Pirates & MLB trade deadline LIVE: David Bednar goes to Yankees? Is Mitch Keller next?
Hello everybody. It is Thursday in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My name is Adam Bitner, assistant sports editor for multimedia at the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, joined by Jason Mackey, our Post Gazette sports columnist for our uh Pirates trade deadline special. We did this last year for the first time, talking you through the final hour before the MLB trade deadline, tracking trades the pirates have already made and those that might still come down to the wire. Uh we’ll go a little bit past 6:00. 6 o’clock is the deadline this year, two hours later than normal. Um so we’ll go through that because sometimes deals can be announced will be announced, you know, well after the the six get them in under the wire and the announcements are handled at that point. So, we’re not going to jump off right at 6:00 and we’re not going to assume that everything’s over um at that time, but uh we’re looking forward to breaking it all down with you. Um Jason, are you there? I saw you. Okay, I saw you. Uh the the connection got a little iffy there for a second. How are you? And and what are your thoughts? Here we are. Um David Bedner has been traded. Key Brian Hayes has been traded. Caleb Ferguson has been traded. Adam Frasier has been traded. Lots of names have gone in and out. Um, page of notes I had to grab, Adam. I’m ready. Exactly. And we still have, you know, the possibility of Mitch Keller, Isaiah Kinder, Falafa, Tommy Fam, maybe some other guys. Um, what are you looking for most in the next hour before we start digging through some of these trades that have already happened? Well, I hope they don’t trade Mitch Keller. That’s my first thought. Um, I I I was a little surprised they went with David Bedar. We’re going to debate this, so I don’t want to get down in the weeds right away. Um, did he get enough? I don’t know. I think that was the kind of trade where if it came along, if it was good enough, you had to act. And I boy, is this going to be a bad look if they do the same thing for Mitch Keller because there’s just no confidence whatsoever in this general manager in this front office and deservedly so. Um, whatever they do with Tommy Fam, Andrew Heeney, Isaiah Kiner, Falefa, I I don’t know if I’m going to react either way to it. I mean, they should trade those guys. as the return is not going to be very big. I had no problem trading KBrian Hayes. I I actually thought Cherington did pretty well for himself. Uh but the the pivot points here to me are David Bednar, Mitch Keller, um and any bigger assets if they would move them. I don’t think they’re going to. I think they probably looked at the Bedar trade like this is something we can’t pass up. Uh, and maybe, you know, looking at what Bedar is going to make next season, not wanting to pay that, wanting to repurpose those dollars into something else. I don’t know. I I I’m still sorting out how I feel. I don’t love it because I don’t trust this front office. On principle, I understand the decision-making, but they’ve sort of painted themselves into a corner with how people think about them. There’s just not a lot of confidence here. Well, and it seems like the bedard trade is the thing that really um kicked that into high gear. I think people were willing to to play ball on on the Cabrian Hayes thing because of the way he’s been hitting for a period of years. Um, not really seeing a path forward with him, not really seeing him as an asset. Um, even though he does have a gold glove, you know, caliber defense on his side. People didn’t seem that upset about that trade. I think Adam Frasier, people have well people have been over him since he returned. uh you know once the the Pirates traded him a couple years ago. I think Caleb Ferguson’s not a guy who’s going to rock the boat, but David Bednar gets dealt um for I believe the headliner was uh the Yankees eighth best prospect. His name I have it written down here, Raphael. Yep. Um so he’s the number eight prospect. Has had some pop in uh single day and double A this year. Struggling a little bit in the initial call up to AAA. He’s only been there since the 19th of July, but um listen, he’s got some power, but there’s questions about the contact, and there’s also um he he’s brought up as a great pitch framer, and I think Pirates fans are very tired of hearing about about pitch framing, especially when you’re talking about not like a Russell Martin type who was a savant and a professional at it, but a guy who’s still in the minor leagues. Yeah, I think the pitch framing stuff is way overcooked. And I mean, if they go to robos or a challenge system, whatever, man. I mean, they need offense. They need offense. And we don’t know about this trade unless this guy hits with the major league club. And I understand people who are upset about it because he hasn’t hit in AAA. It’s been 10 games. I’m not going to formulate an opinion on a guy because he hasn’t hit in 10 games in AAA. Um, I I would look at this objectively and Flores like has a very good resume, Adam. I mean, he was the 2024 minor league player of the year for the Yankees. Uh, WRC plus of 146. That was sixth last year in the Eastern League. Like, that’s very good objectively at an 841 OPS. Um, he’s a guy that MLB pipeline, baseball America, they all say a lot of really nice things about. There’s power potential, exit vo, all this stuff, like everything you would want in a prospect. Now, he’s he’s done it at double A and he hasn’t done it at AAA and they need offensive help with the major league club. All of that stuff can be true. Uh I I also look at some of the other guys. I know we’re going to get to them. And so, the total package of the trade, I kind of like Florence. I do. Um I just don’t like looking at all of this and saying this is going to be your solution for 2026 because it’s wrong. And so what that takes me to is well the Pirates probably don’t want to pay Brian Hayes $7 million next year because he’s not worth it offensively. They probably don’t want to pay David Bedar $8 million next year because he’s not worth it. You know, you can replace that production for cheaper. Okay, I’ I’ve scrapped together 15 million. We’re going to scrap together more money. Number one, is that going to get re reinvested in the team? And number two, are they going to do it wisely? and people on the outside, us Noah Hiles joining the the live stream like there’s understandable and deserved skepticism about that. So I and we can’t really answer it and whether whether it’s an actual fix until we see them spend that money on something else and do it wisely. Yeah. I’m going to welcome in Noah here uh in a second. I’ll set you up this way, Noah. Um, we’re talking about the these guys that have gone out and and every time we talk about KBrian Hayes, David Bednar, it’s well, they’re going to make a lot of money. They can reinvest that in the club next year. Um, there’s a lot of skepticism to that idea until people see it happen. I’m curious what your thoughts on your level of belief that that we’re actually going to see what we’ve been talking about and and they’re going to go out and spend this money on some players. I mean, they have to, right? Like it’s just I mean and I know that’s not a strong vote of confidence. I just don’t see how you can field a major league team. They’re just clearing up all this money and and all the talk leading up to this from the guy making these moves was that they’re going to make the team better for 2026. I don’t see how they did that. And I and I know we still have an hour left before this deadline expires, but I don’t know. I mean, what did they add that makes them better next year? A guy who just got to AAA. Um, a reliever who might be traded in the next hour, a high A, a couple high A guys, couple low A guys. I think their farm system might be a little better, but this to me felt like 2026 wasn’t the goal. And if that wasn’t the goal, then that’s fine. But it just everything that happened doesn’t really align with what they said they were going to do. So when you take that into consideration, it makes it kind of hard to imagine that they’re going to spend money with the goal to win in 2026. You know what they added, Noah? Financial flexibility. That’s what they added. They’re rolling in fin. They have cap space out the wazoo right now. Well, here I want to push back on that. I mean, that’s that’s that’s all we can say that they’ve added at this point. Well, I want to push back on that a little bit, too. And it’s like I don’t think it’s all this money. These guys were making what, a combined 20 million next year. In MLB terms, that’s a that’s a drop in the bucket. And what can you get for that? And I I wrote this down, too. I think the fact that you traded Kabrian Hayes to the Reds specifically undercuts that whole idea because if the Reds, who are probably your closest peer in Major League Baseball in terms of market size, um, ownership and the way that they approach things, if they saw the best use of their money to be Krian Hayes, what does that say about what’s available to the Pirates to upgrade the 2026 roster beyond KBrian Hayes? Well, I think it says that the Reds feel like they can do what the Pirates couldn’t do, and that’s get actual value out of Kabrian Hayes. Um, and the way they can do that is because they have better hitters. Kabrian Hayes is not valuable to a team like the Pirates because they don’t need an elite defender. They need offense. He’s a luxury. They don’t need a luxury. They need a certainty. The Reds have a better star talent than the Pirates have right now and Ellie de la Cruz. They’ve been able to sign guys more effectively in free agency at prices that they’re going to pay Brian Hayes. I mean, look at some of the free agents they’ve signed in the last couple of years. They’ve got a lot more value out of or those guys compared to what the Pirates have signed in free agency. And they’ve both been spending around the same amount of money. I just I don’t know. I don’t understand it. The the Bard trade to me is just I I don’t know if you guys have talked about that already, but there’s just so much I don’t understand about why they did that. The Hayes thing at the end of the day, I think they have a better chance at having a better offense by not having Brian Hayes on the roster. Yeah, the Haze thing made sense. I get that. Like he wasn’t he wasn’t I get it. Ben thing makes no sense. Yeah, I know. What are your specific uh issues with the deal? No, I just um because I know there’s a lot of them for a lot of people. I’m curious what’s bothering you the most. I have two sources connected to two of the finalists for David Badnar. I heard this week as early as this morning that the Pirates were asking for at minimum a top 100 prospect. That was the price point that one of the targets they had with one organization was the number 56 prospect in baseball. The catcher who was traded in the Duran deal. He’s 18 years old. He’s in high A. But that was what they were looking for. They were looking for a top 100 prospect or at minimum like I reported a top five prospect in an organization. I don’t understand why they settled on this return. If they couldn’t get that offered to them, which clearly looks to have been the case, then why make a deal? Why not just hang on to David Bednar? It feels like they settled and I don’t understand why they did that. If you’re gonna make a young catcher the headliner of this package, then why not get the best one? I I I don’t know. I don’t know if I don’t know what exactly was offered to them by other teams, but I know what they asked to other teams. And if that was their asking price, then what led that to change? Because this return does not reflect anything close to that. This guy that they got the headliner, I don’t have his name in front of me. He’s not going to be a top 10 prospect in this organization. That’s not good. Thing Raphael Flores, I’ve heard he’s going to be number 11 on MLB pipeline. Okay. All right. I’m I’m not defending it by any stretch. I just We don’t have a lot of position player prospects. He might get some shine. Yeah. Yeah, and there’s I think there’s one obvious theory for um you know why they would trade David Bednar. It’s because he only has one year of of club control left after this. And they they philosophically through history, there is not one guy that I can think of in my life that they have let get to free agency through the arbitration system. They either extend these guys, Andrew McCutchen, Stling Marte in the past, uh you know, Krian Hayes, Brian Reynolds in as is in the present, but they either sign them to those rare extensions or they trade them with club control left and there are no examples in between, which is is that just the way that they’re going to do business no matter what they’re saying about what their asks are. Well, why not trade him in the offseason, right? I think that’s what Noah is saying, too. And he’s not wrong. I why why I agree with you guys. I’m just setting that up as bad. No, I I I get your logic. I just don’t understand. If you took that stance with Keller, why couldn’t you take it with Bedar? And I know Keller has a lot more years of control, but their logic behind keeping Mitch Keller was because they felt they weren’t going to get the offer that they wanted from Mitch Keller. It seems like they didn’t get their asking price met for David Bnar. So why did they trade him? Yeah, that’s what I don’t understand. Yeah. And I mean off on sound found off on that. Yeah. I worry that it’s a Hail Mary out of desperation by Ben Cherington. Um I’m not sure what he would be trying to prove. Uh maybe if he scrapes enough money off the books that’s going to make him look favorable to Bob Nutunning. I don’t know. Uh that’s my suspicious side. Um, you know, like I’m not hung up on the fact that like they didn’t get another organization’s top five prospect. I think I think sometimes that stuff can get a little overblown. Um, fair. You know, I watched Hud Hudson Head get a bunch of prospect shine, you know, Eddie Yeen, all these these other guys that like we just don’t know and we need to come to that realization. But I’m with Noah on this. Like based on the rest of the market, based on what they said, based on what they’ve told us about 2026, how do any of these moves align with getting better in 2026? And they don’t. And so if I don’t have that move in front of me, I’m not going to make it. And if I have to wait until the off season to trade a piece, then I just wait until the off season. There’s no there’s no crime in that. Oh, if you’re Ben Harrington, you come in front of us later today and you say, “You know what? There wasn’t a deal that met our value. Um, I’m not going to trade guys away for nothing.” I guess he’d probably get crushed for that because it would result in the you have to be comfortable saying no line. Uh, but it’s reality. Don’t make a bad deal. And so, people are going to look at this are not going to be moved by the return because there’s nothing sexy we can, you know, present to them. If they would have gotten a top 100 prospect, I think this would be a lot easier to stomach. Um, obviously David Bednar is also not just a baseball player for a lot of people. He is a a goodwill ambassador on a team that does not have um many of those. He’s a local guy. I think you you’d probably put him next to Andrew McCutchen as the two guys who connect kind of on a community level from this team. You give up one of them in this trade. I I know that that doesn’t factor into these decisions ultimately, but um you know, how does his absence shape shape how we see the Pirates moving forward? It’s not going to sit well in the clubhouse. I’ll tell you that. I can’t imagine his friends on the team, the guys that he went up through the organization with, the guys that he took under his wing, can’t imagine they’re going to be thrilled to see that he was moved for that. if he was moved and it brought back even a guy with equal control. If it brought like Adolles Garcia just got traded for nothing from the Rangers, a team that was interested in David Bednar. If they got Adolles Garcia in like a number 20 prospect, at least that aligns with the idea of they’re trying to win in 2026. If they got Dalton Baro, another guy, year of club control remaining after this year. It’s not a long-term commitment, but neither was Bednar. It at least helps them feel like they’re doing something. The only way they can actually back what they said is by doing what we talked about when I first joined, and that’s spending some money this off season. And if they don’t do that, then I mean, this is like what in the world are they talking about? I’m seeing in the chat, Odoul Garcia didn’t get traded. I thought he was acquired. I saw the Odollos Garcia thing as well. Um yeah, pretty sure he was traded to the Mets, but yes. Um maybe that’s not confirmed yet. Maybe. I don’t know. But and that’s just and again that’s just one example of it. So So maybe he didn’t get traded. But my my point being is like I think in I’m just looking this up. There are actually like reports that saying reports of this are inaccurate. So apparently somebody leaked some bad dope out there. Okay. Well, anyway, he didn’t get traded, but you’re not wrong to believe that. No. Yeah. I mean, when there when there’s just a million things. So, yeah, that’s that’s my bad on that one. But the example still remains the same. It’s like if they would have got a big leager, I would have rather seen them do that because I don’t see how this helps them in 2026. And like you said, Jason, on the one end where it’s, oh, you don’t know how a prospect’s going to develop. And some of these top five guys in an org typically amount to nothing. Yeah. We don’t know how this guy’s going to develop. Yeah. I mean, everyone’s excited that they got or not everyone’s excited, but the the Pirates think they landed a catcher with pop with good size. Didn’t they just draft one of those a couple years ago? How’d that work out? Yep. I I mean, I I don’t I don’t understand. I don’t understand what they did. And unless they go out and they spend a significant amount of money, it’s not just spending the $7 million they would pay Hayes next year. It’s spending more than that. It’s not just spending the 9 million or 10 million or whatever you would have paid BNAR in arbitration. It’s spending more than that because if you just match what you let go of, I mean, clearly this wasn’t enough. They’re they’re in last place. Yeah. So, you have to spend more to get better, right? Am I going nuts here? No, because it’s not like you got cheap talent that makes the major league roster better. Yeah. I mean, you have to spend more money and you have to spend it better. That’s also the thing here that that I understand. I sympathize with people. I don’t have a good answer for it. Like, they’re basically banking on, well, we’re not going to pay a closer n million. Uh, we’re not going to pay Kean $7 million to play defense and not hit or whatever. I’m like, okay, good. But what track record do you have of spending money wisely under this regime? You you have nothing. You’ve made very few good trades. Maybe maybe none. Your free agent trade activity to try to address the offense thus far has been abysmal. And you also don’t spend a lot of money. So why should anybody believe that all of a sudden you’re going to get this right? that you’re gonna free up all these dollars and then somebody is gonna go on a spending spree this winter and like the Pirates are gonna add a bunch of money to their team. I mean, that’s like, you know, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory kind of fantasy. I just I no. Yeah. to reiterate just a point I want to hammer back on again. Like I thought the Hayes trade made sense because you just you if they even spend seven million which which I get again they need to do they need to spend more but if they just re they can reinvest exactly what they are paying KBrian and get more out of that position right because he wasn’t good enough for what they needed. David Bednar was like that’s the other part of it. It’s like, okay, well, if you spend that on the bullpen, are you going to get better than David Bedar or are you going to bank on other guys being better? I just nothing that I’ve heard from outside the organization, nothing that I’ve heard from inside the organization, nothing that we’ve heard in public record in press conferences from Ben Cherington aligns with what they’ve done this week. And like I I don’t know. Another thing here, I’ll throw this out there. I’m hearing that IKF isn’t getting moved. Why? Why? What are we doing here? Why? Is it because they plan on bringing him back? I mean, they’re try, but Yeah. Get out of here. Come on. They Yeah, I mean, they’re going to try. I’m sure. Like, you don’t just retain that guy with the idea of letting him walk for nothing. But I think they are. I think they’re about to do that if that holds. Unless Is that your third baseman next year then? Oh god, no. I mean, come on. That’s I mean, is it possible that they wouldn’t trade Isaiah Connor Falefa because there’s not enough of a market for him. But again, that’s I Yeah, like I would assume that’s why like they’re not getting the offers that they would like. There’s not a huge market for them. And I’m sure they like some of the things he can do. They’re probably going to use him more as a utility guy in these last months. I like IKF, but he’s making $7 million and has what a 635 ops. Yeah. And and there’s no guarantee he’s coming back. So it’s Yeah. You could either trade him for undervalue or you could get nothing. And even if you trade him away, you could still resign him. The Tigers did that with Flity. Yeah, they traded him. He won a World Series. They resigned him. I would imagine that IKF could return at a much cheaper cost. So I I don’t understand. I mean, I know you didn’t give up a ton. They gave up Charles McAdoo who’s hitting like 150 this year for the Blue Jays. So that was a nice I guess least by Ben there. Shout out him. But uh overall, I mean, even if he’s not getting the interest, get something for him. And then if you want him back, get him back. What do you need his leadership for in these next two months? What do you need his bat, his glove for in these next two months? These games mean nothing. I don’t I again, it’s just another thing where I I’m hearing these things. I’m on the phone with people. I’m texting people and I’m just like I don’t understand what they’re doing. Jason, um, in terms of spending, I think it’s easy to say we need to see them spend more because we all agree on that. But what does that spending look like to you? Because for a decade now since Avon Nova uh signed his multi-year extension, it has only meant single-year free agent types. Yeah. It has not meant um anything with any length. And I think we can talk about 2026 till we’re blue in the face, but um at some point you got to make moves toward 2027, 2028 shoring up those teams as well. Um, does should that not include a a veteran who is going to come here with some expectation of term and stability? Because that’s part of the problem. Who do that? Who would want to do that right now? Like, the three of us can’t decipher their direction. If you’re a major league player who you’ve played well enough to get a multi-year contract from somebody, why would you want to jump in like that? and and you’re going if if your standard is 76 wins, 76 wins and then backwards and then you might keep the GM, I’m sorry. If I’ve played well enough to earn a multi-year contract, I’m going to look elsewhere. I’m not going to have a lot of confidence that’s going to work out. I mean, yeah, I guess if they lay out a plan in the offseason about this is how we’re going to get better or this is what we’ve already done or this is what we see ourselves doing. Yeah, maybe they could convince me. Maybe if there’s a new guy in charge, somebody I really respect that that Major League Baseball respects. I’m not completely slamming the door, but I mean, right now, as we sit here today, they haven’t made a lot of coherent or successful moves. So, I I don’t understand why somebody who earned a multi-year contract would hitch their wagon to this when they could very likely, if you’re that good, go somewhere else. You’re going to have to overpay. Yeah. You’re going to have to overpay. you’re gonna have if if I mean I’ve heard from league sources that they’ve they’ve offered guys more money than some of the players they’ve signed and guys I’ll give one example they offered Verdugo I’ve heard from a source over seven million this offseason turned he signed a minor league deal with the Atlanta Braves so I don’t know I mean they ended up paying FAM and I think that that ended the Verdugo possibility, but that’s just like one example where you’re going to have to pay more. And honestly, the way to get other players interested is you have to go get an elite talent. If you go sign a Suarez or a Bregman, which they should have enough money to do, like if they signed either one of those guys, they’re still like at 110 120 million in payroll, which if you can’t afford to do that, then you shouldn’t own a team. Um, yeah, if you go sign one of those guys, that shows a commitment to the rest of baseball that you’re in, that you’re interested. But in addition to the the stigma, right, of the Pirates, guys also aren’t signing up here because I mean, let’s take a track. Let’s look at the track record of free agents that have come here. How many of them have had a good season at the plate? And it’s because they’re signing guys who a don’t have a ton of interest elsewhere. And when they come in here, they’re expected to perform above a level that they’re capable of reaching. They needed Rowdy Tles to be more than Rowdy Tles. They needed, you know, they wanted him to be 2022 Rowdy Tles. They wanted Carlos Sant Santana to be 2018 Carlos Santana. They want they they’re they’re hoping to get, you know, catch fire or lightning in a bottle with these guys or turn back the clock. And that’s not productive for the player. Some of the guys that they’re looking to sign, some of the guys that they could realistically afford are not going to thrive in an atmosphere where they’re going to come into a spot and be expected to do more than what they’re capable of. I look at certain guys that are going to be available this off seasonason. player, for example, that I think the Pirates would be very smart to sign is Willie Castro, an all-star utility man from the Twins. I think he’s a better hitting version of IKF. And Willie Castro works well in his current format because he has other competent hitters around him and he doesn’t have to be a top three hitter in his lineup. And that allows him to be an average hitter with a good glove. But when you bring him here, he’s going to be expected to be one of the top hitters because he’s going to be one of the top paid players. It’s just it’s a losing situation for anyone to sign up for unless you go out and pay someone who is so good that it is like a guarantee that they’re going to perform. And I don’t think they’re going to do that. I don’t think they’re going to bring in a Suarez or a Bregman or a Pete Alonzo or whoever else. This makes me worry about who’s going to be doing it too, guys. I mean, them giving the latitude to Ben Cherington to to move out such a significant piece as David Bednar. Like, is Ben really going to be the guy pulling the strings this off season? You know, spending the money, charting the plan. I mean, you’re kind of digging a hole right now for what they’re doing. And I don’t even mean that like figuratively. I mean, they’re they’re literally trying to like lay a foundation for a plan in the offseason, and you’re allowing the outgoing GM theoretically to make it for the new guy. I these moves make me question that strategy. And everything that I had heard leading up to today, and I still haven’t heard anything different, was that Ben was going to be gone, that he isn’t going to be the GM come the off season. But the fact that he’s out there trading Bednar and god knows what else before six o’clock. It just it it really worries me. And then I the other half of it is I look at how he has spent money, how he’s handled off seasons, how he’s tried to address deficiencies, and it’s just been horrible. It’s been absolutely horrible. And you know, they’re signing up for more of it. It It’s It’s frustrating. Let me ask you this, Jason. What GM could make this team a playoff team in 2026? Because I mean, look at what you have. Look at the obstacles you have to overcome if you inherit this job. You’re not allowed to blow it up and rebuild, which is clearly what needs to happen here. You don’t have a lot of prospects to trade. Yeah. And the prospects that you have that could net an established talent, you’re banking your future on. The moment Bubba Chandler comes up here, they need him to be better than Mitch Keller so they could trade Mitch Keller. The moment Connor Griffin comes up here, they need him to be the best hitter they’ve had since Andrew McCutchen. Well, okay. And they and they obviously, you know, they need more out of the guys here, but they just don’t have a lot of big league ready prospects. They don’t have a great farm system as a whole to deal prospects from, and you don’t have a lot of great major league assets to trade. You have one that can net you a a capable everyday big leager, and that’s Mitch Keller. And so, you don’t have a lot to trade, and you’re probably not going to have a lot of money to sign people with. So, how do you make this team better if you’re Ben Cherington? If you’re not Ben Sherington, how do you make this team better? Well, I mean, I would I would hold off on the David Bednar trade until this off seasonason, right? I agree that’s over. Yeah. No, I know. I know. But you’re asking whatever. Yeah. I mean, you have to win trades. They haven’t done that. I do think there are teams people better at spending money. Like Matt Arnold from the Brewers has spent, you know, he spent more than the Pirates certainly like the Brewers outspend them and it’s ridiculous, but the money that he does spend, they’re getting a lot more value there. and he’s putting together a plan that is, you know, based on prospects and whatever and then supplementing that people are more intrigued by. Um, I mean, that’s the type of GM that I think could win here. I’m not I’m not saying they will. I’m not saying that the Pirates are are bound for greatness, but I mean, I would have a small market GM, somebody with experience operating in a small market doing all of these things that seem to kick Ben’s butt every every single time that it comes up. Um, and I don’t know if it’s going to work. And again, you said it earlier, if you’re not going to spend, you know, a a marginal amount, if you’re not going to spend the same as Cincinnati or Milwaukee or these similar markets, like just just stop. Let somebody else do it. Give somebody else a try. It’s been nearly two decades. You have four winning seasons. I’m not defending all of it, but I do think there’s a more efficient way and a logical way of going about doing this. Like the Bednar trade makes no sense. They’re spending their their trades, the stuff they’ve done the past three off seasons now. Largely it’s it’s stuck. Find somebody else to do it. And they just tolerate too much nonsense. They’re just way too much patience that people read into, you know, they don’t care because that’s what their actions are telling. Yeah. I mean, I was real quick. My point was Matt Arnold, Theo Webstein, Jed Hoyer, whoever I think there are GMs that could build this to being a winning ball club. I don’t think they can do it in one year. Yeah. I think the clear situation, especially with Bednar and what they just did with that return and what their farm system looks like and everything, I think the clear answer here is they need to rebuild. They’re in a worse spot now than they were in 2019. I don’t think we can refute that. The farm system’s worse. The major league club’s worse. They the only thing that you could argue makes them better is because they have a better player than that 2019 team had. One better player and he’s through onethird of his time here already and probably not going to be here the entire six years. So, I think yeah, like you can you can hire a better GM, but if you bring him in or her, if you bring them in and expect them to build a winning team in one year, that is an impossible task. This is too big of a mess to clean up in 365 days or less in an offseason. You have to tear it down. And it makes you start wondering, you don’t do I How do you make this better without spending 70 million on payroll? I I agree with Nella, Jason, and I’ll tell you why. Um, I’m going to bring up two names that we were talking about on this exact stream at this exact same time a year ago. Um, Nick York and Billy Cook. Two guys that we’ve ner heard from since. Um, and I think it’s it’s to Noah’s point, they’re a big reason that I can’t believe in any trade they’re going to make or anything. Those guys haven’t we haven’t seen them. So, so why should I care what they acquire in any of these trades and believe that anything’s going to change if I know they’re not going to come up here and they’re not going to get an opportunity to show anyone, you know, what they can do. It just seems like there is a um it’s it’s like the the upper levels of the minor leagues for the Pirates are just kind of a a holding ground for it’s like a purgatory for these guys. You’re not wrong. I’m not I don’t disagree with any of that. All of those successful small small market systems that Pirates fans desperately want to see this organization emulate, they’re not built overnight, right? The Brewers became the Brewers from years of getting the draft right, which I think the Pirates are trending in that way. I I think their last couple of drafts have been really good, but they’ve developed well. They didn’t just win one good year of trades. They won years of trades. It’s I agree. They need to bring in someone who has seen what it takes to make a small market team win. But what it takes to make a small market team win is time. Is time and proper execution. Small market teams don’t turn it around in one year. Not in this sport. Not in this league. They’re too far away. Not in this situation. I I mean I’m at a point now where like it just I don’t see the logic in operating under the illusion that they can be competitive next year. I think they need to try and I think I I do think they can. I want to let you finish your point and then we’re gonna All right. No, no, that’s all I have. How do you think they can? All right. So, they have the hardest part of what they’re trying to do figured out. They have young pitching. Like if if you give me Paul skins, I’m gonna hold on to Mitch Keller at least for now. I’m gonna try to get my bat a different way. Maybe Braxton Ashcraft becomes a starter. I don’t know. Johan Odo, does he come back? Bubba Chandler is probably in my rotate. Like, you have some pretty good starting pitching depth. Can we agree on that? Yeah. Okay. And then I move to the bullpen. I think their bullpen can actually be reasonable. They’ve done a pretty good job finding like a soft tossing lefty setup man. You can go find that in the free agent market. That’s fine. Dennis Santana, I would hold on to him at this point. I might have even held on to Bednar for this reason that I think pitching and bullpen are that important. And so I’m going to make sure my bullpen is what this bullpen has been over the past couple of months. I feel good about my starting pitching. Now my offense is abysmal. I can’t tolerate and and so I need to go out and buy bats. Now one, I need to go spend a little bit more money. Trading Krian Hayes allows me to spend a little bit more. I’m not bringing back Isaiah Kinder Fa. they can do a better job of spending that $7 million. Um, there’s enough money there that they can free up. I think I counted at one point that if they get some of these guys off their books, they can get between 30 and $40 million to spend differently. And I don’t have to spend on pitching. I don’t have to spend on the bullpen. That is 100% spent on bats. Now, I would not allow Ben Sherrington to do that. But if you look at how they’ve been in some of these games, if you can get them to four runs, if you can get them to four runs, which I know it sounds like Mount Everest right now with the team we’re looking at now, but if you can just score a little bit more, I think this could be a halfway decent team. I’m not saying they’re going to go from zero to hero or anything crazy, I just But I do think I don’t think there’s a need to rebuild because of what they have in place with the pitching. You said $40 million, right? Yeah. So fanass 30 to 40 fangrass values a win which is one war at $8 million for an individual player. Yes. Yes. So you’re buying five war. I don’t think this team’s five war away from being they need 12 war. Yeah. You know like that’s how I look at it. Now you’re obviously the way to overcome that is like I can’t believe I’m using this example. They paid $4 million for Tommy Fam. Tommy Fam’s worth like 1.2 war. So they’re getting double the value for Tommy Fam. Arguably, and I’m not joking when I say this, the best free agent position player Ben Sherington has signed. People laughed at you when you liked that signing, Jason. You were right. The numbers, it did not look good early, but if he gets We came on late, baby. Yes, you did. Um I just look at this lineup and 40 million ain’t fixing it, man. Look at it. What positions do you feel good about going into next year? I’ll answer real quick. I feel good about second base. I feel good about center field. I feel good about shortstop because I think Connor Griffin’s going to be there at some point. For Oh, at some point. Okay. At some point. Not opening day, but I can find someone to be a replacement level player for the first 70 games. That’s fine. Um, and I feel good about Brian Reynolds’s bat being probably league average, maybe a little better. I don’t think I don’t completely write him off, but I don’t feel good about him as a fielder. I probably have Brian Reynolds as my DH next year. So, now we’re looking at both corner outfield positions. We’re both we’re looking at both corner infield positions and we’re looking at catcher. That’s more than half the lineup. Are you fixing that with $40 million? Nope. Probably not, right? That’s why I said it’s time to blow it up, man. Well, and I think it’s just it’s such a hill to climb because you’re what? You’re at a 69 win pace. I was doing the math off camera here. Um 69 win pace. What do you have to be to be in wild card contention? It’s got to be a little bit more than 500, right? Probably 84 is is the the low 86 87 or something last year, right? The bar can’t be that either though. Like if that’s your goal, be above average, then you’re wasting your time. You should be building to build a championship, not a wild card. The moment the Pirates stopped under the last regime, stopped building to be a division contender and just being, hey, we’ll be average and if we get hot and we win 87 games, we can sneak in. It all fell apart. That’s how it ended with the last regime. Yeah. That’s what we’re shooting for now, six years after that ended. load up. I I tend I can decide with Jason. I tend to side with with Noah on this. I just It’s not that I want that to happen. It’s not that I want to go through that process um emotionally commit to that. I’m sure Noah doesn’t. It’s just that I don’t I don’t see any other path available to get that many players because even if you listen, you go at it a different way. you take a chance. I don’t know if it’s possible or not, but I’m saying I would rather see them bring a new GM in here with a new idea and it might be better. I don’t know if it’s going to work out, but I’d like to see I’d like to see them tread water for a little bit until you make some changes. They brought in Justin Horowitz. How quickly did the draft start changing? What if they bring a new general manager and change some things developmentally? What if those start changing? What if you start finding other people’s discarded trash and fixing it? You can tread water enough. I’m not saying next season they can be elite. But you can tread water enough versus blowing all of this up. What if we met in the middle? What if what’s the middle? The the I think the middle could be bring in a new guy. You tell them you have one year to try to win now. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be a division title, but if they win like 84 games next year or even like 82 or 83, that’s a market improvement. And then you can say, “Okay, this guy knows what he’s doing. Let’s continue doing that.” You give him one year to try it, and if not, I’m totally fine with that. I I’m I’m on Paul. What? That’s what I would do. I would say, “You have one year to show me that you can win now. And if not, I’m making you trade Paul schemes.” Oh, yeah. Yeah. I thought you have to find Paul. I’m like, “Wait a second. That’s No. Yeah. I mean, I’d be fine with that. I I That kind of protects you against logic and the PL. I just I don’t I wouldn’t do it right away. Like I’m not saying this is a complete failure like the entire system because Ben Cherington hasn’t figured it out. No, Ben Cherington hasn’t been very good at his job. He’s done some parts of his job well. They found pitching. They do have some thing like you’re telling me the team with Paul Skins, Bubba Chandler, uh Ovido at all that Jared Jones should be here, Mitch Keller, one of the most attractive starting pitching options on the trademark. You’re telling me that team’s so bad that it requires a rebuild? Yeah, because I mean I guess and this is gonna be my final point because we’re getting 20 minutes away from the deadline. This is when Ben makes like two or three crazy moves. Um not crazy moves but moves like right right at the final minutes and makes me have to write a lot. Um I just think like when you look at the pitching I think there’s a lot of promise but what are the guarantees with this pitching staff right now? Paul and Mitch. And one of them is probably not gonna be here by opening day next year. I mean, and maybe he is. Maybe he is. But Bubba Chandler, Bubba Chandler isn’t a guarantee. He’s a highly rated prospect, but I think it’s a safe bet, but not a guarantee. Jared Jones is coming off of an elbow surgery. That’s not a guarantee. All of your other arms, be it guys who are already here like Burroughs and Ashcraft or even prospects like Barco, you’ve already had Tommy John once. I’m just saying it’s it’s it’s it looks optimistic and there’s reason for that to feel valid, but I’m I don’t think it’s a a a surefire bet. It’s looked good this year. I’m not saying I’m not saying it is either, man. And I’m not even saying it’s optimism. I’m I’m just saying there’s enough that I’d want to try again. Yeah, I would give it one I want to give someone else a chance. I’d give it one more try, but I just look around and I don’t know, man. I I mean they their their their two biggest hopes of improving the offense right now are a guy they just brought in from the Yankees who’s going to be in AAA and a guy who’s not even in double A yet and he’s the best prospect in baseball but he’s not even in double A yet. That to me indicates a team that’s not really close. Um we have a trade. Wow. All right. I got to get moving. Yep. Nice talking with you boys. All right. Sorry. Glad I could bring some optimism to the chat. later. Thanks, Noah. Thanks, Noah. As we continue the things that don’t make sense. There you are, Adam. Yeah, sorry. Technology getting straightened out there. Um, yeah, looks like Bailey Falter has been traded. Uh, do you have any details yet, Jason? No. No, it literally happened 30 seconds ago. Um, Jeff Passen was the one that broke it. Um, we’ll find out. Yeah, we’ll keep an eye on on that. Uh, update that. I mean there what are we doing here Adam? What are we doing here? But you you we’re we’re appearing under your theory. Um for everything that I agree with that Noah was saying they appear to be working under the theory. And I think this is the argument for why Ben Sherington may hold on to his job is that he can make a persuasive case to Bob Nunning that look, I’ve built the the pitching staff up. Um, and you know, we’ve been among the best teams in baseball at preventing opposing runs from happening. Um, so you should stick with me and you should believe in the guys that we have coming up and we can trade Bailey Falter and we can trade possibly Mitch Keller if it’s not today maybe in the off season and still backfilled that with guys who were cheap and very good. Um, that that seems to be the theory whether or not I agree with it. Yeah, I just boy I understood that. I look that that’s a discussion that’s over here. I get that. what they’re doing with Bailey Falter. I don’t even know how that funnels into what you’re talking about, Adam, because Andrew Heene is not going to be here next year. Then you’re going to have zero lefties in your rotation until Hunter Barco gets up here. So, you’ve built the pitching. That’s important. Bailey Falter has been pretty good. I I guess if you are getting really magnificent return on Falter, again, we’re we’re still waiting to see. It’s not out there. Um, man, I just I I don’t understand. I didn’t expect Falter to get traded. I don’t know why he would get traded. I’d like a lefty in the rotation. I think Falter has been fine. He’s actually been very good when he’s been on. And to this regime’s credit, they’ve actually done a lot for Bailey Falter and identifying him and helping him and he’s been a success story. But now they’re trading out somebody who’s going to be cheap next year. I believe it was only uh he’s going to be ARB two for next year. I just unless that trade return is massive, I don’t get it. But what is what is ARB two, Jason? Is it five, six, seven? Is it the number we’re talking about that we had to get off the books for Kabrian Hayes? I mean, is it close to that? What he’s going to make? Yeah. And Oh gosh. No. No. He’s making 2.2 this year. I mean, he’s going to be under five. He’s going to make what? 4.5 for a lefty with what Bailey Falter’s done. I I have no problem paying that. But that’s that’s not nothing. And I think that might be the argument is well, if you if you can reallocate that and bring up these guys that you feel so confident in, then he’s a he’s another one. That’s Andrew Heeney. That’s Andrew Heeney. He’s got an expiring contract. You trade him. I have no That’s exactly what you should do. Bailey Falter doesn’t have an expiring contract. Now, you could be looking at a starting rotation that has lost two pitchers. What if they trade Miss Mitch Keller? Then they’re going to lose three. I just that that doesn’t make any sense. Oh, thank you. I think someone pointed out that he was super two and I believe that is correct. So, he had three more years of team control after this one. Um, yes, that is correct. All right. I might have misstated that, but thank you, uh, Josh. Yeah. Oh, boy. I just I don’t get it, man. If you’re saying you’re going to be better in 2026, unless Okay, this is I’m saying this in just Adam, but what if Ben Cherington is like making every move he can to like clear this, you know, clear a bunch of money and say, you know what, I’m out. New guy, take your stuff. You know, as long as like he gets his salary, make Bob fire him, but like clear, you know, clean out the closet before you go. I don’t know. I don’t think that’s what’s happening. It’s just funny. Yeah. Well, I I think there’s I think there’s belief in this in this pitching regime, which and I’m going to continue off of Noah’s point. And and the reason that I struggle to be optimistic about the the chances of doing anything next year is that you’re starting from a place with the pitching where it’s as close to the top as it can be. And that’s very hard to do. It’s very hard to stay there. You know, you have to be one of the best organizations in baseball to do that year after year after year. Even with a guy like Paul Ske in your rotation, even with a guy like Mitch Mitch Keller, if he’s he’s still around a year from now, I don’t think you can take for granted that that you’re going to be in that top two or three teams in the National League. Um, you can still be very solid at pitching, Jason, but if you fall off to five, to six, to seven with this offense, then what are we doing here? I know. Well, the hope is that you can fix the offense. I don’t have any trust that they can. Do you? Does anybody watching this? Of course you don’t. They’ve given no evidence for that. But I don’t know. I guess they think, you know, go in that boardroom. If Bob Nutting’s looking at this, if you’re keeping Ben Sherington, I mean, you’re either delusional. Well, you probably are delusional anyway if you think Ben Shar Cherington’s going to fix this. But like, do you legitimately think that he’s going to start figuring out a way to add offense, to find position players, develop them, sign them, whatever, you know, year six, year seven into a regime? I I don’t get that. Like, I’m a patient person. I I definitely skewed on the side of like giving them a chance to the point where a lot of people watching this criticize me, and I understand that, but I’m going to be myself. Like, they’ve lost me. You know, if you lose me in this with all the patience that I feel like I’ve given them, man, I don’t I don’t understand it. The guy can’t find offense. Why, if that’s your biggest problem, are you going to allow him another time to go find offense? And you keep talking about 2026 is your goal and you keep trading guys for prospects. That doesn’t make sense. Yeah, I I completely agree. Unless you believe at least you believe unless you believe in the prospects, which clearly they do, that some of these guys are going to come up here and replace a Bailey Falter. Um, you know, I’m not going to say they can’t do that. I have some level of belief in that, but I still don’t think it’s good enough. And it’s taking you’re taking some level of a risk and saying, “Yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna go hardcore on these guys who are either on the fringes of the major league pitching staff, you know, going into this deadline or guys who are in AAA, guys who are in double A, all these names that that we’ve been talking about. Bubba Chandler being one of them. Um, who who I should we’ve been talking about him since March. Jason, like if you believe so much in in in Bubba Chandler and if if we’re going to sit here and try to create a theory in which there’s a potential chance in 2026, then why is he still not here? Yeah, I don’t I don’t have a good answer for you. I mean, he hit some tr some turbulence there for sure. Um maybe that was inflicted on, you know, by the Pirates them not bringing him up. Maybe he was upset about it. I don’t know. Um, you know, I’d have them up now. I don’t understand. I, you know, wait probably waiting until after the trade deadline at this point. I think it’s a lot easier. You made it this far. But yeah, I mean, these are valuable reps to get up here and and soak up this time. Once again, it’s stuff that doesn’t square with their stated goal of competing in 2026 because if you want to compete in 2026, Bubba Chandler is obviously a part of that. These are valuable innings to eat and they’re not giving them to him. It just it it’s very hard to follow. And so, by the way, Adam, there Noah tweeted the two prospects they’re getting back, left-handed pitcher Evan Cisk and first baseman Callen Moss. So, I’m I’m looking at these guys while we’re talking. Moss is at high A this season. 270 average, seven home runs, 790 OPS. He is 21 years old. I mean, whatever. I I don’t I don’t I don’t I don’t care. It’s so far away. It’s so far away from 2026. Are they saying there’s a 28-year-old uh I’ve seen in the chat a 28-y old lefty? Is that the pitcher? Is he a Has he been in the big leagues? Cisk. What’s it? Evan Cisk. So, they got a 28-year-old pitcher who hasn’t made the made it to the big leagues. That’s the tra I don’t I don’t even know. I’ve never heard of Evans Cisk. We’ll listen to it or we’ll find out together. I am pulling up the baseball reference here. Evan Cisk. Uh, goodness gracious. No, he has not been in the major leagues. Yeah, he pitched five innings with 11 strikeouts and a 1.87 whip. Well, I mean that must have been a really good five innings. 28. 28. Like that’s not that much younger than me, Jason. Like I could still be in the minor leagues and considered a prospect. Yeah. Five. and he’s a he is a reliever. So, great. Um I got a text from an agent saying the uh the Bailey Falter return is um not good. I’ll put it in brackets. The fact that you traded again with Kansas City, a team you just dealt with on the Adam Frasier uh deal a couple of weeks ago. Um, does that not make this feel like a a dump of on some level? Because like you waited till the last minute, were hoping someone was calling and then you were taking whatever Kansas City was able to give you after you were already if this was a serious deal, wouldn’t it have gotten done weeks ago? I don’t know. There’s a lot of dump vibes going around right now, Adam. I can’t decipher my dumps. This is uh I I don’t know if one relates to the other. I really don’t. I mean, does it matter really? Like, I I don’t see a need to trade Bailey Falter. Like we said before, the only thing I see a need to do is make my team better for 2026. Um, and if if we would be looking at return that was like really really good and they got a bat that was close to the major leagues, he might be blocked by Kansas City or something, we’d say, “Okay, all right, that makes sense. I can understand that.” You know, you take the chance. We’re talking about a 28-year-old reliever with five innings of experience and a 21-year-old at high A with an OPS under 800. What are we doing? It’s I’m beginning to think more seriously about my theory that they’re just clearing as much money off the books as possible. And maybe Ben is just like ingratiating himself to Bob saying, “Hey, man. Look, like I I got all this money off your payroll. You sure you want to get rid of me? I don’t know. It’s all I got. I could trade Bailey Falter for a 28-year-old reliever in I know you might do better. You might do better. Although he has what? A one 169 RA or something. That’s pretty good. Where is he? Uh where even is Kansas City’s AAA affiliate that he’s been doing this for? Uh Omaha. Omaha. Okay. Um yeah, I’m I’m trying to recover in Omaha. Don’t Don’t rip Omaha, Adam. Look at that. He’s Well, I mean, he should be experienced in Omaha, too, because he’s been there since 2022. If you need a restaurant recommendation in Omaha, Evan Cisk is going to be your guy. He should he should definitely have the places scoped out by now. Uh it looks like Taylor Rogers um we hardly knew Ye has has been the guys are saying in the chat to Chicago. Um I guess we’ll keep an eye out for the return there. Um, given what you just got for David Bednar, can you have any real expectations with that? I mean, that’s that I look at that and that’s that looks like money they were getting rid of. It all looks like money they’re getting rid of. And what else are they doing? Trying to bolster Greensboro for a playoff run. I that that’s all I’ve seen. Again, let’s let’s step back here for a second, Adam, and talk about their stated goal. Once again, they were they want to be better in 2026. How does this position them to do that? Objectively, like obviously the players aren’t going to do it. So, what they’ve done is objectively, again, they freed up some money. They’ve gotten, you know, lottery ticket type younger prospects. Maybe Raphael Flores amounts to something. I’m not sure anybody else that I’ve heard today would really have a chance to contribute uh in 2026. So, it has to be the money that they’re going to spend. And so what they’re going to do, at least as we know it now, is they’re going to let an either Cherington or a new GM go and repurpose these dollars into the major league roster and hope that they did that enough to improve upon what’ll probably be a, you know, 67 69 win season or something. And so you’re going to be with 30 to $40 million, whatever it is. You think you’re going to jump from 69 to 84 85 wins. I just don’t see it. You should be winning more trades to get more young talent back and they haven’t done that. Yeah. And it doesn’t seem like the purpose was to win trades. It seems like the purpose was to clear the money. And Right. I’m I’m I’m running out of things to say, Jason. like it’s it’s it’s getting more and more difficult to talk about them as a competitive entity when this is when this is what you’re doing and I’m going to I’m dovetailing with this is that you still have Isaiah Connor Falefa here unless we hear something it’s just about the deadline so things can happen after the deadline we said that’s at the top of the show but we’re going to go for a few more minutes see what else happens if Andrew Heaney moves if if some of these guys that we’ve talked about moved that it very much seems like there they got guys on this this roster that other teams don’t want and they can’t they can’t shed the money either. Um so that that was like the bare minimum was like when you and I were talking a couple weeks ago on our Thursday show, what would you like to see? You wanted to see them move these guys successfully, these these guys on the on the rental contracts. If they don’t even accomplish that all the way, like what are we talking about here? Yeah. I mean, I’d like to know more. I I can’t Look, here’s what I mean. I I don’t know what they got offered for Andrew Heene or Tommy Fam or Isaiah Kinder or Falefa. Like, if it was literally zero, I I guess they should be criticized either way. I don’t know. I’m kind of thinking through this as we talk about it. Um, yeah, because you’ve added players that are so bad or so unwanted that you can’t even flip them for anything. It’s it’s just frustrating, you know what I mean? I I’m trying to square this in real time and Okay, I think we might have more news here. I’m seeing it. H He and Santana staying. Is that Yeah, I’m seeing that in the comments. Um, I don’t know who what the new source is for that. So, let’s let’s stay tuned. That’s fine from MLB. He’s saying the Pirates will not be trading either Henene or Dennis Santana by the trade deadline per source. Okay. Yeah, I think I think why are you keeping Andrew Heene? There must have been no market because there’s no reason for you to keep him around. Right. when we sit here in January, this is this is why it is such a a complete failure is because when we sit here in January and they sign guys like this every year uh of the Cherington regime and some of them were worked out a little bit, some of them haven’t, but they sign a guy like Andrew Heeney and we say, “Okay, well maybe he can help this rotation in the next two three months and if they stink then they can get something for him at the deadline.” That’s half of the justification for some of these deals that they’ve made is okay, you’re going to give this guy57 million for one year. And with that money, you’re buying the chance that he could be good enough to help you compete and you’re buying the prospect that you hope to be able to flip him for. Sure. At the end of it, and you don’t get a prospect for. Yep. Yeah. you’ve and I mean if Fam stays, if Andrew Heeney stays, like that’s basically $10 million that you’ve spent you got no prospects for. Obviously, their performance down the stretch, it doesn’t matter. You’re not going anywhere. Maybe, again, here’s my um suspicious mind. You think Ben Cherington didn’t trade those guys because they might actually help the Pirates win a few more games to save his job? To save his job. So the win total at the end of it is actually better. Is there any way that this that that this can’t have been decided? And is there any way that Bob Nutting is sitting in the owner’s box in September watching the difference between win number 67 68 69 70 and say well this I mean that that last home stand really changed my mind. They went out with a flourish. I best I guess we better keep him. There’s there’s no way that that he hasn’t made a decision on on this at this point, right? Well, I mean, look here, my interpretation, I’m going to try to talk without getting myself in trouble. My interpretation or my view on this situation prior to today was that Ben was as good as gone. He was as good as gone after the deadline. I didn’t know if that meant in August, September, the off season. Um, I don’t know if they knew, but he nunning has been not the least bit pleased with Ben Cherington’s work, nor should he be. Um, what Cherington has done today makes me rethink that premise. I Why else would you trade David Bedar and why else would you clear up or clear up as much money as you possibly can just for someone else to spend it? That doesn’t make sense. Um, and a one funny text from another agent. This is good. Um, Royals people can’t believe the trade for Bailey Falter. So, yeah, it seems that Ben’s kind of getting laughed at for the falter one and and probably for all of the day like outside of the key Brian. Ben had a decent day yesterday with the key Brian trade, but today is not a good day. I I can’t point to anything that they’ve done and says that and say like this is good. I just can’t. Sorry, I got off topic from what you asked. It’s just sort of crazy, man. Now, we’re just interpreting this in real time. That’s what makes it it fun. Well, I don’t know if this is fun, but it’s something. Um, Noah is reporting that the return in the Taylor Rogers trade is uh Ivan Brethroer. Uh I don’t know if I’m pronouncing that correctly, but he is in high a hitting 221 uh with four homers. uh 710 OPS in high a um consider consider that part of the return in the Kabrian Hayes trade. I guess uh breadthrower by by the way breadthrower. It’s breath breath breaththrower. I don’t know where the factors into how it’s pronounced. That’s that’s going to throw me until we’re given an exact pronunciation. But regardless, if we had a pitcher with the last name of breadthrower though, I would feel much better about the trade. I don’t care about his stats. He’d be fun to write about at least. Um, but yeah, Jason, he just seems like a guy here. Uh, he’s slightly below average in terms of age for the level at 22. Um, but I think Sammy Stfur is still the headline return from the Kabrian Hayes trade. I don’t think this really changes opinions of that. uh one way or the other. So, um let’s count up real quick or I’ll do it. How much have they saved today? Let’s do this in real time. Like basic or or throughout the deadline. Like with Rogers off the books, you’re essentially saving 7 million on Kebr, right? Like we can subtract 7 million. Bedar was 5.9. Falter is 2.2. Am I missing anybody else that went off the major league roster? um either than Taylor Rogers doesn’t I like think count. Right. Yeah. Uh so yeah I I think and if you what you adjust Benedar a little bit higher you adjust Falter a little bit higher for next year. I mean Ben’s chopped 15.1 million off of this year’s payroll and we can add arbitration increases. You know probably I’d say an extra five million off of that. So, you know, you’re looking at around 20 million that he’s cut off of next year’s payroll. And then then let’s say you’re not going to pay Isaiah Conor Fa um right even if you don’t trade him. So there’s what 7 million there. Um 4 million for Tommy Fams and so you’re at 11. Um Heene Yeah. So you’re Caleb Ferguson. Forgot about that. That was three. Yeah. Okay. Three. Three is not nothing. So you’re probably approaching 30 somewhere between 30 and 40 is where it settles out in terms of what you’ve opened up to spend. Um I I just like if you’re going to spend it on one of your guys, Jason, I you can have you can have 90 million. To me, that doesn’t that doesn’t fix your problem next year. You need guys aren’t going to come to a team without any sort of plan or promise of winning. They’re just not. That’s the same problem they’ve gone up against. Like Noah was saying, they’ve offered guys deals. Cherton said that two years ago at Piratesfest. They’ve offered guys multi-year deals. Guys, turn them down. They don’t want to come here because they don’t think they can win here. And they’re not wrong. Uh Noah says on Twitter, um and people are saying in the chat, too, but I just wanted to check and make sure. Uh he was told by a team source that Bailey Falter was a non-tender candidate. leading to, I guess, trading him for two guys outside the top 30 of of the Royals organization. Why is he a non-tender candidate? I mean, the the only conclusion you can come to is money in my opinion. I mean, if we can pitcher in his second year of arbitration getting a raise from 2.2 million, who has actually been one of your decent starters? Uh what what he’s got a 373 ERA and he’s making $2 million. How is he a non-tender candidate? That’s asinine because you can pay because I I would assume that the argument Jason is that you can pay Bubba Chandler uh what Thomas Harrington you can pay them the minimum and so whatever that difference is matters to that. I mean that’s but that you’re almost getting into Juan Nassio crap there. I mean that’s it’s a different of hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, or 1.5. It’s less than $2 million difference from what he’s making this year. Maybe say it’s two or three million dollars difference. That’s that’s the level that the Pittsburgh Pirates are trying to pinch pennies at for a guy who’s productive. Yeah. I It’s I’ll be honest, I thought Falter’s numbers were a little worse than that. Like I thought his RRA was like four and a half or maybe north. And I’m thinking like as I was saying that I’m like is my argument gonna like lose steam if I try to say like non-tender candidate but his RA is really 4.79. Yeah, you can recreate that blah blah blah with that RRA for 2.2. I mean, you’re right. That’s the only excuse is money. And it’s a pathetic excuse. And it gets tiring. Like I understand being cheap. I understand being a small market team. I understand wanting to get bang for your buck, all of that stuff. I I’ll go along with it. Like, I follow the Rays and the Guardians and all these teams very closely and frankly, I’m very interested by it. That’s just stupidity or or cheapness or an insult to fans or something. And it makes me really mad. Like, you got a guy performing on a $2.2 million contract. He’s done extremely well, an ERA sub4. That’s not a non-tender candidate. That’s not That’s a guy who’s performing really well. It’s a non-tender candidate because you’re cheap and you don’t want to pay him for his labor. That’s why it’s a non-tender candidate. A non-tender candidate is somebody who’s not worth the money. If he had a $7 million contract and he had a five and a half ERA, that’s a non-tender candidate. I I just it’s it’s frustrating. Sorry. No, I mean I think it’s hard to look at this deadline as anything other than maybe a failure that was already in motion, right? Because you can’t get rid of the guys that are making a lot of money that are on expiring contracts. So, you can’t save that money because they were so bad when you acquired them um and have not there’s no market for them. So, you you’ve failed in that regard in failing to get rid of the guys you probably wanted to get rid of and that the fans would have liked to see you get rid of. and you failed to bring in anything that moves the needle for 2026. All you’ve done is open up in MLB terms a relative pittance and and it feels like they are chasing the Francisco Liriano deal that was signed 12 years ago, something like that, right? 12 13 years ago before the 2013 season, um where they signed him for a million dollars, had him on a multi-year deal. uh they got way more production out of him than than would have been suggested um by his underlying stats at that time. Um and that’s been the theory to to what Noah was saying earlier in in the show that you’re going to get more out of Ratty Tles than and his underlying numbers indicate that you’re going to get more out of Tommy Fam, all these guys that they’ve brought in on one-year deals. Um it it’s it’s a failure on all levels and I just cannot imagine how this farce continues for one more day. Like I there’s no reason for us to be talking about this till October. This is a great great comment in the chat. Adam Peter Terry says, “Hey, can we hear something about the good we got in these trades? Enough of the negativity, please.” Peter, I respect the passion. People who are here all the time will tell you I’m generally a pretty optimistic person. I can’t tell you anything positive about these trade returns. They literally acquired a 28-year-old with five innings of major league experience. They acquired a 21-year-old who’s in high A who has a sub 800 OPS. I I I don’t know what to tell you. Like even the David Bedmar trade, we talked about that for a little while at the B. I can kind of get there. I understand what like what they liked. You know, Raphael Flores, I keep wanting to call him Raphael Perez, but Raphael Flores was the Yankees 2024 minor league player of the year. He’s done some really good things at DoubleA. I get it. The number two guy in that trade’s hitting 209. Batting average isn’t everything, but it’s certainly something. The third guy in that trade is 21, and he just got out of the Florida Complex League. Like all of the trades that they’re making while trying to get people to believe that 2026 matters to them are for guys in low A, high A, that are so far away. They’ve done nothing to aid the 20216. The only thing they’ve done is freed up a whole bunch of money. Not a whole bunch of money. That’s that’s a misnomer. They’ve freed up by their standards a little bit of money to spend it in the off season, I guess, on offense. I just I don’t trust them to spend money. You shouldn’t trust them to spend money. You shouldn’t trust them to address their deficiencies because they haven’t done it. And I’m sorry, Peter, it just doesn’t have anything to do with the positives on the trade return because there are none. It’s not good. Uh John Haymon reports that Steven Quan is st staying in Cleveland. There was some buzz on Pirates Twitter earlier in the day about him when it was thought that he might be available. But, um, that’s exactly the guy you went into this day thinking like there’s a controllable bat, been to All-Star games. Um, see what you can do to acquire him. They didn’t they didn’t do that. Um, they didn’t they didn’t do anything approaching that. Um, I I think they said what Ken Rosenthal is also reporting that they uh the Pirates did not trade three players on expiring contracts, Tommy Fam, Isaiah Connor, Falefa, and Andrew Heeney. nor did they move Mitch Keller, who might have brought them the most value return. Um, okay. Someone in the chat said that they did not want to do that, but that’s not what Ken Rosenthal said. So, um, but he’s he’s reporting it definitively. So, it looks to me, Jason, like they’re done. It looks like it. Yep. Um, uh, was that Rosenthal saying? Yes. The Pirates are not good at telling us this is it. I covered the Penguins and I covered the Pirates and I’ve covered probably 11 or 12 deadlines. And the Penguins, you’d always get the text, we’re done, nothing else, you know, gym at whatever time. We don’t hear that with the Pirates. So, oh my I just keep getting texts from people who are angry about this and I’m I’m with them. I mean, I So, we’ll we’ll see if they’re done. It certainly looks like it. Um, okay. Rosenthal two minutes ago. They did not play about I can’t understand it, man. I really can’t. I’m gonna have to write a column off of this. It’s not going to be kind. It can’t be kind. I have to write my opinion. And my opinion is I don’t understand this. And I think you’re insulting people’s intelligence to try to get them to believe this crap. Is is this a is this a low point of of our lifetimes, Jason? Or at least our adult lifetimes of of being around this team? Because I can’t listen at the at the depths of um 2007, 2008 when you were trading good players like Xavier Needy, Jason Bay, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, you at least felt like there was something resembling a plan. And I don’t I don’t see anything resembling a plan here. And I think that this is that is the the most frustrating thing if you’re a fan is I think people people there’s no logical path forward here. It Adam it hasn’t made sense. Sorry I keep drifting away from my microphone. It hasn’t made sense from the moment they fired Ben or for the moment they fired Derek Sheldon. Really? I mean that that might be my column. That might be the opening to my column. It hasn’t made sense then. It doesn’t make any sense now. I thought it was extremely dangerous to allow Ben Cherington to navigate another trade deadline. And sure enough, he screwed it up. This is this is pretty much worst case scenario. The only thing they didn’t do is trade Mitch Keller. I’m glad they kept him. But the rest of these trades are just horrendous. It’s literally all salary dumps to go spend money that they probably won’t spend or they won’t spend wisely in the offseason. Um, yeah, and and I think that is the if we’re if we’re trying to if you want a positive spin there, Michael in the chat who still says, “We have no idea who’s coming back.” We have a relative idea who’s coming back, Jason. There’s there’s people whose jobs depend on these things, who scout these guys at a way higher level than me or Jason possibly could who who come to opinions, and that doesn’t mean that, sure, maybe they have a future star among this group. Um, yeah, you know, but it’s a lottery ticket. That’s what it is. People understand that I think at this day and age in baseball that these are lottery tickets and sometimes people win the lottery, but that doesn’t mean that the process you went through to buy the, you know, $10,000 worth of lottery tickets was a good one. Um, and so that’s that’s where I’m coming from of I’m not going to rule any of these guys out completely and say, “Oh, they’re all bums. They only got a bunch of bums.” But this is how baseball works in this day and age. And it doesn’t help you in 2026. Ben Sherington is on record as saying that. That’s what it should be. It’s year three of Paul skins. Your fans have sat through all kinds of slop. They’ve they they’ve listened to you talk about rebuilding and fixing and urgency and this should continue our march toward winning and God knows what other words salad’s been thrown out there. They deserve to have a winning baseball team. And then you make these moves. When you say our goal is winning in 2026, I’m sorry, Michael. It’s not about the individual players. These guys can they might be the nicest people ever. Evan Cisk might, you know, tow my car when it’s broke down. I don’t know. But I want to see them acquire guys who can actually help them win this season. Everybody else should want that, too. This has been long enough, and they didn’t do that. And so, again, I keep repeating myself, but in order to win in 2026, we now have to trust the Pirates to spend money and spend it wisely. I’m sorry, I’m not going to do that, and I wouldn’t imagine anybody else would either. Yeah. And to just to finish the point I was making, the only saving grace is and I’ve been talking to you about this for maybe years at this point, Jason, um you know, on our Thursday show and at different times we’ve hopped on podcast is at least they didn’t pull a Matt Morris. At least they didn’t pull a uh Chris Archer type deal where you make something out of desperation, something that’s truly franchisealtering. And I think Mitch Keller might have been the only guy that was possibly available um in this situation that fits that bill. Um, but at least on paper, you didn’t do something that was so immediately clear uh to be a desperation type of move that you can move forward from. Maybe we’ll think about Bailey Falter that way if he goes on and and dominates some other places and um you only got two guys outside the top 30 for him. But otherwise, that seems to be the saving grace here is that if Ben Cherington is fired, you avoided a disaster that sets you back years um in terms of developing guys. you know, you’re not sending away $10 million back in 200 what was that 2007? That was a lot of money. Um, I mean, I get you there. I I do get you there. And some of that, like, again, if they would have traded the guys on expiring deals and nothing else, I would have been fine with it. Um, and I I guess the piece of intel I don’t have is that some of the guys on expiring deals just might not have had a market. You might have tried to trade them and you just couldn’t. And that’s something to be mad about certainly in general this regime, but it doesn’t change anything and you’re just going to fire Cherington hopefully in the offseason. I just I feel less certain about that given his actions and I based on what he said, I don’t understand how any of this stuff adds up. Well, we will we’ll continue to find out. I think uh Noah and Colin and and yourself will be in on the Ben Sherington press conference on the other side of this. Um, Jason, I’m out of things to say. Anything else in your mind? I’m good. I’m gonna I’m I’m charged up. I’m gonna go make some more coffee and write. Okay. All right. Everybody for watching. This has been awesome. Our I’m looking at our concurrent views up there, Adam. It It’s cool to see how many people care about this stuff. You guys rock. What a great And we will we will press these guys. Don’t worry. Um, they will be I promise you I’m not going to clothesline them, but we will ask questions. Yes, that’s our job. um you know to be fair and hear them out but offer fair opinions and I think that’s what we’ve done here. Um so yes, just to reinforce Jason’s point, thank you guys so much for joining us. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to our Pirates channel. Um we haven’t been doing as many live streams lately. Uh but this was a great success. So if you’re new here, if you’re just hopping on uh to vent about the trade deadline, please subscribe to the channel. Please like this video if you enjoyed it. Help us out in the YouTube algorithm. We always appreciate that. Uh, I believe Noah and Colin at least will be back later on with a trade deadline recap. So, you can look forward to that and I’m sure there will be plenty of fallout to come. So, thanks again and we will talk to you real soon. Thank you for checking out this content from PostGazette Sports. If you watch this video on YouTube, please like the video and subscribe to our channel. For all of the sports coverage the Post Gazette has to offer, visit post-gazette.com.
Post-Gazette sports columnist Jason Mackey joins host Adam Bittner live to react to the MLB trade deadline and the moves the Pirates do — or do not — make.
How should we evaluate deals to this point? Which have sent names including David Bednar, Adam Frazier, Caleb Ferguson and Ke’Bryan Hayes out of Pittsburgh? How much will the bullpen and the city miss local hero Bednar? Was GM Ben Cherington right to move on from Hayes, who was under contract for several years beyond 2025? What can we expect from acquisitions like Cam Devanney, Sammy Stafura, Taylor Rogers and Jeter Martinez? And how many more trades will transpire involving names like Mitch Keller, Isiah Kiner-Falefa and Tommy Pham?
Our duo takes you through the 6 p.m. deadline with all the news and reactions. Pirates insiders Noah Hiles and Colin Beazley may also make appearances.
30 comments
New prospect coming in….. breaking….. new hitting prospect in low A ball, Edward Shitslinger, 27 year old middle infielder. .219 2 HR, .575 SLG.
Bob Nutting & management team are Total Idiots! I used to attend at least 10 games per season, NO MORE.
Yeah those idiots will play Triolo now everyday instead… because well, they’re idiots
The Pirates front office exemplifies the "Peter Principle" , i.e. you rise to your level of incompetence!
The return for Falter and Bednar is unacceptable. Cherington should have stopped after the Hayes trade.
And why, just WHY do you get TWO damn catchers in the same deal?!?!??! My god
With an organization short on outfielders how did he not get one outfielder?
How is Ben Cherrington not fired yet?
As a lifelong Pirates fan:
I hate this team. It sucks. It has gotten progressively more infuriating over the DECADES. Bob Nutting was the cheapskate nail in the ply-wood coffin.
The old timers who were Pirates would be spinning in their graves if they saw what has been done to this team.
The fact the MLB doesn’t penalize the Pirates for tanking is beyond me, and way overdue.
Did Noah really say the guys he was brought up through the organization with about Bednar…?
You can’t blow up the pitching they have now! No way!! If you can add two good bats they will be better right off the bat
You don’t have a clue!
BC just took us into the gutter in a middle finger. He got nothing for the trades and intentionally kept everyone on expiring contracts. Just about every guy was single A nobodies. Not one hitter. This was intentional and shocking. MLB really needs to intervene with the Pirates. This is not just incompetent management. They are basically trolling their own fans and the league dumping guys for nothing intentionally.
Is anyone really shocked by this?
We went backward…great job guys at least some one knows what to do.
11 and 15 correct Noah!!
Bad publicity for not paying it coming up with s contract?? Lol
How much ya wanna bet they bring IKF and Pham back???
Falter return is worse than shitty…..
Jason, there is no good way to make sense of what happened at this deadline…..
Absolutely nobody should go to PNC when the team returns home. Empty stadium is the only way changes may be made.
Being upset about these trades is moronic. Ke'Bryan Hayes being traded is an A+ move by all accounts. He's one of the worst batters we've ever seen in a Pirates uniform that got this many chances. The defense was amazing, but Andrelton Simmons, a significantly better defender, was out of the league by 32. Ke'Bryan has had a .290 slugging in back to back seasons and has chronic back problems, getting rid of him only helps this team. David Bednar has been a dominant closer for the last 2 months, but that doesnt negate the 2024 season of agony and his first two months this season, he was terrible. I wouldve liked a bigger return too, but he doesn't command a top 5 prospect with his history as he can just be awful tomorrow. The pirates dont have any players that demand MLB ready top players we offloaded bad players for lottery tickets
So they traded for another catcher? Wtf the commissioner needs to make nutting sell this team what a joke
Paid Heaney $5.25mm, and trade Falter??? Really??? A holes.
This may have been the most entertaining podcast in my history. If only the Pirates front office had the passion that the three journalists exhibited, we would be so better off. Good work, and thanks guys.
The two happiest people in Pittsburgh are Hayes and Bednar.
It is not as simple as adding bats. Their team defense is also absolutely terrible.
F this team. Nutting doesn't care about anything other than how much money he can get the stupid fans to put in his pocket. Trade our good players for their crap players. Because we have pay our good players and we don't have to pay their crap players.
I wouldn’t hire Cherrington to clean a port-a-john. He continues to prove that he can’t do the job.
Spend more money? Who wants to sign with them? Players of value will sign elsewhere. They’re not coming to Pittsburgh.
By the way, how many catchers do they need in the organization? The fact that they added two more speaks volumes of their lack of confidence in the trio on the 40-man. And thinking they wasted an overall no. 1 on Davis is frustrating.