BUY OR SELL the Vision and Core of the 2025-26 Chicago Bulls? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

BUY OR SELL the Vision and Core of the 2025-26 Chicago Bulls? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

What up, Bulls Nation? We’ve got a live CSU Bulls right around the corner. On today’s show, some fun stuff coming from national NBA media as we near the end of the preseason. ESPN ranking 30 NBA teams by their trios, their big threes. We’ll talk about where the Bulls ended up in that. Plus, ESPN released a full 2526 season simulation. Surprise, the Bulls season doesn’t end exactly as it did the past 3 years. plus the clarity index from the ringer. How clear is the Bull’s vision this season and beyond? We’ll talk about all that next. [Music] [Applause] [Music] What’s going Going on Bulls nation. Welcome in to the CHO Bulls podcast coming to you live from our studios here in West Loop downtown Chicago. I’m PCB Bulls Peek. That’s big day. Bam. BWL sports. Will they go Beverly Quaff will go? King of the controls. Our guy Joey Z. What up Joe? Gentlemen, I know we’re going to talk big threes today, but I’m looking at my big three right in front of me. Shucks. Heart heart palpitation. Heart flutter. Like I said, they pointed it right at me. Well, you’re in the middle. Yeah. Okay. All right. Would have pointed there, too, if I was sitting there. Well, fair point. Fair. CS presented by Michelob Ultra and Bet 365. The delicious taste of victory deserves something equally superior to your on your team with Michelob Ultra and download that Bet 365 app. Be sure to use promo code three CHO365 when you sign up. Whatever the moment, it’s never ordinary at Bet 365. All right, gentlemen. We got one preseason game remaining on deck tomorrow back at home against Minnesota. The Bulls fall to two and two with their preseason record after their loss out in Denver last night. Wanted to before we dive into everything I just mentioned, the ESPN stuff, the Ringer stuff, just a final few thoughts on last night’s game. Plus, we heard from one of the new Denver Nuggets who has a longlasting connection to Modis who had some pretty high praises for him. Man, also were you surprised that Valen Junis played as many minutes as he did in last night’s preseason game? I know Valenunis’s thighs were surprised at how many minutes he played. Hamstrings on fire. Well, actually uh our our friend Adam at DVR did a great video breakdown. I don’t know that included uh anything from last night’s game, but they’ve been using a lot more of Yonas than I anticipated that they would. And they’re playing him with Yic, which which they did last night. So, really good video breakdown. You should go check that out on DNVR Sports. Love that. Talk about people utilizing more and more multiple big lineups uh across the NBA. Yes. Joker Valenunas is quite the doozy of a two big lineup. Doesn’t get much bigger than that. Yeah. Seriously, that’s going to be something. Uh but so before we get to the the Modis and Valenunas thing, guys, uh I we didn’t really touch much on what we saw from the rook Noah Asen last night. I did want to just kind of briefly circle back to what we saw from him. Um, we’re not sure where, if at all, he’ll be in Billy’s rotation out of the gate this season. We’re projecting he’ll get plenty of action in Windy City games when the Bulls schedule allows him to head down there to get some run. Um, it’s I feel like it’s been kind of up and down from from Noah in these preseason stints. Dave, what did you see from him last night? Young and gay. Well, yes. Yes. I mean, I up and down is fine. I have no problem with that with a rookie. Like, I want the highs to be high. I don’t need the lows to be low. He’s got a lot to learn. Like he’s still a project. We said that when he draft when we when the Bulls drafted uh him. He’s a project. He’s gonna have to go through the growing pains. Um I just wanted to see his defense because that’s what’s going to get him on the floor. Like it’s not about how much he scores. Like I don’t think that impresses Billy. I think how you defend and how many options he has at that level is what’s going to impress Billy Donovan and allow you get more minutes uh on the floor. So, in the G-League is where his game will continue to grow and we’ll see him play and he’ll get the ball more. So, to develop more offensively, he’ll do it that way. But defense defensively though, I just want to see it continue to grow and develop. And I like what I’m seeing uh from that young man. Like, I feel he’s a little more advanced in some areas of his game that he’s given credit for, and then other areas of his game, you’re like, “Oh, no. You still need to work on these things right here.” So, I think he’s about right where he kind of should be. Yeah, I think that’s a great way to put it because you’ll be watching um you know, I think it was the the most recent home game. I’m forgetting which who which opponent they were playing. Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Uh where they’re running a break and he got like a hit ahead pass running down the middle of the floor and immediately just knew instinctively got to find the corner. Um and it ended up being a cutter for a layup. So there’s moments in games where he just like has the basketball instincts to like make the right play and that’s pretty impressive for a guy that’s 18 and a half years old, the second youngest player in the entire NBA. Um I do think that the pro experience with M really helped him. I still think he’s a ways away from like really fully understanding where to be at all times, how to process the game uh as quickly as he needs to at the speed of the NBA game. I think that will take time. I’m curious to know from like Billy’s perspective, and this is something I’m planning to ask him over the next couple days, of just like how he compares to where Modis was at this time last year as far as his like readiness to be productive at the NBA level and if he views uh Noah in the same way that he viewed Modis or further behind, maybe more ahead. Um, but Billy’s been pretty um, you know, consistent in his evaluation of Noah, which was kind of the same thing I said. uh impressed with his IQ and understanding the game. The athleticism is there. The the transition game is great, but um I still think there’s a long way to go and that’s just going to take time. That’s how it is for young players. Yeah. And it’s not like it stuck out like a sore thumb. Uh Noah did have four fouls last night, but the Bulls as a team committed 400 fouls. So like, okay, rooks, can we get a check on tend to Yeah. You fact check that real quick if you want. 399. Oh, 39. I’m sorry. I I rounded up. Yeah. Um, but it see it tends to be a pretty common problem or just challenge obstacle, something to get past for young guys in the league who are adjusting to the physicality of the NBA who are trying to to make their presence felt on the defensive end. Yeah. And especially if you are a rookie who just got drafted, you’re a lottery pick and your coach is preaching at you in in training camp practices, physicality, physicality, physicality, and and you don’t have the respect of NBA any NBA ref yet because you’re a rookie, any kind of contact that you initiate, you’re going to get whistled for. Oh, without a doubt. So, like I’m I’m not stressing about Noah having four fouls in just 17 minutes last night. As Bulls fans, we’ve seen worse. Yeah. So like you know I but it does Tony S in the comments that said I still feel like we need more size at the four that is in addition to being encouraged about I think go as you were just uh alluding to Noah’s already awareness of where he needs to be on the floor which I am encouraged by the other thing that I am noticing is his frame is just freakishly narrow. Yeah. Like not that we didn’t know that when we when we drafted this guy, but I he’s got that that young Kevin Durant that Chad Holgrren, not quite Wemi level, but just like he’s got a little Scotty like central Arkansas Scotty. And I’m not seeing Scotty Pippen who’s younger didn’t hit the weight room yet. Scotty 100%. Right. Which Yeah, exactly. But like it it freaks me out watching him run up and down the court with these more muscular NBA players. cuz I’m like, “Yeah, like be careful Noah.” Like, you know, it’s like a little baby bird. Like, I’m worried. And I’m I’m not saying like, “Oh, he needs to get in there and bulk up.” We saw a modest ad what I think he said about 10 pounds of muscle. Um, we go you talked about and and Pat has been talking with the media about it about shedding a shedding a little bit of weight this uh this off season. It’s, you know, for younger players especially, it’s always a talking point. what is the perfect body type for this player and their NBA game. With my with Noah, I’m just like I’m just worried. He’s just so thin framed and he’s also like very upright. He’s like very high hips. He’s not really somebody that’s like getting lower to the ground and like using leverage. Um Okay. Which is fine. You know, it’s just it is what it is. And I think it’s it’s yeah, it’s a little bit hard to put on weight when you have narrow shoulders like that. So, I think he’s going to get get stronger for sure. like he’s going to be working out with NBA strength and conditioning coaches and he’s going to continue to grow. It wouldn’t even surprise me if he continues to grow taller because he’s still so young. Yeah. Um so, but that just takes time. Like I even for Modest like he still is very skinny relative to other players in the league and he’s had a year of experience. He’s 21 years old now compared to 18 and a half and you know he’s had a full season with the Bulls in their strength program. So that stuff takes time. Giannis came into the league very skinny. He’s obviously like outlier, you know, 99.999 percentile in terms of like just physical development. I’m not saying Noah’s going to get there, but like prime Giannis is but like his his body right now kind of reminds you of like a rookie Giannis and like maybe you can’t put on weight. There’s always like like you’re saying Dave, the balance of like too much weight. You don’t want to like be strong to where it slows you down, but you do need to add strength to be able to like take the physicality of the NBA game. So, it’s just it’s going to take time, but it’s certainly glaring watching him, especially like next to guys like Aaron Gordon or like Yo, I mean there, you know, tenure vets in the NBA, you know, they’re just way bigger. Yeah. And I just think the good thing is that it’s the Bulls aren’t going to be dependent on him, right, this season to really do anything but take his time and grow. And so, everything you all are saying is a thousand% correct. Um, and it’s okay. And that’s a good thing. like if if he wasn’t at this level right now. And I think honestly since we’re saying this, we we obviously see something in the young man that we’re like, “No, there’s a game there. There’s something there. So, let’s harness it. Let’s develop it. Let’s grow it and see what matures from that.” Uh when he, you know, gets to his second year and then his third year and so on and so forth. But being around guys like Modisellis will help him because as you just mentioned, go having that same slender kind of body type. Well, how did you put on 10 pounds? What did you do? Because Modis has not never really shied away from contact, right? He just needed to put the muscle on to be able to take the contact and then to continue to play and and go forward. I got some life hacks for him if he needs help gaining 10 pounds. I know how to gain 10 pounds real quick. I got to help him out. I don’t know how coming from the man who’s been eating other cakes and beefs for the Cubs postseason run. That just so happens to be my plan. It’s a fivestep plan of beef dog back to beef to cake and then a little more cake 10 lb plan. That’s that’s a five point 10B plan. That’s like a charm every time. And that’s in three days. I like it. It just depends on how hard you want to push yourself. How bad do you want it? How bad? You got one of those beefs at least has to be a big beef, not just the regular beef. No, not those tiny Not the tiny cater bees. Got to be Matt don’t do that. He don’t do the small. No, give me the big beef. Uh Uda in the chat saying, “I think it’s better to continue and be physical and learn how to reduce your fouls while doing so rather than be less physical to reduce fouls, referring to Noah’s four fouls last night.” Uh Travis Mcnite pointing out things on the other end for Noah. How about that free throw rate? Yeah, when you’re talking about initiating contact, Noah’s free throw rate has been great in the preseason. How about it? um his uh his Young Bulls teammate Bos Misellis did add some muscle and he’s been throwing that muscle around in these preseason games and uh he has had a long-standing connection with longtime NBA vet Yonas Valenunis who we saw in his new Nuggets jersey last night, the Lithuanian connection. Uh Valenunis has had a big role on their national team for many years and he spoke after last night’s game about his impressions of Modis and their uh their connection. Joey, take it away. I know him. Valentino is saying if he keeps working like this, yeah, he’ll be one of the greatest. That’s what he’s saying. And that’s always been my high ceiling upside view of what Modis can be in this league. The combination of what already is appears to be a striking work ethic. Yeah. With the physical tools and skills that he’s developing. Yeah. It’s all there, you know, and it’s just about it being put together to where it’s easily accessible for him. You know what I mean? And not just trying to find it, but it’s there. Like, you know, that’s what the stars do. Like, it’s there. Like, all they have to do is they got to go to they’re going to do they know what moves are going to happen. They know what shot is going to go in. They know what shot they’re going to take. They know where to be on the floor. Like, all those things just come. And again, this is just going to come with repetition, time, and practice. But he is ahead of most people’s timelines of where they had him at. Um he’s not ahead of like Bulls fans timelines because we’ve been want this for a while from this young man. So, but no, it’s just it’s it’s great to see and anytime anybody can give you that kind of accolade, especially a veteran like Valunis can give you those kind of accolades, man. It just makes your heart sing and it makes you even more happy that he’s on your favorite team playing for your squad. Yeah. I mean, I think Modis obviously like players are going to be especially when they’re like have relationships before like they’re always going to be very complimentary. Um that’s why I never was like blown away by when LeBron said Patrick Williams, you know, it’s like you got to take it with a grain of salt, but um it confirms what we’ve all been seeing and I think that’s the positive affirmation that we can take away from it. True. Love it. Love when an NBA vet like that is throwing confidence behind Misella. Uh we’ll take our first when we come back on the other side. ESPN ranking all 30 NBA teams by their big three trios. Who are those Bulls players? We’ll find out next. Hit the like. You can either be good, you can either be great or what you truly want to be is you want to be ultra ultra ultra ultra ultra magnetic. And you only get that with Michelob Ultra, ladies and gentlemen. Well, why is it ultra? Cuz it’s 2.6 carbs and 95 calories. It’s the superior smooth taste that is worth playing for. And Michelob Ultra is the official official official American beer sponsor of the Chicago Bulls. The superior game meets the superior taste. Grab a Michelob Ultra. Superior light beer as you cheer your team on and look like this. Crack. Oh my god, Michelob Ultra. Oh my god, I’m so satisfied. Did Modus just dug? All of that is going to happen all at once, ladies and gentlemen. No matter what you’re playing for, make it superior and do it with Michelob Ultra cuz as I told you, you either be good or you can be great, but always, always be ultra. Today’s show also brought to you by Bet 365. We are in the thick of football season and there is nothing better. And with that bet 365 early payout offer, you’re a winner if your team goes up by 17 points with an instant payout on straight bets and parlay selections marked as winners. I think the Bears could be up by 17 against the Saints this Sunday. Uh-huh. So, why not bet on it? Why not? Don’t be uh don’t uh don’t forget to use that promo code cho 365 when you sign up. Also, there’s all kinds of football bets. Thursday Night Football, $10 safety net bet. 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Visit Four Seasons Heatingcooling.com for all their special offers and money-saving coupons. They got them. That’s Four Seasons Heating Cooling. what.com splam. All right, so um ESPN, a lot of other national NBA outlets have gotten a taste of NBA preseason action and everybody’s trying to figure out what we’re all about to watch together for the next 6 months. Who’s going to be good? Who’s going to be bad? Which teams are rising? Which teams are falling? Who are the most important players on each squad? So ESPN yesterday uh or maybe Monday dropped their NBA roster tiers ranking the top trios for all 30 teams. Okay, even if you don’t necessarily have what the league at large would call, you know, quote unquote big three of three star players on max or close to max level contracts, the three most important players on each squad. Okay. Uh and broke it down into tiers of those squads. Got you. Tier one, a league of their own. For instance, the reigning champion Oklahoma City Thunder with SGA, the league’s reigning MVP, Chad Homegrren, and Jaylen Williams. Amazing. Right behind them, knocking on the door, tier two, the team the Bulls just faced last night, Denver Nuggets with Aaron Gordon, Nicole Yic, and Jamal Murray. Good to you. Um, at the top of it, Bonds makes note the NBA might be in its depth era. Shout out AK, but star power still wins the day. someone tell AK. Uh, in a sport in which only five players take the floor for each team at a time, a concentration of stars has been a clear way to build a championship level team. But even when a team doesn’t have a trio of ready-made stars, looking at the top three on each roster is a good way to measure both the short and long-term health of an organization where the franchise is headed over the next months and years. With that rubric in mind, shout out to you use the word rubric for real. We not only have laid out the core of all 30 NBA teams, but also ranked them in comparison to one another and have done so by taking into account both the group’s present and future value along with the likelihood that these players will be their respective teams will be with their respective teams for the medium to long term. So oftentimes recently when you get one of these things from ESPN or another national NBA outlet, you got to do a little scrolling. Scrolling. Where are our beloved bulls? Scroll. Scroll. Which tier are we? tier eight called, that’s right, stuck in the middle. That’s And they define the Bulls trio of players as Modis, duh, Josh Giddy, duh, and Noah Asen. Oh, you might notice the absence of Kobe White in that. And there’s a little excerpt there, Joey. Thank you. Please, uh, saying, “It’s a franchise per perpetually stuck in the mud. Tell us something we don’t know.” One could argue the Bulls should be in a lower tier than this, but that would be saying the Bulls are definitely going to be committed to bottoming out and rebuilding. We know that that’s never going to happen. History suggests they’ll win 38 39 team uh games and be in the playin, which in this season’s East is very possible. Uh Giddy’s a core player after signing his deal, Kobe White, although the team’s best player is not as he enters the season on an expiring deal. instead number 12 pick in this year’s draft. Noah Sen is one alongside Booze Zealous, last year’s number 11 pick. And for reference, they remind you that last year this top 30 or the top uh the trio tiers that they did was Giddy Kobe and Patrick Williams. Oh, maybe because Pat had just signed that long-term contract at the time, but I was not ready for that. Um Okay. I mean, some other teams in the stuck in the middle category. Gee, Miami Heat. Hello, old friends. Good to see you here. The Kongs, the Bulls of the Western Conference. Nice to see you here. Toronto Raptors. Familiar faces. Uh, and then the next tier, tier nine starting rebuild includes teams like the Hornets, Pelicans, Suns. Uh, so stuck in the middle tier. What do you make though of the fact that they omit Kobe and include Noah in this team’s present and future core? Oh. Uh, interesting. Um, making note of the fact, hey, he’s on an expiring deal. His name is going to come up in trade rumors between now and the trade deadline. It It makes sense. I I get the logic behind it for sure. Um, seeing it in print makes it real. I think that’s what what it is about it. Why I was like, “Oh, time to taking it back.” You know, like seeing Patrick Williams there in print. Um, it’s it’s a possibility. It’s not something that’s out of the realm of understanding or out of the realm of logic. Yeah, there’s a possibility Kobe can could be somewhere else next season. For the sake of this, I understand he just wants to go on what’s more concrete and what’s more concrete is modest and what’s more concrete is Singay and what’s more concrete is Josh Giddy who just signed his deal. All that makes all all the sense in the world for sure. So, if you’re looking at it in that sense, yeah, I get it. I think even if you put Kobe here, you’d still be in that same tier. you still uh would be in kind of that tier eight. Um so I don’t think it changes anything, you know, as far as what the Bulls are to the rest of the people watching, you know, nationally what this team is doing. I think the confusion confusion of what they’re doing kind of stays the same u with this team. But it is it is hammering the point home. Uh, to me, I’ll speak for myself, it’s hammering the point home that there is a possibility that this could be Kobe White’s final year. I don’t like it. That didn’t even sound nice saying that right there. But there is that possibility that it could happen. And you’re looking more so towards the future of this team and what they need to focus on more so than what could be for this team, which is they could get a guy like Kobe White to come back. And that’s why like I I know you’ve been sort of the one saying this the most, Dave, but it’s why I totally agree like this year they’re like they’re not going to win a championship. They’re probably not going to like make a deep playoff run, but this year is going to tell us a lot about the future in so far as we’re going to know if they’re going to continue building around the like Kobe Io herder contingent of like 25 year olds like the young veterans with experience or if they’re going to move more towards the Noah Giddy obviously is you know kind of bridges that gap. Uh but modest Noah and and Giddy of like okay maybe they win 38 39 games lose the playin uh maybe they miss the play alto together it’s like you’ve got all these expiring contracts you’ve got all this cap space it’s time to either reset things for real build around the young core that you have and like really orient towards them you can still try to be competitive while you do that but like you can also put yourself in a position to not win as many games kind of load up for the draft um and start building on a younger timeline or maybe it goes the other Okay. And they, you know, win 42, 43, 44 games, they make it out of the plan and they, you know, put up a fight in the first round, then maybe you are starting to think like, okay, actually, we are kind of on to something here. Let’s stick with Kobe. Let’s stick with IO. Maybe we bring in some more help, find a longerterm center option, and we bring Noah and Modis along as we go, and then they can kind of take it in four or five years um as this current core sort of ages out or we lose them to free agency. So, I think that this season is really going to tell us a lot about which direction they end up going. That’s kind of like the perspective of like how is the cap sheet looking? But at the same point, like there’s also the stuck in the middle part which you always have to factor in with the Bulls which is like maybe they just want to be where they are and in that case maybe they just bring everybody back and continue to do what they’re doing. So those are kind of like the two different and that’s why I think the the question for Bulls fans who want the Bulls to be above a stuck in the middle team that has been in that tier for several years now why we are putting so much of our hope and all of our eggs in the modest betta’s basket. Not to say anything negative about Josh Gaty, Kobe White, or the or the young rook Noah Zeng who who you may believe in, but like for the Bulls to move up a tier in the who are your team’s best three players rankings, Modus has to be the star. Yeah. Like at least in my opinion cuz like a simple exercise if Bulls fans some of whom might say this is disrespectful. The Bulls have shifted gears. They’ve got a younger core of promising young players, some of whom have allstar potential. Whether you’re talking about Kobe, Josh, andor Modest Mousellis. Uh the tier above them, changing courses, includes the Grizzlies and the Sixers. Would you rather have Modest Noah and Josh or Edgecomb, Embiid, Maxi? Give me Edgecom and be Maxi. Would you rather have our guys or Cedric Coward, Jiren Jackson Jr. and John and John Morans? You triggered him. I’m just playing. I’m just playing. It’s not even close. Yeah. Yeah. The you know the tier above that like uh old stars big questions includes the Mavericks. Would you rather have our trio or AD, Kyrie, and Coupe? I would rather have Cooper. Yeah, that that one. And then I would make decisions about the older guys. But so yeah. So for present and future, like here’s an interesting one. Would you rather be where the Bulls are now? Or would you rather have the Warriors trio of Jimmy Buckets, Steph, and Draymond? Cuz like that’s on its last legs, but they can legitimately contend for a title this year. They have a chance to win and like that’s what it’s about. So, I am generally biased towards like younger teams and building through the draft, building through like player development and like the ascension as opposed to like the peak and the postprime. But like I mean you’re talking about a team that could legitimately win the championship this year with an all-time great player. Like you go with that. Yeah. Uh the the two LA teams, Harden, Kawawaii, Zubots. Would you rather have that trio of players or the Bulls trio? Now that get that kind of gets tough. That one that one gets tough. The the retirement home Clippers uh you know, who knows? If they all stay healthy, that could be a fierce squad. But think about like, yes, you you talk about the top three, but think about like the entire team. Like that team is built to win today. I’m not saying they have a great chance to do it, but like they’re they’ve got depth. They’ve got veterans up and down the lineup. They’re going to be an elite defense. Like it’s really hard to put this into the context of time frame and like how long the window is, right? And then also, yeah, big three is like a fun thing to measure, but you’ve got 12 other guys on your roster that also matter, right? especially for true, you know, depth league. And then that’s the interesting part because like the the the changing course tier just above the Bulls and then the tier above that the, you know, getting older but still have a solid core of players. Uh but questions about the long-term future, those kind of teams like yeah, as a Bulls fan, I’d rather have that level of potential, you know, contending for championships, talent. And then the tiers above that are like young teams with star talent. They’re stars and they’re young. your Pacers, you know, your your Thunder and and all the teams like your Rockets, your Pistons, all that. So, it’s hard it’s hard to be like, well, how dare they disrespect this Bulls young core that I believe in. Okay. Well, like compared to the rest of the league, honestly, I I think the more interesting question is like are the Bulls rated too high. Like you look at some of these other teams like I think the the King situation like I I wouldn’t want to be there but you have like the Raptors whose core is Barnes, Ingram, Murray Boils. I don’t know if I would choose like they have got they’ve got Barrett who I probably would include in there either but like quickly um they’ve got like a ton of young guys up and down that lineup. I think they’re going to be much better this year. Lamelo Ball, Khan Canipple, Brandon Miller, Jeremiah Fears, Derek Queen, Zion Williamson. I mean, for me it would be good. It would be Trey Murphy in there. Like Booker, Dunn, Malawatch, I probably would take the Bulls over. Uh, and then like the rebuilding teams still probably, but like the Blazers, Kamar, Klingan, and Sharp, Scoot’s not mentioned in there. Denny, Denny, Avdia, I almost called them Denny Average. Denny, not in there. Like I think they’re a they’re a way better core than what the Bulls have. So, I think like yeah, the bulls, you know, aren’t very high, but like they could be a lot lower, too. They could be. Uh, with that, let’s knock out an ad break. We’ll come back on the other side and dive into the clarity index, courtesy of Howard Beck of the Ringer. What up, Beck? Uh, more fun stuff to talk about as far as where the bulls shake out in this one. Hit the like button while you listen to some ads. We’ll be right back. Joy. Are there ads there? Hello. There are ads. What’s up, Joe? Today’s show brought to you by Mando. Football is here. You know that feeling? It’s game day. You’ve been working hard, maybe doing a little lawn work, running around, doing chores before kickoff. And that lucky jersey of yours might be smelling a little too lucky if you know what I mean. But that’s why we got the game changer that is Mando deodorant that has sweat control. It’s just another It’s not just another cover up. Mando is one stick, two jobs. 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Uh, shout out to Howard Beck. Great NBA writer, longtime NBA writer. Um, so this is the second year that they’ve done this for the Ringer, and it goes like this. Every franchise swears it has a plan. Here’s a team by team look at who actually knows what they’re doing and who’s just pretending to. uh a year ago when they set out to rank the league’s 30 teams not by their talent or potential but by a more foundational element. Clarity of purpose to wit does your favorite team have an actual identifiable plan? Not forecasting wins and losses, grading offseason roster moves, not concerned with the team’s onc court success so much as their intentions, their clarity of purpose. Okay, for example, in their top tier of clarity uh index, the evercle tier, teams that know exactly what they’re trying to do, and so do we. You got your title contenders, Cavs, Nuggets, Knicks, Thunder, Magic. Got it. Also in that tier, the Washington Wizards. It is clear what their vision is, what their purpose is this season and beyond. Fair. Um, tier two, the side view, mirror tier. Objects and obstacles are closer than they appear. Teams that have a muddling of like a now plan and a later plan. The Brooklyn Nets, the Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets, Milwaukee Bucks, Minnesota Timberwolves. Um, there there’s the frosted glass tier. There’s a plan here, but it’s hazy. Hawks, Pistons, Celtics, Pacers, Sixers, Spurs, young teams with playoff aspirations and on the rise, but do they have enough to be actual contenders? You got your gap year teams and the Celtics and Pacers in there. The Sixers. What is the future of this team with and or without Joel Embiid and the Spurs? You got Webby. What else you got? Then you get to the past past the stained glass tier, past the kaleidoscope tier, you get to tier five or no, I’m sorry, tier six, the funhouse mirror tier. Oh, this would be fun. Confusing. Freaky freaky and occasionally entertaining. Does that not sound like Chicago Bulls basketball last season? This season, the Bulls are in there. As are Oh, look. It’s our old familiar friends, the Pelicans, the Kings, the Raptors. Um, Beck wrote, “We’re tempted to rename this tier the Chicago Bulls tier because no NBA franchise is as consistently baffling and maddeningly complacent.” Shout out to that phrase. We credit them for finally moving on from the D Rozan Lavine era, but they’re still clinging on to Vuch and still showing no indication they have any particular aspirations other than making the playin tournament every April. Howard Beck, you are my spirit animal. Um, should we change it to the maddeningly complacent house on Madison? Yes, that’s right. Joey C. It’s just a few extra letters from Mad House on Madison though. That was very, very good. Well done, sir. You know what? I don’t think the Blackhawks are complacent. I think the Blackhawks are trying to do things that be better. That’s true. That’s true. And they they also tanked to get a bunch of first round picks that over a series of several years. They now may have four, five, six, seven high first round picks all playing together for the next two or three years and they’ll find out if they got an awesome, exciting young core or not. Imagine. Could you even imagine? No. Tanky doesn’t work. Peek, shut up. Oh god. Um, so like I think simple question, agree or disagree, Dave, that the bull’s clarity of purpose is as hazy as as Beck writes and believes it to be. Or do you believe that there is some clarity to what AK and his crew are trying to accomplish here? Um, first of all, when I read the first sentence, I was like, “Oh, Matt.” I was like, like Matt is gonna love all this is my internet candy. Yeah. I was like, “Yeah, national NBA writers clowning the Bulls for the joke of an organization that they are.” I I’m just here to support Matt. This is Matt’s day. Like, I’m just here to support. I do think they have um some semblance of a plan. They have a plan. I I think they do. Yes. I think when they signed Josh Giddy and I think the ascension of Modiselis and I think the drafting of Essenay tells you kind of what the plan is or what kind of players and archetype of players that they want on their team and how they what kind of team they want to be. Um so I feel it’s there but yes it is still a lot of smoke about the rest of that plan. So, I can see the the top part of it, but the rest of it is just under a cloud of smoke, and I can’t make it out what they really want to do. Like they said, still having food here, uh, like they have. Um, sometimes some signings over the years that they’ve made have been some some head scratchers. Um, curious to see what they do with all they got what, seven guys with one years left on their contract. So, I I really don’t know what they want to do, you know, in that sense. So the top part of it, like as far as who they kind of want to build it around and what they want to do as far as that, I get that part. The rest of it is it’s like, have you seen on the internet when they have that picture of the horse and then as it goes along, it’s just a stick figure? Like people use it to describe like Game of Thrones season by season. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like that, you know? It’s like that for me when I’m when I’m looking at it. I get what’s happening up here. I see it, man. I I understand what you’re trying to do, but as it goes down and goes along, that’s where it gets iffy and gets smoky and cloudy. Well, and and go, you know, Dave just mentioned the the expiring contracts, uh, so many of them on this Bulls 15man roster are coming into this year. And I think that if somebody was were to play devil’s advocate to say AK does have a vision and a plan, the big part of it that he has more frequently mentioned when talking to the media is the cat flexibility part of this this plan that is part going younger and part cat flexibility. You guys, the Bulls have a plan. You just don’t like it. They are doing what they want to be doing. And like people can say that it’s like baffling or mad maddeningly complacent. They’re doing exactly what they want to do. They’re telling you what they’re doing. They will not tank under any circumstances. They’re not doing that. They’re not rebuilding that way. And they are going to try to overhaul the roster while competing. Do we agree with that? I don’t. No. But some people might. Um, but the idea that like this is a team that just like has no clue what they’re doing, I think is completely misguided. Like they absolutely know what they’re doing. They’re trying to overhaul the roster without doing it through the tanking game. And like I think for the most part, like that’s a like I I get that approach. Um, again, I don’t think it’s going to work necessarily unless you like hit big on mid to late first round picks, which maybe they maybe they will with Madison Noah. Who knows? Um, but I think the more uh the more interesting piece of this is seeing the company that they’re constantly in and thinking about it in terms of where they fall in the greater context of the league. Like you don’t want to be partnered up with the Kings and the Pelicans and the Raptors every year. Like the Wizards are probably going to lap them. The Nets are probably going to lap them because that’s what happens when you accumulate high level talent. So yes, it could not work out for them. They could fall from, you know, one to five in the draft every year. That happens. I’m not saying like the tanking game is a surefire thing, but like the the idea that like the Bulls don’t have a plan I think is just completely wrong. It’s just that people aren’t trying to hear it because they disagree with it. Joey, at the very least, would you say that they know what they’re doing or are we able to say that they sometimes get caught in between in terms of asset management? Look no further than a very poor job managing their assets, right? For sure. Like they bring guys in, but the reason they’re doing that is because they don’t want to be bad. think Vuch is a perfect example. One, I think we heard reporting this summer that there weren’t really any real offers for Vu last year at the deadline. Like I think the Warriors had some interest, but I don’t think a real offer was ever made. We talked about it the other day. If you are completely against tanking, you will not lose intentionally under any circumstances. Even if you do want to get something for Vu, like what are you going to get that like helps you win now? Like teams who are trying to add a player like Vu are doing that because they want to be good. That means they don’t want to give up other good players. They want to give up draft picks. You’re probably not going to get a first round pick, a good first for Vuch. So you’re going to have to take a second. But the Bulls aren’t really interested in that, especially when it doesn’t help them win today. So that’s like the the trade-off is usually bad teams are willing to trade away good players for picks. That’s how the market dynamics work. That’s the exchange. It’s like you’re paying cash for goods, right? In this situation, the bulls are trying to like do goods for goods, and that’s not how the marketplace works. I I would make a slight correction. Good for good singular because it’s it’s only one player for one player swap trades that AK is going to be doing. It’s not goods plural. Yeah. Uh uh people in the chat chiming in. Trick Daddy Dex uh saying that uh clarity is ticket sales and profits. Yeah. So if you’re not talking from a Bull’s front office perspective, but from a Bull’s ownership perspective, that is the very clear vision. They would be in the clearest topest tier of these clarity index rankings because we all know that that is that’s what I’m saying accurate. And I think I think it’s very clear what they’re trying to do, right? And what they’re trying to do again is like trying to like I don’t think they’re like opposed to being good. I just think that they’re not willing to do it the you know traditional way of like building through the draft by bottoming out every year. So, I think that they’re kind of hoping to do what they did in like 2007208, which was like have a good young core of teams, make some playoffs, try to be competitive, and then maybe you get lucky one year in the draft and you jump up and you get Derrick Rose and now you’re on your way. So, maybe that’s like the model that they’re trying to replicate. I don’t again I like the lottery has changed. I don’t know that you can really count on that, but the idea of like they they just want to be mediocre, I I’m not sure I really buy that either. I just don’t think they’re willing to do the hard decisions over multiple years in the way that some people would want. And that’s that’s where I’m lost at right there. That part you say right there, the hard decisions. Cuz for me, that’s the clarity. And that’s why I get that’s where I get lost at. Well, I called it smoke and fog. And I didn’t know I I get what they want to do. That’s why I said like I see the horse head. Yeah. And the stick figure. I know what they want to do. But like when I’m looking at it in the sense and I see all these guys who are one-year deals and I don’t know who you want to get rid of. I don’t know who you want to keep. I don’t know who you believe in. When you have a Kobe White, when you have a IO Dumu, and I know you’ve got those guys, I don’t know which one you want to keep. I don’t know if you’re going to hold on to either. Like, it’s still a lot of confusion and smoke around it. Whereas, I know where you are at at the top as far as the players are concerned that you want to hold on to. Yeah, that I’m thinking bigger picture. Those are like more of the details of like because think about the last team that they put together. They got completely, you know, handcuffed by the big contracts. You were above the cap. You were below the tax. You had Lonzo Balls $20 million that you’re effectively dead money. Yeah. You’re paying Zach a max contract. Uh Demar’s your best player. You can’t trade him. Vu is, you know, having a rough time. You’re not going to trade him. Like they just there wasn’t anything they could do. And that’s why we applauded the Javon Carter signing because it was like spending the, you know, half the mid-level exception on a player that could come in and help that group. So I think that’s always been the agenda is like how do we get to a point of competitiveness within the context of our core and now I think the the agenda has pushed more towards flexibility which is what Matt was alluding to of like how do we prevent ourselves from getting trapped like that again so that we can’t do anything for three years and so I think they’re going to try to be competitive while they do that. Uh, real quick before we go to bake fish, our guy in the chat, what are they trying to win? If they’re not building to win a championship, then they have already lost. Preach the believer. The issue with the plan is it’s mostly set up to be mid. And Mark saying, I hear you go. The question is, do we really trust this organization with their plan of a plan and what’s the chance it doesn’t work and sets us back more years of competing? You guys just disagree with the plan, but the plan is there, right? And and and setting back. No, they just stay in the fun house. They’re always in the fun house with the crazy mirrors and sometimes it’s, you know, entertaining. Sometimes it’s a playing tournament victory on your home floor and other times it’s nightmare and horrors and you’re trapped in the fun house. You can’t find the exit. They’re fake doors. There’s mirrors all over the place. You’re looking at 18 different versions of yourself. You feel like you’re taking crazy pills. It doesn’t mean sitting back. It just means you’re always living in the crazy fun house. Happy Halloween, everybody. Uh, let’s knock out two two last ads. We’ll come back and dive into ESPN’s simulation of the 2526 season. Hit the like button. 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Jial Bulls. Uh, a little bit longer on this Wednesday afternoon. Next thing on the agenda, more ESPN fun. They simulated the entire 25 26 season and they did so like hundreds of times uh and picked one that had some fun results and they gave you like a kind of like month not quite month by month but progression of like okay what happened in the NBA cup the Bulls did not advance in the NBA cup so nothing changed there. Then they give you like check-ins on the standings of the both East and Western Conference at various points throughout the season. Um, in this simulation done by ESPN, the Bulls at the Christmas Day slate of games are seven and 18. 11 games under 500. Okay, in late December. Okay, wait for it. At the All-Star break, come on. They’re 26 and 29. Let’s go, baby. Just three. Come back is on. Just three games under, you know. Sometimes two, sometimes four. Always three. Always three. That’s like 19 and 11. Is that what they’re saying? Oh, AK’s going to bookmark that. So, they so they go on a they go they go on their their usual March Madness tear and then the standings entering April uh 2026 in the simulation. You ready for it? Okay. The Bulls 38 and 37. Oh, holding on to that, you guessed it, ninth seed in the East. All locked up. But at a game above 500, when’s the last time the Bulls were above 500 that late in the season? It’s been 83 years. Was it the 2122 season? Had to have been. Had to have been. And then at the conclusion of the regular season, all 82 games counted and accounted for. The Bulls do finish ninth in the East at 41 and 41. Oh, right there, baby. So, that’s progress. You know what that means? It means Yes, that’s right. Playing for Pete is happening, y’all. But this is where things change from the norm. That’s right. The Cavs and Heat face each other in the 78 game. That’s right. The Cleveland Cavaliers in the simulation are in the playin tournament. Who’s injured? Like all of them. All of them. I guess all of the Cavaliers. All of them. Okay. Uh the Cavs take down the Heat. Meanwhile, in the 910 game, the Bulls beat the Gapyear Celtics to keep their season alive. And you know what that means? It’s Bulls Heat part four for a chance to go to the actual playoffs. But in this simulation, the Bulls are triumphant. They take down the Heap. They vanquish the beast. I hate this. Don’t you love it, Dave? To take on the Benero Magic, the number one seed. Oh, that’s that would be the reward. Uh, yes. The reward is a gentleman sweep. They lose to the magic in five in this simulation. All right. In the simulation, but but they get there. They get a win too, which like and like to me it’s just silly simulation. ESPN ran out all of their gadgets and their algorithms and whatever and they did a full season simulation hundreds of times and picked a random one that they found to have interesting results. Right. As a Bulls fan, these are interesting results because they’re different. But I think it raises the interesting and like based in reality question of if this were the actual results of this season, how as a Bulls fan would you feel? Would you call this a season a success if they go back to the playing tournament for the four straight year, but this time they beat the team that they have lost to three straight years in said tournament and then go get some playoff experience and get, you know, beat up pretty convincingly by the number one overall seed in the East four games to one. Is it a success? Yes. I think I agree. I think I agree with you in that sense. Yeah, that yes, I I said I can’t remember the one of our many things that we did where it was to fill in the blank and it was uh the Bulls have to do this to get back to the playoffs and I said beat the Heat. Like that’s what you have to do. Like they are always going to be standing in your way. So, beating them on the fourth time that you’re playing them and you finally vanquished vanquish the beast, as Matt so eloquently put, you get an opportunity to do that, then yes, that is success. And you get a playoff win on top of that team you’re not expected to beat at all. That’s that’s success. Honestly, it is. And depending on how they do it, too. Like, who is leading them to this? Yes. Is is Josh leading them to this? Is Mattis heavily involved in this? What is Kobe doing in this scenario? What is IO doing? Like all of that is stuff I would like to know. But yeah, just looking at it numbers wise, if you finish 500 and you avoid that, no team has ever uh won four straight years of 30 38 or 40 wins for four straight year four straight years in the NBA. You avoid that also as well. It’s a success. That is a successful season. That’s how you can put it on paper as a successful season. How you feel about it could be up to interpretation. Tune in to this show to find out how we interpret it. Well, and and goat, as we were just talking in the previous segment about like clarity of vision and purpose. If these were the results this year, would you feel like that that validates what this team’s clarity of purpose is and a substantial step forward in trying to achieve whatever those goals are? I think it would kind of depend on how things happened. um like it is a resultsoriented league and the the like outcome does matter but like if it’s because Modest just like turns into a superstar like that’s it probably doesn’t like you know give you much in the way of telling you how to build the roster compared to like if Kobe drags him there. So, you know, I think either way, like the the young guys in the roster are going to have to play well. But if it’s like BC, you know, shot 48% on threes again and clearly is not like a big part of the thing, I would have more questions. But really, like those are two kind of separate things to me is like one, how does the season go? Can you get to the playoffs? And two, is that goal good enough? Is there is there anything beyond that? And how do you get there? So to me, I don’t think it would really change because I’d still, if it were me, want to be thinking about ways to improve based on that. And my concern would be they finally, you know, exercised their demons. They finally beat the Heat. They finally made the playoffs. Is that good enough? Are we going to just bring everybody back and do it again? That would to me not be a success. That would be spinning your wheels. Yeah. Uh Mark’s in the chat saying, “A success will be making the playoffs and win or lose, have a competitive first round, win or exit, meaning whoever they face first round, compete, win or lose.” And then the kicker to this fun ESPN simulation that our pal Steven Hooker just pointed out in the chat. What up, Stephen? Uh the Western Conference, let’s take a look at those results, uh Joey, because the young upstart Portland Trailblazers in this sim, okay, snagged the eighth spot in the West. Oh, on regular season records, they go to the playin tournament and win. Come on. Which means for Bulls fans, it that long owed pick would finally actually be conveyed and as a first round pick, not a second, which is what will happen in reality if it does not convey by 2028. Huzzah. Let’s go Blazers. I want that pick. Let’s go Blazers in the sim. Way to go in real life. Let’s freaking go Blazers. Man, you guys could do it. You can do it. I’ve always believed in you. So, yeah, that would be great. I I see the Kings uh over the Timberwolves is it’s interesting. Yeah. To me also as well, like having them win. Just like the Cavs ending up in the playing tournament in the East. You’re like, wait, what what’s Minnesota doing in the playing tournament out west? Now, I can see it cuz out west is so stacked. Like, I’m not I’m not shocked at them being there. I’m shocked at the Kings getting that win uh like that cuz that means they’re going on the road, right? Uh to do that. But if that’s what happens, man, and the attackery from Zachary is like Zachary, then yeah. So in this sim, the six Western Conference teams that lock in a playoff spot, starting at one and going to six, Warriors at 63 wins, okay, OKC in the two seed, Nuggets three, Grizz 4, Clips 5, Rocket six. You might say, where are the Los Angeles Lakers? They should not be. Perhaps my low-key favorite part about this particular ESPN sim. 13th in the West, 10 games under 500. Oh yeah. 36 and 46. Yeah, this is Matt’s day. I would love to watch I mean like I don’t want like I got nothing against Luca. I like Luka. He’s great, man. He’s a Laker now. He’s great. He crossed over. Sorry, man. Screw that team. Like, oh man, I’m so As a Bulls fan, I have to find other things that make me happy. Yeah, because I know my team ain’t winning a chip this year. Okay, fair. And probably not even putting up forth a competitive a playoff showing of any kind. I I hope so. I’m not saying it’s impossible. I’m saying it’s very unlikely. It’s not impossible. I got to find my joy elsewhere. And getting shot in Florida from the Lakers failing. Yeah, that’s a great one. Yeah. Where’s uh Grayson Allen at this year? Uh he’s not in Phoenix, still, is he? I don’t think he end up in Utah. Is he in hell? He is still in Phoenix. Yeah, he is still in Phoenix. Oh, that’s a shame. I thought maybe the river sticks by this point. I was I was just going to give you whatever joy you were going to have with that. Yep. Still there. Still in Phoenix. So yeah, Phoenix isn’t great. No, you know they’re the Bulls could beat Phoenix this year. Shout out PHNX. Hey, what up B? You know what I mean? Yeah. Um so again like that that is interesting to think playin again. Yeah. But if they win their way out of it this time, just generally like how how should and could Bulls fans feel? Again, like like Will said and like I was alluding to, it’s it’s all about how it looks and how they do it. That’s what’s going to be vitally important to this as far as my joy uh is concerned. I’ll be happy they won regardless. But my joy, it would be like ecstatic if it’s because Modis did his thing. If Giddy did his thing, if the guys I know are going to be here, uh, did if IO was a huge part of that. I mean, all of that will will matter. Kobe was a part of that, that will matter. But as far as like if, like you said, if V is going crazy, you know what I’m saying? And doing his thing, it’s like, okay, like I don’t know, guys. I don’t know. But but yeah, I’ll be happy regardless if they win because this is my team. And much like my stance on f the Lakers always, f the Heat always. So if if we do get that four pete rematch against Miami in the playin and they win, as much as most of my brain will be rolling my eyes out the back of my head like, “Okay, cool. Let’s go to the first round and get crushed. What are we accomplishing here?” I there would be a part of my Bulls fan heart that’s like, “Yeah, suck it, Miami.” What if they beat the Heat in the first playing game and then lose in the second one and still don’t make the playoffs? Oh god, there it is. Now that’s Would that be a success? That’s That’s like the real Would that be Oh, so like if if it’s Bulls Heat in the 910 and then they go to the play loser of 78 and then lose and then lose. Honestly, that would put some people in a pretzel and that’s not success. Tiny tiny sliver of a silver lining there. You beat the Heat in the playing tournament, get that revenge, but you’re still going to the NBA draft lottery, baby. Yeah, it’s his day. Shout out to the That’s going to do it for today. We will be back tomorrow night for live postgame following the Bulls preseason finale. They are back home taking on the Minnesota Timberwolves. Goat will be at the UC reporting from that one. Follow him will_gota to get all of his Bulls thoughts, updates, and reporting. Follow him uh and his reading at all.com. Become a diehard so you can read all of it. The very best of it. Uh Big Dave is a bow sports. W I’m Bulls Peek. We are CSU Bulls. Shout out to King Joey under controls. Have a great night, Bulls Nation. Hit the like button for crying out loud and we will see you tomorrow night. See you. Be good. Love y’all, man. [Applause] [Music]

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The CHGO Bulls crew react to the latest national NBA projection columns for the 2025-26 NBA season. ESPN just released their rankings of each team by their “Big 3” – their three most important players this season and beyond. ESPN also dropped a simulation of the entire season, which saw the Bulls beating Miami in the Play In Tournament! Plus, The Ringer’s second annual “Clarity Index” is out, and the Bulls are in the Fun-House Mirror category. Is Arturas Karnisovas’ vision for Bulls success clearer or better than how the outside-Chicago media sees it? Peck, Big Dave and Will Gottlieb discuss them all. Plus, a few more thoughts from the loss to Denver, and Jonas Valanciunas has high praise for Matas Buzelis!

0:00 START
3:30 Assessing Noa Essengue’s Preseason
17:55 Top NBA Trios
25:45 Build around Matas?
33:30 Bulls rank in the Clarity Index
46:30 ESPN Playoff Simulations

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