Southwest Division Preview: Rockets Land KD, Spurs’ Leap & What’s Next for Grizzlies | RealGM Radio
What’s up everybody? Welcome to Real GM radio. I’m Wes Goldberg. Today Keith Parish and I are breaking down the Southwest division. The Rockets are the clear favorites at the top, but it’s pretty open after that. Most people, I think, are picking the Spurs to make a leap this season, but Keith and I make the case that you shouldn’t overlook the Memphis Grizzlies. It’s a fun, in-depth conversation. Let’s jump in. [Music] All right, it’s Real GM radio. Thanks so much for tuning in. The best way, as always, to support the show is to hit that subscribe button on YouTube. Make sure you follow us on your podcast app to get this show every week. This is our Southwest Division preview. I’m here with Keith Parish from the Fastreak Breakfast and Grits and Grind podcast. Keith, um, we’ve known each other for a long time. have not potted together a ton, I would say. But I’ve also, this is my fault because since I’ve taken over real gym radio over the last year, I feel like I’ve barely talked about this conference. Not that it doesn’t deserve it. Like I, you know, I talked about the Houston Rockets during the playoffs. A little bit of WBY. I think we did a segment on Cooper flag and the Dallas Mavericks, but this is a fascinating conference for a lot of different reasons, especially after this offseason. Um, so this is our chance. This is our chance to get into it. uh Southwest Division preview. Uh I do think it’s one of the more interesting conferences in the league. Yeah, absolutely. I um am excited to talk about it. It’s good to podcast with you again. I know you were on Fast Break Breakfast back in the day. Yeah. But it it’s it’s definitely been a little bit. Yeah. No, the Southwest is great. It’s also the uh I think the most absurdly named division. It’s like the Southwest if we’re using a US map from like 1820. Yes, absolutely. Uh a Tennessee team, a Louisiana team. So, yeah. No, I’m excited to talk about it. That’s a great call. Uh our divisions are not the divisions in the NBA are not named right. Just I mean, I think a lot of them have an argument where you’re like, “All right, I get it.” But then there’s all right, you think, “Okay, there’s the southwestern flare of a city like San Antonio.” Mhm. But like, you know, Memphis, not so much. New Orleans, uh, these these cities are on the Mississippi River, right? And again, that’s not really considered what we would call Southwest anymore, right? This is like Louisiana purchase times. Yeah, I’m willing. I know New Orleans and Memphis both willing to go to the Eastern Conference, of course, if that ever became an option. But I am very pro re like massive realignment when the NBA adds the Seattle and the Vegas teams. I am very pro massive realignment to the point that I would get rid of the East and the West Coast conferences and I would just make it like the NFL or Major League Baseball with like a National and an American League and just mix them all up. Yeah, there is there’s a strong argument from I know fans of teams in the Southwest division. There’s a strong argument to eliminate conferences period where it’s like our our it’s so hard and you look at the Eastern Conference and it’s like there’s no one good in the Eastern this is wild and and you have like you have team building things that we’ll get into I’m sure. But you have a team like the Grizzlies where if the Grizzlies were in the Eastern Conference, the Grizz is the team I cover on my show Grits and Grinds. If the Grizzlies were in the Eastern Conference, like they wouldn’t be trading Desmond Bane. I don’t think they’d be like, you know what, Eastern Conference, either in the grit and grind era or at some point during the Jaw Mar, they would have been in the NBA finals. I’m just saying we’re we’re Grizzlies fans watching the Pacers make it to the finals, right? And it’s like we won 48 games in the West and everyone’s like the Grizzlies are horrible. Blow it up. And it’s like, man, if we were in the East, we’d be competing or they’d be competing for homec court advantage. I do think if they if they eventually do expansion, even though Adam Silver’s been pumping the brakes, I guess that maybe they’re not looking at it. Yeah, I don’t know what the answer is, but eliminating conferences makes some sense. There are a lot of pods of of geographically close cities where it’s like Minnesota should be playing Yes. the Bulls and Cleveland, Memphis should be in the Eastern Conference, but there’s there are some but there are again it becomes hard a little bit. you start pairing off the teams, you get to the southeast and then of course Miami is not that close to any of them outside of Orlando, right? And so I don’t know, it’s a little it’s a little hop over the uh over the Gulf of Mexico to get over to to New Orleans. It’s not that bad, but not bad. It’s not bad. Um especially with the private jet, who is before we get into the preview, like who is Memphis’s biggest basketball rival? That’s a great question and a lot of it is just based off of playoff history, right? I think we want to be rivals with New Orleans because it seems fun. There’s a lot of similarities in the cities. Of course, they’re two of the smallest markets in the NBA, but also you have that that flare of the Mississippi River. You got a connection with blues music and you got great food in each city. Uh the NBA wanted it to happen years ago based on the John Marant and Zion Williamson drafts and so there would seemed like that would be a thing but it’s not really a thing. It like no like it just hasn’t come into fruition. I would say depending on the year, Grizz fans are like our rival is the Clippers because we face up with them so many times during the Lob City era, during the Grit and Grind era, like the Thunder. There were so many matches with the Thunder where it’s like we consider, you know, the Thunder being a rival, but now the Thunder, we are not their peer as far as basketball quality. So, the Gers don’t really have one. They really they really lack one whether it’s geographic or I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t I don’t I don’t know who I would pick right now. I feel like they’ve all kind of there it seemed like maybe the Timberwolves for a second there. Again, there was a playoff series matchup. There’s the the Anthony Edwards and John, two young superstars who were, you know, big in the NBA’s the kind of media focus where they’re bringing these like these are maybe the next faces of the NBA. jaw while while he’s still very popular online doesn’t seem to be as focused from the NBA’s interest for obvious reasons and so I don’t know. Yeah, I I I’d have a hard there’s a minute there that maybe it could have been Golden State. Maybe it was Golden State for a minute there. Yeah, and that’s a good one too and there’s a there’s been a lot of Draymond Green Memphis animosity and of course there’s a lot of postseason showdowns there as well. Yeah, I think that’s a good call for the Warriors. um like for for your Heat. Do you still claim the Knicks? I mean, cuz it was historically the Knicks, but now like it’s definitely a generational thing, right? So, there’s a generation that like my dad is like the Knicks. Like, the Knicks are the the biggest rival for the Heat. Nobody could pass it. And I was like, well, they haven’t really that rivalry hasn’t mattered since the turn of the century. So now like if you ask a younger Heat fan, it would be the Boston Celtics obviously since the last sort of few years. They’ve met in the Eastern Conference Finals three separate times over the last basically half decade. But even if you like grew up with like the big three era heat, you could look at the Indiana Pacers and say that’s one of our biggest rivals. Um, and so like, yeah, the Heat thing tends to be way more generational because it always feels like different Heat eras have different rivals. Like Alonzo Morning and Tim Hardaway, their rival was the Knicks. Uh, Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, like their rival was the Chicago Bulls and the Indiana Pacers. And then like Jimmy Butler and Bam Matabio, their rival was the Boston Celtics. Yeah, that makes sense. And a part of it also, it’s like the rest of the Heats division kind of. Sorry. Like if the Hornets were better, maybe the Hornets would be a better rival. You think you could get like an Atlanta thing going on? I mean, the Magic are in in descendency right now. Maybe it heats up in the next couple years where there’s like a Battle of Florida thing. Orlando wants Miami to be their rival and they’re like, “We’re big rivals. Like where the it’s like it’s it’s like well like people in Orlando say that people in Miami are like, who are you again?” Uh yeah, there’s a there’s a lot of mismatched fan bases. I think going back to the thing you said about the Warriors and the Grizzlies, there’s the time where the Grizzlies are like, “The Warriors are our rival and Warriors fans are like, “Please, right? It was the Don Draper meme.” Like, our thing was like, “Why does Draymond and Klay Thompson keep talking about us, right?” Like, like, if we don’t mean anything to them, they sure talk a lot, but it that’s neither here nor there. Uh, all right, let’s just jump into this the the the Southwest here. Um, so we’re going to talk about the entire division. We’re going to talk about some of the biggest moves that each of these teams made, who got better, who got worse, and then uh at the end, we’ll kind of make some predictions about which teams that we think uh will make the playoffs and how ultimately this division will finish at the end of the season. But let’s just start with the number one question after this offseason, Keith, who got better? I suppose we could start with the Houston Rockets because they obviously got better. They made arguably the biggest addition in the league this summer in adding Kevin Durant. They also add Clint Capella, Dorian Finny Smith, Josha Kogi. They lose Dylan Brooks and Jaylen Green in that trade. Jock Landale, Cam Whitmore traded to uh Washington. Um but it goes back to Kevin Durant. Huge addition. Makes a ton of sense. Made a lot of basketball sense from the very beginning. It’s why a lot of people kind of earmarked the Houston Rockets for Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant bought in on the idea. He gets traded to Houston. He’s going to help their offense right away. The Rockets actually didn’t have a terrible offense last year. I feel like the the Rockets sort of get lumped in with the Orlando Magic a little bit in terms of oh, really awesome defense. Their offense couldn’t score at all. They were 12th in offensive rating last year. They weren’t a bad offense. Now, a lot of that like their best offense was off of missing shots because a lot of that was like offensive rebounds and then obvious and the points in transition and stuff like that too. But, you know, you look at their what they need to get in the playoffs. They needed half court isolation scoring. We got to throw the ball to somebody and that guy’s got to go get a bucket for us. They were 24th in ISO scoring in the regular season near the bottom of the league. Uh, but they were also top 10 in frequency. So, in other words, they did a lot of they tried to score a lot in isolation and they were really bad at it. Kevin Durant will allow them to continue to lean into that part of their offense, but unlock a good version of it, right? They’ll continue to be able to do a lot of isolation scoring. They’re not going to have to change their offense a ton, but obviously they’re going to be a lot more efficient if it’s Kevin Durant taking those shots. Yeah, I mostly agree. I think the acquisition of Kevin Durant was a no-brainer, especially when you consider just the cost. And I, as an outsider, was very amused by just the reactions I saw of Rockets fans who seemingly were as excited to get rid of Jaylen Green and Dylan Brooks as they were to acquire Kevin Durant. And like you say, the idea for this is is postseason half court basketball. They’d already had enough success in the regular season, and I think they could have continued at that same level. And when you point out their offense wasn’t that bad, it’s fake offense, and I’m very familiar with this as a Grizzlies fan. It was the same Grizzlies formula. There’s a common thread. There was a Steven Adams and a Dylan Brooks. And it’s like, yeah, we force a ton of turnovers and we get all the offensive rebounds and that’s why our offensive numbers are good and that’s why we’re mashing teams up in the regular season. And then there’s the huge question of what about the playoffs? I mean, it is a little bit funny that, you know, the whole trope of the playoffs slowing down and halfcourt possessions being maybe more important. I don’t know if the league is slightly veering away after we see what the Pacers did and the Thunder did where they’re like, “What if we actually just keep forcing all the turnovers and keep pressing all the way up into the NBA finals and don’t even need to shoot great numbers from the three-point line and we can still win a title.” Um, or the Pacers and be like, you know what, we don’t have maybe that perfect isolation scorer like Hallebertton for his gifts. It’s not really that guy. Uh, Seakum does it in spurts, but he’s not like the, “Hey, clear out. We can go three possessions in a row with Seakkum just getting it at the elbow.” Durant should fix that. Now, when you said they’re obviously better, my I don’t know if it’s my contrarianism wants to push back and just say, “Are we sure?” M because they are losing a lot in Jaylen Green and Dylan Brooks and their roster while the acquisition of Kevin Durant makes all the sense in the world the rest of the roster it’s a little bit weird they didn’t actually get like guards they have Fred Vanble Vleet but it’s like when I was like putting together a depth chart like I went to real GM I’m like what does Real GM say the depth chart is I’m like oh that’s kind of weird and then I’m like did they miss something and I’m like no like if Fred Vanble misses a game it’s like is Aaron Holiday and Reed Shepard like are they starting like what’s going on? So again the acquisition of Kevin Durant brilliant and should elevate the postseason and I guess also I’m saying or when I think of them they’re coming from a pretty good spot. They’re coming from a 52- win team that was very good. When I say obviously better, I’m like theoretically like I think a lot of that is baked in Am Thompson becoming Scotty Pippet. It’s like okay if a men Thompson does actually become if he takes another leap forward okay I start to see it but I’m still wondering who’s going to make jump shots and like who’s going to run the offense? And so those are my questions. While I still think this team is the team to beat in the Southwest division just so I don’t get angry feedback from Rockets people. I think they’re the team to beat in the Southwest. I’m just saying I have a lot of questions. Also, Dylan Brooks has been the king of the Southwest Division. This man has won three of the last four Southwest Division titles. The guy shows up to work every night, right? He plays. He brings an edge that the Rockets, I’m saying, might be the latest team to be like, “Wait a minute, that guy was holding it all together with with his practice habits and his uh what’s the right word? His quirk Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. His quirkiness, his intensity. Yes. Um I call I call it snot factor. Yeah. I mean, I’m curious to see what the what losing the inefficient chucking of both Dylan and Jaylen Green where it’s like, you know what, it kind of helped things out. And so I I don’t I don’t know what it’s going to look like. They they were both innings eaters, right? And I think that kind of thing is really important in um Oh, what’s the cat’s name? This is Dorothy. Dorothy was coming to knock over the camera, which is her hobby. Okay, you you the cat for the audio listeners, the cat has entered the chat. Um, so, uh, Dylan Brooks, Jaylen Green, important innings eaters. And I’m glad you brought up Jaylen Green because I feel like that’s being treated as just sort of like a, oh, it doesn’t really matter because they got Kevin Durant. I think it matters. Jaylen Green is good. Jaylen Green is flawed, but he’s not a bad player. And I feel like Jaylen Green is one of those players who we NBA Twitter is just like, “Nope, we’re just going to make fun of this guy. We are going to collectively bully this guy.” But, and I’ve mentioned this stat a million times on this show, when he scored 30 or more points, the Rockets were 12- one. They were unbeatable when Jaylen Green got hot. And if every month of the year was March, Jaylen Green would be a first ballot hall of famer. I get it. Like, he does a lot of his work at the end of the regular season. Yeah. But that stuff still matters. And it really does matter in a Western Conference where you’re still fighting for playoff positioning in March, right? So, that stuff matters to me. and and losing him as an onball creator. They are going to have to replace that. Rockets fans will tell you, “Well, we’ve got Reed Shepard. He barely played last year. He’s going to replace John Green.” Okay, probably. Maybe. I don’t know. We’ll have to see it. We don’t know yet. A man Thompson is going to be he’s going to have to have the ball in his hands a lot. They when they drafted him, they sort of envisioned him as a maybe a point guard one day or whatever. Okay. Amen. Prove it. He’s going to have to do it, too. Yeah. I was going to weigh in on Reed Shepard where it’s like that’s asking a lot of a guy who couldn’t crack the rotation last year and couldn’t crack the rotation when they were down bodies and I wish I could say I saw more in summer league where I’m like okay Reed is ready to do that but they only played him a couple of games and he seemed to struggle against ball pressure in summer league this year. So you’re like that’s what you’re depending on. And I mean, maybe it is a Min Thompson at the two or or Kevin Durant going back to the Seattle days sort of a shooting guard type thing. Like I just I don’t understand. But like if the league is going to Twin Towers and if they’re going to enforce their Twin Towers on other teams, well, they they have more centers than maybe any other team. So Capella, they’ve got Steven Adams. It looks like they’re going to play the Twin Tower thing more. They’re going to lean into it. They experimented with it in the second half of last season. Fell in love with it. did it a bunch in the play in the in the playoffs in their in their series. Um, and uh, it sounds based on their offseason moves, it looks like they’re going to try to lean into that even more. And look, they’re they’re going to have to rely on Shangun to get all those all those Nicola Joic comparisons like he’s going to have to do an impression of him where he’s pro is he’ll probably have the highest usage rate of his career despite having Kevin Durant on the team now because Jaylen Green isn’t there. We’ll see how much more they move the offense in Aman Thompson’s direction, which I think they should have quite I love Aman Thompson. I think that guy could be a star, but we’ll see what they end up doing with it. Um I overall I’m not super worried just because between ShenGun Durant, Aman Thompson, Fred Van Vleet, there’s just enough sizzle and creativity and just ways to make it work. And Emodoka is a really good head coach and he’ll figure out ways to make it work. And if their offense is simply one of the players throws it to Kevin Durant and everybody offensive rebounds again, they’ll be fine. Yeah. I mean, again, we’re we’re nitpicking for a team that should be near the top of the Western Conference. Looking at the roster, the more I stare at it, it’s like a pot roast where no one communicated beforehand about what what they were bringing, right? And everyone brought mac and cheese. Yeah. Everyone brought mac and cheese. And it’s like you start building this roster, you’re like, “Oh man, we got the best mac and cheese in the world in Kevin Durant.” And then we have this other awesome mac and cheese. Uh we’re going to lock down Jabari Smith Jr. to to a solid contract and he’s going to be here. We also still have all this other mac and cheese. And then like Stephen Adams reasserted his value coming back from his injury in the postseason last year at the end of the regular season. They’re like, “Oh, let’s pay to keep him.” And then it’s like, man, we’re just missing the main dish. I mean, maybe the analogy falls apart. Main dish can be kept up. But still, we’re we’re missing like a guard. We’re missing a wing. We’re missing people who guard wings. And someone’s like, “Hey, I brought Dorian Finny Smith.” You’re like, “Matt, it’s kind of more mac and cheese.” And then at the very end, they’re like, “Hey, Clint Capella was a great rocket. He’s a pretty solid NBA center.” It’s like, “Are you serious?” They’re how is Clint Capella going to get on the court? And so that that part of it is weird where I think I I would be more over the moon for the Rockets if maybe the Dorian Finny Smith was I don’t know a shooting guard or a or a combo guard or something like that. It doesn’t have to be this big player. Even if they went out and just signed Cole Anthony, if they would have gotten him, I would have felt like, okay, that’s somebody that can do something with the ball in his hands. Well, why not why not Tai Jerome instead of Clint Capella, right? I mean, maybe we could talk. Let’s Let’s talk GMs. I mean, I’m not saying I don’t know how long Zakiti is going to be out, but let’s uh maybe I I will say when we get to other teams like oh, I don’t know, the Pelicans and some of these rosters in the Southwest. I do feel like if we got to combine all the rosters and then res-plit up teams, we could make more contenders than currently exist in this in this division. If that makes sense. That would be a very fun exercise. Yeah. The Spurs have way too many guards. the Yeah, the Spurs don’t totally make sense and it’s like let’s talk about the Spurs. So, okay, let’s just jump right into them because uh I think they did get better. They added more talent. They add L Cornet, Kelly O Lin, Lindy Waters the third who I think uh had a nice first half of the season last year with Golden State and then sort of fell out of the rotation. They obviously draft Dylan Harper and Carter Bryant. Both of them looked sensational in Vegas, I thought. Um they lose Chris Paul, Malachi Brandon, Blake Wesley. They’re better because of the additions I think net. Although I don’t think we’re talking enough about how big of a loss Chris Paul is. That guy played every and started every game for them last year. Yeah. Coming off of WBY’s rookie year, we were like, just get this guy a point guard, somebody that could throw him the ball. They did and then they got rid of him after a year for more scoring guards, right? Darren Fox is a scoring guard. Dylan Harper obviously a scoring guard. Um I don’t know how often um the He was a rookie last year. Why am I blanking? Stefan Castle. Yeah, we’ll have the ball in his hand. Rookie of the year, Wes. That’s right. Uh, so we’ll see what we’ll see how they get Webbeanama the ball again this year. I think the the Fox WBY pick and roll will be fine, but we only saw them for five games last season. So, look, they’re going to have a better record probably than they did last year as long as everybody is healthy. But I do think that the Chris Paul loss is a is more of a loss than I think people are giving it credit for. Yeah, I don’t know if I’m that broken up about Chris Paul being gone just because the team wasn’t that good, but it does definitely raise the requirements for like what the other players are going to do and how the offense is going to be initiated. And we assume well Jarren Fox is just going to step into that role and be a big part of it. When I look at their team and I love how you mentioned Lindy Waters before Dylan Harper, that’s like peak NBA podcasting. That’s great. Great job there. um when I look at their team like I am ex I am excited of course for Wimi and what this this year three could look like. I mean the steps he made last year were unbelievable and if he is MVP caliber which I think he easily could be at the very least first team allNNBA consideration if he plays all the games which of course is a it’s a huge part of talking about the Spurs like does win is a win be 65 games at least in the regular season to win those awards. Um, I do think they they have some things to of course sort out in the back court, even with no Chris Paul, you know, figuring out how Stephen Castle fits in with Dylan Harper and and with Dear Fox. The one thing I actually like beyond Wimi when I look at the roster, I was like, I’m just guessing about starters and I don’t know who it’s going to be. Let’s I thought maybe Luke Luke Cornet would start alongside Wimby in the front court and then you have Darren Fox and then it’s like I don’t know probably Devin Vel and maybe Steph Castle maybe Harrison Barnes keeps that starting spot that he did so well in last year but like let’s say Steph Castle starts and then like if your bench is like Kell Johnson, Kelly Olen, Harrison Barnes, Dylan Harper, that’s an elite bench. Like to me that looks like a team that goes deep into the playoffs bench because you have like the things ahead of him. Now I do have questions about what the offense is going to look like. Like all right Mitch Johnson step up now. Can we actually get some pick and rolls with Wimby? Can we maybe not just have him jacking threes the whole time? Um like what’s that going to look like? But they have enough bodies like Kell Johnson is like a six-man bench scorer. if Devin Vel can maybe show a little more of the promise. I feel like he showed a couple years ago like they do have a deep enough squad where if Wimby elevates himself into that MVP conversation where you’re like this supporting cast is ideal and then I guess you want to talk about Darren Fox is Darren Fox like two years ago De’ar Fox, right? Can he make a jump shot Darren Fox? uh or or or a three-pointer more specifically on those jump shots. And then that I think is what’s is what’s going to elevate the Spurs into maybe winning this division. This team needs to grow up. You know, it’s time it’s time to grow up. Like I think the first couple of years of Webyama’s career were great. It was preschool and kindergarten and everybody’s having fun and women’s doing cartwheels all over the court and just kind of doing whatever he wants. And now it’s time to sit in a desk and do the homework. And you mentioned before like is the offense going to be anything other than just give Webinama the ball and let him just do whatever he wants with it. We’ll see. And that’s sort of why again I went back to the Chris Paul point there. I’m not trying to say that no Chris Paul means that their their offense is going to fail. It just means no Chris Paul means that this offense is going to clearly need a very clear structure. And we don’t know if Mitch Johnson is going to instill that structure. It feels like it should be easy enough. Darren Fox ran pick and roll over and over and over again with Damata Sabonis in Sacramento when that was working. They got to the playoffs in the Western Conference. If you basically just replace Sabonis with Victor Webbyama and get De’Arren Fox back at that, then it was just it’s not a hard leap to make in your mind to be like, “Okay, that team should be in the playoffs again.” And I think the depth is fine. I do have a a few questions about who fills out that wing spot. It feels like there’s a lot of guys who could play center and power forward and a lot of guys who could play the one and the two. Not a ton of guys who I love playing the three outside of Vel. Um, but we’ll see. I think that you could patch that stuff together and when you’ve got Womeno and all eight feet of them out there somewhere, that makes up for a lot of lacking in space. So, you can play three guards at a time and you can do a lot of creative things. Also, with you, I think Cornet starts. Yeah. I would say just also with their roster, the way it’s built, and this is the huge benefit to having a superstar on a rookie scale contract, you do have all those theoretically movable pieces where let’s package a Kellen Johnson and a Harrison Barnes and bring in somebody else or or a position, a player who who plays a position maybe of more need. let’s use that Kelly Olen contract we picked up, you know, and package it. So, like they could move some things around if they see what they have. If they’re like, “Oh, wow. We are clicking with De’arren Fox and Wimi and oh, by the way, Dylan Harper is looking amazing. Uh, we could possibly sell off Stephen Castle it perhaps sell him at a high coming off that that rookie year.” Or like you’re like, “Hey, Jeremy Sohan doesn’t actually like he’s fun, but doesn’t actually fit what we need.” It’s like they do have a lot of optionality. Um it’ll be interesting to see if they decide, you know, we could make a splash and and trade for somebody else or I mean again we so young that like they could just take it easy which honestly is why before when I talk about the Spurs I I wasn’t that excited about Darren Fox. I know it didn’t cost him that much but it’s just like yeah Wimby just maybe chill see what happen like see what happens for a while. your team is so young. I don’t know if you needed to go ahead and trade and get this guy like you might could have waited and got him in free agency but who knows like so but now he’s locked down and so the Spurs are good just a lot of questions kind of and maybe it sorts himself out where like Kell Johnson has a bounceback year or Vel one of those guys seizes the job like we’re just asking you to be better than Harrison Barnes which like you weren’t like Harrison Barnes was great last year uh you know like um so yeah they they but they do have a lot of quality depth where a lot of these teams where I’m like I wish so I wish the Rockets had a had a Kell Johnson just a guy just like a random guy who can give you 20 some night who can make some shots and take some pressure off of the defense if they’re really packing everything in. And so uh yeah actually I I like where the Spurs are at and it’s just a big question of of how much does uh does Wimi take a bigger step forward and then what’s the guard situation like how’s that going to shake out? and should mention that Carter Bryan can also play the three if if if he pops as a rookie. Also, I don’t think we mentioned Did Did you mention Julian Champini? I adore him. He’s awesome. Like, he’s awesome. And he’s a guy where it’s like, hey, that might be your starting three right there. Uh, sorry everybody else, get in line. This guy is a he’s one of those connective pieces. And maybe I’m going too deep down the the NBA podcaster hole, but like that’s one of those guys where I’m like, “No, no, he’s a perfect fifth starter, right?” He’s like a he’s a younger Derrick Jones Jr., it feels like he’s like ready to kind of just step into that role. Um I think that this team could be one of the best five defenses in the league this year. Um if you’ve got Cornet and drop and you’ve got Victor Wyama essentially playing the Giannis role where he’s just wreaking havoc wherever he wants, I love that for WBY. And then obviously you could toggle into lineups with WBY at the five. You know, you could play Cornet and drop, you could play Olen and drop kind of if you really want to do that. Uh I I like that they added bodies to make sure that WBY doesn’t always be having isn’t always having to play center. Like he could play power forward. That’s the way you utilize versatility is you get versatile lineups. You get players who can kind of unlock different kinds of lineups. So if they’re top fiveish in defensive rating and they’re getting enough offense from Dear Fox, Victor Webinyama, who is a 21 point per game scorer the first two years of his career, you get Fox, you get enough three-point shooting from these other spots. Dylan Harper is a a guy who maybe, you know, goes off every few games and you can get like a top 15 offense, then that’s probably a playoff team in the West, but I don’t want to uh I don’t want to get to our predictions too soon. Let’s go to the Pelicans. Yeah. Um I hated their offseason. Yeah, I do think they got better. Just kind of sticking to our outline here. Well, how what what’s the standard that we’re holding them to? I mean, just based on last year because last year Yeah. I mean, anything’s better. Correct. That’s it. Sure. 100%. Yep. That’s where So, that’s where I’m at. I I hated their off seasonason. I think they’ll win more games this year. Um, really quick recap. They add Jordan Pool in the CJ that weird CJ McCollum trade. They add Jordan Pool, Sadique Bay, Cavon Looney. They draft uh Derek Queen and Jeremiah Fears. They lose CJ McCollum in that trade. Uh they trade away Kelly Ool Lin. and they uh they technically lose Bruce Brown who was only there for like 23 games or something like that. So, um that was essentially the off seasonason. Zion Williamson played 30 games last year. It just is if Zion plays more and if they’re relatively more healthy, then they’ll probably be better. They they probably they did add talent when you kind of take all of their moves in totality, they did add talent. How that talent fits together, who knows? like this is another one of those teams it’s like wow it feels like you have a lot of this you have a ton of power forwards and you don’t really have much of anything else. Yeah. I mean they’re a weird squad and when you get into the way they acquired their talent that seems to be where everyone gets the most upset talking about their all season. I mean, just thinking about them, I called the Joe Dear that that that deal to trade away an unprotected 2026 pick to move up to get Derrick Queen. I said it’s worse than the Luca trade. I mean, no, because that trade didn’t like kill business in a major American city like like like when we when we take it outside of the actual basketball court where it’s like like you you lowered the value of a franchise in the NBA. Do you know how hard that is? Like like it’s impossible to do that for New Orleans. It doesn’t get lower, right? Yeah. Um it is we can nitpick that comparison. I I think when you think about it being the like the fact that the Bucks pick was in it too is like that part’s it is kind of wild. Um, if we look at their squad and imagine good luck with health, and this is not even including Dejonte Murray returning from the Achilles terror, they’re intriguing. I don’t know how it really makes a ton of sense. Um, also, they were kind of bad even when they had their better players together last year, which was so strange because they were good two years ago, right? Trey Murphy is a guy who I adore and he might be special and if I’m the Rockets, I might trade all my matching salary uh if I could and any picks that weren’t bolted down. Like that’s a guy where I’m like, you know what, he can play the two. I’m fine with that. Um but like when you think about Zion and Herb Jones and Trey Murphy, you’re like, okay, that’s that’s a thing. That’s that’s a pretty solid starting point. And then you’re like, Jordan P’s a scorer. I guess he’s starting and then when you go beyond that it just gets weird where you’re like I don’t you don’t actually have a point guard outside of José Alvarado. Is he starting? I mean is Jordan Pool just going to be the nominal point guard and then you know you drafted a shoot first guy and fears and Jordan Hawkins was like oh yay they traded CJ McCollum. Oh no we got Jordan Pool and another guy drafted higher than me is going to play my same position of chucking shots. Um, and then the front court where it’s like Eve’s Missy was doing weird stuff at summer league and he had a promising rookie season, but it’s like who’s who’s going to give him he needs someone just to throw him the lobs? I like it’s the ball in Zion’s hands and he’s going to is he going to throw the lobs to I think it’s a lot of point Zion. The problem that you get into when you get into the when you tilt your offense all the way into point Zion, which Willie Green has talked about wanting to do is he gets hurt and the entire offense goes to and that’s it. And I that’s the part that I can’t square. It’s like, okay, well, Zion could be he can run our offense, but then when he misses games, we’re just handing the ball to Jordan Pool and letting him do what he did in Washington, which was turn the ball over a lot and make bad decisions. Yeah. I mean, I feel like this might be this might be too swayed by fantasy basketball. I feel like Jordan P was like pretty all right last year. And again, may maybe it’s just like, man, he really bumped his steels category last year. That’s helping me out a lot. So like I mean maybe again the another change of scenery for Jordan Pool, but like it’s just a weird squad and they seem to be as a franchise a little bit cursed with just injury luck yearover-year and I mean Zion obviously maybe the forefront of that. So I I don’t even know what expectations are. I would love to know internally like that like if it’s Joe Dumour’s Dumars or Troy Weaver like the people making the basketball decisions like what are their expectations for this year? Do they look at this team and say, “Well, they traded their pick next year.” So, the expectation is to be a part. Are they saying we’re going to win 40 45 games by trading your pick? You are insinuating that. I think absolutely. And I mean, maybe what’s the Dejant? Do we have a Dejante Murray injury timeline? I think maybe I think it was in January or something last year. Yeah. So, maybe he comes back mid-season. Yeah, maybe it’s back in January or the All-Star break and then it’s like starting DeJonte Murray with Jordan P. There’s certain lineups where I’m like, is Sadique play Sadi Bay playing the two? And I think the Sadique Bay acquisition actually has the potential to be pretty good if he could just stay healthy. He’s another one of those guys. It’s it’s a it’s a it’s a buy low, although it wasn’t a buy low, but it’s like his contract is so low. Yeah. You know, like I I kind of like Sadiq Bay as as like what’s the right way to couch that phrase? If he’s gonna be your ninth best player, I like that. All right. You know, like he’s a guy who competes at least he competes more on offense than than defense by a long stretch. Also, uh easily the highest easily the highest career high among all Pelicans. I’m pretty sure he he’s got a 50-pointer in his in his uh Zion has never done that. Zia’s never gone for 50. I think so. Yeah. I don’t think Jordan Pool’s never gone. Yeah. Yeah. Sadiq Bay the only Pelican to score 50 points in an NBA basketball game. That’s got to be worth something. Uh maybe that’s why they traded. They’re like, he could probably do this every night. Um, so I’m trying to figure out, okay, if you think if you’re if you’re if you’re the Pelicans front office and you’re like, we’re going to trade that 2026 pick, we got to go get Derek Queen, which again makes so little sense to me because if he was that valuable, then you could have just drafted him at six instead of having to move a pick. If you thought he was going to be the next best center in the league or whatever, like I just I can’t figure that part of it out. But whatever. Let’s just imagine where the Pelicans front office. We have totally talked ourselves in our tal we’ve talked ourselves into us being a playoff team for sure. We feel really good about it. I’m trying to figure out why. How do I see it? Because Jordan Pool I I don’t dislike Jordan Pool as a basketball player, but I also understand that he’s on the musician schedule, right? It’s an every other year thing. He comes out with an album every two years. Okay. One year on, one year off. Last year wasn’t an on year for Jordan Pool. Jordan Pool came out with an album last year. He’s taken this year off. Um, so I don’t that that makes me nervous. Zion’s health obviously makes me nervous. But let’s just say Zion plays 65 games. What if Zion’s on the musician schedule? This is an album year for Zion. Maybe. Yeah, it’s a that’s maybe they timed this out perfect. They got dueling musicians, dueling banjos here. Um, so maybe Zion is on and on year. Maybe he’s coming out with an album this year and he plays 65 plus games. And if he does that, they could just be awesome cuz Zion could just carry him. And Zion is doing all the he’s I I’ve talked about this, but he’s on my uh he’s on my uh all aha moment team. Just every summer there seems to be an aha moment with Zion Williamson. He’s just like, “Well, now I’m not eating gluten. Now I’m I’m It’s like I’m working out in Texas like non-stop. I’m doing two days.” Like, “All right, cool.” Um maybe it works. So if Zion’s there, then you could see how all this stuff kind of clicks into place. There is a ton of players on this team that you kind of like. So, there’s not going to be a ton of lineups out there where you’re just like, “That guy shouldn’t be on the court.” I think I think my hesitation with this Pelicans team where again, if they’re all healthy, you could you could talk yourself into them being competitive. I I can’t do what you just kind of did, which is envision a scenario where they’re really good. Like, even if Zion’s healthy, I’m like, “But who are the Outside of Trey Murphy, who are the complimentary pieces where you’re like, if Zion’s playing at a at a first team allNNBA level, who are the complimentary pieces that you fit around him, like Jordan P isn’t really the guy I would put with him. Unless you think unless you think Zion is Draymond and not in an offthe- court sense, more of an on the court sense for Jordan Pool where now we can let P take more off the catch shots the way that we when it was the Pool party lineups in the 2022 run. Again, I’m just trying to figure out what the the Pelicans are thinking here. I’m trying to talk myself into it the way that they’ve clearly talked themselves into this. I mean, if Dererick Queen is good and we have like a Derek Queen Zion front court and like Eves Missy is just back to some kind of bench lob catching role. Even then, I’m like shooting with pool. I mean I mean I think I think I think the the Zion at the five if you can go Herb at the three if you could get enough rebounding from someone at the three then maybe I don’t know could you play Yeah. trying to piece together a fiveman lineup where I’m like, “Yes, that’s that could that that could win if everything goes right, you could win 50 games.” I just don’t see it with this Pelicans roster. And so I Yeah, I don’t know what the long-term I don’t know like what are the goals? Are you trying to get Derek Queen and and Jeremiah Fear’s minutes this year? Because that’s going to hurt you, I think, when it comes to the Encore product as far as and your draft pick which you gave away. And so I don’t know. Also, there’s just no there’s no like table setter point guard and maybe I’m just stuck in the past not being able to concerned. I don’t know who makes the good decisions on the good decisions on this team. I don’t know like if you don’t you don’t necessarily need to have that table setting point guard if there’s another player on your team who can make those good decisions and be reliable. And I just don’t see that player on the roster. It’s like who I mean I’m talking I’m not even talking about like a Brevin Knight differential like those don’t exist anymore. I just mean literally who can dribble on your team and it’s and it’s not that many guys when like is Zion bringing the ball up when when Jordan Pool’s not like there’s a lot of guys you don’t you literally don’t even want the ball in their hands and it seems like with all these mouths to feed with these shooters with these me first players guys who don’t you know traditionally set other guys up you need just one guy or a couple of guys beyond. I’m not ignoring you, Jose Alvarado, right? I just don’t think that’s the role. It might be a little bit bigger. He’s one of those guys who ends up playing more because the Pelicans need somebody to play that role and now he’s actually playing over a better player. It it that it kind of feels like that’s where this roster. He also can’t stay on the court, right? And that’s he’s just another maybe he’s just he’s also suffering from the whatever New Orleans voodoo curse exists out there. He’s another one of those guys who’s just always a little bit banged up. But again, he’s a bench guy. He’s not like a starter. He’s He’s a He’s a popular fun bench guy to come in and get some quirky steals and make some big shots and be fun. He’s not the guy you’re hitching your wagon to to be like, “Let’s let’s go win a playoff series.” This is one of the most confusing teams in the league. I I kind of just wrote that they got better. Who knows? Here’s another confusing team. I can’t figure out the Mavericks. If we’re trying to decide whether or not they got better better or worse, I guess it’s the sort of the same question of well since when since the Kyrie injury, if it’s since the Kyrie injury, okay, since this time last year, they got worse because they lost Kyrie and they lost Luca. But since the end of last season, you could argue that they got better because they add Cooper Flag and D’Angel Russell can play some minutes for you. He’s an innings leader in the regular season now. They lose Spencer Denwitty in the offseason. That’s really it. When you look about when you look at the Mavericks, the Kyrie injury, when does he come back? It doesn’t sound like they’re going to rush him back. I would never bet on Kyrie coming back sooner rather than later. He tends to take his time with injuries. Um Anthony Davis, I guess his cornea separated from his face or something. I don’t some sort of injury there that he had surgery for. So I don’t think it’s separated from his face, Wes. I don’t know what it is. It’s a cornea separation. I don’t know what that means. Okay. It’s just separated from the parts of the eye. I think it’s part of your face. If it’s leaving the face, we have a problem. Got to wear an eye patch beneath the unibrow. He has as many eyebrows as eyeballs now. Um, so, uh, I don’t know. I don’t know if the Mavs got better or worse. I And you know what? I I don’t want to stick to the structure too much because when we’re talking about Dallas, it’s just all up in the air. To me, it’s a similar problem to New Orleans in that who’s running the offense here. And specifically with Dallas, who’s getting to the basket? Like DLO is not a go to the basket guy. He replaces Kyrie in position. Kyrie gets to the rim, can kick out the shooters, all that. Do is more of like I’m going to move kind of east west and sort of slide my way into the mid-rangeish area and then I’m probably going to take a shot from that kind of spot. Uh Anthony Davis is not a guy who’s going to drive. Nobody else on the roster is really doing it. And so I go back to the guy they drafted number one overall in Cooper Flag and I’m just looking at him on a team with a lot of experienced talent and I still think, oh, you’re going to have to do all of this. Like I think Cooper Flag as a rookie is going to have quite a bit of responsibility in terms of what he’s got what he means to that offense. Cooper Flag starts for sure. I think he has to. Okay. I don’t know where it’s like he might like Kevin Durant. He might be playing the two. Yeah, they’re they’re the strangest team when when it comes to again they’re just like the Rockets. I I love it. We could get Rockets Mavericks rivalry games where they just agree before the game. They’re like, “Hey, just just each team gets one guard.” Okay. So, you we’ll play D’Angelo. Maybe maybe it’ll be a a Jaden Hardy night, you know? But like these these squads don’t have guards. And it’s like that that’s wild to even try that. It’s so weird. I mean, after they after they got unbelievably lucky with the Cooper flag lottery thing, after they were given this gift from the basketball gods, to rebuild their fan base after the the Donich debacle, everything they did since then, it’s just it’s it’s not like bad. I think it’s a little bit confusing just because the roster that was left over after the Donic trade was a roster built for Luca Donuch, you know, like you have all these lob catchers on the squad. It was this it was the setup for like Luca’s like this is these are the guys I like and this is how we do it. So now when they won Cooper Flag, it’s like this is not who’s the team built around and it seems to be kind of not maybe it’s built around defense because defense quote unquote wins championships. um according to the decision makers. Like it’s weird to me that this offseason they didn’t pivot into moving some of those other bodies. Maybe they will once they see what they have in the regular season. And I’m not even like strongly arguing that you should like trade Anthony Davis and start over, which that that’s one argument you hear a lot. You’re like, “Oh, you got Cooper Flag now. Let’s just build organically around Flag. You could trade Davis for a massive hall.” Yep. Like I even understand keeping Anthony Davis because frankly Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag together sounds incredible. That sounds amazing. As a basketball fan, I want to see that. But just when you start doing the depth chart exercise, you start looking at the players and you’re like, whoa, they got like you don’t need Lively and Gaffford, right? It’s another one of those teams where I like a lot of the players and if you kind of take a snapshot of the talent on the team in your mind, you’re like, Mavericks could make the playoffs and then you look at how this is all going to fit together and you’re like, are Mavericks going to win any games? Are they going to win games? PJ Washington like he’s still here and Naji Marshall is good and he’s still here and like these guys all play the same position and then it’s like Klay Thompson Klay Thompson can’t guard anybody. He’s essentially a four now on the team. So it’s like Yeah. Yeah. I don’t get it. I mean, getting Del Russell for nothing is great. Like, that’s that’s good. And I mean, maybe they’re depending are they hoping on like the Brandon Williams late season surge. Is he a guy? But it’s just a weird squat where it’s like when you when you listen to like Maverick’s podcast right now, the whole idea of if Jayen Hardy and Brandon Williams can pop, that really makes a difference for us. That comes up way too early in the podcast for me to be. That is the biggest cliche for all team podcasters, right? Where if I’m doing my Grizzly show, I’m like, “Guys, if Cam Spencer and Vince Williams really pop this year, you know, like that’s all the Vince Williams, everyone can do. We haven’t even got to the Grizzlies yet.” But like that’s the thing. Every team has them. Every team has We’re like We like guys if if Drew Smith really pops this year. And the question is, how soon in the show does that come up when you’re discussing your team’s chances? Right. If it comes up late, it’s like if it’s like a and if this happens, then hey, but if that’s coming up in the first 10 minutes, I think you’re you have a problem. And for Dallas, it feels like that keeps coming up in the first 10 minutes. So, I don’t know. To me, it’s Kyrie is so important to this team in terms of just having a guy who could facilitate and create. And they sign him to the three-year contract. They bring him back. I’m just I know he’s been awesome since he got to Dallas, but he’s hurt. It’s a major injury. What does he look like when he comes back? It just feels like there’s a lot of a lot of eggs in that Kyrie Irving basket and that makes me a little queasy. But again, if you’re if you’re the Mavericks, maybe you don’t really care. I know that they’re keep talking about like short window. We’re open we’re title window right now competing for championship. Maybe at the end of the day, what really matters is just getting Cooper Flag as many reps as possible with a pretty solid defense and just be like, “All right, go to town Cooper Flag. Figure this out. Growing pains, etc.” And do all that. Um, so we’ve talked about every team except for your Memphis Grizzlies, and they were the only team that I wrote down as had having gotten worse. And I what? I don’t even know how much worse they got. Oh, okay. Sing sing me this song. Tell me everything. So, they lose Desmond Bane. That’s the big trade. Yeah. They also lose uh Luke Canard, Jay Huff. They add Ty Jerome, Contavius Caldwell Poked, Jock Landale, and they draft Cedric Coward. They technically got worse. I don’t think they got that much worse. I love Ty Jerome for this Grizzlies team. He is the exact kind of point guard who just works in Memphis always. He is just like a nononsense, lowmaintenance, get the job done point guard, a Taius Jones, a guy like that. Those guys always just work. He could play with John Marant. He can come in out when Jarant misses games. He can come in and run your offense a little bit. Those players just seem to work. I think KCP will have a bounceback year. He was in a very tough situation for him in Orlando. He’s not gonna be Desmond Bane. Why was he in a tough situation in Orlando? I think he was asked to do too much. Okay. They needed him to knock down shots and he did not. Right. I think he was playing alongside a couple really good I mean I know Vagner and Beno missed a lot of time. Suggs missed a lot of time. Yeah. It was just it just felt like there was a lot on him. There was nobody nobody to create a shot for him. He he plays well with LeBron. He plays well with Joic. And in Memphis, if John Morance’s out there, J will be able to create shots for KCP. Um, so, you know, Canard wasn’t really part of the rotation, Jay Huff was kind of out of it by the end of the year. Well, I mean, I don’t care about the the the the deeper cuts. Yeah. Who cares? Luke Canard, Jay Huff, who cares? No, Desmond Bane was awesome. Desmond Bane with Ty Jerome and KCP. You are awesome. aggregate. You’re trying to say Ty Jerome who was um let go for Sam Merrill and KCP who could not make a jump shot last year. So you think Memphis got a lot worse then? Okay, maybe I’m playing devil’s advocate. I don’t know. It’s hard to say. They they have removed themselves from I think the interesting tier of NBA teams. Like despite the fact that they ended the year on a swoon, which is all anyone remembers, you know, like they they were horrible. They trade deadline. They salaried up to Demarcus Smart with the first round pick. They they got rid of Jake Laavia and they they were having weird stuff going on behind the scenes. It seemed like they started redoing the offense again. Like last year they put in that wheel system with like the no picks, the no screens and then John Mar maybe didn’t love it and then they started doing it a little bit differently. Jiren Jackson Jr. was way less effective near the end of the year because they were doing different kind of things with John Mar and Zack Edy. Job was happy but the team was much worse and then the basketball and so the season ends terribly. You forget that the Grizzlies I think had like the sixth best net rating in the NBA last year. They were one of a handful of you know it was like most of the year. Yeah, they were they were top 10 in offense and defense like all year. It was like them and the Thunder and the Cavs and the Celtics. Yep. So, you forget it all because the season ended so poorly and then you’re down by I I’ve blocked out totally erased game one against the Thunder. I know we were losing by a lot. I don’t know the exact number anymore. You just remember the one that they own. So them them saying them coming to grips with the fact that they weren’t close to the Thunder was good. As a Grizzlies fan and podcaster, I’m like, “Thank you. I’ve been saying this for a while.” Like you did not they did not maximize the final years of their big three of Jiren and Jaw and Desmond Bane. If if you pull every fan of every team in the league, y and say for the most, and there’s definitely exceptions, but hey, you can get four first round picks for your third best player, would you do it? Most fan bases would say yes, right? Oklahoma City would not. Certain teams would not. Most I would say 80% of NBA fan bases would say, “Yep, four first round picks. That is literally an offer we cannot refuse.” And I I completely understand it. And the most convincing argument that I tell myself, the way that like I make the most peace with losing Desmond Bane is the whole argument where I’m like, “Okay, if they if they literally are never going to pay the tax,” you know, like if they’re literally been like, “Oh, we can’t afford to add any more good players.” And if that’s the case and if they’re if they were sort of capped out at like making the playin, okay, if my option is we make the play in with Desmond Bane or we make the playin with four first round picks, okay, give me the four first round picks. And I get it, but that’s a sad I feel like that’s a sad place to be as an NBA fan where you’re like, “Oh, we’re actually just not going to pay to compete. So, we have to try to compete with this other way with the acquisition of younger, cheaper talent, which again is what everyone’s going to. I mean, the Celtics have to blow up their squad or whatever.” And if that’s where we’re going, complaint and it’s a fair concern. I guess the concern is are we ever going to pay for a good team or are we just going or are we going to look at a team like Indiana that already decided yes we’ve got Hallebertton we’ve got Seakum and then we’ve got not max players filling out the rest of the roster and that might be just where it’s going then I think Memphis said we’ve got Jaw we got Jiren we can’t have three guys on maxes we could only have two and and they didn’t have to trade one of their two best players to get off of one of them and that’s that’s 100% what their decision was okay um but then you have the other part of it. Like clearly John Morant is the Grizzlies best player. Mhm. In a vacuum. Mhm. But like he’s out there. Yeah. When he’s out there and healthy and and that that becomes this thing where like this is not playing 2K, you know, there’s more to it. And there’s also more to it as far as marketing wise. This is the thing that Nico Harrison just apparently didn’t comprehend at all. Like didn’t hold a meeting with the marketing team. Yeah, there there’s a relationship between the entire city and the economics of the entire city and Luca Donic in the same situation with John in Memphis. He’s the most popular player in Chris’s franchise history by a mile and the most marketable player in franchise history by a mile. But if you wanted a more dependable player, it would have been easier theoretically to build probably a team around let’s have Jared and let’s have Desmond Bay and let’s go try to get a third guy, right? Like that’s not really that’s not even a thing teams can do, right? Because you have your your meal ticket is Jarant, right? And you have to just go under the the hand you were dealt is we just have to get John right and build a team around Jarant and if Jamar’s healthy, we’re going to be good. We’re going to be a playoff team. We’re going to be competitive and that’s probably our best route. Our It’s a low probability any team wins the NBA title. Our most likely way of doing that is keeping Jaw, having him play at the peak of his powers, and then you hit a home run with a Cedric Coward in the draft or whoever is the next draft pick. Or you do like the Pacers and you hit home runs with the Aaron Nmith contract and and getting Nimh hard and you just find the right pieces where you fit under the tax and it all works out and you’re one game away from winning the title. And again, that’s what the Grizzlies did. So I mess around with you. I think they’re I think they’re significantly worse, but as far as their ceiling is much lower. Maybe maybe this is nitpicking. Um their actual probably total win total. Yeah. You know, uh I Well, actually, I mean, they won 48 They won 48 games last year, right? And how much is Yeah. How many win shares is he responsible for? You know, man, a lot. I would say he’s the he’s he was the grown-up in the room, too. He was the leader as far as I could tell from someone not in the locker room. As far as I can tell, he is the was the most dependable um guy as far as leadership among the players. He was the vocal leader. I don’t think that’s necessarily what John does. It’s not necessarily what Jiren Jackson Jr. does. I think Desmond was the more mature leader for that team. There’s a leadership void and losing Taylor Jenkins because now it’s a lot on his solo who goes four and five in nine games. Um, so hardly a large sample to judge them from, but you lose Desimate. I think that’s a fair concern with Memphis, which is why it’s really hard to place when we eventually get to whether or not which teams make the playoffs. I have a really hard time figuring out the Memphis Grizzlies. Um, overall, back to the point you made about like the team building part of it. You trade Desmond Bane for four first round picks. You do lower your ceiling. It would have been easier to say like, let’s keep Bane and Jiren Jackson Jr. and just try to build like a really strong roster around them. Maybe that would have been an option. Eventually though, if you come to the conclusion in Memphis that you know what, we just can’t be in the Jawar business anymore for whatever reason, we just and you and you you are forced to trade Jaw, then at that point, you’re kind of entering a rebuild phase anyway. And if you’re going to reenter that rebuild phase or retool phase, however you want to frame it, it’s nice to have four first round picks from a Desmond Brain trade if you’re entering that phase anyway. Right. And the the nervousness though that it gives me is like when you when you get those first round picks coming in and also by the way it we can now say I think it’s two first round picks and Cedric Coward because they used two of the four already. So now we’re down now now we’re down to two. We have Cedric Coward two picks and a swap. So like it’s still again it was a huge return. But you you also have sort of soft launched the idea of a tearown. You know, you you you you’ve gone from you’ve given it you’ve given this a little bit of a taste. Uh because Zach’s hurt. Zack Edit had offseason ankle surgery. Jiren Jackson Jr. had turf toe surgery after signing his big extension. Zach is going to miss the beginning of the year and we don’t know how long he’s going to miss. you have soft launched the idea of um hey we’re we started our season five and six and also now in November our schedule is very hard which in reality the Grizzly schedule in November is very very hard then you’ve hit the hey guys it’s Christmas and we’re seven and 12 or however many games you like you start thinking you know what the best way to win a title in Memphis might be to skip this year and to get a lottery pick and we’re also going a root against the Suns because we might get their lottery pick too. And so I feel like you’ve soft launched the idea and this might not even be a John trade. This might be like we’ll just we’ll try another gap year and like like re retool that way. So like that that again makes me nervous where the the flip side to that. The other side to that is well what if you had Desmond Bane, Jiren Jackson Jr. and John Morant and actually spent around the edges and filled it out. And because we’ve seen this team with those three guys, they were great. They were the two seed in consecutive seasons uh in the West and they had a very competitive the one playoff run they had where Steven Adams and Brandon Clark were healthy, they were very very good, lost a close series to the Warriors. So, I don’t know. But they made their decision and maybe they were on the forefront of understanding, hey, all NBA teams are not going to pay this tax now. So, we’ll just we’ll try to build out around our two guys and the two guys we pick, John, Jiren. Um, let’s just we’ve already kind of done a lot of the individual player categories, but let’s just jump right into our offseason preview part of this. Let’s rank them. Let’s rank these five teams uh top to bottom. Um, I’ll give you my ranking and you can just tell me where you disagree. Okay. I’ve got Houston number one. Yeah. Sounds like we both agree on that. Yeah, I agree on that. And this is where it gets hard. Yeah. This is where Well, you put you put in there in the show document the the how many teams make the playoffs. And I’m like three or four, but I don’t know which ones, right? You know, like probably probably three feel safe, but I don’t know which ones. Yeah. But Houston the safest pick, I think, to win the division. I’ve got Houston at the top. I have New Orleans at the bottom. I’ve got positions two, three, and four pretty interchangeable. I ultimately settled on San Antonio, Memphis, Dallas in that order. Yeah, that’s fair. To it, I will say, and it might be the fan in me, even though I get feedback a lot from Grizzlies fans that apparently I’m the guy who’s the most down on the Grizzlies most often. Um, I’m just I’m a pragmatist. I guess they need fans. Okay. I would probably lean the Grizzlies having a better season than the Spurs under proof of concept that I feel like I’ve seen Jiren and Jaw and different permutations of players under the Grizzlies have a good defense and win regular season basketball games. Wim is great. Wimby onoff numbers great. the Spurs have been humiliating uh without Wimi the last two years and like where’s my proof of concept that it’s going to be that much better. Um so I do think with Tai Jerome in there for the Grizzlies with knowing Jiren with KCP if he can bounce back. I mean we didn’t mention Jaylen Wells. Jayen Wells you know was was a great find last year in the draft. Like the Grizzlies have some depth and enough good pieces where I’m like I I I’d be surprised if they didn’t win 40 games unless it was that situation where like the season starts badly and they pull the plug and and because of that I feel like I would lean maybe this the the Grizzlies finishing second. But we’re we’re splitting hairs here. I I strongly considered it like I I really considered and you know what honestly if Taylor Jenkins were still the coach and I’m not even saying that the firing was wrong. I just know him. I’m more comfortable with them and they won a bunch of games regular season games with Taylor Jenkins. I just don’t know about the Isolo piece and I Right. Right. I mean who put him in the who’s the who’s the better coach to Iselo or Mitch Johnson. Right. Anyone know the answer? They’re lying. No. And I don’t know what do those I don’t know what those guys do. And so I was just like yeah when he takes another leap and he’s in the MVP race. They could win 43 or 44 games. Maybe Memphis drops off in a weird kind of who’s this head coach? We’re trying to figure this out. No Desmond Bane. They drop. But like I said, I strongly considered the Grizzlies for that second spot. I really I didn’t know what to make of Dallas like we already talked about. So I kind of just have them sliding in under one of San Antonio and Memphis. But I think that’s pretty safe. And then in terms of the teams that make the playoffs, I have Houston making it I think as one of the top three seeds, top three or four seeds in the West. Um I’ve got San Antonio and Memphis kind of firmly in my playin mix. Yeah. And then I have Dallas as a maybe they can make it to the plan. The more I think about the Spurs, I actually do think if if that if that wimy to the MVP level player happens, I think I think their ceiling is higher than the Grizzlies where like because I mean Darren Fox very very good basketball player and I could I could see them if they figured out how to play defense at all without Wibby or or being better with Wimby, I could see them being like a mid50 or like a 52 win. I don’t I don’t feel like uh the Grizzlies are going to win 52 games this year. So, I think the ceiling for the Spurs is higher because of Wimby and their and just the the overall depth. There’s so many bodies. There’s fewer bodies on the Grizzlies I trust. I mean, you talked about if you could trade your third best player for four first round picks. Yeah, you’re right. People would do it. But now I look at the Grizzlies and I’m like, who’s their third best player? Is their third best player the worst third best player in the NBA? Name a team who has a worst third best player. Like the Charlotte and the Washington. Yeah, but it No, even when you go to the Charlottes and the Washingtons, you’re like, uh, I don’t know. You’re like, is who is the third best player on the Grizz? Is it Brandon Clark if healthy? I mean, I think you’d probably argue Ty Jerome now. It might be Ty Jerome now. I think Grizzlies fans were arguing between Zack Edy and Jaylen Wells. If you could pick I’m So, we didn’t even mention Jaylen Wells yet, so I’m glad you at least mentioned him. If you could pick one player to pop as the third best player on Memphis this year, who would you pick? Well, that’s an interesting like just theoretical exercise. It seems like I would then take the worst player and have them become the third best player and then everyone moves down to peg. Right. Right. Right. You know, uh I’ll say it because he’s maybe my favorite guy. Vince Williams Jr. two years ago, let’s go. In like 30 games became the NBA podcaster’s dream. Yep. where everyone was like, “Have you seen Vince Williams Jr. on the Grizzlies?” Yeah. He watched the Tara East and could run. Yeah. Yeah. So, like that guy is the make the second third effort play, you know, on each possession, the getting offensive rebounds, the ripping away, you know, getting awesome steals. He was the guy every night you’re like, he guards Steph Curry last night. Tonight he’s guarding Luka Dodic. The next night they put him on Durant. He was like the Grizzlies primary defender and he seemed like that that fifth starter perfect connective piece. And I do think based on things I’ve heard, actual intel, I think they expected a lot from him last year. Mhm. And he did not deliver. He had a hurt ankle and never got right. Him and Gigi Jackson both never got totally healthy last season. Did nothing of note and it was a big disappointment. And I think if Vince Williams Jr. could jump back up to the point where Grizz’s fans are clamoring for him to start like they were two years ago when it was like Vince Williams Jr. is better than Marcus Smart. Why isn’t Vince Williams Jr. start? You know, like that if we could go back there, I think that all of a sudden you’re you’re not going to miss Desmond Bane as much because maybe you can in the aggregate have KCP filling up. Maybe you can have more touches to Zack Ed and Jiren Jackson Jr. and Jaw and then you just make maybe a fiveman unit that makes more sense with Jaylen Wells out there and with KCP out there and with Vince Williams Jr. out there and then you’re like, “Hey, wait, this team is top three in defense again and John Morance’s making, you know, J and Jiren are going to the All-Star game and then they’re good again.” I I know that’s that’s what the team’s hoping. I’m pretty sure that’s what Zack Kleinman is hoping happens. So, if Vince maybe can make that jump back up, that would that would fix a lot of the Grizzlies woes. Vince Williams is one of the most aesthetically fun players to watch in the league, too, because he’s so textbook with his defensive stance. Like he gets into that low crouch, arms wide like a Venus fly trap or if that’s right. He’s also got crazy eyes which tell me like a little bit like he’s got that thing where like like try me and like he’s he smiles when he plays too where like he his energy was infectious and like fans loved him and I was like this guy’s amazing and it was the only bright spot of two years ago when they tanked out and everybody was hurt or suspended. I just I want Vince Williams to get in the mix for like a defensive player of the year thing to the point where the Grizzlies are pushing it and they create some sort of like merchandise and products around Vince Williams Jr. and I’m I’ll call him I call him Bug. Bug because it feels like the name of a guy you maybe are nervous to be around, but also the initials are VW. So I call him Bug. I also called him the machine cuz that was like that’s another Volkswagen thing. And so like I I interchangeably scream the machine or bug whenever he does something awesome and I like them both. So yeah, I’ll just put that out there. That’s great. Um last category here, players that we’re going to think about differently a year from now. I have maybe my longest list out of any of the division previews I’ve done so far. We don’t have to touch all of them, but because we’ve already talked about a bunch of them. Um, but the number one guy, which was a no-brainer, I think we’re going to be talking about AM Thompson a little bit differently. Maybe not we as basketball podcasters because we’re already like this guy. I would say I would say basketball podcasters now are like, who would you take in an all-time draft? It’s like a men or Charles Barkley, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like, well, I mean, a men could be anything. Charles Barkley was only the 12th best player of all time. Right. Could be it could even be a boat. Yeah. Um it’s with Aman Thompson and I I when I when all of NBA Twitter comes to the same conclusion and has the same opinion at the same time, I my contrarian comes out and I tend to be like, “All right, I’m not going to go there with you.” Right? Like I’m not going to be one of the NBA hipsters and just like buy in on this guy and be like, “Well, you know who’s actually really good?” Yeah. But every time I watch Ahmed Thompson play, I’m like, “This guy could be the best player in the freaking league.” Like I just it’s so fun if he just pops in a way that without Jaylen Green it does clear the way for him to play a little bit to just be on the ball a little bit more experiment a little bit more. It felt very last year your turn my turn between Jaylen Green and Aman Thompson. And it felt like at times Aman Thompson was almost too differential of Jaylen Green. Like he would like watch him do it and he’d be like I know I can do that better but because I’m your friend I’m going to let you do this anyway for a little while. And now without Jaylen Green there and then Ahmed man Thompson getting to have the ball in his hands more and then also learn from Kevin Durant which I think is the most underrated part of the Durant acquisition in that you talk to anybody in the league like the work ethic stuff with Durant is not just noise like that is real. I remember covering Durant and Golden State and he was it was him and Steph last people on the court for another hour after practice ended. like that stuff’s real and for Amen Thompson to get to learn from that and learn from Kevin Durant I just I think there’s so much potential for him to reach an even higher ceiling now if he starts to show that I think we’re talking about him as like I don’t know I no ceiling no ceiling on Aman Thompson all the hyperbole I’m throwing it all out there the other teammate from him of his is Alan Shenun there’s a lot of good stuff happening with Turkey right now Kevin Durant is hyping him up if Shenun just takes another leap too we could be talking about him differently yeah I really struggle with this question just because there’s so many there’s so many like very established NBA players on these teams where like you look at the whole Mavs roster outside of Cooper Flag and you look at like maybe it is a guy like I dropped like Brandon Williams like oh that guy’s good or you know Max Christie actually became all right or whatever my list uh but like I wonder if it’s going to be one of those veterans on a team who has found either either taking a step back or or gotten even to like a higher spot. Like I think of like maybe we’ve talked a lot about Darren Fox and how I have not as much excitement about him as I had, you know, two two years ago where I’m like, “Hey man, you shot 27% from three.” Like what’s that about? You know, and and it’s like like maybe maybe it’s him with Wimby becomes the pair. Maybe it’s Jarant where people get get scared of John again. Stick to Darren Fox because I had him on my list. Uhhuh. I think we’re definitely going to be talking about him differently a year from now because right now it’s still very much like we’ll see. Yeah, we played five games together. It was kind of fun. It was kind of interesting, but we’ll see next next summer. We’re going to know he’s either a a perfect fit with Wyama and it makes sense to have him on this extension and just to play this out or Dylan Harper and Steph Castle look like they should be the back of the future and we’re talking about Darren Fox. What can you get him on the tra what could you get for him on the trade market right now? I think we’re gonna be have a very I think our conversation about Darren Fox right now is gonna be very different next summer one way or the other. Yeah, that’s a that’s a good point. Maybe I mean maybe it’s I What if Jordan Pool wins wins over everybody? What if he’s the secret to the sauce? Not me in in in New Orleans. I I I see it. I I know what’s happening. Okay. If he has a great year, it’s just going to be an off year next year. I mean like there there’s so there’s so many guys where you’re like if they put in a year it just changes the the framing around them. Zion Williamson, you know. Um but yeah, I I struggle with this one because then otherwise I just want to pick a young guy who was who was unestablished who then you can be like we can be talking differently. I mean maybe what what if it’s like negative about like maybe the Jabari Smith situation because there’s not a clear role for it’s like it’s not as clear. He came off the bench, of course, last year when when Amen Thompson joined the starting lineup, but two of their starters are gone from what they went the Rockets ended the year with with with Green and Brooks being gone. And now like who steps up and fills that role? Is it is it Reed Shepard? We’re talking about differently a year from now because he fills that role. I mean, but like you you have Dorian Finny Smith’s there also and like all these guys to take these minutes. Tory Een is still there just like Jabari Smith Jr. get pushed out of even the rotation further. And then this contract where a lot of people are pretty cool with, it’s like, oh, actually we should try to move him for something that that works out a little bit better. So maybe he’s a guy we’re talking about a lot differently a year from now. Is there another level for Jiren Jackson Jr. to get to? How good do you people want him to be? This is sort of the conversation we have in Miami about Bam. It’s like, okay, top 20 to 30 guy by any estimation. Yeah. AllNBA perennial AllNNBA candidate, man. Defensive player of the year candidate every single year. What is And so I get this question all the time. Can Bam get better? So I’m asking you the same version of it. Can Jiren Jackson Jr. get better? He was awesome for the last I would say there’s a couple of things. I I won’t I won’t do my entire Jiren Jackson Jr. spiel, okay? Because we’ve been podcasting for a while, but Jiren, yes, he could improve. Of course, I think the biggest thing it’s it’s not rebounding. Sorry guys. It’s not even the fouling, frankly. I think it is. This is This has now become, I think, a legitimate issue that I worry about. It’s his playoff performance. Playoffs are tricky to analyze because by nature, it’s a small sample size. And so, like any small sample size, you’re like, “This guy can’t shoot in the playoffs.” And then he has two games where he goes like six out of eight from three. And you’re like, “This guy’s 48% in his career in the play.” You know, it’s like like it swings wildly. But Jiren has a run of horrific postseason basketball games like stretch out over years uh on the offensive end where maybe in the when the other team is able to game plan more specifically for him. He’s not seeing the defense. He’s going up against double teams. He’s not passing the ball. He’s not making his shots. And again, maybe it’s just a small sample size, but this has become a thing that actually worries me where I’m like that could definitely get better. He could always be a better passer. He’s not a very good passer. He showed a lot of strides at it last year. Now that being said, and I’m worried that’s all people are going to hear. The joke I always make is how good do you want Jiren to be? Like you said, he’s a legitimate alldefensive guy. Like he’s in the defensive player of the year race every year. He’s in the blocks leaders race every year. The the stocks both. And oh, by the way, he was top 10 in the NBA in points per minute last year. He’s scoring at the same per minute rate as Giannis and Luca Donuch. And you’re telling me you have a seven foot guy who scores like over 20 a game per minute at the top of the NBA who’s also all defense. And you’re like, but why can’t he rebound more like like why can’t he be more like Brandon Bass? You’re like why? Why do you care? He’s Andre Karolinko mixed with like Adrien Dantley and you’re like but I wish he fouled a little bit less. It’s like yeah he’d be a Hall of Famer if he like if he could rebound like Bam out of Bio he’d be a Hall of Famer and it’s like so that’s my Jiren bit. Jiren might Jiren might impact regular season winning more like as much as anybody in the NBA. I consider criticism of Jiren Jackson Jr. to be like are you watching Grizzlies games? I don’t just mean the one ESPN game a year where like Draymond baited him into that extra foul. Yeah. Yeah, he fouls a lot, but it’s still like the foul stuff’s a little bit overblown. I’m more concerned now about like, hey, man, when when teams are double teaming you in the postseason and they know your patented moves, can you still score over them? Because some of the playoff numbers have been pretty grizzly. Not Grizzly, the the mascot, the gr. Um, how many national TV games do the Grizzlies have this year? 10, I think. That’s a lot. We’re on NBC, baby. I don’t think the Grizzlies have ever played on NBC. I mean, I don’t know. Like, there used to be, you know, it used to be the Grizzlies would get 10, but like six were NBA TV. Now that there’s not NBA TV, which which new network is the black sheep? Is it Is it It’s either Peacock or Amazon? It’s got to be one. Honestly, so so I think it actually might be ESPN. Oo ABC because I think the Peacock ones and Amazon ones are exclusives, right? I’m not sure what’s going on with ESPN, but I don’t know. So, but the Grizzlies do have 10. Yeah, they have they have 10 national TV games. Um, three other players that I have just on this list, and I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it. We mentioned Jaylen Wells, but if if Jaylen Wells, Derrick Lively the second, or Trey Murphy pop, maybe we’re talking about them a little bit differently. Derrick Lively has literally like legit all defense potential. He could just be like the next center that we’re having these kinds of conversations about. Jaylen Wells was awesome as a rookie. Doesn’t get talked about enough. I literally was like, will we talk about him at all? Because it still feels like we don’t talk about him at all after his rookie year. Maybe we’ll talk about him at all next summer. I thought of a better answer. I’m going to go with Derek Queen after next year. We could maybe everybody shuts up about the the the the trade or not. Or not. He barely played and sucked and they could have had the booze the boo. No, that’s what everyone’s t everyone’s already painting the worst case scenarios. I think we could change the thing. He’s a perfect front court pairing with Zion. He’s a all rookie. You know, beats out Cooper Flag because of games played or something for the rookie of the year. Trey Murphy also on my list. He might legit have all-star potential. I mean, I for me I I’m already there with Trey Murphy. Me, too. Trey Murphy is if he was in a better situation, he he he could be an all-star. He had that gamewinner against Boston last year. He was awesome. His his his jump shots and his range is so deep. They’re just they’re so lovely. I love watching them. Keith Parish, you can find him at the Fast Break Breakfast, the Grits and Grinds podcast. Thanks so much, man. This was fun. Thanks for having me, Wes. [Music]
The Southwest Division is STACKED with storylines heading into this NBA season. Wes Goldberg (RealGM Radio) and Keith Parrish (Fastbreak Breakfast, Grits & Grinds) break down every team—Rockets, Spurs, Pelicans, Mavericks, and Grizzlies—and make predictions for how the division will shake out.
We cover Kevin Durant joining the Houston Rockets, Victor Wembanyama’s year three leap, Zion’s health, Cooper Flagg’s impact in Dallas, and Memphis’ tough decision to move Desmond Bane.
00:00 – Intro & why the Southwest Division is fascinating
02:00 – NBA division realignment talk & rivalries
08:45 – Houston Rockets: Kevin Durant trade, roster fit & concerns
20:30 – San Antonio Spurs: Year 3 of Wemby, Fox pairing & depth chart questions
30:00 – New Orleans Pelicans: Confusing offseason, Point Zion & Jordan Poole fit
42:20 – Dallas Mavericks: Cooper Flagg’s role, Kyrie injury & roster imbalance
49:30 – Memphis Grizzlies: Trading Desmond Bane, Ty Jerome & KCP additions, leadership void
59:45 – Predictions: Who wins the Southwest Division?
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