Jim Owczarski on the Myles Turner deal, Bucks Free Agency & Reshaped Roster (Hear District Ep. 70)

Jim Owczarski on the Myles Turner deal, Bucks Free Agency & Reshaped Roster (Hear District Ep. 70)

Miles Turner is not an all-star yet or an alldefensive team member yet. Guys tend to get to those levels when they play next to 34. If he’s around that 15 to 18 like and and two and a half blocks a game and the Bucks are are kind of doing their thing like suddenly it’s oh who’s checking that all-star box. Five time allstar Marcus Johnson alongside Marcus Johnson. What’s up everybody? Hey, this is the here district captain of this vessel and I got my first mate, my number one son, Christian Johnson. What up? Talk to me. Holla. Let it rain, man. Let it rain. I guess I go. Guess what? We’re going back. Yeah. Okay. Pass all the pass go. Welcome everybody to the here district. Marcus Johnson. You’re listening to a Bucks Plus audio production on the Bucks Plus Network. Your weekly pulse on the Milwaukee Bucks straight from a Bucks legend. This is Here District with Marcus Johnson alongside his son and 1995 NCAA champion Chris. Here’s MJ. Welcome to the Here District. I am the captain of this vessel that has been has been rescued. This vessel it it was a runaway ship. It was it was the Amastad. It was going somewhere that without a destination, but all of a sudden uh things swiftly change around. Listen, uh my first mate Chris Johnson. Chris and I the only father and son win a national championship at the same school. We got to start this off with that. And then we’ve got the guy in the house. If you ever want to talk about Milwaukee Buck moves, this is the guy to have, Jim Ozarkski. Jim, thank you so much for coming by here, district, at this most pivotal time in Bucks history. Thank you. No, thanks. Thank you for having me as always. My first question for you, did you have the slightest inkling that the stretch provision would be used on a guy the caliber of a Dame Lillard? On the surface, no. I I did not think uh they would use the stretch provision. I don’t think the Bucks have done that since Larry Sanders. Wow. That seemed like a lifetimes ago, right? In terms of the CBA and the money involved and all that stuff. So, no, I admittedly did not think um they would use that mechanism. What’s interesting though is late Sunday night, so free agency gets started and you know uh teams are allowed to negotiate with their own free agents at the end of the finals, right? So, as some of the Bucks as some of the moves were kind of being made late Sunday, um get a get a tip and it’s like, hey, the Bucks are doing something big. No one quite knew what that was. like we knew it wasn’t a trade, you know, it was it was free agent related and but no one kind of could could flesh that out. And from what kind of source, Jim, what kind of I mean, I know you can’t, but it is it someone familiar. How much can you how much can you tell us about about the source? I mean, it was pretty like it was someone familiar with kind of the early deals of bringing back their own free agents, right? Okay. you know, and so like when this all started, not to bore your listeners, when this all started, the Bucks had money and, you know, options to use to resign Kevin Porter Jr., Gary Trent Jr., uh you know Brook Lopez by they they had all these options and as like some of those things started to get done um at least the guy’s coming back it all of a sudden like the math like people around the league were like wait a minute like this math the wait Gary’s coming back for what Kevin’s coming back for like wait that doesn’t fit this all of a sudden this oh what but it was like a where like how where situation and and again, um, you know, credit to John Horse and and Miles Turner’s people, um, to to find, uh, I guess a way to to open up a discussion and that leads to, yeah, the wave and stretch and all of a sudden the Bucks were a cap space team. And yeah, it didn’t occur to me initially because you just it was a two-year hit, Marcus and Chris, right? um a lot of money. Maybe, you know, your all-star point guard could come back late in the year and then you you kind of rock with it next summer and see what happens. But yeah, it was it was a surprise like cuz even even the little bit of a oh wait, what are they doing? No one, Trust me, I I don’t think anybody was like that’s what’s going to happen for sure. Yeah, it seemed like the Bucks John Horse and his staff put all their options on the table and try to figure out a way and this was sort of the last result. Now, let me ask you this, Jim. Uh, we talked a little bit about it before we went on air. I just wanted to get the clarification about the disabled player exemption from you and how that works and why the Bucks probably or didn’t wouldn’t have gotten it for D. Yeah. So, so it was a great question. A lot of fans wondered this and really what that requires is an independent doctor from the NBA to come examine the player or the records, etc., and determined he would be out until the next league year. So someone would had to come in and say Dame is going to be out unavailable to play at all until July of 2026. And for as severe as Achilles injuries are, they’re typically a 12 month injury. They’re considered a 12-month injury to to come back from fully. Um which would be April of next year. Yeah. So, the Bucks could have and maybe they did have someone do this already. Maybe they they applied for it and that was already looked and and they were told and basically um what my understanding guys was Dame would have had to have a setback somewhere in the rehab process to then have the league come in and say, “Okay, yeah, no, he’s out.” And then it wouldn’t have been half of his salary. It would have been a portion, I believe, around the the non- taxpayer mid-level, which is $14 million. Um, and that would have been added to the cap. It was wasn’t going to be free money. You know, they would have had to pay a tax on that if if they went into it. So, I I think Chris, to your point, um, once they got to this part of the discussion, it was, okay, how do we, you know, how do we make moves? How do we make some money, make the team better in this coming season and and going forward? And this was, you know, the best option they they determined. Okay. So, we got the two principles in this deal. Let’s talk about the the the dame aspect first of all. Um, you know, I don’t know about you, Chris Jim, but when it’s when when the news of the deal first went down, I got so many texts. You guys waved Dame Lillard. How could you w you wave dame? Wow, that was cold. You know, just just kind of not understanding fully um you know, the business aspect and and and and the situation that the Bucks were in. Um, Jim, have you heard I’ve heard different different I haven’t heard different. One thing I’ve heard is that I mean I just read something today where Dame was elated. I think was the may have been the term used. Dame was elated because this gives him an opportunity to kind of take control of the direction of the remaining part of his career from this point on. And what have you heard from his camp if anything? Yeah, I think that’s it’s been pretty clear, Margus and Chris, that look, they they Damen and the Bucks tried their best, right, to make this work and for whatever reasons, injury mostly, obviously Dames are very open about his personal life and a lot of the things he’s been dealing with personally, right, um, since coming to Milwaukee. So yeah, I think the there’s there’s always an initial sting, right, of wait a minute, like I’ll just cut and you you I’m cut I’m waved, but then it is oh well now I can kind of dictate to a degree where I go from here. Um and so yeah, I think you know that that idea Mark is I mean you lived a little bit. I I you know if you can get all of your money which he is getting all of his money at $13 million um and then can and so you’re not worried about that you know it’s not the NFL you know um and so that’s not a concern you can be home and you know with your family which obviously was is a big deal for him um and then sort of see what’s next. Yeah, I I think look, I I I think it’s not a reflection on Milwaukee. I think Dame, you know, he he insisted throughout, guys. Marcus, I know you’ve talked to him, Chris, like it’s he he did the job, did his best he could. He’s like, I have no problem being here. Like, he he kind of took exception to like the body language experts and stuff over these last couple years, but let’s be real, like it it, you know, he he didn’t Milwaukee wasn’t like trade me to the Bucks, right? Right. So the idea that he’s home and can now pick where he goes. Yeah. Once he’s healthy, it’s you know, I don’t I think it’s a win-win for everybody in that way. Yeah. Well, in the winter time, we are actually the anti Miami. We’re about as far away from Miami in the winter time. But see summertime, it’s a different story. We’re we’re close. We’re close. We’re not there yet, but we’re close. But but but but uh you know, winter time, I I was telling Christian Jim about a story. I I was uh leaving the practice facility and Dame was in the big Tesla truck. What is that called, Chris? The the big uh cyber truck. The cyber truck. He’s got the big cyber truck. I’m waiting across the street to head back to my apartment as I see you and and and and Eric, every every time we leave practice, you guys are waiting for the for the for the presser afterwards. And I’m crossing the street with a bag full of food, you know, getting ready to go eat and chill. And so Dave pulls up at the Cyber Truck gym. It’s about 10 below outside. I’m freezing trying to get in. He rolls the window down, man. He has on like maybe a t-shirt, maybe no shirt. I don’t know what it I don’t know what’s going on in that cyber truck, but he’s like, “What’s up, OG?” And I’m thinking to myself right at that moment, this dude thinks he’s in Miami. First of all, Dame Lillard and Kevin Calabro, who I worked with for years in Seattle, does the uh TV for the Blazers, got to know Dame really well the past 10, 12 years, whatever it was. And Kevin told me that I was going to love him, that he was he was one of the coolest dudes just in terms of treating everybody with the with the with the with the element of respect and dignity from the front office presidents to to the to the ushers and and and and you saw that with Dame all the time. He was just a class guy to be around. But there was a certain part of him, certain part of me, the Dame Dollar the the the the the six million follow, you know, and I gotta be I gotta be honest here. I mean, you know, Dame for whatever reason, I don’t know if the personal relationship stuff that he was going through, being away from his kid, being in a city, he didn’t that wasn’t his first option. Let me put it that way. It just seemed like he didn’t have the ability to take ownership of a of a game down the stretch on a consistent basis. We saw it. We saw it every once once in a while, but it wasn’t like, you know, continually it’s dame time. It’s I keep I keep waiting for just, you know, more more game time. we need more game time. And it happened on two or three occasions, but um and and and still he averages 25 and seven assists, the most assistant points for a guy his age. He and LeBron, I think the only two. So he put up the numbers, but in terms of it translating Chris into actual wins for this team, T won 48 games. I know he was hurt on and off, but I don’t know your your your opinion on that, just where his game was at at this point in his career, what we saw in Milwaukee for two years. Well, it it kind of goes back to just my whole point about when we initially got Dane was how were each of them going to sacrifice to basically acquiesque or empowered to the the other, right? So late game situations you talk about MJ obviously the dynamic between who gets the last shot this and that. It’s like you’re some as a ball player as a top 75 guy even you know you’re in Giannis’s city you know he’s Mr. buck. He brought the championship. So, it’s like late game. It’s sort of, okay, let me take over or do I take over? We saw it in the season when Giannis would and in some press conferences where he would talk about Dame getting off in the closing time where he was like demonstrative and outgoing about, yes, I’m endorsing him to be Dame Dollar, you know, in the clutch. But I don’t think Dame ever fully embraced that role. And Jim, like when I look at this move stretching Lillard, like I feel like this and and I want your opinion on this. I feel like that this move is going to like psychologically unshackle Giannis and allow Giannis to be back to the best version of himself. He’s not playing next to a top 75 guy that’s a ball dominant, needs the rock in his hands. Now he’s going to have the rock the majority of the time and he has a team that’s built around him that I think fits in well with that type of system. your thoughts. It is interesting and to Marcus’s question and your point Chris like they they tried to on paper it was a great fit right you know the 63 point guard spacing out to 45 ft Giannis needs space but in practice it was it was hard like yeah Dame can space to 48 feet but that means you’re setting screens at the top of the three-point line like and by the time Giannis gets the ball on a pick and roll like the lot like it just there’s a lot of reasons I think for why it didn’t work. I think there was some bad timing involved. Obviously, there’s multiple head coaches. Um, and to Chris, your point, like the the dynamic of two all-time greats trying to make that work and figuring out each other when no one was healthy. We’re, you know, Chris Middleton was in this mix for a year and a half, right? And so, right, and now looking ahead forward, um, you know, we call in Milwaukee, we call Chris, Drew, and Giannis a big three, but in the scope of like the NBA, no one considered them like a big three, like the Heedles, right? Like Drew had not made an All-Star game in a decade. Chris had made three All-Star games, but criminally underrated, right? What that was, in my opinion, guys, was a team built around the best player, right, that that you had. And to Chris, to your point, I do think this decision and the way they are now flipping this team’s roster again is in that vein. It is in the vein of Indiana, of New York. Yeah. Of Oklahoma City, of some of these high Houston. None. I mean, you have Shay over here, but no one else has a Giannis, right? like they’re all complimentary players. Maybe you have two allstars, maybe it’s a couple allNBA guys, but let’s be real, guys. Like Chris wasn’t an all-star until 2018, right? Brooke never made an alldefensive team. Drew took again years. So Miles Turner might be an all-star this year playing a big fella, right? So I I think you’re right, like this decision helps them pivot and reboot the team in a in a different way. Um and and to your point, I do think it it can open up Giannis a little bit offensively. Uh because it’s just it they’re different guys, you know, they’re not better, whatever. They’re it’s different. And I think um going forward, I mean, clearly that’s the plan with what with what they’ve done. Yeah. And again, I want to be really really really sensitive to this because it’s, you know, not I don’t want to seem like I’m critical of of Dane, but just just evaluating kind of the impact he had with the Bucks. And I think a lot of it, as you guys have pointed out, was fit. Just that fit was never I mean, and and Chris, we were joking about it, I think earlier a couple of days ago, but how we got excited when we saw Dame and Giannis kind of talking to each other on the court and and and and look and looking like they were, you know, chemistry-wise, having a good time with each other. Look at look, I mean, the the body language, Jim, back to your term, the body language between these two seems to improve. It’s getting better, which so if it’s getting better, that means that it has to come from a place where it was not that impressive to begin with. So, it did get better, but you know, it was still a major work in progress. And then, oh man, the brutal Achilles injury, which we’ve just seen time and time again between Jason Tatum and Hallebertton and Dame. We got to we got to get somebody we got to we got to get an expert on this show to talk about about that at some point. What’s going on with that? I think it’s more than just, you know, wearing three/4er cut and low cut shoes. It’s it’s it’s it’s more going on than that. But the but the point is is that um in terms of the perfect storm of events, the way the way things, you know, the shakeddown of things, I mean, it works out for Dame as we talked about and then it works out for the Bucks because now we’re going to move on and segue into switch real Miles Turner. And Jim, you just talked about him. He’s had some seasons where he’s averaged 18 a game. He’s had some Stevens where he’s averaged 12 a game, you know, but and I say this in all honesty, Jim Pashki asked me, oh, seven, eight years ago, what do the Bucks need to be a championship team? I said without missing a beat, I said, Drew Holiday, and this is when Drew was dropping 23 a game down in New Orleans. He was just manhandling our guards when we played them the couple times year we played him. And I was just thinking to myself, boy, if we could get a guy like that as physical and defensive player who can still get buckets, we’re good. I was talking to I’m not sure it was Lisa Bington or somebody about kind of what what what we could use this year. And just kind of, you know, just just thinking out loud. I was like, boy, if we could get Miles Turner just in terms of being similar to Brooke, the three and and and and rim protecting but 10 year but a a decade younger. and and and and and so it’s here’s the here’s the here’s the question I want to ask you Jim it’s funny how Miles Turner was considered to be you know a defensive player of the year candidate one of the leaders in block shots and all this all this great shooter great this and that and now it just seems like the the the verbiage about Miles Turner they’re really downplaying they’re like well he’s not the second coming of you know I’m hearing all this negativity about Miles Turner man but I’m stoked I think This guy, as you just mentioned, playing alongside Giannis, I think he Well, he he doesn’t have Hallebertton to get him the ball. Who’s going to get him the ball? Who cares? You know, who cares who gets him the ball? He’s going to get the ball on that short roll around the 15t mark, picking rolls with Giannis, whatever, whatever they decide to do. But but it’s just it just amazes me, guys, just just the the the negativity that I’m hearing tossed Miles Turner’s direction like they’re trying to downplay the importance of this pickup by the Bucks. And I I just don’t see that. Yeah. I I mean, so we just talked a little bit about the lack of fit with Dane, right? Like it was on paper it seemed like it would work, but there was a projection there, right? And and it didn’t work out. I don’t think there’s no projection with Miles Turner. Like we we watched it with Brook Lopez who signed in Milwaukee as a 30-year-old center who quite frankly didn’t have I mean you guys will remember didn’t really have the defensive pedigree to that point that Miles has right and definitely had just started to become a stretch big at that point. Um so there’s no projection with Miles in terms of how he fits. He’s th 30 or about to 29 whatever just about to be. um a and 39% shooter from three. Um has gotten better each year. Uh is that rim protector where Giannis doesn’t have to play the five and he could get, you know, still be that roaming guy. But look, you know, Brooke, we we all love Brooke, but at 37, he was no longer able to stay on the floor against Miles Turner, against Carl Anthony Towns, against Kristoff Sporzing, guys who are still, you know, in the East, right? So, um, you know, the pivot had to happen and I, you know, Miles has led the league in blocks twice and I believe I I saw a stat, guys, where he was just second to Brooke in terms of like rejecting dunk attempts at the rim, you know. Um, there’s no projection of fit. Like it it we literally saw it, you know, now it’s just a younger and you could argue um not just younger, but now improving or a better version maybe of of what Brooke could be. And to your point, Marcus, of like get him the ball and all that stuff. Look, I I don’t know if it matters. Again, like Brook never there were days Brook’s worth 25, 26, right? Yeah. Um Miles is going to have those days. Uh sure. You know, he’ll hit five threes. There’ll be a day where, you know, Yan Look, Giannis is going to miss 10, 12, 15 games. Maybe in those games, Miles is your option, right? So, yeah, I’m not quite sure. I mean, I have some theories as to maybe why the Bucks get knocked for certain things, but I I in terms of a fit specifically, it’s I I mean, I don’t think there’s any projection. Great fit. Yeah, I think Turner’s an excellent fit. A younger Brooke, does a lot of the same things, but also has some uh highlevel pedigree just coming off a deep playoff run, finals appearance. I mean, that changes you as a player. A couple just a couple of percentages I wanted to also mention. unguarded threes last season. Miles Turner 41% on unguarded threes from a catch and shoot. On guarded threes, 36.5% from a catch and shoot. So, you know, pick your poison. You going to leave him open and you know, man, I don’t know. So, I think he’s a great he’s a great addition to the lineup. Yeah. And while we’re throwing out numbers, let me add a couple more to the mix. Doing my due diligence also. It’s a Johnson thing. We look up numbers, Jim, but but on the short roll. So, I’m looking up short rolls. Miles was number five in the league in terms of the volume of short rolls, 245, 90th percentile, but his points per chance on short rolls 1.2. His effective field goal percentage 61%. Brook in comparison, so miles points per chance, short rolls 1.2. Brooke was 789. And I was surprised that he wasn’t better in that area with the little push shots that he does and all that, but that’s like the 21st percentile. And then the other number that jumped out was uh the the effective field goal percentage. Miles at 61. Brook was 42%. Short roll field goal percentage 42 and that’s Yeah. you know, so so just looking at that in terms of shot making and I always I always think of Brook as being a really really solid shot maker from that area and and he is, but Miles Turner seems to be on a whole another level at least for for for the Pacers last year. My final point about the effect of Miles Turner on the Bucks offensively, right? If you watched Indiana this year and their offense, they do a lot of like spacing, ghost screening, just movement plays that take defense out the way to create space for offensive players. I think that that is going to be an underrated value that Miles Turner, aside from shooting percentages and everything we’re talking about, his ability to play and move and his understanding, it’s going to open up a lot of things for everybody on the Bucks offense. And lastly, Jim, before you respond, in terms of embracing his role as a screener, Miles was the set the fourth highest number of screens behind Rudy uh Vousvich and and and Jared Allen. And so he know, you know, so he knows he knows what he’s you watch, you watch tape of him, he’s setting picks on two and three and four times on one possession. He’s flipping it. He’s turning the other way. He’s going against somebody else. So I I just I just like that mindset that he brings to the Bucks at this point. Yeah. And and look, it’s look a I know AJ nothing but a number in a lot of ways, guys, but like it it matters in basketball. I know it matters in basketball. Like it’s And like Brooke Brooke was great. Yes. Screening for Dame and then like kicking out and flaring out and and Chris, he’s going to have so many miles is going to have so many catches, shoot wide open threes just like Brooke did. But Brooke wasn’t really the roller anymore. Like he wasn’t dive like that just wasn’t part of his game. Like he was asked to do a lot on both ends. I didn’t blame him necessarily. Sure. But um to to your point like there’s a difference between 29 and 36, 37, all those minutes, all that pounding. Um, and so yeah, guys, I I do think uh adding that into Chris’s point, the offense, and that’s a a bigger broader conversation maybe for for later in the year when we hear from Doc and what they’re going to try to do offensively, but I think that’s also part of this is in a certain lineup now, guys, like Giannis is the old dude. Giannis is the oldest guy potentially in a fiveman lineup. And that’s a huge difference just from end of the season just to February, right? So yeah, to all the numbers are right, but to Chris’s point also play style and all of that I think is is a big upgrade. And so we all know Brook Stanford guy. I’ve known him since he was what three four years old when Chris played against his older brother Alex in high school back in the day. Chris was at Montlair Prep and Alex is at Calbell Hall and Chris what’ you give him like 33 and 15 rebounds whatever it is. But I digress. Uh but but but but but so I’ve known Brook so so and I have as much respect for him man just you know we know Brooke Brook is one of the greatest guys to be around very very bright intelligent and to show you how smart he is he just signed as a free agent to be the backup to vit Zubac with the Clippers. So Brooke is smart. Brooke understands that at this so so even just that move within itself Jim tells me that Brooke probably knew that to fulfill that role as a 33 32 minute guy and you know do chase guys out of the do all the work they’re asking him to do. Brooke, I think, understands better than anybody that that it’s time to take on that next phase of development in your career, and that’s being a backup center as an NBA player. Yeah, that’s you’re that’s underrated part of this equation is is he would have come back here and probably started, right, if if other things were moved and and whatever in a different universe here. Um, but again, we’re talking about, yeah, those minutes probably can’t be there. You saw that at times this past year when he was pushed to 38 39 minutes. There was like a lingering effect of that, right? Doc talked about it. Um and so yeah, like he’s signed to he’s a backup and there’s nothing wrong with that for sure. Like he’ll start whatever games and he’ll he’ll be effective. But uh for sure guys, it it’s it’s an upgrade. And to Mark, as your point, I’m not I guess because Miles Turner is not an all-star yet um or or an alldefensive team member yet. Guys tend to get to those levels when they play next to 34. So that’s why I say yet. So I think maybe that’s maybe why it’s sort of not being understood or heralded, if you will, as as a major move. But I think for Milwaukee, it’s it’s definitely an upgrade. It is. For as good as Burke was, Miles is better now. and and that sets this team up obviously for for you know a good matchup between those two going forward. Well, when you say playing next to 34, what do you what are your reasons for that? Is it tangible because of the attention he attracts or is it more than that? Is it is it his persona of who he is, how hard how hard he how hard he plays? What what are you guys seeing with that? Yeah, I I mean, so for me, it’s it first of all, I think there there’s a a bigger spotlight. So, let’s be real. Drew, as Drew always said, right, the All-Star game is an entertainment product. I’m not an entertaining player, but like, you know, but he also made a bunch of first team alldefensive teams. He had he was a good defender, guys, but he wasn’t really getting that sort of love. Right. Right. Okay. Bledo first team all defense. Yeah, great point. Yeah, great point. So, none of them had those honors until they got to Milwaukee or in Chris’s case, the Bucks began to ascend, right? And so I do think there’s a spotlight with Giannis. It’s like, “Oh, look at what that dude’s doing.” Right. Okay. Um Okay. And and but then also playing next to him is is a real thing. Like you’re as a help defender, you guys know, maybe it’s not what it was when he won DPI, but when he turns that up, it’s still pretty pretty elite. And then now Mark, now Chris, I’d be love to hear your thoughts on the offensive part, like the play style. If we’re moving, we like the if the Bucks are moving to this like heliocentric or this sort of point Giannis kind of leaning into that and it’s a little more open, a little more free. It looks more like the the pace and space pacers. Um, you know, I is he going to average 20? Probably not. But if he’s around that 15 to 18 like and and two and a half blocks a game and the Bucks are are kind of doing their thing like suddenly it’s oh who’s checking that all-star box like Dame look guys Dame top 75 he never started an all-star game till he got to Milwaukee. Wow. I mean and that’s just a fan like and that yeah that’s a fan vote thing but that’s to the point of the numbers and the way that looks. So I I mean I think playing next to the big fella is you you get that with with being around him, playing with him. Jim, let me ask you this about Cuz we we wanted we expected a lot from Kyle Koosma last season. Had a had, you know, didn’t have a a great year. Admittedly wasn’t in the type of shape that he wanted to be in. What do you think next year looks like for Cous positionally and performance-wise? That’s a good question because I I know he he acknowledged right when he got to Milwaukee he was having a career worse season shooting and he just never found the shot right and so I think it was unfortunate for him where he comes in for Chris and while I think Doc and John after the trade tried to say hey you’re not Chris Middleton replacement you know part of a collective I don’t know you guys would know this as players like he’s replacing an all-time great for the franchise right like you were the dude who came in for for that guy. And so I don’t maybe that’s inherent. I don’t know. But he just never found a a rhythm. I I know the Bobby suspension, the Jericho injury, he was maybe miscast in some ways like as a as a big and yeah, at the end guys like it was it was hard to watch like you know the all zeros right in the playoffs. So going forward look some of it is be you which means it’s going to be better than it was. his career averages. Look, he’s not a 39% shooter, guys from three, but he’s better than what he was, right? And so, I think it’s how do you make him comfortable to me? Um, I haven’t talked to Doc about this. I don’t know how Kyle To me like the non Giannis minutes, like if Kyle’s rebounding and pushing and like I think that’s a good fit. Um, if he’s with Giannis, he’s got to get more comfortable with the catch and shoot, you know, and or or being more decisive playmaker because I do think he got caught in between at times like, do I shoot this? Do I put this on the deck and like go? So, I think a training camp a summer like I think maybe some of those questions could be answered this summer. Our guy Clint Parks, we know that that that Coos has been in the lab out at the men’s gym at UCLA every day working with one of the best skill development guys out there. So, he’s putting in the work. And I also think that Kuzz has got a comeback in the type of condition physically that would allow him to guard some of these defensive matchups that they kind of asked him to do a little bit cuz I think he was a little surprised that he some of the some of his assignments, you know, having to guard certain guys. So, he got to be in shape to do that. And if he can do that, I think everything else I think offense will fall into play. And then defensively, he’s bringing such a value. we won’t have that microscope on him because we know he’s he’s getting blocks, he’s making steals, he’s in the lane, he’s doing CS things on the energy perspective defensively. And then on the other end, knocking down shots, getting out in transition. Okay, that that’s great. That’s a plus, but don’t make it so we’re all expecting like you to be, you know, 17 a game, 18 a game, but and then you’re not really giving us anything on the defensive end. That’s my only thing. It’s like be ready to lock down. You mentioned Cuz replacing an all-time great, one of my favorites, Chris Middleton, and I can remember coming here 2014, 2015, whenever it was, and and and and assistant coach Tim Gurich, who I had a great relationship with in in Seattle when he worked with the Sonics, and he asked me to talk to Chris because he needs work with his confidence and he just doesn’t believe in himself. And you know, I watched him play a couple of times. I told G, you know, he’s fine. I mean, you know, I was I don’t not really a whole lot I need. He’s just quiet. He’s introspective, but you could tell he had a passion. You could tell he had the talent. And then he had a couple of games that year or the next year in Oklahoma City and against the Pacers like 33 and 36 back toback. I’ll never forget that. And when I saw that, I knew that we had something special. My question to you guys, Chris Middleton, number 22, rafter. He’ll be up there. Jerseyy’s retired. Brook Lopez, will he be in the Raptors? uh you know a year, two years after he’s done is that number 11. Seven years all-time leader in a bunch of different categories, top three or four in blocks and three-pointers and all those good stats. NBA champion. Is Brooke is this number going to be retired by the Milwaukee Bucks? Chris, it looks like you had a thought. I I don’t I I’ve seen this question. I seen it all over Twitter and I was just kind of like I didn’t have a feeling, Jim. I’m deferring to you. Yeah. So, I the buck went out you. No pun intended. Yeah. I I love this conversation though. Um Marcus, it this this is interesting. I mean, you you literally live this life, right, as as someone who’s who’s up there. It’s such an interesting conversation because, you know, there are a couple names up there who you you’d argue like as as like history has gone on, you’re like, should like their jerseys be up there? I don’t I don’t know. um in terms of what they did for the Bucks, right? Like Bob obviously probably great Hall of Famer and all time great person. Should his number be retired by the Milwaukee Bucks? Like that’s a legitimate question. Um so I think Bob Laneir, we’re talking Bob. Bob, you know, and and like Brian Wy, same thing, right? Like very very good player. Very good player. But yes, when we’re talking about like Marcus Johnson, Bob Dandridge, Kareem, Oscar, like it’s it’s a little different. Um I’ll say that. So Brooke is on that edge for me. Like I don’t like he’s he’s seven years is a it’s a good stretch, right? Drew was not here that long. Um but he’s also not a like so like he’s an all-time great in like a different kind of way. Like the championship changes a lot. And that’s my point, Jim. How much should r the ring weigh in getting your jersey retired and being a big part of that team? Yeah. Did he have a couple 30 Did he have a 30 point? I guess in somebody might Atlanta somebody dropped some big numbers when you know we really needed him to come through. He got a ring. I I guess like it’s so interesting. It’s a fun question. Um I mean clearly in Brooklyn they’re going to do it is the all-time leading scoreer there. Um which is such a fun trivia note. You know what I mean? Um yeah. And so I guess if you were the Bucks the easy way to maybe do some of that like Drew this g people talking about Drew too. You won a gold medal while with the Bucks. Yeah. Um but that’s a short window. And so do you just maybe celebrate the championship team in some other fashion, right? Where all those guys get their flowers. Maybe you’re not know everyone is sort of respected and appreciated, but you’re still sort of keeping a um a specialness, if you will. Like I look, I covered the Packers for a few guys. There’s there’s levels from a Packers Hall of Fame to that number being retired in Lambo Field, right? Like there’s there’s levels there and and they’ve set those bars and levels. So maybe that’s maybe that’s what uh Peter Fagan, we could put this on his lap. Next time you talk to Peter, you could ask him what uh Well, it’s like like the Hall of Fame. They’ll bring in teams sometimes like you know these great ladies teams or some undefeated team or whatever and that that that championship team of 2021 I believe. Yeah. I mean that would be Yeah. Okay. That that that and then that would include Pat Coneton who’s also um out of here after a great seven-year run. one of the most popular players Pat average I’ve forgotten he’d averaged 24 minutes a game in the championship year during the playoffs and some of the things that he he could and I think for the Bucks a guy like Pat and it reminds me of what the what with what what the Bucks did with with the late great and I’m going to get misty eye talking about him but Junior Bridgeman my one of my best friends in life who passed away a few months back but so Junior played for the Bucks his first seven or eight years six man of the year type numbers he was putting up got traded with me to the Clippers Don’t let me get started with that. And then went to Sacramento in another trade. But then at the very tail end of his career at 33 years old, the Bucks bought him back so he could retire as a Milwaukee Buck. I’d like to see Peter Fagan, who’s really close with Pat Coneton. Give some consideration when Pat’s ready to hang him up, whenever that is. But it’d be nice for Pat to, you know, finish out his career as a Milwaukee Bucks based on all the things that he has done for the community. Yeah. Yeah. Pat’s kind of a different look. I there’s no competition with like community involvement. Some guys want press for that stuff, some guys don’t. Everyone does their own thing. But I will say Pat and and his refurbishment of the basketball courts and Milwaukee public schools, Milwaukee County part like um other school like that’s a big deal, you know. Um and so like the community stuff was pretty forward facing. And to your point, uh Marcus, yeah, like I think um he’s it it it’s like Bobby in that way, right? where where like those are Milwaukee Hall of Famers. Yes. You know what I mean? Like like dudes who just can like walk into this town for as long and and have had, you know, a great impact uh on and off the court. So, you know what’s interesting is to your point about that like again my NFL days, NFL teams do that all the time. Like at the very end of stuff like it’s whether it’s ceremonial or maybe there is I know basketball is different. There’s limited roster spots. It’s guaranteed money. But uh to to that point, I think you know there’s probably room for stuff like that for certain people, certain organizations for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let’s talk about some of these these other moves that the the horse trader John the horse trader. She said a horse trader. The horse trader, man. He he he never ceases to amaze me just kind of pulling pulling these rabbits out of his behind the way he does, man. and and just really really impressed with that. But but Jim, which one of these and it’s hard to rank them and and it’s it’s a podcast question more than any heartfelt inquiry on my part. But but which one of these moves surprised Bobb’s back? Anybody coming back that surprises you? Gary Trent, KPJ, any of these moves, these guys coming back for another year caught you by surprise that you thought like, yeah, he’s going to he’s played himself out of out of the the amount of money that the Bucks are have available to offer him? Um, I don’t know if there was a surprise because I think the intent was there for John. And generally speaking, guys, right, like in his history, if if John is intentional about acquiring or resigning a player, they very rarely get away. Like, it happens. It’s business, right? Yeah. Um, but I I think if there’s a surprise, it would be how he started this pod was was Gary Trent. I think Gary had played his way to a a certain kind of deal um in free agency, but obviously the market it shook out the way it did and and he’s back on and look and I I think um the way this is set up and this goes the way the Bucks hope and and how I think it might go like he could resign again next summer and we’re talking about a different kind of level of salary etc. But I will say uh this summer Marcus it was probably you know Gary coming back on on you know whatever exception it is and and just sort of the the dollar value and it’s a raise but it’s not I think what a lot of people thought for for that production that two-way production for a 26 year old who really hadn’t been in the playoffs in a lot of years guys and and in really performed and I know it was a tough way to end but I mean that was some stones. Yeah. you know, Harry Trent. And so, like, to me, he showed so much. And I I will say Bobby wasn’t a surprise, but I think Bobby was important. Like, Giannis is the son, right? And so, but you need everything around that. And And look, Giannis does what he can and tries to play as much as he can, but he does miss double digit games, guys. Like, that’s what it is. And Bobby is such a great fit. Yeah. like culturally uh you know the the attitude and then on on the court Giannis misses games there’s 18 and 13 right right like it’s it’s it’ll help you mitigate the non Giannis minutes the nonianis games I think he’s a good fit for Miles as a backup five if that’s the case too so Gary would be the surprise I think Bobby was super important because if your your front court guy is your core like your four five your backup four five I think having that solidified is is very important getting Ryan Rollins at the number the bus got him. And from what he showed me last year, especially in the games he started where he played meaningful minutes, this guy, he has the defensive uh the metrics physically, the long arms, the quickness, and he’s also uh he could slide over. So, he has that personality as a basketball player. He can be on the rock or be off the rock. So, he has no problem with Giannis. I think long term, I mean, the this guy could end up, we can be looking in two or three years and potentially looking at a guy that be in the discussion for all defense. I if he’s given the minutes, that’s how I feel about him. I’m high on the guy. I think that that signing, that move is like a major sleeper. Do you think Rollins has the ability to be the Bucks long-term answer at PG, Jim? Man, that’s a that’s a good question. Um, especially because he’s not a traditional point guard, right? Like we think of point guard as like this sort of like ultimate distributor and and whatever and but the Bucks don’t really play like that. Not with Giannis when Chris was here, right? Like even Drew like Drew was never like that kind of point guard. So I I mean yeah he’s 23 24 not even 24. I mean he’s you know what a find there again for for John Horse and and the scouting staff to to find him. I mean, look, man. Look, Doc Do Doc takes a lot of heat, but playing a 23 year old two-way dude and finding out what Ryan was about, like there has Doc deserves his flowers for that. Uh, because that he easily could have said, “No, he’s two-way.” Like, yeah, you know, he’ll he’ll play later. Yeah. Or never. So, to see what Ryan was about and and the thing I like about him, and you guys could speak to this, too, he’s unafraid. Yeah. And AJ Green is unafraid. And Gary Trent Jr. showed me that. And obviously he had a more of a track record, but like those dudes like there’s something to that. And to your point, Chris, about long-term, he’s Yeah, he’s 23. Why not? Like we already know he can fit because we’ve seen it. There’s less of a projection there for Ryan or AJ Green coming up on extension or Gary bringing him back. like these guys like we we meaning the Bucks like if you saw you saw that and you’re like okay now you’re building off of what you already know as opposed to yeah there’s still a bet there’s maybe some may but it’s not like a a total well this this may kind of work. We don’t we don’t really know. Yeah. Well, I mean 19 games as a starter Ryan Rollins averaged 10 points a game. He had like a three consecutive careerhigh backto backto back games that was just fun to call, fun to watch, but also shot 45% from the three-point line, you know, and in 19 games as a starter, probably not not a high buy, but at least, you know, I would say probably three or four threes per game if I’m showing me something. Guess guess it off 45%. I mean, from the three-point line. So, and you couple that with the 610 wingspan, the defense, and then the the the the beauty of what you just said, just not afraid. And I saw that the first day of training camp out at UC Irvine in Orange County. I just who’s this dude? This guy’s going at Giannis, going at people. He’s, you know, taking taking shots in scrimmages. It’s scrimmages, but still, you know, he was just impressive right from day one. And so glad to see that. Now, you you talked about Gary Trent Jr. and the and the deal that he structured. It’s funny how free agency works. I mean, you’ve got the Solomon Hill years where Solomon had a solid season. I think walked away with like 15 million a year or something. You know that that’s my guy, Fairfax High School LA guy. But Gary Trent based on 41% from the three after a miserable start. I mean, he was down in the in the in the mid to to high 20s from the three-point line the first month or two and had some injury issues. He I later found out that I believe was was uh affected his shooting. But but why is that? What was it wasn’t him like saying I I want to sacrifice some money for the good of the Bucks, but the market what’s going on with the collective bargaining agreement. What’s going on out there where a guy like Gary Tread Jr. is not making more money than what he’s making based on how he finished the season and what he showed last year? Yeah, it’s pretty it’s pretty remarkable. Um and Gary said this from the beginning even last year signing a minimum better minimum at the time. um where he’s like the value and this is credit to him being the son of an NBA player, right? His dad being in the game and and and Gary just sort of having a a a bigger view or a you know an idea of how this business works and he’s like stats don’t matter. Value is different. It’s not just oh 41% 26 years old $20 million guy. Yeah. Right. Like it’s it’s it’s different now. And he’s like, you gota as a player now you have to find out how you create or reimagine your value. Um and and so I think Gary did a lot of that. Now what is not in his control is the market and unfortunately Brooklyn Nets had cap space and then Detroit kind of suddenly had some cap space. Um that was really about it. And guess what? The Brooklyn Nets are trying to tank. They’re not trying to give Gary Trent Jr. $15 million like and and the the Detroit Pistons like he probably was a fit there. Um but the way that stuff was set up again I don’t the market just there wasn’t a whole lot of just money because not to bore people but there’s a lot of there there are still a lot of contracts signed prior to the 23 CBA that are still kind of jamming things up for guys. Okay. you know, so I think once a lot of those deals start to fall off the books, um, be it at the end of this year going into next year, you’ll see more cap space, I think that’s why, you know, you see a little a lot of oneplus ones, a lot of player options for next summer because I think a lot more teams are going to have more money. And then, you know, when it comes to the Bucks, like look, they they they’ve handed out player options quite a bit in the last few years, and it’s worked out. They’ve retained Brook Lopez, Pat Coneton, Bobby Portoris to a degree. Chris Middleton was a higher level, but Chris was in that boat, right? You know, where where they’ve been able to exceed, you know, and kind of stay competitive with retaining their own guys. All right. Well, listen, man. It’s uh it’s been one heck of an off season so far. I mean, just anything else you see on the horizon if you think there’s going to be I think we’ve got maybe one or two. I know one roster spot, maybe another one depending on some situations. Is that for bogey or what the Bucks? You have a sense on what the Bucks are going to do with Bogey? Yeah, it’s so Mil well he he’s playing summer league as we as we record this. Um Milt Newton, assistant GM, met with us draft night and said, you know, we’re we’re going to decide, you know, does he go to Europe for a year, play with Mega Basket, uh you know, he’s on the Serbian national team, we’ll play with Eurob Basket, I’m guessing, uh this summer as well. Um you know, kind of decide there. Look, on one hand, the math of it is look, they’ve got Giannis uh they’ve got Miles Turner and Dame like that money counts. you kind of need some end of low salary guys to kind of make that work. Uh but no, I I think they’re probably still figuring that out, guys. Um all indications are that, you know, if he goes to Europe, that opens up a couple spots, they can sign a couple more veteran minimums and and round that out. Um who that could be. Again, it’s what are you looking for, right? You know, is Ryan your guy? Uh Ryan and Kevin Porter Jr., are those your point guards? Are you looking for another veteran? Yeah. kind of minimum that to buttress that a little bit, give you a little a little more of a presence there. I mean, so that stuff’s out there and but typically those deals aren’t usually done until, you know, a little later in the summer because you kind of have the ability to to figure that out. Well, I I just found out that Bogleub translates into the kiss of God. The kiss of God. His parents were religious and so yes, he is the embodiment of the kiss of God. So that’s that’s a beautiful beautiful name. I unusual name. I I had to find out kind of where it came from. And Bo Boole, the kiss of God. That’s really cool. It’s really cool. Look, Jim, we’re going to let you go, man. Thank you so much for joining us on here district, man. A whole lot of stuff whole lot of stuff happening with the Bucks and appreciate you breaking it down and giving us some clarity, man. And uh you know, we’ll see what happens over the next we’ll see what happens in summer league and what kind of shakes out after that. But, uh, man, I’m just excited about, uh, the job that Buck’s management has done and the roster construction, bringing back the guys they brought back, adding Miles to I mean, God, I mean, it just things fell into place, man. Better than better than I imagined. So, we thank you for coming by and and giving us some clarity on that, man. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Thank you both for the invite again. I always appreciate it. All right, Jim. Oh, Jim Ozarks, we appreciate you. This has been a Bucks Plus audio production.

After a busy week in the NBA, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel beat reporter Jim Owczarski joins Kris & Marques Johnson on Hear District to break down all the Milwaukee Bucks’ moves. After sharing their initial reactions to the team’s latest moves, they dive into Damian Lillard’s Bucks tenure & how both sides have a bright path forward. They dissect Myles Turner’s fit with Giannis and how this pairing can help unlock the Bucks’ potential on both sides of the floor. The trio bids farewell to Brook Lopez & Pat Connaughton, pondering how the championship team will be honored and if No. 11 should be retired. Jim shares his insights on Bobby Portis’ extension, Gary Trent Jr.’s market and how these signings solidified an impactful summer for Milwaukee’s rotation.

0:00 — Intro
2:02 — First Reactions
4:30 — Thank You, Dame
16:59 — Welcome, Myles Turner
25:20 — Thank You, Brook
27:05 — Giannis Unlocking Teammates
29:48 — Projecting Kuzma Forward
33:30 — Retiring No. 11?
37:02 — Thank You, Pat
39:12 — Retaining Core Free-Agents
41:27 — Bobby Portis Extension
42:17 — Re-signing Ryan Rollins
46:15 — Free-Agent Market
48:16 — Final Roster Spots

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