MASON “RAYMOND” APPLETON – RED WINGS WIN STREAK & RAYMOND’S INJURY – Winged Wheel Podcast – Oct. 16

MASON “RAYMOND” APPLETON – RED WINGS WIN STREAK & RAYMOND’S INJURY – Winged Wheel Podcast – Oct. 16

[Music] Welcome to the Wing Wheel Podcast, the number one source for news, analysis, and discussion on the Detroit Red Wings, the NHL, and all things hockey. Here are your hosts, Ryan Hannah, Brad Krisco, and Evan Lopsinger. [Music] See, I just thought Evan was being benevolent when he said, “Oh, let’s see what Steve Dangle’s doing when he realized there’s an extra ticket to the Leafs Red Wings game in Toronto on Monday.” And I was like, “Oh, yeah, maybe Steve would want to come.” You have a very nice connection who only through your role of Dex can get you 100 level seats. Yeah. And I thought, “Yeah, you know what? Steve would want to come.” And how nice of Evan to offer that seat to Steve. Steve graciously accepted. And Steve Dangle, our good friend, didn’t realize that he was walking into the trap of Evan Lobinger just grabbing the back of his head and dunking on him in front of the entire Toronto Maple Leafs crowd at the entire Toronto Maple Leafs crowd as the Red Wings abs like grand lararseny stole those two points. And I don’t know if you saw the clip, Brad, of Evan waving goodbye to the entire crowd in the lower level of that arena. Yeah, I Toronto season tickets are astronomically expensive and impossible to to get. I would pay whatever that cost is just to continue to watch Leaf fans die inside. Whenever I watch games and there’s away fans celebrating really emphatically in the crowd, I’m like, “Yeah, you know what? There’s nothing wrong with it as long as you’re not being a jerk and starting something, but I don’t know that I would be so brave everywhere. Like I don’t go to a lot of away games, right? 99.9% of my games are at the LCA. And then when Detroit scored that third goal and I realized just like how naturally loud we were being in that celebration, I’m like, “No, I get it.” In the moment, you’re like, “Yeah, screw you guys. Sucks to suck.” The lady sitting beside me was a Toronto Maple Leafs super fan. And when I celebrated on the first goal, her her and her entire family were disgusted that we were sitting beside them cuz I didn’t I you know me, no jersey or anything. They probably just thought I was a Leaf fan out on Thanksgiving Monday. Yeah, you weren’t wearing a suit. No, that’s true. That’s true. And when I celebrated that first goal, they were not thrilled to be sitting near us. They probably sat down. They’re like, “Oh, thank goodness. It’s just a Toronto cryptobillionaire next to us, not an opposing fan. Two thoughts that could have made this better or worse. And then another fun challenge for Evan. One, based on the Leafs record against the Red Wings over the last 10 years, risky bet you made inviting Steve to that one. Yeah, odds were not in your favor, but that is the Red Wings fourth victory over the Leafs in the last two weeks. So may maybe I’m wrong on that one. Two, we should have a fun game. We send you to to every rink in the NHL to do this. We’d have to put Philly near the end so you actually survive because we would be like the robot. The robot that traveled North America. Do you remember that? Yes. There was a robot that was supposed to be like the hitchhiking robot. That’s what it was. And it was doing great and it made it to Philly and they found it beat up down the side of the road. That’d be us. Yeah. We’d have to do Philly and Boston last, right? Yes. A thousand%. Yes. Or you do one of them first and you’re like, “Well, we survived that.” That’s right. The rest should be okay. Except for the last one. There’s no way we don’t start you in Montreal. Oo, yeah. That’s a That’s a sleeper Boston Philly. But if you survive that, you’re getting through anything. Okay. That’s that’s baking soda and vinegar. Evan in Montreal. I don’t know why we’re in this game. With apologies to Steve Dangle. We can’t wait to invite you out again for the live LFR at the arena cataloging the the disappointment. That was a lot of fun. Folks, welcome to the Wing Wheel Podcast. Here to talk to you about all things Detroit Red Wings hockey, the world of the NHL, and lots more. I’m one of your hosts, Ryan Hannah. I’m Brad Krisco. And I’m Evan. This episode of the Winding Wheel Podcast is presented by Greenlight Lending. Red Lights are meant for lighting the lamp at the rink, not your home ownership goals. Head to go greenlightending.com today for creative mortgage solutions with flexible closing cost options. Licensed only in Michigan, NMLS 267683 and Equal Housing Opportunity Lender. On this episode of the Wind Wheel podcast, we’re going to be covering the Detroit Red Wings wins against Toronto and Florida. Storylines from those games, Talbett, Mason Raymond Appleton, Raymond’s injury, what that means for the team moving forward, the the shakeup of the lines, how the kids have been doing, Alex de Brinket, special teams, Talbot and Gibson as a duo, all of that and lots more. We have NHL news in terms of a contract extension which may relate to a Red Wings future contract extension and whatever else we get to before overtime. Very quickly, Wingill podcast night at the LCA. Tickets are going fast. After every win, we get a rush of tickets bought and once they’re gone, they’re gone. So, wingpodcast.com/redwings to get your tickets. Saturday, November 15th, it’s the game against Buffalo. Those tickets are not just tickets to the Red Wings game at a discounted rate. There are also access to the Winged Wheel podcast at the LCA pregame live recording of the show featuring Ken Daniels, Rob Ray, and other special guests. You also get a free Detroit Red Wings and Wing Wheel podcast co-branded Centennial themed blanket. It’s a sweet design with our 10th anniversary logo and the Red Wings Centennial logo. There’s merch, giveaways, meet and greet, all that and lots more. And every ticket represents a donation to the Jamie Daniels Foundation. So again, Wingville podcast.com/red Wings headed into Toronto Thanksgiving Monday in Canada or as the States likes to call it, Monday. And it was a 2 p.m. game. It was originally supposed to be a 4 p.m. It was a 2 p.m. game that was moved up because of the ALCS game one, which we’re not going to talk about anymore because my heart hurts. But still, actually, Toronto’s heart hurt that day overall between the Jays, the Leafs, and then the Bills for for Toronto sports fans. But the Red Wings take on the Leafs. And that was October hockey. That was that was the kind of hockey where nobody wanted to do anything once they made it through the neutral zone, which they they didn’t do that well. Ugly, ugly, messy, sloppy game. And Detroit was undoubtedly the worst of the two teams. That was a tough watch. Ah, you you talk about pretty fun in person. Maybe in the last minute. You’re talking about getting through the neutral zone and then nothing happening. Were we watching the same game? They never got to the neutral zone half the time. That’s what I mean. Yeah. Whenever they do it. Yeah. The DZone turnovers were unbelievable. just more so Detroit than Toronto, but both teams were bad for it. Yeah. And oh, I don’t even know how to describe that. I was getting angry watching it even when the Red Wings were up. Like, it was just this game was going to screw us over because it’s the argument for why you can’t reduce the preeason because holy hell, neither of those teams look like they remembered how to play hockey. I’ll take it though. I I would much rather take this game than a longer preseason. No, I agree. But you know, there’s some executive who’s watching that and just calling Bman going, “See, do you see?” Yeah. And it was a poor effort. Like, I can understand mistakes. It’s going to happen. You know, if you’re timing on some quick passes or a breakout or, you know, when to jump out of coverage or into coverage, it’s it’s tough. Like that does take, you know, games upon games upon games to get your timing right. The Red Wings looked lazy. Like it wasn’t even that they were sloppy. They their effort was poor. It was the matinea Red Wings. Yeah, it was looked like that. There were just plays where they had to take one extra step to be able to make a play and instead they would just kind of reach and swing with one hand to try to tip a pass or get the puck off a player. And then of course these are NHL size players with NHL strength who would just brush them off because when you’re reaching with one hand it’s not all that difficult to defend against. And their skating was poor, their forche was poor, their back pressure was poor. It was just and again I know they weren’t actually probably being lazy. They’re still NHL players so lazy is oversimplifying it. That’s really what it looked like. Red Wings are extremely lucky that Toronto was also off their game because I think if Toronto was on their game with the clinical finishers that they have on that team, it could have gotten pretty ugly pretty quickly. But you know what? you can you’re only playing the team that’s against you that night and I guess that afternoon and Toronto was was equally as discombobulated, disjointed, just no real sense of willingness to try and win that game. It was the end of the first period and Detroit went on a power play which turned into a five on three. And even actually before it was a 513, Steve looked at me and we had been talking about how Toronto had been largely carrying the game as much as a team could to that point. And he goes, “You know what’s coming, right?” I was like, “Yeah, I I didn’t want to be a jerk, but yeah, we all know what’s coming.” Dylan Lens scores on the back end on the power play and Detroit heads to the first intermission up a goal, which was it it was extremely funny. And then the second period was I’d call that the Red Wings worst period of the season. The on the road, you know, like the the long change. This is a their first real tough test in terms of what the schedule can throw at them. And it wasn’t like on a backto-back, but still like a lot of young players on the team. It’s October hockey. That second period was bad. And the Red Wings survived because Cam Talbot was playing out of his damn mind. One of the best games I’ve seen Cam Talbet play as a Redwing. And that’s a extremely high bar to clear. Like he was absolutely lights out. And the Toronto crowd was incredulous. Like they they could not believe what they were watching. Part of that was, you know, bad finishing and and I think wasted opportunities, but really as as Toronto started to heat up, they started to really find their form and Detroit just didn’t really have very many moments of of pushing back. That was Cam Talbot’s game. And the turnovers were continuing and it was for up and down the lineup. It was from everyone. And in the third period, rather than Toronto breaking through first, it was James Van Remdikeke on a break the other way in his Red Wings debut. Has a puck on his back hand for the entire time being challenged by the defender. C like does a little, you know, body head fake, whatever. Pretends like he’s going to pass to create himself just the smallest amount of room to last second pivot to his forehand and bury it. That was a one, a gorgeous finish, and two, what a hell of an entrance to his his time as a Detroit Red Writings fan. And three, I want everyone to have heard what I heard where Steve goes, “Oh my god, who was that?” JVR? Really? Of all people, that was JVR who did that to us? That was poetry. He couldn’t tell it was JVR when the slowest partial breakaway in NHL history was unfolding. The green mouthguard goes crawling by. Listen, I love JVR and I understand his strengths and weaknesses. Look, man, that guy was never a fast skater in his prime and at his age, it’s it’s gone. Hands are the last thing to go though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the smarts as well. He’s he’s been effective and it was a great goal. But that’s one of those ones where I think it was Morgan Riley on the back check kind of was half pregnant on his defense there. It’s like you’re either taking the puck or you’re taking the pass. and he really sold out to neither till it was too late. Yeah. All I’m hearing is that Riley and Stolars shouldn’t have let that in. And JVR is just that dude for finishing it. That’s exactly what it is. Yeah. Detroit goes up two nothing. And then the Leafs actually rally back. They finally break through. Is Matthew Ny who was essentially just a backboard from a pass from McMahon and then Cali Yarn who who buried it to tie it 22. And I’ll tell you at that point there wasn’t a lot of confidence. I was like maybe the Redskins can escape with one point cuz it was again it was a Cam Talbot game. Even with two goals against that was a Cam Talbot game. And Mason Appleton who has now ascended to the first line cuz Lucas Raymond has left the game at that point after a hit from Tanv just looked like an awkward crunch along the boards was holding his shoulder arm kind of thing. Mason Appleton scores with under a minute left. our hero. I’ve never, you know, like you saw him on the top line and I remember thinking, “Ah, I mean, that’s what you have to do, but it’s not ideal.” And then he scored and I yelled at Evan. I’ve never once questioned Mason Appleton on the top line. If you dropped a pin in that crowd, it actually might have been too loud. It might have hurt people’s ears. Like I said, people died inside. That was I mean incredible effort but that was the most stolen game I’ve seen and Detroit wins it 3 to2. Final shots were 40 to 15 for the Leafs. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. As as Steve told us in the live recorded LFR right from the arena. I don’t know why he went home and bothered to record one. We brought it to to the fans. Mason up to he that was actually the first of two goals that he scored whilst falling down which is one of the coolest ways to score. He’s been watching that Brett Hall game tape. Oh hell yeah. First line Mason Appleton just gave it to him. He’s going to rip it. Full send body grunt. Feet in the air falling in style. Couple good finishes though. Yeah. Didn’t know he had it in him. And you know what? We’ll talk about it. He has been like it’s obviously not ideal circumstances but that guy has I think really seized the moment in this limited run of minutes that he’s had on the first line like a game and a half here and at no point there was like a couple shifts right off the start where I’m like yeah Lark and Finny Appleton looks disjointed because that’s not a line that actually plays together or practices together but he found his groove and you can see him think his way through playing on that line and how he adjusted his game. I’ve I’ve I liked and appreciated the effort quite a bit from Appleton. Not that he’s going to score every single game. I mean, well, that would be very helpful to the playoff push, but how many times has the Red Wings had an injury to a key player and then up trots glue guy number six and they put up one point in 25 games. Are you referring to Adam Ernie? I will not be referring to Adam Ernie in that that manner, but it’s nice to see someone move up the lineup and contribute on the score sheet for once. So, if you thought Detroit shouldn’t have seated that first game against Montreal, they absolutely stole those points back against Toronto and they made it two straight wins against Toronto, a home and home. And they headed into Wednesday night with a two-1 record against the Panthers. As we found out, Lucas Raymond, who skated in the morning skate, didn’t take part in line rushes, was considered dayto-day. And that was actually a big win because Raymond’s injury could have been bad. It looked like it could have been something worse. You know, when I initially saw what happened, I was like, “Yeah, that’s just one of those awkward crunches from Tanv. I don’t think it was a malicious hit. It was just, you know, split second Raymond decided to turn and and Tanv was committing.” And that play happens a ton in every game. And then I watched it in slow-mo and I looked a little bit more on the numbers in slow-mo and I remember thinking, uh, was this something? And I ran it past the group chat actually. But the consensus seems to be like, no, this is it’s just one of those things that that happens. It was an unfortunate it maybe it was a you can make the case for a boarding call or whatever, but it was just one of those plays. Happens a hundred times a game. It’s just weird angle, weird timing, and anytime it’s a shoulder, you you flinch. At least I do. Yes, you do. it cuz the slightest thing with your shoulder can be a bruise or 6 to 8 weeks and the difference between those two in terms of impact is minimal. So you never know. So and of course the Red Wings not practicing the next day made it worse cuz we had to wait the extra day to get any updates. So not not ideal in a lot of ways. Some other takeaways from that first game and I made a point of calling this out quite a bit because there’s a lot of focus on Axel Sandine Pelica but that was a pretty mixed bag game for him and that was a very you know he’s an all events player like if stuff per 60 it feels like Axel Sandine Pelica is one of the higherend in terms of rookies that we’ve seen in a long long time like he’s all over the place he plays all situations he plays north of 20 minutes a night for obvious reasons you’re going to notice him out there but that’s also his play style he had a tough one he had some moments where I thought he redeemed himself and made some really good plays. It it didn’t look like the game got away from him where he completely gave up, but he had some, you know, some turnovers, some very rookie mistakes, the the failed clear that led right to the tying goal kind of thing. Like there’s a lot that he would have had from that game to take away in terms of tape to watch that, you know, that the team is going to very rightly and easily point to and be like, “Yeah, here’s the stuff that we work on.” But it doesn’t seem to have changed, for good reason. and doesn’t seem to have changed the calculus on him, which is, yeah, this stuff’s going to happen. Here’s how you’ll learn how to eradicate it while still maintaining all the things that make you special. But you just here’s what makes you a pro. Better he gets it out of the way now. His biggest strength can lead to his weaknesses. Cuz I found, especially in that game, like it’s happened every game to different extents, but that game was particularly bad. His biggest strength is how patient and smart he is with the puck. Well, this is NHL pace now. You can be patient, but you can’t be as patient as you were on the big ice in the SHL. And there were times he got the puck in the Dzone, and you could see he was slowing it down, looking to make the play, trying to let the play unfold in front of him, and by the time he went to make the play, it was too late. Mhm. So, it’s just going to be learning and evolving to how to get out of those situations when it doesn’t evolve in front of you as quickly as you’d like. Is that a glassing out? Is that a get your feet moving just to get to a different position? And again, depending on the circumstance, the right answer is going to be different every time. But, you know, it’s one of the reasons we talk about you got to break in the rookies earlier than later sometimes because I’d much rather he make this mistake now than a call up in March when the Red Wings are in the middle of a playoff push. And he’s not going to learn to not do those things in the NHL until he screws him up in the NHL. You know, the only way you can learn certain things about the game of hockey is screwing it up in a game. Mhm. because once you do it once, usually it doesn’t happen a hell of a lot of times after. And good on Mlullen for continuing to trust him because again, I still think the positives in his first four games are far outweigh the negatives. But you can see the things he’s struggling with and it’s getting a little bit better game by game, shift by shift. And that’s all you can hope for because by the time, you know, the new year rolls around, a lot of these wards will have worked their way out and then he can maybe build some more confidence and try some more things cuz I still think he’s riding the break a little bit. We’re not seeing a lot of the truly dynamic things that he’s done. Even though he’s been good and steady and, you know, you can see the flashes of the skill, we haven’t really seen him try anything yet, if you know what I mean. Yeah. There’s way more to that player than just, you know, logging the minutes and being steady. Like he can make a difference on any given play. Exactly. And it’s good that the Red Wings have Mlullen now because he seems to understand, yeah, I’m putting three rookies in the lineup. They are not going to be flawless. I And he does not expect them to be perfect because there’s no way they can. And it’s not like a lot of other organizations and a lot of different eras of the Red Wings where all right well we’re trying to make the playoffs. Oh, that was a pretty bad mistake. He’s out next game. Yeah. But yeah, so it’s good to see cuz all three of the rookies, and I’m sure we’ll talk about them all, have made their mistakes, but they’re not getting scared to keep playing because of what’s going to happen when they make those mistakes. Yeah, when you skip Grand Rapids, you got to take into account that you’re going to integrate what was going to happen in Grand Rapids. And you put it perfectly, like he’s been given the leeway to allow these things to happen and grow. And if he if he wasn’t a fast learner, if he just, you know, developed at a normal pace for rookies, then it would still be totally fine. And I I still think they’d be on the right track. However, he is a fast learner and he develops quick. And I do think that he’s shown, you know, an exceptional skill to be able to adjust things on the fly, so to speak. And I don’t know that it’s going to take that long for him to work these out of his game. He is not Mo Cider, but just as a comparison, if you remember Mo Cider’s rookie season, he had a turnover issue. There was just like a decision-m thing where it was not, you know, an error that was reasonable or you’re like, “Yeah, he was just in a tough position.” It was kind of like unforced errors like you didn’t need to do that. I still remember the one Mo Sider had in Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. And spinama pass across the blue line right to a leaf breakaway and it was like you weren’t that concerned cuz one he was being asked to do a lot and two you know that’s just a normal progression of a defenseman. So, it’s good and it’s unsurprising that Mlullen, who’s very much been there, done that, which is a nice change of pace, is unsurprised by, you know, how things are progressing and giving things the the time and the runway to play out. Well, even from a coaching standpoint, too, are are you getting more out of your next option, right? Like, does the good outweigh the bad? ASPNy, they’re going to have their mistakes. They also bring a lot of positives. Who would you be replacing them with right now? Because if you stapled ASP to the press box for that Florida game because of that Toronto game. Even if ASP replicated the exact same game, that’s still probably better than what Travis Hamick’s giving you. Still probably better than what Justin Hall or Ericson is getting you. Well, yeah. Like I I think Mlullen knows that. Exactly. Exactly. So heading into the Florida game, Mason Appleton retains his topline role and that’s a nationally broadcast game. And I can I can’t tell you how happy it made me for that joke to come full circle. the fact that they kept calling Lucas Raymond Mason Raymond on on national broadcast and then Mason Appleton takes Lucas Raymond’s spot on the top line and Mason Appleton opens scoring with yet another sweet falling in style goal off a pass from from Dylan Larkin. That guy man, how did Mlen He called him a pinch hitter? It’s like he he came in he’s come into that spot really going to use that after the Tigers demise. He’s going to say pinch hitter. Well, they didn’t use a pinch hitter when they needed one. So, maybe it was a a message to AJ Hinch to say, “Hey, you see how well this works.” There’s no offseason anymore for Tom McClullen. He’s going to be a a major league bench boss, too. There are going to be a chorus of people who would actually take that as a a real good advice. And you know what? Like, I think Mlullen could pull it off. Appleton seizing that that moment on the line and then adds the empty netter later on. So for three goals in two games doesn’t have for obvious reasons he doesn’t have Lucas Raymond to work with on the other side and no disrespect to EMTT Finny but you now have two kind of energy guys really good skaters but two guys kind of completing the same role without the elite puck distributor that Lucas Raymond is and Dylan Larkin’s obviously no slouch in that that department but you wouldn’t have blamed Mason Appleton for going in and just you know treading water. It’s a good Honeybadger line. Yeah it is. There’s good feet on that line. They all like to get in on the for check. Like I may would have said this 4 days ago, but I would have said the finishing other than Larkin probably isn’t all that there right now, but um Mason Raymond Appleton is is proving that wrong. So, it’s a line where I can see I don’t know if success is the right word, but it makes some sense and it’s worked at least in the interim. and that you ride it for as long as you can, right? Like whenever you miss a key component of it, a top six line, it most likely won’t work forever, but you don’t need it to. Raymond’s just dayto-day, so hopefully you don’t have to do it for too long. Your second line’s a buzzsaw, so you can just rely on them more. And they’re pretty uniquely shaped puzzle pieces, right? like Patrick Kane is just such an unreal asset for the Red Wings to have and they need to give him exactly what he needs to maximize that around him. So you don’t want to disrupt that. So yeah, I I think it makes sense and something we probably underestimated is Mason Appleton came from a team that has been winning relatively speaking in the Winnipeg Jets. And so like I watched a lot of Jets hockey. It’s just, you know, they play later. They’re often on late and so when the Red Wings games are done or if they’re not playing, you know, I have something on in the evening. A lot of the times it was the Jets. And I saw a lot of Mason Appleton. And I’m not saying he was devoid of offense, but you almost lose sight of how good or how well a player can play on another team because relative to their team, their team is so strong. He gets kind of drowned out in that. And you can see elements of how he’s what he’s bringing from the Winnipeg Jets in terms of adapting his play, a winning play style, a winning culture, what you need to do up and down the lineup because he looks like a different Mason Appleton from the third line one or the the the bottom six Mason Appleton and I think that’s intentional and very intelligent from him. Yeah. He’s a simple player and I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way. It’s nuts and bolts. Exactly. And he’s got a little bit of finishing. So, like Evan said, be strong on the forche. Get to the right areas. Make the simple plays. That’s why you have a Dylan Lurin. He can do the fun stuff. Mhm. He can make the creative plays. He can make You just do what you can do within your skill set to maximize your opportunity. And that’s all he’s done. He’s won puck battles. He’s won some races and he’s got to the right spot at the right time. And there’s even little things to be said for just be ready for the puck. You’re playing with a guy like Dylan Larkin. He is not gonna make the same type of plays and passes that he was used to playing on the third and fourth lines in Winnipeg. So, you know, not that any of his couple goals were like super mega complicated, but the first one in Toronto was a deflection off a shin pad that he leaned right into right away. And the one against Florida was a turnover where it was a quick bang bang pass to the slot and he was ready to hammer it. Just little things like that don’t get pointed out a lot, but you can you can see when guys struggle with it. You know, how many times this year alone, cuz you we’ve joked about the Red Wings having a finishing problem, and I think that problem has actually persisted outside of the second game of the season where they dropped six on Toronto. You know, it’s just simple, honest hockey. That opened scoring in the second period. One- nothing Detroit. And then Patrick Kane on the power play makes it two nothing from Cider and Larkin. Rips home a shot and continues his extremely hot start. Like I said, the Red Wings are really maximizing what he can bring to this team. I think Babsky whiffed on it a little bit, but I think the one thing Kane did there, he was set up pass the whole time he had that puck and then just, you know, turned his hips, turned his wrist, and just ripped it. I don’t think Babroski thought the shot was coming at all. He seems surprised. Mhm. That why is the puck coming at me right now? That was supposed to go to De Brinket or whoever. And it’s just little things like that cuz my first impression of that goal was how the hell does Sergey Babarovski let that in? Kane doesn’t have a bad shot, but he does not have a I’m going to score from the perimeter without a screen type of shot, but if the goalie doesn’t think it’s happening and you get that extra half second advantage on the reaction time, it goes a long way. And I I think that’s literally what Patrick Kane did there. the the puck did slightly deflect off Forsling’s stick, but doesn’t Yeah, it doesn’t change what you said. And you don’t get to 494 goals, so he’s only six away now from from 500 without being smart like that. Like that is just that’s just elite hockey IQ in in the micro seconds that he had. So Brad Marshian made it 2-1 and Florida was challenging. I thought Detroit did well. Like even when Florida challenged, there’s moments where they took over. There’s moments where Detroit took over. All in all, I think that was a good game. Detroit was missing one of, if not their best player on a lot of nights with the defending Stanley Cup champions backto back in their barn. You could have seen Detroit play that game and we have seen Detroit play that kind of game where you’re like, “Yeah, they didn’t play well, but that it was kind of hard cuz they ran into a buzzsaw or whatever.” I think Detroit showed again, it’s early, but they showed again why this team is different and they managed that game even through the adversity a lot better and they hung on to the point where Florida had to pull their goalie and once again Detroit scores two empty net goals. Mason Appleton as we mentioned for the first one from Rasmusen and De Brinket and the second one was Rasmusen while kind of falling talk about falling in style and de Brinket as as well on the assist on that one. That is as good of an example of any this season that we have so far that this Detroit team is at least somewhat different. I don’t think the Red Wings were great in that game against Florida. I don’t think Florida was great either, but I mean, well, that’s all that matters. It’s early season hockey and the game felt like another one of those like, okay, we’re just going to slog it out, slug it out, see who makes less mistakes. But I think the Red Wings effort just they looked quicker that game. I think that was the big difference than the game previous game against Toronto cuz there were still a lot of Dzone blue line turnovers. Andrew Cop particularly had a rough game for that and I think that Copcom comp for NBN line actually had their first really truly weak game of the season. I agree. Yeah. And but it was just they were making up for it better. They were positioning better. They were skating better. They were getting the pucks quicker. There were again points where Florida was doing it better. I still think there was a little too much poke and hope from the Red Wings just swinging with one hand on the stick rather than taking the extra step to catch up or play the body or do whatever. But I just think they did a good job of doing just a little bit more than Florida, just a little bit quicker, a little bit more aggressive, and they caught a good team on an off night and they were able to do enough to win, which again has not happened in previous seasons. The Red Wings play like that like they did last night. 99% of the time over the last 10 years, that’s a loss. But they’re starting to figure out how when they get into these slog fest, well, how do you win them? And I know that sounds like such a stupid statement because it’s really truly saying nothing, but it’s just finding a way to do enough given what you have any given night. That was probably the first real test for the the third line because they haven’t played a team like Florida that has the depth. Yeah, they’re out Barov and Kachchuck, but now actually out now. Well, the Red Wings didn’t have Raymond Durham Hamick. Same thing really essentially equivalent. But Florida is that not prepared for that one. The Florida’s that next man up mentality. And how many times do you see a guy who’s, you know, kind of on the outs with their team go over and is all of a sudden a superstar on Florida? They just put him in the right spot for success. So, it’s not totally surprised that line struggled a bit because they’re matched up against another strong third line. Like, they’re going to have a tough night. Like, there’s there’s not a lot of easy guys to play against on Florida. No. And and that’s I think you both laid out perfectly, Brad Evan, why I think this game was a good sign for Detroit. Cuz you’re right, Brad, that was not a great or perfect game by any means. It’s still a lot of the October mistakes, a lot of high turnover in the team in terms of players changing out leading to a lot of things like turnovers and and inopportune times, but like Evan said, you just kind of hang on. And you know, in game 42, in game 57, in game 29, like those games count for two points just as much as game one and game 82. And through the season, you got to get through the slog fest. It’s the hockey season is long and it’s not a a highlight reel factory. Like there are ugly, grindy, you know, disjointed, no one is gaining the zone cleanly at any point. And the Mason Appletons of the world are the ones making the difference games all throughout the year. And you still got to win those points because when it comes to the end of the season and you you don’t make the playoffs if a onepoint tiebreaker with Washington or one more period of one hockey against Montreal would have made the difference last season, you wish you would have would have won those games or hung on. Like this is the kind of thing where you got to get the wins in the right ways, but you also kind of got to get the wins in the ugly ways. And that’s that’s the beauty of hockey is that sometimes it’s ugly as hell and you playing the right way will garner results. Not every time. Absolutely not every time. If if Talbot wasn’t also unreal again last night, that could have been a loss. Although I like I think Detroit had a lot of opportunities where Babarovski was actually lights out once again. He only let in two goals and it could have been way more. But the just on average you need to be winning more and more of those slog fests and Detroit hasn’t in recent years, but I think they’re showing signs where they can now with how they’re they’re playing and set up. Yeah, to your point, I think the Red Wings straight up missed the net on a lot of A+ chances. Yeah. Well, Larkin had a point blank chance to break it. Had a great one-time that they missed the net on it. It’s get that man an empty net goal now. Didn’t he get like two empty net assists? Yes. He’s like, “Buddy, shoot the puck.” Leads the team in points. Zero goals, six assists. Just how we all drew it up. The inverse Johan Fronzen. What’s Yeah. What’s the opposite of the Anyways, more on that in a little bit. We’re going to take our first quick break here and when we’re back, continue discussion on how the Red Wings are doing. First a word from our sponsors. [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Welcome back. First place in the Atlantic. It’s four games in, but still. That’s probably the latest into a season they’ve been first place in the history of this podcast. No, they they’ve had some runs here where they’ve been up there. So, I don’t want to say for I don’t know for sure, but if I had to guess, it feels it feels like it they don’t feel like frauds sitting there. No, and they I mean they’re in good company with as we all predicted Boston and Montreal in spots two and three as of right now. Buffalo pushing for a divisional seat as well. Buffalo. I took one slight jab at the Buffalo Sabres online, just, you know, light-hearted. And then they go out for eight goals, and I was like, you know, I’m going to start offering my services to team. I’ll show my ass online and and make a fool of myself, and your team will score. They’ll put up a snowman. If Ottawa gets absolutely steamrolled by Buffalo three to four times a year, I I will adopt the Buffalo Sabres as my honorary second favorite team if they keep doing that to the Ottawa Senators. Adam Sandler face, this is how we win. This is how we win. Like, don’t get me wrong, as much as I think a Detroit, Boston, Montreal original six all division seating would be electric, I will happily replace Boston or Montreal with Buffalo if they keep doing that to Ottawa. Now, here’s why the the six points through four games is important. It’s not the fact that the Red Wings are sitting first. That that’s all it’s all so volatile right now. It doesn’t mean anything. But why this is actually important and I don’t think we are you making too big of a deal of this genuinely is that the October schedule is hard for Detroit. Go look at it. It is an exceptionally hard schedule. It’s not an easy thing to to come in and say, “Oh yeah, we’re going to have a hot start.” Montreal is no joke this year. And Detroit found out fast. the Toronto Maple Leafs. Think what you want about them, but they’re still the Toronto Maple Leafs. Detroit stole two points and they won another two. The Florida Panthers are back-to-back Cup champs. After this, they have the Tampa Bay Lightning. They have the Edmonton Oilers. They have Buffalo who just put up an eightpiece later in the the month. Like, they they still have they have a West Coast road trip. still have a lot to get through, but for them to take six of eight points right off the hop against Atlantic opponents, and that could be huge come playoff time if they’re to be a wildcardish team. Someone said in the comments, and I really liked it, you can’t make the playoffs off the first month of games, 10 12 games or so, but you can certainly miss them. And so to get off to a hot start and when those points mean essentially double because they’re against your direct rivals for a playoff spot, that’s what the Red Wings needed. Well, I think if you asked literally any Red Wings fan before the season to you could probably ask any Red Wings coach or anybody in management go look at your October schedule. They look at it and you go, okay, I’ll offer you a 500 record right now to get through this month. Everybody would take it. So, what they’ve done early in the season is they’ve built themselves a four-point buffer to get to that point because again, it’s an insanely difficult schedule. They don’t get the, you know, just to pick on some teams, the Chicago, the San Jose’s, the Phillies this month where you would expect to get some not easy points. There’s no such thing as an easy game in the NHL, but some expected points. Mhm. So, you want to build that buffer as best as you can, as early as you can. And to do it against all Atlantic Division teams is huge. That’s part of the reason they’re tied for first right now is because they’re holding down other teams in the division from getting there. So, it’s huge. It’s great. And again, I don’t expect them to go three and one through every four game segment for the next couple months. But, man, if you’re going to do it, hell of a time to do it. One game at a time is all you can ask for. I think the one thing we’ll talk about here in terms of specific Red Wings storylines is that Cam Talbot has been all three of those wins. Gibson got pulled in the home opener. Talbot came in. Red Wings still of course lost that game, but then Talbot has been essentially as perfect as you could hope for after that. the win against Toronto at home, the win against Toronto in Toronto, which was one of the best performances probably of his career, and then the win against Florida. And Mlullen has said like, “Yeah, he’s going back to Talbot.” It was like the Florida game. He I’m going back to Talbot saying it’s because of the performance. That isn’t sustainable over an 82 game season. They’re going to need to get Gibson going here at some point. The question is when do you pick Friday against the Tampa Bay Lightning or do you pick Sunday against Conor McDavid and the Edmonton Oilers? And I mean I don’t pretend to to know what Mlullen thinks specifically. I kind of lean towards the Lightning to see if he can’t catch something there. The Oilers is a bit of a those are some high-end finishers or a couple of the best players on the planet. That’s a tough ask for a goalie. Still the it’s early. You don’t make any sweeping proclamations. We’ve seen how great Cam Talbot can be through like the first twothirds of a season before. And for John Gibson, you’re not writing things off, but you do hope that they can get him going soon so they can continue this role. Yeah, cuz he was awful the last preseason game he played and then he wasn’t good in that first game. I I think I agree with you. give him the next game just because you want to give Talbot some rest because he can’t at his age he can’t be going every other day for you know four, five, six games at a time. So give him a bit of a breather here. Let’s see what Gibson’s got against Tampa Bay. And Tampa won’t have as good of a book on Gibson as they would on Talbet because of you know conferences and how often they’ve played. And then same thing goes with although Talba did play for the Oilers I think for a hot minute there. So maybe he’s got a Rita McDavid or vice versa. So, it could be fun. Maybe a little extra motivation. I don’t know that many people have a read on Conor McDavid. Do not blink. Well, they they got a read on him. They just can’t do anything about it. That’s That’s the That’s the trick. I read it and I’m horrified. But yeah, and again, I still got faith in Gibson to have a good season and get it going. But at the same time, the NHL’s too good to try to make something work. You got to ride the hot hand. If something’s working for you, don’t overthink it. Now, in terms of what’s working and what’s not, Alex Dre’s been playing good hockey. I I I don’t doubt that for a second, despite the zero in the goals column, and something that I said, I think when we were sitting at I I still call it the Air Canada Center, the ACC. I’m still calling it that. And the Sky Dome. Yeah, I’m not It’s annoying. We were sitting in Toronto. I said to Evan, I was like, De Brink is starting to think about it a little bit with his shots. He’s starting to You don’t want him to get into that spot where he feels like he has to force a goal because the best version of Alex Debrink as a scorer is the guy who just knows that his shot’s going to go in. And I’m not saying, you know, sound the alarm bells, nothing like that. He’s playing great hockey. The numbers say it’s going to break for him eventually. A little bit’s been finishing, a little bit bad luck or whatever it might be. Get that man an empty net goal. Just break open, break the seal, you know, get him going. I don’t know what his expected goals are, but I can guarantee it’s a hell of a lot higher than zero. It’s got to be among the best on the team. He has had so many chances and yeah, now he’s starting to last night. I noticed a couple times he had a good look to shoot and he chose to pass, which is not normally something you see from Alex Debrink. So, I he’s definitely fighting it in his head a little bit. Still playing good hockey, still for the most part making the right plays. And uh that’s all fine. You know, the regression to the mean is going to happen at some point, which means he might score 12 goals in a three-game span, but might just have to patiently wait for that stretch. Uh, according to Money Puck, Dylan Larkin leads in cumulative expected goals 2.7. Alex Debrinks second with 1.8 mate and he has I mean that’s not a lot mind you but second on the team I say but and two basically two expected goals through four games is a 41 goal pace which feels about how he’s been playing just nothing’s dropped he’s just has to have the finishing and again he’s playing good hockey it’d be different if he was playing poorly and part of a line that was struggling but he is still playing good hockey him and Kane like they are just showing off the magic every single game. Kane had a a a fantastic feed to him last night as well. The PK I think Max also put in his article. I didn’t get a chance to finish it, but the PK went two for two last night and had some other opportunities where they had to kill, you know, outman situations. It’s early, but it’s quietly pretty solid so far. click it out about 90%. I think they this early in the season, I don’t want to put too much stock into numbers with this. It looks different. Like they’re running a diamond formation from what I can tell. They’re not pressing as much as they did last year. I think they’ve gone to a more conservative style PK. And again, so early with so few opportunities to really dive deep on it, it’s hard to tell in great detail every change that they’ve made. But the penalty kill feels like the whole strategy this year is we’re going to let them have the puck, but they’re only going to have it on the outside. We’re not giving up anything in the slot. We are not giving up the cross iceet. And that does give the other team some looks from, you know, the top of the circles, the top of the key. But without a deflection, those are ones your goalie should stop, right? And I think the Red Wings are just like, okay, let’s just eliminate the high danger and then whatever happens happens. They are suppressing high danger chances against really well. Like you’d think Florida for the moments where they controlled that game, they would have just racked them up. No. like Detroit still by the numbers had the majority or at least more of those high danger opportunities if I remember correctly and they’ve done a good job like you said of eliminating the the the big numbers so to speak if to borrow a term from golf. Not that I ever employ that strategy myself. Yeah, I haven’t actually looked at the underlyings of that but it does feel like especially on the PK that the high quality chances they’ve reduced not like dramatically but noticeably. Yeah. And if that’s all they do on the PK, you can handle the odd point shot that gets tipped in or the odd shot from the top of the circle that goes in because of a screen. As long as they’re not just hammering one-times from the slot or getting back door taps at the, you know, crease, it’s a it’s an 82 game season. You got to play the odds and you know you’re going to have way more success if you can protect the home plate than if you get caught over pursuing along the outside. Last point here on the Red Wings, Lucas Raymond’s injury. I mean, they won last night and that’s great, but obviously you’re not it’s not a winning strategy to not have Lucas Raymond in the lineup as well as Mason Appleton has done. What is the impact here of having him out? And I mean hopefully by the time some of you are listening to this, he’s already played in the Friday game against Tampa Bay, but being dayto-day, it is key to get him back in and healthy. I think they made the right call by playing it cautiously, but if he’s missing any extended period of time, then that’s that’s no bueno. Again, it’s the damned if you do, damned if you don’t. This early in the season, I am playing the cautious card. Unless he feels 100% you don’t even risk it. Especially if it is his shoulder. Cuz again, speaking from experience, shoulders are not anything to screw around with. So if he says, “Yep, 100%. Nothing feels weird.” All right, throw him in next game. If he’s like, “No, something’s still a little off.” Just don’t even take the chance. You know, they’ve got some depth at forward now. Finally, they can throw in a Soda Blom or a Bearagrin to round out the lineup. And yeah, having as good as he’s been doing, having Appleton on the top lines, not ideal, but if Raymond has to mix an extra two, three, four games to ensure that he’s going to play 75 plus games this year, so be it. You you kind of just take your medicine now for the betterment of the season. All right, let’s jump into some NHL news. The Lane Hudson saga is over and everyone is we’ve we’ve said for years if if you all thought that Toronto fandom and media was crazed or Vancouver was crazy like no just wait until Montreal’s good again or or those fans have something to care about again. It’s it’s a different level. Nothing touches what the the the Kbeekqua can do. Before we talk about this contract, can I just the [ __ ] that has been going around this narrative is driving me up the wall. So there there were reports coming out before it was signed that this is getting emotional. This is getting sensitive. He’s not happy. He’s upset and is it throwing off his game? And all these reports were coming out that it was like, okay, everybody just needs to sit back and breathe. And then the narrative after it comes out is, oh, he took a hometown discount. Oh. Oh. Oh man. Oh my god. If if he was willing to take a hometown discount the whole time, why would it have ever been emotional or sensitive? Like I see you were learning about French media. Oh my god. I I thought the same thing. I was like, that is absolutely like, hey, you sign this and here’s what we’re going to do. It’s a smart move by management. Like that’s all put out there intentionally, right? And a good point was made to me where like this could have been a situation where he he went against his his dad who’s doing a lot of the representation and said, “Okay, you know what? Drop this. We’re just going to go with what was offered before and he made the decision end it.” Sure, maybe. But yeah, don’t give me that, oh, what a martyr. What a hero. He took a discount. And because I do think it is a discounted contract, but I think more than anything, you’re right, Brad, I think the the Canadians management just won the negotiation. Yeah, they stuck to their guns and they won. Like it was a war of attrition that Jeff Gorton and Kent Hughes won. And I do believe the reports that Hudson was probably a little upset cuz to be fair and I don’t blame Hudson for being upset. He should have got more than Luke Hughes and Jackson Lome and he didn’t which isn’t a great look. Yeah, it’s weird. Fords do usually get paid more. Yeah, exactly. So, I just the narrative when I saw it starting to slowly creep out online in the following days was just driving me up the wall. You can’t have it both ways. Either everybody was lying about how testy it got or everybody’s lying about the hometown discount. Like, it’s just stupid. 8 years, 8.85 million. There were conversations about, you know, shorter term. There are conversations about going to 10 million or or more with how much the cap is going up. The cap is already rumored to be increasing next year beyond the already scheduled increase from like 104 to 107 or something like that. So Wayne Hudson absolutely could have cashed out. Did he take a team friendly deal? Yeah, I think so. I’m personally of the mind that I think he’s an exceptional player and a lot of the the criticisms I have are absolutely colored by the biased lens of I wish he was on the Red Wings and he’s not and thus I am petty. He can’t defend and so that there is a limitation to how much you’re going to pay a guy for that reason. But he is a dynamic player and should should be more than just a Shane Gossip Bear despite all the jokes that I make. like it’s it’s a team friendly deal, but it’s not crazy far off. I think the real surprising part was the fact that he took the eight-year the max term because that stops him from cashing out in a big way sooner. Eat your heart out le fans with, you know, Matthews Martner Knander kind of thing. But still, now that aside, it is an interesting comp for Simon Edson. And Pashantire made the a good point to point out in a post that that could be a teamfriendly contract comparison for the Red Wings if they work on an extension with Simon Edmonson. Hughes came in at 9.42% of the cap in New Jersey. Lome at 8.65 and Hudson at 8.51. So you can start to draw that like high eights, low nines range as a potential, you know, mark for where Simon Edmonson would come in on a a max term contract. And again, I know the thoughts about internal cap and things like that, but just it feels like with every ticking second, the salary cap’s going to keep going up and up and up. So you got to you do have to kind of look at the percentage of cap numbers. You’re going to pass the the Larkin number eventually. That bodess well I think for for the Red Wings a little bit of having a not too crazy benchmark to go against. There’s enough data points out there for both parties at this point. It will be interesting to see what the contract ends up being. I would imagine it seems like most Swedes always just take great deals long term. They like where they’re at. They’re like why would I do something else? This is what I want. So, it’ll be interesting to see how this all comes out once the dust settles because yeah, the cap’s going up. You see some guys taking discounts, you see some guys getting big contracts right away. It’s it’s really hard to gauge where this one’s going to settle. Well, I think to the point Ryan made about being surprised Hudson took the eight years, if I’m Montreal, I wouldn’t have given him the option. Like, we’re talking an 8-year deal and we’ll figure out the AE. And if I’m Steve Eisman talking to Simon Evson, I’m doing the exact same thing. It’s like Simon goes, “Here’s my number on a bridge. Here’s my number on a long term.” And Eisman just takes the bridge and throws it aside and says, “All right, let’s start talking here.” There’s going to be a coffee ring on that first contract within 10 seconds. Exactly. So I I think well one again now we have three very solid comparables for Edmonson. Not that they are similar styles of player, but in terms of age, contract length, AAV, you know, relative team. Exactly. So, if you want to talk about, you know, I know people thought we were nuts when we were saying he might get more than most cider. Well, here you go. Are any one of those three defenseman better than most Cider? Absolutely not. And they’re all making more than most Cider. So, realistically, Simon’s probably going to make more than most Cider. And that’s just the way of the rising cap because even for a guy like Hudson to get back to that. I know you made the Gostaspare joke and and not that Gossar is a bad player, he’s a good player. In four years, what’s a Shane Gossar worth in the NHL? Probably pretty close to $8 million. So you’re Oh my god. You’re, you know, Yeah. at a on a 115 120 million salary cap. Yeah. guy who puts up 40, 50, 60 points, but is a defensive liability is probably an $8 million player. So, I think the worst case scenario for Montreal here on this contract is still not bad. And I think Detroit’s in the same boat because what’s Edmonson’s worst case scenario? A 25point really solid defensive defenseman. What’s that worth? Look at what Gaver just got. And that’s worst case. He is not a defensive defenseman only. Exactly. I I think Gabricov might be like the not floor cuz I think Gabricov’s elite elite defensively, but that style of defenseman is Evson’s floor, but I do think there’s legitimate offense and puck ability there. So, I I think if you wait 3 years on Simon Evson, he’s a $12 million defenseman. So, yeah, I’m I’m talking eight years and I’m not entertaining another option. They they learned the lessons. Kent Hughes, Jeff Gordon, they learned the lessons from what Kyle Dubis and Toronto messed up from the start with their core, which is now broken up with Mner gone. And yeah, I think you’re right. They’re like, “Yeah, we’re not we’re not doing that at all. We are not making that same mistake.” I don’t think it gets it done, but at this point, you’re just offering Edmonson the cider contract with an extra year on it and saying, “There, I’d give it to him today if it was an option.” Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if that already has been an offer. There’s got to be It’s There’s a part to this that’s unspoken. which is that you’re going to have to start to talk to guys who’s they their timing was just worse and there’s nothing else to be said for it other than their timing was worse and say, “Hey, look, you’re going to see this guy who looks up to you on the team who we ask to log fewer minutes than you in less heavy situations than you and we got to pay him more and you know, you’re a leader on this team and we’re we’re sorry about that and that’s just, you know, the business.” That’s always been the case in the NHL, but it kind of went away for an entire era there because of the flat cap, because of CO and everything. And you know, these conversations are happening in 32 teams across the league. So, that kind of thing is is expected. And agents are agents are are playing it two ways, right? They’re telling the GMs that they’re negotiating against, absolutely not. We will not abide by this, blah blah blah blah blah. We’re not holding ourselves to an internal cap. And then they’re telling the players, hey, look, this is an awkward dynamic. like it’s it’s going to be weird with the team, whatever, whatever. But that that’s part of it where the teams kind of have to manage this internally cuz guys do care. Like I I know these players are the a lot of them are consumate professionals and they they never, you know, betray anything like that to the media, but they they are competitive people and that would myth at least some of them. Well, if you’re Mo Cider and say Simon Evson’s making a half a mill more than you, you just make him pay for dinner on every road trip. That’s right. There’s ways to balance this out. Unironically, that’s probably a lot of what they would do. All right, other quick NHL news here. Not directly relevant to the Red Wings, but maybe Brady Kachchuck out at least four weeks that then that could be tough. Ottawa, who’s not off to a hot start, it’s early, but if they are missing one of their most important players for a long period of time, that’s another opportunity for Detroit to potentially take advantage of of points on the board against them, if that makes sense. And what’s Ottawa one and three right now? Something like that. I just wanted to point that out. Now, elsewhere, Florida, who obviously we’re familiar with, not just Kachchuck, not just Barkov, they claim Donovan Sabbringo, in part, they need bodies. Kulakov is now out, as we mentioned earlier, for long periods of time. And again, it’s a deep team. I don’t think Florida’s in danger of, you know, plummeting to the floor or anything, but that’s another team where the injuries may be too much to to have them amount to like the top of the NHL again for for another season. and we’ll see how they hang in there. But I mean, they still started 3 and 0 this year. Yeah, they’re still extremely good team. We we watched that game last night. There were still moments in that game where Marshand or Verhagy or Reinhardt were flying around the offensive zone and we’re like, “Oh, right. We’re still in danger. We are still in a lot of danger.” So, you know, sucks for Florida, sucks for Kachchuck, sucks for Barov and Kulakov. But call me crazy and I know I don’t know anything. I think they’re going to be all right. It’s insane to me that they lose their probably their two best players and they lose one of their best defenseman and they still have a first line, like an NHL level first line. Yeah. Makes you a little sick. Like, what do you mean that’s not a house of cards? Not even close. Yeah. When you have Brad Marshian on your third line in the playoffs, you’re doing all right. Must be nice. There’s been more expansion talk has picked back up. We’ll we’ll save that for a different episode. For now, we’re going to take another quick break and when we’re back, the final segment on this episode of the Way to Be Podcast back after this. [Applause] [Music] This message is brought to you by Green Light Lending. Are you facing financial red lights on your home ownership journey? Don’t have money for a down payment or closing costs? Struggling with your current mortgage payment or other debt obligations? Or maybe you have a complicated situation like credit challenges or self-employment income? At Greenlight Lending, they turn those red lights green with creative mortgage solutions for purchase and refinance loans. Their team crafts personalized plans with flexible closing cost options, competitive broker rates, and innovative loan programs tailored to your needs. Whether it’s finding the right loan or guiding you through the process, they’re here to help you score your home ownership goals. Let’s get you out of the penalty box and into the game. 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We give away two tickets to every Detroit Red Wings home game going directly to our Patreon supporters. More giveaways other than that as well, but that’s the the big one we always run in season. So again, patreon.com/wingedwheel podcast. Questions from our patrons. The Dandyman can say, “I’ve seen articles about the Oilers trading for Sebastian Kosa, but I don’t get it. They need a goalie, sure, but what would they be giving us? We need a top four defenseman and a first-line winger. No playoff team is giving up those players with the rising cap and seemingly so few teams tanking. What does a successful Kosa trade even look like? It’s hard to imagine something that makes sense for both sides.” I think you’re like the two situations where I consider moving one of like Kosa or Augustine or someone or a higherend prospect is filling that direct position of need on the roster right now or grabbing a you know promising young talent who’s maybe disgruntled with a contract negotiation like how we were ambitious about a McTavish trade for example like Kosa could have been a piece in there whether or not it made sense for Anaheim th those are the situations so Does it make sense for Edmonton? I’m not necessarily sure. Well, Edmonton needs someone who’s going to win them the cup this year. Yeah. And man, as much as we love Kosa, he’s not ready to be a number one goalie on a Stanley Cup contender this season. And I don’t even know what Edmonton would have to offer that would interest Detroit cuz you’re probably looking at a top pair lefty to play with Cider or a topline leftwing. Who does Edmonton have that fits that bill that they don’t directly need to keep? Right. So, unironically, the answer might be Jake Walman. If you’re actually making that trade that that would be the podcast right there. That’s just fold. What do you That Yeah, that like it would never happen in a million years. But like you look at the Oilers roster. Not that they’re not even willing to give up Jake Wallman, but Ekcom is probably too old. We just hit record and say nothing for 90 minutes and just go at the end go. Yeah, it’s been a good run. Glenn Brabbom says, “Let’s say we trade Rasmusen, Confer, Bergrren, Hall, Gustoson. How many first round picks are we giving up?” Yeah, as one package. Can we find a decent lefty for this? And where from? throw in a conditional fourth and retain on confer if you have to. The only no the I know I I mean I know it’s a joke but like you can envision small amounts of value individually for like a rasmission depending on how he’s playing at the time and if teams are looking for big bodies or you know Bear might get you a later round pick but comfort with his contract you have to retain and you wouldn’t get anything back if you can even trade him. Hall and Gustin aren’t worth anything. Like there’s reports of of Detroit wanting to move on from Hall or Gustoson or whoever. Like yeah, but teams probably won’t do it. And the same goes for the the anchor contract in and confer. Evans RBF says, “Should we be worried about Gibson’s first game? Obviously, it’s the first game and can’t tear into him when Hamick was a big part of the problem. Also was hoping to see you guys on TV for the game Monday. Evan must have paid a fortune for you all to go. What a guy.” Yeah, thanks Evan. I paid zero $0 is my favorite amount. Free.99. The Yeah, I mean you don’t want to say oh it’s gonna absolutely be totally fine with Gibson, but it’s still too early to to panic kind of thing. Trebuche or Tbucket Inspector says, “What kind of lefty would Danielson plus a top three protected first in a sweetener of another second or third round pick or prospect in that range get the Red Wings?” That get you a pretty damn good defenseman. There’s not very many defenseman out there that that wouldn’t be a competitive package for. Yeah. Danielson’s a top 10 pick. That other pick might be if I’m a team trading with Detroit, you know, hoping that’s a top 15 pick at a position like a premium position. Yeah. And then a second round pick. Like that’s you’re one good piece away from almost the eel trade. Like that would get you a very very good very good defenseman. Red Wings three games and all of a sudden were looking to land the big fish. Oh, they’ve been looking to land the big fish for a while. And they should and still be continuing to look to land that big fish because remember that loaded free agent class next year? Yeah, they’re all gone. They’ve all signed. Nobody’s left unless you’re really hot to trot on Alex Tuck. So, I like Alex Tuck. The thing is, who’s available? That is always the question. I think the Red Wings are at a point where if any premium topline winger or left shot D comes available, they have to be the highest bidder. Sydney Crosby shoots left. Who’s available though? Like genuinely wait like if wait until Buffalo implodes which is rich after an eight-goal performance. But yeah, Bow and Byum they’re not going to trade Delen even if he wants out. They’re going to fight tooth and nail to keep him. Byum, but he’s only got a two-year contract right now. So, and then that’s straight to UFA. So, like that that proposal, trade proposal is probably too much for Bow and Byum. So, it’s like that’s two Buffalo years. So, that’s at least five to six years of of your life gone. Cheesy Spoon772 says, “I was going to leave something in the last overtime segment about Steve Dangle calling the Red Wings the Red Sabers because of how they’ve been the past decade. If only known you guys would be sitting next to him the next day.” Yeah, I gave it to him a little bit and it’s like a Red Wings fans are going to have a field day in your comments and you know, I watched his LFR after he posted it and I I you guys in the comments were it was funny as hell as expected. There was a lot of Oh, red sabers, huh? That’s tough. He was unaware of the Swedish mafia that exists amongst the Red Wings fandom. Oh yeah, they’ll get you. Will Bkima says Appleton has three more goals than Eers has points this season? Soak that in. From the three wins, what feels most sustainable aside from Talbet. What’s least sustainable in your eyes? Oh man. Most sustainable half a goal per game, Mason Raymond Appleton. Obviously, I would say most sustainable. Nothing’s really felt like an outlier. They’re not like riding a heater on any one thing outside of Talbot a little bit. I I think this Decor the way they are right now, the way they’ve been playing is extremely sustainable. Yeah, they’re not. It’s not like they’re scoring eight goals a game. And cuz even that they’ve been winning. Sure, they got four goals against Florida and six against the Leafs in game two. That was with two empty netters each game. So, it’s not like they’re winning by scoring four plus goals every game. They’re not not allowing goals against, but again, their defense does look systematically better. So, it’s like I don’t expect them to give up one or two goals against every game. But least sustainable, Alex Debrink not scoring. That’s what I was going to say. Like in a couple ways. One, he has to break through eventually. And two, if he continues to not score, then it would be a problem. Just move all the Mason Appleton goals to Alex the Brinket and we’re about where we should be. Yes. Yeah. I don’t know. I feel like special teams have been Yeah. 90% on the PK. That’s probably the answer. Nothing has seemed crazy. Yeah. All right. We are going to wrap this episode up. Thank you all so very much for tuning in to this episode of the Wind Wheel Podcast. Thank you to all of our sponsors and our Patreon supporters. patreon.com/wingrealpodcast if you want to support the show. And if you want to help us out, but Patreon is not for you, that’s totally okay. You can also help us out just by subscribing wherever you get your podcast, Apple Podcast, Spotify, whatever RSS player you have, YouTube. Leave a thumbs up, a review, a rating, the stars, the review, tell a friend about the show. All that really does help us out a lot. Remember, Windheart at the LCA Saturday, November 15th. wingwheelpodcast.com/redadwings. And to all of our name level supporters, we could not do this show without you. Arjent Shanker, Afford, Martin Norberg, brand new name level supporter. Welcome Martin to the Dubdub Club and thank you so much for your support. THL champ Samuel Sodhome icon Glenn Brabbom Rain Doa ball hockey goalie Matthew M. Rice Darb EQ Sea Lion Bango Bango Hassam Alasam Asher Killian Kalin Wood Alex Toger that’s what I appreciates about you. Derek Nstam, Matt Mccay, Jacob Turner, Andy Hardcore, Sam Benson, Citizen High Five, RA, Aaron Hudson, Admiral Matt S, the Cheeseburg Navy, The Elcato, Steven Ortle, Jonathan Miller, Give Blood, Fight, Probert, DJ Denton, Carl Brutin, Ninolooki, Jay Gollum, John Engel, CB55, Connor Scovi, Adam Zoea, Adam Rose, Huh? Wa who Steve R, Hockeytown, Matt, Mr. Jacuzzi, Chaotic Monkey, Craig Kibble, Eizer Plan, Stan, Now I have to learn how to click on a Macintosh, clipclop, nigh neigh, podi 713, Griffin, not from Grin Rapids, Marty Cosav’s punch to foot’s head, Jeff Pridemore, Eric Hill, Butts, Carlton, Best James Bond, Beer League Legend, Alec, Mark Hernandez, Slim Smitty, Cards, Grand Rapids, Girly, Anna Leman, William Kip, Tira Jr., Mike Asher, Chris Black, August, Brian Mun, General Andy Bohan of the Cheeseburg Army, Quas Lonnie Zone, Dylan Larkin, Trade Sacrifice, Rhymes with Ripple, Matt Keeler, Linda Hall, This Patron is called It’s called What It’s called. Thank you, Connor Leighton. as good as it gets. Jeremiah do Josh Yelton, Brad Simmons, Darren Fick, Beex, the Hodag, baseball, basketball, Wiener Dog, Short Short, Sports, Commander, Ben Baron, and the Cheeseback Space Force, Sandine, Pelicus, Pet Pelican, Griffy Boy, JM Rapsy, Frank Stanley, Rosie Posie, Oilia, That Other Guy, Pucking, Puck, Puck, Carl Tens, The Hat, 123, Steven, Aon, Cory, Pria, All Motor, No Hands, Jean Sullivan, Roy Mudbut, James Pridemore, Euprenadian, Drop the Puck, Eric Nance, An Senoslovski, Jim Bellingham, Massie Balls, Wings, Fantas St. Louis, Scott, Johnny Paige, Lucas Raymond, Evans, Brown, Pomeranian, Trent Thorough, Grepsky, Evan Beckner, Return of Jambo, CE Hayes, Finny to the Raptors, Jacob Marsh, Faulniss 91 in the Raptors, and I’m still stranded in Arkansas, Fight Night at the Joe, Andrew Shaw, Axel’s Sandy Pelican, and your second favorite patron. Thank you all so very much. We will talk to you Sunday. Thanks for tuning in to the Winged Wheel podcast. Be sure to visit wingwheelpodcast.com where you’ll find links to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. You’ll also find ways to support the show like Patreon, official podcast merchandise, and more. And don’t forget to follow us on X at Wingwheel Pod, at Ryan Hannah WWP, at Brad Krisco, and at Hockeytown Evan, as well as Wing Wheel Podcast on Instagram.

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The Detroit Red Wings are streaking early – in a good way, this time!

Tune in as we open be recounting our stories of bringing friend of the show Steve Dangle of SDPN to the Red Wings vs. Leafs game in Toronto and recording a live LFR as the Wings brought a fresh dose of disappointment to the crowd.

We then start with a recap of the win in Toronto, including Cam Talbot standing on his head, Mason Appleton’s heroic goal, Lucas Raymond going out injured, Dylan Larkin opening scoring, Axel Sandin Pellikka’s up and down play, and more.

Next, the win in Hockeytown as Todd McLellan’s squad beat Brad Marchand and the Florida Panthers: more Mason “Lucas Raymond” Appleton heroics, Patrick Kane and Dylan Larkin continuing their hot starts, Alex DeBrincat only putting up assists, another Cam Talbot victory, & plenty more.

After that, we dive more into how Steve Yzerman’s team’s hot start in the Atlantic Division can serve their future postseason hopes, Cam Talbot vs. John Gibson’s starts to the season, the Detroit Red Wings special teams’ solid starts, Alex DeBrincat’s goal drought while playing with Kasper and Kane, Brandsegg-Nygard & Finnie’s performances, impact of Lucas Raymond’s injury & more.

Finally, NHL news including Lane Hutson’s new contract & how it compares to Moritz Seider’s and potentially Simon Edvinsson’s future deal, Brady Tkachuk being out, & lots more before we take your questions and comments in our Overtime segment – enjoy!

Intro & Taunting Dangle: 00:00

TOR Game Recap: 6:00

FLA Game Recap: 23:55

Talbot vs. Gibson, Raymond Injury, & Red Wings Notes: 36:40

Hutson Contract & NHL News: 49:25

Overtime: 1:02:05

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