Sharks vs Blackhawks Rebuild! Featuring Special Guest Max Miller

Sharks vs Blackhawks Rebuild! Featuring Special Guest Max Miller

What’s up everybody? I am here with Max Miller from Sharks Digest and we met at the NHL draft and what else do you do? You can just tell everybody all of the things you do. Yeah, what’s up? Thanks for having me. So, Max Mill here from Sharks Hockey Digest in NHL.com. It was a pleasure meeting you at the draft. We hung out up in the stands together. We didn’t have seats. We’re not big enough yet apparently. Uh but we got a great view of the stage. You know, it wasn’t it honestly wasn’t bad. Look, we had more outlets than the people with tables, so that always works. But, uh, I’ve been covering the Sharks. I think this will be third third season fulltime, fourth overall being in and around the team. I used to work for the Associated Press. Just did some game recaps for them, but uh, kind of just fell backwards into some roles formerly of the Hockey News. I love them. They they treated me right, but uh, moved on to some some bigger and better ventures with NHL.com and then split off from the Hockey News and started uh, Sharks Hockey Digest, which should gain a lot of momentum here coming up. Was really good over the draft. So, if you want to look for that, most of the coverage will be there at sharkshockeydigest.com. Totally free. All my stuff’s unlocked. No, no premiums, at least not yet. I’m not big enough for that yet. But, uh, all the top Sharks coverage, news, insights, not only about the Sharks, but, you know, NHL news that’s big or any scoops that I get from other teams or whatever it might be will will also appear there. Awesome. Like, um, it was great meeting you at the draft as well. I kept tripping over everybody’s computers and outlets and everything. Uh it was it was great to be at a draft. Can you tell me about your experience with the decentralized draft and how it was like different for you than other drafts you’ve covered? Yeah, it was definitely a little bit different. Um maybe not necessarily on the draft process in terms of we wait to see who’s picked and then you go interview the player at the pod. Um I was at the one at the sphere which was crazy. Um, but when you when you look at it, I think from a convenience standpoint, from the front office perspective, look, it it sounds like it’s going to remain decentralized, but when you look at how it went and when you look at there, you know, one thing Mike Gray talked about a lot was like if he needed to get up and go to the bathroom or go get a snack, take a walk, something. And then the other thing is like he gets to sleep in his own bed after night one. And we know how long night one was last time this year. It was it was long. Um, but uh you do miss some of that, you know, seeing free agent, you know, uh you miss seeing some of the front office members, coaches around and just that camaraderie and there just kind of wasn’t as much buzz about it around. I I think there was a lot of more wind blowing and and and rumors going around, but it was overall it was it was fun. But, you know, I I think for us media members, the the the decentralized doesn’t change too much other than the fact that after, you know, instead of meeting with a front office member or GM at at at a pod after everything’s over, it was on Zoom for us. Um, which, you know, it’s not for for us Sharks members, it’s not unheard of. Oftent times when none of the three main traveling media members for the Sharks uh uh don’t travel, we’ll get a postgame Zoom. Uh, so everything will run the same where we’ll get three players, we request three players, and we get head coach Ryan Rosski. So it it’s not uncommon for for us and the Sharks to do a Zoom interview. We’ve had a bunch of them over the summer. We did Zoom for all the free agents that are coming in and signings and trades, whatever it might be. So in person’s always better when you’re talking to somebody. That’s just no questions. Like it’s just always going to be better. But, you know, it was fine. We got the work done, got the job done, and seeing the players and going face to face in front of the players is is arguably the most important thing in that entire weekend. Yeah. And obviously the Sharks have an incredible young core with players like Celibbrini, Will Smith, um Michael Misa, and I can name like 50 more, but can you tell me a little bit about like what you see with Michael Misa and his role? Do you think that he’s going to be the center uh for the two the second line for the next 101 15 years or are they going to play him with uh Mlin Celibbrini? Uh I I I think I’m going to go with the former, right? I think I think he fits more of a center than Will Smith does. Smith’s going to get a shot at 2C this year. Um it all kind of also depends on what Michael Misa’s status is. From everything I’ve heard, I don’t think he goes to the NCAA, but I can’t confirm and rule that out 100%. But if he signs, right, and he makes the team, I think we see a very similar process to how Will Smith was, right? He started as a center. I think they’ll start Misa as a wing and he’ll play center in a pinch. Um, I think his play style fits more of a center than Will Smith’s does. Um, but I think just learning the league, especially a guy like Michael Misa who is kind of right on the borderline ready for NHL and I, you know, how much is he really going to improve going back to the OHL, but he needs pro hockey. So, it’s tough decision to make when it comes to Michael Misa, but I think in terms of ease of development and learning the NHL, if he does make the NHL right away, I think he goes to the wing. I think they found a system that worked for a player that’s maybe not quite ready for a full center role and it keeps him in the top six if he goes to the wing, too. And it gives Will Smith a shot. And if Will Smith’s shot at center doesn’t work out, by the time you give him that runway, you can slide Misa in maybe halfway through the year and he can play that 2C role, maybe even 3C. Mhm. So like Michael Mis’s brother Luke obviously plays at Penn State now with two loaded players with Gavin McKenna and Jackson Smith who um they’re both incredible players. Do you think that the Sharks would want him to play at Penn State and try to be on a line with Gavin McKenna? There’s no really way of knowing. I think that would be in a perfect world amazing and I think Penn State would win and I think the Sharks are foaming at the mouth because if that happens then Reese Lbach who had a good season for for Penn State who’s a San Jose native seventh round pick a couple years ago he’s around some top talent. I do think Lobach’s role goes back down but from a development standpoint NCA is great. I think it does get that bridge that gap nicely but I just don’t know how much maybe Mis’s camp wants him to go to the NCAA. I think they feel like he’s ready. I mean, he’s shown he can be a top talent at the CHL level. He’s he’s of the of the nature where you could put him in in like a Jack Hughes situation where he’s maybe not quite ready for the NHL, but he give him that run and year two he goes off. And I think that might be a better comparable. Maybe not from a player profile standpoint, but from a timeline standpoint, I think, you know, Jack Hughes probably wasn’t ready for the NHL, but he’s number pick and he he made do. But in year two, I think he’s got what, 99 points, and he was great. So, it’ll be interesting to see, but I think, you know, maybe they would prefer to go to NCA, but I think they understand that, you know, you have to give a little to get and just you can’t just force him to go there if he doesn’t want to. Yeah. I remember year the after Jack Hughes’s rookie year, there was YouTube videos like worst rookie of all time, like instant bust, like things like that. Like obviously these players are 17, 18, 19 years old now with the weighted just the like weight on your shoulders that you have to be a franchise player or the savior to a franchise. I think Michael Misa is incredibly talented. I’m a Blackhawks fan and really wanted us to get a top two pick for Michael Misa, but can you talk to me a little bit about like Sam Dickinson and what you see with his progression? Do you do you see him as a number one defenseman? And just on the back end of the Sharks, like who are some players that are often overlooked? Yeah, for sure. Uh with Sam Dickinson, look, it it’s frustrating. He’s a late birthday because I think he deserves like 50 60 games at the NHL level, but I think he needs to start in the AHL. Just literally like 15 games. Get him get his feet wet in pro hockey. Bring him up. uh based on the trades we saw of Henry Thun and we look at the other moves and and Jack Thompson kind of Jack Thompson is Jack Thompson. Sam Dickinson is much higher level prospect. Um could he be a number one defenseman for the Sharks? Yes. I think depending on what they bring in maybe if they make a trade whenever that might be of who I don’t know. Sam Digon could be a number one defenseman. Yes. I think he fits better as a number two. Devont Taves with maybe a little bit more offense. Um, but I think you look at the moves. I think the Sharks are going to start with eight defenseman on the roster because Sam Dickson has at least earned the right for nine games to just wait and see. Can’t go to the AHL unless it was next year. He could uh with the new CBA, but it is what it is. He he came into development camp a smiling happy golucky person like he always was, but like three times bigger. He is strong as can be. You could see from year one after the draft, he was like, “Oh, he’s a good player. He could be a sol player.” And then you look at his last season in in London and you went, “Holy cow, like he’s a really good defenseman.” And the fact the Sharks got him at 11. I think he’s got a higher upside than offensive upside than Lev Shunov. I think Lev Shunov might have a better overall well-rounded two-way game. I think some of the mistakes are a little cleaner on Lev Shunov’s spot. You know, I think they’re very similar players. I think they’re both really good skaters. I think, like I said, I think Dickson is a little bit more of that higher offensive potential. And I also think that’s just development. Michigan State and defense is that’s they’re an offensive heavy team through the forwards. London, I mean, Tim Dickinson was ridiculous. I mean, they would run two power two defenseman on the power play, right? He would be the point man with bonk in the middle. Like, it’s it’s that’s a defenseman drive the puck, carry the puck in the zone. I think that that development style is a little different. And I think team fit I think love shooting up fits the Blackhawks more anyway as for for for some underrated Sharks defenseman. I mean he made six games last year. Luca Kenyon was a fourth round pick. He’s actually the first defenseman from the 2024 initial draft to make the NHL. Wow. Which is surprising because he’s 5’10 and a very good skater AHL rookie team last year. Led all rookie defenseman in points. Uh I think he was like second or third in points by defenseman overall behind Jacob McDonald who was absurd. He was Kale Mar of the AHL ironically playing for Colorado’s minor league team. I think he’s a solid player. I think people are waiting to see what Shaq Mukumulan can do. We saw a glimpse of it and then he got hurt and I think he’s going to be really good shutdown player. Jack Thompson is a great puck mover, but with Dickinson being looking like he’s going to make an NHL spot, there’s one defenseman that likely is going to need to go down. And if I had to guess, it’s probably Jack Thompson Thompson. And he’s waver eligible. Um, I think if the Sharks were to send down anybody else, they’re getting claimed. I think Jack Thompson is the only one that you might be able to sneak through, but I don’t know. It It’s tough to see. Other defense prospects, I mean, Leo Wallinius and and Matis Havl are going to play in the AHL this year. They both signed. I’m interested to see what Zion Winius does. He’s kind of that unknown Swedish defenseman. What are you What are you going to see? We know Swedish defenseman are good skaters. Pro hockey adjusting to the North American ice. Barracuda had a massive roster turnover. Obviously, they’ve lost Andrew Powoski the MVP, but from a defensive perspective, that defense kind of got a massive overhaul. And then the last one is is is um uh Noah Beck. He he signed from Arizona State at the end of last season. um on a PTO and then he signed the rest of the way now. And it’s going to be interesting to see what he does in terms of if that game that sudden breakout that last year at ASU translates to pro hockey. Um big guy can skate, but he’s never really been like a top defense prospect and last year was oh where did this guy came kind of out of left field. So, I think it’s a great little, you know, prospect, you know, take a chance on, see what we can do. And and I I I think he’s the real big question mark cuz he nobody really kind of knows where that came from last year and if it can continue. So, I’ve been diving very deep into the deep end of the Sharks prospect pool and obviously I was a big Sam Dickinson guy. I think that Sam Dickinson the only thing that he had all the skills all the traits raw offensive potential and I do agree that I think that his offensive potential is a lot higher than Ardum Lechonov. I actually think that Sam Dickinson was overlooked or overshadowed because of Zayn Perk Zeve boy all those guys in the defense. Like there was a point in time where Sam Dickinson might have been the number two or three or four pick for the Blackhawks depending on how the lottery went. There was talk that the Blackhawks loved him. So when the Sharks got him at 11, everybody was like, “Oh, it’s only Sam Dickinson.” And then it’s like, well, for Blackhawks fans, but that was just I think Blackhawks fans coping a little bit because Blackhawks fans wanted Sam Dickinson and then there’s this narrative where you know he’s not a good player. I think that the thing with Sam Dickinson was could he think the game at high level and he obviously has choked that. He has like that’s that’s honestly that’s his best skill is thinking the game because he’s a good skater, not an amazing skater. He’s a very good skater, upper above average skater, but like what makes him that above average skater is because he’s always in the right spot because he thinks the game so well. Mhm. And there was this article that came out on the Athletic and his like his hockey IQ was like a four out of 10 and I was just like that doesn’t make much sense to me. So, there was kind of this narrative during his draft season that he didn’t have a high hockey IQ. And I thought that was dispelled very early on, uh, even this year or even last year. But, Luca is an incredible power player. And it’s not just power play. If this guy has any space, he looks like a fourth forward out there. I think that that’s like one thing that Blackhawks fans or fans that are just like tailing who has the best prospect pool don’t really look at. I think the goalie situation for the Sharks is something to admire because there’s three starting goalenders in my opinion with I don’t I don’t know how you feel about Michael Harel or um Oscar is obviously a great player and then you got Ravens Bergen, but can you tell me a little bit about like who you think would be the 1A 1B or like the tier of those uh goalies like of of in terms of like are we predicting predicting in the future, excuse me, or are we talking like like predicting in the future. Yeah. Predicting the future, you know, I think Ascarov is touted as the guy. I think Ravensburgen is is a project. I think you could see it’s a really long shot to happen, but it’s a really weird vision that I keep seeing. I almost see like a Pekkarina Jussi Sorrow situation. They’re a little closer in age obviously between Ravensburg and Asarov, but like 5 years is significant. I think Ravensburg needs a lot of time to to gear up and I mean obviously he had an injury but he still showed flashes last year rated the number one goalie prospect when they took him I was I was a little surprised they took a goalie it’s like you already but when you look at the prospect of Ravensburg and you’re like wait that’s that’s a pretty damn good core and then you throw on Matt Davis who’s done nothing but win Matt Davis projects to be a pretty solid NHL backup who needs some time in the NHL and he’s or in the AHL and he’s with the Barracuda now and and I think That’s, you know, I think when you look at the Sharks goalie prospect pool, it’s it’s very high upside. It just needs to be done right, which the Sharks have not done since Debbakov. So, it’s kind of scary, but when you look at Thomas Beer’s track record, Romanov was kind of a project goalie and he looked solid. I was a little surprised they didn’t qualify him. Uh Devin Kulie, who nobody knew about at all whatsoever, joined the NHL and became in a month like a very solid goalie and was arguably the best goalie in the AHL this past season for Calgary. Um and nobody knew who he was. I I was like, who is this guy? He’s from Lo He’s from Los Gatos. He’s from the area. I’ve never heard of him. Really nice guy and he turned into a really good goalie. And you look at Thomas Beer and Ryan Miller and you you look at Aenni Debbachov, they seem to be all working the same wavelength. I don’t know what this fascination is with right-handed catching goalies. Ravensburgen, Ascarov, Davis. You know what? If it works, it works. If they can stop the puck, I think that’s all they’re going for. It just seems to be that they see these guys and they start catching right-handed. And we see it a little bit more frequently now. But long-term, I think dream scenario is Ascrov is your guy for a long time. And Ravensburg just is there. And then you don’t overwork one of the two of them. you can wear a 1A1B with Asgrov playing 55 60 62 games and then when he starts getting older you kind of flip the roles and Ascrov runs into the backup 50/50 almost and then you go from there almost a Tukar rasque yaro hok timeline you know like where Tukaras is your guy but he’s playing 50/50 you’re not wearing him out and he’s so solid because of it and then once Ascrov’s time in the sun is over Ravensburg’s 27 28 right in the prime of a goalie keep on coming like you know what I mean like I feel like you’ve you’ve separated it out maybe a little too close for my liking but it’s definitely a possibility. Yeah. So I wanted to talk to you about like to go back to the goalie talk with Ravensburg and I talked to Shang as soon as like that pick happened and I was like what do you think and he’s like well I believe he was like Andreanov is signed till 2030 and the Blue Jackets took him. I think it was just value based. He was kind of a little confused, but other than that it was like value. And then the Sharks got Simon Wang. Can you tell me a little bit about like what your first reaction was when they took him and like was he on your radar for the Sharks to take? Very high upside, good skating, big defenseman playing at Boston University next year. Yeah. Uh well, he’s going to stay he’s going to stay in the OHL one more year and then he’s going to go to BEu because he didn’t play full-time in the OHL last year. So he’s going to do one more year there and then he’s going to go there. And so how she Wang, which is he wants it written as how she parenthesis Simon Wang at the draft they told us he was Simon Wang and then when we got to development camp he’s like I think I think PR got to him was like no if you want to go by how she you can and he’s such a nice guy. We went to interview him. He went to grab like the Sharks Audio Network microphone like no no no we’ll hold it for you. You just talk. So he’s a very nice guy. He was a little bit on my radar but not from a defense perspective. I think they when I was looking at it, I think they wanted something more projectable. And not to say that that that Hosshi Wang isn’t. I just think the Sharks and you could look at this for almost every single one of their picks other than Misa like these are all high upside guys that are going to take a while. And I think when when you look at where the prospect pool is, you kind of need to to space out a little bit. Hton’s coming in. Musty’s coming in. Um, Graph needs time. Cardwell needs time. Misa, Celabbrini, Smith, like you need time to kind of let top guys that you have ready now or close to ready now get their role so that you can develop and then have that next feed come in right underneath it to feed in. And when you look at the upside of a lot of the players that they picked and that’s, you know, how she Wang too, like they don’t fill in to be top six guys. How Wang may be a top four shutdown guy and skating. I put out a clip during development camp. It was Wang versus Misa. The amount of edgework control that Hosshi Wang had was absurd. Misa still made a move, but Wang, you know, got it. The biggest thing with him is puck. I mean, whether it’s collecting the puck off the boards, moving the puck, making a good breakout pass, shooting it, getting it through screens, not not over pinching and knowing when to do that. He’s going to shut down plays on the wall, which is something Ryan Warski desperately wants from every player on the team. And I think you look at Shaq Mukum Madullan, Hosshi Wang, and Sam Dickson, you’re like that’s a big trio. Sam Dickson can run the offense. Mukuman’s a good puck mover and shuts down plays beautifully. And Hosi Wang, if he develops properly, should be the same thing as Mukuma Mullan. Great skater, probably a better skater than Muka Mullan, and can shut down plays really well, which is something you need. You need big tree trunks on the back end to win Stanley Cups as we’ve seen. I asked Ravensburgen what his biggest strength was at the combine and he said it was his skating and I thought that was interesting. And then Simon Wang his best trait might be his skating and also Michael Misa might be his skating cuz everybody says he skates like the wind and and his skating is absolutely unbelievable. So it seems like the Sharks kind of prioritize skating this year. Is that something that like um they wanted to do or was it just like the players that were available? I think it was a mixture of both. I think I definitely think this was just like, you know what, because the Sharks didn’t make any moves. They they used all their picks. It was very quiet quiet draft for them, if you will. Um, but I definitely think you look at the Sharks and their struggles, their biggest struggle, even when they were trying to be competitive, but not in the first few years of when they kind of needed to rebuild, but they didn’t do it yet. Their biggest letdown was their skating. I mean, they were not fast. They were not fluid. that brought in Eric Carlson helped with that. But that’s back in Eric Carlson. And Eric Carson is not going to play much defense and use that skating for defense. Burns was a good skater, but on the wrong side of 35. Um, still a good player, still a good skater, but he’s not going to hit. He’s not going to block shots. Um, he’s going to shoot the puck a lot. That’s Brent Burns. But you look at, you know, Thomas Bordal, who they traded, okay skater. Ecklund has really worked on his skating. He’s a good skater now. Will Smith, you know, his flaw is skating. And as a centerman, you need that skating ability. So when you look at Misa, like outright, like that’s one of the main reasons why I project Misa as a center over Will Smith because of the skating. Celebrin is a great skater. Um Colin Grass a good skater, right? You look at some of these things. Haltonin, great shot, biggest flaw, skating. Musty, good shot, great offensive instincts. What’s he need to work on? Needs to bring that skating and the defensive IQ up. So when you look at kind of a prospect need team needed size and skating and I guess just kind of the way the board fell to them it kind of worked out right because they didn’t go like huge other than how she wang but like Cole McKini like everybody other than Goland in seventh round were all big players who could skate bigger players who could skate Max he like that dude can fly and he’s big he doesn’t know kind of where his limbs are going cuz he’s still developing into his body kind of like Kevin Durant when he was young in his career when he was like really lanky and floppy and all over the place because he couldn’t figure out the coordination. Christophs Porzingis even he could fly, he’s big, he could move, he could shoot. And the Sharks needed that. And that kind of when you work on guys who can skate and bring it to another level, everything else after that from a hockey perspective, I mean, everything I’ve been told from when my playing days were happening was work on your skating. After you skate, everything else falls into place. So if you have the skating down and you don’t need to do that, skating is the hardest thing to perfect and improve. If you have that down and you don’t need to minim you can minimally improve that as you go and everything and work on all the other stuff you’re going to be a better player because you don’t have to worry about the main thing in hockey which is skating the puck or skating to an area or skating everything comes from skating. So I think it really works for the Sharks and it’s something they’ve been you know needing. I wouldn’t say lacking but needing an upgrade in for for all levels whether it’s development prospects NHL AHL everywhere to ask you about like we were at Tom’s watch bar I believe for like the media we got yeah the party or whatever it was yeah yeah there was a moment when at the event everybody kind of was talking about Misa going three to the Blackhawks and Fondo going two. Did you think that it was going to be fondelle at any moment during that day? And was was that just all smoke? Obviously, it was smokec screen, but why do you think that all came out? So, I have a few theories that the day before the first round, so when we were at Tom’s Walk party, I was very much like, okay, from everything I’ve heard and people I’ve talked to, like someone told me, you know, all this stuff about Fondell is coming out now so it can prepare the fan base. And that was the one where I was like, “Yeah, that makes sense. Sharks fans are pissed.” And the amount of DMs and texts from friends and family and people are like, “If they take I’m gonna be and I was like, you know, I’m I’m also on the Misa. I think they should take Misa.” I was on the side where Schaefer is the number one guy, but like even if they had the number one pick and they picked Misa, I’d be like, that’s a great pick because the offensive upside is the best of the draft and I think it’s a little better than than Celerinis. But when you look at, you know, when I heard that, I was like, “Okay, I think it’s I think it’s going to be Fondell.” The next morning, I reached out to some people and I talked to other people and there were no extra meetings between Misa and the Sharks and Fondell and the Sharks. From everything I heard about the meeting with the Sharks, between Misa at the combine, it was they were really, really, really high on them. They liked him. And I think like the night before I was like don’t be surprised there’s a frontal but when I put up my actual prediction like two hours before the draft I was like 60% confident in Misa so I went with Misa I was like you know what all this talk I know I said frontell yesterday but I think it’s going to be Misa and when we spoke to the Sharks and my career after was like no he’s been our guy for a while. So then you throw in the theory is like my career I think might be a master smoke screen person or he’ll just say something where he knows it’s like little little it might some little bit might get out there but like it shouldn’t mean anything but he kind of knows the system if you will and this is all theory I don’t know if he’s doing this or not or people are just misconuring his words because Mike is is a very you know I wouldn’t say he’s a over yeah I mean you know like Danny Barrera talks a tonic was on podcast Mike is a quiet guy we’ve talked Mike like three to four times a year. Um, we’ve talked to him like four times this offseason. That’s that’s a lot for me since I’ve done this. And it’s good because he’s a good talker. Um, he’s still got the hockey player in him with the yos and the ums and the fillers. But it is what it is. But he’s an honest guy. Like he he he doesn’t let out information he doesn’t want to. He doesn’t care what questions you ask him. But if he doesn’t want to answer question, he won’t. And he won’t let out anything more by it. So, which makes me think it’s like, okay, he’s not trying to like, you know, there’s something coming or like if he wants to let us in on something before something comes out, he will. So, it’s I don’t know how it started. I don’t know where it started. Ryan Klo, the assistant GM, was also like, “Yeah, I don’t know where this started. This was never a discussion among like it sounded like it was Misa since like January.” Like like it it was if we’re one, we’re Schaefer, if it’s two, we’re Misa. And they were kind of like set in stone. I think three is where the wild card would have come in, but I think they knew what they were going to do, whether they were first or second. And I think after the draft lottery, they had a meeting, they went Misa, Misa. All right, it’s Misa. And I don’t know where the hell this Fondell stuff came from. But I do think I think if there was a team that was going to trade for number two, the closest was Utah. I know Utah and the Sharks spoke during the combine. Stephan Rosner of the hockey news told me that and the Elhers. But when you look at some of the reporting after the fact, right, there was that Utah was the most aggressive to get to two. So, it sounded like they wanted Misa. Um, the Sharks know what they have in Misa and I think they’re very excited about how they can kind of fit the puzzle pieces because I think after Will Smith’s success in the wing last year. I think that’s where they see him, but they’re going to do right by the player. They’re going to give him a chance at center. That’s his best. That’s his natural position. So, I don’t know where this frontell talk came from, but I I thought for a second it might have been. That was awesome. I had no idea where it came from. I was pleasantly surprised that it was even happening, but I watched Mike Greer’s or it was um what was it like the pre to the NHL draft and he was talking about both Anton Fondell and Misa and I was like maybe he maybe they are going. Yeah, like that’s what I mean. Like he’s very good at just like he was just answering questions, right? We were asking him questions about Misa and Fondell and right the Fondell rumors but he’s very good at just like you know we like the player like he’s just given what he scouted. Yeah. That doesn’t mean but you mean he was like well huh is there a little bit of a chance and that’s kind of where he does a good job of riding line. He’s like I’m just telling you what we know about the player. I didn’t say anything else. Yeah. Is there a prospect that in the Sharks organization that you think goes overlooked any position that is kind of like your one of your favorite players? Yeah, I mean I I I love Casper Hatton, but I feel like he’s kind of more wellnown now, especially after the two seasons he’s had. Luca Kenyon was always kind of my like he’s my guy. But when you look at a guy like Joey Muldown, excuse me, Joey Muldown or or Brandon Fabota, like Muldown, one thing misses his size, but he played really well at Yukon last year, really well. And I think you’re going to sign him at the end of this season, uh, upcoming season. Fabota projects to be like a perfect fourthline center who could chip in. Yeah. Nobody expect him to make team USA. He scores a big goal in the gold medal game. You know, he doesn’t play a ton, but he makes an impact. Big guy, can skate, father has that NHL experience. Sharks love having former NHLers in their organization. Look, Brandice Fabota is not going to make headlines and waves and be this top end major prospect, but he’s going to fill a role, an NHL role perfectly. And I think him and Muldown, who has high upside to be like a middle six, second power play, fit in the top power play scorer, rush scorer, that could work. But Sabota fits a puzzle piece that nobody’s going to talk about. It’s going to take time. He’s 20. Could sign after this year, but I don’t think so. I think they let him gonna go three years and then sign, but we’ll see what he does in BEu this year. If he has a good year, maybe moves up to the third line center. I think he’s a perfect bottom six center. He’s responsible. He’s big. He gets to the front of the net and he can shoot the puck. He’s He’s a perfect fourthline center. You know, you need a goal, Nick Benino will score you 13 goals a year, right? Like he’ll score you 15 goals a year. And if you need a net front power play depth guy who’s going to grind, he’s really good in front and he’s got great touch in front of the net. So I would say Muldown and Fabot are my two kind of unsung heroes with Canon finally getting some love uh this past season. I will throw obviously Quinton Musty is well known, but I was a huge Quinton Musty fan. I wanted the Blackhawks to trade up to get him. I thought he was falling way too much. I’m still upset that the Sharks got him and Trernish because Trernish is absolutely a beast. and him and Misa. I don’t think anybody really is talking about what they’re going to do on that second line in my opinion. I think that they will put Chernob on the second line to be with him, but who knows? I mean, their top six is loaded, so I have absolutely no idea where he would play. Um, yeah. Do you have an opinion on where he would play? Do you think he could be third line? Musty or Chernov? Trinishoff. Chernov I think in an ideal world is if he goes peak development is a second line winger who’s going to play in front of the on the power play he’s good puck mover great puck protector but I think in a per I think in the Shark system I think he’s going to be a you know can he plays off wing I think he can in a pinch but I don’t think he’s a full-time off-wing kind of guy he’ll score he’ll move the puck his skating needs to go up another level right and you look at Chernov and you look at the season he had edge work is great but speed, that foot speed needs to come up. I think in a perfect world, I think he and Miser together on the second line, which is a deacto first line on some teams at peak development, but I feel like given the opportunity and probably the moves the Sharks are going to make in terms of free agency or whether whatever happens to trade, I think Chernov might be unless he develops really good more of a third line scoring winger um who will get good minutes. He’ll be that like upper end third line who plays 16 minutes a night. He won’t play the third line 12 to 15. He’s at 16. You know, he he’ll get runs and OT cuz he’s got that space and skill and puck protection. He’ll be on a power play unit. He he might even be on the first one just from a scheme perspective. But it’s tough to see where Musty has that offensive instinct that’s really good and I think he just needs to work on the little things and he showed that a little bit in in in development camp at the scrimmage. when you look at the defensive side of the thing, it’s tough and and he seems like a guy who can get frustrated easily. He’s so far battled through it, but I I think he makes his NHL debut this season. He’s going to play in the AHL. I’m interested to see what kind of camp both of those guys have cuz I think either one of them could surprise and be like the They had a good camp. We’re we’re going to start them in the NHL. I don’t think they’ll be in the NHL full-time right away, but I think one of one or both could start in the NHL this season if they have really good camps because the Sharks, the biggest thing my career said is they don’t want to block a young guy’s path and they’ve shown they won’t do that. Um they might pull up a Colin White out of a true like we need a center like an actual center and they’ll pull up a Colin White for two games or an Andrew Powski for three games. But when you look at now you have Smith, Celibbrini, Misa, um, and potentially more down the middle. Wenberg, Godette can play in the middle. Kurv could play the middle if you desperately need him to. Goodro can play the middle. Like, you’re you’re fine down the middle in terms of spots now. Like, you don’t have to keep rolling out Luke Cunning as your third line center. Um, so I think you could see them make the NHL roster. I don’t think Gadro gets cut. I don’t think Reeves gets cut, but I wouldn’t I’m more confident Goodro not getting cut than I am Reeves, but they traded for Reeves and they give up a pretty valuable asset for it. Um, but I could see one or both of Chernaw Musty making the NHL roster out of camp this year. What do you like project the Sharks to do this year? Are they in the McKenna race or are they somewhere where the Ducks were this year? Uh, they won’t be where the Ducks were. They’ll be better, but they’ll be in the McKenna race in the in the four through seven rankings rather than the rather than the the top four or top three, I should say. At least I think so. I think they’ll be better. Look, they they 20 like 23 I think it was like onegoal losses, some absurd number like that. But like a bunch of those one goal losses were blown third period leads or Yeah. Like like I’m still not a fan of the defense core. I think Orv is great. I like the letad. We’ll see what Muka Madulan does. I like Lodrian more than some people do. Not a huge Vinnie Darren fan on the ice. Off the ice. I’m a huge Vinnie Darren fan. He’s hilarious. Um I loved run off the ice. I thought he was a good player on the ice. I just his skating wasn’t up to par from where the Sharks needed it. Dickinson is a higher prospect, a younger prospect, a cheaper prospect with more team control. Thron was the odd man out. Um the Orlavat is great. Other than Dickinson and Kenyon eventually, I don’t see much offensive upside. And even then, those guys aren’t going to put up 70 points each on the back end. Ferraro is probably going to get traded eventually and I think Ferrar deserves a shot at a place with a winning environment to help his development if there’s any left cuz I think he’s just worn down as from the losing. So, they’ll be better, but we’ll see what happens with the goalending too if it can hold up because Nadalovich can get hurt and ask a little bit of an injury issue as well. So, I wanted to ask like one or two more questions. One was there’s this thing going around Celibbrini versus Bard and obviously I’m on like team Bard slightly. I think most Sharks fans would be on team Cabbrini. Can you give your debate on why it should be CBrini? And while you answer I was gonna cop out. I was gonna cop out and say offensively Connor Baddard well-rounded Mlini and then just leave it because that’s literally all the question is is I think Baddard literally just needs some help and you’ll see him explode offensively. I I think Bernard has got a better wrist shot. He’s got decent hands. I think Celbrini needs to be more creative with his hands. Baddard has that creativity. I think Celibbrini is a faster skater than Baddard. Bard might have slightly better edge work, but both are kind of even there. I think if you’re looking from a team perspective, if you look at Connor Bernard’s player comps, none of them are Sydney Crosby. When you look at Mlin Celabbrini’s player comps, it’s Sydney Crosby, Jonathan Taves. Those are two very different players. Bard being Patrick Kaine or Jack Hughes or um Matthews. Matthews, not quite McDavid. Well, relax. I just throw it in names. Relax. Um, Ryan Mloud. Um, but um I just think it’s going to be hard to compare them. It’s hard to compare Ovetchkin and Crosby because Crosby’s an MVP. Obie’s an MVP. Ovuchkin isn’t a defensive workhorse. Crosby is. And when you look at I mean you could tell me who Bernard’s idol was, but all Celbrrini does is gush and talk about how much he loves Sydney Crosby. Yeah. The dude is like a living embodiment of what he wants to be and he does everything to try to be Sydney Crosby. And then you go to the world championships. Hey Mac, you want to you want to play with Crosby? And it’s like they’ve been playing together for 15 years because Crosby or Celine knows exactly what Crosby is going to do because all he does is watch Sydney Crosby. So when it comes to Connor Baddard, it it it’s tough because are they they’re different players. It’s a team fit in my mind. What do you need? And I think from the Sharks perspective, the offensive upside you’re getting from Misa, not not Celabbrini. And Celabbrino put up 90 to 100 points. I think Misa will be 100 110 points. So that’s a great answer to that question. I wish out I wish it was just, you know, Bard and that was it. Um sorry. No, I’m kidding. Yeah. Um, so can you tell me a little bit about like the Blackhawks versus a Sharks prospect pool and like it it like what are your thoughts on it? Yeah, I just I haven’t done as much deep dive on the Blackhawks pool, but you know, obviously being a Sharks writer, you’re focusing on that. You’re writing on that, and you look at the Blackhawks pool, it just looks like they’ve got a lot of very similar spots to kind of how the Sharks drafted this year where you’ve got that upside that that that kind of unknown upside where you could see it, but it has to go right other than Connor Badard. I for the Sharks, like you could see pieces fitting in, and it’s kind of hard to see pieces fitting in and a direction. I think the Blackhawks tried to go veteran support a little too quickly and they’re not the right veterans. I like the Ryan Dano ad. Um, but like Tyler Tofoley like he’s won and Tyler Defoley does not equal Nick Fino and Pat Maroon. Like Tyler Tofo is is better than those guys and scored 30 goals again. And if he didn’t score 30 goals again, you know, Tofuli works hard. Tofolei and you look at how they were off the ice, you don’t see Bernard much with some of the older guys off the ice. And you look at Tofoley with Smith and Cabbrini. He’s literally the fun uncle. Like he’s the dad. Like he slept over with them on a couch bed because they all scored in the same game. What What veteran would do that? Like what veteran does that? But that shows you what it is. But then when you look at that, like it’s one thing to have that and the Blacks could have had that but like to scored 30 goals. I I think Tofoley’s probably the next captain of the Sharks if I’m being honest with you. Um I just think when the Blackhawks they’ve got a lot of I don’t want to say slower development but it’s going to take like meticulous and detailed whereas you can kind of see the Sharks like going back to the Sephobotto one, right? Like yeah like he was a second round pick like but like are you drafting him to be a top six? No, you’re drafting him to be a fourthline center and you look at where he’s playing for BEu and you look at where he it got him for the world in in world juniors and how well he played that role and how well he played the role for two seasons now. Like they’re they’re drafting not necessarily off for need but like upside with a purpose if you will and I feel like that with a purpose is lacking somewhat on the Blackhawk side. I think you see Conor Baddard and I think that hype maybe got to their heads a little bit where it’s like oh we got our we got our McDavid. Nobody’s McDavid. I don’t like if you take McDavid off Dry Cidle’s team, Dry Cidle can get you there, but you need a better team there. But I don’t know if Dry Cidle’s that McDavid level. I’m going to carry you for four straight games. I think Dry Cidle needs a little bit of help, but he’s still a, you know, top three player in the league. That’s just how good McDavid is. And I think that the comparisons of Bard to Crosby level and and and McDavid level, I think maybe kind of got the Blackhawks front office a little too excited. Um, but the first year was good and you saw what he did with Kurishv and I just feel like it the pieces didn’t fit. I’m going to make a really bad baseball analogy here. I’m a New York Yankees fan and the the Yankees cannot do anything right right now. They are everything you hear is is a baseball team is a puzzle piece. You need the fundamentals and everything to fit in place and the Yankees have a lot of really good players and young players, but the puzzle just isn’t correct. Like it’s just not fitting. And I’m not saying the same thing is going to happen with Blackx or is happening, but I feel like the prospect pool is kind of a little all over the place. You don’t see a direction. You see a little bit with Lev Shunov and Bard. You see your two horses, but I feel like you’re kind of looking around. They have some other good players, but you’re kind of looking around a little bit more. So, I did like their draft this year. Um, it’s going to be interesting when I pull up their Pedia, their prospects, when I look at, you know, their players. They’ve got good players. I, you know, I’m not a huge fan of the of the what’s it called? The the I’m totally blanking on the move right now. The Tyler Batuzzi contract is what it is. Like like why? Like you’re not trying to win. Yeah. Um but I you know Oliver Moore is a really good player. Landis Lagard’s a decent player. I love Connor Zerry. Fondell is going to be a stud. But when you look at that you’re like okay you’ve got a lot of good young players but where are you missing? and defense. You know, you look at Dickinson, I think the Sharks don’t have as top end defense, but it’s deep. I don’t see that deepness in the Blackhawks defense prospect pool that the Sharks and the Sharks don’t have a top end prospect pool from the defense either. Like that’s not Dickinson and Muka Madulan and Thompson and Kenyon are great, but like you look at some of the other systems, there’s much better defense cores out there in terms of systems. Yeah. I think the interesting part about the like the Blackhawks defensive core was that they stopped drafting defense the last two three years. It was like Korchinsky Renzel and then Lev Shunoff at two and then Tai Henry in the seventh round. So it was really interesting. Uh right that depth seems to be missing on their and that’s what I mean like you got the high upside but it’s just missing some of those puzzle pieces where it’s like you know Muka Madulan doesn’t project to be a top pairing guy. They traded for him. They needed him. Hosi Wang doesn’t project to be a top pairing guy but he’s like going to be a shut down you know five six four five six defenseman. Mulan’s a good number three. You’re kind of missing that top guy. Dickson could be it. Leunov could be that number one. But I feel like when you look past those top prospects, both are kind of missing something. But when you compare the Sharks and the Blackhawks, the Sharks have the pieces to fill in, whereas the Blackhawks just kind of aren’t right now. Yeah. I So the thing about the Blackhawks prospect pool is a lot of them are older, like 22 23 with Ethan Del Mastro, who was actually traded for Porter Barton way back when, which is always an interesting fun fact. Wyatt Kaiser, Nolan Allen, who was a first round pick, but kind of flared out. um not flared out, but hasn’t really done what he was supposed to do. Kevin Cchinsky is not a top 10 player in my opinion in a class. Um not to say that he’s a bad player, just offensive upsides there. I I just feel like Renzel was needed to pop, which he did in that draft. Like obviously Ardum left could have number one potential, but Vassic is the guy who is a shutdown, but he might be more of a a second pair than a top line. They’re top, right? He’s the Shikir Mukulan, but when you look at the skating ability, it’s there. I I look at those two as very similar. I think Muko Madulan might have a little bit more offensive instinct than Vlastic, but Vasic’s trying. It’s tough because they have similar pieces, but that depth of where are those remaining defense prospects instead of hoping for these guys that have been here for a little bit to go. Like, you got to keep filling the back end and you could throw it back to the Sharks at the Ravensburg pick. If Ashgrav doesn’t work out in three years and really is like that glove hand is a problem, the injuries are a problem. It’s just not working, you have another guy that’s filling the back end. If Casper Hamilton doesn’t work, you’ve got Eigor Chishov and vice versa. And you just look at those kind of maybe not fail safes, but like you’ve got the fill-ins, the depth where you can try different pieces and try different options. And if both work, then you’ve got trade assets to go for when you are winning. And I feel like a lot of people forget that the Blackhawks and Sharks took the first two goalies off the board in 2023, Guyian and Harabble. And I don’t know if either one is going to work out to be what they were drafted for cuz Jacob Fowler was obviously in that draft and there were some other pieces. But it was kind of interesting that those guys were drafted. The Hawks have Lardis. I don’t know if you’re high on Lardis or Roman Canerof who’s in the KHL playing pretty good. Uh but they don’t really have a lot of high upside players. They took Vaslav Neril and Mason West who were their high upside players this year but before this year there was like very it was middle six maybe um top nine players filling out their bottom six. It was it was really interesting. I probably if I was the GM of the Blackhawks I would have taken a little more risks uh on some of the places that they drafted. I would have taken Demidov just for that. I was kind of higher on Boyam uh and he fell so I was probably a little wrong on that but then love Shunoff but I feel like the Hawks were a little safer and I think the Sharks and the Hawks both were higher risk this year. They both did the exact same very similar drafts. They got their dependable guy in the top one. I think Misa is a little better than Fondell. That is what it is. I think that’s what the consensus is. But when you look at the remainders of the draft, that upside that we talked about, whereas it kind of top of their board, their projects, they’re going to take some time. But when you look at the Sharks, like I feel like you’ve got your pillars, you got a couple more pillars than the Blackhawks do. And that’s not to the Blackhawks. And who knows, people come out of nowhere. People come out of left field. And is there anything else that you wanted to like talk about before we let you go? Um, why the Sharks are going to be the 2026 Stanley Cup champ? No, that’s not um I’m interested I’m interested to see the biggest thing for both these teams and I’ll leave it at this because I know we’re focusing prospects but technically Bernard and Cabbrine are still kind of prospects. Um what does year three and two do for them? Because all this talk about prospects is great and I wrote this in my team reset story for NHL.com that came out yesterday on Wednesday. The biggest thing for the Sharks now is you got to continue to add veteran pieces. It’s not time to go for it yet, but it’s development. Like, if Celabbrini flattens out as a 70point guy, cool. That’s a second line center. You need you need Misa now to be your topline center. Do I think Cellrini is going to be a 70point guy? No. I think CBrin is going to be a superstar. Scores 90 points every season is going to win an MVP or two. Um cuz he strikes me as a guy eventually to drag his team into the fight because he just doesn’t stop. I mean, the guy doesn’t stop uh at all. Um, so the biggest thing for me for both teams and you can look at Bard’s sophomore slump, how is he responding this year? Well, he’s training with Celabbrini, which we knew was happening. He’s training Luca Kenyon. He’s training with Ravensburg and like they’re all in Vancouver. All these Vancouver boys training together. So will their development and after celebr’s first season and Smiths for that matter too and Bernard after seeing okay when you’re the guy which Cabbrini I think faced sooner than Bernard like Bernard was number one center but they kind of shielded him a little bit and the injury kind of kept the film on him. Cabbrini only missed those 12 games. When you look at that Celabbrini after like he was the guy like even kind of before the trade deadline he was already kind of being used as the guy and then after the deadline and well just before foreign nations when they traded Grand was like all right we’re rolling you 22 minutes a game here you go kid and I’m interested to see how teams now adjust to them and how they play Bedard included with okay you’re the guy like you got to step up here how will they step up in their next years because I would argue celebrini’s second half of this rookie year was very similar to Baddard’s second half of his first year where it’s you’re the guy and I think Baddard not to say he was overshadowed a little bit. I think Bard didn’t have as much help last year as Cellrreeni did because Kersev didn’t translate. Kersev was injured and didn’t translate and that’s the guy they hoped to take the next level like William Ecklund. But who was going to be next to them? The Sharks were able to fill that with Tyler DeFoley and Smith’s second half of the year was on the wing and he was able to have great chemistry with Celerini and Colin Graph stepped up and you just look at that. So what next steps? Because without those next steps, neither of these teams are getting out of the seller, the basement like Mhm. Like great, you have all these prospects. Get them good. Now that’s that’s everything. You still need to fill them a little bit and you need to fill the roster out a little bit, but without the development, these teams are nothing. They are nothing because you are flattened out on prospects that were supposed to be very good and your core and didn’t work. And that’s how you have to be patient. You have to do it right. But if you don’t, you’re screwed because they have invested a ton. These are full rebuilds. If you don’t hit on these picks, you’re starting another rebuild and you have to have hit. They look like they have, but will they hit full enough? If you will, I want to say one thing about Mlin Cbrini when he was playing for the Chicago Steel and even when the Blackhawks were very close to get him, this guy was always a superstar. He’s a four. He plays with that fourthline mentality that I’ve never seen a superstar have. He has all the traits, all the talent. So, I don’t think it’s out of this world to say it’s probably a 50/50 split between who you would want to build your team with, Bard or Celebrity. It’s a team fit. It’s a team fit. Yeah. I’ve I’ve I’m coming to this now after seeing Mlin Celebrity’s incredible run that like last year and I feel like he didn’t even it’s like the tip of the iceberg like you don’t see that work ethic doesn’t scream bust like you’re 70 point guy that I know I mean I did were you in the conversation with us the draft with Ravensburg or no I don’t remember I don’t think you were wait when you guys were interviewing him yeah well so here’s what I think was because I think Ravensburgen was ready in the pod before we got like me, Shang, and Curtis got him before. So, if you got him in the pod, I don’t know if he told you this story, but Ravensburgen uh or maybe he told us this. No, he told us this at the draft. He’s been skating with Cabbrini. They were on the ice for like an hour and a half and he was drenched in sweat and sweaty and celebr. And then he got back on like 15 minutes later after having like protein or whatever and Ravensburg’s like I’m out of gas. And it was his first game of the summer. He lost 8 lbs because of Mlin’s just like we’re going. We’re still going and he’s doing shots breakaways. And Ravensburg is like I’m exhausted bro. I’ve lost and he lost 8 pounds in one skate because of celebr was on the ice for two and a half hours and didn’t want to leave. Yeah, he left for resurfacing. Yeah, that’s what I mean. I think that was in our little mini scrum after not the pod scrum because we were on with Greer and everybody during that time. That’s part of the decentralized problem, right? We they were ready for us so we had to wait for Wow, what a great story. And yeah, Celebriny is going to be a superstar. I I totally see him winning an MVP. I know I’m probably going to get hate from the Blackhawks in the comments section, but I think they’ll both win an MVP in their career. I I really do. They’re different players. One’s a skill guy, one’s a work ethic guy with skill. And not to say Bernard doesn’t work hard, but like they’re both MVP caliber. I think they’ll both win one. Voter fatigue is a thing. It’s why no Nicole Joic didn’t win MVP again. Like that just he deserved it. SGA was great, but Joic is the MVP. No questions asked. They’re both going to win MVP. They’re both MVP caliber. They’re just two different players and it’s hard to compare them. Yeah. Yeah. So, let’s close it up there like a Hot Ones video. There’s a camera here, here, and here. It’s the middle one. So, tell everybody what you got going on and what you got coming up. Uh, well, the summer time is slow right now. Um, which is kind of good because I think the season is going to be really busy for both of us. Um, but it’s it’s going well. Obviously, just continuing to develop and and age Shark Talk Digest. Again, that’s my baby. That’s truly a baby I created. Had my fiance’s dad help me with the logo and the background, the design of it. Um, so any support just reading it is is super awesome and welcome and and and I’m always happy to talk. Broadcaster by trade writer by practice now I guess if you will. Uh, so I’m always happy to talk and interact with people online digest.com with NHL.com. You’ll see all the stuff on there in NHL.com for the Sharks and maybe some other teams whatever you know comes through San Jose. I should have decent amount of coverage on Mitch Mner’s debut. That’s for sure because it’s happening in San Jose. So, I’m kind of bummed because if me saying Dick gets to make their initial debut, I I’m gonna get yelled at to be like, “You have to go to Martner and I’m like, I don’t know what to do.” So, it’ll be a fun year. It’s gonna be a busy year, but all the coverage you’ll find is NHL.com and Shark HockeyDigest.com. Uh, Twitter, real_max_miller. Same thing on Instagram. I’m going to try and build up a Tik Tok, but I don’t know how that thing works. I I’m not a video editor. I am a I’m a video talker, not an editor. I will link everything in the description. I actually just created a Tik Tok. It had like five followers and then I posted like four videos of Mason West and it got like now it has like 750 followers. So I have no idea how that works. I have no idea how Tik Tok works, but they love interviews. So you just clip it. But um yeah. Hey, send me this. We’ll clip it. We’ll collab. We’ll post together. Heck yeah. Heck yeah. I’m always down to do that. And I always love talking puck with somebody that really knows it. And you obviously really know it. So, I’m definitely going to be pushing some of your content out. I love it and I loved meeting you at the draft. So, yeah. Thank you so much for coming on.

Max Miller #SJSharks Beat Reporter & creator of
@SharksHKYDigest SJS correspondent for @NHLdotcom on X
https://x.com/Real_Max_Miller
https://sharkshockeydigest.com/

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Max Miller and Sharks Hockey Digest
01:31 Decentralized NHL Draft Experience
03:30 Analyzing Sharks’ Young Core and Michael Misa
06:32 Sam Dickinson’s Potential and Overlooked Defensemen
10:19 Sharks’ Goalie Prospects and Future Predictions
14:26 Drafting Strategies and Player Comparisons
20:16 Skating as a Priority in Draft Selections
23:26 Comparing Blackhawks and Sharks Prospect Pools
30:17 Future Projections for Sharks and Blackhawks
35:13 Celebrini vs. Bedard: The Great Debate
40:26 Closing Thoughts and Future Outlook

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