Pirates Fan Forum Ep. 209 The Shutout Club

Pirates Fan Forum Ep. 209 The Shutout Club

[Music] [Music] [Music] Hello and welcome to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. Listen, the shutout club is the name of this episode. We almost had a second straight until Dowy Moretta tried to close this one out. But either way, Jim, the Dodgers got swept out of PNC Park by the lowly Pittsburgh Pirates. $333 million taken down by 87. Goddamn right. I’m proud. How do you feel, man? Yeah, you know, um more of this uh Jackal and Hyde team, right? When they’re at home, they look like they can play with anybody. Um you know, and then the road, they’re way under 500. And I mean way under 500, but yeah, man, like sweeping the Dodgers hasn’t happened in over 10 years in Pittsburgh. So, um, and they they they uh they almost kept them scoreless in the last two games. So, what’s there to complain about? What did you think of Paul SK tonight, man? I mean, he’s under two on the ERA now. Uh, 1.98, six innings, eight strikeouts. Dominant. I mean, just dominant performance. He’s the Sai Young, bro. Unless he like stubs a toe big time on the way down, right? Yeah. I mean, you’re talking what, 20ome games left. I don’t know. What’s he have even like three maybe three or four starts? Three, four starts. Um, he’d have to he’d have to do something he’s yet to do, which is pitch poorly. Yeah. Pitch poorly in like two, three or four games. I and even then um you know it’s funny you watch him and um I think you’ll know what I’m getting at when I say this Gary. It’s like he almost looks great. He almost makes great seem boring. Like that’s how good that that’s how good it is and it’s not boring. But do you know what I’m saying? Like I do get so accustomed to it and he just keeps doing it. Um, it’s like nothing we’ve ever seen, right? I mean, it’s really kind of otherworldly to watch. And I watched him tonight and I I’m just watching him struggle like hell to play c some of his pitches, especially his sweeper was like hanging up on him, right? And and it was frustrating him, but he just like gets mad and just throws one of those fast balls. He can always go back to that fast ball, you know? He he can always go back and pinpoint that and it’s enough most of the time. And it’s crazy how often he just falls back on that. It used to be the spinker he kind of went to in those situations. Not this year so much. It’s been the change up in that four seam fast. Yeah, he he’s it’s interesting to watch him too. Like what I noticed tonight is how different he goes through at bats versus guys the second and third time around. Um especially with Otani. Um just how different he’ll approach each and every at bat with guys. So, I just think that like as a hitter, man, you you’re already dealing with so much with Paul with the with the um the velocity, the pitch mix, and then he will completely switch it up on you each at bat. So, it’s like the only hope teams have against Paul Skins is you try to foul off as many pitches as you can just to get them out of the game quicker. That’s like that’s like your only approach that will work is just try to get them out of the game at like five innings if you possibly could. It’s Yeah, it’s basically like everybody has to be one of those pesky hitters that is real hard to strike out and that that kind of a lineup can give him trouble, but that there aren’t very many of those kind of lineups anymore. You know what I mean? So Milwaukee actually, oddly enough, is one of those lineups. So, you know, that might potentially, you would think, if our theory is true, is probably not a great matchup for him, Milwaukee. Yeah, Milwaukee will um badger you to death throughout a game with their at bat. So, and by not a good matchup, I mean like he might go five or six and give up a run or two, you know. Right. Right. a bad match up, a bad outing for Paul, uh we should say. Um the Dodgers though, I think they feel like they don’t really have to do a lot of changing their game, their game plan and approach. They’ve got enough hitters where they feel that they can eventually they’ll get to you. Um and they did tonight. It just wasn’t with skins in there because he wasn’t going to give them an opportunity to do so. Did you end up going down for show night and then getting disappointed that he wasn’t there? Uh yeah, you know, um so yeah, the second game, uh Shi was supposed to pitch and it turns out he was uh under the weather is all I heard that it was. He still played, but yeah, he dhed. Um that was a really interesting game to be at though because the Pirates kind of danced through the raindrops the whole game uh playing with fire with that Dodgers uh offense and they managed to find their way through it. Um it was it was a great game to be at so no complaints. I’m glad I got to one of them. Uh but yeah, it would have been fun to see Otani pitch, of course. Yeah, I I think like that’s something that doesn’t happen in baseball as often as some other sports. Like the NBA will sit guys when they travel. Baseball’s pretty good about that usually. So, it usually is something kind of unforeseen whenever you miss a matchup like that. I mean, show was the the show really as far as like the Dodgers. They don’t look like the Dodgers right now, do they? No. Um, if you looked at Mookie Bets’s uh numbers, you’d be shocked, right? Like he’s just I mean, he has an OPS in the high 600s, Gary. Like it’s like 690 something. Um, not having a Mookie Bets offensive type of year. Um, maybe the supporting cast isn’t as good as it has been in the past. Um, pitching’s been okay. Um, I think their bullpen’s still pretty good, but uh, it doesn’t strike me as a team that feels like no one no one can beat them. And I believe they’re under 500 on the road. Like this is a this is a different team than we’ve seen the Dodgers the last few seasons. It’s going to be interesting like as the playoffs start to approach and we’ll have plenty of time to discuss it because our team won’t be involved. No, we’ll have plenty of time to to to give our worthless predictions. No, but it’s it is shaping up to be interesting. This might be the year the Padres’s can can squeak it out and in some way I would feel pretty cool about it if the Pirates help them get over the top and win that damn division finally because you know what? They deserve one as they put a lot into that team to to try to compete in a division that nobody believes they should be able to compete in. So yeah. No, I I I I give them major props for at least, you know, trying. And maybe it’s if it if they can’t do it this year. Oh boy, they’ve spent a lot of money and a lot of resources and um I mean so credit to them, but boy, if you can’t do it this year, I will say the difference in baseball is is it’s not as easy just to like turn it on and flip the switch. I don’t think in baseball it works that way. Um NFL, NBA, I think you see uber talented teams kind of saving it a little bit. I don’t think baseball’s like that. I Could they Could they revert back to, hey, it’s the playoffs and we do well? Sure. But it seems more open this year than it has been. It really does. And and I just I can’t get myself to believe in Milwaukee in the playoffs. I just can’t I just don’t think there’s enough power there or pitching. And as good as they are, I think they’re regular season Giants and and then I think in the playoffs, I I got to see it to believe it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Part of me almost trusts the Cubs to do better in the playoffs. They’ve got more of that star power. They can run with a short rotation. They don’t have to get into their depth. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is a great this is a good um discussion and a great argument for how you build your team, right? Because there have been other teams that have there was one year the Minnesota was it the was it Minnesota or Seattle they won like 113 games in the regular season. They just I mean it was insane and then they lost in the first round. I think some teams are built to play well throughout a season but maybe not built to win short playoff series and the Brewers just might be in that boat. based on personnel. We’ll see. They they could be getting lucky, too, because Philly’s pitching is suffering right now. The the league’s kind of interesting. I’m just saying there there was boat race between the Giants and and the Mets to get the NL East. The Cincinnati Reds have collapsed. I mean, just collapsed. So, like they’re they’re 500 now. The the Cardinals are under 500 now. Pirates are catching up to them because they’ve been on a real hot streak. Jim, it’s actually kind of been fun to be a Pirates fan lately. I mean, what do you say we take a break and then we come back and talk about what it’s like to finally kind of have a fun part of this season that has felt like a death march. At DK Pittsburgh Sports, we take pride in coverage that connects our city’s fans to their favorite teams. Now, that connection’s stronger than ever. Introducing our all-new state-of-the-art app. Find expert inside reporting and original podcasts. Check live box scores. Track the latest stats. Chat it up with our community of thousands of fans all in one place. The new app from DK Pittsburgh Sports. Coverage that connects. All right. Hey, welcome back to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. Make sure you do subscribe to the network. Give us a like. Make sure you go and check out our friends at shopyens.com, too. We’ll do a call your shot probably from the live chat tonight. So, get a good question in there. Nice. And and we’ll make sure we star it and we’ll we’ll make that our call your shot tonight. But Jim, it’s been fun to be a Pirates fan. Couple things here. Have you been able to admit it? because I I know that’s kind of the next step for when you’re having a good time watching baseball and it’s a unpopular thing to enjoy in this town when when when the team has been not doing well collectively, but when they’re on a really good stretch, have you been able to enjoy it and kind of put it out there a little bit that you’re having fun or are you not enjoying it because it doesn’t matter? No, it it’s tough. It It’s funny. I I I do go back and forth a little bit. Um and that’s part of just simply because it’s almost feels like you can’t fully allow yourself to um uh think about what may be because simply because you don’t know what the off season’s going to bring. and we’ve all all coached ourselves to be disappointed when offseason rolls around. So, look, you can see so many of the pieces on one side being there. So, clearly that’s encouraging. Um, I don’t know about some of the the the specific players that are playing a little better if that makes me feel any better on the off on the offensive side of things. So, I go back and forth, Gary. I know that’s waffling a bit, but um I mean certainly the last couple months they’ve been a better ball club. They’ve they’ve they’ve just been better. So, I it’s tough for me. Yeah. Yeah, I I I think so much still depends on this off season and I just don’t know where things are going to be. I get what you’re saying. I I feel like in some ways what the what they’re doing on the field, it should affect things, but what they’re doing on the field um I think one of the most popular takes that I’ve seen is that they’re going to screw around and get Jarington to keep his job. like almost like what decision they make with the front office trumps whatever’s happening on the field. Like if the team’s playing really well and guys that we all openly mocked and complained about like Tommy Fam have actually turned out to be pretty damn good contributors to this team. I’m not saying we were wrong. I’m not saying that he’s been great. I’m not even saying he shouldn’t be on the hot seat. It’s been a long time, but the system’s in a better place than it’s ever been. We acknowledge on a weekly basis, we’ve never seen pitching like this ever in a system. And now some of these hitters are starting to actually come through. Like Nick Gonzalez is looks like a real piece. Horiz looks like a real piece. Yeah, they got to figure out O’Neal Cruz, but I’m not sure if that’s on them, per se. Brian Reynolds looks like Brian Reynolds, you know, now Henry Davis is in a a lot of trouble, but they got Flores that looks like an interesting option for catcher. You know, even if Henry doesn’t hold on to it, Triola’s doing something. He’s going to be a major league player next year one way or another, right? Whether whether whether it’s Yeah. playing and and hitting enough to play or just being the utility bench guy. Yeah. I mean, so like when you look around the field, I’m like, “Okay, I’m gonna get most of that back. We still have the power problem. There’s a couple guys that they a couple positions that they could potentially go fill.” And we hope they do, Jim. But how are we running a guy out of town that kind of built something pretty decent? We’re just mad that it took too long. I mean, just let’s be as honest as we can. We talked about this on the way to Altuna because we we were discussing this as a topic we were going to have to tackle at some point. At some point, we were going to have to discuss. Have we been wrong here? Well, um I will start it off by saying what I told you on our ride over to Altuna, which was I I would I hoped you would. I hope I’ve had the feeling that uh Sharington is not going to be let go. That’s just been my personal feeling on it. It felt like if it was going to happen, it would have. And now things have settled into the fact that they’re going to go into the off season. And maybe he’s built up enough will with Bob to say, “Look, I’ve got all this pitching. Uh, look how we’ve played the last what, four months of the season as opposed to the first two, and um, we’re close. Just stick with me uh, another year.” But I don’t know. Um, part of me still wants to just tear the scab off completely, but I can see a a path to um giving him another year. As much as I’m surprised that I would say that, here’s the thing that I hate the most, Jim, because I’m going to go through this. I’m with you. I want to move on from him. My head keeps saying move on. But here’s the thing. I want really what he’s changed with the international system. I’m just I’m looking at the FCL and Braden is working. They’re they’re actually getting results. Edward Florentino is a big one. They’ve got some really good promising young players coming up through that system now finally. Took too long to get there. They did it right. Development system. All of a sudden the bats are moving. guys are coming here and looking better than they did on the team they came from. Like I I’m just saying that they made the change there a year ago. They changed who was running the drafts last year. I think we’re liking those results. I love the pitching coaching right now. Stum and Maron and I love what they’re doing and I love what they’re building. Stum and Maron are really, really nice pieces to have on your coaching staff. The hitting hasn’t been good. I’m not sure I can blame Heg for that. I certainly don’t have anything I can put my hat on and praise him for either. I lately I can say they’re they’re all taking a much better approach at the plate collectively. It’s more aggressive. It’s less predictable. Guys are getting their swings off. They don’t seem to be swinging for the fences out of desperation to catch up all the time. There there just seems to be a little bit more cohesion there. So, I’m not hating it. I’m basically saying fire Cherington, but keep everything else. And and I wonder if that makes any sense in the grand scheme of things, right? Because wouldn’t you maybe in that case just promote Horowitz, who Cherington hired to I’m just saying what what changes really. Well, you know, the the the biggest um sticking point to me is right now is just how pivotal of a um specific point in time this is with the Pirates and everything uh that’s going on. And how does that look if you make this move and the Pirates don’t make the right move out of it or they keep Sharington and it falls apart. This is year number three coming up for Ski. Like if they ever have to get something right, it is this time right now. And it’s the stakes are so the stakes are so high because it’s such a pivotal moment for them as a franchise. And that scares the hell out of me. It okay. I mean, I don’t know why it scares you. It’s not like it’s we’re gonna die if if they lose, but like I’m just saying I would like to have Paul SK pitch meaningful baseball for the Pittsburgh Pirates. I I get that. But I I guess what I’m saying is like meaningful baseball comes in a lot of forms. They’re probably about Well, we’ll see where this season ends. For all I know, they’re going to hit 76 again, Jim. They only need to go like what 12 and 12 and or no it was 13 and nine before they won. So now they got to go like what 12 and eight something like that is now if they can you watch this team finish with the same record again. Well Jim they really could and I mean like I there’s no way that you should look at that and go yeah keep the GM. All I’m saying is everything that he’s built here has worked pretty good. And what I want to say is that he may be that guy that kind of like came in and did a whole bunch of like dirty ass plumbing work and then an architect did a really nice suit came in and built a beautiful building on top of it. I think we could be looking at that kind of situation here where like he kind of did a lot of the ugly grunt work that was never going to catch any praise and then somebody comes in and right on top of that foundation is able to build cuz the next GM is in a brilliant situation and if you argue that you’re just deathly afraid to give Ben Cherington any credit at all and he has done some good things. Yeah. I mean, it’s a situation where um you’re you you’re right in the sense of it takes a long time to build a foundation to being able to build on top of it. Um I guess the the the playing the devil’s advocate part of it would be is do you do can you fall back on well it’s just taken too long. It’s like not not maybe at the not at maybe at like some of like when you were talking about at the very low levels and how they had to restructure and redo everything, but just at the major league level that it’s taken too long, so he’s lost that right to to see it through. I can get behind that. What if like he really was very restricted on money to the point where it was basically like we’re not going to spend until you tell me that that spending is the thing that gets us over the top because this team that you built is that ready and that was just going to take x amount of years to do especially with co that’s the $64,000 question with all of this has been is does he have money to spend and he’s just not doing it or choosing to spend it in places like analytics and whatnot or has he simply just not had it and he’s been the good soldier about it you know I or is you know it or maybe it’s a combination of both. It feels that way Jim because like I was wrong about Tommy Fam right? You were wrong about Tommy Fam. That’s was I was I was I was very very wrong about Tommy fam. We’ve been wrong about a lot of players like that, you know, like we wanted rowdy cut I think in May last year and then he turned it around, right? And there we were at the game together cheering for him that one day. Hey, hey, we can we we can admit when we’re wrong sometimes. I mean, but I’m saying like these were shoestring signings. They weren’t a lot of money. I don’t believe that he’s going to work going like, “Man, the cheaper I do this, the better I look.” So, to me, in one way, it’s almost real dumb to sit here and assume that he has been getting more a lot more money and deciding not to spend it for some freaking reason. I just I’m sorry. I don’t believe it. That’s always been the part with me too that um GMs they they want they want money they you know what I mean like they will spend it and so I just would find it hard to believe that he had been given more to spend and then just said no no thanks. Like Greg Hy here he brought this up actually on my uh locked on show. He was talking about like if we just had a couple or you know a couple more bats, we probably could have uh made the playoffs this year. And I started really thinking about it, Jim, and I I thought, okay, well, you wouldn’t have gotten one where Horowitz was because you expected him to play. And this is not a team that is going to replace somebody they expect to be a starter even if they’re going to be injured for a month or two. And you know that as dumb as that is. Even though you could have gone out and gotten someone like Dominic Smith and actually patched a hole, you know what I mean? For free off waiverss. But just saying or you could have like kept Miguel Anduhar. I don’t know. Just saying. Anyways, uh there’s it’s not like there’s not ways that you could have done things better or smarter there. But could two players really have changed things that much? Think about how much really five or six W is in baseball. What you have to what kind of player you have to be to be like a five or six war player. Well, what does that mean? Wins above replacement. How like let’s say that you get two five or six W players. This team is like 10 wins better than they are. I don’t think that’s playoffs yet, right? I think that’s like little better than 500 but not much. And I I wonder how how much that would have cost because five or six W is a lot. Do you get what I mean? Like that’s like a Kyle Schwarber is probably going to be like what a seven this year, you know, like and and to your point about some of this is every year the free agent market kind of stinks anymore. There’s just really like teams have gotten very good about not letting guys get the free agency that are worth keeping. You know what I mean? like the it’s just not like it used to be where there was a lot of a lot to choose from out there and then you take the top names off the board because you know they’re going to places, you know which markets they’re going to and then so you’re left with the best of the rest and then their market is propped up a little bit and none of them are usually even sure things. So, it makes it really difficult now to do anything, I think, in free agency as opposed to what it used to look like in baseball. Teams are better at not make letting that happen. Yeah, for the most part. Or like teams are better at not not letting it be their problem because they trade them off before that decision has to feel like that. You know what I mean? Sure. So, and then there’s a lot of these extensions that come after that or Yeah. I I don’t know, Jim. I I feel like I we went into this season talking an awful lot about they needed two bats or they needed and as we’ve watched this season play out, I think my main takeaway is I think first of all the pitching staff, if I’m really honest with myself about how it developed as the season went on, I think it needed this season to kind of become a little bit more of a pitching staff. A lot of those kids really needed introduced to Major League Baseball this year. A lot of guys had to get themselves stretched into actually viable pitchers, you know, like Braxton Ashcraft is like a little over 100 right now. He’s already almost 30 over what he’s ever done. You know what I mean? So, we’re talking about like a guy that’s looking to do another 15 innings this year, maybe. You know, they’ll be careful with them. and I I think 15 innings you probably shut him down around 120 130 like this season needed to happen in a way just to get the pitching groomed and I’m not saying they shouldn’t have like supported it with hitting but I think we might have seen a little shakiness anyway is the point and I’m not sure how much gas they have left for a playoff run at this point either. Well, yeah. And you know, it’s funny. Everybody liked to point to the Diamondbacks that one year when they got in the playoffs, right, at the wild card and they won like 84 games, 84, 85 games, something like that. And you look at it anymore, and I think this even bared out a little bit last year. You look at wild card leaders, Yankees 15 games over 500. The Red Sox 15 games over 500. uh take it to the National League. The Cubs wild card 20 games over 500. The Padres’s 12 games over 500. Like teams are going to win. The Mets are even though they’ve been terrible, they’re still nine games over five 10 games over 500. Like maybe maybe that was a little bit of wishful thinking on on a lot of people’s parts that well you get that 85 wins and and maybe you get in. I don’t know that that that lasts. I think you’re I think you’re you’re generally as a fan in the season. If your team’s putting up a record like that, you feel like you’re in it. Like the Reds right now are all the way back to 500. they have suffered recently. Yeah, they’re game five games out at five, but I bet their fans still feel right this second like they’re in it. It’s a long shot at this point, but they feel like they’re still in it. Their games matter, right? That we haven’t even had that since like 2015, really. 2018, maybe. I guess you could argue. But I mean, Jim, that’s that’s kind of got to come first. And I I don’t know that that was going to happen unless this pitching matured a little bit anyway. No, I think on the pitching side of thing, this year has been very beneficial in the sense of I mean Paul Ske is everything we thought he would be. Oedo has has taken more time because of his his setback. Um but now he looks to be really up to speed and ready to go. Ashcraft has looked really good in his role. Um Bubba for the most part has looked really good in in the sense that he’s getting some time at the end here to really feels what it like what it’s like to be a major leager. So I don’t disagree with you on the pitching side. Um the trick is now how do they get to the next step Gary? How they how they get to this how how do they get past what they are right now? I feel like first of all they need a viable O’Neal Cruz. He’s going to come back. They’re going to depend on him to be at least what he was this year, if not better. They need better. And but he’s going to be a big component here, man. Like you’re the reality is they’re not probably going to sign a free agent that’s more impactful than O’Neal Cruz is capable of being. That’s the reality. Um, if I were to go after any free agent, my dream right now is probably Gisham from New York. He can play anything in the outfield. He’s hit a ton of home runs this year. Good a good hitter. I think he could move Cruz over to right field and alleviate some problems that I think we’re seeing in center field aren’t going away. You can’t be a center fielder and not pay attention all the time, Jim. Not just when you’re hitting a home run, not just when you’re having a good game, not just when you stole a base, not just when your kids in the crowd. You got to be locked in when you’re in center field. And that kid is not, you know, and I’m I’m like my leash is mighty short with him next year. I’m just saying it is. They’ve got better coming. He’s probably the most important thing that they have to figure out how to keep him engaged and fully invested. Um I bet I I’ve paycheck ain’t going to do that. Not this year. No. No, it’s not. I mean, he he has hurt himself in that regard. Um, and arbitration’s already uncomfortable even whenever you’re pretty good. Um, they find they they they want to find ways to make to to not pay you. Um, he’s probably the biggest thing right now. And I will say it has been up until the last couple months that I have always said with O’Neal Cruz, give him time. I think he’ll figure it out. I have backed off that feeling a little bit. I’m not sure. I’m not sure that he will figure it out. I’m not sure just how uh fully engaged he can be in this environment here in Pittsburgh. It’s frustrating. He’s very much like George Pickkins to me. And I don’t mean like that he’s uh talking talking crap like George Pickkins did. I don’t think he’s like that. all the talent in the world for whatever reason just cannot put it to application and on the field just cannot get the mental side of the game down. That’s that that’s the part that sucks cuz he’s not a dumb kid. He’s not. He’s just He wants to have fun and wants it to be a game. And that’s great, but you’ve got to be able to push through and play the game well even when it’s not particularly fun. You know, like when you’re struggling, you can’t exacerbate the problem by going into a deep dark hole where you just don’t do anything well. Pick yourself up with your defense. you know, pick yourself up by walking. Like, at least take a good at bat and try to get on base. You know what I mean? Like, he’s just going up there and flailing. He’s a very hard guy to read. Let’s just let’s just say that right away. Like, there are times when you’re watching him. And I always want to be careful with that with anybody because like you can misinterpret body language and things like that. He’s super hard to get a read on because sometimes it really just looks like he is um you know totally going through the motions. So I I don’t know. I I think that that like would be maybe if I’m having Ben Sharington in for an end of end of a year uh review I say how are we going to get to O’Neal Cruz? What’s the plan there? And if he answers that well enough then maybe he can stay. And if he can’t, then maybe I need to go find someone that can do it. Because because you’re right, they’re not going to go out and find anybody that that you wouldn’t pay and they’re not going to land anybody of significance. We we already know that that you can’t hope to get out of O’Neal Cruz. I just don’t know how you do it. I don’t know either. I don’t know what the answer is there, Jim. I know like there comes a point when you you either just accept, okay, this is what he is and and in that case, he still might be a nice piece. It’s not like it’s not like he’s a bad baseball player. He’s just not a great baseball player. And it’s kind of up to him at this point. And you know, Martin says, you know, Cruz might be better suited to be DH. Well, here’s the problem, Martin. And I really mean this. Martin actually, you know what? I’m I’m just gonna do it. This is from Shopkins. [Applause] Get your butt over to Shopkins. Call your shot this week. Is Martin White Hurst here. Boom. Marty coming in with a nice nice comment. He says, “Cruz might be better suited to DH.” And I hear this a lot, Martin. My problem with it is it’s a premium. That arm talent that he has is a premium and I’d hate to not use it anywhere. Part of me was thinking almost, could he handle third base? You know, he’s got that infield in him, right? He’s played shortstop before. Would third base work a little bit better? But Jim, I think we’d be just as disappointed in that as we ended up being shortstop. I hear the case for sure. I hear the case for DH. I do. I hear it. But don’t we have too many other of those, Jim. I mean, isn’t that maybe what this Flores guys is going to wind up being that we just got from the Yankees? And it feels like it feels like Joey Bart could be that right now. Andrew McCutchen already exists. I Brian Reynolds makes a lot of sense. He’s struggled in the field, although I think his metrics love him this year in right field for some reason, Jim. And just saying, but he, you know, Brian Reynolds could be a DH, too. And I think that would make a lot of sense. I I’m not sure that that O’Neal Cruz is going to get the luxury of getting to be a DH very often. How about you? Well, you know, it’s funny because first of all, I think if we’re talk and and Martin, I don’t necessarily disagree with like the thought of it. I don’t either. I mean it’s very valid but it’s boy it’s such an abject failure that we are even having this conversation to take a guy with that kind of arm that kind of speed and we’re talking about putting in DH just it it makes me queasy to to to have to think of it because that’s a failure that’s a failure somehow now that’s a failure on O’Neal Cruz that’s a failure on pirates part um that we would even have to do that. My other concern with it is this is DH is a really really tough thing to do. I think people think it’s like this. Oh, it’s great. I just to get up. I just have to go bat four times a game. You’re already talking about a guy that sometimes doesn’t seem all that engaged in things. Even coach will say that’s the h the 100% hardest part about being a DA is keeping yourself involved in the game. It really is. You know, I had to do it a little bit and um I struggled at it. I it I did not feel like I was part of the game. I did not feel like I was loose. I did all those things. I just think that maybe we uh oversimplify that and then I worry about it with O’Neal Cruz on top of it because we’ve already seen him not be fully kind of, you know, locked in at times. I don’t know if that’s good for him. That’s it sucks because so much of like what can actually be achieved here with this turnaround relies on a guy that I think right now at best we all have a tenuate tenuous feeling about and that’s Arno Cruz. Like I I personally do not have any reservations about Brian Reynolds. He’s going to be fine. He’s going to be Brian Reynolds, you know, eventually he’ll slow down. You know, even if he is slowing down right now, he’s not so slow that I should expect it to be terrible next year. If Cut comes back, you know what, Jim? I kind of expect 10 home runs. I feel like he wouldn’t come back if he didn’t think he had it in him. That said, thinking and actually having are two different things, but I trust him because his reputation means a lot to him. You know what I mean? But Cruz, man, I don’t know that I can say that, but we’re definitely going to have to deal with it. And I I don’t know. It’s it’s so much of it hinges on that. It almost doesn’t matter what the GM is either. Everything we talked about around that diamond, none of that’s changing. None of that’s changing no matter who they hire. That they’re on all that stuff. That’s true. It’s not like a like a new uh GM comes in and all of a sudden they magically have $70 million to spend. Yeah. That that’s not going to happen. Now, if your argument is, well, I want someone to come in here and trade some of this pitching and I want them to have be able to do it. Um, and I don’t trust Sherington. Okay, I guess I I guess I get that. I look at Brian Reynolds right now and I agree with you. Of course, his season has not been good, but even in an awful season, which he has had overall, he’s still at a 724 OPS and now has 15 homers and 70 RBI on a team that he’s still a productive player. Yeah. So, I mean it is what it is there that I would probably consider doing, but what how many times can we move O’Neal Cruz around, you know, like like right field third uh DH like if we’re a if we’re asking all this is maybe maybe the answer is that he’s not going to be someone we can depend on. Jim, you know what? We need a big bat. And I can think of one, but it’s crazy. I mean, absolutely batswword crazy, Jim, to bring it up. That’s what we’re going to do when we come back. Anyway, all right. At DK Pittsburgh Sports, we take pride in coverage that connects our city’s fans to their favorite teams. Now, that connection’s stronger than ever. Introducing our all-new state-of-the-art app. Find expert inside reporting and original podcasts. Check live box scores. Track the latest stats. Cat it up with our community of thousands of fans all in one place. The new app from DK Pittsburgh Sports. Coverage that connects. [Music] Welcome back to that there Pirates Fan Forum down there on DK Pittsburgh Sports podcast. So listen, Jim, sound like sounded like Drewuski there. I’ve been hearing from some scout buddies of mine that they can’t think of any good reason whatsoever why Connor Griffin shouldn’t be given every opportunity to win a spot in spring training next year. And according to them, the Pirates are open to that. Now, we again have to preface this with we don’t know who’s going to be making that decision. Or maybe we do. And maybe maybe we really do. I don’t know. But um it sounds as though they’re going to leave that door open. And he’s kind of played like somebody that should have that door left open. Are you a little afraid of him skipping AAA altogether? Like do you do you think that that would be a mistake with him? I know that you’ve wanted to be a little careful. I know his father wants them to be a little careful, but I’m sure he wouldn’t turn his nose up at his kid getting promoted to the bigs either. And eventually he’d figure it out, wouldn’t he? You would like You would like to think so. Um he he he could probably be a guy that you could bring up that even if he wasn’t completely ready would figure it out as he went along and still be productive just because of the tools that he has and the way that you know he plays the game and the speed that he has. He he would impact the game enough to still be a um a positive war good player. Um, yeah. I mean, it worries me. I think jumping from double A straight to the majors at his age, being that young, of course. Of course, I have some reservations about it. But if he finishes, and they’re almost done anyway. If he finishes out the season looking like he is, he gets another off season of, you know, work. I have I I would not place any restrictions on him going into the spring. I wouldn’t. The reason that I’m not going to place any restrictions on him heading into this spring is because damn it, Jim, I already did that heading into this season. I mean like I mean even when when we were talking to him, you know, he he was more grounded than we were. Like you know, he was talking about a couple years, you know, being able to potentially maybe get a chance. And I I’m sure that everything’s gone more swimmingly than he possibly imagined to, right? Sure. But if you’re ready, you’re ready. And like we talked about in D like when we saw him, he’s got a major leaguer’s body already. It this isn’t one of those instances where I think you’re going to call up a kid who physically is not developed enough to play yet. I I think that would be a mistake. I think this would be an opportunity. An opportunity I’d be open to. In fact, I would love it if they would just go and just right now sign him for 10 years. then just be ready. And that way there’s no messing around about the decision at all. It’s just when he’s ready, he’s up here. We’re already paying him. So be it. I fully endorse getting him signed. I think he’s exactly the kind of kid that from his makeup to his abilities that you feel very confident handing him a long-term deal to keep him here longer. Um, I would I would I would say that if you’re picking and choosing right now, I put him near the top of the list of of things you could realistically get done. You know, we can talk about the Paul Skins thing. Every time he goes on the mound, he becomes more un unaffordable. And O’Neal Cruz, you don’t know what to do with him right now. you I would you dare give him an extension of any kind. Um Connor Griffin I slot him up near the the top or at the top of guys that you could go out and get it done. Yeah. I I mean I think that would be the way to go. I I would I would say like this isn’t the same as like Kabrian Hayes where he showed you like a a season or two of good and then you were like okay let’s get this done. This is a bet, more of a bet, but a bet that you’re seeing more and more teams that are in the Pirates situation doing, you know, and and like the Orioles just did, and you know, I think we saw what the Brewers do it with Cheerios, and we’re seeing it more and more across the league, and it seems like it’s kind of part of doing business. That said, so were multi-year contracts for free agents. So, do you think there’s a chance that this is something that this team would actually pursue or do you think that would take a GM change or an owner change? This is such we Yeah, cuz um they’ve never really ventured into anything like this, so to speak, where sense. And these types of contracts are eminently affordable because guys, we’re talking like these are guys that you sign for like 10 years, 80 million, right? That’s exactly the number I had in my head when we were talking about Yeah. And I know that sounds like I’m being cheap with Connor. But when you add up the years of control that teams get and everything, you kind of have an idea of like if this guy’s a superstar, this is what it’s going to cost. If he’s not, this is if we feel like taking him all the way is what it’ll cost. and 80 million for 10 years spread out over the course of that 10 years is a bargain for whatever he’s going to give you, you know. And I I just think that’s something that this team and plus this is a kid that at this point, Jim, that contract would expire. He’d be like what, 29, right? Right. I think you would try to get like eight or nine years out of him. He’d probably more be more comfortable with that because it gets him to like free agency. What at 27? Let’s not do this to ourselves. Do you think it’s realistic they would do this at all? Because we’re talking about fine-tuning something that I’m not even sure they’ll try to wrench on. I think if they’re ever going to take a chance and do something like this, it would be with Connor Griffin. I do. I I I I think they know what they’ve got with him. And if you’re interested in keeping him beyond his years of control, this would be the way you’d have to do it. And to be honest, if you’re worried about $80 million over like a 10year span, that’s sad in its own right. It’s just not that much money over the long term. It’s just not. I don’t think that a factor they ever take in and absorb is how something like that communicates to the fans that you have a little bit longer before you have to start worrying about losing this player. That window that you know that that fans talk about and we never acknowledge, well, it just got a little bit more open for a little bit longer. That’s what signing somebody like that would do for this team. That’s why I would love to see it. And I think it would take a lot of the stupidity out of the process of onboarding him in the first place. You know what I mean? Yeah. You just do it when it feels right, right? You don’t have to worry about any of the the keeping, you know, worrying about the years of control and um in fact, you have incentive. Pull them right the hell up. Get that rookie of the year if you can. you’re shooting for that rookie of the year cuz you’re not going to lose a year of control now. You’re just going to get a draft pick. You know what I mean? Like you abuse the system that this stupid league built, you know? Like take advantage of it. They’ve made it impossible for these kids to turn down poultry contracts like that. Really? Yeah. That’s the reason they exist in the first place is because teams know it’s such a long process for some of these guys to get paid that they’re willing to take that security for far less than their market value would have been had they been in some other type of system. I would agree. So I I think the Connor Griffin thing to me is a nobrainer. Um, and I agree with you in the sense that it removes so much of like when to call him up, when to bring him, are we wasting a year here? Um, the fans can actually sit there and say, “Man, we’ve got this guy for the next eight, nine years. You can actually look at him as he progresses if they decide to keep him in the minors and you can rest your head. You can rest your weary Pirates fan head down and go, I know for a fact that baseball team would not have him down there if they thought he could play up here because they’re already paying him. Right. That’s ex It’s such a message that this fan base needs from this stupid team. Yeah. And it it removes a lot of it removes all that stupid discussion around it um that we have to put up with all the time when it when it comes to this kind of thing. Pretty much. I I think too like if cuz I know I know what this feels like. I think everybody does right now cuz we’re doing it with skins is every time the guy pitches I’m thinking it’s one less start I get to see him in a pirates uniform. You know what I mean? like we’re already we’re already we already know where that clock is and how it’s ticking, you know, and and it’s not far off before we’re having some really probably, you know, sad discussions about what we’re going to do with Paul Skins. And to be able to push that out and you have a guy that could possibly be Bobby Wit and have him for eight, nine years, man, I just why would you? You have to do it. You have to. Right. I think that’s going to be probably the the thing that I’m going to look for the most in the off season. And I don’t know if that’s in Ben Cherington’s bag of tricks. I don’t know if that’s something he would consider. I I maybe it’s that would maybe that’s going to take one of these younger guys that thinks a little bit differently, you know, that that they hire away from somewhere else because that that’s the sort of thinking I I believe if if the markets are going to stay like this and Major League Baseball is going to continue to operate as it does or something similar, that’s the best path forward for, I think, smaller market teams is to try to take as much advantage as you possibly can of what you do see coming, you know, and and get out in front of it. Yeah, it seems to be if you’ve got guys you think and you better be relative. Yeah, you can’t just be handing these things out, but you know, you get enough of them, and when I say that, I mean even two or three of them coming along, especially Connor Griffin, but we’ve got some young guys that you it’d be really interesting to see where they go. Um, that you have to maybe start thinking this way. It’s it’s the way to get it’s the way to kind of cheat the system in your favor. And yes, it’s a little bit of risk, but how else are you going to compete? They’re they’re taking a risk, too. They’re committing to you for like a decade, you know? I mean, like, I I think that it’s a perfect thing for this team to pursue regardless of who the GM is. I don’t know that Bob would actually understand what’s happening, but I I would trust somebody should probably be able to explain it to him. That’s probably their best bet at getting a real bad up here. quickly Jim from the system. Termar looks good this year. Flores looks like he could help those three. And then who I mean like I guess we’re going to go back to the well on Nick York. Have we flushed Billy Cook out of our system yet? Are we done with that? What do we think of Cam Deainy? Yeah, I think the the I think at some point you have to start, you know, that saying to yourself if if one of those guys like a Billy Cook happens to figure it out. But he’s not young. Like, you know what I mean? Like he’s not a young a young kid. Neither is Deainy. No. And neither is Deainy either. Um, so Nick York is he’s young enough, right? You could do something with him. Nick York is still in that age where you can hope to get something out of him. Um, yeah, like our buddy here saying Valdez, Emerlland Valdez, uh, hitting the hell out of the ball in double A, but he’s still got a lot of strikeouts. I I I worry about his path here. At least I don’t think it’s a next year solution for him. I think that’s another year. But yes, he’s one of the bats coming, too. I hope he steps up. Yeah. And I think going back real quick to that whole thing we talked about Connor Griffin. I just wanted to say this is this is where an owner that’s maybe a little bit plugged in more and maybe more a little more baseball oriented would take the reigns about the Connor Griffin situation and say we need to get this done. And I don’t know if Bob even has an inkling to have that idea. No. And I know that I know that this is uh this Paul Sch situation, it seems bleak. It does. It does seem that there’s no way they’ll be able to do it. This is what I think 29 other owners honestly would find a way. You know what I mean? Like there’s when when you get that guy that like people are that that said the Angels had to let Otani go. It takes two to tango, you know? and Sodto had to be let go. He wasn’t going to sign anywhere. I guess it takes two to to want to do that sort of thing. Maybe that’s why I’m suggesting ambushing them in minor leagues with the contract, right? Yeah. Well, you know, and Paul’s in a different situation, too, in the sense of now he’s got two years under his belt and it’s been historic and, you know, he’s not hurting for money. um you know and and he wants to win. So I’ll tell you what, man. If 2027 goes a certain way and there is like say they come out of with a salary cap and you can you can say whatever you like out of it, but there certainly is a ground swell of people talking about it a lot more, right? In Major League Baseball, it’s getting discussed a heck of a lot more. In fact, I heard like I heard a clip of I was just going through reels and I heard a clip of Paul Zeiss talking to Charlie Kirk about it about the salary. Yeah. Like and he’s talking to all Pirates baseball. That’s why it came up on my reels because it was tagged with Pirates. But I was like, what the hell is he talking to Charlie Kirk for? You know, it made no damn sense. But they’re talking about a salary cap in baseball and how much it would help the Cubs. And I’m like, what? Like, yeah. Um, I’m just saying if if the Cubs are are getting to the point where like they’re openly pitching for it, too, and the Yankees are talking about it and I saw something about the Cardinals. Let’s just say let’s just say they come out of it with a with a salary cap. There won’t be many teams in baseball that would have more cap room to offer Paul skis than the Pittsburgh Pirates. They might end up coming out of this smelling like a rose if it actually does come back with a cap. Let’s look at that and go to sleep with that tonight and let that guide your dreams. All we have to do is pray for the total dismantling of baseball’s economic system and and and and we’re golden, baby. I mean, is that a lot to ask? I mean, maybe maybe we stick to getting Connor Griffin signed. Well, Jim, we’ve been talking all the way till KDKA 1020, so yeah, it’s time to it’s time to go ahead and get off. But, uh, thank you everybody for joining us. It was the first night for the NFL. Welcome back, Steelers this weekend. Good for you. Cam, you better play. I don’t know what game you’re playing, but quit messing around. You’re a Pittsburgger now and we don’t do that. Get out on that field. Yes. Yes. We uh we Pittsburgers, we we love hard, but we hate hard, too. So, Cam, don’t don’t be screwing us up now. Right. And Martin, get a hold of me on uh Twitter or Facebook or wherever, even YouTube or something. Somehow I got to get your information on to Shopen so you can get your Congrat Congrats, sir. your stuff. It was a great question. Thank you so much. All right, everybody. Let’s toss it off to Ben. We’ll be back next week with another new episode. Hopefully, we’re talking about the Pirates continuing to dominate baseball and charge their way to 85 wins by never losing again the whole season. Jim, what do you think? Uh, I think a lot of things, Gary, I’ll see you next week. All right, man. Let’s go, Bucks. Yeah, buddy.

Gary & Jim sit down to talk about the Pirates’ continued march to the same exact record they’ve put on paper the past two seasons.