Chicago Bulls REFUSE to Tank, So What’s Their BEST Path Forward? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

Chicago Bulls REFUSE to Tank, So What’s Their BEST Path Forward? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

What up, Bulls Nation? We’ve got a live CSO Bulls coming up for you all right around the corner. On today’s show, hoops hype continues to roll out their top 26 rankings at each position for the upcoming NBA season. Small forwards, no Bulls made the list. Should some Bulls have made the list? Or what if Josh Giddy was listed at small forward instead of point guard? Plus, we all know and Joe Callie just wrote about it over the weekend. AK is refusing to tank. So now what? How do the Bulls get out of the middle without going to the bottom? We’ll try and figure it out next. [Music] [Applause] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] What’s going on, Bulls Nation? Welcome in to the CHO Bulls podcast coming to you live from our studios here in West Leaf, downtown Chicago. I’m PCB Bulls_p. That is Big Dave. Bam. BWL sports. Give me a second. Will the goalie perfectly quafted? Will go and hanging out while Katie is getting some muchdeserved time off the king of the control, Steven Nicholas. What up, Stephen? It’s good to be back, guys. Good to be back. Hey, we’re talking about for the whole hour. You happy to talk something other than Bears? Are you sick of the Bears yet? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m I’m sick of the Bears. All right. What? Two weeks from tonight, right? Monday Night Football week. Exactly. 14 days. Let’s go. Woo. And speaking of that, we just today rolled out our latest dieh hard promo that y’all should take advantage of if you haven’t become a diehard yet. Or you can also take advantage of this one if you already are a diehard. And shout out to you. We’re calling this one the CHO Dieard Tailgate tier. We just launched it. It’s brand new. This tier of Die Hard includes getting two free Bears tailgate tickets every year that you are a diehard, plus a free CHO shirt, plus of course all of the other full Die Hard access, the discounts when you shop at the merch store, the discounts to the other tailgates in addition to the two tickets you’re going to get when you sign up. Access to that Die Hard Discord and all that fun jazz, plus of course all the great writing and reporting done from our great crew, whether it’s Bears, GOAT, and his stuff covering the Bulls and the other teams across the HGO. Uh, so between the two tailgate tickets you get and the free shirt, that’s like a $175 value. And this signup offer we’re doing right now is $89.99 for your first year. Yeah, that’s a cool ass shirt, too, by the way. Yeah. Plus new merch dropped coinciding with this new Die Hard Pro we’re rolling out. Three new Bears tea designs. Look at them, man. Give it a look. Look at that stuff right there. Is that uh the city of Chicago, the Bears trampoline over there? Uh, yeah, sure is. I like that one. Yeah, I like that one. The one on the left I’m really feeling. I I really Chicago Land Football Club. Yeah, I’m digging that one, man. Yeah, I honestly like all three. No, all three are great. All three are really great, man. But you got your favorites, you know. You got your f and uh I I just mentioned it, but the cool news here, if you are already a diehard, you can still sign up to promote yourself to the tailgate tier to get that access to the two free tailgate tickets. And you get another free shirt. If you’re already a diehard, you got your your free shirt when you signed up. You get another free shirt if you upgrade to the tailgate tier. It’s a great deal. So just go to the die hard part of the site and we’re if you’re logged in as a die hard it’ll be like here’s what you are now here’s a tailgate tier offer sign up and it’ll prorrate for wherever you are in your die hard membership through the year. Incredible deal man like walk away with a bunch of awesome t-shirts and a bus bunch of awesome coverage that you get for this Bears team which they do an incredible job on man all the shows that they do. Shout out to Lance Briggs also and uh Jerry Zuma. But yeah man like this it’s just really cool because the Bears are a big thing here at CHGO. and the fact that they’re a big thing but actually do inc. But they really do go together here, man. And the Bears just do a great job and just make me excited as a Bears fan to sit and watch. Like I saw they had like 40 or 50,000 views on a preseason game. Oh yeah. I just learned yesterday Stephen you probably already knew this but um the Bears CO Bears show is number 65 on Apple Podcasts top sports podcast. Not just football podcasts, not like actual top podcasts. It’s crazy. Insane, bro. And and that is like extended duration of being ranked that high cuz like I saw uh you know uh Bernstein just launched his new podcast for whatever and it was like you know trending high. It’s like when a brand new podcast launches you see him like jump off the charts like that. But hey CS Bears has been around for three and a half years now. Yeah, man. Yeah. I I think at our peak back when Chartable was a thing I think we were top 25. Incredible. Yeah. sports podcast in the country. Incredible. Can you imagine if the Bears start 4 and0? Oh, I don’t know what that feels like. I can’t I literally cannot imagine that first since any of us have known what that feels like. Let’s start the first. We know how it feels in the preseason, but let’s start at the first. Let’s try the first one. When’s the last time the Bulls started 4 and0? Uh 2122. Was that right? They got Dear D Roza. Yep. Absolutely right. Right here. They started 4 and0. They sure did. And it was a big deal. Big old deal. Uh and here we are. Who’s ready for 39 and 43 again? It was uh but yeah, anyway, take advantage of that great new Die Hard Tailgate tier offer. Sign up now or promote yourself if you’re already a die hard to take advantage of those great perks. First THL Bears tailgate two weeks from tonight, week one, Bears Bikes. So freaking ready. Tailgates. Uh but in the meantime, we got hoops to talk about y’all. Uh we’ve gone through Hoops Hypes top 26 rankings for the positions uh coming in the 2526 season. We’ve done point guards. Josh Giddy came in at number 15. Okay. We did shooting guards where Kobe White, I believe, landed 12th. 12th? Really? 12th? He was top 15? Yes, sir. What? Shout out Kobe White. Shout out Kobe White. Oh, yeah. That happened while you were gone. Were you expecting lower? Yes. Really? I was. I’m a Bulls fan. I was expecting it to be I mean, 12th is Wow. 20 points per game score last season. Yeah, man. He bought It’s just It’s rare for me to see a Bulls player get that kind of love nationally. It really is, man. No, I’m excited. That is awesome. They got him as a top 15 shooting guard. They sure do. Yes, man. Yes. Congratulations, Alec Jacobe White. That’s And then you turn the page to small forwards. Arguably the most important position in today’s NBA. Oh. Uh cold water. So, uh, the Bulls, uh, small forwards who made the top 26 rankings by hoops hype goes as follows. That’s it. That’s That’s it. That’s all I just said. All of them. There are no bulls in hoop top 26. Small forward. The dogs heard you like uh cricket. Nobody. Baby Joey ain’t hear you. Oh, no. Definitely not. Uh, and look, some of this is arbitrary or or weird in the ways that like, okay, how do you define a small forward in today’s NBA? You know, I was looking at a few different sites, basketball reference, spot rack, the team’s actual own websites, and how they define their players by position. The league is shifting more and more to quote unquote positionless basketball, but small forwards are a thing that still exist and still have those labels next to their name. any of the names that you could throw at small forward and make stick on this current Bulls roster that make sense? Herder, Isaac Aoro, guys that we were talking about who who is that fifth and final starter coming into the season. You could also throw Manis Puzzelis into that category. You could throw Julian Phillips into that category. Some Bulls fans have wanted from the jump for Patrick Williams to be labeled as a small forward, not a power forward. And then the weird one is Giddy who like he’s got the size of a forward. Yeah. He just plays with the ball in his hands a lot. Yeah. I I always had him as a point guard. I know Will, you talked about it having him as a small forward, but I I’ve always seen him just as a point guard. Uh everything about his game to me, he says I’m a point guard. how he plays like might it might be in a more in a lesser way of Russell Westbrook kind of style like being a guy you know who is going to dominate the ball who is going to get his points but is going to get everyone involved in his own kind of way but also get be aggressive you know on rebounding and things of that nature but for me it’s still a point guard kind of play when you have him out there because I don’t see it where you put let’s say a Iodumu or even a Trey Jones I’m talking about starting Iumo or Trey Jones in a starting lineup. I don’t see moving Giddy to a three in that starting lineup. Now, of course, you can say, you know, it’s positionless basketball, yada yada yada. But this this right here is telling you it’s not positionless basketball. There are positions in basketball and it’s just where I have Josh Giddy. Um, he can play the three. Like I said, they have played Trey Jones with him and Kobe White during, you know, times in the second, third, or fourth quarter, things like that. But starting the game and just how it operates, you want to get your guy the basketball and you want to get Josh Giddy the basketball so he can do kind of, you know, what he does best. Yeah. And I think that makes sense from the standpoint of talking about it through the lens of like traditional positions, which I think is a fine way to do it. For me, I think I’m more interested in like what is the role than what is the position itself. Okay? Because like think about Joic. He’s the one with the ball in his hands. He’s the one who initiates the offense. He’s the one who everything runs through, but you would never call him the point guard, even though he’s the point center. And so I think of Giddy in a similar vein where like he’s never going to be the one that’s guarding, you know, Steph Curry or John Morant or James Harden or any of the point guards in the league. He’s going to be on the lesser of the two wing positions. But to your point, he is going to have the ball in his hands. He’s going to be the one initiating the offense. And so offensively, he’s very much a lead guard. But I would still put him in the like point forward category because he’s just not really doing it on both sides of the ball. Um, and so like to me I I think his role is probably a little bit more similar to like a Luca or a you know maybe Jason Tatum is not the perfect example, but like those bigger wings who do initiate a lot of the offense and a lot of the offense runs through them. So um that’s where I would probably categorize Giddy. Um, yes, he’s going to act as a point guard offensively, but I think you still need a guard- sized player out there to defend his position for him. Yeah. Um, and so I guess like if you’re talking about it through the lens of this ranking, I would probably have him somewhere probably in the same area um where he was rated as a point guard, but just as a as a small forward, and then maybe somebody else is, maybe it’s IO or Kobe is considered the point guard or shooting guard. Would you have him more in this category if his defense was a little bit different? That’s a good question. You know, like if he was able to defend those, you know, smaller guards, if he was guarding point guards, then yeah, like Ben Simmons is a good example when he was playing at his peak. Thank you. He was he was guarding a lot of the point guards because that size was really disruptive and he also had the ball in his hands quite a lot. So, I think that is an example where in some sense it kind of is who you’re guarding more so than what role you have on the offensive end. I I’m glad we’re also talking about this because I want to go back to a point I made previously on another show we had where where we were discussing the biggest mistakes the Chicago Bulls had made. Oh, that was a fun one. And I said the biggest mistake they made was drafting Patrick Williams because of how it played out and how it happened. And this for me adds the fuel to my fire of what I’m talking about. You started off by saying that that this is probably the most important position in the NBA. And we don’t have a single guy on this list and don’t have a guy who we even think should be, you know what I’m saying, at this top 26 on this list outside of a guy who’s playing another position of point guard. Yeah. So, we have to look to another position to be like, okay, that guy might be on that list. or you mentioned Modest, you’re like he don’t even play that. But like that guy, that’s how far that draft position draft selection set the Bulls back because they are still looking for it. They are still trying to find it. And if it’s the most important position in the league and you don’t have that lined up, you’re going to have nothing but absolute problems for your team. And that’s what you’re seeing. You’re still trying to find this person. It’s why you went and got Isaac Aoro so you can see if he can fill in. And it’s why you talk about starting Iodumu there who is a combo guard. He’s not even a combo forward, but you’re talking about man, maybe we could start him there and get something out of that. It’s why we’re talking about Josh Giddy as I just mentioned. That is set them back so far for what they are trying to do and trying to accomplish as a team. It’s kind of one of the reasons, one of the reasons why they are still like in that middle is because nothing has elevated from the most important position on the floor, which is that 3 and D. you uh you know talking about Patrick and and how that set them back. Anthony in the chat saying remember when we thought Patrick Williams was the next potential Kawhi Leonard smh. Wow. I don’t know if I mean some people thought that. Yeah. Some people Yeah. Right. Yeah. The paw. Uh even wanting him to be not the next Kawawaii but better than this is I think the frustrating part. Uh Travis Mcnite saying this is disrespectful to Kevin Herder as you were just saying Dave like Danny Bulls deserve to make this list. I did take the uh the back end of the top 26 uh and have those names. Stephen, do you do that you have that we could take a look at just to see some of the competition that Herder or Aoro or whoever else was going up against here. Kaminga still dealing with his restricted free agency saga came in at number 26. You got Deon Vel, RJ Barrett, Andrew Wiggins, Benedict Mathan, Brandon Miller, and the incoming rook Cooper Flag rounding out the numbers 20 through 26 in these hoops hype rankings. 20 already. Uh I mean like can can you make an argument for Aoro or Herurder or anybody on this Bulls roster to be ranked ahead of any of those names? Not for me. I mean Herder had a good half a season, but it’s a half a season. So half a season don’t get you in the top 26. It’ll get you in the the lower half of it maybe, but not in the top 26, man. No, I agree. And I think the actually interesting question is like where would Giddy show up if he were on this list, right? Do like I would you say confidently that Giddy is somewhere in that top 26? I if we’re talking small forward, I think he would be I think he would. I don’t know exactly where because there’s like some weird we talked about this with the guard positions of like how does a role factor in? Like you have three and D guys in there that are higher or lower than like low-end lead initiators. So it’s it’s a challenging question, but we could go through it if you guys want. Yeah. I mean, would you rank him ahead of everybody who was on that list? the back end 20 through 26. Brandon Miller, Matan, uh Wiggins, not over Cooper flag, RJ Barrett, Devin Vel, I don’t know. It’s tough because like would you rather have a really solid 3 and D wing or would you rather have a lead guy that you have questions about who like could be really good but also has like real flaws? You can keep going. Lou Dort 19, Paul George 18, DeAndre Hunter 17. Make it stop. Trey Murphy, Jaden McDaniels, Brandon Ingram. Oh, Michael Porter Jr. Norman Powell, Jaylen Johnson. Pow’s a three. He sure is. Denny not so average anymore. Hey, he’s up there. How What’s Denny Aia? 10th. Wow. Shout out Denny Aia, baby. Mar Rose in ninth. Yeah. Now, now you’re getting to players you’re like, “Well, Josh, he’s definitely not better than that player.” Yeah. But so, like, you know, but some of those players in the teens and in the 20s, you can make arguments. I agree. that you’d rather have Josh Giddy than some of those names. Yeah, I agree. It’s not an easy argument to make. No, but I can make it. I can do it. With that, we got to knock out our first couple of ads. When we come back, we’re going to dive into this conversation about the fact that AK ain’t going to tank. So, what should the Bulls do to get out of the middle? Hit the like. Here’s some ads. Today’s show brought to you by RC Cola. Let’s be real for a second, everybody. The world has gone soft. Everybody gets participation trophies. People NBA teams are celebrating going to the playin tournament, not even getting out of it. Soda used to have some kick, too. 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I I mean, like the free RC leader at certain pizza joints when you’re doing a pizza delivery. They still do it. It is like It was the greatest thing ever when my friends and I were kids and ordering pizzas and it is still to this day the greatest thing. You get the unexpected surprise RC leader of cola. It is so freaking good. It is. I don’t know what it is. I don’t know what it’s doing, but combined with pizza, you I did it with Make sure I had ice on my Yes. The nice greasy like a greasy tavern style cola. Oh, see. I like I want to get up off the step right now and just find the nearest pizza joint. Greasy tavern style and some RC. Oh my god, it’s so good. That sounds like a game night right there. That’s That’s one of those like sense memories. I like I can feel and taste greasy tavern style and RC in my friend’s basement right now. Yeah. I can I can shout out Reaper. I can feel the controller and I can feel sunlight. It means I went outside a lot and hung out and earned that pizza cuz I’ve been running around the neighborhood, came back and played these video games, ordered that RC with that pizza. I’m waiting for somebody from RC to come by our office and leave cases of RC Cola that we can stock our our office fridges with. All Senos will be called immediately. Let’s go. Yes. Come on, baby. I’m going to need some of those pickme-ups when we get back into season mode. We’re in here watching the Bulls fight the Raptors. Stephen, 9 p.m. on a Tuesday. You did RC with yours, bro? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay, just checking. No, you mentioned the greasy pizza. It’s the combo. It’s just the combo. Okay. Yeah, it it it’s perfect. Okay. Better than peanut butter and jelly. Yeah. Saying something. Lamb and tuna fish. Lamb and tuna fish. Spaghetti with meatball. Well done, sir. Uh, all right, next topic. So, our pal Joe Calli wrote a little something over the weekend. Shout out. Uh, and it was his latest and greatest takedown of the Bulls front office for the path that they have chosen. Yeah, there’s a few interesting things in there. Not a whole lot of like new reporting of what’s going on. Just a reminder for Bulls fans as we’re now a about a month out from training camp and Bulls media day. He mentioned that the best path forward for the Bulls is the one they refuse to take. The summer has shown the 26 draft class has a chance to be even better than the one in 2025. A team such as the Wizards is counting on that. The Bulls, it’s an afterthought. Let the lottery balls fall where they may, playing the slow game for a front office that has time and contract extensions on their hands. of Joe for the Chicago Sunsat and thought, “Hey, we’ll wait until Big Dave is back.” The notion that Bulls fans, even those of us who have been dragged, kicking and screaming, hi me, have to face the fact that this front office and ownership group have zero interest in rebuilding that way. Yeah, let’s try and get ourselves a few high lottery picks to start over. Yeah, they’re not doing that. They are trying to remain competitive while flipping their roster, acquiring young players with experience, and aka again going back to his trade deadline press conference saying, “We’re going to try and build out a roster with nine or 10 very good players as opposed to a top heavy roster.” We’ve heard from him that that is the plan, and he asked the fan base for patience to execute that plan. Mhm. But it still begs the question, okay, no tanking. How are you going to go from a roster filled with young players with experience on moderate team friendly deals to making a better, more competitive team with a lot of those same pieces outside of relying on the internal development of your young players on your roster right now getting a lot better than they currently are? Well, I think that you just answered it right there. Um, that’s what the the hope and the concern is or the hope and the prayer is is that those guys get there. And Matt talks about being dragged kicking and screaming. The person dragging him was me with with tears in my eyes. I was crying the whole time because I listen, I didn’t want to do this, but I’m like, Matt, this is the reality. We have to deal with it. But but that’s the that’s what it has to be, Matt. Like, it’s no other way that they’re looking at this. They’re not saying they don’t want the draft. We don’t know if a free agent is going to be here or not. They’re going to get that. So, it has to be the development of these guys. Like, it has to be Modiselis growing. It has to be uh Asen uh ascending. Hey, that was dope. Hey, singing. It has to it has to be, you know, Josh Giddy, you know, growing into that player that Bulls fans think he already is. and hopefully he grows into, you know, more of a all-star uh kind of ball player. It also could include Kobe White if we’re talking about a future. We don’t know what that future will hold as far as his contract or anything like that. So, all of that has to work. That’s a lot to put on guys. And that’s the concern here is that it is so much to put on these players and rely upon strictly that when what we’ve seen from these guys so far has been yeah some nice things going on but I don’t know if it’s things to get you to a six seed in the playoffs going on kind of situation. Feels more like another playin for them things. So that’s the issue I see and how I kind of look at it. And when he asked for patience I get that. But now my question is how long? I understand you need patience to get this done, but how many years are we talking? Are we talking two? Are we talking three? Are we talking four? Cuz it’s not one. It’s definitely not going to be a one-year thing. So next year is going to be even more interesting because it’s completely based completely based off of what happens this season. And that is just going to be really interesting, man, going forward and watching. So but that’s what we’re going to be doing. I’m be sitting there rooting for this team, hoping these guys can grow, hoping they can ascend Will and hoping they can get really really better because it’s really truly the only hope and only way out that I see. Yeah, you you bring up a lot of really good points and I think there’s like just so many different angles with this, but I want to start like what are you trying to build? What’s the end goal? And I think that is up for debate. Like yeah, I think you can make a serious argument that like their goals are to be competitive every year and go for the plan because they think that’s what competitive means. That’s the evidence that we have. Um, and so I think that’s one thing for me. It would be how do you build a team that’s going to be a top four seed, get homec court in the first round on a con consistent, sustainable basis? How can you build that team that gets there every year? It doesn’t necessarily need to be a team that’s going to be like the championship favorite every single summer, but like how can you put together a group that can win 48, 50, 55 games every single year? That should be the goal. It doesn’t have to be like having the best player, winning every MVP every year, and winning the title, but how can you show that you’re building towards that? Um, and so I think that’s the first thing. And then you have to figure out how do you get there? And obviously they’ve gone through this path of not wanting to bottom out, uh, not being willing to take steps backwards in order to eventually take multiple steps forward, but instead overhaul the roster on the fly. And to me, it’s like you’re kind of looking at this room full of doors and instead of picking one door and going through it, you’re cracking open each of them and like trying to step through all of them at the same time. You’re trying to leave open the draft lottery, right? Cuz if you’re in the playin and you lose while you’re still in the lottery, but you only have like a 0.5 or a one or a 2% chance to move up and you keep your flexibility open. You don’t sign any big contracts. You’re not going to give Giddy the big payday. You finally get off Lavine. maybe you can get a free agent to come in in a couple of years, but like you don’t have max money, so it’s not going to be like a true game changer. Um, so that door is not fully open either. And then the trades, like we just haven’t seen them be willing to take big swings. Um, and that’s really it. Like those are the ways that you can build a team. And so if you’re not going to go in any one of those directions, how can you? And I think the key is going to have to just be like developing internally, making sure that the guys that they do bring in get better, and then leaving their options open to eventually be able to capitalize on something that presents itself. And I think that’s a dangerous approach to be like whatever the best thing that comes in front of us, we’ll just take that and as opposed to how do we like make our own luck here? How do we put ourselves in the best position to succeed? Um, and you know, I do think that there are some things that they can do even in this sort of half-measured approach in all these different directions, but I think the key is just like how are you going to eventually build up to that point where because I I think Dave, you brought up a really good point of like what is the timeline here? And the fact that Mark Eversley basically like swatted those questions away and said we don’t want to take we don’t want to put any expectations on right now because when you have expectations that’s when you start to make hasty decisions and we don’t want to do that. And it’s like okay I get that part but like what have the last three years been for then? Yeah. Uh you mentioned that thing Eversley had to say uh when he went back on the mic and they said, “AK, why don’t you take a lap?” Uh cuz you’ve been roasted every time you’ve tried to explain what your plan is on the mic for the last several seasons. Uh that that’s how Cowi wrapped up this latest article that he put out uh Sunday morning uh from Eversley. Quote, “I think for us, we need to remain diligent and pragmatic about how we build this. We don’t want to skip steps. Sometimes when you do skip steps, expectations build and you make mistakes. I don’t think we want to do that.” End quote. Cowi’s final line. Don’t worry. No expectations have been built here. Get him, Joe. Get him, Joe. I’m I’m maybe this like what are the expectations and the steps like And the steps and and the patience easy. Our guys, we have been patient enough. I’m crying. Anthony saying we’ve been patient since D Rose and Tibs left. What is the timeline? And when you ask for patience, I do think you owe it. You owe an explanation for that. You owe Correct. Okay. Be patient with the plan that we are laying out to you or be patient with the vision that we have for the future. But like you’re not providing a vision or a plan and you’re still asking for the patience. That’s just like blind faith. Yeah. And and listen, as I you know, I understand completely blind faith. I ask for it often when we was in France. I was asking for it if you go to give give me some faith. But the reason I could ask for it is cuz I proved it to Matt years and years and years and years, which is why he didn’t question me and then I proved it to goat and now it’s cool. But I understand that though, like when you haven’t shown the work, it works when you’re trying to do stuff like I’m doing. It’s really hard to do when you’re running an entire organization and what we’ve seen be, you know, put out hasn’t been good enough. Like it just hasn’t been good enough to to that level. I know we got to take a break, but it just hasn’t been good enough, man, for you to continue to ask for blind faith from this stuff, man. So, there’s been some things that are cool, some things that are nice, but a lot of that stuff is just teetering on the edge. And we’re like, are you just going to push that back? Like, just wait. You know what I mean? Just wait. I’ll throw the rope over. I’mma catch them. I’mma pull him back. But we’ve never seen you do that. Like, it’s really hard to do. So, it’s hard for an organization to to think that way or move that way when nothing’s been proven yet. Uh, one more comment before we go to break. Fine day, uh, in the chat because I think this is something we can pick back up on on the other side. He said, “I’d be fine with always quote competing if we knew how to get draft picks when they trade their best players.” That’s the problem. They want to compete without actually knowing how to manage and lead. Because again, this is not just about like realizing that the Bulls are in in the middle and stuck there and won’t go to the bottom to try to get out of the middle, but okay. So, how do they get out of the middle in in the positive direction? And what is AK willing to do to try to do that as far as the different things an executive can do between trades, drafting, and signing guys and free agency? And it seems like that list keeps shrinking and shrinking. So, what is there at AK’s disposal? We could talk about that on the other side of this quick ad break. Mhm. Hit the like button if you didn’t do it the first time or Stephen will find you and scold you. Yeah, hit the thumb ads gams. Today’s show brought to you by Ray Chevrolet in Fox Lake. They’re slashing prices on new cars and giving you big savings all month long. Come in today to shop the new car clearance event. Check out their selection of over 125 vehicles priced under $20,000. With one of Chicagoland’s largest Chevy Chevy inventories, you’re sure to find the perfect vehicle for you. 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He’s got a rate of five stars over 300,000 people because it’s Shady Ray y’all with a raise a O. So Shady the person you think is on the control. Hey, we’re back rolling along with the afternoon. Shout out to Stephen. That means I’m he’s used to Katie being here counting it in like that. Hey everybody. Hope you all like those friendly words from Matt’s on the Chevy and Shady Ray. Yeah. Ray is both Ray Chevy and Shady Rays. Oh, they should. Shady Ray Chevrolet. Rays combo. Let’s go. Get a Ray combo going. Want a new truck and new sunglasses. Oh, I like this. All right. So, as we were talking about how the Bulls can get out of the middle because they refuse to tank. What can they do? that quote from or that comment from fine day before we went to break about like things AK doesn’t seem interested in doing to try to improve his roster not just right now but set himself up with more assets and valuable resources to move forward where we’re talking about how long is this timeline of doing it the AK way because it seems like there have been multiple opportunities for AK to build his draft pick cupboard as certain veteran pieces of the failed experience ment of Lavine, Deard Rozan, Caruso, which still here, but Lonzo. All trades in which you you’re targeting these youthful players with experience, young players who might need a change of scenery or fresh start with the Bulls or or are trying to clean up your books or whatever else. In all of those veteran players being traded away, the only pick the Bulls received of any kind was getting their own pick back from San Antonio from the original Demar siding trade because they figured, hey, let’s not worry about it being top 10 protected in case we win too many games in March and April and aren’t picking in the top 10. And that’s exactly what happened. So, aha, see the the pick I did get is the pick that mattered. So, we could have Noah Asen here with the 12th pick and we didn’t have to hand that pick to the Spurs, but where are the other picks? Say what? Like, just because you’re not tanking doesn’t mean you can’t still put importance on draft capital if you’re trying to build a new team. Especially when there are opportunities to do that and also get better at the same point. Yeah. Like for example, this was something I’ve been meaning to talk about for the last couple years. Oh, go talk. Dial it out. Let’s do it. It’s not that serious, guys. Um, but like the Haywood Highmith trade, this was like two weeks ago at this point, but the Heat dumped him and his $6 million expiring contract using a second round pick to the Nets because they needed to get under the luxury tax. Like, the Bulls have more than $6 million of space before the luxury tax. They could have waved somebody and taken Heywood Highmith for a second round pick. And guess what? You get better because Heywood Heismith’s a good player at a premium position on the wing who defends. And like maybe if you did that early, you wouldn’t have had to trade for Isaac Aor and then you could have spent Lonzo Ball on something else. Are they really that much like different of a player? I I don’t know. I think Heywood Heismith’s pretty good. Um and then you also get a second round pick. And I think to your point, Matt, like there are opportunities for them to do both of those things, but when you just like completely ignore the picks in favor of guys that help you get better, you’re just like you’re missing opportunities. And I think this brings me to another question that I have, which is that when Arturus said the we want nine or 10 good players thing, like I think my assumption with that was like, well, yeah, but you also have to have a star too at the top of that nine or 10 good players. And I wonder if he just doesn’t view it that way because maybe he just doesn’t view like Hallebertton and Sakum at that level. And maybe he thinks that the Pacers are sort of the formula where they obviously have like two allstars, but they’re not like super duper stars. And maybe you can still build a team that’s competitive, that can go to the conference finals, that could go to the finals even without that. I don’t like I do think of Halbertton and Seakum at that of them at that level. And I do still believe that you need the top-end talent at the end of the day. But I just I guess I kind of wonder like and maybe that’s a good question for them is like we’ve we’ve tried to get them to explain well the the some the assumption that we can all agree on is you need a star player to get there. So if you’re not going to go for one in the draft or via trade or via free agency, how do you bring that star? And maybe you just can’t operate off that assumption that you need a star in the first place. Oh, okay. So, couple things with you. I completely agree with you in what you just said with that and I’m glad you said that you don’t feel that way about uh Hallebertton being that talked about as far as not being that superstar as far as they’re looking at because I was about to say that was the discussion going in in the playoffs is can we call him a superstar now just because of how good he whether you call him a superstar or a regular star he’s an allNBA player like yes without a doubt like he’s one of the best you need you need an allNBA player on your team you need that like for me okay great let’s let’s put that as the bar Man, let’s put you have to be an allNBA player. You have to be one of those guys. Let’s say second team like you have to be in that kind of level to be one of those guys. Jaylen Brunson or whoever you want to put in there. You have to be one of those guys there. Bulls don’t have those kind of guys. So the one year they had that kind of guy, they went to the playoffs. That’s how it works. You have to have that kind of guy. So for them to be looking at it any other kind of way for me is the incorrect way to look at it. You have to look at it as, dude, we’ve got to have that kind of guy on our team if we’re going to ascend in a way that even the Pacers or whoever team you’re looking at has ascended. You can look at it from a scheme way, too. Like, if you want to look at it as far as the offense is concerned, look at the Pacers offense, man. The I kept saying a million times that the Pacers can play any style of offense that you want to play and can play well. The bump and thump, you want to go inside, they got that. outside shooting. Oh my god, do they have that. Uh clutch performers, they have a ton of those. You know what I’m saying? They have more than one than Tyresese Hallebertton on their team. They can do it any kind of way. The Bulls on offense definitely a running gun kind of team. That’s when they’re at their best. And they have also proven they have some guys with some clutch things in them. Giddy was kind of clutch and we know Kobe has got that thing in them as far as being that clutch kind of player, which is great. But when it comes and and they can kind of play inside a little bit, you know what I’m saying, with Vouch, but just not, you know, to that real serious level because they don’t have a seakum like that on the team who can go get that. But they’re hopeful that a guy like Modis Melis, you know what I’m saying, can accomplish that and be that. Okay, other side of the ball. Indiana’s one of the best defensive teams out there, man. Swarming cats and taking that ball from them and then getting on those breaks. Elite rim protection. Elite rim protection. Rim protection. I’ve never seen honestly Andrew Nehard’s performance against Shay in the finals was one of the best perimeter defensive jobs I’ve ever seen. He was incredible. Yes, he was. So what you’re saying is the Bulls are basically the same as the Pacer. Right. That’s what I’m saying, Matt. No, what I’m saying is they don’t have that on that side of the ball. They are still working towards finding out their identity on defense and then figuring out how good they can be. You know, they got to figure out who they are. We know that modules can block shots. Um, we know that and goat uh told me about this as far as you know rebounding being as far as a part of your defense when uh Andre Drummond was here. We know that they can rebound the basketball because that’s what Josh Giddy does. Josh Giddy can rebound the basketball. So can Nola Buchvich. But for me it has to be more scheme than that when it comes to defense. The Bulls just don’t really have those horses to be like that on that kind of level. So, if you got some of it on offense and you got even less of it on defense, you still need time to build and to grow and to find that AllNBA player that you need on your team to be that kind of uh squad that you’re looking to be. And that takes time, which brings me back to my question, how much time are we talking here? Who needs to develop more development? Uh what do you need to do? Like what other players are coming in? And it just takes me back go just to as far as the plan is concerned for this cuz I again I understand the patience and I even understand the blind faith but how much time are you talking about here because you’ve got a little bit of this and a little bit of that and you know when you’re a jack of all trades it means you’re a master of nothing. So I need you to figure out exactly what it is that you’re trying to tell us as Bulls fans and I’m talking about me specifically. When you’re telling us exactly you’re asking for patience what are you saying that you’re giving back? you know what I’m saying with this man because it I feel it’s deserve it for Bulls fans to go in like this when they’ve given blind faith from the beginning when all the trades were made when you made all these decisions to get rid of guys and move forward in a different direction. Bulls fans had all that faith in the world. I think it’s time to actually explain a little bit of the plan and not just continue to say just just you be patient. It’s cool. Just do that. You got to let us know a little bit, man, because we see a little bit of stuff that you’re doing and in tiny bits and pieces. Nothing has just really clicked and locked together. It’s it’s so much of it, I think, and and it’s why I modest is is why modest is seriously all I can focus on as a Bulls fan when I’m trying to think of things that are hopeful. Okay. Because I think AK is relying so heavily on internal improvement of the people who are already here to for the team to get better because it’s it’s not about building draft capital and cashing in on that either with high quality picks or packaging picks to acquire uh win now talent, right? And we’ll talk about free agency in a second, not just 26, but 27 because there’s some fascinating names and the Bulls are going to have some cleaner books, but can they can they land any of them? That’s a whole other big problem. So, this this article was or this quote was also in Joe’s article from the weekend from AK talking about how he plans on making this team better. AK said, quote, I think we’re always going to look at how to improve this roster by adding a player or a high caliber player. At the same time, AK continued, I would not put any limitations on this roster or on the way Kobe has been playing, the way Josh has been playing. I think those players have a chance to play on a very high level. We’re constantly going to be looking for ways to improve from year to year.” End quote. And Cali followed that up with dot dot dot, but not this year because l and if you see Isaac Aoro swapped in for Lonzo Ball and drafting Noah Asen as major improvements to our roster every year. Yeah, that being this year. Great. Congrats on clearing that low freaking bar. But that’s what he’s done so far. That’s the we’re we’re working every year, year by year to try and improve our roster. You paid Trey Jones to stay stick around. You traded to get Isaac Aoro. You drafted Noah Asen, an 18-year-old who is a pra. So, internal development. Yeah. How much is AK banking on that part of his plan? Because I think it might be a bit too much a part of his plan. Yes, I I agree. and slash why I am obsessed with Mis Pelis getting better and even going back to you know the Pacers they’ve had internal development those guys on the team but the two best players and biggest guys were free agents and well not even free one was a trade you know what I mean one they just signed as a free but I’m saying those guys already came in a little readymade you know to do their thing so yes there was development there but this is different this is talking about everybody you know what I’m saying on the team like we got to develop this whole thing right year and get that straight. And then like you said, there’s some some um interesting players that will be devel a available in that free agency class of 2027. So then I maybe that’s it. Like I’m going to build this right here and get this nice and tight and just ready on that level. Then go get that free agent and then we’re taking off and we can roll with it like that. Maybe that’s the way he’s kind of looking at it. I don’t know if it’s the right way, but it’s might be the way that he’s doing it. Well, I think like at the end of the day, they just don’t have the answers right now. And that’s why like when he asked for patience, I I do feel like there’s an element of like you do have to give them patience because there’s not much else you can do. We knew that there were like 12 or 13 roster spots that were already accounted for heading into this free agency. Next year is when a lot of money comes off the books. Next year is when they do open up some cap flexibility. And it’s hard to have to sit through two completely wasted seasons. Uh a transition season in which they had the exact same outcome as the previous two and then another one where you still don’t know where they’re heading or where they’re going. And I think a big piece of that is because they don’t either. Like I think if they had a plan, they would have answered that when we asked them at the press conferences. And so I just don’t I don’t think that there is anything for them to say other than like we’re trying to figure it out. And if you just say like we don’t have a plan, we’re just letting Jesus take the wheel, then like they’re going to look really bad. So they’re kind of answering it how they have to. Okay. Um but I do think that 2026 summer and in particular 2027 is when a lot of that money comes off the books. It is when they can be a lot more aggressive in free agency. And if they’re not, then then I think you’ve got bigger problems because we’ve seen them try to be aggressive. We’ve seen them try to take big swings and those haven’t worked out. We’ve seen them try the patient approach. Like you can’t just be patient forever. At a certain point, you are going to have to start paying your own guys again. And like this is really the deadline where you’re going to have to make some of those decisions. And so for me, um it’s not going to be like through the draft in the sense that they’re going to be bottoming out to try to get a good pick. Maybe they get lucky in the lottery. Maybe they get lucky drafting 11th or 12th the way that they have last year and and hopefully this year with Noah. Um and and you’re going to have to try to build internally with those players that you do get. And that’s why it’s valuable to have all your picks. But at a certain point, like you have the infrastructure, you’ve got guys on cheap deals, you have to start paying them. Like there is a window where you can now go outside to bring in a free agent. And I think that’s where this upcoming summer and the following summer become really important. And again, I think this is their opportunity. Like Mark said he didn’t want to put expectations or, you know, expedite the timeline. I get that for this year. Sure. But this this next summer, I do think is when you have to start doing that because if it’s not going to be through the draft and it’s not going to be in free agency, then how else can it happen other than trades. And so I think they’re going to have to start making some moves. Yeah. I’ve never understood that phrase when you were You know who definitely doesn’t know how to drive a car? Jesus. Why is Jesus taking the wheel? Because it’s called faith. When you’re talking about the bull’s front office needing a better plan than the one they have or anything else, Jesus don’t know how to drive. Yeah, but if it’s anybody you would give your faith to to drive, that’s what the point is. Anybody giving that faith to to drive the car, it would be Jesus Christ. He would be so confused if you’re like, “Hey, get get in the driver’s seat of this car.” Yeah. Take us from where we are to over there. But you’ll trust him to figure it out. I’m going trust that dude to figure it out. I guess it depends on if you trust him orly correct about a lot of other stuff. The interesting part is you’ll probably be passed out in the passenger seat. So I don’t think you would be too concerned. That’s why Ubers exist. This is true, dude. Honestly, okay, that’s Jesus taking. How How do people still get DDs these days? I will never understand that. Maybe they can’t afford an Uber. Ubers are expensive. Users are expensive. That’s true. Depends on where you’re hanging out at. If you can’t afford an Uber to the bar, Yeah. Yeah. Don’t go to the bar or walk there. Fair point. Or walk there. That’s true. Get Jesus to give you a ride, I guess. Or AK. You know what? Can AK be more serviceful to Bulls fans that are at least the ones located in Chicago? I feel like he should be one of the sort of like, he’s not quite Boomer generation, but I think he’s on the cusp of Boomer. Okay. When they’re retired and they just like drive Uber around for fun slash cuz they’re bored and they’re like the really chatty ones. Okay. It’s like I’m just doing this to kill time and you know chat with people. You think because otherwise I’m at home just talking to my TV right drive around. Well, how crazy would that be if the guy who just comes up to the podium twice a year and mumbles for 5 minutes and runs away. He’s like the chattiest Uber driver. This is all about the context of the situation. Who is the Bulls player you can’t could see driving an Uber? Who I could Den Terry? I would I would sit in the backseat of Dale and Terry’s Uber and sit in traffic for an hour and just talk to Dale and Terry about anything Dale and Terry wanted to talk about. I can see that. I can see that. I’m with that. Five stars. Dale and Terry. I don’t think Goat would talk if he was driving the Uber. He’s all business. I would I would not talk. Yes. Anyone who tried to talk to Goat, if Goat were an Uber driver, he would give them one star as a passenger. I would be listening to my podcast. I guess that’s right. He’d have that divider. that divider in the back and see. I just pressed the button and it would raise up behind me. Right. Go up now. Oh, where were we? Okay. Yeah. So, getting back on track. Oh, yes. The other parts of AK’s plan that might exist. Obviously, he has been now preaching for the last year or so about like, hey, 2026, we’re going to have a lot of cap flexibility. And then that is definitely always something good for a front office to have in the NBA is clean books or books that are about to be clean. Obviously, the Trey Jones signing and Aoro coming in alters that a little bit for 2026, but then after the 26 season, Vu, Collins, Herder, Kobe, IO, and Javon Carter all as of right now are off your books. That’s six players. Mhm. And the 2027 free agency class has some freaking names in it. And I think if the Bulls have shown anything with this Giddy situations, they’re going to be shrewd with that. and rightfully so. I’m not saying they’re wrong. Obviously, I’ve commended them for being shrewd uh with how they’ve approached the giddy situation, but I think if they’re show has shown you anything is if they have a position that they can exploit and they can be in a position of power as far as the contracts are concerned, they are absolutely going to exploit it and take it and try to use every part of it, which is the right thing to do. It’s not the wrong thing to do. I’m so I’m saying that in terms of guys like Kobe and guys like IO, you know, those guys that are on their final year of things. Kevin Herder, uh, is Zach Collins on his final one? Yep. Zach Collins and, you know, those kind of guys. So they, this is why I keep saying stuff will be answered early on, you know what I’m saying, in the season. So when those guys, you know, do what they do and let’s if Kobe balls out and does those things, then he’ll have the upper hand of that. if he if those guys have an average to a below average season, they won’t have as strong of an upper hand with that. And it will definitely, in my opinion, determine how the Bulls move forward in free agency uh going forward as far as what guys they want to bring in. If they want to bring in a point guard, if they want to bring in another forward, if they need to bring another backup center, it will determine that. Absolutely. So, this is going to be a season, man, that I can’t wait to sit and watch because from game one, so many things are going to be on the line and are going to be answered. Well, and I think what’s interesting is like the way that like salary cap works and free for agency works is like you have to kind of align your books to to where all of the guys that you either want to let go or the guys that you want to retain, they have to align when their contracts end so that they are off the books. you have their their cap holds and then basically you can what you can do is like go into the free agent market, sign a guy and then resign your own players and that allows you to go up above the salary cap and you can still go below the luxury tax which is what they did in 2021 when they put that team together. And so that’s why I’m saying like this upcoming summer in 2026 is going to be the pivotal moment because you have to pay Josh Giddy now, right? like maybe they do the qualifying offer, maybe it’s a one-year deal and then you figure it out. But like for the most part, he is a decision you have to come to now, but next summer you’ve got all these guys coming off the books. You can wipe Nicole Vuch, Zack Collins, uh Kevin Hurder, you know, Kobe if you want, or Javon Carter, Denon Terry, like all those guys could theoretically come off the books. Uh or you can basically operate like they’re not on the books, sign a free agent, and then resign some or all those guys because once you come to terms with them and you actually resign them, now you’re above the cap and you don’t have cap space anymore. And so that’s why I think this trade deadline and next summer are going to be so critical and why it’s important that the Bulls get off to a good start because if they do now you can have some sort of confidence and conviction in the fact that we we ended the season well. We are confident what we saw and now it’s you know rolled over into the next year. We feel good about the core that we’re putting together. Now we can go out and make a trade. If you are trying to emulate the Pacers it’s the Seakum trade. you go out and you go look for a former all-star or an all-star caliber player that’s got a year or two left on his contract. You trade for him and then you can extend him. And then once you’re above that cap now, you can still resign your players while staying under the luxury tax because at the end of the day, they should probably tear it down and rebuild. They should go for draft picks. They’re not going to do that. So to me, the pre- agency route of trading for a player who’s going to be a free agent in 26 or 27 and then bringing all your guys back, but that’s only if they’re good. If they aren’t good, right? Right now, you know that and now I think it’s time to like tear it down. And then it’s like starting the whole process over. But about to be my question to you. I do think that this like these first 50 games of the season could determine whether they go allin or not. Yes. Because that’s what we saw in 2020 when they traded for Vouch, right? was the Bulls are actually looking kind of good. Zack Lavine’s playing like an all-star. He’s having his best season. Uh they liked what they saw early in Patrick’s rookie year. Kobe was looking good and they went out and got a center and now you can resign your guys, bring in a couple more and then move forward with them. But if those guys were all looking terrible or, you know, they just weren’t confident in their ability to continue improving, that’s when they should have traded Zack, traded Kobe, traded Patrick, traded whoever, um and really started over with a bunch of picks. So to me, this this trade deadline and next summer is when they should either go all in or go all out. And and oh, I’m so glad you said that cuz that was definitely stay in the middle if you go all in or all out. Yeah, but that’s what I’m saying. Like I can I can p like it’s palatable for me to to give them patience and stay in the middle up until the trade deadline. After that, you have to have big decisions cuz you if you don’t, you’re out of time. You got to resign your guys and now you can’t use free agency. Yeah. So like to me that is a deadline. This trade deadline is a deadline not just for when can guys be traded. But it’s you need to know what you have in your guys because you need to either trade them or trade to complement them. But that’s the last chance you have to be able to do it based on the way that your cap sheet is set up. Man, that’s because the going all out part everything you said is exactly how I was thinking, but now I’m thinking like the going all out part, it’s nothing I’ve really seen them ever do. They’ve always kind of, you know, went for it. even when he first got here and make the trade, you know what I’m saying? Even the team wasn’t great. You know what I’m saying? When he got here like that, but he still was like, “Nope, I’m make this trade for V and get him and get Wendell out of here and trade, you know, away my F because I see that this could be a team that can win now with what I want to do as far as free agency is concerned. So if coming in and you thought the team wasn’t great and you still make those moves when you if it happens that they still show you they aren’t great, I don’t know if he’s still going to be like, “Okay, fine. I’ll go all out.” You know what I’m saying? But are you saying because of the money of it would be a would make more sense of it to do it that way or because the money of it they won’t really have another choice but to do it that way? they won’t have another choice because if you get to next summer and you haven’t made any moves and you know we the free agent list is like it had Luca and Dear and Fox on it now that’s not the case like there’s not any free agents that you really want to throw money after. Yeah. Um, so are you going to just resign all your guys and then once those guys are locked in now that’s the team? And so like for me it’s similar to the situation that they were in last summer with Caruso and with the Rozan where it was like their only option is to sign and trade Rozan right now because they can’t give him the money that he wants and you know he’s just not going to sign for less than that. So you have to sign and trade him to get off of him to get something and nobody else is out there. So that’s like the only way for it to work. Next summer it’s like you can either resign your guys and just run it back again at which point like I mean you’re just banging your head into a wall. Like there’s there’s no point to that. Um and so I think the the financial element of it requires them to make a a big trade this summer um or next off season before they commit to the players on their roster because they’re going to have eight guys coming off the books. Like they’re going to need to fill out a roster. you still need to resign guys and you can like let some go strategically uh or fill in the gaps however with draft picks or whatever, but like they need to make decisions because the books are going to start to get clogged up again. And when that happens, now you’re out of flexibility and now you’re in the same situation you were in 22 and 23 when yeah, you probably wanted to make some moves, but you’re above the cap, you’re right below the tax, you have no draft picks, you’re already out future picks, like you can’t do anything. And that’s how they that’s why they stayed still for two full seasons, three full seasons. And that that’s the middle that I don’t think the Bulls are will ever try to get out of above the cap under the tax. Like that is the middle that they are shooting for always. Always. And Michael Ryanorf has said at various points in time in the past like if we have something close to resembling a championship roster and need one more piece to make it a championship contending roster, then then we’ll pay the luxury tax for that roster. Yeah. knowing full well I think that they’ll never get there without forking over that kind of money to get to close to there. Yeah. It’s like oh yeah it’s like chasing something that you’ll never catch. Yeah. As a fan who wants to see this team spend big to put together a winning roster and the the other limited ways and options and avenues they have which is what we’ve been just trying to talk our way through for the past 45 minutes. Like the the whole pre- agency thing is interesting go free pre- agency versus free agency because free agency is just becoming a thing of the past more and more. We already signed Fox sign saw Fox signed Lucas signed those were going to be the two of the biggest names in the 26 free agent class. How many of the big names that are in the upcoming 27 free agent class or potential unrestricted free agents in the potential free agent class as we head to overtime? Head to allow.com if you want that bonus coverage. um that like uh that I think is something that AK has to deeply consider. Uh and you’re right about go is adding talent that way. a player who has a year left and then you will decide am I going to pay this player big which they kind of just did with Josh Giddy but like a a name a bigger name a big bigger caliber player because the Bulls have not had any had any success if if they’re actually trying to play in actual open waters free agency despite being a big market team and all of the the lore that comes attached to the organization and the six championships in the glass case six the biggest names in the league who are interested in shopping around never walk through the bull’s door and say yes sign me up. Yeah. So, how does AK account for that? And and that’s that’s why Okay. So, you know, let’s say they let’s like follow that thread if they go with the trade route. That’s why it’s all the more important that they get this information early on in the year so they can feel confident in the players that they have and building around them because that’s going to require trading picks. It just is. Or some of your young players like maybe they put a Senate in a package and try to go get somebody. Um cuz like that’s the only way to do it. And so I I just feel like if you aren’t really confident in who you have, then there’s no point in giving up future assets. M um the the luxury tax thing like I just I’ll believe it when I see it. I don’t really like I just and even then I might not believe it. Yeah. Um so I’m not even really considering that. But like if they are serious about this path, I do think it kind of has to be a trade at the deadline or next summer before they make any big deals. I just Yeah. And like are you are you ready to do that? Like probably not based on what we’ve seen. They’re not even ready to like commit to Josh. Yeah, that’s the way. You You need to be convinced yourself that the pieces you have, the young players with experience who are going to spend 25 26 season getting according to AK significantly better internal development. That’s a big part of what how we’re going to become a better team than the one we were this past season. Yeah. You need all of those players to get better to convince a big player to come play with them. Yeah. Because to want to come play with them, right? It’s not that lore anymore there. And teams also don’t care about the bigger markets anymore because it’s such a smaller world because of communication and ways to get your message out. Of course, it’s easier if you’re in LA. It’s easier if you’re in Chicago, but it could still be done, you know? So, you’re watching guys go to Indiana and of course San Antonio and and those kind of places like it doesn’t matter anymore. Phoenix, uh we seeing Kevin Durant like guys want to win at the end of the day. Of course, like that competitive comes in, but they’re still thinking about as far as a brand and and what you can offer a free agent. That’s part for the course now. It’s not a big thing anymore. They’re looking at the tax. You know what I’m saying? And what they have to pay, you know? They’re like, “No, dude. That’s a little bit too much out for a property tax.” I don’t think so. So, all that stuff kind of plays in more now than I’ve ever seen it matter before to a NBA player. And that’s why like, you know, the the pre- agency part of it I think is important because it is hard to get a free agent to decide to come there, especially when they can’t like team up with the guys that they want to play with. So, think about Trey Jones. Obviously, not a star player, but like do we think that the Bulls signed Trey Jones in free agency this year if they didn’t have him on the roster already? Like, it’s a lot easier to bring your own guys back, that’s a good point. No. Then go out and just sign a free agent, right? And so I do think like making that trade even if it’s for an expiring contract or somebody that expires in 27 getting somebody in the door already getting them to buy in like I don’t I don’t think I would have heard Kevin Herder like talk glowingly about the feeling of playing with the Bulls and the freedom that he had there if he didn’t already play for the Bulls and have and know what that freedom felt like. So I do think that it just might have to end up being a trade. Wow. And and if you’re going to make a big trade, you got to put draft picks on the table. And so you you have to feel confident in who you have. And that’s why to me it’s like in the past I’ve kind of felt like well they should probably be losing these games because that would be much better for the organization’s long-term health. But now it’s like okay if they continue to be mediocre and don’t win. Now you got to decide to tear it down and now you’re starting over. And then it’s like what have the last three or four years been for? Whereas if they do start to win and they do put it together and you do buy into it and they are feeling more real now you can feel more confident in making a big trade and building on what you have because I agree what they have within right now is not enough. You do need to complement it and bring somebody else to the table because what they have just simply isn’t enough but it’s just a very pivotal I think season deadline and next offseason to where you have to somehow come to terms with that being the right decision to make. M maybe not enough for you goat. He’s spitting. Maybe not enough for me or for lots of Bulls fans out there. It appears to be enough for AK’s bosses. Uh just like uh that that Eversley quote that GI used at the end of his write up yesterday. Keeping expectations low around here. If your expectations are low, you won’t be as easily disappointed. Rule of life, kids. Bulls fandom. Hey, Julia. Uh, some of us still demand that our expectations be high because you know what’s fun? Winning. Winning. Watching your favorite team win. Six and0. Yeah, that was fun. Can we go back to that at some point? No, Kim. No, it was fun. Can we win a Can we win a playoff series for the first time in a decade? Can we do that? Oh my god. I would be floored if the Bulls got out of the first round of the playoffs anytime soon. Floored. Floored with excitement here. It’s so fun. Oh god, I miss it. It’s been 84 years. All right, with that we will pause the conversation for today. Read goat stuff.com. Take advantage. Oh, real quick shout out. I meant to do that. Thank you, Stephen. Anthony saying, “Hey fellas, can I get a birthday shout out to my sister Stephanie Bulls fan and fan of the pie?” Happy birthday, Stephanie. Many happy returns. I hope the Bulls disappoint you less this season than last, but we won’t. But we’ll be here to help you and embrace you if you are disappointed. Sending you hugs. Get ready for it. Appreciate you. Uh, nine versus 10. Here we go. Yeah. Um, read goat stuff. Become a diehard. Take advantage of that new tailgate tier die hard promo going on right now. Available cow.com. Check it out. You can also take advantage of it if you’re a diehard already to get yourself those tailgate tickets. First tailgate for CSO Bears two weeks from tonight, Monday Night Football week one. Uh, plus all the other perks. Follow will_ly. Um, big Dave is a bow. BWL sports. I’m Bulls_p. We are CO_Bull. Shout out to today’s king of the controls, Steven Nicholas. Stephen, did you have fun talking pulls today? There was there was They just make me so mad. Butler. They just make me so mad. It is what it is. Welcome to the party, pal. We now dismiss you back to your regularly scheduled Bears duties. Also making me mad. Hey, we will see you right back here tomorrow, same time, same place, 4 p.m. Central, for another fresh live episode, Bulls Nation. Have a great Monday night. See you. Be good. Peace. Love y’all. [Music] [Applause] We all silly like the mayor.

The CHGO Bulls crew discuss the ideal path forward for the Chicago Bulls, knowing that the team’s VP Arturas Karnisovas has zero interest in tanking or trading for draft picks. Chicago Sun-Times beat reporter Joe Cowley wrote over the weekend about AK’s insistence on trying to build through the middle, and the complications that presents. Peck, Big Dave and Will Gottlieb try to establish what a path back to legitimate contention without tanking would look like. Would trades be involved? What about the team’s cap space in both 2026 and 2027? And how much can the team bank on internal improvement? The guys also react to zero Bulls players making HoopsHype’s Top 26 Small Forwards list for the 2025-26 season.

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