Pirates Fan Forum Ep. 213 So… that stuff happened

Pirates Fan Forum Ep. 213 So… that stuff happened

[Music] [Music] [Music] Hello and welcome to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. I am your host Gary Morgan. With me as always, my good friend Jim Stam. Boy, Jim, I was like really struggling for coming up with subjects this week. I mean, what is there to talk about? Anything at all? No. No, nothing. I mean, nothing’s going on with the Pirates. There’s no news. There’s no breaking stories. There’s no theories. There’s no um uh what’s the word I’m looking for? No, there’s nothing going on at all. I mean, I I saw Jason Mackey went on with uh Philip Pony and and went through the misquote gauntlet again and it’s it’s just over and over again. That in fact that might be the biggest trade so far of the off season. We have already traded Noah Ohio for Jason Mackey again. Yes. Yes. In amongst all the other shuffling within the pirates, it it appears Jason, a friend of the show, is going back to the pirates beat. And uh Noah is on to greener pastures. And uh I I want to give Noah some credit. You know, you if uh you’re moving on um to a different um you know, position, you kind of want to empty the empty the chambers, right? Um and I thought he did a good job of that. So, I want to give Noah Hiles some credit for that. So, yeah, he really went after Travis Williams and Travis Williams just had no answers whatsoever. It was so funny. And and Jim, I just was I came away from that interview. Listen, guys, if you’re just joining us or whatever, listen, this is not going to be a formal episode of anything. This is going to be two friends that haven’t talked in a week talking about all the crap that happened this week. That’s all. All right. So, get your cheesecake out. Let’s do some Golden Girls. This is two old dudes talking baseball. Two old ladies talking baseball. But, dude, Greg Greg’s right. Period. Full stop. He had he had so many gems in that one. Like what my favorite I thought the one that I couldn’t get out of my head was that we don’t want to lose momentum. Well yes you do. Yes you do my friend. You absolutely want to lose that momentum. The momentum is going in the wrong direction. You actually need something to help it stop and turn on a dime. You know you don’t want to keep this train rolling. You know he just didn’t have good answers. And part of that is let’s be honest, man. Job number one is making sure that the arrow never gets firmly pointed back at anybody else, right? Yeah. Yeah. I I thought Travis Williams was the star of of the day that day. Um which how or why that would even happen, I don’t know. um to finally let him out of whatever closet he’s in at at PNC Park and for him to just kind of blurt out that like he first of all he was dead serious about making the postseason delivering the postseason period full stop deliver the postseason Gary I wouldn’t let I wouldn’t let Travis Williams deliver me a pizza, let alone let alone anything about the posties. And what the hell does he know about that? The best thing I can say from that whole exchange is I very much so believe that for all of them, yeah, shoot for the moon. You might as well because I guarantee that’s the if you don’t make the playoffs this year, you are all gone. I mean, we we all know what’s coming. And we all know like exactly why that it’s going to go one more year here. They don’t want to start something fresh before they potentially have to shut it down. It seemed like one of those where screw it, we’re all done anyway if we can’t get it done. And so I’m just going to say things that are sounding super confident and hope by some miracle it works. I just it was so funny. It was like I mean like I I don’t know man. It had like an air of desperation to it. Like he was like doggy paddling as best he could. Like he this dude truly has no idea what he’s talking about with I don’t even know what approach that they think they’re taking. I really don’t. I I I don’t I’m floored. And to make matters worse, like geez, Jim, let’s move the ball forward a little bit because we got a lot of ground to cover. Then you you know, of all things, you you move forward and you fire Oscar Morin and the and the pitching side of things gets addressed or gets gets worked over. The pitching’s worked, you know. Now, I I’ve I’ve seen things I’m I’m glad I was I was slow about talking about it. Okay. I really want I really am because it’s it leaked out slowly that the players had been talked to and they were involved and and maybe it wasn’t all so rosy and peaches and cream and some of the pitchers seem to think they could have done better. You know what I mean? And man, I I feel compelled to just insert here while I didn’t see this coming. I I think it’s fair to note that like a team that lost 90 plus games, I I don’t know that I want to stand in the way of anything changing. You know, something’s got to change, right? They turned everything as is. Yeah. I I think what it comes down to is is like I guess most people getting the news would have thought If there was one area that they wouldn’t touch, it might have been the pitching, right? You know, like the hitting. Um, you can go there. You can go to the GM. You can go to Rebello getting let go at third base. He’s had his share of interesting things happen to him with uh sends and things of that nature. I just think that’s what caught people off guard is. Not that there’s not a reason for it. Yeah, it’s just that like if you were ranking things you thought might change, that would be the one kind of down at the bottom of the list. So, it catch it just catches everybody by surprise. And I have no problem with changing this anyway. I mean, like think about this for for five seconds. Do you when you found out they were changing the pitching coach, you were shocked by it. I’m sure you were taken aback by it and you were like basically why would you mess with anything there? The way the pitching’s going. That was probably your first thought. We’ve talked about this enough that I I feel pretty confident saying that’s where we both feel. Right. Sure. So after you you come to that realization with with this team and and where they are with pitching and everything and you kind of like look at the situation and then you hear all of the stuff involved for for how they got here and came to the decision. All I could think to myself was how much better could you possibly get? Like let’s say Don’s right and like you can improve a little bit. This is basically like finding ways to get the last drop of lemon juice out of the rind after you’ve made margaritas and like uh you might improve a little bit. You might, but the margin’s so small there, right? Yeah. It it does tell me though, I would have to guess is that that it was probably more than just a couple guys had some things to to kind of complain about. It sounds to me like to make this type of change, you’ve got you’ve got some pretty um uh you’ve got a number of people saying uh things aren’t going well and that they’re more dysfunctional and it can’t maybe be be uh corrected. Wouldn’t you wouldn’t you think because not everybody’s getting along with everybody, but it has to be enough. I’m sure there were a few players that were basically like, “Yeah, I I’d be okay if you moved on from him.” I’m sure there are a few that straight up had issue. I I mean, I and I know there were, but I I look at like the overall body of work and it surprised me that they went that route. I just didn’t think that they would bother touching that. It just seemed like it was working so well. That that said, you know, if maybe Don is preaching from the pulpit and, you know, he’s got he’s got a deacon standing over there on the other side preaching something different or holding out resentment about, you know, his former boss being let go. May we don’t know what’s going on there. Yeah. I Okay, let’s talk about the Don Kelly angle to this, right? Um, let’s take our break and then we can talk about is this some some autonomy for Don Kelly or is this just um business as usual? Is he going to get to call some of his own shots here? I love how since I’ve been doing the other show, you have completely taken over being in charge and reminded me we need to take breaks, bro. I love it. It’s such a partnership here at at the Pirates Fan Forum. I love it. Teamwork. At DK Pittsburgh Sports, we take pride in coverage that connects our city’s fans to their favorite teams. Now that connection’s stronger than ever. Introducing our all-new state-of-the-art app. Find expert inside reporting and original podcasts. Check live box scores, track the latest stats, chat it up with our community of thousands of fans, all in one place. The new app from DK Pittsburgh Sports. Coverage that connects. [Music] All right. Hey, welcome back to the Pirates fan forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports. You want to talk about Don Kelly? I think that’s a good place to go because it’s not all been negative. I don’t think I I certainly don’t hate the extension of Don Kelly. I I like him. I trust his motives. I trust his where his heart is. I believe he truly wants to do what’s best for the city of Pittsburgh and the Pittsburgh Pirates. But I haven’t been able to say that with a straight face for quite some time, you know. And not that Derek Shelton was a bad guy in the community or anything, but I just didn’t feel like he was pushing the right buttons. Don Kelly, maybe I think there’s a little bit more upside there. I don’t know this is a World Series guy, but I’m okay with this. Whatever, right? Yeah. I think um you know, I I’m in Mount Lebanon. I’ve I’ve talked to people. Kelly’s a Mount Lebanon guy. Any everything I have heard about him has been positive. Um that he’s always been a good guy. Um that there there were no no criticis criticisms or complaints. What I will say is I mean well that’s what’s going on on the polo courts of Mount Lebanon. But what’s going on in the streets? Yeah. I aloquip a jib now. What’s this is as I was sharing gray pupon from my limo to another person. I love it. Anybody under 40 didn’t get that reference. I don’t know if we have anybody under 40, but anyways, it was still funny. Um, I I I think my only question would be is is like what would be the rush in just like what was the rush in in seeing how things kind of were going to shake out around baseball to see what was going to happen if anybody else was going to become available because even Don Kelly said this and he’s right by the way. He said, “Hey, you know, I’m still learning. I’m still this is new to me. Gene Lamont was a big help and there’s a lot more to it and all these things and I’m like, okay, great. I appreciate the honesty, but is this the kind of guy that you want maybe dealing with like the pressures of winning now and the buttons to push and the experience when he doesn’t have it, right? I I mean, I think the bench coach situation is important. Like, I don’t believe Jamont’s going to come back. I think that that was a a one-time favor that he was doing to Don Kelly and I I appreciate that he did it and and I get the the reason that he was the the pick there, but I think you need somebody that has coached in the playoffs at least. I Ron Washington’s going to get let go from the Angels. Listen, that’s a guy that I think at this point of his career probably time to think about taking a bench coach role. You know what I mean? and and I know he’s had health issues, but Yes. Yeah. But I think he could have a positive impact on on a team like this. He’s got a lot of good experience with some winning organizations. Um I just I think that would be he may be too crotchety though, like for pir like pirates management because he will say what he thinks. I Well, I think that might be a little bit why I’m pitching for him because I I think if even Ben Cherington had alluded to the fact that uh one of the things he liked about Don Kelly was that even before he had the security of this position, he pushed back on things and made sure that he fought for his dugout and what and things that he wanted to change. They didn’t name specific things, but I think that’s good to hear. I mean, I’m not going to kill the the the concept because I don’t necessarily like the guy it came from. I think that’s something positive to take from that. And that for that, I would hope they’d be open to to another person that thinks a little bit differently about pushing back on some of that stuff. You know, maybe they need more balance. Well, I do think you need I do think you need um that staff to be a little bit more um what’s what’s the term I’m looking for? Outside of pirates seasoned season outside of the Pirates organization. Yes. Outside voice and a sure voice, right? Like when Derek Shelton tried to all of a sudden be sure about things and kind of flipped the switch into its serious mode, I don’t think anybody bought it, you know? It seemed desperate. Um, it did. It seemed a lot like uh trying to have a kid just prevent a divorce, didn’t it? Like, you know what I mean, right? Yeah. you you’re just somebody that like all of a sudden who’s been, you know, a screw-up and now all of a sudden he’s going to be serious about things and you’re supposed to listen to to that person as a boss or whatever, right? Take that seriously. I think that’s what happened with him. And so, like, I think Don Kelly has I think the players like him. I think he is good for the players. I think his best attribute is how he deals with people. Um, but if the if things get going rough again, does Don Kelly have the chops to hold people accountable and deal with things if things start going sideways? I think that’s where you get the mature manager in place that has a resume and that can stop that as it’s happening or try to stop it, right? Like Josh here has brought up Bob Melvin a couple times. perfectly fine suggestion. I’m not married to any of the people that we’ve brought up, but you know, I I there’s some that I’m dead against. I wouldn’t think I wouldn’t even consider, but there’s some I’m perfectly open to. That’s one of them. I just um I think to me if you’re gonna run around parading around PNC Park that it’s do or die playoffs no matter what. Well, I think it’s time to admit that Don is young and everything he does is really going to be a first. It’s going to be the first time he’s running a spring training this year. It’s going to be the first time he’s had input on um draft situations and draft decisions and it’s the first time he’ll have input on promotions and you know cut decisions and tender options. You know, there’s all kinds of brand new stuff. He’s really never had to personally I’m sure he’s been asked his opinion, but to be like in the room and having to like help make those decisions is completely different. if they actually succeed and make the playoffs. Jim, that to me is the key as to why I have to have an experienced bench coach in here. In other words, I don’t want them to just promote Truey because he’s here. I want them to get him go out and get some get him some help. That’s all I’m saying. I think that that’s that’s I hadn’t even really thought about this part of it. get so focused on Don Kelly being the manager. But I think as we talk this through, Gary, that is that is probably the biggest part of this is right because if you’ve got a guy that’s got some Why do you think Gene Lamont was there for the same reason like just somebody who has knowledge, experience, he can’t do the day-to-day stuff, but he can be your consiglier, if you will, right? like he he’s there to help you through those tough spots. What if they get off to a slow start again? And that’s why I think like Terry Francona and yes, man, Reds, it’s funny. Red’s fans seem to be like out on Terry, but what I give Terry Francona credit for is that was a team that had some ups and downs and they had young guys and like he found a way to at least get them to the playoffs and kind of keep things keep the boat from rocking too much too wildly where it was lost completely. The thing about Frank Cona that I think is beautiful is like he’ll never say it, but you can tell and he managed the team as such all year. I think you could tell he knew at best he was getting this team a taste this year. You know what I mean? And he just he managed them as such all year. He did exactly what he said he would do. Get them to the playoffs. And it wasn’t pretty, but no, it wasn’t close, but he did it. you know, he drugg him across the finish line and and I bet he’s got a pretty firm vision of what needs changed, right? Don’t let’s not fool ourselves. They need a lot of what the Pirates need. They need some consistent freaking offense, right? you know, but even for that team power, but but he’s the type of guy that at least after this year, okay, we survived it, we got to the playoffs, he’ll have some real ideas and um thoughts about where they want to go direction-wise and the things that they’re still missing. Um, and these are the things that like I don’t that decades of baseball experience I think get you. The beauty of him though is he’ll put in his wish list, right? He’ll say, “This is what I think we need.” Right? And if his general manager doesn’t give him his wish list in in its entirety, he’s not just going to fold his arms and and cry that he can’t build a shed. He’s going to build you some kind of a box that’ll hold thing keep things dry. It might not be a a shed because you didn’t send enough parts, but he can still get the job done. Yeah, he’ll figure it out. It’s funny like Red’s fans I just I’ve seen quite a bit of backlash about him. Um I do think that that’s the difference is and that’d be the only concern I have with Don Kelly. I will say, Gary, I thought, can could the Pirates not just do that, right? Don Kelly is a local guy. And that thing got hijacked by Travis Williams and the fact that nobody could ask Ben Sharington any questions. And then when they finally did, he said he was back and then it became not about Don Kelly and it became about all this other stuff. It’s like, you know what? Can they not just get that part right? You know what it is though? It’s part of them building this illusion. Okay. Part of their illusion is that what do you I didn’t even realize you guys would be asking about that today. Like you guys brought it up. You guys were the ones that asked if I was coming back. I I never suggested I wasn’t or anything. I I you know I just said I was happy to work with Don again and then I I guess it prompted a question to you know geez and you know you see how they played it because like it was just a sides scrum. It wasn’t a formal like I’m coming back. It was a sides scrum after that whole thing. It was completely orchestrated to Yeah. Like it’s like doing a press conference and saying all this stuff about what’s going on and then right before you walk off the stage, you go, “Oh, by the way, I’m coming back.” And then just run run off the stage and try to get out of the get out of the building. And they were like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.” And then like they caught him and sweaty Travis. It’s the sub it’s the subtrafuge of Michael Scarn, you know, like it’s it’s so tricky. Yeah. And then like So then everybody’s like, “Oh, you’re coming back.” Well, that’s the story, which it was, but like separate this stuff like because then they they keep the train rolling and they get all the way to Travis and then Travis just drops a bomb. Like, as bad as you and I feel like Ben Sharington is at communication. And listen, he does some things well, but communication, holy crap, he’s so bad at it. the double talk, the the 50 extra words to to say thing about nothing. Travis Williams makes him look like Socrates. I mean, it is awful, dude. But why was he out there, Gary? Honest to God, was he just trying to go to the bathroom and someone caught him and was like, “Hey, it was it was announced beforehand like I saw Noah House tweet out that he was going to be speaking too.” And my first thought was like, “Okay, they’re announcing that that Ben Sharington staying too.” That was my first thought when they said, “Now, I thought Williams would do that.” That’s what the way I thought it was going to go is they were going to do the Williams thing into uh Ben Sharington and then they would invite Don Kelly up on stage and announce that and then that would be the taste in the mouth you’re left with even though people would have way more questions and come back to it and everything. The thing is what they’re trying to do is have Bob escape having to talk. That’s why Travis had to show up. Yeah. But he’s going to have to because what they didn’t anticipate is that a lot of us, especially me, are like first and foremost, well, why isn’t Travis fired? Like, I want to talk about that, you know? So, that can only be answered by one other mofo. Yeah. Who wasn’t who knows where where uh Bobby was. It just makes it just makes me laugh. It was like he came out and in his mind Travis was saying, “Don’t say making the postseason. Don’t say making the postseason. Don’t say making the postseason.” And somebody went, “Travis, tell me.” And he went, “Making the postseason. Full full stop. Period. Uh, yeah, we’re all in.” It was just so I don’t mind the goal because frankly, Jim, it should be that should be their goal. Like we’re making we’re making a lot of fun of it and and we’re bashing them for saying it, but in all sincerity, it should be their damn goal. But out of the other side of their mouth, we’ve also come to find out it doesn’t really sound like they plan to spend a whole lot more, right? And we don’t really know their plan moving forward or how they’re going to address it. So, do you feel like there’s going to really be anything different? I asked my listeners on uh Locked On this morning, and I might as well ask it here, too, because I I’m dying for your answer. All right. You didn’t want Ben Cherington really to do anything at the deadline, right? Well, now that he he’s staying, would you do you feel the same way? Do you want him to just sit on his hands? Would you rather at this point they just go with kids? They I think if you go around this diamond and and the mound and everything and everything they have at their disposal and you decided to just say screw it. This is a sandbox we’re playing in. F it. No, we’re not even going to go out and get anybody. It’s not worth it. Just not going to do it. I don’t think the team gets backwards. I think they kind of move forward anyway. I just do. I almost would prefer that. If you’re gonna bring in like Tommy fams and whatnot, spare me. Just do kids. It’s interesting. Um because uh Greg, think on it for a minute. No, I I I’ll go with the comment first and then I’ll I’ll I’ll think of it because Gregory Hy earlier in the chat said I I don’t want Pirates to do anything of significance this off seasonason. I have no confidence in Sharington. And but this is this is the problem though, right? That and a question I think both of us have asked for quite a while, which was guys, if he’s back, what do you want him to do? Because like if he just sits there and does nothing cuz we don’t cuz you don’t trust him and that’s what you hope for. Well, that’s another year of Paul’s schemes, right? Like so are you okay with that? Are you okay with wasting it? Um, if if we don’t do anything and we get marginally better by a few games, five games even, it I’d rather I’d rather just die trying. Even if the guy who’s going to be pulling the levers hasn’t exactly been uh a great puller of le levels uh since he’s been here, right? I’m just saying like the Pirates have put us in this kind of position though. this is where we’re at. You know, you don’t trust the the general manager to do anything, but you know, he has to do something. And I just don’t think anybody has a real clear understanding or feeling or even direction they want to point that this team should actually go. Like, I think if I really tried, Jim, I think I could make a pretty damn compelling argument to just leave things go. I really do. I think I could make a pretty compelling argument that I’ll have a top five pitching staff next year if I just leave everything go. I’ll have a top five pitching staff next year and I’ll hit slightly better. I’ll be at least like between 20th and 25th if I just do nothing. You’re probably right in a vacuum in the sense that that very well could be. For me though, it comes back to I just don’t want to waste another year of Paul. And so like I want to at least try like like whatever that means for the Pirates, let’s just at least try to get better more than marginally. So let’s take let’s take it out of the logic tree a little bit further then. Okay. Okay. You’re right. Got to do something then. Let’s let’s say that’s something I feel like again I feel like not going to regress if they don’t do anything. So I feel like that’s my baseline. I feel like very slight upward trajectory if we do nothing. Soon as you make a trade that’s doing something, right? So you’re going to take something away. Let’s say it’s Mitch Keller. Say it’s Mitch Keller and they trade for another Spencer Horowitz type. I think that’s realistic. That’s a major league ready bat that has hit 15 home runs in the league. You know what I mean? I think that’s a a logical swing at a bat. And I you may not like to hear that. And I’m not saying that’s all you’d get for Mitch Keller, but I don’t think you’re going to get two or three major league hitters, right? So, I think you’re you’re talking about one major league ready hitter, unless you’re going to do a contract swap with somebody where you eat contract, they eat contract. You’re just flip-flopping the pain. You can, if you can find that, more power to you. But if you don’t do something like that, I can no longer guarantee what I said because now you’ve shaken the foundation of a lot of what I’m building that pitching staff on. Right now, I have no veteran leader. As much as I believe in Paul, I don’t know that he’s ready to be carrying 50 caterpillars behind him of baby birds with their mouths up and looking for information. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I think everybody gets stuck on the mint color thing because it’s the most obvious way to try to get something. Um, you know, ideally you’d be able to keep Mitch and their payroll. They they’ve been able to shed some payroll. Um, and you would just add whatever whatever it is you got, it was on offense. However much money you have that it’s goes to offense and you keep Mitch Keller. Ideally, that’s where I would like to go with it. I think where the Pirates Pirates always seem to never have the leverage, right? If they’re shopping Mitch Keller teams know why, right, that they want to a get a bat, b get the salary off the books. And I just feel like I wish if they’re going to be coming at it from that angle, then yeah, I’d keep them and just try to maybe shoot for something more realistic than the other way around, which would be not quite getting what you wanted from Mitch Keller because you feel like you have to get rid of him, right? And I feel like, man, what a message to to send to. I mean, it’s a message that they’ve sent repeatedly. But, you know, you you’re talking about you’ve extended three guys here and now you’re talking about trading the second of the three. Yeah. You know, like what does it mean when you sign here? Nothing. Why do we care about them getting extended at all? because in many cases they’re not even getting to the point where they would have reached free agency. You know what I mean? Like before before we’re like right away talking about trading them. So what kind of message does that send? Well, I think we all know that when anybody signs an extension with the Pirates, uh you won’t see the end of it with them in Pittsburgh. Um, you know, whether that’s Cutch, whether that is, you know, I I could foresee a situation where Brian Reynolds has a good season and they think about moving on from him, you know, like if if that like you wouldn’t do it now because you’re not going to get he did not have a good year. Um, but I think that’s just the reality for Pirate fans is is like even if you get an extension sign, they’re not planning on paying that full amount out. There’ll be a time when they’re going to move on from them anyway. And maybe many small market teams think that way. It may it’s probably not just the Pirates. Yeah, the issues are like haymakers today, my friend. We’re going to have to take another break and when we come back, let’s talk about the future of Andrew McCutchen, brother. I mean like I think we have to I think uh Jason Mackey’s comments make us have to and really the way Cut just acted kind of the second half of the season. I think it’s time to have this discussion. Huh? I do. At DK Pittsburgh Sports, we take pride in coverage that connects our city’s fans to their favorite teams. Now that connection’s stronger than ever. Introducing our allnew state-of-the-art app. Find expert inside reporting and original podcasts. Check live box scores. Track the latest stats. Chat it up with our community of thousands of fans all in one place. The new app from DK Pittsburgh Sports. Coverage that connects. [Music] Oh, welcome back to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. Jim, I feel like Andrew McCutchen thought that he was having a storybook finish to his career here in Pittsburgh and when he stuck his finger in the pie instead of a blackbird, it was something else brown and steamy. And I honest to God um have eloquent eloquent as always. I listen that will I I’m I feel confident that I’ve gotten around all the YouTube sensors with what I just said. All right. So So Andrew McCutchen, I just felt he’s kind of been a little more outspoken as the season’s played on. Before we get too deep into this, let me just start with this. The season is very very raw right now and Andrew McCutchen’s emotions are probably not in the best place to be making decisions. And I actually feel he’s intelligent, so intelligent that you’re probably just not going to hear him openly state anything he plans right this second. And I don’t think that anybody from the team’s going to say anything stupid either. Okay. as long as Travis Williams doesn’t doesn’t get interviewed. But but um I think it’s getting harder to justify having an Andrew McCutchen who his main really, Jim, is that he wants to play more. And I don’t think he produced like somebody that should play more. And I don’t want this to be an ugly divorce. Somebody has to be the bigger person here. Like Cut either needs to understand what he is now and accept that he’s he’s going to be an occasional fill-in DH, fillin outfielder, pinch hitter, you know, leader of the bench, wy veteran, advice giver, slightly gray bearded, you know, like ride out the train, get a few more stats. say say goodbye to everyone. It would be best for him. I think long term if that’s what he did going and chasing a World Series. I think the first thing that’s going to happen he’s going to get humbled when he goes out on the open market again and isn’t talking to I think he’s going to find most teams are going to offer him about 5 million. Yeah. and and let’s just go let’s just look at numbers first and foremost before we put emotions into this. Okay, this is a team that is starving for offense. Starving for it. Andrew McCutchen had 551 played appearances this year. It tied him for his low lowest OPS of his career at 700 and it was his lowest slugging of his career at 330 367, excuse me. So there’s a clear drop off that has happened like he’s had a 700 ops in two of the last four years, right? Um, I just think that like it’s probably time. The Pirates probably can’t afford the luxury anymore of Andrew McCutchen just simply on the fact that you’ve got to find somebody better that gives you those 551 played appearances. even if it’s marginal, they just they they need it in too many places and they probably can’t get it out of one or two one signing. So, you got to start making it up other areas, too. And God love, but he probably can’t play that much anymore. He’s kind of like a full D8, full-time DH. It restricts you rosterwise. I’m not sure how you get over 500 at bats and put up the numbers he did and Kutch is a smart guy, but to to come out of that thinking that the answer is for you to play more. I’m sorry. I just don’t think it is. You know what I mean? I think I think you’re looking at a really tough situation here and it always isn’t fun. But they’ve got to find a way to get Raphael Flores’s bat in this lineup and and mixed with potentially some kind of combination of second basesman and shortstop that you’re trying to work around. Ryan Reynolds needs off the field a little bit here and there to try to keep him more fresh. Jim, I just Yeah, I don’t know. Now, if if Cut was like pretty open about being cool with taking a reduced role or whatever, I I think I would be much more inclined to like have him be on the bench and like have that limited role. I I want him around for all the feels and all the reasons, right? But no team, no team is going to that is in World Series contention is bringing Andrew McCutchen in and giving him anywhere near 500 at bats. Yeah. It’s like if if he’s trying to pad numbers for the Hall of Fame, stay. If you’re trying to just end on a high note, stay. You know what I mean? Yeah. If you’re trying to win a World Series ring, okay, but accept a lesser role and go chase it. and and and even that lesser role of the pirates is kind of like is it worth hanging on to him for you know if he would have been somebody and look uh this is the teaching old dog new tricks um you know saying here but like if he would have been the the platoon answer at first base with Spencer Horowitz where he he could do that you know play against lefties and take some of that burden off of Spencer Horowitz with lefties and he could DH a little and he could play the field in a pinch like then I might start saying okay I can still see it but like if he’s just going to DH and these are the numbers at this point they just can’t they just can’t afford it and not afford it moneywise because it’s it’s not a big deal It’s just that they need to make up offense everywhere, right? They like it cuz it ain’t going to come from getting Kyle Tucker. You know what I mean? Like they’re not getting that. So like you better improve everywhere at least a little bit. I don’t think Cut is at that point. That’s why I wouldn’t mind him coming back again. It’s just he’s got to accept a different role. And and I I think my the moral of the story is for me, yeah, there’s a lot of talk going on right now, a lot of expectations being tossed around and a lot of conjecturing about what may or may not happen with him, but I don’t think that he’s started having the conversations that he believes are out there yet. And I think it may very well come to pass that cooler heads prevail and these sides come together and realize it’s really best for both of them if they just get together and understand what’s happening and everybody accepts this is it. You know, we’re going to give you a real soft landing. You’re not going to cut you. We promise. You know, if we could carry Alexander Canario all year, we can carry you all year. You know what I mean? Like I’m I’m trying not to be a dick about it, but like Well, tell them you got to play the outfield once a week and we’ll DH you once a week or something and then you have pinch hits and you know, I I just think there’s there’s ways to get around like this just being a breakup because I I really do think that reality is going to have a conversation with Andrew about what other teams are going to do with them. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s some there’s something to be said about how much he’s even interested in doing that because it sure seemed like he just wanted to kind of stay and he he he valued that being with his home with his family and things of that nature. So, I don’t even know if he’s he’s willing to do that. I think he spoke up a little bit lately and that probably doesn’t sit well. Um, let’s call a spade a spade. I don’t think he likes Ben Sharington. And I don’t blame him, you know. I cuz he hasn’t really been wanted here by this GM, frankly. Well, yeah, cuz it w it was totally around him to begin with. Yeah. So, I mean, like I I can understand there not being a good relationship there, but you know, he’s here for his relationship with Bob and clearly did not win this battle. You know what I mean? So, I I think there’s going to be a little bit of wound licking going on here and we’ll see. We’ll see if it if it gets straightened out. I would hate for it to end this way and and I would say even if he does go play somewhere else, it’s not as though we’re going to give him the cold shoulder when he comes back. I I mean, we’ve got fans on the daily talking about not watching this team anymore. I’m not going to hold it against some some Hall of like borderline Hall of Famer that wants to like go off and try to win a ring somewhere. But I just I I think the shame of it is is like if he doesn’t it it sounds like there might have been conversations that need to have been had. They weren’t had. They’ll wait till the off season. If there’s a parting then he’s just gone. like nobody got to like know that it was happening, right? Like when when like we enjoyed when he came back and if it’s just done and over with then nobody gets to say goodbye in the way that you would like to which is very piratey in in and of itself. Well, Cutch I mean like Cutch come back in in 2023 like the team like starts to look like they’re kind of on the upswing, right? And it looked like by now they’d probably be sniffing around if not in the playoffs. That’s really what it looked like the trajectory was in 2023. They put a little bit of effort and they went and got two first baseman that that had names and pedigree and had played and you know they they tried they they went and got decent pitching. I thought they did a pretty good job of putting a team together there and I think everybody including Kutch thought like well all right this is more like it there. Okay. Yeah. Well, he certainly talked that way, right? And everybody’s looking around like, “Well, hey, at least at least they addressed these holes. They’re actual Major League Baseball players they brought in. Okay, cool. We’ll see what happens here. I understand why they’re not these big names. We’re not We’re not there yet. We We all understood what was going on, right?” And then the next year they come back and and there’s like no effort. And then 2025, same thing. And and each time Kutch just signed. Yeah. Okay. Well, let’s do what we did again. Right. Right. All right. And he comes back and this is uh this isn’t even what we did last year, boys. You know, then he comes back this year. They spell his goddamn name wrong. Like like at Pirates Fest, you know, he’s signed on again. Whoop boy. They’re doing all the same stuff. We’re gonna do all this same great we told you about, right? And he’s kind of like even at Pirates Fest when you the people that talk to him, he was like, I don’t know, man. I’m just here to do, you know, whatever I can to help the team. And like, you know, that wasn’t what Cut was saying before. He was selling it. You could tell they lost the salesman because the pitch don’t work anymore. Yeah. Well, and that’s why I think you heard him say some of the things he said as the season closed out, right? which was like, “No, we need more.” I thought the ironic part of that was what if more means you not being here, you know. Um, but you know, Gut still has pride and he and he wants to win and he wants to contribute and I will not fault him for any of that. You know, this guy wants to go out on the right foot and and um still contribute. I just I I think maybe it’s run its course. Mackey seems to have think it might have. Um and I’ll I’ll you know give some credence to that. It just feels like that might be it. And it’ll be a shame if it just kind of fizzles out in the off season and that’s it. Yeah, I still kind of think there’s going to be a come to their their senses moment from both of them. Um but we’ll see. Uh, I I also I don’t know that I’ll fault the team all that much because I think like when I really really look at building the roster to the best of my ability, I probably don’t put on it unless I’m being sentimental, right? The funny thing is though, Jim, how can I say that? Because he really he was like the fourth best hitter on team this year. Yeah. on a curve, right? If you’re grading on a curve, um I just um cut a heck of a career. Um I’m just trying to play both sides of it because it sounds like we’re running him out of town or we’re at least okay with it. And I don’t want it to be that way. I would rather him either just decide on his own that’s enough. I should have just retired last year. You know, I should have told you this is what I was gonna do. Or come back with a lesser role. One or the other. That’s what it’s got to be. Yeah. I I don’t I hate telling guys when to hang it up. I think that’s like the most like um I I just don’t like telling guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. like you like pee play until you cannot play anymore. That’s your decision. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. I hate doing that. Just like Aaron Rogers is flirting now with like maybe coming back next year. Like I saw and you know, who are you to to tell him to do so? Yeah. Right. Like that’s that’s as personal of a decision for an athlete as you can possibly have, right? And so like far be it from me average guy telling you what to do. If you want to play still do it. Personally I would love to see Kutch. I thought that he should have wanted to be traded at the last couple deadlines. I would love to see him trying to go still get a ring. That’s why when I’m watching the Yankees game and I see David Benedar pitching, am I rooting for the Yankees? No. But I or Tyion today for the Cubs. He shoved for four innings. like right I I want that for guys that have been here and gone through some of the hell. And so that’s what I would prefer to do is find him a spot and a place where he can do all those little things we’re talking about where he’s not needed as much and not and and and let Pittsburgh do what they need to do at this point which is improve that position. And I think everybody wins there. Yeah, there’s just got to be conversations had. I would say the other thing, Jim, I mean, we’re obviously going to get into Ben Cherington staying as we get for I just kind of felt like everybody’s hashed it out enough about that this week. We all, I think, have made our feelings eminently clear about whether we wanted him back or whatever long ago. So, what am I going to do? Sit here and repeat those? You know what I mean? Like, I just don’t care to even engage in it right this second. I think it’s pretty clear. We’re all like, “Yeah, I And on top of it, Gary, what are you gonna do? He’s back. He’s back.” Like, just accept it. Like, the next thing for me though is now that I now that I know and now that we’ve like talked a little bit about like whether we should or shouldn’t make a big splash or anything, I guess my question is what is success? I mean, we’ve we’ve we’ve already decided that they’re behind, and I think that’s very very accurate. Let’s say they do make the playoffs next year. Well, they’re still behind because by like by like 20 Well, by like 2026, they were supposed to be like division winners. Do you see this turning into a division winner next year? I think an awful lot would have to go right. Like first of all, Kyle Tucker better get the piss out this division, you know, and like boy, the Reds better just absolutely pinch pennies and not do anything to improve this team in any way, shape, or form. And then we better hope for a couple Tommy Johns, too, out of out of their starting rotation. The the Brewers, they better quit having their devil magic that they stole from the Cardinals. The Cardinals can just continue to plummet for all I care. like the the Pirates moving into the top of this division. I’m I don’t see that next year. It’s a wild card you’re hunting. If you think this is a wild a playoff team, that ain’t success. It won’t feel like success. If what if if the Pirates got next year what the Reds got this year, this fan base will blow up almost worse than they did this year. Even with the news of Charington coming back. Well, boy, we need we need another hour because that’s a really interesting topic right there, right? Oh, maybe there’s a poll question in there somewhere. That’s a good one. Like, if the Pirates did what the Pirates do what the Reds did this year, is that enough? Is that cool? All right, I’m I’m putting that one. I’m bookmarking that one, Gary. I’m going to steal it. All right. Um, I guess, uh, anything else you wanted to touch on from this week, Jim? I mean, like I think we touched on all the drama. Travis Williams, silly comments, happy about Don Kelly. Anything else? Well, it’s funny. You know, so much has happened that you’re worried you missed something. And I don’t think we did. Um, I mean, the playoffs are going on. They’re actually interesting. I mean, like, it’s really been fun, actually. So, yeah, I think like the playoffs have been pretty compelling. The storylines have been have been compelling. Um, we’re we’re we’re getting now down to the point where I do think you’re going to start seeing the teams with kind of the stars. They’ll they’ll they’ll separate themselves and they’ll they’ll be the difference makers, which is, you know, um the Phillies, the Phillies are interesting this year, I think. And we get to see if the Brewers are for real or not, cuz this is a team that won 97 games. And me and you both aren’t real convinced that it’s it’s real. I’m not at all convinced. I I I truly don’t think they can. And I don’t like sitting around for a week at this stage. I know there’s a lot of bumps and bruises and I’m sure that helps some guys and and you get your full complement of pitching and everything, but you also get completely out of rhythm. And maybe maybe that’s actually good for Philly because they were kind of stumbling a little bit, stubbing their toe a few times toward down the stretch. So maybe the break there. But the Brewers are just one of those welloiled machines that I’m not 100% sure I’d want to stop if I lived up in Alaska. No, I can see where the Brewers are a team that would not want to stop, right? Like I think it all comes down to situationally, too. Like if you’ve got a bullpen that’s tired, probably good to get the rest. But if you’re a team that’s like kind of clicking and you’re hitting well, I think you don’t want to stop, right? Like you’d rather keep playing. And then it just comes down to now once we get past this series is, you know, what pitchers show up and and when they get two starts in a fivegame series if they dominate, boy, they’re going to be awfully tough to beat, which is why boy would it be great to get Paul skins in the playoffs so we could just maybe see what that looked like. Gary, something else I wanted to talk to you about. I remembered. Now, this is more of a a major league subject. All right. So, and you probably already saw this, but knowing you, there’s only seven players that finished over 300 in batting average. Only one in the National League. Yeah. And I just wanted to know what you thought about that. I mean, like, it’s been like the late 60s since since this. And last time this happened, they lowered the mound. So, like I I wouldn’t be shocked if baseball considered lowering the mound. And the only reason I say that is because I think they would have a hard time linking it to injury. And offense is awful leaguewide. It really is. It’s about as bad as it’s been. Well, since 2000 at least. the MLB batting average average was like 270 in 2000 and it’s now 245 or 243. [Music] The there’s no doubt that pitching has like that the technology has like far helped like the pitching side of things, right? we get into velocity and spin rates and pitch mix and like there’s so many things that have helped pitchers and nothing really on the offensive side has helped negate that. Well, except what Josh brings up, which is juicing the balls next year like they did in 2019. Yeah. And that helps the OPS, but I’m talking like just batting average in general. When is baseball going to get back to giving a crap about hitting the freaking baseball? Yeah. Putting the ball in play. Like these teams, Pirates or one of them, strike out 11, 12, 13 times, but that used to be like that was the headline when I was growing up. Like if your team strike out 10, 11 times, that was the the mast head of the freaking Sunday paper the next day. Like Bucks strike out 11 times and embarrassing defeat to now you strike out like 11 times. They don’t even mention it sometimes. Yeah. Well, I mean, you look at guys that come in like relievers and stuff and they’re like 54ks in three walks. I’m like in like 39 innings pitched. I’m like it’s gotten so crazy some of these guys and how dominant they are. So, do you think hitting’s harder than ever? And you’ve got all these guys throwing max max velocity with like four and five pitches in like Mason Miller the other day. I don’t know if you saw that 104 paint 104 like dotted on the corner outside corner for a righty. It was like who’s hitting that? I think he struck out like all six guys he faced in the playoffs, right? Yeah. You know, look at Chapman this year. Look at his numbers. Like, it’s just I do think they need to do something to help balance that the the advances pitchers have made. They did it in the 60s, you know, like when pitching just got so crazy good, no one was hitting. And I don’t like messing with the game too much. Um, but I think hitting has gotten incredibly hard. Now, I don’t think the approach has helped. I think the all or nothing swing speed, exit velocity has right compounded that. But I think it might be time to take a look at like doing something to help out cuz it can be a gross game some nights, Gary. We we’ve sat through those, right? Where like there’s like three balls put in play, one team has like two hits, the other one has four. They’ve struck out 21 times. That used to mean that used to mean something. It’s a very hard game to introduce to new viewers if nothing happens, you know, in the game that you can really talk about. If it’s all pitching and they’re just striking out over and over and over and over and over again, it’s very, very difficult to explain to people. And I’m talking about children. Like when you bring young kids to a ball game and like nothing happens offensively, it’s impossible to keep them in it for nine innings because there’s nothing to point to. As an adult, I can appreciate a whole game of being pitched like that, but you need offense for newbies and to attract new people to the game, right? And I don’t mean just home runs. I mean like action on the base pass. And people, they’ve tried a couple things, but fool’s gold, the base is bigger. They’re not throwing over that. I don’t want I don’t want to screw up pitching right now. That would be horrible for the Pirates. Like, but they’ve got to do something to to recapture. And this is after they took sticky stuff away for God’s sake. Yeah, they’ve tried to do some things, right? But I don’t know how you fix it, but it’s really it’s it’s not being coached to be honest. It’s coaching that the home run and the walk add up to being more important than the the average. But I just I just don’t believe that’s the way the game was intended to be played. I I think it’s it’s it’s an uglification of the sport and I I just want players to recognize it again and realize like that batting average matters. Yeah. I think you’ve seen the um baseball and the NBA. You’ve got like the Yeah, the NBA is all three-pointers. The the the nerd stuff in it is like they found a way to optimize the game, which wasn’t really the intention of it, but it works. Yeah. or it’s certainly a path to the same outcome, you know, and so they figured that out. And um I think they’ve thought of a lot of things in in these sports to keep it good and I don’t know, pure is not the word, but like exciting, but optimization has really really kind of affected those two sports. Totally right. Anyways, next week I’m traveling for work. Jim, I don’t think we’re going to be able to get together to do a show. Just going to be too difficult. So, we’re probably gonna have to skip a week, everybody. But, uh, we’ll come back bigger and better the next week. And I’m sure the Pirates won’t do anything interesting in that time period. Well, maybe they’ll give us an off week. you know, you know, hold that Kyle Tucker signing off, that Alex Bregman signing until we can get back on the air because I’d hate to miss that. Would you? Would you not, too? I mean, if you’re going to hand out, you know, a quarter, half a billion dollars in contracts, you know, don’t do it this week, pirates, right? Give us give us a freaking break, right? I’m so tired of all the signings and the good and the good news. Stop it. I mean, who knew it, Jim? But we could get tired of all the winning. We really could. I mean, being a Pirates fan, you’re just so blessed. You know, like you have the best management team in baseball. Everything they touch is gold. Yes. I mean, sometimes I feel silly asking questions, quite frankly. Well, yeah. I mean, leave it to the experts, dude. They’re clear. Listen, here’s here’s what everybody needs to to to we need to end on and everybody needs to rest easy. Travis Williams has got this. He’s got it. Full stop. Rest. Full stop. Period. Everybody rest easy. I’ll see you in Valhalla. I love it. Take it away, Ben. Let’s go, B. Yeah, buddy.

It’s been a busy week for the Pittsburgh Pirates. After concluding a terrible season, they made some decisions, so Jim Stamm and Gary Morgan have some thoughts. I’m not saying we’ll make sense of it, but we’re sure going to have fun trying!

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