Todd McLellan: Navigating Life as an NHL Head Coach

Todd McLellan: Navigating Life as an NHL Head Coach

Welcome everybody to another episode of the conversation line brought to you by Figer Law. I’m Danielle Bruce alongside the Red Wings radio play-by-play announcer Ken Kell. His first episode of the year. Our guest though was Todd Mlen. Great conversation. We talked a lot about hockey, of course, but we learned a lot about what Todd likes outside of hockey, too. And one of the things is baseball, his second favorite sport. You like baseball a lot, too, right? Yeah, I do, Daniela. And of course, uh, I played high school baseball, one year of college baseball at Wayne State, but you and I were talking, uh, a couple years ago about we had our 50th reunion for my high school team that won the Catholic League championship 1973 at the Old Tiger Stadium and I had an opportunity with my teammates to play on the field and actually had a pretty good day. Went three for four, scored the winning run in the game. We shut out our lady of the Lakes 5 nothing. So, yeah, I love baseball. What position did you play? I was an outfielder. I played center field that game. Yep. You could run then. Uh I covered a lot of ground. And if you look at me now, I can’t run to first base, the old knees, you know what I mean? But uh no, it was fun. And you know, uh I also in college at Wayne State, uh I also dabbled in catching. We needed a a catcher because our catcher got hurt. And uh I said, “I can catch, you know, and then so I ended up catching three or four games.” And I thought that was really cool because you’re really into the game with the pitcher and when you’re an outfielder, you’re flipping grass around. You’re waiting for a fly ball to come out to you. There’s a lot of dead time out there, right? Your mind’s thinking different. I see you getting easily distracted. You know, you’re scratching the grass and you know, you’re not always in the game, but when you’re a catcher, you’re always in the game because every pitch in it’s between you and the and the pitcher. Yeah. Yeah. You’re definitely in it. Also talked a little bit about lake life and we know you like the lake life. Did you have a good summer out there? Yeah, I did. I know you like getting out on the lake. I love the lake. Lake St. Clair is probably my favorite. I was a little busy with baseball this year myself, but yeah, I I love getting out on the lake. The playbyplay, it’s a good time out there. Yeah, the playbyplay is running good. Needs some maintenance work, but uh that’s how boats are, right? You just throw cash in it and uh every that’s that they’re expensive, but they’re great on a 90 degree day out in the middle of Lake St. Clair. So Ken’s expensive hobby is boating. Todd Mlen talks us talks to us about one of his expensive hobbies too that you’ll hear a little bit later. That was pretty fun. But Ken, when it comes to this Red Wings team, which obviously we’re going to talk a lot about in this episode, what have been your early impressions? Uh, I guess consistency and and um, you know, we’ve seen some inconsistent play with this Redwing team. They’re like Jackal and Hyde. It seems like some game they’re playing great, the fivegame win streak, and then other times they’re not playing great, the 7-2 loss to the New York Islanders or the 4-2 loss to the Buffalo Sabres. So, I think it’s a growing process with this team and and I think that’s what drives the coaches crazy because they know they can play a certain way and they can be successful, but it doesn’t always happen that way. Yeah, they definitely have had the ups and downs. Todd Mlen has been great so far about kind of picking those coaching moments too, right? The other obvious one I can think of from this season was right after opening night. A disappointing performance at home against the Canadians and Todd Mlullen calls out his team and you see them turn it around. But Ken, you’re going to have some of those moments with a team where you’re infusing youth the way the Red Wings are right now, but they have to learn from it, grow from it, and get better as the season goes on. Well, you’re right. And there’s not one team that starts the season and is going to win all 80, you know, two games, right? It’s just not going to happen. But what you want to see from your team is growing within the team throughout the entire year. And the team by the end of the year will be totally different, hopefully in a good way, than at the start of the season. So, um I I think it’s a little more difficult when you have younger players on the team because they’re looking for direction and um you know, they’re looking for some help from the veteran players and might take them some time to get things going. But hopefully by midseason, you know, they understand what they need to do from the coaching staff. They understand what to what to do as a player and they can meld all that together and then you start going on a roll and you start winning a lot of hockey games. Todd also told us who his favorite players were to ever coach. And you know, sometimes coaches are hesitant to answer this, you know, because they don’t want to call. He he no problem. He answered it like, I know who my favorite players were to coach, and I’m going to answer that with confidence. I’m not going to give it away, but I want to ask Ken, who were your favorite players to watch, even if it’s not a Redwing, who were your favorite players to watch? Well, my all-time favorite is Gordy How, and I was fortunate enough, I’m old enough, to go back to his last two or three years with the Red Wings back in the late 60s, early 70s. And he was just a fantastic player to watch. He could do it all. And even at an an older age, he still had the smarts and the ability to play the game and be successful. And he could do it all. He he was a right-handed shot, but sometimes he’d switch the stick over, and they had straight blades back then, and he could shoot it left-handed, you know. Um he could he could fight, he could do the things that uh other people can’t do. Uh he could control the game and if you gave him a little shot, you’re going to pay for it. And uh he was just a great player to watch. And you know, just think of all the years he played. I mean, he played so many years in the National Hockey League and was effective. He was my all-time favorite. That’s what’s interesting about a player like that because you you play through so many different eras of hockey, right? And the game is always changing. It’s still changing. I bet he could still play. Gordy, how prime in this league? Gordy. Gordy was unbelievable. And and you know, he’s a great teammate, too. If you look at or ask other players that he played with, u they would tell you the same thing that he was just a fabulous teammate and would do anything for you. I just remember a quick story. Billy Day played on the Red Wings back in the late 50s and in the 60s and and uh he needed one more goal at the end of the season to get a bonus. And Gordy just told him at the beginning of the game, and he knew it. He knew he needed that one goal. He says, “Just keep your stick on the ice and get in front of the net.” He says, “I’ll get you the puck and I’ll get you that bonus.” You know, so sure enough, Billy Days in front of the net and he got his goal. He got his bonus. And everybody was happy. That’s amazing. I love it. What a great teammate that is. Yeah, absolutely. Let’s get to Todd Mlen, everybody. Dylan Lin. [Applause] Oh my goodness. You’re not Dunk. You’re Ken Kell. You’re a hockey guy. I don’t know anything about this in Chicago. Here they go. Oh my god. With the overtime winner. Welcome everybody to another episode of the conversation line brought to you by Figer Law. I’m Daniellea Bruce alongside the Red Wings radio announcer Ken Kel. And joining us today, the Red Wings head coach, Todd Mlen. Todd, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. He must not have scared you off too much last year because you decided to come back for more. So, well, Ken Ken has scared me a few times, but I’m willing to come back for you. Okay, great. I’ll take that one. We’ll take that one. I want to start with this. This team is interesting because of how the mix of of the veterans and the youth and it’s like some extreme youth and then there’s some in the middle range and just a very young team and you’ve got some veterans too. Have you coached a team with this much of a mix before? You know, probably somewhere along the line, but it doesn’t jump out at me right away. What’s what’s unique about our team is that the kids, when I say kids, they’re young men, they’re not kids. Uh, but the youngsters that are in the lineup are actually contributing and becoming factors. Some of the other teams that I’ve been on, other than Conor McDavid, Leon Dryside, all those type of players, the youngsters come in and they’re just scrapping to stay in the lineup and they’re not really factors. You’re trying to train them and and get them to become better players, but they’re just surviving. Uh for the most part, our young players that have come in have done a real good job at excelling. And um the older players uh have accepted them. They’ve been really good with them. Our team doesn’t have much in the middle. Uh we don’t have a lot of 25, 26, 28 year old players. We’re either a little bit older with the senior group and um a little bit younger with the junior group. And what’s it like, Todd? Uh let’s say you have a a a loss that you’re not pleased with the way the players played. uh like that uh New York Islander game several games ago. Uh how do you react? Are you able to sleep at night or are you one of those guys that can go to sleep and put it aside till the next time you practice? Well, you know what it if I say yes to that then I make it about me and it’s not about me. It’s not about the coaching stuff. It’s about the players and and it’s really similar to parenting. I think you uh uh my boys at home or if you guys have families, you you work with your your kids, you send them to school, you hope they’re learning and doing the things they need to do, and then boom, something happens and uh an event occurs and you’re either really happy with how they deal with it or you’re disappointed. And that’s no different than coaching this group of players. We we try and train them. We try and set them up for success. Uh we turn them loose and they get to go play the game they love. and it doesn’t always go their way. Um, sometimes it’s because they’re illprepared and we’re responsible for that as well. Sometimes it just doesn’t work for them. They’re not feeling good physically and then we’ve got to evaluate that way. And sometimes the other team or the test is just too hard on that given day. So, we have to be um really aware of of what caused uh the problem, if it is a problem, or what caused the the A+ test and make sure that we recognize it and deal with those those issues. e either positive or negative. Just from observing what you’ve been able to do with this team and your time here so far, to me, it feels like you’re very good at picking your coaching moments, right? And deciding where to to to put your opinion in or not to or go harder, go not too hard. But I’m wondering how you developed the style that you have. I’ve probably evolved over time and I think parenting has helped me like it uh you know old school coaching used to be very rigid. It was my way or the highway and I was taught that when I was a player. It was this is how you did it and if you don’t like it basically get the hell out. Yeah. And but that doesn’t work anymore. These these young people are really talented and um they’re creative. They want to be creative. They want to be seen and exposed and uh we have to allow some of that. But yet we have to give them guidelines. And I believe that the coaches create the moment or pardon me, the players create the moments for us. We just have to recognize them. And that comes again, I think, from being a family at home. There’s moments that you need to pay attention to at home, and you have to address them now. And and it’s not always negatives. You have to catch people doing things right. And if I caught our our boys at home doing something right, I I better catch it. I better acknowledge it because I know they’re going to do it again. and and I think that’s maybe bringing the parenting world into the the coaching world. Um, at least that’s how I approach it. Do you see more players now when you’re giving them assignments in practice, uh, asking why as opposed to okay, I’m just going to do it because the coach says we’re going to do it. Um, you know, and and coaching has changed from this is how we’re going to do it to this is how and why we’re going to do it because the players ask those questions. Now, if they understand why we’re doing something, you have a way better chance at success. If if they’re just doing something, uh a task that may be not real meaningful to them, uh it’s going to come out empty. Uh but if it means something to them and they know they’re doing it for a reason, there’s a a carrot at the end for them, uh they’ll put everything they have into it because there’s a reward and um the the why part’s really important to the players now and they’re allowed to ask that question. In the past, never happened that way. Was that an adjustment for you? Not so much as having a reason why you’re doing things, but having to explain it at a practice or in a game or wherever it may be early early in my coaching career. Yes. Because I grew up with the shut up and just play era. Um and we had to live through that. I I think my early era was where it started to change. Players began to ask more questions. Uh we encouraged them to. Um, I often think about what it was like when I was a player and not being suppressed, but not being willing to ask why or or how come. Um, probably set me back someday. So, I wanted to open that up for the players and allow them to do that. Now, if it’s continual and it becomes um an overburdening why, sometimes that’s on the player, too. They they know the answer and quit asking the question. Get just get the job done. Todd, is it exciting to you to be able to coach this Detroit Redwing team knowing what they’ve gone through in the past and the challenge of you bringing them to the threshold of perhaps making the playoffs and going further? Well, what I think what’s unique about my situation is I was here for really good years in the past and the people I’m working with now were they played significant parts in that. um whether they were you know Steve was playing my first year and then he became a manager but Draper, Maltby, all these players that are around and have roles in the organization all were part of that time when I was there. So when I come back I re reunite with them and the best communication tools that I have is we can talk about those days. We used to do it like this, but it’s changed a little bit now. Or this, we’re still doing it the same way, and our players are finally getting it. And it makes our relationship a little bit easier. It’s a little easier for um management to understand what I’m talking about because they’ve lived it and played it. Um it’s exciting to come back. Um you know, we’re we’re all pushing for the same goal. It doesn’t matter if you were here in the past or or not, but it’s exciting to come back and try and grow a group and push them through. Um, a little bit like the stock market. You got to you got to hit a certain level and break through. And that’s what we’re we’re trying to do right now. What is it that makes a successful manager, so Steve Eisermanman and coach relationship? So, what makes that a good relationship or how do you strengthen that? Well, communication. And you know, Steve has a job to do, I have a job to do, and as long as we’re communicating, we might not always agree on things like it. It we’ll have debates, we might not agree, uh but if we’re communicating and we’re I’m sharing my honest thoughts with him and he’s willing to accept them and then vice versa, we’ve got a a great relationship. And that’s what goes on right now. Um it gets a little bit hairy uh later on if you lose trust or you don’t believe in each other. Uh but we’re nowhere near that point, but you know, over time, you’ve seen managers and and coaches stay together for many, many years. I’m thinking of uh the New England Patriots. Yeah. You know, they won how many Super Bowls, and that combination of owner and manager and coach, quarterback was there forever, but eventually it can dwindle if if you’re not communicating. Todd, you’ve coached 1,21 games now as we talk. That’s a long time. Uh, I know it gets hairy on the bench at times and it’s really serious, but are there times when you kind of chuckle at something that goes on and and you got to hold it in or something like that? All the time. There’s levity is a real good thing to have sometimes on the bench because it’s just so intense and you can feel the the the tension going one way or the other. And and sometimes we’ll try and find a moment to just lighten it up a bit. uh there’s enough of the of the gruff and the the the the pushing um that sometimes that that moment can you can even get more out of the team or the players. Um and they’re characters. They do some some not so smart things sometimes. And um and we do too. Like we’re the butt of some jokes sometimes too with some of the the crap we pull. Have you seen a So Mickey Redmond goes down there for the third period during broadcast. He’s been having some smelling salts when he goes down there for the third period. And I’m wondering, do you guys notice what he’s doing down there? Well, I remember watching Mickey when I was a kid and there was no such thing as smelling. I mean, it’s didn’t seem to affect him. So, at his age now, I’m not sure why he’s trying it. But, uh, whatever works for the individual. So, good for Mick. They say clears the head. I’m not so sure about that. It does something. Yeah, that’s funny. Um, you mentioned that. Well, you’ve kind of done a couple times comparing coaching to parenting. Did you coach your kids at all? Um, I helped coach my kids. So, um, you know, my boys are different ages, so you’d go on the ice and and you’d help coach and eventually you were taking over the practice, which wasn’t healthy, right? Um, you know, and I always sat back and said, “I’ll support you in practice, but you’re the coach. You you take charge.” Uh, one of the things that I found about coaching um, Tyson in particular, the older one, was that when practice wasn’t going while they were young kids and and you had to be um, maybe the disciplinarian at that moment, he always took it out on him because he didn’t want to take it out on anybody else’s kids. And maybe he was the one actually doing it right. I’d have to explain on the way home in the car like he’d be pouting and I’d have to tell him like that was for the team like or no, it was your it was, you know, clean it up. you didn’t you didn’t work hard enough, but a lot of times he took the brunt for the team and I have to remind him of that. Todd, what’s the biggest challenge when you coach youngsters and we’ve seen a lot go through the organization now, but um you know, veterans have their own mo I guess, but what about the youngsters? Well, all those veterans were youngsters at one time and they they just grow up. So, everybody has their first day at something and and then from there they just chip on and and the evolution of the game and everything else that’s gone into it, I don’t know if it makes it easier or harder on the players because they uh they’re so well trained, they’re so strong, uh they get psychological help, they get nutritional help. Um, and it’s not just them, it’s the whole league. So, everybody’s keeping up to each other and it happens so fast. Uh but the ones that have courage, the ones that are willing to to put themselves out there, uh tend to have a little more success and uh you know, the ones that get caught up in in the emotional part of it and self-evaluation that’s not real positive, uh they fall off a little bit and need to go get a reset. But that’s uh you know, that’s what the youth goes through. Now, have you found yourself at all having to give any more of your attention to some of the younger guys on this team? I think you always have to. um you know, they’re they’re they’re trying to figure out how to play hockey in the NHL. They’re trying to figure out life away from the rink and they’re trying to figure out their teammates and all of a sudden these these four or five guys walk in in suits that control their ice time and it can be very intimidating. So, um we don’t want them in that type of environment. We want them in an environment where we can go to them and they feel comfortable enough to sit with us and we can take them through the good and the bad in their game. um you know, so we have to be aware of that. The older players, they’ve gone through it already and that’s why you get all that experience. You can be a lot more direct. Uh you don’t worry about hurting feelings quite as much and uh they usually respond right away. The younger ones, you need a little more coddling. Probably not a good word, but a little more handling, I guess, is is the word. Um to get them through moments. You know, a lot of youngsters have made the team this year and one in particular, EMTT Finny. Here’s a guy was drafted seventh overall. He starts the season on the top line with Lucas Raymond, Dylan Larkin. What have you seen from EMTT Finny that uh maybe you didn’t see from youngsters in the past? Like, how special is he? Trust. It’s a real simple word, but we approach the game and we look for, you know, 20 players start the night and not everybody’s having a good night. So, you’re looking for the the 12, 15 players that you can really trust that night and you play them a little bit more maybe than others. And Evans been able to provide that. Um, I didn’t know we were going to get that from him. I knew that he was a very hardworking young man. Um, he’s had to scrap for everything he’s ever got. He was a seventh round draft pick. He learned how to play at a young age on both sides of the puck. That’s where the trust comes in. Um, a lot of the superstar players that are coming into the league right now have tremendous offensive skills. They’re evaluated. They self-evaluate based on it. They get rewarded for it. Uh, but there’s way more to the game than just skating to the other end and shooting it in the net. There’s you’ve got to be able to defend. You got to be able to game manage. You got to be able to play with teammates. Um, you know, in all different situations and and EMTT checks the boxes on that side of the puck as well. Have you found yourself using data and analytics more as a coach? I’m I I think it’s different for everybody, right? The amount you want to use, but there’s so much that seems to be at your fingertips now. There is. And it’s it’s endless. Um, and hockeyy’s a really tough game to quantify analytics to. It’s it’s it’s always moving and it’s never the same thing twice. When you take baseball, for example, the the Tigers are playing and that pitcher gets to the mound and he faces a batter, he gets to restart every pitch and analytically he can go through what the count is. He can go through what the the batter’s tendencies are. I know they’ve got um you know cards in their hats now or in their pockets and that’s all analytically driven. Our players don’t have time other than maybe on a face off to pull a card out and we never would um to analytically look at anything. And the analytics are very valuable, but that they can’t chart fatigue. They can’t chart, you know, what’s happening at the end of a shift versus the beginning of a shift. They can’t separate uh referees influence. They it can’t separate ice conditions. Uh there’s so many things that analytics can give you, but yet it misses out on some of the the intangibles. You and Trent Yanni have a pretty good relationship. How far back does that grow and go and and how are you able to bounce ideas off of him to make things work? Yeah, we Jons and I have been together for a long long time. We played junior hockey together and then we separated. We went our own ways. He was fortunate enough to play a lot of years in the NHL while while I was coaching and junior and um when he was done he became a coach and and our paths connected again and we’ve been together off and on for a lot of years. Um the the connectivity between the two is is an honest connection. It’s almost like we’re married too. Like we just we can we converse and we tell each other uh I think what we need to hear and uh he keeps me organized. He keeps me aware. like there’s been many times he’s just telling me, “You’re not seeing it. You know, you’re you don’t see it.” And I need that. Head coaches need that. They don’t need people that always just agree. They need people to keep them focused and direct and organized and honest with themselves. And I think I can do that for him, too. So, the the relationship’s been strong. Um there’s days where he doesn’t like me. There’s days I don’t like him. That happens. But we always drive home together. So, it seems to be a good marriage. Not that you guys have a ton of free time, but how much of it do you spend with him? Do you guys do anything outside of hockey? Um, we do. Our our wives have have a relationship, too. We’ve been together for so long. Um, you know, so we will uh we’ll meet up in Birmingham for dinner on the odd night. We’re date night and the four of us want to go out. Um, you know, but other than that, he’s got his life. He’s got two grandkids that are unreal. when they come to town, we we want to steal them or at least participate with them and until we get our own. You know, Todd, everybody has hobbies and uh I know last time we talked, you mentioned you had a bourbon collection. Uh how did all that start and what’s your bourbon collection look like? Well, it’s I don’t know how it started because I I I don’t really drink that much. Uh but I like collecting it and I’ve acquired a taste for it. I’ve I’ve enjoy the taste now. Um, you know, probably 10, 12, 15 years ago, I was introduced to it and hated it. Just couldn’t stand the taste of it. Couldn’t believe people would drink this. And then I met a few people that that basically taught me how to drink it. And there there’s a skill to it and the the nose and the tongue and the the finish and all that type of stuff. And and you begin to analyze the flavors and uh it becomes an enjoyable um hobby. But the the the most fun I have is hunting for, you know, particular bottles. It’s hard to find old stuff. It’s hard to find unique stuff, uh, the rare stuff. And when you go on the road, you can find communities that, um, you know, maybe don’t value it as as much, and you can find old dusty bottles somewhere, and you meet a lot of people along the way. So, it’s it’s been uh been a good hobby for me. What’s your favorite one you’ve ever found or that you have? Oh, you know what? I’m a I’m a mixers fan, but my very first bourbon that I actually liked was Elmer T. Lee. So, it’s a Buffalo Trace uh um production. Uh it’s very easy drinking. It’s got real good I like caramel type flavor. Uh I’m not a big um scotch fan. I’m not a I I don’t enjoy the Pete very much. Uh so I’m bourbon one rise too and then then the odd scotch here or there, but Elmer Tele was probably my early favorite. So I continue to uh to tell people that’s my favorite now. Is there a bottle that’s uh that’s really aged that you have that uh you look at yourself and you go like, “Wow, how did I pick that one up?” Well, I have a couple bottles that um have specific dates. Like I have um an OFC 96. It’s an oldfashioned copper 96 and and that’s the birth date of or birth year of of my first son, Tyson. Uh they haven’t produced the 99 for whatever reason. I’m looking for that. But those are some sentimental collecting ones where maybe when the grad kids come or there’s a a real unique um milestone, a certain wedding anniversary or we’re celebrating something, we’ll we’ll drink that together. If they ever get an interest in it, they uh I’m not sure they’ll go there, but we’ll see what happens. That’s funny. Um your son Tyson is playing still, right? Is he in Germany? He is. He’s still playing. Uh him and his wife are in Cockurn, Germany. Uh they’ve been over in Europe I think for five or six years now. Uh he went over right after college and they they have a great life there. They uh he gets to do something he loves. Uh she works remotely uh back in the US but she can work from there. Has a great job. And they are foodies. They’re travelers. So anytime they get uh time off they’re they’re going to another country. And they’ve been everywhere from Dubai to uh you know the Swiss Alps to Hungary. You name it. They’ve seen almost every country over there in their time and good for them. They speak German at all or uh they uh they do uh they can speak it. They can’t write it real well. Uh they can understand simple German enough to get by. And the German people are really good. They if you make any type of effort to to speak German, they’ll jump right into the English right away and help you out. So, it’s they’re really good that way. Have you been over there to visit? We’ve been over three times maybe when I’ve been jobless. We we quickly uh jump on a plane and we go over and and uh and visit them. Um unreal experience for for my wife and I and uh what was unique this summer is we took the whole family on a on a summer vacation. So both boys, both wives and and Debbie and myself went and that was a bucket list thing. I will never forget that. Now you’re a guy that likes to get out on the lake, too. You like to boat and be out in the sunshine in the offseason. Yeah, we some are in Colona, British Columbia, which is um a very nice spot. The hockey world knows it. There’s there’s that area. There’s the Mscoas in Ontario and and there’s a place now in in Idaho that that a lot of hockey people tend to go to. And I happen to be in Colona. We live on the water. We’re very lucky, fortunate, and spend a lot of time in the boat, a lot of surfing and not so much fishing, but just a bottle of wine in the evening and the sunsets for my wife and I. It’s It’s very relaxing and soothing. Did you know he has a boat? Did he tell you? I I haven’t been invited and I’m not sure I’m going to take him up on it. He calls it the playbyplay. It’s got a good name on the name on the back of it. Lake St. Clair. Have you been out there? I You know what? When we won the cup in ’08, we I think we went on a boat ride. Yeah. Uh on Lake St. Clair. Um don’t remember much about it, but I know we were on a boat somewhere out there. He doesn’t remember much of his boat rides out there. I don’t remember much of the summer, that’s for sure. You mentioned baseball, too, and I wanted to talk about this with you. Is it your second favorite sport next to hockey? I would say it is. Um, you know, again, that I had an opportunity to play baseball when I was young, and we we were in a strong baseball community. And then um when I coached in Houston, uh my oldest was was old enough at that time to play ball and some of the ex- major league players were coaching and the the facilities and the and the leagues they played in. It was incredible how well trained they were. It reminded me of hockey in Canada, to tell you the truth. Um but overall, I I really enjoy the game. I think uh it’s a lot like chess on a on a grass field. uh the way they move people around. The way they set things up. Uh it’s not always about just this pitch, it’s about two pitches later. It’s about uh you know thinking two or three moves ahead and spending some time with AJ. Just listening to him set up his lineup and how he he plans things. That’s a chess match. And um you know he believes that he can get two or three moves ahead and and eventually um take somebody’s king. Would you ever consider taking batting practice over at Kria Park? No, not a chance. I’ll go watch it. You and me both. We’re going to be on the sidelines. I’ll fall apart if I start when I’m over there. I want one of their pitchers, nobody has taken me up on it yet, to just throw a pitch to me. I’m not going to swing. I just want to see it. I want to see a fast ball coming in at 100 miles an hour like it does. Well, it’s coming. It’s It’s coming. I’d probably jump out of the way. And they’re probably all afraid one might get away. That’s what Exactly. I’m I’m I sign whatever I need to just They would happily throw at Kent. That’s right. Exactly. So, did you play baseball? I did. Yeah. When I was What position? I was usually third baseman. All right. Yeah. So, power hitter or No, no power hitter. No. No. All right. I’m going to pivot back to hockey a little bit. 100 years of Red Wings hockey and we’ve talked about you experienced some of the the history of this organization and so many of management and everybody that’s still involved here has experienced the really good times. What are some of your favorite memories of being a part of the Red Wings? Well, the number one thing would be uh obviously the winning the cup in08. The uh you know the way we went about it uh my three years here probably the best team we had was my first year in ’05. Like I don’t know we won 56 57 games and and then the next year we may have been even a little bit better but Kenny kept changing things a little bit and we finally put a team together that had all the ingredients to to push all the way through. Um, and it wasn’t adding more goal scoring, it was bringing in Dallas Drake, Darren Mccardi came back. Um, you know, those types of players. Brian Molski was a really good addition. Brad Stewart, adding those guys to the team that just completed the the recipe, if you will. So, that was really good. But the people are where most of the memories go to. Um, Mr. How, Mr. Dovakio, Mr. Lindsay walking through the locker room. uh McCrimmans, you know, both Mccrims were around uh uh the organization a little bit every now and then. Um Pat Verbique, Steve, like so many people that were involved in the game, Mr. um you know, just Mr. and Mrs. I at the time and they they would walk around and be part of the team. And uh I tell people that my first stint here was like going to Harvard. It was a Harvard of hockey. if you came here and you came here with your eyes open and you’re willing to listen. It was an opportunity to learn as an assistant coach and um I hope I took advantage of that because there’s still stuff I use from those days. Well, it’s interesting because after you left the Red Wings, you went to San Jose and you had a really good year. I think your team won over 50 games that first year. Um did you expect that type of success going to another team? And I was really really fortunate to take that team over in San Jose. Um, not often do does a young inexperienced head coach get uh a Stanley Cup caliber type team to coach. And uh the the teams there in San Jose were tremendous teams. Reminded me a lot of my stint here and we just couldn’t break through for whatever reason. Uh but there were dominant players there. There were great people in the organization. Uh the guys were close. They had u you know they really believed they could win. Um and it just didn’t happen. But it it reminded me a lot of what we were doing here. I’m going ask you a deep question. Why is it that you love coaching? Well, the the competitive spirit that’s in somebody that’s done it for a long time, like it just something seems to keep drawing you back to the game. And like I tell my wife and my kids, I’m going to keep doing this while I still have that and still enjoy it. Um I still enjoy coming to the rink. Why? Because I think I can help people. I think I can make a difference. And it’s rewarding to see that happen in front of you. That’s the reward that we get as coaches. Um so maybe I still enjoy that. I think I do. Um I like the chess the chess match of of hockey too. It’s a little bit like that. Um you know, I think we still can make a difference when when I don’t think that anymore, it’ll be time. What about your game prep and and when does that all start? Let’s say you’re going to play a team, you know, in a couple of days. How does that all work? Tell the fans how that would work. Well, we’re we’re always ahead. So, um you know, we just played St. Louis and um there’s a lot of work and prep that goes into that game, but that started two or three games prior. We have an assistant coach that’s working on pre-scouting their team uh days ahead of that. And uh so they gather up all the important information. We shared amongst the staff. We begin to plan for that. Now, we put some of that into play in practice. Here’s what we’re going to see. This is what it’s going to feel like. U St. Louis, for an example, this is this is what makes them unique and we’ll practice and and try and work to prepare for their their team, but we’re also trying to work on our game. Um, you know, we’ll come in the morning and we’ll have some meetings in the morning. Um, pregame skate sometimes, sometimes it’s optional. We’ll come back in the afternoon, prepare for the evening, have more meetings, and then when we get on the bench, all our work’s basically done. We just got to make sure we try and get the right people on the ice. And um a lot of teams have the father’s or the mother’s trip. And I remember taking my dad on the first trip and got up at 6:00 in the morning or 5:30 or whatever it was. And I was going to the rink and he’s going, “Where are you going? I’m going to work.” And he goes, “Well, already the game’s tonight.” And I said, “All our work is done way before the game even starts.” And and even for him, who’s been around the game for a long time, he didn’t understand the amount of hours and the prep that goes into it. I’m sure it’s the same with the with the Lions and and the Tigers and the Pistons are playing and those those coaching staffs, not always the head coach, but the coaching staffs put in an enormous amount of hours just to try and prepare the players to give them every edge they possibly can. How about a practice day? So, let’s say practice is at noon. When are you here? Uh, we’re up I’m up real early, so I I can’t sleep, so I’m up at 5 sometimes at home. I’ll do my work. I’ll pick Trent up in the morning. We’ll drive down together. We’ll get here around 6:30 and then we’ll continue to work. Uh I believe that when the players arrive at the ar at the arena for whatever time that is, whether we practice at 11:00 or noon, we should be there to service them right away. So we should be done all of our work, we should be able to walk around with computers or or clips and show them and explain things to them. Uh if they have questions, we should be prepared to answer them, not sitting in our offices doing our own work. So we we’re morning workers. We get ready for the team and then we plan we always plan practice together. We have a real good job, real good idea of what everybody’s job is during practice. Uh we believe in pace in practice, moving from drill to drill as quick as we can to keep that that energy up. When practice is over, uh we all have jobs to do real quick. But when when we’re done, go home. I don’t want the coaches just sitting here because it’s 4:30 in the afternoon. You shouldn’t go home till 5. I don’t believe in that. If you get your work done, go home, get some rest, and and get away from it a little bit. So, uh, we’re early morning to postpractice and and done for the day. You’ve coached a lot of great players in your time in the National Hockey League. Just for example, Conor McDavid, Leon Dryidle, Andre Kopitar, Joe Thornton, Joe Pavvelski, the list goes on and on. Not to mention some of the players that played here in Detroit. But if you could bunch all those players together, what’s a common trait that those great players have? They love being at the rink. They love hockey. Um, not every player loves it. Sometimes they’re doing it, they get rewarded real well, and it’s it’s a it’s hard for some some individuals. Um, you know, but then it’s it becomes a job. These superstars just love being at the rink. It’s never doesn’t seem like work to them. And then they have minds that capture things. They can tell you Wayne Gretzky, you can you can sit around and have a bourbon with him and he can tell you about a play in 1988 and the detail in it and then all of a sudden you see it up on hockey night in Canada and he’s described it perfectly and it happened 35 years ago. They have superior minds for the game too. So you you comp you combine the love of the game, the mind for the game, and then the passion and and the skill that goes with it, it makes them really unique. Yeah, it’s funny you say that. We did a little game with Patrick Kane when he was on the podcast. Just giving him like a date and the opponent and he knew the goal that he scored, right? And probably knows how and how it was set up and and it may not be a significant one. It was one of his 485 or whatever he has. Um but he’ll remember it and those special players have that. That’s what about uh the division you’re in right now. I mean, it seems like it’s a pretty tough division, the Atlantic division. And there’s teams that really haven’t made the playoffs like Buffalo in the past. Maybe Montreal, they made it last year, but but this is a tough division. How do you approach going into this year with the teams that you have in your division? It is a very tough division. Um it has been and it’ll continue to be. Teams are going to evolve whether they they have to rebuild or retool and you drop down a little bit, but as soon as that happens, somebody replaces them and takes their spot. So it’s competitive every night. um you know, the the Tampa Bay Lightning, the Florida Panthers. They’ve won a lot of cups over the last few years. They’re still in our division. Um you know, and then there’s the upandcomers that are are really pushing. We hope that we’re one of those groups and looking to knock off the the big boys, but uh we don’t necessarily talk about it. We don’t say, “Hey, we got this many games against these teams.” Uh the season’s so long. We try and stay in the presence present and uh and just deal with things one day at a time. And um players are well aware of the standings. Um if they tell you they’re not looking, they’re lying. They know where they they sit. They know which teams are having good years and bad years. Uh but does it shouldn’t affect the way we prep or the way we play. We have to play our best every night regardless of who it is. You know, I always say this. I say coaches look at the game different than the fans. Uh and and they do. You watch the game totally different than let’s say Joe Schmo on the street, right? Or how do you see the game? We have to see it different because we are we’re we’re looking at cause and effect really and um goals just don’t happen because of the last pass across the crease. A lot of times it’s happened 200 feet away from your net. Something happened in the offensive zone and it set up the mistake at your net. Um so we have to back things up and we have to look at cause and effect way more than a fan does. Um we we live in the computers. we can move things around and and really look at for patterns, what’s what’s going right, what’s going wrong. When you’re a fan, you get caught up in the excitement and the emotion. So do we as coaches, but you get caught up in that and you don’t always understand cause and effect. Um, you know what the result is and you know whether you’re happy or not with it. Uh, but you can’t always pinpoint what caused it. Okay, last one for you. Who is your favorite player to coach ever and why? my favorite player to coach. Well, there there was two guys that were um really unique. They they taught me maybe more than I taught them. And one played here and he wore number 13. So, Pavats and I was an assistant coach then. So, the assistants tend to stay on the ice with the guys after a little bit more. And it becomes a little more relaxed and you’re working on individual skills. And Palville used to set up drills for for me just to be the the pawn in the drill. And he would tell me to do certain things and he’d tell me to do it harder or slower or faster because he was training himself for moments in the game. And I think that’s another thing that that really unique players do. They know they’re going to have a moment in a game where they have to use a skill and they train for it. Joe Pavvelski was the exact same way. So, those two players train for moments where a lot of players just come to the rink and they whatever the coach tells them to do, they’re doing. Uh, but after practice, pre-practice, both Pavl and um and Joe Pavvelski were inquisitive. They would ask goenders about certain situations and and they would practice those moments and uh I really appreciated that as a coach. Were you always okay with staying there with Pavle? Oh, yeah. Until he he’d make me look silly, but that was okay. Now I’d be in big trouble. Well, Todd, we appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. Great conversation. [Music]

Head coach Todd McLellan sits down with Ken Kal and Daniella Bruce on episode two of The Conversation Line presented by Fieger Law. What are the challenges to coaching a team with a mix of younger players and veterans? How has his experience as an NHL head coach changed over the years? How does he manage relationships with his players and assistant coaches? Additionally, get to know more about Todd’s life off the ice, like his affinity for bourbon and his love of baseball.