How in the world did the Browns lose to the Jets? + Clase & Ortiz are officially in BIG TROUBLE

How in the world did the Browns lose to the Jets? + Clase & Ortiz are officially in BIG TROUBLE

Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Oh yeah. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] Come on. You [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Come [Music] on. [Music] Come on. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Let’s go. Heat. Heat. N. [Music] Come on. Come on. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Let’s go. [Music] Where are you? [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Jay Crawford, Adam the Bull, Garrett Bush, Dustin Fox, Jason Lloyd, Tyus Powell, Plus, you’re loving them. Mikey McNuggets and so many big names, it would take me hours to say all of their names. The ultimate Cleveland sports show starts now. Booya. Booya. The Browns lose the tank bowl. Sunday was a rough day for Cleveland sports. Someone has to convince me they didn’t intentionally lose that game. They didn’t intentionally while Jay finishes his food. I I tell you that’s Yeah, go ahead. You can do the sponsor. Today’s show is brought to you by the Homebuilder Association, a new sponsor of the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. A home for the holidays. You have a chance to make and win a new home or cash prize and help make wishes come true for Makea-Wish Kids with a Home for the Holidays raffle. Visit a home forholidays.org to buy your tickets. Terms and conditions apply. What’s up, guys? Welcome back. Hey, was good. Thank you. Thank good. How was vacation? Terrible. I’m not going to get into the details. I talked about it with the guys. We have a lot to get to. Oh my god. It was It was a It was a rough vacation, but it’s a first world problem. Uh I’m lucky enough to be able to screw this lucky. I’m not lucky. I worked my ass off. There’s enough money to be able to go on vacation. But there’s bigger problems, bigger problems in life, but uh my vacation was I’m sorry to hear it sucked. It happens. What are you going to do? Uh, it doesn’t suck as bad as what yesterday was for Cleveland fans between the Browns and the Guardians. Not a good day. Not a good day at all. Thankfully, Donovan Mitchell was wrapped in bubble wrap yesterday. They had to lose that. They had to try to lose that game, right? They’re really that dumb. No, no, no. They’re that dumb. They’re that incompetent. And give saying they tried to lose gives them an excuse. Like it it excuses their terribleness. And we and I don’t want to do that. That’s wrong. Let’s just dive right into it. Let’s dive into it. and waiting into an empty pool and some browns on the docket. Our discussion to start today’s show is brought to you guys by a homebuilders association. Give big this year with a home for the holidays raffle. You have a chance to win a beautiful new custom home or a cash prize this holiday season and help make wishes come true for Makea-Wish kids with critical illnesses. Raffle proceeds benefit Makea-Wish OKI, which has granted over 22,000 wishes to children facing critical illnesses across Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana since 1983. This year’s house, a customuilt ranch by Pro’s Homes and has three bedrooms, two and a half baths, and a three-car garage. It also includes amazing features like a great room with vated ceilings, an unbelievable kitchen, and a mudroom with open lockers, and a unique pet shower station. One lucky winner will be announced on December 24th. So, get your $100 ticket now. Just visit a home forholidays.org to buy your tickets. That’s a home for the holidays.org. Terms and conditions apply. Maybe that’s how Dylan Gabriel became the quarterback. He’s he’s a Kevin Stfansky was doing Make a Wish. Yeah, possibly. And Dylan Gabriel’s wish was to be an NFL quarterback. I’m trying to figure out they relate. Looks like a wish at this point. I need that 23 and me report. So, what do you make of the game yesterday, guys? We did the postgame show. Dave, we’ve heard your thoughts. Bull, Jason Jay, an ugly ball. I mean, at the end of the day, they lost to a team that made it very evident evident, excuse me, during the week that they have no intention of trying to win. Yeah. Steaming garbage. We got to be careful when we say that cuz players and coaches always want to win. We throw around terms like tanking. Yes. The players and coaches always want to win. You think any of those players want to lose? They played like they wanted to lose yesterday. Well, didn’t didn’t they literally played like they No, the Jets I mean when you give up a a kickoff return and a punt return for a touch, that’s effort to me. It’s like rebounding. Special teams are effort. And they they just gave no effort on either. I watched both of them three times. Yeah, they were they were mailing it in on both of those plays. Everybody. Yeah. I mean, listen, the Browns are a really bad football team. The Jets are a really bad football team. And we them. It it was a terrible game between two terrible teams. It was painful to watch. It was It was high school. Did they finish with any passing yards? High school. Jets finished with 54. Come on, man. Mike, you got that tweet. Come on, man. This is the first game maybe ever since. At least they’ve been keeping stats in 1950. Steve, take the word. Yeah, put this this here you go. How unlike the Jets since 1950, and by the way, it’s since 1950 because I don’t think they know before then. So, this may have never happened before. Teams that have had been 225 and0 when holding opponents to 175 or fewer yards and not turning the ball over. The Browns were the first team to lose in that span per ESPN research. First team, take a bow, boys. 75. Remember the Remember the game they lost to the Jets a couple of years ago? It was It was a very similar thing. The first time we’ve ever seen this happen and it happened. The Browns are kings of of a stat. We are royalty at sucking. That’s what they doubt. No doubt about it. Your son was at the game suffering in person. He did. Oh my god. It went nobody in the stands. It was raining. I ain’t even Listen, I ain’t even I’m going to tell you this. I’m not even source guy cuz you know what I do? I just make my opinion and stand on business. That’s how I feel. I put my research in. I look at the playbook. I look at the film and I’ll make my opinion. But let me just tell you this. Between Sunday at 1:00 and this morning, I have never in my life had my phone, my text messages, my emails, my DMs jump off the off the RTOR scale with people that it ain’t just it ain’t just the people outside. It’s people that’s inside. I’m talking guys that’s that’s playing. I’m talking about former Cleveland Browns, former Browns legends. I’m talking about national former players that are like, I do not understand what the heck the Cleveland Browns are doing. And Kevin Stfansky is clueless about what’s going on. Guys, let’s set the tone real quick. We It’s time to stop playing the games. The games is over. Uh Kevin Stfansky, um this this loss should be the the the final act for Kevin Sansky. They may not get rid of him during the season, but for the fact that you came out of the by-week and this is the type of energy and level that you gave and and you lose to a team and they had 54 yards passing and they traded their best two players. I told you what I was I picked the Browns to win this game cuz I didn’t think that they could come out and take a L like that. But lo and behold, it’s the Cleveland Browns and Kevin Sansky even pulled that off. I also heard from multiple people said that said they’re they are a little upset that even before watching the tape they’re not making any moves before watching the tape the moves are not being made. So here’s the thing too. Hey Kevin fans is going to die on the hill of Dylan Gabriel. We all see it. He’s not a top 100 player. Scouts have already said that. We’ve seen his g his his play on the football field. I I mean at what point are we going to just say enough is enough and just stop the charade? But he’s gonna continue to try them out there. It’s gonna be bad. It’s gonna get nasty against the Baltimore Ravens when that stadium’s half half full. But this regime, I’m tired of seeing and we we need to stop acting like this is it. It is not. It’s time to move on. You know what was funny? When Gabriel threw that second touchdown, that floater to Judy on the broadcast. Spiro Diaz goes, “Man, what a great pass.” I’m like, I actually thought it was a good pass. I thought it was a good pass. It was I thought it was a good pass. You did? It was a good adjustment by by what you see but when you see it from the back all 22 angle he threw it to a spot where only Judy can exploded. Now the velocity the velocity is another velocity on that. The velocity but I like the placement. It was a touch pass though. I don’t think he was trying to rip that one. And I didn’t think I didn’t think Dylan played well yesterday. I’m not trying to defend his own throw. I thought it was a three. That was a pretty damn good throw. I I don’t agree with you. I thought that ball was floating out there and wobbling. Mike, go look at it again. We can’t show you all 22 on the show or we get copyright infringed. So, I’ll show you when we’re done with the show. I need to look it up. It’s out there on Twitter. I’ll But I thought it was a good job by Judy, too. Coming back to get the ball. You explain it perfectly. Good play by both of them. You want to explain it again because So, so I like the play design. It was like a over route and it was almost like a deep zig route. They ran that route with uh with uh Tyreek Hill uh in in I believe when he was playing with route against the 49ers. And so basically he runs across and and then he pivots and runs back to the pot the corner of the end zone. And so with that throw now the defender is on his back. So Dylan Gabriel did a nice job. It looked like it’s under thrown, but he put a little air on it so that the defender the only place that that that football could be caught was by Jerry Judy and he has the defender on his back. So for him to even break it up, he has to go over his back and it’s a pass interference. So, I thought it was good placement and I like the play design and I thought he put it in the area where where he got the ball. I also thought it was a really nice play to Harold Fannon on the quarter route that he put it right in the basket. He caught it right like this. So, he had a few throws, but he’s few and far between. All right. Well, I mean, I’ll look it over again. It look didn’t look like that good a throw to me. There wasn’t much good beside that. The fan and throw was a good throw. Uh Jerry Judy played well. He’s one of the few guys that played well in this game. Quinn Sean Judkins played well, although the yards per attempt again are bad because the offensive line Jack Conquin is terrible by the way offensive line. I mean, he’s had a ton of injuries. He’s still better than the other guys. They got not saying much. Their line is that this is as bad as it’s best. We were arguing before the show who’s worse, Justin Fields or or Dylan Gabriel. I mean, like that’s like arguing which pile of crap is smellier. I mean, I mean, at least Justin Fields hit the he hit the screen pass. Dylan Gabri that screen pass to Corley he miss he threw it in the front row of the stands there’s nobody in the screen go back and watch all 22 that is 60 yards he could have walked down the field he made a lot of throws that there were no chance to be not even not even near some of them I asked who’s he throwing that where is that ball going all that said I mean he was bad he was there’s no question about it but he’s still not the reason they’re not winning he’s part of the reason they’re not winning definitely part of it but to me the only so much. There’s so much else wrong. It’s like, well, the bathroom burned down, but so did the whole house. Everything is bad. The offensive line, I did think Jerry Judy played a decent game yesterday. I I thought I saw more effort from him yesterday than I’d seen from him in a long time. Maybe going back to the Denver game last year, but in general, the offensive line looks like they give up on most plays. They stink. The the defense I I hate to point even point to the defense because they gifted 14 points, right? But still, I don’t I don’t think you should allow the Jets. No, it’s a tie game. You gota you got you got to do more. They’re they’re being asked to do more than they should be asked to do, right? But again, you can see when they let go of the rope when they say we can’t stop this. Yeah. Go ahead, Jason. This This was the first because I’ve been pretty consistent all year. It’s a bad team. They’re going to lose a lot of games. It’s not a good team. There are winnable games on the schedule. Sure. This was one of them. You had to win this game. This was the first time where I walked away going, there may not be anything left to salvage. Like it’s the infection has overtaken the body. Yes. And it’s down to the Titans, the Raiders, and because you can’t but you also have to look at it like the owner came out and told you we’re not very good. We’re not going to be very good. They’re not expecting to win. So when that’s the bar that you set, you’re going to live up to it or down to it. And and just remember they You also said you can’t lose three win just three games. That’s exactly but they went one and 31 and brought the coach back. M I just remember they went one and 31 and brought the coach back. I don’t see a world where Kevin Stfansky coaches the Browns next year. Well, here’s the thing and I told I was talking to this about with Adam and Mike a couple weeks ago, I’m going to give you an aneurysm because you have to decide at the end of this season. If you’re going to take a quarterback, okay, in this draft, you have to either commit to this regime for three more years or fire them all now. Uh fire them all now. Yeah, let’s go with the fire quarterback. They’re taking the quarterback in the next draft. But the worst thing you can do, the worst thing you can do is bring them back. Have them select the quarterback and then and then fire him. It happens. It happens across the league because they whiffed on I again Jackson Dart. I don’t know. I don’t know. But I know more about him than I know about anybody else right now in that rookie class. Cam Ward is doing what? But it’s already happened to Cam. It has happened to Camach midway through first season. That’s why you start the quarterback’s growth. It happened here with Baker. Yes. And it just happens over and over and over and over. You bring in the quarterback and then you fire the regime and then the new GM or the new head coach comes in and goes, “Well, I didn’t pick that guy. I don’t want that guy.” And that’s how you get on this cycle. So either you commit to these guys for three years. That’s why they got a fire for three years. That is why they got a fire or sweep out of them. All of them general manager as well. But the problem is I don’t think my opinion, right? Just strictly my opinion. I don’t think Jimmy trusts himself to pick somebody else. Okay, then then you know what? And now and now he lost his north star in Paul de Bodesta. I’m telling you north star to hell. I’m telling you, follow me, boys. But the thing that Paul was the one thing I think he was good at was identifying coaches. I do think he was good at that. That’s the one thing I think he was good at. So now we’re going back to the corn ferry search firms. We’re going back to you. No you know who the Browns need. I’ll take picking our next coach over Jimmy. I was thinking about this this I was thinking about this this morning. They need their version of Bob Meyers. Okay. And I don’t know who that guy is. And it’s too late. It’s too bad that they’re like three months late on Bob because Bob is sensational. And Bob, of course, was the GM of the Warriors, but he’s more than that. And now he’s like the right-hand man to Josh Harris, right, with Washington. He’s part of the Blitzer Harris where he’s got his finger in all the teams, but like an agent who knows the league, who knows these guys, who really knows these guys like the Aron Telum and the Bob Myers on the NBA side. They need somebody like that to come in and and and Jimmy say, “Here, just just do it. I’m done. I’m done. just you do it and I’ll write the checks. Well, he’ll never do that. I don’t think he’ll ever do that. No, he’ll never do that. I don’t think he’ll ever do that. He did. He picked the wrong guy. But that’s why I’m You need someone who who intimately knows this entire league. And it’s not going and finding Mike Holgrren or Bill Parcels or Bill Bichic. That’s not You got to find You’ve got to find the next Shawn McVey. You’ve got to find a young upandcomer and you’re going to have to give him the keys to the castle. And I did have an NFL someone who covers the NFL for a living tell me within the last week that in that this time it’s different because I think everybody is kind of the assumption that Kevin’s gone and that where where does this organization go from here the point was made that you’re building a new stadium. That’s what makes it different this time. It’s it’s completely different. This is the most critical time in the Browns history because if they get this one wrong and they take heart hot garbage from the lakefront to Brook Park, this this franchise is done. They’re done, guys. I don’t know if I want I don’t want to I don’t know if I want somebody learning on a job. I’m I I I might be over learning on a job training. It’s too important. It it is it’s is too you you cannot have somebody that comes in and is a hot shot young dude. It’s my way or the highway. I’m about to put my foot down. All that. I need somebody with some experience level that knows what the heck they looking at. We’ve never hired an experienced coach. Go back and look. Okay. Manini. Although Manini was the previous No, I mean we’ve always hired coaches that are welcome to the NFL and your first coach. Jackson is the only coach they’ve hired that had a previous Jimmy and D since they’ve owned the team, you mean? Or go back 30 years. I mean, go back 30 years. Manini. Oh, Manini, too. Okay, that’s it. Um I mean, but it typically our hire is Let’s give this guy a shot. That’s what they do. More times than not, but they always get it wrong. You know, they had a chance to hire Shanahan. They don’t want to play by his rules. But well, there you’re contradicting yourself because he was that hot young guy at the time. Yeah. So what they get is the hot the the the hot young name that fizzles out when he gets to Cleveland. Well, because that’s what we have three years from now, four years from now, Tommy Reese will be a head coach. And you’re going to say, “Well, we had him in the building.” I don’t know. I don’t know that he will be. So yeah, I think he will. I think he will be. We don’t know if he’ll be any good. I you know, at this point, listen, I here’s the situation. Um the season is a wrap. Once you lost that game though in a fashion that you lost it, these guys are in no way, shape or form ever to be assumed that they their valuation or opinions on players should count. It should be from it’s done. Like the the valuation of any quarterback, you cannot let any of these people be a judgment of any quarterback. It’s not possible. You know, you talked about the disease taking over the body and it’s the culture of losing has taken over the team, right? like the stupid football, the the in the returns are inexcusable. Special teams is just horrible. But even on that last drive, and we know even if the Browns got the ball back, they weren’t going to want to win. No, but you don’t want to penalties on that last drive that were in Especially that last one. The last one. That is the dumbest penalty I’ve ever seen. They were literally laughing at the Browns. They were laughing. There’s no world where the Browns were going to were going to I mean, where the Jets Jets were going to step play. There was never a chance they were going to run a play. that goes right next to uh Dwayne Rudd’s helmet in Browns lore jumping out sides on a fourth down that they were never going to snap and Dwayne Rudd throwing his helmet at the end of the game cost like they are one in one a as far as I’m concerned and by the way such stupid football and and I heard somebody say this on the internet listen at some point Kevin you got to stop running and this is going to help cost you more than anything and I hope in the next stop he understands it you trying to protect these dudes and not say anything against about what happens when asked about that question, you know, it’s not about one play. Yes, it is about one play. It’s about accountability and saying, listen, we cannot play people who are jumping off sides when we know they’re down the distance. We talk about being smart and accountable. We talk about this and they were not smart and they were not accountable. It doesn’t make you look better. That fact that you you you seem to be uh just passive about calling this stuff out. This is this is high school. like high school. This is the part that really gets me because it’s the accountability that or lack thereof that that people two pe two plays in a row. One a defensive holding when it’s third and 14. Guys, don’t you understand a down and distance? The only way they get a first down is if you get a a holding penalty. Why are you And that’s the thing. People have checked out. Oh, the defensive hold. People have checked out. What? Checking out doesn’t mean they get on the podium and say the coach is bad. Check it out means I’m not worried about the consequences. I’m going to play next week or you’re not dialed in to know what the down and distance and what is going to happen. And then instead of everybody else getting on each other in the huddle and be like that’s unacceptable, we still get another chance to get the ball back and then a guy jumps off sides and the whole world laughs at you. That right there is not acceptable even on a high school level. And we’ve lost so much that we are grasping on to anything. the coach, the GM, at least we got this. No, guys, this is the second time in how many weeks that you see coaches on the sideline laughing at you. It was Vable and then it was Glenn this week jumping up celebrating. And if that’s not embarrassing to the owner, if it’s not embarrassing to the organization, it should be embarrassing to the fans. And I wouldn’t show up to do nothing with them on Sunday. I’d leave every seat orange if that’s what they feel like is acceptable. and and the MUN lot, the tickets, uh jerseys, concession. The only way they care about anything about what’s going on on that football field is if you you touch their pockets. And if you want to go, that’s fine. I get it. We want to all want to release in this world. But I’m going just tell you what, that that product that they’re putting out and they told you they was going to put it out and they they made it better. Oh, we’re going to we’re going to try to lose. That’s a fireball offense in itself, trying to lose. And we accepted it. So, no. Yeah. when you go to those games and spend the money for the product, you’re co-signing it. And the to the accountability point, G, uh, boy, the Patriots are a fascinating group. I watched and I I there was some confusion and I reached out to a buddy of mine that covers the Patriots and I even asked, “What the hell’s up with Henderson?” He said, “Well, he’s he’s learning a lesson.” Flipped that switch, didn’t he? He’s learning a lesson. That’s what that’s what’s going on. And yesterday I saw he had 14 for 150 and two touchdowns. Best game by far. And we just talked about how he was in a doghouse, right? And Vrabel made no bones about it. He’s not doing what we need him to do. It’s shots like that across the bow to highly drafted players that come in there and maybe think that they’re more ready than they are and they don’t know what the work schedule is. And then when a coach sends a message like that, it’s not just a message to one player, it’s a message to everybody. Damn, he’s a high draft pick. He came in here, he can’t see the field. He can’t even get on the field. And it’s that’s a lot of Bellich, too. I mean, Belich, I think, lost a Super Bowl because he wanted to make a point. Yeah. He literally lost a Super Bowl because he wanted to make a point. Browner who was sitting on the bench and and and they got torched in the secondary and he was cool with it and apparently he’s like you know and his because his mission is no single player is bigger than the team and at whatever cost you have to send that message and gee I just want I would like to see him come into the news conference and name a player by names I want names cannot happen but he won’t he gives them cover this is the wrong coach he is the wrong coach and I Kevin, personally, I do like him. And I do think as a coordinator, he will find more success in this league, just not here. There’s too many landmines here that you can’t miss. But the one thing that tells me he’s not a head coach is his treatment. How I don’t even want to say he’s a players coach. He’s just blah. Call a guy out. We just fans are so angry after that game. And they want to hear a coach that’s angry, too. Well, you know, it wasn’t just one play that cost. Press conferences are a waste of time to talk to him. Waste of time. When he comes in there just once, Jay, just once. I know it’ll never happen. Just like your point, I wish that the Browns fans would protest. Say it’s gotten to a level where we can’t go inside the stadium anymore. So awesome. I I would love it. I would love it. But people are going to be in their outfits why there’s zero fans inside. And just once, I know it will never happen because you guys have a job to do. Just once. I wish when Kevin walked into the news conference, all of the Cleveland reporters got up and walked out. Why don’t you Why don’t you What are you going to get? Nothing. Yeah. What are you going to get from this guy? A b garbage that you can just rerack from last week. Pull any of his quotes from the Cincinnati game and plug them in. They’re applicable. Just when he walks in and sits down, obviously a very disappointing result. Everybody stands up and leaves. That’d be awesome. walks out. Jason, you got to do it. Lead it. Organize it. Come on, Jay. I don’t even go in there and listen to him. I know you don’t. You don’t waste your time. Jason skips the Stfansky presser stuff with us. He’s the wrong person to ask. We need Zack Jackson or Mary Kay on later. I go I go in the locker room post game. And to be honest with you, that’s where you get your best stuff anyhow. But to be honest with you though, McNuggets, I I hear I hear Zack and Mary Kay and and Daniel asking questions, pertinent questions. Daryl Ryder, he don’t answer He don’t answer yet. You know, he don’t he cares about effort in futility and that’s why the reporters should boycott it. Just walk out. Well, I’m very curious what he’s going to say about Bubba Vent. That question is coming to That’s where we’re going next, guys. FanDuel is the main sponsor for our next topic. The NBA’s back. There’s no better place to get in on the action than with FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Even if you missed the start of the game or want to ride the hot hand, FanDuel has live bets from everything from who will score the next bucket to fourth quarter comebacks. Plus, you can combine your live bets into a same game parlay for a shot at bigger payouts. Right now, FanDuel is giving new customers $300 in bonus bets if their first $5 bet wins. So, head over to fanuel.com/uss to sign up and play your game with FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. G Bush, how in the world do you explain one team giving up back-to-back return touchdowns, one kick return, then a punt return, and there’s been no movement on the job security of one Bubba Ventron? How do you explain it? Um because this is the way it works. Um Kevin Sfansky still has control over his staff and the way it works in the NFL is this. You never This is And I I’ve talked to, you know, former coaches about this uh about, you know, firing people when they’re in the middle of season. And when you’re a head coach, they have a courtesy. So, you don’t want to fire somebody in the middle of the season because that would signify that you are so incompetent that you have to go and leave the building because you’re that bad at your job. So, not many very many head coaches are going to put their coaching tree in that position. So, when things like that happen, they may make some changes after the season. They may make some changes, you know, you know, at at a at a by week uh in terms of play calling or something, but you they don’t do that to people who they have relationships with because that signals in the industry that you you just are incompetent. So that’s the reason Bubba Ventron is still there and and it’s the reason probably nobody on the staff is going to get fired during the middle of the season because it’s frowned upon in the fraternity of coaching. Now, in terms of what is it that what is his merits on doing it or should it be done? Sure, it should have been done. The special teams are horrible. And this is this is one of the microcosms of why the Browns are bad. It’s the small things that add up to taking these L’s. When you give up two backto back touchdowns like that in your special teams, that’s a lack of def detail. It’s a lack of effort and it’s a lack o of want to and understanding and placing an importance on those those those minor things. If you look at it, the defense plays this game. You didn’t have anybody on the Jets that got over one catch. The longest catch was a screen pass to a running back for for 40ome yards. You got an interception. Their quarterback threw for 50 something yards. But you you gave up two backto back touchdowns in the kicking game. Has that ever happened before? I don’t ever I don’t think so. I don’t remember. I saw a stat yesterday. It was the shortest amount of game time elapsed between backtoback punt and kick returns allowed. So I’m sure it’s happened before. They’ve given up two, but yesterday was the shortest amount of game time elapsed. That was the game. What was crazy right after a nice touchdown drive. You’re like, “All right, let’s go. We’re cooking.” the very next play 99. You know, those are those are the things that you know, it’s it’s a hallmark of bad teams like like you can’t this is this is all time bad boy. You you could tell watching the game that it was too bad football teams that they just both teams did did a lot of stupid things. Even a play that seemed smart, I don’t know if anybody else picked up on this. They didn’t mention it on the broadcast when the in that last drive where the Browns had those two terrible penalties. Remember Oh, the slide. the slide by. Yeah, that was a dumb play. The second one. The first one. Why are you sliding now? It’s a two-minute warning. He should have kept running. Kept running. And and they didn’t even say that on the They never said a word about it. Smart. Never said a word about now. His first slide was smart. Yes, the first slide was a good one. But the second time he did it, I’m like, wait, I think he got that confused. He wasn’t aware of the clock. But a good team makes the players aware, I feel like. Did you guys see Drevy Anderson’s second touchdown? I did not. Yes. when he looked at the sidelines, he literally had so much time. He was running down the sidelines and then he wasn’t sure, should I score? Should I go down? He pointed to the sidelines like should I score and they were like crazy. Yeah. Go in. And so he still had time to go in for the touchdown. Tell how fast he was and how much he ran. And it also tells you how scared he is of Rael. He’s like, “Yo, coach, let me know what can I score? Am I allowed to score? Let me just about the game Jonathan Taylor had yesterday. I don’t mean to sidebar us, but this guy a magnificent season. Uh so yeah, I think we I mean Bubba Ventron is if if nobody else gets fired, obviously he’s going to be fired at the end of the year. You know, I I get what you’re saying about coaches don’t love firing coaches during the season. I’d fire him now. That was a disgrable problem with that is most I Who you going to hire? Who you going to I don’t even care. I mean, the Browns return game is so pathetic. There was one play yesterday. Oh, they never get they had one decent return and I can’t remember who it was. Samson penalty and then he ran out of bounds. Yeah, Sam. Well, Samson dropped a I don’t think it was Samson. I think it was uh clearly the other Laridan or how do you say his name? I forgot. Lane. Larvadan. Larvadan. Whatever the hell his name is. He had a return. What does he return? Kicks or punts? I can’t remember. Intentionally ran out of bounds. I don’t remember that. I thought Samson had a decent check. There was one where he got had like 10 yards and he could have gone further instead, but he ran out of bounds. Go back and look at it. Do we have anybody on our team that runs faster than 89 on Madden? No. Isaiah Bond’s supposed to. But he looks like he’s the slowest small guy I’ve ever seen. And Jackson says he’s not an NFL receiver. I gave him three years guaranteed. I mean, because people were banging down his door. You get a contract. You get a undrafted. There’s three years guaranteed. fire. Uh Jay and Bull, you guys weren’t here yesterday, but Jason, you were here last week when we had coach Spencer on and Coach Spencer was really insightful. He was a 2002 special teams coach of the year, won a Super with the Pittsburgh Steelers. And I asked him, “Hey, we get mad at Bubba Ventro when Andre Schmidt misses kicks.” But like Bubba Ventro wasn’t a kicker. How much blame can we put on him for that? He said it’s, you know, sure he’s technically the coach, but that’s not his domain. Well, we don’t blame I don’t blame him for miss kicks. No, just just hear me out. Here I’m going with this. He said he asked us. He said, “What did Bubba Ventron make his living in the NFL doing?” Teams guy. A special teams guy covering kicks. Yeah. And blocking. Yeah. We saw what happened yesterday, right? And now I’m just I’m curious. And Jason, I’m curious because you were there and you heard Coach Spencer kind of talk about it. I understand that changes probably aren’t going to happen mid-season. Even though they could, this just not how they Why are they probably not? I mean, it happens all the time. Guys get fired during the season. Really? I think it’s less common than you think. But if it’s not a headach if a head coach gets blown up there’ll be coaches that go with them. But typically like where what’s your drawing pool? Coordinators don’t usually get fired cuz I I mean Joe Wood should have been fired. They get in the Lions demoted their offensive coordinator cuz Dan Campbell took the play call. The Lions are trying to win. The Lions are a good franchise trying to win. They don’t they’re they don’t they’re not trying to win. So why would you fire a guy like he’s helping them? M like seriously the co again Jason you know the coaches are not trying to lose the coaches are not trying to lose why would you try to lose Listen I used to be in favor of when you were a bad team try like I get it but there’s what look at the teams that are going to pick in the top 10 this year it’s the same teams every year they get high picks every year and they screw them up the Steelers never draft high they get good players the Ravens never draft high get good players the Packers the Patriot like a lot of the one time the Patriots did draft high they drafted Jake May Drake May and now they’re in good shape again. The Tennessee sucked since they fired Vabrael. Saints have sucked every year since Breeze left. The Giants have been terrible for a decade. The Browns have been terrible for four decades. The Jets have been terrible for most of the last six decades. I mean, it’s the same. Doesn’t matter how high they pick. They going to screw it up. We’ve substituted we’ve subst sub substituted one of the most focal parts of what it is to play football in organizations and that is development coaching and scouting. We’ve we’ve we’ve completely thrown that in a trash can just for this lottery ticket of well listen we’re garbage at we don’t understand how to develop but if we get a high enough pick then we don’t need to do our jobs. No it’s still your job to develop even if you get a good player. The Browns have gotten high picks or or had an opportunity to get picks every single year. And what do you do? Half of them don’t make it to the first year contract. Jed Wills, you either make an evaluation on Baker Mayfield that turned out to be wrong, right? You make an evaluation on some of these guys at defensive tackle and you you you pick wrong. You trade down. All these things are on you. So, yeah, you can have a great number one pick, but here’s the thing. All right, draft you a quarterback and then how how are you gonna come back next year with no receivers and no lineman and then say expect different results and expect this it’s going to be the same thing. Can you put up the still again that shows where they currently stand in the draft? I think they’re fourth fourth or fifth. Um currently the fourth pick. Yeah. Does anybody think that there’s a franchise changing player that will be on the board at number four? No. I mean they might end up higher than that but there could be a franchise changing player. I don’t know if there’s going to be a quarterback in the draft every year. No, but what I’m saying is there are great players everywhere. We just can’t seem to find it’s early. It’s early this year, so we don’t know. But I mean, the top two quarterbacks that came out last year, we were told it’s not a great quarterback draft. They’re right back. They’re right back in the bottom five. There they are. Yeah. With their saviors. The top three quarterbacks taking the top three Shook was third, was second, and fairness, he was the second round pick. You know, again, we keep looking at the college ranks and I keep squinting hard to see is there might there be? Well, maybe there will be. We know there could be, but I mean, like it’s not like the year where Burrow was coming out and everybody was saying, “Oh, he’s the number one guy and he’s going to change someone’s life.” Like, I don’t see that guy. It could happen. You’re right, Bullet. It could. But even last year, I mean, two years ago, you know, with Caleb Williams so far has been okay and Jaden Daniels and Drake May, like people had high hopes for that draft class and Bo Knicks. You know what I’m saying? But right now, it doesn’t feel like that’s going to it right now it feels like this year is going to be like last year where it’s a lot of question marks. And we’ve been saying this all along like you can’t just you can’t bank your life if you banking your life on somebody 22 23 coming out saving you when you still have had the lie. You you you don’t have give me here’s what you do. Give me a lineman. Give me a lineman if you want to go back and get you a veteran. Whatever. Give first of all S should be playing tomorrow. That’s first and foremost. Let’s get that out of the way. Second of all, you go get you another veteran and let them cats do what they going to do and and bring back Dylan Gabriel cuz you thought he was a backup anyway. And you go get you the best available lineman. You go give me Cardell tape and then you give me seven more linemen. And guess what? if that you can’t and I’m on a free agent receiver and if you don’t do nothing in 2026, here’s what you can do. You can do what you wanted to do from all all all along. Go get you Arch Manning or one of these other dudes or sellers who’s going back to school. But as far as I’m concerned, it’s malpractice if you run around talking about let’s get another quarterback and run this back with this. It’s it’s it’ll be the same thing and then they’re going to get fired. Yeah. Well, if you have new guys making the pick and they they’re going to get fired. still think the Browns are going to draft a quarterback next year, but who knows? Oh, they are. Well, we’re talking quarterback in our next topic. So, let’s get a reading. Let’s talk about Dylan Gabriel, guys. Dylan Gabriel is brought to us today by Ripling. If you’re a business owner, here’s the truth. SAS promised to make work easier. But now, the average company is buried by hundreds of apps that slow down your teams and they simply don’t work together. That’s not SAS, that’s SAD. Software as a disservice and why you need Rippling. Rippling is the unified platform for HR, payroll, IT, and finance all in one place. They’ve helped millions of businesses replace a mess of disconnected tools with one system designed to give leaders clarity, speed, and control. And right now, you can get 6 months free of Ripley when you go to rippling.com/lockdown NFL. Learn more at rippling.com/lockdon NFL. That is rippling.com/lockdon NFL for 6 months free. Terms and conditions apply. Also, the newsletter is coming out at noon today. If you want to sign up for the newsletter, text the number on your screen 2164351590 to get that free newsletter. All right, guys. Dylan Gabriel threw two touchdowns, did not turn the ball over yesterday. Missed a bunch of throws though, as we have discussed earlier. It was the first time he had played for Tommy Reese as a play caller. Jason, what’ you think of Gabriel coming off the buy with Tommy Reese in his year as a primary play caller? Did he look better, worse, or essentially the same in your opinion? I got to ask. It’s a fair question to ask. No, there was it was exactly what we said last week. What difference is it going to make? It’s the same ingredients. It’s the same material. And yeah, I mean, you know, at times I thought they committed to the run a little bit better. At times I thought they moved the pocket a little bit more. Both things that I expected them to try and do, but for I mean, it is what it is. He’s he’s not a franchise quarterback. It’s unfair the position that they put him in. But this is the position that he’s in. And so you have to grade him as such. But no, it’s he had a couple decent throws, but overall it was about what I expected it to be. It’s silly that he’s still playing at this point. I mean, I I’ve never seen a like, how often does a quarterback get drafted as low as he did and get a quarterback who was drafted even lower? They traded all the venues, right? But that like let’s just see him at this point. What do you got to lose? Yeah, it’s time. What do you got to lose? It’s time. Let the let the winning commence. You want to say, let’s go. You want You play Dylan Gabriel one more game and then you play Shadore the rest of the season. It’s an even amount of games. All right. Whatever. Now you’re looking at it like, okay, do you want Shador’s first start to be against the Raiders? I just don’t care. We don’t care. I don’t care. And they’re not Bears. They’re not grizzly bears. And I’m gonna So Ravens defes stinks. By the way, Shador No, they’ve been better the last few weeks. The best thing about Shidor Sanders is I I think he has a little bit of confidence. I mean, he runs around and does rap songs and has he if he has a bad game, I don’t think he’s going to melt in the shower. No, it’s not about it’s not about his confidence. It’s about trying to give him the best chance to succeed regard I mean, guys with confidence think they can. Okay. So then they going to play him against the Raiders the following week. Maybe I would 100% I can understand why you wouldn’t put him out there against the Ravens. I get it. But we’re going to see the same thing out of Dylan Gabriel. The same thing. Like we don’t need to even watch the game. I can tell you he’s going to complete around 50 to 55% of his passes. He I give him this. He takes care of the football. His touchdown to interception ratio looks good. If you just look at that, you’re like, “Wow, we got something here.” But I would let him play the Ravens game. He had another one yesterday that should have been picked right through the game. He’s had a number of them, but for some reason, maybe because he’s got the lefty spin, they can’t catch them. He should have eight or nine picks. The fact he’s got after this game, um I I I know the Ravens or the Raiders have a great pass rusher and that could turn ugly, but every team’s got a strength. Every The Raiders to me, we’ve got three winnable games left on the schedule. Uh if if he comes out against the Raiders, Sanders. Yeah. and plays well and gets the win, you get excited. You get excited then, okay, you’re going to you’re going to lose against the 49ers, that’s fine. But then against the Titans, like they’re an awful team. They’re the worst team in the NFL. The 49ers aren’t very good either. Like No, they’re not. But I mean, that’s a team that should beat us without problem, right? But I’m that’s I’m just saying like it’s a good it’ll be It’s the NFL. They beat the freaking Packers. You never know. The Dolphins beat the Bills yesterday. The Dolphins saw the Bills. Go figure that one out. Yeah. So, why not just let’s find out what are we doing? You know, you know when you scratch all of the numbers on the lottery ticket and you’re flipping it over cuz some of them have like secret numbers numbers. There’s got to be another number and you just damn I’ve scratched everything on this ticket. I’m It’s not a winner. Well, that was the thing. There’s no more boxes to be scratched. He is what he is. Let’s go to the next ticket. Yeah, that was the thing that uh Kevin, right, Kevin Spencer that we had on Friday. Yes, Kevin Spencer. The thing that he said that was interesting was like teams don’t look at it as a throw him out there and see what you got. Like you only put him out there if you think he’s prepared and ready to go. Clearly the Browns do not think he’s prepared and ready to go. I value I’m not disputing that. I’m not disputing that. Dylan Gabriel’s ready to go. I I think it’s more of a they don’t think Shador is ready more than Dylan is playing so well. You know, there are some guys that are better in games than they are in practice. There are 100% Tim Tibo was one of those guys. Tim Tibo’s numbers were never great. He just found a way to win. Somehow they were winning fluky games, crazy games. He was complete in one game. He he was like nine of 18 for 111 yards and he had the last minute drive to win the game. I’ll tell you that some guys rise to that occasion. And I do think Shadur’s personality is give me the smoke. Play Shidore. Play Shadore. If he balls out, fire Kevin, fire everybody. You never believed in him. Yep. Yeah, you’re right. if he doesn’t trade him because I’m not going through this almost cussed. I ain’t going through this again next year. Yeah, it’s too much for a backup quarterback. If he doesn’t play well this year, goodbye. Yeah, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. But the but here’s the thing. I’m going just keep it real. Kevin Sansky ain’t worth the squeeze. I just said sweep. Yeah. No, I don’t think like like here’s the thing. Like I don’t think it has to play Shador played poorly to get me to the point about three players that are worth this. Evans got What’s she saying? Because what we what we’re talking about here is we ain’t even seen him play. What we’re dealing with today is because of Kevin Sfansky and his handpicked quarterback Dylan Gabriel, who he’s been spreading propaganda about since day one. He’s received the reps. He’s been You told us he was the supercomputer. You told us how great he was. It was, bro, you told us a thousand times. And you talk about you ain’t got no linemen. Well, guess what? You could have drafted a lineman in the third round that could have helped you or a receiver, but you took Dylan Gabriel. He’s been getting reps since day one. When it comes to the comparison between him and Shador Sanders, the Cleveland Browns has have no legs to stand on talking about who’s ready and who ain’t cuz obviously this guy has never been ready, but they continue to force feed him down your throat as if there’s any redeeming qualities. There aren’t. I mean, so if you think that you’re going to go get another quarterback, it is malpractice to keep trotting him out here when you have another quarterback who’s sitting in the wings that you can see if you’re going to be able to play him and he’s a franchise guy. Nobody is saying give Shador Sanders the the the the keys. All they’re saying is give him an opportunity to show what he can do and it’s based on this. And by the way, how many games did Joe Flacco get before they jettisoned him? Four. four four games. So you telling me Joe Flacco, the same Joe Flacco that’s thrown for thousands of yards, got four games, but Dylan gets the benefit of the doubt. He and it’s pulling teeth to get to 200. Yeah, I’m I’m done seeing I agree. Obviously, see, I think Stansky should be fired either way. The one thing I’ll say about like, oh, if if she played Jordy stinks the rest of the year, you said, you know, you got to trade him. Go. The only reason I don’t think it’s as necessary if if they drafted a quarterback in the first round, it wouldn’t be the same. Yes, it would. Yes, it would. Nah, not the same way. Yes, it would. Yes, it would. Yes, it would. It would still be there. It would. No, but it would make sense that you’d play a first round quarterback as opposed to a guy you draft. All right. And if he struggles two or three games in a row, we’re going to go through this crap all year. I hear you. That’s not a reason to trade a guy. I would leave it up to the next coach to say, is this guy worth developing? That’s another thing. his evaluation or of what it is with Shador Sanders is invalid because he he didn’t develop nobody. It looked the same with Deshawn Watson, Joe Flack, all the above. I don’t I don’t care what their evaluation is on any quarterback. You show me the quarterback that they got it right with. The one they had that could win, they got they got him out of here. There’s no there’s no quarterback in the six years that Kevin Sansky’s been here that has played anywhere else that has played their best football for the Browns. Never. None. Not even Jacobe Brassette, who didn’t play well yesterday, but had been playing well for Arizona before yesterday, uh, better than he’d ever played here. I mean, he had guys that had moments, Flaco and Winston both had moments here where we were like, not the best of their careers. No, but we were dazed by what we were seeing. We’re like, where’s this coming from? And then they both reverted to, you know, it’s like clock struck midnight for both of them. Did you guys like Yeah, I know this is off topic, but talking about the offensive line, this horrible world, did you guys see James Hudson yesterday? No. What happened to him? What did you think of that as a Giants fan? He’s an abomination. He got He was flagged nasty four times on the opening drive. Nasty. And they benched him and he went apoplelectic on the sidelines. Yeah. It’s the second time he said four penalties on a drive this season. He went bananas. Oh, really? Like how are you? How dare you bench me? But you know what I like what I liked was I’m sure they don’t have quality backups either, but but finally they said, “Okay, I can’t look at this anymore.” By the way, this that wasn’t yesterday, by that was from week one. Uh week two. Okay. Week two. I someone sent it to me and and I had I had not seen it. That was from week two. By the way, this penalties now. Has he cut? Has he been released? Nope. Okay. Cuz I thought he But he’s not starting anymore. He should be, you know, the situation you talked about with the Titans that they fired season. You’re going to have the same thing with Giants probably. Probably. Yeah. I mean, you got to fire Dable. I mean, and there’s always exceptions like like Variable and Drake May very well could be the exception where it works where they figure out you can always fire someone repair and it works. But but the vast majority it will set them back is this is when you start getting well I didn’t want this guy this guy was already here and never ending cycle. Did you guys see the Vrabel interview on Rich Eisen where he was talking about the development of Drake May and he basically said, you know, Eisen was being very complimentary of Drake May talking about he’s got the best deep ball in the NFL and the stats bear that out and Frabel was he’s so bleachy and he’s like, “No, we’re not the best at anything.” Yeah. Like he’s he’s made strides. Yeah. and he’s open to learning and but what we’ve done is we’ve empowered him to be our leader. I like the way he communicates to our players. I like the way he listens to the coach’s message and he’s a great purveyor of our message. Like we give him the message and he he gives it to the locker room and they follow him. And I just I just you know I don’t know that it’s going to work out this way. Nobody can predict you know what what will happen down the road. But it just seems like they got on the right page immediately. And I know he’s wasn’t his guy, but he’s already decided that they can win together. They can accomplish. There’s always exceptions, but these guys can’t ever get it right. I certainly don’t give them the faith that if they misalign regime with quarterback that they’ll then get the right one. Do um who Well, that there’s there’s too many layers to it. I don’t want to open that up right now. All right, Mike. We’ll move on in one sec real quick just to wrap up on the Gabriel stuff with Tommy Reese calling plays. Did anyone notice any significant difference in the stacking of plays, the sequencing of plays? No. The one thing and that you thought looked different than when I thought one thing that looked incredibly stupid was going with an empty backfield on the drive was third and manageable and he had nobody hit. Judy was kind of back there and he took the sack late in the game. Like why are you going with an empty? It might have been a fourth down play. There were three guys wide open. There was three open guys open. I mean there was he had an empty backfield. Right. Right. Cuz that means you got to get rid of the ball quick and guys wide open. But remember they told us that was his strong suit. They told us that he was able to handle that. He was able to process stuff. He was able to anticipate. They said that he was much further along than Shidor Sanders because that’s why he was playing. But what I’m saying is you go back and watch the all 22. There are three guys open on that play. The blitz is is obvious. I don’t know if it’s a zero blitz, but they brought pressure. I think it was a zero blitz, but they brought pressure and there was three options open on that play. The thing is when he is collapsed in the pocket, and this is and let me just get get this out. There’s no knock against Dylan Gabriel. I think he’s a great human being. I think that he’s been put in a position where it it it’s like you he has limitations plus the limitations of the offense. Let I’m not going to act like it’s all Dylan Gabriel, right? Like like let’s get that clear. But when he is in the pocket and they are collapsing the pocket, he he cannot see where it’s going. He can’t see the He took the sack at the end of the first half that almost cost him the field goal. Yes. He just can’t see. And and I get the fact that he you can it’s a difference between being better but speak it on the whiteboard and able to execute. And when you take that type of sack that tells me one of two things. You’re not seeing the game fast enough or you’re not able to physically see or or or manufacture and see those plays and those routes developing. And that’s just the issue. And those things are never going to change because he’s physically limited. And that’s just it is what it is. So that’s my assessment on Dylan Gabriel. No knock against him. I think he’s a good dude at the end of the day. And by no stretch of the imagination and I’m saying Shador Sanders going to come in here and throw for 500 yards the first week. Well, if I drink some Kool-Aid that day, I might I might say that. I might be tongue and cheek. I might. But here’s the thing. At this point, I I I just want to see what it look like, bro. If you’re going to make a move, make the move so we can make an evaluation and get on to next year. But but what are we two and seven? We’re two and a seven. It’s not He’s not going to die going on the football field. What what are we going to learn by by trotting this same thing out there and looking at it over and over and over and over and over again? Yeah, we we have to we have to see something different. Um so there’s nothing different with Tommy Reese, Mike. But I did like I did like I liked how he I think there was a point in the game where the Browns were it’s in the middle of the game and it’s usually the time period where Kevin Sfensky usually gets pass happy. I thought Tommy Reese did a nice job of consistently sticking to the run even though it might have not been giving you huge chunk plays, right? I thought he gave some options. I thought he did his best work and getting Dylan Gabriel out of the pocket. I thought he did a good job of doing that and there were some throws that Dylan made early on that that got him into a little bit of of of rhythm. So, I will say those two things, but it was it the same? Yeah, pretty much. I I just think the only thing I excited about with the Browns offense is that I think Quinn and Judkins and Harold Fannon, but especially Judkins, the upside for both of them is really high. Yeah. When when Judkins gets a real team around him, he could be as good as anybody. Gabriel Gabriel running the ball yesterday was something we hadn’t seen, right? He ran for more yards yesterday than he had in all of his game previous games combined. More yards yesterday. And I don’t know if that is that do you think that could be something like Reese emphasizing to him more look if it’s not there run. Well I it most of it came on two runs. I think it was just the coverage. I mean he wasn’t afraid. Didn’t seem afraid to leave the pocket run. And by and by the way I just say this quickly. McNuggets. If you draft an offensive lineman you get you a a good one. That not only helps your quarterback who’s on the roster it also helps Quinn Sean Juckkins. It also helps your running game. It also then gives you a boost so that you can run the ball effectively to then in turn help said quarterback. So for me, you know, I I I just think it’s foolhardy and and and no, you can’t be going in the draft and getting fifth round tackles and call it the same thing. You need to spend high capital on blue chip positions and the Browns up front are just a mess. Yeah. All right, guys. We’re going to get back to the Browns in a bit. We got to talk about the Guardians indictments after a quick word from the homebuilders associations. Give big this year with a home for the holidays raffle. 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I don’t know about you guys, but when I got into this business, I never thought I’d be googling the sentence or the question, is the Dominican Republic an extradition uh country? No, I I wondered that too. Wow. And it is. I wondered that too. I assume that it was, but yeah, but like who who would have thought I’d be, you know, looking for that for workrelated purposes, but that’s where we’re at. Well, explain to people why. Yeah. So, for those who don’t know the news, uh a federal indictment came out of the court uh the federal court in New York yesterday that uh both Luis Ortiz and Emanuel Class uh are charged with multiple counts including money laundering facing up to 65 years in prison. Uh Ortiz was arrested in Boston. Class is expected to be arrested at some point. We don’t know where he is right now. He’s allegedly in in Dominican Republic. Uh it read Zach, you can read the indictment. It’s I believe a 22-page indictment. Uh you or you can just read Zack Jax uh Zack uh Meisel’s article in the Athletic. He wrote two articles, but his second article details the alleged incidents and it it also has exact quotes from Class’s text exchanges with a couple of guys. And this I know a lot of people were putting out this theory that he was being threatened and all this stuff. That’s why he did it. Well, the conversation he had with this one guy made it seem like they were good friends. He was getting them tickets from the game. Uh he sent a sad puppy dog, right? When they won when they won. When he was supposed to intentionally throw a ball and the batter swung it. Yeah. Andy Pes and the Dodgers swung the bat and swung a missed. He got the save. One, two, three. By the way, um the first alleged incident I’m J I’m sure you remember this game was against the Mets in 2023. A game that James Carich gave up a grand slam to tie the game. I remember that. And then the Guardians regained the lead 97 and then Class gave up three runs and and they lost 109. Wow. And that’s the first game he’s now every other game he was alleged to have do do this. He he got the job done. He won the game. the two games in Ortiz’s case, it’s only two games that they have that they believe have the approval. Yeah. They said he didn’t start doing it until like June of 25. Yes. Both of the games with Ortiz, he got crushed. It like he was feeling the pressure of of what they were doing or whatever. Uh or clearly, if you read between the lines, Ortiz, it seems like, ratted out uh Class A. Ortiz was so bad at throwing it that he was caught right away. He was caught. Class got away with it for three years. Yeah. Now, there’s no there’s no evidence that any of this happened in the 24 playoff games, which surprised me because he was awful, right? And it it’s going to lead you to believe things like that. Now, Zach pointed out cuz he read the whole uh indictment that there were no accusations, all the evidence they have on clause, there’s a lot. Yeah. But apparently none of it took place in 24 period, which was his best year. It was a bunch of games in 23 and then it happened again in 25. Yeah. And so, uh, and how did they exactly catch like like they but I told that, and you probably heard this, Jay, that, um, the casinos are the ones that have the bandwidth. They they moderate. They’re called irregular bets, right? Well, here’s the thing. And they they that’s how they were not very smart. First, there’s so many dumb things done here. I didn’t even know you could bet on the speed of a pitch. I didn’t even know. Yeah, I didn’t either. I had no clue that you could. essentially betting whether a guy’s going to throw an off pitch or over or under a certain amount. I think they were betting parlays on ball or strike and then speed over or under 98 99 or whatever. So he would spike a slider in the dirt both again reading between the lines it seems how they got caught is that or the betting on Ortiz pitch like or Class is probably someone that gets a lot of prop bets bet on him because he’s a known pitcher. He’s a very good pitcher. Ortiz is a b essentially a nobody, right? And so all of a sudden there was a game in what was it? June 15th. June. Yeah. June 15th where there was a lot of money bet on one pitch with him out of the blue cuz nobody was betting on or and this raised a red flag. Those are the irregular bets. And so that’s why even though Claus was allegedly doing this much longer that it seems like they got the whole thing because they busted Ortiz and then through Ortiz they got Class. Ortiz. Yeah, or they got Claus through Ortiz and then they got phones and text messages, right? And there was all kinds of evidence in class. You guys don’t there’s there’s no way they’re ever incredible thing to me is the amount even the 400,000 that was alleged to have been paid off on the class A pitches. Yeah, that’s popcorn. He’s made 12 million already in his career and is and if if his options got picked up, which they would have been, he’s guaranteed another 26 million going forward. It’s all gone. All of it got to make 400,000. Luis Ortized on the two times that the DOJ has determined that he tipp pitches, right? Made 12 grand off it. Yeah. What’s the point? Because guys make stupid decisions because they never think they’re going to get caught and it’s only one pitch. It’s one and and if there’s if there’s $5,000 laying on the ground, you’re going to bend over and pick it up. Doesn’t matter how much you make, you’re going to bend over, pick it up. Depends on what’s attached to it. But they but to them, they were never going to get caught. They thought Yeah. Well, stupidly. Sadly, what’s going to happen is they are now the cautionary tale for every baseball player. Oh, for sure. Every baseball player. And I was talking to Zach yesterday. Every time a pitcher spikes a curveball in the dirt now, you’re going to go, “Wow, did you make money off that? How much money was made off that?” We’re seeing that all the time in the NFL, in the NBA, whenever there’s a weird looking play, you’re seeing people saying that now. I know that you guys are Jay, you’re I think in particular, pretty steadfast that this prop bet, these super props are not going to go away. No, I I’m actually writing for it today. They need We got to get rid of these. Yeah. I mean, I said that a couple weeks ago and you said, “Well, they’re not going to go away.” I can tell you that someone did. Maybe it was bull. And I said, “I ain’t never known money back.” I don’t think prop bets are going to go away now. No. These these super prop bets on every pitch that seems that’s going to go away. There’s no there’s no point for it. And now the commissioners of all of the leagues are looking to what move they’re going to make and they’re probably talking to the to the casinos. I think I think what you know an easy solution is first of all you shouldn’t be able to bet on every pitch. That’s stupid. No. And and in terms of like overunders on players scoring in the NBA that’s going to go away too. I would any guy that you would have for like under 10 points just don’t even put a lineup on it. Like don’t even put it on. Well I think I think those lines are going to go away too. What’s interesting is I don’t think that’s Ohio’s governor DeWine initially came out and said oh we’re going to ban these. We’re we’re not going to have these bets in Ohio. Then he the lobbyist the money got to him. The lobbyist was like, “Hold on, hold on. There are a few lobbying groups more powerful than the gambling.” Absolutely. And he pulled back his stance and he goes, “Okay, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to take a wait andsee approach to see what the commissioners of each league do, but it’s coming.” So, I think what he’s doing is passing the buck off to the commissioners, hoping that the commissioners do the right thing here. In the end, people blaming like the fact that these sports are working with uh gambling companies. I don’t have a problem with that. These things were happening long before gambling was illegal. It’s almost easier to regulate. It’s easier to regulate. It’s easier in conjunction on these investigations. Yeah. So, because it doesn’t b these scandals are bad for the sport. They’re bad for the fans. It’s the only time where the sport, the fans, and the gambling companies are all on the same page. It’s not good for any. No. Are the gambling companies on the same page? No. Are we sure about that? No. It’s why would Why would the gambling company want games to be because Because No. Why would they want prop bets to go away? No. No. That’s what I was saying. I was saying any improprieties are bad for everybody. Not No, they don’t want prop bets to go away. I don’t know how you get rid of prop bets. Like I think that there’s some prop bet right now. It’s in the hands of the commissioners. Each individual commissioner is said to be looking at their league and their options to see what they can do. So you go to DraftKings and say you can’t and DraftKings says, “Yeah, we’re still going to.” So then what? Well, you you lose the whole bag. So this thing Yeah. No, I I think right now they have a good relationship and they want to continue to have a good relationship, but the commissioners are are tasked with keeping their product making sure that their product is what it looks like. The players unions, in my opinion, need to pressure these leagues. The players unions need to say, “Get rid of this. Gone. We don’t want this.” I agree. That’s where it starts. The players union bargains this with the league and says, “We you got to get rid of I don’t think you have to get rid of all prop bets, but you things like individual prop bets, things like a ball or strike, things like will some Clippers bench players score over two and a half points?” Those are easy shady things. depending on whether Aaron Judge is going to hit a home run or not. To me, that’s a different I I I I think I’m not going to say we all naive, but we understand that. Listen, when you when you raking their money hand over fist and the only downside to these little scandals is what the downside is, yeah, people will talk about it, but they still going to gamble. And guess what? They’ll just suspend these dudes for life and put them in federal penitentiary and they’re like, “Oh, there’s two outliers there. Let’s continue to keep this thing rolling.” They are going to make an example. Oh, yeah. They’re not going to be 65 years. Never. They’re never playing again, right? They’re done. They’re done. They’re going to prison. Yep. They will go to prison. Of course, they will. And and it’ll be it’ll be months, not years. And it may be 20 months, but they’re not. You know, this yesterday it came out that they each face 65 years. They’re not they’re not getting anywhere near that eventually. They’re going to settle. Really, what they want is going to go to prison. Who knows? More than likely. I believe I believe both will go to prison from a baseball standpoint. Or may not because first in gets the best deal. And I do I do think that he was the the rat. Yes. I I think it feels like he got pressured by Class A potentially. I think Ortiz they were pretty tight. They were chummy. Ortiz probably gets probation or something. He maybe he avoids jail time. But I think Emanuel Claus A I think the real pen the punishment here is the lifetime ban and the money that they left on the table. Yeah. Especially and they want I I believe that baseball needs new sacrificial lambs. Pete Ro a lot of people and a lot of players today never saw Pete Rose play. Yeah, if you ask them what about Pete Rose? Oh, he’s the hit leader and he got banned for betting. That’s it. To to the point though about like how how could you jeopardize all this money for this little bit? Number one, they never thought they were going to get caught. But number two, even like 50 grand is still a lot of money to these guys. And I know it doesn’t sound like it, but I remember uh when when Kyrie was here on his rookie deal and he was making I don’t know 6 million, 7 million. And he I was talking to him. He had they were talking about the all-star rookie something or other something about all-star game and he was going for MVP or something. He’s like or he he had won it and he won like 50,000 and he’s making seven million a year. What’s $50,000 you make six seven million a year. He’s like I bought my Range Rover with that. So there’s always sure no matter what and forget the money and and every day everywhere people make dumb decisions they shouldn’t make that don’t make sense. You don’t think you’re going to get I’m going to tell you this. This is easy money. Like, here’s the thing. Yeah, you make $7 million, but let’s do a quick math facts, boys and girls. You make $7 million a year. What tax bracket is you in? Yeah, you’re losing 40%. So, that’s half. So, now you made throw another eight% onto your agent. Now, it’s half. So, seven became three and a half in a blink of an eye. And guess what? How many people they from the Dominican Republic, how many people they taking care of? Yeah. Right. How many I mean, you you got You still have plenty of money. It’s a lot. But but what I’m saying is people live beyond their means. I hear you. And every day. So So you said how can how can they do that for five grand? Because they needed that five grand. Five grand. Still five grand. Five grand. Like hey look and it’s a lot of people out here. I still don’t understand how Chanty Bips them. I don’t I’m like dog. Chanty made 126 million his career. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of money by any standard. And you doing you doing poker. I’m cool bro. You supposed to but I mean in in Clausia’s mind I’m only spiking one pitch. I can still strike the guy out, right? I just made five grand for spiking one pitch and I still struck him out and we still won. We still won the game. I have two questions for you guys. One, I know you mentioned some jail time, some prison time. How long do you think class? Is it months? Is it a year? Up to 65, but what do you think? I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s in the 20 month range. It’s just a guess. I think it’d be less than that. Strictly a guess, but I think they want to make a loud and clear message here. All depends. All depends on um what information he got. Think about because if Ortiz gave him some information, you think these is the only two isolated people that they may have known about like well right now they are saying that we just went to those places but but you know some people say I ain’t going to talk until they that sentence come down and they say is there anything you would want the judge to know prior prior to your sentencing right who knows is the other question baseball related Mike or no yes yes yeah this is it’s a disaster for the guardians that’s what I was going to ask for because think about it You had Colasse for three more of the years well below market rate. Yes. Or you could have traded him this off season for the bigger that was the bigger issue. They would have traded him at the I think he would have been gone at the deadline and I think so what pieces at the very least they would have traded him this off season. I mean they would have I think they I think they were in a situation where I believe he was good as gone. They would have had to get but there was no rush. So if they didn’t get a killer deal look at what Oakland got for Mason Miller that’s what they would have got. They would have got uh Dere from from San Diego. Well, who knows? I believe he was good as either way. He would have been traded soon or whatever. And and now that’s gone. They get nothing for him. That’s gone. Now you lose the guy been the best closer in baseball and for nothing. Yeah. Get nothing. For nothing. It’s and and and uh now they have now even more money to spend potentially. Hey, they they pay 40 million right now. Is this is this is those contracts void? 45. Oh, they will be. So, how much So, so how much money how much money they going to get? Like they get that that bread all Ortiz was on a minimum. I think was supposed to get 7 million next year. I thought it was 10. I think at 10 were the two the two option years were 10 each. So, I think he had about 26 million left coming to him. I mean, the last two were option years, which you obviously Either way, the Guardians are set up to spend money this off. Ramirez is the only player more than 7 million. The Dolan is using that money in the marble room. That that Well, the excuse this year, by the way, the excuse for them not to spend this year is is the lockout coming. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Because there there’s going to be a lockout spend. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t excuse they will use that as an excuse. They need to find a player who will take a one-year $30 million deal. That’s what that’s what they can do. They’re not going to invest long-term money. They’re not going to they’re not going to commit to money during the work stoppage, but if they can find a guy who falls through the cracks back when Boris was holding all these guys out and everything, if they can find one guy to spend big dollars on, they might be able to work some. I mean, they’ll be guys, it’s going to be a weird free agency year because there’s a lot the work stoppage is hovering and there’s a lot of good players in free agency. They they might surprise you. There’s a lot of hitters. Somebody’s going to get multi-year deals. these teams. Yeah, Kyle Tucker will get a multi-year deal and Kyle Schwarber will get a multi-year deal. But yeah, you got Pete Alonzo, you got Cody Bellinger, you got Alex Bregman. There’s a lot of good hitters out there. If you can find one and take a one-year deal for a big lump sum of money, they might be able to work something out. Yeah, but it’s not going to go beyond one year, I don’t think. Yeah, they they would probably do like a one of those. We’ll give you a two-year, but the second year is an option and it’s only hold the option and no player was gonna do that. Yeah, I was surprised Bieber picked up his own option. I was very surprised. I was shocked by that. I was very surprised. What is How much was it? 16 million. Well, but it’s really only 12 cuz he had a $4 million buyout. So, it really only I thought it was 16 million for him, right? He gets 16 million, but if he would have opted out, he would have still gotten 4 million. Amen. Well, yeah. How would he know? Really, it’s only a 12 million that he’s getting and he could have gotten a multi-year deal. I mean, he wouldn’t have gotten that massive contract he was hoping. He wants the big one. Yeah, that’s what he wants. He’s looking through a year and stay healthy. Didn’t help him. Gave up the World Series. Had they had they known he was going to pick up because I think a lot of people are surprised by that. Had they known he was going to pick up the option, they would have traded him. I wonder if they still would have traded him. I don’t know the answer to that. And here’s the other question. would have he decided to stay in Cleveland and not Toronto. Yeah, Zach Misel, he’s going back to a team that made it to the World Series, right? Zach Meisel was telling me that that apparently he and his wife really enjoyed their their brief time in Toronto. In Toronto and what’s not to enjoy? It’s a great And also they probably still trade him because this team looked like it was going nowhere. That’s true. But I I was very surprised. And it’s hard to turn 16 and they got enough starting pitching. It’s the rest of Toronto in the summer is awesome, man. With Toronto in February. No joke. It’s basically It’s not far from here. Geographically, it’s very similar weather. Yeah. Yeah. It’s It’s great in the summertime. It is an awesome summer city. It’s like Chicago. If you guys want some more Guardians chat, Bo and Zack did a Ultimate Guardian show this morning. It is on our YouTube page. It was a great episode. So, go check that out. It gives you some more in-depth details on the indictments and what’s next for the Guardians after the news from Class and Ortiz. We got one quick Cavs topic, then we’ll get back to the Browns. Our Cavs discussion today is brought to us by FanDuel. The NBA is back. There’s no better place to get in on the action than with FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. You can bet on overunders, lines, individual player props, anything you want. You can find it on FanDuel, turning any bet into a same game parlay for a shot at even bigger payouts. And right now, FanDuel is giving new customers $300 in bonus bets to use when their first $5 bet wins. just head over to fanduel.com/uss to sign up and play your game with FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Uh Jason, it was an ugly start to the season for the Cavs and since then they have been playing a lot more like the team we were accustomed to seeing last year. They’re seven and three, second in the Eastern Conference behind the Detroit Pistons. And in case anyone missed it, Steve, take this play. Uh DeAndre Hunter committed essentially murder on Thursday or on Saturday, excuse me. He literally sent Josh Giddy to the hospital. Josh Giddy is on the injury report today with a ankle. He’s on injury report listed as questionable. That is not a joke. I’m being dead serious. We may just let this play play the entire entirety of this segment. It is that filthy. Steve, just put this on loop. Uh leave this on the screen as much as you can. Jason, what do you make of the uh the Cavs looking a lot more like the Cavs of late? Yeah, they got their point guard back and they’re just starting to fall into place. So, he look like he got hit by broken ankle is worse. That one or the one I just showed you? That’s crazy. But this one, look at the jolt. Look at the jolt right here. Look like he got hit. That’s the grassy nose. Yeah, he does look like he got shot in the leg. The dude seated. It was an eyewitness account. And he’s literally on the internet report. He’s literally That’s the nastiest work I’ve ever seen. Look at him. He don’t know what happened. He was like, I don’t know what happened. The way he goes down. No contact either. He hurt himself as he was like, “Yeah, you can see. Watch his right ankle. His right ankle touches turf.” Oh, that’s his right ankle literally touches Turk. That’s a crossover. Yeah, just filthy. I mean, seriously, this the whole segment just be us laughing. Yo, his mom need to come on the court and check on that man. Baby, you okay? By the way, watch the watch the bench reaction as this is going on. Watch. I thought they were going nuts. Yeah. Who’s wearing the sweatpants jumping around? That’s Darius. Oh, Darius. Oh, that’s what you get for having them low tops on. He out there in bowling shoes. That happened and half B. He’s never going to win that. And he’s having a good season, too. Josh Kenny’s having a terrific season. People are going to want that to happen. The Bulls, by the way, in that game. In that game, the Cavs erased a 16-point halftime deficit to not hurt. And that’s why, Mike, I’ve decided my new philosophy. Oh, good gracious. So, I’ve had three philosophies already on the Cavaliers this season. My first philosophy was it’s November 14th. I already have three philosophies. And you’ve had three philosophies. My first one was you don’t care about the regular season. I don’t care about the regular season. I’m not going to watch. The second one is I don’t care about the regular season. The second one was all right. Well, you know, like we got to talk about it. So, I’m going to watch and if if I have to watch, then I’m going to take it seriously and so I’m going to be critical when they play poorly. My third philosophy is and this is the best one. I’m only gonna watch the last eight, six to eight minutes of the games because everything that happens before that is meaningless. Yeah, but you still got to see how the players play. Nah, I’ll text Mike. He’ll give me an update. He does do that. No. So, here’s what he’s decided. He’s decided that the first 32 minutes are meaningless. Are the regular season? Yes. And after that, it’s the playoffs. It counts. Right. Right. That’s all that matters. What’s happening? Well, that it’s taken you a long time to get to that philosophy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the NBA philosophy in general is Yeah. Let me know when there’s 3 minutes left. I mean, except for the games where they play on the special court for the United Arab Emirates. Go. I mean, those are magnificent. Those are huge games. Watching those. We’re We’re limit We’re eliminated from that nonsense already, right? The Cavs are one and one. They have two more games regardless. They blew. It’s going to be tough to uh Yeah. I mean, how are we going to survive, Mike, if we don’t make it? So, that what they got to win the next two or something to win that. They They didn’t make it last year either. Do you remember? Devastating. We got to win the Colder Cup this year. Let’s go. Uh Jason, though, back Jason, back to the real question at hand before we got distracted by the Let’s see the crosser one more time. Actually, let’s see the cross, Steve. Steve, pull it up one more time. But Jason, what do you make of the Cavs looking a lot more like the Cavs? Yeah, I don’t think it’s that surprising. Uh this is a talented team. We knew they were going to be a good team. injuries early on. Like there might have been a wet spot on the behind the basketball. Jason, I promise you I’ll let you answer the question at some point. No, it’s fine. Like, oh, there must be a wet spot out there. They’re playing like they’re playing like we thought they would eventually play this year. So, they’ve weathered the storm early on without Darius. I Darius didn’t play the other night. They’re going to limit him uh while they while he continues to work his way back. But this is a good team. We said before, you win 50 55 games with just Evan and and uh and Donovan. They’ll get you to 50 wins and then it’s a matter of the postseason after that. Yeah. What’s our evaluation of Evan Mobley right now? Is there any growth off of last year? Is there any growth off of last year to this point? I think that they’ve asked him to do things that he’s not comfortable doing. So, and I’d keep doing it. I’d keep force feeding. Now, I think Mike and I disagree on that, but I I you know how it ends the other way. You know how it ends. I agree. They should they should keep force. So, so keep putting him in uncomfortable spots. Mike, you don’t think they should keep doing that? Sorry, Jason. No, I I think they should keep doing it. I think it’s just clearly obvious that at this point of his career, there are things that he’s very capable of doing and there are things that he’s still Bambi-esque and trying to figure out. The only way to improve is to do it. I didn’t say cut it all out. I just said when you have everyone else back in, especially with Darius back in the flow, I want to see them utilize him in the ways that he’s best at more frequently than they had in the first seven games where he was just basically said, “Here’s the keys to the car. Go do whatever the hell you want.” I think he’s just better in structure. And maybe there’s a happy medium in between those two. Uh, you know, I I saw Ike Ty said he’s out on Evan. He He’s He doesn’t think he’s ever going to be that guy. He may not be. I just don’t think they’re going to win the championship if he’s not. It’s him or they’re not going to win the championship because we’ve seen it the other way too many times. And Donovan can play out of his mind and he is playing out of his mind. And I mean, he’s still an undersized guard. That’s exactly it. And and November is not May and June. And it’s just it’s such a heavy load that those guys have to carry. What’s the What did Golden State win the year that we beat him in 16? Did they win 75 or 7? 73. 73. Can the Thunder win 74? They really really really What’s their record right now? I think they’ve lost once. Yeah, they’re uh 9 and1 10 and one 10 and one. They look like they could beat anybody they want. I mean, they’re better than last year. They are better than last year. That’s why I was um Yeah, that’s why it’s frustrating. I mean, if you’re the king of the East, that doesn’t get you much. They’re 10 and one and Jaylen Williams hasn’t played yet. And and I think their loss was a one or two point loss, wasn’t it? They blew a 15-point lead in the fourth quarter and barely lost. Doesn’t every team blow a 15-point lead in every game now? Basically, if the other team gets hot with the with the three-pointer. Yeah, you can. I mean, an 18-point lead can be gone. I’m not I’m not no Darius. Listen, I I have not been a big fan of I mean, Darius Garland is a good ball player. Let me just get this right. But I think to me I think Darius Garland if you if you do want to win a championship I think Darius Garland he he’s the he he’s the second option. Um, what I’ve seen with Evan Mobley, um, and how Darius Garland gets Moley and Jared Allen the ball and the way the offense looks with Darius Garland, I think if they want to win, I do agree that that the easiest way to do so would to be have Evan Mobley be the guy. But I just think that if you if you got a lottery ticket to scratch off, it’s the fact that Darius Garland can get hot and give you 50. Yeah, but but is it they’re just not going to win in the playoffs against the best teams with Darius and Donovan as the two best players? Well, here’s the thing. That never happened. That may h that that may have to be what it is because I don’t know if Evan Moley, as we see right now, Yeah. is he going to be able to develop to a point where in playoffs you can count on him being his second best player? Jason, if it doesn’t happen this year, are you giving up on it? I think there will be. If they don’t win a championship this year, there will be changes. No, no, no. Well, okay. Yes. Yeah, there will be changes. But my my question is, if Evan doesn’t take that step to to being the best player this year, is this the last chance in your mind? Does it have to happen this year? I’m No, I I wouldn’t say that. I mean, certainly you lose hope, but I’m not going to say that’s it. He is what he is just because again, like his development was so strange from the start where he was never the focal point. So, I think it stunted his early growth and development because they didn’t put him in these spots when he was a rookie. They were trying to win games and and by that was the right approach. I’m not saying it was the right approach. It was 100% the right way to do it, but it was just it he didn’t have the luxury of being on a bad team and being able to develop certain skills and and learn to do things that he wasn’t comfortable doing. So, now you kind of have to to do it on But is he ever gonna be good enough? like all the best players can create their own offense, right? Uh yeah. Is he ever gonna be good enough at that part of the game to be that good a player? I don’t know. I I don’t I don’t know. I I I think that there’s a chance he can be. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I just I I think it’s been misconstrued that I say like he’s going to be this their best chance to win. They have he has to play that way. Right. Right. If he doesn’t get there, I don’t think that they Mike, who is the best player in the NBA that doesn’t create his own offense? Oh, that’s a great question. Give me a sec. Yeah. Uh, filibuster for for 20 seconds. Well, because you went back to like Darius and um Dary players, but no, but it’s like Golden State did win. They beat Cleveland with Steph and Clay, but that was a different level of shooting, right? That we haven’t seen before or they just for as good as Darius and Donovan are, they aren’t that because even Clay was a lock down defender and he was 67 like I mean or 66 at the They reshaped the game of basketball and then you dropped KD in the middle of that. So if it stop Oh god, I forgot about that. Uh no. Well, well, here here’s the thing about Darius, right? Where would you put him in terms of in terms of offensive skilled players? I mean, he’s at his position one of the most skilled guys offensively. Would you would you say that? Offensive skilled point guards. Yeah. Just purely skill. Yeah. Stupidly skilled. Stupidly skilled. But it you have to factor in everything else, right? You’d have to factor play at the other end of the court, too. And you know what KD said? We gonna find him. That was haunting. We gonna find him to name him to single him out by name cuz we, you know, he was lying. It was telling he wasn’t lying. So like for me, ball don’t lie, man. It It’s tough because I don’t know any other way. He to win a championship in Evan Mo is not your second the best player. That means Donovan Mitchell going to still have to shoot like Donovan Mitchell shooting now 50%. And he gonna have to be healthy. And then Darius Garland’s gonna have to play. He’s gonna be have to turn into Kyrie Irving. Yeah. 2016, which you could happen. I don’t buy that. Kyrie Irving 2016 was a top No, that’s a big jump. That’s a top 10 player. What what LeBron and Kyrie did going into game five in that building doesn’t get enough credit and and they get plenty of credit, but 40 and 40 credit. what those two guys did in a in a closeout game on the road, a hostile environment like that. I’ve never one of the most incredible. It takes that kind of effort to win a championship against that kind of team. And then they had to win two more after that. Yeah, they did. Did I just see that the Cavs are play going to be in Miami for three days? Two in a row. Four days technically cuz they got him yesterday. Yeah, right. They better they better get the first one. They’ll win the first one. They’re going to lose this one. Three nights on South Beach. What do you think? What I mean I I don’t know. DeAndre Hunter seems to be playing a little free right now. How this DeAndre I this is this a new DeAndre Hunter or what’s going on? Because this is the DeAndre Hunter they traded for. I mean this dude is in Atlanta. Step back mid game. Obviously he put people on posters. He’s pulling up from half court lowkey. I mean if this is the DeAndre Hunter that you going to get. Yeah. I mean his three-point splits ain’t that crazy but he’s been better. He started he’s starting to knock he’s starting to knock down some. So do you have an answer? Who’s the best offensive player in the NBA that doesn’t create his own offense? I think Larry Markin right now is probably the answer. Wow. He’s averaging 28.3 points a game. Damn Christmas. Everybody getting So there is So and but he’s not a superstar. No. No. No. What would you call him? A star. He’s an all-star. an allar. He’s an allar. Moy is better because the defense, right? You c in this era of basketball, you I don’t think you can be a superstar unless you can consistently create your own offense. Is that fair? Well, to back to back your point, the other three names I pulled up on this list. And I think Markin is arguably the best, maybe second best, but Bam out of Bio’s in that category. Yeah, but Bam could Bam create a little they let him dribble in anything. I mean, so could Lori. I’m just saying guys that if you have to run your offense through 100 Okay, I I get what you’re saying. I get it. Aaron Gordon, who’s a terrific secondary scoreer, but he creating his own shot. He’s averaging 20 points a game this year. So, which is wild. Right in the same range. And then this guy is the the outcast for how he plays, but uh Jaylen Durn, the big man on and then Moy. I mean, Moley’s got I was I was excluding Moy. Okay. So, besides So, Moy might be the second best player that doesn’t create his own offense. I would take Moy over all those guys. Moy probably is better than marketing. Yes. as a as a well as an offensive player all around as a player. Yeah, as all right. But Marcus is a better offensive player. Yep. Right. Than Moy. Yes, he is. Yeah. But I I think Evan has the potential to be every bit as good as And Mark is on a bad team, right? Yeah. The Jazz aren’t good, right? So, and that’s the thing. So, unless Evan Mobley, that’s the part of his game. Like, if he can’t create his own offense more consistently, he can’t be a superstar. Like this is not the 80s when you had all these big guys who were superstars. He can create his own offense though. I just don’t think it does consistently. Well, that’s what I’m saying. I’m saying unless he develops that to me that is probably the last piece to it. But I’m saying if he can’t develop that part of his game. No, I don’t think he will either. He’ll be a very good player, be an allstar, but he will never be a superstar. tanalyzing when you watch him do it because it’s just it’s maddening that he doesn’t do it more often. He does a few things in every game where you go, yeah, can we see more of that, please? That is incredibly difficult to stop. Yeah, there’s a few things where you’re like, huh, why’d he do that? What the hell are you doing? Yeah. So, he’s uh I mean, he’s averaging 20 points a game. He has increased his scoring. His efficiency has gone down a bit and it’s just going to be fascinating to see how they weave in him being more aggressive with everyone coming back. But guys, we got one last Brown topic we got to get to today. It’s brought to us by Ripling. If you’re a business owner, here’s the truth. SAS promised to make work easier, but now the average company is buried by hundreds of apps that slow down your teams. Simply don’t work together. That’s not SAS. That’s sad. Software as a disservice. That’s why you need Ripling. Rippling is the unified platform for global HR, payroll, IT, and finance all in one place. They’ve helped millions of businesses replace a mess of disconnected tools with one system designed to give leaders clarity, speed, and control. And right now, you can get 6 months free when you go to rippling.com/lockdown NFL. Learn more at rippling. ripp.com/lockedonfl. Terms and conditions apply. Gbush, get your novel out. Jason, I hope you brought a pillow to take a nap. Oh lord. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All good. I just go now. I got work to do. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t really have I don’t really have anything, guys. What? You were in Florida when the news of Paul De Podesta came out. This is your boogeyman. What took so long? That that’s all I have. Here’s your chance. Like, let it go. It was funny. I mean, when I’m when I’m down there playing ball, I am out. I’m out. I just That’s it. I’m playing baseball. And every once in a while, something big will happen and I’ll look at my phone be like, “What the hell? Did the did the world explode?” My email, my text, all my DMs were going bananas. And I’m like, what the hell happened? And I did see a headline on my on my phone about it just said Deepodessa. And I thought, oh, he got he must got fired. I put my phone back away. I didn’t even look. Uh because I thought that’s how his tenure here would end. I mean, really, all I have is what took so long. That’s it. And I’m surprised that he Well, he didn’t get fired though, Jay. No, I know he didn’t. Yeah, but he had to know that the end was in sight. Was it? I don’t know. I don’t know. He was going to get fired. I tend to think that he was going to get fired. All right. Yeah. And I think he’s he’s a smart guy. He really is a smart guy. Yes. And he found another sucker and now let him go screw up the Rockies. Well, I don’t know how he can screw them up anymore. The worst. Basically, I laughed and I go, “Okay, so the so he went from the dumpster fire of the NFL to the dumpster fire of Major League Baseball.” He was their third choice. Oh, I didn’t hear that. He was at least at least. Yeah. I was It’s funny. I was listening I don’t know. It’s funny, but I I was listening to MLB radio this morning and I heard Jim Bowden, who was, you know, a long time. I would hire Jim before I hired him. Jim Bowden said he said that Deep Podesta has been looking for a baseball job for three years. I believe it. He’s been looking to get out of the Browns and he’s been looking for a baseball job for three years. Nobody wanted him. And he goes, Paul D Podesta’s problem, he goes, as you said, very smart guy, graduated number one in his class at Harvard. I mean, like, you you got to be pretty damn smart. The pro he said his problem when he was in Major League Baseball is he had no people skills. Yes, he has no people skills whatsoever. continues to be a problem and he everything he does is analytics based and I and I know Jason you also like really think analytics is people that ignore analytics are stupid but the best guys find the balance between people and analytics the best organizations use it use both to find a balance and those are the winning organizations the organizations that are 100% on one or the other are losing organ And that’s and and the Browns front office the last few years has been run purely by analytics only and not by people. And that’s why they’ve hired that’s why they brought in so many bad character guys because they don’t care about those things. And now before that for years the Browns only did it by gut and by people and they sucked at it for the most part. So it wasn’t like that they had the right people doing that. Well I don’t even know that they sucked at it. I mean, Dorsey was I mean, everybody uses analytics. To say that nobody, you know, there’s somebody in the NFL that stiff arms analytics, that’s nonsense. It’s Well, there’s how much you use analytics and how you use it. I think that’s more how you use it. I think Dorsy brought in all kinds of great talent. He did. Yes. And and doesn’t get the credit for the talent that he brought in. Oh, yeah, he does. Well, a lot of people just ran him off and never thought of him again. No, I mean I thought what at the time we were running him off, I thought, wait, he got a lot of Why is he Why are we running him off? I don’t know if you remember this. You I was filling in for Dustin. Yeah. The day he got fired. You and I did the show. It was like New Year’s Eve or something like that when they fired them together, didn’t they? No. Coach, I thought the coach and GM got it at the same time. The day John got fired, you and I I was filling in for Dustin, and you went berserk on the radio about this issue. Why would you get rid of this? I thought it was insane, too. I didn’t like it at the time. Ultimately, it was the the Freddy Kitchens hire was a huge mistake by John Dorski. Yes. Because Freddy Kitchens was not an As much as we’re down on Stfansky, he’s a professional. But Freddy Kitchens was not a professional. Let’s think about it like this. Hindsight is 2020. Yeah. But remember when Greg Williams took over, they they were in the You know what? They were in a crapper. They were two five in one. They were two five and one. They went on a run. Yeah, they won five games and I think they were close in a lot of them. And the one thing that people talked about was look at this offense. It was creative. It was innovative. Freddy Kitchens was the all shucks guy. Baker was throwing the ball much better. And John let his emotions and and the emotions of people on that staff will tell you now there was a lot of people behind Freddy propping Freddy up. Yeah. Yeah. On that offensive. He’s not a professional. He’s not this offensive genius. He don’t know what he was doing. They did it. They did a really nice job. They got more out of of Chub and Kareem together than anybody else. And I had Well, part of it is like I had a little bit of a Well, that’s stretching it a little bit, but I a tiny bit of a relationship with John Dorsey because we used to be at camp all the time and he would come sit with us. He would bust my balls all the time. We had so much fun. He’s a great guy. I loved him. He he he the guy knows football and and ultimately they they threw the baby out with the bathwater because of that. Again, there was no denying that the Freddy Kitchens hire was an extremely stupid move by Dorsy, but it shouldn’t have been enough to get him fired. No, but I think what did get him fired, Jason, correct me if I’m wrong, I think Deep Podesta used that as the opportunity to get him out of town. It wasn’t just Freddy. There was there was disagreement between John and the analytic staff, right? He didn’t want them involved. And it it goes back to what we’ve said a hundred times about the alignment of the front office and you’ve got this these competing agendas and it never works. But you also don’t want an echo chamber. They’ve yet to be able to strike a balance of being able to agree and disagree. Yeah. I mean, you’re I listen, you show me an organization that doesn’t have push back, I’ll show you a losing organization that some of the best ideas come from confrontation and discussion and debate. And if everybody, that’s why, you know, and I’m not making fun of you for saying it, but it’s what you say all the time, like they’re on the same page. And I always say, but it’s the wrong page. And so for me, being on the right page doesn’t get you very much. Someone in the organization should be saying, “Wait a minute here on Deshun Watson. Wait a minute here on whomever.” Like, and it it seems like, “Yep, we’re all in agreement. Let’s go get him. Let’s do it.” Okay. Well, all of your decisions were wrong. I don’t think Jimmy wants guys like that, unfortunately. No, Jimmy doesn’t. I Jimmy wants Yesmen, right? Yeah. He doesn’t want anybody that’s going to challenge him. That’s why everyone who throws their hands up and says, “Oh my god, they had Mike Varel in the building.” I’m like, “Guys, Mike Vrabel would never work.” No, not under not not given what he just left in Tennessee. Tennessee was a nightmare for him and the and the clashes that he had with ownership there. You think he’s going to walk back into another situation? There’s no way. You know where he ran to? New England. New England. because he knows there’s an owner there that will allow you to win and get out of the way. We had Kevin in Friday and I said, “Have you ever heard of an owner sitting in the Friday and Monday meetings?” Because Jimmy’s legendary for being in the strategy meetings and asking questions and oh my god and Kevin said the only owner I that I’ve ever worked for that sat in on those was Mr. Craft was Robert Craft, but he sat in the back and just listened to participate. He just sat in the back. Listening is fine. Exact you need to be informed. Yeah. That’s like the Colts owner was getting, you know, Ers’s daughter or whomever wife. I don’t know who she is. She should not be on the sideline. That’s insane. No, I got zero problem. Oh, it’s insane. I It’s It’s a bad look. Who wants to work with with your boss standing over your shoulder and it’s not because she’s a woman? It’s If Jimmy’s on the sideline, I’m going to say the same thing. Get the hell off the sidelines for the headset. Listening on the headset. I I think I’m okay with that. Yeah. In the press box. Yeah. But don’t be on the sidelines. Go in the press box. If you want to listen, go sit in the press box and sit on the side. They seem to be cooking. How will they record right now? Yeah. Let’s see. Let’s see longterm what happens there. But I think that Paul had a lot to do with because there was a clash. I I always felt like there was a tugof-war between Dorsy and Paul and Paul won. Dorsy got fired. We And that’s when they started listening more to because for a while Paul was here and they never listened to anything he said. like he wanted uh Sean McDermott and they hired Hugh and he wanted Kevin and they hired Freddy. So it’s like what why is he here? No one’s listening to anything he’s got to say. And then after the uh when they fired Freddy is when they seem to start listening to him a little bit more and that’s when they went and got Kevin and and for a while it was working. And that’s why I said I think he is good at identifying coaches because some of that stuff crosses from sport to sport. That’s why I mentioned Bob Myers earlier. Bob Bob is just a really smart guy. I would agree with that. Who understands relationships and it’s about building organizations? Who’s the guy that used to have on Andrew Brandt? I asked Andrew the one day. I said, “You think you could run a team in another sport?” He said, “Yeah, because it’s not identifying the talent and picking the players. It’s setting up the system and it’s setting up the structure and knowing I agree with that.” And and that was supposed to be what Paul did. And and honestly, I think that’s But you got to live here, too. Like you got to be here. That’s Yeah, that’s But you know what? I think everybody wanted him somewhere else. move to Colorado because he’s such a bristly figure. But I I do think that the one thing that I admire about the Indians and now the Guardians is like Tito was an out ofthe-park home run hire and they get it right a second time in vote. They they and and that to me, Jay, I know the general manager is is important, but I just think it’s the face of the organization to me is the head coach and they set the temperature in the room and I felt it at spring training. I talked to you about it. You felt it. There was just something was vibing about the energy and the atmosphere. I didn’t know that they were going to go on and win the division and and I didn’t I didn’t predict that the Tito thing had run its course and they needed I think Tito was out of energ they needed a new voice. They needed new blood and they got a new voice but the the fact that you get it right twice in a and really with Tito they were going back to a guy they knew. Yeah. Um but with vote it was a critical hire and they got it right. And to me that’s where you have to hit a home run. You have like in New England the players are essentially the same this year. They brought Vel in and with it an entirely new message and Mr. Craft did a very smart thing. He went and found a guy that knows the Bellich way and obviously Bellich winning had a lot to do with Tom Brady and I think they benefited one another. But and I don’t know I’m not saying Vel’s going to go on to win multiple Super Bowls in New England but it would not surprise me in the least. would surprise me the way that team has responded to him particularly and I gave the the the Tvon example earlier. The guy was so deep in his doghouse. He we got two carries a couple of games ago when Mike felt that the message had been received. He brought him back into his fold and now the guy’s looking at him on the sidelines on long touchdowns runs. Is it okay if I score, coach? It’s just he sets the culture and he got it right. And Kevin, I think is a good offensive coordinator, but the culture he said here was a losing culture. I think he’ll be a good head coach elsewhere. I hope so. I do think that it’s Yesterday was the first time we looked at us and said, “I don’t think there’s anything left to say.” Now, we’ll see how the rest of the season plays out. But you said, you know, Frank Cona was obviously a great hire, but like that wasn’t a risk. You knew Frank Cona was going to be a great hireer. And they knew him, too. They had a relation. Here’s the thing with Frank Cona. The the equivalent of Frank Kona in football is not coming to coach the Browns. Never. Why would you? You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Whereas Tito used that as the reason why he was coming here was his relationship with Anthony and exactly and that was why he came here and despite the fact that the Browns will spend money and the Guardians will not like as a baseball manager Frank Conan knew that coming in that he was hamstrung by the owner’s inability to spend and yet he’s like this is a good organization I have a relationship I’m going to go here. Whereas for the Browns, the coach of of a Matt or a coach of that caliber is no way picking the Browns even though he knows the owner would spend. I mean, he was a the equivalent of a Super Bowl winning coach. Why Why would any coach that has an option? Mike Homer came here and refused to coach, which was crazy. And he stole my cash and he was cashing checks. You see what I’m saying? You might get a dude with a resume, but he might come in and be like, “Yeah, By the way, and maybe I’m wrong about this, I I am I have zero interest in Gruden. Zero. Oh, I’m with you. No, I don’t either. And I was a Gruden fan when I was in Tampa. Right. But I saw the effect. That game has changed. Super, bro. And I think now like when when he came to Tampa, I I don’t think everybody knew what histick was. Right. Right. Right. You know, they knew him. He’d been around and had some success as a coordinator, but it in Tampa his he became a caricature of himself. Right. Right. Right. You know, and that’s what he is now. Yeah. And the Raiders thing was a disaster. And now he’s So what about Bellichic? No. No. Not I’m with you. I’m interest. The game has changed. It’s different now. So I don’t know. I know you say you want someone record, but those guys the guys with track What’s Doug Peterson doing right now? Day 90. They n I don’t know where is golfing. I mean Doug Peterson’s he’s an interesting guy to me in that you don’t got your Pton Mann you ain’t got your Payton Manning article written yet. He ain’t coming here. I I know he ain’t but you know how it is. He’s the he’s the mythical he’s the new coward. Do numbers Jason. He ain’t coming here. He I I mean that’s the that’s the holy grail. They’ve been saying that for how many years? How many years taint his reputation? He is not coming here. You know, if if Jimmy would say if I if if Jimmy’s ever gonna take a backseat to someone, it would be to Payton. Right. So, if Payton said, “I’m coming, Jimmy, but I’m barring you from the building. You cannot come into into I don’t want to see you in Berea.” He He got Do you think Do you think he would sign off on that? Even if he said the way this the way this is set up, I’m I’m the end all behaul and I will come and show up if I get the keys to castle live up to that. I’ll tell you what. Could he live up to it? No. Would he agree to it? Yes. Could he live up to that? I’ll tell you what I do. Snake on the deal. I do a a weekly uh betting pick. Giants just fired Dball. Fired. There you go. I do a weekly show with round and round they go with Brandon Stokeley. Uh, you know, I with Brandon Stoley, we do like a betting uh NFL picks show every week and obviously he’s good friends with Pton Manning and we’ve talked about Pton Manning on the show, but I’m gonna ask him on our next show that question specifically. Yeah. Would he come? No. Why would he? He’s got a great life. He has Listen, right? Why would he? He literally has the greatest life. When he was here, uh, the PGA gave him an award. They give an ambassador golf award and they gave it to him uh last year in Akran before the Firestone and he came in and it was a a big dinner and the for instead of having him give a speech, he wanted to do like an interview. So we did a fireside chat where I had literally I had 30 questions written down. Yeah. And I did have about 40 minutes with him before the dinner where we were just chatting and we have a lot of mutual friends. the coordinating producer of First Take now runs his production company. And I knew people at ESPN that were very instrumental in the in how that show came to be. Payton basically knew he wanted to call games, but he didn’t want to be on the road. And he said, “That’s not an option for me. I don’t want to do that. I want to be home with I want to talk my kids into bed.” And everybody kept telling him, “Well, you can’t do that. You need to be on the road and there’s production meetings.” And he said, “Well, then I don’t want to do it.” Yeah. Right. So Payton himself came up with the idea for this format and I thought he was doing it from his house. He goes, “No, it’s my neighbor’s house. It’s his garage.” So he literally, you know, they have this incredible setup, man cave, golf simulator, all these screens, and he goes, I tuck my kids in bed even on Monday nights because I walk across the street and I sit down and I do the game with the with the knowledge and the ability that I have. Yeah. So, I mean, what a brilliant innovation. Now, I think when his kids are older and raised, he’s very much a family man, as is his dad, as is his brothers. I think at some point, general manager is in his future. I do because he knows it so well, but I just don’t think it’s now because his kids are young. And can I can I can I throw a theory out? Um, yeah. Theory, G, then we’ll do some super. Um, the theory is, you know, the first time they wanted Kevin when they hired Hugh Jackson, I think they hired Kevin. They wanted Kevin Stfansky. Uh, but they hired they wanted McDermott. They they wanted Mcder and then Paul wanted McDermott. And then they did Paul wanted Stfansky a year prior to that. Yes. When they hired Freddy. Okay. And they they passed on him. You you you said a story about Josh McDaniels. Do you think that they would go back and question and say Josh McDaniels said, “I want complete control. Fire everybody.” Do you think that if in the case happened where they looking at a coach, do you think they would consider him? I would consider him. No, I would not do that. No. Personally, I I that that’s run its course. He’s already had two shots of running it his way and it hasn’t worked too. And it was nasty work. And and we get hung up on the big names and a lot of times it’s not the big names that work out the best. Uh, but I, you know, I I truly believe like the the Artel and Bob Myers model was so unorthodox at the time. It’s like, what were you doing hiring an agent to run your organization? Yeah. Well, who knows the league better than the agents? And it’s a money and cent. It’s a dollar and cents game. Yeah. And they know it. They know it inside and out. Yeah. So, I I I don’t know. I just I I’m exasperated at this point. They’ve tried I’ll throw a name out for how you fix the organization where you start. Um, and it it’s not for the coach. for the general manager, but I do think Joe Thomas is a smart enough guy. You make a great general manager. I’ve thought about him. I was thinking about him just a few minutes ago. Number one, I think you I don’t know. John Lynch had no experience, right? He just walked in off the street. John was doing uh TV TV, right? And the people would give him time. They they brings with him a cash but Shanahan and Lynch kind of work together. They and and Shanahan was first. They give him time. The I agree what we I think the head coach is more important in football. I think a head coach is more important. They’re obviously the GM is very important. Sure. I think the head coach is more important. You got to get you got to fix that first. I agree. I agree. And then marry the GM who goes with him. But Joe is Joe Joe is just when you listen to him talk about the games. But I put Joe in in the Payton category. Why would he want to do this? Well, you know, Joe, we asked Joe a couple of years ago, why aren’t you coaching? I don’t want to coach. I want to be with my kids. Then he takes the job in Germany. Yeah. When he was I know he did. I know he did. But but that’s not the time commitment that the NFL is. No, I mean I mean this stuff ages. You made time for us during a a week a preparation week. And he was putting in the time. It consumes your life. And I don’t I don’t think he has I don’t I’ve never I don’t know him that well. I I don’t know. I would be surprised if he had the desire to be a GM right now. All right. We got super chats to wrap up today’s show. Today’s super chats are brought to us by our friends at Pelon. I’m Cody Work from Lockdown Broncos and this episode is brought to you by Pelaton. 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Got a bunch. We’ll read through as many as we can. OG Powers says, “I would rather listen to Nick Cannon’s entire music catalog than watch this Browns offense another week.” Whoa, Nickang, bro. Neil Gray says, “Hasam is responsible for this tanking 2.0 and 0 for supporting Stfansky coaching record and decision for the past two years. No coach is so stubbornly stupid to be starting a backup quarterback as a starter. Crazy work. OG Power says tickets for sale 80% off. Not watching this. Five Fiber Tyx says a minute 44 left in the first. Browns had 22 plays for 87 yards. The Jets had three plays for two yards, but the Jets were up 14 to7. Uh, he also says the first 14 points were given up while the Jets offense and defense were on the sidelines. # we’re the Cleveland Browns. Armac dog says, “This is some nasty business watching the Browns offense. It’s worse than listening to Carl Lewis in the national anthem.” Trizy in the Money says, “Guys, this is why Shadore fans are so rabid. You have a guy who’s done nothing wrong, worked hard, highly right out of college, and Tyler Shook saw the field before him and DG is trash.” Rumor is the Sean Shook was drafted in the second round though. Mount practice against 12. Doesn’t matter. Homer GF says Dart and Shook both looked Shook, excuse me, both looked pretty good yesterday. Rudy Hright says, “Imagine being the circus of the NFL and the guy you said was the circus hasn’t sniffed a field yet. This is Barnaman Bailey every week.” Dogbound says, “Shwarz, Flores, McCarthy, or Gruden. Pay Dorsy.” Emanuel Johnson feel for Shadore. Dylan’s awful. Yet folks swear Shador is worse. This organization botched quarterback for decades. But reporters act like their word is gospel. Ready, set, soulfree says G. Bush. If he holds anyone else accountable, he would then have to hold his quarterback accountable and that would be counterproductive to starting him again. Ruby Wright says, “Fan base so trash they’re still comparing a preseason game to real life game reps on national TV during the regular season with everyone watching.” Hazy Eye Publishing said, “Why did you guys scoff at my idea as Mike McCarthy as your next head coach?” No. He stinks. Wow. Um, he’s had a he’s had a checkered. Give me a I want a second opportunity guy with some upside. I mean, your your Flores, I like Brian Flores. Flores pick seems more and more every time I think about it, it seems more and more um I like the idea of a defensive hard ass coach. I do too. He’s had an opportunity before and then you h and then you get then you get the young play caller to to be the offensive play caller. Yeah. And then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I like the I like his style of defense. It’s aggressive too. I was like, did you do you know something we don’t? Is he available? I think Brian Flores is a Dan Campbell type. I think he’s of that mold. I think he’s a brim. You know, I mean, we don’t know that. He He reminds me of of a of a a meaner Mike Tomlin. I don’t know if that’s possible. like he’s not going Oh, he he worked with Tom. Another name uh been brought up at least a couple times in connection with the Browns is Clint Kubak, the OC in Seattle, who’s done a really really really nice job with Sam Durham. But again, say he interviewed he interviewed last year. Mike just did what everybody does and it’s no offense to you because we all do this. We assume because a guy’s done a nice job as a coordinator that means he’s going to be a good head coach. You know, that’s what happens. One thing I said a name that’s going to be tied to the Brown. I didn’t say that’s who I’d pick. I just said it’s a name that you’re going to hear because I I don’t want another He’s done a good job with Seattle. He’s never been a head coach before. No, he hasn’t. I’m just He’s done a nice job as coordinator. That should not on its own qualify you to be a head coach. This is your premium. I’m not advocating for that to I’m just saying that’s a name that you’re going to hear. It’s a name. And by the way, the the the high-flying offensive coordinator is by default what people just attached to. That’s just the Seahawks offense. Is Doug Peterson on either anybody’s radar here? Like would would you guys be interested in Doug Peterson? Not really. He’s already It’s a guy that’s done it before. Well, he won a Super Bowl. Yeah. So did Mike McCarthy. Yeah. I mean, yeah, but I don’t think Peterson to me seems younger than Mike McCarthy. Maybe I’m He is. I think I want a guy that’s I hate to do this because it’s agism, but I want a guy that’s 52 or Yeah. I don’t want a young I don’t want an old guy. I don’t want someone who’s 66. No. You know, I know Indiana’s all excited about Signetti. Well, that dude’s been around forever. So what? They’re winning. I know, but he’s winning. But I I just want to I want to be able to think like this is sustainable for a decade. Are you guys willing to look at a college guy? No, not for me. What about Brian Hartline? Brian Brian Brian told me this is going to blow your mind. Uh when we had him on, remember for the one of the funniest episodes we’ve ever had, I I called him afterwards to talk about his appearance and we were talking about head coaching positions. We got to get him back on and yes, we do. And I and his name’s popped up obviously at Penn State and some others, but I asked him that seems like the next jump. And he he’s like, you know, I just don’t see going to Purdue or W. That’s not what I want to do. And I said, okay, so what is it for you? dude. He goes, “I I want to coach in the NFL.” And I said, “As a head coach?” He’s like, “Yeah, as a head coach.” And so what I liked about him was he was supremely confident. He knows the NFL. He had success in the NFL. He’s had success, a lot of success as a coordinator. His next step would be an OC in the NFL. I And I think that, too. But I wonder if if he’s thinks that he could make the jump from offensive coordinator at Ohio State. be a disaster. The wide receiver, I don’t know that it would be a disaster. I don’t know. What I do know about Brian is he’s smart and his players freaking play for him. Yeah. And he’s the best recruiter. Hir hiring I couldn’t I couldn’t say out of p like right away like, oh, that’d be a disaster. Hiring a guy that that has has been a coordinator for one year in college to be a head coach in the NFL. I’d rather give him to Tommy Reese. Doesn’t doesn’t sound feasible. No. But all right, next super chat. 80s Brazil says Browns don’t understand the value of Shadore’s fan base. They’re fuming. It’s other countries backing the Sanders family, but whatever. Trade Shador in April. Watch us work. Free 12. You’ll float too says, “I broke up with my woman because of the Browns.” Evan 419 says, “The Patriots drafted Drake May with zero receivers and an awful offensive line. How are they looking right now?” Exactly. This idea that you got to wait to build the other rest of the team is stupid. You have a chance to get the quarterback, you get the quarterback. If the quarterback is there, yes, you take the quarterback every time. And they do have Stephan. He’s right. They do have they do have Stephanie. Now they do. But when they drafted him, they had nothing. No, they started they started Jacobe Brassette for the first six or seven games because they were scared Drake May wouldn’t last through the season because of how bad the offensive line was. Yeah, their line was pathetic. If the quarterback is there that you like, you take always no matter what the rest of the team. If the quarterback’s not there, that’s force. You don’t force it. Daryl Green says, “How come when I watch Defansky’s press conferences, I see Hugh Jackson’s face when he says, “We got to do better. One in 31 verse 5 and 23.” Yeah. Boycott’s boycott the press conference. Brody’s bottom line says, “Let’s be honest, Kevin doesn’t want to play Shadore.” Oh, that’s pretty obvious. That’s very evident. That’s not a I don’t think anyone disagree. Nobody’s going to dis disagree with that. Ready, set, soulfree says Mary Kay asked Dylan what he thought about Kevin saying he will start the next game. He said doing the same thing over and over is insanity. That’s not true. Of course. Well, he he basically No. So, basically what he said is, you know, if you’re not getting the job done as a quarterback and you know, if I keep coming out playing, you know, bad, I’m paraphrasing here. If I come out play bad is doing, what do you expect? like you know Miles Garrett had was asked about it too and he kind of he was Did you guys see this? He said it’s up to I kind of want my guy to lose confidence. Yeah. Yeah. How could it? Uh Brad Shrek says is it possible for the Hazams to relocate this team anywhere and for Cleveland to be grand. I think we should just I think what we need to do honestly is combine the Bengals and Browns into one team. Take the Bengals offense and the Browns defense and you’d have a really great team. I mean let’s do That’d be crazy. Uh, let’s fire both coaches and get Ohio Brungles. The Ohio Brungles. Let’s do it. Easy Skrils. Davis Mills would be better in our offense. Not Mongle. Nice comeback by David Mills. 26 points in the fourth quarter. That was insane. Yeah, of course. Seven of them were by the defense. And by and by the way, how’s about all those pe I need to see every every single scout evaluator that said Trevor Lawrence was was the the best prospect since luck and airway. Well, he even had a successful year in the NFL. And this just I mean this just an average guy just a guy just a guy. You know what he is? He’s a jack. And that’s who he got drafted by. Akan Hot Saucer says Miles can say all he wants but this team has quit. This is the most pathetic football team out there. I don’t know about the quit part, but the pathetic long hair don’t care says waited for Jay Crawford to explain why G. Bush’s Denver coach over players take was legit. Shawn Payeyton was given an awful Wilson quarterback contract on an awful team. Was able to identify a quarterback and win in two years. Listen, I think even G’s admitted now that was his worst take ever. Have you That wasn’t even a crazy take. I I all All I think he got backed into it and he couldn’t wiggle off. All All I needed to do is make it debatable. That’s all I had to do. I don’t even think you did that. Hey, listen. I’m glad I was in Maine. It was a 2-1. It was a 2-1 lock, but but there are people out there that will look at it say debatable. I’ll do, you know what I’m saying? That’s the way you do that. Uh, last one. Beautifully blessed says, “I think Dylan is robotically throwing to wherever the play hit in practice.” And that’s why there are so many balls going to go. We’ll see you in overtime. Peace. [Music]

We cannot believe the Browns lost to the Jets. Is it all Kevin Stefanski’s fault?

Is there any chance Bubba Ventrone survives the season?

Did Dillon Gabriel look better with Tommy Rees calling plays?

Luis Ortiz and Emmanuel Clase are in BIG TROUBLE after the latest DOJ indictments.

#browns #clevelandbrownsnews #clevelandbrowns #nfl #nba #cavs #basketball #cavsnation #clevelandcavaliers
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