I’m just really He’s always He’s always your your little guy. Always, bro. It never changes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had my first I had my first moment like this where I was last week I was on the road and Wayan was at a football camp, my oldest. And you know, and I know this deal cuz and I’m sure Jordan at some point knows this deal, but some kid at camp who he didn’t go to school with. His dad played ball like small college ball and I guess was bragging about his dad and that sort of thing, which is that’s normal. He should. Yeah. Yeah. But then he’s up behind my my son in line and supposedly said to him, “Hey, you never be as good as your dad. You never be as good as your dad.” You know, that whole thing. And so I call home to I call home because, you know, as a kid who heard it at different points, I knew it was coming at some point. the the realization that it’s not just fun to be able to FaceTime Max Crosby or you know like like know Ryan Clark or come to work and give Bill Bichc [ __ ] because he wouldn’t give me a football guy give you all the [ __ ] football guys. They said hey they said Bill I’m going to be on the sideline cussing you out but that’s not it’s all not all like it’s not all fun having dad that plays football. You’re going to be compared to that dad. And the day you realize that things change a little bit, right? And the way you look at your dad might change a little bit too, but I was like bracing for this. And so I I call Meg and I’m like, “Hey, how was football today?” And she goes, “You’re gonna want to talk to him.” And so he takes the FaceTime in the other room. And he explains to me what happened. And I I I gave him some advice, okay? I’m not not going to give him, but basically my advice is you can’t respond to everybody that’s got something to say, but you need to stand up for yourself. Y right. And so the next day I said, “Call me after camp.” And uh his mom said, “You’re going to want to talk to him.” So he goes in the other room. I said I said, “Uh, how was how was your friend today?” He goes, “Well, he came right up to me again. He he just said it again.” He said, “Hey, don’t forget you’ll never be as good as your dad.” And uh and what I go, “Yeah.” And I go, “What’ you say?” And he goes, I turned around and I said, “Hey, why don’t you shut the [ __ ] up and start worrying about being as good as your dad?” He goes, “Why don’t you start there?” And I said, I said, I said, “That’s pretty.” I said, “That’s pretty good. That’s pretty good. That is pretty good. That’s pretty good.” I said, “They really rolled off the tongue, man. You need to You need to maybe just save that for the right situation.” But I It’s glad to know you have that in your bag, buddy. Hey, that that that that that’s first off, it’s not a bad situation to use it. Good context for using the word. Very good context used correctly. Used correctly. You sounded good. You didn’t hesitate. You didn’t say you’re not a bad cursor. No. Well, that’s one more cuss word than you’ve said all year. So, I feel like I’m my son’s just but but bro, I mean it is it is a lot of it’s a lot of pressure being somebody like your your son or my dad’s son or or my son and and you know it’s not lost on me whenever I see a guy make it. Yeah. You know, because nobody ever says, “Hey, Jordan had a hard road.” Everybody says he had an easy road. His dad’s Ryan Clark. But the truth is when he walks into a room growing up, a lot of people are saying, “Hey, he’s a target. That’s Ryan Clark’s son.” You know, can I ask you can I ask you a question? Yeah. So, obviously, and I Well, I just want to say this before you asked me a question. I said to him, Ryan, I said, you know, they used to say that same [ __ ] thing to me. I said, and you know what? They were right. I said I said I said but but but I played in the NFL for 11 years. I kicked some major ass man. I said and and I got to be honest with you there’s no guarantee you’re going to be as good as me. I said if you are that’ll mean some you did some pretty good [ __ ] I said it didn’t happen easy. So if he’s as good as you he does some some some great things. But here’s what I wanted to ask you Chris and you know you your father’s a Hall of Famer. you’re drafted second overall. It It’s obviously an anomaly, but I feel like now more and more we’re seeing former players Suns be really good. I just Notre Dame just signed Thomas Davis, Larry Fitzgerald, and Jamaich Finley or they just all committed in like the last week. Oh yeah. To to Notre Dame. You know what I mean? Is it I don’t know. Are we seeing it more or do we just hear about it more? I think we might hear about it more. I also think like like when we start seeing him in the pros more, I’ll start to think the tren trends really change him. But although you see like like Randy Moss’s son, Thaddius Moss, who I think that Moss was at LSU. Y um a lot of people remember him for that cross block which was not dirty at all. People you need to you need to play the cup block. Uh I think we’re over that. But um you know I think what what’s interesting is when you study it you’re like a lot of the best players who had former player dads like you know people don’t even realize they’re crossal you know like Cam Jordan his dad was a hell the tight end tight end tight end was he not all pro or whatever it is like people don’t associate him necessarily the same way they might associate somebody whose son plays the same position No, you’re right. You’re right about that. And I’m trying to think of some other second generation guys, but I think it’s true in a lot of situations where it’s like you got uh shoot um Smith that plays tight end. His his dad his dad played in the league. Um Mark Ingram. Mark Ingram. Didn’t Ingram Ingram obviously Jamal Jamal Adams’s father was a firstround draft pick of the Giants at running back. Hayward. Cam Hayward. his father played. Yeah. So, it’s interesting to me where it’s like it’s almost rarer to be the guy that plays the same position your dad did in a lot of ways. Yeah. I think it’s harder too. It might be harder. It might be hard. Don’t be saying like they they pay more attention to me, I think, to that guy because you can have a direct comparison to the father. No, no question. you know, but no, anyways, you you make a real good point where I think there’s more of it happening, you know, at at least the collegiate level where we’re maybe we’re hearing about it more. I don’t know. Well, Ry, I appreciate you. Generous with your time, dude. We got to catch up more. I miss you. I miss you, my boy. Yeah, man. Uh and and give my best to Jordan, man. I’m I’m watching play, man. 58 days till football. 58 days, brother. Love you, my boy. Love you, man. See you.

Ryan Clark and Chris Long talking ball. The fellas chop it up and cover a number of NFL and sports topics. Ryan gives his opinion on Pittsburgh Steelers’ head coach Mike Tomlin’s career, the Steelers 2025 outlook and name NFL stars to specific superlatives like ‘Most Underrated’ and ‘Freak of Nature.’ The guys also cover the current sports media landscape, Ryan’s ESPN career and Pivot podcast, time with Bill Belichick at Inside the NFL and talk about the pressures of their sons’ playing football with NFL fathers. Enjoy!

00:00:00 – Intro
00:10:28 – Pittsburgh Steelers & Mike Tomlin’s Career
00:23:00 – NFL First Takes
00:39:15 – Ryan’s Work Habits
00:43:30 – Inside the NFL
00:53:45 – The Pivot Podcast and the NFL Media
01:16:40 – Sons Playing Football

Bryan Braman’s GoFundeMe can be found here:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/donate-to-bryan-bramans-healing-journey

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