Maple Leafs’ Tailspin Continues | Real Kyper & Bourne

Maple Leafs’ Tailspin Continues | Real Kyper & Bourne

Time to go off the rails here on the rail Kipper and Bourne show. It’s Friday. It is the Leaf Hour edition. We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, The Fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet. Catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube at your convenience. Nick Ciprios, Justin Moore, Sammy McKe, Derek Brando, and David Sis Boom. Sis Boomba got the drop. Is this the debut of the season? Well, it’s season five. Yeah, I think he’s today and on Monday. So, welcome aboard there, David Sisbooma. And the only reason I knew that is because he told me like a hundred times because I think he wanted to make sure that his name gets on air. We got it. Beautiful. We got it. He’s in. Beautiful. The If you want something to be done, you just have to ask me a 100 times and I’ll do it. 100’s the math. Yeah. Tons to get into today on this off the rails Friday. Hey, in about half an hour, we’re going to catch up to our good buddy Darren Pang, analyst for CHSN Chicago. Also TNT nationally, help us tee up on the weekend. The Toronto Maple Leafs in Chicago. And then Doug Mlan at the top of the hour, former NHL president, head coach, back for his regularly scheduled Friday. plenty to get into, including a daily faceoff report that has people nervous about the Olympics. I’m people in that sense. Yeah, you are. And Sammy as well. And are the Olympics in jeopardy? Whoa. What are you talking about? Hockey Olympics. You got to have somewhere to play them, right? I mean, there’s rink issues right now. Gary Bman’s describing it as something that may come down to the wire, but this is the leaf hour edition, Sammy. So, we’ll we’ll wait. We’ll wait on it in the national hour. We’ll get into it with Doug Mlan. Okay. All right. Why? So, Leafs. Oh, actually, let’s just talk about the Olympics. No. Okay. No, no, no. More pressing. You told me this is national news. Don’t waste it on leaf talk because people are frothing them out. That according to our Sammy Leaf Hour edition, people want answers. I want answers. And I told Sammy, “Have them change the channel cuz they ain’t getting any from us.” I got questions. I got piles and piles of questions. Biffield scores in overtime to lift the Kings last night in a game that we did. And obviously in our pregame, we talked about some things that we wanted to see, including a a a good start, better start, better start. It actually was way better. Everything that we talked about in the first 20 minutes, Kings didn’t have a sniff. So, what happened? I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. Honestly, it it looked so good. I you know, like the Kings outshot them in the first by a little bit, but there wasn’t a ton of great A’s. Uh Leafs took advantage of their opportunities. They were above the puck, responsible. We did whole packages on defense to offense in the first period. And look, if you’re in the right spots on D, it leads to action the other way. And then they came out for the second period like which they are have totally different team all season long filled in second period filled. They cannot they cannot stay in games in the second period. My thought today was just like okay everyone’s talking about coaching. That is the first time in the game where you can make tangible adjustments. Right? First intermission you come in and say here’s what the other team’s doing. Here’s what we’re doing. Here’s what we’re going to change. Did the Kings make some adjustment and the the Leafs didn’t or is it just pure the the Leafs stopped playing the way that they wanted to play? Was it that was it a coaching thing or a player thing? Sammy, you want to comment before we go questions? Craig Buby, it’s hard to watch, boys. It’s hard to watch. It’s It’s every night they’re just no good. Like, I mean, it’s 15 shots. 15 shots. And if it’s not like it’s it’s the shot attempts, too, which totally tells you everything you need to know about who had the puck in whose end the most. And you’d think like, you know, you got your third string goalie in there. And I guess they have a good start to the game, but the second and third, it’s just great a opportunities. It’s like you don’t have protect him a little bit. They just if it’s not for him, they lose. They don’t get a point last night. And Hildabby, I mean, I wouldn’t say he was great, but like he made some big saves. thought he was as good as you could ask. You’re leaning on your third string goalender to carry you through games to get a point. I think Hildy’s 0 and four and hasn’t played bad yet. Trying to think of the games he’s played. Even if he gives up one didn’t love the Carolina game. Carolina game was a shootout. Yeah, they were the only team on the ice. I remember the I remember Fogle’s goal that you would have liked them to catch a puck. Yeah, but other than that, u did you guys you catch Drew Dowy’s comments after the game? Yeah, I did. He dominated. It went in overtime, but we dominated. And you know what? That guy wants that guy would just if he could redo his career, he would have killed to be a leaf. That guy loves He loves twisting the knife. He loves to talk. When he gets here, he’s like, “Finally, I got an audience. It’s talking time.” and he just guys should have a podcast. Oh, yeah. Top of the list. Yeah. He just loves it. Um but I will say that’s not the the only guy who’s left Toronto and said we uh we pumped him. Yeah. I feel like every post game all year we’ve heard the other team go oh we only got a point or yeah we won or yeah they won. But it always ends in but we were clearly the better team. All right let’s go to Craig Buby on his overview of the game and then we’ll follow up with ours. Yeah, I liked our first period. I thought we did some real good things. Defended well, you know, really our sticks were good. You know, we did a lot of good things. And I thought they three/ quarter ice us in the second. The reason that is because, you know, when you get pucks back in our own zone, we got to get out of it. We got to make a play to advance it up the ice. We didn’t do a good job of it. And then, you know, we got the lead in the third. And I thought we sat back a little too much. Um, you know, again, just advancing that puck up the ice with speed, jumping, getting the holes. It’s confidence for me a little bit. Um, and puck play. Like, you know, the plays are there. We’re just we’re not we’re not making them and just not seeing it well enough right now. But it’s we’re just we got to pick up our pace. You know, we got to be more confident in that in those plays. To me, that’s a difference in the game. The only chance that they have to pick up the pace is if they can get to pucks first and they’re not and therefore he’s got no chance to play quick because they don’t have the puck and they’re not quick. They’re not Give me a fast guy right now on that blue line. Give me a guy that with above speed. Yeah. Like Morgan gets around, right? He’s he’s above average. He’s not fast, right? Doesn’t doesn’t move fast. I’m sorry. But, you know, to me what I hear and and I agree with you, but I I also hear conflicting messages from him where he says, “We need to make plays up the ice together. We need to, you know, the whole thing’s been don’t make plays. It’s been go north, keep it simple, straight lines, you know, direct, if you will.” Yeah. Direct. So, are we going direct or are we making plays? Like, totally. Don’t be too fancy. I agree. Watching last night, like they’re not breaking the puck out and making little plays and all that. They’re just They’re just slow. They’re just slow at everything they do. Yeah. I I don’t know how like just play faster, be faster, something, but like you got no chance to be quicker if you don’t have the puck in your own zone. But the scariest part about that is they win 70% of the draws last night. Yeah, 72%. So you’re winning every draw, but you can’t get the puck out of your own zone. What’s that mean? Yeah, I don’t know. That don’t make no sense. I tweeted something sarcastic today where I said Tanv’s a shutdown D. Mabe’s a shutdown D. Carlo’s a shutdown D. Benois a shutdown D. And all it’s done is shut down their ability to break the puck out. Like none of these guys have done, you know, they’re supposed to be defensive specialists, but because of that, you have a bunch of guy guys whose job is, hey, just stop the guys coming this way and don’t be too fancy going that way. I don’t know. You need some plays. Guys got to make plays. You need some plays. There has to be some there has to be some sort of connection or chemistry between the D and the forwards. You’ve been on this all year long and it’s for years actually. I don’t know. I think it was Tavaris last night in his post game mentioned like the gaps. Yeah, he did mention that. I saw that. And I’m like, boys, this has been going on for a long time. Yeah. And it’s not getting corrected. So, I do think that Breub is taking the most heat. That’s natural. It’s the coach. But like I think Bourney that you’ve been saying that there’s a lot of talent here, there’s a lot of talent here. Like I I I’m starting to think it’s more personnel than it is coaching in terms of or or there’s not a I’m sorry Justin, but there’s not as much talent as you think there is right now. That’s kind of what the direction I not to gang up here, but that’s kind of the direction. And I disagree with you both. And that’s fine. I can Where is the talent now that you can still say it’ll come or I believe it’ll come? Where is the talent coming from? Because it’s not they they don’t have game breakers anymore. Then if they do, it’s Tavvaris and and I mean they’re they’re just down Mitch Martner who I know is a significant piece. Yeah. But you know they still have everyone else who’s supposed to be able to do this. And who is supposed to be able to do this? Well, obviously Willie Tavvarz N. If you go McMahon’s a 20 goal scorer like you can go through the lineup. I I’m not worried about the goals and I I don’t think you guys are either at this point. I’m worried about the talent to create energy and momentum. I’m not even worried about the goals. I’m worried about them being number one. I don’t see I don’t see enough talent to hold on to pucks and cycle and and be threats. I don’t I see one and done. If you look at the third and fourth line of even the good teams, guys like Nick Wah and Dakota Joshua who also, you know, can put the puck in the pit net, make plays, you got Machelli I’m starting down there. I’m starting to believe those guys are a fourth line. That’s fine. And the Leafs don’t have a fourth line right now. Did you see their fourth line last night? Yeah, I saw the numbers. One shot attempt for uh uh Lawrence Blair had none. He played four. He played 419 last night. He had he had no no shot attempts and Yon Croak had no shot attempts. like one one for the fourth line. One shot attempt and on for 13 against you know how hard that is on any given game for a fourth line not to even have an attempt. Yeah. It’s almost impossible. I know. But listen, I I don’t think if you look at if you plug some of those guys out, all right, you put whoever it is you you’re frustrated with, pick one. Okay, Steve Lawrence is not a fourthline centerman. Okay. So, if you put Lorent on Colorado’s fourth line or on whoever’s fourth line on on a on a on a winger as a winger, like this guy is not you don’t look at him and go, he’s not talented enough to do that. He’s not talented enough to make plays. He’s a talented hockey player. He’s not at center ice. I can tell you that. Okay, it’s fine if he’s not a centerman. That’s I would agree that he’s probably not fit for that. So, so why are you putting together that fourth line? I mean, listen, I’m not. However, why would they? I guess options at this point you’re down two guys, right? So you chose not to get bring back camp and you know if you want to go back deeper into the off season like pontis homeberg you think they could have used pontis homeberg in the top six. No kidding. The bottom six bottom six like but that says a lot about where they’re at. Give me pontis homeberg right now over over Joshua. Did you I didn’t mind him last night. I thought he was okay last night. it. I I just see a lot of wheels spinning. Yeah. I mean, it’s just not enough. It’s just not. But I think we’re like too granular granular right now. I think it’s like there is enough guys here that you’re not a team who should have what is it? Five regulation wins in 18 games. Six regulation wins. I don’t know exactly what the number is. It’s not many. I think it’s six. Like this team is not a trash roster. A great example is Sammy. you tweeted their roster today, their lineup with the one that finished. And it’s like that to you should have been like, “Oh, okay. They’re not that.” Like that the difference in those rosters is night and day. You have legitimate NHL talents on one side and whatever. That was a team trying to lose then. They’re not that. They’re obviously not that. Yeah. This is a team I’m telling you is not going to finish in 30th place this year. So the question I would want them to finish in 30th because if they finish in 21st they give the pick to the Bruins. So this is the question and I think people out there know this. If they finish top five pick is protected. Anything else goes to the Bruins? Yes. For next year 6 7 8 9 10th. So that’s you can’t finish with those picks. Are they good enough though? And I’m making a case that they still have some talent. Are they good enough to even justify trying to get better, firing the coach, trading for players? Does that even make sense? So, how many games are we in now? 16. No, 18. 18. And we said 20. Yeah. I I’ve seen enough to say to say they’re not good enough. They’re not good enough. Um, so McKe, you had uh tweeted us something yesterday as well because I got home disillusioned, disheartened with the Leafs last night and I I text Sam just said, “Who have they even beat?” It’s actually in our group chat. Who have they even beat? Like how I can’t even believe they have eight wins when I when I look at the way it’s going and he ran through it. Yeah. Gosh, it’s a dog’s breakfast. It’s the It’s all the numbers. It’s You want me to go through it? Yeah. It’s Habs first game of the season. Predators Rangers in OT. Overtime. Sabres in OT. Near dead last. Flames 4-3. Literal dead last. Flyers 5-2. Nonplayoff team. Empty netters. Pens. Good. That was a good comeback. And Mammoth was a they were a good team at the time. So that Pens game they played 20. The last game they won was their best game of the year and they’ve lost four since then. It’s it’s not whether or not you can get a point in overtime. It’s not whether they were a goal away from tying a It’s just what you can watch for full 60 minutes and the ice is just constantly tilted, not in their favor. So tell me what can change? A hot goalie, a hot power play? No, they need the pot. Willie Willie getting hotter. Tavvarus getting hotter. That’s the scary part is you just nailed it. Like their guys are lighting it up. Like they’re all they’re getting their points. They’re doing what they’re supposed to do and that’s produce. And it’s not not even close to good enough. It’s not making a dent. It’s not just not close enough. It’s not making a dent. Well, I don’t know who made the boat analogy yesterday, but they’re pouring water out of the boat while things are flying in. I guess so the Utah game when they had won three in a row there was Tanvan at that point. No, Tan got Tanv got hurt against Philly on the Saturday night. It’s going to be a while boys. He’s not coming to rescue this Christmas anytime soon. I I I don’t want to put a a time frame. I’m I’m just speaking this weekend, next week. That’s not I don’t think happening. Yeah. After that, you hope he’s progressing and he’s I hope it’s a lot sooner than Christmas, but they’re being very careful with this guy. Good. Here’s the scary part, as I have been critical of them here today, but I’ve also said a lot about the talent they have and and all that. I think they have talent to be better than they are. And if they play up to that talent, that means they’re what, 16th? I don’t know. Because right now, they’re 28th in just about every stat I can find. So, If they do play better, what what does that get you? So, I understand what you’re saying where it’s like, boy, we are at a real crossroads of what direction are you going? You’ve had plenty of time to play the chemistry card, the systems card, the I don’t know what’s left. What cards left? Get us on the road so we can bond card. Yeah. Is that left? Oh, yeah. That’s very left. Dad’s trip. I don’t know. They’ve played 13 at home and 15 away or sorry and five away. 13 at home, five away and just a few playoff teams so far. So So that trip coming up. So they they go to Chicago for Saturday night against the Blackhawks. Get some deep dish in. Yeah. And I mean they’re playing well. We’re going to talk to Tanger about it, but they’re not it’s not like cupcake on the schedule anymore. Your team’s bad when you go, “Oh, Chicago good. Oh, the Blues might get LA.” Well, no. just saying like their schedule for the next three is pretty like where you would hope to accumulate some points with at Blackhawks, Blues at home, Blue Jackets at home and then you go on the road for like you know at Habs at Jackets where the Leafs always lose Caps Penguins Panthers Hurricanes soft that’s a soft No it’s not what are you talking about even the road games you just mentioned or give me the road games again it’s at Habs at Habs okay always greasy on a Saturday night. Yeah, they lost a couple in a row. They’re missing some guys to injury. Blue Jackets always lose that game. Nonplayoff team last year. That’s no different. They’re hardly a I mean, they’re good, but they’re not. Caps are struggling. They’re tough, though. Penguins, Panthers, Hurricane. Here’s the thing. The Leafs are the bad team. That’s what I’m saying. When you look at other teams, you go, you got to look out for the Penguins. I just I maybe not very good. Let’s go to Craig Ruby. You’ve heard from us. What does he need to do to fix this thing? Well, to me the most important thing is um the defensive play right now in our game. Um which we did a better job tonight, but you know that’s for me I thought that we were too loose uh you know lately and um that’s the one thing you got to tighten up. You know the other stuff and will take care of itself. But, you know, it’s about seeing the plays, making the plays, confident, advancing the puck up the ice, and and getting to the offensive zone more. We didn’t we weren’t there enough. And when we were there, it was too much in and out. There you go. All right. Well, all right. A big part of Yeah. It doesn’t change anything. Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah. A big part of last night’s storyline was Willie Knander and a minute and 33 uh shift. Yeah. That he had Yeah. That led to a interaction between his head coach and uh Do you want to know what he said about it? We have a clip. Uh love to hear what he said about it. I forget what number it is. It’s uh clip three. Derek, please. What was your message to Willie after their second goal? Well, I just I thought he was hurt for a minute. I didn’t know the way, you know, he whatever. It’s just I was just talking to him about that. I thought he was That’s actually the biggest dig I’ve ever heard. That’s what I mean. I thought he was hurt. I would think that many coaches would think a player is hurt when they’re standing completely still. Yeah, the visual is awful and OT awful. Got visuals. It’s funny, Willie. Last night was the first game in a long time where I feel like maybe some body language that he’s not real thrilled with the way things are going, right? Like wouldn’t look at Bubby when he’s getting balled out. End of the period, he’s sitting on the bench like, “Ah, I got to go into the dressing room.” Goes in and 5 seconds after the team or 10 seconds, whatever it was. We had a discussion uh in between periods as well. And listen, Willie came back and made a play and they’ve got they got a goal. Um, and I guess some vindication I guess a little bit for Willie on that. But is that what you want to do now? be in a position where at the end of the game you’re just exchanging chances and you hope that one more goes your way than than the other one or eventually you have to regardless of the offense you got to fix what’s going on in their own in your own zone. Yeah, I don’t think Willie thinks he did awesome there. Like you know it’s too long a shift. I I will come to Willy’s defense on one thing here that probably not. What’s that? I said probably not. You’re probably This is not going to be in Willy’s defense. Oh, no. This is in Willy’s defense. What? They stink and he’s always going to score. No. Is that the visuals that I get from my television most often than not is that the head coach has no problem laying into me. It seems to me that if if he has a true outburst on somebody, it’s at Willie. Yeah. guys hit. I have yet to I have yet to see him get in the face of Austin or Morgan or anyone else who’s coughed up a puck and then after the period’s over, we had a a shot of Willie sitting on the bench by himself. Is that the body language you speak of? Looking at looking at the iPad, right? Is that the one we’re talking? I don’t know if he’s looking at the iPad. I think he was looking at the iPad. If I’m Willie, I’m sitting there going, “I’ll take it, but I ain’t the only one here.” Okay, start yelling at other people, please. Yeah, I think you’re I honestly think it’s a great point. And for a guy that I mean, we all talk about his deficiencies, but he’s literally carrying the team offensively and they, you know, they’re lighting it up and I know you don’t like the other side of his game. It would be nice to see him chew out somebody else. somebody else. McMahon takes the oddlick. That’s about it. Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair. Just spread it out. Yeah. You know, so I think when when you have conversations with people about this team right now, a lot of it is, is there a way out? Are they good enough to like just play their way out of this or does something have to happen? Yeah. I don’t know. Well, like Matthews is on placed on IR retroactive to November 11th, which I believe it has to be 10 days. It’s uh it’s three he’s not eligible to play in their next two games, right? So that seven seven or 10 is Yeah. I’m not I think it’s seven full. Okay. Yeah. So that takes him Yeah. at least two more games without Austin Matthews, which obviously a big blow. Even though I have noted his deficiencies this year, he’s a 40 goal scorer like this this version of him. is always gonna attract a ton of attention. Yeah. And that helps everyone, right? And that helps everyone and and minutes. Coaches and players will show Austin whether Austin scored 10 goals in 10 games or zero and 10. They will they will treat him and cover him the same way. and you need him back to take a little bit of space away from from Willie and and John. Even though they’re continuing to to to provide the offense, it will slow down. It will catch up. They will they can’t they can’t go 60 games at this pace. So you you need 34 back because otherwise I’m sitting there going, if I’m the head coach, how do I have the puck more? How do you con how do you what do you change with this Maple Leafs team to have the puck more? Is it the lines like the you know they’re not working together or is it something structurally something philosophically that you’re telling them to do? You said get to pucks more, get to pucks faster. Yeah. or support each other better or enough with the gaps. That’s all. And in the first period, we we talked about McMahon. Okay, he he made a bad mistake. He turned to the middle of the ice and he got it got picked off by Kempy, but at least he was there to recover. And if you take a look, there’s probably like two or three other guys within six or eight feet of them still. Those guys are gone, though. You’re you covered in the intermission. You were so polite. You’re like, “Yeah, they’re not too far gone, but they’re gone.” I think it was uh McCabe that was at least there. So, their D were still there. Yeah, the D were still there and McMahon was still there and he didn’t quit on the play and he ended up turning it into a 80 foot breakaway. So, some decent signs, but like can we have that over a long stretch of the hockey game? I think yeah, fundamentally they’re going to have to play like a team that just really prioritizes defense and it’s boring and it looks like the first period looked everyone’s back above and reloading and they also had a two nothing lead. Well, that’s more fun. Like they had a two nothing lead in that period and played great and even I was like oh well see they always play better without Matthews in the lineup. Maybe they should like no they still suck. They still suck. Uh we talked a while ago forecasting Joseph Wall. We circled Chicago. We did. He will play. You think? Oh yeah. Listen to the coach. Do we not have Let’s listen to the coach and see if you be the judge. Clip six, please. On Joseph Wall. So uh Joseph just said he’s like good to go or whatever. Nicole’s number. You plan to get him right back tomorrow night? Yeah, I’m not sure yet, but thinking about it definitely. What have you seen from Joe as he gets closer to the beginning of the game out of Well, we haven’t seen him that much. I mean, he’s same old Joe to me in practice, like what I see. You know, he’s hard worker. Uh, he looks good in that. Um, you know, I he went down and played a couple games with the Marlies, which is good, I think, getting into game action, but he seems normal to me and ready to go. You normal to me and ready to go. You cannot not play him. Yeah. Oh, we have a clip from him. Want to hear what Joseph Wall said? Joseph Wallley. I play that Joseph Wall clip there. Uh yeah, I mean it’s been a bit of a weird start to the season. Um like we we’ve talked about before, but um yeah, I’m just really happy to to be here, be back. Um got to play, you know, game and a half there and um just pumped pumped to get going. Pumped to get going. Next man up. Joseph Wall’s gonna play hockey Saturday night. No pressure. Is there any part save the season, Jose? Is there any part of you that’s like, “All right, this is a very different shape of a season. Some adversity early. They could, you know, figure it out, gel together. This is a group that can still salvage this thing.” I did. That was my positive poly take on at least talk to their next regular season or good the playoffs. Maybe I like the two words probable but not impossible. Right. So, this is sport. Mhm. We’ve seen the Blues in last place in January win a Stanley Cup. The Leaf should hire Craig. I don’t anticipate a bolt of lightning striking another team, let alone the Toronto Maple Leafs like the St. Louis Blues in what 2019 19. That’s where we’re at with the lease. But this is sport. Anything can happen. That’s what we There’s my positive take. Sammy, here I get a Don’t ever Excuse me. It’s sport. I’m gonna tell you who I liked last night. That’s what we’re down to, Sammy. John Devarez. I like John Dvarz. I liked uh McMahon. I liked Joshua. And I liked Mermis. How about you? Uh St. John’s given everything he’s he has. I had a buddy write me today. He said, “That’s what watching an Islanders game was like 15 years ago. The team plays terrible. Tavvar works his bag off, scores a couple goals and you lose. Yeah. O. So, you know, you live long enough to become the early 200. This is also like the danger of signing John right to four years is that you’ll you’ll still consistently get the 60 or 80 points, but it doesn’t advance the program. It doesn’t get you closer. It doesn’t Yeah. Yeah. I agree. What is that? What do you mean? Well, you like you’re he’s doing great. He’s playing fantastic. Good thing they signed him. Good thing they signed him. God, they have no wins. I The team didn’t get better, guys, is my point. Even with bringing John back, even with him at his 80 points, the team didn’t get better over the summer. It’s not his fault. Whose fault is that? It’s not his fault. But are you reviewing his whole seven-year contract here? No, I’m not. I’m not. I’m just saying like it’s it’s great that John it’s to your point. It’s like if if a guy’s doing his job but it’s still not good enough. Should you have gone somewhere else? Should you have gotten younger? Should you have gotten a more a guy that is more physical up the middle of the like I’m just saying that it’s not John. John’s doing what he’s supposed to do and that’s produce points. But at the end of the day, it’s it’s it’s not good enough for anybody. Very consistently, your problem with John Dvarez is a management problem with team building. Thank you, John Devarez. No, John’s not the problem. No, John’s not the problem. The problem is is is the whole thing’s miscast. John was supposed to come in from Sorry. He’s worthy of praise for his play this season. He’s worked hard, produced, done one face off. Took half price on his It’s great for John. It sucks for the team. Okay. What do you mean it sucks for the team? What does that mean? The team’s not better. No, the team didn’t need to go back and double down on on John and and even a few other guys. 4.4 million. What were you going to get? That’s better than John. You’d be worse if you didn’t have them. They should have just stunk then. They should have not tried and trade away everybody. Which is a fine point if that’s the point someone’s making. Yes. Like if you’re just gonna go scorch, which I just think like right now it’s pretty clear that you try to bring the minus Mitch, you try to bring the the band back and it’s not working. Oh, it’s not working. Then you can quibble with how the Marner money has been spent. Yeah. You know, but I Yeah. Yeah. I don’t see any reason why. No, I’m not I’m not it’s it’s not John. It’s just John’s in the position now of being a number one centerman. That’s not a good thing for the Toronto Maple Leafs. So, I mean, but yeah, but it’s much like the Wall Stler thing where the It’s hard for me to get excited about how great of a season John’s having when the team looks the way they look. That’s all that’s my whole point. Okay, that’s good to All right. We got Darren Penny up when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Welcome back to the program. Nick Ciprios, Justin Bourne, and Sammy McKe. I told you we’d solved nothing. We solved less at break, too. Not a lot of easy answers here. No, there’s not. Sammy Blay playing four and a half minutes. Did he take a bad penalty or something? I vaguely recall him doing something. I don’t know. Puck. There’s definitely some punishment involved. He struggled the last few years to find any type of game like he had when he won the Stanley Cup with the Blues. You know, excuse my ignorance here, but like the role that Bubby wants him to play. Why doesn’t someone just go act like a fool out there and just like, I’m going to ignore the hockey puck and I’m going to run into everybody and I’m going to, you know, those days are over. But if someone did that, their coach would go, “Thank God.” And they would put them on the ice a lot more. But there’s a reason why he spent the whole year in the American Hockey League last year. You know that, right? I mean, yeah. It’s because maybe he’s not that guy or not really. You’re not that guy, pal. Like, how many times have the the Leafs or all these teams been like, “Okay, we’re dying for someone just to run into people. Go get big Lorent. Go get Joshua. Go get Wah. Go get big guy. Big guy. Big guy.” It’s like, but none of them are willing to do that, right? What you’re talking about. And like Kefir Sherwood body checked his way into a regular role and then started shooting at the net and people are like we got a player. It seems to me but he like leads the league. Like Matthew Olivier punched and body checked his way into a role and now he gets points. Like you earn a spot by doing things. They give you more opportunity when they trust that you’re doing things that help the team. Listen, we you’ve praised McMahon in the last few days. You, too, Sammy. He’s trying his best, but clearly it’s out of what he thinks he should be. It’s not who he is. It’s not who he is. And that’s probably consistent with five other guys. And that’s a problem. It’s a problem. Nothing comes It doesn’t come naturally to guys. Well, you know, I’ve be sore losers and and look like a sore loser. I’ve often used the expression that coaches would rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a pussycat. Yeah, that that old expression. It’s like I thought Pazetta was going to be that for them. Can you explain that you you sign this guy, you’re he’s in training camp and and then it’s like you take an eraser and then go put Sammy Blaze there. Like just explain that to me. You’re like, “That’s my job. I was going to be the body check guy and play in the fourth line and stuff. Don’t want to give him a chance first before you go get Sammy Blaze.” And the Marlies are a mess because they’ve got like nine vets or I don’t know what it is, seven, eight, nine vets. You can only dress, I think, at most six uh veterans for a game, something like that. So, they have to sit guys every other game like in a rotating healthy scratch thing. So you because they can’t put all the vets in. So Pazetta is not even playing much. Uh trying to track down Panger. Um it’s fine. We can just yell about stuff. I got a long list of What else would you like to yell about, sir? You know, long list of names to yell about here. Well, just go through the roster really. Matthew Ny has been a guy that’s produced a lot of points, but physically I thought he he he would have been ready to maybe go to another level a little bit. He did. He’s went to Marner’s assist level. He had 17 assists. All right. No body checks. Let’s We’ll just pick up on that while we go to our good buddy Darren Pang. Panger. It’s been way too long, my friend. Yes, it has been. How have you been, buddy? We’ve been um well, good. You know, I mean, other than the Leaf issues that you’re going to solve for us before you talk about Chicago. Just tell us how to solve the Leaf problem. Leaf Nation is like beside themselves after an incredible Blue Jay run right now. You’re going to compare the Leafs to the Blue Jays now and all that magic. Are you out of your mind, Kipper? Oh my goodness. Listen, I can’t I can’t help save you, but I’m just finished watching uh last night’s game right now. And uh all I saw is an LA Kings team, especially in the third period, that played the game the way I know that Craig Barubi likes the game to be played. Down low, holding on to pucks, going to the front of the net, jamming, working, working, working back to the point, tire out the D again, and then uh end up, you know, putting you on your heels. So, to me, that was a prototypical Craig Barubie style of game in the third period by Jim Hiller and the Los Angeles Kings. That’s what I saw. And I also saw I’ve also saw the roster and I I’m I’m going through it and I don’t have the names on there, but I’m like, whoa. Well, right now that’s not much of a you know, it’s not much of an NH like really that’s that’s you know, it’s not a high-end compete NHL team right now as on the roster anyway from last night’s game. Well, it’s funny because it’s almost like uh a parent telling a teenager that they need to like clean the room and they do it begrudgingly. Bubius is telling the Leafs to dump the puck and you see these guys who have played a possession style game here for years going fine. And you know, maybe not having the pace and do you think sometimes a roster and a style the coach wants just don’t mesh? Well, I mean, yeah, it it but I have seen, you know, Chief I mean, he’s he’s he’s a guy that knows what he’s got in front of him, too. Um, but I mean, if you’re if you’re a team that’s playing a slower game and trying to go east to west or board to board before getting it in the zone, you’re like you’re likely going to have to make the perfect pass and the perfect play without speed. Um, and you don’t have the speed to back check back. And uh you know the one thing I saw in that game and I’m not sure exactly what happened but I I was just watching it and I saw a shot of I think it looked like Chief and Knander having a conversation on the bench and then I I didn’t really see you know Neander at the you know as the game went on dial it up either. So that that’s the kind of speed they probably needed uh when the game was you know kind of on the line and you could see that LA was taking it over. So, not a whole lot of speedy players out there um that can go north south, but even a guy like I mean Knander um still likes to play east west. Um um you know, I think I think the guy that gets it the most under here, the one that I see after all those years of being with uh with Craig in in St. Louis is is is John Tiveres. I mean, he understands exactly where he’s at on the ice, when he needs to dump the puck in, when he needs to go get it, when he needs to hold on to it in the offensive zone. and and you know, even though he’s not the fastest player, he almost reminds me a little bit of Ryan O’Reilly playing uh those years uh with Craig Buby. He he gets it. He understands what he wants him to do. You’re watching and listening to Darren Pang, analyst for CHSN and TNT nationally. Uh Panganger, we’re going to see the Leafs play the Chicago Blackhawks Saturday night. Uh there’s a different feel, the the Chicago Blackhawks. We’re going to see a different team that we’ve seen in in the past few years. What exactly are we in for Saturday night with this club compared to what we’ve seen in years past? You know, Kipper, I think you’re going to be really impressed if you haven’t seen it. Um, you know, the last two years have been tough years. I mean, you know, I mean, not a just not a great deal of of high-end players and not a great deal of accountability all the way around, I don’t think. And so now I I look at what Jeff Blashel and you know Mike Valucci is a longtime good coach and um he interviewed for several jobs as a head coach. So you know that’s a good ear for and a voice for for Blash. And then Mike Pekka as well is is on the staff with Andrew Sornson. So all the way all the way around as soon as training camp started the the the first whistle was stop the drill, stop the drill, do it again. Do it again. Do it again. Nope. Stop the drill. I mean that’s that’s stuff that these players needed. they they needed more information. They needed more accountability and they needed more teaching. And so what you’re going to see is a a pretty fast team, a pretty relentless team. Um but a team that um defends well or a decently well. They do give up a lot of shots, but they’re getting better in that area. Um but you’re going to notice right away it’s it’s going to take you 5 seconds to notice the the speed or the I guess the ability to carry the puck uh going forward with speed would be Connor Bard for sure. I mean, he’s a different player. He’s a different person. Um, his uh his interviews are different. I mean, I’m I’m telling you all the way around. He’s uh and selfishly as a broadcaster fellas, you know, how much time we spend, you know, in the locker room when, you know, whether it be on the road or practices, whatever. But he’s uh he’s just been magnificent uh both on and off the ice. So, and his plays really reflected of that. I mean, he’s a he’s a legitimate player. He makes a difference every single time he’s on the ice. So, that part of it, but the other part of it is, and Kipper, you’ll love this. I’m going to slide back for a second. Hang on. H because it’s the hundth year tomorrow night. Oh, first 8,000 fans are going to get this. Let me That’s pretty cool. You see that? Pretty good. Is that awesome? Whoa. I didn’t I didn’t know you caught right. That’s a little wee version of me. Oh my gosh. Tony. Tony Espazito. I mean, come on. Are you kidding me? Who wasn’t Tony Espazito on the driveway or Mike Palmer? One of the two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just with the stance alone, right? The famous stance. Yeah. That’s very cool. Yeah. It’s always been It’s big in the hundth year. You guys know that. And it’s a big celebration. And Danny W is Yeah. Danny WZ is a fourth generation owner and he’s very proud of what they’re doing in this hundth year. So that’s really cool. I uh I spent some time of telling these guys with Daryl Sutter recently. He’s a big Tony Espazito fan. and he’s got drawings from when he was a kid that he had esposito. Love the Blackhawks. Um I I did want to stay on Connor Bdard briefly and and just get a sense to what do you attribute these changes like? Is it a maturity? He’s just gotten older. Did he change training? Did the organization talk to him? What’s brought about a different guy? Yeah, I mean I think from the first time he he left the season last year and obviously disappointing season and um instead of going to the World Championships, which I’m sure, you know, especially everybody in Canada and in Toronto would be wondering, okay, what happened there, he went to the World Championships the year before, um he he was out of gas. Like the the the kids been going non-stop for four years, and he he’s like, I just want to I want to get my training better. I need to get faster. He knew he needed to get lighter boots, but you know, how do you get Dick Ciprios light CCM boots? I mean, you don’t just you don’t just order them online and and and all of a sudden be fleet of foot like Nick Kiprios. You got you got to work at it. You know what I mean, Kipper? And so he he started he trained a little bit with Kent Johnson, his good buddy, who’s of course the Columbus Blue Jackets young star. And they more they they just changed their training a little bit and maybe maybe less on ice. you know, he spends so much time on the ice and it’s been well told that even in Chicago when the Zambon is coming out for practice, I mean, he’s still on the ice. They got to boot him off. But that’s he’s been he’s been really careful and he’s been really diligent about not not wasting time doing the same kind of things. And so, um, it’s, if you look at crossing over, not just east, west, crossing over this way and gaining speed going downhill is is the biggest thing that I noticed. um off the ice. I mean, it sounds to me, and he’s mentioned it to me before, he he did other things. He actually played golf this summer. He hung out with his buddies. He went to restaurants, and then when he went to Hockey Canada’s camp, I I think he really endeared himself to everybody. Uh from Doug Armstrong to I I know I just spoke to John Cooper a couple days ago in Tampa Bay and he he said the kid was magnificent and he was in the middle of everything and you know, so I I maybe it is just a you know, he’s 20 years old now. He’s in his third year. He’s seen what other players are doing. He’s he’s watched how Wayne Gretzky handles things. He watches how other great players handle things. And and I I I just think he’s having a heck of a lot more fun. In fact, just recently he asked about getting fitted for golf clubs. So, who did he call? He he knocked on my door and he said, “Hey, is there any chance that you can help me out? I I’ve got my dad’s old golf clubs.” And he says, “I want to get better at it.” So, I took him out to Club Champion for club fitting. It was about three hours and he couldn’t have been any better. And uh uh from that point on, by the way, that’s when he got the hat-tick, his first one ever, and then he’s been on a what is on a roll ever since. And he’s a scratch golfer now. Yeah. Yeah. And now now he’s hitting fades and draws. Um I I know um probably externally around Chicago there’s not much talk about Baddard and and the Olympics like it is up here, but from what you’re hearing, how important is that to him? And what are you hearing on his chances of participating in the Olympics for Canada? Of course. Yeah, of course. You know what, Kipper? I mean, I would say probably going into that orientation camp, I’m not speaking for anybody, but I would have to think that he was on the outside, far on the outside looking in. I mean, let let’s be honest with all the centermen and all the ability for the Canadian centerman to play the wing, you know, there’s not there’s just not not much room. That and the speed factor and the way that he’s playing now and every single time he’s on the ice, he’s dangerous and he’s backing and he’s learning the defensive side of it and he’s playing winning hockey. Um, but I would say he was way on the outside and now I’d say he’s Whoa. He’s I think he’s caught all of their attention. Why Why wouldn’t he? He and Mlin Celibbrini if they went with that type of youth, which they don’t often do that for Hockey Canada, especially when you get into a single game elimination and everything’s on the line. They want guys that have been under the microscope. They want guys that have been under the lights and have been there tried and true before to be under pressure. But um there’s no way that uh that Doug Armstrong and John Cooper don’t watch every game and go, “Wow.” So I would say that uh he’s put himself in a great position and if he doesn’t make it, he’s got to be real proud of of how he’s put himself right back on the map again and the way that he’s played. So um again, I think tomorrow night you guys are going to be really really impressed and uh and you you’ll be keeping your eye on him after this because he’s a change person, a change player. Other thing too, Kipper, you love this stuff with sticks and that, but you know, in training camp, I said, “Is your stick shorter?” He said, “Yeah, I cut it like a couple of inches.” And wow. And I said, “Do you do anything else?” He said, he said, “I made it, you know, he was a 71 flex with a very long stick for for a 5’10 player.” And he went from 71 to 77. So now you now you got a firmer stick. Now all of a sudden he’s winning a lot of faceoffs. He’s winning. His stick handling in tight is exceptional. I mean, I I’m I’m talking it’s elite now. and the way he pulls that puck in, it’s not getting blocked by the D like it was maybe later last year because maybe it’s a little bit short. He’s bring it back into his feet. So, he’s perfecting what Austin Matthews has already perfected. Awesome stuff, pal. Listen, we’re we’re running out of time here, but don’t be such a stranger. Okay. Never will be. Thanks for having everybody. Thanks, Panganger. Appreciate it. Toronto, Chicago tomorrow night. Uh, shortening your stick two inches is a massive difference in hockey. That would feel I prefer it that way. But K, I’m still getting tweets about how you taped your stick at the Oh, yeah. Oh, they said like rats dog chewed on it before you came out then. Yeah, I know. I will say I taped my stick once and yeah, rat chewing tape. You can do whatever you want when you produce like that. We’re just getting started here on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Doug Mlan for is off the rails Friday. You’re not going to want to miss it. Coming up next on the Real Kipper and Born Show. All right, we go national on the real Kipper and Bo Bourne show. Bore boring. I can be a bore. We are live on Sportsnet. Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, 960 in Calgary, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. If you don’t catch us live, download us at your earliest convenience, Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. This hour of Real Kipper Born brought to you by Bet 365. And as we get going here, we want to remind you, send in texts at 590590, right, Sam? Yeah. Make sure you get them in uh early and often. 59590. And we don’t want Please God, not all the leafs. Like like Calgary, text us. Vancouver, text us. Edmonton, Ottawa, Nova Scotia, Cape Breton. I want to hear from all of you. Let’s hear from New Brunswick territories. How about uh when Sam lists our guest like it’s like the guest and then a few suggested questions. The first one for Doug Mlan is leaf suck. Now what? That’s way too general personal and like that’s just your little I mean hell you’re going through. How many hockey related questions in our fair city in our fair country revolve around those four words? Yeah, most of them I’ve sums up twice today. Sums it up nicely. It’s not bad. It’s funny. Max’s not on right now. Okay. I know we just finished the Leaf edition of our pro program, but I’m going to come back. I’m going to read it exactly the way Sam typed it out. Yes. And then we’re going to bet how long he goes. Oh, yeah. No. All right. Like I I’m seriously contemplating maybe going up and getting a coffee. Three minutes minimum. Uh, you know what we should do? We should make it a goal to read the questions as they’re written, all of them, to whatever guest one day. And I’ll just say, Doug, Doug, senators extend Shane Pinto. I love that. And just see see what we get. No, all you have to do is Doug. That’s it. You don’t even have to say anything else and it’ll go on. What do you guys want to talk about? Jack Hughes’s hand or the Olympics? Oh, Doug’s here. We have Doug. Oh, we don’t. We have Doug. Oh, how long have you been listening, Doug? Oh, boy. Uh, it’s first time I’ve listened to the show. You guys are good. Okay. I’m just talking about I had I had you on with Panganger there. I on uh you know on SportsNet down here in Florida. So, it was good. All right. Welcome back to the program. You’ve been taking a few days off uh you know early in our season here. We don’t really appreciate it. You know what? It’s I’m busy. I’ve got a lot of things going on. Uh, I found a new another new golf course. So, I’ve been trying to get out and play a little golf. I’m trying to My game’s plateaued and I’m really working at it. I’m doing a lot of swimming. I’m just trying to just trying to stay young, you know, and vibrant, you know. Mac, does Jill make you wear that shirt in case you get lost at the beach? I just went out to on the patio and I said, “Is this okay for TV?” Just to bug them. Just to bug them. It’s working. It’s working. So, Mac, I’m going to read um your first question uh exactly the way it was written by Sam. Okay. And it goes like this. Leafs suck. Now what? You know what? It’s kind of funny. I I watched the game last night and uh you know, it’s getting challenging to to watch. But look, um, I just want to I just want to go back in in history here for about a few days when Steve Stale stood up to the media in Ottawa and said that he was really ticked off that he thought his team threw away a bunch of points early in the year. And I’m thinking listening to it, he they don’t have Kachchuk. They’ve got, you know, some challenges to say the least. they’re his $7 million goalender wasn’t really making saves and I’m thinking wow what a what a comment and I look today and and I see they’re in first place without kachuk they’re in first place and I and I really believe and I I go back to the st comment I think what they’ve done there Steve Stoss Travis Green they’ve created they’ve started to create a winning culture Mhm. A a winning culture amongst the group and today they’re in first place and they have a big win over the Bruins last night missing Kachchuk and Shabbat and still had a big win. So the culture is still alive and well in the NHL, a winning culture. I hear I hear the guys saying, “Well, you know, they don’t want to dump the puck.” What do you mean they don’t want to dump the puck? Stars dump the puck if that’s what they have. If that’s all they have, they dump the puck. Okay, everybody says, “Okay, Florida Panthers.” Well, they’re a bunch. They They grind it out. They grind it out. Listen who grinds it out for the Florida Panthers. Barkov does, Eklad does, Reinhardt does, Tachuk Kachuk does, Bennett does, Jones does, Landell does, and Brad Marsh does. has eight first round picks, a lot of them taken in the top five. And they dump the puck when they are supposed to dump the puck and they play as a team. And the Leafs have got to figure this out really quick, that you’re a team and you play the way the coach wants you to play. And when eventually it doesn’t work, they fire the coach and another coach comes in. But you’ve got to play what you’re being told to play as a group. And look, I look, I understand Matthews isn’t in the lineup. I get that something. I don’t know what’s bothering him, but he’s got to become a lot better. Their goalending will be a lot better. They just when they get Tanith and McCay back together, they will be a little bit better. The panic there, it’s not good. And I understand it because I watched last night and I’m looking, they got nine shots after two periods and hardly a scoring chance. So, the culture is still not there in Toronto. And I I pointed out Ottawa because I think they’re trying to build a culture. And today, you’d have to say Ottawa I said I had them even going into the season, these two teams. Ottawa are a better team than them right now by a margin. And they’ve got better players and they play as a team. How long was that answer? Uh, three three minutes and 15 seconds. Hey. So, okay. Hold on. Here’s what I would say after reading Bor’s article the other day. I would say they’re all guilty. Mac, it’s midn November here. How do where were like how do you just snap your fingers and wake up and have culture or change the culture or improve the culture? how I’m not the guy that brought it up. Their general manager brought it up in the summer that he was going to change the DNA. That that is another word for sort of like culture. You know what I’m saying? And right now they look like their skill level has dramatically declined. It’s dramatically declined their skill level. And I I can’t figure it out. I mean, I know Taris has played well and I know Na N has been okay for me. He hasn’t been the horse. I thought he would take a bigger step and I think he will as the season goes on. Their goalending has got to cover for some mistakes sometimes. You need you need the whole team going. But to me, there’s there’s I don’t know if it’s if it’s the pressure in Toronto. It can’t be that. It can’t be that. But whatever is bugging this team and look, you’re going to fire Craig Barubi. Come on. Come on. Keith P and and Treeleman are going to fire Craig Barubi now. Are you serious? His second year in the league. I mean, come on. You You can’t do that. You’ve got to right now fix this team and get your group back together, get your goalending back on place, get your D partners back together, and figure out how you want to play. And is it possible to change culture in season with the same players? Culture can change if you start to have success. Okay. If you start to win some games and you realize how you’re winning. Yeah. Your goalender has to win you some games. Yeah. You’re shut down deep pair. McCabe and Tennov have got to help you win a game. Mc Matthews has got to win you a game. N has got to help you win. Knander, you know, he’s good enough. So, and and there’s got and look with that with that Bub’s got to understand that they’ve got to every NHL player today has to play with a little bit of freedom. Oh, is that Jill? Is it the commissioner? No, it’s No, it’s my buddy business partner. Listen from Yeah. from LA. Yeah. But anyway, Ruby’s got to let them play with they’ve got to play with a touch of freedom. A touch of freedom because freedom breeds a little bit of creativity. They are so noncreative right now. They’re playing slow and they’re and there’s real they’ve got some mental challenges going on right now that they’ve got to work their way through it. I really do. I really believe and I I I think it the panic has got to calm down and this Bubby fire and Bubby talk like come on seriously who are they going to put in there come on think about it Dbor got fired in Jersey after a year and a half or whatever after a couple years in San Jose then he got fired in Vegas then he got fired in Dallas all good teams and he’s the savior I like Peter D’bor for he’s had an unbelievable career, but come on that he’s not he the coach is not the problem right now. All right. So, if um if we were to compare like issues in Toronto to Edmonton, are they similar? Are they not? Because last time I checked, uh you know, I I see McDavid and Dryidle still finding ways to carry this team, but where are their issues compared to Toronto’s? They’re pretty close. They’re pretty close. I mean, the the only difference is they I guess they’ve gone to the finals the last two years and they’ve got McDavid and Dryidle. Their goalending is is frightening. Uh the way they’re defending, the way they’re playing in the front of the net, uh you know, it’s it’s it is frightening right now. But I’ll tell you what, watch I watched a few clips of their actually I watched a little bit of their game last night as well. And I’m I’m thinking when I watch Dryside score that goal, I’m thinking, “Wow, when have I seen a pure goal scorer shooter score the how many different ways this guy scores goals?” I was blown away blown away watching him last night. I mean, he is. Anyway, would you have an answer to that? And here’s here’s the difference between Toronto and them. If that offside wouldn’t have been called, they would have probably won the game. So, are we left with the conclusion that the Oilers are better, worse, something than last year? Do we do they need to make changes or what’s going on? Well, the goalending is is such a major issue. Is it Why are they so reluctant to do something there? Well, here here’s a big problem. Like, I I looked today, what do the Leafs need? They need a top six forward and they need a top four D. But here’s the problem. Most teams in the league need that. Yeah. And if you don’t get your work done in the summer, it’s really hard to get it done during the season until you get to trade deadline. That’s why it’s tough to make those type of deals to acquire those high-end players. You know, like the picking up the Marons and you pick up the Joneses like Florida have done over the years, but those deals typically come at the deadline or in the off season. It’s hard to do it right now. And uh you know I I just think they’re both teams. I mean I think Edmonton because of Dry Cidle and you know McDavid and Heyman coming back. Bousard’s going to find his game. They still have got the challenge with goalending and I don’t know how you fix that. I don’t know how you fix it. You’re watching and listening to Doug Mlan on Off the Rails Friday. So Mac, you mentioned culture and it seems to follow around Brad Marian everywhere. you mentioned him a thousand points. Um the feeling was when he was leaving Boston to go to Florida. It was just to be amongst, you know, a supporting guy to the Barkovs and the Reinards and the Bennett. And we wake up today and it feels like the Florida Panthers is Brad Marian’s team today. Like it it’s blown me away like since the first day he went there. I had heard it before from players in Boston. You know, Sean Carali used to tell us what what a what a leader he was. What a what an unbelievable teammate he was. And what a leader he was. And when a kid made the team, when you make the team, you became Brad Marshon’s friend, you know, because he he he meant that my he he’s he’s grabbed this team by the bootstraps in Florida this year and has and has hauled them into games. He’s hauling them into games. And you know, that’s what I mean. Those type of acquisitions. I know. I remember you going off on tangents last year. The Leafs have got to get Marian. They got to get Marian. They got to get somebody like him. Well, I hate to say this. You were right in two things. When I was working with you, you were ranting and raving that the Leafs should get Bennett. And now you’re ranting and raven. They should have got Marawn. And I have to give you credit. You were right on both. I mean, you’ve been wrong on a lot of things, too. You’ve been wrong in a lot of things, too. But you were right on those two things. The Leafs did try, but you know, I know. Yeah, they tried. They didn’t try hard enough, obviously. you know, sure would like to go back in time and give him an extra million dollars per year on whatever offer they gave him, which is so I I think I I just think if they can win some games, but they’re not going to get it going, guys, until they get Wall and Stallers back to their game because they’ve got to win games for them. How many players a year have to win games for you? You need your stars to You need your goalies to win you some games you’re not supposed to win. You need your captain and superstar to win games that you’re not supposed to win. You need your grinders to win you games that you’re not supposed to win. That’s what you need as a group and and develop a team. And right now, they’re not a team. This is I mean, look, and it’s hard for me. I was thinking, you know, the the troubles I had in in Columbus and how hard it is to win. And I said to you guys in the spring, be careful when you give away good players. They’re hard to find. Really hard to find. Absolutely. Hey, um, kind of along this theme, I’m thinking about the Vancouver Conucks lately who gave up, not gave up JT Miller, but you know, they’ve they’ve moved on from some decent players over time here. Jim Rutherford had some comments in the past day or two basically saying that like they’re not rebuilding. It doesn’t always work when you tear it all down and you things are they’re below 500 right now. What do you think of where the Canucks are at the idea of continually trying to compete when you’re pretty clearly not a cup contender or even close? Yeah. Well, I I think it’s really tough. Like I read the article as well from Jimmy and I and I I thought, you know, I there was one thing that kept jumping out at me as to why he was talking that way. And I’ll tell you exactly what it is. Good. Use does not want to hear they’re going into a rebuild. Ah, because if that is if those words are mentioned, guess what? He gone. He will not be there. And you know, you’ve got Demco coming back who’s been unbelievable and now he’s banged up again. Hopefully, it’s minor. Adams had them playing hard despite a lot of injuries. But it jumped out at me plain and simple. use you bring up that you don’t have to worry about it. Okay. So, Matt rebuild take us through the minds of an executive like Jimmy Rutherford. You’ve been there before. Okay. You got the situation with Hughes in two years. He’s UFA. Okay. How do you go about it? At what point do you have to definitively definitively find out what’s going on? You cannot run the risk the same risk the Toronto Maple Leafs made on Marner where he essentially gets to walk out the door for free. So what do you do guys? What do you do if if if if that happens it is not a a rebuild. It is a major rebuild to say the least. But here’s the here’s the challenge. I talked to Jimmy Dealano recently about this. the the the num the NHL GM job today is so much more difficult and the number one reason it is is because guys can walk after seven years of pro that that puts enormous pressure on team building team construction and every aspect of it. The other thing and Jimmy D said when I got the job in Detroit, I thought he said to me, “Doug, I I thought I have to be a dummy not to get this Detroit Redwing team in the playoffs. 16 of 21 teams make the playoffs. If I can’t be one of 16, then I’m a dummy. Today, it’s 16 of 32. You get zero help typically from the lottery because it’s a joke when a team goes from 14 to one and 11 to2 and the bottom teams are bottom feeders and you got to be unbelievably lucky to win the lottery. So between the lottery and between you know the free agency and so many and so no trade clause no move clauses 100%. It’s all those things have have complicated the job. So, you know what? And Jimmy, well, you can’t re and and rebuilding in Vancouver, I don’t get what’s happened to them. I mean, the JT Miller Patterson thing, how that got out of hand, I I for the life of me, I thought they were the year they went seven games with with Edmonton two years ago, I thought they were ready to take a major step. I really did. But anyway, I gota I gotta ask you about Calgary and um Murray Edwards is the owner in Calgary who came out earlier through various reports has no interest in trading Cadri. No. So for a team that’s on the bottom right now and he’s and at a 35 year old still in demand around the league, what does that do for Calgary or or Craig Conroy when when the owner says no interest in in moving Cadri? Then you have to schedule another lunch with them. And I told you when I used to go to lunch with Mr. McConnell, they were great lunches because he’d fall asleep. I’d eat my lunch and we’d I’d leave before he woke up. So, they were perfect. That’s truly incredible to me. And you’re not kidding either. But I got to tell you, the best story ever was when we went to uh we’re at a board of governor’s meeting and I was up Mr. Mr. McConnell was having trouble walking. So, I went up and got him his meal and brought it down to him and Berky sends me a text. You You kiss ass. Next thing you’ll be Next thing you’ll be else next thing you’ll be cutting his meat for. So that’s my advice to Craig. Cut his meat. Have a meeting with him. Do whatever you have to do to allow you to make some trades. Oh my goodness. How different are the relationships between owners and GMs now? Like now there’s corporations involved. You can’t be cutting the meat of like a private equity firm. No. There. Hey, don’t ever kid yourself. There’s a lot of them still the very same. There’s a lot of them haven’t changed, I’ll tell you. So, you know what it it and now and they got Anderson there, the the the savior for every team in the league. The last time I watched him, he was worse covering the front of the net than any of the Leafs defenseman. So, let’s not get too excited there about his defensive play. I like the way he passes the puck, but in, you know, he’s got he’s got a few issues, too. So, don’t get too excited. Sandy, I know people, everyone is excited about trying to pry Rasmus Anderson out of there. Um, let’s talk about other Canadian teams right now. The Montreal Canadians started redhot. Uh, couple injuries, Kaden Ghoulie’s hurt. Uh, not sure if he’s on New Hook last night, went down, and they lost a couple games in a row in relatively embarrassing fashion. What are your thoughts on where they’re at, Doug? Like, is this a blip? What What are the Canadians? You know what? I I love their, you know, you love their talent base. They’ve gone through a bit of a rebuild and they’ve got some nice, very good-looking players there that are, you know, playing well. They But, you know, last night and again, I come back to to culture. I come back to Dallas rolling in there, Montreal playing well, and they spanked them. And it was a it was a, you know, it was a fun game for Dallas, but it’s it’s expectations of the good teams. You watch Colorado the way they’re playing now. I mean, it’s all business. It’s all business. It’s not. And you watch Dallas come in last night. I know they didn’t have a good playoff last year, but they’re all business when they play. Robertson put on a show last night, but it again, it’s it’s that culture that Jimmy Nil and them have bred out there. I think it’s I I people laugh about it. I still think it’s a really really important part of the game. I really do. boy, you start seeing the distance between Western Conference teams and Eastern Conference teams. And I don’t know, there might be five teams in the West that you’d like better than any in the East. I mean, like I I mean today today, and I was thinking about this today, today in the West, it’s Colorado and Dallas, Vegas. That’s what it is for me based on 20 games or so, almost at the 20 game. Those are the two teams that’ll play for the championship in the West in my opinion. In the East, it is wide wide wide open. And right now, who would you say in the East is is the best team right now for you? Would it be New Jersey? Would it be Carolina? Until Jack Hughes cut his hand at the team dinner last night. That’s all they need. But I like the way I like the way Jerseyy’s playing, but it’s it’s there’s nobody that everybody’s come and gone, you know, with spurts of looking good. I mean, when Ottawa is in first place today and you know what’s that tell you? I mean, it’s tied with Montreal. That’s right. Montreal are there. And I look I look at the stand I mean, I I look at the stands in standings of the first five teams that are in the playoffs. I’m thinking I don’t I I didn’t have four of them in the playoffs yet they’re in there right now. That’s why it’s so wide open. But it’s going to to me to me Carolina is still a very good team, but they refuse to fix their goalending. I don’t know what they’re going to do there. They refuse to, but I still think they’re a really good team. The Panthers, I don’t know if Barov’s going to be back or not. I don’t know what, you know, that’ll be a tough a tough situation, but it is so wide open in the East. It it’s scary how wide open anybody I I tell you I like Ottawa. I love I love Pinto. I like Ba. I like Sanderson. I just there’s so many of those young guys that seem to be getting it. Seem to be getting it, you know, and I like I like what I’m seeing there. A a strange situation with Jack Hughes. If you haven’t heard, he cut himself at a team meal last night. Uh yeah, he’s juggling knives. I I don’t know. What is the strangest call you got off ice for for a guy that was unavailable for to play? Uh, I guess the one I got was that um they come into my office. Was it because they were going to be arrested? You mean because I’m But it’s open to you answer any way you want. I had two guys come in my office and say they had some trouble last night. They ran into a parked car. So I said, “Well, go down and and talk to our lawyer there and you got, you know, and then we’ll deal with the police and get this we’ll get this straightened out.” And the lawyer come said, “Doug, we got a little bit of a problem.” I said, “What’s the problem?” They hit nine park cards. Come on. Really? Stop it. And they had and they had some friends with them that they shouldn’t had with. Oh no. Other than that, I mean, you know, like seriously, you know, juggling knives. minor to that. Yeah. The worst the worst though was L O L O L O L O L O L O L O L O L O L O Line calling me the night before our franchise home opener. Not home opener. Franchise home opener. Yeah. I’m barbecuing in the backyard having a relaxing night all excited about people coming to town and people in town for our franchise home opener. Lyall, my captain, calls me and said, “Uh, Doug, I got a problem.” him. I said, “Ly, we all have problems. What’s what’s the problem?” He said, “I just got charged for impaired driving.” I said, “Are you kidding me?” The night before your first game, I thought, “No, this this can’t be happen this game.” And the the Columbus media, as astute as they are, they found out about it five years later. So, anyway, we we were able to keep it under the, you know, but anyway, so yeah, things happen, you know. 1 800 copper. Isn’t that the number you dialed? Those are the stories I can tell. There’s some I can’t tell. Yeah. My goodness. Well, maybe we’ll leave it off that uh that story. Um yeah. All right. Anything else on your mind? You want to get off your pink t-shirt? Oh, I I got I you know what? You know, you know it’s good when Bruce Gerio sending me textes. He likes what I’m saying. Oh, very Ottawa. Very Ottawa. for sure. Anyway, okay, man. Everything’s good. Everything’s good. Tea off time this afternoon. Jill just opened the room and told me to keep it down. Keep it down. Well, you’re free. You’re free. Yeah, it gets dark now. It’s what? You’re in Florida now. There’s no time to go golf. No, I’m not going to repeat everything she said. No. All right, back. Thanks for doing this, Paul. Hey, thanks for having me, guys. Okay. And hang up, right? Don’t don’t just linger. Thanks, Mac. Have a good weekend, Doug McLean. Okay, boys. Wow. That very funny that you and I both started our timer on on Mac for the first hour. Oh, we said we were going to 3:26. 3 at 3:15, but I was late starting my clock. 317. 3:26. Yeah, we weren’t that far off. Game time. Game time. Uh, it’s game time. Set my bet 365. Visit the app latest odds and see why it’s never ordinary at bet 365 must 18 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. So, I was looking through uh some of this stuff while you were talking to Doug and this is a really interesting one for me where you may be able to extract some value. So, you can bet on the country of the Stanley Cup winner and of course there are two countries that have hockey teams in this in the National Hockey League. Yeah. What do you think the number is for USA to win the cup? 70US 700. It’s only minus 400. Yeah. when the Canada is plus 300. So basically it’s like I looked at what the Oilers are and the Oilers are 10 to1 to win the cup. To me that’s a great bet the USA to win the cup atus. You know I was actually going to ask awesome number. We kind of ran out of time. How many Canadian teams? No minus 400. So like you got to lay some juice obviously some heavy juice but like what are the chances that a Canadian team wins the cup this year? They’re getting worse every day. How many Canadian teams made playoffs last year? Five and a six. the Calgary Flames tied for the final spot. So, we almost had six in. Yes. This year, Jets are in. Yes. I mean, that’s a Yes. Yes. Um, Montreal is almost certainly Edmonton still, guys. Really? They should be either Toronto or Ottawa. Like maybe four this year. Ottawa. Oilers are currently Ottawa over Toronto for sure. Currently outside the playoff picture with a -9 goal differential this year. Edmonton Oilers. Yeah, he I’m just saying it could be three. So, yes, that bet could be good. It’s a it’s it’s a decent number. I was surprised by that that the value on that was that good. Uh and there is uh also another one on here I love teams to record 120 regular season points. And if you look at what the Colorado Avalanche have done so far, yeah, what how many points they have so far? got the standings 20 is a high number. They have 29 points from 18 games. Yeah, they’ve won 12 games. Uh they’ve lost one in regulation and had five overtime losses. 29 points from 18 games. They’re plus 240 to get to 120 points. Doable. Good bet. 120 points is like for them. They feel like they are going to go must be pacing it. They must be they feel like they’re going to go on like a 15game winning streak at some point this year. They’re undeniably great. So, couple interesting ones there from uh from uh Bet365. Anyways, uh that was Game Time presented by Bet 365. Visit the at latest odds and see why it’s never ordinary at Bet 365 M 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. And do not forget, we’re going to break uh to text us at fan. Text us at 59590. Uh the lines are already pretty full, but try to sneak a couple in here. I got some good ones from all over the country. So, okay. On that note, we’ll take a break here. Uh we’ll get to those after the break. And also Daily Faceoff, The Athletic first reported about the concerns about the rink at the Olympics and now Daily Face Off uh today came out with more concerns out of Commissioner Gary Bentman. We’ll get into that more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Welcome back to the program. A reminder this hour of real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet 365. Nick Gabriel’s Justin Bourne Sammy McKe. We close out the week. A little tired. Yeah, every day. I started I started playing hockey again, too. That’s Yeah, you’re back into it. I love that. Yeah, that’s great. How how is it going? Uh we saw I fell the other day, Thursday morning. Uh but the ribs held up. You fell? I did fall. Tripped or I just over my own two feet. Yeah. Tripped on the blue line. Towigard on. Certainly glad it didn’t happen last week when uh skateart we lit it up. Uh it’s great. Um before we get into some texts, uh Daily Face Off has followed up uh a report from Gary Bman basically saying that uh this is coming down to the wire. Uh it’s not our preference essentially an Olympic rink being ready for the being ready. Okay. So the whole idea was that this arena was going to have some sort of tournament play that was kind of watched over by the in December. That’s not happening. Yeah. So the rink will be used for the first time by the Olympians. So that’s in three and that would be the women first cuz they start I believe 5 days before the men. Okay. So Santa Julia arena Thursday the 12th against the Czech against Czecha is Canada. So there’s just there may be no way to know for sure how this rink’s going to hold up. They could be playing a gold medal game in slush. Beon says by the end of it we will send our own people to take a look for ourselves because the well-being of our players playing in this tournament is the most important thing. Yeah. He says it’s coming down to the wire. It wouldn’t be our preference if we were in control. Hopefully it will be okay and they say we’ll be hopefully that’s the case. I want an analysis. I tweeted like the first time I had the thought might they not go? Like might they not allow the players to go? My understanding from talking to a few people is it’s not in jeopardy. Okay. They’ll they’ll move it to a different venue. Different venue. They they could they could be playing in Switzerland. Who knows? Honest to God, that’s the exact thing I was going to say. Just go to Davos. Just go have the tournament where the Spangler Cup is. Yeah. Is there not other like this part of my complete ignorance, but is there’s not another sheet anywhere? There’s an Italian league, pal. So, yeah. Like, there’s got to be a sheet somewhere. Oh, a sheet with what? with 14 seats in it. That’s from is that they they’re making bank on this event. You’re not you’re not taking How many seats is this supposed to be? Do we billion dollar athletes and sticking them to any sheet? 14,000. Uh yeah. So it’s a brand new building with space for 14,000 state-of-the-art acoustic sightelines, modern amenities, unique atmosphere, blah blah blah. Okay. So there So to follow up on my on sheet talk here, there’s not another one with 14,000 seats in a league. I doubt I doubt Like AC, they have a hockey club. I think uh Ray Croft played for AC Milan at one point. Like get on the Google. No, no, no, no, no. Pogy played for AC Milan. Like how many there’s I don’t know. From what I’ve gathered, Davos would be sick though. From what I’ve gathered right now, there is no plan B. Uh hockey Milano Ross and Blue holds 4th,000. Oh, that’s like What do you think the Italian league was, pal? Buddy, that’s the Lumly Bay Shore Road. Hey, our line could play there. Honestly, like London has an 11,000 seat bar. Yeah. For the night. Yeah. London, Ontario is not 4,000’s crazy. The Ultras love the AC Milan hockey team for sure. They’re going to go there and chant and sing. The Ultras. Oh, that’s like a European term for hardcore fans. Oh, never heard that before. Mr. Worldly, I guess. European kick hockey guy. Uh, so no worries. Some worries like but like for me and for Canadian hockey fans, we’re going to get to watch our beloved hockey stars play in the hockey limit. I think so. We’re just not sure where. Oh, okay. Okay. But I don’t care about where it is. Okay. I just want to watch it cuz I’m not going. Maybe it’ll be in Lumly Bayore. Yeah. Cheswood Arena. UBS Arena getting their their Allar game after could do it for Pond. Yeah. Yeah. There’s Is there 4,000 seats in there? I don’t know. Uh tax tax tax. All right. Um let’s see here. Gentlemen, James from Ottawa. Hi, James. Thoroughly enjoy your show. Great way to get your text read. Was curious if the NHL has ever discussed the options of coaches refusing a penalty shot and taking a two-minute penalty instead. It sounds weird, but there are times where it might work in the team’s best interest, i.e. protecting a lead late in the game. Yeah, I’ve heard this suggestion the a variety of times in different ways. You know, what would they prefer to have? Like if you have some plug who gets hauled down on a penalty shot, could you just take the the two minutes? I don’t think no. You know, like it doesn’t make any sense to me. I I don’t want to change it. I I think I think you lose the hold your breath moment of a penalty shot. It is tremendous drama. It never happens. And I I’ll say this and Elliot I know recently made the same thing. It should happen. Call penalty shots. It if the you call a few, it would disincentivize people to hack people on breakaways. You get cleaner breakaways. They’re way too chintzy giving them away for sure. And it is an exciting moment for the fans. You call one every couple games. You know the amount of times you’re like, “Well, it wasn’t technically.” It’s like just call it. If a guy’s in alone, gets hauled down, let’s do it. How many penalty shots you guys have? Um I’ve had one breakaway my whole life. One breakaway in the NHL. I was a shootout shooter. So I in a game it’s much different than Yeah. A shootout, right? I don’t think I ever had a penalty shot. Wow. It’s rare. I’ve had one in junior. Nice. You score? No. No, I did not. But you know it it’s hard. I think 30% or less do score. Right. you know, like it’s it’s just so much different having seven at bats that you’re striking out, right? It’s it’s hard like as you know, as like a guy that it’s such a different mentality than having a breakaway where you’re like standing there and you have they’re blowing the whistle and you have time to think about what you’re do as opposed to like a breakaway in this in the in the flow of a game. I’ve never understood it. You hear some of the guys say, “Oh, I just go down and like, you know, take what the goalie gives me or something.” I don’t I always tried to make something happen, you know, like had a plan. But you’re you’re I could just tell from playing with you last week like you’re way better on your edges than I were. I to to be really like Pastor Knack. Did you see Pastor Knack’s breakaway goal against the Leafs? Like I can’t move my feet to go east west like that to to pull a goalie off a post. So you’re looking for I have to I have to look and I have to I can go I like five hole. I like low stick side, but I I can’t move my feet like that to to draw a goalie out, right? And that and that lowers my odds. I’m telling you right now, if you had that plus that plus that Yeah. you like your chances of of being a lot higher than 300, batting 300. Well, right now, uh, Ziggress has the highest, uh, penalty shot conversion rate or shootout rate. He’s like 14 to 23 or something crazy. 15. Sick number. It’s disgusting against very talented besties in the world. Twothirds of the time he’s scoring on on a pill. I mean, that’s on pace for the best ever. Yeah, for sure. Like was at the minimum cut off he’s he’s the best ever right now. Whatever if you call it 20 shots or whatever. Uh shoot percentage. I’m just looking up the best shootout percentages of all time. Yeah, it’s like uh Jussi Yoken and France Nielsen, TJ Oshi, Patrick Kane has the most shootout goals. He’s million attempts. 53 goals in 132 shots. Gez, that’s good. T That’s a guy that moves a stick like a Ginsu knife. Taves is right cutting yourself. Sorry, Jack. But Taves is right behind him. 52 goals and 110 47 points. Do you remember sending Taves three straight in? I remember. the best they Okay, sorry to slag on the NHL uh records, but they have like the best percentages for guys who have shot one for one. Yeah, like I know you need a minimum. Yeah, Petri uh Numalin had eight goals on 10 shots. 80%. Jeez, that’s still that’s really good. Anyways, uh we can move on past this. Uh hi, you forgot to say Ottawa in your list of cities. The city so fun uh that you forgot. Sam, I think I said Ottawa in my when I was like text us from cities. I think I said Ottawa. Uh, but my hockey comment is this. When are the when are the Oilers going to make a move for a goalie? We need someone with less than a four goals against average and more than 850 save percentage. Fan base is getting anxious. Getting anxious. You see Twitter like every game they’re like, what what do we have to do to get a goal? The fans are absolutely apppoplected. They’re losing their mind. So, can can you imagine if they somehow pulled off a move for like Sorrowos? Like how that would just change Bennington. It would just change everything. At least the energy. If they traded for Soros today, if they traded for Bennington, who’s worse than the goalies they have this year, I’d be like, they’re winning the cup. That would be like my first reaction. Honestly, it would because you’re you’re right about the energy. Like, we got to do something different. Just the energy alone. The excitement and the energy. Yeah. And I sometimes I just watch Conor McDavid and it’s like do do I have to play 25 minutes every night? Do I have to me and Leon have to score three goals every night? Like I’m watching I’m going is there going to be a point where he’s like I’m burnt. I’m done. I I mean I need a week off. I mean Four Nations face off. He gets I’m scared he’s going to get hurt. He plays on wood. Just give him something that he can go another way to win. Another way to win. A regroup. Uh, okay. Now, not taking a pay raise makes a little bit more sense to me. You spent it on sorrows. Yeah, you spent it on sorrows. That’s at least the perception that he would have on it. not, you know, with all due respect to Walman and and Ekholm, if my money went there, I I’ve already lost with them. But, you know, I would like you, let’s say you did do Sorrowos or someone else, and I I’ve heard seen people say, “You don’t know that these guys are going to be better or Bennington’s worse or whatever.” At least you can say you tried. At least you can say, “Everyone said this was a problem. We tried to address it.” You know, you got to try. Got to take your bat off the shoulders. Can’t go down looking. Cult’s third strike. No more baseball references, please. Okay, Sammy. No more baseball. Sammy, you ruined me. I’ll never get over it. Never get over it. I actually had like a moment today where I saw like a clip and I got really sad. That still kills me. Okay, that is such a funny sports emotion. Still kills me. I can’t I’ll never get over it. Uh, hello Jason from New Brunswick here. Nice. We’re covering all off. When is Chris Ozgood going to get some Hall of Fame consideration? He has better numbers and more cups and half the goalie in the hall. Love the show, boys. You don’t want my take on that. I You’d have to go and revisit everything, but he’s a top 10, isn’t he? In wins, for sure. So, I don’t know. Like Kujo Kujo’s numbers are better than Chris Osgoods without the the cups. I I don’t know. I just, you know, like in the NFL, they have guys they call systems quarterbacks. like ah he just like made it work in that team systems or whatever. That was Chris Osgood to me. Like he played behind unbelievable Red Wings teams. Chris Osgood’s 15th all time with wins. Okay. So 401. It’s a pile. 401. I have a lot of respect for Chris Osgood and his career and he’s a great man and all that stuff. I don’t mean to but I don’t I’m not a great kind of judge of who should be in and who should be out. That’s just not my specialty. you can. It seemed a lot easier 15 years ago when it was like, “Oh, you played a thousand games. Oh, you got a thousand points. You’re in.” But I I had someone say the other day, the Hall of Fame criteria should be if we have to debate it, it’s a no. Does somebody have to get in every single year? There’s still like, okay, like we’ve got 500 goal scorers. John Tvaris just got in. Everybody’s convinced that he John Tvar, sorry. What did I say? No, we had discussions about John Tavvaris with his 500th goal now being a guy that should be able to get in. And by the numbers, you’re like, he is certainly in the ballpark. But we’ve also had Keith Kachuk, I believe, at 500 goals. Pat Verbique at 500 goals. Rod Bindor, Rod Bindore, where is he? Uh, I look at Steve Lurmer and I’m like, a guy that plays the game the way he did for that many consecutive games has no spot in the Hall of Fame and what is what is that fine line? I don’t know. But I guess if you’re looking at all these names, there’s not Hall of Famers and not Hall of Famers. We’ve just picked a spot and said, “Here, this is where the line is for Hall of Fame and this is where I think the baseball hall of fame does it by far the best. It’s the hardest to get into. like you some years guys just it’s just don’t get in or it’s one person or it’s one like I just don’t I just feel like there has to be seven people every time. I feel like it devalues what it actually is. I just Anyways, we’re going to go down. I just want to get this one in quick. Andrew from Dawson City in Yukon and I asked for the Yukon. I love the show guys watch every week. Never miss it. Kipper Bourne, love you guys. Uh Kucks question is do the Hugh Do they move on from Hughes? The Conucks are bad and it’s sad. That’s what he says. Yeah. Um, he can’t I don’t understand what move on from him means. It means Here’s what everyone knows. He’s only He’s the only one that’s going to decide if he moves on. Vancouver will not move on off of him. They wouldn’t trade him. They will only on his instructions to trade him. But if they went and asked him, “Hey, do you want to leave?” What do you think he’d say? Uh, I’ve got a contract. or you know I mean I don’t think I don’t think he’d go to him and say go go to Vancouver and say I’m ready to move now. I don’t think it’s his play. Put it that way. It’s just where they’re at as a franchise and what we know he wants and whatever. It’s really hard to see a world where he’s like, “Yeah, I’ll lose in Vancouver, you know, if they’re going to.” This is why it’s it’s got a whole new dynamic now. And I I don’t want for Vancouver fans the same thing to happen that the Leaf fans went through with Martner. Well, and that’s, you know, there was like a window where it’s like, boy, you could have got something for him and salvage something. And that’s kind of where you’re getting into for Conucks fans where it’s like the window was when after Kyle Dubis got fired and Brad Liver came in here and he had a week to make the move before his full move kicked in. Right. That have been a hell of a thing. Holy smokes, that would have been quite a He didn’t know his key cards work yet. So, you know, do they want to make sure they don’t get left in the dark with nothing? All right, boys. That’s it. Okay. 553. Almost out of time. So, I got no more tax for you. All right. Well, let’s look ahead to the weekend. Toronto plays the Chicago Blackhawks on Saturday night. Uh, four straight losses, we’ll call it. We just heard from Darren Pang. If you didn’t uh catch them, you can catch them on a download on any platform. and he said they’re fast and quick and uh a team that is unfamiliar to people that have watched the last few years great of the Chicago Blackhawks. Great. And a new Connor Bard looking to get some positive traction for Canada while playing Toronto drag release. Two drag release. Can he shoot the puck? Can he shoot? Love it. Our thanks to Darren Pang, as we just mentioned, and Doug Mlan on this edition of Off the Rails Friday. Sure glad you were aboard all week. Sure glad uh you’re with us. You get a chance, give us a rating and review. We’d love to hear from you. Go Owens sound playing in London tonight. Big game battle. No, it’s in London. It starts in an hour. But no helicopter. No, Edward Rogers helicopter you kipper. I don’t do that. Have a great weekend everybody.

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to yet another disheartening loss by the Toronto Maple Leafs. TNT’s Darren Pang offers his insights on the Buds’ struggles as well as the revived Chicago Blackhawks and Connor Bedard’s Olympic outlook. Later, Doug MacLean joins the show to discuss the Leafs struggles and how similar they are to those being faced by the Edmonton Oilers.

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0:00 – Kings vs Leafs Reaction
33:04 – Darren Pang
49:30 – Doug MacLean
1:21:47 – Olympic Rink Status, Your Texts

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Real Kyper & Bourne – November 14, 2025

#NHL #Hockey #Podcast