10 TRADES Phoenix Suns UNLOCKED After Ducking 2nd Apron
James Jones is gone. Mike Benhoer is gone. Kevin Durant is gone. Bradley Beal is gone. Thank God there’s no more changes and we don’t have to do another trade machine Tuesday. Right. Right, Gerald. Heat. Heat. You thought we were done with Trade Machine Tuesdays? You’re wrong. Psychos and sickos unite for another Trade Machine Tuesday edition of PHNX Suns coming to you live from Studio K presented by Circle K. Join the inner circle for free by downloading the Circle K app. Today, terms conditions apply at participating locations and we’re all participating today. The whole crew is back. I’m Eric. That’s Gerald. We got Stephen and the juice man back behind the Mac making all of the magic happen. Shout out to the freckled mom. But we missed you and we missed trade machine Tuesday. We have 10 trades the Phoenix Suns have unlocked now that they are under the second apron. Of course, this goes alongside Gerald’s article over at gophx.com. But before we dive into it, some housekeeping. Hit the like button. Hit the subscribe button if you’re listening on audio. Five star reviews go a long way. And if you’re watching on TV, hi. Don’t change the channel. Thank you all for being here. Uh Gerald, they thought we were done. They said you can’t do another trade machine Tuesday, and now we’re proving the doubters wrong. They underestimated how much I hate myself. No, that was the tagline after you watched every single turnover for the Phoenix Suns in one season. Yeah, that one was that one was worse. We can we can do a trade machine Tuesday every now and then, especially because a peak behind the curtain. Steve and I were talking about this the other day. the Suns now that they are waving and stretching Bradley Beal and have ducked beneath those aprons. They’ve freed up a whole new level of flexibility. So, it’s kind of like having to relearn how trade rules work again under the new CBA because before they were very limited in what they could do. But, uh, Stephen, are you excited to jump into some Suns trades today? Tired. Tired side. Tired. Yes, I do think there’s maybe not an immediate future, but I think there are some things that we can get into on today’s episode that might be relevant for the team going forward. Yeah, and honestly, I wouldn’t blame anybody if they didn’t want to make any massive changes to the roster. And realistically, some of these trades we’ll go through today, Gerald, you just can’t see the Suns making right now. And maybe partially through the season, we can revisit some of these. And some of them do feel a little bit more realistic. Obviously Brett Seagull joined us last week talking about Grayson on Royce O’Neal. Of course, we’ll talk mainly about those two, but we do have some that involve a a more key piece to the Suns roster. Is there any disclaimers? I know you’re Mr. Disclaimer when it comes to Trade Machine. Is there anything you want to get off your chest before we dive into these 10 trades? Yeah, as always, I say this before every Trade Machine. This is not about what I want the Suns to do or even necessarily what I think they should do. It’s mostly kind of just a thought exercise to give you guys an idea of what is possible uh under the CBA, what works financially, and try and give some insight into, okay, what the Suns need and what this other team needs because I think a lot of times when a fan base comes up with trades, it’s very much, well, this guy would be great for us without thinking of the other side. So, we want to do that. We also should acknowledge that if the Suns do acquire a player via sign and trade, uh, they are hardcapped at the first apron. So that’s 195.9 million that they could not cross that amount uh at any point for the upcoming season. So something to keep in mind when we do talk about certain sign and trade targets um to keep in mind and you can hardcap yourself at the second apron as well if you uh aggregate two or more players in a trade for salary matching purposes. If you send out cash in a trade, if you send out a player via sign in trade, we don’t have to really worry about that with the Suns. But it’s worth noticing noting that in any of these trades where the Suns are sending out multiple players for salary matching purposes, they are automatically hardcapping themselves at 207.8 million. That’s not an issue because the Suns want to stay below that second apron anyway. But just so everyone’s aware of that. Uh we have the voice of reason smelly garage fluid in the chat saying, “I’m here as a third party to let y’all know what’s delusional and what’s reasonable.” Well, Gerald, this first trade we’re going through made me delusional when you even brought it up yesterday. So, Stephen, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Suns receiving former president of the B NBA basketball player at the MBPA. Sorry, I don’t respect him. Uh CJ McCall, come for Grayson Allen and Royce O’Neal. Is this something Stephen like listen obviously I’m biased and I’ll rip into this in a second but from a non-biased basketball perspective is this something the Suns should even consider? Nope. And I said nope because what does he bring in different than anything that Jaylen Green and Devin Booker already have in terms of what what is overlapping between those two. He’s bad at negotiations and he brings that with significantly worse defense than either those two. So, yeah, I would I would appreciate having a um having a mature head in the room outside of just Deon Booker and players like Mark Williams, but at the same time, is it worth giving up two of your highest ranking assets that you have on your roster right now for someone that’s coming off of a not good season? Putting that nicely that ultimately ended up with him being traded from a team that wasn’t doing well to a team that’s arguably the worst in the league right now. I don’t think that’s I don’t think it’s worth it right now. I don’t think it it makes sense after you traded for Jaylen Green. I think it might have made more. I I think that in a vacuum CJ McCollum’s a better fit next to Devin Booker than Jaylen Green is, but he’s also I think turning 34 in a few months here. Um and like he he’s been a 20 points per game scorer for 10 straight years now. Like he he’s been consistent. I think he can he’s a little bit more efficient with his three ball with getting to his spots, but you know, he hasn’t become a star for a reason. And like you said, Stephen, the defense is a big thing. You could trade Jaylen Green for CJ McCollum. The math works there. But you’re getting 11 years older. That move makes zero sense given how much younger you got and the way that you changed your trajectory. So, I’m out on this deal also. Yeah. I mean, I’m out for personal reasons and also out for basketball reasons as well. Like listen, if you’re going to trade for a guard and and and we’ll get to some guards later that I think fit better in the mold, but if you are going to add another guard to this rotation, it cannot be a questionable defense score first guard. And I know that CJ has played a little bit more point guard recently when he was the two guard next to Dame in Portland. He slid a little bit over more to be a combo guard one two. You just don’t need that in here. And as much as some fans, including myself, might be ready to move on from Grayson Allen or Royce O’Neal for the right deal, I don’t want to trade them for a guard like that. Maybe a different guard who can help defensively or that can help with distributing the ball, but he’s just too overlapping. And also, I don’t respect him as a negotiator, and I don’t want somebody on this team that I don’t respect. Screwed the Suns over, man. I mean, seriously, he did. He did. And the last time we traded for a guard from the Washington Wizards, that was a consistent 20 plus point per game scorer over a decade. It didn’t go too well for us either, even though we’d probably be trading less here. But let’s go from a guard to a forward, but somebody who has made their way in the NBA for a long time. It’s the Suns and the Spurs. Rivals turn trade partners. Straight up swap. Stephen Harrison Barnes for Grayson Allen. Can I have a question for y’all actually on that one because just in kind of thinking over it. I talked about the Spurs wanting uh Kipple in the draft desperately. Um Gerald and I also talked about Cam Johnson being a sneaky candidate for them. Obviously, they struck out on both of those two. They need shooting in the room. Yeah. Players that are going to be able to do so and be comfortable not having had the ball to dribble for seven, eight possessions in a row. Every catch is either a quick decision to move it or shoot it. Grayson fits that for them. But the question is for the Suns, is Harrison Barnes good enough to be your starting four. If the caveat, but the caveat is for as well as he played last season, play with Chris Paul. That comes with a certain type of shot diet in addition to playing next to Victor Wyama that the Suns just cannot replicate. for as great of a playmaker as Devin Booker is, for as great of a for as great of a role gravity type of center Mark Williams is when he’s healthy, those those pieces can’t replicate having Chris Paul and women. So, does the Suns context have copy and paste ability that the Spurs did last season for Harrison Barnes who had a career best season from deep? I think no in that sense. I still think Harrison Barnes would be the best four that you have right now. But for me, I’m not sure that I would do this trade without like at least a second or two attached because I I think like Harrison Barnes would be the best starter at the four spot that you have, but I would rather see those developmental minutes go to Ryan Dunn, to Rashier Fleming, to Nigel Hayes Davis even just to see what you have there. So, as much as I think this trade makes the Suns a better team and makes their starting five a little bit better, I think for an expectation standpoint, I’m okay with the team not being as good as long as it’s pouring developmental minutes into those younger guys. I think if you’re getting something back, like you said, Gerald, if if you can get one or two second round picks in here, and I think Grayson Allen’s a great fit for the Spurs, especially like for them, they they’ve got their bigs, they’ve got their power forwards, right? And and I think for him like he can play alongside really any lineup they throw out there. I don’t know if San Antonio would be willing to part with some picks, but Grayson All also younger. Like I don’t think he matches their timeline, but he’s closer to their timeline than a Harrison Barnes. And obviously they just shed Chris Paul because he chose to go to LA. So they would overall get a lot younger by losing CP3 and then trading for Grayson Allen. For the Suns, there was a lot of people in the chat talking about Nigel Hayes Davis or Rasher Fleming. They’re like the saviors at the four. And while longterm I agree with you Gerald, I think Harrison Barnes is a great guy to mentor Rashier Fleming personally as somebody who’s developed his offensive game and has had multiple different offensive roles throughout his career. I think with Nigel Hayes Davis, as much as I I do believe that he could be an NBA player, you I can’t bank on him being the savior at the four for this team. Like he’s had a great overseas career and maybe he is the next PJ Tucker. Maybe he is the next Gershell. We haven’t seen him play an NBA game this decade. and the when he played last decade, he wasn’t good enough to stick around. So, I would do this trade if it’s one second round pick involved. I going back, I would just do it because it’s not like you’re going all in. You’re receiving an asset and I just think you even out your roster a little bit. But that’s just me personally. And you could like maybe you start the year with him starting at the four and then one of the younger guys, Ryan Dunn, Rashir Fleming, like it’s undeniable they need to be getting more minutes, getting minutes ahead of him. You can play him as a three. like he’s not as quick as he used to be. He’s not suited for guarding the three, but if you’re bringing him off the bench at the three or the four, whatever you want multi-positional defenders, it’s not a terrible trade. It’s a very unsexy trade though. I’ll definitely say that this is the Shams tweet, Stephen, that gets people saying like, “Shut up.” underneath it. They’re like, “No one cares.” Announce other announce other relevant players. I do think that would be a good trade for San Antonio though because they really need shooting 100%. I think they will be aggressive in the market at some point during the season to go and get someone from that archetype. Yeah. So, we need a starting four, I think, is what our conversation here has turned into. Now, can I interest you in a more athletic starting four? The Pacers clearly are not going to be going anywhere this season without Tyresese Halleurn, at least not to where they went this season. Would they be willing to trade Obi Toppin and Ben Shepard for Grayson Allen and Nick Richards? Stephen, does Indiana even entertain this? Is Is Grayson Allen good enough for them to think about getting rid of Obie Toppen who was an integral piece to their near championship run this past season? I don’t think they budge on what they built last season because they had to get theirs literally out the mud and figure it out. A lot of philosophy changes offensively, defensively, putting both of those in tandem. Obie came to them in that exact time where there was overlap in the transition. I don’t think they want to touch what they have. If anything, they’re just going to be looking after Miles Turner went to the Bucks to figure out something at the five long term. So, I don’t know if they entertain it. They got Jay Huff and I feel like that was about as much as they’ll probably do and just figure out what they can do next season. It’s going to be a very developmental year for everyone independent of Tyresese Hallebertton. So, I think they’re going to just air on that part of it. Yeah, I I think maybe if Tyrese Hallebertton was still healthy after losing Miles Turner, maybe they’d do something like this, not just to get Grace Allen shooting, who he fits in really well with the pace they play at, the number of attempts they get up. Um his quick decision-m as well, when to shoot, when to drive, all that type of stuff. I think he’d fit in well. And Nick Richards, obviously, like your center rotation right now is Jay Huff, James Weisman, and Tony Bradley. Not great. But I also don’t know for sure that Nick Richards is better than two out of those three either. Um, and I I think Obi Toppin, like Rick Carile, the way that they used him was really good. Like they got the most out of him in a way that the Knicks a lot of Knicks fans thought that they might be able to do. Um, so I I think Obie’s off limits in in this type of deal. Would love it though. I mean, clearly I think he’d be like a perfect four for this team. He’ll run the floor. He’ll have the pace. He can he can defend well. He’ll be a rim runner. He’s developed his three ball. He’s grown a lot since he went to Indiana and got to spread his wings and maybe he’ll grow some more. Maybe it won’t be as effective as far as wins and losses go without Tyrese Halbertton, but offensively he might be able to show out now in the modern NBA with the CBA that the first person we talked about in this show had part in uh C.J. McCollum. I don’t even want to say his name. He’s like he’s like my Voldemort. Uh CJ McCollum. I hear you. Um, Obie Toppin is going to need to get paid at a certain point and if he has an incredible season for a Pacers team that gives him more leeway, they might not be able to afford to keep him. Now, do you say we’ll take a reliable contract that has an NBA skill, one of the best in Grayson Allen in his shooting, and then we’ll add somebody into our center rotation that maybe can develop. He’s still young. He’s shown flashes even if he’s not great. I also think that the Pacers throwing in Ben Shepard here is not a small deal. Obviously, he’s not a great player, but he is somebody that I think is part of their identity and part of their rotation. So, yeah. So, that was a couple people mentioned that in the chat as well. The deal does not work if Ben Shepard is not included because the salary is too much. You’d probably have to take Nick Richards out of it to make that work. Um, and then at that point, I don’t think Grayson for Obi Toppin and straight up is something they consider. Uh, and to your point, Obi Toppin, he’s under contract for the next three years. he is extension eligible in 2026. Um so we’ll see how that goes. So the end of next season he’s extension eligible and if he but he does still have two years left on his contract still. So but it’s a it’s a big year for like yeah it’s not a contract year for him but if you’re extension eligible and you have a great season and you play, you know, really well in a deteriorated type situation in Indiana, you’re going to be demanding for a pretty high extension. And then at that point, do they look to trade him? I don’t know. At this point, I think this is pretty unrealistic. This might be one of the more unrealistic ones that we talk about today. Uh but if the Suns were to find a way to add Obby Top into this team, he would be maybe one of the best options we’ve talked about as far as a starting power forward. One last thing, the problem that we are going to continue to cross with a lot of these trades and I left a lot of names out that would make sense for the Suns is because they don’t have a tradable first round pick. They do have a 2027 extra first round pick, but because of the Ted Steppian rule, because they owe their 2026 pick to another team because they own their own or they owe their own 2027 pick to the Rockets, they cannot trade their 2027 extra pick that they have. Uh because then they would have back-to-back future drafts where they’ve traded away picks. They can trade that 2027 pick after the 2026 draft ends because then it’s no longer a future draft. It’s the the current draft. Um, but as of right now, they don’t have a single first round pick that they can trade and that really hurts in trying to sweeten these deals. And that’s why you will not see Larry Markin’s name included in today’s episode cuz yes, you can get there creatively with combining Jaylen Green and Grayson Allen and Royce O’Neal and three and four team deals. But you literally, it’s not legal. They just don’t have the facilities for that right now. Well, I mean, I’ve said it before, Danny A, big fan of picks. He He’s not doing any deal without pick. find a way to get the picks, you can get yourself into the Larry marketing party because he would certainly make sense for everything not has wanted from his bigs. And as much as I enjoyed the draft day trades that they made, Gerald, they also traded away a lot of their future second round capital in order to move up and get Rashir Fleming and Kobe Brea, which also then limits some of these. Maybe Indiana would be willing to do it if you threw in a couple of second round picks and whatnot. But yeah, I I think that’s pretty unrealistic. But is it realistic to get a name like Jeremy Grant or maybe another player from Portland? What about the signing trade, guys? We’ve got a whole lot more to get into on a Trade Machine Tuesday edition of PHX Suns. And we’ll do it right after our first break. Whatever the moment, it’s never ordinary over at Bet 365. You might be thinking to yourself, “But Eric, it’s not the middle of the NBA season. 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And I’m going to say, “Yeah, of course.” But it’s not me, Gerald. It’s the hat. It is the hat. It’s always the hat. You look good, too. Thank you. But it’s the hat. It’s mostly the hat. It’s basically only Branded Bills. Whether you need snapbacks, truckers, fitted beanies, or TE’s, Branded Bills has you covered with performance and style, and not many brands can mesh the two as well as Branded Bills. They’re a local company out of Mesa, Arizona. But they’re going across the country. I’m seeing Brandon Bills billboards and hats everywhere. It seems like every hat I see out in public has the little BB logo on the side. There it is right there. Nice little BB logo, including my closet, which is now overflowing with hats. Megan says, “Stop bringing home hats.” And I’m telling her, “No, they’re branded Bill’s hats.” And she understands. 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And a lot of people be wearing their Brandon Bills hats, which Ensow says in the chat, “Not affiliated, but those hats are actually comfortable AF.” They are. Girth Jr. says, “I’m disappointed in you, Eric. You never wore your aligned PHNX shirt.” That’s not true. I wore my aligned PH neck shirt when I talked to Sham Shirania and I went to Sun’s practice in my son’s aligned shirt. Don’t worry, I’ll wear it tomorrow. Yeah, I’m less crazy about that one. But yeah, it’s okay. Brian Gregory did see the aligned shirt. Uh, I’ll wear it tomorrow for you, Gri. I’ll wear it for you. There you go. Okay, let’s stick with power forwards. Let’s do it. And let’s go to the Portland Trailblazers. Yeah. Jeremy Grant for Grayson Allen and Royce O’Neal. Gerald, why would either side do this? I don’t know. I mean, the Blazers would The Bla The Blazers So, the Blazers would do it to get out of Jeremy Grant’s contract, but it’s worth noting that Royce O’Neal and Grayson Allen are under contract for three years still as well. It’s for a lesser price for two players instead of one. Um, they’re guys that they could potentially flip depending on what the hell their season looks like coming up because they are a young team on the rise and they could use veterans who can shoot the ball, who can do a little bit of everything. At the same time, if the rebuild doesn’t, you know, take flight, like I think they’re hoping this season, they could easily ship those guys elsewhere. Um, for the Suns, this is about trying to be as competitive as you can this season because Jeremy Grant is one of the few, I think, starting caliber fours that the Suns could actually trade for with Grayson and Royce without having to attach picks. Um, but he’s under contract for three more years, over a hundred million. It’s a lot of money for a guy who’s 31 who has not, you know, made that leap to where you thought he would be. A couple years ago, he was a great two-way player, a guy who could create his own shot, athletic, would fit in really well. I think we’re past that stage at this point. I would be I would be moderately interested in taking a flight on Jeremy Grant. Okay. And I say that because when he was in Detroit, that’s when the peak of his 3 and D powers kind of surfaced and he got the attention he did, which ultimately led to the bag that he’s received for Portland. Yeah. Now, you get to Portland and even though it wasn’t that big of a leap downward from Detroit in terms of where they were and where they were trying to get towards, the context was completely different. Yeah. Uh he had the ball in his hands significantly more. Uh the defense around him wasn’t the same. I imagine if he was with the Suns and what they’re giving up in this deal, he would have pieces around him to help insulate him defensively for him to be his best self, but also do the exact same thing on offense, creating more catch and shoot opportunities. And the hallmark of his game, playing off of dribble handoffs, guards can get it to him in that in that context. Dylan Brooks will be able to do so. Obviously, Mark Williams and Malwatch and Nick Richards are good with that as well. Mhm. I feel like the context would benefit him being with the Suns and Jordan system and with the pieces around him. I think Jeremy Grant, the player at the four for the Suns with a stretch big option and somebody who can create his own shot, he’ll take a little bit of pressure off of Devin Booker. Like the idea of Jeremy Grant, even though he is 31 years old right now, I think fits with this team. It is the contract that is the big problem here because we were just celebrating getting off of Bradley. And by getting off of, I mean turning him into a five-year problem at a lower price. A player who was past his prime, who was getting paid max money. And that’s what Jeremy Grant was getting when he hit free agency was the most that he could possibly get. And if you talk to Blazers fans or listen to Blazers fans, they’re not too thrilled about the fact that he’s under contract for that much. Now, can Portland maybe attach some draft assets to take on Jeremy Grant? Is that something that maybe would interest me more? Sure. Would I do it for one more second round pick? No. Would they be willing to do anything more than that, Gerald? I I don’t think so. I I think we need to kind of um lower our expectations when it comes to the trade value that Grayson and Royce have because for a lot of these deals that we’re proposing, other teams aren’t are not going to be excited about getting Grayson and Royce unless they address a very specific need or unless they’re trying to get off of a contract like a Jeremy Grant. So, this is one of the few deals that feels semi-realistic in terms of Portland’s like, “Yeah, if we don’t have to attach a draft pick, we’ll take these guys and we’ll get out of Grant’s contract. You guys get a starting caliber four.” Even though it’s a bad contract, it’s not a winwin. It’s kind of a a wash. Yeah, it’s an That’s kind of where I’m at with it. I mean, I could see I mean, Portland was giving up two second round picks with Simons to trade for Drew Holiday before the medicals came back all funky. But I I could see if I’m the Suns, I’m sitting there saying maybe Grayson and Royce as far as player value goes, Stephen, is not good enough to equal Jeremy Grant, who’s also just not great at this point. Like, I don’t think he’s leaps and bounds ahead to that point. But you’re getting such better contracts. Like Royce O’Neal’s on a good contract. Grayson on a good long-term controlled contract. Dumping a first round pick to get rid of a bad contract is kind of standard practice in the NBA. It is. And to answer the question in the chat, would the Blazers do this? Absolutely. For one, because of the value of the contracts, you can flip those pieces in addition to having Drew Holiday, who’s probably not going to be around for more than a season there, I’d imagine. You can combine those two and you can get some significant returns back for those pieces. But also for the team that they have, they’re where they’re going. They’re trying to get more shooting around all of the guards that they have on the roster right now and the big man. So yes, they would do it and it would be obviously be doing them a favor. Can you get a pick from them in this deal? That’s my question. Can you get it first? If you can, absolutely you do. Not a not a probably not a Probably not a first. Maybe like two seconds. You can get two seconds. I wouldn’t do it for I would I would only do it and I’m not saying they would do it. I would only do it if there’s a first round pick in the next three to four seasons attached to Jeremy Grant personally. Standing not doing and that’s fine. I’m just saying like for for where the Suns are in the situation, that’s kind of where my hold up would be. Yeah, for sure. All right, that’s fair. Well, let’s stick with the Blazers, but let’s move to a name that we just talked about. Drew Holiday, can he come to Phoenix? Well, it would work for Grayson Allen, Royce O’Neal, and a 2026 second round pick. This guy was just traded back to Portland. Now, they had to knock off two second round picks because of his medicals, Gerald. But on paper, Drew Holiday is like the perfect point guard to put next to Devin Booker. He is. The problem is he’s getting older. And that’s I I kind of I loved this when I came up with it because for the second time, the Blazers got Drew Holiday dumped on them and are now probably going to wind up rerouting him. I would assume they they could keep him cuz Dame’s not going to play until next season. So maybe he’s kind of their stop gap guy, but I’d be shocked if they’re not trying to find a deal for him to get more assets again. I just don’t know if the Suns offer of Grayson Royce in a second really moves the needle. They might be able to do better even though Drew Holidayiday is what, like 34, 35. Yeah. So, I don’t know. I I would love this trade. I do think it makes a little bit more sense if you’re trying to be competitive, but I I feel like Drew Holiday for the next one to two years, whatever’s left on his contract, would be I mean, he’s like the idealic type of fit next to Deon Booker, even as he’s a little bit older now. I like Drew for non- basketball purposes, just as a human being. I think he’s a high character dude. He brings that toughness, but also brings the toughness with the level of professionalism that allows for you to build a culture. And again, no different than I spoke to with Chris Paul, but in ways unique to himself. Drew would allow for Jordan not to do that in a kind of expedited fashion. If you can find a way to make this trade happen for that package that you’re giving up, then by all means, I think you have to take that opportunity just because you only have so much that you’re working with. Assess the rest of the market. What else could you flip Grayson and Royce into to give you that type of intangible impact in addition to the skill that they’re bringing to your team? That’s kind of where where I’m at with that. Drew Holiday owed around $72 million in 2026 and 2027 season. Uh the reason why Boston traded him was to save money. Now I somebody in the chat made a good point like we were all bored Chris Paul coming home and you know Chris Paul is an older point guard. That being said, I was on board at a veteran’s minimum contract and Chris Paul played 82 games last season. And I don’t know if his health is in a better spot than Drew Holiday, but your medical’s got to be pretty bad to forego two second round picks at that point in that trade. Like there’s something up with him. Then you also have the Jaylen Green question. Now, there was a trade earlier that you said C.J. McCollum and Jaylen Green works. I think there’s still too much overlap there. There are other Jaylen Green trades that we’ll talk about later in the show, Gerald, but there would have to be a move in conjunction with this. And for the Suns, I don’t see them doing this move because I think they are putting a lot of their cards on Jaylen Green and saying, “Go prove people wrong.” And then maybe at this point next year, we can realistically talk about the Suns are looking to move Jaylen Green. They are. This is another deal that made more sense before you went out and got Jaylen Green, who the Suns, they’re very high publicly and privately on their fit together. Um, even though we did hear a report from Mike Scotto that when when they were talking about Kevin Durant trades, they were potentially scoping out third teams to take on Jaylen Green. So, I I think if you did this trade, Holiday would start year one and you’d bring Jaylen Green off the bench. And I don’t know that that’s good for their long-term pairing or Jaylen Green’s confidence if he gets traded for, told he’s going to be Booker’s backcourt partner, and then immediately gets sent to the bench for 35-year-old Drew Holiday. So, uh, yeah, this this one’s fun to think about because I really feel like years ago, we’ve been saying this for years, that if they found a way to trade for Drew Holiday, him and Book would be an ideal backcourt pairing. Um, but we might be past that point considering in his age, like 37 season, you’d be paying him his 37 million dollar player option. Jaylen Green, Jaylen Green, Jaylen Green. Well, we don’t think he’s going to be traded this off seasonason once the season starts and once we get an X off season. Maybe. And honestly, a lot of Suns fans don’t believe that he is the backcourt partner of the future for Devin Booker. So, what would some straight up Jaylen Green trades look like? And what about those signing trade guys that have been out there on the market for a while that nobody has picked up and the Bulls and the Warriors haven’t signed yet? Well, we’ve got trades breaking all of it down. We’re keeping things rolling on a Trade Machine Tuesday. Make sure you hit the like button. Please hit the like button. So many of of you in here who have not hit the like button. Do it for Stephen, okay? Not for us. Mhm. Or for him. Hit that subscribe button. We’re here live five days a week breaking down the Suns. And if you’re listening on audio, five star reviews. We’ll keep it rolling. Trading Machine Tuesday right after our second break. And I’m going to keep it rolling to Circle K probably tomorrow because I need to fill up on gas before I drive to California later this week. And if I’m filling up on gas, I know that I’m going to Circle K. Not just because I live right next to a Circle K or right down the street is another Circle K and then down the street from that Circle K is also another Circle K. So I can actually hit all of them, but because I can save so much money just being an inner circle member. And you ask yourself, Eric, why do you get to be in the inner circle but not me? And I say, wait, you can be in the inner circle and it costs you nothing. All you have to do is download the Circle K app, put in your phone number, put in your email, and boom, you’re automatically saving money. I’m talking 25 cents off per gallon on your first five fill-ups, 3 cents off per gallon every fill up after that eventually getting bumped up to 5 cents off per gallon once you use it enough. Plus more deals like if you visit four times in a month, save 25 cents off per gallon after that. Or you can get food deals 79 cent Polar Pop 99 centers, meal deals, everything possible. Join the inner circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today. Terms, conditions apply at participating locations. Visit circlek.com for more details. And I keep on giving you details about my personal life when it comes to APS cuz I keep on telling you about how lazy I am and how I love my smart thermostat. But it’s not just the laziness, it’s the money that I save as well. Did you know that every one degree you raise your thermostat, you could save up to two to 3% on your cooling cost? The only catch is you got to remember to adjust your thermostat and that can be hard when you’re busy or not at home. And that’s why a smart thermostat with APS works with your APS rate plan to help automatically adjust the temperature in your home. It always makes it easy. If you’re away from home, if you’re on a trip, if you’re at work, if you’re just running out and getting groceries and you want it to be a little cooler, a little warmer when you get back, you can do that. Plus, APS customers can find instant rebates, discounts, special offers on smart thermostats, energy efficient appliances, and more at marketplace.aps.com. And right now, APS customers may be eligible for smart thermostats for as low as $0 when you enroll in the APS Cool Rewards program. And if you already have a smart thermostat at home, like myself, see if it’s eligible to enroll in cool rewards. Plus, free installs available at marketplace.aps.com. aps.com. Must be an APS customer and pay shipping and taxes. Other restrictions apply. Go to marketplace.aps.com for more information. Shout out all the stars in the chat right now, including Smelly Garage Fluid. I just love that name. Melon Smasher from the BK. Another good one. And a 499 super chat from Leo saying, “How about Royce O’Neal for Jared Vanderbilt?” Yay or nay? Love y’all. Love you too, Leo. Uh, yes. Love you too, Leo. I would rather just keep Royce. Honestly, I was high on Jared Vanderbilt a few years ago, but he hasn’t proven that offensively he can bring enough to stay on the table and let his defense do its thing. So, I I would be out. Does that work straight up? Uh, I’m not sure. I would assume so. Leo usually when he suggests trades, they usually work. Um, I would double check just to make sure. But I am going to double check. But while I double check, Stephen, what do you think about a potential swap? No, I’m not as high on uh Jared Vanderbilt as I was maybe two seasons ago either. Um Vando would not benefit from the Suns context because the Suns aren’t as sure offensively as they were in the Chris Paul and Kevin Durant and Deon Booker era, which is when I was thinking about bringing Vano in because he’s insulated as much as he possibly could be on offense, can play the fives and be out the way with everything that those guys can create. And defensively, he insulates them the same way that they do for him on offense, but not for this roster. No. Tell Leo that you love him. I love you too, Leo. What you What you mean, girl Junior? Get out of here with Well, you know, cuz we said it back, but you didn’t say it back. I gave the head nod. I didn’t want to cut Gerald off. Freckled Mamba, say that you love Leo. I love Leo. That girl Junior, you say you love Leo. Yeah, everybody say that they love Leo in the chat. But do you love this next trade? Talk about the Suns needing a defensive-minded point guard and possibly trading Jaylen Green. What about a straightup swap with the Pelicans? Jaylen Green for Deontay Murray. Gerald, it works on paper, but does it work for you? I don’t know, man. I there would be risk with this trade. I I feel like Jaylen Green is kind of the Charmander to Dejonte Murray’s Charmeleon. Uh if you guys are Pokemon people, you’ll get that. If not, I’d probably just idiot. Pokemon deep dive. Oh, that would be fun. NBA players as Pokemon. Yes, that’s a draft. Yeah, we might need to do that. But um sorry, season. But I also think it’s worth noting like the only reason that we’re suggesting this type of trade is cuz a I don’t know what the hell the Pelicans are doing trading for Nei. Trading for Jordan Pool. Don’t know what that’s about. Don’t know what their plan is moving forward. But I do think that the last two teams that traded for Dejonte Murray as a marquee pickup were disappointed with what they got. The Hawks obviously rerouting him to New Orleans not long after. the Pelicans. It hasn’t been great since he’s been down there, but I do think if he could be in the right environment and tap into more of the defensive uh minded guy that he was in San Antonio, he’s a better playmaker than Jaylen Green. I think he’s a more efficient, better shotmaker than Jaylen Green. He’s older. He’s four years older. So, there is that to consider and that might work for the Pelicans. Maybe they want to get younger. I don’t know how they feel about Jaylen Green, though. So, a lot of question marks around this one for me. I like the fit of Murray better than Booker in an ideal world, but I will say that the last few years he hasn’t been the efficient shot maker that he’s needed to be to kind of play the way that he plays. And defensively, he’d have to be better in Phoenix than he’s been. I think he would be in a better position with the Suns than any season that he’s been with the Pelicans. Um, naturally having another guard, he’s comfortable being off it. the shots that he would be able to take with the Suns off of Devin Booker would naturally play directly to one of his skills that can be a strength and I think the Devin Booker would in turn extremely benefit from what he could provide on the defensive end. uh with that 610 almost 611 wingspan for a guard that’s low that’s shorter than 6’5 that’s condor like honestly that’s sign significantly plus in terms of size and he’s one of the better point of attack defenders as well which would naturally help Dylan Brooks as well as Ryan Dunn and the center group I like Dejante I don’t think the Pelicans even though we don’t know what they’re doing I don’t think they’re in the market for another guard they just drafted two with this most recent draft as well so I I imagine Green will have to be rerouted to a third team but I like the prospects of um DeJonte with with the Suns. But Stephen Jaylen Green plus Jordan Pool. No, guys. Uh also, De Jante Murray, I got your pool. Ruptured his Achilles tendon. Yeah. This year in January. And you mentioned Gerald, he’s got to be better on defense. I think Deontay Murray’s gotten the benefit of the down after making that alldefensive team with the Spurs that he is like this elite level defender. He has not been the same type of defender. Now, he’s had flashes and he’s not bad, but he’s not all defensive level anymore. Not anymore. Not anymore. He was, but not anymore. I would rather keep Jaylen Green than this. Jaylen Green’s younger. Jaylen Green’s not coming off of a torn Achilles. Is the fit in theory worse with Jaylen Green? Yes. But if I thought that this team five years from now would still be employing Jaylen Green and Deon Booker, then I’d think differently. I I think that this is still a gamble and eventually a flip. And I just don’t like De Jante as much in that situation. And in the NBA, you lose 1/100th of your athleticism. And you could be a completely different player. And with De Jante, who’s already taken a step back defensively. Offensively, he’s had better seasons than his past one. Older coming off of a ruptured Achilles. I just I wouldn’t do this. I wouldn’t do it. I think we buried the lead. I probably should have led with the fact that he is coming off the Achilles thing. So he would not be able to play for a while. So this is more of a long-term type of acquisition if you like the prognosis of what him and book would look like better than what you like Jaylen Green and to Jonte Murray. And I think that might be why even if the Pelicans aren’t necessarily in love with Jaylen Green, they might consider this over a guy that is coming off the Torch Achilles. But you’re right, we we probably should have mentioned that off the top. Yeah. Uh, I mean, I didn’t say I would not do it, but I do like the prospects of DeJonte Murray with the Suns for those reasons. But for sure, not over Jaylen Green. I’d rather have just them just keep Jaylen. It’s a buy low gamble for sure. Yes. And then the fact that you would have to get a third team involved just complicates things even more, too. You got I got a bone to pick with freckled Mamba. Set the light goal way too low. What is it? 75. 75. What is this? I mean, we’re we’re still ways away. We need some We need more. The light goal’s got It can never go below 100. like for Pokemon. It can never Yeah. I mean, Stephen, have you ever played Pokemon? Yes. When’s the last time for me? So, I was playing it on as recently as Sunday. Let’s go. Let’s go. They got a new one coming out on the Switch 2 in October. Oh, man. Yeah. I uh I’ve been playing a lot of like old Pokemon games. Obviously, I’m a big fan of Pokemon Ruby for sure. Uh recently played Pokemon Platinum. That’s one of my favorite ones. Shout out Infernape. Love Infernape. Okay, let’s keep it rolling before we lose all of our viewers here. How about another Jaylen Green trade? Uh, I mean, why not, right? Listen, Pokemon is universal. Okay. Polywhirl, you’re my boy. You’re my boy, Blue. Wait, what do they say? What do they say? What do they say? You say Poliworld. Yeah, I thought I thought that was somebody in the chat named Poliworld. And I was like, I don’t see a Poliworld in the chat. Marowak in the chat. You’re my boy. All right. Uh, let’s get into another trade. Stephen, your Chicago Bulls, not Josh Giddy. We’ll get there in a second. Patrick Williams and Kobe White for Jaylen Green works. Clearly, Stephen, this is centered around Kobe White. The Suns then also doing Chicago a favor and taking Patrick Williams deal as well along with this. Do you see the Bulls entertaining this? The Bulls would, but with the Suns without having a pick involved cuz you’re certainly doing them a significant favor. I don’t think it’s a I don’t think it’s a surprise to anyone across the league that they’re not okay with how the Patrick Williams um draft has kind of gone for them. That’s not it’s not been a good look and you would clearly be clearly be doing them a favor. So, no, I don’t I don’t think the Suns would want to do this with in the current construct. Yeah, I think I like Kobe White. I really do. And he had a career year. He’s been on the rise in Chicago quietly on some bad Bulls teams. But I I do think if you’re giving up Jaylen Green, you’re getting Kobe White, which is great, but you’re taking on Patrick Williams, which is honestly, in my eyes, just as bad as the Bradley Beiel dead salary. Like he is not an NBA player right now. Um, that could change. He’s still 23. He shoots well from three, but like he’s regressed at the rim. He’s not a good rebounder for being a four. His defense is not being His defense is bad. like it it’s just not good. So, if you’re giving up Jaylen Green, you would probably want a pick from the Bulls and I think you would be within your rights to push for a first. Um I don’t know if Chicago does it at that point. They would have to really like Jaylen Green as like their next young dynamic centerpiece to build around. Um so yeah, and I see people in the chat saying like why does Gerald hate Jaylen Green? I don’t. The whole thing is it’s a thought exercise. We’re coming up with trade scenarios. Um, I have my doubts about the fit with Jaylen Green next to Booker, but obviously I’m rooting for the kid. I want to see him succeed and I think there are some things that he brings to the table. So, that wasn’t included in the disclaimers off the top, but I felt I need to get that off my chest cuz like I don’t have an agenda against and like like Gerald said in his disclaimer, these trades are all trades that he wants the Suns to make. So, make sure you tag him. Don’t listen to him. Gerald Boray and get mad at him specifically. Plus, you can get mad at him by reading his article over gopx.com. At least get the clicks, right? Just get mad at me. Just get mad at honestly. You don’t even You don’t even need a reason. Scroll, read it. It’s good. Yeah. Uh there are five trades that we won’t be going over in this episode that you have over at gophnx.com. Every time we do trade machine Tuesday, there’s an article that Gerald writes that accompanies it and that always has more trades. So, if you think to yourself, why did they do this player? Maybe there’s that. Maybe I hate all of these trades. Maybe we saved the five best for the article. You’re just going to have to go and find out. We’ve talked about a lot of names so far today and a lot of different deals. There are two names out there in the restricted free agency land that a lot of people have been talking about their ties to the Suns. We’ve buried the lead long enough. We’re going to talk about deals for Jonathan Kaminga and Josh Giddy, but we’re going to do it after our final break. You don’t want to go to the big box store and get screwed over with anything, but let alone with something as big as flooring. And if you want to make such a big decision, you want to make sure all of your options are flushed out and you’re not being taken advantage of of. And that’s what Empire Today is perfect for. They have flooring experts. I’m talking dedicated flooring professionals who focus on flooring every single day. You get clear, upfront, all-inclusive pricing. Plus, you can schedule installation as soon as the next day, so you can get a free in-home estimate, have all your questions answered, look at your home with your furniture, your budget, everything about you that’s specific, and then you can start installation the next day. And that’s not all. Schedule your free estimate today, cuz some things are just better off at home. 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Details at macu.com/double. Loans aren’t approved. Credit offer can change or be withdrawn at any time. This is a limited time offer and remember Stephen, terms and conditions apply and don’t you forget it. And don’t forget to hit that like button, hit that subscribe button as well. Uh Mr. Oh, see the the the ads. I hate the ads. Tony in the chat. Uh says, “What’s up, chat? Who do we hate today?” Who do we hate? CJ Mcllum. That’s not a new for you. No, but it’s true, man. Not new, but it’s true. I hate CJ McCollum. That’s tough. Uh, who’s the Mewtwo of the NBA? Bronny. Mewtwo. And Mew is No, Mewtwo. Mewtwo is way too powerful to be Bronny. Anybody watches My Hero? Has anybody watched My Hero Academia? The Yeah, the comparisons of of Deku and Bronny to All Might and LeBron. I mean, I could nerd out on that, but there go. Who is the Mewtwo? Gerald probably LeBron, you think? Yeah, I think Mu was probably Michael Jordan. So you’re you’re telling me that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time because Mewtwo is more powerful than Mew. I’m not telling you that. You just said that. You just said Mewtwo is more powerful. One with the power of love. Did you watch the Pokemon movie? I did watch the Pokemon said was the most powerful. You just said LeBron James is the goat. I want that on the record. In the current NBA was the question, right? All right, enough of Mew. Uh, let’s move on over here. This guy, this guy saying he didn’t say what he said. didn’t understand Pokemon the movie. Okay. I saw the power of love. It was beautiful. Can y’all get a line, please? Uh, no. I know Bronny’s not actually Deku, but if you saw like the edits, whatever. I don’t care. Shaw said less Pokemon, more Pooky. Oh, Pooky and the Poke Pals. Pooky and the Poke Pals, baby. Uh, yeah, Freckle Mamba missed that yesterday. Uh, I am now Pooky and these are the pals. You are a member of the pals, by the way. Uh, but will Josh Giddy be a member of the Phoenix Suns? Here’s a couple ways that could work out. Obviously, Gerald, these are the signing trades that you mentioned earlier, hard capping the Suns, which means the Suns would have to pay Josh Giddy whatever amount he is agreeing upon with the Bulls, but Josh Giddy for Grayson Allen in a 226 second round pick. How does this work for the Suns? Yeah, so due to the complicated math of signing trades and the fact that if you are a team that is above the salary cap but below the first apron, the most money that you can take back in a trade is whatever salary you’re sending out. uh plus 7.5 million. That is for contracts between 7.5 million to 29 million. Grayson’s uh contract is obviously in the middle there. So the most that they could take back is like 24.375 million because that’s 7.5 more than what Grayson Allen makes. So that means if it’s just Grayson Allen and you’re doing a signing trade for Josh Giddy, the most that that first year salary could be would be that 24.375 million figure. You can obviously make it a lower number in the first year and then the second, third year you escalate it so that he makes, you know, whatever raw figure you’re giving him. Um, and it’s worth remembering, like we mentioned at the start of the show, if you acquire a player through a signing trade, you are hardcapped at the first apron, which is 195.9 million. So, in any of these trades, if you’re taking back more than 8.9 million extra dollars, you are getting right up against that hard cap and you’re looking at a situation where you now have three open roster spots. So, that’s not a great idea. Um, and signing trades can only be for three to four years. You can’t do like a two-year signing trade. So, all of that being said, to trade Grayson Allen and a second for a Josh Giddy $24 million starting salary, thoughts? I’m not giddy for Josh. No, because of the repercussions for it. Mhm. Exhausting the few assets that you do have to build around this new roster context that you’re working towards. Mhm. I don’t feel like he’s a piece that fits with what they have and what they’re working towards because where is he? Is he coming off the bench? Is he playing a three for you? Those prospects don’t really match. They don’t align with what they’re working towards. So for me, it’s a no for the basketball reasons in addition to contractually. If you bring them in under those constraints of a signing trade, you just got done undoing some of the cap hill that you were residing in the last two seasons. You don’t want to start incrementally working towards that four piece that’s not going to significantly shift your retool into uh playoff level type of contention. I don’t want Josh Giddy on this team. No. That being said, I do want to play a little devil’s advocate here. Uh 21.2 points per game, 10.7 rebounds per game, 9.3 assists per game while shooting 50% from the field and 46% from deep. Those were Josh Giddy’s numbers post Allstar break for the Chicago Bulls. He was playing out of his mind basketball almost averaging a triple double. In fact, basically like single-handedly cost the Bulls a better pick in the draft and he hit that crazy gamewinner against the Lakers. He was he was he was allar player post allar break. He was hooping. And if you’re able to get him for a relatively decent price and just part with Grayson Allen, who’s a good player but not a part of your future and a second round pick for a tall guard who can pass and rebound and post all-star break could shoot. There’s something there. Like I would understand the people who would say, “Yeah, I’ll do it now. Not for 30 million.” And of course, Gerald, those numbers have not been his numbers throughout his career or even throughout the whole season. But I think that’s why this is taking so long. in the restricted free agency process is because Giddy has a couple of months to point at and say, “Hey, I was playing like a maxle player. 2110 and N on 50 and 46 shooting is max level player.” And that’s what he was playing for or playing as for the Bulls in the second part, not second half, but second part of last season. I think you said it right the first time when you said that’s what he was playing for. Yeah, fair enough. I do I do think there’s like those are fantastic numbers and he and the Bulls played a lot better after the All-Star break. I do not put a ton of stock in just that section because there’s a whole season for a reason and coming up on a contract year like I don’t know. I’m I’m a little hesitant about that type of stuff especially because like you guys have alluded to they’re just coming out of a bad contract. So, for me, the fit would have to be seamless. And in this trade, you still have Jaylen Green, you still have Devin Booker, I don’t think that fit is seamless by any means. I think Josh Giddy’s defense, he shot the ball well this year in Chicago for the first time in his career. Um, up until that point, it was low30s percentage-wise. So, I think between the defense and the shooting, as much as he could help set everybody else up, I I don’t think that’s a priority for the Suns, especially if it comes with paying this guy, you know, 24, 25, 30 million a year. I think the important thing, especially when players go on these pockets of a season, um, type of runs that stand out, how repeatable is it that they do what they do? What were the what was the situation they were in? Yeah. Post Allstar break, Zack Lavine’s not there anymore. There’s a shift in the way that the Bulls are running their offense that puts the ball in his hands significantly more than it was prior to Zack Lavine being traded. Comes to the Suns, is he going to have the ball in his hands even close to what it was for him to do the damage that he did post allar break? The answer is a resounding no. How is he going to be guarded? Mhm. They didn’t defenses didn’t really shift the way they guarded him. They just said you’re going to get dropped. You’re going to get unders. If you’re knocking down pullup threes, so be it. So be it. Shout out Clips. About to say I believe. Shout out Clips. But yes, that’s not that’s not going to be enough to shift things if he goes to this other context because he’s not going to have the ball in his hands and he’s going to be a Waldo or a pigeon for teams to target on the other end of the floor. Why would I want a tall point guard when I can just sign Delano Banton? There you go. I mean, it can’t get through a show without mentioning Dano Banton. Freckled Mamba, you missed it. Gerald and I fought yesterday over Dano Banton and the Anthony Melton. Yeah, there was a lot yesterday. Uh, is there a number for Josh Giddy that you would be okay with? Like, let’s say restricted free agency is not kind to him and he ends up taking well below his value. Is there a number that it gets to a point where you’re like, “All right, we got to just do this.” Yeah. They resend his qualifying offer and they sign. I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but like you are like the Bulls are pushing for 20 million a year as like the baseline and Josh Giddy’s camp wants 30 million a year. There’s just no like I don’t even want to pay that dude 20 million a year over the next three to four years. He’s just he doesn’t he’s not a good enough fit for me to want to commit that type of a threeyear fouryear salary to the guy. especially if you’re having to give up another one. Like we can look at the next great the Josh Giddy trade because this is the worst case scenario where you’re signing Giddy to a $30 million salary. This is what it would take. It would take Grayson. It would take Royce. Um maybe you can lose the second round pick that you have there to get it done. But like I feel like teams that have restricted free agents are in the driver’s seat right now because other teams aren’t going to make an offer that they can match. Um the market has been dry. like it’s really not a good market for restricted free agents. So, the Bulls can just kind of sit around and be like, “Yeah, it’s mid August. Are do you want to take our lower offer yet or are you still holding on to the hope that we’re going to change our minds?” So, I don’t know. I I just I’m not crazy about this even for 20 mil. I I mean, I think I think for 20 mil, you’d have to listen. Personally, I I think I think there’s enough upside there. I’m not saying I would do it, but I I do think that I mean, as far as like long-term fit goes next to Devin Booker, is Josh Giddy not a better fit than Jaylen Green? I’m sorry, I was distracted by soccer shoes comment. I was genuinely caught off guard by Is is Josh Giddy is Josh Giddy not a a better fit? Like, let’s put contracts aside than Jaylen Green. Than Jayen Green. No, he’s not. You don’t think so? No. I don’t know if I would agree with that. No, because I at least have hope that Green can defend. The defense is tough. The defense is tough. It’s It’s that, but it’s also there’s an activity level with Jaylen Green that Josh Giddy just doesn’t have. There’s an athleticism hit that we just got done talking about all last season the Suns did not have. And that when they went against teams that did have it, they typically got ran out the gym. Copy and paste each and every one of their matchups with the Oklahoma City Thunder last season. M they have somebody that’s cut from that cloth that they now can play with going forward with Deon Booker. You don’t take that step back and have the issues that comes with having Josh Giddy on your team and replacing that. I am done playing devil’s advocate. I’m not giddy on Josh and seen and seen. You were just joshing. I was just joshing around. I’m not trying to get too giddy. Uh any final thoughts on Josh Giddy before we move to our final trade here? I don’t think so. Again, he’s a player that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. If he’s in a situation where it’s not in his hands as much as it was post Allstar break, the context is not going to be the same in terms of his production and how much you might like him as a player going forward on that. All right. Well, we have one more trade for you, another restricted free agent. Of course, if you want more trades and you just joined, go to the beginning of the show once it’s over. We had a ton, including those about Drew Holiday, Jeremy Grant, Obie Toppin, Harrison Barnes, lots of different players in there. lots of different teams as well. And if you want even more than that, check out Gerald’s article over at gophnx.com. Every trade machine Tuesday, he’s got words that accompan accompany it, plus extra trades that we don’t get to on the show. We do not show you everything, but we will tell you that if you’re watching on TV, the party always continues over at gophnx.com, which means it’s time for overtime here on PHNX Suns. Hit that like button. We are six away from our like goal. would love if we could smash that. Before we end the show here, make sure you’re subscribed. We’re going to continue live shows throughout the week, Monday through Friday at 3:00 Arizona time. We just love talking hoop. If you love talking hoop, be a part of our community. Become a dieh hard today. Gerald, we’ve had a lot of conversations about Jonathan Kuminga. We have. He’s a restricted free agent. He is. And there are trades that work. You brought one to the table. I did. Um, so we’ve got combo a little back and forth there. That was great. Good rapport. Um, so again, just like with the Josh Giddy situation, it depends on what salary you’re signing Kaminga for, especially that first year salary in terms of what you’d have to give up. So for this particular trade, this would be if you got Jonathan Kuminga in the 25 million to 29 million range annually. Um, just like Giddy, the Warriors are pushing for 20 mil a year. uh Kaminga’s camp is pushing for 30 mil a year work operating under the assumption it’s like 25 mil. So you’re giving up Grayson Allen, you are giving up Nick Richards to kind of bolster their center rotation which could use a little bit of help. Um and you’re attaching a second round pick in the process. I have been on record saying that I’m not crazy about the Kaminga fit. I understand how he could help you. Um good slasher, good driver, all of that. Athletic player, young player. He fits a lot of what the Suns have prioritized this off season, but I do think him, Book, and Jaylen Green is is kind of a lot. I don’t know how you feed all three of those mouths necessarily. Uh, and I I don’t I’m not exactly crazy about paying Kaminga 25 mil a season when he was a guy that didn’t fit in with the Warriors culture. Like, that’s a pretty established championship caliber culture. And even if the team wasn’t championship caliber the last year or so, that that kind of says something to me. And if we’re all about trying to implement a defensive-minded culture here in Phoenix and all this other stuff, it was kind of telling that like Ge Santos was getting playoff minutes over him. Yeah. Uh Kaminga 50 or 28, excuse me, 20 points on 58 for from two. I can talk, I promise you. 40 from 40 from um 40 from three and like 70ish% from the free throw line. in the second round uh against Minnesota last season. Obviously, to your point, that’s without Steph Curry. Entire team context shifted. Jimmy Butler wasn’t quite himself either at that point at that point. So, the ball’s in his hands and he was asked to do a whole lot more. Is that the situation he’s going to be in with the Phoenix Suns? Yeah, it sounds a lot like the Josh Giddy situation from the contract standpoint as well as the context he would be coming into. I don’t know if he’s worth it. If they think they can get him to play and buy into a different role, then yes. But I would need to see things from him defensively that he if he showed when he was with Golden State, he wouldn’t even be in this position now. They probably wouldn’t have felt the need to trade for Jimmy Butler last season because of that as well. Well, getting Kaminga to buy into a different role is the whole reason why he doesn’t work in Golden State cuz he’s not buying in. You brought up the second round numbers and the context. Well, this is the context of his full season. We have these numbers here. 15.3 points per game, 4.6 rebounds per game, 2.2 2 assists per game, shooting just over 50% from two, just over 30% from deep, only 24.2 minutes per game. Now, listen. Oh, that was a playoff. No, those are regular stats. I’m pretty sure those are the playoff stats. Those are his regular season stats. Uh, for Kuminga here, I see why people would be tantalized by him and him being your starting power forward. There again is the conversation about how much is this guy going to get paid? because it does get to a point where if the value is driven down so low in restricted free agency and we know the Suns are interested because an initial Jimmy Butler trade with Kevin Durant moving brought Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kuminga to the valley. M you do wonder that if the price gets low enough and you’re parting with no main pieces of your future and Grayson Allen and Nick Richards a second round pick or if you find a way to throw Royce O’Neal in there as well to make the money work since Royce makes it less than Grayson and his money goes down at a certain point you got to at least consider taking a shot on somebody even if it’s not like perfect like I don’t think you’re in a position to say we won’t take a shot no matter what. Yeah, I I I get it. But the three-point shooting is not great. He’s undersized for a power forward at 6’7, even though he’s a longer power forward. And I honestly like you have very limited second round picks that you can offer and you’re giving one up in this deal. Like I would rather hang on to Grayson and Nick Richards and save them because like Nick Richards if Mark Williams get hurt and come on Model Watch is not ready. Yeah. You kind of need Nick Richards. Grayson Allen, like we talk about the log jam at the two, but after Devin Booker and Jaylen Green who are going to start together, he’s probably your one of your first guys off the bench. So, like I feel like they have more value to the Suns than they do to other teams, which kind of hurts with these trade negotiations, but maybe that changes as the season progresses. Maybe somebody else comes available that’s a better fit. I know that the Suns have been interested in Kaminga. We’ve heard the reports. Brett Seagull was on the other day talking about it. But if you’re doing all this to get Jonathan Kaminga, you’re signing him to a three or four year deal worth like 25 to 29 million annually and you’re hardcapping yourself at the same time, giving up two players for one and opening up another roster spot, like you’re really pushing the limits of how you’re going to round out this roster at that point. So for me, it’s just a little too far. The fit’s not good enough for me to be interested. And and if the value lowers enough, the Warriors will just resign him for that amount. That’s fair. Is there a number for you, Stephen, that it’s like, okay, the Suns can get Jonathan Kaminga at blank million dollars per year. You got to jump on that. Well, Golden State’s offering 20 and that’s like the I think they’re leaning towards that. I mean, maybe that changes. Maybe that’s just the reporting that I’ve seen that’s out there. But would you do 20? That’s where it gets tough for me. I don’t know if I don’t know if it’s worth it. I like him as a prospect, but at that number for where they’re at and what they’re trying to work towards and what they already brought in from this draft as well, I don’t know if he’s worth it. I’d rather just get those minutes to a player like Rasher Fleming, someone like Oso Eigodaro who showed a lot during summer league, see what they can do with it, reassess going into this upcoming summer after this season, and you know, see where you’re at. where I stand on Gideon Kuminga and and like I agree more with you guys, but just for the sake of argument because I know that there are people either in our chat right now screaming or or listening screaming who who are on the opposite side of it. And I think it’s completely fair because I do think that there are points on on both sides. When I look at Kuminga and when I look at Giddy, I don’t look at players that I’m going to be upset if the Phoenix Suns miss out on them. Like if Josh Kitty’s great and if Jonathan Kuminga is great, I’m not going to look back at the summer of 2025 and say to myself, man, the Suns could have traded blah blah blah and like like maybe it’s like a side conversation of, oh, remember they were interested in Kuminga and then Kuminga got really good. Like I think that that neither of them are needle movers to the point where I think you have to do it. if they do it and they have subsequent plans afterwards to deal with being hardcapped, which again is a whole other conversation in its own right, like I I can see the vision even if I don’t fully agree on it, right? You’re either taking a shot on a really tall young point guard who averaged a triple double on 50 45 shooting post all-star break or you’re betting on somebody who is a forward who fits at your power forward maybe small forward role could be a guy of your future who in limited minutes for for the Warriors put up pretty good numbers but clearly just didn’t fit there right like the the coaching style the play style their lack of pick and roll and everything just doesn’t fit for Jonathan Kuminga so I would understand why someone would want to take that shot, but me personally, I I’m good. We’re good. We got Ryan done. Yeah. Uh any final thoughts on Trade Machine? Huge turnout for Trade Machine Tuesday. Thank you all so much for hanging out with us. Just a reminder, don’t go anywhere. We’ll be back tomorrow breaking down the remaining free agents and who the Suns should target Banton. Um sorry, something got stuck in my throat there. It’s really melting your heart away. Uh yes, he is. Question for both of you guys. Yes. So, we talked about no Lowry marketing because of what that would need for the Suns as far as uh draft capital that they just don’t have right now. Mhm. What about Kevin Love? Would you trade for him? Would you wait for him to bought out? I wouldn’t trade for him, that’s for sure. What does his contract look like right now? Four mill. Nick Richards for Nick Richards for Kevin Love. Kevin Love. Probably not. Uh, I like not right now for sure. I think if the season goes on and Mark Williams looks healthy and come on, Mwatch is doing great off the bench or whatever and you’re looking at Nick Richards like, “All right, you got a 5 million salary. Let’s put you to use maybe.” Mhm. But as of right now, I would honestly probably rather keep Nick Richards as insurance for one of those two centers. if Kevin Love gets like bought out and the Suns have a roster spot to take him in or if maybe you get some value back which Danny A and his son who I forget his name but is now also calling the shots wants to give you like a pick or something because Nick Richards is a decade younger right and has some sort of prospect. I don’t think you’re getting a pick out of Utah. I don’t I again I don’t think so either. I’m just saying in this situation kind of run in the family. Yeah. I I like Kevin Love. I think Kevin Love be a good veteran presence. He’d be your best shooting big man for sure, but not worth trading something for. I don’t think so. Yeah, I I would take him after a buyout for sure. Yeah, after a buyout, I think that he fills a different type of role. And good veteran presence for a rookie head coach and a and a team right now whose veteran is, you know, Devin Booker who’s not 30 and and Dylan Brooks who’s the same age. Like, those are your vets right now. And I think they’re great and I think they’re good guys and I think they could be leaders, but there’s a difference when you’ve been in the league for even longer and you’re in your mid to late 30s like Kay Love. Early question for me. Ken Williams. I like Kenny Hustle. I know you like Kenny Hustle. I’ve liked him for a while. I I like him less now because it’s like I keep saying this about guys that I’ve liked for like three or four years. Well, no, I love the hair. Okay. But it’s more so the fact that it’s been three or four years since I first really liked them and now they’re older and not as good mostly. But I think he I think he could be useful for sure. You would it would just be another like Nick Richards trade. I just worry about doing deals with the Thunder in general at this juncture. Yeah. Somehow they end up with five first round picks in another MVP. It’d be like how the hell we didn’t even have any of those guys. How did you get them? Uh I like I like I like Kenri Williams enough to trade significant value for him. No, I don’t know. What’s his contract? Not significant, but like Nick, it’d be like just what Nick He’s like he’s like just barely double digits if I remember. Double digits like finish I believe. So Kenny $10 million. No. So Kenny makes 7.2 this upcoming season. And then the following season he has a $7.2 million team option. So that’s that’s kind of nice to have that flexibility. It’s a very small contract. Yeah. If he was making $10 million that would have been shocking. I mean maybe if one of the Thunder’s big men gets hurt. Yeah, maybe Nick Richards for Kenny Hustle. I’m not rushing to do that. The same thing with Kevin Love. Like, let’s just play it out and see. Like we talked about earlier, a lot of these deals don’t make a ton of sense right now. They might be worth revisiting later in the season depending on what happens for a certain team, a certain player, injuries, like it always changed the context, but just looking at what contracts kind of worked um was the point of the exercise. So that maybe down the line you’re looking at like hey like Deontay Murray’s finally back near the trade deadline or something. I don’t know. Yeah, just hypothetical. Patx Suns come for the Jonathan Kuminga and Josh Goody talk. Stay for the Kenny Hustle Talk at the end. But thank you all so much for hanging out with us on a trade machine Tuesday. Hit that like button on your way out. Hit that subscribe button on your way out. We’ll be back tomorrow talking free agents the Suns could target with their open roster spots. Like I’ve mentioned so many times and I’m going to mention again. Read Gerald’s article at gophnx.com, but it’s only for Dieard. So, become a diehard today. You can do that at gophnx.com or by scanning the QR code that’s popping up on your screen right now. It’s super fun. Get a free hat, free t-shirt when you sign up, access to our Die Hard Discord, all of Gerald’s article, and add free experience on our website, discount to our events like our pickle ball tournament on Saturday, and so much more. Plus, exclusive content especially during the season. We love our dieards, but we love all of you that are here to support PHX Suns. And if you want to follow us on socials, you can on Instagram and on Twitter at phnx_sons. You can follow Gerald at Gerald Borgay. You can follow Stephen at StevenPG3. You can follow the freckled mamba at freckledmamba. Thank you, Juiceman, for making all those fire graphics and for pushing all the buttons behind the Mac. It’s good to have you back and it’ll be good to see all of you back here tomorrow. You can follow me at Rik Ruby. We’ll talk to you then.
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The Phoenix Suns unlocked a lot of new avenues to make trades after ducking the 2nd apron by buying out Bradley Beal after trading Kevin Durant, but what are some actual trades they could make?
Could they put a deal together for RFAs Jonathon Kuminga and Josh Giddey? Would they be able to consolidate Grayson Allen and Royce O’Neale into a starting PF? Would trading Jalen Green be a viable option before ever watching him suit up next to Devin Booker?
PHNX Suns dives into 10 trades the team can make on another Trade Machine Tuesday!
Follow the show @PHNX_Suns, @GeraldBourguet, @StephenPG3, @ErikRuby & @FreckledMamba!
0:00 – Intro
2:00 – Trade Machine Tuesday will look Different after all the roster changes
3:10 – TMT Disclaimer
4:50 – Trade 1! Let’s Get Started
12:20 – Can The Suns Make A Trade With the Pacers?
21:35 – Portland… Let’s Make A Deal
35:45 – Trading Jalen Green???
48:35 – Josh Giddey from the Bulls, Can it Work?
59:05 – Jonathan Kuminga Sign and Trade?
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20 comments
C.J McCollum is a career loser just like Bradley Beal and is a terrorist for ruining the nba with the ridiculous cba
Feels to me like suns sit back and wait. Zero if these deals make us a good team so let the young players get the minutes and if an amazing opportunity come (tobins deal for pacers) the pull trigger.
I would do the Coby white trade
Why on Earth Spurs will trade Barnes for another guard
Josh Giddey is worth minimum of 25 million a year!! To 30 million.
Kuminga is not worth more than 25 million. He’s more a 17 – 20 million. Griddey Is 25-30 million though!!! Giddey is better
Man. Whatever happened to building chemistry and building a team. Building a reputation that's competitive, winning, plays hard, has fun. Building period. Green hasn't even been on the floor yet in a Suns jersey and plans want to trade him? 😳😂😂 You can't build chemistry shipping players in and out of here. I'm sure they were telling OKC the same thing and they stood pact and kept building and getting better. The Suns got smacked by the Mavs 2 straight seasons. Other than getting rid of DA maybe they should've stayed pact too and retool. They should've let DA go to Indiana and the Suns pick up Myles Turner instead of doing the Blazers trade. Why are guys saying who they don't want here? Lol. It's not our control and these players could look better here than where they were. I never liked Danny Ainge until he got here. 😂😂😂 Fans were saying I don't want Dillon Brooks here. Why not? Dude is tough and can ball. So what if he gets on the opponents nerve. LMAO. Now he's doing it for the Suns. Let's Go Suns.
I would rather have grant he obtainable doesn’t cost picks can shoot and can help mentor Fleming
Gerald is so wrong about Giddey. He's 22 and gotten better every year of his career. He's the perfect fit next to Booker. in 2 year $30M is gonna be a steal for Giddey.
DEAR PHNX PLEASE DONT BRING BACK THE SEXY SAX OR THE SAD PIANO..
Honestly right now I feel ending up with either Simmons or Westbrook is a more realistic option but who knows.. the Houston trade surprised me and I think we will be better than most will give us credit for.
Giddey has character issues. That's why the Thunder got rid of him.
Giddey is a point guard so why wouldn't he have the ball in his hands? Not sure the angst here. I think he'd fit well with Book. IMHO
Crazy that trades really just are about matching salaries, not talent or “value” under the current CBA
No way they should trade for anyone older than 26, what is the point – they are going to be out of the playoffs next year and have young players
11:19 you don’t trade limited assets to get a “role model”
Ima be real…Trae Young is Book's perfect counter for the Suns
The rest of the league don’t really see Grayson / Royce as “good contracts”, they are fair to slightly overpriced 26:22
lolll no one wants Grayson or Royce! … thought process or not you have to be slightly realistic, this is our roster unless something dramatic happens in the market… we need to stay away from the Kuminga situation, he adds nothing for the suns!
Grant would be great!