Frank Nazar Shines, Bedard’s Next Deal, & CBA Chaos ft. Mark Lazerus & Anton Thun | The Sheet
[Music] People are awesome. People are awful. But people are awesome. I want to file a couple of things here under the category of why people are awesome. Okay, so before we go to the air, Chris Mason, like love Chris Mason. Loved him as a goalie. Love him as a broadcaster. So he puts up a video. Mace does. We got to get Mace on the show by the way. Note to Zach. Um so Chris Mason tweets out, I know, but I want to get him this year again. Like just cuz you have someone once like this the way media works like people’s thoughts evolve and they change perspectives on things and new events occur and so that’s why it’s always good to have you know people come on more than once because people people have new perspectives on things and current events current events change. My bad. I can’t believe you said that. People are awesome. Okay, by the way sidebar let’s go down a side word here with Zach. You know, there’s dumb and then there’s hockey dumb. Zach played hockey for a lot of years. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Compose yourself. We got some serious guests on the show here today, so put on a jacket and everything. Um, so Chris Mason tweets out, head coach of the Montreal Canadians, Martis St. Louie running the stairs during Pred’s morning skate. And it’s a video of Marty St. Louie, you know, running the stairs, not unlike we’ve seen other hockey players, perhaps most notably in the early 90s when Joerger used to do that with a weight fest in Pittsburgh and everybody went, he’s ruining he’s ruining it for everybody else. Now we’ll all have to be in shape. But I thought, okay, harmless little video. That’s awesome. St. Louis a machine. I remember being at the team orient team Canada orientation camp when they did that ball hockey thing in Calgary some years ago on a on a on a panel with Doug Mlan and Marty St. and Louise was sitting beside me and I thought that I had seen the biggest quads of a hockey player when um the first time I was in the Pittsburgh Penguins dressing room during the ringside with Montreal and Pittsburgh and I’m like am I the same species as Crosby? Holy smokes, look at those quads. And then Marty St. Louis sat next to me in these little shorts that he was wearing as they were doing the ball hockey. I thought, “Okay, uh Marty San Louise going to give uh Crosby a run for his money for quads.” Anyhow, oh, by the way, side note, biggest I don’t know about I don’t know about you, but the biggest calves I’ve ever seen on a hockey player, Tory Krug. Just as a side note, maybe we’ll do a a show on hockey body parts one day. Anyway, I digress. So, I put up the tweet, just a simple retweet. Uh, St. Louis is a machine. And I figured it’d be like a lot of Habs fans going like, “Yeah, there’s our coach. Our tough our coach is tougher than your coach. He can still play.” Blah blah blah blah blah. Daniel from Bleedblue. Wonder where he’s from. He’s going upstairs, not climbing the side of the Empire State Building. Let’s all take a deep breath. But then Bobby says he’s looking for a PTO. Smiley face to try to smooth everything out. Anyhow, on that lovely note, people are awesome and people are awful all at the same time. Uh, welcome to the program. This is the sheet for Thursday, October the 16th. Um, coming up on the program, a number of special guests and we’ll talk a lot about the Blackhawks today and we’ll talk a lot about NHL contracts today. And I just want to remind everybody that as everybody predicted last night, both the Chicago Blackhawks and the Buffalo Sabres each put up eight spots in their games, commanding victories with the Hawks. You look at it and say, “All right, it’s building block for this, you know, redeveloping team, this rebuilding team.” For the Buffalo Sabres, you’re left wondering, is this the beginning of something new or is this the dead cat bounce that we’ve seen before with a number of different teams? Anywh who, uh, coming up on the program today, the blueprint is powered by FanDuel. Make every moment more with North America’s number one sports book, FanDuel. And coming up on the program today, I mentioned a couple of really special guests and very much looking forward to talking to Mark Lazarus of the Athletic, the Chicago him and Scotty P. This the the Chicago Blackhawks power rankings uh as they’ve listed on the Athletic today. He will be dropping by the program shortly. Anton Thun, former NHL player agent, um, who’s been through like, you know, the CBA and the the negotiating wars, um, for a number of years and specifically, you know, contract negotiations. And I I’m curious what what Anton thinks of this recent phenomena of hockey players when they do their contracts keeping in the back of their mind that somehow they’re co-general managers of a team because that’s very much the way that it feels outside of Carrill Capri off mind you. Um that’s kind of the way it feels right now. Curious Anton’s thoughts on that one because you know he worked pre salary cap and of course post salary cap in the NHL. We will talk about the Blackhawks. We will talk about player contracts. Um, but before we get there, uh, this news from Bruce Gerio and let me just grab and and like Bruce has been around the Ottawa Senators forever. He is, you know, one of, you know, the the authoritative voices and and has been for a long time uh, about the the Ottawa Senators both on the ice and off the ice. And here’s a tweet that he put out uh, just before 12:00 Eastern. would expect an update on Brady Kachchuck today and would be more surprised if he doesn’t have surgery. This is on the handwrist. Tangled up with Roman Yosi the other night. League executives have told me timeline is likely eight weeks if that’s the case. Gh. one sucks for the SS and uh they could have used him last night against the Buffalo Sabres who look like you know the Sabres of 75 with the French connection against the Ottawa Senators. Sucks for him but also sucks for the NHL. It’s never a good time when you know both Kachchuck brothers are out of the game but here we are. You know, a lot of people have remarked that, you know, it shouldn’t be any surprise that both Kachchuck are injured considering how they play. And I think there’s some legit legitimacy to that one, but I don’t think the Brady Kachchuck injury. Well, first of all, I know it’s not from anything egregious by Roman Yosi. It’s just one of those hockey things that happened. But two months if Gary O’s um executives that he spoke to um are right. Two months uh for Brady Kachchuck if he has a surgery. That is no bueno for the Ottawa Senators there. And as I mentioned, you know, massive win last night for the Buffalo Sabres. We’re going to get on the Hawks page here with LZ in a second. Massive win um for the Buffalo Sabres yesterday. Um was really glad to hear it. As you’ve heard me say numerous times, I don’t enjoy watching anybody go through this. I don’t want to make light of it. I don’t want to, you know, uh, pour gasoline on it. You report what’s there and you talk about what’s in front of you, maybe speculate what the the future means for the Buffalo Sabres, but I don’t think anyone really outside of like a really malicious and and mean-spirited hockey fan. And there are some of them, you know, are really enjoying what the Buffalo Sabres fans, say nothing of the organization, right from the owner Terry Pagula all the way down to the peanut vendors. Um, uh, no one’s really enjoying what’s happening, uh, to everybody right now in Buffalo. So, it was good to see them win a game at home in as commanding fashion as was yesterday. 84 against the Ottawa Senators. Zucker with a pair, Jack Quinn with a pair, uh Ryan Mloud with a pair. the the the Jack Quinn is important here for the Buffalo Sabres because internally in in Buffalo and I don’t think this is wrong thinking although I don’t I don’t know that everybody’s on the same page about Jack Quinn necessarily in the in the organization. Um, but there is a feeling that a healthy Jack Quinn bouncing back can compensate for the loss of was it 29 goals that the team lost when JJ Prurka was traded to the Utah Mammoth. Zack Benson a good sign. Welcome back. Three assists yesterday for the Buffalo Sabres. Uh, next opponent the Florida Panthers. So, as eyes yesterday was on Dylan Cousins, uh, eyes will be very much on Sam Reinhardt. And make no mistake about it, the Panthers have been bounced around here a little bit lately and they’re not too thrilled about that. We talked yesterday with Rick Tocket uh about the game against the the Philadelphia Flyers and the Florida Panthers. Panthers certainly sour about that one. Uh we’ll see what happens when they face off against the Buffalo Sabres. Another thing we should remark upon, something interesting has happened here. Not only have the Detroit Red Wings won three games in a row, four to one yesterday over the affforementioned Florida Panthers, um Mason Appleton looks fantastic in that Mason Raymond spot. Um and somehow again falling under the category of a it’s early and b everybody predicted this, right? Cam Talbot is the go-to net minder here right now for the Detroit Red Wings. a save percentage of 932 after four games to John Gibson’s, am I reading this correctly, Zach? 6:15 in his one game this year against the Montreal Canadians. The solution was in the house the whole time. But nonetheless, um, great on the Detroit Red Wings. Um, you know, that’s that that’s one of the teams where and first of all, it’s been too long. Okay. Like I I know like there was there was a certain time there where it’s like nobody’s going to feel no one’s going to feel bad for the Detroit Red Wings because of how many consecutive years they were in the postseason and Ken Holland every year would trade everybody to make sure they got to the postseason. He talked about, you know, the streak and we have to keep it going and we’re going to scotch first round pick and we’re going to send out prospects just to keep the just to keep the playoff streak going. That catches up to you after a while. And so nobody was going to feel bad for the Detroit Red Wings. But now you’re saying to yourself, “Okay, it’s time. It’s time that the arena that we used to say was a new arena, it’s no longer a new arena. It’s just an arena now that hasn’t had any playoff games in it.” So, good to see a good start by the Detroit Red Wings. And good to see a real fun start here. 22 and one by the Chicago Blackhawks. Uh, 83 over the St. Louis Blues yesterday. We are going to talk about the solo si here, party of one, Frank Nazar, um, with our next guest. You read him in the athletic. You can hear him on the athletic podcast where he does excellent work. Uh he is Mark Lazarus and he joins me now. Let’s just get the first one out of the way here. Laz the solo si yesterday by by Frank Nazar. Like first of all he’s been as you’ve documented fantastic this season. No, there’s going to come a point where the conversation and maybe it already has changes from that’s way too much money for someone who hasn’t played enough NHL games to man that’s one of the best value contracts this side of Carl Marchenko and Alexi Prous. This kid is flat out fantastic and we saw it again last night. But what did you make of the solo CI after the goal? That whole goal was just a pure hit of Frank Nazar, right? You got the blinding speed coming down the ice. He blows by two defenders. You’ve got him the skill to take off that shot. That’s not an easy shot to get off. You got the recklessness of him crashing into Joel Hoffer. And then you got the pure comedy of Frank Naser where he just gets up out of the scrum and just starts kind of dancing around by himself and taunting the fans. I mean, look, we we I’m always we do this too much in Chicago and I’m as guilty of it as anybody. We’re always looking for analoges to the Cup years, but Frank Nazar has that Patrick Kane gene in him where he’s a performer, right? He’s got this inherent confidence. He’s got a little bit of irreverence. He’s not too big for the moment. The moment’s not too big for him, excuse me. And he just seems to revel in that stardom. Connor Bard is going to be the face of this team for the next 10-15 years. But Frank Nazar is going to be the guy who’s the most fun to watch and the guy who’s having the most fun out there. Is that going to be the uh so is he going to be the uh the cane to Baddard’s Taves or am I really stretching things here? Because there is a serious tone to Conor Baddard. I’m not saying that he’s Jonathan Taves. Actually, am I going to compare anyone to Jonath Taves in the NHL? It’s probably Mlin Celibbrini. But as far as like temperament and spirit go, is that kind of what we’re looking at? I think so. I mean I mean it’s it’s you can understand why Conor Bernard is a little more guarded maybe than most players are. He’s been interviewed every day since he was like 14 years old. The hype he faced, Frank Nazar didn’t face that. Frank Nazar is just a guy who went to college and now he’s in the NHL and he’s kind of more of a, you know, quote unquote normal person because he hasn’t lived under that microscope the way that Baddard is. Baddard’s got a big personality. You can see it when like the cameras aren’t on. Every now and then, you know, you can draw a good quote out of him. I like when he gets combative, when he takes like an issue with your question, he’s not afraid to like kind of dispute you. Uh there’s plenty of personality there, but he is a very serious young player who has been under a serious microscope for a long time. So that it is it’s it’s the Kane and Tasall and there’s more guys coming. We don’t know who Anton Fondell is going to be. We don’t know who Roman cancer is going to be. I mean there’s more and more coming but right now it’s Bard and Nazar one two in your in your lineup and you got to like that if you’re a Hawks fan. You know, the the thing about Betard that’s fascinating to me is, you know, a lot of players, you know, going through junior, you know, in a lot of ways when when it comes to media interviews or or being grilled, a lot of them get a free pass, right? It’s like, ah, they’re they’re kids, but I I remember Bard specifically, and it was that last year when he played with the the last year with the Regina Pats, and you know, there’s always a speculation, oh, he’s going to he’s going to want to get traded to a Memorial Cup contender, a team that can win the Western Hockey League Championship. How can they get them to Cam Loops? and he kept saying and and no one would believe him and John Paddock who was you know running the team would always say look he he does not want to go and I don’t want to trade him but everywhere Bard went he was asked about leaving Regina and coming out of all of it even though you know his his team never got anywhere close to the Western Hockey League Championships the one thing that I kept saying to myself Mark was that’s got to toughen his skin a little bit and that’s going to be good for the next level and because he’s going to be going to it. We don’t know where he’s going to end up. He’s going to be going to a bottom feeding team that’s rebuilding. And as you well know, if you’re going to be on one of those teams, you need thick skin. You need crocodile skin if you’re going to survive. And I can only think that even though it was horrible for like a 16, 17 year old to go through that at the time, it kind of toughened him up a little bit. Like when he arrived, he seemed like a little bit like, “Okay, I’ve already got scars from how of what happened in the in the Western League. I’m I’m ready for for what you guys can throw at me here in the media in Chicago a little bit. He he was a little defensive early on I felt and I can understand that. But uh you know it’s funny because like his rookie year as as a 18-year-old is one of the youngest I think he was the 13th youngest player in NHL history because he’s a July birthday. He talked almost every single day after every practice, every morning skate, every game that he, you know, played a big role in. He talked. Remember Austin Matthews was 19 and the Maple Leafs really sheltered him that front year. That’s how it normally goes. But Conor Bard was that was Conor Bard was Yeah, that was 100% Lamarillo. There there wasn’t a Lululem there in Chicago. And no one in the media is like is like um uh oh god uh Red Fischer of the Montreal Gazette who would refuse to talk to rookies. That was his rule. The only rookie he spoke to was Patrick Wall in ‘ 86. But that was it. Like Red’s like, “You’re a rookie. I’m not talking to you.” Nobody gets that grace anymore, Laz. Sorry. Continue your story. No, the the Hawks put him right out there. Like like from day one, he was the focus of every Twitter post and every Instagram post and every interview, every jersey they sold. It’s been bard from day one. They have not sheltered him at all. And he is more than capable of handling that. I think that’s clear by now. Um, okay. So, I I love this power rankings that you and Scotty put together and number one Frank Nazar. And what a perfect time to for this to come out as as you mentioned in the in the piece as well. Uh, for those that don’t know him, well, first of all, like last year at the World Championships, if you if you don’t watch the World Championships, I highly encourage people to always have a peak. He was a star. Was it 12 12 points? I think Nazar had spec just spectacular, right? I remember team can uh hockey Canada took Jonathan Taves, you know, before he debuted with Chicago to the World Championships as well to sort of acclimatize him uh in that sort of competitive environment. But for those that don’t know Frank Nazar and are just learning about him for the first time, fans from outside of Chicago because people in Chicago know all about him. What should they know about him because a big night? Well, he’s the guy the he he’s the guy the Blackhawks traded Kirby Doc for a former number three overall pick. They traded to Montreal on draft day during tank mode to to take him 13th overall uh the same year they took Korchinsky and Sam Renzel in the first round. So, he’s been a big piece of this project for a long time now. Uh he came into the league for the first time at the very end of of of two years ago. He played about 40 50 games last year. Um you know he came up around December and he instantly was an impact player but he couldn’t score, couldn’t finish. He was all speed and you know all feet no hands which we’ve seen guys like that come through the Blackhawk system before. Your Victor Stalbergs, your your Vinnie Henestro’s. But then at the end of the year all of a sudden the puck started going. He had this run of like nine straight games with breakaways where he didn’t score on them and he was like losing his mind over it. And then all of a sudden the puck started going in the last like three or four weeks of the season. He looked like a star, absolute star, the best player on the team. And then he goes and and and follows that up with the Worlds where he’s team USA’s leading scorer on on route to a championship which is just does wonders for his confidence. And he’s just he’s just this guy who’s got this easy easy confidence about him. He’s always just been like, I know I belong. I’ll be fine. It’s not arrogant. He’s just very comfortable in his own skin. He’s very comfortable in an NHL locker room. He’s comfortable with the start. If you saw the TNT broadcast last night, they interviewed both. Yeah, they interviewed both he and Baddard at the same time. And Nazar was sitting in front. Baddard was in the back and Nazar is out there, you know, dropping quips and and curses and stuff. Just he’s so comfortable in that role. He’s 21 years old. This is all pretty new to him, but he’s really good at just the being a star aspect of, you know. I’m so glad that you mentioned, you know, the idea of speed and and no finish and red line to red line, great player, super fast, but can’t get the puck over the red line. Um, there’s another play on the Chicago Blackhawks that always had that reputation. And I used to always make the joke that, you know, McKay is rushing for Grabner. You remember Michael Grabbner who was like the fastest guy, but like get get the little round black thing over the red line. Holy smokes. But all of a sudden now I McKay is a dare we say significant piece of this Chicago Blackhawks team. Mark, he was the best player on the team last year. I would I mean without question in my mind he was the most reliable consistent two-way player on the team last year. And it’s funny because like Vancouver has become like this like an AHL team for the Blackhawks. They just take on their cap dumps and turn them into great players. Jason Dickinson was getting selky votes two years ago. He was a cap dump from Vancouver. And now McKay, you’re right, he is a core piece of this team now. He is. They’re not going to let this guy go. He’s a great skater. He’s a fabulous defensive player. He’s so good in his own end. And last year, the puck started going in for him. He had 20 goals last year. He’s got three goals in the last two games. He plays on the third line. He never complains. He kills penalties. Every now and then when they need a bump, they put him on Baddar’s line and they work well together. Doesn’t matter where you slot him in the lineup. He’s been incredibly effective. And it’s just always amazing to me when guys struggle so much in one place and then just show up somewhere else on a worse team with worse structure and all kinds of, you know, chaos going on and they just thrive. You know, one of the things that I’ve always I want to sort of dovetail this into into Spencer Knight. Um, one of the things you always sort of wonder about too, um, if they didn’t make that trade, would we still be talking about the Chicago Blackhawks this way? obviously that they’d still have Seth Jones. Not that they not that they need another giant on the back end. I mean, everyone on this team on the blue like 6’6 or 6 foot seven, 6’8, massive back there. Um, but the team wouldn’t have Spencer Knight if that deal and there were a lot of people that you can’t trade Seth Jones. I don’t care what Dallas is offering. They’re not not going to be able to take the Capid in Florida, etc. If they didn’t make that deal, would we still be talking about the Hawks the same way right now? or was that crucial for this part of the rebuild? Uh, it was cru. I mean, first of all, Seth Jones was good for the Blackhawks. People seem to forget that he was overpaid, but he was good. Like, he was a reliable, solid player for them. But if Seth Jones is on this team taking 24 minutes a night, then Sam Renzel’s not getting 24 minutes a night. And every everyone gets knocked down a bunch and the the the rebuild is kind of stalled a little bit. But yeah, if you don’t have Spencer Knight, you probably have Arvid Soder Bloom and maybe like maybe Peter Morazzic’s back, maybe Drew KSO is getting a chance. But what Spencer Knight has done is he’s really come in and stabilized things. He’s he’s he doesn’t have bad nights, right? He doesn’t give up soft goals. There’s that there’s nights where they’re going to lose five to2 because the defense is just atrocious. They have four or five guys 23 or younger on the blue line every night. It’s going to happen. But Spencer Knight doesn’t really screw up out there. He’s just reliable. And that’s, you know, I talked to Paul Maurice about this when I was in Florida at the beginning of the year and he just put it perfectly where when you have Spencer Knight, it makes the gap that much closer, right? Like the talent gap, he kind of draws it in a little bit more. A a close game becomes a win. A blowout becomes a close loss. And that’s something the Blackhawks haven’t had since really since Cory Crawford and Robin Leonard were the duo. Mark Andre Flurry didn’t even bring that. They’ve been kind of just cycling through guys. and Peter Morazzic did yman’s work here behind an awful awful team that was actively trying to lose in the front office. But uh what what Spencer Knight is bringing it’s been four or five years since they’ve had here in Chicago. Okay, let me throw a dart here with you because I I had I had this conversation at the combine with an agent. We’re trying to figure out where this is going to land. Now, it may just all be different this year based on on performance, but stop me when you think I’m at the right number for Connor Baddard and his second contract. 10 million 10 and a half 11. Yeah, I I think 10 and a half. I feel like I should start yodelling now on the Price is Right. 11 11 guy going up the hill. Yeah. I I I I feel it’s going to wind up like like if I’m if I’m Connor Badard, I’m not saying he’s going to do this. No, I want to take like a bridge. I want to go old school bridge deal and take like a three-year deal, get that 10. I’m just saying what I would do. I mean, I think all these guys should be doing that. He should take 10 10 and a half million and then by the time that contract runs out, he’s going to be a I have no doubt that Connor Bard is going to be a superstar in this league. He has shown it time and time again. There’s I know everyone there’s there’s there’s a rejection of him. People had him shoved down their throats at a young age. and they want to see him fail and they want to elevate Celibbrini. They’re both great. They’re both going to be superstars. And if I’m Bard, I want to be getting that $20 million contract three or four years from now. But look, they will pay him whatever he wants. He is the franchise. He is the marketable face of this franchise. He is the most talented player on the team. But it’s going to be at least eight figures. But the way the cap is going, why would you ever take an eight-year deal? Why would you Nathan McKinnon yourself? There were years there where Nathan McKinnon was the best player on the planet. He was making $6 million a year because it took four or five years for him to become a superstar. If that’s the path that Baddard is on, and that’s entirely plausible, then why would you take an eight-year deal now? That’s just me. He probably will cuz he’s a hockey player, but I wouldn’t do that. You take a three-year deal and then you get the big cash in a few years. I’ll go back to the loyalty thing with Badard. Like that’s always been him going going back to like the the first time I talked to anyone in his camp playing in the Western hockey. The one thing about Badard is as highly skilled as he is, he’s equally loyal. Like that’s the guy that wouldn’t leave the Regina pads. Like he’s like, “Do you want to go to Cam Loops or host the Memorial Cup?” Nope. I’m going to get there in Regina. And it was that kind of loyalty that we all said is going to serve him very well on a rebuilding team because it’s going to be a lot of a lot of painful nights. Um so here be let me let me get ahead ahead of myself again. Um up the gut right now. Vard Nazar when Anton Fondell shows up. Who goes to the wing here? Cuz I don’t think one of these two are going to be third line. Thank you very much. I actually I asked Frank Nazar that direct question last week. I said, you know, with you know, you know that there’s more. It’s not just Fondell. There’s Sasha B. There’s Merrick Vanacker. I mean, they’ve got they had 11 first round picks in the last four years. That’s what I hate tanking. I think it was gross what the Blackhawks did, but this is why you do it, right? Um, and I asked Nar, I’m like, “Would you rather be like on Connor Bernard’s wing or driving your own line when these guys come in?” He’s like, “I see myself as a center.” He’s like, “I can play anywhere.” I I I pride myself in my ability to do that, but he sees himself as a center. The Hawks see him as a center. I think Fondell goes to Baddard’s wing at the end of this year when he signs after the Swedish League season ends. I’m sure he’ll come out here for a few games. I think they put him on Baddard’s wing and see what happens because the Baddard could be the center, but Fondell can still do the two-way play. I mean, we’ve seen that before where the center isn’t really the center. It could be one of those kinds of situations and we’re all going towards positionless hockey anyway, so all of it’s probably moved. But the interesting point there, and you just mentioned this on on your last pod, too. It’s like uh Frankie Nazar just took Conor Bard’s wingers from from last season. Thanks. I’ll I’ll take those. Tyler Batusi and and and Teavo Terrain were signed when when Kyle Davidson couldn’t land Jake Gensel. He quote unquote settled for Bertusi and Terrainan. kind of overpaid a little bit for each of them. Maybe give him a little one more year than normal. Those are supposed to be Conor Badar’s linemates. Those guys are locked into Nazar’s winger. That is the second line and that’s not changing anytime soon. Uh, real quick, I’ve got like 30 seconds left with you. Uh, and we haven’t even touched the back end, although we’ve mentioned, you know, Renzel who’s been who’s been fantastic. Um, who’s impressed you the most on that back end? Everybody’s a giant where everyone’s a massive. It’s the giantest of them all. It’s Louis Cre. He was like 6’8. He was supposed to be the he was supposed to and he’s like he’s a huge guy. He was supposed to be like the the number seven defenseman just cuz he’s not waiver exempt anymore and he was going to be a guy who can scratch. But they’re going 117 every night because creier has been really good. He’s got great reach. He he you know someone hit Kaden Goully hit Frank Nazar and Creier pounced him. Jeff Blast will love that. Lu Krevier is making him he’s covering himself out a role here. Never a bad idea to protect the young superstar investment for the team. Uh wise move Louie. wise move. Uh Mark, listen, the uh the power rankings are awesome. You and Scotty with a great job doing a great job as well. Continued success uh at the athletic um the reads are great and the podcast is fantastic. We’ll catch up soon. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate it. There he is. Uh the great Mark Lazarus joining us here on the program. Uh you can read him in the Athletic uh and you can listen to him on the Athletic Hockey Show podcast, which is excellent. Uh that was an interesting game last night. I’m not sure, Zach, if you got uh if you if you checked that one out at all. Um there was probably like there’s probably too much conversation around the solo celebration. The one thing where I will give because normally you want player to stay in the scrum and and stay in the the the fight so to speak. He was pulled off by the official and sort of told to stay out of what was happening even though you know Terra Vinan was getting dragged. Who was it? Was it neighbors that was was dragging him? Neighbors kicked the whole thing off. No, I think it was Jake Neighbors that grabbed uh that grabbed Nazar and then started dragging Terrain around. But nonetheless, um this is a Blackhawks team that’s like it’s it’s it’s different. Sure, they’re one year older. There’s um there’s more excitement in their games this year. They are starting to see some results. I know Kobe Cohen doesn’t want to hear it. you he was going on about this the other day on on Morning Cup of Hockey, but like you’re starting to see some tiny incremental gains. Like they’ve been in all their games and we saw this early. We’ve seen this like all season long. As short as this season has been so far, a week and a half, there haven’t been those cringe moments that you saw with the Blackhawks last season or the season before. Um I don’t know how many games they’re going to win. I don’t think they’re going to make the playoffs and and I also don’t think they’re going to get Gavin McKenna, but at the same time, this is a Chicago Blackhawks team that slowly but surely here is becoming one of the more intriguing teams to watch because you can see what this thing when it’s finally actualized is going to be like. And the one thing, and Mark touched on this too, the one thing about it is it seems as if, if we can say this, there’s too many young players. Like, where are you going to fit all these guys? Like Kyle Davidson and his scouting staff, like bravo. They’ve they’ve really hit it here with a lot of these players. Um, not just drafting I should mention too, but the Seth Jones trade is already paying off in, you know, in paying off big time with Spencer Knight in net. It’s a and I think Blill has been and will continue to be an excellent coach, head coach with Chicago in his second goal round as the uh as as the bench boss of an NHL team. Um, it’s fun. Like, am I allowed to say the Blackhawks are fun to watch? Like, that was a fun game last night against the St. Louis Blues. Now, every time, and I’m a from a I’m from a certain vintage where every time I see Chicago and St. Louis get together, all I can think about is the Norris division where if you had 60 points, you made the playoffs. Think about that for a sec. I know they’re the best game or fewer games, but 60 points and you would make the playoffs in in that division, but all those games took like four, four and a half hours and each team had like four or five different sluggers on it and the games were forever. Uh, but whenever I see St. Louis and Chicago. That great rivalry that’s kind of been lost and you hope we can get it back. Um like there have been a few rivalries that I think have been lost over the years. The New York Rangers and the Boston Bruins a great rivalry certainly late 60s early 70s. Uh that’s been lost in the modern NHL. Montreal Detroit uh were a great rivalry for a lot of years. You hope that as those two teams continuous to ascend in their uh in their rebuild that we start to see, you know, those embers get burning all over again. I mean, Montreal and Detroit have been tied in with a couple of major major events outside of, you know, competing for Stanley Cups in the in the 50s and 60s. Um, the Rashard riot that was a Detroit Montreal game and the infamous Patrick Wah night. uh at the forum. That was a game between the Montreal Canadiens and the Detroit Red Wings. That used to be um one of the big rivalries in the NHL. And as both those two teams ascend, and it’s looking good right now early for both, and both teams are are really fun to watch, too. You hope that that once lost rivalry in the NHL can finally come back. So, we look forward to that. Um a couple of things still uh on the program today. We are standing by for Anton Thun, who you have uh seen and heard on the program before. Uh you’re going to be hearing from him in a couple of seconds. He’s in transit today, but he’s being generous with his time. So, we’re standing by for Anton. And a couple of things to talk about with him. Uh and the the big one is the nature of the contracts that we’re seeing right now. And perhaps, and we got into this a little bit yesterday on the show, why they’re being signed now, and why they’re all sort of being signed at the same time, and did it just need one domino? I mean, Anton has been at this for a lot of years, um, doing contracts with players with with M5, uh, the agency that, uh, that he had with Kent Hughes, now the general manager of the Montreal Canadians. Um, but why now, right? Like it seems as if maybe you look at it and say like, where’s the pressure point? Maybe there’s just a comfort point for both sides right now, this early in the season. I’m curious about Anton’s thoughts on on why this is happening uh at this point and the other one which is everybody has a different opinion on it and all are valid because it’s just your opinion. I have mine, you have yours, Anton will have his as well. Um players that while they negotiate contracts have in the back of their head, I’m also the general manager here and I’m going to help my team manage the cap. I know I’ve gone on about this a lot and I think maybe me and Kobe Cohen might be the only two here at Daily Face Off that are really on the same page about it, but I’m not so sure. And I don’t know how it happened. I don’t know how it happened that players went from accepting a salary cap to then taking the next step and accepting a new title on their business card, which is assistant general manager, and assist the team uh that’s negotiating with them. um to try to manage their salary cap. The only one that hasn’t tried to help a team manage their salary cap is Carl Capri off. And he might be the best player in the league right now. And when you talk about how important he is to the Minnesota Wild by the very definition of what the MVP is, he has been that MVP. Um the definition of the heart trophy is MVP of the league. He has been that definition for the Minnesota Wild. And that’s why I I know we all sort of look sideways at it when Bill Garren was saying like, “Oh yeah, I I sleep well at night.” He really does mean that much to the uh to to the Minnesota Wild. He’s uh an exceptional player and it’s no surprise that um they find themselves in the place that they are right now in their division and he finds his place uh top of the goal uh goal scoring and points um race. This segment before we get to Anton is a presentation of Bower and the Bower Pulse. The first Bower Stick to feature their latest kickpoint innovation. Powered by two distinct energy zones in the shaft, the stick is designed to adapt to your game with loadability and precision of both a mid kick, that’s more for defenders, shots from the point, and the explosive, unexpected release of a low kick. That’s for your wingers. Catch goalenders by surprise with a quick shot they’ll never see coming. Or make dynamic plays in the zone that will have defenders scrambling. Combine all that with the new raised grip ink on the shaft and Pulse will stay in your hands while you put the game in your hands. Exclusive to Bower Hockey, the Pulse contains ultra lightweight and rigid boron fiber material which creates a high strengthtoe ratio and optimizes energy storage and increases reactivity. Featured on 40 flex thicks and above, the Bower Pulse launches October 17th. For more information, check out bower.com. I feel like I could have just sort of read that off the top of my mind because this is the stick that both my kids have been talking about nonstop. It officially launches tomorrow. With that, we’ll bring aboard Anton, former NHL player agent, who joins me now to talk about all things contract. But before we get before we get there with Anton, first of all, good afternoon, Anton. Thanks so much for for joining me here today. Um, what was the when you were playing hockey or when you got in the agency business, do you remember what the the big stick of the day was? Was it like the Sherwood 5030 PMP or was it something else? Do you recall going way back what your first real big fancy stick was? We’re having problems getting Anton on the phone here. What a great question to open up. Maybe he’s just like so disgusted by the question he’s he’s hung up. We’ll try to get Anton back. Um but yeah, very much looking forward to that release by our friends at Bower and uh like to officially welcome them here as a sponsor uh of the program. Um so Anton is standing by. We’ll get Anton wired up. Uh he’s very busy and he’s joining us on route somewhere. Um in the meantime, we will remind you uh of games around the NHL this evening uh which include the Rangers and the Maple Leafs. This one’s in Toronto, so the Rangers are allowed to score, right? Uh we’ll talk more about this coming uh coming up in the the latter parts of the show today. Uh the Nashville Predators and the Montreal Canadians, as I mentioned off the top of the show, Marty St. Louis running the stairs and at the at the um Bell Center. Uh to which a lot of people said, “Calm down. He’s just running the stairs.” Uh the Seattle Kraken facing off against the Ottawa Senators. Uh Senators, you know, not looking great news for Brady Kachchuck. Uh and the hand injury. Um Seattle Kraken have kind of been one of the bright spots uh in their division so far this season with a record of 20 and one. Uh Joey Decord has early on distinguished himself as one of the top net minders in the NHL and I can assure you that Travis Green will not be thrilled at yesterday’s result and will expect something much different today or tonight rather uh at the Canadian Tire Center as a Seattle Kraken face off against the Ottawa Senators. The Florida Panthers are in a world of bad themselves right now dropping games to the Philadelphia Flyers and last night to the Detroit Red Wings. They’ll face off against the New Jersey Devils, Jets and Flyers, ABS and Blue Jackets. Oilers and the Islanders here. Islanders, by the way, the only team without a win so far this season. Vancouver Dallas. Boston takes on the Vegas Golden Knights. The Battle of Cassidy. Uh Carolina Hurricanes and the Anaheim Ducks. Pittsburgh Penguins take on the Los Angeles Kings. It is an 11ame schedule around the NHL. Uh I believe we have Anton back. Uh Anton, how are you? Thanks so much for joining me today. I’m I’m great, Jeeoff. How are you? Good. Um, pleasure was all mine. I was just sort of asking you, do you recall the first big hockey stick, like big name hockey stick that you uh that you ever had? I I honestly don’t. Um, quite honestly, I think it was a big tree trunk. And uh and and and it was made of wood for sure. Obviously has a tree trunk. And I can tell you when I the first year I played rep hockey in my hometown of Thorald, I hated the stick that I got. And I tried breaking it over the net multiple times and the damn thing wouldn’t break. You know, it it it’s so funny, too, cuz I uh at a at a at a charity game years ago, not that I’m any measure of a good hockey player, but this was this was up in in uh in actually was in in Yukon and we didn’t bring our sticks and so someone just went out to the local Canadian Tire and bunch bought a bunch of wood sticks for us to use. And Anton, I hadn’t used a wood stick in forever. And I all I can remember was someone fired a pass to me and it hit my blade and it didn’t bounce. It didn’t wobble. The wood blade just sort of absorbed it. And I had just forgotten like Anton how nice it felt to absorb a pass with a wooden blade. I keep saying this to my kids like guys you got to you got to try like a wooden stick. And not a chance Anton are kids going anywhere near wooden sticks. But man when that puck hit the blade it really was a great feeling. a natural feeling. Yeah. And and it felt real good. Okay. So, here’s here’s what I wanted to talk to you about today. I mean, you’re the you’re the veteran of a lot of these discussions, at times arguments, at times wars, um between teams and players over contracts. And one of the things that we’ve been talking about going back to Capri off/MCDavid, which seem to be the two touchstones because both contracts are at loggerheads philosophically. Somewhere along the way after accepting a salary cap in 2005, players have also accepted a new responsibility and that is assistant general manager of hockey teams. Like somehow it’s their responsibility to help with the salary cap of their teams. When you look at what Connor signed for, what Jack Eel signed for, um, Lane Hudson with the Montreal Canadians coming in quote unquote undervalue, as someone who’s done this for a long time, what went through your mind? Uh, disappointing in all in all honesty. And listen, I think I when I say disappointing, I I I I’m talking about the philosophy that you just described where players have um developed a belief system that has been created by management and and quite honestly has um probably permeated through the media and the fan base to almost create an obligation on players to to uh not get paid fair market value. Um, and so you saw Capri off. Capri off took big money. Connor took much less than he could have earned. Uh, Lane Hudson, depending on whether you’re speaking on behalf of his agency or on behalf of the club, either took more than he was worth or less than he was worth. And I’ll let the public decide which is right. Um but the notion that the best players in the world in the sport of hockey unlike any other sport in the world or any other business in the world should be held to account to take less than fair market value is nonsensical. It really is. And if the CBA said you can only take 15% rather than 20% then go for 15%. um the maximum is 20% and and for whatever reason players and their agents have decided that it’s not their responsibility to get paid in full. Um and I think that’s foolish. Um and the notion that is I I guess the standard mindset right now in the NHL is well you got to take less so you can build a team. You know what it’s the general manager is getting paid to build a team not you. You’re a player. You’re an employee. And if the general manager can’t do it, then the general manager should get fired or the president should get fired. And I understand why Connor did what he did. Um and um it it’s his absolute right to do so. The fact that the hockey world pressures players to take less than fair market value when if they were a basketball player, a football player, a soccer player, a tennis player, there would be no such pressure is nonsensical. Is there um I don’t want to bias the jury here, so I’m just going to throw it out there. Is there a um is there a sense of with the Conor McDavid contract specifically that Conor McDavid internally feels he has to make up for the failings of his previous two general managers who weren’t able to win with him at that decimal point. Well, I think that’s probably a public perception and that may or may not be Conor’s perception. I I I don’t want to speak for Conor McDavid. I um I I have never represented Connor, so I can’t speak to him, but it’s not only him that seems to have that belief. It’s most players in the league. Um and um they are I I guess prolonging this economic system that um requires the drivers of the league which are the top say 20 players in the league to be underpaid for the benefit of who? A fourthline guy. tell tell the general manager not to pay the fourth line guy four million bucks and uh and and pay me because I’m the guy that’s scoring 120 points a season. So the mistakes of the general managers are are being excused and the elite players are being told they have to accept less. You know one of the um given that all one actually let me let me back up one second. Do you have a theory or a thought on why these players are all signing right now? Like there are some players and and I believe Lane Hudson was one of them that didn’t want this type of conversation around him in the public eye right now. He just wanted the conversation around him to be about hockey. and he he he he didn’t want any part of, you know, being someone who’s gonna get, you know, dragged through um dragged through the the the the media all season long about his contract extension, even though there was no pressure point for Lane Hudson. No pressure point for Lane Hudson until next September, but he just didn’t want that conversation about his contract to be as public as it was, and he wanted to end it. But do you have a do you have an idea of like why it seems like right now and we’re expecting more to happen. All these players seem to be falling or signing rather domino style in the league right now. I I honestly listen um I I I don’t know the answer to that because I’m not as close to these players as I used to be. I I think at the end of the day, the money that’s being offered to players um who have never had money because they’re coming out of, you know, let’s let’s understand the system that exists in the NHL is that the players who are signing their second contracts are truly hitting their first home runs. The majority of other sports don’t have as restrictive a system on signing bonuses and entrylevel uh salaries as hockey does. It’s a very extreme restrictive system where you’re not making that much money when you’re Lane Hudson or Connor Baddard or Adam Fantility or Leo Carlson or any of these star young players. uh Frankie Nazar for example and and so that first contract coming out of the entry level system when somebody’s offering you 50 or 60 or $70 million that’s newfound money in other sports where when you sign your first contract in basketball and you’re guaranteed $20 million already, okay, without having played a game. And the same thing in football and the same thing in baseball. um the second contract is a different negotiation than your first contract, right? And so in hockey it’s it’s very very tempting and the Lane Hudson’s and Frankie Nazar who are signing early are taking the money. Um right now you have others I think I mentioned Fantily Bard um Neil Carlson. Uh, I don’t have I have no idea what their contract negotiation status is right now, but they may not take that money and they may play out the season and see what happens come um at the end of the season and and and in most cases I would recommend that they do that because if you believe in yourself, the market’s just going to change upward. Um, and I I think the other thing that um contrasts Lane Hudson’s situation to some of those others that have not signed yet is as much as Lane Hudson doesn’t want to be the focal point in Montreal and doesn’t want to create noise in Montreal, there’s noise. You know that there was noise all summer long. Okay? And that noise was created by a multiple of factors, including agents, including the team, including Lane’s dad. The only person who didn’t create any noise was Lane. It was Lane. It’s a It’s a great point. Well, you know, one of the things that I’ I’d be curious um of, you know, because we we could be heading here into uh a next summer where everybody has cap space, but there’s no one really to spend the money on at the high end. If you represented player X and let’s say player X is a point per game winger slash center whatever first line um would you be advising your client unless your team offers you just a home run life complete lifech changing deal go to market on July 1st because the big ones are gone we all wondered about 2026 oh Conor McDavid’s going to be available Jack Eel Krell Capri off all these guys are going to be available. Well, they’re not. Would you be advising your client unless you have like something that’s going to give you generational wealth, hang on until July 1st? Yeah. I listen, I I I think at the end of the day, if you are a young talented player that does not have an injury history, um, and all the cards seem to be, you know, turning up aces for you, just play the the market’s going to go up. We’ve already seen um the upper limit go up this year. It’s going to go up next year. It’s going to go up the following year. It’s going to go up by leaps and bounds because there’s a catchup that’s taking place from the uh co season and that catchup is is going to put money in the the players pockets. The teams are going to spend that money. At least most of the teams are going to spend that money. And um bet on yourself. bet on yourself. Um, there’s more than a few guys saying that to themselves right now. Um, Anton, I know you’re is this a really busy day for you and you’ve you’ve squeezed in some time for me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your expertise and we’ll catch up soon. My pleasure, Jeeoff. Take care. All the best to you and your listeners. Thank you, sir. That is, uh, Anton Thun, uh, former NHL player agent, um, who’s been I used to love listing. I’ve mentioned this on the program before, I think, Zach. One of my favorite cuz I I was a died in the wool prime time sports listener. always listen to Bob Macau and when they would do roundts and Anton Thun was on a lot of it would have been around lockout 204 205 just some of the most engaging thoughtful uh from the trenches kind of perspective like Anton was in in the middle of so many of these negotiations and that we we should point out too that agency for those that don’t know that um that he owned um by the name of M5 that was him and Kent Hughes that was then sold to Cortex Um and then Kent ended up going to the Montreal Canadians and then as we pointed out before ended up negotiating against Cortex and Sean Coffee specifically in the Lane Hudson deal which was a real interesting dynamic and I’ve been racking my brain trying to find another example of it um of a mentor negotiating with his mentee which I assure you doesn’t happen very often but there it was and Lane Hudson got his got his deal done. Um, anything uh from Anton or from from Laz that because I haven’t had a chance to talk to you here yet, Zach. Um, anything sort of tickle your chin at all with those two gentlemen? Uh, I mean, back to Laz. Uh, just talking about who plays where when all these guys come in and everybody fitting in into centers and wings is going to Everybody’s a center. Everybody wants to be a center. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, be a really interesting situation to stick handle. How about that? How when have you ever heard a team say, “You know what our problem is? We have too many centers.” I assure you, a team has never said, “We have too many centers.” Or, “We have, oh, we have too many goalies.” What you have too many goals? I’m with you. I know it. There’s wild. That’ll that’ll that’ll be an interesting one. Um, all right. Uh, a couple of things here um on the on the program before I wrap things up for today. I want to be sensitive about your time. Greg Washinsky does return. He says next week he’s only taking one week off. Uh Greg became a dad again. Like Greg, take a couple of weeks off. Like these are the most important moments with you and your young son. Like just take it. But he maintains he’s coming back next week. Said that what the way he just said that. I know what you’re saying. You said he became a dad again. You know what it reminded me of is like when guys say former first overall pick and it’s like you’re always a first overall. The guy was a first overall pick. He is a first overall pick. It’s like he’s still a dad. He became a dad again. Am I just Am I gonna have to go over my pet peeve about slot area? I hear it every single night. I watch hockey like just like you, Zach, and everybody watching and listening right. We all watch hockey every single night. This is my plea to broadcasters. This is my plea to playbyplay people out there. pass this on to them if they don’t hear it from my voice. When I hear slot area, all I think of is, “Oh, you mean the slot? What is the difference?” I know. Between, oh, look, the goalie’s there in the crease area. What? Pass goes back to the blue line area. What? But slot area gets a free pass. Yeah. Yeah. I know. But I I I just came became a dad again. I could think that was the same path that I just went down in my head. I know exactly what you were saying. And I’m not I I’m just being I’m being a dick by bringing that up, but that was what I thought about. I’m like, this is this is Mr. Slot Area. You don’t say that. Dad again. Not only am I Mr. He’s always slot area. I’m Mr. Uh, if they’re all joined together, why are they called apartments? I’m also that guy, too. And I’m also the Yeah, but it’s the same thing as like the drive on the freeway. Drive on the Parkway, park on the driveway. Yeah. The one that really The one that really makes no sense. How is it possible to take an elevator or an escalator down? So, you want a How do you elevate downwards? De elevator. Deescalator. Correct. The escalator would be hilarious. That’s what you got to start calling it now. But like, how is it? The deescalator. Yeah. How is it possible? I’m just take the elevator down. What? By definition, it’s elevating something. I’m going to take the escalator down. You What? I’m with you there. I’m with Dumbest language ever. Dumbest language ever. somehow we’re able to function and make it through a day. But dumb like the the the sounds that we agree to make to one another. Yeah. The the sounds we agree to make to one another could not be stupider. This language, I swear. The worst. Just just the dumbest. All right. Um this one could be this one’s going to be fun here, I think. Okay. So, how are we framing this one with this with the with the stats for for Uber Eats? Let me let me get this one out of the way. So, Crave the Stats, okay, which is really going to sort of I think morph into Crave the Stories. But here we go. Crave the Stats or as my kids would say, Crave the Snacks is a presentation of Uber Eats. Uber Eats is enabling fans to maximize their fandom all season long with exclusive game day deals on the app. From game day eats to paper plates and napkins if you’re hosting to all the ingredients you need to make your own favorite game day dip before, during, and after the game. Uber Eats is assisting every fan’s hockey experience all season long. You know, whenever I hear like sports parties, my buddy Matt used to do that. I think he still does it. Did I ever tell you the story he used to do around the Super Bowl and the Gray Cup to have all of his buddies together? This would be great for Uber Eatats to um to to fuel. Uh and they would put he had like 10 buddies and they’d all put in 100 bucks and they have like the whole thing like chicken wings and nachos and chips and like the whole beer like the the whole all the stuff that you’d expect at a football party for the Super Bowl of the Great Cup. What they’d do is they’d each throw 100 bucks and before the opening kickoff they’d all weigh themselves. After kickoff they’d all start eating and at the end of the game they’d all get back on the scale and whoever’s put on the most weight gets the pot. Okay, this is really stupid and I’m going to I’m going to keep note of this one and remind my buddies this year and do it. This might be something I do so that we can bring this back and I can discuss results on the show. Oh yeah, you would do that, right? You’re young and dumb enough. 100%. I You’d like you’d like young enough young enough. I don’t know. I’m gonna feel like I will say that because I’m starting to have that. Like I played hockey last night. I woke up this morning. I was like, “Wow, my hip kind of sore.” Like, “Oh, welcome to it. God, what the hell’s going on? Little boys up.” Yes. Okay. Little boy’s all grown up. That’s awesome. All right. So, what do we have today then for crave the stats slashcrave the stories? Okay. So, as you said, crave the stories. Um, I’m trying to find things that are interesting here and also will uh will, you know, tickle you a little bit, make you happy, cuz that’s what I try to do every day a little bit at least. I did did say some stupid stuff on the show today, maybe bother you a little bit, but we’ve had Chris Mason on the show. Whoops. Uh, thanks. He already talked. He He already He already said some words. I don’t know why he won him again. He talked already. Thanks. I I figure when we do the crave the stats stat of the day, we could try to pull something historical that relates to the day of. And I tried to do that a little bit with Thanksgiving one and I’ll keep going with that. Uh, crave the stats. October 16th in history. I pulled three good ones here. I think you’ll like a lot. Um, so quickly I’ll just run through them. 1946, uh, Gordy House scored his first NHL goal in his very first game, 3-3 tie against the Leafs. 1968, Leafs rookie Jim Dory, very popular figure on the show over the past two weeks. Log a memorable debut with 48 penalty minutes, four minors, two majors, two misconducts, and a game misconduct. And then last year, uh, Sydney Crosby passed 1,600 NHL points in overtime, and Malcolin scored his 500th career goal. Those all happened on this day in NHL history. Let me color in the middle one there. 1968 Jim Dory, whose nickname, as we all know, we’ve been talking about this program whether it Yeah, you know, we’re going with here, whether it was Calgary or Vegas, his nickname was Flipper. Now, Flipper, Jim Dory just also happened to be one of the toughest defenseman in any league that he was in. In the Miners, in the NHL, the WHA, you did not mess with Jim Dory. I think his deep partner was Brad Celwood. Couple of players that escaped from your Maple Leafs to the WHA along with other defenseman like Rick Lee which pretty much guaranteed that your Maple Leafs were not going to win a Stanley Cup in the 1970s. Sorry about that, but you know Herald compete against the salaries in the WHA. So in that game that was so his first game he’s playing against the Pittsburgh Penguins and here’s how it all started. It’s a guy by the name of Ken Shankle. And so Dory had I think it was two minors or three minors already. And Shankl deliberately stepped on Jim Dory’s stick. Dove I think he admitted it later. Yeah, totally dove. Dove, drew another penalty, and as he got up, he goes, “Ah, kid, that’s your third minor or fourth minor, whatever it was. I guess you’re going back to the you’re going back to the minors on that one. There’s no way you’re staying up here. So, Flipper flips out and goes after him. Keith McCreary jumps in. Dory starts fighting him and then fights a guy by the name of John Arbor, who was probably not the not the biggest guy on the ice, but John Arbor was tough. He was part of that Niagara Falls Flyers Edmonton Oiler Kings brawl 1965, the Memorial Cup, where cops actually hit the ice. I have the video, Zach. We should play it here once. with the Sanderson Falenberg incident, which is still the most vicious thing I’ve ever seen in hockey. But I digress. The other great Jim Dory story. So that’s how he got all those pimps. He just fought everybody and took a bunch of miners. And Ken Shankle started off by stepping on his stick and then mocking Flipper because of it. And he was called Flipper because he could flip the puck higher than anybody else and got the puck out of the zone clear. And I still don’t want don’t know why more players don’t use um the space above on a more consistent basis, but I digress. You know what he did once in a WHA game? Um, I think Dory would have been playing for Toronto at this point and I think Gordy Machine Gun Galant would have been playing with the Quebec Nordiks of the WHA. But Galant had gone after one of Dory’s younger teammates and his coach told him to do something about Galant. Now, normally a player would think, okay, I got to attack him. I got to fight him or do something like that. You know what Dory did? He led a three-man rush through the neutral zone. Stopped at the penalty box, which was open in those days, not glassed in. Turned, took a slapshot at the penalty box, and Gordy Galant Galant got out of the way, and it hit a cameraman. And Dory got fined like $10,000 for hitting a cameraman. Can you imagine someone leading a rush, stopping at center ice, turning, and firing the puck in the penalty box? Jim Dory, baby. Jim Dory. So, I can and I won’t say the guy’s name. Someone I was good friends with had a switch um growing up playing hockey. He was playing AAA for one organization and got cut and went to a different organization. and his back at the coach of the former team. Yes. Yes. Missed him. But so when you say can you imagine that’s one rare occasion. Yes. So here here so I I I’m I’m trying to find out where this game was. So if it was if it was Toro/Bulls, John Garrett could have been the goalender. And so I sent Cheeichch a note um about an hour ago saying, “Were you in the game where Jim Dory took the slapshot of Gordy Galant in the penalty box?” And he gave me the most wh answer of all time. I can’t remember that one, but it’s probably true. Most WHA answer ever from John Garrett. When I saw that one pop up on the rundown, I’m like, “Oh yeah, we’re talking about flipper.” I get my Jim Dory story out. That was uh there’s some other ones on there like for today in history and I was like, “Okay, we congrat to some of those.” I tried to grab some throughout time here, but I like that one has to be in here. Like you you’re going to need to say something or see that that one’s on the sheet and that one was something from today. So, I think chat liked this one. Uh I’m glad you like that one. It’s something we’ll try. Chat loved it. Slap shots in the penalty box. Preglass penalty box. Fire pucks in there. All right. All right, chat. Doing that one for you. More stories coming up as we do this. I like this feature. Just let me like gush out some some history stuff. Um, okay. A couple of things here before I wrap things up. And I do want to play part of um James Van Remdsteike on Morning Cup of Hockey who was excellent. Justin Williams was on as well. Highly encourage you if you didn’t watch or listen to it live uh to go to the archives and check it out. It’s great. Uh the sheet is powered by FanDuel. 11 games tonight. Home of the same game parlay. Make every moment more on FanDuel. FanDuel proud to connect fans to the major sports moments that matter to them. What is jumping out at you tonight other than the Rangers will score a goal because they’re not at MSG. Insane that you just said that. Very in sync here today, Jeff, because I always do the board and I do the games of the day. This one I very specifically did the uh goal scorers for the Rangers Leafs game. I was like, I’m going to change it up. Rangers can’t score at home and they’re playing on the road. I wanted to bring up the board and ask you, but like who’s scoring a hattick? Come on. Yeah. Right in front of all these guys from Yeah, for sure. Well, getting a hat-tick. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of funny that that ends up happening. But yeah, I just brought up this sheet. I was like, man, the Rangers can’t score at home. They’re on the road. Somebody from the Rangers is scoring. And then I was looking around. I’m like, some of these are kind of funny. Like William Knander is like plus 180. You know, you’re getting a little bit higher on him. Austin Matthews plus 135. I thought both guys started to look a little bit better the other day. I know who’s a net for the Rangers. So, let’s let’s make sure I’m we’re clear on that. But yeah, especially that that empty netter by Austin Matthews. Was he like dying for that one? You know, if you know you’re going to score like 70 goals in a season, maybe you’re not as aggressive as you were on that one. But that one just told me like nothing’s guaranteed this year. I got to get all the cookies I can. Well, as the boys on Morning Take pointed out, Matthews was uh he scored 35 goals. I think it was the final number last season. He’s on pace for 41 empty netters this year, so we’ll take him where we can get him. That’s awesome. Uh Rosie wasn’t too uh too uh too thrilled of Frankie Nazar last night, eh? No, he did it in like the nice most polite way possible, which was pretty funny. I was watching loose morning take and Alber asked him about it and he kind of did the rosie. He’s like, ah, you know, it’s modern day player. You know what Alber’s got to start doing? Here’s what Nick’s got to start doing. I’m just going to give like Nick like public advice how to how to handle Rosie in situations like that. Nick’s got to say things like this. Hey Rosie, pretend you’ve had like eight beers right now and answer this question. What did you think of Frankie Nazar? This one man Sully last night nar party of one. Nazar party of one. What did you think of that last night? Yeah. And then that’s when they’re going to do the uh the Mitch Hedber Merrick search party of one. That’s right. The Drains. Who can eat at a time like this? We have to find the defrains. The defrains are missing. What happened to the defrains? Yeah, there goes Zach, folks. Time like this. I love who can eat at a time like this. People are missing. Yeah, Broie was not Broie was not He didn’t Let’s just say he didn’t love it. He didn’t like freak out or anything, but he didn’t love it. Um he did just land in Italy, though. He’s there on vacation. did the show from his Is he there to inspect the rink that everyone’s grossing about already? Yeah, I did see that. I did see all that just me that’s been taking place. This happens every year cuz this was the this was like the um this was the conversation too. I’m not saying that it’s not true and who knows like it may just be awful by the time they get there. But um the uh the same thing happened in Sochi. remember like we’re eight months out and the rink’s not built. Like this happens all the time. Yeah, this happens all the time with the Olympics. I do remember that. I do remember that. Also, like this is all right. Here, ready? Hockey dumb. Let’s bookend the show with this. Oh, yeah. Hockey dumb. Let’s go. This how my This is how my brain thinks about this one. Okay. I understand the general concern. Like I I’m on board with that. I am on the same page. This is not a country foreign to ice rinks. Like they have hockey rinks. They understand building them and the severity. They played pro hockey there forever. Ron Wilson used Hang on. Ron Wilson used to play there. I think Minnesota Nurst Stars hid him there for a year. Like when the Oilers were hiding Rayo Ritzelan in Finland, Minnesota Nerf Stars would hide hide Ron Wilson all year long in Italy. I seem to rec. I didn’t know that. And he play Yeah. and he’d play he’d play in Italy then come back for the playoffs. Okay, Lou, ready to go bud. The same way Edmonton would do with Rio Relain. Oh yeah, bud. That’s why they have the cut off date past which you can’t play in the playoffs because of those donkeys doing that back in the day. Just hiding guys all over the world. Oh yeah, go a vacation. You understand what I’m saying, right? Like they’re like it it’s not like they’re like, “Oh, we’ve never built hockey rinks before. Whatever shall we do?” Like I I get the concern. and I’m on the same page, but like I I’m of the belief it’s going to get done. It’s going to be okay. We’ll be fine. If if you’re hosting the Winter Olympics, important not to lose the recipe for ice. If you’re hosting the Winter Olympics, important. Yeah. You think that would be pretty important doing this in like Rio di Janeiro. What do we What do we do for ice here on this one? Um, can we play the the the clip really quickly to wrap up the program today? Cuz I just want to mention that he’s going to be a regular on Morning Cup of Hockey. James Van Rejike made his debut today uh with our Impact players Johnny Lazarus and Kobe Cohen on Morning Cup of Hockey. Here is part of the conversation um discussing his goal the other night against Zach’s Toronto Maple Leafs. And I’m curious because there is history and I I’m I think at least you and Morgan Ryland are pretty Morgan Riley are pretty good buddies if I recall. Um did you chirp him at all or talk any to him about that goal or or have any words for him after that? Because that was like a like almost like a duel between two friends that play. No, for sure. I think right when I got that puck like I saw the uh the D kind of the other his D partner um kind of fall a little bit and I was thinking pass the whole way and uh it just yeah it was a little cat and mouse I think as far as he wasn’t sure if I was just going to try to take it right to the right to the net or make the play. So I’ll definitely have to let him know about that next time I see him. But uh but no uh I think uh the fact that um yeah was a little bit of that hybrid two-on-one gave me just that extra room and just uh yeah it’s always any chance to get a uh to score in that building to play in that building like it’s yeah I just obviously you guys I think I’ve mentioned this before to you guys but just how much I loved my time there and it’s always a special place for me to go back and play. So to kind of have my first game of the season be in that building um and to get get a goal like that and a big win like that was a nice way to to get the year going and uh hopefully I can continue to kind of keep the snowball rolling down the hill from there. James Van Remdikeke of the uh Detroit Red Wings. Um you want to hear a great story about Van Remdikeke Zack? Of course you do. Yes, please. Everybody in the chat right now, everybody watching, everybody listening want to hear a story about Jame. So, he was traded for uh Luke Shen in that famous um Toronto Philadelphia trade. And that was the draft in Pittsburgh. That would have been 2012, I believe. And Berky told me, he might have actually told this one on the show, too, that there were a lot of Maple Leafs fans there for that draft, like a huge section of Maple Leafs fans. So, he said he wouldn’t finalize the deal with Paul Hongren until they left the rink. They weren’t going to do it there because Berkkey didn’t. He said, “I didn’t want to get booed because Luke Shen was so popular and so loved in Toronto, but they like you get a chance to get James Van Remsteike that he’s like, we did the trade in the car on the way to the airport cuz I didn’t want to get booed in Pittsburgh. That’s why it didn’t happen on the floor.” The other the other told it here, but so funny. We’ll ask him about it next Wednesday then about the uh about the the James Van Reams like deal. Yeah. He’s like, “I don’t I didn’t want to get booed. I didn’t want to piss off all of our Maple Leafs fans, so I just did it in the car on the way. Okay, Homer, ready to do the deal now. Um, you know what’s great about Van Reamike with uh the Maple Leafs and and other teams, too. You’ll know this as as someone who played um the Coffee Boys will know this certainly, too. One of the great things about Van Remdikeke was retrievalss on the power play. When a puck misses the net on the power play, it’s going in the corner or it’s going behind the net. Van Reams was awesome at retrievalss. Like I don’t know how many extra shots he accounted for. Um but if uh if one great retrieval can lead to like three or four more chances or three or four more shots as a coach or teammate, anyone in the organization how valuable that is, of course you do. Like he said, I remember like Berky telling me back then it’s like this guy at retrievals is spectacular. He’s like, he’s going to account for so many more shots on the power play and just keep our zone time hot and we don’t have to worry about zone entries because this guy is dynamic at retrievalss. Anyway, uh one of the little that’s that’s you know what something like that is something like Laz and and Colby spit out because they’re like players and that’s how they think and that’s the nature of their questioning. Great puck retrievals. That’s what I’m adding to the conversation today and slapshots at guys in penalty boxes. That’s what I’m contributing to the conversation today. Jim Dory probably better than what I contributed the stupid comment. Oh, Chris Mason. I just was thinking I’m like I’m like I don’t know maybe you’re thinking like we haven’t had him. I’m trying to remind you and then I realized as soon as it came out of my mouth that’s not what was being said and I was like that was dumb. My oldest son like his first day at JK. I’m like all right next day he’s like all right you ready to go back? He goes go back. I went yesterday. What do you mean go back? every day. What? I went yesterday. That’s good. That’s good. And by the way, you came really close to saying another pet peeve term of mine that we hear all the time in general consensus as opposed to what other kind of consensus would there be? Ah, think of all the times you said general consensus. The word our language has ghosts, Zach. Our language has ghosts. Why don’t we do I can do a whole rundown of different goofy stuff tomorrow. Why don’t we do that to kick off the show tomorrow? Dumb hockey terms. This is going in the book. I’ll make a list. You got to save this so that we can make the book. I’ll make a list of all the dumb hockey terms that just are so empty and ghost filled. They just be like, “Yeah, we say some stupid stuff.” They really do. It’s kind of dumb. In the Christmas book we’re selling this year, micisms. Half of it is things you say like that and then half of it things you hate like that. Yeah. From the department of redundancy department. Yeah. What’s that? Who we got in the chat going? Al Zach, we have a meeting right now. Wrap it up. Is he tripping you in the chat about getting to a meeting? Why don’t I just stay on the air to screw our boss? You know all those bad air checks you gave mel all those whether it was on 32 whether it was here. You’re just going to wait for your meeting with Zach. He’s on my time right now. What’s your meeting about? Why don’t we do the meeting on the air? It’s me. Yeah, but it’s just the three of us in Toronto and Vic also in the chat. So Oh, okay. I don’t know. I don’t know. Pretty fast and loose with your managers, but okay. All right. It’s my cue to get off the stage. Leave the stage while they’re still clapping, Merrick. Leave the stage while they’re still clapping. Uh thanks to Mark Lazarus from The Athletic for stopping by the program today. Uh thanks to Anton Thun, former NHL agent for stopping by the program today. Uh and mainly thank you uh for being part of it today, either in the chat, watching live on YouTube, in the archives. Please hit subscribe. Uh we’d love to have you subscribed here and and part of our family at Daily Face Off. Um, and you know all the janitorial work to do if you’re listening to us on podcast, either it’s Apple Pods or at Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for the buns and the use of the hall. Tip your Zamboni driver on the way out. We’re back tomorrow 1:00 Eastern for the sheet. Jeff Merrick along with you. Hope you enjoyed the program today. If you did, or maybe even if you didn’t, they can’t all be gems, folks. Uh, please hit the subscribe button. Also a reminder, every morning 9:00 a.m. Eastern, Johnny Lazarus, Colobby Cohen, I call them the impact players. You might know them as a tandem that makes up the Morning Cup of Hockey. Also, DFO Live at noon Eastern this year, your host, Tyler Yurchuk, alongside Carter Hutton. Full days worth of programming right here on Daily Face Off, your favorite YouTube hockey channel. And as a reminder as well, Zach Phillips, our producer here for the sheet, said if you subscribe, he’ll buy you a puppy.
People are awesome – and so was this Thursday edition of The Sheet. Jeff Marek opens with a viral moment featuring Marty St. Louis running the Bell Centre stairs, before diving into a jam-packed NHL slate headlined by the Chicago Blackhawks and Buffalo Sabres both dropping eight spots on their opponents. Marek breaks down Brady Tkachuk’s injury and what an eight-week absence means for the #GoSensGo, plus the Sabres’ bounce-back win and Jack Quinn’s resurgence.
Jeff is then joined by Mark Lazerus of The Athletic to discuss Chicago’s red-hot start, Frank Nazar’s show-stopping celly, and how Connor Bedard and Nazar are shaping the future of the #Blackhawks. They dig into Jeff Blashill’s impact behind the bench, Spencer Knight’s emergence, and how Chicago’s rebuild has quietly turned into must-watch hockey.
Later, former NHL agent Anton Thun joins to dissect the recent wave of long-term contracts, why players like Connor McDavid, Kirill Kaprizov, and Lane Hutson are changing the salary-cap landscape, and what the new CBA means for future megadeals. It’s an episode loaded with insider insight, humor, and perspective from across the hockey world.
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Chapters:
00:00 – People Are Awesome (and Hockey Dumb)
01:30 – Marty St. Louis’ Viral Stair Sprint
04:00 – Brady Tkachuk’s Injury Timeline and Senators Fallout
08:00 – Buffalo Sabres’ 8-4 Win and Jack Quinn’s Big Night
10:00 – Cam Talbot and the #LGRW Hot Start
11:00 – Mark Lazerus Joins: Frank Nazar’s Solo Celly & Bedard’s Leadership
14:30 – Bedard’s Temperament and Thick Skin in Chicago
17:00 – The Blackhawks’ Emerging Core and Spencer Knight’s Impact
22:00 – What’s Connor Bedard Worth on His Next Deal?
24:00 – Contract Loyalty vs. Bridge-Deal Strategy
27:00 – Chicago’s Rebuild and Blue-Line Giants
31:00 – Lost Rivalries: Montreal-Detroit, Chicago-St. Louis
32:00 – Anton Thun Joins: NHL’s New Contract Philosophy
41:00 – Why Players Are Taking “Team-Friendly” Deals
46:00 – Salary-Cap Growth and Betting on Yourself
52:00 – Language Pet Peeves + “Slot Area” Rant
56:00 – Crave the Stats: October 16 NHL History
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12 comments
Wherr does Oliver Moore end up?
If you're talking dumb hockey terms, there's no worse one than "x plays a factor in…"
No! It's "is a factor" or "plays a role" not "plays a factor!"
You should see Jared Bednar's biceps, Jeff
Thun seems to forget NFL players like Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes and others, who signed for less than 'market value' for their own reasons…
10:17 ITS LUCAS RAYMOND NOT MASON RAYMOND cmon now jeffy
The Blackhawks are going to be a juggernaut in a 4-5 years
You could make the case that Hockey is the only SANE sport in regards to salaries.
20 million for a kid that never played a single pro game?
There is a definite “love of the game” aspect with many players, and it’s a FACT that paying one player a huge amount leaves less for the rest of the team, hurting the team’s competitiveness. This is a FACT.
All NHL players make a good living, does the system favor increasing owners profits? Of course! I never got rich working for someone else, but they did, it’s kinda how’s that works.
The ultimate goal for most players is the cup, star players should retire with many millions of dollars, how many would sacrifice a million or so but come away with a cup? I would say a lot of them.
The hawks prospect pool is ridiculous. Furthermore most the prospects are off to great starts.
Bedard is cancer, born July 17. Loyalty is immense among those who fall under that sign.
The agent does not have to go to the rink night after night and play on a lesser team if they take a max deal. They get their player signed and cash the check. So money becomes the only way they can judge happiness.
Seth Jones was terrible as a hawk. Low effort, couldn’t do anything but make a half decent pass. I know we were bad, but he was worse.
Stereotypical greedy agent who thinks all that matters is getting the max when we are talking about millions and million. Yes players who take less so they can have a chance at being on a championship team are smart. Agent is blinded by greed. Doesn’t matter how great a GM is, obviously if all your players are just going for the most money , you aren’t going to have as good a chance at being a Cup contender