Latest On Jason Robertson Contract, Stars Camp | Spits & Suds

Latest On Jason Robertson Contract, Stars Camp | Spits & Suds

Welcome to another edition of Spits and Suds. Oh my goodness, the regular season is just around the corner. I’m Gavin Spittle of 1053 the fan. And we will get to our weekly stars and NHL insider Sean Shapiro. So nice of him to join us. We have so much to talk about including what a great article that he and Robert Tiffen uh of stars thoughts.com combined for. It’s on Sean Substack. So, we’ll lead with that and uh some news from practice as well we’ll talk about. But first, I want to talk about the ontime experts. Weather’s beautiful out right now, so no problem. Maybe even the AC’s turned off and the heat’s not on right now. But that’s going to change and it’s going to change quick. And when that heat clicks on for the first time, you will have the assurance that it’s working properly if you go with my friends at the ontimeexperts.com and just just click on that book now button and get that tuneup and cleaning. And then you will have the satisfaction that it’s going to be fine in the winter, it’s going to be fine in the spring, probably going to be fine next summer. And if there are any problems on the horizon, they’re not going to oversell you. They’re just going to say, “Hey, keep an eye on that.” because they want you as a customer for life. I’ve had them at my house to work on my HVAC, had them at my house to work on my plumbing. Five stars all around. You’ll give them five stars as well. Plus, they’re supporting local hockey here in DFW as the official HVAC company of the Dallas Stars and now the official HVAC company of Spits and Suds. So check them out and please thank them for supporting spits and suds in local hockey. The ontimeexperts.com as mentioned the greatness of Sean Shapiro. Want to plug Shapshots. Wow. I mean talk about a great article that dropped. It was worth the subscription just for this article alone. I was riveted by it. So make sure you subscribe to Sean at Shapshots. He also partnered with another Spitz and Suds favorite, Stephen Merfve, for the book We Win here. Texas Stars training camp just starting some terrific stories about the Texas Stars and the Dallas Stars in Shan and Steven’s book. And Steven’s still doing a little bit of a book tour now and then book signing. So, make sure you pick up a copy of that book. It’s called We Win here. He also writes for D magazine. He’s all over the place. EP Ringside as well. How are you, Sean? I’m good, Gavin. I’m good. I’m uh it’s Friday night. It’s October. Um I’m going to go uh tonight I’m going to go watch uh Notre Dame play the USA under8 team uh down at USA Hockey Arena tonight. So watching some like college hockey hockey later tonight. So it’s it’s a good day and I’m happy to be chatting with you right now. Oh, that’s so Oh man, God, I love your like gems that you find as far as hockey. That is so cool. And where you live, there’s just so much hockey uh uh uh going on. Uh wanted to start the article that you wrote with Robert. Um two of my favorite writers obviously, and I love that you guys combined and you were doing a back and forth. And you’ve talked about the Carrill Capri off contract, but not necessarily why Minnesota had to do this on this program. Can you just go into this because you mentioned that first and foremost in the article. Yeah, I think that’s a big thing to import the Capri off thing where um is he a $17 million player the worth the highest contract in NHL history? I I I don’t know. That’s that’s not but it is that is what he is worth to Minnesota. And I think that’s what people kind of need to remember when they look at certain deals where if you’re Minnesota, he is the heartbeat of that team. He drives everything. Um you’ve lost superstars before. The Marian Gabri one is most is is the big example. And you’ve had other attempts at superstardom that haven’t worked well. And so the Wild could not afford to let Capriovv go. And so if he had wanted 18 or 19 million, the Wild probably would have had to give it to him. Um, and so I think that’s an important thing to remember when you look at the Capriov stuff. It is a different deal than most other players where if the Wild were to lose him, it would be a seismic uh loss where there’s other players and we’re about to talk about Jason Robertson where if the Stars lost Jason Robertson, it would probably be disappointing, but Miko Ranton’s still there, Wyatt Johnston’s still there, Robe H is still like it’s not the there’s not the uh cataclysmic possibility applies to other players the way it applies to Capriovv in the Minnesota situation. I also thought what you said about Robertson really is a perspective that we haven’t talked about and it kind of like opened up my eyes a little bit because maybe I’ve been too much into the numbers which I think is okay to a certain point. That’s part of our job. But also this is very interesting what you brought up and it made me take a step back. You said so I know a lot about Robertson. I feel like I have one of the better reads on the human side than most of the national media. I get really annoyed when people talk about him being a problem or difficult to deal with. He’s hockey obsessed in his own way. He’s not super vocal and he can be socially awkward, which I think many humans should be able to relate to, but we don’t necessarily want to see in our pro athletes. I think that’s where people get caught up in the big contract possibilities. boy. And then you go on to say, “If Robertson was a smooth, suave off ice persona like a young Tyler Sean, wouldn’t it just be accepted uh that he was worth at least 13 million or more?” And Sean, when you said that, I was like, “Wow, you nailed that because that is an interesting perspective because I think sometimes we relate big- time money to big- time personality.” Yeah. And I think as I as I wrote there and as you just read out like the perception of Jason Robertson is he’s a hockey nerd. It’s all he really cares about. And be and so that’s the type of thing where so often we want our athletes to be hyperfocused and and and everything like that. But if it it’s almost funny if Jason Robertson I don’t want to say cared less but if Jason Robertson was a little more less hockey nuanced we’d have less we’d have there would be it would be easy to be like oh yeah he’s a 14 15 million player and I compared him to when the stars got Sean like if he had a similar off ice personality to Sean where he was the great brand ambassador and he was the guy who just could handle could basically control a room when he walked instead Jason’s a little bit shy. He’s a little socially awkward. And a lot of us are like that, right? Like it’s the thing where I think a lot of people can relate to that. And um it’s funny. I compared it to I was listening to uh something the other day that was talking about uh I was listening to a a a thing the other day that was an interview not about hockey. It was a somebody was talk they were talking about the success of why Spider-Man is the most popular super superhero, right? Like why is like from commercial success and all of that stuff and it goes back to one of the reasons that amongst Marvel superheroes Spider-Man is the most popular connected superhero whatever is because he’s an awkward dude. Can’t get dates. He has he’s he’s a he’s a he’s he’s down on his luck in real life. He does he’s not rich. he wasn’t like he’s not like a god or anything like that and that type of person we connect to as as a human being. So I it’s funny to me where that doesn’t always apply to our athletes where Jason Robertson is more like you and I than we is more is very much like all of us and but we want our athletes to be oh this this persona this flamboyance or whatever you call it and instead he’s just very normal in a way, not in a bad way, just normal like many of us. And if that uh if if you put a different kind of skin on him, like a different veneer out the public veneer, I don’t think we’re having the like, oh, can you pay this guy 12 million? Like I think all of those things die if there’s a different outside perception there. Do you think the other perception regarding he’s not worth compared to a Capri off or others is because he clearly does everything well, but it’s not like when a McKinnon or a McDavid come over the boards, you know, the the lightning fast or the snapshot or the true skill set, you know, that you see and you’re like, oh my goodness, like that is just a gamecher. Even though Robertson in his own way is do you know do you understand what I’m saying? Like yeah it’s just not it’s not as flashy as some of the other elites in the game. Well, you know what he is and I’ve used this terminology before. He’s a uh he’s a socially awkward Bret Hole, Gavin. Yeah, it’s a good point. I was thinking Brett Hull. Like you know what, like obvious because so Robertson has the shot that like there’s no doubt like he’s 109 point player in his career. like he has the shot, it’s not there. He’s not He has the shot. It’s not like there’s no shot. Um yeah, he’s not the fastest. Um but the So there’s a lot about him that is you can watch him from shift to shift and get bored, right? But you could do the same thing for Brett Hull. You could watch Brett Hull for 15 of his for 18 of Bret Hull’s 19 shifts in a game. He could be really damn boring. But that 19th shift, that’s the one that changes the game. And I think that’s the thing about the Capriov Robertson thing where they kind of like they’re comparing the two. The the other thing about Robertson is I think there’s times where people try to paint and with contracts we try to deal with absolutes. And um I think he’s a classic example of getting pulled in too far of a framing on both when it comes to the eye test and analytic test, right? Like I think there’s a lot of times people will talk about, hey, Jason Robertson is a better defensive player. Like here’s these analytics and here’s these numbers on it. And I think those are true, but they’re not but he’s not as good of a defensive player as those paint him to be. He’s also not nearly as bad as a defensive player as some of the old school um mentalities look at him and like, oh, he’s not like, no, he he is a better defensive player. So he’s the truth about him often lies somewhere in the middle. And when we kind of think about all that and we think about value and we think about what what a player is worth, I think Jason Robertson in a way the lack of the lack of outside noise, the lack of other things to kind of do the framing and everything. um make it make it so we try to create other not I’m using the royal wei here Gavin because like that’s why I get really frustrated I’ll be like oh he’s difficult to deal with or this or that like I hear that from some national media storylines it’s the lack of the the big personality that stops that. So it’s he he is a fascinating player and I think he should be I I think too often people try to boil it down to the black and white with him. Yeah. from cuz you talk about this a little bit you and Robert from the just purely cap perspective though what are your thoughts on because clearly you can make you can do it with Robertson Harley and you’d have Ranton but as far as like capstrapped future that certainly is something that continues to kind of fester in my mind because I do want some freedom as far as to address needs and I would hate to be in a situation where it’s like, “No, we signed our guys, so we’re rolling with what we have. A lot of success with what they’ve had, but the inability to get over the mountain, so to speak.” Well, and here’s the thing, like I don’t think no matter what the Robertson deal is, like I think it’s it’s probably fits in 2627 to an extent, right? like um now Thomas Harley’s number is going to get really big, but there’s uh there’s definitely you you can make it work. Um, I I guess the question for me where this comes down to and I it’s the are you going to be able to if Thomas Harley really goes off, right? Yes. And and that’s where it is like if Thomas Harley is a like Jackson Loma got $9 million. That’s what exactly another one on the board and another one that I’m like Thomas Harley continues to get more expensive if Thomas Harley is a $12 million player which is not unconceivable which is not inconceivable. If Thomas Har if they’re gonna go longterm with Harley and he’s gonna be that $12 million player, like I look at the cap picture for 2627 and you’re like, um, yes, I see where are we going to fit the where are you going to fit to make that work, right? Like that’s the that is a like cuz right now I see this like right now Puckedia has the stars for 27 million in cap space right now for 2627 right like that’s the based off deals signed already. So if you go and sign if Thomas Harley is a $12 million player that leaves about 15 million for just Jason Robertson. um with seven other players that still need contracts, too. And that doesn’t include a are you going to try to roll back another season of Jamie Ben and and all of that stuff and what about Maverick Bour’s next deal and everything. It’s it’s the I think that’s the everyone looks at the Caprioff thing and where does this mean for Robertson’s deal and all that, but I think two we often need to stop and think about when it comes to roster construction. It might be Thomas Harley that pushes him out and it’s not anything else. Great article, Sean. I mean, listen, all your work is great, but seriously, you teaming up with Robert, that was uh that was that was terrific. I was reading through it. I I don’t know why. I mean, I’m just going to take a step back for a second. I mean, as someone who runs a radio station, it’s very similar to not that I don’t like a solo talk host, but like for instance, this Spits and Suds program, I don’t think anyone listening would be like, you know what, Gavin, I like when you do these solo shows. I think it’s better when you have a conversation like you and I are having right now. So I I do think it was just a nice curveball to see both you and Robert going back and forth. So it was interesting and I I think it’s good to have I want to be clear on something, right? Like I the whole back and forth piece I like doing those. It’s not so important for me that I do those with people whose opinion I value, right? Um people who I want to to push me and everything like that. And that’s one of the reasons I really enjoy doing those with Robert where um he can tell me, “Hey, you’re wrong.” He can or I can tell him that and then we can have a civil back and forth about it. And I think that’s a a big key thing in in kind of that format that I I think goes a long way. Yeah, it it it certainly does. Okay, some news that I wanted to talk about coming from Robert Tiffen of stars.com. He asked Glenn Gulletson the question about Mo Rantin regarding the power play and for some perspective as far as Rantin playing on both power play units. Now we’re going to play the cut. Um so we’ll play the cut right here and then uh Robert also said he said it’ll depend on the situation. If they’ve hemmed them in for a while then yeah it’s an option but if he’s had to go down and back a couple of times probably not. and Robert’s gonna do a full write up on that on starsthoughts.com. But here’s Robert asking the question and Gully’s answer. We’ve also seen Mo stay out there for for both both units here here and there. We saw last year a little bit too, but is that an option? Is he the sort of player where you would look at doing that pretty regularly during the season? Yep. Yeah, we are. Um and then the other part of that is just where you are in the power play, right? If you had to go up and back two or three times to get it and or you’re tired, you’re watching it, he’s coming off. would be great. But, uh, if we’ve had them hemmed in there for a minute and, you know, he’s sat in that spot he likes to sit in and he’s had a couple good looks and hasn’t burned up a lot of jet fuel and we’re going to keep him out there. So, um, that’s just part of those mixing. So, it’s like two units, but it’s almost two and a half units and that the ability to move Harles and Heiskin into each unit uh, would would give us some other looks. So, all that stuff’s being played with. And Sean, I wanted to get your thoughts on Mo Ratin playing. I mean, the other day he did full two minutes on one power play and didn’t look like he was tired at all. So, him playing, you know, um, for a full two minutes. Yeah, I I don’t have any issue with it. I mean, Alex Ovetkin plays the full two minutes of power play for Washington. Well, if he comes off, it’s similar to the reason that Golson spoke about where did he go up and back and things like that. And so I I think so often it’s it’s it’s such a pre-season thing, Gavin, for us to get caught up in right now. It’s like, oh man, play like he’s going to play both power play. It’s that’s a fine concept and thing to be like, I I am going to worry about that right now. But next season, we will be about three days into the start of the next year. This time next year, we’ll be at three days into the start of the season, right? we will then be able to uh not have we’ll only have four preseason games to worry about this because it’s it’s interesting and it’s good to know that’s how you’re using your top players, but it’s also how you should be using your top players. If you’re taking if you’re a $12 million player, you’re a top five winger on the planet. You should be playing both in the power play. I think that’s I don’t think that’s a crazy thing. And so that’s where I kind of fall on it. I think it’s a funny thing where people kind of get a So, but isn’t two minutes of Miko Ranton better than two minutes of Miko Ranton is better than a minute of a lot of other players. So, yeah. Uh, back to Harley for just one second because I was just looking at top free agents. I’m sure there are some restricteds out there as well, but now that we’ve seen a couple of defensemen come in, is there anyone else or that you can think of or is this the time now in your opinion that Jim Nil tries to get it done? Because I agree with you as this thing continues, I have a feeling odds are it’s going to become more expensive. Even if he got injured to me, like he’s proved his value already. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, I mean I would if I’m if I’m the stars, I push for it. If I’m if I’m Harley’s camp, though, I wait for that Olympic boost, right? Like that’s I get So I think that’s the uh that’s kind of where I go on that. Um I will say, can I can I throw out one other thing? Absolutely. Search your podcast, too. that the stars should potentially look into. Um the I don’t know if you could make it work because the Stars only have right now the Stars are tight to the cap and and everything like that, right? Um they have about I think they have about 1.1 million in cap space right now. Um, would you call Jack Rosavic right now? That’s very interesting. Yeah, just thinking about just thinking talking about a 22 goal scorer last season, play the center or the wing with Jamie Ben’s injury. Um, I look at this Stars lineup and this isn’t to this isn’t to to rip on anyone else’s performance or anything like that, but I go through and I look down I look along the wings and I between like I know between Oscar Beck, Nathan Bastion, Colin Blackwell, uh you’ve got Radic Foxa, you you’ve got good amount forwards on this team that aren’t going to put the puck in the net with regularity, right? That’s just we can call it what it is. Correct. Um, and you got a 22 goal scorer out there. We’ve heard that maybe he declined an offer from Edmonton and so maybe he wouldn’t even want to come to Dallas and and everything like that. But would you if if you’re Jim Nil and you’ve got a really good team and wouldn’t you make that call? I would make a lot of calls right now. I really I really would. I mean I mean obviously he’s doing that but yeah, you know I I guess the other one that someone asked about the other day was Lucas Reichel um the the youngster uh from Chicago that’s been up and down uh and he does play left wing. I just don’t know. I mean what are you going to have to give up because this was a former first round pick. So there has to be some currency in exchange. It’s not like they’re going to accept a seventh. Um, but he’s kind of struggled when he’s been up in Chicago. Mhm. That’s he’s an interesting one. He’s also one that would require you to give something to get something. Exactly. Correct. Yes. Yes. Ross Levik one to me is it’s cap space and you’d have to look at things and like right now you’re at 1.1 million roughly in cap space and so if you do that I’m assuming you’re going to you make another uh you have to make another a different lineup decision and and and everything like that that works out but it’s I I think it’s worth a call. So yeah. Yeah. I don’t I I’m totally with you especially when you look like you’re right. Absolutely. 39 points last year, 81 games. So, there’s some durability there, too. Um, yeah. So, it’s uh that is that is an interesting one and that’s why we love having you on the program, sir. Um, that is a very very interesting one. Uh, how expensive do you think it would be? I mean, we know he made 2.8 million last year. We’ve heard that he turned something down from Edmonton this summer. So, we don’t know for sure what that would cost, but if you’re do a little bit of cap juggling and look at your space and could you find something for one? I mean, he doesn’t have a job yet, right? So, does it hurt to call and offer 1.5, right? Like, is that going to be um like here’s the thing. Like I think Oscar Beck is a like has Oscar Beck done enough in your mind, Gavin, to say, “Hey, it’s not worth upgrading him for a 22 goal scorer in the NHL.” I don’t want to say it’s a mistake because they didn’t Beck’s not costing that much, but at the same time, I need to see more out of Oscar Beck. Exactly. Right. Like or the same thing goes with like like I mean you’re not gonna like a Colin Blackwell, right? Like and it’s one of those where it’s just like if Colin Blackwell at league minimum gets p pushed to your 13th forward, is that really a problem? Because there’s only scoring goals in the NHL is not easy. And you got a guy who’s was supposed to be part of that offense probably in a higher spot than he should have been this year in Jamie Ben who’s going to miss the first month of the season. So where why why aren’t you I see no reason not to make that call. So yeah. Yeah. Uh all right. So, the Amazon Hockey Series faceoff inside the NHL debuts tomorrow. Uh, got some uh news and we’re going to have uh our Spits and Suds friend Carol ShraMM from the Hockey News and she spoke to them. We’ll have her on on Monday. Um, but just wanted to touch on this Sean. It’s kind of unfortunate. Um, after announcing in May that Mo Ranton, Wyatt Johnson, and Thomas Harley of the Stars would be featured in season 2, only Ranton survived the editing process. He seemed primarily after his January trade from the Avalanche to the Carolina Hurricanes. They said, “These stories tend to really come together in the end. We have an idea of what we’re trying to tell, the best characters to facilitate that, but sometimes you get into the edit and characters that you think are going to work together in episodes just don’t. So, unfortunately, the editing room floor is going to uh feature a couple of Dallas stars, Wyatt Johnson and Thomas Harley, which is kind of a shame for Stars fans. Yeah, it is. It’s uh it is. And it’s uh I don’t know, Gavin, we live in the ultimate content age of things. Like I know they’re on the editing room for but maybe we can hope that something comes out later in a deleted scene stuff or something like but like it’s also the whole I wonder from Thomas Harley and Wyatt Johnston. I wonder if they’re like Thomas Harley has a very self-deprecating form of humor, right? He’s very uh he has some good quips. Him and Wyatt Johnston have very similar personalities. I actually find them semi-entertaining individuals. I wonder how entertaining they are to to build out. One of the difficulties of building out a docu series and that people need to remember is uh you need to be able to connect it to everyone. Right. Right. And so do are you able to connect Thomas Harley and Wyatt Johnson to a viewer in a threeminute intro? Yeah. That’s that doesn’t care about the Dallas Stars at all. This is not a Dallas Star show. It’s an NHLwide show. I don’t know if you are. And that’s a great question to figure out. So, I think people will look at it and think like, “Oh my god, they’re they’re limiting what the stars the stars viewership on something or whatever.” I also have to from the creative standpoint, I think we also need to sometimes stop and remember that we want the best story told. We want good content. We don’t always want just everything thrown at us, right? And I think too many times we do have some of these like widpread documentaries now that could use a little more editing to be to choose my words carefully. Yeah. Yeah. And just for perspective because I know Harley and clearly Jason Robertson are the big stories. It’s not just like this is happening here. We have Jack Eel. We have Conor McDavid. And this news from uh Daily Faceoff uh David Pegnota. The Kings spoke again with Adrien Kemp’s camp the other day. No progress as as of today on an extension. The season begins in four days. Both sides now comfortable starting a year without a deal. So very interesting because that’s a nice part for the LA Kings. Adrien Kempe. Yep. I I don’t it was so fascinating because I was Sean as soon as I read that u I like had to rush to see the numbers and I’m like okay how does that compare to Jason Robertson and that reminded me that sometimes we undervalue Jason Robertson because there’s no comparison between Kempe and Jason Robertson. Jason Robertson is far as far as statistical much better player 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, Sean. We got a week till games real games were great. I know. It’s uh it’s it’s very exciting and uh Sean, your years of covering hockey. I’ve told Spits and Suds listeners not to panic, but I think you’d agree these first three games not easy tilts at Winnipeg, at Colorado, home in a late game against Minnesota. So, don’t hit the panic button, right Sean? No, but also embrace the fun, right? Like, embrace it. So, yeah. Well, thank you, man. I really appreciate it. Once again, what a great article. Everyone needs to subscribe to your Substack, which is shapshots to uh read about that great article and uh more. Sean does a lot of national stuff as well, so uh you can check him out on EP Ringside. Also writes for D magazine. Terrific job, man. Great insight today. Hey, kudos on the article and we’ll catch up with you soon. Yeah, Gavin, always fun to do this. Let’s do it again soon. Absolutely. That’s going to do it for another episode of Spits and Suds. Can’t wait to you to talk to you tomorrow night after the final preseason game. And thanks to the ontime experts as well. For producer Gregory Finley, I’m Gavin Spittle. Until our next podcast, have a great day, everyone. [Music]

Spits and Suds Stars and NHL Insider Sean Shapiro joins host Gavin Spittle for his weekly visit. Sean teamed up with another Spits and Suds favorite Robert Tiffin for a great article on the contract status of Jason Robertson after the signing of Kirill Kaprizov in Minnesota. Sean explains the difference on why the Wild needed to sign Kaprizov compared to Robertson’s situation with the Stars. Sean also talks about Robertson’s personality and that he shouldn’t be judged on that. Sean also mentions that he’s a classic example of too much analytics and too much eye test to judge him. The guys give the latest on Thomas Harley and discuss how the Stars should press for a deal because the price continues to go up especially since he might receive the “Olympic bump”. Stars head coach Glen Gulutzan mentions at today’s practice that Mikko Rantanen might play the entire power play. Sean and Gavin play Gully’s thoughts and give their opinion. Plus, two Stars get edited out of the new Amazon hockey series Faceoff, Inside the NHL, another NHL player stalls on a new deal and more on this jam packed edition of Spits and Suds with Sean Shapiro.

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