POSTGAME: Devin Booker’s 2nd Half NOT ENOUGH, Phoenix Suns Drop To Memphis Grizzlies
John just did this to my heart. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] psychos and sickos unite for another sad edition of the PHX Suns postgame show presented by Bet365. Download the Bet365 app. Use code PHNX365. Deposit 10 and place a bet for five and get $200 in bonus bets. Of course, I’m Eric. We’ve got Espo joining us remotely today. Steven will be calling in from the from the morg. I was going to say the stadium, but it felt like a morg tonight as our hopes and dreams are dead. I’m just kidding. It’s not that serious. But the Suns did lose again 114 to 113 to the Memphis Grizzlies on a John gamewinning layup. They fought, but it was not enough. Thank you all so much for being here. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button. Shout out the freckled mamba behind the Mac making all of the magic happen. Espo, I I feel so conflicted all at one time about this one. They started off hot. They they played better off rip than they did before. They had a lead at halftime. They fought back in the second half. And here we are sitting at 1 and4. Look, there are things that you can see and and understand that they have made some progress and that’s good. But Devin Booker wasn’t good enough through three quarters. I mean, he had 13 points uh heading into that fourth quarter with poor shooting. Sure, he came up big in the fourth and and was uh you know, fairly heroic except for obviously uh that final shot and really that final 30 seconds. But if he’s your number one guy, he needs to be helping you in in those other quarters. I know that that other guys carried them uh through through in particular two quarters and into that third, but when that lead slipped away in the third, I would have liked to see him step into that mode a little bit sooner than he did in the fourth. And this team has flaws. We know that. But that’s we’ve talked about that ad nauseium since the summer. But there were some positives, just not enough because at this point you’re sitting at one and four, could easily be uh three and two, but also could be 0 and five just as easily. Uh there’s there’s some stuff to be concerned about at this point. Yeah, I mean, look, still no Jaylen Green tonight, no Dylan Brooks tonight for the second game in a row. Obviously, you like to imagine in a one-point game that having those two guys who are starters for you and top end players on your team would help, but it does feel like lazy analysis to just say plug and play, it would be different. So, when we break down Book’s game, 10 of 26 from the field, four of 11 from deep, 32 points, four rebounds, three assists, a steal, and a block, and just three turnovers tonight, but the assists were not good enough to warrant those three turnovers. it. You knew he was the best player on the court when the fourth quarter hit and and that’s when Devin Booker started getting going. He hit that buzzer beater at the end of the third quarter. Got a little hot there and then just completely turned it up. And I do appreciate the fact that he was still shooting in that first half even though it wasn’t going in for him. He was still looking for his shot like you know I’ve been sitting here and saying he needs to continue to do. Does he need to shoot better of 10 to 26 from the field? Absolutely. I think in the first half what I liked from him though was it felt like the defense didn’t fall off for him. uh good rotations, uh forced a jump ball, like he he was just kind of everywhere on the defensive end. And then even at the end of the game once he turned it up offensively, obviously that last possession when John Mar scored, the defense wasn’t great, but it was a few possessions earlier that Devin Booker was switched out on Jarant, which is a matchup that clearly favors Jarant and Book’s able to hold it down and play good defense. But at the end of the day, if that’s what we’re talking about at the end of a Devin Booker game is you had one hot quarter and you played some good defense, he’s he’s a supermax player. He’s a superstar player. And if this team had a better Devin Booker for three quarters of the game, they would have won this game. And that’s plain and simple. He was good, but he wasn’t good enough. Well, and on the defensive end, I know he tried to claim he got pulled in when it came to that four-point play, but he fouled the guy on a three-point shot. Uh, it was a four-point swing there, and that played big at the end of the game. I mean, even that one free throw is the difference there. 114 1113 loss for the team. So, certainly some flaws there. Now, he’s not the only reason uh that they lost. the the turnovers were inexcusable. Uh some some guys just didn’t have it tonight that was out that were out there on the court. In particular, Oso Wiggodaro looked lost at times. And so there were multiple reasons that they lost tonight, but Devin Booker not finding his rhythm early on was a big one. And and them not getting to the free throw line uh because of it with with him not being aggressive also hurt him as well. Yeah, you know, somebody we got so many different opinions in the chat and I love our chat. I I appreciate that we actually have basketball discourse in here. It’s like half the people are saying, you know, Devin Booker is just not being good enough and then other people are saying, “Oh, well, he can’t do everything.” And it’s true, like he can’t do everything. We can sit here and talk about how he needs to be better. Deon Booker at the end of the day still had 32 points tonight. In all but like one game this season, he scored 30. that that is that is no matter how you get it very impressive to do, he’s still the best player on the team, but he can be better. Now, that being said, you can point to the four-point play. The last two possessions where he took an ill-advised three the first one, and then the second possession, your back was against the wall with no timeouts. You’re just going to have to kind of take a bad shot. You’re never going to get a good one out of that. So, it’s the first one you’re a little bit more upset about. But the thing that upsets me the most about tonight and the thing that I’m kind of walking away with were the turnovers and the mistakes that you mentioned. And in those mistakes was also terrible fouls. This team continues to commit awful fouls. Fouls that should be about 10 times harder that lead to and ones or fouls after a make. I know that’s been a theme with the Suns over the last couple of years is you get a big bucket, you go on the other end, commit a foul. This team is still getting in its own way and in some ways that makes sense and it could be encouraging to say if they fix it they’ll be better but it’s got to be nipped in the bud. How many times Espo did you sit there because this is the first game that we didn’t watch together and put your hands on your head after a bad pass. Royce O’Neal had bad passes that led to turnovers. Mark Williams had bad passes that led to turnovers. Nick Richards had bad passes that led to turnovers. Deon Booker had bad passes that led to turnovers. Those are just off the top of my head. I’m sure there are even more that I can’t remember right now. That That’s a mistake that has to be cleaned up. And that’s a margin this team with their talent deficit, injured players or not, they can’t they can’t lose. Yeah. I mean, Grayson Allen had a a handful of them tonight that just left you scratching your head. And we’ve talked about it. This team is not talented enough to make mistakes that are self-inflicted wounds. And they had a lot of that tonight. Now, fouls didn’t lead to free throws for the Grizzlies as much as you think. Somehow the Suns actually won the free throw battle, which is mind-boggling to me since they didn’t have one until the middle of the third. But yeah, these are these are in some ways dumb mistakes that have hurt them along the way. And when you have three games that essentially come down to the final play or the final 30 seconds of a game, those little mistakes are going to be what costs you. And and that’s been the case. And uh in three of these losses or excuse me, in two of these losses that they’ve had, uh it it cost them. They they have to clean that up. That’s that’s hands down what they have to do. Now, I will say you still haven’t seen Jaylen Green. You didn’t have Dylan Brooks. So, you still are at a deficit when it comes to your starting lineup and you hope as guys move back into a more natural position for them that that it makes sense. Grayson Allen likely will be less of a ball handler when he’s playing on the second unit uh with with Colin Gillespie. Hopefully that cleans up some of it. Royce slides back into a second unit. Uh maybe that changes some things. Granted, if he keeps playing like this, it might not be him that that slides back into that second unit, but yeah, you cannot make these mistakes. And then you’ve got the learning curve of of coach Aught as well as he tries to figure out these rotations and who should be in it. Uh so these little things turn into bigger problems and and that’s where we sit. That’s the theme of the first week and a half is is little things turning into big problems. Is that okay? Look, losing isn’t encouraging. Let’s get that out of the way. Losing sucks. I hate that we are one and four and it does sting that it feels like we are one and four at our own fault. That being said, does the fact that we’re looking at a team like you mentioned that is missing their second best player has missed Dylan Brooks for two of it. Mark Williams was out a game and he started his first game tonight and it still feels like Jordan is figuring out the rotations here. Oso Igodaro is getting less minutes. Isaiah Livers is still in there. It feels like there are still a couple buttons that can be pressed and maybe a couple that shouldn’t be pressed anymore and we can get to that a little bit later. Is that relatively encouraging to you for this team where it’s it’s early in the season and they feel close and that a lot of it is controllable? Yeah, 100% I feel uh okay about where they are. I know people are going to think that’s an insane statement, but like I said, three and two isn’t that crazy where they could be right now. They should at least be two and three given what they’ve uh what they’ve been able to accomplish at this point. And there’s a learning curve. We’ve pounded the table about that, myself in particular, that this is going to take a little while for them to fully round out into what they are. And okay, last year they started 8 and one. Remember how that ended? No, remind me. The first Yeah, not well. I mean, I think that’s a fair state. Sorry, I completely blocked it out of my memory. So, so yeah, things can happen in in the first nine games where you’re figuring things out. Uh, and you know, there was once a Suns team that I believe went 0 and 13 in their first uh 13 that that Cotton Ffit Simmons wound up having to retire. Danny H took over and they fought their way into the playoffs. So, I’m not going to I’m not going to write them off at one and four when the little things can get corrected when Jaylen Green could come in and have a massive make a massive difference and your best defender Dylan Brooks has been out for a handful of games already. They’re not going to beat the best in the West on a regular basis, but games like the last few certainly they can they can turn around and win those moves. And I also think there have been positive trends throughout this season that things have been getting better. I know you mentioned on yesterday’s show the fact that they have very open shots. Jordan not talked about that in pregame saying that he liked the offensive process. It does feel like defensively especially today they came out with a more concerted effort especially off the bat. Uh, I know people are kind of up and down on on Ryan Dunn, but I thought he did a relatively good job on Jarant tonight, which is a tough matchup. And yeah, the fouls, especially early foul troubles, are iffy, but uh he only had three of them, but he played 28 minutes tonight. You know, I I see that this team is is building towards something. Now, does that building continue to be a linear process where we see them get better? And if it does, does it lead to wins? I think that’s kind of the big question here is one of the problems that I think a lot of people have had about this season so far is like it doesn’t feel like we are able to take moral victories, right? And and part of that is why not though? No, not though. And I agree with you, right? But I think part of that is PTSE from the last couple of seasons and part of that is I also think that like this team made us feel good in preeason. This team made us feel good opening night when they stormed back and they beat the Kings. Since then, not only has it been a couple blowout losses that have not been fun, but these close losses as well, it’s just it feels a little heartbreaking. And as a fan, it’s hard to take yourself out of that game to game. For me, it’s hard to take yourself out of that game to game. But when you look at the big picture and you start to slowly see things coming together, Mark Williams started his first game tonight. He played great. We’ll talk about him later. Colin Gillespie looking like everything that you need Colin Gillespie to be off of the bench, right? Royce O’Neal, I don’t know how much stock I’m going to put in in a hot twoame stretch from Royce O’Neal, but if he can be a little more consistent this year, good piece off the bench bench, good trade piece. Grayson Allen coming off of the bench when Jaylen Green is back, that’s a good piece. You know, you have these things that are lining up and then when you get fully healthy or at least hopefully get fully healthy, you can see these things really starting to fall into place. Like again, Mark Williams started tonight instead of coming off of the bench and it felt like some of these big problems that we saw Espo were fixed, especially when it came to the start of the game. I mean, yeah. I I struggle though. Were was that Utah game not entertaining? Were we not thrilled at moments of that? Were there not moments tonight and and you know, full quarters tonight where it felt where it felt good? Like, I understand that people don’t want moral victories. they want actual victories, but in a year that is a very obvious transitional year uh for this franchise, you may want to get used to some moral victories because it might be the only thing that sustains you for a little while here. I mean, and and and then you do have you have, you know, Green and Brooks coming back into this and maybe that slowly changes. I’m I’m not going to sit here uh and and freak out about a moral victory because there are things that you watch tonight that you go, “Okay, I understand this. I understand where this is going.” And then on top of it, you look at it a and and you go, “All right, there are two more guys that are going to be back that that will get this thing rolling, which will make the bench make more sense.” I I just you’re not watching a team that’s competing for a title. I’m sorry to break it to you. If you’re if you’re still operating in the mindset we had the last two years, you’re missing the point. I’m not saying you, Eric. I’m saying the greater you, you know, because there’s I mean, there there are things that they that they’ve figured out that have slowly gotten better that they’ve looked at and they’ve adjusted that Jordan is is messing with. like you want to talk to me 20 games in. If they have one win, we’ll say, “Yeah, this is a disaster.” Right now, you’re five games in, you know, no matter what, even with bad teams, it’s hard to sell losses, right? It’s not good for morale. It’s not fun, right? You can have fun moments, but when you win, if if if the Phoenix Suns scored two more points tonight, two more points tonight, the entire vibe of what you and I are doing right now is completely different. Now, that doesn’t mean that because they didn’t, we could sit here and say everything is is god awful and trash and there’s nothing good to talk about. But realistically, Espo, if we were sitting here and we were talking about a Phoenix Suns win tonight, we would both feel very different about the entirety of what we saw. That is just the the psychology of sports. Seeing a loss, watching a loss, investing in a team that loses is not a good time. Even if there are good and bright moments, it doesn’t really matter as much as if you pick a couple more wins. Nobody’s saying this team’s going to be a world beater in the West. But I didn’t expect them to start one and four, and I certainly didn’t expect them to start one and five, which makes Friday’s game against Utah to me. To me, as a fan, it is important. You really didn’t think that one and four was a real possibility with this? I thought it was a possibility, but I wouldn’t have predicted it. I mean, it it always seemed pretty possible to me in terms of the reality of things. Losing sucks. I’m not going to say that that not closing these last two games out didn’t suck as a fan watching, but I also I also look at it and and there’s there’s positive to take away from it as well. I think there’s a lot of things that are positive. I think there’s I think there’s a portion of the fan base that certainly sees those and understands uh that that this is this is a team that is building to something and and that that is that’s what this is about and there are a lot of positive things to take away from the last two games and and that’s that’s where you got to got to focus is yeah the losing sucks in the moment it sucks you know I I won’t lie I cursed at the TV before I came up to the home studio because it’s frustrating to watch watch them lose especially on a last second shot. But that does not discredit uh you know the additional things that we saw them do that are positive. Yeah. Look and for the record I I agree with you. There are a lot of positives and there will be many positives we get into today. Of course there will also be negatives that we get into. I just and somebody’s saying in the chat that like we’re making up the fact that some people aren’t happy or losing their minds. It’s like I’m not right. Like I see the tweets, I see the people in the comments, you know, like I talk to people. I talk to fans. Like there are people who are legitimately dissatisfied and upset about how this season has started. Again, I don’t like one and four. I’m never going to like one and four. I live and die and breathe this team. Like when they lose, I am sad and when they win, I am happy. And that is really it. But when I’m removed from it and when we can look at it from a big scale, there are absolutely positives. And I still think this team is better than what the record shows. And I think there’s a lot of room to improve internally with who we’ve seen on the court. And then of course there’s the additions of the guys that we haven’t seen on the court either for some games or all of the games. I want to talk about one really big positive, the biggest positive takeaway we could have for tonight. And we’re going to do it on PHX Suns postgame after our first break. Yeah, I know you see it. We actually did this setup because I wanted you to look at this hat that I have from Rally House because Rally House is a beautiful, beautiful place for Arizona sports fans. Anything that you want. Suns, ASU, Cardinals, Diamondbacks. They still have Coyotes gear at Rally House if you’re trying to represent the deactivated franchise. It’s your go-to shop if you’re a local sports fan. I don’t like to toot my own horn, but I feel like if somebody’s going to talk about repping their team and wearing sports merchandise, I might be the number one guy in the state to do it because I literally talked to my wife the other day and she said, “How many shirts do you own that are not local sports related? It’s not double digits and I’ll tell you that. That’s why I love Rally House in-person locations at Tempe, Mesa, and Glendale.” Or go to their online store and shop their hundreds of pages of fantastic selection. Find your local Rally House location. shop their entire product assortment online at www.allyhouse.com today. You’re muted. You got to unmute. Bang. Hey, look at that. Everybody prefers me muted. Anyways, got to tell you about our friends at Branded Bills. Uh the best hats in the valley because they’re made here in the valley. They are a a Mesa Mesa company that moved to Tempee and they make some of the best gear that you’re going to find in terms of hats, custom hats, custom apparel. We have our own PHNX hats that we make through them. Uh, and I’ve tried on some of their quarterzip, some of the other clothes. You’re going to love it once you get it on. And their hats are second to none. Best material and build for a hat that I’ve ever had on in my life. I love them. You’ll love them, too. And I said to him, you know what? I want to get a discount for my friends that watch the program here on PHNX Suns. And they said, how much do you want, Espo? I said, you know, I need I you know, I need 15%. And they said, we were thinking 10, but you make a good bargain. Uh, so let’s give you 15. And they said, okay, have them use that promo code BBPHNX, and they’re going to save 15% off their first order. So head to brand billills.com and use the code BBPHNX for 15% off your first order. You know, I suppose they say a lot of stuff about you, but a man of the peoples might be the truest. You know, you’re you’re giving people that extra 5% off on branded bills. That’s not the only thing I give the people. I give them heartache and frustration as well, just like the Phoenix Suns. Well, then we are in the perfect place. PHNX Suns, of course, presented by Bed 365. Thank you all so much for spending your Wednesday night with us, especially after a loss. We know it’s a lot tougher after a loss, but all of you in here are true psychos and sickos. Love when we’re talking hoop. We don’t all have to agree about hoop. We all don’t have to feel the same way about a one and4 start for the Phoenix Suns and a one-point loss to the Memphis Grizzlies, their first loss at home. And that’s okay. That’s what makes fandom so beautiful. That’s what makes PHX Sports in this chat so beautiful is we can disagree, but we can always talk hoop. And that’s exactly what we’re going to do. We’ve talked about the negatives for a long time. We’ll bring them back up again later, but right now I’m all about those good vibes. You know who brings the good vibes? It’s always the dudes. It’s time for our dude of the night presented by Hila River Resorts and Casinos. You do you at Hila River Resorts and Casinos. Visit playadhila.com for more details. Mark Williams. Once again, our dude of the night in his first ever start in the purple and orange. 20 points, 11 rebounds, four steals, a block, nine of 11 from the field. He was a monster in 28 minutes tonight. Espo, he is looking like every bit of the center the Suns have wanted him to be. Still on a limited workload, but extraordinarily effective. Yeah. And active around the basket. That’s what everybody wanted on both ends of the floor. I think what surprised me the most so far is how good his hands are on the defensive end. He’s got four steals in tonight’s game, which played a big part in them being able to stay close as the Grizzlies started to try to pull away at multiple points. And he’s been a monster on the board. But talk about efficient. Nine of 11, two of two from the free throw line. He’s given a little bit of everything that you thought he could. Now, we all know he’s 23. He’s a great young center with a lot of promise. It’s all about can you keep him on the court, which is why the minutes restriction is there. But if he can stay on the floor, he’s a big reason why I still have a lot of positivity when it comes to what this team might be able to accomplish moving forward. Man, he has been a monster. The eye test alone, screw the stats, put put the stats away, just watch Mark Williams play basketball. extremely physical down in the paint on both sides. Some of these rebounds that he’s grabbing and some of the misses that he’s been forcing are rebounds and misses we have not seen a center for the Phoenix Suns force maybe since DA was playing at his best with his physical peak and stature. I think the difference between what I’m seeing out of Mark is it it feels like he’s always bringing it. He’s always running down the court. He’s always fighting for the rebound, giving the second effort. His second jump is phenomenal, right? his finishing around the rim, nine of 11 from the field. And to be honest with you, he got fouled a lot. And he only took two free throws tonight. I think he probably should have taken like five to six free throws tonight. That type of physicality, if he can maintain that, and even if it’s just 28 minutes tonight, like maybe the plan is we don’t let this guy play 35, 36, 37 minutes, even if we might need him to in some games, but we can actually play him more games. He can be one of the most positively impactful players on this roster. I think there is a lot of room to grow when it comes to Devin Booker as a primary playmaker and finding his big man and finding his center. He’s never had a player that gives that type of consistent effort at the center position in his entire career here in Phoenix. So, I think he’ll continue to get better. I believe in addition to Jaylen Green playing alongside Mark Williams is going to be mutually beneficial. And defensively, we’ve yet to see Mark Williams and Dylan Brooks in a starting lineup together, which the way that Mark’s been protecting the rim. You had Dylan Brooks in there at the four. It really feels like a perfect compliment all around. We haven’t seen him dive into that playmaking as much as he was doing in Charlotte, but maybe a simplified role is what’s best for a guy like Mark because he has just been spectacular in it. Yeah. a motor and you’ve talked about that and you know we talk about the nine of 11. I’m pretty sure at least one of those misses if not both he then followed it up with getting the offensive board and putting it back in. I mean, he is he’s active and and I know that sounds like such a small thing, but when you’re big is that hustles that much around the rim and does those things, get gets those tough boards, that’s a big deal for a team like we talked about that doesn’t have a lot of room around the margins. I’m excited for Mark Williams. I hope the plan uh continues to improve and continues to show that he can be out there at that 26 to 30 minute threshold because that will help this team immensely. I mean, look, the the plan and Jordan talked about that in pregame is more about how Mark Williams responds to certain things instead of what they’re controlling in and out of games. Now, obviously, he’s going to be on a minutes restriction. I think realistically if Mark Williams plays like he played tonight, you’d like him to play around 34, 35 minutes in the game. If he can sustain that for an extra seven minutes, he played 30 against Utah. I think it’s a great sign that after his season high in minutes and only one day off and it was a travel day back to Phoenix, they trusted him enough to get the start and trusted him enough to play nearly 30 minutes again. I mean, I think he played more minutes in regulation today than he did against Utah because in Utah, you added in overtime there. If he continues to settle in and be better in a better situation, it’s just it’s a gravity thing. Everybody talks about gravity with with three-point shooting and Grayson Allen and Devin Booker drawing double teams, triple teams. Just as important as all of that is, can you forget about the guy under the paint? And when Oso Igodaro is in, and I like Oso, you don’t have to think about him offensively. He’s an afterthought. The best thing that Oso Igodaro is going to do is dunk something that’s wide open, which any center can do, or make a good read and a pass. And if the number one thing you’re worried about from a center is making a good read and a pass, you don’t have to worry about him. Nick Richards is capable of being physical and dominant, but as far as in his head, he’s not consistent. You don’t have to really think about Nick Richards that much when he’s on the court. We don’t know about Kaman. Every single second that Mark Williams is on the court, the opposing team has to take into account where he is. That is a dangerous basketball player. I don’t think he could be a top 10 center in the NBA. I think that’s a really high bar. Maybe on nights he can be, but if he stays healthy and starts, I think he’s easily a top 15 center in the league. and and maybe I I haven’t done all the math on that, but the Suns could have killed for that over the last five years. If he stays on the court, he’ll be a top 10 center with the kind of activity that he has. Now, you know, that’s that’s the big if. If if he stays on the court and and hopefully that’s what they’re building up to here, but that activity will make a big difference for this team along the way. but they need somebody to step up in that second level as a center because we know he’s not going to play in backto backs. We know that there’s going to be uh that that comes up. So, that’s what they need. But right now, if you’re going to continue to start Mark Williams, you’re going to get that kind of effort uh from from him. And it looks like he works pretty well with that starting lineup. I think he’s a big reason that they didn’t have the issue of a slow start like we had seen in most of the games already this season. Yeah, I I really like that. And and I said the last five years, I think that’s a little disrespectful to DA in the the 2020 2021 season, but post DA era. And as far as consistency and consistently giving that effort, that is something that’s always been a knock on DA. But for those runs and at that peak, DA still been the best center that this this franchise has probably ever had besides Alvin Adams or if you want to call Amari a small ball center. Uh so I just want to I want to put that out there because after I said that, I was like, yeah. uh your your point about the start and that’s why over the last two days on our postgame show on Monday and our live show yesterday it I was so dead set on you’ve got to start this guy because of the deficiencies that you’ve had at the beginning of the game. It’s not just the fact that he had six points in his first seven minutes, a rebound and a block and an assist. It was more about the fact that Memphis couldn’t just go out there and and walk into something easily. Right now, Memphis still scored. Memphis still took the lead at a certain point early on in the first quarter, but it felt like the Suns started playing the game on their terms, and that played out efficiently and effectively throughout the rest of that first half. They ended the first half with a lead because they didn’t play from behind, and because the team they were playing against didn’t just feel like they could walk into and get whatever they wanted. continue to start him if he can. We’ll see how he responds to his first start. You have another game on Friday and this one means so much because it’s an NBA Cup game against a team that Mark Williams had a good game against in the Utah Jazz. So, it’ll be interesting to see how he responds to 28 minutes in a start if they start him again. But, Espo, if they don’t start him again, I think one thing is clear from what we saw tonight is it can’t be OSO starting and I know we talked about that. I do you have anything else to add about Oso or I’ve got a couple other players that I’ I’d like to talk to you about as far as should they still be getting minutes or not? Yeah, I mean Oso I I I want to buy in into the kid. You’ve seen some things that he does, but offensive limitations are going to be problematic. I also don’t think he’s big enough uh to play that center position right now in terms of of strength. I think we’re getting to a point where he might fall out of the rotation. At least he might deserve to fall out of that rotation. He’s already in that backup role really playing backup four rather than backup five. He was out there with Nick Richards again like we saw in the Utah game in the second half. So I I’m I’m losing patience when it comes uh comes to OSO. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he can potentially find his way. Uh but I don’t think right now he quite knows how to help this team and I don’t think he’s exactly what they need from the big man position. No. Be says it best in chat. He’s a change of pace big go up against a small ball lineup or you need somebody who can go out there and switch in in different matchups. Sure. As an everyday option on the court, it’s not looking like it. And look, man, I like Oso Agodaro. I I thought Oso was going to play a bigger role in this team and be a little bit more effective this year, but you do have to take a step back and just be like, look, this is a second round pick that had a lot of work to do offensively. He’s a unique prospect for sure. He has good parts about his game for sure, but it’s just clear that maybe with this group of guys, him on the court is not that effective. There is another guy that I wish we did not have to have this conversation about, but I think we have to have this conversation about. And we’re going to talk about Nigel Hayes Davis. We’re going to get into the numbers. We’ll hear from Stephen and we’ll do all of that on the other side of our final break. 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Get your Suns card today. Apply at any Arizona branch. Visit macu.com/sons to learn more. Insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions and exclusions apply. Like everything in life, loans on approved credit. Appreciate everybody joining us here. Hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, become a member today. Uh like bees and like hidden sun village who continues to ask if I know ball. The answer to that is no. Uh appreciate all of you being here. Uh also, if you’re listening on audio, five star review. Was the answer N O or K N O W? No, it’s it’s N O. I do not know, Bob. Uh clearly. Uh, but I do appreciate Hidden Sun villages comment and just being active in the comment section. Uh, I’m that dude always commenting in all caps. Always says, “I think we should roll with Fleming on Friday.” And I think that kind of takes us into a conversation. Espo about some of the guys that have been coming off the bench for the Phoenix Suns. That’s not including these rookies or Jordan Goodwin for that matter. Nigel Ace Davis tonight, 14 minutes, two from the field. Uh, but no rebounds, two assists, a steal, three fouls, a negative N on the plus minus, which again, I know we don’t love plus minus, but I think in a game today that matches his plus minus. Isaiah Livers, two-way player, off the bench, eight minutes, zeros across the board in 8 minutes, only one field goal attempted, zero points, negative 12. I don’t love what I’ve seen from Nigel so far this season. Obviously, Isaiah Livers is coming off of a good game against Utah, but didn’t like what I saw from him tonight. At what point do you just try just try Rashier Fleming and see what it looks like? Because if you’re going to get poor performances from your backup forwards when Dylan Brooks isn’t in, wouldn’t you rather that poor performance come from a guy that you’re investing in in your future and can actually, you know, learn from it at the point in his career that he’s in? Well, I don’t think you’re going to see Isaiah Livers again. I think Jordan Kn went to him. It worked in Utah and you reward a guy for that uh after that. Tonight wasn’t great. How can we read anything into the bench because they’re not actually playing uh the spots that they usually will. I think Nigel Hayes Davis has been uh not great. I’ll say it politely in in the first uh games tonight. Looked a little bit better offensively. found his his stroke a little bit, but I struggle with with this demand for Rashir Fleming. I heard people in the chat I saw read uh he deserves to play. We don’t know what this guy’s doing in practice. We don’t know if he’s picked up the offense. We don’t know anything about that right now. So, I think there’s a giant assumption. I get it. People want to see him because he’s the 31st pick they traded up uh to to get him. I know that people want to see Kaman Malawatch. I also know that when you’re dealing with younger players that sometimes it takes a little while for them to get up to speed uh and and for you to feel like you can turn to them. I I understand people, yeah, but you’re going to lose anyways. I I’ve also seen rookies get their confidence completely destroyed by getting thrown in there and thrown into the fire before uh they’re particularly ready for it as well. If you wind up getting into again December and things look like it’s not great, sure, then give them major minutes if you feel like they’re ready to to bear some of that responsibility. But I haven’t seen the bench that it’s supposed to be. We have not seen those rotations. Uh and and if if the coaching staff does not feel that Rashier is prepared to be in there and play those minutes, don’t rush him because this isn’t about this year. This isn’t about the first six games, five games, whatever the case may be. It’s about their long-term future and the impact that they can have. And if they don’t feel that it’s advantageous to put them out there right now, I’m at least going to trust it here at the beginning of the season. I hear you. Again, saying that they’ve earned it is one thing. I also just think that the guys that have been playing, and I understand we haven’t seen the bench. I feel like I’ve said that every single game that everybody’s playing in in a position they shouldn’t be. But you want to know how else you can ruin a young guy’s confidence? Got two guys playing in front of you. One’s a two-way player. Other guys been playing overseas. Neither of them are making a positive impact on the court consistently. Literally, one of them is a two-way player. and they’re not you’re not sniffing the court. Like here’s the thing. Rashir Fleming played really well in preseason and I think he showed that he can do things on an NBA court that could be beneficial. Now if you throw him out there for a couple of minutes and he doesn’t look good, do you continue to throw him out there and make him try to swim in sharkinfested waters? No. But I do think that you can at least try him because you’re not getting an amazing performance from Nigel Hayes Davis. I don’t want to see a two-way guy get minutes over Yeah. Rashir was a second round pick. Let’s be honest, the way I evaluated him, the way a lot of people evaluated him, that guy was a should have been a top 20 pick. And the thing with Kaman Mal, but he wasn’t. The thing with Kaman Malawatch is Kaman Malawatch is a top 10 pick. And you look around the league, right? I know we screamed and argued about VJ Edgecom, but beyond VJ Edgecom, this rookie class in general across the board has been fantastic. You saw one tonight in Cedric Coward who was a later pick. Then come on, Malawatch. Now, are the the set the circumstances exactly the same? No, they are not. But that being said, I do not know if you have se seen good enough play from any of the other backup forwards on this team to not at least give it a shot. And if that doesn’t work, then say back to the drawing board because the worst case scenario is you give them a shot. Now you have tape to teach off off of. You say, “Okay, we know what we need to work on.” And now you’re not sitting here watching other guys suck it up and you’re like, “Oh, well, I could be better.” Best case is you got what you think you have in Rasher Fleming at a minimum, which is a guy whose measurables are insane and defensive instinct popped in in preseason. Like I’d like to at least give him five minutes and just see. Like that’s it. Just try it. I I get that and and I agree. At some point you’re going to have to put him out there and try it as this season progresses, especially if it heads in the direction that we think. I just I’m going to believe in the coaching staff that’s seeing things in practice, that’s making calls based on how guys are performing there, what they’re picking up, how they’re playing, how they’re hustling, uh, and all that. I I am not in that practice, nor are you. We do not know what’s going on there. If they do not feel like they’re ready to be out there, I respect that for the time being. Now, if they’re one and 20, at some point you go, “Okay, yeah, now it’s time for them to go out there and get some burn uh and figure it out.” But we’re Come on, Malawatches 18. Comparing to any of these other uh picks that are going out there and playing uh and and performing, bigs usually take longer unless you’re a complete freak athlete or you’ve been in college three or four years. This is a kid that started playing basketball at 14. He’s 18 now. He’s extremely raw and everybody knew that when he was drafted. So, I’m not going to freak out about him not getting minutes yet. And you know what? Rasheed Fleming will get out there when the coaching staff thinks he’s ready. And if they don’t feel it yet, I’m going to respect that. Now, I don’t think that you’re going to see Isaiah Livers much longer. When Dylan Brooks comes back, Royce O’Neal goes to the bench. most of those minutes go away anyways in terms of who was going to play those minutes. Uh, and that’s that’s how it shifts. I I’m If Rashir gets minutes and they feel he’s ready, great. They obviously have not felt that that’s the case yet. Sure. I I look, I trust Jordan. I And I don’t ever want to give off the impression that I don’t. I think Jordan Kn is the coach of the future for the Suns. I I’ve continued to grow better and better and better about my feelings with him ever since the moment he got hired when I wasn’t that high on the hire. Uh I I like some of the the adjustments he’s made, the rotations that he’s made. I just think there are a couple things that even though I’m not in those practices and and I am not as obviously knowledgeable as his coaching staff that to me from an analysis perspective, it just feels like you might have something there. you might analysis though on on him playing some I saw I’ve seen some season playing against third and fourth stringers like I’ve seen him play basketball man it’s the same thing as as analyzing rookies and like again you you know it’s this is a guy that the Suns traded up to get and also it goes with if Nigel Hayes Davis was hooping right now if Nigel Hayes Davis was was playing at the peak of what we thought he could be this isn’t a conversation right it’s not a conversation if Isaiah Livers comes in and has the same performance he had against Utah then okay then then you you live with that. But it’s not like you’re giving a you’re getting a positive from there right now. You’re actually getting a pretty detrimental net negative when when those guys are on the court and specifically with Nigel. Like if if it gets to a point where you you want to preach youth and athleticism and this new era, this new identity, and you are probably I think the only team in the NBA that hasn’t played any of their rookie classroom this season. I I I love you, man. You were also the one pounding the table three weeks ago that Nigel Hayes Davis deserved uh minutes and could be proven me wrong and I’ve changed my opinion. Has he has he proven it? He’s played they’ve played five games. He’s readjusting to being back in the NBA. I’m not they this guy deserves at least the opportunity uh to to to get out there and play. Like again, this is not a team that that has huge lofty goals. this guy has played uh hardly, you know, played five games. Again, this is this is overreaction city when it comes to it. If again, if you get to 10 games, he’s still playing like this and you feel like Rashir Fleming is that guy, good. Give him those minutes then. If if the coaching staff feels that again, those numbers of of minutes off the bench are going to shift dramatically when uh when Green comes back, when Brooks is back, all of a sudden those bench minute shrink for everybody else. So, you’re not going to see a livers. You’re going to see probably less minutes for Nigel as well. I think they’re doing that in part out of respect for him and to see if he has it because he did come here and take a chance with them like they took a chance as well and five games we could write off a lot of guys after five games that go out and perform. I mean hell after three games everybody thought Royce couldn’t shoot anymore. The last two he shut everybody up on that front too. Like I’m five games. That’s all I’m going to continue to say. So, so I and and we can we can move on from this. We’ll get to to Stephen here in a second. I just I have a response to you. Is one, I’m not saying that Nigel A. Davis should play zero minutes and he’s the worst basketball player I’ve ever seen and get him off the team. That’s not what I’m saying. Does he need time to adjust and to maybe get better? Sure. There’s been a lot that I thought he would be able to at least go in and impact in this game that he hasn’t been able to do. Um, he played 14 minutes tonight. Make it seven. see what he could do. Yeah. And and you talk about confidence when Brooks is back that will happen naturally because Royce will be getting th a lot of those minutes off the bench and you’ll see Nigel probably getting those livers minutes and if Nigel continues to not perform eventually that will go to Rashier like this is it’s it this is not a final rotation and there’s missing pieces. So, you will naturally see Nigel’s minutes go down because Roy will be back on the bench needing minutes. You’ll see uh Grayson back on the bench needing minutes there. The bench minutes for these guys that are on the fringe will naturally go down once guys are healthy. I hear you. And my other thing is, yeah, it’s five games in, but five games in, if we aren’t able to evaluate this team and what’s been going on, then we wouldn’t be able to make an argument about Oso Gdaro or Mark Willie. Like, it’s basketball. We’ve seen basketball getting played and as time goes on and trends change, I’ll adjust and change my opinion as I have with Nigel and as I will with guys as they either prove it or don’t prove it with what I’m saying and what I’m saying before. I’m just saying give him a shot, man. Just give them five minutes. That’s all I’m not asking for Rashe Fleming in the starting lineup. I’m not I just I want five minutes of him. That’s it. That’s all I want. At at some point you will get those five minutes when the coaching staff and they’re going to be the best five minutes of my life. Espo Don’t make a joke. All right, I think on that note, five minutes seems a little long. That’s all I’m going to say. Hey, buddy. It could be the longest five minutes. Uh, let’s get into I mean, there’s no better way to transition into uh bringing on our our man at the morg uh for a context check-in. Let’s check in with Stephen Garner over here at the Phoenix Suns sight of death tonight. 114 to 113 to the Memphis Grizzlies. Stephen, what were your uh your main takeaways from what was yet another close loss for the Suns? Yeah, first of all, hi everybody. I see y’all were having a very very delightful conversation before I hopped on. I’m glad everybody seen eye to eye on everything. Um I’m sure y’all talked about it, so I go ahead and rip that band-aid off. It’s hard to win when you turn the ball over. It’s even harder to win when they’re live ball turnovers and there’s literally no defense for that. We’ve talked about that on the show plenty last season. It wasn’t necessarily volume. It was more so the timeliness and the kind of succession of it for the team last year. And then this season, at least in this game tonight, it was a little bit of a throwback to last season. It was just a rash of them. It wasn’t just like a one-off and then a recourse. It was like one that leads into another that leads into another that leads into second chance opportunities on the other end for the Grizzlies. And it just kind of snowballed into something that was really hard for them to overcome after they did so much good work on the offensive end to get themselves back into Are they dismantling the arena behind you? Something like that. Chairs, chairs and whatnot. It wasn’t going on when I set up and then as soon as we got on and timing wise, you know how that go. It’s the perfect for us too. Yep. Where do you stand on the bench at minutes? Uh Stephen, you probably heard us get into that a little bit, but uh obviously Isaiah Livers didn’t play uh well like he did against Utah. Nigel Hayes Davis has had his struggles, although he found a shot a little bit tonight. Are we at a point where uh you feel Rashir Fleming needs to be part of of this rotation or do you think that’s something that uh just takes a little bit of time once the coaching staff gets comfortable with it? Yeah, for for me it’s it’s hard to gauge that now only because they literally haven’t been healthy. So, it’s been trying to find somebody that can that can hold serve for you to get back to your starting unit. Now, obviously, it was a lot more impressive what those guys did that stepped in the roles as kind of pinch hitters, if you will, in Utah in comparison to today’s game. Uh, which is why Livers got that opportunity in today’s game because of the goodwill he built up from the last one. But I don’t know. I mean, if if you’re just kind of rolling the dice, it feels like he’s it feels like Jordan is going to air on the vets getting opportunity before some of the younger guys. Naturally, we saw that with the decision for who’s starting in place of Dylan Brooks. Uh with that obviously being Royce O’Neal the last couple of games and obviously with Royce even closing some games for the team earlier in the season, too. So, it’s a push and pull. I understand both sides of it, but I do think that because they’re trying to win games early in the season right now and they just don’t have some of the bodies that they’ve been kind of banking on having. They’re going to kind of air on the the experience side of things with that and hope that that kind of helps guide them a little bit through this injury adversity that they’re working through. But I do think that if those guys are not showing up to the extent that they need them to when their numbers are being called, I don’t think Jordan Kn is going to hesitate to give someone a extra run and opportunity. See what they do with that and let that be the barometer for if they get more in that same game and kind of going forward. Yeah, Stephen, it’s always wonderful having you here and I think it’s the perfect time to get into some of the numbers. What’s in the box? Presented by Desert Financial Credit Union, Arizona’s number one credit union, named by Forbes. Uh the Suns, of course, the only number that matters is that final score. They did lose by one point to the Memphis Grizzlies, but from field goals, 41 of 86 for 47.7% to 44 of 93, 47.3% for the Grizzlies. Uh from deep, they out attempted the Grizzlies and out made it by one. 16 of for of 40 for the Suns and 15 of 38 for the Grizzlies. Free throws, the Suns shot 15 to 17. Memphis 11 to 13. Rebounds 40 to 41 in favor of Memphis. And assist 31 to 25 in favor of Memphis as well. Stephen, a pretty even box score here, but you mentioned turnovers. Was there any other number that uh was the deciding factor for this game tonight? I mean, yeah. Look at the 25 assists to the field goals made, which I think was 40 or 41. That’s not close enough in terms of shots or points scored via assist for the way that this team is set up without Jaylen Green. If you’re telling me that they’re operating without Jaylen, that means that they’re operating with one true self-creator and obviously that means that a team opposing opposition wise is going to be low enough to take away space from that player being Devin Booker. That means that there should be a lot of ball movement off of the attention that he’s receiving, whether it’s direct assists that he’s getting or those secondary hockey assists. They had a few of those, but it wasn’t enough. I feel like and I think the box score kind of aligns with my process and thinking there that if the ball is moving to the extent that they hoped for and it wasn’t as much kind of one-on-one in certain moments or obviously even more so than one-on-one the turnovers that shifts the game because when they were moving it before the rash of turnovers happened in the second half. They were getting good shot quality, especially on the second side, and that’s what they’re looking for in their offense, especially early in the clock. And it felt like that kind of withered because of the lack of sharpness with the ball in the second half. I think they had seven turnovers in the third and six in the fourth or vice versa, one of those two. But either way, 13 turnovers in the second half is just entirely too much. Stephen, we’ll let you go here before they uh before the entire stadium collapses on you. Uh any final thoughts on this loss? Yeah. Um, patience, guys. I know that’s the last thing everyone wants to hear, but I think patience in a overarching manner is what’s needed because, man, they’re just figuring things out. But even with the patience part, I can also earnestly say that this was a game that they should have had. Now, there’s going to be times where it’s just not going to make the most sense because they don’t have the pieces that they need to be the best version of themselves right now. And we just saw Mark Williams start for the first time. Obviously, he had a a sensational game, which we’ll be speaking more to over the next coming days, but this team needs a little bit of patience. Um, and I feel like that part is not being given to them and not as a copout for them, but just for the simple fact that they’re operating without two-fifths of their starting lineup today. And then they just got Mark Williams in the capacity that they need him to be in going forward. So, there’s a lot of learning going on with everything included from the sidelines and decisions being made from Jordan out. So just a little patient and they can kind of more accurately and fairly assess everything that’s going on. Well, we’re always learning when you’re speaking. If you want more takeaways from the game, Stephen always shares them on his socials at Stephen PG3. That’s Stephen with the PH. We appreciate you, man. Appreciate y’all. Talk to you’all soon. See you, brother. Thanks, Stephen. Oh, Espo. I just for his own health and safety, you know. I I wanted to get him out of there before I the scoreboard fell on him or something. I can do this and open and close the door in here a little bit to give us the same effect if you want. Furniture I can throw around. That’d be perfect. Uh any takeaways from the numbers or what Stephen shared with us while he was here? Yeah, I mean certainly the turnovers like Stephen talked about there were too many uh turnovers they caused on on their own. Uh just bad passes not really uh not really being sharp on what they were doing. They seem to create turnovers on the defensive end and then manage to create them on the offensive end almost as effectively right after. So I feel I I feel like that certainly is something that they have to clean up and that was a big reason why they fell behind after having the lead in the first half and why it was difficult at the end there as well. Uh and and then yeah, they they didn’t have as many shots tonight as uh as the Grizz. And that that’s that’s a big problem. It’s it’s going to be tough to outscore your opponent when you’re giving up more shots than uh uh than you’re taking. And that was that was what did them in in the end. Those two factors were were huge. And they need to they need to clean up both uh in terms of their ability to win. Yeah, look, this this game was there for them and I think that’s what makes it a frustrating game in the moment. If we can look a week from now, two weeks from now, a month, two months from now and say, hey, some of these games that they were losing early on in the season because of these margins, they have now ended up winning, then you can stomach a loss like today. But it’s got to come with growth. It has to come with improvements. And still my big takeaway from the season, yes, the Suns are 1 and4, but honestly, they looked better tonight than they did against Sacramento where the their one win of the season. They this was probably the best that they looked all season. And they missed Jaylen Green and Dylan Brooks. It’s not satisfying when you lose basketball games. And this franchise and this fan base has seen a lot of winning recently. I know last season sucked, but before that, this franchise has seen a whole lot of winning in this decade. And so it’s kind of a rude awakening to be where we are right now. So I will also say preach patience. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to ask for things to change when I see something or want to see a guy play and and the patience maybe be given to somebody else. But there is no reason to sit here five games into the season and be like, “All right, that’s it. It’s over. Team sucks. Have a good one. No lottery pick. We’ll see you next year.” Yeah. I mean, if if wins and losses are going to be uh what we what we dictate our excitement on, I think we’re going to be in for a lot of disappointment. Not the first time I’ve told somebody that. Uh but I certainly think we’re in uh for a decent amount of disappointment if that’s what it is to be to be frank, but you’re right. If these are learning experiences, if you clean up these issues, if you wind up uh not making these mistakes and you close out games like this in the future because of some of what you learn early on, then that’s that’s a good thing. So, yeah. Well, another good thing is we have some postgame sound from Mark Williams, Colin Gillespie, and from Jordan. We’re going to get into it in overtime. If you’re watching on TV, the party always continues over at gophnx.com. If you’re watching here in the chat, we appreciate you. Hit the like button, hit that subscribe button, become a member today to get access to exclusive emojis like the SMW, the Suns Must Win emoji, and of course, you can rate five stars on audio. And always keep running. Don’t stop running at all. All right. Uh, let’s go ahead and hear from Espo. I’ll give you dealers’s choice. Jordan, Kong Gillespie, or Mark Williams. Hit me with Mark Williams. All right, let’s get to Mark Williams on where he sees that they need to improve to get back on the right track. Uh, a little bit of both. I think just the more I’m out there, the more my teammates will get used to, you know, where I am on the floor. Um, know where I like to score. Um, and then, you know, them finding their lanes to, you know, either go down and shoot the ball. Um, but you know, I think with every game that’ll just take this one through. Um, and Mark Williams followed up by talking about the chemistry that’s being built offensively and especially with the guards finding him in his spots and pockets in play. I mean, you just got to find a way. Um, I wouldn’t say it’s one thing in particular. I think we started the game better today. Like I said, um, down the stretch, we just, you know, got to execute a little bit better. um cut down the turnovers. You know, the live ball turnovers is tough. Um yeah, turnovers, giving back. So, I think those two were flipped. Uh the second one talking about the turnovers and the first one talking about it it coming with time, but everything’s getting slowly better with Mark Williams, Espo, and the Suns slowly better as well. It’s it’s nice to see that they can still build off of what’s already been a successful start to the season. I mean and that’s that’s the attitude and the perspective that they have to have. They can’t give in to uh you know high highs and low lows. They have to understand that they are working towards something and trying to find that chemistry and and everything that comes along with becoming a team together. They’ve only been together as a group since the beginning of September playing. And so Mark Williams perspective is right and it’s got to learn from it. Do those little things better, but to his point that they did start better tonight and they played better overall like you said, Eric. Yeah. Uh speaking of playing great, Mark played great. We heard from Mark. I think we can hear from his head coach on his play tonight in his first start. Yeah, he can do it backto-back games and um I think after the last game we just talked about his standard as we learn him and he learns us. Uh he obviously is a big presence out there um and how he’s done it back toback games. So I think it’s it’s still on both ends. You know, I think at at times um we’re asking him to move up in pick and roll coverage uh defensively and you could see we we were changing things up for for Morant tonight and he was able to do it. So, um even that’s not on the box score. I think there was multiple things there we can be happy about where Mark is at and now that’s a new standard. So, um keeping him to that standard is is is what we’re all here to do. um he set a new standard. So, great night for him. And I think that new standard, Espo, uh defensively in Charlotte, Mark Williams just played a lot of drop coverage. It was a lot of laying back and and protecting the rim. In this new version of him on the Suns, he’s been a lot more versatile. And that is something that that coach mentioned. you know, if he can be a better player than what he was in Charlotte, not just off of, okay, you’re surrounded by better talent and a better system, but more versatile defensively with his build and his athleticism. Again, another layer of something the Suns can work in and unlock as the season goes on. 100%. I think that’s part of what they’ve been looking at and getting him healthier, getting him in a better physical place because then you can do a lot more if you’re feeling confident in what your body’s capable of pulling off as well. So, I think the new standard is probably starting as well. I think that was some of what Jordan Kn was hinting at there also. But that standard is playing with that hustle. You can’t expect him every night to have a double double. I don’t think that was what Coach was saying. But I think going out there and playing the way he did defensively, being on the boards, being out there with that energy, that’s the standard that he set. That’s what they expect from him. And hopefully that’s what they get from him with with minutes around that 30, you know, 28 30 minute mark now after we saw him in that 20 to 24 to start. So we heard from Mark on Mark. We heard from Jordan on Mark. Why not hear from Colin Gillespie on Mark Will? Yeah, I mean he’s a big body. Uh he could put a ton of pressure on the rim rolling uh screening. He says great screens and is able to get guys good looks coming off of screens. So uh and then he’s done a great job on the glass as well, but you kind of see it sometimes. He makes those little uh plays happen off of miss shots where it’s a tip off the glass and then he’ll keep it to himself. So, um, yeah, he’s been effective for us and, um, he’s going to continue to get better as he plays more games, as we get more, uh, continuity with each other playing. So, um, yeah, he’s been awesome so far. He’s a point guard’s dream in terms of a guy that can roll to the hoop, a guy that can get rebounds and get the the fast break transition going for steals uh to change the tide as well uh and help make things work out a little bit better in terms of getting that fastpace offense going. Uh and he mentioned the picks that Mark Williams sets as well. Uh that’s the kind of guy that most point guards, most guards want to play alongside of because it opens up so many options in particular on the offensive end in that screen and role. Having a guy in a dunker spot like that and knowing, hey, if I take this shot and I might miss, I got a guy down there that’s going to fight like hell to get get that rebound and clean up a mess that I may have made. Yeah, I think that the the chemistry between Colin and Mark have been really really good. And I think we we need to spend a little bit more time on on Colin here and just breaking down his game in 31 minutes tonight. 14 points, six rebounds, five assists, two steals, and a block. Five of 10 from the field, three of seven from deep. He has looked so comfortable these last two games. Espo coming off of the bench, controlling the court, playing within himself on both sides of the ball. If this is the version of Colin that they get off of the bench along with a Grayson Allen in a better role, Royce O’Neal in a better role, him sharing the floor with either Jaylen Green or Devin Booker is going to work really well. He’s what everybody expected from him. There was a reason why some people nationally, we’re not talking about us opium drinkers, there were some people nationally that said he was a candidate for most improved this year, that he could have a breakout in in the way that we saw Ty Jerome have one over the last few years. That this is a kid that’s waited for his opportunity. I think he believed he was going to get it last year with this Suns team before they signed Taius Jones and he didn’t. And I think he bottled that up and made sure that he used it as motivation to get ready for this year and he’s taking advantage of his opportunity uh in a big way and and to your point that second unit when he gets to run with the guys that he’s going to I think they’re going to have a lot of confidence in playing alongside Colin. I also kind of like the prospect of maybe him possibly starting when one of Jaylen Green or Devin Booker is out instead of Grayson Allen. I do like the spark that he brings off the bench, but I he played 31 minutes tonight. That’s starter level minutes from Colin Gillespie. And my thing that gets me excited is that I think he could still get better and a little bit more consistent. He had a couple of turnovers tonight, two of them. But a guy at 6’1 who grabs six rebounds and blocks a shot a game. Like where are you finding that in the league? Yeah, I mean he was a he was a triple double guy on multiple occasions in the GLeague as well. We know he can fill a stat sheet. I I agree that maybe later in the season if if there’s an injury, you turn to him, but right now I think it’s about getting him comfortable with his role and the role that he’s going to primarily play. Uh and and he’s become immensely comfortable with that. Uh, and and I think they also know that Jaylen Green, I’d imagine, is going to play on Friday. They knew it wasn’t going to be a long amount of time he was out. Hopefully, we I think we’ll see him in one of the next two games. Uh, and I think that’s probably why they didn’t turn to, you know, putting Colin in that starting lineup because they they need him to be good coming off the bench as that that first guard or one of the first guards off the bench. Yeah, really enjoyed what we saw from Colin. Uh, didn’t enjoy what we saw from Devin Booker’s first half. Colin Gillespie was asked if Devin Booker was frustrated on his performance in the first half. No. Yeah. I mean, of course, nobody likes missing shots. Um, obviously, he’s going to be frustrated uh with that, but um I don’t nobody was telling him anything else like just continue to shoot the ball. U he’s getting great looks. Um he’s been in the league a long, long time. So, um I didn’t sense anything else that was different with him. uh he continued to play his game, was aggressive in the second half, and it was good for us. I think overall there are really, really, really great media members covering the Suns. I think we’re very lucky here locally to have the the group of reporters that we have. Is was excluded? Yeah. Well, I mean, I’m not there asking the questions. Uh was Devin Booker frustrated on his first half? No, dude. He was chilling. Huh? Like I I guess like what other answer are you going to get there besides yeah he was frustrated but he’s going to keep shooting. I don’t really get that question. They also didn’t get to talk to Devin Booker. So you’re trying to get anything out of it? I’m not going to I’m not going to judge other people’s questions. I’ve sat in in that chair and sometimes you ask stupid [ __ ] because you’re uh you’re just off your game. I mean, hell, I think media day I asked Jaylen Green about uh about was he going to put the Suns logo uh in his braids because I had read something and then found out the report had it wrong. It was actually Dylan Brooks was the guy that had said he was going to do that. People ask sometimes ask dumb questions. It’s not an indication of of the individual except as those kind of things. But and that’s why I left off with we have a great group of people there. But but maybe I mean maybe you say Book wasn’t frustrated because he understands that sometimes you’re going to miss shots. I mean that there’s a multitude of things, but uh I mean he didn’t stop shooting and we know Devin Booker won’t stop shooting because you know how shooters get out of a slump, they continue to shoot and that’s what happened tonight and that’s why the fourth quarter was better. Yeah. Uh, want to big give a big shout out to Shane Deenbach who was at the game for us who got a lot of this postgame sound. One of my things I love that Shane does when he sends the sound is he’ll like send something and in parenthesis say this is a good answer. And so I haven’t heard this yet, but this is coach on challenging that Devin Booker foul on the three. Yeah, we didn’t think there was contact. I think there um we still had a timeout after that. That wasn’t the last one. The last one we had was the dive on the floor. 2.7 inside out of bounds and then we turned it over. Turned it over on the inbounds. They went down, hit a three. We came back and hit a three. Um, that was our last one. But I thought we got to what we needed even without the timeout. You know, we continually talked about in the huddles that we don’t have any timeouts left. We got to the space that we wanted to at the end of the game. Um, you know, sometimes you don’t want to use your timeout inflow. you know, as as they’re going back in transition, you may actually get the ball to the right person. We got the ball to the right person. You got a pretty decent look. I think it’s millimeters off if you check it out. So, that’s the game of basketball. How do you feel about that challenge? I think that in the moment, in real time, I can see why they felt that maybe it wasn’t going to be a foul on Deon Booker. And to be honest, that one point made a huge difference. So challenging that if he if they win, they don’t get that free throw, the Suns get the ball back. I don’t have a problem with that because there was nothing else that stood out the rest of the way that you go, “Oh, if only they had that challenge.” Now, I understand people like, “Well, if only if they had that timeout.” That’s different to me. Uh they they had a chance to potentially take a point off the board for for Memphis, potentially slow what what would have been a moment or was a moment that it kind of helped them gain momentum. I don’t have a problem with challenging that play. Yeah. And everybody in the chat is saying they like how Jordan explains what he’s doing. And look, it’s a long season for the players. It’s a long season for the coaches. Coaches are going to make mistakes. Believe it or not, Greg Papovich made mistakes in his career. Pat Riley made mistakes in his career. Eric Spolra, Steve Kerr, like the greatest coaches of all time, Phil Jackson, they all made mistakes. You know, it’s making less mistakes than right decisions is really what determines it at the end of the day. But the biggest difference in these press conferences between Jordan and Mike Boonhozer is something bad would happen and Mike Boonhozer would go, “Yeah, I don’t know. that you know and then Jordan’s like here is a long list of explanations and then he also just added well that’s also just the game of basketball like some things you just can’t control and some things are worth taking a risk on I I trust his calculations his decision-makings his risk he’s been good on challenges so far this year so again one and four missing a challenge rotation whatever the hell like Jordan has still I believe had a good first five games into his NBA coaching career well sometimes too you got to listen to your start. And Devin was saying that that should have been a play that you challenge and that that he got pulled. So if you don’t if your if your back row guys don’t see enough irrefutable evidence when they’re watching uh the the playback of it to not challenge it, then sometimes you trust the guy that was on the court in the play as well. And so I I’m not I don’t I don’t think that was a a reason uh to to question Jordan’s basketball acumen there. That was that was in in the midst of things the right call. I think Suns lose to the Grizzlies 114 to 113. We’ve talked about almost everybody so far tonight. A couple of names we haven’t dove really far into of course the pair of vets Royce O’Neal and Grayson Allen. Royce O’Neal 18 points. Another six from six from deep game for him, six of 11 from deep, six of 12 from the field. He adds five assists and three rebounds. Grayson Allen in 36 minutes had just 14 points tonight. Two assists from deep, four 10 from the field. How did you feel about their games as Royce O’Neal got another start tonight without Dylan Brooks out there? I’ve been impressed with with Royce’s tenacity. hasn’t met a shot that he doesn’t like and he’s on one of his hot streaks right now. So, he’s efficient. Now, you know, three games from now, he could go back and and start missing again. And then you question some of the shots, but tonight uh as well as the other night in Utah, I I love what you’ve gotten from him. And he stepped up uh when his number was called to move into that starting lineup. And you just hope as Dylan Brooks comes back hopefully over the next two games that uh that Royce can continue that off the bench because that changes the dynamic of a lot of things if he’s shooting like that uh with that second unit. Offensively, I like what I’ve seen from Royce O’Neal. Defensively, I’ll continue to bring up the fact that I I feel like he’s taken a little bit of a step back and that’s that’s more exacerbated when you’re in the starting lineup, but had a at least one really tough foul. I think it was on John Morant that led to an and one where he just kind of got beat and just slaps down really lazily. Sometimes there’s a little bit of miscommunication it looks like on defense and I think he’s just lost a little bit of a step as he’s now on the other side of 30. I still think he’s a valuable basketball player and I don’t think you really ask for much more from him in his two starts. Had a fantastic game against Utah. Another good game tonight. Third on the team in scoring. I I think the only other guy that we haven’t really talked about today, Espo, minus Nick Richards, who didn’t really do much, is Ryan Dunn. 28 minutes tonight. So, a game where he played the same amount as Mark Williams, but Ryan Dunn is not on the plan. Ryan Dunn did not finish the game tonight. Royce O’Neal finished the game tonight. Dunn with nine points, six rebounds, three assists, two steals, and a block, but four of nine from the field and one of four from deep. He hasn’t been obviously out of the rotation, but to start and to not close the game is a decision that I’m keeping my eye on going forward this season. Yeah, I mean, there were some fouls that uh that kind of were frustrating when it came to Ryan Dunn. you like his activity on on the boards, but again, he’s a guy that we’ve talked about is is a net negative in a lot of ways offensively, especially from deep. If uh if those are the open looks that that you’re generating for guys at the spot that he’s playing, you have to consider it, especially, you know, when you go down in the third quarter there and you’re going to have to try to make another comeback. you can’t afford to have a guy out there that they can cheat off of defensively. So, going to Royce uh and and and shifting up that lineup to lean more offensively and going with with Colin as well just made more sense. I don’t know that he’s going to he’s going to play his way out of the starting lineup because I don’t think you have a lot of options unless you’re going to go with Royce. But to your point, I think that hurts you too much defensively. He just needs to clean up things and and choose a spots offensively. Keep being a guy that hustles on the boards and and let it play out the the way it may. I mean, that’s Yeah, that’s all he can do. He hustles. He goes out there. If he cleans up the fouls, I don’t think you’re going to have a lot of complaints about it outside of not hitting his threes, but we knew that was kind of a factor with it. As far as closing the game, I like what Jacob said in the chat said. I would have liked to see Dunn at the end of the game. Imagine him getting Jarant instead of guarding Jarant instead of Grayson. Jaw did just kind of walk right down the floor and get right into one of the easier shots we saw him get all night for the win. And I think Dunn did a good job on him. Also, uh I forget who put it. I think Sandman said, and to be fair, he attacked after the the misses from deep where he is continuing to put pressure on the rim. He did it early. He did hit A3 tonight. Again, I think you need him to be a little bit better offensively, but you don’t need him to be a world beater, especially when Jaylen Green is back. I would like to see him close some more games just because again, like you need to give him those reps. And realistically speaking, Royce O’Neal will not be shooting six of 11 from deep every single night. And if he is, Royce O’Neal, congratulations. You’re the newest member of a contending team at the trade deadline because your value is going to be through the roof. So, there are going to be nights where Royce is missing and Ryan’s going to be out there instead. Yeah, but there’s still a greater chance even if Royce is missing that the next one’s going to go in than than with Ryan. Like I’m not saying Ryan Dunn isn’t a a good player, isn’t a a positive in terms of what he’s going to bring you on defense, but let’s not act like you wouldn’t rather have Royce taking a three of some consequence than than Ryan Dunn. That’s the only thing I’d rather have Royce do. I I mean, if I if you’re going out there and you were switching defense for offense each time down the court, sure, I would have loved to see Ryan Dunn out there, but you know, there’s not a perfect situation in that always. So, I I’m I’m not trying to to make excuses for for Jordan or anybody, but to me, I understand it at least from the Ryan Dunn perspective. He’s still a very raw uh player that there were some questionable fouls tonight that he made. There are a lot of good things that he does, but tonight I totally understand why they went the way they did to close out the game and and I don’t question it. Yeah, I I think tonight specifically when Royce O’Neal is on fire, you you roll with that. Uh but I I think that there will be a lot of games where Dun is out there closing, especially when you have better shot makers and creators on the floor with that starting lineup. Yeah, I think Elcon makes a good point in the chat. Says, “Done will be good when Green uh and I assume he means Brooks are are in the lineup. Erica Gordon is back.” Yeah, I hope not. They traded for Aaron Gordon and we didn’t realize, but but I agree. I I agree with with that that there is it makes more sense in that case that you could have Ryan Gunn out there to be a little bit more of a defensive stopper, but you’re going to have to pick and choose. I don’t think by any means is it a guarantee that that’s always the guy that you’re going to go with. It’s situational. Tonight’s situation didn’t dictate it for me. Yeah, I agree. I I love the the conversations that we continue to have in the chat. Of course, we will be back on Halloween. Yep, that’s right. We’ll be doing a pregame and a postgame show. And then, don’t worry, for those of you who love watchalongs, we’ll be doing a Wemi watch along on Sunday as the Phoenix Suns take on the San Antonio Spurs. But first, Friday night, an NBA Cup game. The Phoenix Suns host the Utah Jazz. So, a chance to get revenge. Hopefully, we see Jaylen Green’s debut in the Purple and Orange. We’ll see if Mark Williams starts again after making his first start of the season and playing nearly 30 minutes. But of course, until then, you can follow the show at phnx_sons. That’s on Twitter. That’s also on Instagram. We will be off tomorrow. So, no show tomorrow. Back on Friday for pre and postgame show. But if any news happens, anything comes out with Jaylen Green. We’ll keep you updated on socials. And you can check me out 11:00 a.m. on Southwest Bias right here. We’ll be talking Cardinals, we’ll be talking Suns, we got you covered there in the morning. 11:00 a.m. every single weekday. Southwest Bias with Espo. talking all Arizona sports, but you know he loves his sons. So, he’s going to talk about those Phoenix Suns as well. Of course, we appreciate the freckled Mamba who also loves his Phoenix Suns and have really enjoyed watching games with him. It’s the most emotion I see out of him. He really gets fired up about this team and I love it. You can follow him at freckledmamba. Of course, you can follow Espo at Espo. You can follow me at Rik Y. We’ll be back for a spooky Halloween edition of the show, but hopefully it’s not so spooky and we see Jaylen Green in that starting lineup. [Music] [Applause] [Music]
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Phoenix Suns fight back again, but can’t capitalize on Devin Booker’s 2nd half to beat Ja Morant and the Memphis Grizzlies. Erik, Espo and Stephen break down the good, the bad and the ugly from a 114-113 loss. Just how good can Mark Williams be? Was Devin Booker’s 2nd half more important than his 1st? Should Jordan Ott stick with Nigel Hayes-Davis over rookie Rasheer Fleming? Can Ryan Dunn close games? Is Collin Gillespie really this good? PHNX Suns breaks it down on another postgame show! Follow us @PHNX_Suns, @ErikRuby, @Espo, @StephenPG3 & @FreckledMamba!
0:00 – Intro
1:40 – Suns Fall to Ja Morant and the Grizzlies At Home
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23 comments
Bring back Gerald.
Bro ain’t nun wrong with brooks and green they just don’t wanna play
Bro…I love the game except the last two shots.
But Durant said, we're gonna have more fun smh
This show has become hot take theater. “Devin Booker isn’t doing enough.” No Suns fan, let alone show, should EVER mention those words. Come on. I miss when it was Lindsey, Saul, Espo and Gerald. Interacting with the chat and having fun and everything. But I digress.
Look, being a Suns fan isn’t for everyone. You can tell who’s new to this lol. Been a fan for almost 40 years and I honestly believe they’ve got some young guys here that’ll turn out to be long term fan favorites here. It’s only been 5 games, very easily could be 3-2 and yeah, Jalen Green and Brooks both playing could’ve been the difference. Patience Suns fans. Some of us have been through this and WAY worse here 😂
This is my first year watching you guys since February and you guys are my favorite 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Also I think we need to wait and see 40 games in I'll give it to judge this team.
I'm sad 😢 when we lose we just need to be positive this team will gel together hopefully mid season they could get some winning streaks
I do believe we should test the water with the 2nd round draft pick
Oso can play center. He’s bigger then some other centers
Coach is playing 2 G leaguers over our 2 promising rookies
I disagree with Espo. Play both rookies over g league livers. Over Davis too! They been awful
By not playing the rookies and let them learn through their mistakes. It’s got to be messing up their confidence! I want 15 minutes of each rookie
OTT hasn’t even gave the rookies a good chance at all!
Suns finally have a true power forward in Fleming and he’s not even using him
6 rebounds and 2 points between oso and Richard’s that got 12 minutes each ?? Zeros across the board for livers in 8 minutes 2 assist 4 points for Hayes in 14 minutes . Give rasheer those 8 minutes that livers had we win, give khaman 24 minutes instead of Richard’s and oso we win, give Kobe 14 minutes that Hayes got , we win. .. Memphis had their (lottery pick11) getting some good run , developing confidence while our (number 10 pick) is developing nothing , what are we doing??
No defense no win ❌
Coach Ott has no idea what he's doing. Maybe the Suns should re-hire Coach Bud.
Ott should have a contest and play the players who make their freethrows. NEED REBOUNDS!
Ryan Dunn defensive talent doesn’t make up for his lack of offense capabilities. I know people look at him and think of Kamara, but he isn’t. He should be moved to get a true power forward.
If we're going to lose anyway, Why not play goodman fleming man man?
I was saying all off season that we wouldn’t win 30 games and I got nothing but back lash. This honestly might be a 15 win team. I don’t understand the point of keeping Booker. Booker isn’t wining games for us…… he’s a second option that we constantly treat like he’s Kobe
85 here sad
Whats the big deal? Booker took a couple bad shots those last 2 possessions and they lost. They were never down by 20, and they were without Brooks and Jalen. Williams is just getting into full minutes and comfortability. Dunn and Oso have shortcomings, but they can be addressed. This team needs to play near-perfect to compete, though.
But the SUNS won the trade!!!! 😂😅😅😂😂😂😂😂