The Pistons Are Only Getting Started…
What is up fellow sickos? I’m Dan Favali coming at you with another 2025 2026 NBA season. Look ahead. We are on to the Detroit Pistons which means it’s time to talk to Laz Jackson. He is an editor for Detroit bad boys. Follow him on the social machines. Lazance. That’s Laz C h. [Music] Laz, how the heck are you doing? This is going to be a different conversation than we’ve had over the past five, six, seven years about the Pistons. I think I I I think so too, Dan. I’m doing well. I’m happy to be here. I’m excited to be here. I I was telling you in the pre-show how I reuped on my season tickets and uh if you had asked me would I do that like three years ago, the answer would have been like no. Like never. It’s like this is we’re finally in a space I feel comfortable shoveling thousands of dollars to this team. That’s big. Honestly, I think we could end the episode right there and that just encapsulates like where the endorsement. Yeah. So, man, last season just if you go back and listen to our offseason discussion, doesn’t really turn anything out like we were expecting, per se. What’s like your I hate to boil down to this, but what’s like the single biggest revelation or takeaway you had from how last year just sort of unfolded? I think the biggest thing you have to take away from last year was the onc court and off-c court leadership role Cade Cunningham took and the elevation of his game to an allNBA level talent and how that accelerated what the Pistons were looking to do, right? Um, there were so many moments last year where Cade came out and settled these guys in, made the correct play, made the right decisions, got them in a space where winning felt like something that was supposed to happen as opposed to something that like occasionally occurred, right? to me like that that was his like little that was his like so lowercase s star season like we will get into Cade later I’m sure. Um, but if you ask me like what my main takeaway was is like, okay, we finally got like a guy. We can build everything around in Kade and we know that for sure when you when you hear to trade and Langden’s like postseason uh press availability like he kind of says the same thing, right? Like we like, okay, we finally got this team in a space where we like everything we we’ve built in the shooting. You and me, Dan, we’ve talked about shooting around Cave for literally his entire career. They finally put that in place and like you you see the results. And so now it’s now it becomes a matter of okay, what are the ancillary secondary pieces that we need to put around this guy? Answering some of those questions is like the important thing for the short and long term. But for now, they have a capital G guy, which is what you need in the NBA to succeed, especially what you need in the Eastern Conference, which is really weak right now, to succeed. And they can build on that. That’s that’s my big takeaway. I think that has to be the biggest takeaway because it’s like he’s the most important player in the building even before last season and now it’s there was questions. You and I didn’t really fall on this end of the spectrum, but there was just questions. Is he that guy? And to know he’s that guy is huge. I think what also kind of struck me last year was, and I think this this has to do with JB Bicker staff, and I’m curious your thoughts on what were like the biggest stylistical or philosophical differences you noticed from the Monty Williams era that lasted. Was that a decade? I don’t know how long that Monty Williams era lasted. It felt like a decade, Dan. So, yeah. So, but I think what also struck me is just so you made some changes, but like the defense gets a lot better without focusing on adding a bunch of like defensive per I know you have a Sar Thompson. And I know you drafted Ron Hall in the second. That struck me the ability to like they still were able to get like Ron Hall in the second played in a lot of games even though the Pistons were winning and then you just get to the playoffs and like it wasn’t just a happy to be here situation and I get you know that’s the most recent thing we’ve seen from the Pistons like notwithstanding summer league. So, it just struck me to where it was, oh, like are they just on the precipice of something even better than we thought this regular? Like that entire Knicks series was like a few calls just from going the Pistons’ way probably. And that’s kind of insane to think about when you go back and reflect upon where this team was this time last year when you and I were talking. Yeah. I think the the thing that JB really instilled in this team was a sense of identity which is like kind of nebulous, right? And it’s also it’s funny cuz like it’s a little played up. It’s like oh their defense their identity is like defense and getting out in transition and making shots and like oh a Detroit’s team’s identity is defense. like how shocking, how like how new, how novel. Um, but it really like you could tell that they were just much more certain of what everyone on the court was supposed to be doing on both ends of the floor. Was it always like the most inventive basketball genius stuff I had ever seen in my life? No. There were large stretches in which the entire plan for like offensive bench units was like, “Hey, Malik, can you make four threes in six minutes and just like keep things going?” And he did it sometimes and that was great. Um, but the team like knew but like the team knew that was the plan, right? If if nothing else, like at least all five guys are following the same plan. When you when you looked at Monty Williams, there was just no no sense of cohesion, no sense of identity, no sense of like what everybody was supposed to be doing. And not even like in a oh these guys are competing way in a like like did I mess up? Did you mess up? Like did did like was there something like two rotations ago that got messed up and like that’s where everything went and and there was a just so much less of that this year and that was so valuable. It was um kind of kind of budenhozeresque, right? And that if you if you take care of all of like the little things like that compounds enough to where you get to a space where like again like winning is something that’s supposed to happen as opposed to something that like occasionally happens. Looking at the actual off season, they got thrown a curveball with the Malik Beasley stuff. Yeah, I he could still technically come back. They have the non-bird rights. Whatever ends up happening, the gambling probe, he might be in the clear. might not. He’s going to face disciplinary action. Um, how do you think they did in terms of pivoting though? Because it looks like there was a deal that was going to be on the table, 3 years and 42 million. Instead, you wind up getting Duncan Robinson for Simony Fonteo and you were able to get Caris Levert. Just how do you think they did in terms of like the pivot for what it doesn’t seem maybe it didn’t catch them off guard, but this was definitely something that did impact how they went about the offseason for sure. No, no, absolutely. And for the record, there was a report in the Detroit News a couple of days ago, I think, that he like he paid back the uh the rent that he owed at his apartment building in Detroit and I think is is has moved back in for whatever that’s worth. So, did he pay his barber though? That’s what I’m still is the barber and the dentist, right? Is the barber and the dentist, which is just like I didn’t for the barber. I understand NBA players travel in different circles than me. I didn’t know that you could put like barber expenses on layaway basically. Like it’s not even if you’re even having a traveling barber. That’s not something I knew was a was a thing. It’s less layaway. It’s like I got you, man. I got you, man. I got you. And then you look up and it’s been three months. It’s like what? What’s going on? But but as as for the pivot at at first I was disappointed because I thought that in basically like functionally replacing Shruder and Beasley with Levert and Duncan, I didn’t think they improved and I thought that they needed to improve to not get kind of stuck where they were last year. Then uh you look at how everything went for everyone’s off seasonason after the dust settles and craziest off seasonason of all time, right L? Just wild. Like I but I I don’t feel like anyone above them in the standings last season did like anything amazing either to like get ahead, right? And you look at teams that were ahead of them like Boston, Indiana who are or Boston and Indiana who are taking gap years functionally um and it’s like okay there’s there’s room for improvement and advancement standing wise without the team like getting way way better. Um I I was particularly disappointed in the acquisition of Levert. I was a really big Nil Alexander Walker guy. I realize like the cap minations that they would have needed to make a signing trade happen like probably proved pretty difficult, but they were like reportedly in on him up until the final buzzer. And so I was I was bas I was disappointed they didn’t get Nikil Alexander Walker more than I was like happy that they I did get somebody who can play that role in Caris Levert. And Duncan Robinson was like it’s very interesting. Uh that was very interesting signing from a couple perspectives. Uh, yes. Duncan Robinson replaces the like shooting gravity of Malik Beasley. He does so in like kind of a different way, kind of not a different way. There’s a lot of Bam Duncan chemistry that I am not sure that if Duncan’s coming off the bench, I’m not sure Isaiah Stewart like draws the same level of defensive attention as Bam Adabio. And so you wonder if like people are just keying in on Duncan like what does that actually do from like a functional like how how he performs perspective but just like as a dude who can shoot like yes perfect. His contract is also great very suspiciously structured if you were of the belief that Malik Beasley is in fact coming back to this team. Um and so like it I think the Pistons did good in the acquisition department. The one thing I’ll say uh like Tobias Harris is like way way way down the list. Um, but there the thing I was also pretty concerned about was like a long-term plan at the four position behind Tobias who was a kind who’s expiring contract this season and they still kind of don’t have that guy. Um, I like Bobby Clintman. I saw Bobby Clintman up close in summer league a little bit taller than I expected. I I don’t think he’s the long-term solution at the four. And so that that’s still kind of the one like hole in the roster that I’d like to see filled, but I’ll give Traers the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, I ended up liking and I probably like their off seasonason a lot better if they bring from a basketball perspective Beasley back because Robinson to your point the chemistry and bandwidth stuff like you’re not even going to have that with like Pete Duran I don’t think at this point either. So I think he’s also really best served if there is like another shooter on the court. they might be able the fact that Tobias Harris is there or maybe you can get to some lineups where you have Beasley and Robinson on the court at the same time since Robinson’s played up. I think that he’s become like underrated though in just terms of his gravity and like being able to shake loose and get inside the arc over the past two years. So, I thought they remounted nicely there. And I’m actually more of a Levert guy now following his Cleveland time, not so much in Atlanta. I just don’t think that if you were gonna move on from Dennis Shruder and you don’t want to saddle Jaden Ivy maybe with too much or if you’re looking for at least just like we’re trying to develop but we’re also trying to win I think Caris Lever is going to be better on ball than Nquille offensively defensively is not you know it’s not a question obviously so I thought they re I was surprised it seems like generally people are either indifferent or didn’t like their offseason and maybe the four spots like speaking to that um I was mostly a fan though of it. Yeah, I think it’s it wasn’t very flashy, right? They didn’t make their Desmond Bane trade and I think that was what it’s reason I think a reasonable expectation is like hey like you can you could make your version of the Desmond Bane trade this off seasonason and they didn’t do that and so it’s I think it is underplayed like what they did but like but like you mentioned like Carver’s really good on and off the ball uh enables them to get to lineups where Jaden Ivy who I was very curious to see like if he could handle that level of primary duty as as a creator is like maybe he doesn’t have to all the time. It takes some of that responsibility off of his plate. That’s good. Maybe it makes him a more effective player. Uh and so there is like is Caris Levert better than Dennis Schroeder. It’s like they’re probably about the same but they like but you needed to replace Dennis Shruder because without him you were stuck playing like Marcus Sasser extended minutes who like I like Marcus Casser but like I don’t think he’s an actual I think he’s a point guard point guard. I don’t think it’s a primary and so it’s like you but so you needed that role and is a good backup plan for hey maybe Jaden Ivy isn’t ready all every night to take on this level of responsibility. The the other thing about their offseason I think kind of bleeds into this season is you mentioned they didn’t make their Desmond Bane move. I don’t know if now like even let’s say an opportunity that was out there would have made sense and like Bane in theory I guess is a player that could have made sense for them especially if Beasley wasn’t going to be there. Yeah, now just didn’t feel like the time because you have to make you would have to render these verdicts on you either then need certain of these young guys to be really good like make a leap next season or you need to render a verdict of well what are they worth to us if we’re shipping them out like what how much are they value and I’m also kind of wondering too so like I I respect them not I would say reading too much in to last season or overreact it but overreacting to it but then I also wonder and I’m always fascinated by this is like how much more difficult does it at stomaching or prioritizing player development now that there are actual expectations here to whereas they’re going to be let’s just as an example you know a temptation to be like well like Jay Navy’s minutes might not be there as much alongside K because Caris Lever is playing better right now or is the better fit and it’s just I find that push and pull fascinating and I thought they did a good job of balancing it all last year and it helps that like so many of your quote unquote prospects or developing guys were also your most some of your most important players But now we’re not coming into this season like, oh, like, will the Pistons sniff 30 wins? It’s like, no, like the Pistons are a playoff team right now. Yeah. I think it’s like JB did a really good job with that balancing act over the course of last season. I think in the playoffs, we started to see him skew a little bit more towards the veteran side of things. It’s a lot of Dennis Schroeder in the playoffs. Poor Ron Holland. Lot lot of Dennis Schroeder. Not enough Ron Holland. Oh, by and by the way, I think Caris Levert’s a lot better than Dennis Shruder. I’ve never that one year in OKC, I was like all the however many years he was there, I was aboard the Shruder train. Um, but I’m I’ve probably been too high on Caris Lever at points too, but the stuff he showed like off the ball and even defensively in Cleveland. I don’t even think it’s maybe as like a guy I was going to put raw rim pressure on and like get downhill that way. Yeah, Dennis Shruder. But I I think that’s a pretty big upgrade actually going from Shruder to to Levert for what it’s worth. Worth anything. I’ll take it. I’ll take it. Um but yeah, I think that there is I think because there was so much success in the regular season last year. The expectation is from the front office on down is to build on that success. And so you can start to get to a position where you can start telling guys like, hey, like we are trying to win. If you are not helping us try to win, like you need to get with the program and have that be and like have like not the goal not be like we don’t want to pay you or like you need your shots so you can get the contract. The goal being like we need to win. It’s like if you win like you will probably get paid which is what which is what leads us into the extension talks for Jaden Ivy and Jaylen Duran. Well, let’s start with Jaden Ivy. But before we get to extension, how much or do you buy into what you saw from him last season before the leg injury? And it almost feels like a two-layer question because it’s okay, he shot a trillion% on spot up threes, 45.2, whatever it was, great, but like what is he like in the context of like, well, when Kate Cunningham is on the bench, like how do you trust it? It feels like you have to trust him like in two separate roles for to be considered a a long-term piece. And just from my 10,000 foot view, it’s like feels like he can play the one like really well or we can at least have hope that the KJ Na’vi partnership is going to be fine if not great. But like what is he independent of that? Yeah. I I don’t think this is going to sound like a copout. We didn’t get enough information about Jade last year. Well, so the the timing of his injury was atrocious because if you look at the Pistons season last year, they were a below 500 to slightly below 500 team until like Assar Thompson got back and then like a week later Jaden Navy got hurt and then they were like a good team. So to me, Assar Thompson is like the secret sauce that makes this Pistons team work. And we never really got to see how Jaden Ivy and Assar Thompson like balance each other out on the floor. But in what we did get to see from Jaden Ivy, I thought he did a really effective job playing off of Kate Cunningham, shooting a billion% on spotup threes, like helped in that regard a ton. Um, I thought he did a better job of getting other guys involved. There was some there was like some nice chemistry with Duran. There was some, hey, like this Malik Beasley guy seems pretty good. Like maybe I can just get him the ball and like not have to worry about as much things happening. Um, but the thing I’ve been harping on for years was still there. the defense was still kind of not in the place where you’d like it to be if he’s the guy if he’s the second guy in the back court, right? Um again, like Kade Cunningham is the star or Kate Cunningham is the son. Everything’s evolve or revolves around him. Kate Cunningham is a like actually like kind of slightly above average defender, but you don’t want to ask him to do that much on defense. But having a guy in Jaden Ivy next to him who you don’t trust on defense puts more pressure on him to be more of a two-way player. And if you could get another guy in that spot who would take some of that burden off of Kate, I think you’d see better results. And so it’s tricky. I think Jaden is a really good player. We are starting to a after four years we are not we’re getting into like he is a good player. does he help you win territory? Uh, which is where like Cam Thomas found himself unsuccessfully, which is where like like Jaylen Green is the center of a Durant deal, but nobody thinks like Jaylen Green is a winning player. Right. Right. And so it’s like where on that sliding scale does Jaden Ivy fit and does he fit better if he makes a lower amount on his extension? Right. Um, I have heard that uh the extension talks have not gone as well as either party would have liked. I’ve heard that um you probably won’t sign an extension unless like something changes. Um and it could just be a situation in which it’s like, hey, he he comes in, he shoots 45% on spot-up threes again for the first 30 games of the season, and you’re just like, okay, like here’s the extension. like here’s here’s more money than we perhaps are willing to give but like you seem to have proved yourself and the injury was kind of a freak injury like Cole Anthony just decided to play football on the basketball court and so I’m not I’m not worried about like how that’ll impact him like long term or anything which is good. Would you be on when you’re looking at his extension eligibility, would you be on team like sort of like the Jail and Green deal where the salary is probably inflated a little bit higher than you’d like, but it’s so short term. It’s still easy to trade or are you trying to get like, you know, get the four, five years or the four years with a team option and like the numbers? Like what matters more to you like the length that if you’re if you’re the Pistons or just from your perspective, what would matter more to you? like keeping the price point in a like in a certain range or having him for the maximum number of years. I think if I like climb into the mind of Tjan Langden, I think it has to be the years. I think if I remember this correctly, he has not given out a deal to anyone not named Cade Cunningham for more than two years. Oh wow, I didn’t even realize that. Yeah, like he’s acquired guys who have like had multiple years in the contracts or whatever, but um but yeah, and so I think that if you gave them like the option, they would say like, “Yeah, we’ll we’ll we could go like a two plus one at what people would consider like an elevated dollar amount and see how that plays out. It’s easier to trade uh especially in in today’s like weird cap environment. Uh, I think fewer years is better is easier to trade than a longer term thing. I think what’s also semi-interesting, I don’t view it as a huge part, is that if you sign him to an extension, it just gets a lot harder to trade him this season if you decide to do something in the middle of the year. Yeah. Um, and then the other thing just from a team perspective, I don’t know how you could sit and look at how restricted restricted free agency is playing out right now, even with Cam Thomas signing his qualifying offer, like he they were offering him the Nets basically mid less than mid-level money. Yes. So, I get that, but like if I you want to wait and see if all these guys sign their qualifying offers, then the Pistons, okay, you clock that. But I don’t know how you look at what’s happened to restricted free agency over the years where actually a current Piston is the only guy in years who’s gotten an offer sheet from a different team that wasn’t his own. It was Paul Reed and that was just built to mess with the Sixers. Like the forgot about that. So, I think I’m wondering when they’re not just automax guys or anything sort of close to that like a like a Shangon type who probably could have gotten the Max honestly. Um like I I wonder how reticent teams are going be well then go to restricted free agency. We’ll see. We’ll see what happens. And this might be one of those cases especially when you don’t think you have enough information on that player. Yeah. And well and you you look at like the Jabari Smith extension, right? And that was that was a long extension for a like good amount of money, not a crazy amount of money for a guy that I think from my outside looking in perspective like they think plays a role on like the good version of that team. Um it would be great if Jaden Ivy would be willing to do something like that or now it doesn’t seem like that’s the case. So it’s like okay so we’ll we’ll see how it plays out. Um, but if you just stick to on the court, like he was he was effective last year. He fits next to Kate Cunningham less than I would like, but still pretty good. And uh I’m curious to see how a back court of like him and Caris Levert plays against like the bench lineups of other Eastern Conference teams. Like can that be a thing you buy minutes with in the playoffs? like as Kate Cunningham sits that like these are the questions I’m starting to ask myself. Where are you at? I really want to have strong opinions about Jaylen Duran. I I promise you I really do. But this is I think year three of me basically like I was like after year one you were kind of hyping him up. I was really into it. But it’s I just I can’t muster strong feelings about Jaylen Dur. I think it got better as the year went on last year. There wasn’t a lot of like the stuff we were seeing on offense in year uh two. There wasn’t as much of that. The QB keepers less of that. So, but just like I thought he would be even better defensively than he ended up being now that they’re like especially when you look at the way the Pistons defended overall. Some of the stuff that he could do as a passer. I love it. I you you know I love his shoulders. Those things are massive. I just Where do you land on him and what is like something that you’re just like tracking most closely entering his fourth year? Yeah. If you if you ask Jaylen Durn and you ask Tjan Langden, they were both disappointed in his play through the first 25 games of the year. After that, I like I don’t know what clicked. Uh but something seemed to click and he was much more effective as a defensive player and as an offensive player. And I thought he played I thought he played pretty well for what is he like 22? I thought he played pretty well for a 22 year old in a playoff series. Granted, Tobias Harris took the Carlney Towns matchup because there’s no way in hell that like they could get away with that matchup on defense, but as a as a rebounder, as an interior presence, um, as a guy whose passing ability, I think, opens up more lineup configurations around like two non-shooters in him and Assar Thompson like than you would think. You saw in the playoff series. a lot of chemistry between those guys on like short roll actions to get Assar paint touches and paint finishes over a Knicks defense that was like had Josh Hart and Jaylen Brunson on the back line and it’s like wait what like why why am I underneath the basket while Sar Thompson’s flying at me. Um so I like I think there’s some there there offensively more than you would say like oh hey I’m worried about Cade with a bunch of non-shooters, right? Um, I think his youth and the fact that he like did improve so much more on defense as the season went on still leads me to believe there’s some growth in that area. Um, a big part of that growth is going to have to be becoming more comfortable defending in space. Defending stretch bigs, defending stretch bigs has been a huge issue for him like over the course of his entire career. Um, so for for Duran to me is like it’s always been a lot more clear to me how he fits alongside Kane Cunningham than Jaden Ivy. And so for Duran it’s more of a question of like what does he want? Does he want years or dollars? Right. Whatever he wants like I would be a lot more willing to give it to him also because like the center market is not nearly as robust as the like shooting guard guy who scores market. So I’m I’m a lot more comfortable handing JD an extension. I thought he played better. I think there’s still room for him to grow, especially on defense. Um, there was a there was a bunch of there’s some anonymous tweets that he grew like 3 in as like if that happens like sure if that doesn’t happen like I don’t know why. Like that’s pure September like Twitter bullshittery that he grew three inches since what like this past since like over the summer. Yeah. I don’t Is that even phys is he wearing lifts in his shoes? Is that what this is then? I like It’s like he’s like he’s young. It’s possible, but like also like do I think he grew three inches? Like no. Like do I want to see if he shows up in camp and he’s like all of a sudden like way taller than Paul Reed? Like yes. Actually I’m I’m actually legit curious to see that. Um but yeah, just I’m a lot more comfortable with how JD plays and fits into the a Pistons team like moving forward. So if they were to give him like the Jabari Smith deal, what is that? What was that? Five years and 122. Five somewhere. Yeah, somewhere in there. Yeah. If if it was five and 125, that’s something that you would do as the Pistons. Uh that’s like that’s a little higher than I would go, but I Yeah, I’d like that deal. I’ again, like I think a Kade Duran pick and roll is like the core of what you want to be doing on offense for the next half decade anyway. So yeah, lock those guys up. How do you feel about because you mentioned like the SR Thompson Jaylen Duran dynamic like you said it impressed you some last year. How do you feel about that long term? And also like how much does that need to inform the urgency of well like we need to have the long-term Tobias Harris in place to ensure that there’s always going to be enough spacing around that. Yeah. Yeah. It Jaylen Duran got a lot better on defense when Assar Thompson showed up. And so I do think that’s that’s a little bit of a symbiotic relationship on on the defensive end. Um which is good. I think that we’ve we’ve kind of always talked about Duran’s passing as this like mythical skill that’s kind of underrated and kind of underutilized. And I think that Assar Thompson, the cutter, like really uh unlock that area of Jaylen Duran’s game. Again, like we saw that a lot uh in the Knicks series. Um so I think like again like we haven’t talked about Assar yet, but like Assar is like really just like the glue and secret sauce that like makes this whole like Pistons team work. And so he’s very very valuable to this team. So it’s good to have players that kind of like work with that and and and Duran is one. Let’s talk about Assar Thompson then. Yes, let’s do that. Uh just just I don’t have if if you’d like to extol his defense a little bit, I’m here for it. I have no notes on there. He would have made all defense had he been eligible last year. I think that’s Did you see the clip of him defending an entire possession against the Hawks? Uh I don’t know if I’ve seen that clip. I’d like to think that I’ve seen all the SR Thompson clips, but is that the one where he’s guarded like eight players? Okay. He’s he guards like he guards he switches like three times, cuts off the ball handler like twice, like rotates, gets the steel, and he’s he’s everywhere on the court and you’re like, how how did this guy how does he do this? How does he do this? And he just does. It’s it’s wild to see. I was at a game Oh, man. What game was this? I think this was I think this was a game against San Antonio and he got the ball. He’s got a steal. He took off on a fast break and my seats are like I’m not I’m not like courtside but like I’m I’m a couple rows up off the court. I thought you were like on the bench. I thought they consulted you. I wish my my buddies have sent me like, “Hey, is this you?” And like you can see me on TV, which is which is kind of funny. Um, but like he jumped and I legit thought he was going to like jump into the crowd like with us. Like he jumped so high. It’s just like you you see this person you see him in person. It’s like this this is an this is an amazing amazing athlete and his anticipation and his uh for lack of a better word like basketball IQ and like sense of like where everything is supposed to be on the court is just like it’s mind-blowing. So I have all the confidence in the world that Sar Thompson’s going to be a really good player. However, he still can’t shoot. The shot looked a little bit more fluid like as the year went on, but it still didn’t go in. Um, his free throw percentage went up, which was good. Good sign, but you still see teams kind of ignore him offensively. Um, and so he has to get creative to contribute offensively. Um, would it be easier to be creative around Assar? Like if he could do one of shoot or dribble at a much higher level like yes like which one I don’t know whichever one he could like pick one do what you got to do like get to the level that you can do it doesn’t I tend to tilt towards what I view as more realistic and so the handle stuff feels like I can see that continuing to improve versus this guy all of a sudden is shooting 36% on three or four spot of three-point attempts per game is sort of where I think that would be more important and also a lot of it’s full floor stuff and when they would put the ball in his hands like they had some really fun offensive plays with him last year and so I think to me that feels more realistic but then it does open up you have to watch who’s around him as well and like defenses are just going to if you ever set a ball screen for him like defenses aren’t going to care. Yeah. Like they’re they’re going to be on the baseline at that point. So, well, it was funny. There were you could see plays where he he’s so athletic that sometimes like it was the Ben Simmons things whereas like if you went too far under all of a sudden like you’re just at the 8 foot mark in the paint and then he’s in the paint too and you’re like oh wait actually I didn’t I didn’t want him to get to the paint but it’s too late. Um and so yeah it’s just so I I do think the handle is probably more realistic. I wonder like I don’t think he needs to shoot like 40% on corner threes or whatever. Um you talked about this uh with Justin Rowan on the Cleveland uh look ahead, but like the reason Isaac Aoro like didn’t work in Cleveland is because like no one cared if he shot 40% on corner threes. They would just like let him do it. And so I do wonder like how good Assar would have to shoot before teams like started to close out on him because once you start drawing the closeouts like that’s when you get the blowbyss like that’s when you get the rotations like that’s when you get the the defense moving and shifting and opening things up for everybody else. Um and I don’t think I think it’d be really difficult for Asar to get to the level where he starts drawing closeouts on a consistent basis. Um I do think that improving the handle is probably easier. Um, but it for me it’s less like oh he needs to tween tween has he like his way like all the way to the basket and more like can you operate in short areas if they do like if they are like sinking under a screen are you able to like jet off the screen get to a spot and like draw help again like are you drawing help? are you making things happen? If uh and if they’re if they’re sinking too low, um it’s like are can we get to a spot where like hey like all of a sudden Duran’s man is up like 12 ft endurance behind him and like then like and then good things are happening and so like yeah I think I think there’s a there’s a definitely that’s what I would be working on if I were him. um underplayed, not underplayed, but like this is his first real full off season after the blood clots he suffered last year, which again like delayed I think he started like the first 30 games of the year. So like that that’s really good. I’m really excited to see that. Um so yeah, I think he he really really matters to this team. He holds the defense together. He contributes just enough on offense. um the havoc and like deflections and steals he creates contributes a lot to what the Pistons want to do in transition. They were one of the most prolific transition teams last year and like he and Ron Holland and uh Jaden Ivy were like a really big part of that and so like and that was part of the their identity was like not getting stuck in half court all the time was like let’s just score like 15 points in transition and call it a day. Um and so he’s he’s really really important to this team to me. He is the second most important player on this team behind Kate Cunningham. I think that’s right. I I guess the argument would be made for Jaden Ivy would be the alternative. I don’t know who would be unless you think Ron Holland can become the second offensive option type of guy, which maybe not rule out, but I think yeah, that feels like the I don’t want to say the only answer, but I just don’t know who you would argue for and feel good about over him. Yeah. Ron Holland, what’ you think of his his rookie season? And now that the jumpers just that one Knicks game did a lot of heavy lifting in summer league for his percentages, but he got him up. He got him up. He looked I was in So I went to Vegas for the first time this year. I got to see Ron Holland up close and personal. I got to dap up his dad and be like, “Your son’s going to be a star and he he got to laugh at that.” Um, but he Ron looked so much more comfortable just like shooting and having the ball in his hands against summer league competition than he did u in uh against like against like real actual NBA competition uh last season. But I hope that comfort and ease translates to like real improvements this season because like what we saw like he was a He was a really good like energy guy. He had these big impact plays. You could feel the like energy in the arena when like he’d get a steal and also like tear down the court on a breakaway. It’s like really cool. He and like the he was like picking guys up full court and like getting guy getting people uh out of rhythm and out of sync. You like to see that. Um the shooting was his shooting was not as like he was much more highly projected as a shooter than a star Thompson. His shooting was real bad real bad last year. Um and so you obviously hope that and he but his shot looks a lot he looks a lot more fluid and comfortable taking shots. They just didn’t go in and so everybody kind of assumes that like he will shoot better which is good. Um, but yeah, like the way he moves, the way he is able to just like move through traffic, move through space. It’s like him and Assara together are kind of a pairing you would like to preserve. I think that, how do I put this? there like there is a world where like Ron becomes the second most important player on the team behind Cade and that world that world involves like Assar not developing like offensively as much as we would like but you got to remember like Ron was a super prospect um went to the Ignite scored 20 points a game in the G-League which I feel like everybody scores 20 points a game in the G-League but like still still not easy right at like 18 years old or whatever he was is still really young is being molded into the type of player that fits alongside the rest of these guys as opposed to like I don’t know getting in like Washington and just being told like hey like get up like 25 shots a game and like let’s see what happens. I think I think that was really valuable for him. um getting getting the coaching staff or getting a a coaching staff that wants him to develop his game in a sustainable way as opposed to getting in a coaching staff where it’s like, “Yeah, man. Just just like let’s see what you can do.” Um I think will make his game like more sustainable and efficient. The I wonder about positionality. He’s he’s still young, so it’s time for his body to fill out, but he’s kind of lean and like if you look at his dad, his dad’s kind of lean. So even if he’s 6’8, like I don’t know if he’s going to be like banging bodies at the four for his entire career. Um and so it’s like all right and so you start putting things together. So it’s like okay Adasar Ivy Duran Ron like is that lineup does that lineup have enough size to compete when you see teams like you know Houston deciding to go double big all the time or uh Milwaukee like going with uh Turner and Giannis and Portoris maybe all at the same time or you see like even like a Denver right with um Joic and Aaron Gordon and uh Cam Johnson’s like all these dudes are big, right? And so I do wonder like uh he his body needs to fill out to kind of play the position that would benefit the Pistons most. I don’t know if that benefits him most, but like that’s where that’s where we end up. Um and so I I do wonder about that. But like otherwise like I think his role for this team. Uh we we talked a little bit about how like there’s a there’s a sliding scale between like development and trying to win. And the Pistons did a really good job integrating Ron Holland last year, getting him minutes, having him play. I believe he played 81 games last year. The only game he didn’t play was because he was suspended for that thing in Minnesota that was kind of BS. That’s right. Um, and so like the there isn’t as much or like because he did it last year, I believe there also like isn’t wiggle room to go with like how that uh that goes this year. But it will be I don’t my hope is that we get to a place where like not only is it development, but he continues to contribute and expands his offensive role to where like teams are actually forced to guard him, right? but still probably ends up doing it for bench lineups this season. I I think it almost has to be that way where he’s doing it for the bench lineup just because long term one of him or Assar Thompson’s going to need to develop into a more dynamic perimeter off it like that. You mentioned drawing closeouts otherwise the dynamic between having those two and Jaylen Durn it’s like those three just barely injuries factored into some of that but with Osar Thompson but they just barely played together last year. Even Assar and Holland I think were under 300 out possessions under garbage time. Yeah. Outside of garbage time, excuse me. And so two of them of those three on the floor I think you can make work. Like you’ll figure it out. But like the three of them like that’s where it would start to get you’re putting a lot on those other two players like in terms of their offensive lifts that are on the court with those three. Yeah. J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J JB was really reticent to put Ron and Assar on the floor at the same time even though like Ron Assar Duran is probably like the closest thing you can or like Ron Assar Stewart is probably like the best like defensive lineup you could if you just want defense that’d be like the core of the best defensive lineup you could put on the floor. Um and so it’s like yeah like I would have liked to see that look a little bit more last season. I hope we get to see it a little bit more this season, but it really does depend on Ron in particular developing as a shooter. Again, like I think I don’t think Assar gets there. I don’t know if it matters or not if Assar gets there. And like I’ I’d come to the games pregame and I’d see JD like taking like 17footers and it’s like maybe that works, maybe it doesn’t. I don’t love that. Um, so it really relies on Ron Holland developing as a shooter to make some of the spacing on those lineups work. Kate Cunningham, he was like kind of important to this team. I don’t know, a little bit. What struck you most about his sort of I think it was an arrival for many, it was affirmation for others, but what just struck you most about how he improved last year? You okay, so if you want to talk about arrival, you know what was really funny, Dan? watching his free throw weight just like spike after he was named to the All-Star team. Just like the dumbest thing in the world, it’s like, “Oh, this guy’s an all-star.” Like, he could finally get the calls we’ve been begging for for the last two and a half years. I don’t think his foul rate ended up being that much higher, though, in the grand scheme of last season. Did it? I know it went up a little bit. I didn’t think it was up like precipitously. I have to double check that. It was a after check pre and post Allstar break. It was uh it was something we noticed at least. Um but yeah, no, he he was really effective last year. The thing uh the thing that I was most swayed by was how much it seemed like this was his team now and how that belief in himself and the team’s belief in him kind of grew and swelled as the season went along. Um there were like really there were big moments early in the season where he came through for them in a way that made you feel like okay this is something that we can expect of him. There was the there was the two there was the two-way sequence against Atlanta where he like drove past Dyson Daniels finished with the left uh that gets the bucket. Tough bucket for claims the lead. They call timeout. They come out they they uh they run a set like somehow uh a Congru ends up with the ball under the basket. Kade blocks it to seal the game. And it’s just like stuff like that like just did not happen before. And that’s the the sign that like again like this is a guy who makes those things happen and like helps preserve wins. Um are there areas to improve? Like yeah, absolutely. I think you saw his three-point shooting to me is the area in which I want to see the most improvement. I know for the longest time we’ve talked about turnovers uh in his handle. his handle got better last year, but there were still some kind of questionable decisions that I think are after three years. I’m just kind of baking those into the rest of the cake. Um, but you saw last year in the playoffs, um, when team when the Knicks no longer felt like they had to perceive as a threat from three, the his offensive effectiveness dropped. And it wasn’t like bad. It was just like it was not good enough. I think he shot 17% from three in the playoff series which like just isn’t good enough. Um you would hope that the addition or like the reintegration of Jaden Ivy and Caris Levert maybe helps him get off the ball a little bit especially after the Jaden Ivy injury. It was a lot of like just him dribbling like making uh making acquisition was a breath of fresh air like for that exact reason. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s not like Shruder was like the heaviest paint touch guy in the world, right? But like they they really needed someone else who could just dribble the basketball while he was on the on the court. And so like and he was I believe he’s a much bet much better spot-up shooter than than off the dribble shooter. Like same as most case for everybody. Um, but you really see he wants to play the game like 18 feet and in. He wants to drive or he wants he wants to get guys on his hip. He wants to post. He wants to get those jump hooks like back to the middle or he wants to like come off a screen like diagnose what the defense is doing and get like lobs and endurance or spray the ball out to shooters. And the big step for him is getting more comfortable coming off screens set higher on the floor and like taking pull-up threes, right? And making those pull-up threes. Um there’s a lot of complaints about how Anthony and uh Anthony Edwards was just like taking 12 threes a game, but like that really opened up the rest of the floor for everybody else on the Wolves. We saw that a lot I think uh in the what was there? What was their second round series? Not not the Lakers, but uh the Clipper. Were they the Clippers team? No. What is it? They What is time? Golden State. Golden State. Golden State. Yeah, you saw that. You saw that a lot in the Golden State series um in my mind. And so it’s like that would that would be the thing where I would want Kade to improve the most. And I think I think he knows that. Um I think he knows that. Do you think that they’re built if you have Levert, if you have Ivy, if you’re maybe want to let Assar do a little bit more, are they built to give him more of those like call them either in-game breaks or like lightening his or diversifying his offensive workload better than they were last year? I think so. I think so. Yeah. Um I think there’s there’s a lot more uh he’s not a bad like offball screener, so I think there’s putting more shooting around him. there’s and having more ball handlers labels him to like set some screens and make some stuff happen on defense. Um I I would like to see them lean a little bit more into a Sar Thompson as a ball handler uh while Kad’s on the floor because you you want those guys playing together as opposed to like not opposed to a Levert, but I I see more lineups and where like Levert’s on the floor and Kade isn’t than like lineups where like both of both of those two guys are on the floor. Um, but yes, I do think they have currently they like have enough to get there. Like if Levert gets hurt again or like, god forbid, like Ivy gets hurt again or is delayed in his recovery or something, then like that starts to look a little rickety, right? The the Marcus Sasser kid cutting him minutes were were not amazing. We had the Tobias Harris discussion already. Stewart was also super important to this team last year. I think when you’re looking at what struck people the most as they look and they just saw like he wasn’t a three a three-point shooter anymore. And I know that he traffked in low volume, high hesitance type of looks, but if you ever want to get to a point, you mentioned this before too, where you want to have a Sar Thompson and Ron Holland on the court together and lean into all defense, I could see those shots from Stew spot becoming pretty important. Is there a chance that we see him get back to more of that or what went into deciding to have him not? I know he’s playing the five more now, so that helped. But I’m just curious as to what was it that much of a nonweapon or the the payoff wasn’t that great that they don’t want to use him in that way anymore. I don’t know if it was a payoff thing. I think it was more of an identity thing. They asked Stu to expend a lot of energy on uh defense and so having him kind of just like set screens in space was fine. Uh but he was much more effective as like a DHO hub, right? As a guy who’s setting screens to free up Malik Beasley to make shots. Um I think that additionally like especially after the Jaden Ivy injury, like Dennis, like Marcus Sassar and Dennis Shruder again like aren’t like the heaviest paint touch guys in the world. So, it’s not like he had like the best P&R chemistry to to work with to be a great diver or a great pick and pop guy. Um, you’d see lineups where it was like Shruder who’s like a good not great three-point shooter, Malik Beasley who’s like drawing all the defens’s attention, like Ron Stew, and like one other guy. And you’d see the defense just be like, “All right, like we’ll we’ll pack the paint. like you you guys can do whatever. And there were definitely opportunities for Steuart to take some of those shots that I felt like he didn’t take because like Malik Beasley was just like shooting flames out of his hands. And so the the better call was to get like to come up. My guy’s in the paint. I’m going to get the ball. I’m going to set a screen. Like I’m going to get Malik Beasley an open shot. We’ve seen like like workout summer workouts or summer workouts, but we’ve seen a little bit more of the like shot uh the shooting like take precedence in Stewart’s workouts this offseason. I hope they return to some of that. I don’t ever think he’ll be like I don’t ever think he’ll be like Miles Turner, but like yeah, I do think I do think that there’s like there’s some there there with like some offensive diversity with Stu. Uh with Tobias, like Tobias was great last year. Tobias was everything. You could have made the case he was their second. If you were going wire to wire, he could have been their second most important player. Sar Thompson comes back and was like that when you’re factoring in sort of a wireto-wire impact. It might have been him. Yeah. And the the difference when Harris could play and when he couldn’t play was like was was very noticeable. And again, it’s it’s I think it’s more of a function that they didn’t have a guy who they didn’t have another guy who really did what hot what Tobias could do. They don’t have they still don’t have another like w like wingsized wing player who can dribble pass and shoot, right? They they have guys who can dribble. They have guys who can they have like wing sized players who can shoot and like you can put Duncan on the wing. Um but they don’t they don’t really have anybody who can do all three and Tobias can do all three. With that said, Tobias is getting he’s getting up there. Um, he was definitely like he he played the Knicks series like really feistily, but I thought he slowed down a little as the season went on and they were asking him to do a lot, so it’s totally understandable. Um, but and he’s a really important player for this team, but you would like him to be less important, not because of anything he’s doing wrong or anything, but because like that would mean other guys had made strides to put them like higher on the food chain, right? Yeah. And it’s also just I think when they signed him initially, whatever people thought about the value of the deal, it’s like, oh, well, that’s sort of a contract that’s built to trade if they make a bigger move. And it’s no, you don’t overthink getting rid of Tobias Harris, whether it’s in a trade or he’s going to be a free agent next summer, but you don’t have his like unless you’re really a believer in Bobby Clintman, like you don’t have that replacement lined up for him. So, I like there’s not even anyone on the roster who really like checks two of the boxes that he gives you. And the most important thing from that spot just based off some of the players you have on the wing is just like the shooting and like the respect that he provides from the perimeter. And so I have found it fascinating that they haven’t looked to I guess change that up, but I also don’t know like what is the opportunities that they actually passed on that we would have been sitting here and you praising them for making that move, right? It’s like you know Nasreed wasn’t really an option. Uh like I I was kind of crossing my fingers and hoping like maybe uh like a Jiren Jackson Jr. or something like shook loose in the offseason. Not really an option. Uh the draft uh there were some interesting prospects. Uh Bryce Simon of Motor City Hoops and formerly of Detroit Bad Boys and the Pistons Bulls, great guy. He was all in on Maxine Reo, the like seven foot uh kid from Stanford. Uh okay. Like that would that would have been cool as a as a guy who could both like shoot and protect the rim and like was a little bit more mobile then you’d expect a 7-3 guy to go. they like he didn’t uh they didn’t end up going in that direction. That was a little disappointing actually. Um so they still kind of don’t have that answer on the roster. Like again like if you squint like maybe it’s Ron Holland. If you squint like real hard like maybe it’s Bobby Clintman. You probably you probably just need to close your eyes if if it’s Bobby Clintman. Um but they don’t it is still kind of a roster issue that they don’t have that guy. if something happens to Tobias like injury-wise um and again like he’s you know on the he’s on the wrong side of 30 um it becomes really tough Green’s show right Javvante Green get on in there JB probably loves him some Javvante Green I love Javvante Green he’s so scrappy has like sneaky popped him I’m all in I think Javvante Green is an NBA player I’m all in on Javvante Green if Javvante was 67 instead of 6’4 like I’d be right there I’d be right there with you. But like, yeah, as the case stands, like if something happens to Tobias, like they they kind of don’t have any like way of replicating that, then you’re you’re starting if that happens, you’re starting to get into like, all right, do we like start Stew and like try and do that weird dance again? Do we start Ron Holland and ask uh him to guard fours that he’s probably like too small to guard at this point in his career? And just like toughen up for 15 games, man. I’m like, “Sorry about that.” Um, do you go small uh and play like Duncan Robinson at the four or something? It’s just like you lean more heavily into the offense side of things than uh you perhaps like because of the injury. So, yeah. Yeah. Tobias is sneakily like very very important to this team. Can we go through some of the other young guys slash unknowns on this roster and just get your thoughts and expectations for them moving forward? Let’s do Let’s start with clearly your favorite player on this roster, Marcus Sasser. I feel so bad because Marcus Sasser is not a bad NBA player. I I don’t know if I I don’t know if I’ve used this term in the podcast before, but I feel like Marcus Sasser is like a quadruple NBA player where it’s like he’s too good for the G-League, but he’s not quite good enough to be somebody’s like full-time backup point guard. size limits him to playing the point guard position when like he’s really more of an of an offball guy or like an isolation scorer than like a playmaker for others. Um he shot the ball pretty well. He’s a good enough shooter to where you feel comfortable like having him on the floor. But yeah, the the lack of playmaking for others uh paired with like he was build as this like really good under undersized but really good guard defender like coming out of school. We haven’t seen that. He’s been like fine. Not like amazing but fine. Um, and so I was like, “Yeah, he’s he’s fine.” Um, I would honestly I would like to see him traded, not because like I don’t want him on the team, but because I think like if he if he were playing for like Charlotte or the Wizards, like he would that would be put him in a position to where like he could showcase more of his his offensive skills and perhaps like do better for himself from like a contract perspective. But like yeah, on this team he’s probably not going to get to do that unless there’s like a slew of injuries and even then like his limitations uh would shine out more than uh what he his capabilities do. Uh where are we at with Clintman? It seems I know where you’re at with him. He’s a kind of sometimes the way he moves away from the ball just and I was in on him my very cursory scouting process. I was in on him last year entering last year, excuse me. I wish he was better. Like he the he is it’s it’s hard to find guys that size who move the way he does and can pass the way he does. He’s a really He’s a really good passer. Really creative and inventive passer, but the shots don’t go in as much as you’d like them to. And he’s not as good with the ball in his hands as a driver as you’d otherwise like him to be. And so right now he’s kind of just like a he’s like a high post efficient uh passer who can like move and get out in transition and impact the game that way, but like otherwise he kind of doesn’t do that much. Uh I thought his summer league was was pretty disappointing on on the whole. Um, and so I hope if for if uh for him my thing would be like go be a like 45% shooter from three in the G-League and get to a place where it’s like we know what you do. You rebound and you shoot and like that is the thing you do, right? And if you can do that, like there could probably be an NBA spot for you. Like so maybe not in Detroit, maybe somewhere else, but like if you if you can shoot that well and move that well, pass that well and rebound, like there’s a spot for you in the league. Uh, I do get the sense that Pistons fans are in love with Tou Smith. Are you among those? I like Tulu. Uh, he’s a little undersized, which is a problem, but uh, he has he has great energy. Um, is a good rim protector despite being undersized. I thought he played pretty well in summer league. And he really importantly like he knows his role. He never tries to do anything like outside of the role of like uh rim running rim protecting like big man which is really valuable because like you you’ve been to summer league Dan you see these like guys who are like hey man like I’m trying to get paid like I can do stuff and it’s like it this is not good basketball. So I really appreciate that to kind of knows his role. Um yeah. Where are you at with Donnis Jenkins? Don Shening has really impressed me in summer league. He was probably the most impressive player. He was the standout player of summer league to me. Um because he made uh he looked a lot more comfortable as a shooter. I don’t remember his G-League numbers off the top of my head, but I don’t think he was like a great shooter in the G-League last year, but he is taller than Sasser, a worse shooter, but a better playmaker than Sasser, and somehow like a better defender than Sasser, or I saw him make more impact plays in summer league on the defensive side of the ball than I’ve seen like Marcus Sasser do. And so there’s a legitimate case to make that like Dennis Jenkins should probably be the third point guard on this team if um Oh, okay. If one of those like if if one of those guys wasn’t was an undrafted free agent and the other one was the like guy you traded up to the 27th pick or whatever in the draft to get like maybe the roles would be reversed. But as you know, but as right now as it stands, like J Dennis is probably destined for another season in the G-League, but I’m definitely like keeping my eye on him. He he popped a lot in summer league. I’m keeping my eye on Chaz Laneir. I know the percentages weren’t there in summer league, but I just I think he’s going to be a really good shooter. the way he’s able to move Matt the court away from the ball, even some of the stuff that he’s able to do as a trailer getting into his pull-up twos. I’m actually a pretty big believer in him. Do you share those thoughts at all? I don’t. I’m sorry, Dan. No. And so I I do think Chaz can be a really good shooter. He was a really good shooter in college. Um and like I thought he played slightly disappointingly in Vegas. Uh, but that was just because I go off vibes from Vegas to where it’s I just throw the percentages out the window and if I like the way the player moves or it’s like if I think they can get the shots up and they’ll eventually go in. That’s that’s my at least if you’re a rookie and sometimes if you’re a sophomore, if you were a good, you know, if you’re coming out of a role had Ron Holland been bad in summer league, that’s okay. Like we’re a little concerned. Yeah, man. Um, but I just go off the vibes for most of the rookies. So the the nice thing you can say is like he’s a second round guy. like if he doesn’t work, it’s not the worst thing in the world. What I will say is uh so my read pre-draft on Chaz was that like even if he works, he’s kind of just a shooter and you probably needed a little bit more ball handling or playmaking or defense like from that kind of role. um the level of shooter you have to get to in order to uh contribute at the NBA level if all you do is shoot is so high that I think that’s like an unreasonable burden to place on a second rounder. And so I would have preferred them get, you know, another player in like the the Bobby Clintman like phenotype, right? I would have preferred like maybe another center because like I like Paul Reed. Paul Reed’s great. I don’t know if Paul Reed is like an actual like center center, right? No, he’s he’s 69, right? So, he’s pretty small. Yeah. And so, I was like there there were other options I thought they could have gone at at that spot that like even if they don’t work out from a like talent development perspective, like maybe they work out from like a roster redundancy perspective. As it stands right now, like I don’t know, Chaz is going to spend a lot of time with the with the G-League team and shooting 50% from three. He’s going to have enough five assist games to make you believe. I could feel it. We’re going to circle back next year and you’re going to say, “I think third guard.” That’s right. I hope you’re right. I hope you’re right. Are you ready to enter the cookie cutterning round portion of the podcast? Delicious. Let’s do it. So, you’ve already I think hinted at where your pick is going to be, but uh since this is the cookie cutter portion, what is this team’s biggest weakness to you when just looking at them on paper? Yeah, it’s that it’s that four spot. It’s the spot behind Tobias and replacing Tohias Harris like if he gets hurt. Um, again, like I I don’t know what they really do. You’re you’re doing a you’re running a patch job at that point if something goes wrong at that spot. So, that’s something I I’d like to I’m just keeping my eye on for future roster construction purposes. Is there anything about this team strength storyline that’s flying under the radar right now that you think should be discussed more? So, I think I think the the cont Did I steal it already? Did we talk too much about I think the the contract extension situation is getting like a little underplayed. like there there’s such good vibes around the team that like nobody wants to like ruin the vibes, but like there’s definitely if you if you start losing games and it does become more of a like hey like uh like what’s going to happen with my contract? Like am I going to end up like we’re going to do this? We’re going to lose like and I’m going to have to take the qualifying offer. I do think there’s a potential for for downside there that’s getting underplayed. Um, it’d be nice to just like kind of get that resolved, make uh get everybody happy or just like figure out like what some trade scenarios, right? Not not my preferred scenario, but like a thing you probably have to think about. I’ve also wondered I think this applies a lot to the what are they doing after Tobias Harris or behind Tobias Harris. It’s so tough to answer that question without knowing how the season’s unfolding. I’m curious as to what their appetite will be to improve in the middle of the season because are you at a point where you think you’re again it will depend on record but if you’re sitting fifth fourth in the East because there’s probably I think there’s probably two or three teams that you can sit here with absolute certainty and say they will be better than the Pistons next year and so if you’re in that range of like four or five are you looking at like oh are we moving another first round pick or are we like are we giving up on one of the prospects that hasn’t some maybe it’s it’s an Ivy, is it a is it a Duran, but you don’t really have a long-term center behind Duran right now. So, I find they’re they’re a very good team. They have a lot of different options moving forward with the future, but I don’t know that you could point to just like the expendable salary is supposed to be Tobias Harris and it’s not at this point. And I think you can now make the case is like is that Duncan Robinson’s functionality? But if you don’t have Malik Beasley on the roster, how like So it’s that’s what’s fascinating to me is this feels like maybe they might fut and fiddle and do something small. Um but if they are even like good and they’re not great and there might be opportunities, it just feels like they’re going to kind of I don’t know what the word is go through this season without considering any serious type of transactions no matter how good they are or maybe how much some people think they need it. Yeah, it it does very much seem like it’s like we still want to see what we got season, but it’s like you made the playoffs last year and there’s definitely there’s space in the conference for you to ascend if you were willing to press the accelerator a little harder, right? But like like you mentioned though, like that would involve probably trading one of the young guys and like yeah, Tobias and Duncan Robinson are like your salary flatsom. Maybe even like a Caris Levert if you’re getting back like an equivalent like ball handler in the deal. Or if like a Jaden Ivy proves himself capable of like just being a primary man ball handler half the time. It’s like okay in a way in a way that makes Levert expendable. You’re like, “Okay, cool. We can do that.” But yeah, there is not a lot of like trade pieces on this roster. Yeah, I I feel like it’ll just end up being a flyer to where it’s like are they heat and I don’t think they are, but like are they just willing to like they’re done with Nicole Yoic at some point because they’re so cap space pill for 2027. And I was also trying to think like what is the player like yeah they’d be a fun Giannis team, but I’m talking like a non-star type or someone who’s close to it to where if I’m the Pistons, it would really get me to like want to make a move. moving. The name I came up with was if the Hawks blow it up and like Jaylen Johnson just ambles his way onto the market and even then it’s they might view him as like the tent pole to build around for the future. But it’s there’s again there there are names that you could say like oh no no the Pistons should definitely but I was trying to think of just like what is the name that might be getable that would get the Pistons to think you you want the name Dan? Yes. So the the the other guy that came kind of came up in conversations as people were talking these offseason was Lori Markin, right? A guy who spaces the floor um is is in the like the good age range, plays the right position. Um the problem is the contract. He makes a lot of money for a guy who if everything like again with Duran and Assar and like Ron, you you’d be able to build kind of a cohesive like defensive unit like around Lori. But like if you’re paying Lori 50 million and you’re paying Cade 50 million and you’re paying Duran like 24 25ish and then a SARS extension comes up and you’re like all of a sudden you’re like wait like this is a lot of money. Yeah. like how like how good is this team? It’s like that that part’s tricky, right? Ideally, you’d want a version of Lori Markin that made $30 million instead of like 48 or whatever he makes now. Yeah, there’s I I don’t I mean, if you could get him and it’s not a ton of value, but you’re right like the contract if you’re planning on keeping I even just one of Ivy andor D like because you have Holland and Assara coming up behind them, it gets super complicated. Yeah. What about this is I don’t this would be the guy but I don’t believe that he’s available even though there was that report like Trey Murphy would be an excellent fit. Oh yeah for this roster. I just can’t imagine that he’s available. Although I don’t know with Troy. We do have all Troy Weaver’s favorite players right. That is that is the advantage the Pistons have. It’s like we we know who he likes. That is like Troy Weaver really loves Isaiah Stewart. It’s like you put Isaiah Stewart in a Trey Murphy deal. like you and you get Kevon Looney back like may maybe you start to cook a little bit, right? Okay. So, this actually feels like a pretty easy exercise for this team, but what’s the 10-man rotation? It feels like there’s just nine locks of these guys will be getting regular minutes and there might be some fighting towards the bottom of the barrel. Yeah. Yeah, it’s So, your starters are most likely Cade, Ivy, Assar, Tobias, Duran. Your bench is most likely like Caris, Duncan, Stew, Ron, question mark. Um, perhaps that question mark perhaps that question mark is Malik Beasley, Dan. Uh, perhaps that question mark is is Marcus Sasser, right? Uh, perhap I don’t think they’ll go with a nineman rotation. They liked the full bench lineups last year. I was in favor of that. I think that that preserved guys. I think that preserved Kade and that preserved Tobias in ways that you like you probably want to continue. Um so yeah, I do think that there’s like there’s some potential there for uh for 10-man rotations. Um yeah, maybe maybe that’s a maybe that’s maybe early in the season that’s like a Bobby Clintman as a way to say like, hey, like maybe he didn’t have the best summer league, but we need to run this out to like see what he’s got before things go forward. Um, maybe that’s something a little funky like, hey, like, hey Paul, like you you played pretty well like when we asked you to last year, like how would you like to just like be a like weird double big lineup with Stew and like one of you gets to take like two threes per 36 possessions? It’s like stuff can happen, right? Uh, but yeah, the the nineman core like seems pretty locked in and that question mark remains a mystery. This is to some extent matchup dependent, but what do you think winds up being their go-to closing unit? Is it just the starters or is there a spot or two that you could see them futing and fiddling with? I think it’s probably just the starters. Um Ivy is the most funible where like maybe if you need some more defense, uh it’s Ron or something like that. If you need some more shooting, like maybe it’s Duncan Robinson or something like that. Um, but I’d probably they probably want to close with their starting lineup most of the time. Is there a weirdo lineup you want to see JB Bicker staff trying this year? There you So Dan, I’ve, you know, I’ve been begging for years for a lineup where Kade is more double bigs. Yeah, that Dan, I had to watch Marvin Bagley and James Wiseman. Like, don’t do this to me. No, I’ve been begging for for years for a lineup where Kade is the smallest guy on the floor. Um, and like you have enough like and he is like maybe the worst defender, right? So like if you’re you’re conceiving that now like he probably can’t be the worst defender in this lineup, but you can put together like a Kade Duncan Assar Ron Duran lineup that like kind of like fits that narrative. You can put together if if you want to like space the floor a little bit more, you could put together like a Cade Duncan Robinson uh Tobias Ron like Stewart lineup and just encourage Stewart to like shoot stay out on the perimeter and like keep this floor the floor spaced. But yeah, like that’s that’s a weird that’s the weirdest lineup. And like you you could I mean like you could play Stewart and Dur together. We saw how that went. actually didn’t go terribly, but like that that would be funky. I don’t know if I’d like it. It would be funky. Paul Reed at the three maybe then in those minutes. Yeah, I know. Dan, give me your lineup because I know you’re playing like Sasser, Ivy, and Cade like all in the in the back court together with like Assar at the four. My lineup doesn’t have Cade because I just want to see Assar Thompson as like let’s try to juice up his playmaking. So, I would have Stewart, Robinson, Harris, and then I’m gonna just throw Chaz Laneir in there because I think that he could really shoot and then it’s a Sar Thompson. It’s just I’m having Stewart like he’ll space on some occasion. So then I view it as a SAR plus four shooters. Now, if Malik Beasley’s back, I will allow him to replace Chaz Laneir in that lineup. I’ll allow it. Um it’ll take a lot out of me, but but I will for sure allow it. Yeah. Okay. I I like the conceptualization of that lineup. Yeah, and that’s definitely a lineup where it’s like Assar has to do all the ball handling because nobody else is no levert, no Ivy, no K. That was on purpose. That wasn’t an over. So before I force you to make some predictions, are there is there anything else anyone else uh on this team about this team that we have not discussed that you think warrants conversation? So this would be the spot where I bring up Danis Jenkins, but because you are so thorough, you already had him in. So, no, we’re good. Uh, is that is he like if you’re looking at kind of the guy the guys that could be like surprise, oh, they’re in the rotation as like a tenth or ninth man, is that your pick for it? Do you think it could be Smith and then it’s oh like he’s on a two-way, like we’re going to have to convert that? No, I definitely think like Dan Jenkins could be a surprise. It would not shock me if like training camp comes out and you’re hearing a lot of like like Dannis Jenkins looks looks really good in training camp. like he’s clawing minutes like he’s clawing his way into lineups that we didn’t expect him to. It’s like why? And like you’re you come to the first preseason game and you’re like wait why is why are Dannis Jenkins and Jaden Ivy on the floor together? Like that’s kind of weird. It’s like hm what what are they cooking? I I definitely think that there’s there’s possibility there. Yes. So predictions time. How many games do you see them winning and where do you see them landing in the regular season standings for the Eastern Conference? All right. This is this is the tough thing. So, let’s level set expectations, right? You lose, you you get the six seed, you avoid the playin, you lose in the first round of the playoffs last season. For me, the goal this year should should be for this team to win a first round playoff series. That should be the goal. You should look to advance in the playoffs. What What makes that goal easier? A, staying out of the playin, just like, you know, not having to worry about any of the BS that can or can’t happen in the playin. B, getting home court. Getting home court matters if you’re trying to win an actual playoff series. So, to do that, you have to win in the regular season. And you have to win probably in the neighborhood of like 45 to 47 games in the regular season. To me, that should be what the Pistons like shoot for. They should shoot for being like a 50- win team. land short of that, try and get the four seed and like win your first round home court series. That should be the goal this season. Do I think they can do I think they do that? No, I don’t. I don’t think they do that. I think between the improvements that the Magic made this offseason from a roster perspective, between like the wholesale revamp thing the Hawks have going on, the Hawks are really good. um and looked uh like I I was not a Jaylen Johnson person. Like he convinced me last year they really missed him. Getting him back will be huge. And then obviously you’ve got like uh you got Cleveland, you got New York, you got uh you got Milwaukee who Giannis Turner and dudes. Yeah. like like I’m always reticent to count out Milwaukee ahead of the Pistons because the Pistons have just never been able to beat Giannis in any way, shape, or form. Even like other teams can, but like we can’t. So like it’s easy for me to be like, “All right, like maybe that’s like the fourth seed and like we get the fifth seed and I hate that playoff matchup, right?” But yeah, I I would like for the Pistons to get into a spot where they’re the fourth seed or higher. I don’t think they get there, but like for me, if uh I hope they prove me wrong. I hope I’m in a space where they prove me wrong. I think for them it’s like them maybe more so than any team in the Eastern Conference. Uh yeah, because like Orlando pushed all its chips in. Like progress isn’t linear. And so if they end up winning like 41 or 42 games, but you come away thinking like Ron Holland shot really well from the floor and we got more out of offense from Assar and Jaden Ivy looked really good both with and without Kate Cunningham and it just broke. Things just broke wrongly in the East. That still can count as progress and I think that’s probably what fans need to remember. But they’re also in a spot where I don’t know where I would put them in the standings exactly, but how many teams we’re sitting here today in early September would you be prepared to guarantee are going to be better than them in the East next season? Like it’s probably three. Yeah, it’s like Cleveland, New York, and a possible. Yeah. Orlando or Atlanta maybe. And then like I don’t know what to feel about the Sixers. I’m never going to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point, but they’re the mother of all wild cards. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Sixers are really little, by the way. Like without Embiid, it’s a lot of That’s a lot of guards. A lot of guards. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know the dynamic between and I’m assuming Quinton Grimes will be back. We’re still waiting for that whole situation to play out. So, what’s the matchup if you’re looking at this through a postseason lens that either concerns you or you would find most fascinating? Again, as of early September, this is something that could of course change. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. The the matchup I’d be most afraid of is again the Milwaukee Matchup. just never an answer for y that Giannis guy. Uh maybe there I have an answer. Play him next to Kyle Kosma and there’s the Pistons answer. That’s how you just like mind control Doc into playing Koozma 35 minutes again. You don’t It’s Doc. You don’t got to mind control him into doing anything like that. No. Uh but like good matchups. Uh I think like we we saw this in the playoffs. They match up sneakily like pretty well with New York. Um I they played Cleveland very competitively I believe in like three out of the four games this season. Um is that a matchup I like want? No. But like I don’t think that’s like an atrocious matchup for them. Um, I want to see how Indiana restructures things without Hallebertton and without Turner. But, uh, Jhoff is there, so I think they’ll run everything through him is my guess. But we’ll see. Those were also some like pretty fun, pretty competitive games last season. I’d be curious to see more of that. um in Atlanta. Uh Atlanta, they beat Atlanta a lot last year because Kade can post up Trey and that’s like it’s really funny to watch them like scramble everything so that doesn’t happen and then Kade just like makes it happen. Anyway, um but Atlanta’s like, you know, restructured their whole team and everything and like maybe Chris Tops plays, maybe Christophs doesn’t play and like that changes the whole matchup or whatever. But yeah, like that that’s another team. Um Orlando’s too damn big. Too damn big. That’s my pick though is I feel like somebody would like be put in the hospital during that between a Pistons Magic series that would be, you know, you thought like Pistons Knicks was really physical, but I just feel like Pistons Magics would be a whole different type like a different You imagine Isaiah Stewart playing like if he’s healthy and playing in that series, my god. So like Stewart will be guarding Paulo by game three and it’s just like just like chest to chest. Just like a war every possession for 24 seconds because that’s how long it takes Pablo to get to a shot. But not anymore. He’s got some space to work with now. Maybe not enough, but I don’t think it’ll take him that long anymore. But yeah, I’m with you. I would I’m begging for that team to get out in transition more. That was one of the fun things about what Kade and the Pistons were doing last year. Um, so can I get one more prediction from you about this Piston squad? Could be anything. You can take it wherever you want. Jaylen Duran signs an extension before the deadline. Jaden Ivy does not. That’ll create an awkward dynamic in the locker room. Yes. Yes, it would. I thought it was going to be more of like an all or nothing proposition with them to where it’s, oh, both of them will get an extension or nobody’s getting an extension. I think I think Trade Lang is very pragmatic. I think it’s the I think the gap between what both sides want is smaller on the Duran side and I think that like as you get into camp, you like mix stuff up, you see these guys play together again, you’re like, “All right, like let’s let’s make this happen.” Whereas I think like Jaden Ivy like has more to prove, can prove more, is capable of proving more. And so it’s easier for me to see a scenario where he’s like, “No, like I’m going to ball out this year. Like we’re going to win 50 games. I’m gonna ball out and I’m gonna make $30 million a year. And it’s like, yeah, man. Gossby. Like, go for it. But I I don’t know if uh Tan Lane wants to give you $30 million a year. So, we’ll see. If you’re predicting Dur gets an extension, I’m going to set the over under on his contract at $24 million on average per year. You take the over or the under on that? I’m I’m going to take the over. I say it’s like 25ish. Four years, $101 million a year. Just get the little extra spread out. He’s making 25.25 million a year. Yeah. Yeah, get the tiny extra. So like when like so when Mark Williams signs for like four for 90, you can have JD like and his agent kind of like dap each other up and be like, “See, we did better than this guy.” Right. If the Suns give Mark Williams four years and $90 million after giving up a first, oh my god, put it past Matt. Put it past Matt HBO. Put it past him. No, I won’t put anything past that dude. Uh Laz, this was great. I like Matt. Matt, if if you by chance are like are listening to this, just like pour more money into Michigan State NIL. Like that’s what we need. Like stop wasting your time with these Phoenix Suns dudes. Like your money would be served better. Like making everything about the Spartan Stadium experience like better. Put more money in the NIL Collective. Okay, I’m done. Thanks. Rather than trying to hire people with Michigan ties to help him better. It’s like if if you want to be in Michigan, just come back to Michigan, bro. Like we got you. just write the check. He’s willing to write checks. He’s also willing to His having the cell phone was like one of my favorite like social media posts of forever. He’s just he’s reacting to ESPN saying the Suns are going to regress. He’s like, “Yeah, well, they thought we were going to be good last year.” Shows up we showed them. It’s like is that what you Okay. Okay. Okay. Laz, this was fantastic as always and thank you as always for giving me so much of your time. Are you able just to tell all our watchers, listeners, subscribers, audience members, whatever, where they can find you and any work that you would like to plug at this No. Thank you, Dan, once again for having me. You said this was year seven, which feels wild to me. I feel uh so valued and blessed that after all these years, you’re still like, you know what, I want to talk to that last guy about the Detroit Pistons. That means a lot. And look, I just appreciate that you have a low bar for appreciating stuff. That’s all I’m saying. You can still find me on the social medias, last chance, that’s laz. Uh, you can still find anything that I have time to write at Detroit Bad Boys, which Vox like re or SB like recently like redid some stuff on the site. It looks pretty cool. Shout out to Fearless Sean Corp for pulling everything together with that. And then uh I’d like to shout out uh Bryce Simon of Motor City Hoops uh who does a really great job just like expanding the Pistons content space and is uh one of the dudes that like I just like really love talking to about basketball. So shout out to Bryce. Thank you again, Laz. As you know by now, I’ll be pestering you again in the future. Can’t wait. [Music]
Dan is joined by Laz Jackson (@lazchance) from Detroit Bad Boys for a deep dive into the 2025-26 Detroit Pistons. CHAPTERS BELOW.
GET ALL OF OUR 2025-26 NBA SEASON LOOKAHEAD EPISODES HERE⬇️
SUPPORT THE SHOW BY PURCHASING HARDWOOD KNOCKS MERCH⬇️
https://hardwood-knocks-shop.fourthwall.com/?
JOIN THE HARDWOOD KNOCKS DISCORD⬇️
https://discord.com/invite/vFF4kKPMdb
🍎LISTEN ON APPLE PODCASTS⬇️
http://apple.co/2iIw0IJ
✳️LISTEN ON SPOTIFY⬇️
https://spoti.fi/4bZV9XJ
BUSINESS INQUIRIES⬇️
HardwoodKnocks@gmail.com
FOLLOW HARDWOOD KNOCKS ON SOCIAL MEDIA ⬇️
Dan’s Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/danfavale.bsky.social
Grant’s Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/granthughes.bsky.social
Dan’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/danfavale
Grant’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/gt_hughes
Dan’s IG: https://www.instagram.com/danfavale
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HardwoodKnocks
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hardwood_knocks/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hardwoodknocks
CHAPTERS⬇️
0:00 – INTRO
1:02 – Last season’s most important development
4:49 – Impact of JB Bickerstaff
6:32 – The Offseason
16:25 – Continued development of Jaden Ivey
24:02 – Future of Jalen Duren
29:29 – Ausar Thompson’s next steps
35:57 – Continued development of Ron Holland
42:52 – The next frontier for Cade Cunningham
48:47 – Will Isaiah Stewart take more threes?
51:40 – Impact of Tobias Harris
56:30 – Marcus Sasser
58:02 – Bobi Klintman
59:25 – Tolu Smith
1:00:14 – Daniss Jenkins
1:01:29 – Chaz Lanier
1:04:00 – Biggest weakness, under-the-radar storylines, trade targets
1:10:31 – Top-10 rotation
1:12:26 – Go-to closing lineup
1:12:49 – Weirdo lineups we want to see
1:16:07 – PREDICTIONS!
#nba #detroitpistons #pistons #cadecunningham #ausarthompson
5 comments
👋Sup Fellow Sickos?
👉Find ALL our Lookahead episodes as they drop, RIGHT HERE⤵
🔗https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsDA9BkMoPHScfLqtAMaAK8qPPxCn0Bj6
🤘🫡
Deep dive on the clippers latest news needed!
Ausar needs to be a bully cutter and get a little post work down.
56:21 Tobias was key last year and will be this year, the vet presence and knowing where he’s supposed to be. He gained so many points in my book last year in contrast to his on court presence in Philly. I love him in a veteran role with young fellas that are trying to win.
Ausar needs to shoot better than 20% from 3 on only 10ppg