Ken Rosenthal Reacts to the Rockies Hiring “Moneyball” Exec Paul DePodesta

Ken Rosenthal Reacts to the Rockies Hiring “Moneyball” Exec Paul DePodesta

We were talking about this a little in the first segment. Gratsy put his phone on do not disturb because he’s worried someone’s going to hire him out of this show to manage a team because he was a catcher. Um, how troubling do you think is this trend? Obviously Deep Podesta not being in baseball in 10 years, but beyond that, some of the managerial hires, what are you kind of hearing around the industry about this? I don’t know if troubling is the right word. I just find it somewhat weird. Okay. And I wrote the article and I made it clear in the article that listen all of these new hires, the ones that are a little bit outside the box or maybe a lot outside the box. All of them have a chance to succeed and maybe I’m totally wrong and even questioning it. Maybe Tony Vitella will be great. Maybe Blake will be great. I grant all that. And in fact, I mentioned in the article as well that when Aaron Boon was hired in 2017, I was the one guy who questioned that saying, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, no coaching experience, no managing experience.” And obviously he’s proven to be a successful manager. But to me there is a certain path that has followed to these jobs and has been for a long time. It’s you’re a coach for a long time, you’re a minor league manager, you work your way up. And it’s not to say that new people from other walks of the industry can’t be included in this club. But you’re also ignoring a lot of people who are doing it the right way or the common path. And that is troubling to me. It is troubling that people are getting ignored that maybe it should deserve a chance. And that is kind of why I wrote it because I am hearing from people in the industry, not all people obviously, but some, that this is bothering them, that this is to them kind of offensive quite frankly. I don’t know that I would go that far, but it certainly raises the question, why take these risks with unproven managers? some well one at least from completely outside of professional baseball when you have qualified candidates all over the place. Now teams will tell you well the thin is the pool is thin it’s not as good as you think. I don’t know. It seems to me you got a number of people out there who are deserving of a chance and would like a chance. Is this kind of a safe pick by the Rockies? And I have to explain the fact that it’s a safe pick because it’s somebody that’s not been in baseball in the sense that they’re going, “Hey, this is how we’ve done it. This is how we’ve had success.” And the Rockies have kind of bucked that for a long time that, well, this is how everyone else does baseball, but it’s so terrible here in Colorado. So, does it feel like as much outside the box as it is, it’s a safe pick for them? It’s not as if Paul Deep Podesta has never worked for a baseball team. He’s worked for quite a few baseball teams and been successful at least with the Mets for sure and the A’s going way back. So, he is a really smart guy, one of the smartest people who will ever work in this sport, I would think. My concern there is it’s been 10 years since he’s been in the game. And in those 10 years, a lot has changed. Now, as was pointed out to me this morning by someone in the game, hey, he’s going to the Rockies. He’s got nowhere to go but up. He’s going to make that place better just by becoming their president of baseball operations. I buy it. It’s still an unusual pick to say the least. And it’s also a pick that came about after the Rockies two finalists that Brit and I reported about. Cleveland assistant GM Matt Foreman and Diamondback’s assistant GM Am Sard. They for whatever reason were not in the mix in the end. And it would seem to me that that was the direction they were going. But they couldn’t get it done with either one of those guys. And then Paul De Podesta, who they had been talking to as well. He became a more prominent player in their mix. Hey Ken, I um I played high school basketball a little over 10 years ago, maybe like 15 years ago. You think NBA teams would hire me? I mean, no, but for real, for real, for real. Um Albert Poster, I I was average. I was average, but I mean, I’m just trying to make the parallel. I mean, I did something in the past. doesn’t mean I shouldn’t necessarily do it in the future, but Albert Puhos, you know, obviously did a little bit of work with MLB Network and did the media thing. He went out of his way to go coach in the Dominican. Um, was planning on coaching the WBC team? Tried to take the more kind of traditional route in order to get a managerial job. Do you feel like that’s no longer the route that someone should take if they’re trying to be a manager? Is there a shortcut? Is there a better path forward? I don’t know. Guys like Albert are getting hired. Craig Salmon is a former player who is not that far removed from his playing days. Now granted, he was a special assistant. Kurt Suzuki, the same thing, also a special assistant. Albert has not been a special assistant, but Albert Pertainly is someone who wants to manage. And it’s telling to me that there were nine or were nine openings, still one left with Rockies, and he’s not getting any of them. Now, maybe it’s because teams fear his strong personality, and we’ve talked about this a lot. teams prefer collaboration with their managers and I get it. That’s the way the game has gone. But Albert Ples is certainly an interesting guy to hire. Now, he’d also be a tough guy to fire and that’s part of the problem, I would think. And with great players, you don’t always get a great manager. I covered a few like that. But at the same time, if we’re being so bold here, if we’re hiring all these outside the box guys, why not Albert Poles? Does he rerack it? Does he rerack it next off seasonason when there’s maybe only half the managerial openings? I mean, I don’t know that we’ll see an off seasonason with so many opportunities for him. Does he rerack it or does he say, “No, I have to do it differently. I have to do it Ryan Samberg style where he managed at low A, high A, double A, AAA, and then he got his opportunity. If I’m Albert, I would say no to that. And the reason is because so many others are getting hired who have not done that who are not Albert Puholes. Now he’s going to manage the Dominican Republic and the World Baseball Classic. That’s another opportunity for him to gain experience. And I would expect that this desire of his to manage is not going to go away. I would think Albert Pools wants to do something. He’s going to try to do something. The question is whether the game will welcome him in that role. I don’t know the answer to that. Yeah, I know everything in Colorado is fairly new. Have you heard any sort of rumors of who might take that managerial job? No, not yet. And Paul D Podesta, as I said and we know, has been out of the game for a decade. So, some of the managers he might have hired back 10 years ago when when he was with the Mets in his last job in a secondary role, not the league guy, those guys might not be in the game anymore. They might have moved on to other things and greater things. I don’t know. So, I’m not exactly sure how or who his people might be regarding managerial candidates, but it’s going to be interesting to see who he hires because obviously he has connections in the game. He was with the Mets, the Padres’s, the A’s going way back, Cleveland. He has guys, but whether they’re available or whether he would still want them or whether they’re out of the game entirely, I don’t know exactly where all that stands. Yeah, I feel like if there’s one thing if there’s one thing that we know, Ken, is that you can’t guess because it feels like everything that has been just crazy has happened this cycle. So, who knows what they do in Colorado. It’s going to be tough to top the chaos of Paul Deodesta, but maybe they will. Who knows? Maybe they hire Albert Pulos. Wouldn’t surprise anyone based on what’s gone on here the last couple years. Go for it. That point. I’m talking to somebody this morning who knows AJ Prowler and is I don’t know if I’d call him a confident of Prellers, but he knows Peller and talks to him and he said, “I never heard Craig Stabin’s name out of his mouth.” So, who knows how that came about. And you’re right, Brit, it’s been one surprise after another. And again, I don’t want to sound like a fddy duty here, if that’s the right term, a uh a grouch. But again, these are risks that these are teams are taking. And you can say, well, it’s always a risk no matter who you hire. Well, yes, but the level of risk is greater with some of these hires than it would be with some others. Yeah. It certainly seems like like David Ross, Brandon Hyde, Vance Wilson, like there Ryan Flity, there are candidates that have managed and not managed who are coaching and have experience and have a little um I don’t know, a little experience being in the dugout, not as a player. I think it’s a everyone is looking for the next Steven Vote. People forget that Vote did spend a year in the bullpen, the bullpen coach of Seattle. And also, just because Steven Vote did it and was uniquely qualified to do it, doesn’t mean that there’s 20 or 30 oven votes out there. This is where I think the industry gets a little too obsessed with copycat and with the success of a guy like Steven Vote kind of meaning that you don’t need that experience when he could just be the anomaly here, you know, and not the necessarily the rule. So, uh, I want to point that out. I want to switch gears, though, Ken, because there’s a lot of other stuff going on. Qualifying offers, there were some surprises there. Uh Brandon Woodruff with the Brewers, a small market team that you’ve written about often needing to spend more money, decides that they are going to offer Brandon Woodruff a qualifying offer. How surprised are you by that? And were there other ones that made you go, “Huh, didn’t see that coming?” That one was the most surprising. And as you said, Brit, the Brewers are not a team that generally spends at market value or above. And I would say 22 million for Brandon Woodruff is probably above market value considering his health history when he’s healthy. Of course, he’s a really good pitcher and definitely worth that over one year. But because of the history, you just don’t know. And with the Brewers, what I imagine they’re doing, actually what I know they’re doing is protecting themselves in the hope that some other team will sign him and they will get a draft pick. The problem with that is Brandon Woodruff now has a qualifying offer attached. It makes it difficult for him or more difficult than it would have been without a qualifying offer. And teams will say, “Well, I’m not giving Brandon Woodruff a multi-year deal and giving up a draft pick when he has this injury history.” So ultimately, maybe Woodruff takes it and that would be a surprise. Now, you can always trade a guy after he signs with the qualifying offer, but I don’t know that that’s the Brewers intent. It just seems to me they’re covering their bases here. And the worstc case scenario, they get Woodruff back. Maybe it’s not a worst case scenario. I shouldn’t call it that, but the one option is they get Woodruff back. They are probably at least going to entertain offers for Freddy Peralta. So, if Woodruff is back in the fold, at least you have, if healthy, a guy who can carry that top of the rotation spot. It’s not unprecedented. Yasmani Grandal came essentially on the qualifying offer. They paid him, I think at the time it was like 17.9 million for the one-year deal. Kind of approve it deal. And I think I think Big Woo kind of is on the same page where he has to do the one-year deal. So, I like the move by the by the Brewers. Before we get to any other qualifying offers, we brought this up before. GMs always say, “Hey, what is you know, one-year deals? no such thing as a bad one-year deal. Is there a limit to that? Is there a limit for the Brewers different than for the Dodgers? Because when you say one-year deals, that qualifying offer essentially is collusion by the league saying, “Hey, this is where we’re willing to go one-year deals.” Nobody go higher than this because if you don’t sign a kind of qualifying offer, other teams go to it and they say, “Okay, well, we’ll give you what you would have gotten had you stayed on that qualifying offer.” So, is there a limit? Have you heard from GMs, is there a limit to that bad one-year deal? Well, I’m sure there is, and I’m sure it does vary from team to team. The Dodgers have the financial capability to absorb 22 million much easier than the Brewers do. There’s not much question about that. So, what’s surprising about this to me is that a $22 million salary for the Brewers given their payroll, it’s going to take up a certain percentage that is pretty significant. And that is where I was a little surprised. Now, if he rejects it, all good. They get the draft pick, assuming he signs for more than 50 million, then they get a pick after the first round before competitive balance round A. Or maybe it’s after competitive balance round A. if that’s in the 29 to 32 range usually and then if it’s not 50 million that he gets in free agency the pick is after competitive balance round B that’s more in the 75 range not as great a pick so it’s a little bit of a risk in my view from the Brewers perspective because I believe he might take it and that’s a high percentage of their payroll again but as I said maybe it’s in their minds protection for them if they do trade Peralta and there’s nothing wrong with having Brandon Woodruff on your team, especially if he’s healthy, he is really good. And we saw that last year with diminished velocity, he was still really good. All right. Then the one person that did not get a qualifying offer that feels like really blit my radar. I don’t know about other people. Trent Gisham had a 35 war this season, played a very good center field, and hit some dingers for the Yankees who have no issue with money. anything from that? Like, are we able to glean anything from the fact that they did not give him or put a qualifying offer on his name? If I’m not mistaken, he did get a qualifying offer and Frank did. Yes. So, right, Brit, my mind here. Yeah, he got one. I think he did. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So, yes. Yes. Yeah, he did. It gives the Yankees protection center field next year even though his defensive metrics have declined and it’s a thin group of center fielders and they’ve already got Bellinger as a free agent. So with Gisham at least you lock in Bellinger qualifying offer in the past is not eligible for another one. So this two is going to be really interesting Eric because will Gisham with the qualifying offer attached do as well as maybe he might envision? I don’t know. The metrics have declined. the speed has declined and he’s not the same in center as he was maybe two years ago, but he’s coming off a spectacular offensive year. He is a guy who kind of rebuilt his career after some struggles, which I think is something that should be admired and a testament to his grit and competitiveness. So, it’s going to be interesting to see where this goes. Does he get a big offer from some team regardless of the qualifying offer or do teams look at him and say, “Not on a multi-year. we’re not that interested. And in his mind, does he say, “I’d rather go to the Yankees for 22 than test the market, which will be uncertain because of the qualifying offer being attached.” Speaking of uncertainty in the market, do you anticipate free agent being any different this year with potent the uh unknown of, you know, a season after next? Kevin, it’s a great question. It’s one a lot of people are asking and I would think in certain cases perhaps it will have an effect but in general I don’t see teams operating differently and nor do I think they should. The fact that there is the potential for a lockout and one that eats into the 2027 season. Yes, there is that possibility. We all know that. Is it likely? I don’t know that it’s likely. And let’s say, I’m hoping against hope perhaps, but let’s say we don’t miss any games. And let’s say the season in 2027 goes off as planned. You’re going to want players. The players that are available now, you’re going to want them in 2027, the good ones. So, if I’m a team, I would not operate with fear of that negative. I would operate as if things were going to be status quo. And if they are not, okay, but you still have that player under control for whatever becomes of the 2027 season and beyond, assuming he is on a long-term

FT senior insider Ken Rosenthal joins Kevin Pillar, Erik Kratz, and Britt Ghiroli to react to the Colorado Rockies hiring Paul DePodesta — the analytics mastermind depicted in Moneyball — as their new head of baseball operations. Ken breaks down why some around MLB are frustrated with teams hiring “outside the box” leaders, how this trend could impact former stars like Albert Pujols who want to manage, and why the Brewers qualifying offer to Brandon Woodruff surprised many. The crew also dives into what the Yankees and other clubs might do in free agency.

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