What are reasonable Miami Heat expectations? (Alf reappears) | Five on the Floor

What are reasonable Miami Heat expectations? (Alf reappears) | Five on the Floor

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Use the code 5 FIB legal in the state of Florida where many other things are not. Put down five bucks, you get $50 to play right away. Play WNBA, MLB as we’re getting ready for NFL, NBA, and NHL again. Check it out. prize.com. Use the code fi. And now in today’s throwback episode nation. Yeah. Mercy go down the [ __ ] gang. Y five on the floor. Ride for my dogs. Where’s the thing? You can check the score. Hustle hard. Couple stars. Bubble frog. Got all y’all seen the block stop one hand and pap have the guts. We’re here to bring the heat. Y’all can hang it up. Welcome to Five on the Floor, a daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan Skolnick, Greg Sander, Alex Toledo, Brady Hawk, and others from the Five Reason Sports Network. Also, make sure to subscribe to Off the Floor for the most heat anywhere. Feel like we all should be sipping a drink. Bring back that famous photo. Today’s floor plan. I’m Ethan Skolake. Follow me, Ethan Jol. I got five in sports. I got Alex Toledo. He still has decided to call himself Tropical Blanket. Follow him there. And we got Alon Sydney, who no longer lives in the 954. He’s in the 404, but he still calls himself the 954. It’s still the Heat Twitter president, even though he hasn’t held that role for many years. Alf from Miami Heatbeat and Parts Unknown. We appreciate you joining us today. And you’re on mute. That’s a good way to start. Sorry. Look at that. Just like old times. No, I’m uh I’m actually Piston’s Twitter president now. So Pistons Twitter president. Why is that? Why? Why did that happen? Gotta follow my boy Duncan. Pistons lifer. I I understand. Uh okay, let’s start there and we’ll go on from there. The topic of this episode, by the way, it’s never going to stay here, but it is what is the reasonable expectation for this season and the two seasons that follow. Uh but let’s start with Dunk. Um, I kind of feel like you and Shawn Rochester were like the two biggest Duncan Robinson supporters out there. Uh, how did you feel? I mean, what was what was the immediate emotion uh when Dunk finally moved on? He’s no longer still here. I can’t say that at media day this year. I mean, ju Yeah, he was probably looking forward to that comment this year. No, just on a, you know, a basketball standpoint, it was time. Um, you know, I’ve talked about this on Heat Beat plenty of times. Duncan Robinson became a luxury they could no longer afford, right? Like Duncan Robinson is a really good piece on a good team. On a bad team, he’s just like a liability. He’s just a, you know, basically a compiler. Like he just doesn’t do what they need him to do. Not and even his contract, people talk about his contract. His contract wasn’t really that bad for a guy who started at shooting guard for most of his five years. Like that’s a good contract, but it just basketball-wise, they needed more than what Duncan could offer. they had way too many holes to just have a specialist on their roster, especially one that was taking up that many minutes. Um, but as far as a transaction, I thought it was terrible. I mean, because you had to somehow somehow with one of these guys, Gabe, Caleb, Max, Duncan, you had to get something for one of them. Like, for God’s sake, one of them. Like, we did get that second round pick for Max. I’m sorry. We don’t forget that one. That’s right. Oh, and we got Bonaduchio, whatever his name is. Um, like it’s just to me it’s just, you know, and listen, I I know we’re not going to go on to front go into the front office on this episode, but No, no, we can we can go anywhere, Al. I got I got nowhere. Once again, mismanagement of an asset, right? Like best three-point shooter in the history of your franchise and you get Fabuchi. Like, what are we doing here? like it’s it doesn’t make any sense. Um I just feel like on that Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead, Alex. I’m sorry. Go ahead. I just feel on that side of it, they fumbled. No, it’s a quick it’s a quick like add-on to to Alf’s point of like, you know, they they they developed all these undrafted guys, Caleb, Max, Gabe, Duncan, and like that that second round pick that they got in the Max signing trade, they flipped, I believe, as a part of the Jimmy trade, and then they uh I mean, uh got one for the the Thomas Bryant trade, right? And then flipped that one for DaVon. So, in a weird way, like in a weird way, they ended up all with DaVon and Proteio, right? Like, if you really want to No, no, no. Do not give them Dave. Don’t give them Davon because that’s a Thomas Bryant thing you’re trying you’re doing. But they they couldn’t have they couldn’t have gotten DaVon without that first one from the Max. But either way, your point is right. I’m with the point overall, but like if we’re going to do the the the sip the Kool-Aid stuff, that’s an easy one there that’s been missed. That’s an easy angle there that we haven’t even covered yet. Okay. So, but you said something else that I want to follow on because you use the term if you’re going to be a bad team and before you came on, you characterized this sort of as that. Now, they just acquired um a 20 plus point scorer on very high efficiency for really, no disrespect to Kyle Anderson, uh slow-mo or K Love for really nothing. I mean that that that is I mean we agree that particular deal I I won’t throw it into the Jimmy trade for this purposes of this and get Alex all upset again but for the for the purposes of this podcast that deal just on its own good deal right you agree it’s a good deal oh fantastic move like no-brainer right um okay so are they still a bad are they still a bad team then do you still think this is a bad team okay yes you don’t you don’t add Norm Powell to a team that got historically skull drugged by the Cavs last year and say, “Well, now we’re a four seed.” Like, I like Norman Powell. It’s a fantastic move. Like, it’s one It’s like It’s one of those moves that would have happened last year and another team would have done and we would have looked around and said that’s all it took to get Norman Powell, right? We finally made one of those moves. Like, so this move, the DaVon Mitchell move, fantastic moves. And you know when that would have been a really good move? When you had Jimmy Butler. That would have been a great time to make moves like that. We never did that. We’re just like, we have Cayla Martin. What do we need Norm Powell for? Like, so all these great moves that they’re doing that DaVon fantastic move. What was it? PJ Tucker and a second rounder. Yeah. And they were never keeping PJ anyway. But yeah. Yeah. And then you you got Norm Pow for remember we weren’t even going to keep slow-mo. Like I don’t remember what happened ended up keeping him. Um and thank god he’s off the team because Spo has to play him. If he’s there, Spo’s gonna play slow-mo, right? So, thank God like we we just took that tool out of uh Spo’s belt. But like these are fantastic moves, but if you’re if you’re telling if if you’re saying these moves are going to make this team a contender, like get out of here. Like what are we talking about? Okay. So, how much of And I’ll let us jump in on this, but but I know from following you obviously and knowing you that you respect Spo, okay, but you all and there you are allowed to do this. I think fans don’t understand this. you are allowed to respect the coach and also disagree with a lot of the things that he does. It seems like a a a premium frustration of yours with Spo is overplaying certain guys uh sort of going old habits. I know Terry was our big issue last year. I still don’t understand any of that. Um do you think Spo will actually like if they’re going to go young like this is the idea. I know the organization wants to go young, they want to lean into their young players. I’ve been told that you can see it for the majority of it. Norm Powell, yes, he’s 32, but he’s in the last year of his contract. He doesn’t have a ton of wear on him. Uh, and I don’t think he’s going to take away minutes necessarily from guys who were going to pop this year. And getting Kyle Anderson off the roster, with all due respect, keeps him from playing ahead of Yoic, which was one of my concerns that first time Nico made a mistake, you’re going to see Kyle Anderson for the next 10 games. Do you think Spo will actually lean young? Do you think he he plays young players? It’s not true that he doesn’t, but do you think he can actually lean as a roster young and let them play through mistakes? See, okay, so I always have this difference with young, right? Like um like some people when they say lean young, they want to play Isaiah Stevens and Kash Johnson 40 minutes a game. Like calm down. Like that ain’t the young I’m talking about. I’m talking about guys like where if Haime is on the team, you got to keep playing them, right? Cuz what I mean what are you do what are you playing for? Uh Yoic especially. Um, so and and that like you said with the Norm Powell thing, like Norm doesn’t really get in the way of the guys that we really want to see. Like if you want to make the the the the case for him getting in the way of Casper, I’m that’s all I’m going to call him cuz he he needs to make a couple more buckets before I learn his name. Um, one for 15. Your name is Casper. Uh, so yeah, Nor might get in the way of some Casper minutes, but that dude ain’t ready to play in the NBA anyway. All right, go go go chill in Sou Falls for a little bit, man. We’re doing We’re doing this again. We’re doing this again. We’re We’re writing him off. When have I not been When have I been wrong? When have I been wrong? Okay. He’s right, Alex, by the way. He’s He’s right on this. I think I think this is half a season in Sou Falls. This is going to be a lot of trick. Oh, no. No, hold on. Hold on. I’m not disagreeing that he’s going to be in su I I’m with you. I I literally said it on the last podcast. I’m like Casper like with the with with the Norm Pow trade with like what’s taking place with the fact that they got like another guy that Spo is inevitably going to play in Fonteio. the fact that there are other young players again not at his position but in general just taking up spots you know in the rotation I don’t think Casper is gonna play much this year now it none of those it shouldn’t be because of Terry freaking Rosier right like that’s an obvious one but just in general like um you added a guy again Norman is not a point guard obviously but you added a guy who’s going to play somewhere around 30 minutes per game right you already have another guy in hero playing 30 plus minutes per game’s going to play 25 plus minutes per game uh just just off off of that alone no matter who you think who else you think is going to be in the rotation there in the back court uh and at the wing like I just think there’s not left much left for Casper there and then I think the other the other way that the only other way that you can nitpick this the trade because the trade itself is obviously awesome value-wise is like if you if you went into this thinking okay this is the year that they do the soft tank and end up in the top 10 lottery odds and maybe they move up maybe they don’t but this is the year for that that’s they they could still up like end up there but the odds of like ending up for the top 10 pick. Obviously, they’re not going to do that, though. They’re not They’re not going to do that, right? Like, we know that I I understand it may be what you want, but you know, they’re not that I’m not advocating for that. That’s not my point. My point is that like if you look at the standings from last year and you look at all the teams that weren’t in the play and are in the playoffs, all these teams that were dealing with injuries and like are projected to be back in there now that he could have could have stumbled into that, not not done that, not done anything drastic, not shut down Bam and Tyler for half the year like people are suggesting. I’m not talking about anything like that. I’m not talking about any sort of red button. I’m talking about them just being average to below average, stumbling into a top 10 lottery odds because there are a lot of good teams in the NBA. And when you just look at like the really bad teams once you knock off, you know, the Hornets, the Wizards, the Jazz, etc., etc., it’s like, wait, that’s only like four or five teams, right? Like there’s other teams. I mean, the Nets obviously, but like you know, from there, like the Heat could could have easily ended up with a top 10 pick. Now, I’m not saying that’s what they were going to do. That’s what they were not going to do, but that that is the one like nitpick. It’s like if you had any hope of that happening, you know, the chances of that just went down because they added a really good player without giving up anything of of notice. I mean, of not. To me, Norm P Norm Powell doesn’t really change that conversation too much. They to me, they still exist in the playin. Okay. And they can quite they could quite like realistically lose a play even though the greatest playing tournament team of all time. No, I’m with you. I don’t think they’re going to be a four seed or anything. I just feel like if you let’s say Hero like Hero had a you know um an awesome like season last year health-wise, right? If he just goes back to, you know, he misses a chunk of games. But that’s what I’m saying. But but Ale Alex, just to break in here, I like So I don’t think we can’t I’m not saying they shouldn’t have made this move. I’m not making I’m saying but we can’t bring up a place where we say we say never never go make an opport you know we want you to make opportunistic moves to make the team better without having to give up assets and while collecting assets and at the same time then we make a move or they make a move and then it’s like well okay but now this takes you out of potentially slipping behind these teams. I I don’t think we can do that because we know again that’s not going to be their direction and if they were if they were close to a high lottery pick Alex they would trade for someone at the deadline next year to get them out of it. you know that like that’s that’s that’s just the direction that they’re going to go. They don’t they don’t believe in it and I almost think they believe to a certain degree and again this is organizational philosophy that’s almost beneath them. They don’t want to be on the lottery stage. They don’t like it. It’s not who they are. Okay. And the Spurs have been willing to do it at times and still be one of the top five teams. The Heat are one of those teams also. They they didn’t bottom out and tank either. You know what I mean? Like I just think it this the the the conversation between like what they should do in these transition years sometimes becomes a little bit too binary which like well yeah the heat are not going I know the heat are not going to tank. Nobody’s advocating for the heat to tank. I’m not advocating for the heat to tank. I’m just trying to give out that perspective about like what the power trade like how it affects this transition era that they’re clearly in right now. You know what I mean? Like it’s it’s like I knew that they were going to go this way. Like we all had talked about like a Demar Rosen type of trade. Like I’m not surprised by it’s a great trade. Again, I’m just saying like it it it goes to show like this very much a heat move with like the way that they’re building, you know what I mean? In this in my in my opinion, this still fits into a soft reset, right? Because I don’t think they got appreciably better, right? And then they’re still talking about doing things like Yeah. And like they didn’t give up any assets, which still fits into the soft rebuild. They’re doing they’re talking about doing things like trading Wiggins, and they won’t move off of Wiggins without a first round pick, which I am completely aligned on. like that is the right mentality because by the deadline somebody’s gonna be desperate for a two-way guy, right? So, if they don’t want to give it up now, somebody will give it up by the deadline, right? And even even Rosier’s contract may have value at the deadline just as a contract as an as an expiring and then also and look, you gave up uh slow-mo and Kevin Love for uh for Norm. If by the deadline this team is middling around a 9 10 8 seed, you move Norm. Is Norm not a great trade asset as well? So to me, it works in other ways too. If you decide another guy like if isn’t worth the extension, you know what I mean? Like again, it’s a great trade for that for a lot of reason. So now that’s the one. Hold that because that’s going to be part two of this episode of the Yes. Okay. Yeah. Cuz larger picture now we’re talking about something completely. All right. So let So So let let’s do it. Let’s get into larger picture on the other side of this. Before we do, want to tell you about Lynette, one of our favorite people, one of our uh our big fans here at Five of the Floor. I’m not sure why, but she is. 954-5818800. Homeowners insurance, life insurance, especially car insurance. You got a bad driving record, reach out to her right away. She’s based in Lauder Hill, uh, sort of northwest Broward County, but can service the entire area. Just tell her that we sent you and then get out of the way, too, because again, I don’t know that that’s great, but uh, again, you can find her as well on our Discord, on off the floor, on playback. She follows the podcast as well when we go live. Reach out to her directly in the chat. Say, “Hey, I need car insurance.” And she’ll have it for you the next day. 954-5818800. Again, it’s insurance byl.com. Two N’s and two T’s. All right. So, let’s get to the the bigger uh question here. Okay. BAM has been extended. It’s done. Uh let me ask you this question before we get to the next one. In retrospect, they gave BAM the extension early. If you recall, um they they did it because he wanted to do it that way. Took away about $13 million they could have spent that summer. What’s done is done. Okay. He’s the captain uh and obviously he’s been a pillar in the community and a great representative of the organization. Before we get to the next guy, do you have any regrets looking back uh or or should the organization have any regrets about maxing him? Absolutely not. Okay. Absolutely not. Just defensive side of the floor, he is a super max player. Okay. Like, and then offensively, he gives you enough that you can’t like he’s not Rudy Goar where you can play him off the floor in the fourth quarter. I’ve never seen Bam benched in any situation for any reason, right? He is good enough off offensively and he and to me he is still the best defender in the NBA because of everything he does on the floor. So yeah, to me super match guy. Whatever you give him, he he’s a like you said, pillar of the community, but he’s a foundation of a championship team and I’m not afraid to say that. Okay, so let’s get to the next one and the same question I asked Tobin. All right. Tyler Herro clearly wants to be maxm maxed like he he I mean by and credit to him again for playing the 75 games putting the fragile comment using it as fuel everything that he did last season and we’ve given him his flowers about all that. Okay. But now you pivot to this season and he’s not demanding the extension. Now that’s also good. You’re not dealing with a Jimmy like distraction like he dealt with last year. But he also said it’s going to cost him more next season. So it’s clear where his head’s at. Okay. And if he wants to play for that, then that could benefit the Heat also if he’s going to play at his highest possible level. With that said, what is the highest number that you would go to him with per season? Me? That’s a bad question to ask me. No, that’s why I’m asking you because I know you have a different response to go ahead. No, we take all here 30. Okay. I would listen and here that’s what he’s making now. Exactly. And I you cannot [ __ ] your cap with Tyler Herro, right? Like he on on a he’s another one who’s a little bit of a luxury, right? They need so much. They need so so much. And giving Tyler Herro 45 million, 50 million, god forbid, like puts you in a place where you can’t improve this team. Like listen, we can keep talking about cap space all we want, but that is such an antiquated way of team building at this point because nobody hits free agency. What you think Miles Turner is gonna turn this thing around, right? Like the value in Tyler Herro right now in my opinion before he gets extended because I don’t think you can afford to extend him at 40 $50 million. see what you can get in draft capital for him because the currency for you to actually improve this team in a significant way nowadays I mean we all wa we’re all watching you need first round picks and outside of Wiggins that might get you one the only people that on this team that are are going to get you first rounders um maybe Norm at the deadline which I doubt that even Tyler Herro might get you one or two Bam might get you three or four I’m not trading Bam for any season, but if I was going to do something, it would be get some draft capital for Tyler before you have to give him extension. And no shade to Tyler. I just don’t think Bam and Tyler as your top two paid players is a is a championship contending team. I just don’t. All right. All right. So, I’m going to let Alex jump in a second, but I I’m in agreement with you in general about that. Okay. About that you can’t have the top two guys making $100 million. You’re not going anywhere. uh particularly because it doesn’t look like the increases are going to be as large as maybe was thought before. Um with that said, I I would go to him with I’ve said like something in the range of what’s a 25% raise, which is like three for 110. That that’s that would be my I think Tobin yesterday said three for 100. I don’t think he’s going to take either. Now looking at his archetype, there’s been a lot of conversations about that. All of those guys have been traded this off seasonason. Jordan P, Anthony Simons has been traded once and now Boston wants to do it again. Desmond Bane has been traded. He commanded more, but I think people make too much of the four first round picks because one of it was really three. They had to take take back money that you know otherwise KCP and and all the rest of this. Okay. So, if you’re telling me if a team came to you and said, “We’re going to give you matching salary and one first for Tyler, you don’t have to deal with the extension with him anymore.” But matching salary is not elite talent. You’re getting rotation players. Would you do it for one first round? Yes, I’m doing it. I’m doing like if I can get that one because here’s the thing. I’m looking at holistically. If I can get one for Wiggins, one for Tyler, I think we have three tradables now. You put yourself in a position where an Anthony Edwards decides to shake loose in the next year, year and a half, you are finally in position with with good contracts and a and a treasure trove of draft picks to make that really big move that they’ve been try that they’ve been trying to make for nickels and dimes the last couple couple years. Like they this they keep getting into these conversations and they keep getting outbid. Why? Not because nobody wants to play in Miami or everybody hates Pat, which is these nonsense narratives that fly around. Yes. It’s because they don’t have the draft capital. And are we gonna keep running this stupid nonsense hamster wheel where we just never amass any draft capital like this? Extend Tyler Herro. Don’t get any draft picks for him. Anthony Edwards shakes loose. You’re here. I have two first round picks in Yoic. Like it’s it’s laughable. You just you’re never going to be in these conversations and you’re never going to trade hero for a superstar either. So get that BS out of your head. I almost I almost cursed. I’m sorry. I thought I was I thought we allow it. We We allow it occasionally. Okay. I thought I was on hangover time. I didn’t want Well, we have fun sec. Brian Brian can’t go three words without cursing. All right, Alex, your thoughts on what what Alf said. So, it’s really interesting because I don’t think they’re going to extend him anytime soon. Um not when he becomes eligible. And it kind of it was kind of obvious just by everything that was said um after the season was over not only by him but by Pat where it’s like yeah he’s cool like he’s basically saying yeah he’s not giving us any pressure about it right now like he doesn’t mind pushing that off till next summer and Tyler said that himself and you know like I just think they’re there’s going to end up being like I think this season is going to be somewhat of an evaluation year for him in a sense not all the way right because I’m sure they have like a price point for like what they’d be willing to give him but I think They they now that they have Norm, right? They’re they’re going to be like, “Hey, let’s see like how much of that production you can keep up with uh another guy here who’s going to score a lot for us. Let’s see how you look like if they if like let’s say they’re in the same situation. They’re in they’re in the seventh or eighth seed first round uh playoff series. Uh does anything change, right? Like are you are we just getting the same Tyler where you’re getting one great game and then uh the rest are just not great because they’re they’re they’re taking him out of his comfort spots and he’s just not good.” Like I I think it’ll be like they’re going to have that in mind, but in general, like I’m sure they have an idea of of what they’d be willing to give him. And my kind of like I think what uh what like the the ones you were saying there, Ethan, is kind of like the sweet spot for what I think is like a good price for the Heat. But I’m with you. He’s not going to I don’t think he’s going to accept that. Now, maybe like they start off like trying to get him pay as much as he can. I don’t there’s no doubt in my mind that the Heat are not going to pay him 50 mil per season. You know what I mean? I don’t believe what’s the definition of ins what’s the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over or having you guys on a pod with me like we used to do those they’re not going to pay him 50 mil man but here’s the thing so you’ve made the decision already you’re not giving him this the extension that he wants you’re going to make him run it run it a prove it year have we not seen this movie before did we not Yeah but he’s not he’s not as petulant as he’s not as petulant as the I’m not making the I’m just trying to say like what I think the heater are going to do. I’m not against the right price. But here’s the problem with that. Make a decision. You ain’t pay, you know, you ain’t paying him the money he wants. I’ve been saying this for so long, man. Make a decision. Pick a direction. Like that’s the infuriating thing. They I’ve been saying this since last summer, man. They did this nonsense with Jimmy last year. either give the man the extension and if if like it’s like when you’re making a big financial decision in your personal life, if you have any hesitancy, walk away from the deal. Walk away from Tyler if you don’t think he’s worth the money. If you didn’t think Jimmy cuz they were never going to give Jimmy that money. I don’t know about one pick though. That’s where I kind of like one pick just kind of feels like a like if you’re willing to settle for a pick for if if they get if if they get just one pick, you know you know what the reaction that’s going to be as well. Well, if you had moved Tyler earlier, if you hadn’t held on to him until this time, you know what that’s going to be. I I’m not I’m not arguing with you on the premise, and you’re right. Okay. In anything, relationships, anything else, if you’re hesitating, you’re screwed, right? Like, that’s the thing. Like, if you if you have a little doubt, your intuition says it’s not the right decision, it’s probably not. I don’t know. Here’s my thing about it, okay? He just had a season, his most efficient season. He played the most games that he’s ever played. It didn’t really translate to winning. Although I don’t blame him for it in this case because the roster was not very good and everything else that was going on. Although the idea that was in Barry’s story about well we need to see the roster whole again which we knew that was coming out. I that one yes I know we all had the same reaction to that. They lost by 92 points the last two games. I saw full training camp. We knew the full training camp [ __ ] Yeah I know. And this time I don’t even get to go to the Bahamas. I got to watch it in Bokeh. But look here here’s here’s the thing. He there’s nothing he can really do at this point. He’s proven to be healthy. Okay, he just made an all-star team. I don’t think there’s anything he can there’s there’s huge ways that he can grow to prove he’s worth what they may not think he’s worth right now. In other words, I I like what is it? Have another 75game season and then do something in the playoffs. I don’t know that this team gets to the playoffs. So, I’m with you in the fact that we probably have all the information now. like they probably have all the information now on him. With Jimmy, I think there was a little bit of question because most people I think especially driven people would have reacted to the Heat’s posture on that with I’m going to get on the court and play my ass off and prove to them, okay, and I’m going to earn the money. And he I think a lot of people would have done that. Now, a lot of people, but NBA players, like what are we talking about here? Come on. maybe not NBA superstars like and listen I was on the organ I was mostly on the organization side I really wish they would have picked a direction um I really turned on Jimmy when he turned on his teammates and coaching staff but if I’m Jimmy Butler and I’ve carried your ass for how many years dragged Caleb Martin and Max to finals appearances you’re going to tell me to prove my worth? Yeah. Like at that point I’m out. And meanwhile, Tyler wasn’t there for literally most of those runs. And that and that’s what I’m saying. Like I think they haven’t won a they haven’t u they haven’t closed out a playoff series with Tyler on the floor since like 21 or 22. Like he hadn’t been there for any of this. Well, yeah, cuz Yeah, because he hurt himself in the 22 run, too. Yeah, that’s true. 22. So, but so so the thing is like, oh, let’s not act like Tyler isn’t a fully formed player at this point. Is he going to get better on defense? Come on. Like, let’s be honest with ourselves, right? Right. I I think his improvement now is is strictly in terms of making reads, dealing with doubles on offense, but I think defensively he’s maxed out. I I I do agree with that. I don’t think there’s there’s not a lot of room there physically for him to grow to be much better than he is. He compete. Here’s the thing about him, and I give him credit for this. He competes. It’s not a competition issue with him. It’s he’s not hard in like he’s trying, okay? It’s just there are certain limitations there. Now, offensively, he has a skill set that he keeps refining. I think he can get incrementally better there. Um, even better than he was last season. But you’re right, the defensive part of it, and my thing is this, and we had when we had Mike Wallace on, he talked about this, and I’m totally on. The NBA is finally pushing back against the idea that just because you’re a good player who’s eligible for a match max. You should get the max. This is the big problem. And then teams are now looking at it. They’re looking at the CJ McCullum monstrosity CBA and they’re like, we can’t pay a third guy that, right? So I if you’re going to pay two guys that they have to be the guys who can get you over the top. And I think we’ve seen this already with with Bam and Tyler. And that’s the other reason why I think that the Norm Powell acquisition, it gives them leverage, honestly. But it also creates a weird situation this year where if Norm plays really well, it probably cuts Tyler’s price tag for them, but yet you’re expecting these two guys to log a lot of the minutes uh in the back court uh together. All right. I want to let you go here certain point. So we’ll we’ll go with this. Okay, the organization as a whole over 30 years, it’s hard to argue that any more than three or four NBA organizations have had more success. Okay, in terms of making the playoffs are right there with basically any team LeBron’s played on is included, but uh you’re talking about, you know, San Antonio, which has had some dips, the Lakers certain degree, obviously Golden State had its run, Boston, there’s not a lot. Okay. And then the Heat are right there. Do they need major changes in direction in the front office? understanding that this has been a collaborative consensus process for a while. Most Heat fans don’t seem to recognize that, but Nick has had final say since 2011 and they’ve made decisions together. Do they need Are you okay with the current group? We know what the current group is. It’s it’s it’s it’s Pat, it’s Mickey, it’s Nick, it’s Zo, it’s Andy, it’s Adam. This is the core. Do they need different voices in there? What’s your view on it? um like and we’ve I mean I learned this from you when we were doing the show uh years ago and I’ve I’ve said it a thousand times like this idea that Pat pat like everyone wants to blame Pat like you like you just said it’s a group of people to brain trust and what I would say to that is it feels like there’s too many cooks in the kitchen right this team has been at its best when they had a sing singular maniacal driven maniacal focus on winning right and That was Pat. That was Pat. It felt like it felt like everything emanated from Pat. And then like literally since like maybe the Mike Miller move. There’s been a lot of things that happened that don’t feel like Pat anymore. And we’ve been going along this trend for year like a decade now where it doesn’t feel like it’s all Pat. And a lot of these decisions don’t aren’t congruous. Right. So I feel like what’s happening is there’s too many different ideas of where we want to go. Some people want a youth movement. Some people want veterans. And it’s this it’s this dual timeline [ __ ] that doesn’t work. Like it just does it it hasn’t panned out. And we can we can say they’ve been a mediocre franchise for three years. That finals run is is like it was so much fun, but I feel like it it it’s it led to the biggest delusion I’ve ever seen around this team. Right. This and 30 and 11 are are the two most delusional uh phases of They got Bam out of 30 and 11. They they they didn’t cheat the basketball gods and they got Bam, Al. Yes. And now they have Casper who can’t get by me. Um but but like it does. So it’s from that time from the time they lost to the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals, this has been a playing team. And none of the things that they’ve done since that since the Eastern Conference Finals against the Boston Celtics have can you say this has been a masterful stroke by a franchise? I mean Josh Richardson Thomas Bryant one off season like literally since to until this Davon trade everything has been has felt really really halfhazard. It felt disconnected. Like then you look at the roster it’s so disjointed and weird. You got slow-mo, but you said you Yovic is untouchable, but he’s he’s losing minutes to slow-mo. Alec Burks is out there. We put Haime at the end of the bench to the point people were making crazy rumors. Like, it doesn’t like it doesn’t make any sense. Like so to me when I see something like that like in what in in my job my career history like when I see an organization a business anything that lacks clear direction lacks clear focus this is the kind of disjointed mess you get you get into. So at some point somebody’s vision has to be the main vision. If if if Pat’s on some win now stuff but he’s getting win later assets like or he’s getting no win assets like hey go out and get Kevin Durant but you know don’t pay like I I feel like Pat Riley used to just go get the guy like there wasn’t this line in the sand all the time like but now he I feel like he approaches and I don’t know if it’s just him but how how much of that is ju just just to be fair on that how much of that is the new CBA that doesn’t allow them to do business the They used to having to trade several picks for the star instead of acquiring them in free agency. Okay. But then you have to make then adjust. Everyone else is adjusting. No, I’m with you. I’m with you, man. And then you walk into these negotiations with one hand behind behind your back because you’ve already made half the roster untouchable. Who do you think has done if you were It’s hard to separate because a lot of it is consensus. But if if we were and and I know there’s like there’s some on Twitter and I know we’re friendly with some of them are like, “Oh, make put Adam Simon in charge because he’s done the best job with his particular piece.” And I’m like, well, just cuz you make great sushi rolls doesn’t mean that you should be running the restaurant. Right. Exactly. Okay. But but it does seem Okay. And I know Casper, please. It’s been three games. Let’s give it a little bit of time. He needs half a season at Sou Falls. Okay. And then we’ll figure it out after that. All right. Touch the ball in summer league is what he needs to do. Well, that would be that would be nice. Also, point guard prospect the ball. You tried to make Jay Rich and Max into point guards. I remember. I was there. But Alex point prospect a freaking ball, dude. Yeah. every time he gets Gorage wasn’t a regular. Gordon Dragage wasn’t a regular until he was 26. I just I just want to I I I want to I want to back off on a little bit of this. But every time they give him, by the way, every time they give him the ball, he throws it to the other team. So just Well, he’s a pick and roll point guard and they don’t have anybody screen for him. And then they have Kell Wear walking into screens with the two too cool for school [ __ ] I’m just Can we get a rep? We have gone completely off the rails here. Okay, just just to get it back because my point was not really about Casper. My my point here, my my point here was about my point here was about Adam Simon has gotten a lot of credit for his drafting which has looked pretty good. Like and I by the way that’s not a oneman decision either. That’s also consensus. It’s just that he’s leading the group that’s scouting. There’s they have lots of other people out there who are doing the work on that. But you had a really good first year. We’ll see if he can rebound this year. Wear showed promise in the first year. Looks like he they may have drafted him. Uh, you know, they might have gotten a steal there. We’ll see again how he develops. Okay. Yoic, I I know we like Yoic. Okay. Again, it’s like finding a consistent role for him, but he may end up exceeding his draft position. Bam and Tyler have s whatever you want to say about either of them have far exceeded their draft positions. Okay. So, if that’s the case, it does seem to me like what they are best at now, and I’m not saying it’s just Adam. I’m not saying put him in charge of the whole thing because again sushi rolls don’t make the restaurant but it does seem like going young makes sense for a team that is good at finding young players right like that you can make that case correct and that’s not what that’s not been Pat’s philosophy over the years so it is a little bit different yeah because you have a front office who you know we talk about the team being on dual timelines or separate timelines you have a front office that’s on separate timelines you have Nick Harrison who wants to own this team for another 30 years and is looking at the future and then you have Pat Riley who’s like I need to win a championship in the next like in the next two three four years or you know it could be it could be a really poor ending to my story right so that’s the we have there’s a dichotomy in the front office and so at some point like I said I don’t care which direction you choose right if you decide to go after the vets and be the Golden State Warriors of last year I’m riding with you because I feel like you have you have a plan you decide to go fully young I’m riding with you because you have a It’s just this non-committal nonsense that is happening right now and it’s just like all these guys you just named where Haime and people I I like wear but people are a lot higher on wear than I am. Um yeah me too. Haime um who yo yo I like Yoic but people are higher on him. These are high functioning high level role players which you need in today’s NBA right you absolutely do but that’s what they are. So the thing is, so if you want to go all in, let’s stop let’s stop making these guys untouchable, right? Like or or then abandon the Kevin Durant pursuits and stick to what you’re good at and go young. It got it has to be one or the other, right? And if you want to keep going for Wales every few years, you got to build up some draft assets. Every once in a while, you got to trade for a first round pick, a second round pick. Um that to me, this is the whole problem, Ethan. It’s it is just it feels like this m like the idea of trading a first round pick for Terry Rosier because somebody somewhere thought they were a Terry Rosier away from contending that year. They sucked. They were terrible. Like they weren’t a good team. Holding on to Caleb Martin for what? Why? Cuz you’re going to need them in the playoffs. They almost paid so much money, man. Yeah, they got saved. You know me, I’m not one to bring up contracts, but they literally like they they got so lucky with the Caleb. I brought up Max and Gabe. I brought up Max and Gabe earlier, but I I don’t really have a lot of pro because you were going for it still and you had Max and Gabe. It didn’t make sense to just jettison those guys. But since then, like the Caleb one still dro I was saying like I mean he looked like Scotty Pippen in the Easter conference finals. You could have got something for him. But like they just didn’t. And like they they ran Michaela Martin. They traded for Terry Rosier. Like these are not competent franchise moves, right? Like I don’t Well, that’s why that that’s why the the Norm Powell move to me and I again I can’t escape from the Rosier thing because I was in favor of at the time too, but I think it’s partly because they just wanted new. But but I but I I will I will say this on it. Okay, the Norm Powell move to me is a shift in the sense of this is a player who has gotten better but got his numbers contributing to winning on what was a pretty good team in part because of him. And that’s very different from Rosier. And I I just I think the last people were making that he was the allstar in his team, not Harden. Like that was right. And and and to you look at his numbers before he had an injury prior to the All-Star break, like his numbers were elite. And I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but I’m saying, okay, I have more confidence in that translating than I should have had in somebody stat padding on Charlotte. Like, and I think that’s the lesson to be learned here is like just ignore the Lutter and Riot numbers. Like that that’s it. Like they don’t they don’t matter. And the Heat have never really gone for that kind of player before. I mean, that that was that was different. Ricky Davis is the only one I can come up with, honestly. I don’t think Terry like being bad means that you should never trade for a a player on a bad team because like PJ Washington never trade from someone from Charlotte. Never trade a first round pick was in the finals helping the Mavs. Like I don’t we don’t we don’t got the ball wasn’t in his hands all the time. That’s the thing. And honestly I don’t even care about bringing in but it’s paying a first round pick for him in the day and age where first round picks are gold bro. Like that’s the part that drives me nuts. They held on to that like they didn’t want to trade picks for years throughout the Jimmy era, but then like Terry was the guy that they ended up finally budging on. That’s what I really It just feels like a kind of, you know, an inconsistency there with their You’re all you’re all going to be wrong when Terry wins most improved player this year. All right, I got to let you go. We’re 41 minutes. 42 minutes out. We haven’t even had any scotch or whatever it is. Um, appreciate you joining me on a postgame show. I’m I’m I’ll be all I’ll find you on one of those summer league postgame after Casper gets his second female. Um, Alex, appreciate it. Insurancebylanette.com prize picks, use the code fiv. We’ll see elf again. Goodbye, everybody. Thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the five reason sports network. After all, someone needs to listen to my dad.

Where are the Miami Heat headed, this season and beyond? Ethan Skolnick and Alex Toledo welcome back former co-host Alphonse Sidney (@ALF954 of Miami Heat Beat) for his latest opinions.

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