James White explains why the Patriots will NOT give up on TreVeyon Henderson

James White explains why the Patriots will NOT give up on TreVeyon Henderson

What’s up everybody? Welcome in to the next Pats podcast. I’m Phil Perry. Loaded episode for you this week. We’re bringing in our good friend, three-time Super Bowl champion James White to tell us just how impressed he’s been by Drake May through seven games of the 2025 season. but also he’s going to share some insight into how Trayvon Henderson, that guy over my right shoulder, might be feeling right now as a rookie, specifically in this Josh McDaniels offense. How lucky are we that we get to really dig into the past as well as the present when we have players who have played for Josh McDaniels for so many years as White has and so he can lend so much insight into what somebody like Henderson who hasn’t had the start to the season that everybody’s expected from him is going through. Great conversation there. You’re going to want to make sure that you stick around for that. But before we get to it, let’s do a quick update on Drake May’s MVP standing as things stand here today, shall we? Because I think you could make the argument that he should be the front runner. Number one in the league in completion percentage, number one in the league in EPA, expected points added. Now, that includes his scrambles, but no quarterback in football has helped his team score more points than Drake May. He’s also tops in the league when it comes to completion percentage over expectation. So, you can make the argument he’s been the most accurate quarterback in football as well. That to me sums up value at the most valuable position in sports. Now, the question is, is he going to be able to sustain? Can he do this against one of the best defenses in football this weekend in the Cleveland Browns? Unbelievable front there. And the Cleveland Browns are one of the best in football at forcing quarterbacks to get rid of the football quickly. They’re actually second best in the league in terms of time to throw for opposing quarterbacks. 2.63 seconds on average. Opposing quarterbacks got to have the football out of their hands against this Jim Schwarz defense. though. To me, the biggest and most important matchup of this weekend might not even necessarily be Drake May against what the Browns are doing the defensive side. It might be Drake May against his own instincts. He’s so good at pushing the ball down the field. The best in football at throwing the ball 10 yards or more beyond the line of scrimmage. He’s completing 67% of those passes. Unbelievable. Remarkable. But is he going to be able to do that against a front that’s going to get after him? or is he gonna have to be a little bit of that checked down Charlie, which he said he didn’t want to be immediately after the Titans game last week? Is he going to have to be a little bit more comfortable with that quick game and making sure that that football is out of his hands? Is he going to have to be a little bit better than he was in Tennessee of going through his reads at a rapid rate? because there were times where it looked like it was one read and run from Drake May against the Titans and he left some meat on the bone surprisingly on a day when he went 21 for 23. I know it sounds crazy but he said it after the game and he was right if you go back and look at the film. So can he tamp down those instincts to want to be that big game hunter wh which has helped make him as effective and as efficient as he’s been? Does he have to in some ways dial that down just a little bit against an aggressive front in order for this Patriots offense to have success on Sunday? One player who could help him in the short passing game if he gets on the field enough would be Tayvon Henderson. The kind of guy you could throw it short and he could take a nice long run after catch to help your offense. We’ll see. Doesn’t look like things are necessarily trending in the right direction. We’re going to ask our buddy James White that’s happening and what Henderson can do to turn the tide. Let’s get to our chat with James White right now. There he is, the assistant running back’s coach at Illinois as well as one of the co-hosts of the Money Down podcast. James White, thanks so much for being back with us on Next Paths here. It’s great to see you. No problem, man. Appreciate you having me, Phil. Always a good time. James, uh, I don’t know how much you’ve heard about just how next level Drake May has gone, but I know you do pay attention, and I know you’ve been watching. What have you made of his start to this point in the season where it feels like every single week he’s at the top of a new list that includes Dan Marino and Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady. It’s been absurd. Uh, the the streak that Drake May is on through seven games here. It’s been extremely impressive. He looks in control, not trying to do too much, taking the profit, scrambling, you know, being decisive, seeing the coverages extremely well, you know, great deep ball accuracy, and he I I knew Josh McDaniels would be great for him, but I think he’s even exceeding my expectations in his second year, you know, about halfway through the season. So, it’s been a lot of fun to watch. It’s remarkable the down the field stuff that we’ve seen, James, and you played obviously with the greatest of all time in Tom Brady, but I saw a number today that said his passer rating on throws that go 10 yards or more beyond the line of scrimmage is actually the best in the NFL if the season were to end today, which I know it won’t, but the best in the NFL. He’s over 140 with the quarterback rating, and that actually is the best since they started tracking this in 2016. since 2016 when Tom Brady I thought should have been MVP that year. He wasn’t cuz he missed the first four games of the season suspended. But you were part of that team. How dialed in must Drake Bay Drake May be right now if he’s that accurate down the field based on just how intimately you were involved with Tom Brady throwing the ball down the football back in 2016. That just means he’s he’s comfortable with the game plans. He knows where his reads are pre- snap, post snap. And you can see when he’s throwing the ball, it’s extremely effortless. He’s seeing the coverages, whether he has to check it down, whether he has to, you know, get a whole shot and cover two, which he’s done quite a few times this year. It’s been it’s been extremely fun to watch. You’re like, I said I don’t want to like jinx him with the way he’s playing, but he’s playing like a MVP type player right now. And I just hope he continues that throughout the year because the team’s going to go as he goes. is every team you’re going to go, you know, as well as your quarterback is playing, but Josh has been doing a great job with them. And I think the players around them are playing well, too. Each week is somebody different making an impact on the game. James, I just got finished saying that, you know, I do think as well as Drake May’s playing eventually this season, I think he’s going to need Tayvon Henderson. I I think he’s going to need that outlet. I know Randre Stevenson can catch the football too, but I think just having that explosive option where you can throw it maybe a yard or maybe even behind uh the the line of scrimmage and and maybe end up getting a big play from that could end up being critical to this team’s chances as they play uh more competitive games towards the end of the season. What do you think Trayvon Henderson needs to do in order to show the coaching staff that that he’s an indispensable piece to this offense? Because it feels like his role has been going in the wrong direction the last couple of weeks here. Well, I think you just continue to show it in practice, in the meeting rooms, be able to translate, you know, what they’re implementing in the game plan and the walkthroughs, executing in practice, and then when you get your opportunities, whether it’s one, whether it’s five, whether it’s 10 snaps in the game, whether it’s protection, you know, catching the ball, running the ball, you just make the most of the opportunities that you get. And I said, he hasn’t played a ton over the last several weeks, but I don’t think it’s really that big of an issue. I think last week in Tennessee the the emphasis was to get the run game going. You can tell on the first drive they gave Raandre a ton of carries to get the game going because they wanted to establish a run game. It hadn’t been going great, you know, so far this year. So, they probably lean into Raandre a little bit more. As as we all know, like with Josh, our game plan was always kind of a a week toe thing. So, he may not have played that much this past week. Maybe next week he gets a ton of snaps. It just all depends how they want to attack the defense they’re going up against. So, I don’t I don’t think maybe necessarily it’s a trust issue. I think it’s just a a game plan thing and eventually his time will come. Like I said, whether it’s this year, whether it’s next year, whatever it may be, because look, I I didn’t play much my rookie year. I didn’t play really until like halfway through my second year. So, and I know like Shane Varine was kind of a a similar type of thing. Didn’t play necessarily, you know, too much in his first year. That’s just the way it goes for some guys. some rookies come in and make a immediate impact right away, which you know, most of us expected him to do, but I’m sure at some point his number get called a lot. Well, and like you, you know, I’m speaking to a record setting back in the Big 10, right? Who who made the leap to the pro game and like you said, didn’t play much right away. Tvan Henderson had an unbelievable career at Ohio State. you know, he’s a second round pick and so I think that is leading to some of the expectations that have been heaped on his shoulders early in his career, but just how different even coming from the Big 10, right? That’s that’s the highest level, you know, it’s Big 10 and SEC, like you you assume those guys are essentially playing like, you know, minor league NFL football as collegians and then, okay, maybe the speed of the game ain’t all that different once they become pros, but how much different is it? How much different was it for you uh going from Wisconsin to the Patriots? Obviously, you know, Big 10, those conferences, really good football players, but as once you get into the NFL, it’s like all the best players from all those conferences are all, you know, on teams and you got veteran guys that have played a long time and everybody’s smarter. Everybody knows how to attack your weaknesses and that things of the nature. So, you just try to find ways to improve your game, you know, prove your or build the trust in your teammates and the coaching staff to show that you can go out there and do it. So, it takes time, man. It’s hard for I know rookies have come in and took the lead by storm in year one, but it it’s harder to walk in there and expect guys to just dominate from, you know, week one going forward. So, I say I think he’s extremely talented. He’s going to be a great football player for the organization whether it’s this year, next year, you know, where whenever his time comes. I just think everybody’s had lofty expectations based on where he was drafted and what we saw on tape. But it will happen if at some point. Well, and in the passing game, that’s where he was, you know, not only was he drafted high, but he was so impressive this summer. And it wasn’t just, you know, checkdowns or little outlets or, you know, screen game. It was down the field. He’s making plays in practice in some of these preseason games. And I know James, hopefully this gives you, you know, a little boost, a little pep in your step uh on right before you’re about to head out to practice for Illinois. But he told me just the other day he watched a ton of James White film and man, it just felt like he told me that guy was creating separation every time he was asked to run a route. He was in awe of James White and so he’s tried to implement some of your moves into his game. Uh what does that mean for you? And and do you see him being able to eventually when he’s given the opportunity execute on those types of routes that you were able to run? Of course. That’s pretty cool, man. Uh you know, whenever a young player is is watching your tape to find ways to improve his game, that’s always extremely extremely dope. And I did the same thing with with Shane Bare, with you know, Dion Lewis, with you know, the Danny Woodheads, the Kevin Fox, all those guys. you know, whether it’s Josh showing the tape or myself watching the tape of what they what they’ve done in the past and how we can implement it in our offense. I mean, the more you can learn, the better. And like I said, he’s way more explosive. He’s faster, you know, than than I ever was than I ever will be. So, look, he can he can really take it to a whole another level because he has the speed and the explosiveness to take it, you know, 70 80 yards at any given point. So, he’s got what it takes, man. It’ll, like I said, it takes time at at times and when this opportunity comes, I know he’ll be ready. Well, and as he’s trying to get himself ready to contribute as a receiver, he also has to be ready to contribute as a pass protector, too. That was something that you were asked to do a whole lot of. Um, just speaking to him a little bit earlier this year was something that I think he felt a little bit frustrated by just because that was such a strength of his game and you and I talked about it right after he was drafted, just how physical he was as a pass protector and burying guys, you know, linebackers, putting them in the dirt. What was or what do you think, James, especially in this Josh McDaniels offense? What’s the most challenging part of being a pass protector at that position? Is it just the sheer physical nature of it and 250 lb linebackers with a head of steam coming at you or is it the mental side and understanding where to be and win? What did you find to be the biggest challenge in that phase of the game for you? Well, I don’t think it’s too much mentally, but once you get the all the adjustments from the offensive line and all the adjustments that you have as running backs and whether it’s you’re actually pass protecting or whether you’re free releasing, you know what you need to look for if you’re hot and all that stuff. Once you get that down pack, then it just sure comes down to getting the job done of blocking the guy who’s in front of you or blocking the DB who’s blitzing, you know, across the line of scrimmage, which he did an excellent job at in college. And I I did the same thing. I was a good pass protector in college, but once I got to the NFL my rookie year, I wasn’t as good, but because obviously there’s better players, guys know how to, you know, attack, you know, backs and and one-on-one blitz pickup and all that stuff. you you know he has the want to you know he has the physicality to do it but you can’t always he he he went for a lot of knockout shots in college you’re not going to always do that you know in the NFL these guys are especially linebackers now they’re not as big dang near the same size as running backs a lot of times when they’re shifty they know how to use their hands they make moves so it just continue to work on your technique and then once you do it once and once he do does it once you just get that confidence once you do it once in the game then he’s going to just keep it rolling throughout the rest of his career Let’s get really in the weeds with the pass protection thing. This will be the last thing I ask you, James, and now as a coach, I just wonder, you know, what some of the rules are, and I’m sure it differs from place to place, but one thing that I have noticed this year, and it didn’t necessarily happen against the Titans, but in the two games before that, there were a couple of moments where, and it was, I think it was Andre Stevenson on both counts, where he’s cutting a blitzing linebacker. So, the linebacker has a little bit of speed and he’s right in the middle of the pocket and he’s stepping up and he’s getting the guy on the ground, but it’s almost sending shrapnel into the quarterback’s legs, James. And I I wonder, is that something you guys ever talk about in terms of, hey, it’s okay to cut on this area of the field, but we don’t necessarily want to do it here, or is it just we got to get that guy down at all costs. It doesn’t matter how you do it. What’s your philosophy on that? What do you remember Josh McDaniel’s philosophy on that being? Uh for us typically you wouldn’t want to do it in the A gap because you know between the the guard and the center because that’s a lot of time where the quarterback’s setting up to throw the football because if you you cut them then typically the guy’s flipping or falling right at the quarterback’s feet. So yeah, that’s the area where you would try not to do it, you know, most of the time. But at times you get stuck in some, you know, precarious situations where you got no big linebacker, full head of steel, you don’t have much room to react, so that’s your first reaction to cut them. So yeah, I that would be the the one rule when it comes to cutting, but like I said, you got to just kind of know your personnel. Depends on who you’re matching up against to where they may allow it. If you’re blocking a bigger guy and you know you’re smaller like myself, a guy’s 260 lbs coming downhill through the A gap, yeah, there’s there’s going to be a time for the cut, but I think it’s always kind of game plan specific. But when you’re in between those a gaps, I know for us at the time, we typically didn’t do that too much. James White, thank you so much for sharing so much intel with us, especially you’re about to head out to the practice field. Big game, Illinois against Washington this weekend. So, good luck with that. And we’ll see how Trayvon Henderson is able to grow throughout the course of this year. Hey, maybe it’s as early as this weekend against the Cleveland Browns. James White, thanks so much again, buddy. Great to see you. No problem. Thanks for having me. Coming up on Next, Pats, we’re talking who’s next. Let’s look at a pair of potential Patriots draft picks next spring. We’re also talking a little bit of Will Campbell. How’s the number four overall pick performed through seven games? It’s all coming up next on Expats. Welcome back to Next Paths. Let’s get to our who’s next segment. This is where we’re talking about draft prospects in the 2026 NFL draft and guys that might be able to specifically help your New England Patriots and specifically in the early rounds. It seems like we talk about receivers every single week. And this week will be no different because we’re talking about Chris Bell, the wide receiver from Louisville. And if you watched Chris Bell and those Louisville Cardinals against Miami last week, you know this guy can play. 6’2, 220 lbs. The definition of a Yak monster during this Halloween season. All kinds of appropriate that we would be talking about a Yak monster right now because he is physical, he’s explosive, he can be a vertical threat for you as well. He might not be the most refined route runner you’ve ever seen, but maybe he can grow into that part of playing receiver at the next level while he’s at the next level because right now what he is in terms of the physical traits is a guy who ran a 22 and a half second 200 meter in high school. This guy can scoot with that frame. Uh it’s working as things stand. 10 catches for 135 yards and a touchdown against Pit, 12 catches for 170 yards and two touchdowns against UVA. And then that Miami game, nine grabs, 136 in terms of the receiving yardage and two more scores earlier this month. This is the kind of player who, especially in an offense where you might see more West Coast concepts moving forward, could really light it up. Is he your dbo Samuel? Guy who obviously helped change the game when he was inserted into that Kyle Shanahan scheme in San Francisco as a yards after catch threat. Not thought of as the greatest route runner coming out of South Carolina back in 2019. But can Chris Bell maybe even be a bigger and maybe even more explosive version of that type of player? That’s the archetype that we’re talking about here with Chris Bell an intriguing intriguing candidate to be added to the Patriots next spring. Our next player in our who’s next segment this week is Trey Zun III left tackle out of Texas A&M. Now you’re saying to yourself, left tackle? Thought the Patriots already had one of those. Well, turns out, tell me if you’ve heard this before, he looks like more of a guard at the next level due in part to his length. And that’s something the Patriots might be able to use. Remember Jared Wilson was a center at Georgia. It feels as though he could still be, even though he’s playing every snap at left guard right now, he could still be the center of the future for the New England Patriots. So, are you looking for somebody to be that left guard of the future between Wilson and Campbell? To me, Zoo would be a real candidate to play in that kind of role for New England. six foot seven, 315 pounds, and he is the kind of player in terms of his efficiency, but also his character that I think Mike Vrabel would really love. Let’s get to the efficiency first. He is, as things stand right now, the highest graded draft eligible pass blocking tackle in college football according to Pro Football Focus. He’s allowed one sack to this point in the season, only four total pressures. That’s on 28 total dropbacks. that is excellent across the board. No sacks for this group and he’s a captain for this team at Texas A&M. They had all five guys on that offensive line returning in 2025. They haven’t allowed a sack in the last two games against Florida and Arkansas. Zoo is a big part of that. He’s also played 35 snaps at center this year. So, you already have seen him kick inside and be able to handle some different types of players on the interior. Now, let’s get to the character. Trey Zun has been named to the Jason Whitten Collegiate Man of the Year watch list. This is an award that every single year is honoring leadership, integrity, and courage on and off the field. That sounds like a verbal type to me. He could be a Patriots pick next spring. Speaking of the offensive line, instead of diving into the mailbag, got the written version of that on NBCportsboston.com. As always, make sure you can go and check that out if you haven’t already. But there is one Patriots offensive lineman that we all should be watching extremely closely when the Patriots host the Cleveland Browns this coming weekend. And of course, it’s Will Campbell who has the unfortunate opportunity, let’s call it what it is, to see arguably the best pass rusher in football aligning across from him on a regular basis in Miles Garrett. Unlike Max Crosby, unlike TJ Watt, Miles Garrett loves to align on the offensive left side of the line. Those other guys and some of the best pass rushers in football, quite frankly, like to line up across from right tackles. Not the case this week. Miles Garrett still as good as ever. 13 quick pressures this season. That’s tied for fifth in the NFL. And remember, a quick pressure is a pressure that occurs in two and a half seconds or less from the time the ball is snapped. His 7.1 quick pressure rate, according to NextGen stats, that’s the eighth highest among all edge rushers with at least 100 rushes this season. He has developed an inside move this season that feels as though it’s borderline unstoppable. the amount of ground he can eat up because of his length and because of his athleticism and his explosiveness. He simply, as Will Campbell told me earlier this week, does some things that other guys can’t do. Now, Will Campbell did hold his own against a premier pass rusher who does like to align on the left. And Joey Bosa back in Buffalo earlier this season, the win of the season to this point for the New England Patriots, didn’t allow a sack, allowed just two pressures. And that week he was the 10th best graded left tackle according to Pro Football Focus. So that’s a player who’s playing well this year. Joey Bos when he’s out there and he’s rushing the passer, he has been efficient and Will Campbell handled it and he has for the most part handled his job this season. 14th according to PFF when it comes to run blocking grade, 14th when it comes to pass blocking grade. This is among left tackles in the NFL and he’s 15th in terms of his overall offensive grade. You have to love that if you’re the New England Patriots. If Will Campbell can be a middle of the road starting left tackle as a rookie, that’s a win. It is. And I know it’s a small sample size, but through seven games, it feels as though that pick at number four overall that so many people question. And we talked about it so frequently on this podcast and elsewhere. And we tried to give you all, our audience, as much intel, as you needed when it came to understanding just how important arm length was or wasn’t. Remember that conversation we had with Dante Scaria who said, “It’s not all about the length.” And if you have the technique and you have everything else in terms of intelligence, in terms of toughness, in terms of athleticism, you can be just fine. especially coming out of the, as Scari likes to call it, the Southeastern Conference, which Will Campbell was and was an all-American in the Southeastern Conference for Louisiana State University. You could be just fine so far. Will Campbell has been just fine. Wanted to play for you. A quick clip from Will Campbell. I asked him earlier this week if he felt as though he had proved the doubters wrong. Here’s what he had to say. I mean, if you want me to be completely honest with you, I was never trying to prove them right. Uh, I know uh that I was chosen here for a reason. Uh, so it was never really about proving anybody who said that my arms were too small or wrong. I was just coming here to try to help this team and, you know, uh, uh, just want to keep continuing to do that uh, each and every week in any way that I can. But I’m really not worried about what anybody else has to say. Still too early to have those short arm related jokes and stuff between us or no? No, I mean it was never too early. I don’t really like someone sent in the mail a T-Rex. I don’t know where it is, but a plastic T-Rex to my locker, but I thought it was funny. So, there you have it. No victory laps from Will Campbell. At least not yet. He probably understands that it’s early. It’s only been seven games, and he probably understands that it hasn’t been perfect. It’s interesting if you actually look at some of the numbers from NextGen stats, paints a little bit of a different picture than the one we got from Pro Football Focus. According to NextGen stats, Campbell has allowed a team high 27 pressures on 253 pass blocks this season. And 11 of those pressures have been quote unquote quick again in 2 and 1/2 seconds or less. So, you’re going to have to help him out a little bit. You’re going to have to mix up your pitches if you’re Josh McDaniels in terms of the types of protections you’re calling, whether you want to give him that jam or that slam from the running back or the tight end. That’s what they call it in that McDaniels offense. If those guys are chipping on the edge, do you want to slide the protection a certain way? Do you just want to run Drake May and roll him out away from Miles Garrett in order to help Will Campbell that way? Those are the kinds of things you have to be thinking about. But if Campbell can maintain this level of play where it looks like he’s about a league average tackle at one of the most important positions in football as a rookie, you will take that 10 times out of 10. All right, that’ll do it for this edition of the Next Pats podcast. Thanks so much to James White for joining us, telling us a little bit about what Trayvon Henderson is going through in his rookie season, telling us just how impressed he’s been by Drake May. Great stuff as always from James White. Thank you for watching, for listening. We’ll be right back here next week to talk about whatever it was that happened between the Patriots and the Browns. We’ll be looking ahead as well as we always do here on the next Pats podcast. We’ll talk to you next time.

How do the Patriots get TreVeyon Henderson more involved? Phil Perry talks with Patriots legend James White to get his take on why we should have patience with the rookie. Later, we break down potential future Patriots, and give Will Campbell the credit he deserves.

1:00-Drake Maye now third-best odds to win 2025 NFL MVP
4:30-James White: Fun to watch Maye exceed expectations
6:30-How do the Patriots get TreVeyon Henderson more involved?
16:00-Who’s Next: Possible future Patriots in the NCAA
22:00-Giving Will Campbell the credit he deserves

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