What did Kevin O’Connell say about JJ McCarthy’s return to practice?

What did Kevin O’Connell say about JJ McCarthy’s return to practice?

[Music] Regulator mount up. We’re coming. [Music] Hey everybody. Everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by FanDuel. Matthew Coller here as always. And later on this evening, Brian Murphy and Manny Hill will be joining for our Monday night roundt. We went out to TCO Performance Center today and had a discussion with Kevin O’Connell. A lot said about where JJ McCarthy is at, what he did last week when the rest of the team was on the by-week, but JJ McCarthy was at TCO Performance Center still working and Okonnell went into detail about what that work entailed. So, we’re going to bring you all of that, plus some other injury updates. We had a chance to chat with Donovan Jackson as well along with uh Blake Cashman. Both of them seem like they are on their way back. Not sure if either one will play this week, but promising that they are both back at practice. And then something that I wasn’t really sure if we would see was Brian O’Neal was also warming up today uh as well at practice. And you know, with the MCL’s injury, always a difficult timeline there. That that injury could be pretty nasty. So, him at least participating in some way uh was good news toward him getting back at right tackle. and then Andrew Van Ginkle working on the side. So, there was a lot to take in there at TCO Performance Center. But, I’ll start the show by getting right into what Kevin Oonnell had to say about JJ McCarthy and then let’s talk about it. I know a lot of you probably watching Monday Night Football double header. So, watch the game in between plays, questions, comments, thoughts, and your feelings on what O’Connell had to say today about JJ McCarthy. So, we’ll just start out with this. Okonnell was asked about what he saw from McCarthy last week when they were working out uh together inside the facility uh presumably with not not a lot of the team, but at least uh doing some work with Kevin Oonnell. The coaching staff was still there during the by-week. So, this is what Okonnell had to say about his work with McCarthy. What did you see from JJ last week during his time with the buy and then like where do you think you’re at this practice week started? Yeah, we had some good work uh last week. It was uh it was great to get back on the grass and and had uh you know some good sessions out there kind of getting back to uh a lot of the principles of of lower body mechanics and and things that uh had had you know been really good parts of his early journey here. um and and didn’t even hit me till we were out there. He had practiced one time since we had left Chicago. He had practiced one time uh officially. So, a lot of a lot of the things you’re, you know, allowing him to get his health back and uh get his feet back underneath him, but then building that foundation of fundamentals and techniques that really you can talk about routes and certain throws and certain plays and things like that, but it’s the foundation of throwing mechanics from the ground up that um you know, he’s really taken to since he since he got here. and just the consistency of it. Uh whether it was dealing through playing through that injury, you know, towards the second half of that Atlanta game or and and really you’re not talking about um an incredible amount of body of work when you’re considering that when that injury happened in the week that he had leading into that game. So, I’m very excited to get him back officially practicing. Um, I don’t necessarily want to p put a percentage on where I think he’s at health-wise and I think we’ll, you know, this this week will be um, massive for our whole team. So there is Okonnell talking about last week and it was a theme for Okonnell to focus on the fundamentals in technique which I know is a little bit vague but he also continued to talk later about the footwork element and how important that is for JJ McCarthy to have right. and he kind of repeated something he said last Monday about the decision-making of Carson Wentz and how he hopes that McCarthy has been able to see from Carson Wentz and take away that sometimes it’s not the first read, it’s just a a quick checkown, but getting through those progressions quickly. So, it sounds like what they’ve kind of done after that Atlanta game is wanting to get back to almost, and I say this, like this is just trying to feel out with the comments. It’s not something he said, but read between the lines a little. Get back to almost mini camp mode because all the stuff that he’s talking about, it sounds like what KC would have been talking about in mini camp back in the spring of the footwork and it has to start there and getting through the reads and progressions. That’s not usually stuff that you discuss during the middle of the season where a quarterback is coming back from an injury. Normally, you would just be talking about, well, we’re getting him back and, you know, he’s back in the lineup and we’re gonna play him and so forth. And I think that that shows you a couple of things about Okonnell’s mentality with this. Number one, I didn’t walk away from today saying, “Wow, lock dead guarantee they are starting JJ McCarthy.” I don’t know if they will, and it might depend on what they see throughout this week in practice. But I definitely didn’t think, oh yeah, it sounds like they’re good to go. He’s all set. It it still sounds like what he sees behind the scenes is going to make a big difference with McCarthy, but I think it also shows the attention to detail with Kevin Oonnell in general that he needs to see this stuff and he’s got this list, this checklist of different techniques, fundamentals, footwork, all that stuff that sort of sounds like coach speak but also is extremely true. and McCarthy has to get them down. And I felt like this off season, he did a better and better and better job as training camp went along of getting that stuff down. And in the first game against Chicago, as bad as it looked through the first three quarters, there were plenty of times where he did make the right decision or he did get the ball out quickly or he did decide to scramble at the right time. And then we go to the Atlanta week and Okonnell has mentioned it numerous times now about him missing that practice which I mean you can read into that however you want. I think it’s just a a statement of reality that coming off of a Monday night game and then not being able to practice in a short week, he feels really impacted McCarthy and then now he doesn’t get to go back on the field and play Cincinnati and get locked back in to the timing and all that sort of stuff. Uh kind of a a get-right type of game that it would have been for McCarthy because of the injury. So, he’s decided to bring it down to the brass tax and say, “All right, let’s let’s get back to these most simplistic things about this offense and about what you’re doing as a quarterback.” Because when you play without your left tackle and you play under pressure and you play against a team like Atlanta that threw a lot of different looks at them, it can throw off all of that stuff. And I felt like even just as a thrower, McCarthy had gone back to some of the habits that he had early in his time and even in college against Atlanta. And I I think that that’s what KOC is kind of getting at here is let’s have a reminder session of getting those things down. So he was asked directly, of course, whether uh McCarthy had a chance to start on Sunday, and here’s what Okonnell said. Do you view him as a possibility for Sunday’s game or is it more of a longer term thing like you’re talking about with the fundamentals? Yeah, I think you know uh we’ve got to prepare to to try to win a game on Sunday and and Carson, you know, as as well working with, you know, his left shoulder. He’ll practice as well. Um, but we really want to get our team ready to go. And in the process of doing that, JJ is, you know, has his his plan of attack that that we want to try to make sure we maximize every single day. and prepare all of our guys to be ready to go and and make the best decision for our team and then also for uh for individually for each one of those guys as we get closer to it. But not ready to say yet exactly um where he’ll be at towards the end of the week. Want to see how this week plays out first. That makes sense to me that Okonnell would want to see all of practice and then decide. And there are only so many minutes in the day where you get to practice. But at the same time, like these coaches go back through every second of the tape when it comes to practice and they go back and look at it and they analyze it and even if it is a small sample and you don’t want to be having a quarterback competition, I think what you’re looking for is just does it look like it’s supposed to look from a technical standpoint. Is he making the right reads when he’s taking his reps? Because you know that Carson Wentz can have some limitations on his reps and still be fine and still go out there and give them a chance to win. It’s not going to change a whole lot. The guy’s won two out of three games despite not being on the team until a month and a half ago. So, he’s not going to fall off the face of the earth if he splits some reps with McCarthy. But with McCarthy, they have to be able to use a small sample size over a couple of practices in a couple days to be able to say, does he look like he’s ready to go? And I think that if the answer is even close to yes, that they should be ready to start McCarthy. And then I I also think and this just doesn’t happen anymore. It’s kind of odd that it doesn’t happen anymore because you watch Justin Fields the other day and you go, is there no a law against benching quarterbacks? Because maybe it would be too devastating for JJ McCarthy to start play poorly in the first half and then bring in Carson Wentz if he’s struggling. But it does make a lot of sense, right? I mean, we really have learned through this that as much as training camp is telling in a lot of situations, it doesn’t always give us all the answers to how somebody is going to look when they’re out there. And I think practice is the same way that there’s plenty of players throughout history that have practiced and looked really good and looked locked in and then they get out there and the speed is just different and the violence is just different. And so maybe you could have that as a plan of if he looks like he isn’t locked in early on, you could make the change and go to Wentz. But I don’t think you want that from a standpoint of the drama that goes along with that. If you throw McCarthy out there and then have to bring in Wentz halfway through the game due to performance, you know, that’s going to be a huge talking point. you know that it’s going to be crushing to McCarthy that it’s going to look from the rest of the team at KOC like do we know what we’re doing exactly here? So he probably has to be like in a in an in a logical world in a not NFL the whole world is insane. That would make sense like put him out there see how he looks. If you don’t like it pull him back. It doesn’t it doesn’t work in an illogical NFL. So, what you have to be if you’re Okonnell is 100% that you feel fully confident in the way McCarthy has looked in practice in order for him to start this week. And the decision is going to tell us how far along he was able to come this week. If he was able to prove that to KOC, then he will be starting. And if he wasn’t, then he won’t. And we’ll go over what those scenarios mean. But I wanted to bring you one more of his answers where he was asked like when he’s going to make the decision or if you have to make the decision pretty early or if you can bring it right up to game time and and then decide on your starting quarterback. Here’s what he said. Kevin, would you ever be comfortable taking a decision on a quarterback status like up to game time or is because of that position, do you kind of need to know by end of the week just for continuity sake? Yeah, I think yeah, I think there’s um I think there’s uh the decision that is the public one and I think there’s the decision one with what we’re going to do for the game. Um and and those two things can be on different timelines, although I know that’s not the most comforting thing to to share with you guys, but um there is a there is a feel of uh you know, making sure that we’re preparing the quarterback position for the game. um knowing that we’ve we’ve won games with two different guys this year and um we’ve we’ve found a a rhythm at times on offense that as much as that quarterback plays a huge role in it, um we’ve got to make sure our offense is prepared to play with that true all 111 mindset, we’ve got to prepare that position just like the rest of our team where it’s principles of playing good football that I think can be our separator and and and then we allow the health and kind the readiness factor to to help drive that decision later on in the week. So, the end of that answer sounded to me like when he says health and readiness factor, so is the ankle responding well to a full week of practice. And when he says readiness factor, I take that as if he looks ready to me then he’s going to play and if he doesn’t then he won’t. Which black and white, do you look good enough in practice or not? That’s a good way to make the decision. And I wanted to play one more because this comes up all the time, what uh Brady said here in the comments about JJ having the bad offensive line and all that sort of stuff and all the excuses that a lot of people wanted to make for the game against Atlanta because Okonnell did kind of touch on that and I think I think I got the right clip here. I’m sorry if I don’t. Uh but he did kind of touch on like that’s life in the NFL. And what you’ve heard from Okonnell is zero excuses for JJ McCarthy. So I think that the spin from a lot of fans of, hey, it wasn’t his fault. Everything was going wrong. Tell me where you’ve heard Okonnell do that because Okonnell is the first one often to step out in front when something goes wrong and say, “Hey, we got to make sure we got the right context or this uh was a reason or that was a reason for something happening.” And he hasn’t really done that at all with JJ McCarthy. In fact, his conversation with us has been much more along the lines of the technique, the fundamentals, the timing, the progressions, the decisions h all have to improve. So, I’m just not really going to give a free pass for the performance against Atlanta when the head coach has had every opportunity to do that and has not at any point. It’s not always fair based upon how things are around them or the adversity around them from a uh you know standpoint of some of the injuries that have hit us and and that’s just part of why the position is so difficult. Um but the beauty of the the work last week was you know this is purely just about let’s just work on um the technique and fundamentals and break it down to a place where we can really take tangible wow that felt different that felt great or that’s how you know that’s why we coach it like that and you know pretty soon he’s he’s throwing the ball great and he’s got a smile on his face and you’re stacking reps upon reps that that will matter as now he gets to transition to actual real reps on the practice field. Um, and and having the extra day here to get a little head start will be great and then we’ll work through it from there. So, there you go. Uh, working in practice on those things, getting that footwork locked back in. And sounded like that was going okay. I mean, I guess it should when there’s no defenders out there. But the beginning of that clip from Kevin Okonnell and he said it’s not always fair. Baker Mayfield won a game with his wide receiver four, five, and six in the game. And if you’re saying, “Well, Baker’s a veteran, right? But who are you competing against? What’s your goals here?” If your goals are to win games and to compete for the NFC North, then we can’t have every single time somebody is out of a lineup being like, “Well, too bad. Can’t win. Just can’t be done. Sorry.” Uh, that’s not how it works. because Carson Wentz was able to uh win a game where he had four backup offensive linemen. Look around the league. I mean, San Francisco has half of their entire roster out. A lot of people have injuries. A lot of people have shortcomings. Drake May doesn’t have a very good offensive line. Won a game yesterday and has had a couple good games uh strung together. And yes, it would have impacted McCarthy more because he is a younger player. Clearly, it did. But there is every chance there for O’Connell to say, “Hey guys, you’re being too hard on JJ, you’ve got to understand he didn’t have his tackle or whatever.” And he’s never said that. So, I think that the analysis of McCarthy’s first two games is that the head coach felt like he did not see enough of the baseline stuff from McCarthy to succeed and then took this week to work directly with him to try to get that stuff back on track. Now, you can also say at the same time that one game where he lost track of his fundamentals and wasn’t getting through his reads and was extremely slow getting out the football and made a ton of mistakes does not end his career. And if he gets back on track this week and starts against Philadelphia, well, they just lost to Bo Knicks and they lost to Jackson Dart and McCarthy has a chance to have the light come on. he needs more football in order for us to really get a sense for it. But I I think that we can put to rest all of the excuses that were made uh for the Atlanta game and pretty clearly say that it wasn’t good enough. And you didn’t need a great quarterback play to win that game, by the way. But we just don’t have to relitigate that game time and time again when this is how Okonnell has talked about it. I also think that this right here, that discussion is why you hire Kevin Oonnell. That he spends the by-week identifying what the issues were and getting in the building and working directly with JJ McCarthy trying to fix them to the best of his ability. And with some quarterbacks you can and some quarterbacks you can’t, but needing more reps and more breakdown of the exact things that he was having go wrong against Atlanta. And as he said, like having a a smile on his face, getting the technique back together, but you only get that if you have your head coach working with him. So, he’s going to get the best that you can get for coaching. and then when he does come back, if it is against Philadelphia, then he will have his tackle, he will have his receiver, and we’ll get a better sense of where this can go. Uh, but I also wanted to add before I get to your questions and comments that we don’t have to make, and I know a lot of people will, but you don’t have to do this. You don’t have to engage. If he doesn’t start against Atlanta, I’m sorry, not Atlanta, Philadelphia. If he does not start against Philadelphia, it’s not over. Okay? It’s not the end of his career. JJ isn’t cooked. He’s not finished. KOC hasn’t given up on him. The organization isn’t bailing. I’m sure that if it’s Wentz that starts the game, that will be a lot of the conversation, and it’s just not. What it will mean is that he thinks this is going to take more time. And that he is not just ready to play one game. He’s got to be ready to play two games in four days. And if he doesn’t feel like he’s ready to play two games in four days, that’s okay. That doesn’t have to mean call it folks. It’s over. Good night JJ McCarthy dream. And and put that to an end. Let’s start looking for the next franchise QB. It doesn’t have to be that way. And I don’t think that um Okonnell is going to rush him out there if he doesn’t feel like he can get those things down because you’re just setting him up to fail if that’s the case. And it hits me hard every single weekend that I watch football is how many of these guys had pasts where their coaches were changed or the their teams gave up on them or they had a bad game or two and it seemed like it all devolved and collapsed from there. I don’t think that uh Kevin Oonnell is going to let that happen with JJ McCarthy. So uh questions, thoughts, feelings on what Kevin Oonnell had to say? Buddy, the dog is playing next to me if you’re hearing that. Uh, and uh, let me get you the FanDuel question of the day here as well, which is, uh, the Tampa Bay Bucks and Indianapolis Colts are, uh, top five teams most likely to make the playoffs on FanDuel. Who would have ever seen that coming that the Bucks and the Colts would have been in the top five at minus400 for the Bucks and minus 520 for the Colts. both in the top five most favored teams to make the playoffs on FanDuel. Give me your biggest surprise team, good or bad, the team that has totally shocked you for the results through the first six weeks of the season. That is the FanDuel question of the day. Your biggest shock to me, it would probably be the the Colts. I mean, I remember when the Vikings got Daniel Jones, I said, “Look at this guy’s performance recently. He had gone three and 13 with I more interceptions than touchdowns. And I said, “What what’s the point of getting Daniel Jones? The guy has been so bad that he just can’t play and he’s more of a backup and move on, right? There’s no reason to have him.” And yet he’s come out with Indianapolis and led them to the top of their division and they’re a very very strong uh overall football team. Didn’t see that coming. That would probably be mine, but uh interested in yours as well. So, uh, let me rewind here and get, uh, your comments, your thoughts about this situation. And then, uh, also there’s a few other things that I do want to touch on. Uh, let me just get to that real quick. Zidarius Smith just retired. He just he played a few games. He played against the Giants the other day and then just decided he retired. This is the best break the Vikings have gotten all year. is Zadarius Smith is a Viking murderer. So much to the point they had to get him get him away from the rest of the teams and he was great in the year that he was a Minnesota Viking. Unbelievable Green Bay Packer. Uh he he crushed them in the game last year against Detroit in week 18. Zidarius was phenomenal. If there if you get you should have waited one more week, my goo my dude. One more week, Zidarius. and uh you probably would have got three or four more sacks on the resume, he’s just been unreal against them. And now when you look at Philadelphia when they do have Jaylen Carter, assuming that he’s going to be back and healthy, but when you look at Philadelphia and then compare where they were last year, their defensive line that dominated the Super Bowl now minus Zarius Smith, who actually was playing well for them, had like a 79 PFF grade, it still created a good number of pressures. They are very short on the Dline and they are also potentially going to be short Quinan Mitchell. We’ll see if Quinan Mitchell ends up playing or not. We don’t get a injury report officially. I think they don’t have to put one out till Wednesday. So, we’ll start to get a sense for the health situation, but if they are questionable with Jaylen Carter down Quinan Mitchell, uh their secondary has been pretty brutal and now very short along with pass rushers in the outside linebacker position. then uh the Vikings might be looking at a lot less pressure than we would have thought when this game came out on the schedule now that Zidarius has just up and retired. In fact, I’m curious about last week with the Giants how often Jackson Dart had time to throw. I’m going to check that right now. Jackson Dart now, he was under pressure 40% of the time. So, they still were able to create pressure. He did a great job under pressure. They still were able to create some pressure. So that was that was crazy that he just kind of decided and that’s kind of my experience covering Zedarius was you just he didn’t talk to us a lot when he did uh he could be very interesting and he’s a little I don’t want to I don’t want to use the word aloof but just maybe a guy that you don’t always know what he’s thinking and he just I plays against the Giants decides you know what I I do want I mean it all it goes through your mind is this a sign of what’s going on in Philadelphia that Zidarius wouldn’t want to stick it out. Maybe wasn’t enjoying that locker room. I don’t know. Uh they seem like they’re a little on edge at this point. But kind of crazy for a guy to just show up on Monday and be like, you know, I’m good. I’ve had a great career. I’m playing well, but I just don’t want to play here anymore. I don’t I don’t want to work here anymore. I’m out. So, the best to him. Insanely good football player. He probably is not a Hall of Fame level player, but he would fall in the hall of very very good to me and maybe hall of most underrated players as you know history has a ton of guys who are sack artists with X number of sacks that gets them in the Hall of Fame. His numbers are good with sacks. It’s not enough to reach that sort of Jared Allen type level, but he was more of an overall impact type of guy cuz he could play inside linebacker. He was a movearound guy like we tal about. Van Ginkle, so powerful, so strong, so technically proficient, just a man, an amazing player. It was awesome to watch him play up close for 17 games in uh 2022. And uh one other thing to mention just when it comes to I thought there’s a tiein here. So Brian Callahan got fired. Obviously, I could have told you that after they played the Vikings. I always think that I can evaluate an opposing team’s coach with how they play against the Vikings because, you know, the Vikings set a baseline. Some of you will say, “Oh, KC can’t co look, we know that KOC and Brian Flores are top coaches.” That are they the best coaches in the entire NFL? Well, they’re going to have to prove that with playoff wins and so forth that some other guys have. But I think we could say that easily in the the top second tier of guys that don’t necessarily have Shawn McVeyy’s resume or Andy Reid’s resume right there. Right. So if your team just gets out coached and run completely out of the building, I’m going to assume your coach is bad and that he’s going to get fired soon. When the Vikings play the Titans, that’s how I felt. I felt like Brian Callahan just had no chance and and his roster is bad and there’s lots of excuses. But when your roster is bad and you never win any games and you’re melting down all the time at the podium, I it just it’s pretty clear you’re not even squeezing enough out of it to look like a competent team. Uh so an unfortunate hire there and situation, but here’s what the tiein is and about KOC and his handling of JJ McCarthy. Everybody wants to see the young quarterback always in forever. Every single fan base, every single ownership, probably every player and and you see so much hype and inside the building and everybody, everyone wants the young guy to play. And yet, I saw this today that the last four number one overall picks, their coaches got fired that year. I mean, maybe there’s something to this quarterback development thing, huh? maybe the obsession with the rookie quarterback contract, and I know that’s been me, but I mean, uh, in terms of building timelines and everything else, that it forces these guys out too soon. And you still want to hit in that window. Trust me, no one believes that more than I do, that you want to hit your roster peaking with the young quarterback. But I think that there’s so much to this rush, rush, rush because of the rookie contract that a lot of teams have put guys out there before they’re ready to go and then they’re not good and then their coach gets fired and then five years later they’re succeeding with the Tampa Bay Bucks instead of the team that drafted them at the top. So, there’s been a lot of that in recent years, and I think that that’s kind it’s a little bit of a lesson of patience at the quarterback position that I’m going to keep pounding that table even if uh nobody actually wants that. So, all right. Now, I uh I did promise to start getting to your questions and comments in about a half an hour. Then, uh, we’re going to get Manny Hill and Brian Murphy with their thoughts and also their answers to the FanDuel question of the day, which is the, uh, team that is the most shocking or surprising to you, good or bad, uh, with their results so far this year? Uh, okay. Let’s see. Guitar person says, “Time for KC to step up on play calling to help out the rookie.” A lot like the Broncos did with Bo Knicks. I mean, Bonix uh is in a a bit of a different spot. Also didn’t hasn’t played well this year. Uh I know what you’re saying. Like they believed that there was no way the Jets were ever going to score, so they just said don’t screw up. But they scored 13 points. I’m not sure we can really look at that and say great stuff. I mean, maybe you mean last year easing him in to uh things, but it has always felt like Shawn Peyton is terrified that Bo Knicks is going to make mistakes, which is not how KOC coaches. There is a balance here. There is a balance because if you only throw short passes and then the occasional prayer, you end up like Joe Flacco yesterday. Like Joe Flacco, hey, they need more short short passes. Okay, well, you can average five yards per attempt in doing that. you need to be able to have a balance offensively. I do think that there wasn’t enough clear schematic stuff to get the ball into the hands of JJ uh uh Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison that we did see in the last couple games, especially against Cleveland. The play that stood out to me the most was lining up Jefferson in the back field, but there was also another really nice little slant that uh Jefferson ran, caught it, got eight or nine yards. Stuff like that is clearly just schemed up. Get the ball, get it out of your hands. You’re probably not getting 20 yards, but maybe you get you break a tackle and you get a first down. You’re just looking to make sure the football is in the hands of Addison and Jefferson, but there’s only so much of that you can do. There’s only so many quick outs that get five or six yards. You’ve got to run the offense. You have, it’s been called a Ferrari. That’s what you have now with Addison back. You have Addison and Jefferson, two of the best receivers in the league. Naylor can catch the ball. Hawinson is prolific at times in his career underneath. Everything shouldn’t have to be all schemed up little short dinks and dunks because otherwise the defense is going to know that and they’re not going to let you get away with it. So, the other thing is too that McCarthy didn’t execute that stuff at all. They called it. They called it and he ran it and I’ve read the numbers before and it wasn’t on time. And when we compare Carson Wentz, the throws under 10 yards, Wentz is getting them out in two seconds. McCarthy wasn’t even getting them out in three when he threw under 10 yards. So, it’s also on the quarterback to be able to execute that stuff. So, while I agree and while I praised Okonnell a lot for what he did against Cleveland, uh we cannot say, “Oh, well, just just throw short all the time. It’ll be fine.” Uh, okay. Well, that’s not really what’s going to win you games. Like, sometimes you have to take the profit and just get those yards, get a check down, get a break tackle or whatever, but you got to be able to run the plays down the field. 15 20 yard throws to Justin Jefferson or this thing doesn’t work the way it needs to work to actually win. So that is a balance that he has to have I think. Uh let’s see. Yeah, I mean uh Bo Nicks threw for 175 yards on on 30 attempts. That’s not good. Like that’s that’s actually really bad. So you’re going to not win very many. I guarantee you if you looked up how many times quarterbacks won a game where they threw for 175 yards on 30 attempts, the answer would be very very low. Uh not not very many times that you’re going to win a game like that. So, uh all right, let me I’ve got I’ve gotten a tad behind. Sorry about that. Um let’s see. Actually, that was that’s funny. Oh, anyway. Uh, Adam says, “Uh, worst thing that happened to this franchise in the last five years is Josh Dobs winning meaningless games.” Yeah, I mean, I brought that up last night after watching Drake May. There’s a reason why KC wanted to trade for May and they weren’t able to do it. Uh, because in part they won those games and also a three nothing win against the Las Vegas Raiders. I was told at the time by a lot of folks that, you know, tanking is the worst thing in the entire world, but that might have changed the fate a little bit. You can’t go back in time though, and it goes for everything. And I like to review the history as much as anybody else. But when we look at this whole situation, where you’re at right now and trying to go back in time and look at it, we don’t have enough information on JJ McCarthy to really say that stuff. Because right now, at this second, you could say, “Well, it’s too bad they don’t have Rogers. It’s too bad they don’t have Darnold. Well, too bad they don’t have Daniel Jones. Too bad they didn’t tank then. Too bad they didn’t get Jaden Daniels. Too bad they didn’t get Drake May. Too bad. Too bad. Too bad. Too bad. In fact, the Vikings had a chance to get Baker Mayfield a couple years ago and he was available. The Panthers traded what? Like nothing for Baker Mayfield. And the Vikings had Justin Jefferson then and maybe they would be the Tampa Bay Bucks right now. So, you can do it with a lot of different things, right? But we just don’t know where JJ McCarthy is going to end up. And if all those decisions from the past are going to be uh haunting them or not. If Sam Darnold wins the Super Bowl, then yeah, you can definitely look back and go, you know what? You should have probably done kept Sam Darnold. Although I I will say that man is playing awesome football. Their offensive line isn’t that good and he’s making some throws. He’s doing the Sam Darnold stuff. It wasn’t a fluke. It wasn’t a fraud. It wasn’t a joke. Is he the best quarterback in the league? No. And do I think the Vikings minus several players would have had a real shot at the Super Bowl with him? Can’t quite get there at the moment. But Sam Darnold’s playing really good football, but we just don’t have anything to compare it to. Aaron Rogers is playing fine football. Their division is an absolute joke, which is shocking. That’s the most shocking thing for the FanDuel question of the day. Their division is an absolute joke. They’re gonna win it by default because all the other teams are just bumbling over themselves. But still, uh, we don’t have anything to compare Rogers to other than two games, one win, one loss. One game where McCarthy plays well on national TV enough to win in the fourth quarter and has some great moments and another game where it’s not good and that’s it. Well, we can’t really go back in time and, you know, figure out, hey, uh, you know, is he is it a better choice to do this or that because we we don’t know yet. We don’t have enough to say. So, I mean, I get where you’re going with and I’ve had that thought and I probably said that a little bit last night after watching uh Drake May play. I think it’s no question about why Kevin Oonnell wanted to draft Drake May. He saw all that stuff and it was pretty evident that May had all the physical talent to be a superstar. So, um, Michael says KOC should put JJ in the game and soft bench went. So, well, it’s not a soft benching when he’s the backup quarterback. That’s not really how that works. Uh, let’s see. Uh Brady says, “Uh, sick of of every single Vikings reporter making this a thing. Oh, scary. Do you start him against the Eagles?” Okay, the schedule looks hard. Where do you start him? You know, I think that’s a a fair point. And the Eagles don’t look as scary right now. I think that the issue would be uh starting him in back-to-back games. If he wasn’t ready on a short week before, then is he going to be ready on a short week now? And I generally overall agree with your point that if you try to wait until the perfect time, excuse me, the perfect time to start him against the perfect team in the the perfect scenario. Well, there really isn’t one. Uh it would have been Hey, Cincinnati had he stayed healthy would have been the best place because Cincinnati is just terrible from start to finish. Uh from offensive line to defense to secondary to pass rush to quarterback, like they’re just awful. That would have been a great get-right game for JJ McCarthy had he remained healthy through the Atlanta game. Uh but you can’t go back in time with that either. And all the opponents coming up are going to be difficult, but they’re not impossible. Uh the Chargers defense, it’s flawed. The Eagles defense is banged up. It’s not what it was last year. The Lions defense is banged up. Baltimore’s defense has been horrible so far this year. Chicago is nothing special. these are the opponents that are coming up. You have to just decide if he’s really ready. The decision should not be made on who you’re playing because Philadelphia’s defense just allowed Jackson Dart to be awesome. He threw for what 195 yards on almost eight yards per attempt. Had an 89.7 PFF grade, 68% completion percentage. He he was really good and he’s a young quarterback and he’s just figuring it out. So, it’s not it’s not the Eagles for me. For me, it’s not the opponent. For me, it’s entirely do you think that he is ready to do this in terms of the most baseline stuff of the offense? And I think by now we’ve seen enough KOC offense to know exactly what he’s talking about. I mean, the the Kirk Cousins special was that out route to Justin Jefferson and then we saw Wentz do it last week where drops back, hits the back foot, the ball comes out way before the break, he goes into the break, bang, makes the catch, and it’s an easy 12 yards or an easy eight yards where you can get that to him or Addison anytime you want if you do it right. Like the interception is a a good example against Atlanta. If you go back to that one in your head, that’s an out route that he throws too late and the defender just has a chance to close and then make a play on it and it’s not the most accurate ball or thrown into the right spot either. Those are the types of plays that Okonnell is talking about. So, it has to depend for me on when they look at the practice tape, how is the timing of those routes. the decision makingaking is a little bit harder because you can’t hit them in practice. But in terms of those types of plays that are the ones we see time and time and time again in this offense, and that also might be seeing when Jefferson is going on a post and reading a safety, and this happens all the time. They’ll have two deep safeties, Jefferson’s going on a post over the middle, and if one safety leans one way, then you’re throwing it. And if he leans the other way, then you’re checking it. And and that’s the type of stuff that has to happen lightning fast. So, can he do that stuff? It’s not It’s not to me, who are you playing? Um because Philadelphia is okay, but they’re not incredible. They’re just okay. Uh I assume it’s Ryan Ryn. I think the offense is 10 points better and a whole two seconds faster. With Wentz, uh it is about a about It just speaks to football. It’s about 3/4 of a second faster when you look at the snap to release. Uh but that’s a lot when you think about like one misses like that’s that’s some time. Uh and and that’s how fast everything works in the NFL. And yeah, they have been better in terms of their production. But I also don’t believe that Carson Wentz has played so well. If this was the way, just for example, if there if this is a different world, like imagine a world where instead of Carson Wentz, it was Sam Darnold and he played like he did last year against Houston, San Francisco, Green Bay, the beginning of the season, and he played like that off the bench and it was a guy who was fairly young or just getting to his prime and it was a top draft pick and he had a huge arm and he just set the world on higher, then I would be saying, “Look guys, don’t worry about whether that he was drafted 10th overall. That’s that’s kind of sunk cost. Like, just roll with this guy and see where it takes you.” But that’s not Carson Wentz. Carson Wentz is a veteran backup quarterback who has some limitations, including uh trying to make plays out of structure that he can’t make anymore. uh trying to be a playmaker and taking sacks and taking hits and and making some mistakes throwing the football because he’s trying to do a little too much. Um the accuracy has not been super great for Wentz. It’s really just been a uh as good as you can get for a backup quarterback. So they are better at the moment when we compare his three games versus his two games. That’s not much to work with. And I don’t think it gets better with Wentz where it can absolutely get way better with JJ McCarthy as you go along. So, uh, let’s see. Mr. Mayor says, “The vent diagram of Kirk Cousins and people who keep throwing out excuses over and over for JJ McCarthy in his two games is a circle.” Uh, yeah. You know, I don’t know about that. I mean, I I get what you’re you’re saying because it does sound a lot like every time Kirk would lose a game, it would be the right guard’s fault, even if he wasn’t getting rid of the ball or even if his athletic ability was limited and that cost them or just those disappearing act Kirk games that were frustrating through the years. uh as many as there were great games, by the way. There there were ones that you just didn’t understand what happened. Why uh why why was that, you know, ball thrown in a certain direction that was picked off? Why was there the strip sack? Why didn’t they start succeeding as an offense till they’re down 20 points? Um but yeah, you’re right. That often came from a lot of fans with, well, it was somebody else’s fault. It’s Zimmer. It’s the guards. It’s whatever. So, it does it has the same ring to it, but I think the context is very different where Kirk had his fans and those people had stuck the stake in the ground day one and decided Kirk’s great and he’s going to take us where he’s going to go and they never moved off that. And that’s fine. I mean, there’s major media personalities that do the same thing, so you might as well. But when it comes to McCarthy, this to me is much more wide of the entire fan base, the entire state of Minnesota and all uh folks who have moved out of the state long ago that followed the purple since 1961. All of those people are following JJ McCarthy and wanting it to work because everybody knows no matter where you jumped on as a Vikings fan, if you jumped on in 1961, if you jumped on in 1989, if you jumped on in in 1999 or 2004 or 2012 or no matter where you went, you would have said, “Man, that thing they’re still searching for is a franchise quarterback.” And the only people who got to see it was those folks from the the 60s, but they didn’t really get to see it until Fran Tarson left and then came back and was so great and went to the Super Bowls. So even they the the early people would have been saying like, “Oh, you know, Fran’s not good enough. Where’s the next guy, Gary Quazo or whatever.” I mean, just right. So, at many times in this team’s uh history, even the earliest days, and then there was a section where Fran’s the guy and he’s one of the goats. And then past that, you’re still looking for that true franchise quarterback. Touchdown Tommy at one point looks like he’s that. Dante Co Pepper is that for a few minutes. Teddy is that for a few minutes, but they’ve never locked into it. So when you have an opportunity with a top 10 drafted quarterback, everybody is leaning into the screen and wanting to see him and wanting him to succeed. And when it doesn’t go well, also wanting to say, “No, no, it’s fine. It’s still fine. It’s okay.” Uh there’s a uh a Great Simpsons bit. This goes back way too far. There’s a great Simpsons bit where Homer is barbecuing and Lisa pushes the pig down the hill and Homer says, “It’s just a little dirty. It’s okay. It’s okay.” And then it goes in the water. It’s just a little wet. It’s okay. That’s kind of how it’s felt uh over the last few weeks. But I I don’t want to say that this has gone any direction yet so far. It’s gone no direction. There’s been a little bit of good, there’s been too much bad, and then there’s been an injury. incomplete grade through the by-week. Very much incomplete grade through the by-week. So, I get but I get why people would have that feeling and would have that uh reaction to any criticism of JJ McCarthy in his game against Atlanta. But when you listen to the uh head coach of the football team, didn’t hear a whole lot of excuses or even explanations that oh, it was this or it was that. He’s essentially just come out and said it. The fundamentals were not there to win that football game. And there were way too many simple baseline type of mistakes that were the cause of him not being able to win that game. So, uh, or at least perform at a level that would have given them a chance. And it happens. And now it’s Okonnell’s job and it’s McCarthy’s job to get that back to a spot where he can get in and he can win. And the first step is for McCarthy to go out there and practice. Look, it’s Carson Wentz. It’s not Josh Allen that you have to beat out in practice this week. It’s Carson Wentz. Go beat out Carson Wentz. It shouldn’t be that high of a bar. You know the offense way better than Carson Wentz does over the last couple of years. Everyone wants you to be the the starter. They want you to succeed. Go out and do it. And at some point, you just have to instead of well, they didn’t call the right plays. They didn’t block this right. Whatever it It’s on him. It’s on him. He’s had a long time to learn the offense and he had all summer to be QB1 and he didn’t perform that great in the first two games, but now it’s on him to prove to Okonnell, to prove to Jefferson, to prove to Addison, to Hawinson, to everybody on this team that came here to win that he’s ready to do it. And if he’s not, then they stick with Carson Wentz and then we go from there. But there’s just there’s a lot of like, oh, it’s not his fault. It’s okay. It’s okay. Well, at some point it’s the NFL and if he can’t do it, then he can’t start. And there, like O’ Con said today, I mean, first and foremost, you have to win a football game. I there’s so much of the attention on, hey, can McCarthy get his feet in the right spots? But they’re three and two. And look at the NFC. It’s very mid across the board, including the Philadelphia Eagles. It’s just very me. The Packers, did they impress you yesterday? Didn’t really impress me. They were okay. The Lions played a good team and for the second time this year, the Lions played a good team and lost. They have four wins against bad teams and one win against a good team or and no wins against good teams. So, is that who Detroit is? That’s not that mind-blowing. They’ve got half their team hurt. So, I like they have to they have to make the decision of who’s going to be able to win. And uh if McCarthy isn’t that guy, then they’re going to have to go with Wentz and he’s going to have to prove it at some point. So whether you you know make excuses for him or not, like that’s the reality. Uh Zoomer says, uh Zoomer Kev, are the Eagles actually imploding? That would be so great. We’re going to find out. The only hesitation for me is on whether they’re imploding is that last year at one point there seemed to be a major beef between AJ Brown and uh Jaylen Herz and then all of a sudden there wasn’t. Then all all of a sudden they got it together and they clicked and they went and won the Super Bowl. So we can’t totally dismiss the idea that those two and this offense can work it out. Uh Jaylen Herz has not been fantastic so far. Also, they’re in the pressure cooker to where being 4-2 and having just okay results is getting destroyed where most teams at 4-2 and looking at the performances of the quarterback and receivers and defense and everything would be like, “Oh, we’re pretty good.” But if you’re the Eagles and you’ve won the Super Bowl, your standard is higher than that. Uh I could see though, here’s what you really want, and I don’t know why this clicked into my brain. There was a game many years ago with Gus Farerat starting against Jeff Garcia. The 49ers came to Minnesota and Gus Farerat played amazing. I think it was Nate Burlson’s first touchdown ever. Gus played incredibly well just throwing bombs and at one point Terrell Owens totally loses it on the sideline. Just melts down. I was watching this game, I don’t know, a couple years ago and he just freaks out on the sideline. Like if you can get AJ Brown to that point, then you have won the game. If if you can get AJ Brown to the point of having a meltdown, then you will win this football game. And that’s what what the Vikings need to do is they need to take advantage of where Philadelphia is at with their drama because it’s teetering. It’s that’s how I see them. They’re not fully off the cliff yet, but they’re teetering on that drama. So, if you can get them down early, get them frustrated by a few three and outs, then you could see a pretty early sideline Gatorade bottle throw or something from AJ Brown. But this is how things go in the NFL where one year you win the Super Bowl and you’re unbelievable and the next year, I mean, they got eliminated from the playoffs by Tampa Bay uh the year after they went to the Super Bowl last time. It’s really hard to do it time and time again and I think we see that um all the time. Uh, Michael says, “How long are you willing to wait on JJ? Jefferson and Darasaw will be 30 by his fifth year and we rank 25th in age.” Yeah, that’s a good point. That’s a It’s a really great question is how long? And I think what history would tell us is that if this year I it almost seems impossible that he wouldn’t play again this year, right? Like they want this to happen. you heard Okonnell say like about getting him back out there performance and health like is he good to go but if we get to the end of this year and still feel like there isn’t even hints one way or the other so just for example Atlanta’s playing tonight and I don’t think any of us really knows about Michael Penn and whether he’s a franchise quarterback or not but Michael Penn sold Atlanta on being that guy last year when he got in the game and it wasn’t a huge sample size But he showed their coaching staff and performed at a level that they thought, “Okay, we believe in this guy. We could trade a first round pick for a pass rusher. We can go all in around this guy. We we buy in.” You need to be at that point by the end of the year where at least you feel like, yeah, okay, maybe it’s small sample or maybe we’re just talking about a hot streak at the end or something like that. But you need to have confidence that he can be that guy next year because a lot of the checks are already written for this roster and there isn’t a ton else you can do. And if they don’t at least have that feeling and it’s it’s a know it when you see it thing. I think we’ll all be able to know it when we see it. When you guys watch even Drake May when they were losing last year, you had to be like, “Okay, if they get anybody around this guy, he’s going to be pretty darn good.” And you also know when somebody doesn’t sell you. I mean, you’ve seen Justin Fields play in Chicago. Was any Viking fan surprised? You’ve seen that game from Justin Fields? You probably knew just like me after about three times of seeing Justin Fields. Like, this guy can’t play. He This guy can’t be an NFL starting quarterback. We need to see McCarthy enough to at least have that that general vibe and sense. And I even go back to, you know, my dad growing, he’s in Buffalo. I grew up in Buffalo for most of you. You already know that. And so he was watching early Josh Allen and Josh Allen was struggling statistically and they were losing some games and everything, but he was telling me people really believe it in this like they’re like what he’s flashing just like Drake May last year like what he’s flashing it’s going somewhere. And so I always feel like we should all know at once. If if you’re fighting about it, it tells you the answer, doesn’t it? Like if if the whole fan base is arguing every single day whether is he good, is he not good? Well, you already know the answer then. That’s that’s the Kirk thing. Like you already know the answer that it’s probably not good enough if everybody’s fighting about it every single day because I went back uh two years ago to to Buffalo and I went to every grocery store had Josh Allen everywhere in it. It’s like these these people don’t argue about the quarterback. I promise you that. So, it’s that will take time. By the end of the year, you at least need those hints. You need that vibe. You need that feeling about McCarthy in order to feel good about going forward. If you do not have it, then you’re looking at quarterbacks and you’re talking about who else you’re going to bring in to compete with him. And it becomes like a Brock Pery and Trey Lance situation or Daniel Jones and Anthony Richardson. kind of becomes like that and that’s how fast it happens. Anthony Richardson is in year three. That’s how quick it can happen. Uh if they don’t believe in what they’re seeing. So they’re going to have to figure it out fairly quickly uh whether at least there’s reason to go forward. And I know I’ve said hey patience and there’s a lot of evidence that patience is good. And I I’m not going to change my mind on that. That patience overall is better for young quarterbacks. but hints, a feeling, a sense. Was a corner turned? Did he get back in and win some really cool games and start to show you something? And then I still think there’s a high end of this where it goes really well in the second half of the season. And then you start to see the first round 10th overall draft pick. It’s just so hard when you haven’t been able to get him actually on the field and playing to assess anything. Uh, Zoomer Kev, Colts were dead last in fan optimism before the season started uh at 7% lower than the Saints. That’s interesting. Now they look like an AFC contender. Yeah, that the Colts are the most shocking for me. That’s the FanDuel question of the day that the Colts are now minus 520 to make the playoffs. So, so very much favored uh to make the playoffs. Never would have seen that coming. I thought that would have been a team competing for the first overall pick. Uh Blowfishes says the game is faster than college and it’s natural for young quarterbacks to adapt. No, that’s I mean that’s the thing, right? Is that McCarthy having so little experience playing at this speed, it is not shocking that there’s an adjustment period. And that’s why he needs to show Okonnell that he can get these these most simple things about playing the position right because it does move so fast and if you don’t have those right you are just completely screwed. I mean if you don’t have the the most simple things uh then you are totally and wholly out of luck uh at adjusting to the speed. But if you do, at least you can get to a point where you’re completing the the open passes and where you’re throwing with anticipation on the core concepts of the offense, which we know work really well. Um, so those are things that uh he has to improve on and then you can adjust on the fly to some of the speed. I mean, I didn’t I didn’t think that the game was too fast for him in the in the first week with his decision- making. It was really when he got sped up by getting hit. I mean, that’s what that is where the great quarterbacks are separated and where you have to learn is like you’re going to get hit. Jay says, “Come on, Matthew. I do not want JJ to start. He sucked in the first two games.” Well, there’s no debate about um the performance in my mind and what it said in the first two games, but it also like think about what you just said like two games. They went one and one. One of them was bad. One of them was pretty good in the second half. And in the final score, they end up winning the game. His final box score wasn’t bad. Is that enough? That’s enough for you to say, “Hey, that’s that’s enough.” I mean, I I know people have been saying the same things about McCarthy forever and Adam bringing back Mick handoffs, which is, you know, I I that’s very clever of you and congratulations on that. But, um, I’m sure you’ve told many of your friends that, but no one really knows what he’s going to be able to do when he gets back in until we see him actually do it. So, there’s folks that are super confident on either side of it, but I don’t think we really can be until we start until we actually see him get back. So, you know, there are some of you who want to see Carson Wentz. That kind of surprises me that some of you actually want to see Carson Wentz play for the rest of the season going forward because McCarthy’s performance scared you so much. But I think that that is the vast vast minority. Uh the extreme majority of Vikings fans want to see him back in the game and want to see where this is going to take them. Uh but I would just suggest that if Okonnell doesn’t feel comfortable with that that we give him more time. And if we get to the middle of the season and they’re middling or they’re starting to fall behind, then then there’s a much better argument for, yeah, just throw him out there, see what he can do. Um, but at this moment, they have to do what’s best to win and not just what’s best for JJ McCarthy to get experience. I don’t think we’re quite there yet. It is a a dicey situation for Kevin Oonnell. Uh, even just making this decision is going to have to be on a handful of practices and what we’ve seen from McCarthy this week. But I did not come away with a clear answer thinking, “All right, I’ve got it. I think he’s gonna start McCarthy.” It seemed to me like, “Show me, kid. Just show me.” Uh, reminder, got some good answers there on the FanDuel question of the day that the Tampa Bay Bucks and Indianapolis Colts are both top five teams favored to make the playoffs on FanDuel at minus14 and minus 520. Both of those teams are pretty big surprises through six weeks. Who is your biggest surprise team, good or bad? So, uh, as always on Monday night, we have our roundt and, uh, if you give me a moment to get, uh, Brian Murphy and Manny Hill in here, but, uh, one of my favorite things every single week is, uh, talking with these guys on the show. So, I’ll let you answer that question as I load up Ma uh, Manny and Murf here into the show. All right. I believe I have Murf there. What’s going on, Murf? How we doing? Happy by week. Happy post by week. Doing great. How did you uh spend your bye-week? I got a little golf in. Um, a lot of housework. Um, a lot of I I’m glad I didn’t h I know there was a game yesterday morning. I didn’t have to watch it. Oh my gosh. I slept in a little bit. And then uh I feel like um I don’t know. I thought this a week five, week six buy usually doesn’t look good on the schedule, but considering what the fan base, the team, the media is all I just feel like it was perfectly timed. Absolutely. Manny, do we have you now? I believe so. You have me. Okay, we got you. That’s great. We’re like three weeks in a row of this working as well as I need it to work uh in order to have this here round table. So, uh Manny, it’s like a it’s like a baton pass. It’s uh it’s it’s really funny because you know Okonnell was asked about uh what he saw from watching games. So just like he got to be like us. I’m sure he was maybe taking some more notes than I was, but at least uh he, you know, got to sit back and and watch the football without the intensity like all of us. And he said, you know, it just really stands out to him how every game is close and every game comes down to the last play and that sort of stuff. And I almost yelled out, it stood out to me that the game stunk. It was not a good day, Manny. It was not not in this market. Not a good day. Yeah, Cincinnati Green Bay really. And I have red zone, but I mean even red even like the Tampa Bay and San Francisco game wasn’t great. And I would say the second half of Kansas City, Detroit wasn’t even that good. Ravens Rams was bad and kind of sloppy and nasty. And I mean, obviously Broncos, Jets, that was a great appetizer to start the day. 13 to1. Yeah. Yuck. Um, yeah, it was it was a it was kind of a gross day. And and it didn’t help that it was the Vikings by week, so you didn’t have you didn’t have the Vikings game to kind of lean on and say like, okay, well, maybe this, you know, the Vikings always typically play close, exciting games with nice finishes. But, um, yeah, yesterday was disgusting. So, let’s get uh back into the discussion about what Kevin Oonnell had to say. Uh last week, he really focused on wanting to get McCarthy back on the practice field, wanting to get him going back to square one with a lot of different stuff. Uh he really went into detail about the footwork and the decision-m and the progressions, and he kind of said, “Hey, there’s five out there for a reason.” Uh, and I thought that that was really a bit sharp of a comment reflecting back to his first two performances, like clearly indicating that he missed a lot of opportunities out on the field. But, uh, Murf, how do you think that Okonnell uh, framed it today? Does it lean you one way or another about whether he’s going to start McCarthy? And and what did you think just in general of his commentary? Because he didn’t run away from it. He didn’t say, “Guys, I’m not answering these questions. Move on. Ask me about whether Blake Brandle’s playing center.” Uh, he answered all of the questions. Well, he knew what was coming and uh that’s fine. I He said a lot. He said a lot of words. I don’t know if he meant a lot of what he said. I think what where we’re at is and I base this just on being around the block a few times. The language was it was very non-committal, but it was also I’m not going to get ahead of this. But it feels like Carson Wentz is going to start only because I think if he was that confident in where McCarthy was in his recovery, he would have laid a few more breadcrumbs uh to get us through the week. And he didn’t necessarily do that. He kind of put it back in Tupperware and said, “We’ll figure it out at the end of the week.” But at the end of the week, what what I think is driving this and maybe isn’t even talked about enough is this is a high ankle sprain, right? This is a four to six week uh painful uh messy recovery. Uh especially for somebody who might be mobile. Uh he got injured a week ago, a month ago tomorrow. So, we’re still at the very early cusp of this solid recovery period. And for all of the uh the words he spilt and the intention he spilt today, KC is still making it clear that he needs to be 100% confident in that foot so he can plant and drive and make the passes that he needs to make. He can step out of the trouble that he needs that he’s been getting into and may continue to get into depending on where the offensive line goes. I just feel like um I don’t know if there’s a rush to put him in there except for the obvious political decision which is the franchise has pushed all its chips in the table. We need to know what we have. Yes, you do. But you also have a three and two team that could is kind of teetering on a needle and could fall either way with a roster that expects to win. And I just don’t see the urgency to get him back on the field. Now, if this was your best quarterback option going into a week 17 must win or a playoff game, I’m not sure Kevin Okonnell would spend as much time describing the strength and the foot and the driving and the mechanics that it would take to get him back on the field. the fact that it’s still week six7. Uh he’s just not going to put himself in a box. I respect him for that, but it’s it does kind of lead it just it the less certainty we have, the more pressure that builds to come up with something definitive. I’m not sure we’re even going to have that Friday, and we can get into this more, too. He seemed a little vague or at least not too descriptive of of Wentz’s left shoulder injury. Kind of dismissing it as well, it’s the nonthrowing shoulder and he’s going to be sore and this and that. Uh, you know, if he gets driven into the ground on one sack, are are we looking at uh rushing McCarthy out there when he wasn’t ready to start or are we looking at back to Brosma? I’m just saying these are things that need to be discussed all week. It’s only Monday. Yeah, the left shoulder does matter. Uh it’s uh it’s the old fallen shoulder. A lot of times if you get driven into the ground by uh Anthony Bar um then it Well, that was that was actually the collar bone. I think it was with Wentz. I just wanted to be like, man, what did you think you were going to do on that play? Did you think you were going to just like run over those guys? Uh but Manny, your your feeling from Kevin Oonnell and the way that he has uh kind of laid out I think he’s done a really clear job of laying out what he needs to see from JJ McCarthy and he won’t know if he sees it or not until the end of the week. Yeah. I mean because this it sounds like this is the first week that McCarthy is really going to participate in a lot of like football footbally things um you know since preparing for that Atlanta game and really with everything that went on and and Okonnell kind of talked about that today about how you know he’s only practiced basically one time since you know preparing for that Atlanta game you know that he only had the one practice that week so he hasn’t really gotten a lot of work, you know, physical work of he going out there and doing a lot of football footbally type of things. And I think if you’re going to put him back out there, I think you need to get a real strong sense of where he’s at first before you ultimately make that decision. And he’s coming off of an injury, an injury that, you know, can affect how he’s able to play the position. He is a mobile guy. he does like to run around a little bit. If he can’t do that and he’s starting for the first time in a month, you know, what are you really going to get out of him and are you going to get, you know, the best kind of performance that you need out of him? Obviously, like, you know, to your point, if this were a a sort of a dire straits type of situation where it’s it’s week 18 and they’re going for a playoff spot and he gives them the best chance to to win, whether he’s 100% or not, I would imagine he’s going to be playing. But this the way Okonnell kind of laid it out without actually saying it, it sounds like it’s going to be Carson Wentz starting against the Eagles on Sunday. And and I’m okay with that. And you know what, with the next game after that, with the Chargers being on a short week, we might not see JJ McCarthy until, you know, November 2nd at Detroit, you know, just because of the way the schedule is playing out and everything, too, which I think is okay if they decide to do it that way. if if they decide to say, you know what, that’s a lot. Like, think about, you just mentioned the date. What is it? November what when they November 2nd. November 2nd. So, it’s October 13th right now. And you could give yourself several weeks, including that mini buy for JJ McCarthy to continue to get 100% healthy and also lock in with some of this stuff that they’re asking him to do because right now he just got healthy, as you mentioned, just got back to participating. So, he’s going to have to have what, a couple of days working one-on-one with Okonnell last week in the building and then this week of practice with an extra day today, which is nice for him, but it didn’t look like it was going to be the most intense practice. They weren’t out there in pads like it was the middle of August or something today. So, a light practice on Monday, full practice Wednesday, Thursday, and then Friday is not like a a super heavy day practice-wise. I mean, that really gives him two full days and a little bit of this and that as opposed to several more weeks to be fully ready. And then you could also assess where your team is at because if you go 2 and 0 and WZ is awesome, then maybe you’re saying like actually look around the league, you might be good. And and this is what I want to play this game with you guys. I want to play this what happens then game. So I’ll throw you guys a scenario and then we could talk about what happens then. Let’s let’s let’s start with that one. Let’s start with the scenario that Carson Wentz plays really well and they go 2 and 0 in these next two games. Murf, what happens then? Do they just stay with Carson until the wheels fall off and have JJ McCarthy ready to go? Not based on everything I’ve heard uh in recent times and certainly in the last 6 to8 months or certainly not in the last 18 months. Carson Wentz was signed August 24th as a safety valve because Sam Howell couldn’t win the job that they thought he should win in May. That still doesn’t really affect where JJ McCarthy is in his development, right? So, it’s been difficult because even the PRA, you know, e before Okonnell mentioned it today, it didn’t dawn on me that yes, he did have that game against Chicago, then he went and had his first child. So, he really didn’t have much time after the Chicago game leading up to the Atlanta game, then he gets hurt. We’re still only looking at a snapshot of two professional games, two real games right now. So, I still don’t know if it’s you don’t know what you have in him, and you need to know what you have in him. Um, I I I find it difficult to believe that WZ is going to perform any better than he did these previous three games. and these previous three games were just fine. That’s what he was there for. Uh, you know, look, if he goes off for 350, 400 against his former team, we know what that storyline’s going to be Sunday, taking down the Super Bowl champs, if that actually happens. I mean, it does build momentum and it does build pressure for a difficult decision. But based on everything I know about where this organ organization’s been the last 18 months slash three years, it’s JJ McCarthy’s job. If he’s healthy enough to res return, he’s going to do it. If he looks awful in the first couple of weeks he’s doing it and the Vikings are hanging on at five and two or or six and three, then you may have to make a difficult decision that returns the ball to Wentz. I don’t want to get too far ahead on that. We know where this could head, but all indications are it’s still JJ McCarthy’s job to lose. And I don’t know if he’s lost it based on his first two performances. I’m not saying he can’t lose it on his next two. And you have Wentz there as the safety valve. But again, these are incremental decisions that have to be made based on performances that occur, based on circumstances on the ground that we don’t know. There are known knowns and there are known unknowns and we don’t know all the unknowns or knowns. I don’t know. I’m kind of blasting through my uh Bush era defense secretary uh you know uh you know sayings, but I just I don’t I feel like we’re we’re all we’re all trying to solve the big problem and the big equation and the big question and there’s still a lot of evidence that needs to come into play before we can really do that. So Manny, if Wentz plays well the next two games and you were in KOC’s seat, would you still say, “Look, McCarthy’s our starting quarterback, we’re playing the Lions at Detroit, he’s going to start. Off we go. I I feel confident in what I’ve seen in practice. He’s taken major steps. Back to where I want him to be. He’s QB1. Let’s go.” Or would you stick with Carson Wentz? I think if WZ plays well and they win the next two games and they’re five and two, I think it’s really going to depend on how well Carson Wentz looks. I mean, if he looks like if he plays the way he’s played these last three games that he started, then I think you go back to McCarthy because I think what we’ve seen from Wentz has been very solid, very, you know, very good for the most part. hasn’t really cost them. Hasn’t hasn’t been awful, hasn’t been great. Um, I think he’s been good enough, which is what you expect out of a backup quarterback. I think at that point, even if you win these two games and he plays well enough for you to win, I think you still go back to McCarthy because that’s ultimately the plan. If if McCarthy is ready at that point too and you’re getting enough look at him in in practice in in those weeks leading up to that game against the Lions, then I think you you go to McCarthy. Now, the other part of this is if if Carson Wentz somehow in these next two games looks like he did in 2017 when he was an MVP candidate before he got hurt, then maybe you’re having a different conversation because if he’s playing red-hot like that, how do you just go and and you’re winning, how do you go away from that? But I think that is sort of high-end, you know, possible but not very likely um scenario in that case. So I think if he’s average, if he’s solid and you win the two games, I think whether he’s well really even winning the two games at that point doesn’t really matter. If he’s just solid and you split the next two games or whatever, I think you go back to McCarthy. See, I think this is the biggest fear of playing Carson Wentz this week is that Philadelphia is not at 100%. And they just had their one of their better pass rushers just decide, I don’t want to play football anymore. Which is a real new one because he was playing well. Zidarius Smith was doing a good job for Philadelphia in his role and just was like, “Yeah, no, I’m good. I’m good.” I think this smells like a veteran who smells the rod in that locker room saying, “I don’t want anymore.” Doesn’t it feel that way? Right. Right. Like why? Wait, I’ve got millions and millions of dollars and 80s something career sacks. Like I’m gonna go fishing uh rather than deal with this. And it does feel like Philadelphia is kind of on the verge of a full melt. And if Carson Wentz takes advantage of that, say he starts and he throws for 210, two touchdowns, no picks, sacked three times, and they win 21-4. I and then they go out and beat the Chargers. Even if it’s a grindfest, I don’t see how you can go into that locker room as KOC and be like, “Actually, guys, he’s not your quarterback anymore.” Even though we’ve won five out of six or whatever. I mean, that’s just not I just don’t know how you do that. Especially, there’s a very important guy in this mix, which is he has just pumped the football to Justin Jefferson time and time again. And if Jefferson is averaging nine catches a game and they win back-to-back games and they are five and two and they’re right at the top going into a game with Detroit, who very well could be five-2 when they face them and it’s for the division lead, you’re not going to bench Carson Wentz at that point, right? That the locker room would probably go crazy uh if he was doing enough to win because they all believe, hey, all the quarterback has to do is just enough. And that’s what Wentz is doing. Let me throw another scenario at you which is the total opposite which is so we all know the easiest scenario is if they play McCarthy and he plays well he’s the quarterback we move on right like and then off we go into the rest of the season but how about if McCarthy plays and plays solidly what is the ceiling for this team like what happens then in terms of how competitive they can be if we see Murf McCarthy come in and plays okay but they win those two games where would feel like your confidence level would be that they were a legitimate contender at that point? Well, if they win both these games and they play solidly, they’re going to be five and two, which says they’re a contender. They may not look the most aesthetically pleasing contender, but they are a contender. And you’re developing your quarterback and you’re developing your franchise quarterback while relying on playmakers that seem to come up at the right times to make uh the plays that need to be made. And if you have an offense that is at least productive, if not uh dominant and if it’s secure in the football, then you can then you can win games 21 to 14 and feel okay about that. And then maybe as we go along in the season, McCarthy is gaining confidence. His technique, his his relationship with his receivers, his the confidence in the locker room is kind of growing here and there. Then maybe it ticks up here where then there’s a game that he does have to do what he does did in Chicago and come back with three touchdowns in the fourth quarter. Maybe there is a moment where he has to step up and you provide him that moment and he does. Either he does or he doesn’t, but I don’t feel like the fate of the team has to rest on the quarterback. I don’t think going into this season we felt that way because of the way the roster was constructed. There was this sense that if McCarthy can grow into the role and not lose games, but be there to supplement what all of his playmakers on his side of the ball, all of the defensive playmakers, if if they could just get through that while he’s developing, it would accumulate over time. And I think by November and December, as he’s playing tougher games, he’s going to develop a little bit of a thicker skin. and and you have a sense that coming into these late games maybe against Detroit and Green Bay at the end of the season that he won’t feel as overwhelmed as he might have against Atlanta. But again, we only have the two we have seven out of eight quarters that are ugly. We have a great fourth quarter in Chicago and we have a lot of, you know, speculation, which has been the theme for the last 18 months. You know, you mentioned how do you go into that locker room if Wentz plays well and you’re five and two and you suddenly say, “Hey, it’s it’s JJ McCarthy’s team again.” There’s a flip side to that too, which is if you don’t actually have the confidence to make that decision, whether or not you lose guys in the locker room. I mean, Quaz, the front office, KOC, they are all invested in the long term. the guys in the locker room aren’t. And I’ve talked about this tension in the past. They are looking to win yesterday, but as franchise stewards, the damage you could do to yourself, your credibility, and also McCarthy long term, if you just say, “Let’s just give it to the hot guy that we think can take us there.” We also have a pretty good sample size of Carson Wentz’s performances in recent years. That doesn’t say he’s going to sustain this. You mentioned the 2017 level that he was playing at. I don’t think he’s ever going to get back to that. Now, I could be proven wrong, but I don’t see that. So, my point is you may have to ride this out with McCarthy because politically the decision you make uh has ramifications well beyond 2025, both in terms of job security and also McCarthy’s confidence going forward. rather than satisfying some veterans in the locker room who want to win now with the question mark that is Carson Wentz. So, just going back to the the scenario with uh McCarthy, if he were to play just okay or maybe even not that great and win the games, uh then I think what you’d be hoping for is him turning a corner with the more experience. If you can find a way early, then it will eventually start to click in as you go because now like Detroit’s defense isn’t scary. Neither is Chicago. Neither is Baltimore. Like now we’re looking out a little bit and going, you know, those teams don’t look the same as they once did. And before I I get to your response, Manny, I shot you 99 says, uh, so we’re going to be in a never- ending cycle of recycling veteran quarterbacks. Well, you already have been. This is the Vikings, right? And just keep McCarthy story of the franchise, man. Yeah. Keith McCarthy in the background too afraid to play him. Uh, no. I don’t think that that’s I don’t think that that’s what we’re talking about here. I think what we’re talking about is even if McCarthy were to not play another snap this entire season, he will turn the disgusting old age of 23 next season. Like I I think what you’d be talking about if Wentz continued to play well and they stuck with him and McCarthy learned behind the scenes is handling this the way that they actually wanted to. the entire time and weren’t given a chance to work with him behind the scenes because of his injury last year. It does not end his career if he has to develop some more. And that’s kind of been my point about all the quarterbacks who are first round busts who are now playing great for other teams is Baker Mayfield and Daniel Jones and these teams just didn’t have a lot of patience or were incompetent and set those guys up to fail. Uh so Manny just uh how good can they be though is the question. If you saw McCarthy win two games, it’s not mind-blowing. It’s not terrible. Keeps the train on the track. Say that they win them the same way that they did against Cleveland. Yeah. I mean, I think especially when you look at these next handful of games, at least these next four games where, you know, early in the season, we were looking at these four games like, “Oh my god, this is like murderers row. This is going to be the really hardest part of their schedule.” And now you look at what’s happening with the Eagles. They seem to be in a little bit of disarray. The Chargers are banged up. Detroit, you know, it it at least looks like you’ll be able to move the ball on them a little bit and give yourself a chance. Baltimore is a mess right now. So, this is an opportunity, I think, for if JJ McCarthy does get into these games, you know, let’s say Detroit and Baltimore, there’s an opportunity for him to play very solidly for you and then, you know, he gains confidence, he gets better and better because then you’re playing Chicago at home, Green Bay will be tough, Seattle will be tough, you know, Washington will be tough, but you’ll have that game at home. So, you’re looking at scenarios where, you know, then you got Dallas and the Giants. You you’re you’re looking at scenarios and matchups where he could go out and play well. But the only way he’s going to be able to do that is if he plays. That’s the only time you’re really going to get a chance to to see him really grow and develop. and they can work with him behind the scenes and everything cuz we’ve seen that with other quarterbacks in the past where you know they don’t start we don’t see them at all for two maybe three seasons and then you know when they’re finally ready to go they they sort of hit the ground running. So I don’t I don’t know if there’s really a wrong way to go with this. If he plays well enough and gives you a chance, I’m kind of looking at I think on the high end 10 wins, a 10 and seven type of season, 11 and six maybe if some things go your way. Um, but the other part of this though I think is you got guys on defense coming back and getting healthy as well. Getting Blake Cashman back is absolutely massive. It is. I don’t think you can put a price on getting him back in the lineup. Van Ginkle, you know, that’s going to be a little bit tricky. Uh they could certainly use him back, too, but who knows with that. But getting Cashman back, I think, is really going to help things on defense, and I think it’s going to get give them a better chance to to really compete in a lot of these games. I think that they could be by the time you actually arrive at that moment in the playoffs, if he has played well in these next two games, then you could be talking about, hey, you’re five and two and make one one jump to the next level and look around and go you’re you’re there with everybody else in the NFC. Uh let me I I what I want to get into is around the league because everybody got a chance to just chill out and watch football uh this weekend and we’ve just got so many interesting developments in the NFL. So I want to talk about that in just a moment. Uh Marauder says Wentz has been throwing turnover worthy plays two to three times a game. What I love about having statistics is we actually have this number for you on the turnover worthy plays. So right now Carson Wentz in terms of turnover worthy play percentage has committed a turnover worthy play on 3.1% of his dropbacks which is 23rd out of 39 right next to Matthew Stafford, Bryce Young, Daniel Jones. Uh Jackson Dart, Jordan Love, M. Jones, and uh just behind Jared Goff. So there are other quality starting quarterbacks committing turnover worthy plays at a similar rate. That’s 23rd out of 39. 39th is JJ McCarthy among quarterbacks who have had at least 50 dropbacks. That’s the trouble. That’s the trouble that JJ McCarthy committed turnover worthy plays on 6.6% of his drop backs in his first two games. You cannot win that way. That’s the same rate of Jake Browning. So that’s what Kevin Oonnell is talking about is Wentz. He’s clearly pointed to in his commentary. Wentz has played the way he’s wanted him to play. It has not been perfect by no means. It hasn’t been flawlessly accurate. He doesn’t have a great PFF grade. I wouldn’t give him one either, but it’s been enough to win two out of three. And there’s been the fundamental stuff, the footwork, the timing on the throws, the decision-making, I think, has been mostly good for Carson Wentz. It’s really been the sacks hanging on to the ball way too long. Although we could give Pittsburgh a little bit of credit, by the way, being a 4-in-one football team and having mostly a great defense. So, let’s let’s go there. Uh, by the way, the FanDuel question of the day today is your biggest surprises through six weeks. And I mentioned that the Bucks being minus,400 to make the playoffs, just running away with that division and Indianapolis minus 520. I mean, those are majorly favored to make the playoffs. Teams that you would have been like, I don’t really know or you would have thought the Colts were horrible going into this season. But I’ll throw this out to you guys for the biggest surprise for me is the AFC North. It has been so consistent, competitive, even years where Burrow’s been hurt, that team’s been in it. Uh the Browns made the playoffs just uh what two years ago and Mike Tomlin is still at the top and still fighting that fight. And I I gotta I gotta give this to Aaron Rogers and it is far from over. But Aaron Rodgers I don’t think has played great this year but he hasn’t caused any problems. And as long as Aaron Rodgers doesn’t cause any problems, that defense looks awesome for them. Their pass rush is sick and Jaylen Ramsay is starting to come together a little bit for them. They’re going to make the playoffs going away it looks like with how bad that division is. So Murf, that’s been my biggest shock of the year, good or bad in the NFL. How about you? Well, I’ll piggyback off that and stay within that division. I’m really shocked the Baltimore Ravens are one and five and apparently can’t play defense. Yeah. I mean, that is in their DNA. And to have them be a Super Bowl, perennial Super Bowl contender with the reigning MVP, a quarterback, and to sort of always you expect Baltimore to be there in January. It’s going to be a, you know, a grinded out. I I I just figured it would be the Bills, the Ravens, and maybe the Chiefs, you know, just kind of knife fighting each other to the end. And Baltimore looks lost. They look lost. Obviously, they they they they’re without Jackson. I don’t know how much longer he’s going to be out. Sounds like he might be back by November 9th at US Bank Stadium. But having watched the Baltimore Ravens from their inception just be a constant defensive problem to becoming a turnoverprone defensive liability that really seems lost under John Harbaugh, a guy that’s been there what 15 years is really is startling. Now, all that being said, because the division is such a mess, they may be able to recover from this. I doubt it, but they may be able to at least make it a fight because other than Pittsburgh, no one else seems to be doing anything there. And then on the flip side of that, I would say the Buccaneers being five and one feels like and Baker Mayfield being in the MVP conversation, not just because of how he’s playing, because he’s earned it, but because when you if you’re chewed up and spit out by Cleveland and end up with four teams despite all of the the endorsements and sort of the superstardom that you had, maybe a bit before you earned it. I these are kind of the stories that you don’t see a lot of comebacks to. And this has been impressive uh to watch him single-handedly win games with his legs and his arms and his improvisation and just sort of his his gaming skills. And we saw it a bit last year in that season opener against the Vikings. You know, there was a little bit of that and I just felt like it it just feels like there’s a shifting a bit. There always is a shifting, but I’d say those are the two biggest surprises. is the fact that the Ravens are at the bottom at one and five and the Buccaneers look like the class of the NFC. Yeah. And uh Baker Mayfield, he’s reminded me of Steve Young right now. I mean, he really looks like he’s really playing like that. Like there was a stat that he’s got, I think, nine first downs on third down and long this year where he’s scrambled for first downs. He’s been super accurate. It doesn’t even matter who’s played wide receiver or offensive line. He’s just been making plays. And it is funny because it’s a comeback and underdog story yet he was the number one draft pick in the NFL and it’s it’s kind of like Darnold where it’s like this is who the guy was supposed to be. It just took a lot longer and the right circumstance for him to eventually get there. Uh your biggest surprise Manny? I got a couple. Um piggybacking off of what Murf said about Baltimore. I mean, it’s just to see the identity of the history of the Baltimore Ravens has been great defense. And to see their defense, you know, they only gave up 17 points to the Rams yesterday, but I mean, it didn’t matter. They, you know, was Cooper Rush playing quarterback and they only scored three points, so it didn’t matter. But to see the Baltimore Ravens defense just get torched week in and week out is just unbelievable to me and I think unbelievable to a lot of people. I’m going to go a different route. You know, I think Tampa Bay is a big surprise to Indianapolis as well as they play, but Daniel Jones in particular. Um I’m a little bit surprised with, you know, the New England Patriots are are 4-2. Yeah. just like quietly four and two and they went into it to Buffalo and won uh last week and and won a a sort of a hard-fought game there and they’re kind of sitting right there in the in the conversation in that in that division. I still think Buffalo obviously is still the class of that division but you know New England is kind of pesky and they they they’ve been competing in every game that they’ve been in even the games that they’ve the two games that they lost the start of the year against the RA against the Raiders and then at home against Pittsburgh. Um, but Drake May has made some real strides. He looks a lot better in year two. Um, better coaching it looks like too with Mike Vrael stepping in there. I think it really kind of shows Mike Rabel’s a pretty damn good coach. Um, but yeah, New England is a team that’s kind of like, oh, kind of raised the eyebrows like, oh, they’re 4-2 and they were awful last year. So, yeah, Patriots are kind of standing out to me, too. So, I I am a little bit shocked by that just because we saw them in joint practices and I was talking to all the Patriots reporters and they’re like, “Look, Drake May looks pretty good, but this team stinks.” Like, roster-wise, like he’s got nothing to work with and you know, Stefon Diggs is old and that kind of thing. And May is making those guys look good. Um, I mean, just I mean, receivers that you’ve never really thought much about are now making plays. And I totally agree, Mike Vrabel is good at this. uh you don’t I mean you don’t win as much as he did with Tennessee with rosters that were up and down and Ryan Tanahill as your quarterback without being a good head coach. Um so I guess I’m I am like mildly shocked but not as surprised just because knowing who their coach is and the pedigree of the quarterback. I’m going to throw something out there that might be an overreaction to a half of football. But what if Buffalo’s not that great? So, like right now on FanDuel, Buffalo is the Super Bowl favorite at plus 600. And I want to talk about some of the other favorites, but they are losing 21-27 to the Atlanta Falcons. They lost last week to the New England Patriots. They actually had some moments against the New Orleans Saints. Spencer Rattler has been playing better lately, but they had some moments against the New Orleans Saints where they were in a little bit of trouble in that game and they have just not been impressive at any real point so far this season. And just looking at the first half of this game against Atlanta, uh maybe JJ McCarthy is at home going, “Hey, that happened to me, too.” But, uh, Josh Allen is five for 12 with 98 yards. I mean, his numbers have just not been that good. They have bad receivers. It’s just bad. Josh Palmer is their top receiver. Keon Coleman looks like a bust to me. Elijah Moore is still in the National Football League. Like Curt Curtis Samuel, where where’s that guy been for years? So you’re saying New England’s going to win that division? I mean, what? So that would be like for as far as compared to what we thought that would be a huge shock. But I just feel like Buffalo is not what they were last year when they kind of got away with not having the the wide receiving core. So, let me give you Murf the Super Bowl favorites right now. And just uh just tell me what you think. So, the Bills are the Super Bowl favorite. I I mean, I think that’s fair, but I mean, they just have not been that impressive. The next two at plus 700, so very close, are the Packers and the Chiefs. Then the Lions, Eagles, Rams, Chargers after that. So the Packers, Murf, are second in the Super Bowl odds. I mean, are we wowed by the Packers? Because I definitely have not been these last couple of weeks. They kind of look like the same Packers that they’ve been for three years with Jordan Love. To me, I think they’re a very good team. I don’t think they’ve reached greatness yet. Um, I still feel like there’s some shifting sands going on here in both conferences, right? We We’re not It’s midocctober, so we’re seeing some of the warts show up on certain teams. We’re seeing some of the same issues that may have been plaguing teams before, but we’re also seeing other teams kind of step into the void and kind of create this whole new kind of level of expectation in in a variety of divisions. Bottom line, I still think Green Bay right now is the second best team in the division behind the Lions, but I don’t view them as formidable as I did maybe early in this or, you know, before the season. Mainly because of what you said. I think there are some there there are some moments where Love looks like he’s a two and a half, three/4er kind of guy or the defense is a two and a half three quarter kind of a team. There hasn’t been other than that week one win against Detroit. I’m not sure there’s been a complete performance by Green Bay yet. And the other thing you you know I wasn’t paying that much attention to the Chiefs before last night mainly because it’s the Chiefs you know wake me in December they’ll be there. But with Rasheed Rice coming back a little bit and seeing how M Mahomes looked pretty comfortable yesterday picking apart a pretty pretty good elite team, I feel like the Chiefs are still going to be there at the end. And I think so much of that scar tissue and championship metal sort of keeps them in the conversation. It’s easy to forget about them and kind of do this elevator game where we see this team rising, we see this team maybe falling, we see this team right. It it still feels like Buffalo and Kansas City are the class of the the AFC. Buffalo may not be a 14- win dominant team, but again, they’re learning a lot of hard lessons in the regular season and also in the playoffs. They know what it takes. Green Bay hasn’t been tested quite like Kansas City. And and I know I’m toggling between conferences, but I’m trying to talk about the big picture of being an elite team, winning, coming close to winning, expecting to win. Green Bay is still kind of knocking on that door a little bit. I don’t think everybody’s expected them because they’ve kind of been a little brother to Detroit the last couple years. So, I’m still waiting to see really what Green Bay is exactly about and uh whether they are going to be the Vikings biggest competition in the division or the Lions. How about Manny the Lions? What you saw from them last night? Yeah, they do lose to Kansas City looking very Kansas City like and when Mahomes is rolling like that, I don’t know how many games he’s ever lost where he has 130 quarterback rating at the end of the night. I’m going to guess that’s pretty few. But at the same time, the Lions wins just don’t look all that shining. I mean, they’ve beat Cleveland, they’ve beat Cincinnati, they’ve beat Baltimore. Those are three of the worst teams in the NFL. You should beat them. They beat Chicago coming off of that crushing loss uh to the Vikings. Uh we’re going to get to Chicago in a minute by the way they’re winning right now. But I mean, are are you feeling like they are if they get the secondary healthy still really good? Uh maybe we were too high on them after a couple of mediocre wins. Like where are we with Detroit? I still think that they are, you know, sort of in that upper echelon. Certainly in the NFC. I think that they are still certainly one of the favorites and one of the front runners um to to go on a run and get to the Super Bowl because of you know the personnel that they still have. They still have Jared Goff who’s still playing well. I know he wasn’t great last night, but you know, he’s still been playing at a pretty good level this year. They still have the weapons on offense. You know, offensive line still, there’s some question marks there, particularly on the interior side. Um, and and on defense, there’s some question marks there, too. But I think Dan Campbell, man, just I think he’s he’s another guy that’s kind of like Mike Rabel where he just you just look at him and you’re just like, that guy knows what he’s doing and it’s not locker rooms. Right. Right. Exactly. And you know, it’s not always going to look pretty. It’s not always going to be glamorous, but that’s one of those teams that, you know, they haven’t won the championship yet, but they still they seem to have some championship DNA within within that locker room, within that head coach. And what kind of stood out to me was Bran Branch does what he did to Guju after the game last night and Dan Campbell goes to the podium after the game and basically calls him out and says, “No, that’s not okay. We don’t do that here.” And that to me, I think even though he’s singling out his own player and calling out his own player, I think what that shows is a lot of, you know, humility from the head coach and understanding like, hey, I love Brian Branch and I need him to be at the top of his game. So, what he did after that game last night is not acceptable. This is that’s not the kind of team we want to be. We want to be a team that wins and wins and loses with class because there’s a bigger goal that we have. And I think that kind of represents a a team that I think is going to be there in the end in the NFC NFC championship game type of scenario. So I I it hasn’t looked pretty for the Lions and there’s some question marks certainly on the roster, but I think ultimately they’re going to be there near the end. I also think that the Lions can be buyers at the deadline and improve in some of the areas where they’ve been struggling, especially as second pass rusher. By the way, just as I was talking about how Buffalo has looked so flawed, they score a touchdown. And I wouldn’t be shocked if they win this game. I just mean that for a team that’s supposed to be a juggernaut, the runaway favorite, they’ve shown a lot more weakness than I expected so far for them uh this year. And uh just to touch on Chicago, it’s a little hard to do this in the middle of these games because it’s 13-7 Chicago right now. It could end 4213 or something depending on how stuff goes. But Caleb Williams is looking pretty good. And I don’t mean he’s looking amazing, but he is looking way better than he looked last year and even in the first week against the Vikings where it looked like the same Caleb Williams and then it wasn’t good the second week. But recently it’s starting to come together. Uh, did we write off Chicago too quickly, Murf? Because if I mean, if they win this game against Jaden Daniels against Washington, then all of a sudden Chicago is part of this conversation and we’re talking about Ben Johnson as potentially like putting his name into that coach of the year, uh, putting his name into a quarterback whisperer. We’ve just seen and right now and again, middle of the game, Caleb Williams is nine for 14 with 80 yards. He just looks more quarterbacky to me this year by far than he looked last year. And that’s what we thought when Johnson took the job in January. We thought, well, now Chicago’s going to be relevant. We’re going to have a a juggernaut division. I mean, it didn’t come together quickly in the first couple of weeks. Um, I think what’s interesting is there’s I want to I don’t want to compare McCarthy and Williams because they’re different skill sets and body types and whatnot, but what you’re looking at is Caleb Will Williams now growing into being an NFL veteran. And that’s what McCarthy was robbed of last year. Even if he didn’t play, he lost out on that opportunity to be on the field, to be in the practice huddles, to be running the scout teams, to do all of the things that when you build yourself up and you kind of build that experience and that DNA and that that scar tissue, Williams has had a lot of it and he had a lot of it last year. uh Madigloo failed him and the Bears failed him, but they they got the right guy and Ben Johnson to to kind of mold a quarterback. And it’s not going to happen overnight, but I do see the Bears being relevant here this season. I mean, I I wasn’t writing them off after the last couple of years as typical Bears. I was more thinking this is going to be a marathon in the NFC North. We’re not sure exactly what the Vikings are going to become because of their quarterback situation. We’re not exactly sure where the Bears are going to ascend to, but I don’t think the Bears are going to be that, you know, five and 12 team. Uh, I think they’re going to be a factor. And watching him progress kind of gives you a blueprint of what maybe McCarthy can do from an experience standpoint. Getting the reps, getting the starts, having the failures, having the the the eight sack games, the three interception games. You don’t want to see him lose as head coach. But I do think Williams is benefiting from so much of the adversity that he had gone through. And I just feel like again, we’re in this, we’ve always been in this win now. We’re always been in this he’s a 22-year-old first round top 10 pick. He should be winning now mode. You referenced Steve Young earlier. I mean, he’s the prototype of a guy that was an afterthought and had to wait behind a Hall of Famer in San Francisco before putting together his own Hall of Fame career. I’m not saying McCarthy or Williams should have to wait till their late 20s. But what I’m saying is it does take time for these things to organically play out and unspool. It’s not as simple as looking at a schedule and saying McCarthy should do well here, he should do well there. The Vikings should do well here. They should do well there. You know, schedule prognosticators in May typically shouldn’t have jobs come October because so much has happened. So many scenarios have played out on and off the field with teams that you can’t predict, you can kind of troubleshoot for, but until it really happens, you’re not sure where you’re at. And that’s why not only do they play the games, but it’s also why we endure the narrative buildup through the week because nothing is what it seems in May or July or September. It all kind of comes down to what you’ve endured and what’s gotten you to January. And that’s why it’s kind of fascinating. Uh let’s uh talk about Manny the Eagles here as the Vikings get prepared to play them right now on FanDuel. They are plus 1100 as far as the Super Bowl goes and that would be the fifth best odds. So they have not decided, hey Philadelphia season is over. They’re toast. They’re cooked. Good night. Uh I want to ask two questions of you about Philadelphia. Uh one is just like where do you think that they’re at? I mean, are you reacting uh strongly to what you saw the last two weeks or maybe saying, “Hey, this team is still pretty darn good.” And the other question is, are they where do they rank in terms of teams that Vikings fans hate the most? that that that just you know with Philadelphia their fans and all that stuff uh what happened in 2017 like start start with that part like do you think that they have elevated to the top of that list other than of course Green Bay is always going to be number one but where does Philly rank after Green Bay I think they’re up there um I think they’re up there in you know Saints conversation too with sort of the the hatred of the Saints that goes back to the 2009 NFC title game. And maybe that’s just more so less about the Saints and more so more so about Shawn Payeyton for some reason. Um, but you know, I think with when you look at the history between the two teams and particularly the playoff history between the two teams, the Eagles have always kind of been a thorn in the Viking side when it comes to the postseason. You talked about 2017, the the shellacking in Philadelphia and all the experience that the Vikings fans had when they went out there to Lincoln Financial Field. Um, you know, there’s the playoff game in 2008 at the Metrodome where Tvarus Jackson throws the pick six to Asanti Samuel and gets kind of like trucked into the end zone by whoever was blocking for Asanti Samuel. the long touchdown on the screen pass to to um to uh Brian Westbrook and and even I go back to 2004. Yeah. What after the after they beat the Packers at Lambo, they went to Philly. Yeah. Yeah. They went to Philly and they lost that game and I think it was Jeremiah Troder had a had an interception of Dante in that game. There was a a situation in the end zone where Freddy Mitchell, who was just like the fifth wide receiver on the team, catches a touchdown because I think it was like Willie Offford and and maybe Cory Chavis or somebody like they ran into each other and ruined an opportunity to get an interception in the end zone and then the ball just like landed right into Freddy Mitchell’s lap essentially for a touchdown and you that happens, you’re just like, “Oh, come on.” like what what’s going on here? Um but yeah, I I think there’s that just those sort of playoff games that have had those moments that stood out, I think is why the Eagles have kind of been a thorn in the side of of the Vikings and Vikings fans. And there’s been regular season games, too, where it’s been tough to win out there. But, um, I think just with the postseason history between the two teams, I think that’s where the Eagles kind of go up there as like that one of those top nemesis of, uh, of the Vikings. Hey, just a little public service announcement. The level of institutional knowledge anybody that’s listening just got from Manny Hill, he’s referencing Fred Mitchell and Corey Shavas on blown coverage from 20 years ago. Oh, yeah. You can only get that on purpleinsider.com. [Laughter] That that is very true. Um Murf, what do you think of the current Eagles though uh this game? Should we expect the Vikings to win? The Vikings are not starting the week favored, but should we expect the Vikings to win this game? I’ve never expected the Vikings to win this game as of today. Yeah, I think they do have a better chance too just because there’s a lot of moving parts and a lot of uh tension that you’re reading about coming out of Philadelphia obviously because of their performances, but also you know AJ Brown and the offense just doesn’t seem to be doing much. Saquon Barkley is nowhere near uh the pace and the dominance that he had last year in his 2000 yard season which is odd that and you wrote about this too collar that doesn’t happen there’s always a fall off after a 200 yard season whether it’s teams adjusting whether it’s the wear and tear on the back whether it’s the Eagles trying to you know not rely on him as much as they had to last year because their off their passing game was terrible last year it’s still terrible so I’m not sure where I think the the Eagles are kind of in a I would disarray might be a little bit harsh, but they do seem kind of on that tipping point, but they were last year as well. I mean, there was a lot of this discussion early in the year last year. Who are they? What are they trying to be? Why can’t they produce more? Why is Herz struggling in the passing game? And next thing you know, they just handed the ball to Barkley and they win the Super Bowl. So, I’m not saying that’s the blueprint, but this is a team with a lot of uh a lot of scar tissue, a lot of battle tested. You know, they’re not going to panic in mid-occtober. And I do feel like they are vulnerable though. And this is an opportunity for the Vikings to maybe not a signature win, which would benefit them uh hugely just because of the opponent, the timing, and as they are trying to come off that long European trip and the buy and kind of reset their their schedule. I’m not exactly sure they’re going to come out and do it yet. I got to kind of see where the week goes and and and how each team is responding to the situations they’re in. I feel a lot better today than I would have Friday or three weeks ago or six months ago when the schedule came out. Uh yeah, I I think uh when we talk about a team coming off the Super Bowl, we always just project them to be exactly the same and don’t factor how much they lost from that team. Is what happens every year with a Super Bowl team is that everybody else comes in and goes, “Oo, all of your free agents look very shiny. will pay them way more money than you will and then you lose them. Like Milton Williams getting 26 million. The Philadelphia Eagles could not keep that guy and now he’s playing very well for the New England Patriots, but they could they couldn’t keep that guy at 26 mil. So, they have to go h well I guess we’ll bring in this guy who was kind of a bust with another team, but maybe we can make it. And uh you know, usually if you win the Super Bowl, you stay completely healthy, which doesn’t always carry over as we found out uh from year to year. So you have a banged up team, a team that also has set the bar so high for themselves the last couple years that anytime they lose, it’s like a big national story that they lost a game. Where a lot of other teams, oh well, they lose a game. Like if Washington loses to Chicago, it’ll probably be like, well, you know, that’s that’s a pretty bad loss for them, but it’s not going to be wallto-wall on ESPN. What is going on with this team like it is with the Super Bowl champs. Uh did want to answer one comment. Christopher said, “Why do you keep saying WZEZ can’t get better? You don’t think learning the offense will lead to better play? Makes zero sense unless you’re a WZ hater.” So, uh, I have checked off the boxes of hating both quarterbacks so far tonight. Uh, which is always, uh, means I’m I guess I’m doing my job of speaking. What does objective criticism become? Well, I mean, look now, here’s So, here’s the thing about quarterbacks, right? All of our evidence would say Carson Wentz can’t get better. like his age, his recent performance. He’s been on six teams in six years. The last time that he started, he was benched for Taylor Hineki. And the year before that, he went 9 and eight with a very good Indianapolis Colts team. But I will Nobody’s making any of this up. But I will say that like them’s the facts, my friend. But I will say that when Case Keenum won a couple of his silly cartoony games early in 2017, I felt the same way about putting Teddy Bridgewwater back in. like yeah I mean you know it’s just kind of a backup quarterback who’s getting away with it and not he threw those horrible interceptions against Washington that year and Zimmer went crazy. He had a very middling performance against Green Bay, but won because Aaron Rodgers got hit by Anthony Bar and and ended that game, but he wasn’t playing well. And then all of a sudden, he started to play great and won game after game and put up big numbers and you’re like, I don’t know, man. And then never did anything ever again. Like sometimes quarterbacks can be the most unpredictable thing. We know this. Rich Ganon showing up with the Raiders at 30ome years old and then winning well winning MVP and reaching a Super Bowl. Like look, it’s very hard to predict. So, I shouldn’t say that there’s no chance that Carson Wentz couldn’t have the offense click and play great and be awesome and compete for the Super Bowl because it’s happened and it happens here seemingly all the time. But there isn’t much logic behind that. Uh that other than to say the guy’s got a big arm and he’s been, you know, pretty decent. But it’s not like we have a big body of evidence to say that. So usually the ceiling is already kind of set by the time you’re Carson Wentz’s age. But you never know, my friend. And that’s 31 teams decided that they didn’t need Carson Wentz by August. So but that’s what we love about the National Football League, Mr. Murf is that a bunch of teams decided even this off season that they did not need Sam Darnold and he’s playing great. They decided last off seasonason that Darnold was worth $10 million. $10 million and he ends up borderline MVP last year and playing great this year and the league valued him at 10 million bucks. How much did Daniel Jones get? Hardly anything to go play for the Colts. He’s leading like we just don’t know. So, is it possible that you’re right that he could get better if they keep playing him? Yes, it is. And then they are in a real world of confusion if Wentz keeps playing well and McCarthy is sitting there watching and then you’re going, “What is this team once again?” Part 1,00 for the Minnesota Vikings. Brian Murphy, Manny Hill. Every Monday we do this here round table. Manny picks the schedule on Thursday night. We will definitely be looking forward to that and the buildup here to Vikings and Eagles. So fellas, great stuff. Appreciate all of your time and uh enjoy the Monday night double header. Hopefully you got two televisions, maybe watch on the the iPad and the TV, something like that. I have two I have two TVs in my living room. I am I am totally that guy. Yes, that does not surprise me at all. So gentlemen, thank you so much and uh we will talk to you again uh next Monday. All right, football. Football and thanks everybody for watching listening and uh make sure you answer that FanDuel question of the day of your biggest surprise this year so far in the NFL if you’re re-watching this down in the comments. So thanks again and uh we’ll catch you all later.

Matthew Coller breaks down Kevin O’Connell’s comments about JJ McCarthy’s return to practice and what he wants to see from the young QB. Plus, he does not commit to an answer on either quarterback — at least publicly.

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