The Dallas Mavericks & Dallas Stars Are SUING Each Other

The Dallas Mavericks & Dallas Stars Are SUING Each Other

They need to be prepared for a lot of Dallas sports fans to side with the Stars, even if the Stars are in the rung. All right, guys. Now we get into the other side of the big news of the last 24 to 48 hours. This one is not as exciting, happy, rosy cheicked as Thomas Harley’s contract extension. There are three pillars of this all interconnected. yesterday in the Dallas Morning News. Great piece by Brad Townsen and Leah Asimacopoulos, our colleague who covers the Stars and Brad who covers the Mavericks. And then there was another corresponding piece which we’ll get to and then a followup overnight and this morning. The Dallas Mavericks ownership in conjunction with the city of Dallas has placed a lawsuit in Texas business court against the Dallas Stars ownership. And that’s part one. We’ll get into that. Part two is the stars. Yesterday, a report from the Dallas Morning News that the Stars are considering a1 billion dollar arena in Plano at the Shops at Willow Bend Mall site. And then part three is in response, the Dallas Stars have filed a counter suit against the Mavericks late last night to quote prevent the Maverick’s attempted hostile takeover. Okay, that’s a lot. We’re going to do this segment with Luds and Sean and then not Luds, you and you and Sean are doing this segment. Uh Bobby Carella from the Mavs DLS Mav Show is going to join us to give us the Mavs perspective as well on this is because this is going to be an ongoing story. And Sean, let’s start with the obvious. This relationship has never been perfect, the stars and the Mavs for cohabitants of the American Airlines Center and business partners as operations. But there always was a general sense of we’re neighbors. We have to get along to and and make this work be for the betterment of both franchises. That seems to have changed with the owners ownership change of the Mavericks when the Sands Corporation run by the Add’s and Dumont family bought out bought the franchise from Mark Cuban. And now it seems to have taken a very different tenor between the Mavs and the Stars here in Dallas. Yeah. Yeah. And I I think I think it’s important to establish um when it comes to the Cuban era of of running the Mavericks and everything like that. And he’s still a and our Mavic Show can obviously talk way more about that and has and we all saw with that that blockbuster trade last year that no one will ever really forget. Um Oh yeah. But there was a uh there was at least an understanding and a they didn’t necessarily like each other, right? It’s not it’s not that they were like singing kumbaya together, but they had they at least had a healthy respect for each other in the building, right? I think both of them wanted to be the number one tenant in the building. So, there was always a little bit of that kind of hidden animosity between ownership groups of of prime dates versus that and everything, but um there was at least a hey, we need to work together on this. And since the since the ownership change, the vibe towards the stars from the Mavericks from their their roommate in the building has been one of we’re here to buy and correct me if I’m wrong and we can Bobby can correct me wrong if I’m on the next statement, but it’s definitely the the group that bought the Mavericks. There’s way more of a this is a BIS. This is not a we bought this to build the best basketball team. Like they want to win it. They want to win, right? They’ll tell you that. That’s what they want to win. And I’m not saying that they don’t want to winning basketball, but they brought the Ma they bought the Mavericks as more of the this is a a a a brand. This is a vessel to some sweet sweet gambling money when it gets legalized in the state of Texas. And we we see all of those opportunities if the stars are going to get in our way for some of this which some based off reporting that Leah and others did and that is really well done. This is definitely that that seems to be the belief. So, it’s it gets it gets us back to this point, Owen, where kind of the craziest part to me is one of the biggest crux parts is the Mavs are suing the Stars under it’s from a chart. I want to say this correctly. I believe it is from a charter agreement or whatever it is, a franchise agreement. Franchise agreement. Yes. Yeah. Where the Stars need to have their headquarters within Dallas city limits. Now, corporate and executive headquarters. Corporate headquarters. corporate headquarters is the rule. Now, Luds, to bring LSDs into the conversation real quick, before the Stars were in Fris, where were their headquarters before Frisco? Do you remember? Do you remember when where they were? Where do you remember where the business offices were when you were around the time you retired? They were in our They were in uh Oh, I retired. Uh were they still at Valley Ranch? Cuz they were in Fris. They moved to Fris in 2003. No, they were still at Valley Ranch. They were upstairs there. What what city is Valley Ranch? Does anyone know? Anyone know for the group? Uh, Los Cleasus. Believe it’s No, actually, no. I think it’s Compel. I Either way, is is that city Dallas? It’s not Dallas. No, no, no. That’s the point. Yeah. No, my my point. You weren’t quizzing me. You were just trying to make a point. Okay. Yeah. I’m trying to make I’m trying to make my point here. I’m not quizzing Luds. My My point is that it’s there’s an the Stars there was an agreement. There’s this agreement that is in legal writing and and is been that’s in the city of Dallas has sided with the Mavericks as they went went into this that oh my god the stars you’re supposed to have your corporate offices in Dallas and you haven’t done this and the simple question not the legal question is this hasn’t been a big deal for the stars have been here since 93 and we haven’t had a big deal about the corporate office not being in the city of Dallas and so now it is now when when when all of a sudden in this arena stuff and everything like that when all this arena stuff and everything comes into play all of a sudden now we’re going to go try to find the one rule like it it’s almost one of those spots of like this is and I talked to once again because I want to preface everything with I have not spoken to the stars or the Mavericks on this every single person with both organizations is being very stingy right now of hey it’s a lawsuit we can’t talk lawyers can’t speak so so I did go like I so I spoke to some other lawyers over the past couple days about um about about this. And one of them who does I spoke to a lawyer who does uh um corporate law and they said one of the things that probably happened was they said if they were to reverse engineer and be clear I want to be clear this is just what another lawyer told me might might have happened. Not actually happened not for sure. I’m just covering my own butt on legal ease here. Okay. Speculation at best. Yeah. But there’s probably a world where when the Adles bought the team, they went and had their lawyers say, “Okay, I need you to go find everything you can for me on the stars. Find everything you have on them so I have that in my file for when I need it.” And when they went through and they found this charter and this agreement and they saw that line, they’re like, “Okay, here’s this line. We can use this when we need it.” And a year ago they used it to seize half of the uh the stars half of the arena operations and now yesterday they used it to file a lawsuit. And it’s a very petty way to it’s a very petty way of going about it. And it’s honestly it feels like it’s a technicality. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Please welcome in from the DLS Mavs podcast the host our content boss Bobby Carella. Bobby, it’s great to have you. You dressed appropriately for our show today. I’m uh I’m already tipping my hand the what whose side I’m on here. I think so. Well, we’re both wearing green and I don’t think that’s by accident. But Sean, right before the break was saying something very interesting that we want to get into. So, let’s talk about we already in our previous segment talked about the lawsuit specifics, the arena renovation issues, the legal, I don’t want to call it loophole, the legal technicality that has led to this lawsuit, then the Stars countersuit, and the discussion of where this could all go, including both teams not playing in Dallas, which would probably be an absolute detriment. And that’s where it leads us to this conversation. The city of Dallas chose to side with the Dallas Mavericks in this lawsuit against the Dallas Stars in this particular instance. And there’s some claims within their their suit which also say that the Stars have not been negotiating in good faith over arena renovations for the future the future lease potentially and that it’s been hard for them to actually be able to make contact and continue bringing them back to the table. that there’s been a been a pretty seismic divide. And I started to think the other day, why why did the the city side with the Mavs and not the Stars? Now, again, this is going on in my head and my as Sean talked about earlier, this is a bit of my own speculation. I’m not privy to the insides of this conversation and everything. I have a hunch and I look I’m a big hockey guy but I have a hunch that because Cuban already wanted to move to a new he wanted to build an arena before he sold the team. The ad family and Dumont have clearly said we’re leaving. So they’re planning on going. They tried to already look at a site in Irving and it didn’t seem like that work that fell through or whatever. But all that being said, I think the city of Dallas is very worried about losing the Mavericks from being a Dallas franchise. Yes. And I think that they’re worried so much that they would possibly be willing to, again, this is just my thought, be willing to give up the Dallas Stars in Dallas, Frisco, McKini, Plano, Arling, wherever in order to make sure they don’t lose the Mavericks. And I think that’s my hunch. Does that hold any water to you at all? I think so. Now, I want to preface all this by saying I’m not a lawyer. I’m just kind of a dummy. Neither am I. Yeah. I’m just I said I said that four times in our last segment. I’m not a lawyer. Allegedly. I agree. Yes. Yes. But, you know, I think there’s a couple different factors in play here. One, I believe the Mavericks want to own their own arena, and that means full control, fully or at least mostly financing it. uh they want it to be basketball specific, maybe host concerts there and stuff, but they want it to be their own arena, only basketball. Um, and I think they would put a lot of their money behind it, whereas I’m not sure that would be in play for the Stars. So, if it comes down to if the city is choosing between a team that wants a lot of financing or maybe a little or none, I think it’s pretty clear who they’re going to side with. Um, the Stars are more transparently exploring leaving the city, whereas the Mavs have been pot committed to staying in Dallas from the very start. So, I think the city wants to side with them there. But where I think, you know, as someone that I love the Mavs, I worked for the Mavs for a decade. I’m still, despite everything that’s gone on, you know, this whole thing, I still, you know, am a Mavs fan. Um, you know, where this kind of rings hollow for me and I think a lot of other Mavs fans is the Mavs painting this lawsuit and framing it in such a way where they’re doing this in order to make improvements to the arena. They want to improve the fan experience for the last four years before building a brand new basketball specific arena. Despite for the last three or four years very transparently saying like you know Rick Weltz who who just took over as CEO last year, he has now been elevated to such a role where he doesn’t even worry about day-to-day stuff in that building anymore. He is solely focused on building a new arena. So the Mavs have very blatantly out in the open said like we’re not going to play here anymore. This place is dusty. It’s old. We want to get out of here. By the way, legalized gambling, please. We really would appreciate that. a whole lot. And so I just don’t think if that is your cause, well, our cause is to make the final few years at American Airlines Center fun for fans. Like I don’t think fans are going to throw their support behind that in the court of public opinion just because the Mavs are the Mavs are the louder parties here about getting out of that building. Sean, what do you think changed in this relationship specifically between the Stars and the Mavericks, the ownership groups? We’re not talking about the players, the fan base. There are a lot of crossover fans that are both Maz fans and Stars fans and fans of all the other DFW teams, whether Cowboys, Rangers, etc. But there seems to have been a huge change from when the ownership transferred from Mark Cuban to the current Sans Corporation group add. And there I I think that what really stands out to me, I’m curious your thoughts on this is that the principal focus is different. Mark Cuban cared about the Mavericks. Mark Cuban carried about cared about the city of Dallas and he cared about basketball. I don’t know if he had any care about the Dallas Stars other than realizing that probably good for having a you know your co-tenant your your business partner for the arena to at least be amicable. I feel I feel like that that is not the same anymore with the new ownership group with the maps. Well, it the other thing like gets big and I want to make sure I want to double once again I’m not a lawyer so I want to check on something but I think we’ve established that all three of us very much not lawyers I I don’t know what like modus operande or had corpus or any of that so I don’t know what it is you watch legally bond together I did the gambling thing is huge right like we have to talk we we have to talk about the elephant in the room the gambling thing is huge and the and the fact is when when it comes to think about how the current Mavs ownership group made their money it is in casinos it is in gambling And when it comes to legalizing it in Texas, that is something that will benefit all all sports teams. But I don’t think they’re interested in buying this team if there’s not a real path to legalizing just to be NBA owners. I do want to hop in. I I don’t want to cut you off, Sean, but Rick Weltz recently a very actually this video has not gotten a lot of traction. We talked about it a little bit on DLS Mavs one day a couple weeks ago, but uh Rick Weltz went on the Bloomberg podcast and on that podcast, this was again a few weeks ago uh for the first time publicly said the Mavs actually do not hold the expectation anymore that gambling will be legal in time for them to build the arena. Uh and so they’re proceeding under the impression and and under the the mindset that this will not be a casino resort. Yeah. still be a basketball specific arena with entertainment and real estate ventures around there. Yes. And they want 50 acres. And so that’s that’s a pretty Star they want 75 acres. That’s even more. Yeah. Victory Park is about 70 acres. So the Stars want even more than that. Yeah. And the the other thing that people have to remember, I know I’m sure a lot of people know this, but it’s something that it’s The other funny thing about Texas legislature is it meets every other year. That is one of the most bizarre things about Texas legislature. And um from when I worked in Austin, I would occasionally get the freelance gig having to help out at the Texas legisl with the with the legislature session. And uh the reason it meets every other year, ironically, is because probably 60, 70, 80 years ago, it probably wasn’t safe to travel to the state so big. It was that’s literally the reason that they meet every other year is how it’s been explained to me by actual um government reporters who understand all of this. So, um, so it’s one of those where like it’s not like, uh, other states where you pass if you something doesn’t pass in 2025, you’re like, “All right, well, we’ll get to it next year.” If something doesn’t pass in Texas, all of a sudden it’s like, “All right, well, two years from now, we’ll talk about it again, right?” Like, that’s one of the weirdest parts of of this element when you talk about those timelines. The other thing that’s just I can’t once again, not a lawyer, can’t help but wonder. So there was a you talk about like teams working together and and everything like that. I mean a year ago there was a uh the name of the coalition was the I want to get the exact name of it. Um it’s called the sports betting alliance was launched. Okay. Um it is and it was from a bunch of team b professional sports teams in Texas working together to help organize and and be part and help raise the profile to to legalize sports betting in Texas. That group included the Houston Texans, the Dallas Cowboys, the Houston Rockets, the San Antonio Spurs, the Houston Astros, the Texas Rangers, and the Houston Dash. Ironically enough, there are two teams I did not mention there. the Dallas Stars and the Dallas Mavericks. From my understanding on things is the Mavericks have been very obviously they’re very pro gambling, but they are also very much they have their own ideas of things and the Stars also have their own ideas of things a little bit. So to see those two entities now talking about arenas and and obviously gambling and everything like that having various opinions and ways they go about each other, knowing that history and now seeing it kind of all come to the forefront, it makes a ton of sense. So, um, again, I’m not a lawyer and I need Owen here to kind of help me get back on track because Okay, that’s right. Bobby, the final question here because we are running out of time here, but we’ll have a lot more as this this develops. It feels very messy. It feels like the kind of divorce where the kids are going to probably have split custody and maybe not get along even though you get double presidents and maybe presents and couple holiday or extra holidays. Where do you think this goes over the next bit going forward? This feels like more than just a Dallas thing. It feels like a national thing now. Yeah, I think Messi is the right word for it. And Ryan, could you throw back up the comment that you just had up there a few seconds ago, too, about so that the the Aden family and Patrick Deont by extension pretty understandably unpopular among the Mavs fan base right now. And you know, these these this family is outsiders. They’re not from Dallas. They’re not from here. They’re private equity. they run, you know, an international uh gambling enterprise. Um, and they traded Luca and really they’ve done a lot of things here that have uh kind of ruffled the feathers of the fans understandably. And so even if you know my my snap reaction to this whole thing before I read the lawsuit or before I read the Dallas Morning News expose, all this stuff, my snap reaction was even if the Mavericks are right, I still don’t know if I care that much. you know, like I don’t necessarily think that the Maverick’s ownership group has uh done enough, you know, to uh to sew trust and to, you know, really build goodwill with the fans. And so if you are going to create a house divided then I think they need to be prepared you know just because of optics alone they need to be prepared for a lot of Dallas sports fans to side with the stars even if the stars are in the Uh-huh.

The Dallas Mavericks have filed a lawsuit against the Dallas Stars, according a Dallas Morning News report, related to control of American Airlines Center’s controlling company, arena upgrades, finances, and much more. With both the Stars and Mavs planning to leave the AAC when their leases expire in 2031, we’re left to wonder why this lawsuit could even be happening. Owen Newkirk and Sean Shapiro are joined by DLLS Mavs’ Bobby Karalla to discuss what the suit means, why it’s happening, and to assess how fans feel about it. (Spoiler alert: It’s not great.)