Are Josh Giddey & the Chicago Bulls FINALLY Ready to Agree on a Deal? | CHGO Bulls Podcast
Panda Watch. Wait, no. Giddy watch. What up, Bulls Nation? We got a live CA Show Bulls coming up for youall right around the corner on today’s show. Brett Seagull with the latest reporting. Are the Bulls and Josh Giddy close to finally inking a deal? We will talk about that. Plus, did Rick Carile just say something on a podcast recently that made AK sound smart? We’ll discuss it next. I’ve been What’s going on, Bulls Nation? Welcome in to the CO Bulls podcast coming to you live from our studios here in West Loop, downtown Chicago. I’m Peek Bulls_pek. That’s big day. BWL sports will the goalie perfectly quafted as always. Will_godle and the queen of the controls. Add to the list movies she’s never seen. Anchor man. Get it. Hand to watch. Wow. One and two. Oh man. Two. Don’t worry about it. Watch two. In case the fence I think I’ve seen anchor man. She’s probably seen it. I’m maybe giving her too much defense here. But like just cuz she has seen it doesn’t mean that she’s memorized every single line. You guys are so good. Like I don’t think you guys realize that you are in like the 99th percentile of retaining lines from movies. I’m pretty positive that I’ve seen it cuz I remember many scenes from it. I mean it’s like give us a scene. It’s one of the most iconic lines spoken by Paul Rudd in his entire filmography. I remember finishing it and feeling disgusted that everybody like loves that movie because I was like that was horrible. That’s a bad take. And so that goes awful. One of my favorite Paul Rudd lines is I think it’s from Forgetting Sarah Marshall where he’s he like is in the bar and he like sees Jason Seagull’s character again for like the second time. He’s like, “Oh yeah, you’re that guy from Kaiser Permanente.” You’re that guy Kaiser. What? No, man. You gave me a surfing lesson earlier. So, hey, look, man. If you get attacked by a shark, are you going to quit surfing? Yeah, probably. That’s That’s a very slip though. If life hands you lemons, just say f the lemons and bail. Uh what up flip side, Paul, Mrs. Drake, everybody hanging out in the chat. Uh we are here on a Wednesday afternoon of you. Uh and we the jail went from 6:00 to midnight. Uh okay. Yes. He shout out. We have a Josh Giddy contract negotiation report to talk about. So, let’s dive right into it. Katy, if you will. This came from Brett Seagull of Clutch Sports uh just yesterday. According to Clutch Sports NBA insider Seagull, Bulls and Giddy are coming close to an agreement. Josh Giddy and the Bulls are expected to reach a resolution on a new contract likely in the three-year range by the end of August. That’s this month. The Bulls could increase their offer, but they have stood firm on keeping a new deal in the $20 million average annual value range. The latest speculation from agents not involved in negotiation suggests something in the 65 million to $70 million range. Um, so Brett Eagle clutch sports uh clutch points rather with that report. Uh, so like at first I saw this, I was like, “Oh my god, are we finally getting close?” There are parts of this that have kind of already been reported. I feel like Casey mentioned on a recent thing of his fast break that like we could see a three-year deal. We were talking about the possibility of a three-year deal uh on one of our shows last week cuz it was, you know, whispers like that were going around. We’ve heard before the Bulls are more comfortable closer to 20 as opposed to Josh Giddy and his people who are trying to get 30. So like a lot of this kind of sounds similar. The part that’s different is they’re they’re close. Yeah. And it and it could happen this month and they actually give a date and like towards the end of this month, right, of August which like I’m like, “Oh, there’s still like three plus more weeks of August.” Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If this happens on August 30th, I’m going be pissed. See, let’s get it done. I guess it’s funny cuz it’s one thing with us sitting here saying that’s when we think it it’s going to happen. And it’s another thing, and shout out to the writers. Shout out Will the Gole when you see it in writing and someone has put it down and someone, you know what I mean, that has respect uh within the industry. Again, shout out will go. So, when you see those things and that that adds some validity to it and you can take from it what you want because it’s still, you know, a rumor, it’s, you know, speculation, it’s all those kind of things. But just seeing that though in print and it’s around the kind of number and figure that you and I were like, well, yeah, we’d be quite comfortable, you know what I’m saying, with this. And it’s a little less than what I was willing to even go as high as. Cuz my limit was 25. Actually, my limit started at 28. And then when everything came out, I was like, well, 25 is the max. Katie asked us point blank on one of our shows last week. All right. Like, you know, where would it be? And I said three years 70 years 75. Yeah. Yeah. And this is saying 65 to 70. Yeah. And I was like, I can be talked into another year and stuff like that. Like, but man, that’s a that’s kind of right where we kind of wanted it and thought to be a nice spot. I thought it was a nice spot. And then I talked to Will the Gole. Yeah, I I don’t know. I feel like one, it wouldn’t surprise me if a deal gets done this month just because it’s already dragged out so long and like once you’re in September, that’s like when training camp starts. That’s like when I mean technically it’s like media day is kind of the end end of the month, but like teams are going to be going they’re going to be going I believe to Miami again for like a players only type of training camp. They’re going to be in the building. Um, so it wouldn’t surprise me that that they there’s sort of like the phrase that deals get done on deadlines because like they have to. And so there’s that pressure there. And and I think the closer you get to that of the season starting, uh, both sides are going to want to get something done. I don’t know what you guys would think about like the shorter term contract. For me, I feel like there’s not a ton of upside in a three-year deal for a couple of different reasons. A ton of upside for whom? For the Bulls. Okay. Um, just checking. Yeah, because I mean, you look at the three-year deals that they’ve signed previously for Kobe and IO where they’ve really overperformed those deals and now are not going to be able to sign the extension that uh sign extensions off of them. And so, the Bulls are either going to be forced to trade them or have to let them become unrestricted free agents. And I just I would not want the Bulls to run into that situation again with Giddy where they get him to take a team friendly number, but then he overplays it and in three years they have he’s a free agent and they there’s no way that they can retain him. And so for me the upside on the deal is always going to be on the out years. meaning uh the longer the deal is, the more the salary cap rises, the smaller the number is as a percentage of the salary cap in the fourth and fifth or third, fourth and fifth potentially years of that deal. And so the shorter it is, I think the one, the higher percentage of the cap it’s going to be, which means it’s less valuable. Two, you have less team control. And I think if you are worried about like the downside of him being a pumpkin and just like not being a good player, like being stuck with him for three years versus five years, like I’d rather take the risk to try to get the upside on the out years um than take the risk of potentially losing him and not being able to retain him uh because you wanted to do something shorter. Now, I also think that there’s some downside to a 5-year deal, even if you do get him on a team friendly number. For example, what we’re seeing with Patrick, I was gonna say parenthesis Patrick Williams, which is um you know, he basically didn’t play well at all this year and so now they’re stuck with him and instead of being stuck with him for three years, they’re stuck with him for five. So to combat that, like they should be looking at team option instead of player option. Maybe you get a team option on the fourth and the fifth year. Um but like to me, I would rather pay up a little bit more to get in that security. And I’m not talking about like 28 or $30 million. I’m talking about like 22 and a half or $23 million because again they have all the leverage in the world. Nobody else is giving him an offer. Nobody else is coming in with restricted free agency or a sign and trade. Like they can get a longerterm deal and I understand that Giddy would want to get what he wants but like the fact of the matter is the Bulls have control here and so why not try to get him on an extremely team friendly deal at a very team friendly number and try to get the best of both worlds because they have the leverage to do so. Hm. That’s an in that’s very interesting and I think you just made some excellent points there. Um let me ask you this. I I think the Bulls and kind of how they’re operating is we’ve tried two five-year deals previously and we’ve been burned on both of those deals. Uh the Zack Lavine one, even though you uh said they they got back some good stuff for him, but they still had to wait a year before they could do anything with him. You know what I mean? So, they still kind of got burned on that a little bit. And of course, you mentioned Patrick Williams, of course, in that deal. And so going into this one where they feel like they have leverage again and they’re like, “Okay, why would we do the same thing we did twice before and it didn’t work out for us? We want to have at least some kind of leverage, you know, at that point.” But I guess my question to you is if it goes five, what is comfortable for you that the Bulls can have a nice those last two years don’t, you know, necessarily hurt them more? Because usually in those contracts I’ve seen signed, those last two is when guys really get that money in those last two seasons. So, what could the Bulls do to where they’re like, “Okay, these last two we’ll give you those five years, but maybe it’s a team option on it or maybe it’s a front-loaded contract or something like that.” What What is something? Yeah, I’d be looking at uh I think that’s a great point. Like either front-loaded deal where the money is coming in early, um a flat contract where it’s effectively a descending contract where as a percentage of the cap it goes down every year. That’s probably my most preferred um because that way you still hold the ability to extend him uh at a reasonable number. And then like they could do something like similar to what the Pelicans did with Zion Williamson, which is like give him incentives uh or guarantees. Like if they could get uh team option on the final two years, I would feel fine about giving him $25 million a year. I think that’s an unnecessary number just considering the context right now. But like if you could basically make make him a offer that was 75 million guaranteed for three years and then a fourth year team option at 25 and a fifth year team option at 25. You have so much control where if you do decide to trade him like a team can get off of that if they want to. Um or if you don’t like you still if he outplays it and he plays incredible then they still have the ability to pick up that team option uh and play and have him on a value contract or they can do him a solid then opt him out of that and extend renegotiate and extend off of that to get him on a more palatable contract for for him and what he’s worth. And so I think that just gives them control to like manage their own cap sheet in a way that they really haven’t been able to do except for the Lonzo ball contract which turned out to be a really team friendly deal and allowed them to get another rotation player that I think they feel really good about. So, um, to me, like those team options would be getting, especially if you get the third or I’m sorry, the fourth and a fifth year. That’s a pretty rare thing. Like, you don’t see that very often. But for me, that’s like worth paying a little bit a little bit more for giving him that guaranteed money uh on the first three years, but also then having that team control where you can either uh resign him, trade him, or just get off of him if you’re done. The other thing I’ll say about the three-year deal is like if he stinks and like is no good, um, you’re still stuck with him for three years. Whether it’s three or five, it doesn’t really matter. You’re still stuck with him. And I’d almost rather have him take the qualifying offer than be stuck with him on a bad contract for three years because then you can move on tomorrow and just take the sunk cost, but at least you’re like able to move on immediately. Whereas what we’re seeing with Patrick is they’re stuck with him now for four more years. The more of those guys that you have on your contract, the more of those guys that you have on your contract where you have like multiple high teens, mid20s contracts that you’re stuck with, like now you’re out of flexibility. And so I’d almost rather have this year figure out if he’s good or not, feel more comfortable paying him more because at least he played well throughout the course of the season or feel okay with just letting him walk altogether and really truly resetting things around Modis and Noah and whoever you get in next year’s draft. So for me, the flexibility doesn’t come with the three-year contract. The the figuring out if he’s good or not part is also kind of tricky if you’re like, can we figure that out in one year? because they got one year look at him, but the first half of that Zack Lavine was here putting up buckets and then Josh became more involved after the Zack trade. Yeah. And then even still, if Giddy puts up numbers in his box score next season, uh something between his full season numbers from last year and his post all-star break went bananas numbers, that’ll look like a good player. How many Bulls do how many wins do the Bulls have and how big of a reason for those wins is Josh Giddy? That’s a good question. Then the other thing that you were talking about go with Kobe outperforming his contract, IO outperforming his contract, and now having to pay these guys way more to keep them around for this team that’s kind of middling. And then the same thing may be happening with Giddy on a three-year deal. It’s like you’re you’re going down a rabbit hole of of some mediocre stuff. But hold on there. That’s the front half of a point. There’s another back half of that point involving somebody in the comments that I want to get to right after this quick break. Hit the like button for Katie while you listen to some ads. Surprise. Panda watch. 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Shout out to Pat Norton for that incredible rendition. Patty pipes. Patty pipes. That’s what I’m calling him. I thought we were just going to pretend like nothing happened. That that was me or something. We agreed to just not mention that that happened, but that’s okay. Well, people talked about it in chat. So, um, hit the like button if you didn’t do it during the ad break. So, we’re talking about Josh Giddy and the concept of him maybe taking a three-year deal. Yeah. Uh, which would offer him the opportunity to get back into free agency sooner and maybe get paid big time if he does outperform a more modest average annual value figure on this upcoming deal. Um Rob, shout out to one of our regulars in the chat said, “Or when he was referencing what goat was talking about with Kobe and Io in these middling contracts that they’ve outperformed, Kobe and Io could take team discounts like Jaylen Brunson and Male Bridges did and maybe Josh Giddy like on top of that like oh well he does this shorter term deal, he outperforms it and maybe take a team discount.” Look, there’s a lot of different factors here, and I’m I’m not just trying to pick on you, Rob, but like it’s it’s a fair point to bring up. That is for a team that is trying to win a championship right now. The Bulls are not slap. Uh, also before taking the team discounts, um, Muel Bridges signed a rookie extension that banked him four years, 91 mil guaranteed, paid. Then his team discount, 150 million guaranteed. So, you know, dude got paid. Yeah. Jaylen Brunson before his team discount deal, he signed a four-year $104 million deal. Not bad. Paid the discount deal. Another 156 12 mil paid. Okay. Kobe and I have not gotten anything resembling any of those four contracts between those two two players I just rattled off. So, the whole team discount thing, hometown discount, no. Yeah. Kobe deserves to get paid. He should get paid. He’s going to get paid. Same thing with Iodumu. They haven’t gotten any big paydays yet. The guys you mentioned who took hometown discounts or team discounts did so for a team that was trying to win a championship is trying to win a championship and they had already banked big before those contracts. Big difference. Those are all facts. Um and I mean when Brunson first went to New York, you know, getting getting that contract was was key. Um yeah, man. They they have touched the money, they have seen the money, they’ve got the cash. So once you have it, it’s easy to take those discounts then. You’re right. IO and Kobe are not in those positions to where they’re just like, nah, it’s cool. You can keep an extra $10 million. Absolutely not. God, no. Do not do this. Uh, go get your money and get your paper. Um, I think also they are the Josh Green I mean Josh Green, the Josh Giddy comparison you brought up as far as a three-year deal. will I I thought was brilliant um when you were saying man if those guys outplay if he outplays that contract then you know he’ll be up for a big deal you know kind of kind of how Kovi and uh IO have outplayed that contract I think for me the difference is the contract that they’re signing Giddy with is they are signing him to be the guy and they want him to be the man and when you signed IO he he wasn’t signed to be the guy and when you signed Kobe he honestly wasn’t signed to be the guy he was signed to be a piece and it grew, you know, kind of within that. If Josh Giddy grows into what they think that he’s going to be, I don’t think the Bulls are going to have a issue trying to give him whatever he wants, you know, as far as the check is concerned. So, it’s it’s definitely a a line that they’re walking for sure. Like, man, he might be great, man, he might not be, but it’s a risk that I think it’s okay to take right now because if if it’s up and down like that, I don’t think you should throw everything on one side uh to do that. And because again, you got burned like really hard um with with this uh Patrick Williams deal. Not saying Patrick can’t still do something. He can still come back and be a solid player or something like that. But the only contract they’re given to somebody like that to be the guy was Zack Lavine. And it didn’t work out for them in any in any kind of way. Um except for what they got back. But Josh Giddy is a whole different monster. You traded your best asset to get him and you still don’t know if he’s that dude. So, you’re still kind of figuring it out, you know, like they don’t want to get burned again and say, “Okay, we’re going to go all in on it.” Oh, man. Damn. Like, we’re screwed. No, you give them the three. You say, “Okay, well, if you outplay that to the point that we that the rest of the league wants you, that’s kind of the position you kind of want to be in to be for real cuz that you’ve got a guy if that’s concern if that’s the concern. And I don’t think the Bulls will have a problem knowing their past giving a guy that kind of money.” Yeah, I think that’s true. Um I guess you know it’s not exactly the same as the Kobe and IO situation either because like 23 $25 million a year for Giddy like you’re going to be able to extend him at 35 million basically is 140% of 25 million. Um so that’s like a much more palatable deal to start your contract at. So it’s like it’s not impossible that they could come to an extension agreement in 3 years if he signs at a smaller number. Um, there’s also I don’t know the exact rules, so I can check in about this, but I I think there’s like um an implied no trade clause for guys that play on their qualifying offer. Um, and so even though he would be like tradable and a team who traded for him as a you know on the 11 million qual qualifying offer would have his bird rights, they could pay him whatever they wanted. Um, like there’s just to me there there’s like not enough upside in the short-term deal for me cuz like the upside is you’re able to get off of it sooner, right? And like to me that’s not really upside. That’s like you have to make decisions sooner. That’s like you have to and for me like I think maybe Matt this is like the difference about how you and I view Giddy is like I obviously have a lot of questions about who he is as a player and what he can do. Um but I think I’m more open to him reaching his potential of what he can be like the number one guy on a team than you are. And so for me, like if I am open to that and I feel like there is some small chance that that could happen, like I would want to get him on a really team friendly deal while I have the chance, whereas I think you are more steadfast in your belief that like he’s just not that guy, so why pay him at all? And so that again I think that speaks to the idea of the qualifying offer where you just let him play it out this year and then you know like to me you would have the opportunity to pay him next year and you would have an additional 82 games to evaluate him. To me I think he’s just the kind of player that is going to have moments where he looks really good and moments where he really doesn’t. And at the end of the day, he might have the same averages or slightly better, but you’re not going to know much more about him in terms of his consistency, his ability to lead you on deep playoff runs because they’re not going to get there this year. So, like, I just don’t think that there’s much of a chance that you end up with like this incredible level of confidence in who he is long term as a player off of this one year. And so, for me, I just want to get him on the most tradable deal possible. And to me, a tradable deal is a long-term deal with him locked in at a low number. Yeah. So yeah, I I think you’re right on trying to figure out how we feel about it. And uh Paul in the chat said it seems like go is expecting Giddy to outperform whatever this, you know, impending contract is. And not necessarily that you’re expecting him to do so to play at a higher value than the dollar figure he’s earning on whatever this contract is that is reportedly coming soon. But that the upside of him on a longerterm deal if he out of the gate looks to be overperforming whatever that figure is is a player who’s good under team control for longer years on a smaller figure, a smaller percentage of the cap as you move forward yearbyear, which whether you want to keep him and have a very good piece that is affordable to play for you and win you games or at some point down the road decide that you want to move that piece for something else is a very contract attached to said player. I understand that logic entirely. Yeah. And I think like the difference between 18 and 25 million, Patrick’s number, and what potentially Giddy could get up to at this point, like I know it’s a lot of money and that that it is a big number, but 25 million is 16% of the salary cap for the upcoming year. Um, and that’s only going to go down. And like for me, that’s that’s six man money. That’s like seventh man money. So, like again, I’m not saying I think Giddy is guaranteed to be a star. I think he has some of those qualities and if he can improve, then I think that there is a path towards that. Um, but even if he turns into one of the better six men in the league, which I think is like a very realistic low-end outcome, he’s still on a value deal. And so, he’s still somebody that you could get value for in a trade, especially as the cap continues to rise and especially the longer you have him locked in. The one caveat I would say is that I think teams right now are just very hesitant to take on any long-term money. But I do think that there is a possibility or a chance that the really good value deals are the exception to that rule where if you are making a lot of money on uh or I’m sorry, a small amount of money on a long-term deal like teams would be more interested in that. would would forgo that flexibility because they’re confident that you’re going to exceed that value for the long term. And so for me, like it’s all about how can I get the most value out of this contract. And I think the more team friendly and the lower the number and the longer it is, like the more upside that you have on it. Can can we ask Matt this question I saw from uh Christian here? I thought it was a good question. Why does Matt think giddy le Bulls will only be good enough to get to the playin for the next four years? I’m curious why Matt is so convinced Giddy won’t be better. It’s a good question. It’s a good question. Um the get, you know, why can’t they get past the playin over the next four years is only partly in my opinion about being led by Giddy if they do continue to build around Giddy. The rest of that is, you know, the Bulls being the Bulls. That’s not on Josh Giddy. I’m not gonna ever blame Josh Giddy for the Bulls being a team that is mid and happy about being mid. That’s not Josh Giddy’s fault. That’s Josh Giddy’s very boss’s fault in my opinion. So there is that factor. I am sitting here as a surirly skeptical Bulls fan. More surly and skeptical than I’ve ever been. Ready to watch the Bulls play in the playing tournament every year for the next four years. We’re going for an eight Pete. It’s going to happen y’all. Just get on board until something drastic changes. As far as Giddy, I like it’s been well documented, not just by me, but by anybody else who was a skeptic about how good he can be as a central piece because of certain elements of his game. We talked about it when we were talking about the the Hoops hype point guard rankings yesterday. Mhm. Can he actually prove that he is a legitimate threat behind the ark, not just for a third of a season? Mhm. Can you shoot 38%, you know, on not just wide open threes like Go was talking about yesterday, but pull-up threes, off the dribble threes. Can you create shots for yourself around the arc? Maybe, you know, do away with some of those midi floaters that look terrible and, you know, results are bad. I like And then the defense, he got he got played off the floor in the fourth quarter a lot for the first half of last season. It’s the same reason he lost his job in OKC as the younger players on that team got better than him. The Thunder team that had great three-point shooting and great defense to mask Giddy’s flaws and they still decided we’re ready to move on from this guy. Mhm. If Giddy can’t thrive with that Thunder team with those teammates, how can he be the best player on a Bulls team that goes anywhere beyond the playin tournament? That is my skeptical thesis. Hope that answers your question. And and I think that that is like a totally fair outlook on it. Like we do have evidence that he has struggled in high leverage moments. We do have evidence that like the the argument that like well the team around him got better in OKC and so he wasn’t able to thrive. It’s like that’s not an argument for Giddy. That’s like an argument against him. He wasn’t able to be good enough to compete uh in that level. So, I I get that part, but I also think that like I he can get better. Yeah, I’m I’m open to him continuing to improve. Like he he did and it’s not just like the numbers like I don’t care about what was it 46% from three. Like that’s obviously not sustainable. Um, but like the free throw drawing, the, you know, the defensive rebounding ability to push the ball up the court, the fact that they won games, like I I know there are questions with all those things, but, um, I feel like he’s showed me enough to where I’d be willing to give him a chance to continue to get better. And I I’m open to that possibility. I’m not saying I think it’s likely, and I’m not saying I think it’s like impossible, but I’m open to that possibility because there are key things that if he improves, I do think he could be really good. I think the off the dribble three stuff, as I’ve talked about many times, is absolutely critical. Like that’s a huge part of why Hallebertton is a star. He needs the ability to pull up off the dribble because that changes how teams guard him. And that even maximizes if Giddy were able to do that, even maximizes his driving and his foul drawing and all that stuff. Like we know the passing is there. Like it’s okay if your best player who you’re running everything through is not a great defensive player. The problem is he’s not a great offensive player yet and there’s things that he needs to improve on to get to that point. But I’m willing to give him time to do that. Um, partially because I think we have no other choice because he’s going to be around, but also partially because I think he earned it. I think he played incredibly well down the stretch. Um, and showed me enough of what I feel like could be legitimate improvements that I’m willing to give him that chance. So, I understand that not everybody feels that way. Um, but I also understand that he is a flawed player and that, you know, there’s no guarantees that he is going to get better just because he’s younger. Good. We have to take a break, but I just wanted to get a thought in and I appreciate that. I’m sorry I already forgot your name. I think it was Christian. Christian um asked this question in a very kind and respectful way. Thank you for that. Um, rare around here. Very. No, very. That’s why I wanted to say that I really appreciate it because it’s very rare. Stupid. Very much appreciate that. Um, but for me it’s because it will always have to be the Giddyled Bulls. When Giddy is on your team, it can never be another person-ledd team. Like we’ve seen that he at this point in his career cannot be a second option. He just doesn’t have the skill set for it. You know, that’s just where we are. Um, so it’s like he is your ceiling. His talent ceiling is your team’s ceiling. And based on the conversation that we had yesterday off of a list that we did not put together, um, Giddy is the 15th best point guard in the NBA. So your best player is not the 15th best player in the NBA, but the 15th best player at their position in the NBA. So your team ceiling is the 15th best point guard in the NBA. You know what 15 is smack dab in the middle of, Katie? 30. Yeah. You know how many NBA teams there are? 30. 30 mid. This has been math with Katie and Matt. Midmath with Katie and Matt. We need our own spin-off show. All right, let’s knock out some ads right there. We’ll come back and speaking about how good your team can be if Josh Giddy is leading it. Rick Kau said some interesting stuff on a podcast the other day. Does it correlate with what the Bulls are doing? What AK has said? We’ll talk about that after you hit the like button. Hey Julia, today’s show brought to you by Circa Sportsbook. 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And Monarch Money acts like your personal CFO, giving you full visibility and control over yourself and stop earning and start growing. It’s more than your average budgeting app. Monarch Money is a complete financial command center for all your accounts, investments, and your goals. Don’t just manage your money. Start building wealth and you’ll get 50% off your first year just to do that. You can track your spending, your savings, and your investments effortlessly. So you can focus on what matters most, making your biggest life goals a reality. Get control over your finances, ladies and gentlemen. And do that with Monarch Money. Use the code cho@ monarchmoney.com. That’s monarchmoney.com. Put that in your browser for half off your first year. That’s 50% off your first year at monarchman.com with that code cho. We roll along cho Bulls hanging out in studio on Wednesday. Back big Dave go and Katie bringing them figures. Uh we are talking Giddy watch. We will see if the the Bulls and Giddy are close report is true and if so, how close? We have an emergency pod sometime coming up in the next week or so. Dave, how would you feel if the Giddy contract breaks while you uh in the near future are off taking some time off? Oh, I’m I’m fine with it. I mean, if I’m available, you won’t have FOMO if we’re doing an emergency podcast about Kitty’s contract getting finalized. No. If it happens and I’m able to jump on, I’ll jump on for a segment, say my piece, and get this, baby. Can I just Can I say one more thing about Giddy? Please do. You can. Um, I think that there’s been this idea, and I’ve fallen victim to this in the past before, too. Oh, no. Of like when you have Giddy, everything has to go through Giddy. He needs to be like just the one that touches the ball every single possession. And I think there’s a lot of truth to that considering the fact that he struggles as an offball player. Um, and that he dominates possessions. Like he gets the rebound and he pushes the ball and he runs the break. Um, and he runs a lot of pick and roll. But I I also think that like even in situations where you have like prime Russell Westbrook, prime James Harden, Luca Donuch, LeBron James, like you’re maxing out at like 35% usage. Um like last year Josh Giddy post all-star break um I’m just pulling up the numbers here but like he he dominated possessions for sure uh but post all-star break his usage was 24.9. So and the Bulls were succeeding in that and Kobe had 26.5 usage during that time as well. So I think that there are ways to build a team that does well with Josh Giddy as the primary piece. It just requires you to have like incredible fit next to him at all five positions. Guys that can really shoot, can also score but play off ball, can defend at a high level, can switch, are long, are athletic, can get out and run and maximize him on the offensive end, um, and can cover up for him on the defensive end. It requires you to have a center that can space the floor and protect the rim. Like, it’s really tough because it just requires you to have such a specific build. But the Bulls do have some flexibility. I don’t know that they’ll get it perfectly right, but they do have some flexibility to do that. And I just think that the idea that just because Giddy has high usage does not necessarily mean that he has 100% usage. So that’s just something to keep in mind with like because I I think Katie’s right that like a Josh Giddy led team is going to have a certain ceiling based on who he is right now. But I think that if you maximize, and this kind of leads into our next discussion of what Rick Carile said, um, if you build the right way, if you have the right pieces around him that can make him better and make up for his weaknesses, then you can have some success in in an NBA where there is so much parody, maybe that can give you an opportunity to have, you know, some sort of a run in the playoffs. But again to to the point like I think again that’s why I’m so excited about the season to start because you mentioned his numbers on the usage and Kobe’s but how much did Modis you know what I’m saying not having a huge usage number play into that you I’m saying his will increase I plan on his increasing into in this season and if it’s not we got other issues and we going to yell about it on this show. So that makes me that’s something I want to see and find out because if it can work where Modis has a higher usage percentage as well, then okay, then it it could be fine. But just from what we’ve seen, you know what I’m saying, and what it’s been when Josh Giddy has got the ball and he’s doing his thing, that’s kind of when he’s at his best. And it’s hard to tell somebody not to do something when they’re at their best, you know? Yeah. usage is not a perfect stat because it doesn’t like account for um it’s basically just like did the ball did the possession end with you whether it was a turnover or a mid basket. So like setting up guys via assist doesn’t necessarily count towards usage. So if you factor that in Giddy’s usage is probably much higher. Modus had a 19.6 six usage after Allstar break, which is slightly um below average if you consider like 20 five players, 100% usage broken up into five 20% would be average, but like Patrick Williams has never had a usage over 15, I don’t think. Um so like some guys are lower usage players and some guys are higher usage players. I absolutely expect and want to see Modis uh create more for himself and have a higher usage. Um, but I think he could do that even with Giddy and Kobe out there because you have guys like IO, like Trey Jones. Uh, you know, I think you you got to find the right centerpiece in there long term. Yeah. But have more 3 and D wings that can complement those guys that can get shots up, but that don’t command usage. I think that’s really the key in uh in team building. And yeah, Aoro is a great example, but like to me, he just needs to become an elite three-point shooter to pair with his very good defense. like he needs to become a threatening shooter to change the way defenses guard him. You can’t have Giddy and like a non-shooting big. If you we talked about like Nick Claxton on a on a um mini pod, like you can’t have a non-shooting big, a non-shooting ball handler, and non-shooting wings out there, you will get lapped. Like you just you can’t do that. So, uh that’s on all these guys to improve both on the ball and off the ball. Yeah, true. We shall see. We shall see. All right, pivoting to our next topic for today. Um, this was making the rounds among uh NBA uh Twitter heads over the last day or so. Uh, a shout out first and foremost to Caitlin Cooper. If you guys aren’t following her on Twitter, you should be. Read her blog. Basketball she wrote. C2 Cooper is where you can follow and find her Twitter handle. Um, great Pacers writer uh with a blog and has recently been making rounds on various NBA podcasts. big-time podcast and has now started to do her own podcasting. Great listen, great read. Check her out. She was interviewing Pacers head coach Rick Carlilele the other day and there was a clip of it that went around Twitter of Carile talking about what the Pacers are doing, what they’re working with, and the way the league seems to be trending. And uh listen closely cuz it kind of sounds something like AK got roasted for not that long ago. Rick Carile said this while talking to Caitlin Cooper. Quote, “The NBA game has now become a playh hard league. It’s not just being topheavy with stars. Roster construction is changing. It’s become more important to have more good players than be topheavy with two or three great players that get all the touches.” End quote. I mean, a lot of people on NBA Twitter over the last day or so have been saying, “Boy, that sounds an awful lot like what Arturus Carnosova said at the trade deadline. uh which he got roasted for parenthesis I think rightfully so cuz I still think it’s nonsense but like I see what Carlile is saying and I think he has a point to a point. Yes, Matt. And there is a very specific thing that he and the Pacers are doing. They have very good players. Boom. They are deep. Doom. The reason they made this crazy deep playoff run all the way to the NBA finals, all the way to game seven of the NBA Finals that many that not many people saw coming is because they got good deep talent. They also have two pretty big time star players. Thank you. Tyrese Hallebertton and Pascalago. That’s the point. This this this Bulls Well, hey, this sounds like what the Bulls are. Like what’s the difference between the Pacers and the Bulls? And I think Carile is saying something smart here. Yes. To a point. Does it mean does it equate to what the Bulls are doing and what AK said when he said nine to 10 good players is what we’re looking for as opposed to like two or three stars, mega stars on mega contracts, topheavy. Do they equate in my opinion? No. You know what the Bulls don’t have? Tell me. Hallebertton or Seakkum? Yakam. You know what the Bulls don’t have? Let me know. One of the best players in the league. You kind of need that too to make a run as deep as the Pacers did. You kind of need that too to legitimately contend for an NBA championship. Can we just do a quick exercise? Just a quick exercise, y’all. You don’t even like exercise. Let’s just go back 10 years. Fact, but I did my PT earlier today. Shout out. Let’s just go back 10 years. Mhm. The 2015 NBA Finals featuring the Warriors and Cavs. Steph Curry first in MVP voting. LeBron James third. Next season, same teams in the finals. Steph Curry first in MVP. LeBron James third. How about uh 2017? Let’s see. Oh, uh LeBron James Cavs back there in them finals. Fourth in MVP voting. Steph Curry sixth. Kevin Durant joining the Warriors. Ninth in MVP voting. Let’s see what happened in 1718. All right, some more of them Warriors and Cav stuff. LeBron James second in MVP voting. Kevin Durant seventh. Steph Curry 10th. Need I go on? How about Kawaii? He finished ninth in MVP voting when the Raptors won the title. Who did they beat? The Warriors, Steph Curry, fifth. Every year, year by year, you go. Who are the two teams left standing? Who was the team who won the chip? Who was the runner up? People with MVP caliber talent leading their deep team filled with good players and depth. In no way does that equate to what AK and the Bulls have right now, y’all. or are trying to get close to. Who is it? Raise your hand if you’re the Bulls MVP candidate. Are you here? Hello, Buler. So, yes, what Rick Carile said makes sense. And it makes sense for his ro his Pacers roster. Mhm. That also again features two star players. In no way is this the Bolts. In zero way. Yes, you need depth. You also need an MVP caliber player leading your team through the postseason and the regular season. Anyone over the last 48 hours who has said, “H this sounds like the Bulls. Do we owe AK an apology?” No, cuz they don’t have an MVP caliber player. God, what do you guys think? Yeah, I like how he just destroys her. He’s like, “All right, guys. Mid-season, go ahead. um everything you said. Yes, I I agree with my my main point when I first saw this was exactly what you said like yeah nine or 10 good players but they have two true stars like on their team. Seakum was already a champion before he even got there and was a intricral part on why they were a champion and he’s clearly the second best player on their team who can who in many times during that playoff run was the first best player on that team. He’s also an all-star. He’s also all NBA like he’s awesome man. He’s a he’s he’s the guy. And then I mean Tyrese Hallebertton the biggest question was is Tyresese Hallebertton a superstar. Not good, not cool, not star, but superstar. So that’s the question, you know. So yes, you have you have to have a good team around around you. I think Carile and AK are correct. Like I like how Carile said it’s now a tryhard league. Like this is what it is. It’s like guys are putting in forth their best effort, which you can have guys like TJ McConnell out there doing it, which you can have guys like my main man Ty Jerome, which is kind of why I want to see Yuki out there. Like the tryh hard stuff, which is why Alex Caruso shines, you know what I mean? He’s going to shine anyway, but it’s why he shines more in this kind of era because that’s what you see. Look at OKC. That was a lot of tryhard guys on OKC led by the MVP of of the league, you know what I mean? led by Jaylen uh uh Williams who guys right now are like, “Is this dude the best small forward in the NBA?” Like, this is the questions that we’re asking now. So, you’re going to need those guys. The Bulls don’t have those guys yet. They’re not here on the team. So building from that 9 to 10, it’s go it’s it’s something that you can do, but it’s something that’s much easier to do when you have that guy and then you build around that put around that nine or 10 players around that uh superstar or star that you truly truly have like Jokic. Like Denver didn’t really have in my opinion nine or 10 good players, but I had Jokic. So you put around what you want to put around and we can roll. But now they got, hey, let’s get Cam Johnson who truly fits Joker. And we’re like, oh man, this could be really, really, really serious. That’s the nine or 10 guys that you’re adding around him, man. I mean, there’s no year you can go to where you can tell me that there wasn’t a star on that team that carried them to a NBA finals or who was the guy of that NBA finals. Hallebertton is the immediate most legitimate example of that if you tried to make that argument. Yeah. which is why people said, “Holy hell, the Pacers are in the finals.” What? Yeah. And everybody was surprised except this handsome man right here. But it I’ve had people bring up some old school stuff for you. Like they brought up the Bullets versus the Sonics in 1979 when the Sonics won uh the NBA title. And I’m like, dude, they had Dennis Johnson, they had Hall of Famer who was an all-star that season. And they also, oh, and on the other side, they had Wes Unselled, who is all, who was always like in the top 10 MVP voting because he was out there doing his thing. They won the title the previous season. So, that’s what they do. You know, you’re going to have to have the guy on your squad if you’re going to push and move forward. It’s great to have the nine or 10, but that’s only going to take you so far. If we’re talking about elevating and going farther in the playoffs, you’ve got to have that guy. The Knicks are an example of that. Um, you’ve got to have that. Bottom line, I don’t mean to take your time with you. Gotta have that guy. You’re right. And we’re even seeing it in the comments like, “Is Halurn really that guy?” Like, I don’t know if it’s a chicken or egg situation, but like to me, one, the the accolades and the success speaks for itself. I mean, this is he’s been an all-star twice. He’s been an AllNBA player twice. Um, that’s pretty self-explanatory. He’s been on that level the last three years. But two, I think part of it is he’s done it. He’s gotten you to the finals and that makes you that kind of player. So it’s not just like only those kind of players get there, but it’s once you get there, that’s what kind of player you are. And so I think that is definitely a piece of it with Hallebertton. Um, but I agree that like while he’s probably a top 15 player in the league, he’s not like a, you know, Carmelo Anthony type of I can beat you one-on-one type of player, which is I think how a lot of people still think about um those player rankings. So, the team is built around him. He is an allNBA caliber player and he brings out the most in his team. And I agree with you, Matt. Like, I think that’s true to a point. I do feel like AK, coming from myself included, like kind of made fun of that comment because it just deserved to be deserved. It felt that way at first, but but I also think that like he was on to something. He was probably ahead of the curve in that we saw what happened in these playoffs. We saw how effort and intensity and working hard and trying hard for 48 minutes um that can take you really far. And we saw that with both the Thunder and with the Pacers. We saw how depth matters. But I agree with you, Matt, that like at the end of the day, you need those things, but you also need a star player. You need a top five, 10, at worst 15 player in the league. And you need probably multiple all-stars on your team in addition to guys that play hard for 48 minutes in addition to good depth that a coach can play with in terms of rotations and lineups um and combinations. And so to me, like the Bulls do have a very deep roster right now. They’ve got uh you know, a bunch of guys that I think we’re going to get we’re going to see get minutes and then a bunch of guys that we think should be getting minutes that are going to be out of the rotation next year, probably some of the younger players um unfortunately. But like to me, the Bulls have the depth part and it really just does come down to the star part. So even if they or AK was right about that, like it makes sense once you have the guy and he slots everybody else into their right spot and the way that they’re approaching things, not going after high picks in the draft, not really making big aggressive trades for allars, it’s hard to bring in that kind of all-star caliber player if you’re not really taking any of the avenues available to you to get that kind of player. And so that’s the one thing. And then the other piece that I’ve mentioned about this before is we’ve seen it now. We know that teams can succeed when they play hard for 48 minutes, when they have incredible intensity, when they defend, when they shoot a lot of threes, when they get up and down, and when they have good depth. But now everybody’s seen that. Everybody’s on to it. Everybody’s going to start to incorporate and implement that into their offense and into their defense of how they play on both sides of the ball. And like if the Bulls competitive advantage was playing harder and playing faster and now every other team is playing harder and faster, are they still going to have that advantage? And that’s one of the things that I’m most curious about heading into this next season is like is that is the rest of the league going to pass the Bulls by in that situation? Um and we don’t know and I think at that point it does come back to having the best talent available, right? Um that’s that’s how it is with like small ball for example was like getting the most talent on the floor was the key. It wasn’t necessarily about playing smaller. It was about can you get five guys that can dribble, pass, shoot out there. And now that there are bigs that can dribble, pass, and shoot, we’re seeing a resurgence in bigs and even two bigs playing together. And so ultimately, what it comes down to is having the best talent on the court. And I think the Bulls are still a ways away from that. I saw someone say, uh, that 79 Finals was on tape delay because, you know, the NBA was trash at that point. Didn’t have any stars. Mhm. I I I hear that point, but they were always on tape delay. They were on tape delay until 1981. Matter of fact, what the league did game six of the NBA finals when Magic as a rookie dropped 4215 and seven was on tape delay. So that was just what they did at that point in time. Ma K uh kudos to Magic and kudos to Larry Bird for changing, you know, all of those things. But it wasn’t because those teams were just I mean that just was a thing, you know, at the NBA at that point in time. They weren’t they didn’t have that level of popularity even when they started getting those guys. Stuff had to change. Yeah. Back in the days when the uh Bulls were being outdrawn by the indoor soccer team, the Chicago Sting Chicago Stadium. Stucky can tell you about that one. Yeah. Um 2020 kind of weird bubble, you know, is where they finished that season. Lakers champions heat runner up. Almost an improbable run the Heat made. Nobody saw that coming. Jimmy Butler still finished 11th MVP of voting that year. He did back when he actually played a lot. LeBron James was second in MVP voting that year. He was 21 Bucks champions. Giannis was fourth in MVP voting that year. Runner up Suns Paul fifth in MVP voting that year. 22 shout out to the uh champion Warriors once again. Steph Curry finished eighth in MVP voting that year. And uh let’s see, who did they beat in 22? 22. Celtics. Uh yeah. How about Jason Tatum? Sixth in MVP voting that year. 23 Nuggets champs. Yan uh Joker finished second behind Embiid for MVP that year. Mhm. They beat the Heat. Jimmy Butler right there at 10th in MVP voting. The Celtics champions in 24. Jason Tatum sixth in MVP voting. Runner up Dallas Mavericks. Luca Donuch in MVP voting. And there it is y’all. the past 10 years of NBA MVP slash two finalists in the NBA finals. Yeah, I mean I Yeah, I mean I agree with Rick Carile saying, you know, it’s not a topheavy league like that anymore. I mean, he’s correct. You know, just looking at what we saw is true, but still you need those guys that will never change. The argument has more to do with the current NBA uh the collective bargaining agreement, the new CBA rules, the apron rules, all the restrictions that come with that and the huge figures on max contracts right now against the cap and percentages of the cap. We like the 2024 Suns, we see what happens. That’s an example of putting all your eggs in a couple of players basket not working out and depth being important just as much or maybe more so if is what Carile is trying to say. It’s all true. Where’s your car going if you don’t have a freaking driver? I think people are just using this quote however they want to use it. Like I think they’re twisting it into whatever way they want to further their argument. And I think what he’s actually trying to say here is that the era of like a big three is over. Like I think that’s all he’s saying. I don’t think he’s saying you can win without zero with with zero allstars. Like that’s not at all what he’s saying. He’s just saying you don’t need three number one options anymore. But you still need one. You still need an allar. Ideally two. Two. Still ideally two. Three. Awesome. Phenomenal. But he’s not saying you can win with a bunch of role players that don’t make allstar teams. Like that is not what he’s saying, right? And I think a lot of people are twisting it to mean that in order to just Yeah. Yeah, this is not where is that is what AK said and that’s why he got roasted for it. Correct. Well, I think I think that part’s actually up for debate. I think we’re assuming that because they don’t have any all-star players on their team right now, let alone all NBA players. But he said like we we need depth. We don’t need three max players, right? which again like making that argument is something that is not going to get roasted cuz his team he just led his team to the finals and like dude did they have somebody that finished top 10 in MVP voting this season? No. But they still had two quality star players and he’s a coach that’s getting results. A coach and or front office executive who’s not getting results with their current strategy and plan who doesn’t have the star on the roster to be like well yeah like that’s a given. Of course, you need a star, but also having nine to 10 good players is important, too, if you want to get into the semantics of the exact words and how AK phrased it. Yeah. But like the reason he got roasted is because he said that as if like uh you might be forgetting something, sir. Who’s your franchise player, man? That’s the difference. But I think I think Katie, you’re right. Like what Carile said and what AK said can be twisted in different ways to mean different things. But yeah, you need depth. Perhaps the era of the big three is over in the NBA largely because of contracts. Correct. That’s fine. But I will not stand for Bulls fans trying to make the argument that what Carile said directly correlates to what the Bulls have what the Bulls are trying to do. And that actually like yeah well Carile said this and he just led his team to the finals. So Bulls are great. Bulls are Bulls are on course. No, I think it just means No, thank you with that take. I think it just means they need to turn into an allar and they need to bring in another all-star. That’s if if you’re going to say correct that that’s the pathway and that that’s what you want. Like those are the things that need to happen. Yeah. To me and that’s a huge ask. Huge colossal. Yes. I just kind of broke down how I think like there’s probably something in there for Giddy, but like it’s still like right now, have we talked about like the latest top 100 players or whatever in the NBA? Like where was he ranked last time we did that? I don’t remember, but it was probably like in the 70s, 80s, 90s area. Like he needs to be in the top 15. That’s a huge jump to make. Um and so even if there is potential for him to do that, it’s a hard thing to do. It’s there’s no guarantees of it. And that’s, you know, to get one of those all-star players, not two. So, um, I still I still think and I think as the NBA evolves, like talent is always it’s always going to come down to who has the best talent and that effort, trying hard, playing hard, playing the right way stylistically, all those things are have to be a given in order to even start having that discussion. in the same way that having the best talent is. Yeah, well said. I think that makes sense. Uh, real quick, we’ll pause the conversation there, but before we get out of here, Katie, curious to know the the results of today’s poll. It was a good one. It was a good one. Best lunchable. First of all, hit the like button. Uh, but yes, the poll today was what’s the best lunchable. I personally for lunch had uh turkey and cheese. So, there you go. Turkey and cheese, ham and cheese, nachos, and pizza were the options. We have a tie. Oo, we have a tie between ham and cheese and pizza. Um, I would like to say that those are the two worst options, so I’m very frustrated. Uh, third place was nachos and fourth place was turkey and cheese. Personally, I think nachos are the best. I voted nachos. Same same, Katie. Look, is it a healthy lunch in the middle of your school day? Absolutely not. But them Lunchable nachos were delicious. And have you eaten the ham in a Lunchables ham and cheese? Not in a very long time. The pizza which where the crust is just like cardboard like it’s all Lunchables ham not food. Lunchables pizza crust. Yeah. That’s just some something between like a soft not cooked something and a stale crack. It’s bad. They’re bad. Lunchables pizza is bad. Cook something. Especially for a self-respecting Chicago. Like you can’t eat that. Get a pizza. Shout out to Patrick for never having a Lunchable. Never once. That’s what he says. Wow. Had a lunchable, dude. Try the nachos. All right, we’ll get out of here for today. We’ll be back tomorrow with another live episode for y’all. Same time, same place, 4 p.m. Central. In the meantime, follow the go will_gotly. Read his stuff. All CSO.com. Become a diehard so that you can read his stuff. Mhm. The quaff will go big bow bports. I’m bull_pack. We are cu bulls. We are the controls. The one and only Katie Duffy. Duffy. Have a great night. Is he red? Good. Peace. Rick Carile.
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On this episode, the CHGO Bulls crew get into Brett Seigel’s report from Clutch Points where he states the Chicago Bulls and Josh Giddey are “are expected to reach a resolution on a new contract” near the end of August. Are the years and money reported a fair deal for both sides? Will it come with a player or team option? Also, Indiana Pacers Coach Rick Carlisle was on Caitlin Cooper’s Podcast and stated that the NBA brand of basketball is not top heavy super teams anymore; it’s more try hard team-focused with multiple good players on the roster. How close are the Bulls to this model? Was Arturas Karnisovas ahead of the curve with his infamous “9 to 10” good players quote? Also, a recent survey of NBA fans across the league was conducted by the Action Network and it had some surprising results on what Bulls fans think about the state of the team, price of tickets and their satisfaction with the Bulls. Matt Peck, Big Dave Watson, and Will Gottlieb discuss that and more.
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