The St. Louis Cardinals Are Nearing The Point Of No Return

The St. Louis Cardinals Are Nearing The Point Of No Return

After a pathetic series in Arizona, the Cardinals are nearing the point of no return on the 2025 season without a massive turnaround. And now it looks like it’s going to be too late for the Cardinals to contend. We’ll talk about it coming up on Behave Daily. [Music] What’s going on everyone and welcome in to this edition of Bshave Daily. Brendan Schaer with you. It is Monday, July 21st, 2025. The Cardinals are fading fast. It’s a series sweep at the Arizona Diamondbacks that finished up on Sunday with a 5 to3 loss. And from there, you can see over the edge of that cliff. It is fast approaching and there may not be anything the Cardinals can do to stop it. This series coming up. It starts on Monday night in Colorado facing the worst team in baseball and one of the worst teams that MLB has ever seen in the Colorado Rockies. If it’s not a series sweep, I don’t know that there’s anything to talk about anymore with this Cardinals season. They’ve fallen behind the Reds. They’re now fourth in the division standings. They’re eight and a half games behind the division leaders, which is a tie now between the Cubs and the Brewers. The Brewers have won 10 in a row. Yeah, that’s a team that’s serious about trying to make a push when it matters the most ahead of this trade deadline. Milwaukee is making a charge 10 in a row to improve to 59 and 40. The Cardinals are eight and a half games off that pace. And in the wild card race, they are trailing the third place wildard team right now, the Padres, by three and a half games. It’s just a number that keeps growing and growing. Cardinals have lost seven of their past 10. It’s been a miserable month of July. I want to talk about some of the latest news pertaining to the team. We’re we’re circling the drain on this notion of a trade deadline for the next 10 days or so. It’s kind of all we’re going to be talking about. It really feels like the Cardinals in a blink of an eye have gone from maybe they’ll buy at worst they’ll hold and stand patent see what they’ve got to now you go well what’s the point? It’s it would be malpractice not to see what you can get for some of these short-term assets. And maybe maybe it goes beyond that. Maybe the asset management extends into well, you know, you might not ever have a better time than now to trade a Brendan Donovan. Well, you know, if Lars Newar can get off the injured list, you might still get something for him. Two years of team control. I mean, it has flipped like a switch from on to off. The race was on. Now, it seemingly for the Cardinals is off. So, we’ll talk about those big overarching topics. But before we do that, I want to talk about this week today. I mean, this series against the Rockies has to be a three-game sweep or the Cardinals are going nowhere fast. And when you look at the way this series lines up, I don’t necessarily think they’re sweeping anybody in the league right now, including the Rockies. It would have to be just a wholesale turnaround. The Rockies are actually hotter over their past 10 than the Cardinals. They’ve won four of their past 10. The Cardinals have won just three. You would think, well, Matthew Liberator gets to go for you. No. And look, I’m not putting a lot of heat on the team for this decision. I think it was a decision that had to be made at some point in time. And they’re going to manage the workload right now of Matthew Liberator a little bit. And I think this was something that needed to happen regardless of the standings, regardless of the recent stretch because he is at 100 innings right now. He threw just 86 last year. It’s been a few years since he’s been up to the point in innings where he’s heading. And so the Cardinals are just skipping a start for him. As long as that’s all it is, I just think it’s a strategic time to do it because you get the all-star break, you add another, you know, that ends up being a really nice respit for Matthew Liberator and we’ll see if it ends up helping him down the stretch. Maintaining his health is the big thing. But that would be true whether the Cardinals were tied for first or eight and a half games out. They cannot sacrifice the long-term health of Matthew Liberator. But the way they’re going to line this up, people are going to get what they want with Michael McGrevy joining the rotation. If he has a good outing in Colorado, I don’t think he can ever leave it. If he gets beat up, then it’s maybe a different conversation. But McGrevy’s going to be in there taking the spot of Libertore, though. It’s going to be Fetty on Tuesday. Palante circles back for Wednesday in Denver. That is not a one, two, three right now. That that makes you think the Cardinals are putting their best foot forward, but they just don’t. I mean, the starting pitching has cratered in the month of July. So, it’s not really even Sunny Gray obviously struggling over the weekend. You don’t have that spot in your rotation where you go, “Here we go. Now we’re starting to hit our stride.” It’s just not a thing at this point for the Cardinals. So, they’re going to try it with McGrevy, Fetty, and Palante. And they’ve somehow got to turn that into a sweep. And if they don’t, I think you really have to consider very strongly that this is a sellown, at least to the point of those short-term assets heading out the door. Ryan Hley, I know it’s not been his best year, but I am telling you they’re not going to resign this guy. As much as I would like to see him around longterm, it’s just not going to happen. I promise you, it’s not in consideration. So, look, you get what you can for him. I’ll say today, the Cardinals have to trade Ryan Helley. Period. They have to. You sweep the Rockies, they still have to trade Ryan Helley because as much as I do think you get a little worse if you trade him, you also might open up some doors that you didn’t really know what was behind him. What if Gordon Grace was thrust into a a bigger role and takes the ball and runs with it? What if, you know, they they they decide to trade either Steven Matz or Phil Eton as well? Whoever’s got value, if they don’t have a contract for next year and you can get around a no trade clause, you trade them. All of them. Because honestly, the guys we’re talking about, good players, but at at replaceable positions where you can’t really expect to have relievers come out of the the Memphis shuttle and produce like Philon or Ryan Hley. But stranger things have happened at that pos. If there’s one position where you can get lucky for two months and have it happen, it’s that one. And if there’s one position on the team right now that’s less important, I’m not seeing it. It’s relief pitching because you’re not even getting to a point in the game where that becomes relevant lately for the Cardinals. They’re not scoring enough runs and they’re sure as hell not pitching well enough in the starting rotation to have these games in the balance at the end to where Philon and Ryan Hley are relevant pieces. So look, the it’ll eb and flow. it’ll come back around where the Cardinals are going to need some late inning relievers to win some games. But right now, it’s just hard to see the logic behind anything other than a fullscale selloff of players that aren’t going to be on your team next year. And earlier in the year, we might have thought with Helsley, well, the qualifying offer is a nice avenue to at least recoup a draft pick. they can’t give him a qualifying offer because I’m not sure the further this goes along with Helsley just looking more human than what we normally are used to seeing from him. I’m not sure that that’s a contract offer that makes sense. So again, I’m not saying it would be to just give up on the season. That’s what it would look like from the outside, but I would point back to the Tigers of last year that that managed to catch fire after doing exactly that and trading off good players at the deadline. But you do it because it’s asset management. And look, if there’s an element of this where and and I saw the report by Katie Woo. She stated that uh Jordan Walker would not be traded before the deadline, which I agree with because I think it’s selling an asset at a low point. Maybe not the lowest point because it could always go lower. We could eventually find out that Jordan Walker is not an MLB player and he’s just never going to be. But I if if we’re going to find that out at some point in time, I think you need to find it out with him wearing a Cardinal uniform because that is just that that one’s a bridge too far. If you’re talking about letting a guy go somewhere else and being revitalized, um the Cardinals are hiring smart people beneath the surface and some somebody in that organization’s got to help Jordan Walker get it figured out. And if they’re not going to figure it out, then maybe nobody will. But I just don’t think his trade value right now is at a point where it you’re doing anything other than Dylan Carlsoning him for Shawn Armstrong last year. And look, at that point it was clear like Carlson just wasn’t going to be anything. And so you had to do it. Just just jettison the player and and move on. I’m not to the point with Jordan Walker where I’m willing to do that and let somebody else benefit. So I’ll be stubborn about that one. It sounds like the Cardinals are going to do that as well. However, I Heim Bloom needs to be as integral, if not more integral than John Mosak during this trade deadline if it is a sell deadline. Otherwise, Bill Dit and the way that he has he has authorized this season to play out is failing as the owner of the Cardinals because John Mo can can do a sell deadline. I mean, we saw him do it in 2023, but you have got to be including Heinloom in each and every one of these conversations. I would go as far as to say just let him really do it. Give Mo the credit. It doesn’t matter. But it needs to be Him Bloom actively involved. And like it hasn’t bothered me to this point. I’ve been understanding of the way they wanted to to approach this season. But when you get into a conversation where you’re talking about selling off of the deadline, it absolutely has to be a different lens through which you view this. And it’s got to be Heim Bloom being very, very involved. His opinions have to matter. His opinions have to count. And honestly, he should be the tiebreaker on any decisions. That’s my take. If it’s going to be a sell deadline, could you still have a deadline where you trade guys like whether it’s Donovan, whether it’s Newar, whether it’s Berles, Herrera, I mean, come up with a number of names. I’m not advocating for trading these guys individually, but if you did a deadline where you sold guys that had team control because you’re getting guys with team control back, but you’re just shaking up the roster, great. I’m for it. I’m not specifically for Gorman is another example. I’m not specifically saying here’s the guys that need to go. That is Heim Blooms to decide though. That’s his decision. Don’t let those types of trade happen, trades happen, excuse me, without Heim Bloom’s input. That’s my stance on that. And if they are really just letting John Mosaic run a deadline here and Heiml Bloom is over in the corner just twiddling his thumbs waiting, that is ridiculous. I’m not saying that is or isn’t the case. I’m just saying for the sake of getting it out there at some point that’s going to become more of a topic of conversation. Hey, how much influence did Him have over this deadline? If it’s not ample influence, then it’s a mistake. Look at this Cardinals series coming up against the Rockies as we continue here on Bshave Daily. Make sure you guys hit that subscribe button on YouTube. Apparently, it’s going to be an interesting 10 days to talk about the Cardinals and then thereafter seeing what the the roster may look like, the form it may take. Let me know if you agree or disagree with me though about this idea that hey, I’m still for the Cardinals trying to win as many games as they can, but you do it within the construct of trading away guys that have value if they’re not going to be on the team next year. That just makes sense. They’re not close enough to do it any other way. All right, when it comes to Liberator, I want to circle back to this. 100 innings on the year, 86 last year. He was around like 125 I want to say 126 in 2023 between the big leagues and AAA and I think he was even closer to 150 the year before that. So getting him back toward 150 160 I think is a reasonable number this year but it has to come you know with with with some careful handling on the way there and this makes sense to do it this way for the time being and it gives you another opportunity for McGrevy who look has not looked good in Memphis so you know if he was knocking on the door the last couple of weeks a little bit more firmly then maybe this would be a different conversation but I still think it’s the right call what it means though is that Eric Fetti is going to start at force field. Good gravy. Is that going to be interesting? And Palante, same thing for Wednesday. I mean, he has struggled recently as well. I’m reading this though from Katy Woo. This is what I wanted to get into. There is an internal desire to keep McGrevy in the rotation after this turn. Though the organization is not yet sure how to configure that a six-man rotation is not under consideration at this time. The Cardinals are shopping starting pitcher Eric Fetty and will continue to do so regardless of whether they buy or sell. I can tell you how to configure it. I mean, my goodness. This is not ripping on Katie’s reporting. She’s probably spot on. Not probably. She is. I’m sure she is. How is the organization not sure how to configure it? I guess that could mean which one of your underperforming pitchers do you jettison, but you’ve got a plethora of options. It’s not as though you’ve got five guys clinging to a spot and McGrevy just can’t crack his way in. That’s not the case anymore. Maybe that was the case in May. It is not the case in July. Fetty, if he doesn’t pitch well Tuesday, it should be his last start. The the idea that the Cardinals are clinging to this status quo and it’s a status quo that’s gotten them nowhere, right? I get it got you somewhere earlier in the season. Where are you now? What have you done for me lately? Don’t wait two or three turns too late in the rotation to make a decision. It’s not even a bold decision anymore. I know the Cardinals have historically operated that they don’t get rid of veteran players and and they wait longer than than anybody else thinks they need to before they go, okay, we got to do the obvious thing that that’s kind of where it is right now with Fetty. I know he was respectable in his last outing, four and two/3s, three earned runs, but that felt like in that moment the best you are going to get from him. Maybe he surprises and does well on Tuesday against the Rockies. But this idea that you’re clinging, waiting weeks and weeks of the month of July just hoping that some team will take him off your hands, is it to save money or do you actually believe you’re getting a premium prospect or a a even a moderately worthwhile prospect in exchange for Eric Fetty? I think it is absolutely heinous the way that the Cardinals and John Mosa have allowed for this fetty situation to loom over the roster in the organizational structure for almost a full month during the most important month of the season because you’re trying to figure it out for the deadline instead of moving him out of the way and saying, “Hey, it didn’t work out. He gave us some good starts, but man, he just doesn’t have it right now. We’re going to go with McGrevy and then we’re going to see what we’ve got to determine whether or not an additional move needs to be made in late July to shore up this rotation and put our level best out there on the field every 5 days. Instead, they’re going, “Well, we could let this play out for three more weeks.” Talking about like pre-de. That’s kind of the attitude. We could let this play out for three weeks up to the deadline and maybe somebody will get desperate enough to take Fetty and we won’t have to pay him the rest of the salary that we owe him. If I’m wrong, then, you know, shame on me and we’ll we’ll figure that out in due time. But that’s my read. It’s more about the money than any realistic belief that they’re going to get a prospect for him. Shopping Eric Fetty. How about you shop him to either the injured list, which would tank all of his value, so what would be the point? Or just just cut ties. Cut ties if you have to give him the opportunity without his salary tied to him. If there’s a a team out there that wants him to pitch down the stretch for them, great. He can go sign a free agent contract. The Cardinals are basing their entire organization around this one. And there’s more going on than this, right? Liberator needs a little bit of a breather. And so that is what has created this situation, right? Because McGrevy’s starting tonight, but it’s not in exchange for Eric Fetty. So that’s part of it. The lack of depth down below. Taka Roi’s on the IIL. Tinks on the IIL. Quinn Matthews hasn’t been as efficient recently. You know, it’s all catching up to the Cardinals. And it’s why at the beginning of the season, I said, “You cannot be serious telling me that they should trade Eric Fetty, that they should DFA Michaels, that they should get rid of Steven Mats.” Like this idea that the Cardinals were just flush with all of these options in the rotation as far as depth goes, was not the case. And for a while, they got away with it. They got away with guys overperforming what you would expect them to do. Nicholas was really solid for a while. Fetti was really solid for a while. You know, hit and miss at times, but the numbers overall told a pretty good story as of mid to late June. But it’s changed and we’ve been a month into this where guys are are not performing the same. And the calendar is different. And look, that’s what’s disappointing about it because now the Cardinals can sit here and say, John Mole can sit here and say, well, you know, we’re two games above 500, whatever it is. We’re not really in the race anymore like we were. But that’s because you wasted three weeks, close to three weeks. And by the time this series against the Rockies ends, it will have been three weeks because fetty pitching in Chicago against the Cubs. I mean, you could argue as far back as the 6th of July that that should not have happened. But man, they they have waited to where now, sure, because you didn’t say, “Let’s make a move. Let’s go. And look, they had the answer. I’m not saying McGrevy would have been good in place of Fetty for those three weeks. But if they had done it, we could at least say they tried. They could tell their fans, “We tried and we did the most we could do without mortgaging our future. We didn’t want to trade for a pitcher on the market in in late June or early July because we just don’t want to give up that prospect capital. We have a long-term plan that we are adhering to.” Fine. But you cannot tell me that Eric Fetty is the long-term plan and like stringing this out for the month of July was a big part of that. That’s what’s disappointing because they have bungled the entire situation and it has impacted probably team morale when you think about the way they’ve been losing recently. It’s it’s human nature to go, man, well, what chance do we have when this is what we’re running out in the rotation? They should be above that as an offense, as a lineup, but the lineup is injured as well, so that’s part of the lack of production recently offensively, but I think that’s I mean, they set the tone from the top down of the organization. John Mosak has done so, and he doesn’t like when the media is mean to him, but Mo, you haven’t done your level best this year to put the Cardinals in position to take advantage of the really strong first half or so that they had when the going got tough. your moment to act. I feel John Mosak missed the boat on that moment to act. He’s It’s his final year and he never did adapt to say, “All right, all the criticisms about me, I think people are mean. I don’t think they’re fair.” That’s fine. I hate when it gets personal because it shouldn’t have to be that way. But the adaptation was not made to make a move a moment too soon and potentially risk, you know, Eric Fetty catching on somewhere else and making the Cardinals look foolish to to not make a move a moment too soon because the Cardinals know what was going on with Fetty. I feel that they I feel that they have have had a handle and to be able to say, “Hey, this is not likely to turn back around. there are some factors here that we’re not going to be able to change rather than make more of a bold decision and do it a little bit early and say, “Wow, man, Eric Fetty, I mean, look at look at teams like look at teams like the Brewers, man, with Cavali. They’re like, hey, this is we’re going to we’re going to make a replacement here. He’s pitched, okay, but we’re going to make a move here. Oh, he doesn’t like that. He doesn’t want to move to the bullpen. Okay, he’s he’s a White Sock. Done. bold decision- making from a from an executive. You see Eric Fetty start to slide. You know what the peripheral numbers are and I was in support of of riding through that riding the storm out. When you have a guy whose output is exceeding what you peripherally could expect it to be. Hey man, maybe it’s the defense. Maybe our defense is just that good. I am cool with like the rosecolored glasses in those moments. But when it fades and fades fast sharply for a reason and they don’t do anything about it, that’s disappointing to me and it’s disappointing to the fan base, I’m sure, because it’s the wrong message to send to Cardinal fans. You have been trying to figure out this attendance thing and like you can’t blame the fans for it. It’s just been the product has been lackluster for a few years and you’ve got some exciting elements on this roster. Right now, a lot of injuries and attrition is is maybe putting a a damper on that, but there was there was enough here that if you would have infused a little bit of life into it around the 4th of July instead of, you know, just kind of sitting on your hands and hoping it would maybe just return to we were getting kind of lucky with Fetty earlier, getting kind of lucky with Michael earlier. man, it’s gone the other way and they did. They stood by and let it happen. So now it’s to a point where yeah, you almost have to sell some of these short-term assets. But I would contend it didn’t have to be this way. And that’s what’s disappointing about the way that the the front office and John Mosak’s office has handled it. If that’s too harsh, Mo, sorry, but I it would be disingenuous for me to keep doing podcasts and writing about the Cardinals and not talking about this because it’s the season, man. I have maintained that it’s valuable to try and cling to a status where you could get a third wild card and maybe end up with some home playoff games at Bush. Is it a World Series contending team? Not really. Stranger Things have happened, but not really. But it was worth, I think, infusing a little bit of life into so that you could tell the fan base, hey, when we exceeded some expectations, we struck at the right time to really try to continue to ride that wave and give you a product to be proud of, and you’re going to be even more proud of the changes we’re making behind the scenes to to move it forward. Is it because Mo’s not going to be a part of what’s moving forward that has caused him to just be a little bit apathetic toward what’s happening now? I don’t know. I cannot put my finger on why, especially if he still does have the reigns. If it’s not Heim Bloom influencing things behind the scenes, which I don’t believe it is, all the more reason for Moto want to put his mark on this final season. But it looks like the Cardinals are due to go out with a whimper. I hope all of this is bluster that proves to be foolish in retrospect because the Cardinals go out and handle a pathetically historically bad Rockies team this week and then they’re back to five games over and they’re back to maybe getting a little healthier and you know maybe new comes back later this week and you start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Fetty out pitches what I expect. McGrevy you know locks it in and performs well at Korsfield. Palante finds a fix to his recent struggles and they come up with a sweep that you’re not expecting and suddenly it’s right back on the on the track. Maybe the Brewers cool down. Maybe you go, “Hey, Padres’s are coming to town. You’ve got every opportunity to sweep the Rockies and then take it to San Diego and suddenly you’re in a wild card spot.” So, it can change on a dime. But, man, the frustration that’s out there from Cardinals fans, if you have if you even have it, if it hasn’t just turned to apathy, it’s valid. I think the Cardinals have bungled this month and to come out of the trade deadline, excuse me, to come out of the All-Star break like they did in Arizona. There is not one thing for you to be excited about as a baseball fan from that series. And so, you know, there’s not a there’s just nothing. This is all defensible. I’m not saying anything that’s that’s breaking news here. So, take it or leave it, but that’s my stance. The Cardinals need to sweep the Rockies or they are going nowhere fast. And and if they don’t sweep the Rockies, you almost just have to even if you do sweep them, then I’ll say kick the can down to San Diego and see what what that series looks like. But if you don’t sweep the Rockies, what are we doing here? It’s not a team that you can project to turn it around. And like it was looking for a while like a team that had the makings and had the pieces. Yes, they have been hampered by injuries that have all come up at the same time. And that’s unfortunate, but it is what it is. You’re going to play this season once and then you’re going to move on to, you know, kind of the foundation of what the retool has produced. You you gained clarity on some players this year hopefully and and Heimble makes three trades in the offseason like he needs to to shake the roster up. I don’t care if they’re good trades, bad trades, if they get them right, they get them wrong. You change the roster significantly so it doesn’t get stale and stagnant if this year does not finish the way that you want it to. I believe that that is what should happen. Usher in a new era. You eat some money if you have to do it. If Aronado is not going to be longterm here because the production right now suggests he’s really fallen off, then you you cut ties and you move on. You make bold decisions, the ones that this front office has not yet been able to make. Let me know if I am off base or if there’s something to it as we evaluate where the Cardinals are right now on Monday, July 21st, 2025. That’s going to do it for this edition of the show. needed to get the rant out there and let y’all listen to it before Monday night’s game. But let me know your thoughts and we’ll continue to discuss things here on Bshave Daily. I’ll be on the STL Sports Central postgame show tonight with Ethan Hannerford. So you can check us out there on YouTube live right after the conclusion of Cardinals Rockies with Michael McGrevy getting the spot start. That’s going to do it for this edition of the show. Appreciate you guys greatly for always tuning in and we’ll talk to you next time on Be Shafe Daily. Peace.

Brenden Schaeffer discusses the St. Louis Cardinals nearing the point of no return on their hopes for the 2025 season. Even with lackluster pitching lined up for this week in Denver, anything less than a sweep of the Rockies should signal a full-scale sell-off of the short-term expiring assets.

We discuss news of a rotation change with Michael McGreevy pitching Monday, plus share our angst for how John Mozeliak has bungled the past three weeks to turn the Cardinals into de facto sellers.

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