LIVE Garden Report: Celtics Collapse Late vs Magic | Postgame Show on CLNS Media
Always has to be a shot at some point. I know they’re never clean. They have to run. That’s the only shot they have. They do it for 82 games. We’re about to find out. He already has shown what he’s capable of. Did surprise me. I thought we were going to hang in there. This makes me think that we do need to be humbled. I actually think you’re the only one who deserved that beating. What’s going on, guys? What’s up? What’s up? What’s up? Oh, I’m looking at a D. You’re back just in time for a loss, John. It’s not why I’m here. Wow. Bobby with the early shots. We’re not even The intro isn’t even dead yet. Damn. Bobby still shot. Damn, Bobby. Bobby, I had I had committed to this game. I I bailed out of the last one before I knew it was a a win. And I committed to this game before I knew it was a loss there. I have receipts. It’s on the schedule. Okay. I’m load managing. All right. It’s a long It’s going to be a long season, guys. It’s going to be a long season. Oh, I get through 10 games. Who you tell? So, again, we’ll we’ll we’ll get into this one. Noah’s down in Orlando. We’ll try to get uh her on a little bit later. Uh we’ll get we’ll hear from the guys. Uh we’ll get some reaction. It’s an interesting game because I actually thought there’s a bunch of good things that went on today. Uh but they ended up losing. Uh and we’ll kind of break down why before we get into it. Quick shout out to our sponsors. Starting off with, of course, Prize Picks, the number one daily fantasy sports app in all of North America. Pick more, pick less. It’s that easy. Download that app today. Get in on the action. Use code cls. Get 50 in your lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. And our pals over at Omaha Stakes. Yeah, it’s a Celtics show, but we’re doing the code Patriots right now cuz that’s where the money’s at. Guys, go to omahastak.com. You want to order some nice juicy steaks, a holiday gift box, ship it off to your friends, your your your dad, whomever, uh go to omahastak.com. 50% off sitewide sale right now in addition to $35 off when you use the code Patriots at checkout. Uh let’s get into this game, guys. And again, it was close. bad start again kind of like against the Wizards. You can really distill it down uh you know Bobby and Sherrod to just two or three crushing mistakes really late in the game. They’re in this game and again in experience 95 with six minutes left turnover was a killer. The May not turnover is brutal and so unnecessary. You know what I felt like watching that? That’s like when I watch my seven-year-old play soccer and and all the coaches yell is not to the middle, not to the middle. They’re just like because half the goals are scored because the kids literally just pass the ball back to the middle and the other team scores a goal. And I was like, why of all the places in the world to throw that ball would you do that? Devastating mistake. Kada misses a bunny. You got another bad foul there. You go from a one-point lead to down eight like that and that was the ball game. And that’s what it is. Just bad execution by by, you know, by by those guys late. Yeah. And it’s a reminder that, you know, again, they’re going to be some growing pains that this team is going to go through and they’re going to be they’re going to be moments where you’re going to be reminded why these guys didn’t play that much before and why even though they’ve done some positive things so far, they still are going to have moments that are going to remind you why these guys haven’t been more impactful up to to now. It might not I I you know I I I chalk it up as a learning moment for him that he’s not going to make that same mistake again. But damn uh it felt like this I mean that’s just one of those early basketball fundamental you know when you’re six seven eight years old that you’re told don’t do that. That’s you would be better off throwing the ball in the front court and just throwing it away then because at least your defense gets a chance to get back and potentially limit them from getting a layup. But when you throw the ball right towards the basket like that, nothing rarely ever happens good when you do that. So, um, yeah, then Kada misses the point blank layup the other way, gets the take foul. It It’s two guys who put their season back on the rails, you know, that combination for them, the starting lineup, uh, with those two in there plus 35. um that combination since they started, you know, starting together here through six games and big mistakes by both of them cost you late in this one. Then the take foul right after Joe’s head like dropped to the floor. So, it’s tough. You were in a great position to win this game. I feel like I’ve said that like three or four times now this season. Yeah. And Bobby, the guys who made the crushing mistakes, without them, you’re not here. And again, I don’t want to be I don’t want to be a plus I don’t want to be a plus minus merchant, but like, you know, at a point in the game when those guys were in there in that fourth quarter when it was still close, all of your top plus minus guys were the energy guys. It was Kada at plus 16, it was uh it was Jordan Walsh, it was Ugo Gonzalez, and it was May not. And then May not just had a disastrous disastrous uh fourth quarter stint there uh where everything seemed to go wrong. But and if you remember, he almost cost him in that Philly game on Halloween with the two missed free throws and a couple crazy shots. So you get into these tight situations against good teams and that’s where those guys’ impact does seem to diminish a little bit. Uh they have been a pretty rough team in these clutch time situations so far. You think back to opening night, they barely survived that game in Philly. I just mentioned Utah disaster laid with Kada right in the middle of that one on the Nerkish putback. So, this is the position these guys are in, right? They’re asking a ton from them. They’re asking for a lot of minutes and max energy. We saw after last game, John Kada like out of breath in the postgame interview there despite having the best game of his career. They’re putting a lot on these guys plate and you know, this is your opportunity, right? Can you make the most of it? Can you be consistent? Can you earn your next contract with this opportunity if you’re them? They’ve done a ton already. Uh, but when you just keep asking for more and more and more from those guys, you’re bound to have situations like this. And that is the story of this team. But you know, Bobby, I don’t I’m not sure. I don’t think they’re asking for more. I think just asking for consistency. And I think that’s the challenge that that these guys have is can you play at the levels that helps this team win at with some type of consistency. And I think that’s the part about both PA and Minot that we again they haven’t they haven’t had enough opportunities to showcase that but in the sample size that we’ve had it’s it’s not there. It’s not there at least not yet uh where they can give you what you need to be successful consider is the role they’re in. I mean they’re obviously as John we talked about this plenty of times they’re playing up a role and this is what happens eventually. I Exactly. It’s like I don’t want to get like I don’t want to do this every game where we have to keep explaining that portion of it. That’s what it is. You have players who are not players who are who have a track record of consistently playing at a high level. You’re going to get mixed results and you’re going to get not just mixed results game by game. You’re going to get them stint by stint, you know, and you’re going to have a great May not quarter and then an ass, you know, a really bad one. You’re going to get it from Kada still, who I love and who I think they’re better with, um, you know, on the floor and the numbers certainly bear out, uh, there, but then you’re going to get some of those mistakes that kind of get, you know, are frustrating and critical moments. you know, you’re gonna and sometimes you’re gonna you’re gonna go to that bench and you’re gonna look for a a spark and you’re gonna get zero out of some of these guys like Garza tonight or Simons the first, you know, the first, you know, outside of the fourth quarter. Uh where it’s just like, oh wow, nothing. I got nothing out of these guys. And that puts the onus on your starters and your stars to be good all the time. And if they’re not, then you’ve got a problem. And so, and you know what numbers big from tonight, John? This is only the second time in Kada’s career that he’s had 30 minutes. And and and and there’s a reason why he’s playing that. And again, a lot of people made fun of the uh the halftime interview last game. Literally post game. Sorry. When he looks like he just needs oxygen after 24 minutes or whatever that he played. Yeah. You know, game and we asked it on the show last night last game, John. We were like, why why can’t he get to 30 minutes? Cuz he had been their best net rating player. He had been there. He was like, “Why are you still talking to me?” Yeah. So, the natural question, can you do that in 30 35 minute stints? Cuz obviously, you don’t want to play as much Gars if you don’t have to. You don’t want to play. And the problem, Bobby, the problem, Bobby, is it’s not just that. You either get tired Kada, uh, who’s going to be sloppier, or you or you get someone else. and the someone else, the drop is tremendous uh from what he gives you to the next thing. And again, credit to him for being as good and as valuable as he’s been during his minutes on the floor, but also it’s just kind of points, you know, draws attention to what we knew going into the season was the biggest glaring roster uh hole, which was their bigs. Thankfully, Kada is is a plus. You know, you Kada was a question mark coming in. Without him playing the way he’s playing, they’re dead right now. So, he’s been solid, but you can’t get 35 minutes out of him. Yeah. And May not’s been great for the energy and he’s kind of, you know, and he and he and he’s made that front court serviceable where they’re not getting killed on the glass every single night since they’ve made since they’ve made that switch. But those guys have their limitations. There’s only so much they can do. in tight games, you know, uh, you know, you’re playing Kada to extended minutes or you want, you know, you’re looking for for offense from more places than the than than the regular guys and, you know, you’re going to struggle to get it. I I believe second half for Mina in this one. Two points, three rebounds. Yeah. Minus two for the game in the end. So, you got diminishing returns from those two guys. You don’t have other options there. Simons gave you the lift off the bench in the second half, but you didn’t have the depth to complete this game. And the Magic are pretty deep team. They have a good second unit that really hurt you in this one between Black Dilva, some other guys there. Uh you hung in there, which is what you’ve done all season, but you’re four and six now and it’s opening night missing the two game-winning shots potentially there. It’s Detroit giving up offensive rebounds on every possession down the stretch and blowing that game. Utah the last second put back. And now tonight you could be what are we talking about? Eight and two, but you’re four and six. So that’s uh that’s what we talked about, John. Like they have to play perfect. There’s no room for error. You take your foot off the gas for one stretch and the game’s going the other way. And that’s what happened tonight. It’s happened a couple times this season. And it’s so tough when you’re getting what you’ve gotten from Brown. It’s so tough when you’ve been fully healthy to this point. The schedule’s been tough, but it’s going to continue to be tough this week with another Magic game, Philly, Memphis, and you know, three games in four days. Right now, what’s 40% over a full season? 33. Yeah, something like that. 34. So, there you go. It’s too It’s too early to count It’s too early to count victories here, but it’s it’s a little snapshot. It’s just a little snapshot of like, all right, what could this season look like over a 10 game stretch? Look, that’s the thing, right? It’s there’s going to be a handful of teams that are going to be difficult to beat, you know, unless they the injuries or or uh you know, certainly a lot of teams out west. Uh but again, thankfully, you don’t have to play those guys a lot of times, but there’s just some games on your schedule that are going to be an L unless there’s tremendous shooting variance, the other team doesn’t show up, second night of a backto-back, injuries, whatever it is, blah blah blah blah blah. But I mean, those are going to be harder. Then you’re looking at all of those jump balls and it’s like you’re trying to figure out which class you’re in right now. Are you in Orlando’s class? Are you are you uh a tier or a half tier below them before the season? This was a high expectation team. They they’ve been this this is a team you would expect to lose to based on the talent, you know, for whatever it’s worth. But they’re just not playing well. Uh offensively, they’ve been a mess. The type of system that they’re trying to play, it just hasn’t really worked for them. So nothing’s really going. But just you look at them on paper that you know your strength right now has been your starting lineup and those guys their starting lineup is better than yours. I mean across the board there’s just got more talent on that team. Uh and it just hasn’t gelled yet for them. But it’s a good team. Like this is a good team and it’s a you know it’s a you know it’s a you know team that they’ve struggled with when fully healthy in the past. So they they got a lot they got a lot of horses here. You add Bane to the mix here it adds another dynamic to this team as well. You got a lot of guys who can fill it up. So, I there’s no shame in losing these games. It’s just you’re trying to figure out where you are relative to everybody else in the East. So much of the Celtics success was predicated on, well, the East is pretty bad, so they should have enough talent to hang on there. Well, wait a second. You know, there’s some teams that you thought were bad that aren’t as bad. You know, I don’t know if I’m fully buying into Chicago. Yeah, I I’ve said it to, you know, a couple times now on the podcast. Like Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Philly have been better than you would have expected. Atlanta, Orlando, and Indie have been probably worse than you would have expected. So, there’s more teams exceeding expectations than falling below themselves. I don’t know if exceeding I I do believe that for some reason. Again, I think it’s just that the the logo and the the the the the jersey that just make people believe the Celtics will naturally be better. I think they’re in that mix, but I think they’re more in the Raptors Heat, you know, Hawks class, you know, than they are some of those other teams, you know, and I the Pistons is not surprising. I thought the Pistons, the Cavs, the Knicks, uh you know, the Bucks, the Sixers, even if if healthy and and Orlando would all would have all been certainly better, and the Celtics would kind of be flight fighting to claw behind them. And there’s a couple teams that stepped up. It’s super early though. I mean, Chicago could go freaking five for their next You could go five. I don’t know if Giddy’s going to be in the MVP race over the over their next 20. So, yeah, I’m not really worried about that. But they’re in that they’re in that kind of mash of teams, right? Yeah. And you’ve been healthy. That’s what kills me right now, Sherrod. Like, yeah. Imagine an injury on top of all the issues they’ve had to begin this year. Like, that’s where it gets scary for them. Four and six at full health is tough. Yeah. But but they’re four and six at full health, but four and six because in part because there’s so many new pieces. Uh and and that you know I you know you don’t want to beat May up too much or Kada because again they’ve I thought they played for the most part they played a pretty good game but they made some mental blunders that prove costly. Uh but help is everything. I mean because without the help I mean they wouldn’t even have a chance to compete. I mean, we’re probably looking at a two and eight team if if they had like one uh semi- major injury to one of their core guys. Um the big thing for me that as as I’m watching this team play more and more is their main guys have to play better. I mean, if they can get a better playing Derek White, it looks like Pritchard is kind of getting into a nice rhythm, a nice groove. Uh Jaylen has been out of out of this world. Uh and those three guys need to be playing at a really high level because the margin of mediocrity is so slim for them. They can’t play average basketball and beat teams because before average basketball for them was beating you by seven and and really good is beating you by 27 which they did often. This team doesn’t have that type of of talent and flexibility. They have to play well particularly their core guys night in night out just to have a shot at competing. Yeah. And I’d throw Simons in that. Right. And we should probably talk about him, John, after the two-minute first half here, which I thought was I want to talk about Simons. I want to talk about Simons. I want to talk about Jaylen. Um I want to talk about Derek White. I I think I think I’m going to say some something that’s going to piss some people off, but that’s okay. U but first off, let’s hear from Joe Mazula and then stick around and I’m going to piss you off. For a lot of the night, particularly in the fourth kind of some some tough plays like the passer to the basket, the take foul leads to four points on possession. What did you see kind of execution during that stretch when things kind of unravel a little bit? Yeah, I think uh like you said, I thought we uh it was a great it was a good game and you know the effort and physicality was there. Uh you know, we just have to be able to execute on both ends of the floor uh throughout a close game. You know, again, we always talk about win or lose. There’s always 10 15 possessions that you can get better at. And you know, I think there was critical moments there uh that tallied up to those throughout the second, third, fourth quarter that we just got to learn from and get better. Coach, I know it’s just just happened, but because you have the game Sunday, is there anything in particular that you do different in your approach to make certain adjustments in that short time frame, that turn around time? Yeah, I mean, we’ll obviously just go back and watch the film and and kind of see, you know, obviously start with the things that you can control. uh the transition. They had 29 points in transition. Uh obviously some some free throws there uh critical free throws that we could get better at and then uh just offensive execution. So you know we’ll take a look at that tomorrow. Joe, this is the second game in a row where the other team got off to a pretty hot start in the first quarter deficit was pretty immediate. Was there any correlation between the two games of stuff you think you didn’t do well at the jump or was it two separate instances? Uh no. I mean, I think that uh they got out in transition in both games and um you know, they I think I think they shot 7 for 12 in the first quarter from three. Uh so I think it was a little bit of, you know, a hot start by them from a shooting perspective, but there was some transition there um that we could definitely uh that we can clean up for sure. And you guys are running this like chaotic defense in the half court and and then on offense you’re sending a lot of guys crashing. It feels like that can maybe like not necessarily hurt the transition, but when the other team is running so fast, the mismatches can get, you know, crossed on the other end and that can take you out of that, you know, help for each other defensive style. Is that something you’re seeing? Is it do you think like are there ways to get better at the transition defense or even off like makes when they just take it and push and things get scrambled? Well, I mean, it just depends on what type of shot. I think the Dan Carroll one that was a 12-footer. You know, it’s also, you know, what type of shot that it was, but there’s definitely five or six possessions tonight where like you gave up a layup regardless of the defensive uh our offensive result where we had, you know, for uh you guys you guys open up that third quarter with a timeout and run. Uh what ch I know this game is about a game of momentum shifts and changes, but what sparked that run and how do you sustain that moving forward? Yeah, we just did a good job controlling things. they they didn’t get to the free throw line. I think they had no offensive rebounds, no second chance points in the third quarter, you know, so we were able to control that. We’re able to control the transition and uh you know, I thought we executed well on offense. Joe, as you reflect on this game, does it feel like um just one of those where it’s like a couple of bad momentum swings in the fourth quarter resulted in this or like how do you process the first, you know, three and a half quarters leading up to those plays that we all saw? Again, every game’s the same. It always comes down to pockets of that. If it’s a blowout, they don’t they get talked over and we talk about other stuff. If it’s a, you know, in this situation, those get magnified, right? And I think that’s the growth that um that we just have to continue to fight for as a team as we brought the effort and the physicality. We got to bring the execution and you know, in a game of swings like that where it’s close throughout most of it, uh those plays are those plays matter and they’re magnified and we just got to get better. And then two two minutes for Anthony Simons in the first half. Did you have a message for him at the half of like this is what I want to see out of you and and kind of how did he respond from that? Uh I thought he responded pretty well. I thought he was more aggressive in the second half and there was no message there. I think uh you know he just has an understanding of you know what we have to uh do on both ends of the floor. I thought we did a much better job of that in the second half. There was no message to playing a guy two minutes in the first half. Oh the message just said the word. Yeah. Uh before we get into it, I want to pull up a couple of comments because it’s so interesting. I I I do think people are losing their minds a little bit. Um the uh you know, we talked we talked about everyone having to play up and you know, I I I know there’s some push back here and I’ve got comments like PP is not an NBA starter and our Give me a break with the pressured stuff. I’m so sick. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I I I’m going to tell you what I’m sick of. Okay. And then this one, this start from our from our our boy Big Kess here, our guy. Um, you know, all the D White All-Star combo and proper perspective, it’s a whole different kettle of fish time. He won beer for real. That’s absolutely right. Derek White is struggling right now to generate his own offense without all of the players around him uh that uh, you know, create that kind of gravity. I am really confused because and here’s where I’m going to lose my mind a little bit. Derek White’s not scoring. He’s not shooting well at all right now. Derek White is not playing poorly. I the entire basis of my existence around Derek White was when he shot like ass when the Celtics first got him, everybody who knows ball told me I didn’t know Ball because I wasn’t looking at all of the other stuff that he was doing. And now everyone has lost their minds because he started the season on a cold shooting stretch. And I don’t disagree with that point Cass made. I I do think it’s going to be harder. JB is the only guy on this team whose life doesn’t change in the sense that he’s the same guy. Give me the ball and get out of my way and I’m going to score. And that’s what he’s doing. That’s exactly what he’s doing. That’s what he did even when Tatum was here or when Tatum and Porzingis and Holiday and that’s what he does for him. He can play the alpha role. That’s in his DNA. It’s never been in White’s DNA to be be a 1B guy. So, it is going to be harder, but he’s not playing horribly uh to He had a 10 assist night tonight. He he he made a lot of good basketball plays and he actually shot the ball okay. He’s not hitting it from three, but people have turned on White in the craziest way possible because he was I’m shocked by how many people have turned against White here. He was legit untouchable right now. Like an untouchable player that could do no wrong and everyone’s lost their minds here. Am I missing something? So, I I tallied it up after last game. He’s one of three players at least going into tonight alongside Evan Mobley and uh Scotty Barnes who had averaged I think 1.6 six steals per game and 1.3 blocks per game. He’s got a 5 to1 assist to turnover ratio, too. What’s Browns? One to one, guys. One to one. I will say this, I’m losing it here because Jaylen is scoring his ass off in a in a in a way that we haven’t seen in a year in a in two years. He’s out of his mind. His separation he’s getting on his step back, the fact that he’s able to play bully ball, he can get wherever he wants. Is he making his teammates better right now? because that was supposed to be the JB step up and we’re not seeing it yet. So, everyone’s gushing over the points right now and we’re missing a little piece of this equation right now. Brown’s doing everything he can because this is how he affects the game best. He scores, but the I’m a playmaker and I’m going to do this, I’m going to do stuff better. We’re not seeing that yet from from from him. So, if you’re looking at guys who are struggling to create their own offense and you’re seeing Pritchard and White, you know, having to do everything on their own, maybe offensively a little a little more something, you know, going on here where it’s not just every time Pritchard scores, he dribbles the ball how many times, Bobby? Like 47 times. You know, he’s got to go to work. He’s got to go to work every time. White’s going to work every time. We We You guys went You went over it before. There’s fewer assisted threes. A lot of it’s more on your own. Like everyone’s forced to do stuff individually right now. So I And they’re not playing with the pace that they said that they were going to play with. Right. And and Manx said a lot of one-on-one. A lot of one-on-one all over the court here on this offense. Yeah. And Manx said something interesting when he was on the show with us yesterday. He said that he feels like they’re keeping the system in place from last year because Tatum’s going to come back and they want to insert him into that. So they didn’t want to overhaul this offense. I don’t want to hear this kind of stuff cuz you guys said that they’re going to be a 45 to 50 win team and a four or five seed until Tatum gets back. So now PE you guys are moving the goalpost. They can’t suck now. Everybody thought that they were going to be fine. Okay. So come on. They either suck or they don’t suck. You know, like we got to decide where we are on this thing. Anyway, yeah. And I I do think you reach and your your criticism of the playmaking with him has been fair. The assist to turnover ratio has been pretty rough for Jaylen to this point, but I do think you reach a level of efficiency. I just pulled up the pick and roll numbers for him. Um, they’re through the roof just because of his scoring efficiency. And what I’ll give him credit for, even though he might not be doing certain things, is this is an offense that’s been so rellying on the three again to begin this year. And he has forced the issue by getting inside, hitting tough shots, generating twos. the the mid-range that you talked about, John. They came into tonight sixth in mid-range uh shooting percentage even though they’re 27th in three-point percentage. So, you know, you just give him credit in all these different areas across the offense that I get the argument you’re trying to make. But in totality, I think his scoring has been so good, so efficient that it does vault his impact ahead of Whites so far just because White’s scoring has been he didn’t score until midway. There’s no there there’s no question. White’s shooting right now. I mean, his true shooting is like 40 something. He’s It’s miserably bad right now, but his net rating is higher than Brown’s. His assist to turnover ratio is good. He’s just not shooting well at all. Like that’s that’s it. He’s just simply not shooting. And again, this isn’t excuse making for White. It’s just he’s shooting like this is this is a defense that they’re playing. But I’m shocked how people have turned on him like crazy. And again, the 13 threes and the 12 threes and all of that where he started the season, he was averaging 11 threes a game through the first six or seven, five or six games was insane. You know, he’s only shooting threes and and look at how often bad shot profile. Yeah. Yeah. And look at how often he’s battling one-on-one, forced to take his man off the dribble, forced to beat his guy and break him down one-on-one. I mean, the the screening on this team, the actions that they’re running just haven’t been good enough. They’ve been flat. They’ve been slow. They’ve just been pretty stale offensively. We we we mentioned the pace hasn’t been up all that much. Um maybe that’s something you can criticize Jaylen for because he hasn’t been super efficient in transition. No one really has. There were stretches in this game, John, tonight where they were getting run off the court. And if we’re talking about like who was controlling the speed of this game, it was Orlando. And that is a team you talk about, John, everybody goes into a season saying that they want to play faster. That’s what Orlando did. And that’s what it actually looks like. what they went out there and did tonight putting that into action. So this offense for this team, the defense has been great. The defense has been great. The offense has killed them. But on this conversation is this is this is this is a fact. I mean Derek White is not a create your own offense guy. It just isn’t his thing. He can he can get to his floaters and sometimes you see him he’ll get to the basket a little bit, but again so much of that is dependent on the defense not keying in on him. uh you know when he’s supposed to be the 1B guy. It’s going to be a struggle like it is like it’s a struggle for Pritchard. He has to work really really really hard for his shots. I don’t know. I I I believe Pritchard is going to I I believe the three was always going to come back for Pritchard. Certainly on the open looks. I don’t know if I don’t know if his mid-range stuff is sustainable. Like he’s he’s out of his mind right now, you know, in what he’s doing in and around the basket and in the paint. The stat they put up. be second only to Giannis on drives, you know, and score, you know, scoring percentage on drives. That’s crazy. But he’s working his ass off to get to those spots and to get, you know, so it’s harder. Everything Everything’s harder for ev for everybody across the board right now. And coming into tonight, yeah, he was he was 21 for 25 in the short and mid-range, 11 for 21 in the mid-range. I mean, that’s just absurd. It’s crazy. you know, he was struggling from three, you know, 0 for two in the corner, 15 for 65 above the break, um, and 6 for9 at the rim. So, credit to these guys for self-correcting a little bit in Brown’s case and Pritchard getting to other areas on the court for easier shots. I mean, that’s stuff that I think it messes everything up. It does, but it messes everything up. like Payton Pritchard now instead of being a complimentary ball player who can handle the ball, distribute a little bit when he needs to, it has to literally just look to generate offense all the time. You know, when he’s on the court, that’s his number one job. All of these guys have been red not reduced, but they’ve they their responsibilities have shifted a little bit to you got to find a way to score right now because you’re you’re the guys who can do it. Um, and it’s again it’s it’s it’s taking away other aspects of their game. It’s taken a little bit away from Pritchard how hard he came in with five assists a game. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I mean he’s gotten his pick and roll game going. I I I think Pritchard’s been good. I think White has struggled in the new role more than anyone. I think Jaylen, you do have to take a look at the passing and play making there in terms of setting other guys up because they just don’t have a consistent role game right now. They don’t have a consistent transition attack. their offense is super inconsistent and you look at the head of the snake when that’s happening. So those three guys have an enormous level of responsibility on their plate offensively and I I I’ll go back to Simons because you thought he’d be part of that dynamic to begin this year too and I just don’t see anything there. Maybe other than a three going down here or there. And that might not be his fault cuz he’s just trying to fit in right now. But man, have has he struggled to get integrated here um and become a part of this offense consistently. And I don’t what did you what do you feel like was the reason he played two minutes in the first half, John? I don’t know. Sherrod, I I was puzzled by it, too. So, I I’ll defer that one. He He allowed that dunk right to Black, you know, on the tip on the on the tip, and it was like I felt like that was one of Joe’s like, I’m mad at you. You’re going to sit for a minute. But then he sat the whole half which was which was shocking because I looked I was like did I miss it? Was he in foul trouble? No. I mean he did have a lot of fouls but they all came in the second half. When he sat in the first half it was only one f he only had one foul. So I I don’t know. No it just didn’t make sense to to me and I I don’t think it made sense to a lot of people why he didn’t play unless the the mindset was that we need to go with our best defensive players at this point. Uh which doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense considering how early things were at that point in the game. Uh, I don’t know. This was this was a head scratcher and and Joe’s response, you know, when he was asked about it didn’t really shed enough light on to where you make any kind of sense of of of what he said. Yeah. Very usual. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, I I I’m not really sure on that, but uh we’ll we’ll, you know, we’ll hear from a few guys in the locker room, see if we get it. I do want to tell you once again about our pals over at uh Prize Picks here. And again, by now you know this show, all shows uh here at the uh Garden Report and CLNS Media Network are brought to you by our pals over at Prize Prize Picks, the number one daily fantasy sports app in all of North America. 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Get 50 in your lineups instantly when you play $5. Once again, download the app. Code CLNS. Get 50 in your lineups when you play $5. Prize picks. It is good to be right. Bringing it back here uh to us. thought about wearing the the bucket hat tonight, John. I couldn’t find it. Oh, yeah. I’m sorry. Orlando, you know, and to honor the the Vegas dream dying probably here tonight. Oh, yeah. The Vegas dream. I that stuff always throws me too when you’re watching them like scramble late to get buckets and substitute with.5 seconds left in the game. Um, it is so weird to see that. But yeah, the dream is probably dead here with that one loss. It’s going to be a challenge for them to get in here, but we’ll see. You know, it’s uh they got that they got, you know, if they win next one, they got a cupcake against Brooklyn. I guess it’s not impossible, right? Yeah, you’d have to run it up there, but the Pistons are running it up right now against them, too. So, everybody’s going to do that. Um, yeah, I would guess they probably won’t get in after this. And they only beat Philly by one in that game that they did win. So, yeah, this this didn’t help them here. Would they lose by 13? So, minus 12. So, we’ll see. It’s possible. Um, but they got bigger concerns right now than winning the cup. Who predicted they’d win the cup? That was one of the bold predictions. Jimmy. Man, Jimmy. Still waiting for the no no two-pointer game, too. What the hell was you thinking with that one? Oh, good. Someone actually someone actually asked me they were like I was telling someone um one of the games I was like oh we did our bold predictions going this year and he was like oh what was the craziest one or like what was the worst one I was like uh someone uh said that the Celtics weren’t going to hit a two in a game I don’t know what the hell that yeah um other things to you know kind of look at throughout this game I don’t get the Simons thing I don’t get the doghouse thing. I don’t get Missoula putting people in the doghouse in general. I think ultimately I’ll say this, it it kind of worked getting him going into the second half with the three-point outburst and a little defensive energy there. So maybe it motivate I don’t know what like I don’t get the psychology of the Simon situation right now where he comes in and he’s under lockdown and has to go through defensive training camp and you know if you don’t improve on that side of the ball you might not play as much as you wanted to here. Like we’re really, you know what I was thinking, John? We’re in a very Schroeder situation with him right now on this team where the skill the skill set’s obvious, like what he adds to the team is pretty clear, but he he just hasn’t been empowered to do that yet so far. And it feels like he’s like, and you know, I’ve been around him, John, like he’s he’s walking on eggshells. It feels like, you know, stepping into this team. Like he doesn’t want to mess with what Brown and Pritchard and White and some of these guys are doing coming in here. like the onus has been on defense with him like heavily. And I get it, right? Like you want to improve the part of his game that’s been his biggest weakness to this point, but it doesn’t feel like they’ve allowed him to be himself. And credit to him for, you know, going through these stretches like in the second half tonight where he becomes a microwave scoreer. That was a big reason they beat New Orleans for their first win of the year. But I just feel like his impact’s been so understated so far. And obviously that’s going to be the case when you play him two minutes and a half. Yeah. Facts. Facts. Yeah. I mean, they just they never embraced him, John, from the minute he got here. Like, you never saw him. He never got talked up until they really had to. And now he’s just been an understated part of what they’ve done to begin this year. Like, it just doesn’t look to me like he’s an important part of what they’re doing now or going forward. And it’s unfortunate cuz you do remember what he was at his best in Portland and you you wish you could tap into that a little bit. Like have we even seen like a shade of that to this point? Simons. Yeah. Like maybe in that New Orleans game against the worst team in the league. I don’t know. It is. It feels to me that it’s I this is where I struggle with Joe’s philosophy on on on some stuff. Um and I tweeted something about Kada in this regard as well. Like everyone can’t be who you want them to be. You got to just kind of let them be who they are and then those hope that those the positives outweigh the negatives. Like Anthony Simons just needs to get 15 to 15 16 shots a game. He’s just got to be out there and he’s just got to chuck it because that’s what he does best. That’s how he’s going to help you best. Then you hope on the other end that he can stay flat, stay even defensively and not be a total liability. But you you’re not putting him out there and trying to expect the same things that you’re getting out of the Walsh or the Ugo minutes in terms of energy and and active hands and rebounding and all of those things. It’s or my not. It’s simply not going to happen. Like he’s just got to be that guy. You just got to lean into it. I hate this idea of like I I want to play a certain way and certain guys don’t allow me to play that way. I think you run into this with Kada as well and that’s what I tweeted. It it reminds me of the early days of Rob where they want him to be a thing and he’s not exactly that and then they just focus on what he can’t do and they get frustrated with that and then you step away and you’re like, “Wow, he was a plus 20 and the uh his onoff numbers are ridiculous and our are our his net rating is the best on the team.” It’s like, well, that’s [ __ ] that that’s good. Good is good. Bad is bad. It doesn’t have to be good the way you want it to be good. And so, right now, you’re you’re struggling to get you’re struggling to get the things that people do well out of them right now. You’re getting nothing out of Sam Hower right now. Nothing. Nothing. You’re not getting anything out of Prince uh out of out of uh out of Simons. You want to be a team that can shoot threes and spread the floor. And your two best shooters are a mess right now. like they’re not they’re not they’re not part they’re not part of this thing. So it’s in congruous. You have one unit that can play this way and another that can’t. And if those guys are out there what are they supposed to be doing? Like it it the whole thing is weird and messy and like I think you know still trying to fit pieces together but you’re not getting the good stuff out of those guys at all. And I think that that’s a failure that’s a failure of Joe. Yeah. And this isn’t the guy like Ugo Walsh Min, you know, guys like that you understand mixing and matching and different guys on different nights, right? Like this is a guy who should be a shoe in with a pretty significant role. And I’m not going to get into the start sit Pritchard Simons thing cuz honestly the more I think about it, I don’t I don’t really think that matters all that much. And Pritchard has played well enough to continue uh to warrant continuing to start. Like if people really want to make that argument, I won’t begrudge them cuz I mean you’re going to have to try everything through the course of this year probably to figure this thing out. But um I think it’s more that Pritchard has been heavily utilized and involved and active on the ball in his minutes and Simons has just floated around and waited for his shot. Um so maybe that comes down to starting sitting, but I feel like it’s more than that right now. I think it’s aggression. There’s been a couple quotes through the last week or two here that the coaching staff’s been begging Simons to get more aggressive and has been trying to figure out like where’s your spots? Where do you like to get the ball? What kind of sets can we run for you? So, there’s been an active attempt, at least from what we’ve heard, to get him more involved here. But, it’s just been a pretty passive, understated start for him to begin his Celtics career. He hasn’t been horrible. He’s been efficient. Like, look at these numbers here. This is pretty much what he’s done at low volume to begin this year throughout. Yeah. Um, I’m going to put this up here now. And again, it’s it’s interesting because it’s the I’ll I’ll ask you guys, okay, we made this a poll. Uh, and I mentioned Hower and we, you know, we talked about Simons. I I threw Baylor Shyman in there as well. Uh, and Derek White, which Celtics player are you most worried about? What do you think the early results are right now? Probably. You had to guess, right? Pritcher’s not even on the poll. Oh, who’s on the poll? Jaylen. I know. Who are you most worried about? I put Derek White, Sam Hower, Baylor Shyman, and Anthony Simons. Who are you most worried about right now? Got to be Shyman, right? I’m I’m going Derek. Derek by what percentage? I say 17%. Derek is the 57% right now of people in a four-person poll think Derek White is what they’re most worried about. I mean, did Sherman even play tonight? He didn’t play. Yeah. Can’t worry about what you can’t see, right? I guess that’s the point. Baylor’s Baylor’s not worried about Baylor like, oh, it’s just it’s more of the I think we talked ourselves into him being a a fixed rotational player entering this year and a possible year two leap and he looks like he’s going to be playing in Europe in a year. Um, that’s that’s I mean, did he go behind the back last game or was that the Utah game where he threw the ball away back? I knew that wasn’t going to be a good result for him coming out of that. Yeah, it’s tough right now. I mean, I was saying a week ago, John, there’s been more good than bad here. I mean, um, there’s been the same amount of good and bad here. I think we’re tilting toward a little more bad than good at this point, which record-wise makes sense. What? And again, it is it’s funny to me. I don’t know what every single person in the chat right now thought heading into the season. I do feel like the consensus view was they’re going to be better than people think. They’re going to be a 45 plusish win team. They’re going to be outside of the playin. They’re going to be competing for that 56 slot with a possible top four finish. You know, was still saying that yesterday. I feel a lot of people felt that. So, it is surprising to me. Maybe it’s maybe the people watching this show still are the ones who did not feel that and that’s why it’s overwhelming or all of you flipped. I don’t know what this is. Not nothing about what’s happening so far this season is surprising including some of the people who are struggling struggling because as we said everybody’s being forced to kind of punch above their weight class and it’s an adjustment and that includes the good players like White and Pritchard who have struggled with their shots early in the season because more is being asked of them. That’s none of this is surprising. I don’t think Derek White is a number two offensive option on a team. I don’t even I don’t know that Pton Pritchard is a set it and forget it starter on a team. Not that he can’t be, but I do think he’s better suited as a spark plug, you know, Vinnie Johnson, come off the bench, you know, microwave, heat up, and score a bunch of points mode. That’s that’s where he’s best suited. Um, and everybody and Sam Hower’s not a starter. It lasted two games. He’s not He’s not a starting NBA player. Not a starting NBA player on a good team. He’s a you bring him in and he knocks down some shots and that’s it. He’s not your guy. He’s not that guy. And you know if he’s stacking up the positives still. So all of this stuff is not surprising. But also I think people were like Jordan Walsh leap, Baylor Shyman leap, and you’re not getting that stuff either. So like, you know, you’re not getting a lot of Yeah. Those guys are just coming into games playing for their life. Isn’t that what Walsh said this morning? Like he was asked, “Are you playing for your life right now?” and he was like, “Yeah.” So, it’s just a pretty frenetic scrambling effort from a lot of those guys coming in rather than them fitting into a role and showing progress in certain areas of their game, even for Ugo just starting his career. Like, he’s basically flying around out there. And it’s great to see that he’s surviving NBA minutes at 19. Uh, but even he’s being asked a lot in his role right now. And sometimes that gets the best of him when he has to guard Kevin Durant in Rocket Celtics. Like, that’s just not going to go well. and he picked up three fouls in that first half. So, everybody’s being stretched thin here. Everybody’s being asked to do way more than they probably should be asked to. Um, and listen, credit to Jaylen who’s been efficient and consistent and available every night in his role. I think he’s proven that he can carry a team to competitiveness. Um, even a flawed roster like this one, he’s done a lot, even with some of the criticisms you made earlier, John, that I think are valid. The defense I think is a feather in Joe’s cap and I was gonna come in here and do the victory lap over the turnover thing until they, you know, completely collapsed in that department late. But they came into tonight like plus six per game in turnover differential when the second place team was like plus three. So I thought that was a legitimate accomplishment and they’ve won the turnover game now in all 10 games. So that was their strategy coming into this year. It’s been an effective one. and it’s only led to four wins out of 10 games. So, how effective is it without other stuff involved there? They’ve stabilized the rebounding thing. So, listen, we’re we’re basing this team this season on a recent standard to some degree and based off you’re basing it on you’re basing it on a uniform. Yep. Yes. And based on what they have right now and what they’re rolling with and their deficiencies, I mean, four and six is a little disappointing if you thought that they were going to exceed expectations this year, but this might actually be them getting every little thing that they can out of this roster to this point. We’re going to see what that ends up becoming here. Maybe I will give Joe credit. Like people are killing Joe, John. I feel like Joe No, no, no. Joe credit. I I I I like I said, I hate the blame it on the coach stuff, you know? That’s like Le Jimmy and I always joke about this. It’s like it’s the parents who blame every single thing on their mediocre children, you know. It’s not it’s not it’s it’s not them. It’s the teachers. It’s the coach. They don’t have a great mix of students in the class. There’s troublemakers. Blah blah blah. No, it’s your kid is your kid is average. Your kid is an average kid. Go live with it. Okay. It just is. Most of most kids are like just accept it, but they can’t. And that’s what a lot of people are with the Celtics, like they can’t. It’s got to be the coach. My only gripe is the the insistence on, you know, doing it his way or the highway. It might be working in terms of motivation or getting guys to understand this is what it takes to play for me. And I don’t normally mind that. I’m just saying on a team right now that has just, you know, a major talent deficit over the better teams here, you have to the guys who do what they do well have to be afforded that opportunity to do it well. And I don’t know that you’re getting that across the board right now because you’re kind of you’re messing with them, you know, like I said, and you know, the the Simons house or whatever it is, they don’t have a rotation and they don’t have a rotation and they’re kind of he’s kind of just feeling it out each game. And I know he said at the beginning of the year this would be their superpower, but it’s messing with some people. Uh I I didn’t believe that from the second he said it. I didn’t either. Let speaking of speaking about it, let’s uh let’s let’s uh let’s hear from Anthony Simons about tonight. that two-minute stretch, things kind of went rough for you guys as a as a team. What was your view of um what you were doing during that stretch and what was his message to you um in the first half? Um I think what’s uh you know, Jay Walsh and and Hugo came in and changed the game for us. Um got us back into the game. I think that was it was pretty much that simple. Um you know, all you got to do is control and you know, when you get out there, do your best to impact the game. And I think you know Jay Walsh and uh Ego was doing the best at that. They got us back in that game with all the energy plays and stuff like that. So um it’s really that simple to me. Was that missing previously that the energy either from you or from the team? I think I think as a team we got to you know slowly that was making they was making threes um um but I think we needed we did need a burst of energy um somebody that come in there and just um you know rough up the game a little bit more and so I think they gave us the best chance to do that. feel like there were a lot of compounding like turnovers at the end, you know, you know, a errand pass, a take foul. Like when you get in that spot, how hard is it to like snap out of the mentality of like everything is going wrong and sort of switch back to London? Uh, I think it’s just, you know, just being more attentive to to what’s going on and u valuing those possessions. Um, you know, those could be, you know, growing pains us as a team being in those positions together for the first time. And I think we’re going to as we go through these, you know, situations, I think we get better at them. I think this is one tonight where we can learn a lot from, especially at the end of the game as well. 10 games into the season, where do you feel like you guys are at compared to kind of where you want to be? Not even the record speaking, but more just the way you guys have been playing. Um, yeah, I think um for the most part tonight, I think we played we played pretty well. I think obviously them making all those threes um didn’t help our case at all, but um I think for the most part uh we can we can live with, you know, them making making all those threes and um as long as we playing the brand of basketball we want to play, I think we can we all can live with it. And so it just got to be a consistent thing each and every night where we’re coming in and, you know, playing that type of way for, you know, 40 40 48 minutes. How do you keep yourself engaged when you’re scoreless through three whatever quarters and then you start to just cook from behind the three and the fourth? Like how do you continue to tell yourself or whatever it is mentally that you know you’re still going to play your game and knock some shots? Um I honestly just experience you know what I mean like early on in my career that those type of things will happen to me a lot and um you know you just got to relax and understand you know the situation you put in and you know go out there and play the game you know how how you know how to play and be confident in those situations and as long as you’re confident in situations I think whether they the shots go in or not you can always live with those results and um knowing that you know you went out there and put your best foot forward um with the with the tal that you did have. What’s the what’s the balance when when a team you obviously would prefer to shoot threes uh starts making them? What’s the balance of, oh, they’re hitting tonight or potentially, hey, we’re not guarding them still as well as we should? Yeah, it’s it’s it’s it’s definitely a hard balance, you know, um you know, for a team that might not be, you know, great at three-point shooting and they making making those type of threes um tonight. It’s it’s kind of a balance, but um you know, next game you got to adjust. you know, we played them, you know, obviously on Sunday and so we just got to adjust and um just continue to play the brand of basketball. We we know how to play and just adjust to how, you know, the game is being played and, you know, the shots they’re making. What changes from a a game plan perspective when you do have these backto-back games against the same team? Um, so, uh, I think it’s worth pointing out. Two things I don’t love, two things I hate talking about, Bobby, and you know this. I hate talking about refs. I hate talking about shooting variants. Uh that being said, or Orlando being unconscious from three is not something that you can expect and the game tilts a lot if they don’t do that. And I think that it’s fair here because that’s just not who they are. And this wasn’t just a, you know, I mean, shoot, it happened with Houston, too. You know, you’ve got like, you know, guys knocking down threes that don’t always knock down threes either. That game spiraled because of that. it got ridiculously out of hand uh because they hit literally every single corner three even though the Celtics weren’t defending them. Well, that doesn’t always happen here. So, I think that that’s fair. Another thing I want to say is credit to Simons. He could be pissier right now and he’s not. Um he is in fact for a guy who’s been in the league several years, has had success in the league for several years, has been a starter and been a relied upon scorer. um who’s playing, you know, to start games, to finish games. Um right now he could huff and puff a little bit and and and and have a little attitude. And he sounds like more like a first or second year guy who’s trying to earn his minutes, which is a credit to him. I I at this point, I don’t know what he’s thinking and feeling inside, but but yeah, I mean, I I’ll give him that. I I’ve talked to him a lot to begin this season and that is something I felt that he doesn’t want to step on anybody’s toes that he doesn’t want to over assert himself and like I said the coaching staff has tried to push him to um be more aggressive to be more himself and it’s been a balance for him coming in here and listen they’ve asked a lot from him. I think Joe’s you know we have the group of guys on this team who Joe’s been tough on. I think he definitely falls into that category here. Um, but I think, you know, just talking to some of his former teammates who have stopped through Boston over the last couple weeks here, like there is a humbling element to getting traded uh for the first time as he did there. Um, after being the man on that team after pretty much leading the franchise through some down years, they lost a lot of games over that stretch, too. And there was this perception that his defense was a big problem, and he’s addressed that head on. He’s accepted that. and even in a contract year, he’s embraced a smaller role um to try to help this team win. And how long will that acceptance last if things go off the rails here? I think that’s going to be a good question with a lot of different guys here. I mean, do you think he came in here, John, expecting to say, “Oh, Jordan Walsh and Ugo Gonzalez were playing good, so I I’ll take a seat.” Right. No. No. I mean, again, but he hasn’t. And again, I’ve seen in I I’ve covered, you know, I’ve covered sports for a long time and seen multiple teams and multiple situations where guys don’t handle it this well. You know, Malcolm Brogden handled it pretty well, but he still played a key role, but inside he was seething. He didn’t like it one bit. He did not. I credit to Joe. I mean, Joe has good buying right now across the board with this group. The level’s high, commitment to the system’s high. So, that’s a positive. That’s my fear is you wonder if that’s going to Wayne for certain people. It’s never going to it’s never you’re never not going to have buyin from the guys who are fighting to prove that they belong in this league. You’re always going to get May not you’re going to get Kada even if he makes some mistakes. You’re going to get Ugo. You’re going to get Walsh playing their asses off even if it’s imperfect all the time. So you you’ve got guys who are playing minutes right now. You expect buyin. You’re expecting it from your professionals as well. Pritchard, you’re expecting it from White. You’re expecting it from Jaylen. Uh, you know, so you have enough guys who are getting the minutes. I’d be shocked if one of those guys Simons was really the only wild card because he’s coming from somewhere else. He’s in a contract year and he, you know, he’s a borderline star, you know? I mean, he’s a he’s a he’s a guy who’s again, you know, you know, good scoreer, bad team. There’s lots of those guys, but he could be the only one you could see bucking, you know, and it it hasn’t happened so far, even though he’s kind of been yanked around a little bit. So, I will say credit to him. I am curious though, a lot of people in the chat are calling for have been calling for him to start from the beginning and calling for more Simons minutes and then just see what you can get because in terms of natural scorers on this team, it’s Brown, it’s Pritchard, it’s Simons. Those are the natural scorers on this team. and you know, you have to you’re not utilizing one of them enough at the moment. So, it’s a fair conversation. We’ll continue it uh in a minute. 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I’ve already ordered mine. I’m halfway through my first box of ribe eyes, which I got eight ribe eyes. Uh the kids like them, too. So, that’s this has been great for us. I got a roast coming to me around Christmas. That’s something you guys could do as well. You can order ahead, get something sent to you or send it as a gift in and around Christmas time. Order it now. Save yourself a ton of money and send it to somebody special uh over the holidays. So, again, save big with Omaha Stakes. Visit omahastak.com for 50% off sitewide and an extra 20% off select favorites during their early Black Friday sale. for an extra $35 off. Promo code Patriots at checkout. Terms to apply, see the site for details. Once again, 50% off at omahastakess.com. Promo code Patriots at checkout for an additional $35. So, Bobby, you hate this conversation. Uh, but I’ll ask it again. I I I’ve not I don’t think it matters as much as people make it out to matter, but if you want to try something new, would you consider Simon Simons over Pritchard in the starting? I I don’t Yeah, I’d consider anything. Yeah. And I’ve said that since the start. I just don’t understand why that’s where people are looking. like Simons does have his flaws as a player and there’s a reason that he didn’t attract major attention across the league. Boston couldn’t move on from him despite an apparent desire to do so here. And part of that’s the contract, right? But part of it is his ability to fit in on a team like this. And I I don’t I what I struggle with here is what what people think he is. Like do people watch him night in and night out in Portland and like fully absorb who he is as a player or did they just look at the stat sheet and say, “Whoa, he put up big numbers out there. He’s better than Pritchard.” Pritchard pretty solid start this year. I I I know. But let let’s start off good, too. This is where we have to step out of this conversation. And I actually do think Pritchard is a slightly better defender even though he’s a little bit smaller. Um he’s just better at keeping guys in front of him. Uh Simon sometimes can get lost a little bit or gamles. Um but athletically Simon should be able to do everything Pritchard does offensively even though he’s undersized. Um you know he’s a little taller but he’s not you know Pritchard’s stocky. He’s got a good base. So I I like Pritchard. He competes on defense but defensively it’s clo it’s not a wash. It’s not like you’re it’s not holiday, you know? It’s not you’re not switching out offense for defense here, you know, it’s two offensive players. So like has any I could say the same if if if Simons was here if Simons was here and he was your starting point guard and Pton Pritchard came from Portland averaging what Simons averaged. We’d be having the same conversation like don’t we know what Pritchard is? He’s just a guy who scores a lot. They’re the same guy. Yeah, sort of. They score. They score points. They’re bucket getters. Yeah. Simon’s pick and roll numbers have been good. I don’t know. What do you feel like Sherado on this topic? Because it’s been one since the summer. It has. And then and the thing about it, the minute you get to a point where you have a resolution, it’s going to change and you’re going to be back to where you were to begin with. Um I just don’t think Simons can win in this in this conversation, no matter what he does. Um he he might be soft as people are saying in the chat. Pritchard might be more of a dog. I think that’s fair, too. Listen, I do think, listen, I I’ll give the people who want to see him start some credit here in the sense that if he starts, he will be more empowered. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. And Pritchard does have the pedigree of coming off the bench and succeeding in that role. But on this roster with the depth so thin and the bench has struggled so much at times, I think if you flip those two, the starters might continue to thrive and the bench Can I ask you guys a question? I I missed it. Um what what what what uh George is asking here uh in the chat? Uh did was Joe asked about Simon’s minutes? Yeah, he was he was asked if he was sending a message with those and he said there was no Okay, I missed it because I was I was kind of fiddling around with other stuff. What did he say? He was asked if there was a message there and he said there was no message but Simons responded and played well in the second half. Blah blah blah blah blah. So, but he didn’t give a reason why. What? So, that was the question. Was there a message? Okay guys, we got to be we just got to ask straight just why why did Simons only play two minutes? That’s the question. That’s okay though. Um but message or not, I I still don’t know why. We still don’t know why. No, he wouldn’t have said it even if he asked direct. But yeah, I know. I know. I know. You just question though if you ask him. I wanted to squirm. Yeah. Yeah. He’s tough. I mean, it’s it’s tough to get anything out of that guy after a game. But I think what you’re looking at here is what Simon said that they were going to hustle guys, energy guys after a poor effort uh competitively against, you know, the main Orlando guys with Simons and the others there to begin this game. I thought Orlando ran them off the court in the opening minutes of these games. You mentioned the dunk, John. I mean, this was just a physical domination to begin this game. And it is crazy to see that after, you know, I thought the Celtics fought hard in this game and the Magic were just better just what, April, how many months ago, the Magic fought hard in that series and the Celtics were just better. And now it’s flipped almost overnight now between these two teams here. So, um, it it does have you thinking a game like this, even though you were right in it, even though you did all the things that you had to to keep it close, that there’s just going to be a lot of games this year where you’re outmatched. Like, they did limit Paulo. They did win the rebounding battle. They did a lot of really good stuff here, but the shooting’s just so bad right now. And you never get to the free throw line and you’re overmatched in the front court. Sometimes these are hard. It’s hard to maintain. It’s hard to sustain their level their their offensive output considering their shot profile right now because again there’s so much coming from Jaylen Brown and uh and and and Pton Pritchard in that mid-range sort of world which is kind of you know again they’re they’re they’re playing so well but uh you know can’t argue with what Brown did certainly with the first three quarters he went on an absolute heater. Uh I’m super impressed for a guy who I didn’t even realize we were kind of saying like oh he doesn’t really dunk as much. No he doesn’t dunk at all. I didn’t realize tonight’s was his first dunk of the season, which is insane. But for a guy who still seems to be uh you know either recovering from the knee or still nursing back the hammy, the explosiveness isn’t all the way there. Yet, he’s getting more separation on his jumpers than I can ever remember getting. His footwork is off the charts good. You know, jab step, getting people off balance, getting back and getting getting his shot off is the bully ball just getting to the rim and again without going up and over people. He’s just able to use his body and fend people off and score uh easily. However, Bobby, you’ve been dying. Two points in the fourth. Two points in the fourth quarter um in this game. He had something interesting to say about this, by the way. We should hear. And he had something interesting. Bobby, I’m I’m setting it. Bobby, this is what I do. I’m building towards this. I’m setting it all up. Two points. I’m so excited for you to hear this. A lot of people are like, “Oh, it’s fatigue.” Or he’s carrying people on his back and he’s tired. Jaylen had a different explanation for why things went wrong. And again, I don’t know where it is in this interview, but this is his post game from the locker room. And you you change kind of in the approach down the stretch that um down the stretch. What’s the question? Yeah, that stretch. You I love JB’s. What’s the question? But in the four I heard words, but I hear question more of a struggle. What What kind of shift? Did they change up their coverage on you? You know, just different things transpiring. Uh, I think in the fourth quarter I think the officials made their point, you know, so I get it. I’ll keep my mouth closed. Oh, I get it. I’ll keep my mouth closed. Jay, down the stretch of the game, you know, there were a couple turnovers, a couple momentum plays like, you know, Josh throwing the pass the wrong way. How much follow that, you know, do you think like how much does that affect you guys mentally like having to battle against those sort of momentum type plays? And you know, what do you think went into those like sort of compounding mistakes? Um, I thought we play hard. I thought we played physical. Um, thought we uh it is a good mistakes that cost us at times, but I thought we had a a solid fight to this game, you know, very physical team, you know. Um, and Bobby, just, you know, things didn’t go our way, I guess. Uh Jaylen, 10 games into the season, it feels like outside of the Utah game, you guys have been pretty happy with the effort in general. Where do you feel like you guys are at compared to kind of where you want to be? I think we’re moving. I think we’re growing. I think we’re getting better. I’m liking what I’m seeing from certain guys. And that’s the most important thing, continuing to get better. I know um you know, we’re not an organization or fan base that makes excuses um especially games that we feel like we can win, but it’s a part of the learning curve and process, you know, so it’s still early in the season. Um, and we got to continue to fight. You know, I’m going continue to fight, continue to help my teammates get better, continue to see where the game and give the game what it needs to be. Um, but you know, that’s a part of it. You you have stressed a lot of patience and obviously it’s a young group, but what can you do to kind of speed up the process so that you know, you don’t let opportunities like this? Uh, you know, you just you be aggressive and you you got to pick and choose the spots in the fourth quarter. You know, I missed some good looks that, you know, I could have got my feet set just a little bit more. Um, and then it compounded, turned in some turnovers and then they scored. Um, and for for our team, they probably need me to make those shots. So, um, you know, I’m human. You know, I’m uh if I shoot a shot and I feel good about it, you know, um, I feel good. But, you know, I got to be I got to be a little better, I guess. In your view, what sparked the the run that they were able to go on in the first quarter, in the first? I thought we uh we kind of came out too flat. I came out a little too flat. Not aggressive enough. We got to be a team that throws the first punch. I’m used to being that, but I think I was looking and assessing a little bit too much instead of just get into like what I know. um you know and it led us led to us having a slow start and um we picked it back up and and things like that but we can’t give up 30 37 point quarters. Obviously it seems like you think the refs are out for retribution after what you said the other night. When you say something like that do you fear them kind of coming back at you and changing the way they All I said is I’m going to keep my mouth closed. I’m going keep my mouth open. Six games this season with 30 plus points three straight. what allows you to find that level of consistency day in and day out? Um, just being aggressive, getting to my spots even today, like physical team, you know, I feel like they were grabbing me and pulling me, trying to knock me off balance, but, you know, just what I work on every day is just being consistent, you know, staying down. Um, couple shots I wish I could have back, you know, settled maybe a little bit, you know, from from three, maybe I could have got downhill a little bit more, but, you know, if you’re not If you’re getting downhill and they’re not giving you those that whistle, then it looks like bad possession. So, you know, maybe I could not settle a little bit more, but you know, I’m also trying to get to the free throw line. John, where do you feel like you’re at physically now? You first dunk of the season tonight. I know you were dealing with the knee last year, the hamstring. Like, what’s the That’s crazy. 10 games, first dunk. uh you know that’s not something that I’m accustomed to but you know starting off the year with uh an injury and then kind of the schedule how it’s been to start this the season you know back to backs travel schedule being on the road a lot of like like five games in like nine nights or whatever the case may be um just trying to get my feet up under me a little bit um is what I’ve been focused on and as the season goes on I I’ll feel better more strong and Um, it’ll be some more dunks coming soon. I promise you guys. I’m glad uh Noah asked that question because it’s fair. Like, anything wrong? You know, like why no dunks? Um, who knows? Uh, anyway, interesting that, you know, he’s insinuating that he gave the ref’s grief against Utah and that came back to bite him. Now, I don’t understand that. It’s not a crew. It’s not a carryover. It’s a strange conspiracy theory. uh here. Um so I don’t, you know, know that I’m 100% down there. Uh maybe Noah, who was in on the interview, can uh lend her insights as well. Uh let’s bring Noah on here and ask, uh Noah, uh we just played uh Jaylen Brown’s um uh uh postgame uh sound there about uh the referee situation. Uh what do we think is happening there? Your name is double stacked. It’s very interesting. Anyway, we’ll There we go. All right. Uh what what what’s what’s your take on that on that situation there? You think he was getting a bad whistle or no whistle in the fourth? Is there any uh anything justified there? I I I definitely find it hard to believe there’s carryover from a previous game with a previous crew and then they talked to these guys and now they have it out for him. So, that seems a little farfetched, but maybe he wasn’t getting the calls or he was getting bumped or um you know, what was your read on the situation? Yeah. Can you guys hear me? Okay. I don’t know, you know, I don’t know if he was specifically insinuating. I mean, it sounded like he was insinuating that his previous comments and the officiating carried over into tonight, but he’s also been talking about pretty much all year that I think he feels like he teams are able to be really physical with him and he doesn’t get to the line. And I don’t think that’s a conspiracy theory. think that guys like him, Giannis, like these guys that are a little bit bigger and stronger than the guys that are guarding them tend to sometimes, you know, defenders can get away with more. Um, I think about it all the time. Derek Derek White would go to the line for the same kinds of plays that Jaylen might not because maybe Derrick White fell and Jaylen didn’t. You know what I mean? So, I I do think there’s something there, but I I don’t know if he was insinuating it was about the officiating from previous the whole situation with the Utah Jazz. Obviously, that was the wrong call and he was upset. He didn’t get fined. So, you know, I don’t really know what to make of that, but he, you know, I think he did not really want to get fined tonight, but he also wanted to make very clear that there was something with officiating that he was not happy with. Um, and I did notice during this game that, you know, these teams are very physical with him. And especially where, you know, Orlando, you have we had pretty good media seats. Like, I have a pretty good advantage of of the court. And that’s the kind of thing I feel like I I can’t see on TV and I can’t see it when I’m far away in the media seats. But there was a lot of grabbing and a lot of pushing and everything. And I mean, part of it’s part of the game, but I do think that he’s one of the the guys in the league that gets kind of deals with it more. Yeah, he’s he’s 38th in free throw attempts, probably a little lower than I expected him to be, and he does deal with it to some degree. I agree with John that it’s hard to imagine carryover from Utah. Um, but I do think we’ve seen visibly from him on the court a lot of frustration with the officiating to begin this year. Now, I’ll say this. They’re utilizing the pulling tugging that’s been allowed across the league now and has been well documented and spoken about to this point as much as anybody. It’s been pretty central to the plan that they had defensively to begin this year. So, um I’d have to go and look at everything to see how much they’ve benefited from it versus how much they’ve been hurt by it. But it is understood that this is how the game’s being called now. It was a shock to everybody. halfway through the year, three quarters through the year last year when the officiating standards or emphasis changed. Um, which was really strange. But going into this year, everybody had a pretty good idea how this was going to be called after the Oklahoma City stuff and after the Celtics Magic series that we just watched in April with that was a pretty big conversation coming out of it. So, it sucks. It’s frustrating to deal with, I’m sure, but it wasn’t totally unexpected to begin this year. And that’s where the league’s at right now. And his head coach, Joe Misoula, said he loves it. He thinks the game’s in a great place with where the physicality is and what’s being allowed. And so the coach loves it. Jaylen, not so much. Yeah. Go ahead, Noah. No, I wouldn’t necessarily say that Jaylen doesn’t like the physicality. I think that he can play physical as well. I think he feels and I I’m I’m not going to say that I know for certain, but I think he feels like he doesn’t get the same whistle as other guys. And there is true I will say just watching a lot of NBA basketball, there are a couple of players, more than a couple of players that do not get the same kinds of calls as other guys. And I I think it has a lot to do with like their strength. Um I think Giannis is I keep bringing up Giannis, but it’s like he’s one of those guys every time I turn on the Bucks game, I’m like they didn’t call that like if somebody else they call it. It’s one thing to be like this is the way we’re going to do officiating. But I think that where you start to see people get upset. It’s not about what the standard is. It’s about when they feel like the standard deviates for certain players. I think that’s always the the root of the critiques from from individuals. Yeah. Uh Noah, you asked there at the end. We’ll just stay on this and then we’ll kind of we’ll circle back to the game itself. Um you had asked about I was surprised. I mean, we’ve talked about on the show that, you know, Brown doesn’t dunk anymore, but I didn’t realize he didn’t dunk at all. Uh and tonight was the first dunk. uh of the season for him. Um you know, he’s tried a couple times. He’s gone up in traffic and and pulled it back and been fouled or, you know, not able to execute it. So, I don’t think it’s like there’s there’s there’s no lift there. But, it does seem if if if there isn’t something lacking in his legs right now, he seems to be conserving uh or, you know, some of that energy where normally he would be making more of an effort to go, you know, to go up and and and throw it down. he hasn’t been, but also he just really hasn’t needed to. There’s maybe like one or two situations all year I can think of like, oh, he should have he should have he should have, you know, thrown that one down. It’s not affecting his ability to score at all. But it is definitely noticeable. What were your what was your takeaway there just in watching him and then just his his his answer to you? I think because he had this offseason knee surgery from the beginning of the year, I was like, “Okay, this plagued him.” And obviously like meniscus tears are always something that you don’t know exactly how the player is going to bounce back. So from the jump, I was like, “Okay, like how is he looking?” And then the hamstring thing kind of threw a wrench in it because then it became unclear if like is that what’s really limiting him? My understanding from the couple times that I’ve asked him about how he’s feeling physically, it’s not that he can’t dunk or he can’t jump or he’s limited physically. it’s more that he is being cautious because of the risk of reinjury with a hamstring tweak. Um that’s what he explained at least earlier in the season that within the first few weeks of the season he was worried so he was making certain movements or avoiding certain movements. Um which was also kind of what he was doing last year with the knee where he was avoiding certain movements. So I don’t think he’s 100%. I mentioned I mean are these guys ever 100%? I don’t know. But you can see that there are moments where he just lays it in on the break where Jaylen of two years ago 1,000% dunks it. But it doesn’t really matter because he still makes the layup, right? Um but I I do think tonight it was good to see him like throw one down. And he has been looking better to me over the past like week or two than he did the first week or two of the season. What are we three weeks out from the injury? Something like that. Maybe three weeks and two days if I have the math right. Yeah. Um but he’s had hamstring things before. So, I think it’s also it’s being cautious and he really does want to miss time and all of that. So, I mean, he’s looked great. He’s getting to his spot. He has the lift that I don’t think he had last year throughout the playoffs and later in the season, but I still like sometimes I forget how explosive he can be. Like, if we think about like prime Jaylen Brown, like he had a certain athleticism that I still don’t think we’ve really seen yet. So, um he said it himself. I mean, I think he was kind of surprised to hear that it was his first dunk of the year because like that’s very much been a big part of his game. I think what we’re missing from him right now is the transition game and that’s probably where he’s lost his effectiveness from this if we’re going to look at the numbers here because in the half court he’s been great pick and roll he’s been outstanding. Um came in tonight the 25th percentile in transition which as we said we thought we’d see more speed more pace more effectiveness from him in the open court. that hasn’t really been there and I don’t know if that’s because they’ve struggled on the boards or he just hasn’t been able to push the pace at times here but you know when we’re looking at this offense right now know and it had like the defense has been great the offense has struggled to begin this year and it’s it’s the reason that they’re four and six right now I think the missing element right now is that transition game that pace that we thought we’d see this year and whether it’s because they have fallen in old habits or you know Jaylen hasn’t been able to push the ball as much as he would be a full health like that just hasn’t been there and I do you have any idea why that might be? Yeah. I mean to be honest with you like I think maybe I’m at faults here too but like I was all excited about the transition game from training camp like how much they talked about it and it sounds really good but they don’t really have a ton of transition players. like they don’t really have a ton of guys that have done this and everybody I thought they did who from this current roster that I thought they had more athleticism. I thought they had more speed. Simons may not um Pritchard certainly loves to run. I think White likes to White likes to get out and run. Um for sure. I don’t get why we haven’t seen it and Joe has almost relented the couple last couple times he’s talked about it. Like someone asked him after last game, “What’s the difference this year? Why are you, you know, what plays to your strengths this year stylistically?” And he was like, “Defensive pressure, offensive rebounding, and a little more pace.” Like he he was like, “Yeah, we’re playing a little bit fast.” He’s been asked, “Is the pace where you want it?” Yeah, you know, we’re we’re kind of getting to where we want to be in the shot clock, but you know, we’re probably a second or two behind where we want to be there. And then he, you know, disparages the pace stat, which I get, I agree with. But when you’re last place in pace, it does say something, which is where they’ve been, right? Yeah. I mean, they haven’t played fast. You don’t need the stats always to to say that. Um, but I I don’t know how much you guys have have covered here, so I don’t want to jump into things that have already been discussed, but No, we’ll we’ll we’ll we’ll start all over. Uh before we do know, I just I got to get a couple things out of the way, and then you can get to your get to your uh point about the game here. Some super chats here. Uh uh Cool Chay 84 throwing in 20 for uh Kada. Kada has been great. Uh the Garza hat not our future starter. Someone please Celtics Pride Garza and hold him hostage. So that’s a movie Noah. Uh so Joe doesn’t play him. Please God play my not at the five more Walsh. Our front court is hot garbage. Yeah. And thank you for the donation guys. Uh and uh and we do appreciate it. Let’s throw this up. Action Benz Jaylen has to learn to be scrawny and pathetic and play with no pride like Brunson or SGA. Those guys live at the line with far less contact. Honestly, Noah, that’s kind of just a tongue-in-cheek way of saying exactly what you were saying is the physical guys get fewer calls because they’re strong and they’re initiating contact and they muscle through it and they’re not flopping and they’re not trying to buy fouls. And that’s the thing, he’s a tank. He’s not trying to buy fouls at all. Uh, you know, for sure. Uh Roland uh Roland 24, can we stop yapping how wide open our shots are? Okay, I I’ll I’ll stop. Uh and Jay, cancel Roman got the 45% field goal 353 but no 53s talking about the game approach for tonight. Thank you guys there three attempts. They did. They were uh under 40 right now. Thank you guys here for uh donating. You see it up on the screen. You can support the garden uh report with super chat donations. The uh proceeds are distributed to the hosts of the show and uh you know while it’s not expected, it is certainly welcome and we do appreciate it. So feel free to go ahead uh and uh and donate. We’ll put we’ll put your comment on the screen and we’ll talk about it and give you a shout out. But we do thank you very much. So Noah, yeah, you can start all over uh wherever you want to go in this game. We’ve covered most of it. So uh what was what’s on your mind? Yeah, I think the one of the things that I’ll say is this team, you know, I don’t think Kada played like a great game today relative to a couple of the previous ones, but when he’s off the floor, like it has been a big struggle. Like it there’s no denying it that when he’s off the floor, it’s they’re looking for solutions. I think Luca Garza struggled in this one. Um, I think him and Anthony Simons coming in together defensively it, you know, midway through that first quarter has routinely been a a spot where I see like a defensive decrease in what this team is capable of. And honestly, I think Anthony Simons plays very hard. I think he wants to play the right way and he wants to buy into winning and all that, but he keeps making these little mistakes that just other guys in the starting lineup and guys like Jordan and Ugo just haven’t been making. So every time those two guys are on the court together, I feel like this team is giving up quite a bit on the defensive end. And that goes, that’s counter to their identity and kind of what they’re trying to do. So I don’t, you know, I think they both bring things to the game that are important. In that boat, too. Simon’s Garc, but they have been playing as a trio. Um, they’ve been playing together and I think No, there no one’s no one you can hide one, you can’t hide all three. Yeah. So, I I’m not in the business of really critiquing rotations because I think there’s a lot that goes into it that I don’t even see, especially for the first time around. But off of my initial instinct, like seeing those three coming in together, like it continuously has kind of taken away a little bit from their identity of what they’re what they seem to be trying to do. It’s not it’s not a critique, Noah. I think it’s just I think they might just have, right? It’s the reality, right? And so, you know, we did talk about that earlier is Kada for all of his imperfections, the number his onoff numbers are undeniable, but the bigger issue with Kada is that the the the the drop off the value over the next guy is so and look, we thought everybody, you know, uh we thought the entire big man rotation was going to be a problem and Kada has been a a real pleasant surprise, but it Now it’s even more stark. The difference between him and the next man up is enormous. And Garza, Garza is borderline unplayable. And like look, this was a fear. You know, when you’re bringing in guys look and and and look what they’ve done between Garza, Buché, May not maybe even throw in Walsh and then Hugo is 19 years old. It was as well and and Tilman. it was possible. All of those guys were unplayable. So, the fact that you’re getting very good contributions out of May not Ugo’s minutes have been great. You know, when he’s coming in and Walsh the last two games, just straight up energy and his rebounding and just being active has given them a huge boost two games in a row. All of those are positives that could have gone in the other direction. But you do have a couple of issues. The Bush is completely buried right now. If you know, Tilman, he can make a comeback. I feel like we’ll see. Maybe Tilman. Tilman, you’re not going to get much there. We’re just talking about guys who might slide in. Tilman wasn’t here tonight, by the way. Tilman was not. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Just Yeah. And the other is Garza. I’m just saying who you might pick from. So the drop is the drop is huge there. I think you’re always going to That’s why they’ve had those brutal second quarters, right? Um you often times you just get that massive dip there when those guys come out. And we asked after last game, Noah, like can he play more? and they did tonight. And I don’t know, did you feel like the 30 minutes is what caused the misplay up and some of the mistakes from him at the end there? Not necessarily. I, you know, I talked I asked Joe about a couple things related to Kada pregame one about the Ned rating thing and I do think he said it himself. You know, Kada has been a lot better recently than he was even at preseason and training camp. Like he’s been on an upward trajectory which for Joe that’s very specific feedback. You he doesn’t usually say stuff like that about players. So I think that they are he is gaining his trust more and he is trying to kind of play play him more and more. He also said later in a different question that I asked him that the way that they’re trying to play like it is impossible to have long stints and so that’s been everybody obviously somebody like Jaylen Brown played 36 minutes tonight but Jaylen doesn’t play at 100% speed the entire time right Jaylen knows how to kind of I don’t want to say load manage but like he’s a veteran right he knows how to he knows how to kind of pick his spots and moments on the court. So, I think with Kada, it’s more of a a wind and a like I think he they probably would want him to play a little bit more if he could. Um, but they’re also matching him up with like who he’s going up against and opposing team center and all of that. But 30 minutes from him tonight is great. I’d love to see that continue. And the fact that he continues to be a positive in the plus minus a game, a game that they lose by what 13, he was a plus seven and he was a part of that fourth quarter group that led up. So, he’s This is only the second time ever by the way that he hit 30. I’ll say on and I’ll just say on Kada like he makes a lot of mistakes still like tonight feels like you know he didn’t have a great game. I completely understand why Joe is so hard on him and why Joe is like obsessed with bringing out the best version of him because I really think he can be a very good basketball player. Like it feels like it’s right there and the things that he does well, the dynamic that he brings to this team, nobody else comes close to doing. Um, and I still think like he cleans up a few of these mistakes that he routinely makes. Like there’s a couple mistakes that he makes that same kind of mistake every single game and it feels fixable. So regardless big picture like they found a good player here. Whether he’s going to be a guy that plays 30 minutes a night in the NBA for the next five years or not, I don’t know. Like that remains remains an open question. But I really like a lot of what he’s doing even in nights like tonight where I don’t think he played a perfect game. Yeah. I mean Yeah. and even his imperfect games, it’s it ends up the results end up being better than what they look like sometimes. Um and and tonight was an example. And again, a lot of those numbers I think kind of really dipped in that fourth quarter. I think I I tweeted um with about halfway through the third quarter um you know, all of the energy guys had the best plus minus on the team for the Celtics. And it was at that point Kada plus 16, Walsh plus 13, Minot plus 12, and Ugo plus 11. Kada and Minot who were in there for that fourth quarter collapse went all the way down. Uh you know Kada down to plus seven. May not ended up in negative territory. He was there uh for a lot of that stuff. And again you can pin the entire swing of the game on those guys screw-ups there. Uh with it’s a one-point game and then May not throws it in the back court. That turns into a three going the other way on that turnover. Uh the Kada missed Bunny and then the take foul situation. and just crushing crushing mistakes from those guys. But you wouldn’t be in the game without them uh if they without the efforts that they gave you uh in the early part of it. So Noah, as you told Joe, uh the game wasn’t lost there. It was lost wherever, you know, I don’t know how I don’t know how that all works, but um you know, well, what’s what’s funny is that I know it’s like the plays honestly, they were up by one. May my not had a great hustle play to get a loose ball. Recovered that was right in front of us. recovered that loose ball into throws it over. Yeah. Who was it? Anthony Black, I think. I turned to Jack in that moment and they were down only down by one. I was like, I feel like the game was just lost. Like it’s you could feel it. Like it was the definition of a momentum play. And it’s not his fault. I mean, he it was a hustle play that he, you know, he made a they made the wrong decision on, but they just can’t afford that at all right now. And there were some earlier in the game as well. Peyton Pritchard was saying that he had some in this game that he felt earlier in the game were kind of kind of turning the momentum. Um, which speaking of, have we talked about Peyton Pritchard? Uh, we talked about how people talked about the bench. Are are you guys serious? I’m not the people here feel. You know what? Let’s not talk about the chat is the chat is the chat. I wanted your thoughts on it. I I I don’t understand it how it’s still a conversation here. But I think the question is how do you get I’ll tell you why it’s a conversation. I’ll tell you why it’s a conversation. two games he’s picked up two quick fouls, gone to the bench, and it’s been a it’s been bad for the team. Yeah. Here’s why it’s a conversation. Here’s why Joe is a subject of of uh of uh criticism as well. It’s just people struggling with the reality of them not being as good as they want them to be and just saying change it for the sake of changing it and not necessarily due to one person. Um, and so it’s well, it must be Joe really, you know, like I I don’t know that there is a secret to the rotations here that Joe is going to unlock. I think he’s just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks. And and certainly Payton Pritchard’s not part of the problem here. So, the idea that you’re going to switch him out uh is silly. I gotta tell you, Noah, the jail the Derek White hate and slander is insane for for a guy who was for a guy who’s considered I would have thought the most infallible member of the Celtics over the last couple of years. The most beloved, he can do no wrong. Plays the game the right way. People are ready to people are ready to run out of town. Who are you most concerned about? I ran a poll. Who you most concerned about? Four people on the ballot and White got 60% of the vote. So people are losing their but people have lost and that’s and I think the Derek White thing I don’t know if that’s hate or if that’s people being so high on him going into the season that anything outside of like excellence was disappointing but he’s he actually has looked better these last few games he has you know what did he have 16 and 10 tonight two steals a block like he seven of 16 I mean the three-point shooting continues to be a struggle for him but I I think I actually think he’s looked a lot better the last like two games than the three or four prior to that but I understand I think with Derek what it is is that this fan base just believes in him so much like people here you know and people in Boston think that he’s one of the best guard shooting guards in the NBA I think right and so seeing him come out to the slow start everybody was like wait a second is he just has he just been dependent on Tatum’s gravity like is that everything about him and it’s somewhere in the middle I think maybe maybe he’s not the shot the shot creator that some people thought he was but for the most part I think it’s he’s in a slump that he’ll come out of the same way that project has come out of his Yeah I think People are just dying to see Simons get going. And I in this game, if we’re just talking about this one specifically here, I I don’t understand how you would get a net plus from moving Simons ahead of Pritchard when Pritchard had a great game in a game where they sat Simons for almost the entire first half. And I do think that’s not the best play by Joe there. Like, I get you want to go bigger. I get you wanted to get something out of Ugo and Walsh who was playing decently there. But you’re in the process of trying to integrate Simons and get him comfortable and find out where things are going to work for him here. And I just what are you getting out of sitting him the entire first half? I I don’t understand that. I don’t think Simon’s struggles are related to the fact that he’s buried behind Pritchard. I think Simon’s just in a vacuum hasn’t been utilized enough. Yeah, I think there’s the offensive questions like this is a guy that can score a whole lot more points than 11. Um, and it was good to see him find a rhythm in that, you know, fourth quarter. I think he scored all 11 points in the first five minutes. But, you know, Joe Simons himself said that the reason that he got pulled was more because of the energy the other guys were bringing. Um, and Joe when I asked him about it said he pretty much just wants him to be aggressive, but my read on it is that he came in and made a bunch of mistakes and he fouls a lot and a lot of times they’re costly fouls and he didn’t make, you know, he made a couple defensive errors and they they don’t want that. Like I think that just that that’s what he was minus 11. Why is he being held to that standard? What do you I mean I think I think everybody is who else has been pulled for two like a two minute and a half among the main guys this year. I mean is he one of the main guys? That’s I don’t know. Well that’s if he’s not it’s a mistake. There’s my one criticism is we’re insane at this point if we think he’s not with and Jordan Walsh. He’s your second most talented scorer uh right now. You want to argue between him and Pritchard, that’s fine. But like, and he’s a guy you need what he brings. So, you got to find a way to get it. He’s not a you’re in my doghouse and you’re on the bench guy. He’s just not one of those guys. He’s an imperfect player on a team that is is lacking offensive punch and talent. You can’t he’s got to be a guy who plays back in the game. Yeah. Like it’s insane to play him two minutes in a game. Insane to me. He’s not one of those guys. Like he just isn’t. That’s that’s misuse. That’s bordering on malpractice. Especially when you want to play a three-point heavy style. And I get it, Noah. Like we’ve talked a lot about he needs to play better defensively. They’ve been tough on him. That sort of stuff. And I think that’s gotten more out of him. And I guess you could argue maybe sitting in the first half set up a better second, but I guess he Yeah, I threw Baylor on there only based off of preseason expectations and the fact that he’s been an absolute zero. I think Pritchard’s I I don’t know if people are still concerned about Pritchard, but I took him off that screen. That’s interesting to me here. 65% Derek White. Wow. Anyway, part of it is probably Derrick White’s face when he makes mistakes. What? I thought that was going in a different direction cuz he looks sad. That was kind of an unserious comment, but you know what I mean? I worry about him. Like you remember him taking that press conference where he had the hood on and he was like it invokes it invokes like an empathy in fans or like uh you know I’m worried about him like cheer up that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. But he’s been he’s been quietly get feeling looking better. So I think it’ll come around like the same way I feel like I I noticed Pritchard’s improvement a couple games before like really came to the surface. Look, 16-10, one turnover is one of the primary. It’s the same thing. He’s got he’s got a 5 to1 assist to turnover ratio this year. He’s just shooting. He’s he’s forcing his shot. He’s he’s he’s struggling to find his rhythm. Uh and and the shot’s not going in. The rest of it is not gloom and doom bad. He’s just he’s being tasked with being the number two scorer on a team when that’s probably not what’s natural for him. He’s a give the game what it needs sort of thing. He’s the type of guy that can go off for 25 and 30 points every once in a while, but that’s just not his game. His game is being an all-around complete player that makes a smart play and the smart read and plays good defense and good team defense and he’s, you know, uh, you know, all of that stuff and then also scores and also has been shooting the three ball extremely well the last couple of years. that went away this year. But again, a lot of it can be attributed to just not having as much talent on the floor around him and being forced to do stuff on his own. Um, closing thoughts before we wrap it, we’re we’re we’re past the 90minute mark. Noah, final thoughts. Um, you know, Pritchard said postgame, I don’t know if you I don’t think you guys played a sound, but he said that, you know, two they they think they should have won the Philly game and the Jazz game and they’d be six and four right now and people would kind of be feeling different. Like that’s where they’re at. Uh the reality is I don’t you know I don’t know if this record is going to hold like below 500 you can’t really it’s not a great record but I do think that some of the bright spots out of tonight are and just in general like it’s good to see some stuff out of Jordan. I thought again today he was a big part of the swing in that second quarter. He made some mistakes later in the game but I thought two games in a row now he has been come he has come in and really done his job well and we hadn’t really seen that in the first two years of his career. So, some of the younger guys, Jaylen kind of alluded to it, but some of the there’s some guys here that have really impressed. Um, and there’s some good like I could see how this year ends and even if they underperform my own expectations. I had them in 45 wins, like there are some developmental stories that I’m continuing to see some good progress on and tonight was another night where I think we you could see some of those strides. Yeah. You hope some of that stuff’s consistent. What did he say this morning? He’s fighting for his life. You asked that whether he’s fighting for his life out there. I mean, I am fighting for my life and I don’t even know what I was doing out there. It’s tough to have that feeling like where after you’ve been buried for so long. And John, you’ve made that point, too, that at some point this season, you are going to have to try to see what those guy what you have in those guys. So, I’m glad he got more run tonight, even if it seemingly did come at the cost of Simon’s minutes. Um, so that’s a tough balance for them to strike right now. Trying to stay above water, trying to have a good season here, and trying to get the development. I actually think they’ve struck it decently to this point by at least prioritizing Ugo minutes and then starting to mix in the Walsh ones a little bit here. The Charman stuff’s been tough, but um it’s it’s it’s tough, man. Like they and I don’t know where you’re at, Noah, but I am getting a little discouraged right now at just how little room for error there is here. How many guys are stretched so thin? They’ve blown four games I think they could have had. Go ahead. I know. But again, I just I think we’re still looking at it wrong. Like I still They’re playing well, John. They’re just not capitalizing. I know. But again, I still think we’re looking at it wrong. Like I I doesn’t matter. Like I I don’t know that six and four versus four and six changes anything. It ultimately comes down to did you draft a good player in Ugo? Let’s find out. And anything you see that’s positive there is great. Did you find a steal in May not? Great. That’s awesome. Can Baylor play at all? Is Jordan Walsh savable? Great. Those are great. You’re f You’re trying to figure out who’s who’s going forward with me when this team has a chance to be good again. I just don’t care if they’re six and four or four and six. Now, I’m not going to get frustrated over a missed opportunity on a win or a loss. This is not a team that has any chance of doing anything in the playoffs or going deep this year. And I think once you start looking at it through that lens, you can focus more on the developmental stuff and all the other things and draw the positives and we can all just do you got Boston day after podcasts talking about the positive things that we saw here because that’s all that’s going to matter at the end of the day. And that’s not a jab at you, Noah. That’s actually the proper way to look at stuff is this guy sucks, get rid of him. This guy’s great or this guy’s a keeper or developing Kada. So, where we’re stuck at are are we going for wins or are we going for like I don’t want to see Kada sent to the bench because he didn’t do a thing. I want him to learn through his mistakes. I want to see these guys play through stuff. I want to see them be tested and pushed a little bit and develop and accelerate their development a little bit more. I I’m less concerned with, you know, finding the right combo of players that’s going to result in a win. That’s it. I think that’s a healthy outlook. Um, you know, big picture. I keep thinking there’s like two storylines every game. There’s the big picture. Who looks like they’re a piece of the future? How does Jaylen look as far as, you know, we didn’t know how the knee thing was going to affect him? He looks like he’s back to his old self for the most part. Kada rotation player. Josh, I love what we’ve seen out of him overall this season. Like, I think there’s that. At the same time, you know, fans are watching specific basketball games. We’re here, you know, I’m here on the road. Everybody’s frustrated. Everybody’s down for these losses. Um, and I still think that they are in that zone where they could be six and four, they could be seven and three right now if they had executed better in a couple of these games. And so I can’t totally discount the outcome as much as it’s different than past years where it’s like they’re trying to get the number one seed and and expectations are skyh high. Like I still think that within all of that and and that’s what maybe the one place where I differ from you is pulling Kada, pulling Simons. It’s not like Joe is trying to stunt Kada’s development. I think that’s the tool that he uses to coach Kada. Whether or not it resonates, I can only go off what the players say, but and he hasn’t owed them much to share. Sure. You think Baylor You think Baylor and Simons meant like are are dealing with with the yo-yo aspect of things? Well, right now mentally, I mean, I don’t know. But at the end of the day, like I I love, you know, Baylor is one of the guys that I was I enjoyed watching a lot last year. And as much as I’d love to have seen him play tonight, like Jordan Walsh got 20 minutes and Powzer got 20 minutes and Ugo got nine. And I like that Ugo’s with the team and I don’t really want to see him go to Maine too much, but it there’s only so many minutes to go around ultimately. So I as much as I want to see Baylor play, like he’s gonna who is he playing over my heart, there’s going to be times this year where guys are out with injuries, too. Like right now, this team has been fully healthy all year. Um, so I’m not really worried about Baylor getting a DMP because he’ll have everybody’s gonna get minutes this year, aren’t they? Yeah, everybody’s gonna get and and there’s going to be guys there’s been no load management this year in the schedule, right? And that’s why like they do owe Jay’s not Jaylen’s not one thing I’ve gathered, Jaylen’s not going to sit unless he absolutely has to. And I know you don’t give a I know you don’t give a damn about this, John, and maybe you shouldn’t, but they do owe it to the veterans to try to stay above water, compete, make the playoffs initially if things go sideways. If what what’s like twice this record here? Eight and uh 12 and then eventually getting to like 12 and uh 18. Like the further that goes along, the more this front office is going to look at it and make some decisions, adjust some things. Like as much as Joe’s drilling in on this right now, and I don’t know how you feel about this, Noah, you can uh correct me if I’m wrong, but the the coaching staff is going all in on trying to win right now and figure this thing out and make the best of this. We said it from the start. That’s their job. The front office is taking the long play here, and they’re going to continue to make decisions for 2027. As the left hand has to talk to the right, though, Bobby, that’s the problem. I said this at the beginning of the year and this is I’ve always wondered and this is one of my major concerns if this is a developmental year in the eyes of management and Joe’s just in win now mode and he’s going to play all of his veterans you know 78 games and 37 minutes a night and with no rest and then you know keep keep some of the younger guys on the bench because they’re not ready for prime time yet then you’re not getting what you want out of this year. you’re getting you’re trying to squeeze an extra win or two out of what’s being considered a loss season by management and at the expense of developing players that that has to be communicated down with the understanding that you’re okay that when you give a guy an extension like Missoula just got that’s kind of the wink wink you’re safe don’t worry about it and that’s what they did so if that is how it’s going to go I don’t think we’ll see it until later 30 games, 40 games, 50 games in, but they’re not going to start the season that way. And again, I’ll say it, I feel like they’ve balanced trying to win with getting some of those guys minutes. Like, they put Walsh in again tonight. They try to string that thing along. Ugo’s been a consistent part of the rotation. Um, might not join the starting lineup. Kada’s playing starting minutes every night. Like, they are more often than not utilizing the younger players because that’s what’s on the roster. There’s not a lot of veteran talent here that they can lean on and rely on. So, some of it’s pretty natural. Like, they’re not just going to in November start putting Ugo and Walsh and in the starting lineup. Like, that’ll happen in March and April if that’s where the season goes. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. Yep. All right. Well, we’ve got another one of these on Sunday. We’ll be back. Noah’s staying out there in Orlando. I’ve been told it’s going to be cold, Noah. No, colder. Somebody said somebody said it’s going to drop into the 40s, but you know, I don’t know. What city? What was the winter weather city you went to that was the coldest that was the coldest place you’d ever been last year? We were frigid in Oklahoma. You went Bobby Oklahoma. Oh my god. Oh my god. I just got 30 windchill. That’s what it was. Oh my god. 30 windchill. The good thing is this this trip’s going to Philly, so I already packed with like winter clothes, too. So, I’m ready to I’m ready to deal with whatever deep freeze coming. That one’s going to be cold. Uh, thank you. Thank you everyone in the chat again. Keeping it civil. Uh, we’re not tearing each other apart yet. I think that that’s great. Um, good conversation. No, we’re we’re okay. Everybody’s okay. I think I think people are seeing what what’s happening. the Simon Pritchard thing is going to turn into a a little I don’t think that’s going to people won’t froth at the mouth over that Joe Joe is going to get the most of it whether he deserves it or not because that’s just what people do. Um and and and it is what it is. But by the way, after you got mad at me on media day, I haven’t asked once about that, but it’s coming. Yeah. Uh once again, u shout out to our sponsors, Prize Picks, number one daily fantasy sports app in all of North America. Download that prize picks app. Use code CLNS. Get 50 in your lineups when you play your first $5 lineup. Pick more, pick less. It’s that easy. Once again, download the app codes 50 in your lineups when you play your first $5 lineup. And Omaha Stakes, you want to get some for yourself or send some as a present heading into the uh winter holidays, you can do that now. Use code Patriots at checkout. Get $35 off when you order at omahastakkes.com, which currently has an early Black Friday sale of 50% off sitewide with an additional 20% off on select items. Use code Patriots at checkout for $35 off. Terms do apply. The Celtics NBA Cup chances take a hit tonight with a 12310 loss. Group play here. There’s still a shot if they win it and run it up on Brooklyn. We’ll see what happens here. But they’re back in Orlando uh on Sunday. What are the other two cup games? They have Philly, Orlando, Brooklyn. Is there another or it’s three? Detroit. Sure. Detroit. Detroit. Detroit. Detroit’s the other opponent. Yeah. So, they got a shot. They still have a shot. Bobby’s The dream is alive for Bobby, who’s who takes this more seriously than anybody else I know. Um nobody’s asked Joe or any of the players one question about the cup, by the way. Yeah, it’s like an open secret. Yeah. Anyway, thank you guys again for hanging out with us. We will see you on Sunday. Follow along with Noah Dzel on SB Nation, Celtics blog, Bobby Manning, clsdmedia.com. Uh, subscribe, turn on those notifications as well to our YouTube channels here and check it out. And I’m sure you’re going to get a You got Boston tomorrow on the channel as well because Noah has plenty of there. There were a lot of positives. this one. There were quite a few actually despite the loss. I actually liked a lot a lot of what I saw tonight as well. So check out Noah for that as well. We will see you guys next time. Take care.
The Orlando Magic beat the Boston Celtics 123–110, handing Boston a tough loss on the road. The Garden Report goes LIVE right after Celtics vs. Magic as John Zannis, Bobby Manning, and Sherrod Blakely break down the game, what went wrong, and what’s next for Boston. Noa Dalzell joins from Orlando with postgame reaction and player sound.
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11 comments
Jo Gottsta Go
Why isn’t Simon’s starting over Pritchard?
We are on pace for 30 wins which is perfect for the draft. A top 3 pick would almost guarantee another 5 year window with the jays
The Magic looked awful. This was their first game home after a long road trip and teams ofyen are a little flat, but still they were super slow. Banchero couldn't move. Looked like he was stuck in the mud.
JB dunked. Maybe getting his spring back.
Feel sorry for Suggs, nothing like before the injury. Maybe he'll make a full recovery, shame if he doesn't cuz he was one of the best yng players in the league.
Boston Celtics is Collapsed since Kristaps Porzingis and Jayson Tatum have injury. That's it Team is gone!
Who had Orlando on the money line… seems like Minot n neemi did
Pacers are doing it right. Imagine they get Dybansta next to Halliburton next year?
Damn you guys r on 🔥 . Great show. It’s been awhile. To Be fair. It’s not just your show but great talking points by John. and to add to his point, we are only as good as our bigs
Minnot has been spacing the floor vertically for them. He is running a lot, dunking a lot and the game prior, bro played the most minutes. All in all, I choke his mistake up to the good ol soccer saying …."tired legs and tired minds." Same goes for Neemi!….
btw, good job y'all–y'all put on a great game breakdown!!
John is such an embarrassing hack, my lord. Propping up White’s A/TO ratio to shit on Brown is a joke
Great show guys. CLNS is not sending Bobby on the road to cover this version of the Celtics.