Should the Saints trade Chris Olave?

Should the Saints trade Chris Olave?

From Fox 8 Sports, this is the Overtime Podcast. From the GF Coast studios in New Orleans, it’s the Fox 8 Overtime podcast. I’m your host Sean Fazan riding shotgun as he does each and every podcast is Andre Johnson. Do not forget the juniors. Very important. Remember the JR at the end of the name. Before we get into today’s content, be sure to like, to share, to rate, to review. If you are watching us on YouTube, do us a favor. Hit that subscribe button, get the bell notification when we drop that fire content. And also, hello GF Coast Sports and Entertainment Network. Glad you have found us here and we hope you stay here. Um, we have a lot of things here on this wonderful network known as the GF Coast Sports and Entertainment Network, including a lot a lot a lot of Saints Talk, which is why you are here today on the Fox 8 Overtime podcast on a Wednesday, another big day, hump day, and it’s really the first day when you talk about the preparation for a gameweek. Saints versus Bears. Traveling. I will be traveling to the Windy City on Sunday. Could be a messy game, by the way. Check the weather today. We’ll see if it changes at all, but it could be a rainy day in the 50s. So, it could be a messy day. Saints versus Bears. We get into that. Uh, but also address some some interesting topics that um have been floating out there with the Saints organization. Just what happens when you’re in the midst of a rebuild and you’re one and five. We’re going to get into all that, but first things first, how you feeling? I’m feeling good. You know, shout out to you mentioned the GF Coast Sports and Entertainment Network. Hello to the Pelicans fans, too, because now they’ve got our podcast airing right before the Pelicans game. I had people reaching out that were watching the Pelicans game like, “Hey, I see you on the podcast.” So, that’s cool. Shout out to the 200 people who commented on our last uh podcast. You know, it was interesting looking at the rat pack, going back and forth with some of the people who aren’t in the rat pack. some Saints fans who are on the line and it’s very fun to watch. I love, you know, interacting with you guys and when you guys, you know, whether you like or don’t like what we say, it gets the conversation going regardless. But this podcast is not about the Rat Pack. Yeah, we got to take a break because we we’ve talked a lot about that. We got to take a break from that. This time we’re talking about one of the guys who help him do who helps him do what he does. His wide receiver, his number one wide receiver, Chris Olive, who has not taken the jump heading into this season that maybe many expected him to do in a new system in a new offense with a full-time quarterback and Spencer Rattler. So, as we sit here about a third of the way through the NFL season, is it time to pull the trigger and trade Chris Olive? All right, first things first. We we we struck a nerve with that last podcast. That was a that had a lot of comments on some people don’t like hearing the truth on the on the um on the uh Monday pod. Um and one of the reasons why, you know, it it is an interesting debate is because of other factors, Chris Olive being one of them. Chris Olive told me and Juan Caninc Kaid we talked to him I think it was the first day of camp maybe the second day of camp u because at that point he had really looked good just in terms of just physically looked good um he told us I want to be a one I want to be a one I want to prove that I can be a one well through six games and three seasons so three seasons and six games this is year four for him obviously six game in he’s not a one he’s not a one um and I don’t know if he’s ever going to be a one here. The Saints need a one, not a highend two or a mid two. The Saints need a one. Other teams around the NFL could be looking for a quality two. I can think of a couple off the top of my head. The New England Patriots, the Buffalo Bills, uh uh Pittsburgh Steels, whoever. And then you can you can name off certain teams that are going to be in a championship run or trying to be contender status. They’re they’re pushing all their chips to the center of the table for this to be their year. And they’re going to look for deals to help get them over the edge, over the finish line. So, the question is, should the Saints trade Chris Olive? I think they already have been open for business. I think they will continue to be open for business. And I think Chris Olive, when you look at the list of potential tradable assets the Saints currently have. Now, what is a tradable asset? A, it’s an asset someone else will want. That’s the most important. And B, what that will net you fair value in return. Love him or hate him, Chris Lav is probably going to be at the top of that list. You can throw in Pete Werner, you can throw in Rasheed Shahed. You’re gonna want a young guy probably and you’re gonna want a guy um that can help you get over the edge. You’re probably looking for um you know a team that’s like I said going to make a playoff run. Chris Olive’s numbers this year are interesting because he’s up in some ways and significantly down in others. He’s up in targets. He’s got 64 targets on the season, second most in the NFL. We talked about this before the show. Yet only 39 receptions. The chemistry between he and Spencer rather simply is not there. It’s not there. And how long do you keep repping it out or forcing it if it is not there? So, he’s a guy that like it or not, he’s not on the same page with his quarterback. I don’t know whose fault that is. I I’m sure it’s a little bit of both when you talk about the NFL. But, we do know he had multiple opportunities to make plays this past week and wasn’t able to do so. multiple opportunities throughout the season to make plays to show he can be a one and he has not consistently been able to do so despite the fact that his quarterback has sometimes misfired when it’s come to him in chances to make big plays. I think of a couple inbreakers in the end zone uh in weeks two and weeks three back-to-back weeks uh with Rattler and Chris Olive. So, what does that lead you? Well, to me that leads you to the path of you know he’s not a one, you need a one. Kell Moore didn’t draft him. um and you’re in the midst of a rebuild. Yes, make the call. Make the deal. The question becomes, like all these deals, what could you realistically get in return? So, I did a little research. I didn’t go crazy with it, but I did do a little research in past wide receiver trades. And do you know the most reasonable comp to Chris Olive is? Might be a familiar name. He is a familiar name. Brandon Cooks. When the Saints traded him back in 2017 after the 2016 season, both were very young. Olave is 25. I think Cooks was 24 at that point. Both had played three seasons with the Saints. Obviously, this is year number four for Olve. But in the previous three, Brandon Cooks had two thousand yard receiving uh yard seasons. Olave has had two of three thousand yard receiving seasons. And in the third one, both guys got hurt in that respective season. Brandon Cooks, you look back on this deal, it a good deal for the Saints. got a it was Brandon Cooks in a four for a one and a three. That one and three turned out to be Ryan Ramch and Trey Hendrickson. So that is the most realistic comp in terms of age. I don’t know if back then you would have considered Brandon Cooks a one. Felt like his reputation around the NFL was probably a little bit better than perhaps Chris Olive is right now, but I don’t know if he ever materialized into a true one throughout his career. Brand Cooks I’m talking about. Um, I guess I bring that up to say I would love to get a one and three for Chris Olive. I don’t think that’s happening. I I I really don’t think that’s going to happen. But I don’t think you just say, you know what, we’re going to take what we can get for him right now. I don’t think he’s reached that point. So, what would be the most realistic um compensation package for a guy like Chris Olivia? To me, it’s got to be a two. It’s got to be a two. I would love a I would love a one for him. get the equal value back that you you traded for him. Uh but I would love at least a two. Um I think a three is probably maybe if you throw another pick in like you had with Marshon Latimore last year, uh three and a four or three and a five, maybe I would consider that. Um but to me, I would want at least a two for Chris Olive. You can now, you know, uh use those assets, those draft picks to do whatever you got to do to go and get your one uh next year. Um but I think the bottom line is simply this. Chris Olive has tried and tried and tried and now I think he’s truly in a system where I don’t think it truly highlights his skill set. He has 64 um targets because it is a lot of short stuff and he is not a run after catch guy. He’s not. They’re throwing a lot of short stuff to hoping they you know get these guys in space and turn and run. And Olive, this is back to his Ohio State general state days. He’s not a yak guy. He is a smooth route. We’re on a go up and catch the ball type guy, but he’s not going to get you much after the catch. That’s why he’s averaging like nine yards a catch right now. That’s like running back numbers. Yeah. So Chris Olive is a guy that I think has value that I think could still if you kept him here this year the way it’s going if he stayed healthy you look back at the season they his numbers are respectable but given where he’s at given the fact you got the fifth year option next year you still have another year to play with it. Um, but right now is the time if you got a deal for a team that’s a little I wouldn’t say desperate, but urgent to get to that next level for this season’s playoff run like Washington was a season ago, I say you absolutely pull the trigger on that deal. So, should they trade Chris Olive? Yes. But if they get fair value for him, what say you? Not only is it time to trade Chris Olive, you could argue the time to trade Chris Olive was at the start of the season. back then you may have been able to finesse a first round draft pick for Chris Olive. Now that the league is kind of clearly seeing what he is, it’s going to be hard to get a first for Chris Olive. But I mean, you could argue coming into this season that Chris Olive had more to prove than anybody else on the roster. The only other person in that conversation might have been Spencer Ratler, but Chris Olive is the one with a contract extension coming up. Whether it’s the Saints that gives it to him or somebody else, Chris Olive is the one that’s want to want to get paid. You said it. He told you and Juan Concincaid that he wants to be a one. You know what ones are getting paid? A lot. 40 million a year, 35 million a year. He’s looking at DK Metaf’s contract. He’s looking at Garrett Wilson’s contract. He’s looking at comparable guys to him. He’s looking at the deal that Jackson Smith and Jigba, a college teammate of his, is going to get soon. A wide receiver won for his team. Chris Olive is going to want that kind of money, but he’s falling flat. He’s not putting up that kind of production. Cresolve is on pace right now through 17 games for 182 targets. By far a careerhigh for 111 catches, by far a careerhigh. It would have been fourth in the NFL in receptions last year, tied with Trey McBride. And 969 yards. That is insane. Career highs and targets and catches he’s on pace for. And he won’t even touch a thousand yards at this rate. That is crazy. He’s at a career low in yards per route, yards per target, yards per reception. And it’s not even that close to what he’s done previously. And then he told you guys before this season, he wanted to be a one. You know what he told us before the last season? That he worked on his yak yards after catch. Have you seen that in his game since then? No. I mean, there’s a lot of catching and down he goes. and he told us before this season, I remember I was in the locker room and we when we talked to him about it, he said he was working on stretching the field as a deep target. Well, you’re averaging career lows in yards per route, yards per target, yards per reception. And that’s not all on him. You could put that on the offensive play calling with Kell Moore. You could put that in Spencer Rattler because we’ve broken down what Spencer Rattler’s numbers are when it comes to throwing the deep pass. But, I mean, right now, he leads the team in drops. He had some costly drops last game against New England, which could have turned that game and changed the result. He’s 62nd in average receptions among wide receivers. Like, so Chris Olive’s big thing coming out of Ohio State was that he was a killer route runner. Yeah. He’s not he’s not even getting a whole lot of separation in these short plays, you know? So, as I sit here, I look at Chris Olive and I say, “What does he excel in? Is there one thing that Chris Olive does that’s better than his constituents? I don’t know if there is right now. And we had the conversation when we were at the old studio with the brick behind us. Is Chris Olive a top 20 receiver in the league? Back then it was arguable. Right now I don’t think you can argue at all that he’s a top 20 guy in the league. I think he’s clearly settled in with the twos around the Jaylen Waddles, the Devonte Smiths, the George Pickins of the world. And I would put those guys ahead of him right now because you saw CD Lamb in Dallas get hurt. George Pickkins has to step up into that number one role and George Pickins has been one of the best receivers in the league so far this year. Chris Olive has been in the number one role for I mean his entire career here essentially and I mean what has he become if you look at the elite guys in this league? If I’m in Cincinnati, fourth and nine game on the line where am I looking? Jamar Chase of course Minnesota where am I looking Justin Jefferson if I’m in Seattle where am I looking where is Jackson Smith and Jigba if I’m in LA Devonte I know Devonte Adams is there but I’m finding Puka Nua the Saints are fourth and nine game on the line is it a guarantee that they’re going to Chris your might your best look might be somewhere with Alvin Chimera so I mean it’s just when I look at a one the standards that I have for a wide receiver one in this league Chris Olive has not met those so Yeah, I’m looking to trade him. I think the best you can hope for in this case is try to get a second rounder out of him. Maybe a second in a sixth, second in a seventh. You know, they say I don’t Chris Olive is not trash, but the saying goes, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Maybe in a different system, with a different quarterback, with a different offensive mind, they can get the most out of Chris Ave, but it just doesn’t seem like it’s happening here. And look, but you know, we we’re we’re we’re giving our reasons why it’s good for the Saints to to to shed a player like Chris Olivia given their current state of things, but make no mistake about it, they got to be careful how they play that because you can’t trash him so much that he’s not marketable. And the truth of the matter is, you go back and look at those 2000 yard receiving seasons, he had veteran quarterbacks. Y he had I never got we never got the feeling that he and Derek Carr got along and yet he was productive with Derek Carr. Um 2022 we had was it Andy Dalton was he was a rookie there but Andy Dalton was the quarterback most of the season. Jamus was the quarterback at some point that season. So that’s the cell. The cell is find him a playoff contender with a veteran quarterback where he doesn’t have to he’s going to get favorable looks from a from a defensive standpoint. Um, and he’s g perhaps they can utilize him in better ways than uh what the current set of circumstances dictate with the Saints because you are regardless if you love or hate Rattler, you are dealing with a young quarterback and the and the head coach is catering to his young quarterback with certain things he’s calling making sure he gets a lot of completions. Well, what does that entail? A lot of short throws, a lot of underneath. So, he is sacrificing a little bit. That’s not necessarily what my receivers do best, but it’s the best way to put my young quarterback in rhythm to at least give us a chance to win games. And I can understand that thinking. But where that goes arai is when you have a guy an asset like Olive who you are expecting more out of and they’re not able to do so. A is his consistency has been an issue. B they’re asking to run certain things that he’s just I mean anybody would can tell you he’s not a run after catch guy. So if you’re going to throw three yard slants to him and let and hope he you know bust it for 60, it’s just not going to happen. If you’re going to run sort of a you know an eight and out and he catches and hope he’s going to turn and run, it’s not going to happen. If you don’t run like a kind of a eight and hook, he’s probably going to catch it and fall down. It’s usually what he does. So, it’s a little bit of everything, which is why he is number one on the list to be traded in my opinion, which is why you look for teams that need a two because that’s who he is and no one’s going to and let that team deal with the contract extension that comes after because whoever is going to deal for Crystal Lave is going to have to, you know, deal with that reality as well. That’s another factor that the Saints won’t have to deal with and the other team will have to factor in, which will obviously have an impact on compensation. But the final jury, the final selection for me or the final verdict for me is yes. But I got to get a two. If it’s a three, it better be multiple. It better be more than more than just a third round pick. It’s a third and a fourth. I mean, I look right here. This is obvious. This just a couple things I looked up just for p recent uh trades. When AJ Brown went to Tennessee, I understand AJ Brown is not he’s a he’s a one and Olave is not. He got a first and a third. Tennessee got when Cooks went from New England to the Rams, he got traded a bunch of times. Y it was Cooks in a four for a first and a sixth. That’s interesting. Diggs from Houston from the Bills to Houston. The Bills got Houston got Diggs a six and a future five. and the Bills got a second round pick and but Diggs was obviously a true one at that point and not quite as young as Olave, a little more established in his career. So, um what what’s interesting though is when you talk about Olive and the other players that could potentially be tradable, I don’t think you could trade Olive and Shahed. I think it’s Olive or Shahed because Shahed’s name is starting to really pop up as well. In fact, I’m looking on on X earlier. All of a sudden, you know, trending for you is Shahed. I start looking his I mean, and it’s for all the kind of negativity you kind of hear around Olive, it’s total opposite for Shahed. And he’s exceeded expectations. He’s exceeded expectations. He’s a true I think he’s perfectly fine with just being a a deep ball guy. Um, and if you can net anything for Shahed based off the fact that you didn’t spend draft capital on him, that would be a win for the Saints as well. So these are the discussions that are happening right now and these are the discussions that happen when your team is in a rebuild. It frustrates fans because rebuilds suck because you got to be bad. But this is what it entails and in most team most cases this is what they have to do before they can get good again. And hopefully this is the start of that process. And I just I can’t see a future right now as Kell Moore as a head coach with the current wide receiver core as it is. It’s just it’s to me it’s just it’s too similar and they’re just collectively they’re just not productive enough. Yeah. You know, and it’s almost like two guys on not this set but our previous set sadden said that going into the draft the Saints maybe would want to consider drafting a receiver. Of course, moments like this maybe it would come in handy. But you one thing I want to say I don’t want Spencer Rattler to be the scapegoat for Chris Ol because when we were having these conversations previously the retort to us saying Chris Lave isn’t the one was well look at the quarterbacks he’s playing with. He’s had you know these guys and he’s he’s got Spencer Rattler right now. I watched Malik Neighbors go for a crazy season last year with the combination of Daniel Jones, not Indiana Jones, the one in Indiana, the Daniel Jones that didn’t have it figured out and Tommy DeVito. We watched M. Jones take Brian Thomas Jr. and make him a star. Speaking of M. Jones, two weeks ago, I watched M. Jones go for 180 something yards and a touchdown to Kendrick Bourne. That’s a better game than Olive has had in like three seasons, you know. So, some the elite receivers are quarterback proof no matter who your quarterback. We saw Gino Smith, who might be the worst quarterback in the league right now, make Jackson Smith and Jigba look like a star in Seattle. Those elite guys are quarterback proof that no matter who they’re with, they’re going to find a way to contribute to the game and get their numbers. Chris Olive, he hasn’t done that so far. So, I’m with you. I think it’s time to make that move. I would like a two for him. If you can get a one, miracle. I’m not thinking. I’m taking it. If I can get a two, great. If I can get a three, I’d need like, you know, a three and a four. So I would want Marshall Latimore type deal with three to four. You get send him that in a six maybe. But you never know. There was a team out here willing to trade a fourth round pick for Devon Vele just to not play him. I mean hey there might be a team crazy enough to give you a first for Rattler. Idea of the calendar November not I’m sorry. November 4th is a trade deadline. And you know, unlike in years past where, you know, when the Saints um mo for most of the time that I’ve been covering the team, they’ve been buyers. They’ve been they’ve been, you know, hunting for that player to get them over the edge because, you know, they’ve been contenders for most of the time that, you know, I’ve been covering the team. But can you be aggressive in the opposite direction? Can you pick up the phone? Hey, you want a lav? like, hey, like start planting a seed a little bit because I think I I I I think that’s what you have to do if you want to, you know, I don’t think you can just kind of sit back and wait for the offers to come in. I think you there needs to be a little bit of an aggressive nature if this is is indeed the direction you want to go. And it sure feels like you’re really forcing it when it comes to Rattler and Olive. Was it seemed like they like each other, but Olave had six incompletions last week and four of them went to uh to Olave. Yeah. And you saw the disparity between re 64 targets usually net you 52 53 catches. It’s 39. That’s a major disparity. It’s just not there. So we’ll see what happens with that. Um it’s a big decision for sure for Mickey Lumis and Kell Moore to make moving forward. And speaking of Kell Moore, we want to pivot to Kell Moore because we saw something interesting happen earlier this week. Brian Callahan, the head coach for the Tennessee Titans. He was fired after about a season and a half. Brian Callahan, who took over a team with a young quarterback in Will Levice, who he didn’t draft. They get the number one overall pick. They draft a rookie in Cam Ward. But, you know, when you have a coach for a team like that, sometimes you see the patience to let them figure it out. Not in Tennessee. So, when you shift it from Tennessee to New Orleans, no, Kell Moore is not on the hot seat. No, his job is not in danger. that’s not where we’re going. But when you see something like that, does the urgency kind of pick up? Well, I think it’s a reality that sets in and I think it is a it is an NFL moment, not for long moment. And we are all not for long when it comes to the NFL. Um, it just that’s just the way it is. You know, the Saints, a notoriously patient organization, you know, got rid of a family last year after two and a half seasons in Dennis Allen. Dennis Allen is a is a family guy. Dennis Allen is is part of the family. He was a Saints guy. Uh, and they said enough was enough after two uh, not even two and a half full seasons. What was it? Well, it might have been two and a half. It was what, week eight, week nine, something like two and seven. Yeah. So, week nine. And that was obviously Mrs. Benson’s call uh, to do that deal. I don’t we still don’t It’s water on the bridge now. We still don’t know how on board the general manager was, but my point was that’s how quickly things can change. And he is under no pressure right now. And in fact, I think given the roster that they have, I think his approach is probably the correct one based off the talent just in terms of giving this team a chance to stay competitive and win games. They just need a better roster. We understand that. And he hasn’t done anything to other than that first week where he kept those timeouts timeouts in his pocket where you’re like, that’s odd. That that’s weird. There was no reason for that. Kicking field goals down uh 30 week. Yeah. Then that maybe you can you can you can you know split hairs with that. But I do think though, you know, when they hired Brian Callahan last season, they didn’t think by week six he was going to be gone, especially with the number one overall pick. So what it what it goes to show you is while this year is the grace period, he’s not getting fired. You can’t just hope it all comes together. I mean, there has to be an urgency here. And maybe by the second year, there has to be even more growth. Now, I don’t even think the Saints would go as quickly as the Tennessee Titans and fire a guy after 23 games unless it was an abject just failure and disaster. And from what you’re hearing out of the reports of Tennessee, things got really dysfunctional behind the scenes. Um, but I do think it’s a it’s a good reality check of you don’t have forever. Not in today’s NFL. You got to figure out what you want. Um, and you got to figure out the you got to identify the pieces that you need to get to where you want to get to. Whether that’s quarterback, whether that’s receiver, whether that’s edge pass rusher, whether that’s assistant coaches, you have to identify it quickly and quickly get there. Cuz this this rebuild, no one wants an extra long rebuild. They want to be one and done with it and get back on the right track to get back on maybe like a next year you’re eight or nine win team and maybe you’re a playoff team after that or maybe it gets even faster next year. But I wanted to bring that up because um 23 games is an incredibly short tenure. Now we’ve seen shorter Frank Reich with Carolina, Urban Meyer, Jacksonville. Um but this was a that was a pretty disastrous hire for Tennessee. And if you’re Kell Moore, you do not want to go down that route obviously. Yeah. You know, and I think so far Kell Moore has met or you could argue even exceeded expectations. I mean, you expected them when we did the schedule to go two and four through this point of the year. I expected them to be one and five through this point of the year and they are. You look at the games, they were competitive against Arizona, competitive against San Fran. They were competitive against the Buffalo Bills. They were competitive against the New England Patriots. They beat the Giants. I mean, if you think Spencer, there are some people who consider Spencer Radler a franchise quarterback. Regardless of what you consider him, he is playing better this year than he did last year. That is not debatable. Kell Moore was able to bring that out of him in ways that Clint Kubak, you know, wasn’t able to bring that out of him. So, you got to give him some props there, you know. But I I do think Kell Moore has earned more time for sure. You just never know. I think about Geron Mayo, a Patriots guy who you thought would get a lot of time, but he got fired after year one. The Callahan situation is interesting because I think there was a change in the front office. So, you know, not the coach that they were bought into to where Mickey hired this guy. So, they’re going to be, you know, a little more beholden to Kell Moore than they would if that situation wasn’t the case. But I think Kell Moore is doing a good job, but ultimately wins and losses, they matter. Yeah, that’s it. And you know, moral victories are moral victories, but they need some real wins. Need to start adding those up hopefully soon. Um, all right, we got to get out of here. That is Andre Johnson Jr. I am Sean Fazan. Thank you for watching. We will catch you guys next time on Overtime.

Sean Fazende and Andre Johnson Jr break down #Saints receiver Chris Olave’s season, and whether the team should consider trading him or extending his contract