Suns ready to lean on Devin Booker: 2025-26 preseason review and a season preview

Suns ready to lean on Devin Booker: 2025-26 preseason review and a season preview

Suns fans, you know what time it is in the PHX. Empire of the Suns. Phoenix Suns. Empire of the Suns. Empire of the Suns. Hello there and welcome to the Empire of the Suns podcast. My name is Kellen Olsson, joined as always by Kevin Zimmer. Man, what up, man? How’s it going? It’s almost time for the basketball. Good. It is indeed. We’re recording this on Friday morning at 10:00 a.m. I just got fresh off of doing Bickley and Marada 2 days and then I’m going straight to the airport and flying out to Vegas for a bachelor party. So, we’re just kind of keeping wheels moving. Come back alive. We need you get some rest in You’re not going to get rest, are you? It depends on how cooperative the lads are. I’ll put it that way. If I have it my way, I’ll get at least like six hours of sleep each night. We’ll see what allows that. It seems like they got three to four last night, which is not really what I’m shooting for, but I also got three to four, so I’m not the one that can start complaining because I was on the same sleep schedules for different reasons. Enough about me. Let’s talk about this Phoenix Suns basketball team. We’ve got basketball back on Wednesday, the season opener. Kevin and I haven’t talked since I believe the preseason opener. I want to say we went into the preseason. Yeah. Did we watch one open? you watched the opener, whether there was defense trying, effort, grit, all that kind of stuff, all the intangibles that the team has talked about at length. We won’t really won’t really go into those too much. We’ve got a few injury updates to go over and just some more preseason impressions and talking points to review for the start of the season. If you’re new here, hello Kellen, Kevin over there. Hi. We’re here doing the deal. Uh, I would recommend and I I always do this. Longtime listeners will know if you’re looking for more like it’s the start of the season. Here’s what to expect. Like we’ve had a lot of those conversations already to this point. We’re going to get into that a little bit more here and like predictions, whatever you want to do. Exactly. But we’ve got the home opener on Wednesday. The biggest news to come out of the preseason so far, we have not seen Jaylen Green or Mark Williams. Jaylen Green aggravated his hamstring uh suffered a hamstring strain, excuse me, uh going into uh the preseason. It was about like a week before the preseason got underway for them on October 3rd when he suffered it. He travels with the team to China and at some point he reagravates the hamstring. Jordan said that he was close to playing on October 12th. So that indicates that he was close to playing obviously and that he didn’t um the way a was describing it, it didn’t sound like it was one of those reagravations where it’s like oh great now he’s going to miss two months. It still sounds like he’s in a pretty decent spot. We will be receiving an update on his status by a week from today which is the second game of the season I believe on the 24th off the top of my head if I’m remembering correctly against the Clippers on the road. We’ll get an update at some point then. And then Mark Williams, he continues to go through this process that we talked about on last episode. They are rehabilitating, reshaping, however you want to say it. They’ve sort of had him go through, maybe it’s being too dramatic, but a body transformation. Like they’ve loved his like strength numbers with whatever metrics they’re using to measure him. But all this has been a very slow, arduous, tepid process. He just started playing five on five a few days ago. That was against coaches and staff, so I don’t really count that. I got to watch a little bit of that and it wasn’t really at a certain speed to say the least. They will be scrimmaging at some point this weekend or early next week I imagine to keep up their cardio. So, is he getting in those games? How does he look in those games? Do they feel good about where he is in those games? Needless to say, Kevin, this is a team that does not have any margin for error right now. I think they can still build the way that they want to build if these guys miss time to start the year. But in terms of them starting off on the right foot and building everything with their synergy and how they’re going to play this year, figuring out the green booker dynamic, figuring out how to maximize Williams as a roller, as a five, those are things that you would like to have some time and some kinks worked out in preseason and they didn’t get them. Yeah, it’s going to be a process. I mean, I think that’s why when you look at win total stuff preseason, we are where we are with them and and even considering the injury history going into this for Mark Williams specifically, that’s where it’s like, hey, you got you got center options at least behind him, if he’s not ready, if he’s getting his win back, whatever. I’m if we take this whole preseason in to to project into the regular season, like obviously they’re they’re going to have to play defense. Um there were good returns there. Not just the effort stuff, but just being in sync and offense too. Like they just don’t have as much talent when you consider the offensive talent um without Jaylen Green especially alongside book. So I think they’re going to take some losses, but it’s hey, do you have semblance of organization? Do you have semblance of plans? Do you have an identity? And I I think again preseason, but we got a good sense of they’re going to be super aggressive on the ball. Um just running through again big asteris preseason numbers. I think they were a top 10 defense. They were top five, I believe, in steal rate. They foul a ton. They led the NBA in foul rate. Um which is to be expected when you have an aggressive team playing like that and a young team. Um, so they’re just going to try to get into people’s faces and outwork people and you’re going to need to go deep into your bench for for to play this way both because of the fouls and the effort that you hope you’re getting out of the guys. Um, and that’s going to be your identity and you hope Devin Booker can pull you out of a couple games just playing masterful basketball until Jaylen Green returns and then that does obviously reshape because I think we saw like as soon as Book left, I know it’s preseason again, but just who’s who’s the person creating? Um, another thing we can talk about a little bit is just I I did like how they aren’t making Book play traditional point guard stuff. He’s coming off pin downs. Um he also pretty touched the ball a lot was very involved but but at the same time is not forced to work from zero bring the ball up as people are staring at him. Um, so they’re very aware of how hopefully to optimize him and and not overwork him because again a lot’s going on his shoulders and that’s something you wrote about about especially with Jaylen Green being out. Multiaceted is the way that I would describe it. Just the way that they’re using him, where they’re using him and not forcing him to bring the ball up all the time. That’s putting a lot of trust in Grayson Allen and Dylan Brooks and and others like Colin Gillespie. do wonder if Book’s impact isn’t what they want uh in terms of how he’s able to impact the game a game or two in. I wonder if they do turn to someone like Gillespie just to go with like the quote unquote traditional point guard just because um the secondary stuff really isn’t working. Um but it’s it’s my biggest hesitation with the team because I just think that the the synergy that’s going to be required between him and Green is basically another elevation of what you were looking for with Beal. Now, there was KD in the offense. There was more that you had to kind of figure out there. It wasn’t just those two guys leading the charge. But one, they’re just going to be screwed when one of these guys is out because the other guy is just going to get completely phased out of the game or the other team is going to completely phase them out or try to completely phase them out of the game. I believe it was the first game in China against Brooklyn where Book was just hardly involved because they were doing fullcourt pressure. They were trapping off of any screen. And that’s the type of situation where um I asked Odd about it and he’s like, “Well, if they’re going to face guard him from 40 ft and we can like or they’re going to trap him that far out 35 ft, like we’ll play four on three.” And it’s like, “Yes, you will play fouron-ree, but how successful are those four threes compared to the Draymond Green Warriors?” Like the best case scenario of that. Um can you land somewhere in the middle? Can you get enough out of Oso Agadaro in those sequences if he’s going to continue to start while Mark Williams is out? Gambo is reporting that the expectation is for Williams to be ready by Wednesday. But again, those types of reports when we’re talking about expected to be, could be ready, that he’s on pace, all that kind of stuff, we’ll believe it when we see it with his track record, unfortunately. But yeah, it’s just how do they maximize Book when Green is in there and when he isn’t in there? And any game Book misses, they’re just going to be in for a world of hurt because of the lack of playmaking that they have and just who’s going to who’s going to produce offense. They’re going to have to play with a lot of pace. They’re going to have to create a lot of turnovers. They’re going to have to win the margins. They were very good at winning the margins in the preseason. You never read into preseason numbers, but I believe the Seth and Matt Moore had earlier today too is that when you look at turnover rate in the first quarter specifically, so that was that was uh the starters, they had the best number uh in the league in the preseason. So, they’re taking care of the ball as well. That’s how they’re going to win basketball games and surprise people like me who are picking them to win 30 games. That’s how they’re going to do it. They’re going to win the margins. That’s what wants to do. But it all starts with those two guys getting on the same page. And so now if Green comes back for the fourth game of the year at Utah on Monday, October 27th, how long do him and Booker need to sort of get on the same page? Because there’s going to be like six minutes stretches and games, Kevin, where Jaylen’s like almost exclusively playing on the second side and like is he going to be is he going to be cool with that? Is he going to be able to take on that role and like love that? I’m not calling it a Drew Holiday role. Everyone calm down. We’re not going that far just yet, but is he going to be able to take on that role? Um, respect that role and be okay with the fact that he’s going to go through a quarter where he only gets one or two shots up because that’s the thing about him being the leading scorer for Houston last year is that he was many times their number one perimeter option now and this is the first time in a couple of years where he is not the number one perimeter option for them uh anymore. So, how is he going to handle that? How are you going to maximize books still when that is happening? how much can they set up for each other? How much are they screening for each other? That is like number one top of mind to see. So, the fact that we haven’t seen it yet is a concern going into the year, but it’s like it’s still like not even like 1 2 3 4 in terms of what they need to win basketball games. Like they can still win basketball games if that process is undergoing. It’s more about everything that is very uh ABC123 101 basketball kind of stuff that they want to be much better at. So if they do that, they’ll be a competitive team all year. Yeah. I I go back to that first Brooklyn game. Um in Macau because also because like Book, yes, it’s preseason. He’s not going to be like, I need the ball. First quarter, they got down. They weren’t playing good defense either. But to me, whether that’s preseason or not, it reminded me that Book does not force things. he is going to say, “Hey, I’m going to make the right basketball play.” Like he does. But he did out of the third quarter when they were down still, “Hey, I’m coming out aggressive as heck.” Basically gets them back in the game himself. And that’s where in the past two years, he hasn’t I don’t know if he’s just not asserted himself enough or not just because of the dynamics. I don’t think it’s necessarily his fault, but on this team, he’s definitely back to that spot where he’s like, “Okay, I need to take over now and I can do that.” And I think that’s just more clear-cut how this roster is constructed. And that was a reminder of like, “Okay, like book knows, okay, we’re down this many. I need to do it now.” Um, and I’m not necessarily going to do it in the first quarter when things go south immediately. I’m going to pick my spot later. But that’s one where it’s like that’s the importance of Jaylen Green. that doesn’t happen where you’re down 18 or whatever they were cuz then it’s just hey they’re they’re throwing everything at book Jaylen Green go cook just because in the flow of things that’s what’s happening I’m sure he’ll be fine with that but in the third quarter you know who your number one is so I think just the dynamics there are going to be a lot easier to manage but again it’s like where are you going to get the offense it is going to be um a lot on the other guys and I I I’ll guess I’ll pivot there to the center rotation to ask you cuz I we saw different things about Oso in summer league. He got some four run and that might just be hey Malawatch needed to play whatever. Do you think he is the backup center right now if Mark Williams is healthy and do you think he’s going to get a lot of run at center just because like he held up better. He looks more physical as far as a rebounder. Um and they again they need the playmaking part. Yes, but it’ll be a tight leash. So if he has like he had I believe in the second game inrooklyn where if he starts when he’s trying to play or if he’s not finishing the thing about his shot profile is that him getting to the free throw line again we’re talking about shot profile for a guy who’s going to average like six points per game this year but it’s very important for him to have some sort of threat scoring that doesn’t include just open layups and open dunks on rolls loss things like that he’s a guy yeah he needs to get to the free throw line but when he gets to the free throw line he needs to make his shots. I’m going to look it up right now as I’m typing, but his his preseason free throw numbers were not good. His free throw numbers last year were not good, but it was in a very limited sample as well. The good news is he was second on the team in free throws attempted per game at 4.3. The bad news is he shot 39%. Yeah. And he wasn’t even getting to the line. So, at least like he’s like, I just got to get there and figure it out, I think, this year. Um, well, we saw that in summer league 2, but yeah, I mean, I think it was the the national five for 13 to be clear over three games. So, it’s not like this great sample size to be like OSO is now like a historically bad bismac beyond free throw shel. I mean, so I I mean, I was listening to I don’t think it was the recent episode of the Nash, LeBron, KD stuff podcast. Uh, that’s senior adviser Steve Nash now. But, um, he and LeBron were just talking about the centers now. you need to bring something extra if you’re just like rim roller rebounder guy like like Nick Richards that’s where he’s in this weird space where it’s like yes he’s actually the most productive but he actually doesn’t bring anything extra whether it’s spacing shot blocking um playmaking um and that’s the weird space he’s in even though he had a pretty good preseason I think um so OSO like just needs to bring two things he does bring the playmaking but then you either got to rebound and hold up defensively as an undersized dude or be able to make your foul shots if they’re going to foul you cuz they’re going to just foul you every time if you can only dunk. But they need and this is something that um unprompted a brought up also and just when it came to secondary ball handlers and secondary playmaking who else was going to be dribble guys for them as we’ve coined them on our podcast. They need another wrinkle of it and OSO does provide that. And then defensively is the more important side of the ball in my opinion because A has been very steadfast and consistent with we want our bigs to play up. We’re not going to play a deep drop the whole year. Mark is a deep drop guy. Nick Richards is a deep drop guy. Come on. Malawatch is a deep drop guy. OSO can play higher up. Now Malawatch did play higher up a little bit in that last game. Uh Richards has done it a little bit more. He looks much more mobile. He looks like he’s in much better shape right now, too. But with all that being said, what he wants to do defensively, changing up concepts, changing coverages, whether it’s switching, trapping, hedging, going that aggressive, that’s where OSO can hang his hat as well. With that being said, he is small. Nick Claxton was bullying him. And you would not think of Nick Claxton as Demarcus. He’s a little wiry as well, but he was having his way with him too in that game and just winning the physicality department as well. So if that I think they’ll start with Oso as the backup five or the starting five if Williams is out. But if there’s games like that and then the offense isn’t really going well and he’s missing free throws and you’ll turn to Richards pretty quickly or or you’ll even turn to Malawatch in that case. I want to talk about defense because the biggest question for me coming out of the preseason is okay they’re clearly going to try very hard to start. We’ll see how long it goes for. Again, my one of my biggest questions with the team is when they inevitably lose seven of 10, eight of 11, 10 of 12, whatever it is, are they still going to be playing this hard? We’ll see. Um, I would assume that they will based on the guys that they got and everything that’s been said, but that may be too optimistic for some people’s liking. That’s where I’ll go with it for now. But how good can this defense be? I’m not going to hover towards top 10, but can they be like middle of the road? Do they have the personnel for that? What to watch for I think in the first five games is how often are they put into recoveries based on someone getting by a on ball defender and how good are those recoveries because that those are the two parts where this defense was absolutely miserable and abhorent last year is the amount of dribble penetration they allowed for one but two how abysmal and terrible and stinky and trash their recoveries were for most of the year after that. There were some very impressive possessions they put together where someone did get beat or they were funneling the guy towards the rim and all of the all of the recoveries and all of that stuff is very good. But is Dylan Brooks a very good on ball defender or is he just like an okay on ball defender at this point in his career? Is is Ryan done great on the ball or is he just kind of okay? Brian will be the first guy to tell you off the ball he felt pretty good about how he defended as a rookie on the ball he felt like he had a lot more to learn. Grayson in a similar position where now he’s not asked to guard the first guy. he’s going to be a lot more secondary like he sort of was last year. Can he hang there? Can he avoid being the guy that gets picked on all the time? Can he avoid being the pigeon? And then the guys on the back end like his OSO big enough to be a consistent room protector. Is Mark Williams’ positioning, which is the people, the real league heads out there, the league pass heads who have watched a lot of Charlotte Horns basketball last three years, the National Riders will bless you. Yeah. Bless you first of all. And second of all, they will be heavily um critical of the way that Williams positioned himself as a backline defender. So we’ll see if he improves there, if Richards can improve there. That was one of those things where it felt like every time out David Fizzdale was talking about Richards and pointing to spots on the floor. And if Malawatch plays, if he’s able to do that, like he made a couple of nice plays against the Lakers. Can he do that as well? So all of that coming together, can you be a can you be 14th in defensive rating instead of like 25th? That’s a huge difference in being competitive cuz this team’s going to be bad offensively. There’s no way that they’re going to be a top 10 offense this year. I feel very confident in saying that. This is the same guy who after watching this team defensively 10 games into last year was like there’s no way they’re one of the worst defensive teams in the league and then Kevin got hurt the rest of the year happened from there. But I’m very confident that they’re going to be a better defensive team than an offensive team. And if they’re a middle of the pack defense, Kevin, that is how they actually surprise people and win 35 maybe even 40 games. I think um Suns fans might not like to hear this, but I think Ryan Dunn needs to he’s the guy who needs to have the biggest year of like a jump to me. Um because he’s obviously going to be the starter. Dylan Brooks will have his spots and he’s the instigator. Like you know all about him, but he’s not athletically like gonna chase after the one twos and even the most athletic threes in the in the best way. Um it was not good. for example, that Cam Thomas how he went off on the Suns because it was a lot of done. Um, it was actually Dylan Brooks who was ended up like having a couple possessions to kind of cool him off in that preseason game. It was a little Landry Shamid from Ryan where I thought he played very good defense and Cam Thomas was so confident scoring on him that it didn’t matter because remember Landry Sham played excellent defense on Jamal Murray for most of that playoff series. It didn’t matter because Jamal Murray thought he was food. Yeah. But but to me that’s the biggest problem with this team is even if Ryan Dunn is having success there then Book and Jaylen Green are guarding who you know what I mean? They were gonna have to guard up probably in some respects. Um same with Grayson. Um Colin Gillespie is always at a disadvantage but obviously he’s there to get into the teeth of the point guards. Um so how they defend the the ones, twos, and threes to me are going to be like make or break. Um, like yes, you’re going to get blown by by the best players. Luca’s going to step back on anyone. That that stuff isn’t concerning to me. It’s who gets downhill and starts breaking apart your defense because you can’t keep them in front of you. And yes, that’s why you have the centers and that’s why I like from this perspective the roster construction of you have some big bodies back there and Malawatch hopefully comes along to deter and make the mid-range the king. Um, I will say again, preseason numbers, they did do a really good job of points in the paint stopping people from scoring there. So, there’s that. Um, but we’re just going to have to see. It’s going to be again a lot on Ryan Dunn, I think, to really make this or break this. Um, I think him and Grayson are the two swing guys for the team outside of the obvious because again, we say like Jaylen Green is the X-factor. It’s like he’s the second best or third best player on the team in most eyes. Like that that would make sense that he was. Same thing with Mark Williams and his health. Obviously, if you’re not familiar with the concrete numbers there, uh less than 45 games played each of his three years. I think it’s 43% of his total games that he’s played in through three years. Is he going to play 80? No. Is he going to play 70? No. Can I get 60? Can I get 55? Can I even get 50? That would be a notable and sizable improvement, but you want to see him shoot for at least like 55. That would be that would be something going in the right direction. So, we’ll see um on that front. Yeah, I think I think Grayson and Ryan are the two guys that will really swing this year just because I think of how much Grayson’s going to have to do. I think that he is going to be like the secondary quoteunquote point guard in these point book lineups when Jaylen or Devin is not bringing the ball up. I think it’ll be Grayson quite a bit. I know fans are like often infuriated with some of the decision-m that he has and it leads them to believe that he’s a much worse basketball player than he is. And I totally get it because the frustration with his turnovers. A lot of them are sort of unforced errors. But that being said, he’s not really a guy who turns the ball over a ton. Like his percentile ranking and turnover percentage last year was 34th, which isn’t great, but it’s not horrible. And then it was 50, which is league average the year before. So, he doesn’t really turn the ball over too much, but the decision-m that he makes and how consistently he’s taking advantage of Devin going around a pin down and seeing two immediately and it’s going to swing a lot. I I will say like how they handled again going back to the people who didn’t watch the preseason games much how they handled the point guard situation like a lot of the issues that we’ve talked about even since the Chris Paul area of getting the ball past half court is just about pace and and that’s where this team is in a better spot because hey even Malawatch he got a rebound and and the co the everyone’s going back on defense like they allowed him to dribble it up a few times and just dribble hand off and get the offense rolling. Um, and getting into the offense quickly is the important thing. It’s not like who’s dribbling. And a lot of that can be fixed with the pass, which I just blew my mind the last few years that they just didn’t figure that out at some points. And just like push the ball up and then you don’t have to worry about people pressuring you. They just didn’t care enough. It’s just pressure. It’s like fullcourt pressure is a big talking point right now, but which teams are going to do it all 82 games? It’s Indiana created this trend, but in a postseason series. Hi was on Kevin Oconor’s podcast and he talked about this how like we were doing it over a seven game series. That’s a lot easier than doing it over a full 82. Like we’ll see where the worry about getting to the playoffs. Every team wants to play fast. Every team wants to defend with more pressure. Every team wants to win the position. Every team also wants to get back if you’re pushing it down there that I feel like I’ve been listening to football guys on our radio station too much. It’s just like who are you moving the man in front of you or are they moving you? I listen to Kenny Dillingham. The story the point of attack physicality. You just got to want it more. But if you if you face up and you’re dribbling forward and and pushing it up or passing it, then they’re going to be on their heels. Before we go, the rookies, Kaman Malawatch is incredibly green and it’s incredibly fine, everyone. It’s totally okay. Now, I know me saying this after he had by far his best outing against the Lakers and looked like he could play good minutes for you right away might throw some people off. But if you just watch him on the floor and go back and watch any of those games, even that Laker game, you can see the gears are still spinning for him just about everywhere. And because he is such a giant dude with where he has to put himself on the floor, if he just leans the wrong way, not even steps wrong way, leans the wrong way, he’s suddenly out of position. That’s something I saw a lot with Mark Williams on tape as well. So that process is going to take time. I would be shocked if he’s in the opening rotation. Even if Mark Williams is out, the opening night rotation, I don’t think he’ll be in there. And again, that’s totally fine. And I’ve been saying this message in different places because when Cedric Coward wins Western Conference rookie of the month right away or things like that start to happen and Malawatch is barely playing, it’s fine. They drafted him because of what he’s going to be in year three, not because of what he’s going to be in year one. It might even be year two as well. That’s totally fine. Rasheir Fleming needs to play right away. I was on this hill when they drafted him initially and in the summer and getting to watch him just once up close. It was like the way that he moves around the floor. I asked book about like multi-positional defenders and wings and stuff and it’s like I was like it’s great to have one of those guys on your team and he was like well there there aren’t many guys like him though and and noting to rashier 6975 moves the way that he does around the floor and said after that game and made it clear that he’s kind of in that Malawatch camp too where not really sure where to be sometimes doesn’t really know what to do and they just want him to play instinctual basketball. I think that’ll be a lot easier for him when he’s playing with the regular rotation players. A guy like him just has to hit his threes and not botch backside defensive rotations. Like that’s all he has to do to stay on the floor because from there he’s getting that offensive rebound. He’s getting the moves in transition. He’s picking up that crazy block out of nowhere, that steal, the run out. He’s one of those guys that’ll just make those plays happen. The Suns have a couple of guys like that, but no one who moves like him, and they have to position themselves better for the athletic teams that they’re going to play this year. They’re going to be much more athletic than they were last year already with Green and Williams, but Fleming kind of pushes it over the top and in a way where I think if we just see Malawatch in the rotation, he’s he’s going to fail a bit and that’s okay. But I think that we should make sure with Fleming. Like even if we think he’s going to fail, I’m doing the wei thing right there for Even if you think he’s going to fail, give him a couple of games, give him a few weeks to wait and see really how much he will fail, how will he fail because the benefit that you’re going to get. The benefit for Malawatch is just like, okay, you get like decent center minutes and like you’ve already got those. They have no one else that does what Rashier does in the way that he does it. So they need they need to play him. I think both of them will be in line for spot minutes here or there or should be at least especially Malawatch just I saw I honestly don’t even know if it’s mental or physical progression from preseason game 1 to four but there was something there where he was just moving faster more decisive maybe but also the body I guess I’m going back to summer league from where he was then like just looked more like he was in control and and I’m sure he’s been working really hard on on just the physical stuff and weight room things. Um, explosiveness, just running up and down the floor, he just looked so much improved even compared to summer league when he first appeared there. Um, but I think the the last preseason game was good for both of them. And that’s where it’s like, hey, we see you against Luca and Aton, they’re obviously pretty new with one another, but just how Malawatch was moving and found that gray area where when you’re a large 7 foot2 human being, if the pick and roll downhill guy doesn’t know if he should go attack you or throw the lob, he’s lost um just because of how long your arms are. He found himself a couple of times in those situations, which is good that he’s just even in the same world of being in the right spot. And then Fleming to me, the the standout things with him are just the instinctual again, baby deer type stuff, but just on ball on Luca, not fouling is when you’re, you know, you always see rookies like, “Oh, I’m on Luca. I’m just going to be super aggressive.” And it’s just like, “Oh, that’s foul bait.” like he was very calm, was still actually trying to get the ball and poke at it and stuff and didn’t didn’t get overly aggressive. And I think that was kind of a huge oh, he’s like locked in. He’s not afraid of the moment. He’s not just panicking. He’s on Luca. He had a notable thing where he showed self-awareness and saying like um remember he had like the viral clip go uh after draft night where it was something like it was extreme confidence to the point where like if you read it in the wrong context or just read it in whatever context you might think it was arrogant. He said something earlier in camp where he felt he said he felt super comfortable on both ends particularly on defense and then he said it in a way of a tone where like he didn’t quite expect it. So I thought it was like he was ready for like the rookie wall to hit him to be out of place and not really know what he was doing and then getting to guard Luca, getting to guard Austin Reeves, he got to kind of see it. Yeah. And and that’s how he kind of played. So again, uh learning curve for both of them, but there’s reasons that they can help your team now and it’s just a matter of juggling that. And again, I think when we talk about the rotation, we don’t have to go in super depth cuz again, it’s it’s going to change, but I think they have enough bodies where they need to do some like shift changes or game by game, this matchup makes sense. Whether it’s, hey, we need Nick Richards today and not OSO, we need to get Rashier in for 15 minutes against this team just cuz he’ll help on the wing defense. I think that’s what you’re going to see on this team whether whether Jaylen Green and Mark Williams are healthy or not. the rotations pointed towards Nigel Hayes Davis being the guy to get those minutes. Um, he didn’t have that great, but he really struggled in the Lakers game. He’s he’s been okay this preseason. I understand why he would play again, but he he is like that is the perfect example of like where do your priorities lie? Do you need the guy that’s in the right place at the right time every single time that you could debatably say which guy gives you more of a chance to win, but you’re just going to go with like the coaches, not favorite, but the guy who’s in the right spot every single time, who’s reliable in in a couple of different senses versus the kid who’s going to like again like run around, not really know where he is sometimes, and then he’s going to make three plays a game. Yeah. Where you’re like, “Oh my gosh, like we have no one else who can do that.” Uh it’ll be interesting to see. Cats talk before we go. Cats talk. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You down? Yeah. Uh new listeners of the pot. I say this every year. Uh we have cats talk at the end of podcast sometimes because Kevin and I are diehard Arizona Wildcats basketball fans on the men’s side specifically. Uh we don’t have a podcast, but sometimes in the last like 5 10 minutes, we just sit here and gab about UVA hoops cuz we love it more than anything else in the world. And if you’re a Suns fan and that’s all you want to hear about, guess what? You can shut off the podcast right now and we won’t take any umbrage with it. You’ll drop all of our important metrics with listening time. Oh no. If you got this far, you’ve already helped us. So thank you for your service. Yeah, we really appreciate that. And and I do I have had multiple people come up to me and say like, I don’t like the Arizona Wildcats. Like I’m an ASU fan or whatever, but I still stick around for Cats. That’s nice of you. Bless you if you’re one of those people. I think this team has the greatest gap of ceiling and floor that I can remember with an Arizona team in a long time because I don’t want to say if they Tommy Lloyd it, but again, have you seen they didn’t Tommy Lloyd it last year? Like Zack Low is on the pod with Simmons raving about Carter Bryan and like how he’s like an elite defender already and I’m like this guy sat on the bench like it’s he didn’t start. So why I’m bringing this up is not cuz I’m still mad about it, but I am still mad about it. Is there’s a version of this team that is very heavy Jaden Bradley, Anthony Deloro, Toby Waka, Mo Crievis, and it’s the majority of the offense and just the majority of things going through them. Or there is a version which is this is a version I believe where you’re primarily working through the mid post and coat. You’re primarily letting Braden Burries cook when you need to in the second half of games and you are playing the kids. You’re letting Dwayne Aristo run out there and make mistakes. You’re letting Kchenkenkov get out there who I I think Kchenkov’s good. You think? I think that he’s good. There were parts of the Red Blue game where I was like, are we sure Bryce James like shouldn’t be in the rotation right away? Like I I was feeling that way about some of the kids. Aristot is more of the projectable like 68 220. Maybe he’s a first round pick. I know Steelings guys think Aristot is like going to be the best three and D or at least the D part. The Raleigh the Raleigh Alkins if you will. like you can see that he’s a first round pick at some point in the future. That’s kind of his his stickick at all. But like Kartchenkenov brings like offense shot making um a little bit of juice on the ball that they need and then Bryce and Dwayne as three and D guys. So like there’s this version of the team where they’re starting Jaden Bradley, they’re starting Braden Burries, they’re starting I I’ll say it one of those freshman too and they’re starting Coat and then one of the bigs as well where they have these three freshman in there. They’re just electrifying with the way that they can get the way they can get to the ball defensively, the way they run up and down the floor because that’s the thing Lloyd’s teams are going to play fast. You can now revitalize some of your high low play with KA Pete and Mo Crie who who’s probably going to start at some point is going to be in there for now. But again, that’s what I worry about is that it’s just going to be a lot of high low and it’s going to be like a lot of Bradley on the ball and not enough burries and not enough of like if Kchenkov isn’t playing I don’t they’re playing Florida in the opener which is one of those huge things. Their non-conference schedule is actually kind of nasty. Uh it’s it’s the toughest one they’ve had under Lloyd. Uh number three Florida, number 12 UCLA, number four Yukon on the road. Uh number 20 Auburn, number 15 Alabama. So they they’ve got a lot going there, especially early. So it’s like, okay, are you still just going to play the kids right away? And they’re playing St. Mary’s in the preseason tomorrow. Oh yeah, they are indeed. That that’s getting streamed somewhere. I’m going to have to watch ESPN Plus, I believe. I’m going have to watch that when I get back. But by that Yukon game, at the end of that Yukon game, if it’s not clear that like this is that that’s five games in, if we’re five games in, albeit three really tough games. If we’re five games in, it doesn’t feel like this is like a freshman. It needs to be a freshman. Yes. Then this is going to be like the ninth place team in the conference. It’s going to be painful to watch, but or they could just be like a final four dark horse. I don’t know. Are you with me? Yes. They they need to the top two scorers. I mean, I’m going off of can like score it in the NBA right now. Like he’s You think? Okay. And I I’ve seen more Pete than don’t get me wrong, like nothing like that. But like that should be their top their top two scores should be those two for offense only. I’m saying scoring only. Not saying you should be a first round pick or anything, but if you needed someone to come off your bench and give you 12 points a game off the bench, he could legitimately do that right now in the NBA. And Coat’s uh pool for you. That’s what I’m saying. Coped is not not a freshman type of body or attitude or he’s like he’s not a developmental guy. He’s an athlete on the floor and then when you watch him come on the floor you think he’s going to be the worst athlete on the floor because you’re used to seeing Tyler Hanssboro, Luke Herren mid- post guys in college. Nigel Hayes was one of those guys as well. And then you watch him move around the floor, get offensive rebounds and with his length and everything and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I completely forgot his brother transferred to Arizona from ASU, which they were they were trying hard. Was he hanging out with Kenny Dillingham to Anyway, that’s my rivalry talk there. I love Evan Nelson. I love his education. I hope I I hope I don’t see him playing basketball.” Like that’s the thing. It’s like it’s like I don’t need to see 30 minutes a game of Anthony Deloro. Like I’m I’m I’m good. 15. You better get five shots up or you’re getting pulled. Yes. And look, he bulked up. He looks like he’s moving better on the field on the court. Was the most predictable thing. He did have like one good tournament game. Yeah, he did. And then against Duke, it looked like he was like the JV playing against like a JV high school kid playing against college pros. I’m lighter on Tommy Lloyd’s stuff because Cooper Flag if Cooper Flag didn’t exist then I would be we’d be a lot more it’d be a lot worse. I I give like you know how I felt about last year. It was like I was going to feel a certain aggressive kind of way and I said something on the pot after still because of the loss. But with that being said it was like I will counter that though and say like Caleb was unbelievable in that game too. So like without Caleb being unbelievable they would have gotten absolutely smoked. and I wrote about it at the time. We talked about it at the time. This is like the fascinating prove it year for me with them because he’s got a extremely talented roster. If he can build the system around these guys, they’re going to be very, very good. And if he can develop guys like these freshman, which he has done in the past to be clear, if he can get some improvement out of Jaden Bradley, if he can get some improvement further from all these other guys on the roster that we’ve already brought up, then they’re going to be maybe the best team in in the entire conference, like in the Big 12 in general. I think there really can be that good, but everything needs to click together. And I had the same exact freaking concerns last year and they were proven valid. So, I’m hoping that I am wrong on that one. Like, there’s a nonzero chance that we like Pete’s going to start. There’s a non-zero chance that we see Bur and Pete start, but Bur is starting and playing 18 minutes and then we don’t see any of the other freshman, which would be a travesty. An absolute travesty. You’re playing against Florida, maybe the best team in the country right away. I don’t care. It would be a travesty. Before we go, yeah, if we were in a media pickup game against the Phoenix Suns coaches with other media members that cover the Suns. I’m watching Luca tape for like three weeks straight and trying to get to the line cuz I can actually hit free throws. Okay. But I I like Are we playing free throws in this pickup game? I don’t even know if we’re doing that. If we’re not, I’m screwed. We would probably get up. Do you think we would get up four points? The problem is is there’s some like edge to the game. So, normally when I play pickup, people will just leave me alone from three and then I’ll make two of seven. You know what I mean? Like I’ll do that for you, but they’re going to pressure the like Deari Carol will bear will be your Yeah, he would be he will be up in my business. You might have Mscala or something. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Anyway, if you don’t know, those guys were in the league like three years ago. Like there’s the Denver game I think happening today. It’s like Jared was in the league recently. Like JJ Berea wasn’t in the league that too long ago. The Celtics started this thing where they played the media members and also they pulled it on him the day of when they were supposed to be media on media but the coaches played the media. Denver’s media is playing like the coaching staff of Jared Dudley, JJ Berea. Um but yeah, that’s the reference I was making. U and even if Deari Carol was like 15 years post removed from the league, we still wouldn’t have a shot. I don’t really know the track record. It was like a light chatter thing where like Dwayne, I don’t know the hoop status. Like when the Lakers came in, I was giving Dave McMenan crap because he actually does play quite a bit. I know him and Jovon Buha do play. So they’re in a position where I think on their team like they can technically include like Robert Ory and James Worthy and stuff. So those guys are are beyond their playing days of course, way beyond them, but they’d still be in a position to have like the NBA guys out there. I’ll tell you where I’m at. Do we get Tom Chambers? Do we get EJ? Oh, that’s true. He can stand and shoot. I would just run flare screens for EJ every play down. like just put me in front of whoever. I’ll foul the crap out of them. I’ll set the most Andrew Bogot screens of all time for EJ. I can run. I’m in running shape, but that’s not explosive running anymore. And that’s where it’s like I legit have a better chance of probably making an NBA three than a layup if I’m Well, you know, they’re making it a court game. So, I’m out of gas by like 3 minutes in, maybe. And that’s that’s being nice cuz I don’t have the cardio shape for that at all. We’d probably not score four points against the Suns. No. Yeah. Again, like it’s one of those things where this is where you learn that we have we’re humble and know our play. They don’t understand how competitive these people are. Like the longer that zero stays on the screen, the more hyped up they get and the more aggressive with their defense that they’ll get. Like if Demari Carol just hand checked me in the stomach, I would like I would like not be able to move for weeks. You know what I mean? Like the physicality that they would bring. I’m incredibly aware of where I would stand in that game. No shot. All right. I’ll set great screens and I hope I can get to the free throw line. That’s it. I hope any Suns employees listening passes this along to know that we respect you even if we say respect you greatly and your basketball minds basketball is terrible and not just because we are threatened by the possibility of this happening. Yeah. All right. All right. That’s it. We’ll be back I think at some point next week. Maybe uh the weekend, maybe the week after. It’s a weird one where uh we’ve got a season opener. So, if there’s enough juice to talk about after that, maybe. If not, we’ll we’ll go a couple of games in. If you’re new to the pod and you’re around this long, first of all, thank you very much for hanging around. Second of all, that we shoot for once a week, but sometimes timing works out where it’s like, “Ah, do we want a pod after like one game and that’s it, or do we wait for like three or four?” It’s based on feelings and decisions of what we want. All we know is if there’s like a moment where you’re like, “Ooh, we would love to hear the pod now.” We will be there. We will be there for you. We We dare guarantee it. We won’t do like a post Mark Williams not getting signed to an extension pod or anything like that, but we’ll have breakdowns and all that stuff coming throughout the year. So, thank you for uh tuning in and hopefully as you and I uh shared last year and two years, hopefully this is a much more relieving time for you and you’re able to have some fun watching basketball because that’s what I’m looking forward to doing. Have a good rest of your day everyone whenever you’re listening to this. Goodbye.

Devin Booker is the man. Jalen Green and Mark Williams have been slow-rolled. Which rookies and young guys stood out in the preseason and how will they impact the 2025-26 Phoenix Suns?

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