THE CHICAGO BULLS EPISODE | Matas Buzelis, Josh Giddey, and Ayo Dosunmu

THE CHICAGO BULLS EPISODE | Matas Buzelis, Josh Giddey, and Ayo Dosunmu

I didn’t I never played like 35 minutes in a basketball game like that. So it was and playing hard like for me for me as the player I was at night and he don’t know about recovery. Well, how he go to the G- League at night and don’t know about recovery? You see what I’m saying? Come on, man. He always That’s what I’m telling. He always got to do that. That’s what I’m telling. Do I have to like introduce like we just going right to it? He does the finals game. This your first podcast though? No, my first rodeo. I got a question. When Josh got here, what was your guys first impression? It was he was here the same time I got here. We were here together. But when when he walks in the building, what’ you think? Um I ain’t going to lie. When I first seen Josh, um I was my first impression was you don’t you you don’t see like how um you know he he a big guard. Yeah. So like when you we I played against him before but it’s different seeing him up close like he legitimate 68 and a half 69 around that. So that was my first impression seeing him in the weight room like yeah his height for real. Yeah. I’m not going to lie. I did not know I did not know Josh was that tall when I first seen him. So but I don’t know he was hard worker his first day. Worked hard. um easy to talk to. You know, some guys it’s difficult to talk to, but Josh very outgoing. Um so yeah, but I I agree with them. He was tall. When did you grow? Probably when I was like 15, 16, 17. So I had a big growth. Probably went from 6 foot to 66 and like couple inches extra when I got to about 18. That was really it. And were you always playing when you were when you were shorter, were you always playing point or like like what was the Melbourne experience like? Yeah, I was always playing the point guard. Um, my dad coached the team, so he he naturally put the ball in my hands a little more than, you know, probably if if he wasn’t my coach. Um, so but I but I was average height. I was I wasn’t any taller than the normal, you know, 13 14y old and I was always a point guard. And then as I grew, I stayed playing that position and um yeah, I guess the the older I got, I kept playing it and then, you know, I never really as I got taller, I never moved to a different position. I always stayed at the point spot and handling the ball. So, as I grew, I um that that stuff always stayed with me from a young age. Did you feel like there was a point where you really got in terms of just like your physicality? Like, did something click for you where your game changed and you started to understand like I mean like I think you you compared him to Magic a couple weeks ago or something like that. And it’s like I mean you don’t just say that out of nowhere like that’s based off that’s based off of how you play. But even figuring out how to use your size to your advantage in that way. Yeah, it took me a little while and um when you come in as a as a rookie, you probably don’t you don’t want to be hit and and hit guys as hard, you know, because you’re not used to it. You know, I was only ever played against people my own age. So, I wasn’t really sure, you know, how to how to use my size and my body um early on, but as you get older, you start to mature more, you start to fill out, get stronger, and uh the more offseasons I have lifting weights and getting that getting those reps in in the summer, you come into a season, you start to figure out how to use your body and physicality. And took me a while to realize like the guys got me. So the same for a lot of us are going to be smaller than than us bigger gods. So figuring out how to take advantage of that um you know a lot of the time we’re going to be bigger and stronger than the people that are guarding us. So um using that to our advantage but you know have you had a similar experience because you’re you’re a matchup nightmare for everyone but it’s kind of like you also have to you’re you’re feeling that out on your own. Yeah. For for me my coach my coach like I’m always probably going to be like a skinnier frame. I can get stronger for sure, but my coach always told me, you can play strong, you don’t have to be like as strong. So, me playing lower at a lower level, uh, that helped me for sure. You know, I used to play like standing straight up. Josh still plays standing straight up, honestly, but he’s like, you know, bulkier than me. U, but I I have to get low. I’m usually faster than all the other guys I I play against, so I try to use that to my advantage. When did y’all first meet? Me and Madus. Yeah, that’s a good question. When do we I mean he he played for the fire and uh he was around a lot so I would probably say we formally met recently like when he got drafted here but we knew of each other and we probably like met passing by. But when he played for the Flyers I just had went to um Illinois so I wasn’t in Chicago as much the summer he was here when he was coming like what were you hearing about him? Oh, I mean I heard that his whole class, his team was good. Like they had a real good team on the fire. Um they had a couple other guys who was who was highly ranked on um ESPN um rankings for their age group, but like I said, I was I was in college, so I was, you know, doing my thing there. But my dad was still back and he he coached them and you know, Mike Irvvin, those guys I was still talking to. So I would always update and they tell me like, “Yeah, like we got some some young ones coming up.” Was was Illinois always the plan? No, it wasn’t always the plan. No. How did it come like how like also is there I mean it’s for people who are sort of watching or listening it’s what 3 hours champagne’s three hours from Chicago probably like 220. So it’s not like it’s like in the city. So it’s like you are getting a little bit of separation, but I feel like historically with like Duke, Kentucky, it’s like all like schools would just come to Chicago and just raid Chicago for the best players. And it was like Illinois would have good teams, but a lot of times they weren’t even necessarily guys from here. Yeah. So I feel like you going there was a thing for them, you know, it was like a coup for them. And so like how did that even come to be? Um I mean I just I went through my my my recruiting process. I would probably say after my sophomore year in high school, so going to my junior year that summer, I really took off. I started to get um scholarships. I pretty much had a offer from every division one. Only blue blood I had was Kansas, but they had a recruit go there in my position. Um North Carolina, Kobe, he committed there. Um Duke, they wasn’t really recruiting. And um Trey ended up going there. And then Kansas, like they had a recruit. So when it came down to it, um my final three I believe was Wake Forest, Illinois, USC, but um I just ultimately chose to to stay home. Is it for the legacy in like real time? Did you ever feel the like the stress of being at like being I mean obviously you guys are living this now on a even bigger scale, but it’s a little different with some age and experience I would say than when you’re you know a freshman in college or a sophomore in college. Did you feel that at all at school? No. Like I said, I mean, like you said, Illinois is far, so like you can’t just you not seeing family there unless they they supposed to see you. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? I would say probably um it’s harder being the pros being in Chicago than being in Champagne. Cuz I said at Champagne like I was out there, my family, they come to all the games. But on a normal like Tuesday, like nobody just getting up, driving 2 and 1/2 hours there, 2 and a half hours back. Um, so it was a it was enough space for me to for me to get away and focus and um the campus are great. The coaching staff was great. So I had a great time out there, but then also I was blessed when I did have two days off or a break I could, you know, take the trip home. Were you watching his games? Yeah, I was I always just been like a a figure in Chicago uh for basketball, especially for me. I used to watch all the ball is life stuff of, you know, IO Tailon going at it, Morgan Park, Simeon, all those guys. So, I uh big battles. Yeah, battles. You have a favorite one? Uh, no. I mean, I ain’t going to lie. Chicago battles was it was tough. It was it it was like playoffs playing game um the cup games like it had that atmosphere in them. I wouldn’t say I had a favorite one but just playing in that atmosphere it was crazy in in retrospect now with your journey and obviously it’s worked out. Is there any part of you that like reconsiders the not going to school thing? I tell him that all the time. I swear he always tells I be on him all the time about that. He was he was against that route. But I I always tell him like I I believe, you know, some players have, you know, different route. I think it’s a good, you know, choice for some guys. I wouldn’t, you know, recommend it for everyone, but, you know, I sometimes would want to play in front of that college atmosphere, but it’s just I don’t know. College just isn’t for me. I was just always focused on basketball, basketball, basketball. It’s funny with your I feel like with your like personality and like your kind of like flare for the dramatic I feel like it would have worked that would have worked at maybe not Illinois but it would have worked in college like people would have hated you. I think both of them I think both of them like they got that it factor like when a game get tough or when a crowd booing us they like make plays and they thrive off that. I think playing in college, like sold out arena, conference game on the road, like that atmosphere is crazy. Did you consider it at all? Yeah, I was going to go to uh Colorado. That was a school I would have gone to. Um, what happened? Well, like I was ready to commit. I took my visit. That was the only visit I took and um I went back home and then the next star program in the MBL back home. LaMelo B did it before me and I saw how well he did and you know he was the number three pick and at the time I was no I wasn’t even close to being a not let alone a top three pick a draft pick at all. I wasn’t on any mocks or anything and then they gave me that same opportunity to to come in and play in that league and um that’s when I took it. So similar to M. I thought for me the the the pro to it was playing against grown men at 17 years old was like going to boost my you know uh speed my process up of developing in terms of against playing against kids. So that’s the way I viewed it and weigh it up and that’s why I went the pro route early. That’s the same thing for me though. Like I saw Jaylen Green Kuminga all those guys go. So I’m like oh I could do it too you know. There’s obviously pros and cons with everything and there’s probably a level of like we’ve talked about this before, but there’s a level of professionalism that you learned early that made your like there’s a reason why you come into the NBA and are able to contribute right away, you know, versus like you go to college and you end up like you had an amazing college experience, but some people go to the wrong school and they end up like it turns into a mess and then they train like, you know, so it’s like it does like make sense on a practical level. I feel like for for why you did it, it just is it’s just funny with to your point with both of you where it’s like you could just totally see you guys being like in the Elite 8 having big moments having fans other teams hate you like you have the like the it factor this sort of [ __ ] to you that feels like would have worked in the collegiate level. I I knew what I was getting going to Ignite. Like I knew I was going to start. I was going to play. This is what’s going to happen. I don’t know. you know, college coaches, they might lie to you just to recruit you and get you to their school. So, I knew what I was getting walking into Ignite. With this team, you know, we’ll get to a lot of stuff with this current team in a minute, but like do you guys have like favorite vets on this team just in general? Mine was uh Derek Favors. He he was one of my vets in OKC, Mike Mscala. They were they were probably my two, but uh early on I loved and I think having vets is underappreciated. Like it’s really it’s really good for young guys coming in the league because you don’t know how to act. you don’t know what the schedule’s like and the vets that talk to you and and guide you through it. Um I think are very very valuable on any team whether you’re a winning team. When I was in OKC winning a lot of games, but having the vets around it shows you the right process to become a winning team and they that were huge for us. I had some pretty good vets. Um of course Demar Dear was a good vet. Lonzo was a good vet. Caruso, Zack, I had a pretty good a good group of vets. I asked a lot of questions too as a rookie. So, and I think they were all they were they all helped me a lot in different ways. Um, Demar, I would say I could relate to him more like I could talk to him off the court. Zack, he more he he’s more closer to my age. So, him and Lonzo, so I was able to relate to them a little bit more then. But I had a pretty a pretty good group coming in with Dear in particular with just his approach. like always talk about like his footwork, but there’s so many different things he’s done to basically like create the career that he’s had. Were there specific basketball things you learned from him? Yeah, for sure. Um, I learned a lot of stuff from Dear that he probably don’t know I learned from him just watching him. His routine um he had a great routine. Like I’m talking about like he he was he was in the gym the night before the games every night. He always play slow jam music and he always just work on his game. And like the thing about him people when he get in a game sometimes people say he moving slow and still efficient like that’s exactly what he works on in the gym. So you know I I’m seeing him like in a gym do the exact moves that he do in the game. Yeah. Um and the way his approach to the game um it was second to none. Did you guys feel it’s people say that people when you talk about sort of like the slow but getting what they want all the time they obviously say that about you know KD they said about Brandon Ingram they said about a bunch of different guys like when you were in college did you ever have that experience or was like it wasn’t until you got to the pros where you could see guys who were like in that complete control and now I mean it’s funny cuz you guys are doing it in your own way. It feels like it’s a differentiator a little bit with the NBA is the ability to just do that at your own pace all the time like that consistently. Yeah. Yeah, you seeing in college cuz you know in college you still got um you probably don’t have the same talented players like you do in the NBA but you still had a concept of like he’s the best player on the team so we’re going to play to his strengths and he’s going to showcase his abilities. Me personally, I would say I I I saw it a little bit in college because you had some guys that I could think of top my head. Um I know Michigan State, they had Cash Winston. Um he was a guard um who who played around my time. But I mean I just think that they’re not as talented they are in the NBA. I think in the NBA is much different. Like when you got guys now day in the NBA, if you got a guy who I don’t know if you watched the game last night, but like Donovan Mitchell was halftime, I don’t know, one for 10, one for 11, but when a game got hard and game got slowed down, it was time to make plays. It’s like he got to his immediate I’m talking about he’s making tough shots though. Yeah. And I think in NBA you see that a lot like No, you’re right. I think um like last night’s a good example because a guy like that and we kind of spoke about it at halftime that a guy like that is not going to just go out quiet. You know, he was 1 for 10 and came out and finished the game. He had you know almost 30 in the second half for 24. You know when u 24 when a guy like that gets going I think you know last night’s obviously example that happened 24 hours ago. But, you know, there’s players like that around the league that when they when it’s time to take over a game, they take over and um you know, it’s hard to shut that off when they get going. Especially like Philadelphia game like Maxis going crazy in the beginning. It’s it’s as soon as they get one easy bucket, it’s like you’re you’re throwing a rock into the ocean. Like it’s it’s it’s easy. when like when you first got into the league and this I mean I’m actually curious like we it’s become like a cliche but it is interesting the welcome to the NBA moment because I feel like everybody has a different everyone has a different version of it sometimes it’s teammates sometimes it’s opponents and I want to get all three of yours but I’m just curious like the first time even if it wasn’t to you where you saw somebody going crazy like that and you just are like [ __ ] like like what am I supposed to do about this like he’s just he’s just on one there there’s not really much I can do but like pray I’m not going to lie to To me, my welcome to the NBA moment was more like in the film room with the team. Tell them that story. So, we everything is like we do a lot with numbers and analytics. Yeah, analytics and stuff like that. So, one time I I remember driving baseline and I and I bumped like a Shay shoulder and then I separated and I was close to the rim. He’s like, he backed off cuz I hit him like pretty hard and I shot a mid-range. And the next day I was on the film and Billy was like modest. Take that [ __ ] and throw it out in the trash. I’m like, damn. Like that’s my shot, you know. Was it just Was it just you guys or was everybody? No, everyone’s in there. Everyone’s in there. And you know, you get your heart like drops. It’s like, oh dang, I’m not going to shoot that again. But that’s the thing about Billy. like he’s he’s going to be straight up with you. That’s what you have to respect. You have to respect that. How early How early in the season was it? I don’t remember. Early. No, it was it was regular. It was early. Yeah, it was early. It was It was probably like So, did you have like a Did you go home that night and were you shook or were you kind of like you got it in real time? For me, it’s like, okay, like I’m not I’m not doing that again. Yeah. It kind of shook me as soon as he said that. But, you know, with me, I’m just gonna keep moving forward. But I’m not really, you know, bothered by anything like that. And then we like a tight, we like a tight knit also. So like we all joke around like, you know, you ever had siblings and like you get in trouble and like we all joke around. So he he probably didn’t after he said it like it was over with because we laughing about it like, “All right, cool. It’s it’s it’s on to the next.” Did you have one? Did you have a moment like that? Um I mean in a film of course you know in the growing up on the court. I don’t know if I say in the corner court. I would say the playoffs against Milwaukee because my rookie year to start the season off couple DMPS playing here and there. Unfortunately, we you know we were hit with some injuries. Lonzo ended up getting hurt. He missed some time. Caruso was in at the lineup. I think Zach was dealing with a knee and um I was forced to play and I was playing. I played well. I had a a good start probably like good, you know, 20 25 games. Then of course you hit that rookie wall towards the end of the season. But to sum it up, we end up going against Giannis and them in the playoffs. And just from being in college for three years and then playing um the whole NBA season, it was nothing that I think I ever went up against in terms of that playoff atmosphere. I’m saying each and every play like it felt like you had to work for each and every basket. And growing up, you know, you play big games, but it was never nothing of that magnitude. And I think playing the playoffs and just seeing how each and every basket, how hard it is to get it, how detailed the scouting report is, how detailed the other team is on your tendencies. I think that was my welcome with all that and then Giannis in particular. Exactly. Was there what what about that just with how phys how physical he is, how gifted he is in terms of knowing you have all these different things. Plus you’re dealing with him as an individual. Yeah, I mean he was a tough cover. He is a tough cover, you know, if not one of the toughest covers in the NBA because um of course he was a champ I think they just won a championship that year so they was going for a backto back and he was just dominant. I mean, like seeing him just attack the rim, dunk, rebound, dunk, block shots, contest shots, alter shots. Um, it was crazy. You know, me being a rookie and and me just being in that, it was like, wow, okay, this this is what this is like. Yeah. Do you have one? Yeah, I think well, Giannis was actually we played him out my first ever preseason game. We played the Bucks and, you know, he he he played the first half because, you know, preseason he did whatever he wanted. I mean, he he had 30 at halftime and you know, I think that season we we were probably the worst record in the league. We we lost to Memphis by like a record-breaking we lost by 70 some points in Memphis one night and that that was probably one of my welcome I know that was I didn’t play in that game. We had a lot of guys out but uh that was one of the my welcome to the MM was losing that game and um yeah I mean there was a lot that that year especially like towards the end of the year we were playing with six or seven guys and those guys I’d never heard of before that were starting playing 40 minutes a night like it got to that point in the season where none of our main 11 12 guys are playing and we’re all these nude guys on 10 days are coming in we’re traveling with dudes I’ve never met before and yeah the season that first season was a big like wow welcome welcome to the NBA kind of thing. Thanks to DraftKings for sponsoring the show. Your favorite NBA superstars are lighting up courts across the country. Catch all the action with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, the place to bet on NBA stars this season. New customers, bet just five bucks and get three months of NBA League Pass. Plus, score $300 if your bet wins paid in bonus bets. As always, we talk a lot about the uh the team futures um in these segments. Uh, I was looking earlier today. We’re taping this Wednesday. Obviously subject to change. The San Antonio Spurs currently are plus 3500. Um, just for context, the 76ers are plus 2500. Uh, the Timberwolves are plus 1500. The Lakers are plus 1,600. I think the Spurs currently fifth best net rating in the league. Um, you know, arguably have the individual player with the highest upside of anybody in the league. Dylan Harper just got hurt. uh he’ll be out for few weeks to a month, but they got Darren Fox back. I just want to watch that over the next couple months because I think this team is a little ahead of schedule ceiling wise and I feel like that is a that is an interesting value to look at um in November and see where we are in January. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code young man. That’s code y o u n g m- an bet five bucks and get three months of League Pass plus get $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. I wanted to get into sort of the some of the the OKC stuff because I know a lot of those guys. We know we’ve done a bunch of episodes everything like this and it’s funny where they are now, you know, and where they’re going to sort of continue to be versus what you saw at the beginning. At what point did you start to like understand kind of what was happening just like in real time? I think after that first year, the start of the second year when we came back for training camp, um I I knew that the guys we we could be we could be a good team and um that second year we we went from the worst record in the league to the playing game to the number one seed in the West. So we we evolve very quickly and usually a rebuild it doesn’t happen that that quickly and you know it’s it’s rare for a team to go from where we did to where we did in in such a short span of time. But I mean Sam Prey was probably the catalyst behind the whole thing. He every preseason he’d come in talk to the team about, you know, how and and there’s no you can’t skip steps to to to get better as a group and and credit to to him and Mark Dor and the guys like we we always approached practices the right way. The coaches were on us. No one took shortcuts. we all bought into the same, you know, principle of winning was the number one priority. And I think, you know, obviously getting better individually helps, but as a collective, when you buy into when everyone’s buying into the same thing, you know, you as a team, you have no ceiling on it. And, you know, I thought after our first season, my first season at least, we we could be a really good team. And it happened quickly and, you know, it we we got there and they obviously won a championship last year. So, it shows how quickly they evolved. But, you know, they were um it’s a phenomenal program and and the way it’s run is is, you know, world class. Did you take lessons and it I mean it seems like you guys are building a similar thing here from a basketball standpoint but also from a chemistry standpoint in terms of even what we’re talking about everybody getting along and just kind of but in terms of the the the culture they started to build there where like I’ve said like I spent a decent amount of time with those guys and I’m like they’re together all it’s like that reminds me of a college team like everyone has their contracts they have their own you know there’s there’s life you know people have families people are getting older but at the same point like there is a real camaraderie with that group where it does feel like it’s, you know, not everyone is watching the box score, not everyone is watching their own stats. It’s really about kind of the collective group and I and I’m kind of curious like the lessons you learned from that that you can kind of bring to this team now, you know, knowing that it is another young team and it’s a team that is kind of growing in real time. Yeah, I I agree. I think that’s one of the massive things about why they’re so good is because of how close they are off to court. And I think one of the blessings is there’s nothing to do in Oklahoma. So the guys like we have to we had to hang out with each other and that’s what we did a lot. Um, you know, I think obviously they’re close and you know, we spend a lot of time together whether it was locker room or planes or hotels, whatever it is. But I think and even here we’re start I’m starting to see it now more so than than ever. You know, we do we do dinners all the time, we hang out together, we you know, we do things on the plane, hotel, wherever we are on the road, like guys actually enjoy each other’s company. I think when you love the people you get to go to work with every day, that that makes a massive difference in how you play on the court. So, uh, we all enjoy each other’s success. you know, when when guys are going off, like everyone’s off the bench clapping. That stuff is is so contagious. And I started seeing that early on in Oklahoma. And I think now, especially with the group we have, we’re starting to see it a lot more like um it can be anyone’s night, but everyone is so happy for everybody, which is uh which is a huge thing to to having success as a team. With Shay and and Dub in particular, just the peaks I feel like that they’ve now reached you from when you, you know, first started playing with them. What do you think it is about those guys? is I mean the the whole group has had had an really impressive, you know, sort of trajectory, but with those two in particular that’s kind of allowed them to reach that point. Well, I think Shay Shay’s probably he’s he’s more a quiet superstar. You know, he he don’t say a lot, but he’s a very very And every time I went back to the gym, he he was always in there. He he works harder than a lot of guys I know in the league. And for somebody to be at his level to continue to do what he does, it it kind of shows you that it doesn’t happen by accident, you know, it doesn’t happen by just rocking up to games and and and trying to play well there. there’s a lot of things that go behind the scenes and Dub’s the same thing. Um, both of them extremely hard workers. Um, and you know, a lot of it’s, you know, they’re both obviously very very naturally talented. They’re both in positions to be very successful with the team that they’re in. But, you know, I think the the work is always undefeated and it always comes to light at the end of the day. And, um, you know, I think Dub especially, he started off slow, come off the bench, he’s rookie year, and he he evolved very very quickly. So, you know, I’m curious, you guys are you’re very different players, but I’ve talked with Dub about this a bunch. I mean, one of his superpowers, I feel like, is his ability. Like, last year, he was playing center for the first two months of the year, and he basically has to do everything because he was undersized. He was undersized and he grew, but he sort of had to learn how to do everything. And so I think when you’re looking at like if you’re building your own if you guys are building your own roster now, is there some sort of thought process of like you almost it’s not that you don’t want, you know, the greatest shooter in the world or you don’t want the greatest big in the world, but you want the like jack of all trades because you can basically throw them in as like a Swiss Army knife no matter what the situation is. Yeah, I think so. I think having somebody that you can slot in anywhere and they don’t disrupt the flow of a team either side of the ball is such a you know unique thing to have in Dub and being able to guard obviously one through five is very very rare and not a lot of guys can do it the way he can but um offensively as well having a kind of a a second option that that he is to Shay that doesn’t disrupt what they do offensively is um is such a blessing for that team but I mean having having versatility on any team and I think we’ve got it with Aggra we’ve got like lineups where we can throw out so many different you know different types of lineups that um is such a good thing you know when If we want to play fast, we go small. If we want to play big, we’ve got that option. So, we’ve got so many different things we can do and um it’s a very very good luxury to have. What do you think about the culture stuff? I mean, being here, like you can’t really excuse my language, [ __ ] Like, you’re playing for the Chicago Bulls. So, you every time you walk in, you see Jordan’s jersey hanging up on the on the Raptor. So, like you have to you have to come in every night prepared. All of our guys are very unselfish. like they know where we’re going to be. Josh knows where I’m going to be on the court. Io knows. I know where he’s going to be at. Like we just we just all gel really well together and and yeah, and we’re all like we’re all hungry. We all want to win. Has it gotten any less weird that you guys are like not just playing for the Bulls, but like major contributors for the Bulls when you think about just, you know, where you come from? I want to say weird. Um I would say it’s a blessing. Um definitely I would say it’s a blessing because growing up, you know, that’s everyone’s ch that’s everyone’s dream is to play from play for their home city or their home state. Like that’s just a a dream you have when when when you was given a basketball. And I would say it happened fast. Um like it it wasn’t nothing that I was able to really prepare for. Like it was like, you know, I’m I was in Miami training all summer getting ready for the draft. um getting ready for the draft. Getting ready for the draft and then um came home. The draft happens and then you know my agent called me. Yeah, the Bulls going to select you. Like I met with the Bulls um in the draft process, but they didn’t have a first round um draft pick. So they weren’t like on in on in my mind. But as you think about it, um, of course, like now going to year five and going through the different phases, um, of the team, I would say that it’s a blessing just to be able to go out there and, you know, play for the Bulls. For me, funny story, like my when I when I was in the draft process, my agent said I have zero chance to go to the Bulls. Like there was no chance I was going to the Bulls. I was speaking to everyone. There’s, you know, the way I live my life is like everything is written already. Like it God hasn’t God has a plan for me to be in Chicago. You know, every day I thank I thank God for my opportunity to play basketball. But I I just think everything’s written like it’s destined for me to be here. And you know, that’s how I live my life. But I’m not really surprised. I at first I was surprised, but you know, now it’s like I’m here. I have to be in the moment, be excited, and uh, you know, endure everything with this with this current group. I mean, really the last two years, I feel like like Beth and I were talking about this before you guys got here. I feel like your rep with other teams for better, for worse, for better for you guys is basically like you you guys are going to run people into the ground. So like if you’re not ready for that, it’s going to be a rough night. Was that a thing that you felt like was a strategic shift last year or do you feel like that just that just happened as you started to understand? I mean, Billy’s talked about like, you know, we want to have nine or 10 really good players that play. And so, is that a thing that you feel like kind of happened organically or was like last year we’re like, no, we’re just this is this is what we’re going to do? I I think it was obviously a change in personnel like when you have a team I wasn’t here for this but with Dear and Zack and those guys are more ISS iso and you kind of slow the game down a little bit but now you know when those guys left the the personnel of the team changes and we turn to a more fastpaced get up and down the floor kind of group and you look at the way we’ve played and I think last year were the we were e the highest paced team or second highest paced team and we’re tough to play against. I think teams come in kind of dreading playing against us because of how much we get up and down and it’s tiring to guard. You see teams in the third, fourth quarters with their hands on the knees, they’re they’re gassed and um you know, part of our strength as a group is is how deep we can go into our bench. And when our first unit comes out, our second unit comes on, the pace doesn’t drop at all. It’s the same thing. And and when we maintain that for 48 minutes, it’s it’s very very tough to play against. So, you know, I think um a lot of that was personnel based, but we we made a clear emphasis of it in the especially in the summer, we play pickup games with 14second shot clocks, which is a massive point of emphasis to get up and down the floor both both offensively and defensively. So, you know, when you really hit it in the summer and and you and you prepare for and you practice for it, when you get to the season, it’s for us it’s, you know, we’re used to it and other teams are not used to doing it that way. So, when we play older teams, you know, we play, I don’t know, the Knicks who are not really, they’re not an older team, but they’re not a fast-paced team. It’s that it’s like they caught off guard by it because, you know, teams don’t want to, especially Superstars MA, they don’t want to have to play offense for 24 seconds and then sprint back on defense and stop a transition fast break. So, you know, personnel base has a lot to do with it, but the way we want to play and it’s fun. So, I’m selfish. When we kick the bowl ahead, guys are dunking in transition. You know, guys enjoy it. There was a couple times last year where I was talking to people on different teams who were about to come here. Usually, it was like in the winter, so it was like January, February, and everybody was like, “Fuck, I got to like I got to go to 6° Chicago.” Usually, like they’re coming from like Indie, it’s after like a back toback. And they just know like like, “Oh, I got to go to sleep at 11 o’clock tonight.” Like I can’t be I can’t because I’m just like I know what they’re like I don’t know how they’re going to shoot. I don’t know how anything else is going to go down but like I know what they’re going to do. And I feel like you establishing that rep that fast is a personnel thing but it is also like everybody buying in. Definitely. Definitely. I think establishing that that last year going through that um I think that was the hardest part but now coming to the off season um all the guys knew what what was at stake and we knew how we wanted to play. Like Joshua said, we playing with 14 second shot clock all summer and it’s fun. You know, when you get in the game, it’s fun knowing that’s our identity because we all bought in. And I think the next step for us, which makes it even more fun, is understanding that all right, we play fast, we play hard. Now each and every game, it just comes down to execution. And execution, that’s something that can always be taught. you could watch film and that um maybe we could have kicked it here in the corner or we could have rotated boxed out here. And I think that that’s how to be consistent that’s my biggest thing for us as a team I always tell the guys is we have to be consistent and the more we can be consistent on our trademarks like what we doing then the sky’s is the limit for us. this the second unit which you run has been great all year. In terms of like if you’re talking to you know guys who are who are going to be entering into that with you in terms of your sort of like how they fit into what you’ve already built, do you have like specific things about just like do this, do this that you feel like you like to pass on to them to kind of fit in in that second unit? Like guys on the team? Yeah. Um, I just say just watch the game and just see what does the game need. You know, each night is something different. Um, you know, some nights the the starters, they they could be up 20 to nine. All right, now cool. So now when the second group come in, what’s most likely going to happen? They’re going to be trying to play harder to come back. Or some nights the starters could be down 209. All right, cool. Now we need to bump the energy. So it all depends on what the game needs. But I think the main thing for me is just understanding um that whenever I’m out there just playing free and playing hard. I think that’s the that’s the main thing. Like I said, we a tight-knit group and when we be in practice, we be battling against each other. The scrimmages be be close and uh we always fighting against each other. So like when we get in the game, I just look at as like extended starters. Yeah, I mean I agree. I think to to his point, I think, you know, there’s been times this year where the starting group hasn’t got off to good starts in that second unit and as I said earlier, our depth is is a big luxury of ours where that unit comes in and and makes such a big impact for us. And obviously Dose leads that group and I think the pace has a lot to do with it. You know, when we get out the net quick and we get up the floor, as I said, I mean, if if I was the other team coming in having to play against us, I would hate it because like, you know, especially starters that play the first 10 11 minutes of the game, you’ve got the first unit that’s running you to the ground, then the second unit comes in, there’s no drop off kind of thing. So for us, um, you know, we we typically go 10 11 deep every night and, um, you know, having the luxury of of two really solid units is a is a is a massive thing in today’s NBA. I was going to ask your perspective. I thought it was super interesting the way you described about like taking the game like playing the game for what it needs rather than just how you, you know, may have thought it was going to go walking into it. You’re the only one of, you know, the four of us who’s played on multiple teams. Um, and so your perspective about just like the traits, and we talked about a little bit this already with the OKC stuff, but the traits that all winning teams have, if there’s like consistent team traits that basically you feel like every team, no matter the circumstances, have. And I I feel like unselfishness has to be at the top of the list, but I feel like if there’s other ones that you kind of think of, I feel like buying is the is the biggest. You know, if you have 14 guys all on the same page, winning is no more priority, but you’ve got you’ve got one guy that’s not, it’s it’s hard to to make a winning team. And I think both teams I’ve been a part of OKC, we were all bought in here. We’re all bought into the same thing. And I think when you see teammates genuinely enjoy and it can be, you know, like a star player can can have an off night and his teammates um one of his other teammates is going off and he’s kind of sitting on the bench ping. That that can kind of be contagious. But, you know, here it’s like if someone’s having an off night and the rest of the guys going off like everyone’s off the bench like clapping, cheering and that that is such a contagious and infectious um thing for a team to have and and we’re very fortunate we’ve got that. you know, when you got 15 guys buying into winning and winning is a top priority and um nothing else comes before that, it it it makes for a really fun environment to be a part of. So, you know, I think the buying is is definitely big the big one and getting that from the whole group is so important and and we definitely have that. You guys have a funniest teammate? Javon Carter. Sorry, JC. Everyone agrees. Yeah. What What about him? Just funny. You got to be around him. Just naturally funny. Some guys don’t try to be funny. funniest and the way he talks and he he’s just naturally funny. So, who’s your like outside I mean you can’t talk about the three of you cuz you’re here like who are the other glue guys like who are the people who are who are the locker room guys that you look at if you’re like this is what’s holding the whole thing together of course. Yeah. Um Trey Trey does a good job. I mean I think we got a lot of guys like I said I would I wouldn’t lie to you. I think our team is legitimate. Like we got a lot of guys like we we re we very very close in terms of like when it’s time for business like of course like like Josh said you know everybody got their own family everybody spend time alone etc etc but whenever it’s it’s a work environment or anything that has to do work environment we close so we can always hold each other accountable you know what I’m saying like I remember one game um at home game I don’t remember what game it was but Modest thought I I thought I was cool, but Mis thought I didn’t have enough energy, whatever. So, he came to the bench yelling at me saying such and such, you got to have some energy. Come on, say something. You not talking. That’s that’s cool. I shook his hand. I said, “You’re right. I got to be better.” And then last night, same thing down the stretch like I told Mis like, you know, wake up and he shook my hand, moved on from it. So, I think having that relationships to, like you said, to be able to hold things on in the locker room, it comes from being able to have those tough conversations. And I think we can have those tough conversations. Yeah. Io IO is one of those guys that Javon is even one of those guys that is just going to be real with you. Like, it it doesn’t matter what situation you’re in, he’s going to tell you the truth. That’s why also Billy is he’s he’s a realist. He’s going to he’s going to tell you what you need, what we need here, what we need here. Like it’s truly a blessing to have that like in the locker room cuz you know you might say, “Oh, you you good. You know, you’re doing a good job.” Like, but you really not. And you got to actually hear it. It’s different when when you hear it from somebody. Do you have a thing now? Um, you know, looking back at draft night, do you have a thing that you know now that you wish you knew then? Just about the league, not even about the team, but like the league overall? For me, it’s it’s the the recovery standpoint. Like I didn’t I never played like 35 minutes in a basketball game like that. So it was and playing hard like for me for me as the player I was league night and he don’t know about recovery. Well how he go to the G- League at night and don’t know about recovery. You see what I’m saying? Come on man. He always That’s what I’m telling. He always got to do that. That’s what I’m telling him. No, but the the player I was at Ignite is is way different than I am now. Like At Ignite, I was more like trying to finesse and I wasn’t playing hard. And when Billy sat me down last year and said, “You’re not playing hard.” I’m like, “What do you mean?” And he kind of explained to me and broke it down in different ways of how I can impact winning, not just score the ball. There’s so many things, you know, that you can do on the basketball court without shooting the basketball. So, that was that was a that was a big thing for me. And as I said, the recovery was it was difficult for me. I know he wants to make fun of me, but it was it was hard. Like I had to I have to stay early. Like the my thing is now is early extra early extra. So I show up early and then I do my extra work after. So that’s that’s the thing I learned, but I wish I knew that a little earlier. Do you guys have anything? I think um for me like when I first came to league, I think staying motivated for 82 games is not easy. like the middle of the year when you get to like January, you playing in Memphis on a Wednesday night. Like it’s it’s it is hard to get motivated for a game like that. But you have to find ways because those are the days you win them days, they go a long way in the season. Like start of the season, everyone’s excited. You know, first first 10 games, end of the season, we’re trying to make the playoffs or playing whatever it is. Middle of the year is tough. Like it’s it’s tough to get motivated and you got to find ways to to get yourself up for it, get other guys up for it. Like you you got to want to win those games and days. But I found that I struggle with that early. Now I’m finding this it’s easy to get through but early days especially as a rookie because you come into the 82 game season you haven’t played anything close to 82 games before you played 30 game 40 game maybe a 40 game season before but yeah the middle of the year I think is the toughest part for everybody but you know you can win them middle days January February December whatever it goes a long way when you get to the end of the year. Do you feel like to to his point about just doing all these other all these other things that impact winning besides just scoring? Obviously that this is what your game is, you know, it’s like you can score with the best of them, but it’s you’re doing it all. And so if you’re looking at like a perfect night for you in terms of your own obviously there’s a win there. Take the win out of it. Your own personal performance. Are you like I would actually rather get like I’d rather have you know eight teammates set up in the first 15 minutes before I take a shot or does it sort of depend on the circumstance? I think it depends like kind of what he said earlier like the the game calls for something different every night and you go in predetermining what you want to do it’s it’s it’s a tough it can be a tough night like if you go in saying all right I’m going to score on this possession I’m going to score here I’m going to pass here like each possession calls something different and there’s times where I need to get off the ball and let someone else create. There’s times where I come off a pick a roll and maybe it’s the hockey assist, you know, it’s not the direct assist, whatever it is. And each night it calls for something different. So, I never go into a game thinking, all right, this is what I’m going to do. Like, you know, it maybe it’s a game where I don’t need to do as much. Maybe it’s a game where, you know, Mus or Pat or Co, whoever has it going. So, you read the game, you get a feel for it, but there is times where, okay, it’s time to make a play, it’s time to get aggressive, it’s time to do this. So, um, yeah, as I said, I don’t go into any game or possession predetermined what I’m going to do. I kind of read it, read the defense, read how. And as a point guard, you know, I I get more satisfaction out of seeing team putting teammates in position to be successful than than myself, you know, hitting a shot or making a lay, whatever it is. Um, seeing other guys get going, that that gets me excited, you know, when when I can get other guys going, that that’s what I enjoy doing. I’m not comparing you guys directly. Obviously, you’ve you’ve fully different games, but I feel like uh you know, we’ve done a bunch of stuff with the some of the Nuggets guys recently, and it’s a thing with with Joker as well in terms of like when you’re as gifted at getting people the ball in the right spot as you guys are. Like, you can almost pass too well, you know what I mean? Like, it takes a time where they have to sort of get used to. And so I feel like one of the things this year that’s kind of happened is like with reps and with chemistry and with time it’s like everybody else is sort of catching up to your ability to kind of like serve the ball in that way. Do you feel that at all? Do you feel like it’s a thing where like you basically need your you need the rest of the like not obviously you need the rest of the group to be on the same page as you but you want to make sure that you are like setting everybody up in sort of a position to succeed and you see the court so well that there that there may be a time where you just it takes reps to kind of get to that point. It does. Um, and I think chemistry and the more we play together, the more I play with these guys, like the easier and second nature it becomes, like you don’t have to think about it. And and sometimes it’s not about making the the the big play, like it can be as simple as kicking the ball ahead. And these guys one dribble, they’re on the rim. So it doesn’t have to be the the home run play over time. And that’s probably something I got to get better at like taking care of the ball. I’m, you know, probably top five in the league in turnovers right now. So I got to clean that up. But, you know, there’s definitely times where the simple play is the is the best play and it doesn’t have to be the home run pass every time. So, I’ve figured that out as I’ve as I’ve got longer into the NBA. But, you know, if I see these guys in transition ahead of me, like I’m throwing it up and letting them go make a play. So, it’s not as doesn’t have to be I’m pounding the ball and and I have to wait for the home run play. Like, if I see these guys ahead of me, like I’m throwing it to them every time. Yeah. He one underrated thing about him, he balances everything really well. Like he might score, the next possession he’s kicking the ball up. Like I have to be aware and I’m running every time. Like my first three steps I’m running every time. I know he’s going to grab the rebound. That’s when I run like and I know he’s going to kick the ball up. But he he balances everything really well like the assists, the the pass, the scoring, everything. Rebounding. He’s really underrated rebounding. So, do you think you could teach toughness or coach toughness? Teach toughness? Yeah. Choice. Yeah, I think that’s a choice. I don’t know if you could teach that. Can you teach somebody to be tough? Different different types of toughness. Like you can be the big strong like Steven Adams type of guy or you can be a small guy like Trey that fights the post or there’s different types of toughness I think you know whether you want to be a tough guy like fighting wise or you want to be a tough guy like chasing through screens contesting shots blocking out like different levels of toughness so it depends how you look at I think my so the the toughness I guess I would use would be what you were saying before about the people who make every play that needs to be made no matter no matter what it is diving on the floor you know teach to win that that comes from we growing up though you can’t wait till you you can’t wait till you 22 23 in the NBA to make them decisions I think that like them players like people don’t understand like anytime you got like a a army swift knife or you got a a guy like for example like Trey Like Trey, he’s he’s I’m using for example, he’s tough. He’s an undersized guard for NBA nowadays cuz like you got guys like 68, you know what I’m saying? Luca 69, so um 68, whatever. Trey, he’s about 6’2, right? He had to make the tough play defensively to impact. That’s why he was like top 10 NBA and steel so far. But people don’t understand that Trey was the number one point guard in our class coming up. So it’s not like this was something. Yeah. This is something that he he was always tough and then when he got to the NBA he just relied on that neck. I don’t think you can like come into the NBA with the wrong mindset. That’s why unfortunately you see a lot of guys where they get to the NBA and reality comes in. We don’t shoot a lot of isolation step backs. So if you isolation player coming in you averaging 20 25. Now you come to training camp and coach telling you go run to a blur to a roll or put you in a dunker spot. Are you tough enough to be able to adapt to be on a roster or some guys they say you know my spots are my spots like I’m not changing how I look and then unfortunately they end up playing in a GLeague or they not getting the minutes they want or they out of the league. So I think that toughness it comes from like a foundation growing up. I think a big part of that is like everybody before they get to the NBA is the man like on their team their high school like they average they can average 30 35 in college high whatever it is. When you get to the NBA there is two or three guys that are doing that. You know there’s a good there’s probably a 90% chance you’re not going to be the same guy in high school that you are in the NBA. So it’s about finding a role and the guys that find their role and excel at that they’re the guys that have long careers. And um I mean as I said there’s there’s two or three guys a team that are have that green light to shoot step back threes and shoot isolation buckets and um you know you might be that guy in high school college but if you come to the NBA and you come to a team like I don’t know say you go to the the Clippers whatever you got James Harden and Kawi and you come in as a rookie start shooting step back threes you will not be playing you got to find a role and find what what the what the coach needs what that team needs and excel at it and that’s how you’re going to play as a young guy coming into the league I think coming in trying to be the same player you are. And maybe there’s situations where you do do that, you know, women is is probably a unique example or someone like that, you know, but but 95% of the time you’re coming in, you got to find a role and you’re not going to be the same player that you were in high school coming in shooting whatever you want because there are vets and there’s all stars on your team already that they will do that for you. It is funny. It’s like to your point, it’s like it’s there’s can you teach shots? It’s also can you teach self-awareness? Can you teach the ability to and I’m actually I’m really curious your perspective on this. take like take yourself personally out of it because like you are as long as I’ve known you which has been you know since before you even got to Ignite you’ve been a very self-aware kind of like in introspective person but do you feel like and this isn’t like any of your teammates or anything like that there but like do you feel like it’s gotten harder to have that because of the like everyone you’re you know 16 years old and you’re getting gassed up in NIL and you’re getting this and you’re getting this and then all of a sudden it’s like you’re driving a you know Maserati before you and then you get to the NBA and then you’re like you’re in your film room and it’s like you’re not taking that shot anymore and you got to be able to deal with that. I think it comes with the circle you have around you. Like my mom my mom was not playing around like when I was younger. So she she saw like the deals that that the colleges were offering. Like if anything like for me I I picked a different route. It wasn’t even because of the money. Like I probably would have got more money going to college. My mom always was very aware of what was happening around me and she wouldn’t let anybody, you know, try to take advantage of me. She would I would never skip practices ever. She would drive me everywhere. She quit her job to to drive me to practice. She she would she would kept the the circle really tight. I think it’s a twofold. I think it comes down to understanding that um you have to be able to adjust. You have to be able to adapt. I think um all of us you know did that coming into our respective teams as a as a rookie coming into the the NBA and also I think it comes down to having still having believed in yourself. I think that’s very important because some organizations I won’t say some organizations I would say the NBA as a whole you know they can I’m a basketball soant so like I I I watch YouTube I watch stories I talk to other NBA guys and I think it’s safe to say that some organizations can put some players in a box and I wouldn’t necess for example you could you could be drafted um by the Morgan Park Mustangs and you know you can shoot. We know you can shoot. But say your your first year you didn’t shoot it as well and you get to the you get to the Morgan Park Mustangs and we tell you, hey, we don’t want you shooting. Like if you don’t have confidence and belief and belief in yourself that you know you can shoot that you have to put in like M said you have to get there early and leave late then that can mess up your mind and you can go from being a a 35% shooter in college to now you afraid to shoot in the NBA. So I think it comes down to understanding that you have to adapt. That’s the the you have to adapt coming into the NBA. but then also knowing who are you like who are you as a player because you know yourself the most. So how can you adapt while still having 100% belief in yourself? I got something to say on that. So for for me like when I wasn’t playing in the beginning it was it was really tough like for me like getting in the game I was like okay what do I do? And I played like four minutes, five minutes, six minutes. And I would and I was talking to Zach one day. I’m like, Zack, like I know I could do all these things out there like, but I can’t show it. He’s like, do everything you can to impact the winning. Like Billy loves that. And then you could still show show what you can do. Like you’re going to come out anyway out of the game. So show what you can do. You know, prove to the coaching staff you can do it, but also impact winning at the same time. That’s what I wanted to say to chime in off what he said though. I think like to your point in America especially like I didn’t have this when I was growing up like the mixtapes and you got cameras at all these AU games and you know the these guys are all on highlight reels and things like that and it’s like that this is early this is young like kids at 15 16 getting put on ballers life and and overtime and all these things and um they they can pump you up and you you could think you a lot better than you are and then when you start playing against real competition reality will set in for you and then when you get to the pros like it’s not the same as when you were a kid like there’s guys that are in the league that are established that are going to the Hall of Fame that are allstar superstars like and then it gets to as we spoke about before finding your role and um yeah there’s there’s a very very good chance that you’re not going to be the same guy that you were on your AU team and you were shooting whatever shots you wanted the coach would never tell you nothing your teammates would never tell you nothing like it doesn’t work like that in the NBA so you know to to both their points like it’s about finding a role and early days I think impact winning like that that’s that’s the best piece of advice I’d give to a to a rookie coming in like find ways to to really impact winning and that doesn’t have that doesn’t mean I think a lot of Kids get mixed up with they think they have to score. They think they have That’s not what you’re going to do as a rookie unless I mean there’s probably three or four kids that will come in to a team that’s not winning. They’ll get handed you not winning. Yeah, they’re not winning. That’s a team that’s not winning. So that’s why the team’s at the top of the lottery. They kind of hand these kids the the keys to the car and let them do what they want. And you know, it can be in in certain instances it can be good because the kid gets to learn, he gets to play a lot. But there’s other assists where you put a kid on a on a championship contending team and they might play 5 10 minutes a game, but they have valuable impactful minutes where they’re not out they might shoot the ball one time, they might touch the ball for 10 seconds total, but they’re rebounding, they’re screening, they’re defending, they’re doing other things that and they learn how to win games. So I think that’s the most impactful thing. Exactly. And and the longer you get into your career, you figure out ways to impact winning. That’s how you have a long career without needing to score the ball, you know, 20 20 times a night. You don’t want to build bad habits. And you know that’s the worst thing. Um you know you get drafted to a lottery team and say you don’t have good vets cuz some may have good vets but if you don’t have good vets and you playing bad basketball you know the next year the same team is in lottery and they drafting the next kid and the next kid. So I think the main thing is one of the main thing is being mentally tough. like you have to be mentally tough coming into the NBA and even still you know us being in the league each and every week is a new challenge like it’s all pres it’s a new challenge that presents itself and you have to be mentally tough you have to be able to take take on coaching you might you might not play how many minutes you want to play you might not make as many shots you want to make but you got to understand that no matter what another game coming up another game coming up and another thing NBA I always tell my what what NBA is it what’s Yeah. Yeah. What is it? What have you done for me lately? What have you done for me lately? Nobody cares about the first game of the season, how we started. No one cares about that. You know, we started off 5-0. We just lost two in a row. No one cares that we was 5-0. It’s all about what have you done for me lately. We got San Antonio tomorrow. That’s what’s next on the on the slate. We after we play them, that’s going to be over with. We go on to Detroit. Yep. So, I think that’s something that really would be good for the rookies to Are there are there take your take your teammates out of it? Are there guys and I’m guessing these are not going to necessarily like it’s obvious to say the superstars and the allstars like that. Do you have guys around the league or you look like they impact winning? You were to name like three or four of them that you’re just like when I team he loves winning players. So, let him talk about it. Big winning guy. How does Caruso big he’s a he’s a winning player and don’t and a lot of stuff like Caruso do you don’t see it on the stat sheet you you check his box score and he don’t stuff the stat sheet but you watch the game like if you know basketball and you watch a game like you’ll see how impactful a guy like that is 7 p.m. war. Who’s there? Is there anyone else that stands out? Aaron Gordon. Yep. Um I say say Draymond. Of course. Draymond. I would say Male Bridges when he played for Tibs. You know, he was playing 40 45 minutes a game. You know, Brunson pounded the ball the whole game and he’s still playing. And he don’t miss no games. Man, if you’re not missing a game and you guarding the best players, he was making plays down the stretch. He blocked um Jaylen Brown. Like I think that’s a he was really playing 45 minutes. He would come out of the game for one minute and going right back in not missing no games. That’s not winning players like that’s when I watch basketball. I love watching guys. Can you tell like with like like you guys are I mean there’s a guy I really like on San Antonio. Carter Bryant was he’s not even playing that much yet, but he will. And I’m like, when you guys play them tomorrow, and I don’t even know how much he’ll play, but like can you tell when you face like a young kid right away if they have it, even if you don’t necessarily know with the skill? 100%. And and him specifically, I remember watching him in summer league and defensively he was picking up Coopa flag full court, you know, and everyone’s everyone’s there to see flag and everyone leaves being like, damn, this kid can really play and he impacts winning. So, um, and and that’s kind of to my point before, like some kids, a lot of kids seem they have to come in, the only way they can impact is scoring the ball. But you see a guy like that come in, he defends, he rebounds, he plays hard. Like that is what winning basketball is about. I think for a rookie, he um, you know, he he might play 10 minutes, he might not play at all tomorrow night, but when his number is called, like you can count on and you can know that guy’s reliable and he’s going to get the job that the coach and the team needs him to do, he’s going to get that done. Lonzo winning player. Yeah, look at his stats last night. I think he probably made maybe one shot, but whenever somebody open, he throwing with the ball. If you you need a flesh screen, he set a flesh screen. Like Jones, winning player. Definition of winning player. Like, and when you when the best thing is when you play with winning players, like I play with Caruso, I play with um Lonzo. So like when you out there on the court with them, like they do so much stuff that you wouldn’t be able to see on film. Like you could get beat, Josh get beat and he could know that. Boom. Trey go be low. He go be low his low man. Or Mis missed a box out on Giannis and I come down and I crack down Yiannis. Like them the best plays to me because I always look at like in the game when it’s a rebound, one shot go up, I’m looking for my man because I know next day I don’t want to be on film. So if anytime I can’t get to him and I’m panicking and I look and I see Josh rotate or I look and see Mis rotate for me, I’m like, “Thank you.” Like that’s And you do it over and over again. and then you like, “Oh, yeah, that’s when play.” I’m curious. I feel like you you probably the only person on this on in this room who have this perspective on this. If you’re if you’re a GM and you’re judging someone in the draft and you look at their college performance and they have every sort of metric, they have every piece of talent, they have every everything, but they don’t win in college at all and they’re like, and they’re healthy, you know what I mean? It’s not like they got hurt. They don’t win in college at all. Is that a thing where you would like not to be like, “Oh, I’m not going to draft this person at all.” Would you clock that or are you sometimes just like it’s a team sport, you know, it’s not tennis? This is a perfect question for him, bro. Is it a power five school? Yeah. So, it’s a power five school and they got all the stats, but they not winning. It’s a power five school. It’s a it’s it is somebody who has all the talent in the world. Okay. They have um there’s no like, you know, red flags. There’s no like there’s like there’s no anything where you’re like okay this is like some off the court thing it’s a real issue. It’s more just like for whatever reason and honestly like I feel like in this hypothetical you got to give them you got to give them probably two years because if you do it off one year it’s like you know you can get upset like things can happen you never but like is there is there a world where you’re just like if you’re not able to win in college it means that mean this is coming from someone who’s won basically everywhere that he’s been that means something to answer your question I’ll try to answer the best way I can answer is I would say so winning in college is two different things. Like if they make a tournament and you know they make it to the round of 32 or sweet 16, even the first round they lose, then I’m not going to knock them for because at the end of the day, college is one game elimination. You you show up on Saturday, you not your best game, we all know you get upset. But it’s a difference if they’re a power five school. They’re at the bottom of the conference. They don’t qualify for the tournament. They don’t win no game in the conference tournament. Now, that’s a red flags alarming because now, okay, you have the skill, you have the talent, but you’re not showcasing any of that to your university. So, now, why do I expect you, if you’re elite player, you’re going to be drafted the top of the draft boards, why do I expect you to come in and lead grown men? Yep. if you didn’t showcase any of that leadership against your own peers. That’s a perfect point. And I think um I think I can’t I don’t I didn’t watch college a lot growing up or anything like that, but I think it’s different like you know in terms of system and things like that like whether you put all the blame on or not the blame but the the the the pressure on one guy to lead the team and you can kind of get a sense like Cooper Flag for example he took his team a long way but he had good players around him you know he had a good team around him so that that you can argue is winning habits but like if you put him on a team that’s not as good as Duke does he go that far like he he very well might but it’s like you judge it the grain of soul in my opinion because you base on personnel around the guy and you can also like if GMs are scouts that they’re they’re good at their job so they can identify a player that has winning talents and he can have a bad game but can he still impact winning? Can he he missing shots but can he still impact winning? Is the team still winning if he’s not playing well? Like you can look at it multiple different ways and I think um similar to the NBA like I think the best players are the superstars that they they can’t buy a bucket that night but their team is still winning like they’re still impacting the game in other ways. So, you know, I think college kids especially, like that’s because they’re trying to impress scouts to to go to the NBA and when their shots not falling or things aren’t going well for them, it they can get in their head and they can stop pouting and things like that. But if they’re doing other things to impact winning, I think that goes a long way and and people will see that and pick up on it. I got another winning Derek White winning player. Yeah, that’s another one. They put him on Team USA just for that. True holiday winning player. literally just like we need someone who’s going to be here and and it does like no matter what we need to do, he’s probably not going to play that much. No matter what we need to do, he’s going to do it. And Drew Holiday, he’s winning. And look at him in in New Orleans. Like he was a bucket. Yeah. Like he really was like he’s really a bucket, but he he got to a point in his career like in Milwaukee playing with Giannis. Okay, cool. Um if I’m not scoring like what else can I do to impact the game? Okay, let me get a steal. It’s funny. Have you watched You guys haven’t played Portland yet, right? No. So Drew’s been balling. He’s been playing great there. And it is like it’s like night and day from when he was in Boston because he just said do something different. Yeah. Different role. So he’s just a different role. So he’s just like I I have to you need me to facilitate now. So like I’m good. I’m back to facilitate. But that kind of speaks to how much of a winning player is. He’s willing to take a back. They want a championship with him doing that. He’s willing to take a backseat. Let Tatum Brown be the guys. He sits in the dunker. Dunker, you know, he was in a dunker the whole season. teams cross matching with they’re putting their four men on poring putting their fives on Drew. He’s working the dunk like that’s a allar that’s a that’s a guy that’s that that there could easily be a number one two option like and he he take a back seat and he wins a championship doing it. Now he’s important. You seeing how how effective and efficient he can be as a number one guy, number two guy there. So you know that that to me is the ultimate winning player that can be the one option, the five option and play his role to perfection, win a championship. Obviously this is you know we’re going to check back in later in the year as you guys keep winning. If there’s one particular thing you’re looking forward to over the next couple months basketball-wise you want to just keep going. Do you have something that you that stands out? No, I just want to make the playoffs. I just want to make the playoffs with the guys and just I want to embrace I want to embrace the process. So I always say that, you know, the playoffs, that’s the end goal. But I don’t want to miss the now worrying about the end goal. I want to embrace each and every day, the wins, the losses, the heartbreaking defeats, the historical comebacks. I want to embrace all of that. So then when it get to the playoffs, it’s going to be like, “All right, we didn’t went through all of this. Now it’s time.” Yeah, same with me. Playoffs for sure. Um I want to see the atmosphere. But yeah, I just I stay in the present time. I focus on what I have right now. Not really trying to think ahead in the future. I just I thank God that I’m playing in the NBA. and uh I get to share the court with amazing players. Yeah, I just I’m excited for the future, but I’m in the present. Same thing. I think, you know, especially the next couple weeks, like we start on fire, the whole NBA world’s talking about us. It’s like, all right, now we’ve lost three out of our last four. How do we respond as a group? So, that’s what I’m excited to see. And, you know, as Dell said, we all want to be playoff teams. We all want to win championships. But, you can’t skip steps. You can’t look too far ahead because that’s when you start to run into problems. So, we got a tough schedule coming up. Um, it’s going to be a good opportunity to see how we respond. Another tough test tomorrow. I don’t know when this podcast comes out, but in the next two weeks, we got some very, very tough games and tough road trips coming up, so it’ll be a good test for us. Thanks to DraftKings for sponsoring the show. All your favorite NBA stars are putting on a show this season. Steph’s been hitting those threes. Donovan Mitchell’s got those explosive takeover games, and Kate Cunningham’s showing us what the next generation is all about. Here’s where DraftKing Sports Book comes in clutch is the official NBA betting partner. They keep the action going when other books call it quits. Bet quarters, player props, scoring runs, and more, all while the action unfolds. New customers bet just five bucks and get three months of NBA League Pass. Plus, score $300 if your bet wins paid in bonus bets. This was a Bulls themed episode. Uh, really fun team, great start. Three of the sort of most promising young players in the league on the show today. I was looking at DraftKings, obviously subject to change, but we’re taping this uh Wednesday morning. I was looking at the futures for the central division and right now it’s the Cavs – 300, Pistons plus 450, Bucks plus 750, and the Bulls plus 4,000. The Pistons are interesting there as well considering um there’s an argument that’s the most well-rounded team in the East, but the Bulls at plus 4,000 uh also feels like very good value for this particular division as the division feels like it’s wide open. All four of these teams probably have a good argument to make that they do something better than the rest. The Bulls, as we get into in the episode, obviously have the best and fastest pace of of the four. And you know, with this young group, their upside feels a little untapped. So, I feel like that was an interesting number looking at the DraftKings team futures. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code young man. That’s code y o n g m an. Bet five bucks and get three months of League Pass, plus get $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours. Thanks, guys. I appreciate you. Love

It’s an early-season Chicago Bulls episode featuring a few staples of their young core: Ayo Dosunmu, Matas Buzelis, and Josh Giddey. The trio dives into so much, giving a true inside look into the start of their season, including their hot start, why they love the chemistry in their locker room, and their goals for the season.

They also get into some of their basketball origins and careers, including what it means for Ayo and Matas to be from the Chicago area playing and for the Bulls, Ayo’s career at Illinois and Matas’ at G-League Ignite, and what Josh takes with him from the beginning of his career on the Oklahoma City Thunder.

They also have high-level basketball conversations about teaching vs. inheriting toughness, adapting to your role in the NBA, what it takes to be a winning player, and much more. Let’s go!

00:00 Intro
0:25 First impressions of Josh in Chicago
1:38 Josh and Matas using their size
4:05 When did Ayo and Matas meet?
5:10 Ayo going to Illinois
8:20 What if Matas and Josh played in college
11:20 Favorite vets
12:44 Ayo learning from Demar Derozan
16:00 Matas’ film room story
18:00 Ayo’s first playoffs vs. the Bucks
22:26 Josh’s Thunder years and thoughts on their culture
27:50 Matas on the Bulls culture
28:24 Matas and Ayo being from Chicago and playing for the Bulls
30:30 The Bulls pace
37:35 The Bulls locks room
39:54 Adjustments to the NBA
42:15 Josh’s approach as a point guard
45:45 Toughness in the NBA
49:30 How to make it in the NBA and impact winning
56:33 Winning players around the league
59:59 Analyzing players in college
1:04:57 Goals for this season

Download the DraftKings Sports book app and use code YOUNGMAN. That’s code YOUNGMAN, bet five bucks and get 3 months of League Pass plus get $300 inbonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with Draft Kings—The Crown Is Yours. Gambling problem? Callone eight hundred Gambler. In New York, call eight seven seven eight HOPENY or text HOPENY (four six seven three six nine). In Connecticut, Help is available for problem gambling. Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven sevenseven or visit ccpg dot org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (Kansas). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in Illinois. Twenty-one plus age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void inOntario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receiveBonus Bets which expire in 7 days. Minimum oddsrequired. NBA League Pass auto-renews until cancelled. Additional terms at D K N G dot co slash audio.Limited time offer.

Subscribe to The Young Man and The Three podcast aka YM3 YouTube channel today for more NBA analysis, player interviews and highlights.

Previously The Old Man and the Three w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter