So…What Exactly Are The Phoenix Suns Doing?

So…What Exactly Are The Phoenix Suns Doing?

What is up fellow sickos? I am Dan Valley coming at you with another NBA 2025 2026 season look ahead. We’re on to the Phoenix Suns which means I have the distinct pleasure of being joined by the timeline podcast fellas. We have uh we have Mike Vhill. I almost said Sam Vhill. That would have been funny. Uh Mike Vhill at protected pick on the socials spelled exactly as it sounds. And Sam Cooper at I’m just going to say scooper hoops because it sounds cooler. That’s also spelled exactly as it sounds. Guys, welcome back. Thank you for coming back. How the heck are you doing? Happy to be here, man. Happy to be here. We’re doing great. We love doing this every year, Dan. And and I don’t blame you for uh mixing up our names because we’ve been doing this for so long that we’ve kind of morphed into one single personality at this point that often times people mix us up. So, that’s it’s all good. Well, I do have inside knowledge that if I ask you guys about Jonathan Kaminga, that would be a way to detach the personalities. That’s true. one another. So that’s true. That’s very true. I I think you would be wasting uh precious time talking about Jonathan Kaminga this early in in the podcast, but we could we could go there if you want. You’d separate us as uh being right, which is me, and being wrong, which is Sam. So I app I appreciate that. I was putting together this outline, though, and it was a little depressing because I don’t have like a ton of a great feel for how this team is going to play. And I also find there’s too much like ancillary stuff to talk about. I have to start here though, and I’ll throw it to you first, Mike. What like before getting into the offseason nitty-gritty, like how are you going to remember this most recent error of Suns basketball, looking basically from them like pivoting away from that core that made the finals to what just happened, you know? Uh it’s a great place to start. And it’s it’s kind of funny cuz I was thinking about this podcast this morning preparing to come on with you and thinking back in the years that we’ve been on this podcast cuz we’ve done this every year with you basically I think since the year before Chris Paul was traded for the Suns if I’m not mistaken. And famously, I was on the podcast with you recording live when the Chris Paul trade happened one year. We had to stop the podcast and restart and add a Chris Paul section because Chris Paul wasn’t on the Suns yet. So, if you look back into all of those seasons, there was a season of the young team sort of putting it all together. There was the Chris Paul years, they made it to the NBA finals, they traded for Kevin Durant, and now we’re here. And like I don’t know like the last few years, two and a half years really with Kevin Durant on the team I would describe as completely miserable and not exciting in any way. And it sort of started with you know Matt Ishbia buying the team and Robert Sarver being gone which was a very exciting moment. Robert Sarver famously a terrible owner who did not invest in the team at all. Matt Ishbia comes here willing to invest, but the team has gotten worse every year since he’s owned the team and and it’s hard to look at anything but that. I really just want them to be good again while Devin Booker is in his prime. I will say Matt HP did have one of the all-time great rebukes of any offseason to where ESPN had the Suns ranked wherever in their I don’t remember what the rankings were. It wasn’t the future rankings. It was too early for that. And he responded by saying, “Well, they had us like as a being a good team last year and we were terrible. The experts said we’d be good and they were wrong. Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing. Uh, look, Matt is going to be a loud owner and he’s going to embarrass us a lot. But he also gave us $2 hot dogs and free Suns games on network TV, so shout out to him for that. Uh, how many carbing credits did he purchase though, I think, is the real question. Yeah, I don’t know. That Tus Jones deal, let’s just take a look at that. Sam, when you kind of look back on this, like just how the Suns got to this point, do you view any sort of one move or one moment as like the cardinal sin of what happened or is this just the result of stuff being stockpiled on top of each other and that exacerbates the situation? Cardinal sin? I’m not sure. I mean, look, I’m tempted to to point my finger at the Bradley Beal acquisition, obviously, because I think if there’s anything we’ve all learned from that in particular, uh, it’s that you just don’t trade for a guy with a no trade clause, you just do not do it unless that guy is whatever their generational equivalent of LeBron James is, right? Like, you just you don’t do it. And and I will never be in support of anything like that again. Um, but things were already trending downwards with the Kevin Durant trade in the first place. They just simply and again it it comes down to Matt Ishbia coming in and and James Jones did not want to give up the entire farm for Kevin Durant so to speak and Ishbia uh leaned his entire weight on the button and said no we’re going to we’re going to do it. We’re going to give up Male Bridges and Cam Johnson and you know eight first round picks or four first round picks or whatever. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it’s a little bit difficult to dissect even with hindsight though because we do understand that like while it was fun that the Suns were in the finals, we all had a great time there. They were a ticking time bomb, Chris Paul was getting older, DeAndre Aton was, you know, just largely an oralless sauceless player um who was like, you know, just bound to regress at some point. Um, and so they always had to do something and that’s why, you know, I did not even remotely enjoy the Kevin Durant experience with the Suns, but I understood the temptation that they had to do something. Uh, the ultimately the the KD trade was the start of it and then the Beal trade was the nail in the coffin. They were firmly screwed at that point. Actually, this is not on the outline. How did you two I don’t know how closely you followed the reaction to Male Bridges extension with the Knicks. What did you guys have any like how did you feel about him getting a $150 million extension based off the player that he is now? When he was traded uh off of the uh Suns for Kevin Durant, the first thing that Devin Booker said about it was he’ll be a free agent in 2027. That’s what Deon Booker said about MueL Bridges implying that he could come back to the Phoenix Suns. And that was actually my first thought about that extension. I was like well I guess not. which of course player good players never reach free agency anymore. That’s just kind of where we’re at, you know, with the the way the NBA works. Uh but I don’t, you know, like I think he was I think he was pretty good uh for the Knicks last year. It is sort of the thing when I think about Muel Bridges and the reaction that he gets from Knicks fans. I think that I understand why Devin Booker wants to stay with one team his entire career because the team that you’re d that no team will ever love you like the team that you’re drafted to and like because you you are compared to what you were traded for on teams that you’re on. So like Knicks fans no matter how good he’s going to be on that team they’re going to think what about all those picks that we gave up for him. How good would those mystery box players be? And I think that’s kind of the reaction that they’re going to get, you know, for the Knicks, like keeping that team together in this the way that this Eastern Conference is worth it. And, you know, I think even even on that huge extension he got, he’s still going to be a tradeable contract if they do decide to go a different way. I’m happy for him. The only NBA player that follows me on Twitter is Muel Bridges. So, I’m happy for him. I was surprised. I think Nick’s fans were generally positive about it. I was surprised at a lot of the national response because he’s currently projected to be the 51st highest paid player in the NBA when that extension kicks in. And I just think that’s fine. I wasn’t impressed with Right. I I wasn’t impressed with his defense last year. And if you were like, but he did turn it on at some point. And also, if you were expecting him to ever be like a triedand-rue number two option, like you were asking him to be something that he’s not supposed to be either. So, I was just surprised that it seemed like so many people nationally thought it was just bad business. And I was like, I think that’s fine. Even if it’s not a bargain, it feels like it’s fine. Uh, I guess we can continue talking about the Suns. Sam, how did you feel about the Kevin Durant trade? And just to be clear, the one where he was sent to the Rockets, not the Suns. Sure. Yeah. Um, look, we all wanted a little bit more. Um, but you understand where the market was. I I think that was the initial reaction like when I was reading back, you know, Jaylen, what was it? Jaylen Green, Dylan Brooks, uh obviously the the pick that became Kaman Malawatch, but I think a lot of us were like, “Not even, you know, not even Cam Whitmore, not even I Reed Shepard would have been too much.” But like I’ve always, you know, I was like, “They don’t even play that guy. He doesn’t even play. You you took him top five. You have zero minutes for him and we can’t, you know, we can’t ask.” But uh no, I I understand like why the return was what it was. Uh I think the Rockets are going to be just a super interesting team to follow this year. as an aside and I will sort of be uh a little bit of a hater for them definitely. Uh but like you know just mildly I think they’re going to be interesting to watch. I have all of the Suns Rockets games on my calendar uh circled uh where I’m sure we’re going to get spanked by 20 plus points every time but it’s going to be a fun time regardless. So, um, Malawatch was I I know you have questions about Kaman Malawatch, I’m sure, coming, you know, later on, but it’s it’s like almost unfair to him now how much rests on his shoulders in being the centerpiece of that trade return if, as I don’t suspect he can, Jaylen Green is not like a true number two next to Deon Booker. Um, and I think there are other ways that you could hope that if Jaylen Green himself is not a number two, maybe he can play himself into being a trade piece that nets you a true number two, right? So that’s that might be what they’re thinking with Jaylen Green. But otherwise, Malawatch needs to be on on unfortunately a little bit of an accelerated timeline if you’re going to make this work while Devin Booker is still a son. So I have a lot of faith in Malawatch. I know we’re going to talk about him later, but also he’s like one of the most raw prospects in in this draft class. So, it’s a little tough for him. Do we think, Mike, that KD knows he’s a vibes killer at this point? He has to know people thinks that, but do you think like within? He absolutely knows. I am not I am not Mike. I am not Mike, but I’m answering for Mike. Kevin Durant knows exactly what people think about him and and everything he’s ever said. He’s online enough to know. He’s motivated by his insecurity. It is all motivated by his insecurity. I Oh, go ahead. I was just going to say I’m wondering if there’s like a self-awareness there to where he could admit to himself like yeah I’ve kind of submarine the culture of like three or four teams now. No, I think the thing about KD and I think this is true. I don’t even think he’d be wrong about this that he would say is that all his teammates like him and I think that’s true. I think that you know regardless of all the places he’s gone and how badly it’s gone and a bunch of those places like I don’t think Deon Booker dislikes Kevin Durant in any way. I think they’re probably still going to be uh close friends after this. And for KD, those relationships are probably what matters to him the most. You know, it’s not like he can say the same about every coach he’s had cuz I think he’s had seven or eight since he’s left the Warriors. You know, a coach is fired every year he’s on a team essentially uh when he’s on that team. But the players themselves seem to like him. So, I think he thinks of that as like some sort of saving grace for him, which I think, you know, there’s some fairness to that. But overall, I think not just with the the the uh actual Encort product, the fan experience got a lot worse, too, when he was trolling fans online every day, which is his right. Don’t get me wrong. He’s allowed to do that. But it’s like every day you have to see the star player on your team arguing with Suns fans online. Even if they are some of the dumber ones, it is it’s a little miserable to watch. I I think that’s what was so frustrating for a lot of not just Suns fans, but honestly KD stands too is that this is a guy who would have maybe for every 10 adoring KD stands who were just begging online for some sort of validation from from their demigod or or whatever. you know, Kevin Durant would be able to find the one guy, the one person in the atmosphere, the environment who is criticizing him and then that is always the person that he would quote tweet, you know, like it, you’re right, it is absolutely his right to conduct his business on social media as he sees fit. But he made the space a lot more toxic just by focusing on the toxicity. He would seek out the negativity, maybe because he feels it makes him a better player, but that is always the stuff he would choose to highlight, and he simply didn’t have to. I will say in his defense and any any NBA player’s defense, if I had a following that huge, I would be tempted to search because I’m just a massochist. So, I’d be tempted to search my own name. And I don’t know if I could withhold like I don’t know how people deal with criticism at that scale or even a slightly smaller scale of it. I know what I do. I just ignore any of it. Pretend it doesn’t exist. That’s like that’s a that’s a superhuman strength. Yeah. Like that’s a superhero trait if you could just ignore it. I I do a better job of not responding to it now, but there are absolutely random commenters or people I mentioned. I won’t say anything, but they will ruin like a couple hours of my day. Right. Right. Yeah. That’s why podcasters truly are our strongest soldiers. And one of them is the coach of the Lakers. I mean, you never know the heights that we could reach. That’s true. Mike, how did you feel about uh and I I know how you feel, but I’m asking you for the people that don’t. How did you feel about the decision to do the buyout and stretch with Bradley Beal? Bad. I feel badly about that. I don’t I don’t think that it was a good idea. I understand the benefits to it. I think that there’s monetary benefits. I think, you know, ultimately the largest benefit is it saves Madishia a ton of money, but just ultimately getting them under the second apron is understandable as well. But if there was any other way to do it that they turned down because of the ease of just you know waving and stretching him then it was a mistake ultimately it was a mistake you know I understand that sometimes conceptually like trading guys for less salary is not always possible. It takes other teams to agree to that. So if that was completely unavailable to them then I understand the idea of getting to this point but I would have preferred to keep him on the team until he was an expiring contract. I think there was a way out of this KD Bradley Beal mess which was free agency in 2027 like just having a clean cap sheet outside of Deon Booker’s deal that is completely gone. It’s just gone now. Every single margin move has to work out in order for the team to be good with Deon Booker on it because of that. Like there was a world where you find a way to do something with cap space in the future. And I just don’t I’m just not a huge fan of that. Although I you know like there’s there’s defense for it. Don’t get me wrong. his understandable reasons. I just wish that there was any other way to get him off the team. One thing I will say to that though, grateful I never have to watch him play basketball again. That’s one thing I will say. Did not enjoy the Bradley Beal experience at all. And you know, I I don’t I’m I’m not going to miss watching him play. Let’s be honest, it would have been a massive distraction that they simply felt they could not afford if Bradley Beal was still on the team because they were unable to find a trade partner and they would have had to I don’t know would have been a thing at media day throughout training camp. They may have had to send him home. They certainly wouldn’t have wanted to play him when they’ve just now invested a lot in Jaylen Green. I I get it. Like I understand you’re within your right to to criticize their cap management and all that. And yes, it’s going to be annoying to have to deal with for the next 5 years. But I am so relieved that Bradley Beiel is no longer a member of the Phoenix Suns in any way, shape, or form. In spite of my criticisms about Kevin Durant, at least I’ve always been able to recognize his like godly talents. Um, his, you know, his generational talent. Bradley Beal, I just view as as a loser. I mean, he’s just a career loser. And that’s you’re laughing, Dan, but like really the way that the way you don’t understand unless you’ve been there how miserable the last 2 and 1/2 years have been for Suns fans. It’s they has just been the most miserable. And I’ve watched and I’ve covered worst teams from a record perspective. But you look up the definition of oralless in the textbook. This was an oralless era of Suns basketball. They were miserable to watch. They played with absolutely no pace, no movement on offense, no effort on defense. And we’re just so relieved that both of these guys are gone. Frankly, I get the relief aspect of it, but as you pointed out, like the cap management stuff is tough to get around because I doubt there’s they’re very close to ducking the tax entirely now. I doubt there was a way to do that without going this direction, but they certainly could have gotten out of the second apron. And so that’s why I just view it as sort of a cheap out. If you’re Matt HB and you’re claiming you’ll pay whatever, like you could have gotten out of the or avoided the second apron and avoided like starting those the clocks on your like draft picks. Um you could have avoided that without having this massive Bradley Beal hit on the books and you could have just said, “Hey, I’ll pay him for two years to not play basketball then if he’s not going to agree to a trade somewhere assuming they could even find one.” And I think that sort of ran because Milwaukee did what they did with Dame to actively like get somebody and the Suns just did it to save money and for someone who is like Mike said before they’ve invested a lot in the team. They’ve spent a lot of money like I don’t know this just kind of feels like a weak move by them. I get the addition by subtraction, especially when it comes to their culture. And as you guys already said, Jaylen Green is now on the roster, but I just like what is the like I just don’t know what message this sends to your fans about the next half decade when you have that money on the books. It says like Mike did there’s not going to be cap space anytime soon. And I know stars change teams via free agency anymore. Uh don’t change teams via free agency anymore, excuse me, but you don’t have trade assets to go out and make those types of trades. So, it just felt like a really weak move by them and that’s just sort of where I landed. I understand there’s probably no perfect solution, but that’s the perils of trading for someone that has a no trade clause. Mhm. Never again. Sam, what do you make of the regime change in the front office and how they went about hiring Brian Gregory? Not great. Um, man, you’re hitting us with the hard questions. Uh, look, um, you know, for anyone who doesn’t know, maybe doesn’t follow the team as closely, Matt Ishbia has this close connection to Michigan State, and it’s become, uh, I I think it started as a joke, but is also just a fact at this point that he has heavily prioritized people and interview processes throughout the organization who share that uh, that Michigan State background with him. And as we look at Brian Gregory, who’s now the GM of the team and and was at Michigan State with Matt Ishvia, um it’s just not someone who would have gotten this job from any other team. Uh he has a 20 years experience as a college coach, but not a particularly successful one, you know, like a lot of mid- major programs that maybe struggle to recruit, struggle to make NCA tournaments, that sort of thing. And just doesn’t have NBA front office experience. And yet he’s now the general manager of the Suns. and it sucks frankly. Um, but you know, I’m still willing to give him a chance. It’s more so just that we recognize that, you know, I I I think what’s interesting about Ishbia is in spite of the fact that he has been at the core of every decision made by the Suns over the two and a half years uh since he’s acquired the team, he has largely tried to distance himself from, you know, that level of accountability, saying that like the Kevin Durant trade, the Bradley Beal trade weren’t necessarily his ideas, trying to pawn that off on on other people in the organization. When you make when you make decisions like this to hire people who just don’t deserve the jobs that they’re in, you can’t distance yourself from that accountability anymore. We now fully understand that Matt Ishbia, this is Matt Ishbia’s show. Every decision that is made is because of Matt Ishbia. It’s not because of Brian Gregory or anyone else, Josh Bartlestein, who’s the CEO, or anyone else. This is Matt Ishbia’s decision. And so that’s fine. Okay, if if that is what it is, like I understand you spent $4 billion on the team, you want to make those decisions, but you’re going to get the criticism that comes with that. Um, and you know, I just hope Ishbia kind of comes around to understanding that going forward that we can all kind of see through the facade, those of us who like are used to watching and covering these teams. Uh, anyway, and we know what the situation is. Mike, how did you feel about the Jordan A hire? I know very little about him aside from hey he’s also got ties to the state of Michigan Michigan State University in fact uh he got his master’s degree there but he and he uh he was an intern I believe under Tom IO Brian Gregory by the way I will mention coached Matt Ishbia like the ties are very strong he was literally an assistant coach when Matt Ishbia was on that championship team uh at Michigan State I think that Jordan Au though this the coaching search like Brian Gregory does not have a resume that should have allowed him to be a general manager in the NBA. Jordan has a resume that does lead to him being a head coach in the NBA even though he does have a tie to Michigan State. It’s loose um at best, but he he is the he was just Deari Carol is an assistant coach for the Suns now. I will mention uh because they met when Jordan was an assistant to Mike Benhoer on the Atlanta Hawks and then he went on to to be at other stops with him in the future. Deari Carol described Jerna as the architect of the Cleveland Cavaliers offense last year. And if you watch the way the Cleveland Cavaliers played offense last year, it’s a very exciting prospect. It’s a pick and roll heavy offense that has a ton of offball movement. They play fast. They play with pace in the half court. They shoot threes, but they also get to the rim. And I think they have uh a guy who understands the nuances of modern NBA basketball and kind of addresses all of the problems that the Phoenix Suns had last year. The Suns also signed a player named Nigel Hayes Davis who played he was the MVP of the Euro League Final Four last year. That’s how they do the MVPs there. Uh, and he described Jordan Kn as having the type of basketball tism that you need to be a successful NBA coach, which not the way I would describe it, but Nigel Hayes Davis’s point was like Nigel Hayes Davis is a very funny guy if you watch interviews with him. Yes, he is. Uh, Jordan is someone who is very very clearly the way that everyone describes him obsessed with basketball and wants to understand sort of where it’s going in the future. Um, you know, and and I think I’m excited to see, you know, like ultimately understanding basketball is only a small part of the job. Every head coach does understand it to some extent. It’s about how you communicate that to your team and how much buyin that they have. So, you know, we’ll see. Like, they don’t have the personnel to be a great team, but if we see them playing the right way on a day-to-day basis, I think that’s an exciting thing, especially for a young coach who could be with the team for a long time. Uh, so fingers crossed ultimately for me. I think the way he emphasized uh and I guess that was his introductory presser that I was reading quotes from movement just felt really important because like that feels like this team’s best shot at generating rim pressure for the first time since what 2019 or like 2017 rim pressure. Wow. I don’t even know. Yeah, something like that. So, uh like I I’m more open to that. Like that felt like a process that was a real process at least their their coaching hire. So, but those are the toughest hires to judge as well is because you have to see him play out on the court and I don’t know with the personnel they have like I don’t know how much you hang on his shoulders. He is he does have a reputation. I think he got a lot of that in Atlanta for his player development and so like that could bode well for you know some of those internal development guys that you talked about on your podcast. Who knows? Good plug. Sam, what do you make of the Devin Booker extension and the reaction to it? And will there be limits to this dude’s loyalty? I thought what Mike said at the top was interesting and I never really thought of it in those terms about how uh he understands why Deon Booker wants to play for one team when you look at how these, you know, these fans that adopt you basically um via trade, how how they can react when you don’t uh perform up to snuff. Uh ultimately, I don’t, you know, I don’t know Devin Booker personally and so I don’t really know. Well, hold on. Is that true? That’s true, man. And I don’t know the inner minations of his mind, but the extension that you’re referring to, I I think it’s important because as you know, Dan, you know, maybe better than anyone else, people don’t read these days. They don’t really process things be beyond well for my livelihood, let me tell you. And short clips. And so le let’s just point out the fact that that was a 2-year $145 million extension that Deon Booker signed, which does not kick in until 2028. I think the 2028 2029 season, he has a full three years left on his current deal before that extension even kicks in. I think the reason that’s important to highlight is because I saw a lot of head um headlines based on a factual statement which is that like Devin Booker signs most lucrative extension per year ever, which is technically true, but by the time that extension actually kicks in, it will be the same equivalent extension uh or even less that other guys are signing. You know, like Joic hasn’t signed his extension yet. Giannis hasn’t signed his extension yet. Jason Tatum, I think, did sign or or Jason Tatum was on like a little bit of an earlier timeline, you know, signing a a a contract extension like a couple years ago, but he will be signing an extension by 2028 that is even more lucrative than the one that Deon Booker will be on, right? So, of course, you can have questions. Is Deon Booker going to be playing at a 72.5 million level when he’s 33? Probably not. This is just something you do. It’s just something you have to do. And whatever, you know, keeps the guy, you know, happy and in your environment, it’s worth it. And uh there’s there’s simply no alternative for the Suns. Deon Booker is synonymous with the city of Phoenix at this point. You have the opportunity to potentially make this guy a Sun’s lifer. Maybe he gets sufficiently pissed off at some point that that isn’t the case and it becomes like a Damen Lillard in Portland situation where he has to go try something else and fail for a couple years and then he comes back. You never know. Um but yeah, it’s uh I have absolutely no issues with the Booker contract extension. I totally understand it from the team’s perspective. Uh and it’s also just there’s like they guaranteed technically an extra one year when you look at the player option the way it moves. So they gave him the ability to guarantee two years. I guess what confuses me, not about the extension, but it’s tough to square away like how loyal he might be versus I don’t believe necessarily where this team is headed, but like it feels like there has to be limits to his loyalty at some point or I don’t see this ending any other way than well, he’s eventually going to get traded. That doesn’t mean you don’t give him the extension. Again, this is totally separate from that. So, Mike, what would need to happen? not to finalize his entire future with the team this year, but like what does a season look like in which the Suns send a message to Devin Booker that says we’re at least headed in what could be the right direction from here? It’s a great question. Making the playoffs, I think, would be really helpful. And that is I think it’s an uphill battle uh for them in this coming year. It would take a pretty massive season by guys we’re going to talk about soon. I’m sure Jaylen Green and Mark Williams in particular. If those guys can find a way to be the best they’ve ever been next year, maybe they have some small chance of that. But like, you know, like it’s a lot on the team to put it together and to justify it for him. But I also think he needs to play better, too. Last year, I think was such a disaster in so many ways. players. So many of the players on the Suns played below what they could uh do and it seems like the unhappiness post trade deadline after the Suns tried to sneak trade Kevin Durant just permeated the entire locker room and and nobody really played well beyond that trade deadline. So it’s really difficult to square what this season will look like to what last season looked like. It just nobody seemed to like Mike Benhoer either and we were excited about that. uh you know 25 and seven that’s what he averaged last year 25 points seven assists and like and I would call it a bad season for Deon Booker which is just it says where we’re at with him and how we view what’s expected out of him but so much more of what the team is going to look like rests on his shoulders next year. There is no Kevin Durant anymore. He is very clearly the main leader on this team and the main superstar on this team. And so, you know, ultimately that’s the only competent pick and roll ball handler. We know remains to be seen, but there’s a chance that that’s true. Sam, on one of your podcasts recently, you had said something like Devin Booker better play defense this year. My first thought was like he just posted his highest true usage. Um, for anyone who just doesn’t know, like it incorporates passing potential assists of his career and it might need to be higher this season when you just Green and Colin Gillespie. So, can you expect him to be much better on defense? That’s I don’t even know if that warrants a discussion, but well, defense is so much of a of a vibes thing, too, though. It’s, you know, and and an an infectious energy thing. And again, I just point to the fact that I I recognize that much of this is a faith-based argument, the addition by subtraction stuff. But you look at the true miserable expressions on the faces of every Suns player last year in the way that they played defense. It truly brought them no joy and it brought me no joy to watch any of them try to play defense. that you hope that a lot of this injection of youth and energy that the Suns and and length by the way too that was a big thing we we kind of didn’t touch on with Jordan is yes he wants to play fast he wants to play with movement but the other thing they’re trying to steal from Cleveland and many other teams are doing this around the league but recognizing that it’s not 2015 anymore you can’t be the small ball warriors and still win anymore you actually need to be big at many positions and with the guys the the Suns brought in this summer they’re actually projected you know, their starting lineup is a bit of a problem, and I I’m sure we’ll get there, too. But they can implement lineups that are absolutely huge in their front court while still trying to play fast and maybe shoot a lot of threes and and I think that’s, you know, something they’re trying to steal in particular from Cleveland. Um, so yeah, Devin Booker needs to play defense. I look, I know it’s not fair, but he signed up for this. I’m trying to absolve him of playing defense, to be clear. I just it feels like there’s even more offensive responsibility on his shoulders. And so there is probably $70 million. You got to, you know, you got to play both sides, buddy. Sorry, Mike. What does the optimal version of Jayen Green look like on this team? And how confident are you that he has the ability to actualize it? I’m uh you know what? I’m I should ask you this. Is there like a I’m As I talk, I’m not going to put you on the spot right away, but as I talk, try and think about what the what a good optimal Jaylen Green comp is in a player. Like think about a player that you could compare what that is to if you have any idea cuz I’m struggling to I’m struggling Lavine is interesting. I think I brought that up. Did I bring that one up on a podcast? Possibly. Like I want it to be like Derek White, you know, like I like I want I just want I want him to try on defense and I want him to shoot 10 or 11 threes a game and I and and just get to the rim. if you cut out entirely the mid-range shots or you know there’s a version of him playing well where he develops a mid-range shot but he’s one of the worst mid-range shooters in the NBA. Uh but if he just focuses on getting to the rim and shooting threes, I think that’s the best. The Suns described him as the point guard through Sham Sharinia. So like they’re clearly not thinking the same way as me. I don’t think I I still kind of I know you’re saying that maybe you’re right, but I still sort of reject the veracity of that report. I think maybe he’s going to guard point guards, but I I don’t think he’s going to be their primary ball handler. We’ll see. To be fair, and like sort of to Mike’s point, like the first like year or year and a half in Houston, like that was a different level of defender or at least effort from Jaylen Green on defense. So maybe he has the ability to get to that level. And I think for the playoffs, too, I think he was pretty good on defense. And you have like Dylan Brooks still to insulate him as well as like Ryan Dunn on this team. So there’s like that’s not outside the realm of like Derek White is like I can’t I don’t think I ever could see him defending at that type of it’s more of a role it’s more of a role thing that him we’ve talked a lot with Jaylen Green about you know he’s been the the most optimistic case I think you can take with Jaylen on the Suns is that he simply has never played with a game processor like Devin Booker. Uh, and you know, we’ve had four years of him being in Houston in an offense that has very little movement, a lot of stagnation, and just has asked him to do a lot of initiation. And it’s like, well, he’s 20, how old is he now? 23. 22. It’s year five. What if you just give up on the idea of Jaylen Green being a superstar and just let him be, you know, a pretty good kind of number threeish type role player option? maybe number two if he can get up there instead where he’s almost exclusively playing off of Devin Booker instead of being a primary initiator. Really focusing on kind of more my balling his game. Again, like that’s not something that I think you should do ubiquitously with with every player, but in Jaylen Green’s case, I really think it would suit him to cut out a lot of the mid-range garbage and just focus on being a little bit more of a role player and maybe he could excel in that role. still averaged 20 points a game, but you know, in a kind of to Mike’s point, Derek White sort of way, uh, instead of a Zack Lavine sort of way. So, I don’t know. We’ll we’ll see. Lavine, though, I will say, Dan, is a good is a good comp in that Lavine shoots a ton of threes, too. Jaylen Green did. Like, I don’t want to imply that Jaylen Green didn’t shoot a ton of threes last year. He did. He shot a lot of threes last year, but like I think pumping that up even more to try to get to the right place uh with his shot selection would make a huge huge huge difference. But like unless the thing about him that’s been interesting is four years in the league, almost all four of them exactly the same. There has not been big improvements in his playmaking, in his shot selection, in his overall uh you know efficiency as a scorer. It’s been four years of of relatively similar basketball. So, it’s difficult for me to come up with a version of what he does where I just assume the efficiency is going to make a massive jump or I assume that the playmaking is going to make a massive jump or even the defense. So, finding the right shot selection within what he’s good at, it’s a him problem and it’s a draw not problem ultimately. And if they can find a version of that, maybe that’s great. But, I will say new player, new team, like young player, new team is a is a good way to think about it. Maybe there is something there that we didn’t see in Houston. maybe a new situation could actually benefit him in a way that we don’t anticipate. I I I think your point about Devin Booker like maybe having an impact on him and is the best sort of advantage creator he’s ever played alongside is a big deal because his spot up efficiency has peaked in like the 60th percentile in his best season. I think it was in like the zeroth per ball index last year. But I don’t like that I’m interested with the quality of his shots looks like in Phoenix. And can you also just convince him to play off the ball more? And like one of the things that Houston did with a player who’s now on the the Suns is they reigned in Dylan Brooks a lot on the offensive end. And that’s where I feel like he had like one of his single best year last season. And so can you figure out a way to I’m not saying Jaylen Green needs to be Dylan Brooks. like Dylan Brooks still thinks that he could be like a superstar on certain possessions, but is there a way to rein him in if they’re like I feel like the best way to do that is oh, you’re playing on a good team with a lot of people above you in the pecking order and I just don’t know aside from Devin Booker. I don’t know that they have that contextual juice just yet. No, you’re right. They don’t. And and in particular, you know, like we were lucky with Booker last year and that he played 75 games, but he’s always had little nagging injuries throughout his career. there’s a solid chance that Deon Booker plays, you know, 65 games this year or something. And in any game in which Devin Booker misses anytime at all, Jaylen Green, for better or worse, he’s the guy. Uh, so that will look probably pretty similar to how it did in Houston, which is to say inefficient basketball maybe prevents your offense from like totally bottoming out, but just won’t be good. Turnovers too, you know, like there it’ll be turnover prone. Look, here’s someone who maybe could save the offense in Colin Gillespie. Oh, here we go. Your guys’ time to shine. He’s just like the third most important guard on this team now. Correct. Yeah. Who else would it be? Are you a Jordan Goodwin fan? I don’t I don’t know. Or Jared Butler. Like those two guys are sort of competing for the last spot on the team at this point because Butler is signed to a non-G guaranteed deal just like Goodwin. Grayson Allen actually added another 40 pounds of muscle this summer. You haven’t seen the pictures yet, Dan, but he’s pushing He’s 27 a guard or a wing, but like Kobe Brea interest me, too. Can we just lock into this box? Yeah. Yeah. I don’t play at all, but he’s on a two. So, he can only play. Yeah. Um, but he he is very very very exciting to me. Uh, but yeah, I think Colin Gillespie, he’s, you know, by the numbers, he’s technically the best pick and roll runner on the team last year, but only ran maybe 50 or 60 of them because he just didn’t play much. But, you know, has earned a spot, a guaranteed deal. He was on a two-way last year, too, Gillespie. So, he he earned a guaranteed deal on this team. And it’s due to his hustle and his play and and and his efficiency on and off the ball as a scorer. Can’t get to the rim, can’t shoot a lot of mid-range shots, but he shoots a ton of threes uh by the minute. And he can run a pick and roll. And I think, you know, he has some tenacity in rebounds and on defense. He’s not going to be great at those things, but he’s going to be better than you would anticipate him being. He’s an excellent rebounder for like a 6-1 point guard. like yeah he’s it’s not the same as having a guy like let’s say you just have a 67 point guard out there but for his size pound-for-pound Colin Gillespie is an incredible rebounder it’s kind of mesmerizing to watch and you know he’s 27 right so he is a player who hasn’t played much in the NBA that is in his prime years as an NBA player uh but yeah he’s going to play a really really important role as important as as it’s going to be when and when when everyone’s healthy it’s going to be doubly important if guys miss time and he’s just going to be likely the starting point guard on this team uh four games. But the Suns do believe in him. Like they do truly believe in him. We wanted them to add Chris Paul when it was between the Clippers and Phoenix. And they, you know, based on what they’ve said through their mouthpieces. The Suns didn’t want that. They seemed to choose to to to not have that big of a voice in the locker room and give those opportunities to call in Gillespie instead. It’s a risk because like he is small and not had a ton of success. But what he’s shown I’m excited about personally. He’s he’s simply never had this level of on ball responsibility in the NBA. We’ve seen a little bit of it in like the G-League. Like he goes down to the G- League sometimes and averages 10 assists a game and just runs their offense. The G- League is not the NBA. What I think is really encouraging about Kong Gillespie is that he is for sure an NBA player in all of the ancillary skills that he displayed, right? like he he could be a secondary playmaker. He can shoot threes at a 40% clip. He can rebound like hell. He can hustle guard guys 94 ft. That’s great. All of that shows me that you are an NBA player. Coming off the bench for 20 minutes a game and like running pick and rolls though is is that’s a different role. That’s not something he’s really been asked to do in the NBA yet. And so he is suddenly saddled with a lot more responsibility. and either he’s going to be the Tai Jerome of this year to make another Cavs comparison or uh he’s going to struggle because they’re asking him to do a lot more. So, we’ll see. The reason I was really in favor of Chris Paul being signed and now I think kind of falls to Colin Gillespie is I do think the world of Deon Booker as a playmaker like in his role, but Colin Gillespie is probably best suited more so than anyone else on this roster to get three of their four primary bigs like the ball in the way that they want to score. or when you’re looking at common Malawatch or you’re looking at Nick Richards or you’re looking at Mark Williams. I just like who is the best lob passer on this team. It’s probably going to be like I really thought CP3 I don’t know why he wanted to play for this team personally. Like I know Phoenix is a good market and he he liked it there. Uh there just didn’t seem like they were at a timeline to where he would want to go there. Uh but that’s why I really wanted them to get like any type of veteran point guard who could run the show. And I’m interested to see if Conspen cuz they’re big men and specifically Williams and Malawatch who are the two most important ones like Igodaro’s up there but like they need someone to get them the ball in the right spots to be most effective. Like I know Mark Williams has like some dynamism to his game. Um but I don’t want to like I just don’t trust it down low and I think the whole his range quote unquote is very theoretical at this point. So it’s a it’s a really big moment for Killespian. I think you could view it like you guys said as like really this big belief in him, but I do do we think that he’s going to be able to help these bigs develop? Do we think that they get to a point where it’s like, oh, are they going to want him like in lineups with both Deon Booker and Jaylen Green so that he can be the one to delineate touches on offense? They’re going to have to they’re going to have to try uh you know, more than anything else because yeah, the the bigs are intriguing in Mark Williams and specifically Kaman Malawatch. I think those are the right two guys to focus on. I mean, I’m excited about Osu Agodaro, and we can talk about him, too, but they don’t create their own shots, you know, they just can’t. They’re not the type of players to do that. First of all, come on. Malawatch is 18. Um, and and Mark Williams only played 110 games or so in the NBA. And and and what he does is jump really high, catch the ball, and dunk it. And, you know, he’s sort of a DeAndre Jordan on offense up to this point of his career, although he can shoot free throws, which is, you know, intriguing at the very least. Um, but they need someone to be able to do that. Colin Gillespie is going to be a guy who they’re going to lean on to do that as much as possible. Devin Booker, for all he can do as a passer. He’s number one in the NBA. This is that I bring up a lot at creating three-point shots for players. He actually was number one in the NBA last year at doing that, but you know, he’s not the best at getting shots for guys at the rim the way, like you said, Chris Paul could and was so capable of and really benefited DeAndre Aton early in his career because of that. Uh Book’s not that guy to do that. He’s going to create a ton of three-point shots, but not going to get it to them. So, it’s up to Gillespie and I hope he’s up for it. What are your thoughts on Mark Williams, Mike? How you feeling about his fit? What are you monitoring most closely for him? You wanted to go to Mike on that one. I see. You don’t want You don’t want old boy over here’s opinion. Well, got to get it. So, I I think with Mark Williams, I wish that the defensive data was better. Uh, but the offensive data already puts him as probably the best offensive center they’ve had since DeAndre Eaton. So, that’s helpful. Um, the analysis that analysis with Mark Williams that’s not overly exciting is that you just cross your fingers that he can stay healthy and that’s like the biggest thing with him because he’s played so little uh in in the NBA so far. Um, but I do think that the Suns were kind of criticized for taking Mark Williams and then taking Kaman Malawatch, you know, on the same, you know, within minutes of each other. To be honest, the trade was made and then the draft pick was picked. But I watched summer league. Kaman Malawatch is not ready to start. Even on a bad team, I don’t think he’s ready to start. And they need someone nonsensical a nonsensical argument for anyone who thought about it for even more than 5 seconds. We know that Mark Williams plays 40 games a year and we know that Kam Malanch is not ready. So to have both of those guys on the same team is totally fine. Dan, you didn’t ask my opinion, but when I see Mark Williams, I see prime Dwight Howard, but 80% from the free throw line, maybe Brook Lopez range from deep. I I have I have stock. We are ready for the Mark Williams renaissance. So if you if you’re buying stock, Sam, what is just how do you feel about him defensively then? cuz every time I watch him, most of the good plays feel like they happen on accident. I know you’re 100% right. So, the the real concerns to have outside of health with Mark Williams are defense. Um, I actually had a conversation with Mike about this where I was asking like, who are you more concerned about defensively between Jaylen Green and Mark Williams? Both of these guys have had their defensive issues. And I think in general, centers are so much more important to your defensive scheme. So, you’d be tempted to say Mark Williams. On the other hand, Mark Williams, like we just can’t discount the Charlotte Hornets of it all. The total lack of consistency, the total lack of like, you know, having less than an average of 25 players in their rotation per season just makes it hard to to develop, right? Uh any any sort of like uh chemistry with your teammates. Whereas a a huge reason why Jaylen Green is so concerning defensively is because he was otherwise like he was the the anchor in a negative way that was holding down a really good defensive team and a really good defensive rotation where it was just so obvious that Jaylen Green was like the guy who was struggling out of all all those players and Mark Williams. I don’t know. It’s just like hard to to to for me to attribute responsibility towards Mark Williams versus LaMelo Ball or Brandon Miller or Miles Bridges or any of those other disasters who have played for the Charlotte Hornets over the past few years. Yeah, I think with him the lack of even when he was had like that nice stretch to close the season, I just haven’t seen like Charles Lee is a good defensive coach. that Hornets team punched above its weights a lot. And him as a rim protector, he might have some of the worst timing as just like a big contesting shots to where he will leave his feet like at the faintest like I don’t and it could be a non-shooter who’s like it could be Ryan Dunn like trying to take a step back or something with like 27 uh 21 seconds left on the shot clock. So I just I don’t trust him on defense. And I think for what they gave up for him is fine. I’m I’m with you. I don’t think Malawatch is going to be ready for a huge role. when I was doing my summer league breakdown of him, it was I guess tools are there, but he just still feels so raw. Uh, but I’m not like a Mark the price they paid to get him like I’m not a Mark Williams believer. Offensively, maybe sure, but as you kind of said, Sam, in the discussion that you guys did have on that podcast, I really do think the center position is so critical to defense that he has not shown nearly enough to me aside from being accidentally huge on certain and long on certain possessions that I would trust him as like an anchor of an above average defense long term. accidentally huge would be a decent slogan for the Suns this year in general, I think, of just like, you know, that’s what we hang our hat on. We’re large. That should have been a DeAndre Aon nickname actually now that I think about him in the past. But I do think Jordan, you know, has experience with Moy and Jared Allen. And uh and the the one thing I will say about Mark Williams defensively is that for bigs, part of what makes you good at playing defense in the NBA is consistently playing and he hasn’t. Like you have to find that timing and if your if your time in the NBA is so stilted with injuries, it’s really difficult to get that consistency to be able to be better at defense. So I think there was a world that he gets better. I I understand the skepticism overall of what his ceiling could be defensively. It’s probably not very high and luckily the Suns drafted who they think could be their future center and maybe there’s a world where Malawatch develops a little quicker and becomes that. But I do think if there is a world where he plays 65 games this year, which probably not. I mean, there’s just no evidence that he can. But if he can, I think there’s a chance that he becomes somewhat of a better defender by the end of the season than he was at the beginning and that improvement finally actually comes for him. Uh, would you guys be shocked if he got an extension or do we expect this to go to just restricted free agency 100%. I I wouldn’t be shocked. It depends on how he plays and how healthy he is, but I think there’s a world where you could put together a deal for him that is so contingent on his ability to stay healthy. Uh, that the Suns have an easy out if it doesn’t work for him. And actually, do we know who Mark Williams agent is by any chance? Great question. Is he Josh Bartlestein’s dad? Is that what you’re asking? I would just think that he would so strongly value any guaranteed money uh compar Okay. So not Yeah. Not Bartlestein. All right. No, that’s priority sports. Is that what that is? I’m sorry. I care a lot about We care a lot about agents on our podcast. I don’t know, Dan, if you do, but we have a lot of conversations about them. Uh I do not follow it as closely as you guys do. I don’t get into like the who represents who of it all. Yeah. So Sam, how do you feel about Malawatch and what type of a role do you like what type of runway is he going to have to develop on this Sun’s team this year? So his role in year one is going to be Gazelle learning to dribble a basketball and walk and chew gum at the same time. Like it’s going to be, you know, funny. There are going to be some Kaman Malawatch lowlights this year that I think if you just want to point at those and be like, “Haha, big man struggle to play basketball good.” Then like, sure, okay, fine. Uh what was so exciting about him in summer league is just like here’s an 18-year-old who wasn’t asked to do all that much in his role at Duke, but then just has the will to immediately go out there and try dribbling the basketball and try shooting threes and try doing things that we know maybe statistically he’s not going to be good at immediately. But coming from this experience of having drafted DeAndre Aton number one overall and committing 5 years to his development and he never could get as far as like doing anything other than an elbow mid-range jumper to h to then have a guy come in and be so willing to learn and and and really just the affusive praise that is being heaped on Malawatch uh from other guys who were part of that summerly roster saying that he was constantly the captain of the defense and the loudest guy that they had on defense. It’s like that’s just exactly what you want to hear uh about your 18-year-old rookie. Um and and honestly, it’s pretty surprising, too, that he’s already there. So, I I just don’t think statistically it’s going to be there in year one. You’re going to have to read between the lines on him a little bit uh at the beginning. But, like, if you watch him dribbling the ball, if you watch him attempting threes, if you watch him, you know, being vocal on defense, the intangible stuff is there that you just have to buy into his combination of athleticism and work ethic and trust the process. Are are do you think the Suns have like the stomach to go through those growing pains this season or is there a level of like immediate expectations here? Because they’re just they’re on this weird timeline right now. I don’t frankly I don’t know like what their aim is. They’re trying to develop and also still be relevant because what else is there to do? But yeah, they don’t own their picks. Yeah. Yeah. Like what type of a leash do you think like is this going to be maybe after the all-star break thing they have a better sense of where they are so that’s when he could get more run? They drafted Malawatch who is 18. He will be 19 this coming season. He’s played basketball since he was 14. So I mean they they’re showing some willingness there, right? I mean they have to be because how and then also I will say they they hired a coach who’s famous for his player development. Like so I think that they are showing some willingness and this is a credit to Devin Booker’s willingness to to to give it some time too. But that how far and how long that patience will last remains to be seen. We’ll see if that’s something he feels next year as well as this year, but they’re showing some willingness to have some patience for this season just based on the decisions they’ve made. Uh but you know, Malawatch, you know, I think Sam said it earlier on in the podcast, like so much of how successful the Kevin Durant trade uh is is is viewed will be dependent on his development and and ultimately like like the Suns have I will say they have Mark Williams, they have Nick Richards, they have Osu Agadaro, they have Kaman Malawatch, meaning they have four guys who could play center on this team. Malawatch is the gonna be the worst one on the court when the season begins, but they still have to play him. They just have to they have to give him the time to develop. They have to allow him to make the mistakes that he’s going to make early on in the season. And they have to figure out what they have with him by next season. And ultimately, like if they get to a point at the end of the season where they say, “Okay, we’ve developed these young guys. We have Ryan Dunn, we have Malawatch, we have Jaylen Green, and maybe they decide to make a trade with two or three of those guys and try to find someone who can help accelerate the team and be better next season next to Devin Booker. Maybe that’s something they do. I don’t know if that’s a good decision or a bad depending on the trade, but they do have to find out what they have this season with the young guys they have on the team.” Sam, where are you at with Oso Gadaro? He’s like a fun little project. Uh, you know, I I think you a very smart player, a very capable player. It’s obviously fun to watch him hoist up floaters and uh be this like secondary connector. And he’s going to continue to be like an important option. Um, you know, anytime he shares the floor with Deon Booker, for instance, because we know Deon Booker as being like in a more heliocentric system now where he’s going to be a single star, there’s going to be a lot of blitzing Deon Booker this season. It’s no secret. Jordan Nod knows it. He’s talked about it. Or maybe Jordan Nod hasn’t directly talked about it. Nigel Hayes Davis, who we mentioned earlier, and maybe we’ll talk about again, uh, did an interview where he was talking about having a conversation with Jord about how Deon Booker is going to be blitzed all the time. uh one of the best short roll playmaking options they have uh to sort of counteract that. Oh, so a Gdaro. So, it helps to have these really smart, skilled bigs. Can he play power forward? They certainly tried it a lot in summer league. Can he show any sort of offensive juice whatsoever to like get to the rim a little bit more and not just hit you with the floater or uh you know, his shooting form is so far off, but can he give you a 15 foot mid-range elbow jumper even at some point? Can he shoot better than 60% from the free throw line? You know, these are still big questions with OSO. And if the answer to those is no, he doesn’t really have a future as an NBA player. But if he develops any of those skills, then he’s a really interesting uh development project for them. And I am sure that they will find time to play him. Compared to Malawatch, who we were just talking about, I don’t really know who plays more this year. You know, I would I would guess that maybe Malawatch plays more than Oso, but but truthfully, I don’t know. Depends a lot on Mark Williams health. Depends a lot on their stomach for playing also at power forward too. And Malawatch’s three because if he can shoot threes right away, which I think they’re gonna let him do, then maybe they can play together. I want to see more of those. He opened summer league basically with the spinning lefty hook. I want to see more of those. Like let’s just give uh Malawatch like the ultimate license on offense. I agree. I’m here for it. Why not? Uh, so is there a dual big lineup in particular that you would like to see them try where it’s also at the four and then who do you want at the five? Would it be Malawatch in that case or big believer in Mark Williams hitting three-pointers at like an 80% clip or something, right? I think he will. I mean, like, let’s just be honest. I I know you’re not huge on Mark Williams, but if you’re talking about like let’s have a good net rating right now and you play OSO at the four, then yeah, you probably want him next to Mark Williams. Um, if uh you’re just interested in the future potential, OSO and Malawatch together would be very interesting as well. I also wouldn’t discount the possibility, Dan, that Malawatch will play a bit at the four with Mark Williams. Would not shock me at all. I I I I don’t think, again, not a coincidence that they hired the guy who worked with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. And I I just think that’s totally on the table for them, too. Not only is it not a coincidence, they talked a lot in the offseason about double big lineups, offensive rebounding, they they they’ve openly talked about it, whether it be Brian Gregory, Jordan, or uh even Matt Ishbia, like they’re talking about that as what the the league is leaning towards. And even the Rockets, the team that KD’s on, they seem to be a team that’s going to be willing to start Shangon and Adams. Neither are floor spaces. And maybe there is a world where there is some sort of workable NBA offense with nonf floor spacing bigs, two of them on the floor in the future. Yeah, I thought I thought a lot about that with the Rockets as to whether they’re going to try and start like a little bit of that where it’s like mash basketball is back. You need one of them to be like a good playmaker, but like kind of the days of you need Evan Mobley needs to shoot threes in Cleveland. Like I I wonder if that’s no longer like the bar for some sort of dribbling matters too. That’s the Osuo Agodaro thing that Sam mentioned too, right? It’s not just shooting, but some sort of dribbling and playmaking along with that could could really really go a long ways for him. Uh Mike, I thought Ryan Dunn interesting last year. The three-point efficiency obviously didn’t hold. The volume I think was more than fine. I know everyone’s going to point to the three-point efficiency and say this needs to go up. What other like developmental aspects aside from that though should we be monitoring as he heads into year two? The defense. It’s it’s it’s they’re actually going to put him, I think, in a really tough position to start this season in that he’s going to essentially be the starting power forward. I mean, I guess you could say it’s Dylan Brooks, but I think that Ryan Dunn is a little taller, and that puts him in the position to guard bigger guys occasionally, and I think I don’t think that’s necessarily his skill set, but his the reason he was drafted, the reason he was a first round pick, in fact, is his projected defense. And we have to see some of that become a reality. There were times where he played good defense last year. There was times where he was fouling too much and there was times where he was a little weak defensively uh last year. But for him to be successful, there is an obvious path where if he shoots 35% from three and does that consistently, then yes, he can be an NBA player. But he really has to show what that uh projected defense is for him in the NBA soon for him to have a long career in the NBA because I I don’t think he can get away with playing defense like he did last year, but he was a rookie, right? So, we just have to see that really come together for him. And I I think he seems to be a really hard worker and someone who thinks about the game a lot. Spent every day in the gym this off seasonason at the Sun’s practice facility, in fact. Uh so, I’m pretty excited to see what he can do next year. Do you think that playing like Dylan Brooks is a pretty I would call him a malleable defender to where he’s not super big but he can guard a bunch of different spots. Like do you think that that gives them the ability to make life easier on Ryan Dunn to maybe put him in better even though he’s the starting forward to maybe tailor his assignments accordingly? It’s a it’s a fascinating thing because we’re talking about a starting lineup that has Devin Booker and Jaylen Green in it as well. So like in some ways you have to hide both of those guys. Uh, so yeah, I mean if you’re playing a team like say the Lakers, they have LeBron James and they have Luca Donuch. You have two guys who can do that. But then who guards Austin Reeves, you know, it can be one of those situations where one of the guys in Deon Booker and Jaylen Green has to guard a guy no matter no matter what. But I think Ryan Dunn I think his best abilities last year were guarding smaller ball handlers, you know, shooting guards and point guards. And if they can find a way to do that for him regularly and just sort of say Dylan Brooks, you’re guarding Shangon tonight, you know, like if if they do start Steven Adams and Shangon, you got to put Dylan Brooks on Shangon. I don’t think you could put Ryan Don on him. Uh he’s just not strong enough. He doesn’t have the base necessary to do that. And really Dylan Brooks doesn’t either. But you’re sort of dealing with what your best options are with what you have at that point. So yeah, they’re going to have to Dylan Brooks I think is going to have a positive impact on Ryan Dunn period. Like just in general, I think putting a little more of the Dylan Brooks mindset into Ryan Dunn, that alone will have a positive impact on him, but also having another guy who can guard bigger will be helpful. Yes. Sam, what are your early impressions of Kobe Brea? And do you think that would you predict that they will convert him to a regular contract by the end of the season? Absolute baller. It helps, by the way, that every single young guy we’ve talked about, I mean, say what you will for all of their respective talent. Remains to be seen, but all of these guys are just smart. They haven’t drafted any dummies recently, and that’s been very intentional. We talked about Ryan Dunn, OSO’s ability to process the game, and then this year, Malawatch’s work ethic, Rashier Fleming’s work ethic, and now Kobe Brea, who you’re talking about, his work ethic, and I’ve watched some interviews with him, where he just has a really sharp way of processing the game as well. and and lots of different guys whose tape he watches um in order to help him as like you know an averagesized wing at the next level that that he understands that’s what he is. Uh I would love for for Kobe to to get an ability to really play a little bit and for his shooting to pop and ultimately for them to convert him from a two-way. There is kind of this glut of wings standing in his way, right? And and again, it goes back to that, you know, that topic of what is the timeline this year and, you know, do they want to win games? Do they feel that playing a lot of Grayson Allen and Royce O’Neal who are both still on the team and both competent, capable NBA wings, is that going to help them win more? Um, or is there going to be a need for someone like Kobe Brea at some point who is a better movement shooter even than Grayson Allen? You know, like Grayson Allen’s an awesome awesome shooter. Kobe Brea is like incredible. his his potential for shooting at the next level is truly something you don’t see uh very often. Um so I don’t know. It’s it it just comes back to that question of how much can they stomach uh kind of giving these guys a runway. Are there any other players you want to talk about that we haven’t discussed before we move on? Any scorching hot Grayson Allen or Royce O’Neal or you guys have mentioned Nigel Hayes Davis? Nigel Hayes Davis. Yeah. You want to take a mic or should I? I mean Nigel I can talk about Yeah. He’s the Jimmy Butler of the Euro League if you watch his tape a little bit, but with a three-point shot. Uh, so basically, uh, I don’t know what is that, Larry Bird, you know. So, he’s said he’s he said Mark Williams is Dwight Howard. Nigel Hayes Davis is Larry Bird. You’re building a hell of a team. He’s Euro League Larry Bird. No, the thing about Nigel Hayes Davis is he’s a 67 uh shooter and shot creator who doesn’t really play pick in pick and rolls, at least based on the the the highlights. like he does a lot of post-ups and he does a lot of like offball stuff. And you you’re talking about Kobe Brea. I think it’s I think it’s important to mention too that that that Grayson Allen is like the most obvious trade candidate on his team on this team based on his contract. And if there’s a world where the Suns do like a two for one trade where they put a couple of guys together to trade for someone mid-season, Grayson Allen probably is that guy. And now they have maybe Nigel Hayes Davis and Kobe Brea to step in and do some of the stuff offensively at least that Grayson Allen did. But Nigel Hayes Davis I think is was the best player in Euro League last year as far as scoring. He has the highest scoring game in Euro League history. I think 51 points is what he ended with in that uh in that game that he played. A little bit of cherrypicking involved, but hey, I think he’s allowed uh if you’re trying to chase that record, but shorter games too. He’s 30, right? He’s 30 years old and I think that’s important to mention with this team because it is a really young team and he’s a guy who’s played professional basketball for 10 years and I think there’s a world where especially when guys are not in and out of the lineup, guys are not playing. I think there’s a world where Nigel Hayes Davis actually plays a bigger role than we anticipated for this team going forward. If he can do movement shooting at 67, that’s valuable. Like there’s just not a ton of guys who can do a lot of movement shooting and and he did it in Euro League. Whether or not that translates to the NBA remains to be seen. He’s one of those guys where there’s a chance he doesn’t play at all and there’s a chance he has a much bigger role than we anticipated. And I don’t think it’s I think it’s too early to predict which one it’s going to be for him. Yeah, totally. I mean, he could be I remember when the Suns brought in Sunny Williams, you know, like 10 years ago from from playing overseas. And it could be another one of those or Mike James. It could be another one of those situations. or this could be the Yabasale uh of of this year where he starts playing pretty immediately and makes an impact and and you have people saying, “Oh, it’s actually, you know, a really good player.” So, we’ll see. He’s funny. He’s charismatic, too. Which helps. I’m just rooting for him. Are you guys ready to enter the cookie cutter/lightning round portion of Let’s do it. Let’s do it. I know we’re always going long in this podcast, so I apologize already. No, look, you guys are fine. Um, cool. Let’s begin here. So, I’ll start with you, Mike. Looking at this roster as of right now, without having seen it together on the court in full, what is its single biggest need to you? I think Oh, that’s interesting. I think the single biggest need for this team is another star player next to Devin Booker. Like, honestly, talent. Yeah. You have Dwight Howard with a three-point shot and Mark Williams. I don’t understand why you need another co-star. Yeah. And European but actually American Larry Bird. Let’s not forget. Yeah. No, I think like to me it’s just very clear that there’s so much on Deon Booker’s shoulders, which I think will be kind of fun to watch at times, but if you want to be a great team, like a truly great team, they need, you know, what they had in Chris Paul and then at times what they had in Kevin Durant, who obviously was great, but that team was never put together in a way that benefited either of them. Um, so, you know, I don’t know, maybe that is Jaylen Green or maybe it’s Malawatch at some point in the future, or maybe it’s uh whoever they trade Jaylen Green and Malawatch for, uh, you know, at the trade deadline or in the offseason or something. Uh, it’s difficult to really say what that is going to be, but to me that is the biggest need. Sam, do you have a second biggest need for them other than talent? Uh, draft picks. No. Yeah, draft picks. You know, future you did say that Grayson Allen you think is the most likely to be traded. You don’t think that Royce O’Neal like his salary is more a little like smaller somewhere? It is smaller. Yeah. But I think it’s smaller in a way that the Suns like um guy uh I think it’s Royce O’Neal because he’s probably one of the most underappreciated players of like the last five or seven years. Yeah, I think that’s fair to say. He just fits on every team. I think personally, but you know, wait, what did you say? I didn’t hear. I think that’s DeAndre Aton, one of the most underappreciated players of the last. Bradley Beal is is probably the first guy that go he’s probably underappreciated by every other team since he submarine the Suns from within. Yeah, it’s true. Uh Sam, so we’ll start with you here. Is there something about this team, whether it’s a strength, another weakness, a storyline, development, whatever, that’s flying under the radar that you think deserves a bigger spotlight? Well, yeah. I I mean it’s because they’re so young, but you know, just underscoring the fact again that they are long. They, you know, very intentionally have been scouting as many players as possible with these 7 foot plus wingspans. And and I don’t think people realize that like, yeah, I think at times they’re going to struggle to score, but also they’re probably going to grab a lot of offensive rebounds and they’re probably going to get a lot of deflections in a way that they just weren’t able to impact the game in the past. And I don’t know, like if you want an optimistic case on the Suns and and you’re looking for ways to maybe potentially hit their over on their overunder, that could be it. That just they’re going to tap into a pure effort that they simply did not display in the past couple of years. Um so yeah, I I think they’re going to be much more of a league pass team this year. Even if they don’t win as many games, they’re just going to be more fun to watch. You know, I had this in the outline and skipped over it, but in part because they’re so huge, I find myself very intrigued by what they could be defensively, which feels very weird to say about a team that’s built or headlined by Devin Booker and Jaylen Green like first and foremost. Like what do you make of like this? Could this be a team that like could you see their defense outperforming their offense? Is that the expectation within Absolutely. I don’t It’s almost my baseline expectation. I Well, I don’t know. I guess I’m not sure. I didn’t realize it was that duh. I thought I was proposing something novel. No, no, no, no, no. I’m not here to criticize your your No, I’m not saying you’re criticizing. That’s why I have this podcast. I’m not as in touch with like what the fan base is thinking or what the internal expectations are. Well, so we do our overunder. We make our own overunders for the team every year and then release it as an episode. We haven’t done that yet. Mike always sets those. But Mike, would you say I’ll I’ll turn it to you. Yeah. What’s your is your expectation that the offense or the defense ranks better this year? You think it’s offense? Okay. I do. Yeah. I I think it’s so I I but I do think that to your point, Dan, the defense is like if you’re looking at what culture the the Suns are trying to reset the culture right now. And if you look at the culture that they’re trying to set for this team, the thing that Matt Echbia has talked about since uh since the end of the season was trying to find a team where guys are working hard every single night and the the fan base will leave the games. This is how he describes it. Even if they don’t win, thinking, “Well, at least they tried, you know, because I think that the team hot dogs.” That’s Yeah. Yeah. That’s the That’s Matt views his roster as like, “Give me the guys who theoretically could sell the most mortgages possible. Give me a team full of give me just a team full of star entrepreneurs.” Matine Cleaves is is actually finding ways to motivate both the actual mortgage salesman and now the NBA team. Uh, but you know, I I I do think that it just roster-wise, I think the combination of Jaylen Green and Devin Booker and and Mark Williams in the starting lineup is where it’s difficult for me to say that they can put a great defense together right away because those are just three defenders that you can’t count on every single game. But if you look at the guys that come in on the bench off uh outside of them, if you look at Dylan Brooks and Jaylen and Ryan Dunn, there is like personnel that you can start slotting in and finding ways to put an interesting defense out onto the floor at times, especially if they are willing to sacrifice some of the offense for it. Um, but I do think that it will be a little more difficult to do that. And I think honestly they still have a bunch of guys who can shoot threes. You know, Dylan Brooks, Jaylen, uh, Jaylen Green, uh, Royce O’Neal, Grayson Allen, and then they have Devin Booker. And if you put those guys around Deon Booker, I think you can just find a way to a relatively good offense just based on that alone. So, I think it’s just going to be an easier path to find a good offense than a good defense. Mike, is there anything else that you think is flying under the radar about this team? If they’re on a path to win 25 games this season, how cheap can the hot dogs get? Can they go to $1? Can they go to 50 cents? Like, what is Matt Ishbia willing to do to get fans in the games? Uh, will he pay people to watch the team? The games are free right now. Or is he gonna offer some money to watch the games on TV to players? That’s what I’m I’m interested to see. Mike hates baseball, but I’m sure he’s aware of the 999 challenge at baseball games. Nine hot dogs, nine beers, nine innings. I’ve actually never never heard of that. No. Yeah, heard of that either. No, I’m disappointed in both of you guys right now. But I would like I would like to see a Suns version cuz it’s boring if you do it with four quarters. Yeah, I think you could tie it to the number of Jaylen Green three-point attempts. I’d like to see if we can get up past 10, 11, 12. Jaylen Green shoots 14 threes in a game. I’m slamming 14 hot dogs. I’m drinking 14 beers. You know, I I think the sky’s is the limit. So, are you allowed to start from the first three or is this cumulative where you don’t know until the final buzzer sounds and you find out that hot dogs? Yeah, you just got to slam them all at once. No, I think you every time he takes hoist another three, you got to go between the quarters, you have to go buy the hot dogs. Yeah, I like that. Okay, so you two are building a 10-man rotation for this team. Who are the starters and then who are the five most used reserves? I think we could do this together, Sam. Because the starters we know, right? It’s Devin Booker, Jaylen Green, Ryan Dunn, Dylan Brooks, Mark Williams. Mark Williams. Yep. And then the two guys I think that are or I think there are three guys that are absolutely guaranteed to get minutes off the bench in Colin Gillespie, uh Royce O’Neal, Grayson Allen. I agree. Like that’s that’s just a guaranteed. So, the next two guys are the next two guys that is the most interesting. And I think Malawatch, right? We’re just going to start with him. Mhm. And then who’s the last guy? That is the question. Would would you two be like even if they’re healthy, wouldn’t you be a little discouraged if the number 10 overall pick was not like a member of what ends up being their top 10 rotation? Like, I know they might have immediate expectations, but you have real equity invested in this guy. I mean, I guess there’s a chance they start the season without him playing much and they’re trying to get him a little ready, but like midway through the season, this guy should be getting minutes every game he’s healthy for, just period. I think that they’re not doing that. We’re going to hammer him for it. Yeah. Based on the last available options, we we’ve listed nine guys, right? Um, what we’re obviously missing is backup power forward. You know, you could say positions don’t matter anymore, but that’s more or less what we’re looking for. Your options are Oso Agataro who’s probably the best I don’t know maybe the best remaining player but a weird fit at power forward and we don’t know how frequently they’re they’re willing to do it. Um you could do Rashier Fleming who they just drafted in the second round who just has the perfect body to play that position but obviously no NBA experience. You could do Nigel Hayes Davis, who also doesn’t really have the NBA experience, but has the most veteran basketball playing experience, is maybe the smartest player of those three. Uh, I could see them doing anything, guys. Honestly, I’m not sure who they start with there. Yeah, I I I think I think that maybe Nigel. I think that it’s probably going to be You guys have sold me on him just talking him up in this podcast. So, yeah, we were I will remember start. Yeah, there was a year. He might honestly if if Ryan Dunn can’t figure it out right early in the season, he might honestly. But uh I there was a podcast a few years ago where we really sold you on Tumani Kamar and we were right about that. You were I I actually credit you guys with that like multiple times a year at this point cuz nobody had heard of him but we were like this guy’s going to be good and then the Suns traded him like two weeks later. So yeah. Well, it’s because we went into summer league with with really the most pathetic summer league roster you’ve ever seen of Tumani Kumar and Ish Wayne Wright being the guys who like were featured. I remember those guys. And so we were just clinging on to Hope. We were like, “This Tumani Kamar guy could be something.” But, you know, he looked awesome right away. Yeah, he was. He was. He’s I I mean, you guys like really trumped up his defense. Uh loaded word there. You really built up his defense. Um, but the offensive development from him has just been I did not see it coming. Like he shot like a real volume of threes last year and hit them at a high clip. And there’s some like straight line drive stuff to what he does. And I don’t think I ever thought he was going to be a five position defender basically. He’s fantastic. And I think there’s still some screening stuff that you can do with him that they haven’t fully leaned into, but they’re going to find a way to do it. You’re right. They probably need like actual spacing to like even try to make that work. and they’ve decided to punt on that even further for some reason, but neither here nor there. Um, my hot take is that the Suns probably shouldn’t have traded him now in hindsight. I feel like they should have tried to keep him. That is the Tumani Kamara trade now because he’s the best player from that trade, you know, out of DeAndre and Grayson and Ysef Nerkish. Uh, you know, he’s the guy and Nir Little, if you remember, was in that trade as well. But yeah, that is uh he’s the best player. So, this is another question for the two of you, and I know it’s to some extent matchup dependent, but I’m going to force you to pick anyway. What is the most used or go-to closing lineup for this team? It’s a really good question. It might be the starting lineup, right? It’s probably just It’s probably just the starting lineup, unless one of these young guys is like far more um advanced than than we’re expecting. So, is there like someone in particular you’d circle like, “Oh, I could see them wedging their way into the closing vibe.” Royce O’Neal. I think would have been my pick is over Dunn or something. Yeah. Or even potentially over Jaylen Green. I hate to say it, but like I think there’s a world where where Devin Booker, Royce O’Neal, Ryan Dunn, Dylan Brooks, and then a center could potentially play. Um it’s it’s tough to have that little ball handling, but if if if there’s a a team that they need the defense over the offense, then it could be Royce. What about Colin Gillespie over Jaylen Green? I I think there’s a world where we’re looking at the net rating lineups at the, you know, halfway through the season and they’re going to break my heart. Yeah, I could totally see it. Yeah. I don’t I don’t know that I could see it like politically. I would just be shocked if we see Colin Gillespie closing games over I don’t even mean to jump uh dump excuse me on Jaylen Green but just you’re paying him so much money and if you want him to have any sort of trade value or force Jaylen Green to quote unquote happen I would just be like if he’s not a regular member of the lineup that’s closing games that you’re trying to win uh we have problems if I’m Phoenix yeah well yeah that could still happen though like I’m not going to leave it off the table I just think the problem with the Suns or for the Suns is that not only do they need him to be good to potentially be good this year. I think they, you know, no matter what they say, I think they still view him as a potential trade candidate. So, they need him to play in order to sort of boost that stock as well. We’ll start with you, Sam. Is there a quirky or weirdo lineup you want to see Jordan Ha try this year? It’s kind of similar to what we were just talking about. I I think Well, Malawatch at the four, right? Um, but then pair that with, let’s say, Devin Booker and Gillespie in the back court, I think gives you like enough of a a baseline of, you know, dribbling, penetrative ability, shooting ability, right? So, let’s say Booker and Gillespie. Small forward of choice could be Dylan Brooks, could be Royce O’Neal, could be Ryan Dunn, just someone who’s like has the positional size, has some shooting, and then Malawatchin Williams and just see what happens. I want to see that front court and I had not even considered those two playing together until you mentioned something earlier. I really want to see Malawatch. I don’t know if it’ll look any good at all. But, you know, I know both Malawatcha and Mark Williams shot 80% from the free throw line in their respective places last year. And so, can either of them actually shoot NBA threes? No idea. But you have more reason to believe that they can than say Oso or you know these other guys? Mike, do you have a weirdo lineup? I do. I do. I think I would go with Devin Booker at the point guard, Royce O’Neal, Dylan Brooks, Oso Igadaro, and then a center. I like Mark, we’ll say Mark Williams because I think it could be Malawatch as well. But I think there’s a world where if you create a lineup where Oso Agaro is actually the second ball handler, like that’s his goal. That’s his role. He has to do it. And you can find ways to even potentially run some inverted pick and rolls with other guys sending setting screens for him. I actually really like the prospect of that. I I I think Oso Gdora was awesome in summer league and if there’s some of that that translates to the NBA, I’d be really excited. But sort of basically putting Deon Booker on the floor with a bunch of guys who could potentially play defense uh might be the best version of what the Suns could be next year as well uh in those lineups. It wouldn’t shock me if we’re looking halfway through the year and that’s the best lineups the Suns have. This was not my choice coming in, but because you both sold me on Nigel Hayes Davis. I want to see Devin Booker at point, we’ll go Dylan Brooks, Royce O’Neal, Nigel Hayes Davis, and Oso Egodaro. That’s the lineup. That’s fun. Yeah, that’s a bunch of smart basketball players. Lot of ball skills. Yeah. Yeah. So, before we get before I force you guys to make some predictions, is there anything anyone we haven’t talked about that you think warrants some discussion? I think we’ve talked about literally every player on the roster except maybe Jimbo Richards, Nick Richards, uh, who we started calling He’s trying to sell me used tires. That’s all I’m saying. We started calling him Jimbo Richards because he’s got a little elbow jumper that he was breaking out towards the the back half of the season. I don’t really have anything interesting to say about Nick Richards. He’s he’s a player. They have to keep him because Mark Williams is so, you know, injured injury. I’ll be annoyed if he’s playing over Malawatch, though. That’ll be something that annoys me as someone who has no emotional ties to the Suns. Yeah. Yeah, that would be insane. No, otherwise. Yeah, I think we covered everyone. So, let’s start here. Um, where do you how many games do you think this team can win and where do you see them landing in the larger context of the the Western Conference? Well, I think I speak for all Suns fans when I say that anything less than 55 games uh won is is probably going to be a disappointment based on where where we’re setting our expectations. Is that right? Sam has one goal, more games than the Rockets, I think, is what Sam wants them to win. That’s not true. That’s not going to happen. Happen in Houston for that to even be a reality. I guess Kevin Durant would really have to accelerate like the Kevin Durant just does his thing, sends off a few tweets, and then watch the turmoil begin. Yeah, we’re going to find out that Dylan Brooks was the most important player on that team. That’s what’s going to happen. Yeah. Uh my serious answer to your question, Dan, is well, how did you phrase it? A number of wins. Is that what you want? if you want to get like you could go floor ceiling just get like what would be the number of wins that you think this team could realistically so I the most recent overunder I saw I think was FanDuel at 31 a half and I totally understand all of the various reasons to be pessimistic about this team also the Western Conference is just a beast you know 31 wins in the west might be the equivalent of say 38 in the East or something but all that being said I I think 31 and a half is a little bit low I think this team really can my expectation is like 35 five. Maybe if I had to just throw a number out there, they could be better. I think I agree. I think I agree. And that’s like basically what they did last year. It’s not much better or worse. But I I I think that with them, if they’re in in sort of the mode of competing for a playin spot, that’s sort of what I would expect. But the floor, if we’re talking floor ceiling, the floor is really low. You know, if Deon Booker doesn’t play a lot this year, they could be really, really bad. A lot is going to ride on how many games he plays. I I always feel this is an interesting in like in a team in a Suns case where they feel so fringe. How many teams would you be prepared to guarantee like specific teams that they’re better than this year? Because I just did this actually. Yeah. Utah and New Orleans might be the only two that I’m prepared to guarantee the Suns will be better than them. I meant in the West specifically. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Okay. Um yeah, you know, look, I’m a big avid subscriber to Michael Porter Jr.’s podcast and I think the Nets are going somewhere. Yeah. In the West, I think it’s just the Jazz and then Yeah, maybe the Pelicans. That’s it. Yeah. And then and then there’s teams that you could question, you know, how close they could be to the Suns at that point. The guy all the teams that are competing for the playin spot. Yeah. Is there a team I didn’t put this on the outline, but like a good team in the West that you think they actually match up particularly well against based on how they’re built right now? Not particularly. They’re mentally soft. Sam is all They’re mentally soft. Ryan Dunn’s going to be in his head. Uh uh. No. A serious answer to that question. Um not I haven’t thought about this. Actually, I think it’s the starting lineup being relatively small compared to what they can put on the floor makes it a little tougher uh for me to to find a good good matchup for them. Guys, as always, this was fantastic. Thank you for giving me so much of your time. Are you able to tell our audience where they can find you and all the great work that you do? And I will begin with Sam here, please. Uh it says on screen at uh Scooper Hoops, as Dan said, that’s me on Twitter. Um you did not see us on video because we are part of the witness protection program because of all of the Kevin Durant stands. Uh so if you work in the Houston media, uh good luck. They’re coming for you next. And otherwise, what other good work uh do we do? I don’t think we do anything. We just talk about the Suns multiple times a week. Come check us out. Yeah, it’s called the Timeline, a Phoenix Suns podcast. You can find it in all the places that podcasts are heard. Uh or follow on Twitter, protected Pick is my name. Uh one of my favorite podcasts to listen to. The link to it will be in the podcast YouTube description as well as to their Patreon. So, go check that out. Support these guys. They do great work. Once more, thank you guys so much. And as you know by now, I will be pestering you again down the line. Thanks, Dan. [Music]

Dan is joined by Mike Vigil (@protectedpick) and Sam Cooper (@scooperhoops) of @TheTimelineAPhoenixSunsChannel for a deep dive into the 2025-26 Phoenix Suns! SUBSCRIBE TO THE THE TIMELINE’s PATREON HERE: https://www.patreon.com/thetimeline. CHAPTERS BELOW.

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CHAPTERS⤵️
0:00 – INTRO
1:29 – RIP to the Kevin Durant era
8:14 – The second Kevin Durant trade
13:34 – The Bradley Beal Exit
18:23 – The hiring of Brian Gregory
21:13 – Impact of Jordan Ott hire
24:20 – The future of Devin Booker
31:09 – Jalen Green’s fit
36:55 – Importance of Collin Gillespie
43:03 – Mark Williams expectations
49:10 – Development of Khaman Maluach
53:08 – Continued development of Oso Ighodaro
57:09 – Continued development of Ryan Dunn
1:00:11 – Early impressions of Koby Brea
1:02:00 – Potential of Nigel Hayes-Davis
1:04:02 – Biggest needs
1:06:43 – Under the radar storylines
1:11:53 – Top-10 rotation
1:15:38 – Go-to crunch-time lineup
1:17:22 – Weirdo lineups we want to see
1:19:40 – PREDICTIONS

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