Pirates Fan Forum Ep. 204 – Deadline Day Wrap Up

Pirates Fan Forum Ep. 204 – Deadline Day Wrap Up

[Music] [Music] [Music] Hello and welcome to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. I am your exhausted from talking about trades host Gary Morgan who is going to spend the night talking about trades because this is the first time I’m just going to be as raw as possible as we go through it. Jim and I can’t wait. How are you doing, brother? How am I doing? Uh not too good, Gary. I mean, uh like everybody right now, I am just um a little bit shell shocked. So, uh, we got we got a lot to talk about, don’t we? Lot of questions pouring in already. Like, honest to God, wouldn’t you at least love the answer? Why? Falter gone, Dave gone, Hayes gone, Ferguson gone. I I hear you. We’re going to get to all of it. And And Jim, there’s going to be a lot of different ways that people try to grade this damn thing, right? People love to grade the deadline. How did they do? And then some jackass in a suit says, “Oh, they did that. That was about about a C++. I’d say those some pretty damn good prospects they got back.” Right? You know, some nerd will tell you how awesome it’s going to be in 2028 when those guys come up. That’s that’s the type of grade I don’t want to do and I have no interest in doing here on this show. So, let’s grade them on a curve, Jim. Let’s grade them on the curve they created trying to be be better team in 2026. That’s what I that’s what I heard, Gary. I mean, bro, it Let’s go through every trade and let’s talk about all the wonderful ways that they help 2026 be better, right? That’s that’s exactly what the general manager said they were going to do. It’s what the owner said they wanted to do. It’s what the players, including Paul Skins just last week, said they wanted to do. Let’s Let’s see what they did. I’m sure it’s great when we really start digging into it, right? Well, I mean, if you make those kind of statements, I would assume that it would add up to be something very close to that. Would you? Wouldn’t you think so? I would because I mean there’s no way you would make a bunch of weird trades and stuff when you’re already kind of on a weird hot seat and expect the public that was already at Riot’s door to just go ahead and be cool hanging out until the off season to see the second chapter of your immaculate plan. Right. Yeah, you’re bringing up a good point which before we jump into the actual moves, which was he was aware that he did have an off season or that somebody was going to have an off season. Correct. Like it didn’t You didn’t have to do it today if he didn’t want to. I would hope so. I would hope so. Right. It’s Look, I see an F minus. Listen, that would have been a really short show. Is that what you’d like? Well, thanks everybody for tuning in. Uh, Peter Peter summed it up pretty well, so maybe maybe we just let him do it. Let’s start at the beginning though, okay? Like first of all, we talked about the Adam Frasier deal, but maybe it’s worth retouching because lo and behold, when I really go through the returns that we got, I didn’t expect Cam Deainy to be my favorite return that we got in the entire vast sea of the package, which is the only one I see maybe helping in 2026, right? And that trade now seems like it was 14 months ago. like like it has not been clearly been hardly any time. And you’re right, when that maybe ends up being the guy. Oh boy. Oh boy. Very frustrated with that move. Okay. Because I didn’t expect it to be my favorite of the entire trade deadline. I thought there’d be something that was more exciting in there. But looking back on it, I’m like, “Okay, at least there’s that.” But then before we even get into the deals they did make, let’s get into the ones they didn’t make. Yeah, they don’t trade IKF. Maybe they’re keeping him to play third base. Maybe they’re keeping him to play shortstop. Either way, now we don’t get to see these young kids that we’re kind of hoping like Deainy. I mean, he’ll be 30 at spring training, you know what I mean? Like, but but a young 30, Gary. A spry. A young 30 a spry 30. You’re right. But what are we doing here? Because like at least you could clear out scrapple, right? That was the biggest like, okay, so as you know, I um I I was here monitoring the the deadline till like three o’clock and then I had to go. I had uh baseball stuff to take care of and practices and all this. But that was something that shocked me just as much is whenever I saw I don’t you know the trades are one thing but that they still had Keany and they still had IKF and they still had Fam. Um who else am I forgetting? There’s somebody else that I thought I mean like you know Santana is still here which is fine. Yeah. which obviously you know that one you could you could I was just shocked that none of those guys had been moved. I was too. I mean cuz the end of the day, man, I don’t have a problem with anyone that was moved. I have a problem with the returns that they got for them. You know what I mean? But I I don’t have a problem with anyone that was moved. That was fine with me. I I keeping these others though, like I don’t understand keeping Andrew Heeny here. I really don’t. If it’s true what they said about Bailey Falter when we get into that trade, I saw Noah House reported that the Pirates were unwilling to or not looking forward to tendering Bailey Falter because they didn’t want to take him to ARB one. Yeah, I’d like to know a little bit more about where that came from or if that’s true. Yeah. I mean, dude, we’re talking like he would have been cheaper than Heene. You can’t tell me anybody who watched this team all year long thinks he’s not better than Heene. That I mean, we’ll talk about the trade individually, but like that in and of itself is a scandal if that’s true. Yeah. No, that that’s one where, you know, everybody talks about baseball needs to step in on the Pirates, which, you know, is is I get why people say it, but it’s it’s not going to happen. But when you hear those types of things, right, that makes you think like, oh my god, someone does need to step in because you can’t just toss Bailey Falter off to the side just because you don’t feel like paying him. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So, let’s let’s regroup. All right, let’s start with the with the first real trade. Cabrian Hayes. Now, before we get into it, maybe you and I should lay down a little base for why we can’t be hypocrites here. Not even a month or a half ago or so, we did a show about like how easily we thought he could just be replaced with somebody like Triolo for what we were getting out of him offensively. So, I’m not going to backtrack here and pretend like we also advised in the off season, both of us, if you got a healthy season from him, get out from under it while you can. Right. 100%. What do you think of the return? I’m This is the one I have probably the least problem with. I think that get out while he’s healthy. I don’t think he’ll be healthy all the time moving forward and just because of what we said earlier with yes I know people have their issues with Triolo but I just thought it was too much of a luxury to keep him for just providing something on the defensive end. So for me on this one, I don’t have that big of a deal uh make that big of an issue with it. And the fact that the money is there, but then they have to use it, right? Like then you need to reinvest it, which then becomes the next question, which is will they ever really do that? And well, they got Taylor Rogers for him and they flipped Taylor Rogers for which we call I called right away. I knew they were going to do that. They flipped him for this Ivan Breathau outfielder uh double A guy certainly doesn’t help with 2026. So when we’re talking about grading them on a curve for this Cabrian Hayes deal with Sammy Stfura is their I guess he’s our seventh ranked prospect now. He’s a shortstop. Doesn’t look like a real power threat type guy to me yet. really not doing too well in the miners either. Low a long far away. So, grading on our curve. Did they make the team better in 2026 by making this deal of this guy that you and I were totally cool with having traded? Well, not by not by the return. Now, if they use if they use that money, maybe depending on how they would use it. Um, but no, on its face, no, because we were not even to that point where any of that money would be spent or will be spent. And everything that you just suggested there, they’re all great points. They’re all things that yes, you would want them to do after these trades and everything, but kind of like I opened with Jim, how do you how do you make these moves like this and then expect us to just wait until the off season to see act two? You know, I mean, because all of that wishful thinking stuff, that’s not going to carry into this off season. No, last one was contentious. This one will be worse. We need to take a quick break and come back because we do. Yeah, it then we’ll start hammering these in detail. At DK Pittsburgh Sports, we take pride in coverage that connects our city’s fans to their favorite teams. Now that connection’s stronger than ever. Introducing our all-new state-of-the-art app. Find expert inside reporting and original podcasts. Check live box scores. Track the latest stats. Cat it up with our community of thousands of fans all in one place. The new app from DK Pittsburgh Sports coverage that connects. [Music] All right, welcome back to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. Jim, good golly, that was the way to start with Gabrian Hayes there. I I don’t think we can give that a mark of a pass or fail grade scenario of did it make the team better in 2026. Nope. Because all we can say is it made room for a prospect to come up and take that spot. And I guess my question there would be if that’s your vision, why would you hold on to somebody like Isaiah Connor Falefa to make sure that doesn’t happen? I I don’t know. I I I don’t understand it other than the fact that would they want I do they want IKF and the fans of the world back next year? I are you are you now seeing Tommy Fam is so indispensable that you have to have him back because of these last two months? I got nothing there except for he does have a great relationship with O’Neal Cruz and has seemed to have a a positive effect on him in the outfield. That’s all I got. Yeah. you know, the IKF thing really, really confuses me because, you know, he does some nice things for a ball club, but again, at the same time, um, he’s much more suited to be on a team where his versatility is is is where his his, you know, his worth is. And we want to use him as the starting shortstop or maybe a starting third baseman. And I’d rather just see the guy they just got for Frraasier. You know what I mean? So that’s what I’m thinking. Yeah. I It feels to me like if the goal is to try to get better in 2026, well, I need auditions to be happening right now. You know, I need to be seeing some of this young talent get a shot up here. Start getting my eyes on it. Understand what it is. Get the the training wheels kicked off. Bubba Chandler. things that they’ve done here. I’m not even sure that they’ve left room for that. I think Johan Ovido probably slips into the one open spot they created. All right, so we’re 0 for one on our or no, we’re one in one because we we’re giving them 2026 with Cam Deainy maybe, right? Or at least half a point towards it. I I think for that one I I will I will grade it um as a slight win for now. But if you’re not going to you if you’re not going to use the guy then forget about it. That’s an entirely different subject, sir. All right. So sneaky probably smartest best deal and the one that makes the most sense really just on its surface. Caleb Ferguson for Jeter Martinez. It’s a a rental relief pitcher for a young pitching prospect. I have no issue with this whatsoever. I don’t even care that it has nothing to do with 2026 really because I just didn’t think you’d get that for a rental reliever anyway. No, I don’t. This is This ranks way down on the list of concerns from what’s happened in the last 24 hours. That said, it certainly doesn’t add to the positive column for helping in 2026 either. No. Nope. Yep. Uh then we got David Bednar. This is the most controversial one I would say. Well, maybe not. Maybe not. He might have gonna say might have pulled that out of the fire with Bailey Falter. Well, this David Bednar move. Okay. Raphael Flores, Ed Glean Perez, and Brian Sanchez. Okay. Raphael Flores, I think, has a decent chance to be a major league hitter. I don’t think he has a decent chance to be a major league hitter real early into 2026. I think that’s at some point during 2026. And he’s a little bit old for that to be the case, right? But that’s how I feel. Okay. So, I like it. I also don’t think he’s going to stick at catcher sadly. So, I think you’ve basically got a a promising DH and I do mean promising DH. He’s got some power. I don’t think that helps in 2026, Jim. Not much. No, I I I look at this one like again, it seemed to be a little bit going for the quantity over the quality with the three, which bothers me. I would have liked to have seen an outfielder be maybe the main piece of this deal. Um, that would have made me feel a little bit better. But when you’re talking when you’re already talking about DH and I know why you’re doing it because it’s it’s valid DH catcher maybe first base. That’s that’s not that’s not what I would want to see ideally with this move. Yeah, you’d like at least a little bit of outfield capability there because I just don’t think he’s more than a DH. I really don’t. Uh his first base, they seem to be something they don’t necessarily prefer to do with him. Catching he’s young yet. Henry’s stuck to in the minors and I think he’s a great defensive catcher now. So, it can be done, but so far not great. The other catcher they got, he’s way far away. His defensive metrics are great, but he’s also the size of Joseé Altuve. Yeah. And I don’t care what any scout says, his power profiles, too. That’s a water bug that’s got to put every ounce of everything he’s got into a ball to get it over the wall. And and it and it’s years and years away, if it ever even happens. Exactly. And the other guy, same the other guy, same thing. So, this one’s tough to swallow, I think. Gary, I would I would have preferred in this scenario with Bedar either don’t trade him. I would have taken pitching back if I could if if it was a better return. I I didn’t think the Yankees were a good setup for a Benedar deal. I just didn’t like anything that was in the wheelhouse of what you might have been able to get for him. And I I mean I was expectedly underwhelmed by it. I I think that’s probably the best way to put it, Jim. I just at the end of the day I I guess it’s an okay trade in and of itself just in a vacuum. Like I the talent’s probably fair. It’s probably a fair talent exchange. I would say it’s taking into account how bad he was in 2024 and the beginning of this year. I’m sure, you know, and that he’s going to be pretty expensive to keep, but I I think he probably could have done better than this or you’re right, shouldn’t have done it, right? If this is the best you could get, if this is the best offer that was on the table, which we have to assume it was, would you have pulled the trigger on it? No. I I I think I think you And I think that’s what’s disappointing here is like like you’re saying, I think if you look in totality, it’s probably a lukewarm lukewarm acceptance of the talent that got that got swapped, right? They were supposed to be in the driver’s seat with with this scenario, right? The market for closers was pretty sweet. That’s what I’m saying. I mean, there were there were people getting some pretty good deals. I’m not saying Bednar is Mason Miller, but he should have done better than that really. Right. And I think that’s the biggest thing like people have a problem with is if this was supposed to be a situation where it was, you know, a sellers market for a closer and you’re supposed to be in the driver’s seat, you’re looking for more than this return. Nobody’s saying it had to be, and I’ll throw this name out there because it’s been all over the place, and I don’t even necessarily like the guy. No one’s saying it’s Spencer Jones that you’ve got to get for David Bedar. You just want to feel a little bit better about it if you’re supposedly in the in the prime position of being able to deal him. I I would say like I’d rather have one better prospect than three. Correct. And it feels to me like that should have been kind of the negotiating tactic. If you were going to spread it out to the value of three prospects, h let’s creep those two back together. Let’s ram this all into one. Give me something that’s either there or close. Something you don’t need. You gave me basically Ben Rice that I got to work for. Can you just give me Ben Rice? Exactly. You know what I mean? Focus on one thing that actually was supposed to be the goal, which was getting better for next year. And that’s the kind of guy that you should be targeting. Or don’t get me wrong, Ben Rice, I mean that he he’s a catcher and a first baseman. He doesn’t do either of them very well. He’s really a DH. That’s what you’d be getting. A left-handed DH and a and a pretty good one. A powerful one. Hits some home runs and everything on this team. Probably a pretty damn good DH, right? But that’s what you needed to go for because what they did is they bought one that they’ve got to finish getting to the finish line and instead of hitting the ground running, they’ve got to train him to be that. That could be 27, 28 by the time you get to a point where that kid’s actually hitting home runs and contributing regularly in a lineup. Sorry, that’s not 2026. He might step his foot on the field in 2026 up here. You know, he might get a half a season up here, but you know, and and and you wonder why people question what they do when there’s money involved. Because if you look at things like the Bednar situation, were they always just going to take the best that they could get no matter what? Cuz why wouldn’t you what was the market for Santana? You know, why why not? Santana’s going to be cheaper next year than David Bednar will be. For one thing, I I think we’d be lying to ourselves and everyone else if we didn’t add that into the the thinking as to why David instead of, you know, Santana as far as getting moved. Right. Right. If they were just going to make sure they held on to one, it felt to me in a way, and we still have another trade to get to, but this whole deadline felt very one leg in and one leg out. I’m not I’m squeamish about everything. I don’t want to make the team right now so bad that it looks like the the season just falls off a cliff and Don Kelly looks like he’s worthless manager, too. And now we we look like we should just pour kerosene on everything. Plus, maybe they they won’t keep me if the record goes below this certain level. And if that’s still hanging out there, my god, mind blown. which is why this was such a bad idea to begin with, right, with Sharon is how do you how do you keep an eye on the immediate future when you can’t afford to lose a 100 games this year, bro? It’s so brutal. It’s so brutal. Like, what a mess they’ve created. Let’s let’s just get the last trade on the table here. And Bailey Falter, this was a surprise to me. Bailey Falter for Evan Cisk. He’s This isn’t a prospect. This guy’s 29 years old and just debuted this year. Like he’s a relief pitcher. I’m sure he’s a perfectly fine relief pitcher. I think we just scored a run off of him, but but whatever. I’m sure you can still be a good pitcher and give up a run to the Pirates. And then this this Kalin Moss first base prospect, low levels. I I actually think that kid’s kind of an interesting prospect, but lower levels, man. like that certainly doesn’t help in 2026. I can honestly say Cisk might, you know, um it’s a decent reliever maybe, but he’s young. A lot of control of the guy, but Bailey Falter, man, like to me that’s like that’s that’s a waste of resources. That’s like striking oil in your backyard and selling gas for 20 cents for until it runs out. This one made me ill when I saw it. Um I just the fact that they got Falter for Castro and then put the time and the resources in that they did to Bailey Falter and actually got what ended up being a pretty darn good back of the rotation lefty out of it. And then to just dump him like that all for the all for the what appears to be that they’re not interesting in tendering him after this and it’s like is there any other log like even if that didn’t come out the report from Noah this is the question of all questions right here okay how can you be looking to the future when falter is considered by the front office as a non-tender candidate Long Beards nails it right there. That’s the report from Noah you were referencing. Now Jim, I interrupted you. Go. No, I just I mean that’s that’s exactly it. What what that comment just said, which is and this is why people just can’t take them seriously and don’t believe anything that they say because you you you cannot go in next season taking a Bailey Falter. I don’t care how much pitching you think you have. taking a Bailey Falter out of the pitcher and basically trading him. This is the return they should have got for Heene just just to get rid of, you know, get him off the books, get something for him. He hasn’t pitched all that. Well, this was not a return for Bailey Falter. No, this was not. And and it wasn’t Bailey Falter’s someone I really I valued, man. I don’t know. Am I in my Am I in the minority? I really liked watching him pitch. I thought I thought he was a really really good member of this rotation. I did. I looked forward to him pitching actually. I agree. I I’ve really come to appreciate Bailey Falter’s game. I really a controllable lefty. Like you just dump like trash. Mhm. Like, bro, like I don’t often get into the the whole calling from people’s head things. I really don’t. That one to me, that Bailey Falter deal, that’s the most nonsensical thing I’ve seen. That was that makes no sense whatsoever for next year, the next two years, any year that you would do that with this this situation. I I I’d go so far as to say that other GMs when they saw what the Royals gave for Bailey Falter that there were some GMs that were probably sick that they didn’t know that because they would have given more for Bailey Falter had they just known that the Pirates were going to give him away. I can’t for the life of me understand the thinking. I can’t I just I just can’t like that. A controllable lefty that you hit on a on a trade for nothing. Yes. That’s the shame of it. And and you exploited something he does that nobody else in the whole league saw. He was your chip to like my god look what we found on the cheap. This can work. That’s Bailey Falter. He is literally your He burned your Bible tonight, Ben Cherington. Right? Like this is the shining example of See, we do know what we’re doing. We got something for Ralpho Castro, who no one has heard from since. And we pulled stat out of our ass from our analytics department that no one cares about, right? And this is why we’re doing what we’re doing. like, you know, it should be the poster child for for for what for what they claim they can do. I mean, this is a good point here because the Wild Things would have given more in a trade. Well, listen, technically they gave us Isaac Matson for nothing. So, this is true. This is true. But uh yeah, Jim, as a whole, bro, this is not good. This was not good. This didn’t have this doesn’t inspire anybody with any kind of uh vision for what’s going forward here. I I look at the roster pieces and I feel like I’m playing Scrabble with 11 Q’s and, you know, no use on the board. Yep. What are we trying to do here? like what does this look like post deadline? Is that a good place to take a break or should we maybe come back and do call your shot before we get completely out of trade mode? Well, I was just going to like um yeah, we can we can get go take a break. I was just going to say that, you know, if you there is money that’s been cleared here and there’s more that can be cleared. And if you look at the numbers, you’re talking like anywhere from 20 to $40 million that they could have saved by next year by doing what they’re doing and having and not and not having a couple other guys back on the roster. If if if people could be convinced that they would actually reinvest that and that was the main goal of this off season was just to get the money freed up. At least people could understand that. But no one believes that they will do that with that money. I can’t imagine that a controllable lefty that I could have taken arbitration and maybe spent three and a half four million on in Bailey Falter falls under the category of cost cutting and Jim that’s what I can’t get past because that this was not a guy that was going to hit your books next year and you were going to wonder where the money was coming from and you still weren’t tied to him for any longer than that. If you wanted to cut him loose, you could cut him loose. Nobody would have said a word to you after another year. You know what I mean? Like, but you have him under arbitration. If he gets beat out in spring training even, and you change your mind, okay, make a trade then. You certainly could have swung something just as shitty, but at the in the middle of spring training as what you just did now. Like th this was the wrong way to handle this. This was the wrong direction to go the wrong way to try to make m make space for prospects too. Sure. And the the the thing that creeps into my mind is are they this nervous about this impending 2027 situation that they are using that as a factor in making sure that they’re still going to be okay if there is not a season in 2027. If they’re going to operate like that, then here’s the thing. Bob Nutting better be a doomsday prepper as it comes to this uh this this CBA negotiation. He better build a freaking bunker. He better stock it up and he better hunker down and prepare to be a no vote until the very end and he gets what he’s supposed to get. Because if he doesn’t and he does stuff like this, all I’m gonna do is look at the next CBA negotiation date and know that that’s the next time that we’re going to sell off and suck again and do stupid things and Right. This made no sense at all. Right. And I’m not suggesting that’s part of it, but when I can’t make sense of things, well, you aren’t. You aren’t, but lots of people are and not stupid people. Right. And and when things when when things smell like a fish and look like a fish and swim like a fish, sometimes they’re a fish, right? You know, and this stunk to high hell. Yeah. I don’t think it could have I don’t You know what’s the meme? Our expectations were low, but holy, you know, I think that’s where everybody’s at. Everybody was nervous about this, thinking it might not be great, and somehow it’s worse than that. I agree, man. Let’s take that quick break, come back and do Call Your Shot, and then let’s see if we can’t wrap up the show with something co cohesive, huh? Let’s inspire the masses that things are going to be okay. That’s what we’re going to do. Oh, boy. I don’t know about that one. At DK Pittsburgh Sports, we take pride in coverage that connects our city’s fans to their favorite teams. Now, that connection’s stronger than ever. Introducing our all-new state-of-the-art app. Find expert inside reporting and original podcasts. Check live box scores, track the latest stats, chat it up with our community of thousands of fans, all in one place. The new app from DK Pittsburgh Sports. Coverage that connects. [Music] All right, welcome back to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. It’s call your shot time and Taylor is too busy tonight at a conference to do it. So, I’m going to read it myself and we’ll do our old intro. [Applause] Hey, Call Your Shot is brought to you by our friends at Shopens. Please do visit them at shopins.com. Check out everything they got over there. really cool custom shirts. Um, I’m sure he’s going to do some awesome things from this trade deadline. He was already brainstorming some stuff to me today. So, be on the lookout for something new and cool coming up. And, uh, tonight’s question comes from Chris Risinger. You think this confirms the fears of everyone who said, “Don’t do anything while Cherington is here. team would be better off with Cherington not having done anything and letting the new GM make moves in the off season. Chris Readinger Risinger, that’s a really good question. I think that’s the next logical place for us to take this too, Jim. Really? I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer that 100%. I think I think he kind of half did some some stuff that should have waited for the off seasonason and he kind of half did some stuff that I’m fine with him doing right now. Like I’m fine with Adam Frasier. I’m fine with even the Kabrian Hayes for real, right? I’m fine with um actually I I still kind of feel fortunate to have gotten out of it. Like I I was thinking about what he does for the Reds even and I was thinking to myself like could he get more power there because of that ballpark? Maybe a little, right? How many home runs do you feel he’s been robbed of by this ballpark for? Yeah. He’s not the guy that comes to mind when you think about Right. his his his powers not playing well at PNC. Right. Right. I’m I I just feel like, okay, you could make that excuse if you’re a guy who hits like 10 and most of them are like 405 somewhere, you know? I I get it. And maybe then that ballpark would really help you. Maybe it will. But the only thing real benefit I can think of for the Reds is that they can move Spencer Steer, I guess, or whoever Marte Marte can go out to the outfield. And maybe this helps Ellie defensively, you know, gives him a little bit less range to cover. Sure. Because it it and just to be totally honest, I don’t think a lot of Reds fans were all that thrilled. You know, I don’t think that they thought that it was an odd fit for them. If I was a Reds fan, knowing what we know about Krian Hayes, I don’t think I would have wanted to make that move uh or wanted my team to do that. If he goes there and plays better and hits, good for Kabrian Hayes. I I feel actually bad that it worked out the way it did for him with his with his back. I do. Yeah, me too. I I thought he had promise, man. It really did. And I mean, I I’ve heard things slipping out now like, you know, he wanted out and maybe he wasn’t so happy in the room and things like that. But that stuff always comes out after a while. Um, and you kind of suspect that it’s happening, but I think it’s slipping out now. I mean, Cabrian’s a he was a complicated character. The very best defender maybe in the league at any position possibly. Yeah. And the very worst hitter, the very worst third base hitter period in the game, statistically speaking. So and and and okay, so let’s go back to the question before we get too sidetracked. I want to answer I just keep asking the question. Yeah, I think this was every I think this was everybody’s concern that this this is be this would be the disaster would be because Sherington was making the calls. But my question still is are we sure he’s gone? I maybe he’s not gone. Would anything shock you? He did not make moves that would act like somebody trying to lay track for what he’s about to do, you know. So, either he’s just doing the bidding of an owner and shedding money or he uh and if that’s the case, he should be fired because he didn’t do that well. He had a lot of rentals on the table he could have gotten rid of, right? So, if the initiative was, hey, just shed money, well, they had a lot of money they could have shed still and a lot of prospects that the fans actually might have been more excited to see. So, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. If that was the case, that makes you feel like he just has no timeline whatsoever except for it’s time to trade this guy. I want to get I want to get some more prospects in. And yeah, no particular urgency about where they play or how close they are or anything, right? You know, I mean, if you’re a betting person, would you ever bet that you’re sure Ben Sharington’s gone at the end of the year? Common sense would and logic would say you’re right. But that doesn’t apply here. It It doesn’t. It hasn’t. I’m just saying he might not be gone. Are we do and are Pirate fans gonna have to come to terms with that? Maybe. What if that happens though, Jim? Like, think about it. Like, to me, this this deadline, some of the returns for some of these players just to me, it’s disqualifying. Really disqualifying. Now, I’d like to hear what their plan really is. You know, I would think that after this deadline, they owe a press availability where they they tell you their plan because I I can’t imagine somebody’s not going to press them directly on how this makes them better in 2026 like we’re trying to talk about on this episode. And when they do, what will their answer be? It’s going to have to point to his plan for next year. And then the immediate question is going to be, are you gonna be here to do it? I would I would flat out ask that at this point. I’m saying that’s where we are, though. And that’s where I think the media is going to have to be. And I don’t mean it in a disrespectful way. I mean like that’s what they’re going to have to say to them. And at some point Bob’s going to have to answer that. Then I bet he’ll answer it before we get to the end of the season. I bet we’ll know. Well, Sherington normally does speak after the trade deadline, right? Um I Yeah, I would think every GM does. Yeah, I think to my recollection that’s a that’s a that happens and that’s when I envision this taking place. And I it just feels to me like those are can’t miss questions that they have to happen. Somebody should absolutely ask them. they will be asked in some form or fashion. And I’m interested to hear the answers. And I’m interested to hear what was the conversation like with Bob about trading Bednar for that kind of a package that’s not going to impact the team right away and make it better. How did you get him to okay on that? You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I I I like you talked him into it. Talk me into it. How did you talk him into it? I want to hear how you talked him into it. Yeah. Like what changed from last year when supposedly Bob shut shut that down, right? Moving Bednar, right? To that this time it was okay. And for that return, right? So hey, you know, these are these are the questions that need asked. I hope they’re asked because yeah, you might get a word salad BS out of it, but I want to hear what it is. Well, what’s the other thing here? Like the other thing that could happen or the other thing that could be happening is Nutting really does want to shed payroll and he didn’t want to instantaneously tarnish his new GM with it. So, he told this dude to do this crap right now and then he’ll fire him and blame him for doing what he told him to do and then hire Snow White as the new GM to come in and and fix Yeah. Does that sound like a scenario that might actually play out? I mean, it’s a nice clean way for them to do it. Just let him I’ve been watching a lot of Game of Thrones lately. It sounds very very um very Game of Thrones or Succession even. This is some Succession stuff here. Um well, you could certainly do that. Just let the stoogge take care of it all and then toss him out the door and blame it on him. All right, look, I got one endorsement at least. That scenario sounds legit. Thank you so much. It really doesn’t sound that outrageous. It just seems to me like this was very much a it didn’t make any sense if it was just from a point of trying to make the team better immediately. There were some things I think they could have just done better by holding on to and excusing. Like Bedar, you’d have been better holding on to him if you’re trying to make the case that you’re trying to be better in 2026 based on what you got back. If he returned somebody that can play the outfield and hit 15 home runs, I and I’m putting the the bar pretty low, right? But if he returns somebody that can play the outfield and hit 15 home runs, I think we’re like, “Okay, I get it. That’s for 2026, right? We understand that.” Sure. Everybody would say, “Okay, well, I I I can still not super sexy, but we’ll take mildly sexy at this point, especially offensively.” You know, I’m so glad that on this show, Jim, we’ve never tried to sell people that this was going to work. Never once have we tried to sell that it was gonna work. I think we’ve really tried to be honest the whole way through. And I’m I’m speaking like it’s an ending because in one way or another I think it kind of is an ending. It’s either the end of Ben Sharington or it’s the end of anyone having any faith that this team knows what they’re doing at all. Well, in any way, right? And then whenever you see some of the pieces start to move like the gays and the bedars that have been here, it’s the beginning of the end one way or the other depending on how you look at it. Well, let’s talk about that actually. That’s the an interesting angle on this whole deadline. Do you have any kind of thoughts about Gabrian Hayes beyond just the analytical that we’ve already covered? We talked so long ago about being okay with it and actually pushed for it that I think you and I we already handled all the therapy we needed about moving on from from Kabrian Hayes. But he was supposed to be the stake in the ground. Remember? Sure. I remember even Deion Kvachevik doing his daily podcast at uh back in 2020 said that this team’s window would be open for exactly as long as Cabrian Hayes was here for you know and when you look at when that statement was made Gary I don’t even know that it was we made it what two and a half years and he’s gone. Yeah. Like that’s how fast this happened. Yeah. From stake in the ground to what a sevenyear was it a seven-year deal, right? To two and a half years later, he’s gone. Um, and it’s the one thing I try not to criticize the Pirates about because I think at the time it seemed like a pretty smart move and it just in typical Pirates fashion did not work out. No. And you couldn’t carry that offense. And can we talked about like trying to improve the team in 2026 too and and we started walking around the diamond talking about how blocked up we had it everywhere. You know, like you had you had Horwitz at first base. That’s going to happen. That’s still going to happen. No matter what all this stuff they traded for, that’s still going to happen. That’s still the starter. Gonzalez is going to start, right? For sure. Henry Davis is probably going to start. Ryan Reynolds is going to start. Ono Cruz is going to start. And you start filling the diamond up. And you’re and you’re going all of a sudden, well, man, as bad as they are, I’m only talking about filling two positions. I need a left fielder and a shorts stop. Right. Right. Maybe they wanted to create another hole because like with Brian Kabrian Hayes because that you can’t have that be the worst offensive position in baseball. Maybe that’s just unacceptable if you’re trying to improve your offense, right? Maybe that had to be done and dealt with and out of the way. Yeah. I mean, I think this is the one where you look at it is it was at the time the right thing to do. it did not work out and they tried as long as they could to make it work and then when they saw an opportunity to get out from under it they did it and I don’t have a problem with that as as it as it stands with that one particular story start to finish. Yeah, I I would agree. I mean I will miss watching him play defense though. I mean he was damn good. Best one I think I’ve ever seen. And I mean I think better than Aronado at his peak. I think Brian Hayes is better. Certainly rivals him. I mean like that’s that’s a safe, you know, that’s a safe comparison for me. Um and yeah, you know, I I think that’s the thing with with Hayes is ideally people wanted it to work. Um they’re fortunate with Bedar that they got it back to where it was. Um and he was able to leave on such a high note. So, I I’m I’m not thrilled with the return, but I’m glad that that was really ugly. And David Benedar, hey, man, go win something. That’s all I can say. Like, I hope he does well. I hope he does well. Yeah, I hope so, too. I think he deserves it for sure. But what are you going to do, man? Those two are the only ones that I think would really bother you. Bailey bothers me. I really like Bailey, man. That that one that’s going to that’s one that you’re going to put in the same category of some of the old the one Nasio releasing him to uh what save 600,000 because they didn’t want to pay him Ramirez um moving him because that was a financial thing. Uh the Bailey Falter thing kind of reeks of of of those types of situations to me and that that one really makes me uh sick. I kind of can’t wait to get them these ones explained. You know, I Bailey Falter is not the type of guy that is in a place in his career where he could be demanding a trade. You know what I mean? like the this isn’t like he stormed into the office and said, “Get me the hell off this island.” Right? He’s still in he’s he’s like a lot of ironically he’s like a lot of these baseball players we talk about, man. He’s still trying to just make sure he’s got his footing and can get years in at this point. That’s it. It just floores me because I mean Jim right now for real. Okay, you got Andrew Heene the rest of this year, but next year are they not going to be right back on the market looking for a cheap lefty to That’s the funny part. I mean, like I feel like they’re going to go back into the free agent board and look for exactly what they just traded and pay three times as much for it. If only there’s a someone like a Bailey Falter out there that they could get in here. God damn, if we only had a Bailey Falter to replace Bailey Falter, it’s going to be crazy, right? I mean like you can’t be thinking like Andrew Heene is gonna come back for his 35th year. You or you know you I don’t want I don’t want him as a 35 year old. I I Gary when I had when I had heard Falter I wasn’t near my phone but I had heard at the ball field that Falter was moved. Yeah. I immediately thought oh wow that’s a really smart trade that someone picked him up and I think we probably got something decent back for him. maybe at the single or double A level, but like so I was dumbfounded when I saw what it was. Not a great deadline, Jim. I wish that I had some uplifting words for everybody, but I was dumbfounded by a lot of it. And I I’m sure we’ll process it and move forward. We’re going to get a brand new roster tomorrow, right? And it’s going to be weird seeing Brian Hayes in a Red’s uniform here in a couple weeks. I think they’re coming to town for a four game set. So, that should be This is true. They are. And it’s going to be interesting, Gary, to see how teams look and react and um after trade deadlines, right, when when when there’s been movement. Um, this team has been so up and down already that I’m just curious to see what they look like after Hayes is gone, Falter’s gone. Um, and what that looks like performance-wise. Yeah, it’s going to be funny because I bet it’s not that much different. I I wonder Yeah, I wonder how I wonder how like the Falter thing goes over in the clubhouse. That would be the one. Like I think everyone can kind of understand the Hayes thing. I wonder how something like Bailey Falter goes over in the clubhouse. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. I I I’m curious there and there’s a ton of questions that need answered. I kind of can’t wait until there’s a press conference where they really kind of have to answer something. I expect double talk. I know we’ll get double talk, but I actually think they’ve pushed some buttons this time. I think they’re going to get some push back from some people on on some things and and and they put some pretty firm statements out about their intentions about 2026. And I just really think that it’s time to find out what exactly they were thinking there. And I see Hayes is 0 and3. I’m not going to gloat about it, but I’m I’m not going to sit here and tell you that I didn’t expect it. So, yeah. Yeah, I I I think uh you know, we know Ben Sherington’s the master of the word salad. He’s really gonna have to word salad this one. I don’t know how he convinced the the Reds to take Hayes. I don’t I I didn’t I didn’t even think that was a problem for them. It doesn’t make any sense on their end either for me is what I’m trying to get at. Right. I don’t understand that trade. I thought I thought I’m okay with it, but I just don’t understand why the Reds wanted him. I actually thought that Hayes was probably not going to get moved because it just didn’t make enough sense for for any teams and and shows what I know because he’s the really the first one off the board. I really thought that they were going to kind of be stuck with him. So, I mean, we’ve had, man, we had a whole two episodes, I think, we dedicated to that pre-season and in season. So, again, I don’t want to be a hypocrite about it now, and I’m sure you probably can nitpick what they got back for him and everything, but again, this was a guy that I expected they were going to have to maybe pay to get off of their roster. Correct. So, it was gonna come down to Yeah. And that sounds terrible because he is a terrific fielder. Again, it’s such a dichotomy with with Krian Hayes. If I had eight guys that could hit the ball like murderers row and just have him at third base doing nothing to being an awesome third baseman, I think yeah, I’d love to have it, but man, that’s not the team Cincinnati has either. No, not at all. So, I’m confused by it, bro. Anyways, I wish him well. I wish all of them well. David Bednar, Bailey Falter, everybody. Caleb Ferguson did a hell of a job here this year, honestly. Yeah. Thought he was great. Ferguson, I I liked Ferguson. I thought he was a pretty decent um professional, too. Adam Frasier really turned things around there and kind of carried the offense as as as high as he possibly could for a couple weeks there. You know, that’s the funny part about a lot of the guys we’re talking about. everyone, us included, Adam Frasier ended up being something you could get something for. Tommy Fam ended up being somebody that you should have got something for or just been able to move on from him. Uh Bailey Falter, he’s been somebody that actually had some worth. They didn’t get anything for him, but he had worth. How many of these guys have we like buried? And the ironic part about it is is they actually did come back and have at least a little bit of value. I think what I can’t believe the most is that Tommy Fam didn’t get traded. The he’s just been the hottest hitter in baseball almost for the last month. I can’t believe nobody wanted that even if it was a complete swing and miss. I agree. I thought for sure somebody was Everybody is looking for a little bit of offense. And if you could get it for almost nothing, I’m shocked that he’s not moved. I’m shocked. Anyways, Jim, did you feel do you feel any better? I mean, after talking it through, I I’m not sure I feel better, but I feel like I’ve vented a little bit. Well, I think that’s where I’m at, too. Like, I had a lot to digest coming back home getting ready for this podcast because I hadn’t been able to see a lot. And um it’s it it was just I needed to talk about it. I just You had to take all your pain in at once. Yes, I did. I Yeah. Yeah. See, and I’ve been on a I’ve been on a podcast marathon. So, I think after I get off this one, I’m going to go and record I think my seventh in the last two days about this trade deadline. And this one’s for the national show. So, God bless you, dude. cuz I just want to um I’m going to unplug for the rest of the evening, I think, cuz I I I unless Ben Sharington talks, that’s really all I’d want to see right now. I hear you, brother. Well, let’s go ahead and get out of here then on a disappointing trade deadline for the Pittsburgh Pirates. Let’s hope for better days. Maybe maybe uh it’ll be like a crappy 80s sitcom that they replace somebody with with a better character like in the mid middle of the story and it works better. Dude, I I’ll tell you what, nothing would surprise me with this team. Nothing would shock me. They could lose the next 10 in a row and get stomped in Colorado or they’ll keep playing decent baseball. None of it makes any sense to me. Yeah. All right, brother. Let’s head off to Ben. Let’s go, B. Yeah, buddy.

The deadline is over, and we’ve had all of a couple hours to digest it, that makes it the perfect time for Jim and Gary to sit down and talk it through, with all of you.

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