What We’re Hearing About Mets, Yankees at GM Meetings + Tom Verducci Joins! | The Show Ep. 177

What We’re Hearing About Mets, Yankees at GM Meetings + Tom Verducci Joins! | The Show Ep. 177

By the way, who do you guys got tomorrow night? Judge or Raleigh? Not your pick, but who’s gonna win? I think Judge will win. I think he wins. I’m with you. 40. I think he wins kind of easily. Really? Not in a blowout, but like maybe twothirds. I haven’t asked anyone. I would actually pro I mean, I didn’t study it. I probably would vote vote for Raleigh because I just think catching it so just so hard and it’s so valuable to have that catcher. But I mean I it’s to me it’s basically a coin flip in my mind. I think the general consensus kind of leans toward Judge I think and I I don’t blame it. That’s the feeling I get. You know I was on Judge and I think the numbers just mathematically are overwhelmingly in his favor. But then when I was covering the Mariners in the postseason and watching Raleigh every day and how much he means to that team. I mean that guy is more than just a good catcher. He he runs the game from behind the plate and he switch hits 60 home runs. It’s crazy. And it’s never been tougher to do that job. Good point. You’re right. You know, like physically. Yeah. To cut catch velocity, spin, to have an individual game plan for every hitter for each plate appearance mentally. And he is he led the American League in innings catching. It wasn’t like, oh my goodness, he’s just kind of like a part-time catcher. I think there’s a great It’s interesting. There was a bunch of us at dinner last night playing under over in a casino. How many votes Raleigh got? And I set it at 11 and a half for I think you’re about right. Yeah. Yeah. And I took because I took 12. I think he’s going to get 12 first place. It’s underrated how valuable it is to have a catcher who hits. I think the four best hitting catchers were the final four teams. Now that may just be coincidental, but if you look at Buster Posy’s career, I mean Mike Piaza, if he could catch it all or throw it all, you know, they won a lot of games. He didn’t end up winning the World Series, but I think it’s very very val because a lot of teams have catchers who are not, you know, like uh I mean the Cleveland guy’s anam big, you know, scream example, but they have catch the average OPS plus is like was like 90 this year thanks to Raleigh, but normally it’s below 90. So, uh you got one a catcher with a 150 or 160. I think it’s a huge deal. Our friend uh Tom Verduchi is joining us, John, uh to discuss probably the end of the season, which was great, the World Series, and where we are now in the hot stove. Yeah, I’m looking forward to hearing from Tom. Very eloquent spokesman. Uh you see him on TV all the time at MLB Network, on Fox, and uh I’ve worked with him in three places. He’s been a better writer than me in all three places. Uh and he’s terrific commenting on uh baseball. Well, he knows the in ins and outs and uh I think it’s the first time we’ve actually had Tom on. So, I’m really looking forward to this. Yeah, Tom’s wrap-up of the World Series every year in Sports Illustrated. It is one of the highlights of writing, sports writing, baseball writing every year. Everyone should give that a read and we’ll talk to him about that and more. Uh John and I are going to trigger the hot stove lots on the Mets and Yankees. We’ll play Hit and error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Hay. John, we’re both in Vegas. We’re both in our hotel room. The final day of the general managers meetings is today, Wednesday. Uh, very little action so far. We’re getting the sparring. I’m getting a feeling that there’s a lot of teams that would actually like to spend some money this off season and uh go for it a little more than maybe traditional beyond the, you know, Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, etc. you know, we’re hearing about lots and lots of teams, Toronto, Seattle, Boston, even Pittsburgh, Miami a little bit, etc. Uh, obviously the New York teams are going to be active. Uh, why don’t we start with the Mets just because David Sterns is actually here and did speak on Tuesday to a group of reporters. Um, I thought the am I strange to think that the most interesting thing he said in that period, John, was that center field, uh, Carson Benj is going to come into spring training with a chance to make the team. The Mets do not have an obvious center fielder. You know, David Sterns loves Tyrone Taylor and mentioned him again for the center field job. I mean, if Tyron Taylor is anything more than your fourth or fifth outfielder and you’re the Mets with a $300 million payroll going into the season, I think you’ve probably failed again uh to address the the situation. Do you think that Carson Benj is the Bubba Bubba Crosby of this off season and you so that you don’t seem desperate that you need to figure out a center fielder between now and the uh beginning of the regular season? or do you think this is David Sterns? He’s going to open up jobs for young players and give it a go. Yeah, I you know, I’m not going to say he’s the cross, was it Bubba Crosby? Was that the guy’s name? I don’t I mean, this guy’s a legit top prospect. Yeah, he’s going to be a great player at some point. I mean, obviously, right, he’s a top prospect. Um, but I I can’t see how they don’t get a center fielder, right? Um, I at this point, uh, Benj hasn’t had a a a lot of reps in the minor leagues. So, uh, I think that would be a little bit shocking if they didn’t go out and get some kind of a center fielder who could at least tide them over until Benj is ready. Uh, I, you know, I think they’re talking to Bellinger. They will be talking to Bellinger anyway. And, uh, you know, that’s a guy who really fits the team. Uh, you know, this is not a small market team. This is a big big, not only big market, but a big spending team. I’m sure Steve Con isn’t happy the way last year’s team uh performed. It was a disaster. Uh I know, you know, when you win more than you lose, it’s still a disaster if you have a $340 million payroll with the expectations that they had. I think that’ll be a major disappointment if they don’t come in with a center fielder. Uh they got a lot of work to do. I mean, they really do with the the it’s not just run prevention, it’s everything. You know, two out of their best four players are now free agents, right? Diaz and Alonzo. And he talked about how they’d like to have them back, but uh the reality is they don’t have them back now, and they don’t have a right-handed uh power threat who’s going to start for the team, and they don’t have a closer, and they don’t really have much of a bullpen, and they don’t have a center fielder. Uh they got a lot of work to do. Fortunately, I think I think David Sterns knows what he’s doing. Obviously, one out of two years has been great so far with the Mets. So, obviously, it hasn’t been perfect. Steve Con willing to spend. I I’m not buying that Carson Bench is going to go in as a a someone with a great chance to win the starting job in center field. You know, John, you kind of took me a place I wanted to talk to you you about, which is, uh, last year at this time, the Mets not only were coming off of making it to game six of the NLCS, uh, and really having this kind of grow great grimace, OMG, good vibe, good success on the field. uh they felt like they were very much set up for the near future, especially they then go and spend 765 million on sodo uh at the winter meetings. Uh it felt like they were heading to a good place. Um I don’t think they’re necessarily heading to a bad place, but at best they’re in a similar situation. Can you say you’re in a similar situation with a better farm system in Sodto? Uh and some of these young pitchers breaking through. Uh I I get it. That’s what David Sterns proposed yesterday. But John, I hear what you say and I feel it also, which is you’re coming off of a bad year where you’re looking around and now you start worrying about the age of NMO and Lindor. You worry about the defensive flexibility once Sodto is always in right field and all these places that that you John, I think you glanced on it. It’s not just Yes. They’ve got to rebuild an entire bullpen. I mean, they’ve got to bring in like five or six new arms to this. They don’t have a right-hand reliever they like on the roster right now. I don’t hear about Alaska Brazaban. You know, this they’ve got a lot of work to do for a team that 12 months ago we felt really good about. Do you feel worse about the team today? Well, certainly you felt great about the team a year ago and they went to the LCS. They played decently against the Dodgers. Uh they won more games against the Dodgers than the Yankees did in their series. uh they had rallied. It looked like Ventos was going to be at least a hitting star. Um he clearly took a step back for whatever reason last year. Um yeah, I bet there two good things that they have going for him. They have Steve Con’s uh willingness to spend and the fact that he has a big payroll. That’s that’s I’m going to count that as one thing. And the other thing is they do have great prospects, right? They are ranked high for whatever that means. the rankings don’t always come to fruition, but they’ve got four five guys who are really, you know, top 100 prospects or maybe even more than that. Uh, Mlan looked great. Uh, I think Tong has potential. Maybe needs to get a breaking ball. Certainly an important thing. Sprro looked good. Uh, so I mean there are some positives, but you know, I’m pointing out some positives now as kind of a just a counter a little bit. Uh, and I I believe there are these positives, but in the short term, it does not look great, right? I mean, we’re missing whole positions. We’re missing a whole bull basically a whole bullpen. So, I I think they look better in the long term than the short term, you know. And John, I’ve got to say one of the things that makes me feel suspicious, leery, is I think we both have high regard for David Sterns, but essentially he’s now one for two in off seasons and he has a lot of lot to do here and as much and I of course agree with you that having Steve Con’s wallet has great benefits, but he isn’t going to solve everything on the Juan Sodto level. uh he’s gonna have to get the secondary stuff right that he didn’t get right last year. He’s going to have to prove that, you know, outside of the Brewer Foundation, you know, the structure which he helped create, but maybe there were support staff there that were really important in what they did, he’s going to have to prove that he’s kind of the wizard who can bring this and make it work on a pretty annual basis. John, before we flip to Yankees, let’s let’s deal with the one last thing with the Mets because it’s kind of the most important thing with the Mets this off seasonason and you’ve mentioned it a bunch of times. You you said they were two of the four best players on the team and that’s Alonzo and Diaz and where you think we’re headed right now. John, if I had to make a case, I actually think they need Diaz more than Alonzo. And that’s no rip on Pete Alonzo, who is second in RBI’s in the majors, fifth in extra base hits, eighth in homers. He is in a time where it’s hard to hit the a ball. He is just below the best home run hitters in the sport, which is to say he’s the top five homer hitter, you know, for consistency. Uh he could hit, he could hit, he could hit. But I just don’t know how the Mets function if they don’t kind of throw the anchor of their bullpen back in and build around it when they have to do so much else. Yeah, you can’t argue with that. I mean, Diaz was the best reliever certainly in the National League. He’s going to win the uh right here in Las Vegas. They’re going to have an awards for the top relievers. He’s clearly going to win the award for the top reliever in the National League. There’s really no negative to uh a great closer. So, obviously, I can’t really argue with that, but I am wondering what they’re going to do if Alonzo is not retained. You know, uh he did hit 38 home runs. He did have 126 RBI’s. He is right-handed, right? Their better hitters, the other better hitters right now, the only great hitters are left-handed on this team, right? you’ve who are starters, right? We’ve got uh Sodto, we have NMO, uh and of course Lindor better left-handed and hits more often left-handed than right-handed. Uh you know, obviously Alvarez has got potential. Vientos, I think he can regain uh something and get back out there and do something important, but to come in with Ventos and Alvarez as your right-handed threats and that’s it. Uh you know, can’t do that. I’m just not sure where do they go to replace Alonzo. I’m looking at that first base list. You got some lefty bats, you’ve got some aging righty bats. You don’t really have anybody who can replace Alonzo. Do they do it in multiple other areas and figure it out? I don’t know. But I mean, yeah, I can’t argue that Diaz uh is a a bigger uh need at this moment than Alonzo. Yeah. So, uh flip over because you mentioned the biggest name um uh Just for so the listeners, viewers know, Brian Kman is not at these uh winter meetings. He’s said to have a personal issue that he is addressing. I believe he’s going to talk to reporters uh via maybe a Zoom today, but like no Yankee official has talked. Obviously, John and I still on background talk to Yankee officials uh get a flavor of what’s going on. And you mentioned the big thing, their winter falls into place if they could re resign Bellinger. Uh like it feels it’s not perfect. They still have a lot to do, but if they resign Bellinger, they could line up a team for next year. And so then they’re just building around what was a pretty strong team, a 94 win team. I think I don’t know if you agree with me. It feels like if we played the American League playoffs a h 100red times. Uh the Yankees would go to the World Series 15 or so times of that 20 like they were good. There was a real toss up in the American League at the top. So they have a good core that that stays that way if they could keep Bellinger. I sense they’re not on Tucker. I you know will they talk? Yeah, the Yankees talk to everyone. I don’t think Hal Steinbrer is in the $400 million business again. I think he wants to drive this payroll under $300 million. John, take that wherever you want. I think I think Bellinger is so kind of one 1A 1B 1C for them to get done to then kind of be like, okay, how much money do we have left? What else do we want to address next? Yeah, first on Tucker. To me, it makes no sense. Now, of course, in free agency, you never know what’s going to happen. I don’t see how Tucker is really a fit. They already have the best right fielder in the game. Certainly, you know, you could put Tucker at left field or figure it out. Something like that. Maybe he could even play center, but I I don’t see him adding that kind of money to the payroll, particularly when they And I’m with you. You said last week you mentioned a starting pitcher. It would be nice for them to get a starting pitcher. I’ve heard they liked Ei. That would be a big expense, but I I think that would being I I wouldn’t wouldn’t say luxury. I think they could use a good starting pitcher. Uh and and beyond that, what’s their bullpen? The bullpen was not very good last year overall and they’re losing Weaver and Williams. Now, obviously, they had some bad moments, too, but these are talented pitchers. Uh Williams was great in the past for the Brewers. He looked better at the end for the Yankees. Uh Weaver uh had some good moments last year, was really good the year before. Uh these are two losses. I may maybe people will say, well, they weren’t great last year, and that’s fair, but the bullpen wasn’t great either. And and they definitely need to augment the bullpen. They need to, I believe, and I’m with you on this. You’ve come to uh convince me on this. Uh they do need a starter as well. Those are bigger needs uh than Tucker. Let’s see what Spencer Jones can beat. Can Dominguez be better? Can he play center field? Maybe. I don’t think Beller is is as imperative as Diaz is for the Mets or even Alonzo is is for the Mets. Uh you know, I I maybe Spencer Jones can do it. May maybe he can. He’s got great speed. He’s got power. Obviously, he’s been a was a little bit up and down last year. Had a great few weeks and then slumped after that. But, uh, you know, I’m not going to say, and I think it’s dangerous if you say we have to get this guy. I’m not going to say that. I I think he’s a good fit for them. I think he’s a even better fit for the Mets. Um, but I, you know, I I think they’re probably are alternatives there for the Yankees. Uh, the pitching is where I would go for the Yankees. if they, you know, if they don’t get Bellinger, they already had the best offense in baseball. You can live with the third best offense in baseball. Uh, the pitching needs to be better. So, John, I I I on the pitching, you know, I agree because we discussed it. I wrote a column about it this week. You convinced me. Yeah, you convinced me. I I think I think that my sense is they see it as a place to get a picture. I know you mentioned Emi. Uh, I I get a stronger feeling they want to kind of like plug and play a pitcher, you know, like like if it’s somebody from Japan, it might be somebody who’s coming back from Japan like Cody Pon or or Anthony K, like one of And by the way, I don’t want aggregators to do it. I haven’t heard they’re tied, but somebody you can imagine beginning not costing a ton, beginning the season in the rotation, and if everything went perfect would be able to flow into the bullpen as the year went on. I don’t think that’s their need. I think believing that your starting pitching is all going to go perfect, that the four healthy guys now, the Schlit Lawir and Freed Hill are going to stay healthy through spring training in the beginning of the season. Cole and Rodon are just going to show up on May 1st. It’s going to go perfect. The young guys in the minor leagues, you know, like Elmer Cruz Rodriguez and Carlos Lrange are going to be like Schlitler last year and just take off and be ready on the day you think they’re going to be ready. and Clark Schmidt’s going to be sitting there as their July 31st trade on August 1st ready to come back from Tommy John surgery and this all just gonna go like this and be fine. I think that’s a mistake for a top tier team. I think you got to go out and get a starter and if you ever have an uncomfortable situation as the season’s going along, figure it out. But I would go get a a real starting pitcher as part of this off season and not get in a situation where you’re looking left and right and dealing with whoever the Allen Weinens is of uh of the minute. Um John, you as a as a way to finish this. Um we you you mentioned the bullpen. Uh the bullpen is going to like the the bullpen’s a little bit at this time of year like it is at the July 31st trade deadline. Everyone could convince themselves they need one or two. I’m with you. The Yankees need no fewer than two. It would be great if one of them was a power lefty to kind of complement the finesse lefty of Tim Hill. Um do you assume that the way things went I I I have two thought questions for you again as somebody who reads the market. Well, I sense Devin Williams is done with the Yankees. Uh uh do you and do you think there’s any chance that a plan B that if if Cody Bellinger is suddenly a Met or a Philly or a Dodger could plan B be at all? Well, let’s sign Edwin Diaz and like be great at the end. Then you have Bedar and Diaz for the last six outs. And with Bednar ready to be a free agent after 2026, you have your answer for a while back there. Yeah, I mean I’m not ruling much out in in uh free agency. Anything can happen. I’m kind of with you on Williams. I think he got more comfortable as things went, but he can get a closing role elsewhere. We saw that the Dodgers via the Athletic are interested once again. They were last winter. Uh you know, if you got a choice of the Dodgers or anyone else, not no knock on the Yankees, you got a good chance of picking the Dodgers. Uh he didn’t have a choice last time. Word was he would have liked to have gone to the Dodgers. Yankees probably weren’t number one on his list due to the beard situation. They rectified that for him. Uh he still didn’t seem too comfortable until the last several weeks of the season. So, I could see that. I I mean, I’m not going to advocate against anybody getting Diaz, any big market team. He was the best closer in in baseball last year. U and Chapman was pretty good, too. They’re obviously not getting Chapman. He’s on the Red Sox and doesn’t really love the Yankees anyway. Um I you know, I think Diaz uh you know would be great. Uh certainly uh with Bednar uh I I think that’s probably not a great chance of happening. I think they like what Bedar did. Uh they there are a ton of guys out there who closed uh in the past and have been good closers. Uh whether it be Suarez or Keller or Kenley Jansen. Uh but there the the I know people are knocking this free agent list. I think overall it’s decent. Obviously there’s no Otani, there’s no Sodto, but I think overall it’s decent. But it’s great in the relief pitching and I they should be able to do bulk up that uh relief core which I think would be imperative and they obviously need a left-hander. I mean you can’t Tim El did well. He was good. He’s a good pitcher. It’s a good bargain at 3 million. Uh they uh need a left-hander. I don’t think there’s any question about that. Yeah. Uh you know, John, you mentioned the name that I would use uh to finish this block, which is Chapman and also maybe Zack Britain. I think the Yankees didn’t like the experience of having top of the market closure money guys on the roster and they always feel they’ll find their Klay Holmes Luke Weaver kind of guy there. So, I suspect they’ll use their money in another way. Of course, it’s all TBD. Uh what we know right now is joining us next on the show is our friend, our partner at MLB Network, plus Fox and Sports Illustrated, Tom Feduchi. He joins us next on the show. John and I are so thrilled to be joined by our friend, our colleague at MLB Network. He’s also at Fox Sports, uh longtime Sports Illustrated writer, and uh Tom’s up for the Lifetime Achievement uh award for uh baseball writer this offseason. He’s one of the three people on the ballot. He should be uh the Hall of Famer from this group. It should have happened a long time ago uh because he’s one of the best among us. Tom, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Uh Tom, I do think one of the highlights of the World Series is I think you’ve taken the baton pass from Roger Angel, and your wrap-up of the World Series is a must-read. Uh at the end, uh you could kind of like relive it all. And so, I almost want to ask a broad question. We’re a few weeks beyond what was a thrilling World Series and a memorable World Series on a bunch of uh different levels. You know, the Dodgers winning two stunning games uh to finish this when it felt like the Blue Jays outplayed them in every way for for about seven games. With some reflection time now, what what sticks out to you about this? Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for that. Roger Angel, there’s no higher compliment in my book. uh the master of baseball writing, just writing in general. Um what stands out to me is I have a hard time in my head saying this was the best World Series ever because I think I just need to let it sit for a while. But I Joel, I can definitely tell you it’s in the conversation. I mean, it’s hard for me to top 2016 because of the history the Cubs and at that time the Indians brought into that game and of course that 17-minute pregnant pause of a rain delay, tie game, ninth inning, game seven World Series. It was just so dramatic. But this was different in a way that I think it captured a lot of casual fans. Like the ratings were really good for this World Series and you thought a Canadian team, the Dodgers, you know, been there, done that, back again. But I think the games were so compelling, and this is what stands out to me. As far as a World Series that went back and forth where you changed your mind almost like an on an hourly basis who was going to win the World Series, especially in game seven, it may be the best that I’ve ever seen because it was dramatic uh on almost an inningby-inninging basis. I can’t remember a series where there’s so many, you know, great defensive plays, base running plays. I love the fact that the Blue Jays put the ball in play so much. would made the pace of the game so good. So, yeah, in terms of drama and the way the game was played, I think this has got to be one of the best, at least that I’ve seen. You mentioned all the great plays, all the excitement at the end, particularly game seven. What What What’s one or two that really stand out for you? I mean, there are some obvious ones in my mind, but I’d like to hear your perspective on uh really I mean, there were three or four plays that really would have won it for Toronto, it felt like, but what stands out for you and why? Yeah, I agree. For me, the number one is the Rojas home run. Miguel Rohos is batting and everybody’s kind of paying attention to the guy on deck, showani, and you’re thinking, at least I was, there’s no way that Jeff Hoffman can walk Miguel Rojos. You just have to groove a pitch down the middle of the plate. Now, I would never groove a slider on a 3-2 to Miguel Rohos. That has to be a fast ball. Not expecting home run there at all. A little uh reminiscent of the Raji Davis home run right against a worldless Chapman. Not the kind of guy you’re thinking home run. Base hit maybe double. Okay. Uh that was just flat out stunning. And I hated the 3-2 slider from Hoffman. You know, the the crowd just, you know, you guys were there. you know that they were on the verge of winning the World Series there and just have it taken away. I thought after the home run the Dodgers were going to win that game. It was just a feeling that I had that this this team was not going to be denied getting it to extra innings. And then of course the the Pah catch in center field. I mean guys I’m next to the dugout there when the bases are loaded one out. Pas is sitting next to me with his hoodie on. He’s as engaged in the game as I am at that point. And Danny Leman, the bench coach, comes running down and basically says, “Get your butt in the game.” And it’s like, “Where’s my glove? Take the hoodie off. Where’s my hat?” I mean, it’s like they pull the guy out of the stands. And of course, baseball the way it is, the ball actually finds him. They put him in obviously because he had the better arm than Tommy Edmond protecting the sacrifice fly situation, but the next batter hits that fly ball. I didn’t think Kik Hernandez is going to catch it. I mean, if he did, I mean, that was twice the Willie Mays catch going over his head, running back face first towards the wall. I I really was paying attention to Kik and didn’t see in real time Pah flying in there until the very end. I could not believe it. And then seeing the replay, he was actually playing shallow center field. He ran 121 ft and then jumped in the air over his left fielder. It’s just an amazing play. Uh, listen, Willie Mays is Willie Mays. The catch is historic in 54. I actually think given the circumstances, because that was game one, that catch in 54. I think it’s the greatest catch in World Series history. It’s certainly the best that I’ve seen. Uh, with everything on the line, he saved the World Series. He doesn’t catch that ball. Ernie Clement is a World Series legend. He’s the MVP. And the Blue Jays have the first World Championship in 32 years. Historychanging catch. I was blown away by that. You know, Tom, it does stand out to me. You know, we you’re mentioning Pahes off the bench. Uh, Miguel Rojos, just the way you began your story. I’m trying to remember. I think you mentioned I don’t think there was a period he hadn’t started in 26 days. He didn’t have a hit for like 31. To me, he was he’s like the modern Louis Soho. He could just like do nothing for a month and field everything and put the bat on the ball. And Soho had a winning hit obviously in the World Series also. And we’re talking about small players on this behemoth, Andy Pahz and Miguel Rojas. So, why don’t I ask you the killer question that got asked from it’s been really asked for two years, but especially this year. Are the Dodgers ruining baseball because they they’re doing that and they got the guy as you mentioned the guy on deck which everyone had their eye on and Yamamoto who did Randy Johnsones stuff in this World Series and I’m assuming Sasaki will be great at some point also and who knows who they get this off season from the Kyle Tucker Edwin Diaz uh line. Take it where you want, Tom. Are they ruining baseball? Uh, no. I think it’s great for the game. I think um they’re a model for everybody else in baseball. Of course, they have more resources than everybody else. I get it. Who else has two charter planes during the course of the season, right? The players have their own plane staff and and uh coaches and analysts and whatnot on another. I don’t think anybody else does that. Uh the way they draft and develop throughout the minor leagues, that’s a model. It’s not just they have money to spend. Yeah, that’s a huge advantage. I get it. But you bring up a good point. I love the Soho comparison as well. Let’s face it, when you’re playing a baseball game, you can’t call timeout and have your best hitter go up there and take the atbat. And that was Rojos hitting the nine hole, right? I love the fact that given all their resources, it comes down to after game five, Dodgers are one out away or one game away from losing the World Series. And Dave Roberts tells Miguel Rojos, you’re playing game six. Now, there was no reason to play him. He hadn’t had a base hit literally in a month, but he said, this guy means so much to the team. He’s our glue guy. He’s been a great teammate all year. I love the energy that he brings. I’m not losing the World Series without at least giving him a chance to play. Now, there was nobody in the analytics department who told Dave Roberts, “Hey, this guy’s got great numbers against this pitcher. He needs to play.” No, it was just a gut feeling by Dave Roberts, and I love the fact that based on what Mickey Roas gave them all year long, he put him in the lineup. Not expecting a home run, of course. Uh, but I love those kind of stories. And Pas, the guy who was what, four for 50 or something in the postseason. I mean, an automatic out. Uh, and he gives us an all-time moment. So, the Dodgers do cover a lot of mistakes, if you will, and especially with injuries, with depth, and and I get that. Um, but I I think you look at this team, the way they run things, the way they cover themselves in the minor league system that they have, and they’ve done a great job if you look at their drafts, especially with pitchers, finding guys who are available later in the round, and just their player development machine, you know, makes them better than everybody thinks they are. I I think it’s great for the game. I think it is a modern dynasty. Um, you know, I I love the fact that this team stayed hungry and wanted to repeat and and that was something that you guys saw with the New York Yankees. They were never satisfied. They were always like trying to get there first. And I got the sense that that’s what the Dodgers felt this year. Yeah, I’m with you. They’re now running baseball. It’s a legit dynasty. I’m going to put you on the spot here because I loved your your story about Pah in the hoodie on the bench. You’ve got a unique perspective, I guess, along with Ken Rosenthal. So, it’s not 100% unique. Uh tell us what that’s like. I mean, we’re in the all at the games, but we’re just watching it. You’re actually on the bench. Uh what is that like? What are some of the unusual things if you can think of again I’m putting you on the spot here that you’ve seen? Do people are they interacting with you? Because you’re you’re the only non-emp employee that’s allowed there on the bench with the team. Yeah, actually it’s pretty cool. There’s a lot of times obviously people that I know, players, coaches, whoever that’s down there. Uh I can have a conversation with them. It’s usually not long, but maybe ask a question or just something that happened in the course of the game like you would turn to a buddy and say, “Hey, what about that play?” It’s not It doesn’t happen a lot, but it does happen. The perspective is really cool. I’ll give you one example. Uh watching Yamamoto in between innings. I don’t know any other starting pitcher who like never goes back into the clubhouse. He is always on the bench. And not only just on the bench, he’s always first sitting with Mark Prior and the translator uh his translator uh Yoshi Hiro uh Sabota translates and they go over the next three hitters coming up the next inning. He’s got his this book that he’s got with notations in Yamamoto does and he’s also writing in that book putting new entries in there and he’s referring to that book every single inning. He is so locked in and then he’ll get get up and he’ll pantomime his delivery in the dugout. It’s a unique I I think it’s one of the most efficient deliveries in baseball. He is so engaged. He like I said, he never goes back into the clubhouse. Unlike Otani, of course, we waited like what three or four minutes for him to come back to the mound there in game seven. Uh but watching guys habits like in between at bats, who’s talking to who. Uh Otani is really good as a leadoff hitter coming back and telling guys what he saw from the pitcher in his first at bat of a game. Uh Mookie Bets, same thing. Uh, I love to see the interaction among the players in the dugout. It’s really cool. It’s it does I wouldn’t say it’s it’s not rahrah like a college team, but it’s more like guys studying their iPads, sharing information, that type of stuff. You know, Tom, they they as being with them in so many October, especially the last two where they went the whole way. Uh, I agree with you and John. I don’t think they’re ruining baseball. I agree with you. I think they’re setting a path for what to do, including what you’re just talking about, which is how they behave on the bench. Yamamoto, and I look, I’ve mentioned this a bunch in a different forums, watching Mukie Betts and Freddy Freeman come out every game day, like four to five hours before a game, and take extra work. I mean, these are two guys going to Coopertown, and they’re going there mainly because of the other side of the ball, especially Freddy. And to just see these great players in their 30s in a workload era out there doing extra work to me it’s inspiring. Uh and I I I also made that analogy which is you know the thing with the Jeter Yankees was last year’s championship never mattered after the parade and these guys seem like they have the same mindset. I wonder as somebody who’s kind of obviously around him uh what what what you think about it all. I think that’s a great call and I think you watch Mookie Bets and way he turned himself from a goal glove right fielder into probably a goal glove shortstop but at least an elite defender at shortstop it’s amazing and it’s because of hard work he’s out there literally every day I mean even on the off days in the World Series he’s out there doing going through his progressions at shortstop it’s really impressive Freddy the best story I get Freddy when he first got to the Dodgers everybody had their own iPad and they’d come back and they would just get lost in their own iPad and Freddy said we have to have like a limit on iPads Let’s just have like four or five of them and let’s talk amongst ourselves rather than just burying our heads in a singular iPad. Uh great team player. Um yeah, I think the character of the team really stands out to me and it does take the veterans I think as leaders of the team. Uh and the Yankees as you mentioned had that. Uh so I don’t think they’re ruining baseball. I think I think it’s great for the game to have somebody that other teams can shoot for. And what’s interesting too, guys, is the way, you know, I don’t know that you can say they turned it on in October, but they certainly were the healthiest in October, right? And that I think was by design. It was a few years ago, if you remember, they we were talking about greatest team of all time. They ran up, I think, 111 wins, right? They they tried to max out their number of wins, get homefield advantage throughout. Well, the Padres’s knocked them out like in the first round. That’s what they got for 111 wins. It doesn’t get you much in the postseason. And I think they realized there it’s all about getting to October healthy. And remember, they had to go through the wild card route. No big deal. They played Cincinnati, got rid of them quickly. Was actually good for them, I thought. Uh but they realize now you don’t have to win a 100 games plus. And I think you look at baseball now, we’ve gone two straight years without anybody win 100 games. And I think that the message now is is workload management, especially with pitching. And the way they got their pitching to October healthy and on point, that was not a mistake. It was not a happen stance. This is the way they built it out during the course of the season. And uh again, they’re a model for baseball that way. I’m with you guys on Muki and Freddy. They’re outstanding. There’s another guy in the Dodgers who’s pretty good, who we really haven’t dived into yet. And Show Otani, of course, I’m talking about. You referred to him earlier. Uh what do you think? Can anybody duplicate what Show Otani is doing? I know we’ve had people try. Uh no one’s even come anywhere close. Uh show he’s one of a kind. You know, I know when he first came over here, people were saying this is going to open the door for other people to be two-way players. Uh you know, the Rays drafted a pitcher outfielder who they thought was going to be that. No, it’s just way too hard. I’m amazed with you guys. I actually thought after the 18 in game that Dave Roberts was just going to use him as the pitcher and not as the DH. I mean, to me, he looked spent. He was on base nine times in a six and a half hour game and he’s the starting pitcher the next day. Uh, and I remember talking to Dave Roberts and Showy hadn’t yet shown up. I said, “Is is Showy going to DH as well?” And he said, “Yeah, like why wouldn’t he? I don’t even have to check with him. I I know this is what he does and who he is. It’s amazing.” Now, I did think it finally caught up with him. I I really thought his stuff was was down a tick in that game. It was down a tick in game seven, pitching on short rest. The fact that he does it is just amazing to me. just the physical nature of what he does, just pitching alone and the recovery aspect of it is so hard. Uh and then he’s on base all the time. And it’s uh we’re not going to see anything like this again. It’s funny. I there was one day, I think it was during game or after game five when it looked to me like he was spent and I asked Dave Roberts, “How can he possibly keep doing this?” Because Babe Ruth didn’t even do it for two full years and he basically said, “I’m out. It’s too hard physically to do.” And and Dave Roberts said he can do this for as long as he wants. I thought he was going to say like another year or two, but he said he this is who he is. Show is defined by being a two-way player. So for the people who say, “Hey, if he just gives up pitching and be a great hitter or vice versa ain’t happening. This is who he wants to be the best player on the planet.” He is. I think he’s the best player who ever played the game. And I wants to I think he wants to keep doing this. Well, I know he wants to do it until he’s 40, 41. I don’t know if he can last that long, but that’s his intention and he’s one of those guys. Don’t doubt him. Do not doubt Show Otani. I can’t believe anybody’s still talking about like when is he giving this up? I mean, he has he’s about to win a a fourth unanimous MVP. Uh like what else would everybody like from the guy? I I Tom, uh two off seasons ago was the Otani uh uh free agency. Last was Juan Sodto. uh that that chase. What do you think defines this off seasonason? What’s Tom Verduchi keeping an eye on? I think it’s the number where Kyle Tucker goes. Um you know, I think it starts with a four. I think he’s a $40 billion year player and I think the total contract goes over 400. Uh he’s the best hitter on the market. I know he didn’t have a great year between the injury with the Cubs in the second half. Uh but the body of work is really good. Um you know, he’s a two-way player and it’s just hard to find people like that. I happen to think he’s a great fit for Dodgers. I mean, remember guys, in the seventh game of the World Series, the outfield the Dodgers ran out there was Kik Hernandez, Tommy Edmond, and Tayscar Hernandez. I mean, we’re talking about the greatest team, the ruining baseball, all this stuff. That’s not an all world outfield. I mean, they won the game, they won the World Series, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not like they can’t use Kyle Tucker. He’s exactly what they need. In fact, the Dodgers would tell me they have so much coming off the payroll, they can actually add them at 40 million a year and not be adding to the payroll. It’s amazing the way they just turned like this. Um, but I’m looking at that and on the trade market, I think it’s fascinating to think of how many top starting pitchers may be out there. And I say may because, you know, having names out there and having deals completed is entirely different. Starting with TKO, I think they have at least to explore the idea of trading him, see what they can get. I don’t think they have intentions of dealing him. Why would you, right? You might as well ride it out. You have a chance to to win a pennant in Detroit. Um, you know, I don’t think there’s a deal that can satisfy Detroit that can also keep them in uh contention for a pennant. So, you’ll hear a lot about that. I don’t think it’ll be traded, but whether it’s Alcantara, who a guy I thought the Mets should have traded for at the deadline, I I just thought he was just turning a corner and that would have been a great fit, not just for this year, but going forward. Um, now the Marlins look like they’re not that far away. So, I don’t know if he gets traded. Freddy Peralta in Milwaukee, uh, and Mackenzie Gore in Washington. Who knows where they’re going with their new leadership there. So, a lot of churn and talk, I think, about the starting pitching trade market. It’s almost even more interesting than the free agent market. You know, Tom, as just a way to wrap it up, uh, you know, the point you make about the Dodgers is fascinating one, which is, um, their their outfield was an area of like weakness. They were using starting pitchers to close and TKO’s out there. Do I think it will happen that I think they’re the one team that could actually trade for Scooble because they have so much starting pitching depth in the minor leagues. Plus, you could throw like Glasnow say into the trade now and say like like to Detroit, you got Glasnau and Sheen plus this other stuff. So, you got like two guys who go right into your rotation. I I’m with you. I wouldn’t trade Terk Scubble if I were Detroit. I’d just ride it out. But like the amazing thing about the Dodgers is they could do Tucker, they could do Diaz, they could trade for Scooble. I mean, what are we going to be talking about then if they they they do that because I do think with everything being said about all these other teams, they remain the team to watch in the off season because their ambitions are the largest. Yeah, it’s a great point. I mean, we got all kind of hot and bothered when they get people like Tanner Scott and Kirby Yates. You’re talking about Kyle Tucker and Derek Scooball, but I mean, hey, listen. You guys live through this where the Yankees were that team, right? Where you could not rule anything out. Mike Mucina’s on the market. They don’t need him. Oh, wait a second. The Yankees just signed Mike Mucina. Uh, trading for David Wells. I mean, Jose Contreres on and on and on. It was like, if there’s a big fish out there, the Yankees got their line in the water. And that’s who the Dodgers are right now. Doesn’t mean they’re going to get everybody, but uh, I’m with you. I I do not rule them out. They’re so smart. Um, and I I just think that there it’s a place people want to play and the Yankees had that going for them as well, right? If you wanted to win a ring back then, you know, you jumped on the train with the Yankees. Now it’s the Dodgers. Yep. Uh Tom, uh, we can’t thank you enough. It was a great World Series. We’re now entering an interesting off season. Uh, everyone should follow Tom at Sports Illustrated and MLB Network to continue to get his uh, insights this off seasonason. And everyone should root for the most deserving guy on the ballot for the lifetime achievement for the writers wing of the hall of fame. Tom, uh, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Hey, my pleasure, guys. Really enjoyed it. John and I, of course, thank Tom Verduchi uh for joining us on the show. John, hit or error? I’m going to give a hit. I hear a lot of criticism about the uh free agent starting pitching market which I think adds some depth. It’s not terrible, but I’m giving a head for a great trade market, particularly if Scooel is out there. I’ve heard of my the answers were ran the gamut from from all these different executives from he’s going to get traded to no chance he’s not going to get traded. Most of the people thought that uh or the rival GMs felt that uh they will put his name out there and gauge what the interest is and what they can get for him, but they probably won’t trade him. Uh but that’s the big number one guy that make creates interest for all of baseball is Terrick Scooel the best pitcher certainly at least in the American League probably in Major League Baseball who should get a Sai Young uh win another one today uh tonight. Um I think that’s great for baseball. I there’s a long list of guys who could be traded. Very good starting pitchers. Alcantara, Cabrera, Lopez, Ryan, Gore, Gray, Peralta. I’m not saying any of them is particularly likely. Some more likely than others, but you got seven or eight very good starters who could be out there on the market and that makes for an interesting off season. John, I’ll flow from you. I’ll give an error for last off season to David Sterns and the need for a hit this off season and it probably begins right there. He needs better starting pitching. Uh I know lots of things go into the formula that is run prevention. It begins with a guy having a baseball in his hand and throwing it well. And the Mets just didn’t have enough healthy, talented starting pitching last year. And so if that means internally reviving uh SA and Maniah to better forms of themselves uh that we’ve seen in the past, that’s got to be part of this since he did fire the pitching coach uh and he’s going a different way there. Just got to be much better out on the market. Uh so I’m not sure that it’s a hit or an error as much as he had one off seasonason that was a hit. One offseason so far is an error. And if the Mets are going to trend in the direction they want to, which is to be serial winners under this administration, which I think we thought they were headed towards 12 months ago with Con at the top, Sterns as the head of baseball operations, and Carlos Mendoza as the manager, then uh the the the Mets badly need um the David Sterns to be the MVP of this off season. Uh John, the MVP of our show is always uh Tommy Hogan. uh our great producer. You and I are far-flung these last few weeks, including right now in Vegas. And Tommy always jumps in at a moment’s notice to make everything possible. Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcast. Please rate and review us. Go to the YouTube the New York Post YouTube page to give us a view. Uh please subscribe to that. It always helps the show. If you like the show and uh obviously since we’re doing this from Vegas, the hot stove is off and going. Please stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.

On a new episode of “The Show,” Joel Sherman and Jon Heyman are joined by legendary MLB writer and reporter Tom Verducci. Tom discusses where this year’s World Series ranks all-time, the unique perspective he has taking in these games from the dugout & who is the player that will define this offseason.

Plus, Joel & Jon share what they’re hearing about the Mets and Yankees at the GM Meetings in Las Vegas.

0:00 AL MVP Debate
2:17 Intro
3:14 Is Carson Benge A Legit Option In CF For The Mets Next Season?
6:37 Are Mets Regressing?
10:20 Who’s The Bigger Priority For The Mets, Pete Alonso or Edwin Diaz?
12:35 Yankees Needs
21:38 Tom Verducci Joins The Show!
42:18 Hit or Error

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