Jason Demers Talks Sharks’ Improved Blueline | EP 109 Demers on Sports Psychology & Mental Health

Jason Demers Talks Sharks’ Improved Blueline | EP 109 Demers on Sports Psychology & Mental Health

Welcome to the San Hockey Now podcast. It’s going to be Avengers Assemble for today’s episode. Keegan’s going to join us in a little bit. Dan Bo is going to follow in a little bit. And finally, we have Jason Dears on this show. JD is coming on to talk all about the Sharks defense. We’re also going to talk about Mlin. Mlin Mlin. How good is Mlin Celbrini? But before we get to Jason Dear, let’s talk about bring hockey back. Bring hockey back. That’s where you got to go for all your t-shirts, your hockey t-shirts, your Sharks themed t-shirts, and your custom hockey jerseys. Need a hockey jersey for your beer league. Need a hockey jersey for any event. Hockey back. Bring hockey back. That’s where you go. Code San Jose hockey now for 15% off. So once again, bring hockey back. Bring hockeyback.net. Code San Jose hockey now 15% off. I had some friends recently tell me that their jerseys got caught up in like delivery from China is I think where they got them from. So order with bring hockey back now. All my uh rinkrats at Sharks Ice, let’s support bring hockey back. Actually, we might need some some filler jerseys for our turkey cup. So I’ll have to I’ll have to hit them up myself and use the promo code. All right, let’s get let’s get right into it. Shangers. Uh, let’s not waste any time. Where do you want to start? So much good hockey. So, I am I just landed from Seattle. I was in Seattle last night at a 5:30 a.m. flight out of Seattle. And so, uh, we have kind of a disjointed show. I’m going to be leaving actually in about 30 minutes because I got to get down to Shark Ice for a very optional practice. But, nonetheless, I had to be down there for that. We’ll get some kind of update maybe on Michael Misa’s injury situation. But anyway, we’re having Jason Demerz on in about a half hour or so, 20 minutes or so, talk about the Sharks defense. Before we do that though, let’s talk about the Sharks forwards a little bit before we get to JD and Dan Bole’s thoughts on the on the D. So, okay. So, we have a few injuries to talk about first. I’ll get those out of the way. So, William Ecklan very unfortunately daytoday not put on IR yet but he’s playing some of the best hockey of his career but he’s out dayto day for now hopefully not too much longer Ryan Reeves also dayto day he is also playing excellent hockey for the Sharks doing a good job in the fourth line not related to the defense but Nick Ley he is slowly working his way back he’s been practicing for days and days um I suspect that he’s healthy but it’s just their roster crunch that were kind of keeping him on IR because they can. Okay, now we have Michael Misa and that’s where I’m going to involve Zubar into this. So, Michael Misa was supposed to play yesterday in Seattle, but he got hurt in morning skate with a lower body injury. Now, I know a lot of people think that he suffered contract itis and the Sharks are trying to trying to keep him from playing so they can delay their decision, but no, he was supposed to play yesterday and he’s at I think six, seven games. So he’s not clo that quite at the at the 10 game mark yet. So they have a little space with him. But anyway, Michael Misa, the decision is in the air whether they keep him or not. The more that I check around, I think that I think it is in the air a little bit. It’s not as maybe certain as it became for Sam Dickinson. And so what do you think about that, Zubar? I mean, I think obviously contractionally he can’t go to the AHL as we know, which I think would be the best place for him in his development. So, you’re only left with two options um at this point. And of the two options, I think he doesn’t really have too much more to learn in the OHL. Um so, I think he he stays. Obviously, contractionally, Sharks have to make some room. Um, and that’s something that the the Sharks are going to have to figure out. Mike Greer is going to have to figure out. You know, we’ve talked about it already. I think Michael Misa has already looked better, you know, his first seven games than than Will Smith did in his first seven games. And you know what, the other thing that I see with the Sharks is he has a lot better insulation this year than Will Smith and Celbrini did last year. Um there’s a better veteran group. Um you know, even now is a bit of a veteran himself. Um Celibbrini is the highest point scorer in the league. Uh and looking great as a first line center. So I think Misa’s also got better insulation than previous Sharks lineups the last couple of years. And uh I think they have the right attitude for him to to continue um with the Sharks this season. So I think it’s best to leave him up. I believe in his hockey IQ and for him to learn the game um with the Sharks. So that’s my opinion. Hey Keegan, what’s up buddy? Who we have here? Joined a little bit late. How’s everybody doing? Yeah, good. That’s good. Uh we are talking Sharks forwards now before Dan Bole and Jason Dearis come comes on. Dan is scheduled to come on in about 10 minutes. JD is about going to come on about 25 minutes from now. So, like I said, this is a special Avengers Assemble episode of the Sound of Hockey podcast. I’m going to be leaving in in 30 minutes. So, you guys will get to carry the load. Yeah, exactly. Captain, we are starting though to talk about Michael Misa and it’s my belief that the decision to keep him or not is more up in the air than than I think it became for Sam Dickson. I think with Sam Dickson in the end it was fairly obvious they were going to keep him even if they kept it koi for for a while and um Zubar just just gave his piece on it. I’ll I’ll I’ll give my thoughts really quickly and then we’ll we’ll throw it to you Keegan. But I think with with Michael the one thing that I’m not seeing yet that we saw with Sam Dickinson is and you’re right Zubar that he does look better than Will Smith through whatever five six games. Uh six games I think it is. um he has more insulation, he has better veterans around him. You could also argue though that the Sharks are a better team. So maybe they can’t caddy around a guy all year either. So that’s another way to look at it. But I think the main thing though I would say though about about Michael is that versus Sam Dickinson is that I don’t know if I’ve seen the improvement for Michael Misa yet that we saw with Sam Dickinson. um that kind of that bounce back from a really rough game that we really really loved about Sam Dickinson that kind of mental fortitude. Uh I tend to think that it is better for Michael Misa to stay up here because I think he will get better like like Will Smith did because he is so smart. But I can see the argument though to send him back in the sense that he will get to work on his body which is a very very main number one thing he needs to do and he’ll get to do that in O even though he’ll be playing a lot of games but he’ll still be able to do that just develop more whereas Sam Dickson didn’t need that part of it right Sam Dickinson looks like John Klingberg made a a funny joke yesterday John Clingberg zinged Sam Dickson he was like yeah he looks older than me he does group 33. Yeah. But anyway, so I’m a little either way about it. I can see if they do send him back the reasoning for it. But I still think they should keep him. I think he will get better, but I think that as of now, if you just look at his precise play, um there’s an argument to send him back. Yeah, I I um came in late here, so I don’t know what uh Zubar had had mentioned. Um but I think it’s um I would keep him. I think he’s got versatility enough to stay in the lineup and the games that he has played. It’s not like there’s anything that I I’ve seen that you can point to that say that like he’s not winning like enough battles or not winning enough to to stay. And like what I’ve liked from him is just he has shown some offensive creativity. There’s been I think enough of an an improvement even if it is it’s harder because he’s been in and out of the lineup. There’s been injury concerns. He’s like hasn’t gotten the stick really. He hasn’t had that that opportunity to really stick for a prolonged period. So I don’t know. The moments that I’ve seen from him I really liked. So I would I would want to see more of it. But that’s more selfishness than anything. I I also don’t I don’t know if going back is going to do much for him more than anything. That’s my my biggest concern with him is yes, he could work on his on his frame and and add some more muscle, but you could also argue that you can do that in the NHL, too. So, you have more time obviously and you can dedicate more time in the OHL than than trying to survive in the NHL. But, um yeah, I don’t know. I would I would say I would want him to stay, but I also understand the if they send it back, I will be a little little sad, but I get it. Um or if they do the whole like because they don’t have to send it back at nine games either. That’s the other thing is like that’s just kind of the that’s like the expected because that’s just when the contract will will um uh eat up a year. So, but they could keep him even longer and then play him until the World Juniors and then play him until like the OHL trade deadline and then send him back kind of thing. So, if they really wanted to keep him in the NHL and then get him good experience in the OHL, they could do that. They would just burn a contract year of of his ELC, which GMs don’t love to do, but they could still do it um if they wanted to. So, I don’t know. I say keep them up. That’s just my opinion. I had a highly improbable that they would burn a year just just for that. I I don’t know. That’s GMs are very um with other prospects. Um but unusual. What’s the last last one? I was trying to think about it off top of my head. Uh it was like seven years ago, but it was it was roasted though, right? For wasting a year maybe. But the other thing is with the contract structures and how they they’re changing sometimes you just want to get them to their like here’s your big money for eight or seven eight years or whatever and you eat up like the all of their 20s when they’re the most productive rather than pushing it out and then get their early 30s in their big contract as well. So, there’s some argument to say like, well, yeah, you earn a year, but if you think who he’s going to be, you get him locked in early at a lower salary cap. I don’t know, could be worth it. Um, GM’s like like Jack Hughes has signed like a ridiculously cheap contract um for what he brings and that’s kind of a similar thought is he burned through his ELC’s so quickly that it was now he’s superstar making not superstar money. So yeah, my I think though the my number one push back to what you said Keegan though is you mentioned that there you haven’t seen anything on the ice that says he should be sent back and I feel like I I have I think there’s a reason why his number his minutes have been so limited and I don’t think it’s the coach restricting him because coach doesn’t like young players or something like that which I know has been suggested online. So look at that LA game, right? Which everyone loves to point to the eight shots in 10 minutes. Just really just watch. I challenge anybody to watch the first period of that LA game and tell me that Michael Misa is absolutely belongs in NHL. Just watch that and just watch his shifts and come back to me with that. And I know he got eight shots later, four shots in like a 1 second time frame. That’s great. But just watch that first period. And I know we keep using a Will Smith comp, but maybe that’s not right though because the Sharks team is actually suddenly better than that team from last year. It’s a different team basically. So anyway, um let’s uh we’ll just Oh yeah, no worries. Two two quick points. So I guess one thing I would say is the question really is I we agree that his off puck and off ice training needs to be professional level for him to develop strength, speed, etc. compete. The question is is he going to develop that better in San Jose or in Sagena? Um and I I I think there’s a large case to be say like around professional development that the Sharks have he might he he’s likely to develop faster there um than going back uh just because of organizational structure and facilities right so I think that there’s a strong case for that the other thing I would say is you know often the best indicator of someone’s future behavior is their past and that’s like the data you look to predict outward and, you know, exceptional status, someone who has been underage and eventually risen to the occasion in every league he’s ever played in. Um, and I think that precedence provides enough trust uh that he will learn the game at the NHL level sooner than later by staying with the Sharks. Sure, that’s fair. So, so those are the last two points I’d make. Yeah. I I think they should. I understand they don’t though is all of them. I wanted to talk a little bit about Mlin Cabbrini and we’re going to talk a lot or you guys will spoiler and Jason has another half hour of Mlin the Mlin Cbrini hour. Mhm. But one thing that I’ve noticed about Mlin that I’m going to kind of track more. Last year he was a rookie and of course he had a swagger but it was quiet though. you wouldn’t hear him talking like in the room as much this year though and I’m talking about when media are around this year though Mlin is loud and Mlin it that just that is not an example of it becoming his room but coupled with again what John Klingberg said after yesterday’s game against Seattle where John Klingberg said that the room is becoming Mlin’s and I asked Ryan Warski that and Ryan Warski He added to that. Ryan Warski said that Mlin is fearless and the guys see that and couple that with like said what I just said about this quiet swagger becoming a loud swagger and it makes sense that Mlin Celerini is doing what he’s doing because he’s realizing just how good he is, what he can do in this league that it is indeed even though he’s just 19. Last year as a rookie it wasn’t his room but now it is it is his room and so I just find that interesting there just kind of a change that you see in players. I saw it with William Mecklan from when Willie Meckllin was 18 to now. But Will but Williams kind of development was was slower in that sense of of Eklan gaining that confidence right which I really saw last year and this year with Mlin it’s a little more well last year as a rookie and now he is a top five top 10 player. I did want to add too before we get Dan on that man we beat everybody to it with our podcast last week. I got to give give us credit for for that. The Min Celebr hype train has really it we started it but everybody has jumped on the bandwagon in the last exploded though. It’s like every time I turn on the TV that after the Islanders game it’s Mlin Mlin Mlin on on NHL network constantly now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is awesome. Hey, hey, I got to say though again we started it the week before that after the island game on the pod we were checked in next year. He is. We were like, we believe. We’re like, uh, John Cusack can say anything. We had the the boom box up like Mlin. I needed You needed a whole episode for Mlin. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let’s go. Yeah, that was a fun episode to listen to. I wasn’t on last week. That was a uh I was like, you guys are still going. Like every time I listen back in, I was like, “Oh, more Mlin talk. More Mlin.” It’s not stopping. All right. When uh when Dan and JD come on. So, well, maybe they want to talk about Mlin. I don’t know. I’m sure they will want to talk about him. So, we’re kind of running to topics fast because I want to when we have JD and Dan on, I want to focus a little more on the Sharks defense and particularly JD, they’re both obviously Dan and Dan Sharks defenseman, great Sharks defenseman. So, I think they’ll have something good to say about that. But another thing I want to move on when we go past Mlin is I think that we shorted Alex Weenberg. Mhm. Um I think we said a couple weeks ago maybe not having the the the best season, but I got to look back at at at all the numbers, but then Alex Weenberg, and I don’t know, I don’t think he’s going to sustain offensive production, but then we watch Alex Weberg hard match against Nathan McKinnon and actually hold his own in that matchup and hard matched at home against Nate. So that’s the matchup that the Sharks chose against Nathan McKinnon. And Nathan McKinnon his line scored two goals in that 32 Sharks win, but neither against the Wenberg line. So want to give give Alex a lot of credit here because he has sort of under the radar become the Shark Shutdown defenseman. And I think I talked about it maybe a month ago or so that talking to people that around the league talked about how kind of underrated defensively Alex is. And I think that was a great example of it. And I bet if we look at some of his numbers earlier this season where maybe he wasn’t producing offensively, but he probably had all these hard matchups and we just weren’t watching it closely enough and giving him enough credit for it. So, I I completely agree with you and if but also in the beginning of the season when he wasn’t producing offensively. I mean, as a shutdown D guy, if you’re I think he was a -7 in like the first five games. Um, you know, but he was playing that defensive role. I think what has changed is his linemates. I think Yeah, that’s true. Ekan, too. and and Ekan started to play Ekkan started to play a lot better and and Skinner looked good last night on that in that line. But I think what happened now and and Worski talked about it in one of his interviews too where he’s like let’s play in their zone. Wenberg’s great at puck protection. He’s really good in the boards at protecting the puck and holding on to pucks. I think his linemates learned how to play off of him. Um I think in the beginning of the season you saw his linemates a little confused on, you know, how to move off the puck with when Wenberg has it, but he will find you. uh you know, he found Cardwell last night with that great pass. Um and you just have to kind of open up and trust that he’ll find you and he can dish the puck. And so I think to your point, Shang, he he was good defensively on the puck all season. I don’t think that’s changed. I think what’s changed is his linemates ability to play off of him. Yeah, that’s a really good point. He’s got guys that are putting the puck in the net more frequently and he’s always been that good playmaker, but um there’s always been that like we’ve talked about it before, that leaving you wanting bit. of his game. He’s not always like the He’s not going to be your number one center. He’s like a good middle sixer. So, yeah, but he’s been proved for sure. Boilser. Boiler. Jesus Christ. It sounds like somebody bringing in a lawn mower. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, my landscapers are here. Wow. Somebody’s fancy. He’s got landscapers. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry about that. My bad. It’s all that all that podcast money I’m making. Just in time to talk about Mlin Celerini again for another hour. A whole hour. Oh, let’s talk about him for another half hour. Let’s go. He’s awesome. He’s awesome. That’s it. He’s awesome. He’s great. It’s done. Yeah, he’s great. He’s great. But it’s great to be watching a team that’s winning hockey games. This is like the weirdest moment in six years for me. I don’t know. It’s been a very strange two weeks. It’s like I It’s like I’m watching a Sharks team from 15 years ago again and I and I love it. It’s It makes me just so happy. And what I what it’s also been fun is like they’ve been beating good squads. Mhm. Really good teams keeping three of the best teams in the league to two goals a game against. And honestly, like I didn’t expect the Sharks to be this good. Let’s consistency matters. Let’s see if they could hold it out. But the Greer the Mike Greer plan is working very well. Got to give him credit. Um you know after that LA game, right? And you’re like making excuses for LA. You’re like well that was the last game of their of their uh fivegame road trip and so that’s why the Sharks dominated them. Next game against I think it was New Jersey. Well they were on a backtoback. Next game against Colorado, well they were also on a backtoback and then they played Vegas the night before and they just keep playing good games. keep stringing good games together. So really have to have to give him credit. Actually that leads to actually my f unless you guys have any more thoughts about the forwards. We’ve already talked about Michael Misa. We’ve talked about Mlin a little bit. We talked about Alex Wenberg. So any more thoughts about any of the forwards before we jump on to kind of uh the final topic before I leave and before Jason Dearis comes on and you guys talk about the Sharks defense. But any any more thoughts forwards? NHL player of the week, Kers. I like Graph. I like Graph. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kersev, too. I thought you would talk about him. I like Graph. I know he’s on the fourth line and seeing limited minutes, but um I like his work ethic, you know, short-handed goal assist, I guess, uh the other night or last night. All over Vince Dunn. Great play all over. I just think the kid’s got he’s smart and, you know, with more ice time, with more opportunity, I think, uh he’s he’s going to be an interesting player to watch. Yeah, good already. Yeah. No, sorry. We talked about a little bit last week. Boilers, I want to get your thoughts. I noticed Graph is like really good at playing the body actually, especially on like when he’s forchecking. He He just has guys run into his chest and he does not let that puck out. Um as opposed to letting guys fly by. I don’t know. It’s something I’ve just noticed about him a lot recently. Yeah. I mean, it doesn’t have to be the biggest hit. If you can stop a defenseman that wants to go on the offensive side of things, if you can just stop his momentum, it’ll almost kill his desire to. So, for example, if I know I’m going to take a I’m going to go on this rush right now and uh Ford, you know, just gets a piece of me, it may make me go, you know what, I’ll just wait until the next opportunity. No need to, you know, take the extra effort, the extra stride to get back in there, you know. So, it’s it discourages defenseman to to jump up in the play and obviously at some point it’s going to cause some turnovers which I’ve seen. Yeah, I’m just really impressed with what he’s done. Oh boy. Oh [ __ ] Oh boy. Great Sharks defenseman Jason is jumping on. Talks a little too much according to Dan Bole, but we love JD Angel Network. Still talking a lot on Angel Network and doing a bangup job of it. So JD is here to talk about the Sharks defense. But before we get there though, and I got to leave myself in 10 minutes, guys. So just just so you guys know, I got to get to Shark. Where you going, Shang Pang? Tell us where you’re going. Sharks because I’m doing the Oh, I thought I thought you had a Tinder date. No, no, not at a Tinder date at 11:00 a.m. in the morning, then I’m doing very well. Thanks for the update. But okay, so Sharks are 52 and one in their last eight. So, the kind of the the main topic I want to talk about or the topic I want to talk about before you guys talk about the defense is what do you guys think are the biggest elements of the for the Sharks resurgence? Basically going 52 and one. My three big things. Curious about all of your guys’ thoughts. I love their 2124 check which they started in the Pittsburgh game. More skating, more aggressive. It’s really I think helped them a lot. It’s a good skating team with Mlin, Tyandria, Barkley, Goodroill, guys like that. Guys who are really, we just talked about Colin Graph. guys who are really on top of the puck like that. So, I think that’s helped them a lot. Create more turnovers, create more pressure on other team, take pressure off of their defense. Number two, their puck management has been much better since that Utah game. It was ugly in that Utah game. Since then, much better. And number three, I would say I don’t want to say just one player. I know the obvious player is Malcolini, but the underrated guy is Dmitri Orof. I don’t think we knew how good he was. And I think he’s done a lot for the Sharks defense to stabilize it in all areas. Yesterday, who is it? Brandon Monour tries to split the Sharks D. He gets hip checked by somebody. I look back, of course, it’s Demetri Orlock coming like a like a Mac truck at Brandon Monthour. So anyway, do you guys have any thoughts on just big elements for the Sharks Resurgence? Jason, why don’t you lead us off, sir? Wow, look at me. Look at me leading us off. Thanks for having me. I got it’s like I got I got teacher. I’m looking at Dan Bole on the screen going I gota I got to make sure I’m mining my P’s and Q’s when I got my Let me let me get listening. Let me get one thing. Let me get one thing out and then we’re going to hear from JD. So I always ask my buddy back home cuz he watches and he’s like I’m like how how’s the response? Pretty good. He’s like yeah but one guy’s like you know he’s not happy cuz it’s like what you say is like seems to be like you’re preaching and you’re always right. Listen buddy whoever you are. I’m just a [ __ ] opinion, okay? I’m an opinion. I’m not right all the time. Probably 90% of the time I’m right, but I’m just an opinion. Okay? 95. So, whoever you are, whoever you are, it’s called a [ __ ] podcast. It’s called an opinion. Doesn’t mean I’m right. Um, Keegan could be just as right as I am. You don’t. The guy was like, “Well, you don’t have to be an NHL player to be a good coach. Look at soand so.” I’m like, “Dude, calm down. It’s just an opinion. Enjoy.” be like, I can’t hear you with my Stanley Cup ring in my ear. I have tree Stanley Cup in my hair. Tree Stanley Cup in my hair blocking my ear. All right. Sorry. But we we know that Ryan Warski though has we don’t know this for sure, but it sure seems like Ryan Warski has a exurner because he seems to know everything that the fans are saying. So Dan Bole is saying that he has a fan a friend of his who reads all your comments. So watch. I don’t I don’t any so that could be it could be Warsovski that’s mad. It could be. Anyh who, uh Jason, I apologize. I apologize, but why don’t you let us know your thoughts on the on the demon. Sorry about that. No, I mean, listen, I think this is kind of a a work in progress. You got a lot of guys here that are like veterans on proit years. You have guys, some young kids coming up. You got Dickinson, you got Muk Madulan, you got Dehar, you have, you know, you have a mix of guys. So, I didn’t really know how it would pan out and I think it was a little rocky early on for them, but they’re starting to kind of find a little bit of a rhythm, but and and Dan knows this, you know, they say the for check they changed. When you’re kind of struggling and and a 122, you need a lot more. I don’t want to say like to discredit the guys and the Sharks, but like it requires more brain power to run a 122 and run it effectively. A 212 is more like, “Hey, we got some speedy guys.” This just means you know where you’re supposed to be at all times. You forch check, you see numbers, you go Dman, you pinch center reload, and at least it protects you from giving up those big chunk plays that kind of the Sharks have been known to do, especially early in the season, giving up leads and stuff like that. So, they found they found a good rhythm. And I feel like last year they should have went to the 212. I know Panger, when I was calling some games on the road, I wanted him to go to the two on two really early. I just think it’s a good forch check to learn from as a as an NHL player to learn about being in the right spot, staying on the gas, going on offense. So, it’s worked out well. But on the D side, I mean, John Clingberg is kind of doing what I thought he’d do since he’s been healthy is is providing a spark to that power play. That’s big. You know, I talked to TFoley before the year and I was like, I think this PP can maybe steal you some games because Clinger at his best is not a Dan Bole walking the blue line, but he knows how to walk the blue and has some similarities of the way, you know, Dan, how he moves and and it’s hard to find Demon that can walk the blue uh effectively and like influence the that first defender coming at you. So, he’s done really good. I think Mullan’s like I mean he’s he’s done a lot better than expected. But I think he’s understanding his role a little bit better just being, you know, stick on puck simple. Don’t try to do anything too crazy. And you know, the big question mark will be how much does Sam Dickinson develop this season? You know, you see flashes of it. I still think he’s very green. Very green. Uh, you know, I this he’s got a lot of issues, I think, with his stick placement in the Dzone and kind of where he’s putting his body. So, I think once he figures that out, I think he is when you see those flashes, Dan, you’re like, “This is a guy that can that can that can play big minutes and really be comfortable.” So, there’s a lot to like. I I I still think it’s a work in progress, but it’s nice to see the guys kind of finding some a rhythm together. I know it was tough. They’ve been trying to figure out pairings that work, and it’s going to I think it’s going to kind of be like a carousel all season long for these guys. So guys are going to have to get comfortable playing with multiple partners which I know at times is tough but they got some veteran guys there and you touched on Orof at the end to kind of cap it all off is you know this is kind of you know he had a good year last year and and I think the playoffs a lot of people had a bad taste in their mouth the way that ended against Florida and I think it hurt him a little bit. So now he’s kind of rebuilding his uh his reputation and I think this is a good place to do it. So I think he’s he’s doing what he was brought in to do. I didn’t think he had a good start. I thought it it was was a little it was tough to start, but he’s starting to find his game now and and uh yeah, so it’s just a sneaky decor I think can can help this kind of guide this young forward group as we move into the season. I want to talk about John Cleanberg in particular here. I think we’ll kind of maybe run through uh focus in on some of these particular defenseman, but I don’t know how much you pay attention to it JD, but man, the the fans were roasting John Clingberg recently. And right after he came off of injury, Orlof had been running PP1 with some success. I think six goals in six six power play goals in six games with Orlof running PP1. Clingber comes back, four games with all the goal. Fans are just roasting him. But that was really strange to me because I mean if you look at just strong cling’s career, this guy knows how to run a power play. Yes, he had a few rough games. And anyway, I don’t know if you guys saw Ryan Warski is seeing the comments because a lot of fans were killing John Clingberg for his shot. I think he had a couple kind of shots like in a in a empty net situation or the Sharks pulled pulled pulled an attacker against maybe Detroit or LA and not the not the strongest of shots and so fans were killing John Clingberg’s shot. So anyway, yesterday after the Seattle game where John Cleber scores a power play clapper, somebody asked Ryan Wars about John Cleberg’s shot. Rosski just says he looks at that reporter. It wasn’t me by the way, but it says Yeah. Okay. Is everyone okay? Is everyone okay? Thank you. That’s all. So, we’ll just have criticism of Clingberg on it properly, which I get. I find crazy just because of how good he’s been. It’s just been four games. Not the best four games, but anyway, I I will jump in here. Um, yes, there’s a responsibility as a quarterback of a power play. Um, it’s almost like a a pitcher in baseball or or a quarterback, you know, if if if you can be playing well and if the team’s not scoring on the power play, you’re going to be probably the main you’re going to be the main person. So, yeah, they’re not they’re not going to talk about the guy that’s in front of the net or Yeah, they’re talking about they’re going to talk about the power play, the quarterback power play. So, I think when you go zero game or four games with no goals, that’s the guy that you’re going to pick on most of the time. So, I agree with JD. I think he’s got some nice obviously he’s got vision. I mean, he’s been doing in Dallas for years. He’s got some nice like what do you call them? 10 to twos or whatever once in a while that can kind of shoot shape. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, obviously as far as the shot, you know, you don’t have to have the hardest shot. Not everyone shoots at 100 miles an hour. It’s just about putting it on net, finding placement, and uh you know, some of that it does go along with good screens. But, uh, if I was me, I’d just give Min Cellrini the puck every [ __ ] time. Easiest easiest job in the world. But, yeah, but like to Dan’s point, like look at that goal last night. Like, that was a great shot, but look at the flash screen by Wenberg. Like, exactly. That’s what allows it. like you know I I always remember and it was my first kind of feray into the league is is watching you know arguably one of the best power plays ever and the power play with Dan Heater Patty Marlo Joe Thornton like when you think back to that power play Joe Pavvelski like that’s up there in the top five greatest put together PPS of all time and I used to watch them when they’d come down the wall to shoot and Patty that was the first time I’ve ever seen and heard of you know flash screens and Patty would be like, “Hey, when you’re about to shoot, I’m moving right here, so shoot at me.” And it’s like, that is a kind of a lost start in the NHL, but every time you see a good pass by screen, a flash screen, and it goes in, it’s like that is something. And you even see on the goal when he scores, Clingberg literally points at Wenberg, and he’s like, great flash screen cuz he knew exactly what he’s doing cuz Clinger used to do that with Jamie Ben. Jamie Ben’s another one is great in Dallas and he understands that. So, it’s just like and and to Dan’s point, exactly right, like you’re the guy that’s under the microscope. Doesn’t matter the quarterback, the guy running it. Doesn’t matter how many times you score. As soon as you miss three or four, it’s your fault. Put it on here, guys. So, all right. Have fun on your Tinder date. Yeah, sure. Let us know how it goes. I just want to close very quickly, though. Historically, Clingberg versus Orof on a power play, no comparison. So, there’s a reason why they put Klingberg back in there. So, historically, Clinberg is a PP1 guy or off is a PP2 guy. Simple. Anyway, all right guys, don’t let the in front of us. See you, buddy. Shangers with the flash screen. With the flash and he’s out. He’s out. I didn’t uh I didn’t know it was called a flash screen, but I do agree with JD. Sometimes when you look up and you see I mean obviously you want the forward the net front forward to to to to screen the goalie but sometimes if he’s taken away short side it almost you don’t want to shoot it there because you don’t want to [ __ ] ping your guy right in the chin or whatever. So it almost sometimes can backfire. But I do like the idea of a forward skating by the area. That way you don’t feel like you’re going to hit him. And I remember Dave Anderchuk, one of the best as well back in the day. He used to be like, “Shoot it at my chest,” which was weird, but I’ll get out of the way. So I, it wasn’t called a flash screen back then, but it was him letting me know that that’s the side I want you to shoot on, I will move. Uh, because sometimes if a guy does take netfront presence and doesn’t move, you’re not going to shoot there because you don’t want to hit him. And therefore, you’re you’re you’re you’re, you know, instead of having 20% of the net net open, you’re now looking at, you know, 5 to 10%. So, I thought it was a great screen as well, and I I noticed it last night. The uh I want to bring up the the Warsawski um responding to comments thing because I feel like if he really did respond to comments, like if he listened to what all of the people on online are saying, we’d be playing like 11 rookies sitting every single vet and then Ascar would be playing back to backs and stuff. Like that’s the problem is Clingberg like Shang was saying before you flash screen out of here has got this you know a very known quantity of what he can do and yeah he had four not so great uh efforts on the power play four games there but it was you know he’s giving him the trust that he’s going to figure it out and that last game he really did there was a great pinch he had to um during that game and yes I think that’s just another example of uh Warzo coming to his own too right like he’s respond responding to the media being like, “Are you guys happy now? Like, we’re winning.” And I think that’s really funny. I think fans don’t realize like it’s at the end of the day, it’s still not a development league. You veterans got to be there. You got to show guys the way to play. Even if they make mistakes, the veterans 90% of the time they’re playing the right way. So, it’s like you got to kind of follow that in some sense. You can’t play 11 rookies. And and I think that’s what, you know, my career and the Sharks kind of were looking to do more this year is bring in some veterans that can kind of help shepherd these guys a little bit. And you know, on the back end specifically, it’s better to have a veteran back end, I think, than a veteran forward group because you just want to you want to kind of have a few sprinks, it was like I was the rookie with, you know, five veterans and it’s like it helped me. I didn’t if I was with three other rookies, we’d probably be like it wouldn’t have worked out as well. Now, we had a you know much better team going for Stanley Cup, but like that’s always kind of Dman. You always want like one rookie, maybe two, but rest veteran guys like you want guys to kind of bring guys along. And I think up front you can kind of get away with it a little bit more like you know, you know, four or five veterans and then you kind of mix out some young guys. But D specifically, you want to have one or two, let them come up all together. I like that they got, you know, Muk Mullan and then they got Dickinson in there. I think it’s two good young guys and then you just surround them with your older guys. Yep. And I want to just add real quick um to the the 212 thing. Uh I didn’t you know I I just think playing aggressive hockey when you’re a when you’re an offensive minded puck hungry player uh that’s what you want to play. You don’t want to play the sit back game uh of like, you know, kind of back on your heels. You want to [ __ ] go as a Dman. I wanted to pinch. Obviously, you need a third man high or your your your forward needs to back you up, but it’s it’s it’s it’s the better, more fun way to play hockey. Um versus laying back and waiting on mistakes, which unfortunately some coaches still preach and want that. And maybe there is a place for that every now and again if a team’s tired, hurt, uh some other teams playing unbelievably well. There’s probably a few times during the course of the season where I think that’s applicable. But on most nights, guys want to [ __ ] go. Guys want to play. You’re only playing 10, 12, 13, 15, 20 minutes a night, guys want to [ __ ] go. And I think you’re going to get caught once in a while, but I think if 90% of the time you’re on the other team’s heels, you know, the Shark Tank used to be the hardest place. Everybody I’ve met over the years in my in my retirement, they remember saying the [ __ ] Shark Tank was the hardest place to play. They always felt like they was [ __ ] six on five for the first period. Every single guy, every single person I’ve met over the course of my freaking like since I played for the Sharks till I retired till now, Shark Tank’s hardest place to play. Well, why not get back to that? Obviously, you have to have the players. You have to have the players, but let’s get back to that aggressive style play. [ __ ] getting in, especially in the first period, getting the [ __ ] demen to pinch in forwards back them up. Like I said, you’re gonna make a an odd mistake here and there, but you want it to be a hard place to play against or a hard play building to play in. I and like I I I watch h you know you watch hockey now and anybody that plays the one 122 I’m just like there’s so many opportunities to pinch and giving your demon the green light is so important I think to like if you feel it and you see it pinch like if you’re looking and you have somebody back if you have if you have your centerman that is 50/50 with their third you know their third guy for me I’m like you’re going every time like every single time like if they are next to each other you’re going every single time pinching and it’s no non-negotiable. So real quick the game last night the first goal is Clinberg pinching in Mlin scores. Yeah, I mean maybe that’s the game right there. I don’t know if they lay back maybe they go down a goal and all of a sudden the game’s changed. They right away from the onset of the game all of a sudden we’re up one nothing with a minute in and it’s like [ __ ] And it changed the course of the game based on a pinch that turned into the best players [ __ ] hands who put the puck in the net. Yeah. A beautiful pinch. Like just Well, and unexpected like cuz I’ve been watching the Sharks so much it just hasn’t really been there and then all of a sudden I’m like, wait, he’s cut the puck or I’m going to let the dog out. Keep going. Keep going. Yeah. No. Uh, it’s just, you know, listening to what Dan says, but it’s crazy because, you know, for my my thesis on pinching always is even if you’re not going to get the guy, if you’re doing it at the right time and you’re not allowing them to get top speed, you’re always allowing your guys to get back. So, it’s like even if you’re just getting a piece of him, even if the puck gets chipped by you and he might get a just get by you and you kind of hold them up a bit, you’re still going to negate that that rush because you’re you’re shrinking the ice. You’re shrinking the the rink. You’re making it a lot smaller and you’re not letting them get to top speed and you also got to trust that your guys are coming back to Dan’s point. But when I feel as a Dman, when you don’t pinch and you back off, then forwards cheat more because they’re like, “Well, he’s not going to [ __ ] pinch, so I just got to try to turn this puck over on my own.” Once you start pinching more, they go, “Okay, I got to cover because the puck’s getting chipped by. That’s an opportunity for me to pick up this puck, stay on offense.” So it just ends up it ends up breeding confidence between the Fords and the Dman and that’s the most important thing. The um Shang had outlined pretty much every Dman for us to talk about. Um so we’ve talked about Clingberg. Um you’re we’re going to talk about Mugum Madull in a minute because I I I think I agree with a lot of what you’re saying JD about his improvement, but why don’t we talk about um what Nick Lety has brought so far. What have you guys seen from uh from Lety so far? Lety how he Well, he’s been out how long now? like 10 days maybe something like that. 10 days now, right? I I mean, you know, Nick Nick is a smooth skater. Uh I feel like, you know, it wasn’t the best start, but I think, you know, I think it was a weird I think it’s always tough when you’re kind of coming into this situation. I think it’s very difficult to to you still every team has aspirations to make the playoffs. So when you kind of hear the outside noise that you’re in a rebuild and you know maybe the structure is not there early in the season, it’s difficult to adjust to that as a demon, especially a veteran demon that’s been on some really good teams because you get frustrated and then you start you know creating bad habits and it’s almost like you know the older I got and I don’t know if Dan felt that way like if I was in the I needed more structure the older I got cuz I knew how to play within the structure and I you know you obviously know how to anticipate but you know how to anticipate within the structure. So for me, I was like, if I I’d go on a team where there’s zero structure and guys would kind of excel in that, I’d be like, “No, like I come on.” Like I need I need to know that when I’m pinching, I got somebody covering for me. I need to know when that I’m skating the puck, that I’m not somebody’s not [ __ ] me, my teammates, because everybody’s cheating all over the ice and this is just a [ __ ] show. So I feel like a little bit to start the year was kind of like that from a little touch and go, but you know, the injury, how healthy is he going to stay all year? Uh, you know, I’m not sure, but you know, I think he’s still a good he’s a veteran guy to have in the room and and and hopefully he’s around the guys. Lety boiler. The I think we’re getting a little It’s a It’s like the mukbang effect where every game he’s in, it seems like the Sharks are playing well and then every game that Ly’s been in, the Sharks haven’t played other than the Vegas game where he was in um that first game. Well, he was in he was in early and the Sharks were not playing well. Yeah, the sharks. I mean, his skating is his skating is is going to, you know, keep him keep him alive in this league for a little while. But, uh, just to jump on what JD said, uh, as far as structure goes, I’ll be a little bit more specific. Like, I think certain players like to play a certain kind of a way, whatever way that is, certain a player A might like this style, player B might like this style, and maybe as the Sharks play a little bit more aggressively, that may fit that may fit his style a little bit more. I don’t know because obviously nobody had a great start to the season. I think the decor as a whole, the goalending was pretty soft. Uh it was a great through seven, eight games of the season, I don’t think anybody on the back end or the or or or net was doing was doing very well. So yeah, that’s a big improvement too that we might not touch on, but Ascarov’s play and just the net play in general a lot more consistent. A lot less of that like you know those flubs that kind of plagued the Sharks in the beginning of the year. And I mean there’s been one or two but had good recoveries on one. Um was it net or Ascarov in the corner that had to get that poke check? I think it was Askarov wherever he like turned it over. That’s Yeah, that’s a that’s a mistake. Yeah. Or like that that just there’s going to be growing pains with with Asi I think big time. You know he’s very I I kind of sat with Spearsy a little bit last year and I was like what are you trying to get out of Asgrov? Because you know he’s got all this you know he’s crazy athletic. Yeah, you know, can bend backwards. He looks like a contortionist out there. But like when you’re kind of like that, you lean on it too much and then you get really wavy and you kind of look like the inflatable arm waving tube guy. Yeah. And then you holes, right? So like there’s holes. So it’s like I think they’re trying to just calm him down a little bit and allow him to just just stay positionally sound and then when you need to use that athleticism, use it. But you’re going to be better off that way. He’s kind of shown it cuz he made that save last night. That split save [ __ ] insane. That was massive. Inaggressive. Like as you’re sliding this way to still plant down and get that right leg was was pretty impressive. I was like, “Okay, there it is.” Yeah, I touched on it a little bit last week. Uh two things. Uh he was getting picked high. Uh, and I and I we I was talking about like every team you play, there’s going to be in the locker room before the game a picture of the goalie and where the last 10 goals were. And so he’s going to have to learn, you know, like I said, maybe it’s his glove, maybe it’s his blocker side or whatever it is or Nabby or whoever will help him out. And there’s a big difference between AHL players and NHL players, okay? AHL players are very good players. Yeah. But the NHL shooters, they can [ __ ] pick a corner. Okay. So, uh, there’s not two or three guys on NHL teams that can do it. There’s probably eight or nine. And so, you know, maybe at the AHL level, he got away with with that kind of stuff, but at this level, he’s going to have to fine-tune his positioning. And then when the time comes, like it did last game where he has to make an acrobatic crazy ass save that no one’s teaching him to do, that’s just his raw skills, then he gets to do that. But otherwise, positionally, he’s going to have to be a little bit more sound, understanding. He may have to carry this glove a little high or right-hander, I guess, a little higher than than normal because guys are starting to pick that corner a little bit. It it it’s funny, too, cuz you know, like in the A, it’s like there’ll be 15 chances in a game and maybe one or two will go in. In the NHL, they’ll be five to seven. Yeah. But they’ll be three or four. So, it’s like it’s just that level of finish is just way different. Yeah. Guys are guys again, AHL players are good, but NHL players are really [ __ ] I noticed him battling. Yeah, I noticed him battling more through screens, too. Like a lot of those when he was getting picked, he was like really crouched down looking for the puck and he’s standing a little bit more upright. And to JD’s point, I see him in the beginning, he was kind of overplaying the puck with his athleticism, like pushing too hard and like spreading out. Now he’s a little bit more dialed uh into controlling that. And I mean he’s been playing great last night. He was incredible. You know who’s like that early in their career was uh Carell Vamela in Utah and who’s in Arizona. He was like a classic overslider and was so strong and like would push and then all of a sudden like a guy would pause for half a second and he’s in the corner because he pushes so hard and it’s like it they’re just like [ __ ] relax. Like yeah, you’re going to get there. just get there and like just it’s like kind of like he’s just hopped up on goofballs. It’s just like, hey, just slow down a bit, you know? Let me uh let me hop on that. If a goalie if you look sometimes they have the camera angles from the blue line. If a goalie gets beat in the middle of the [ __ ] net, I keep saying [ __ ] Why? There’s a lot of [ __ ] You’ve seen I know every time. Well, it’s JD. JD, what you don’t know is that every time I say [ __ ] they all the people that are listening have to take shots. So people are bombed right now. But there you go. Yeah. So drunkish. I remember early in the season like guys like the puck was getting was hitting the net the mesh of the net in the middle of the net. Uh besides the five hole like it shouldn’t it shouldn’t the puck shouldn’t be at the center or the middle part of the net. And that means the goalie is overslid one way or another. And I agree with that. He was oversliding. There’s just being overly aggressive. Um, you know, the puck should never beat you in the middle of the net. It means you’re completely out of position for for the wrong reasons. He knows that he his down low play and it’s just an opinion. Whoever’s listening, it’s just an opinion. Dan’s goalie. Dan’s goalie school. We should mention that we are going to get How does Bo know what the [ __ ] he’s talking about? He’s not a he’s not a goalie. No, we are going to get a um um I can’t remember his name from magazine to come back on because he talked last year about Ascarov and he mentioned specifically he had some concerns about his blocker and his glove. He said down low this guy is lights out. It’s hard to beat him. He’s athletic as hell, but up high he had some concerns. That was the Asia level. So love to get him back on. I cannot remember his name. We played with We played with a goalie like that. No spoiler. Who? Nemo. Just kidding. Like I said, goalies goalies have tendencies, man. Yeah, goalies have tendencies. And uh like I said, with the shooter tutor with scouting reports. Yeah, it’s too much though. You know, for guys like Jody Shel, he’s not going to look at that because he’s not going to [ __ ] score a goal to save his life. Or Shang Pang, you know what I mean? Shank Pang in the beer league doesn’t need to look at the shooter tutor. He’s not going to score. But Zubar will. Zubar is going to look at it. There you go. And uh he’s going to pick the corner every time. Snip. What’s your flex, Zubar? What do you got? What are you an 85 guy? I No, dude. I I went down, but I’m not like you guys. I can’t afford buying the new twig. So, I went down to a 65 and I was ripping them. 65 spaghetti noodle. It was so much fun. Like ripping 65. But then I’d break them every two games. I was like, I can’t afford this. I’m not getting paid for this. So rolling in faceoffs are looking good though. Went back up to an 85. Some good slashes. Boys are getting the lumber. JD, what did you what what’s what what what did you play with? I started at a 95 and then I went to a 85. Then I kind of went back to a 95. It shows you how [ __ ] mentally [ __ ] I was. Can’t say can’t say [ __ ] That’s all right. No one’s listening. That’s fine. Toss some toothpicks on the ground. Test it out. Uh that just shows how mentally of a [ __ ] I was. I I mean I I switched with a little bit but I I ended I ended on like 84 and it you know cuz I even I wildly enough I I went to like 75 cuz I was like near the end of my career. I was like I want to see what these young kids are talking about. I’m like I’m watching all these these whippy shots. It is crazy, but like I’d go into the battle and like try to hack somebody and you’re literally like your sticks flexing and you can’t get any lumber on anybody. So, I kind of was like, h I didn’t love it too much. And I liked being more, you know, as I progressed into my career, I liked being more my stick being firm in the battle because I was like, you know, you know, I played a 110. I was a 110. You were a 110. Yeah. Because that’s because I I I if you ever Yeah. I was I didn’t I didn’t like the flex it it felt when I was stick handling or in a battle I didn’t like the feel of bend of my stick. Yeah. Um so obviously I didn’t have the hardest shot. You know I wasn’t Zidane Charara but I I did I did like a stiff shaft. You know what I mean? No, you had the you had the sweep shot. You had the sweep shot. Yeah, you were you were you were a power play defenseman that if you look at all the PP defenseman now, they have that little quick whip and you were you had the sweep, which not many guys have the sweep anymore. So, yeah, it was just it’s all preference, you know. It’s all preference. Uh I had to borrow your stick though once uh I think like broke my stick. You do the the the drive by on the the on the bench and I you grab the stick and I had yours for one and I was like, “Oh boy.” Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that cuz I went from 110 110. So the fans that don’t like the higher the number the stronger this the stick won’t bend and as you as you get to a lower number you’re talking like ovetkin where like there’s like a total curve in the stick and you just have to it’s like a wrist motion. The stick does the work for you. I think I think I remember when you So So yeah. So, you break your stick in a play when you’re kind of in the rush and you you skate by the your team’s bench and all the righties will hand put their sticks out and then you just grab one. And so, I remember had JD’s stick for one and I I got the puck in the offensive zone and it was like it was weird. He came back to the bench and he did that kind of Dan Bole where he’s like he does that like and then he comes back and here I am thinking like Dan Bole’s going to score my stick and he comes back he’s like this is awful. And I was like, “Well, okay. Makes me feel better about myself.” Two hes on. Two hitches on. I know. That was back that was back before like the the trainers would would literally grab the stick. Well, they’d go and grab the stick. This is like That was like you’re getting whoever whoever you’re getting. If the guys weren’t paying attention, lefties would like put their left sticks out and be like, “Oh, fuck.” No. No. Skating around with with Doug Murray’s shaft running around there. Crankshaft. What kind of sharpening was do you guys rock? F I was depending on where I was was 58 or a half inch. Okay. I didn’t know till I uh retired and I went back to do a Sharks alumni game for a couple years ago and I said uh do whatever. I I had no idea. I don’t know what I had. I still don’t I still don’t. I didn’t know till I was like the last three or four years. I I had no idea until he told me that day. But I Yeah, I think I was different there as well. I had a different uh hollow. Is that what they call it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would they change 58 is like the is the common standard 58 standard standard. Yeah. Yeah. I dropped to an inch racing and then guys like Patty would had other ones. The inch is fire. Like you’re flying out there. You can just glide as long as you Yeah. But the problem is is if you’re on the wrong ice like I I would do the inch the half inch and like I’d like to picking of the boards if like it wasn’t like good ice like if it was like cuz you slide everywhere like you’re like standing there and your feet are just sliding apart. Yeah. Exactly. Like Yeah. You can’t stop or anything. You’re dead 100%. All right. So let’s I want to get back to Sam Dickinson. And actually JD, I got a question for you because I’ve been loving all your talks recently on like the mental health part of the game and that’s something that Dan’s talked about as well and I just find very interesting. Um, and so and I I do have a background in like micro behavioral economics or the intersection of psychology and economics and I just find this stuff so fascinating and you know you talk about confidence a lot and and in in how to play the game with mental health and Sam Dickinson you know after he found out that he was staying with the Sharks uh on his 10th game um you know he had the best game he’s played this season and and after that even last night he looked and you’re starting to see him jump up in plays and be natural self and yeah, I just wanted to see what you guys are seeing in Sam and also talk maybe a little bit about the what that could mean in terms of confidence to a player from your guys’ own experience. You want to go you want to take it, Dan? Uh, I’ll be quick. Uh, yeah. I mean, confidence in any sport, in anything you do in life, if you feel confident doing it, you’re going to perform better. Um, I went to school as a sports psychology major. I did not graduate with that, but that was my I really that’s what I was wanting to do with my life. But so I find it very interesting. I think the mind uh and I agree. I think knowing that the 10 games were kind of up, he was probably a little tentative. Uh now that that’s kind of taken care of, now he gets to take move on to the next step. And then I think the next one will be getting more minutes. Uh getting some power play time, getting some more opportunity. um start finishing a little bit. You know, I’ve seen some flashes. Uh if he can start putting the puck in the net here and there, it’s just going to create this confidence and uh I think we’re going to see a better, bigger, and better player moving forward. But it makes a huge difference. Any player you could you could literally take, you know, the best players in the game when they’re confident and nothing can be stopped. You’re going to make a you want to make a backhand sauce through the [ __ ] middle. You know, you’re going to make it, you’re going to do it, and you’re going to make it. Well, when you’re struggling, golf is a perfect example. That’s what I do now, and JD can probably attest to that. Like, you know, some days you’re gonna [ __ ] hit the ball down the middle. You know, you’re going to put it by the pin, and you’re putting it there. And uh the off days you’re you’re like, “H total doubt in what you’re going to hit and then all of a sudden, you know, slice into the woods or into the water.” So, confidence is is a major part of being an everyday NHL player and a very good player. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, Sam Dickinson, when you see him at his best and you see those flashes, you’re kind of like, this is this is what they’re hoping to get to. I think a lot of it is on your surroundings, too. I think, you know, the NHL is different now than it was. like I was, you know, lucky enough and and I’m so grateful that, you know, a lot of people when I talk to people about people that I leaned on when I was in the NHL and veterans and stuff like that, I always mentioned Dan’s name because I sat next to him a lot on the bench more than that’s the most I spent on a bench. So, people say, “Oh, Jumbo was great.” And Jumbo was super hard on me. And like Dan was always the one to be like grab me after Jumbo would tear a strip off me and be like, “Hey, like in French be like just [ __ ] play. Like just go play.” And Dan’s thing to me always was like, “What’s the worst that can happen? Just play. If you make a mistake, make it. But make it playing the right way.” And and so anytime I’d make a good play or make a middle pop, I’d come back to the bench and he’d kind of be there. And I got to sit front row and watch somebody who played a high-risisk game, but did it so well, but also played a, you know, Dan was never credited for like being a really good 200 foot defenseman, but he battled his ass off in the Dzone. So, for me, it was always like a great mentor to have. And I always tell people like that’s the guy that I sat next to. You know, I had these great veterans, you know, we had Rob Blake, but like getting emotional right now. I don’t know. Yeah. I I like I and I don’t know if I’ve ever told Dan this like personally like you know like I just like talking and you know I dealt with confidence and performance anxiety like at the highest level. It led me to abuse a lot of painkillers, drugs, alcohol, all sorts of narcotics, stuff like that. And I I kind of found my way back near the end of my career. So I blocked out a lot of like the initial parts of my career because I was so stressed and so hyper. But I always remember being on the bench and you know I had Rob Blake my first year and Rob Blake was a great veteran to follow but I wasn’t necessarily like in Dank it’s like Rob Blake Rob Blake was so laidback and I didn’t understand like I couldn’t get to being laidback and and I wasn’t Rob would still run you over but he was always very calm and I was more fiery and Dan was fiery. So, I’d look at Dan and be like I’d kind of watch him and I’d sit next to him on the bench and he was always he was huge for me. A lot of points at a lot of tough moments in my career early on when I was sitting on the bench being like down after a huge mistake cuz I made a lot of mistakes early on. I still made some good plays but I made mistakes. And he’d always be the first one to be there being like in French too being like just tell tell them to [ __ ] off. Like you used to tell me like tell them to [ __ ] off like don’t worry about it. The coach would tear a strip and he’d be like hey like don’t worry about it like it’s good. like just keep playing your game and and do your thing. So, I always appreciated that the older I got of of having that. So, I think for a Sam Dickinson, like you need those veterans to be like, “Hey, like go make that play.” Like, why not you like you you’ve done it. You did it your whole career. Like, why are you going to stop? Why are you going to change the way you play now where you’re at? And I think that was always the message I got from Dan’s like don’t change your game. Um like play your play your game. Yeah. Obviously, you have to still play within the structure, but when there’s a chance to make a play, [ __ ] make the play. Like, make it. Like, you’re there. Like, if you want to rush, like Sam’s a good skater. Like, get up in the rush. If you want to lead the rush, lead it. Make sure you get your ass back, but lead the rush. Like, don’t play don’t play stupid, but do what got you there. And I think that’s important for a lot of players. Like I think there is a level of adaptability that needs to be had in the NHL if you’re because I always say and there’s two leagues, you know, there’s the halves and the have nots and you’re going to be awarded a Sam Dickinson will have more leeway than somebody else to find their game. So for a guy like him, I’d always tell him when I’d be older like, hey, like you’re going to get the opportunities like don’t squander them, but like play the right way, but play like play your game. like do not try to confine and play like Muk Medulla. Like do not like don’t that’s not you cuz you’re going to be worse and he’s going to do it better. And then when you get to the guys that are kind of scrapping and clawing and you know cuz last year when I was there I’d talk to the Henry Thuns and the Jack Thompsons and I’d be like you’re kind of in that second tier. Like it’s going to be an uphill battle for you no matter what happens. You’re going to have to blow the doors off for you to like really compete and stay in this league. Like you have to find a way to adapt to whatever the team needs and then do that to 150%. So, it’s just like having those veterans around like Dan was so good for me. It allowed me to last longer in my career because of a guy like him versus and learning and understanding that and I think veterans play a big part especially on the back end because it is and Dan can talk about this. It’s a fickle. I think it’s the toughest job. I I just think D man is you’re required to do so much for so little praise and and there’s also such a fine line between a six defenseman and a and a top four and it’s like there’s sometimes like it’s just like there’s a lot of guys that don’t make it that are really good because they can’t grasp what it is to be a defenseman and play night in night out. So I think Sam’s going to have to learn that. And I know that’s longwinded, but that’s just to tie it all together of of him becoming what I think they need him to become and what they hope for him to become. And you see flashes of it. And again, when you’re waiting for that paper to get a apartment, you’re just sitting in the hotel like every day being like, “Are they going to call? Like, am I done?” You every mistake you make in practice, every mistake you make in a game. It’s so hard to get away from that. So, you could see that deep exhale from him. And then now he’s kind of now you’ll see a little bit better as he goes. So one thing I learned from all of this and great great comments JD is uh Dan you got you got to Yeah. Right. You got to find you got to let Sam live with you now. People were saying that he should I told Dan there’s there’s multiple guys. We’re [ __ ] petitioning this. There’s m there’s multiple guys and I’ve told Dan like to look at the development side like you know he’s because what what’s great about Dan and I I don’t mean to just be sitting here sucking off Dan um cuz Lord knows Lord knows he doesn’t need it but the great thing about Dan is he doesn’t pull any punches but he cares. So, it’s like people get people miss that and sometimes be like, “Oh, he’s just being a dick. He’s being damn like like on the hockey side of things, like when he’s talking to you and he understands the game, it’s like that’s why I’ve always said like go go sit around the demon.” Like a Sam Dickinson like obviously doesn’t play like Dan, but he’s got a way of being blunt, but you’re like, “Oh, I get it.” Like I get it. Like it’s like Yeah. And I I thank you for all that. I got goosebumps listening to you. Again, I wasn’t a first round pick. I I was I I was for four years. It was just in and out in Florida. Yeah. The the the the the advice that I gave was based on what I went through. And I remember telling JD a couple times, you were in and out of the lineup. I’m like, what are they going to do? [ __ ] take you out of the lineup? They’re doing it anyways, right? So, and I talked about this on on podcasts previous to this, but you got to it is it is a team game, but you are an individual and you have to find your game within a team concept. So, if Dan Bole or Sam Dickinson or Jason Demar tries to play uh the team game without playing their individual game within that, they’re going to get lost because we’re not first round picks. uh we’re not 6’5. Uh those guys, the first round picks and the 6’5 guys are going to get a much longer leash. So, uh you know, Dickinson obviously will have a longer leash because he’s both. Um, but I always try to like I I like Madwin was another one that I, you know, ended up being my partner for a year and came out of nowhere and I I wasn’t a dick to to my I’m a dick like kind of like as a more like a persona dick, you know, [ __ ] talk, but like to my guys, [ __ ] no. No, I always tried to support. If anything, like JD said, the coach would come in and ream guys out and I’d be like, because I kind of learned that with TORs, I’d be like, you know what? [ __ ] him. And I remember telling the story about Ramsay that would come down and go, “You know what he said to you? Do the opposite.” And I kind of took that and I was like, J, you know, guys would come down and you know, Todd or whoever would like lay, you know, lay in the JD, I’d be like, “Fuck him.” And they did it and they did it often. But there’s I always I always remember a game and I think it was and you know obviously the national but there’s a game I made a huge turnover and it was a scoring chance or a goal and I come to the bench and and I’m I you know you’re you’re skating towards the bench and I can see Todd already walking down and I’m like oh I’m going to I’m going to [ __ ] eat it and it’s like yeah beep mother beep and then you know I I finish and I’m kind of deflated and then just right next to me and Dan would kind of always lean low and he’d just be sitting there and he’d be like in French you just be like just [ __ ] that guy. So So the next shift So the next shift I’m like yeah you know what yeah like yeah [ __ ] him. So the next shift I went and I made like a behind the back pass. It ended up working out and I think it’s like Patty scored or something and I I kind of just like I was I should not have been taking that risk but I just riverboat gamble. It paid off and I get to the bench and Trent Yanni’s sitting behind me. He just leans in and he’s like and Dan’s kind of like right next to me and he just goes he goes you got some brass balls kid and Dan just like Dan gives me a and you know I just give me a punch. It’d be like a quiet like no one knew that he was saying it but you just give me like a punch and the and he’s just like he’s like there you go. He goes [ __ ] him and then you come and then I it’s just kind of those things of like learning and I and I actually like the way he put that is like you have to be an individual within the team. Yeah. And that’s that’s a hard place to find otherwise because if you if you’re too individual and you’re doing everything on your own, then they’re going to be like, “This guy’s got no team concept whatsoever.” And then on the the other side of it, if if you’re just like a robot trying to play your your team game and not being yourself, then then you get lost. And uh that’s what I did, you know, the first three years in Florida really. Um you get lost in that. So you got to find you’re there for a reason. and they drafted you for a reason or they signed you for a reason. You’re there for a reason. They saw something they liked in you. So, don’t change that. Just find it within the team concept. So, JD, when you you had your like you were with the Sharks, went back down, came back, like when was that moment where you knew like, hey, I’m I’m with the squad. And how did when I retire when I retired in 2020 is when I I thought I made the NHL? Nice. Listen, I I’m not building an app around mental health because I because I had it figured out early in my career. I I mean, I struggled. I never felt comfortable. You know, I tell people the day I signed my five-year deal with Florida. I uh I signed the deal, talked to my parents, was kind of crying with my girlfriend at the time, my wife now, and I literally went into the room and I was like, “What now?” like like they’re gonna like rip it away from me and like have the imposter syndrome. I kind of always felt that when I played. So, you know, a lot of it was like finding moments within it and leaning on teammates and also just like certain moments. So, I I did struggle with it heavily. You know, I think especially my time with San Jose, like it was the first three years and it was up and down for me. I you know, I had some really good years, some really tough ones. I then had a big year like I had like 30 points something 34 points the one year um we got reverse swept and uh that was like a year where it was really good everything was great you know I was playing with we had great team we had all these high hopes high aspirations and then you get reverse swept and I’m in the summer being like uhoh cuz I’m like the change is coming that’s you know it’s coming somewhere and and um I signed that two-year deal and then felt comfortable in the summer for a little bit. Uh, and then as soon as the year started was like was like not. But I would probably say that 34 point year was like the most comfortable, most fun during the year. I we had a great team. Uh, such a good group of guys, too. We’re a close team and and uh it just like it was it’s crazy. You’re comfortable, then you’re not comfortable. But I it’s it’s interesting cuz you know not being a high draft pick. I feel like it it’s not it’s not uncommon and I’m sure there’s a lot of guys that never felt comfortable that played a long time like you’re just kind of if you’re especially not a established guy and you’re kind of finding your way around. You’re just kind of trying to find where you fit at all times. So you’re just never really fully getting comfortable. You’re just kind of find these like moments of comfortability and these moments of like levity. I want I want the people Why don’t you tell us this is a pretty cool story. So I don’t know if Ke and Zub you guys knew this. So JD was stuck on 999 games. Oh yeah. Oh wish 999. 699. Oh $699. Sorry. 699. It should have been if I knew I knew it was a 99. Sorry. He should have been if Todd didn’t scratch me so much. So he was stuck on 6.99 and to mo to most people that means nothing but to a hockey player reaching a milestone of 700. Sorry not a thousand. Um but you were stuck on 699 for couple years right like cuz you had injury and then you were like Yeah. So yeah I had like my last year in Arizona I was on 699 and well I was at 697 and you got scratched at the end of the year. Right. Yeah. It was a duck. [ __ ] up. [ __ ] up. It stemmed back to like the bubble year. We won the first round against Nashville and then we were playing Colorado and me and the coach kind of just had a a misunderstanding that ended up turning into just a crazy [ __ ] storm of like mutual dislike. And when a coach Dan knows this, when a coach doesn’t like you, no, you’re done. You’re [ __ ] So I came back, I had a year left. It was kind of still that weird limbo year postco. We all were kind of figuring it out. There wasn’t really like trades. It was just kind of like you’re playing out. It was my last year my deal. So I get to the season and I there’s times and I it’s hard to explain it, but Dan will know like when you know you’re like not wanted, you come to the rink and you’re like you feel it from like a coaching staff and a and a GM where I walked in at training camp and I like called my my parents, my dad at home and I was like, “Oh fuck.” like this is g this was like day one I was like this is going to be tough because I’m like they weren’t and they won’t tell you anything they’re just sitting there like oh hey what’s up how’s everything doing Jay oh great yeah you’re you’re on like the fourth pair like yeah you’re and I’m like well wait a minute I was playing 20 minutes a night for the past you know five you know five to 10 years in the league why am I on playing with an east coast hockey league player for like day one of training camp that’s weird so go through the season you know we start the year everything’s kind of fine they try you know, they’re [ __ ] around with me. We get to like halfway through and then it’s just like scratch for six games, scratch for eight games and I’m like, “Oh, here we go.” So, you’re trying to get answers. What’s going on? They’re finally like, “Hey, you’re we’re just going to play the young guys and like bury you.” And I’m like, you know, freaking out in my head. Cuz I’m like, “What the [ __ ] going on? Like, this is the end of my career.” So, I really pushed back and I and I was I wasn’t the best of the coaching staff. I was a dick and and said all calls called call them all sorts of names. It’s a two-way street. So, we get to the end of the year and I’m at like last three games in the season I’m at 698 and I kind of get I play a game uh get scratched and I’m at like 698 and we’re playing a backto-back end of the year. We’re playing a home and home against San Jose in Arizona. Then we’re going to play San Jose back to back or sorry, we’re playing both games in San Jose. So, we’re I pulled the coach aside and I said, “Hey.” I said, “Mentally, like I’m in such a horrendous place. I’m just going to be honest with you.” It was the first time I was honest. I was like, “I’m not doing good.” I’m like, “I’m probably going to retire after this season. I’m done.” I was like, “I can’t deal with this mentally. It was just been, it was such a struggle, you know, anxiety, depression. I was like, I just want to get to 700 games. There’s two games left. Please play me for the two games. I know we’ve had our differences. You probably guys want to kill me as much as I want to kill you. just bygones be bygones. Give me the two and that’s it and I’ll be super grateful. And the coach said, “All right, let me talk to the head coach. We’ll see. We’ll figure it out and maybe we can do it.” I didn’t know that this and that. Okay, great. We play the first game, go to San Jose, wake up. It’s no morning skate. We’re going to have, you know, you go for breakfast, get the text for the lineup, and then just see my name off the list for the lineup. No, no, no nothing, anything like that. So I walk out all I there’s I found out later multiple guys went in and were like scratch me and play him because they knew what I was going through. Yeah. And the coach was like no. And then I kind of was like [ __ ] like [ __ ] him. I’m not you know. So really got mad at the world. Ended up not getting that game in San Jose. Then that summer I was like well you know to Dan’s point of like [ __ ] them. I’m going to train my ass off and like I have a renewed kind of vigor to play. But it was that base set of pure hatred. So that’s never that’s never a good thing. So I worked out like overtrained seven days a week like didn’t do anything two weeks before camp, you know, go out to kind of let off some steam with my wife and some friends and blow my back out saying bye to a buddy of mine going to give him a hug and lift him up and my back explodes. Found out I had like some other stuff going on from their previous year that just I never thought of. So blow my back out. I lose feeling in my left leg. can’t walk, you know, having a trouble walking, can’t do anything. I’m like, forget about hockey. I don’t even know if I’m going to get my feeling back. I don’t even know if I’m going to be able to skate again. So, I was like, what do I do now? And and ended up seeking out uh went and had surgery on my own, paid for it myself, went and um because I was still on insurance at that point, so league paid for it, thank God, and then ended up getting a L5 dctomy. They’re like, “Hey, we’re gonna kind of try to get it was rubbing on my nerve.” So, like, “We’re gonna try to get that off your nerve and and hopefully you’re the feeling comes back.” Because I’d been kind of trying to train and get back with those nerve issues. So, I was just rubbing on my nerves. So, they’re like, “Sometimes you do more damage.” Do that. Do that again real quick. We got a meme. We got a meme. We call that the reverse hand. The re the reverse Shangpang. The reverse Shangpang. hit it hit a the iron lotus. Uh so yeah, so I ended up just rehabbing myself and not telling anybody and it it ended up kind of being a blessing in disguise because I really had to kind of look myself in the mirror on the mental health side of things and fix some things in my own life. Ended up uh playing in the Olympics that year, playing in Russia, crazy Russian stories, and then came back and was like, it was April and I was like, I’m going to give it one more go. got a PTO uh to the Edmonton Oilers, you know, called and begged every team and there was enough kind of I think bad [ __ ] around the league about me of just like the way I went out and things like that. So, I was kind of on my knees being like, “Hey, please give me an opportunity to come back. I know it’s been a while.” got back, you know, ended up playing a whole year in Bakersfield, a very humbling year in the AHL to finish. And and had like two concussions, high ankle sprain, and I’m in I’m playing San Jose with the Barracuda against the Barracuda. Yeah. And with like two weeks left in the season, and I’m like I’m like, “These [ __ ] aren’t gonna give me the game.” I’m like, “I’m gonna finish out.” So I’m I’m sitting on the bench and I just look to the left and I look to the left like at this arena cuz you know set of Gucci would come watch sometimes and I’d see like Joe Thornton and so I look at the left and Dan Bole’s like this sitting four seats down. Yeah. Gray beard silver fox. And I’m like I kind of look and I just start laughing and and he just goes like this. He’s like like what are you doing here? I’m like oh. And then he turned it on. And then he started [ __ ] making backhand saucers and he was like old school again. Yeah. So I he gave me a little booze. So I get off the, you know, I finished the game and he texted me and he goes, “What’s going on?” And I was like, you know, I’m just kind of tell him the story cuz I hadn’t really told many people the story. He called Jay Woodcraftoft like that next day and was like, Jay Woodcraft’s head coach Nemonton, like what the [ __ ] are you guys doing? Just like give them the game or like get them up there. And you know, I had the whole time I was there, the GM staff, you know, no, it’s crazy because they were like, “We’re probably going to bring you up at some point.” They didn’t have like one D injury that whole year. Like, not one guy was hurt. Like five, six D, played 82 games. So, it was like I didn’t even have an opportunity. So, it’s not like they were like making sure I wasn’t coming up. Nobody got hurt. So, I’m like, “Are you kidding me?” So, they gave me a call up and it happened to be in San Jose. I mean, was like a whole cathartic experience. I mean, I cried half the game was I couldn’t even [ __ ] I made a terrible turnover cuz I just was was like I was like my parents are there, my you know, my dad, you know, my dad’s there, my niece is there, like all the guys I used to play with, you know, Dan was there, Jumbo was there, so I was like kind of like, holy [ __ ] And then it was like kind of good cuz the turnover like was like, okay, lock in and like play some hockey. And then, you know, the game went great. And I was like, I can still play in the NHL, this and that. and was kind of they called it quits after that really. It was like that was it. I played the the AHL playoffs and said I’ve kind of had enough and that was a good way to kind of go uh shout out to shout out to uh in the Oh yeah. Yeah. But like Woody Woody uh Woody too. Yeah. J Woody and uh Yeah. Cuz I I had met with Woody uh he he had called me said want to come shadow me and I like I had no interest in in coaching. So, ended up coming to a morning skate. Uh, I don’t know. I went in to see a video with uh the one with the voice. Is it Manson? Yeah. Manson. Yeah. Dave Manson. Yeah. You know, I just kind of like went in talked to a couple of the young guys and stuff and I said, “What?” Like, “Fuck, I don’t think it was because of me. I think they always had that plan, but I’m like, “You guys got to call him up.” I’m like, “He’s at 699. You’re playing in San Jose. Call the [ __ ] kid up.” like you know and uh again I don’t know that it was because of me but I think maybe I helped you know and and it was nice it was nice to see you get your 700 game in San Jose in front of the people that like you know knew you and saw you and uh it was a it was a really nice moment and uh the Oilers uh I thought did a I think that was a very nice gesture on their part because it didn’t the game didn’t mean anything to the Oilers. I think they were going to the they were going to the playoffs. It was late in the season. That’s just a that’s just a nice gesture that you can do as an organization and and I think as players like that word gets around the league and then you get to be known as an organization that takes care of their players and and uh just to tie it into the sharks like we want to be that organi. We want to be one of those organizations. Has to be, you know, and you want to be you want to be an organization where the ownership, the coaches, management, trainers take care of their players. And I think for years, the San Jose Sharks did not have that reputation. But you get the right people in the right places, [ __ ] like that, little things like that, it goes a long way. They go Yeah, they they they go a long way. And I mean the Sharks too that night gave me like a a video tribute or a crowd pop. It was great. So it’s like and I went out the way it came in. Dan minus one. Yeah. Minus one and a win. I played Colorado. My first NHL game was minus one. We won 52. I left 6-1. That was minus one with the one. [ __ ] Well, JD, also like you know I know I want to talk a little bit about your app and stuff, but you know you lived it. I I I love Thanks for sharing that entire anecdote because you are a testament of progressive mental health working through it yourself. You took agency. Um I don’t know if you’ve ever come across Dr. Ki. He’s like a clinical psychologist at Stanford and he says this one thing that you can gauge mental health similar to physical health. And the two criteria that he looks for is agency and gratitude. And what you just shared in your story was a lot of agency. Like I had to rehab myself. go get surgery, you know? I went to the drawing board. All I heard in my head was like the Rocky I saw the Rocky montage. I was like, “Let’s [ __ ] go run up the hill.” Yeah. Just like doing some pulling rock. Yeah. I mean, but also gratitude for your teammates, Woodcraftoft, Boilers, like just also grateful to the support system you had and then also be able to, you know, that discussion you had with the coach and the wherewithal to be like, I’m feeling these things and I’m I’m going to communicate them and and sometimes like we keep those things in our head all the time and you’re just like, hey, I’m going to talk to this guy. And was this guy Mike Bob Babcock and you Madano? I don’t know if you guys remember that story, right? I mean, listen, you don’t know how it’s going to be received. But again, like to your point, it’s we’re all feeling these things. No one’s immune to them. It’s something that I’m not sitting here being like, I had it worse than everybody. And like I’m like, no, I had feelings of anxiety and and I didn’t deal with them. I had them at a young age. I never dealt with them. I never put tools in place to kind of help me deal with them. And then people go, “Well, you played at, you know, in the NHL, like you made money.” And I’m like, the stresses and and things like that only get more and more and worse and worse the higher you get. I know there’s guys that are able to deal with it and but there’s some people that can and if you don’t have the tools and even though you have a great upbringing and I had great supportive parents, I just kind of got caught in a loop and it sometimes happens and you just kind of keep repeating the loop and you repeat the cycle and until you kind of sit and you know it’s a lot of like soularching and and staring at yourself in the mirror being like a lot of this is on me and not on my surroundings and and because when you start blaming the surroundings too much. You kind of miss the part that it’s it’s a lot in you and what’s internalized because you kind of externalize what’s what’s in your head. So, you know, for me it was just a lot of that stuff and and you know, my whether my NHL career was was meant to do that for me. It it it did and it’s it’s helped me a lot. And not to say I’m not perfect and and still got a ton of [ __ ] going on in the old dome. Boiler knows that. I mean, I’m a it’s a lifelong I’m a psychopath anyway, but but at least I at least I got a handle on it now. Look real buttoned up today, which is Well, um I wanted to bring up a player that is not Sharks related at all, but is interesting cuz um you guys remember Trevor Zagris, who got traded this season from Anaheim to Philadelphia. Pretty was pretty open after the trade like what went wrong in Anaheim. like you were flying high your first couple years and then had like these pretty sharp decline in your in your point production and that kind of thing. And he said something like, “Oh, we’ll blame it on seasonal depression.” But I think he kind of was saying that he wasn’t doing well mentally and then now he’s in a new system in Philadelphia and it has like a point a game and is killing it out there. So, it’s just it goes to show that like we as fans only see point production. We only see the play on the ice. We don’t see the things that are like behind the scenes that you guys are mentioning that are going on with every single player in the league. Like whether it’s at a super, you know, it’s it’s 100% all they could think about, they’re super anxious or nervous or what have you, or they’re laidback and chill, but there’s some level of anxiety and and depression in everybody that’s that’s playing at that high of a level. So, it’s interesting. Yeah. I think you mentioned something, JD. Having support is huge. That can be from your coach, teammates. Like I said, I I I know the feeling in Florida. So, for the next 12 years, I’m like, “Well, that’s not true.” And in New York, there was a little bit tough. I had some issues with with the coach, but I was like, “You know, I was going to say I was going to say for many years I didn’t feel that, but for the first three or four in Florida, like you show up and you know, you’re just there’s no support for you there. There there there’s no no one going out of their way to say, “Hey, dude, like are you good? Do you need anything? We really like you. We like what you know.” There’s nothing. There was nothing. Like there was there was [ __ ] nothing. Um so I know the feeling. So whether whoever you are, whether you’re a first round pick or an unrestricted free agent, you have to have feel that support from the GM, from the coach, from the coaches first and foremost. Uh your teammates are very important whether it’s one guy, two guys or or a majority of players. You need that supportive uh group. And then you need the opportunity obviously you’re writing the you know I I I played I think I told you guys I played [ __ ] fourth line in Florida. I played only power play in Florida. Like those are not you get anxious you know it’s that those are not easy positions to be put in. So um there’s a lot of anxiety. You just some guys deal with it a little bit better than others. performance is key. But no, it’s a it’s an interesting very it’s interesting story, JD. Obviously, uh people can learn a lot from hearing you speak today and uh happy to see you come out on the other side. You’re a hardworking man now. Every time I turn on the [ __ ] TV, you’re on a different network. I was a hard I was hardworking when I played. I had to work hard. Had to make up for the lack of lack of skill everybody thought I had. But hey, I played fourth line two in San Jose and then only played power play. Oh yeah, those are fun. two seven you get a tap on the shoulder Christmas and then you the worst is what the worst is getting on you’re sitting there on the PP and then you’re going to have to make cuz we had that power play where you had to sprint from behind the net and then at 100 miles an hour and make a parallel pass to Patty Marlo or somebody that’s going 10 times faster through you and then if you missed it or was in the skate I just turn back to the bench and just all I get is so not ready not ready not ready I’m freezing right Yeah. One, like one more little ad. I remember in Florida, too. I was in a hotel for 4 months. Okay. And people are like, “Well, big deal. You’re in a hotel.” It’s tough, man. They’re like They’re like, “Oh, you’re in a hotel. That’s great.” Yeah, it sounds wonderful, but you pack for like you get called up, you pack for like a week, you know? Like everything’s back for me. I was in Lexington, Kentucky. your friends, your clothes, your [ __ ] whatever is all home and you’re like and I’m like I was three months in. I’m like no one [ __ ] asked like no one told me go get a place. No one checked in. It was just kind of like looking back I’m like that’s [ __ ] up. That’s [ __ ] up. We did similar because you you remember San Jose I I spent that whole year so weird about a year and a half and then my last year I spent the whole year in the Bakersfield hotel. That’s true. Marriott. It was disgusting. I got a free trip out of it. Most polluted city in California. Oh my god, it was awful. We heard we heard people having sex after concerts in the rooms next door. It was just a whole the walls were paper thin. One of the young guys that was staying there got like his room robbed. It’s just like like Jesus crazy. Anyways, and to and to the guy listening who’s like you tough, you know. Yes, I get it. It’s privileged freaking like tough situations. I understand. It’s not comparing to, you know, some people having real issues. We’re just talking about But your experience is also your experience situation. It’s subjective and it’s tough. I remember it was tough. I remember going to the coach and I said like what’s the deal? Like what’s going on? Like I have no clothes. And he said go buy clothes. I’m like that’s not what I mean. I’m like [ __ ] like uh like like you need to feel welcomed. You need to feel loved. Like you need Yeah. You feel like you’re an in between not knowing where you’re going to go and hopefully like I said back to Dickinson, you know, let him knowing he’s going to stick around. So he’s he’s moving in with us. He’s moving in. I’m moving to San Jose. Sammy Sammy D, you’re coming in. But no, like to Dan’s point like and and I always try to tell this people to kind of give an olive branches. I’m like to your point Zubar is like we’re all doing this for the first time. Like regardless of where you are in your life, we’re doing this for the first time. We we’re having our own unique experiences. We can’t necessarily relate to somebody that’s not going through a similar experience to us. We try to. It’s what being a human is and being empathetic, but the end of the day, this is our experience. So like for us, me and you know Dan were commiserating listening and people like ah it’s that’s not hard and this and that. Yeah, of course it’s probably not comparatively. But when you think about it through the lens of an athlete, you know, you grow up only knowing sport, your professional career is a blink of an eye. Even if you play 10 to 12 years in the NHL or any sport, you’re retired at 30 with a lot of times a lot of guys don’t have purpose, don’t know what they’re doing because you’ve only focused on this one singular thing. You don’t have a lot of a lot of kids at Ans Point, you don’t have a support system of like when you get there of like what to do, writing checks, getting a place, this and that. and and if you were lucky enough where your parents kind of taught you all that, but no one really knows like what happens because you’re never taught how to be a professional athlete. So, you just kind of got to like figure it out. And obviously there’s more tools now, but especially back then it was like, you know, just go out and play and and have fun and and of course it works out and it’s great and we’re paid handsomely and and um but you were young and but you’re young. Yeah. It’s just like you you don’t quite get de you don’t develop mentally till you retire and you’re like what now? Well, this is where a lot of the time it’s tough. This is a perfect plug for the app. Should we should we do it? I I got I have to get I have to get I have to get off here JD. So, I will say thank you for jumping on. Thank you for saying very kind words. I’m glad that my sarcasm helped you a little bit. Uh but you’re very proud. I’m very proud I’m very proud to hear that makes me feel uh good and I appreciate that and I appreciate you and uh I have to get off but thank you for coming on and our paths will cross again 100% and uh you guys have a nice end to the show that keep it keep it hey the four handicap keep I’m down I’m down to I’m down to a three four but anyhow we’ll play soon. All right, ciao, boys. Have a good one. See you, buddy. Thank you. Uh, yeah, like we’re, you know, we’re still in the development phase. Um, you know, but basically just to give an idea to people is is I’m just trying to give kids tools that, you know, I didn’t necessarily have or didn’t realize were around when I was a kid. And um I’m trying to pair that with content from professional athletes and uh mental health professionals and performance coaches of just giving kids in the youth sports space an outlet. You know, all sports, we’re sport agnostic because I do believe any athlete you talk to, it’s all going to be the same message of of you know, finding joy in the game and it is a game and you can only play it for a short amount of time. So enjoy the process, enjoy the routine of it, work hard, develop routines, and like just understand of like being present and being where your feet are. I think that’s what we forget as uh you know, we’re not taught as kids what presence of mind is. And and especially now with with social media and and phones and and we’re never been more pulled away from the present moment and thinking about what we have, what we don’t have and what we missed and realizing what we actually have in the moment. So, you know, for me, I just wanted to build a platform that teaches kids about journaling and breath work. Uh, conscious breathing, uh, learning breath work really saved me and helped me in a lot of respects. Um, as simp as weird as that sounds. And so, I totally Sorry to cut you off, bud, but like I was asked once at a conference like if you could go back and like have a time machine and tell your younger self one thing and it can’t be like buy more Nvidia stock, you know? It’s like got to be like a tool, right? Not right now. Is it tanking right now? Yeah. Right. So, it’s like it’s got to be like a tool. I would say I discovered meditation and breath work in 2016 after going through like a lot of therapy and and and at that time for the first time I had like the highest level of emotional regulation and control and presence through breath work. And so, um and I came across a book called the mind illuminated. Check it out. Great book on on breath work as well. uh yeah by a neuroscientist and then someone who was got a doctorate in traditional meditation practice uh and it’s it’s so good and and I started doing it and you kind of the great thing about breath work is all you need is your breath and as long as you’re alive you got that and and you can bring it back. Yeah. It’s I I mean breath work is work and that’s the thing I think people forget is that it’s a daily kind of practice and and what we’re trying to teach is really conscious breathing. The fact that you know you breathe around roughly 20 to 25,000 times a day. Uh and we don’t even realize that that’s what’s you know keeping you alive for the most part. So, and you know, 90% of your breaths, you know, you know, I don’t want to say I’ll go roughly 70 to 90% of your breaths are the wrong way. And it’s not from it. It’s simply the fact that you’re breathing in the wrong area and understanding where you’re breathing and understanding your breath is the quickest path to presence of mind, but it’s also the quickest path to regulating your body, your nervous system. You know, you could be in a heightened state and a lot of the time people don’t realize that like these heightened states and these these stressful states is the way you’re breathing. You you stop breathing through your nose. You breathe through your mouth and your shoulders. Your neck gets tight. Your throat gets tight. You’re like, “What’s going on right now? I don’t understand.” People go, “It’s anxiety. It’s this and that.” Yeah. Anxiety stems from that. And um but again it’s it’s a lot of your breathing and just controlling your breathing and understanding your your the rhythm of it and the cadence is enough to really it’s a tool that I think kids should be having. It should be taught in schools and and um we’re developing this to kind of uh give kids the opportunity to just talk about their day. simple, simply breathe, very consciously breathe, and then, you know, they’re rewarded with content with content that essentially is um from athletes just talking about their story. So, you know, we’re hoping to maybe even get a we’re trying to figure out to get a researchbacked study about, you know, because our hypothesis is digesting content from a state of presence of mind will have more of a benefit than if you’re rolling out of bed and looking at your phone. So for me it’s it’s trying to find somebody that would want to kind of do the you know do the research with us and um because I believe like looking at good content that’s like and we’ve already filmed probably 70 to 80 clips um from MLB players uh NHL Olympic snowboarder performance coaches and it’s like Tik Tok videos but it’s for kids and it’s just them saying hey this is what I went through my an injury really dealt with some bad mental health stuff and this is where I led to or or this is how I overcame my adversity and um hoping it resonates with kids and it just you know it it allows them tools to kind of because our whole thing is not I’m not trying to create the next you know Dan Bole Joe Thornton I’m just trying to create good versions of people and and if sport becomes you know parents should realize is that like the more emotionally regulated your kid is, the the better they’re going to do at anything they decide to do, whatever passion they decide to do, whether it’s sport or not sport, but sport is where you learn a lot of sport is is, you know, and I’ve heard a lot of guys talk about it, sport is where you learn what you really want to do and whether you want to do sport or not, but it’s where you because you’re tested mentally, physically, and you really find what you want to do in that in that little realm and cuz it’s just about playing and we’re kids and we’re just sport is just play, right? So when you play, you find out, oh, I like this, I don’t like this. Here’s people I, you know, mesh with, I don’t mesh with and and yeah, that’s that’s where we’re going. So, we’re hoping to launch soon and and um I love it, you know, in at a multitude of different ways, whether it’s, you know, through coaches that want to use this as a platform to kind of enhance or amplify their their vision and voice or just parents that want their kids to have something that they can hold on to on their phone. So, they’re going to be on there anyway. Might as well as have this 60-second uh something to kind of refresh them for the day. Kind of show them what the you know the reality is of high level sport. Um and you not like obviously you want to show the positive aspects but also I think people don’t really under they underestimate that there is some negative aspects to you know playing in the NHL even if you are making millions of dollars or whatever. Like there are plenty of negative aspects of that kind of thing. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows, you know. Uh, it’s not. I mean, look at the look at a lot of the athletes dying, the ones that commit suicide. Uh, it’s there’s, you know, concussions, injuries for life, you know, you’re I’ve had, you know, se seven surgeries um and countless concussions. I it’s it’s stuff that and I’m 37, you know, so I still have hopefully 40 years left in my life, but you know, the effects of that are are they’re not quantifiable because you there’s no studies on them, but it’s just something that you know, you’re you have the you get the money, which is great and it’s amazing and and you’re paid for it and all that stuff, but yeah, there’s there’s underlying stuff that happens and it’s just more whether you play one game in the NHL or 20 years or one game in the MLB or none. You know, the average lifespan of an athlete is 3 to four years and then you got your whole life ahead of you. So, it’s I heard a great thing. I you know, it’s been it’s been great for me to do this because the guys I’ve interviewed just the insight they’ve given me on my own life has just been so impactful. You know, like a guy just saying that like it’s, you know, sport is just a grain of sand and and kind of your hourglass of life and and it we we forget that because when you’re in it, you’re in it and it feels like it’s forever, but it’s a blink of an eye. Yeah. the um so most people that listen to this podcast and and Zubar knows and Shang knows but I’m an ER doctor so my job is is a doctor and I never talk about I never talk about on the podcast just cuz a I don’t I don’t like to give out medical advice over podcast kind of stuff and b it’s like this is the part of my life that I like to do for fun and then that part of my life has been always kind of associated with stress right so this has always been like the dempump of um Yeah. of my life. So, but the parallels between like medical school and like athletes is is insane because you are basically I took one of my last exams that I’ll probably ever have to take in my life like two years ago. But I sat down. I was 32 and I was like I’ve been taking exam like or exams for 20 years and trying to get like A’s for like 20 years and then I’m like holy [ __ ] it’s over. Like it’s like you’re like like it’s like you’re in it so hard that you don’t realize that like that there are other aspects of your life that like have been just kind of consumed by this thing that you do because you think that or that you’re good at it or you want to do it. You have a passion to do it, but there’s a lot more to life than just that. And it’s um this is why I do this podcast cuz stuff like you’re talking about JD is like this the and also because I’m a huge Sharks fan but that’s like the you’re the you’re the interesting one in the group both of you guys. What how the [ __ ] work but I never How the [ __ ] did you let Jang Pang and Dan Bo you into this right? But uh no, it’s it’s true that like I had a you know this summer I had like a lot of uh like mental health struggles, a lot of anxiety, stuff like that and I had to take a step back and be like what am I doing? Like I need to take a break from a lot of things to figure out exactly where I need to go in the future. So it’s and it’s not like and people will say like well you’re a doctor you make a lot of money you you do you know you must have a great life. It’s like, yeah, but like to maintain that level, you still have to like be constantly on it. You still have to be like working at a level that is stressful and I think it uh catches up to you and I didn’t realize it until probably this summer honestly in my life. So yeah, Keegan, what what got you through that stage? Like uh is any tools or support systems? What got you through that? therapy, therapy, medications. Um, and then like finally realizing that like the way that I do things or had done things for 20 years is not healthy. Like the way that I would bottle my anxiety, put everything aside and like, you know, kind of just like keep on going kind of thing. Doesn’t work. Like it’ll you’ll it’ll eventually it’ll catch up with you, hit you in the face and go, “Oh shit.” So it was a bad bad time. So wow. I mean, listen, I I always say breath work, yeah, is a crazy crazy experience to really dive into and and I always you mentioned mind illuminated and and thanks for sharing that too. That’s that’s I mean that’s raw stuff and I I resonate with that just in the fact that it is true when you don’t have those tools, people think it goes away the more successful or the more A’s you get. It just gets worse. You have to deal with it in the now. You have to give your kid, your child at your teenager at 15 the tools to deal with it because, you know, we kind of joke that like why we’re going towards youth sports is like, you know, we’re the adults. We’re kind of the end user. We’ve already developed our bad habits. It’s a lot more difficult to break uh and requires a lot more time and effort. And kids don’t have those bad habits. You know, they haven’t developed them yet. They’re starting to they’re in the process of developing them. You have an opportunity as a society and also parents to find the tools and and whether you do it with them, you sit with your kid and you do breath work and becomes a fun little game. But that like just teaches them about Yeah. that those methods and I mean it’s very simple and it’s free. I love this man. I’m so glad to hear that you’re working on this and someone’s working on this and my nephew actually just this week was uh trying out for a prep school in Southern California um for hockey and he you know he was really nervous at try out said he got diarrhea. I don’t know if I should sorry if he’s listen to this. Hey man, I won’t say but like and my my his dad’s a a doctor and and he was like dude it’s possible to get that from nerves and I was like and he got it the you know the day of and I was just like you know if he had something like this like you know an ability to express himself and and be conscious and be present and you know when you do the breath work and you’re conscious I mean when I used to do it and again I I we can get hippie- dippy here all right like let’s let’s just let’s just deep dive in but It’s it’s it people people that’s where I always get pissed is because I was kind of that way where I was like oh that’s like you know that’s that’s the losers do that like and I’m like no it’s like a like high-end athletes do visualization all the time we we always film the guy that’s sitting on the bench with the hoodie over his head be what’s he doing and then it’s like it doesn’t take long it really you can regulate your nervous system in three to four breaths and that’s the thing people don’t realize in the the studies on it, like you can in in 20 seconds bring yourself back down to neutral. And if at least and at the very least you’ve built that kind of ironclad framework for yourself, you can always, no matter how bad your day is going, bring yourself back for at least a moment and then realize bringing yourself from that ultimate high to that eventual presence, you know, neutral state. And you’re going to just realize how good it feels to feel that way and you’re going to want to search that more and you’re going to start doing that breathing more and and and really looking on how how to find that kind of rel. And it’s it it’s work but it’s simple and it’s really just it’s having the capability to like again it’s like looking at yourself in the mirror and being like that like don’t you know don’t be soft like just do it. Like you got to it’s really like a it’s an ego shedddter. It’s also hard to do breath work sometimes when we’re most stressed because then you’re like I don’t have the time. It’s like 5 minutes, you know, is all you need to start and before bed. Yeah. Before bed. And and and and it’s weird because when you need it most is when you find yourself doing it the least. Uh is what I find with a lot of people and that’s like when you need it the most. The other thing that I think is interesting with breath work is um you know when you really like you said JD is like you get a deep breath in and you’re very conscious and present you essentially on the neurological level shifted from like lizard amydala bl brain into your PFC your prefrontal cortex and if you’re performing a sport you’re now thinking the game you’re making plays you’re not just overreacting and going high off the glass right you’re you’re you’re able to also I think on the performance level if you’re performing anything you’re able to to think more and be more conscious and present. Yeah. Well, it’s, you know, it’s the the flow state they talk about it and I’d always explain it. I never understood it till I got into breath work of like when I was having a really bad game or when you’re really stressed and um you feel like you have tunnel vision. Yeah. You feel like you feel like you can see this like you can see through a keyhole. So imagine playing a hockey game feeling like you can see through a keyhole. And that’s what anxiety is is your to me is your vision just everything narrows. Yeah. And versus when I was in a flow state. Um I would remember I would tell people would say, “Well, what were you feeling?” I was like I felt like I was watching the game in in whatever the 4K. Yeah. Like and I felt like I had an extra like I could had eyes in the back of my head. I felt like it was that big and I was staring at a a you know a a 3D screen and I can see everything coming at me and and that’s when I felt like I was at my most calm and that’s simply you know you’re you just mentioned it like neurologically that is a thing of like being in a heightened state versus being in a more relaxed state in a place of neutrality and and to your uh you said it was your nephew Yeah. that was trying out. Yeah. I I mean, for the longest time in the NHL, I mean, I probably went to the bathroom before the games, like on game day, probably like I’d go like six to seven times. Sure. And I And I wouldn’t understand why I would be com because that was my anxiety is I Yeah. I would be so exhausted once the puck was dropped because I was I was so I I didn’t matter what I did, I couldn’t get through the feeling. And then near the end of my career when I figured it out and I would have a ton of energy, I would just work myself up into such a frenzy that I’d be physically exhausted. Like the I always say the RA if you look at the raceh horses before they run and I sat with a couple guys that sell and and race them and they uh you’ll see the horse sweating and they’ll be like that horse is going to have a bad race because it’s so anxious and it’s so it’s so worked up that your body’s just it’s just in a fight or flight. And once you come down from that fight or flight eventually because that’s what it’s your fight or flight is only it’s to get you out of a sticky situation. It’s what we’re programmed to do. It’s the governor. Once that goes away, you basically want to land the bed and go to sleep cuz you’re just so drained. Yeah. the um that that that flow or that flow state that you mentioned is such an interesting thing cuz for I mean in anybody’s career whatever they do but if you are in a heightened state and you have to perform in in a heightened state there is this like like when in in the ER when you’re you have like a critically ill patient and you’re kind of like making decisions for this patient you have 10 people around you there’s nurses there’s techs there’s other doctors there’s respatory therapists and you’re just kind of there, but you can see everything happening around you and like it’s like you’re watching another movie of the situation and you know what’s going to happen in the movie already. So you have to like step back and predict essentially where that movie is going to be in 30 minutes. And that’s the kind of state that is if you’re anxious and I’ve experienced it myself. If you’re nervous about that event, it’s not going to happen. you’re not going to get to be able to predict that movie because you’re just thinking about what the next part of the movie is like where what the next, you know, piece of information you’re going to get is. You’re not going to be able to step back and understand. And the same thing happens in hockey like you the best players in the world are the best players in the world because they predict the game. They don’t they see the game. It’s yes, they have physical tools, etc., but they see the game before everybody else does. And that’s yeah, that’s the Gretzky phenomenon 100%. It’s they see the game better than everybody else and that’s what makes them the best players in the world. Wow. But this has been way more of a deep discussion than I thought we would have to. This is amazing. Yeah. Also, yeah, we went from Sam Dickinson to Yeah. to seeing the movie. I I love that analogy. I’m going to have to use that. Can you guys say the guy’s name coined the term flow state? I can never say his name. Well, I don’t know. I’ve read the book, too. It’s like Chavezi. What’s his name? I can never [ __ ] say shovel day. Shovel day off. Kevin, but yeah, I mean this is great. I wonder if Shanger is going to get mad because we didn’t get through all the uh probably. Well, the the people may not like it, but we like it and I think that’s all that matters. The people Hey, the important stuff and it’s not talked about enough. The pe the people might like it. They might. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh here, I’ll give you a quick rundown for Shanger. Shanger, this is for you because I do have to leave now because I was staring at the clock. I got to go do Coast to Coast. Yep. Yeah. Uh Timothy Ligrin very underrated. I think he’s a he’s a big piece on this team more than people think. Absolutely. I think he’s stepped up and he’s coming into his role. You know, Mario’s always going to do Mario and you know exactly what you’re going to get from Mario and I think his off ice stuff is um a lot more impactful than people think. I’ve seen him in the room. He’s just a great great teammate. Deharette, great penalty killer, has shored up a lot of things for them on the on the peak and can help. Um, and I think he’s he’s been he’s been good at times and I like him. We talked Muk Mulan and I think Muk Mullan has he’s a hybrid of um what I think they wanted Miracle Mueller to be and also um Vlic. I think he could be a mix of the two. I like it. Um, I don’t know if I don’t know if he’s going to be to the level of of Lassic for that run that that Mark Edward went on, but um, I see a lot of similarities in that and the way he moves and his stick check is very good. Um, very very efficient with it. And then uh, who am I missing? I mean, well, let’s talk about Moo’s first pass for like a second. Also kind I I’m going to tell you this right now for the fans at home. He was icing it. He had no idea what he was doing there into that turn. But he’s done though. That’s I love the kid. But that that was you know when it’s too much of a seed that you’re like like his eyes were between his legs and I think it just and maybe he listen good for him cuz you know as a D man you should realize that when the guy’s coming out of the box and if you’re on that puck to throw it to that position just throw it up the middle um if it’s open because you’re hoping the guy’s there. So maybe he did do that. I mean, he does have four points in five games. So yeah. And I mean, maybe uh maybe I’m the [ __ ] here and he’s the smart one. I also want to point out the games that he’s um played in. It was the Vegas game where he had two points and the Sharks played one of the best games of the year. They lost the game, but they played one of the best games. And then he’s played in the New Jersey game where they won, Colorado where they won, and Seattle where they dominated. They lost the Detroit game, but like that wasn’t the shootout. So, he’s been like just every time he’s on the ice, it feels like he’s he’s rounding out the team in a way that that they really need. Yeah. I I didn’t like him with Orof at all. Um so, I like him with Sammy Sammy D. Yeah. I I like him more with a young kid. He needs a guy, I think, that can make more plays because he’s very simple. Um and I just think he needs a guy that can can skate the puck out of trouble, too. So, so I like it. I like what they’re doing. I like the decor shanger. Go [ __ ] yourself and reach out guys if uh absolutely chat but anything else ever and keep us updated with the app. Uh I’m going to pass it to my I got one defenseman and three goalies as nephews. So they need the app. And uh it tw 12 to 18 year olds. hit me up for um research things because I I have done a fair amount of uh medical education research which is similar to to athlete research. So, I’d love it if you want to get a sciencebacked study. That’d be awesome. Go get Let’s go get Let’s go get some grants. Let’s do it. Yeah. Love it. That’s the real money. Go Sharks. Go Sharks. Thanks, JD. Yeah. Send me uh just send me an email. Both of you, you have it. All right. Thanks, guys. See you. All right. Well, we’ll have to round it out. Great show. Absolutely. I mean, that’s stuff that I feel like needs to be talked about and I love that JD has been sharing his experience and through his own experience wanting to help other people deal with stuff that he dealt with. And I just love that. So great. Yeah. that and and he’s talked he’s been on the show before and he mentioned playing in that that game but I and we had some stuff but it’s just for him to really go out there and lay it all out of what was going on in the background and I think we had him on two years ago so it’s a little bit closer to when he was playing so it’s you know now that he’s a little bit far more removed it’s he’s looking back and seeing the the things that he really needed to to go forward in his career so that’s awesome I’m just didn’t expect it for today episode. But yeah, that was great. And also them and Boille just talking. H that was great. That was so good. So good. I know. I feel like I feel like sometimes as you know that we’re the podcast co-host, me, you Shang and and Dan and stuff, but like we kind of as a fan, I know what like people want to listen to and I can just see people listening to them too talk and the old scar old Sharks fans are just going to be so happy. So, yeah, I mean that that this is something that I told Dan last week actually after the pod and and I, you know, I wanted to say today, but after he was talking about JD was talking about Dan Bole and kind of the way he was a good teammate and and he leaned on him, I told him I was like, “Dude, you’ve just been a a great teammate like on this podcast even like he’s just for the boys all the time. Like he can’t not be for the team.” And I [ __ ] love that about him. So, it’s been great working with them, too. All right, so we have a couple of touching points. You want to just talk a little bit about the game and um you know, Sharks have been playing good hockey. We could just geek out and overreact for a little bit. Yeah, that’s true. Um yeah, I think I mentioned at the beginning of the show, it just it’s been a long time since I have felt not confident in the team, but like that. Are you scared to be confident, Keegan? Because I am. Are you scared to be confident? I’m scared. I’m like a little I’m I’m getting a little bit like, wait, I think they’re going to play well tonight. Like that kind of Wait a minute. Hold on. Step back. Yeah. And go toe to toe and beat the good teams and then like a team that’s still a playoff team like smoke them. Yeah. And the feeling that I was getting was like uh again, this is an overreaction and I’m still scared, cautiously hopeful for the Sharks right now, but they look good. And I was thinking about that scene in like Moneyball. Mhm. When like nothing’s working and then the coach played by Philip Seymour Hoffman’s like gone and they start finally playing the system that was built and I feel like that’s happening and then you’re seeing like Ascarov like do what we know he could do. Yeah. And then it’s like okay when you also got the goalie and then the D like dude I think like what is it the last four games less than two goals per game average? Yeah. Like two goals. Two goals, two goals, one goal like the D clicked and then firing all season. Yeah. So, a um an insane uh run. I mean, like I wanted the Sharks to be 500 by Christmas. Like that was like the I hope that they can do this kind of thing. And they’re they’re getting there. 56 and three right now. But a lot of those were just the first, you know, six games of the season. Just terrible. And if it wasn’t for goalending, like I said, we’d be a 500 team. We have a couple of games that were on goalending, which hopefully like I don’t think it’s going to be completely short up, but as long as we’re trending upward, which all the players, even Dickinson, Ascrov, they are all trending upward. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think I think it’s going to be a good test to play Winnipeg this Friday and kind of see how the Sharks fare against them. They’re a bigger, heavier team than I think we’ve played of of the top teams that we’ve played from New Jersey to Colorado. And they got a lot of depth, great goalending. I think that’s going to be probably the biggest challenge so far. Yeah, elite goalender with good depth, good offensive. Yeah, like just a really is a playoff team for for sure. And that’s big test. Um, I like the just everybody’s kind of fitting in to roles better and and roles is what we talk about on the show all the time, but you know, you don’t have to have Barkley Gro being on the second line. You don’t have to have like Ferraro eating every minute under the sun like like he’s playing a lot of minutes, but it’s different when like you can’t lean on other pairings and you just have to put out Ferraro because he’s the only one who can even like hold tread water, you know? So, I just I like that um things are starting to fit a little bit more of a team because you could have the you could still have Celibbrini like we saw last year he was a rookie but um you know there need to be a team behind him and now it feels like there is and he’s just he’s taken the team. Yeah. It’s he’s dragging them into the fight. It’s It’s insane to watch it unfold before our eyes because frankly I’m not shocked at what Celibbrini is doing. I’m shocked at how early he’s doing it. I think we all knew this was coming. I did not expect this to be in the first quarter of the sophomore season. And he is he’s he’s going to dirty areas. He’s like all over the place like Shang said. he’s more vocal. Um, he’s really he’s really taking the reigns in and running with this right now. And I think what else that I’m seeing which is infectious and we’ve talked about it pretty much most of this podcast is what can happen when you gain a little confidence. Yeah. Right. Like all of a sudden these guys are like like you said, I love what you said is I think people know their role. They’re like and someone’s like I don’t need to be you know Mlin Celerini he can be Minen. Will’s like, I just need to be me. I need to be Will. And to your point, they’ve all sort of found their roles. And you’ve said this about Greer and you know, Greer staff and you know, they like archetype of players is something that you’ve said before. And I think I can see that playing out where you know, he’s got his archetypes and everyone’s got a role and they’re playing systems that are working and the confidence is there. Like they had swagger the last game. They don’t I didn’t see that trepidation of like, oh no, we’re going to lose in the third period. Yeah. Yeah, they’re just like, “No, let’s go play our game.” They killed those penalties. I thought that was a huge win last night. They were just strong in the PK. Mhm. That’s confidence, too. Yep. And the right players in the right place, right? We know what Graph is good at. We know what even, you know, I was really harsh on Goodro this this summer, but we know what he’s good at, and he’s playing the role that he’s good at. He doesn’t have to be more than that. And we know what Reeves is good at. I mean, he’s injured right now, but like playing the role that he’s made for Kiravs, adding some secondary scoring, there’s just a lot of what you wanted guys to do when you signed them, brought them in, whatever. They’re doing that thing like they’re they’re not having to be, you know, allstars or like have to be more than that. They’re just this is what they brought them in for. They’re doing it. Clingberg’s playing on the power play. He’s doing it. Like I like that it’s just been a long time since we’ve had this kind of thing. Absolutely. And you know, one other thing that I just wanted to sort of comment on that I haven’t seen the sharks in a I actually can’t tell you the last time I’ve seen the sharks do it even during their good years where they are initiating physicality. Mhm. Mhm. Sharks have always been known like even during the jumbo era of like you know those great years where it’s like we need guys to protect our guys. We need guys to stand up against other teams. When we have Revo and Orlav in the lineup and then Celibbrini on the forche, you’re initiating physicality. They’re not protecting their guys like that RePe fight. Like they’re like, “Let’s go.” Like, “I’ll blow this guy up and then I’ll protect.” Now Reene is sticking up for his guy. And I think that’s just a whole different psychological approach to the game where it’s like, and I love Orlaw’s game where he’s like hitting people. He’s like, it’s part of the game. He almost just looks like not phased by blowing people up. And he looks very like we haven’t had someone like that since Kyle Burroughs. Burrow’s had some good hits, but Orlof can actually make the passes out and has the poise and and the skating ability, but he looks great out there. I’ve been loving Orlav’s game all season actually and he just keeps getting better as well. Yeah. And Dehar too. I I think there’s been times last season when I started playing poorly at the end of the year there after they got Dearna. Um, so it was tough to really judge him, but I didn’t expect him to be like an every night player, but we’ve had some injuries, so he’s been in most nights and, uh, he plays well like in that role in that sixth six spot physical Dman. Push people out of the net. That’s what he’s good at and he can do it. So you stop people up at the blue line. That’s his role. Um, and he can do it. So I No notes on that one, too. I like him as well. Yeah. Yeah, and like JD said, he’s looked good on the PK, too. His stick work. I mean, just that reach. Yeah, he’s got significant reach and he uses it to to close out lanes and with his stick. So, I I Yeah, he looks great, too. And I think that was the final touch, right? It was like the PK was pretty brutal at the beginning of the season. And yeah, and we had to fix it. And last night, it looked great against a good power play team. Uh yeah, stepped up a lot too. Like just actually being a good um like last year was not his best year either and a lot of improvement out of him this year too. So man, all the sunshine and rainbows over here on the Sharks hockey. Absolutely. Yeah, we got to we got to take it when it comes, you know, soak in that vitamin D. And I know, you know. Yeah. Um the the last topic that we had for our actual topics I think was the the Sharks have to make a decision soon on a D man essentially because people are going to come back from injury and we have I can’t even count how many demen total do we have a lot. I mean it’s a lot I guess. Yeah. And they’re playing well and and I think this is the construction of Mike Greer you know creating competition. Uh yeah. What are your thoughts Keegan? What do you think? who who I honestly don’t know. Like I think Oorio’s been decent. Um but I think he’s still pretty young. Like he’s 22 and he’s shown some the first couple games were a little rough. I think like it was not I was not loving his game there. Um absolutely. But I think he’s come up a little bit. So, and I I know that last time Greer claimed a guy off waiverss, he kept him. Like, he didn’t just re-wave him. It was Emerson, right? He played him in and out of the lineup. He didn’t just rewave him. So, I wouldn’t say that he’s going to rewave him right now. That means we’re still stuck with um trying to figure out who who goes where. And I guess maybe kindly depends on how long Nicolleti is out for more than anything. But I really I don’t think you can make an argument to take anybody out of the lineup besides Iorio. So it probably would have to be him or Letty. But I’d put Letty over him. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that makes sense. Uh I don’t have any more comments than that. I think uh I think that that is what would make the most sense. He’s the least experienced in terms of time with the team. Um so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then I guess the the the final thing is we both agree Misa’s going to stay just to close out that I hope so. That thought I hope so too. Yeah. I I I’m sad that he’s like got injured this week because I think he could have had a a good I think he could have helped, right? They’re playing with 11 guys up front because he’s not out there. Um I think that he could have helped. Um, I’ve seen more positive than negative from him and the he and yes, like he didn’t score in that game where he had eight shots in 10 minutes, but it’s super [ __ ] hard to get eight shots in 10 minutes in the NHL regardless. Like if there’s guys that we’ve been like trying to get his, you know, prospects to play in the NHL, Bordaloo and Guushian and even Cardwell, like even to get shots in the NHL in those limited minutes means that you’re in the right space to get it on net. So keep him there. He’s gonna He’s gonna score goals. It’s just a matter of time. He scored like 70 goals last year or something ridiculous. Yeah. It was insane. It’s gonna happen. Yeah. All right. And then we are going to look at a prospect. Is that right? Yeah. Forgot about that. Right. It’s been a while. Yeah. So I have two to talk about, but one one Sharks prospect, one non Sharks prospect. And I’ll be kind of quick, but these are two guys that I took a look at this week. Um, first guy is the non- one non-charge prospect is Albert Smiths. Albert Smiths, who is a 2026 draft eligible. He has too many S’s in his name. He ends with S and then starts with S and ends with S. Um, it’s my biggest takeaway. Too many S’s. But no, he’s a left-handed Dman. Um, playing in Finland in the Finnish men’s league. And the Finnish men’s league, which for the 2010s was pretty good like at developing and getting guys to come out of that league into the NHL, has kind of taken a little bit of a hit in terms of its reputation. Guys like um Pulya Yarvey and Ko and stuff like that where they dominate that league come and then they don’t really make it too far in the NHL have kind of put the brakes on just how good the league is in terms of prospecting circles. But um it’s still hard to get minutes in that league as a Dman, as a forward. Hard to get significant minutes. So Albert Smith is playing like 20 minutes a night. He’s put up I got to recheck it cuz last I checked it was impressive. He’s at 10 points in 19 games in the Finnish Liga, which again for a 17-year-old defenseman is really, really good. Um, so I wanted to take a look at him because that’s those kind of numbers are like Mir Heiskin numbers um would be like the last guy and um he’s he’s got it like I think this is one of those guys that we um think we didn’t really put Peg as like a top 30 guy and then based on what he’s done so far he’s going to end up like a top 10 guy. 6’3, great skater. Yes, he’s a lefty but likes to activate, likes to push play. physical too. He can hit people. I um some questions about his um just ability to read the ice right now, but again, Finnish league, they play pretty fast. Like it’s just a very chaotic style of play. Okay. Chaotic, fast, um moving, big ice, so it’s a little um it’s a little different than the NHL style. So, it’s hard to really tell what he’s going to be at the NHL, but the tools are there, the skating’s there, physical, great shot as well. So look out for Albert Smiths as a guy that’s going to sneak into the top 10. I think maybe a Sharks, you know, range if they’re in the bottom five this year or bottom 10 even. You know, we’ll see how good we are. But yeah. Yeah. Let’s see. I think I mean even if we hit like I think Sharks are on pace for like 76 points. I mean that still puts us bottom 10, I believe. So like and I heard like when I was looking at the prospects over the summer and you would know better. So like to you Keegan, I heard this is the year to get our our key defenseman. There are so many good looking defensemen. Yeah. And a lot of right-handers. Yep. Yeah. A lot of right-handers. Got Katon Verhoff playing well. Ryan Lynn is good. We got Daxon Rudolph. We have Albert Smith’s. There’s just there’s a lot of Dman that are going to go in the top 10. So good year to have a top 10 pick. I wouldn’t be upset if they were too good to have a top 10 pick, but it would be a good year to to snag another Dman because we need it. Um, for sure. All right. And then who is the Sharks prospect you watch this week? Yeah, focusing on defense um because we are always looking to improve that position. I took a look at Eric Pamp um this week out of Denver. Let’s go. My boy, you like Pamp? So, yeah. So, I’ve been So, my wife and I, we met in Minnesota, which is actually where I am now. And um we I was here for a pond hockey tournament and her first job out of grad school was at Pamiji State. So, when pole camp got drafted by the Sharks and he was at Bamiji State, I was like, “That’s kind of fun. Let me watch him.” And uh so you know we were watching him with like a little more keen of an eye and I was like dude this this kid’s awesome like this kid’s great like and then uh I think he made it as like the last defenseman on the US junior team and then obviously yeah he played a limited minutes but he he was good in those minutes and impactful and then obviously went to DU and my my sister actually went to grad school in DU and so like I was like oh that’s pretty cool like let me follow through there and then and then uh he I think he was prospect of the week last week, but I love his game and I have I have some comments from a friend at DU that actually added some some thoughts, but let’s kick it back to you, but you know me, I I’m a big pole camp guy. Yeah. No, and I think it’s a super interesting story like he’s drafted in the fifth round 2023 um as an over out of the USHL. policy. He had already played a season before. Had put up almost one a game in the US. Went to Biji State. Great year. Um and then made the World Junior team. Played a few games, but very limited ice time and but it looked good. Like you said, he he did not look out of place. They liked he’s just kind of a dog. He’s got he’s got he’s physical. He’s he is a rush focused offensive defenseman. Loves to put the puck on net. Um, I think the the that part of his game is the part that both I really like and also kind of scares me. And here’s why. So, it’s like the the parts of his game that are really good. He’s physical. He’s f he skates really well. He carries the puck well. He likes to get the puck on net. And he’s got a great looking shot on the power play. The problem is is all of those things are generally reserved for your Dan Boilles. They’re reserved for your like PP1 guys. They’re reserved for your Kale Mars. They’re reserved for the best players, the best defenseman you have in your NHL squad, right? So, because they’re the best at it. So, he’s really good at them at the NCAA level. I That’s what scares me though is like to for him to be effective playing that style, he’s going to like a coach would have to believe that he is the best at doing those things. And I know that that doesn’t really make a lot of sense, but that’s what worries me a little bit about it is like there are it’s a it’s another jump, right? NCAA, AHL, and NHL. And you don’t want him to lose that Eric PC campness. But it’s the it’s the Eric Pole campness that like if he’s not doing that, I I do worry that maybe there there wasn’t there isn’t going to be as effective an NHL Dman there if he’s not playing on the power play. And if he’s not just um trying to get hooks on that at all moments. So pluses and minuses um with him him. But I do love his game. Like you mentioned, it’s it’s infectious. It’s like a it’s like watching uh I don’t know. It it’s a little cannonball. Yeah. Little cannibal. Exactly. It’s infectious hockey. Yeah. Fun to watch. So, one of the one of the things I told Shangers when I started watching him more closely is I was like, “This guy’s going to get 400 games in the show.” And the reason I said it was because at that point he hadn’t he he he didn’t have the shot he has now. He still had a good shot, but his shot now is like, whoa. Like, it’s a fast, quick, heavy shot. It’s a great shot. And um and at that point too, you know, I’ve heard him talk about this where, you know, he was training more like I believe he grew up playing football. So he, you know, he’s like a little stocky like running back sort of profile. And apparently he’s been changing the way that um he trains as well um the last couple of years. And I think you can see that on the ice and the way he’s been playing. But I can see him, look, we talked about this a little bit last week when when you weren’t here and we missed you for this discussion, but you know, I have a bit of a hot take where it’s like I would rather have in a deep playoff run. And I think the teams that go deep in playoffs, like final four, conference final teams, they tend to have because there tends to be a bit of a trade-off because you can’t not everyone has like a a Macar or a Quinn Hughes, but like the E Holmes and the um Eblads, like those defensemen do really well and and then you have like, you know, not guys are going to blow up offensively like a Dan Bole, but like a Montour or um a Forsling and and I can see him becoming like a depth guy that can have a good pass, doesn’t need to necessarily play on the power play, but is like, you know, like even a Gudas, like I can see him developing into that type of player. I I get what you’re saying where there’s like the physicality is there, the effort’s there. Mhm. Like obviously Gudas is like a unicorn in terms of physicality, but like yeah, there’s enough that you’re right like it’s and he’s like he’s going to be like a So maybe I’m a little bit too pessimistic on that front where like oh he’s got to be PP1, but there is like he’s going to be a coach’s favorite cuz like the kid he’s going to he’s going to play games because the coach is going to be like yeah go out there and [ __ ] play hockey. So, I think it’s going to take some time in the AHL to really get pro hockey and make be effective offensively. That’s, you know, he’s playing a north south game that like it’s going to need time to really bring something offensively, but you’re right, the the cannonballness cannot be taken away from Eric Ball camp. Yeah, the effort like I see him as like a deeper a deeper guy on the team, but like when he gets his chances he’s going to bury, but the chances may not be as frequent and he I don’t think he’ll be PP1, but boys are going to love him like Yeah. You know, like Yeah. So I I Yeah, I think he’s he’s got a big personality from what I hear too, like like a Ferraro type, you know, just like boys love him. High energy. Um, yeah, I actually talked about him with a with a a friend of mine, Andrew Wong, shout out, who’s actually at DU, and said he did like a a little training camp for like young hockey players, and uh Paul Camp came out and he was like, he’s just the nicest guy like and you know, he works super hard off the ice. Um, super hardworking kid. I mean, yeah. So, I saw him I never saw him as like your number one, number two Dman. Yeah. But I do see him as like I love the Panthers because they don’t have like a number one D man if you will but they got a lot of really good Dmen and and and the Sharks also like you know we may not need like we all want Schaefer but you know if we get a bunch of really like you get Shakir, you get Dickinson and these guys are all like 40 point 30 point even 25 point defenseman that can all play both sides of the puck and just defend really well, make good breakout passes. is score the occasional goal when you need it timely. That’s a great hockey team. Um I think what we learned with Edmonton and Florida in the finals these last couple years is you don’t need the Mar uh to to to win a championship. Um and if the Sharks don’t get that guy, hopefully we get Verhov, but but if we don’t like and we get a bunch of guys like this, I’m happy with the Sharks decor. Yeah, there’s still pieces to be added for sure. And I think they’re going to look pretty aggressively in the trade market to try and get another offensive piece um on the right side. But you’re right, guys like PC Camp and and it’s easier to play PC camp in the NHL than it is to play Canon even just based on like they’re both smaller defenseman, but PC camp’s got a better frame, more physicality. There’s there’s um there’s an obvious offensive creativity with Canyone that that beats Pamps. But um yeah, it’s just it’s a little bit easier to plug and play a guy like that because his game is pretty simple. It’s not like it’s super complicated. Um and um he has the physicality to back it up. It’s just all about that next level. There’s a lot of guys that like that can do this in the NCAA need to go to the HHL. I that seems to be like just cliche uh statements, but that’s you can see it in just a way that certain dudes play that um I think there’ll be an adjustment period, but you never know. I’ve been wrong many many times in prospecting. Um but I like him. I love I don’t want to dismiss his his accomplishments because he’s been he’s just infectious hockey is the best way to put it. And I love players like that. I often like will watch a guy and just go, “Damn, this is just he’s a fun dude to watch and not be fun as in like he’s, you know, dangling between the legs and doing a whole bunch of like crazy [ __ ] on the ice and backhand soft passes.” No, he’s playing physical as hell getting [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. So he’s also he was great at the rookie tourn I mean it’s a rookie tournament so like don’t too much but he was like when you put him with those guys and I love that for his development they’re like it wasn’t even a question he’s like I’m going back to DU like I’m going to go back I’m going to work on my I know he he seems like he has and the Sharks seem to do a really good job of this is where you know the Sharks development team is is keeping tabs on everyone and talking to them throughout the year and telling them what they need to work on uh in all areas and and it seems like that it looks like they have a pretty clear understanding of the player they want him to be and uh and you know obviously DU is a great program as well. So boo and then now gets to be the guy there and you know he had a hat-tick earlier in the year as well cuz Yep. Um so I think yeah low-key dark horse for the Hobie. Yeah, there’s couple dudes that might uh might beat him out. Um, but you know, he’s a he’s he’s up there. I won’t say he’s up there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be he’d have to I think there’s another level that needs to get there, but man, cuz there’s there’s just there’s guys playing in like the Charlie Sorado is like 20 points in like eight games or something stupid. Yeah. But I don’t remember what the actual number is, but there’s guys that um because it’s just it’s probably the best NCAA in a long time. Get so many dudes from the the OHL or the the Dub that just came over. Yes. Every every roster I’m looking at, I’m like, that’s a first round pick. That was a first round pick. That’s a first round pick. Like this. It will be a first round pick. Like it’s it’s just been a Yeah. Yeah, the NCAA is this is a banger year for them for sure. Yeah, it’s true. That’s actually a really good point. Well, and he’s he’s doing it against that competition. So, I mean, they haven’t played the best teams. I will say that, too. I think they have um I think they played B Let me look back. I think his hat-tick was against um yes, his hatrick was against Bentley University. So, I’m not going to like hype that up enough. They did play BC and they won 73. He did have a goal in that game as well. I watched the the Bentley University game and then his last game against Alaska Anchorage, which he had a golden assist in that game. So, I uh I love what he brings and I’m I’m It’s a testament to the Sharks drafting to get him in the fifth round. That was a really good pick. Absolutely. A little off the board. Not even off the board, like he was around that range, but people were like, “Who the hell is Eric Pole Camp?” Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I think it’s also what what we don’t I mean I try to always emphasize it. It’s just not the scouting, it’s the development that goes with it with this organization where not only they pick the guys and you you put I think you said it perfectly is like like archetypes. They kind of know the role on on a team and and then they’re like let’s develop that and let’s teach it. let’s teach these kids professional details that you can’t overlook to play in the NHL and then also while maintaining your character profile and I think they have a clear map for what they want from him and I I see it as that like yeah forling late bloomer going to have to learn it like you said I think there’s going to be adjustments but I think that effort that everything else is there and and it’s it it’ll come out over time and I again I I think he’s getting 400 games in the show I said it year and a half two years ago whatever when he was at Pamiji and I’m like this kid’s got it like he just has it and it will come out over time. I think given the opportunity which I hope they give him. So I would love to end on pole camp. So yeah. No, I think that’s a great that’s a great and just statistically if you look back through the um if you’re interested in like looking at like uh former drafts and how well people make it from like the fourth fifth fourth through seventh rounds, it’s generally overagers. um people who were passed up in a previous draft that are doing very very well. Um or it’s like an undersized forward that is a little bit of a late bloomer that like has got offensive skills but um was picked really late cuz they’re undersized. It like it’s not unanimously owe those guys. Like obviously you can still get your seventh D man from the sixth round and stuff like that, but like those are the guys that you you get uh the 400 games from in the NHL is your overagers and then just that super late offensive bloomer. So I great pickup. Yeah. Yeah, that’s actually really smart. Very Yeah. One of my favorite stats is like the number one largest cohort of players in the NHL, I believe, is first round, second is second round picks, third is undrafted. Yep. Yep. So, like you know, Dan Boils, you’re Dan Boils, but it’s it’s Yeah. The fourth through seventh round is generally you don’t get there’s like a handful of dudes that make it out of the all of the fourth through seventh round. Yep. Um the major, not the majority, but a large amount of them were undrafted the previous year. Um and then just a little bit of a late Boomer. They get it and they keep developing like you said into the those players. So, and goalies. Goalies come from the late rounds a lot, but you know, goalies are voodoo. Nobody knows what happened to them. Yeah. So, anyway, this is a long episode, but I think this was uh very successful. Keegan, good times, buddy. I’ll see you uh see you soon. Bye. [Music]

San Jose Sharks legend Dan Boyle, insider Sheng Peng, prospects guru Keegan McNally, and Sharks Ice rink rat champ Zubair Jeewanjee are joined by another Sharks legend!

Jason Demers, now with NHL Network, talks about the Sharks’ off-season additions on the blueline, Dmitry Orlov, John Klingberg, and Nick Leddy. He also shares his thoughts on prospects Sam Dickinson and Shakir Mukhamadullin.

Demers also shares how Boyle impacted him, when both patrolled the San Jose Sharks’ blueline. He also talks about the importance of sports psychology and mental health.

We also discuss Michael Misa’s next step, Macklin Celebrini’s stunning evolution, and the underrated Alex Wennberg.

Sponsored by Bring Hockey Back. Custom jerseys, hockey gear & tees for every fan. Use promo code: SANJOSEHOCKEYNOW for 15% off.

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🎧 Listen on Apple: San Jose Hockey Now Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast…

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Timestamps

00:00:00 – Intro & Sponsor: Bring Hockey Back
00:03:00 – Michael Misa Debate: Keep or Send Back?
00:08:50 – Comparing Misa to Will Smith & Sam Dickinson
00:10:45 – Keegan’s Case for Keeping Misa
00:13:30 – Zubair on Development & IQ
00:14:00 – Celebrini’s Emergence: “It’s His Room Now”
00:18:00 – Alex Wennberg’s Underrated Two-Way Impact
00:20:30 – Role Players & Emerging Forwards
00:23:40 – Jason Demers & Dan Boyle Join
00:25:00 – Sharks’ Turnaround: 5-2-1 Run Explained
00:27:00 – JD Demers on System Shift
00:28:30 – San Jose Sharks’ Defense Deep Dive
00:31:00 – Fans Roast John Klingberg (and Why They’re Wrong)
00:33:00 – Dan Boyle on Power Play Dynamics
00:39:00 – Why the Aggressive 2-1-2 Style Fits Sharks’ DNA
00:43:00 – Defense Pairings: Leddy, Mukhamadullin, Dickinson, Orlov
00:45:30 – Askarov’s Growth in Net
00:47:30 – Demers & Boyle on Goalie Oversliding
00:57:00 – Locker Room Camaraderie: Sticks, Sharpening & Stories
01:02:00 – Mentorship & Mental Health in the NHL
01:12:00 – JD’s Journey to Game #700
01:26:00 – Dan Boyle’s Perspective: Support Systems Matter
01:34:00 – Life After Hockey & JD’s New Mental Health App
01:43:00 – Breathwork, Flow State & Mind-Body Tools for Athletes
01:49:00 – Final Reflections: Anxiety, Growth & Gratitude
01:55:42 – Rapidfire Blueline Takes: Liljegren, Ferraro PK Value, Mukhamadullin/Vlasic Comps
01:57:02 – “Moose” Breakout Pass Debate, Point Pace, and Quality-of-Opponent Context
01:59:00 – Demers Leaves
02:00:05 – Candid Mental Health Story and Why It Matters
02:01:19 – Are We… Confident? Cautious Optimism After a Strong Run
02:02:26 – Next Big Test: Winnipeg Preview (Size, Depth, Elite Goaltending)
02:04:59 – Confidence Compounds: Swagger, Vocal Leadership, PK Sturdiness
02:07:11 – New Identity: Initiating Physicality vs. Merely Responding
02:09:14 – PK Turnaround and Individual Stick-Detail Shoutouts
02:09:46 – Roster Crunch Coming for San Jose Sharks’ D, What Happens?
02:11:36 – Keep Misa Up? Shot Volume, Finishing Will Follow
02:12:41 – Prospect Watch: Albert Smiths, 17-Year-Old LHD in Liiga
02:15:59 – 2026 Class Vibe: Defense-Heavy, Many Righties, Strong Top-10 Draft
02:16:10 – Sharks Prospect: Eric Pohlkamp (DU) Profile — Rush Offense & Cannon Shot
02:18:25 – Pohlkamp’s Ceiling: PP1 vs. Depth Value
02:23:58 – NCAA Is Stacked: Why That Matters for Evaluation
02:25:22 – Trade Market Hopes for an Offensive RHD
02:27:21 – Late Bloomers & Overagers: NHL’s Hidden Goldmine
02:30:55 – Wrap and Sign-Off: Long Episode, Worth It