Are the Orlando Magic figuring things out? + LaMelo Ball wants out

Are the Orlando Magic figuring things out? + LaMelo Ball wants out

[Applause] Good morning and welcome to the NBA daily for November 21st, 2025. I’m Dave Defor here with Espar Henny. Coming up, LaMelo Ball might want out of Charlotte. We’re going to talk about that a little bit. We’ve got injuries all over the NBA and our man Josh Robbins, the legend, was in Orlando. We’re going to talk to him. [Music] Good morning everybody. Good morning S. Good morning Dave. Or as or as Josh would call it, good night. Good night. Yes. Josh Robbins, our our man who covers uh the Orlando Magic and the Washington Wizards. Um took us off the rails completely. Um we’ve got our our segment with him after the break. So, uh, stick around for that because, uh, it’s delightful. I promise it’s good stuff. Yeah, it’s great. I mean, he’s amazing. Uh, one of my favorite people to talk to. Um, hey, look, we got to we got to jump around real fast real because we don’t have a lot of time before we get to Josh. And it seems like we’ve got another star who might be disgruntled with this team, LaMelo Ball. According to our good friend over at Yahoo Sports, Kelly Eco, miss you, buddy. Uh he’s reporting that LaMelo Ball may want out of Charlotte. He was benched the other night. Um he’s averaging career lows in field goal percentage and three-point percentage. He’s been a low spot for the Charlotte Hornet team that has kind of had bright spots for the first time in years. S this is a I don’t know. It feels like a weird time for this to be happening. Yeah. What Kelly also reported is that, you know, the Hornets, while they’re not necessarily rushing to trade LaMelo Ball, they’re also in some sort of way open to this conversation. And I think part of that is the fact that like they’re not necessarily sure LaMelo is the guy to lead them into this. It’s all new people in there, sick. They didn’t own the team even when when the pick was made. So, you’re not married to it. It’s actually they should feel free to cut bait. Yeah, absolutely. And on top of that, look, like they have a lot of young talent outside of LaMelo now that they can build with and this is the perfect type of group. If you think about Khan Caniple, who in my opinion is leading the race for rookie of the year right now, uh the two other rookies that they’ve signed and and Scion James and Ryan Caulk Brener who are like rotation players for them at this point, Brandon Miller, who’s injured, but hopefully will come back and be an additive piece for them. they’re they’re kind of building without LaMelo while having LaMelo on the roster. Um, and so that that group in my opinion, Dave, is sort of the perfect group to bring another lottery pick to. So you you think of this stacked 2026 draft, you have an opportunity to add, you know, a Darren Peterson, an AJ Debansa, a Camboozer, one of those, you know, massive pieces to a group that already looks like they’re building. I’m not surprised that this is happening with LaMelo. The thing I’ll throw out to you is who do you think would want LaMelo Ball? Man, that’s that is the $50 million question. Um it’s a little bit like J, right? It is. He doesn’t play. And this is why like the Hornets had to build without him in mind. He doesn’t play enough. Yeah. They don’t know when he’s going to be available, right? Yeah. Yeah. And and also when he does play, he’s a little bit of a spaceette sometimes. Like I don’t know if he’s going to be the best player on a on a good team ever. I don’t know if he’s going to be the second best player on a good team because his decision-m sometimes you just don’t know what’s going to as as amazing of a talent as he is and creative. He also sometimes does some of the dumbest stuff you’ve ever seen on a basketball court. Yeah. So I it’s a good question about his value. I think we’re going to find out a lot here in the next few weeks because between him, obviously we we’ve heard rumblings about John Morant, Anthony Davis, like we’re going to know a lot about uh a bunch of guys value around the league. And but all of these guys are guys who don’t play. Yep. Guys who don’t play. And also, I think I think the other part to that is with this new structure of the CBA, I think teams are a lot more hesitant to go after that star who’s not necessarily a star. You know, the guy who isn’t your number one option, like trading tons of picks for that guy or using salary to go out and get that guy. It’s not as clear-cut of an option as it was maybe four or five years ago as it is today to go out and risk things to go out and trade for a LaMelo Ball, a Jarant, an Anthony Davis. You didn’t mention him, but potentially a Trey Young knowing that you got to extend Trey. There’s so many conversations that come with that. And I think to your point, yeah, LaMelo is not an available player. In our preseason thing, I talked about how there’s pressure on LaMelo ball because if you compare the seasons or or the years Zion and LaMelo have had, Zion Zion has not played I mean LaMelo has not played that many more games than Zion has. And look at the way we talk about Zion. Distressed asset. No one is going to trade for him. Nobody relies on him. There’s no reliability there for him to be healthy. I think a lot of the same things apply to LaMelo Ball on top of what you mentioned. LaMelo is skinny. He’s skinny. Yeah. Well, yeah, sure. That’s the only difference. If if he if he didn’t have like a fit looking body, we would we would say the same stuff about him. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good point. And look, on top of that, like the decision-m is tough. There’s there whatever team trades for LaMelo, if this ends up being the case and he does get traded, he has to go to a place that like can harness those powers, right? You are this incredible creator, but can you work within a system to do that? Sure. Can you be a guy who can like really raise the level of an offense while also being this crazy three-point shooter guy who can knock down onelegged threes, you know? It’s funny. So, did you see the clip of our our John Krinski? He was on Zack Loe’s live podcast up in in Minneapolis. Uh, all right. The the president of the United States. John Krinski relays a story about how the the Timberwolves, they interviewed, you know, in that draft, they interviewed a bunch of players. They they land on Anthony Edwards. But one of the things where they, you know, they asked LaMelo Ball what he wanted to do after he was done playing basketball, he said he wanted wanted to be president of the United States of America, which more realistic now than maybe felt then, but um you know, he is a reality television star. Technically, if you watch the Ball Brothers, they he’s done that. Nobody watched that show. Let’s let’s be for real. um s everybody is hurt in the NBA. Um there were there were only four games on on Thursday night cuz they’re loading up the schedule on Friday for the NBA Cup. But if you go through the list, Clippers Magic, no Kawhi Leonard, no Paulo Bancer, Kings Grizzlies, no Demanis Aonis, he’s going to miss a month. Um no John Morant, he’s still out. Philadelphia 76ers and the Milwaukee Bucks, no Embiid, uh no Giannis for the Bucks. And then Atlanta, San Antonio, no Trey Young, no Victor Women, Yama, no Stephan Castle, no Dylan Harper. Man, it we are, you know, the the conversation around injuries right now is all about soft tissue and just there’s too many miles and whatnot. But I will say this, we are seeing the depth of of the sport in a way because of all these injuries. I mean, like every single night we’re getting some new guy that just steps up and does something. I mean, we we’ve talked a lot on the show about Dennis Jenkins. Um, Naquin Tomlin, who you know is starting for the Cavs yesterday. Um, I you know what I don’t know, man. I I’m not sure that there’s a solution here for the NBA if they’re not going to come down off the 82 game number. Yeah, that’s the thing. There there is a clear solution, but they there’s no willingness by anybody to to actually change this. You know, I thought Eric Spolster had a really great quote when he was asked about it. He said like there’s no real solution to this because there’s no one’s going to reduce the amount of games that are being played and so backtobacks will continue to be played and so injuries will end up being a thing because of the amount of load that all of these players are looking at. And it’s funny you bring up this Sixers Bucks game because I’m looking at Tyrese Maxi who ended up playing 47 minutes uh scored 54 points, nine assists. He’s having a career year on all fronts and he I think maybe across the NBA there is no player that is carrying as much of a load as Maxi is to start this season. It’s incredible. It It doesn’t make sense what he’s doing. If we were making an MVP short list, like five guys, he’s on it. Throw him in there. Yeah. I mean, I think he is just with the if you look at the numbers that he’s putting up, which are are predigious. um they’re winning games and he’s far and away their most important player. I mean, he is the the usage rate is through the roof. He’s taking every big shot for them down the stretch. Um this over big shot is doing everything. Um he’s got so much Steph Curry to his game. Uh you know, he’s just at any moment you have to worry about him pulling the trigger and and you can see he’s got defenses right now just scrambling all over the place. Feel like we’re watching this guy take a serious leap. I mean, he’s he’s an allNBA guard now. Yeah. Yeah. No, and the crazy it’s funny cuz like he plays for Philly and Sixers fans will have been used to another guy who like just laid everything out on the floor who was a guard in Allen Iverson. He was one of my favorite players growing up. And Maxi has become one of my favorite players because of that. Like he just puts it all out on the floor. Um he’s relentless. And you’re you’re a Virginia guy so you obviously know Allan Iverson very well. You’re making a comp to you make the Bubba Chuck comp. And uh I don’t know, man. I got to I got to think about it a little bit. Maxi is doing it easier, I will say, cuz 100%. Yeah, Alan had to do everything the hard way. And again, we talked about this. The guys that Maxi gets to pass to just a different world, man. Yeah, I know. It’s not Eric Snow and and Aaron McKe. Yeah, I get a little bit. I get it. Yeah. Stick around, guys, after the break. Josh Robbins, he’s going to take us on a journey. [Applause] The Orlando Magic had a big win. They’ve been really figuring things out as they look like a different team than they did to start the season. And the man, the myth, the legend, Josh Robbins, was in Orlando to see the Orlando Magic just blow out the Clippers. Um, not much of a game for you last night, Josh. But, uh, how about the Magic? Uh, five of six, won the last couple without Paulo. Looking pretty good lately. Yes, I think it’s fair to say that they’re starting to figure at least a few things out. They’re starting to figure out how to play with this pace off of misses and when not to run. They still have a ways to go with that. The real question is, can they continue to play like this when Paulo comes back? And I’m not saying it because he’s not talented or that he doesn’t mesh well with Fron, although I think we can get to that. Yeah. It’s that he’s a power player. Phys. That’s his game. Power. And power doesn’t necessarily mesh with pace, with speeding up the court. The guys they have out there now playing, they are better attuned, I think, to playing with pace. And I think that’s part of why they’re starting to make progress. Doesn’t mean they can’t make progress when Palo comes back, but it is something for everyone to watch. It’s going to be very important. I will say this though, it’s on the coaching staff to come up with a way to make this work cuz power and pace complement each other very well on a well-rounded basketball team. If you’ve got both, that gives you that gives you options. And so I I think that having maybe more of an audity that comes from the coaching staff would help kind of clear some of this up. The the my turn, your turn stuff that we do kind of see when Paulo is out there. That’s an interesting point. I’m trying to find a way to phrase this. power power doesn’t matter much if you can’t sprint down the court to beat the defense down the down the court, which is not he’s not slow. He’s not slow at all, but it’s a decision. One of one of the things that makes him so effective and has made him excellent in the playoffs, but look at his scoring averages, look at his field goal percentages, is that when the game slows down, he’s the ideal kind of player. He can get you a shot and he can get to the line seemingly at will, but it’s a different way to play than the way that they’ve played for the most part the last three or four games. Yeah. Just different. And they don’t have a traditional point guard. Yes. Jaylen Suggs, Anthony Black, nominally point guards. Really, some of the time they’re spot-up shooters. The real creators on this offense are a pair of six foot 10 guys, Fron and Paulo. Yeah. Just like Boston when Tatum was healthy, it was Tatum and Brown and White and Holiday. They were secondary ball handlers and spot-up shooters. So, is that going to work over the course of an 82 game season? Is it going to work in the playoffs? Questions that remain to be seen. But I think we can agree that they certainly are playing better now and they’re starting to get closer to the team that they started to envision over the summer. Yeah. Yeah. I was just looking at it. Uh over their last eight games they are the third best defense, a top 15 offense. So they are trying to figure things out on both ends of the floor. Uh and and one of the things that was interesting about their start was how when they were trying to incorporate Desmond Bane, it felt like France Vagner was getting the short end of the stick, but now obviously with one of those guys and Paulo being out of the equation, there’s a lot more opportunity for Fron to initiate everything. How does it look to from your perspective to see an offense initiated mostly by Fron versus having it kind of like egalitarian if you will beforehand? Well, that’s not unusual. It was either Fron or Paulo or sometimes Jaylen sucks. The difference now is that Desmond Bane has the ball in his hands, I think, more often, right? When Paulo was healthy and particularly starting early in the year, he was Desmond Bane was essentially a spot-up shooter who they can run off the line. Defenses devoted an an inordinate amount of attention to run him off the line and it showed. He needs the ball in his hands to be at his most effective. So, that’s a question the Magic are going to try to solve in the months ahead before they get to the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. Uh how do you keep how do you make Desmond Bane the best player he can be and yet keep Paulo in a rhythm, keep Fron in a rhythm? I don’t think that there’s an easy answer to that except that when they do get out and run, one player who can really get out and run is Desmond Bane. Mhm. Yeah. It feels like it also feels like the lineups that they’re toying with. I mean, the fact that Paulo is out is giving opportunities some to some of these other guys. Tristan Dilva has been awesome um being thrown into the starting lineup. He really spaces the floor in a major way for them. Just a guy who doesn’t necessarily consume usage, but can knock down shots, can make plays when he’s asked to. Um, what about staggering Paulo and Fron more often so that each guy has a way to kind of own a portion of the offense at certain points in time of the game? They’ve done that. They’re going to continue to do that. Yeah. And when you have Desmond Bane with one of them Mhm. that’s more firepower than they had last year when they started. Absolutely. And so that’s one of the intriguing parts of it. But yes, they do need to stagger, continue to stagger, and that’s always been in Jamal Mosley’s playbook. And I think that’s something he’ll have to do. And um he’s got some time to try to to find that balance. It It’s not so much the staggering that’s the issue. It’s right what is it like when all of your best players are on the court at the same time? What’s that ceiling? Playoff ceiling is really what this team should be thinking about. They need to win a playoff series. I mean, I’m sure that they would like to see the conference finals, especially in a down year like this. And what does it look like when your five best guys are out there? Paulo clearly is one of their two best guys. If you know, if they don’t look as good as they do without him, I that is a that’s kind of a chemistry problem, right? No, I I think it’s it’s more the fact that Fron and Paulo can be ball dominant players, but more than anything else more than anything else, they don’t have enough shooting. Yeah. Yes. 100%. But that’s that’s why Dilva is so important for them, right? He can knock. That’s exactly right. Yeah. But but okay, so you have to have Jaylen on the floor because he’s a force multiplier for them in so many intangible ways, starting with defense. So that’s Jaylen. He’s on the floor. Desmond Bane on the floor. Fron Bagner on the floor. Paulo on the floor. Wendell Carter Jr. he’s playing. Can’t can’t hide. Tristan D Silva is the six man on the court with the other five at the same time, right? So there’s just not enough shooting. As my man Steve Clifford always used to say, your shooting is your spacing. They only guard you if they believe you out to as much as they respect you. Right. Yeah. Exactly. That’s right. That’s right. And so in the starting five, now the starting five has been good. Has been good, particularly once Jaylen Suggs got his started to feel a little bit more confident with his knee, but come playoff time, you need more than two capable three-point shooters out there. Yeah. And that’s the question that they’re going to face because they’re just not there yet. Maybe down the road, Paulo Fron’s become those light lights out shooters from distance. They’re not there yet, though. And come playoff time against like a Cavs defense that has Evan Mobley and Allen on the court at once, that’s a problem. Yeah, it’s a problem. I mean, I listen, personally, I think Goa, just play Goa more. Um, some of his shooting might be theoretical. Um, and maybe, you know, yes, I might have an agenda there, but I think, you know, more go would be good for this team. Plus, his passing opens up a lot. Um, you know, which window Carter doesn’t give them the same amount of passing. So, looking Go ahead. Go ahead, Josh. Sorry. Well, may I interject and hijack the whole podcast? Absolutely. Please talk about Goa. Talk about Well, yes, I like Goa, but Mo Vagner is going to be coming back maybe around Christmas. Maybe around Christmas. And once he comes back, last year he was their best three-point shooter by percentage, 36%. Which says a lot about the team, but it also says a lot about that does say a lot about the team. Yeah. And and he can he can actually create his own shot. So when he comes back, that’s another offensive person in the mix, assuming he gets his rhythm at some point. Going to take him a while. So that’s another person to kind of think of. And um I’m sorry to tell you Dave me I I love you and everything but he’s going to take some of Goa’s minutes and understandably so. But maybe maybe that’s a trade opportunity for them. like this this feels like a team that might I know Josh we talked about this in the preseason when it comes to like can this team maybe add something else as they head into February but it it does feel like there are pieces and parts of this team that they can improve whether it be more ball handling whether it be obviously more shooting that we’ve talked about is there a world in which they maybe address that because of the expectations that they have heading into April I think they’re going to look to improve the team. Okay. The biggest misconception about the Magic over the last two two years and it’s it got out to the public and the public drew a conclusion um is that they never made calls come playoff come trade deadline time. Yeah. They never made calls that that arguably they didn’t even really talk when they got calls. That’s the perception. That’s not that’s not accurate. Yeah. That’s not accurate. Now, were they extraordinarily conservative and not do anything? Yes. Mhm. Yes. Which made the Bane trade in June such a surprise to so much of the league. Yeah. So, yes, they were making calls. They’re definitely going to do it again. Um, who can they possibly trade? Maybe Goa, right. Um, I think they would very strongly prefer to hang on to Anthony Black. Yeah. Um, for sure. Um, would they move JI? I don’t know. Um, but yes, but it’s some sort of, you know, for for a lack of better words, like that’s that type of marginal move to improve someone in the rotation, right? That’s kind of what you’re looking at here. As you always tell me, yes, there’s no such thing as a marginal move if it makes you better. I like it. I like it. I like it. Okay. When When is Paulo coming back? Um any word on on his status? No. Like so many teams in the league, everything’s a state secret, right? Yeah. There’s a reason for that. Espionage. In sports everywhere, you don’t disclose the timeline because if it put a it puts pressure on the person trying to come back. Yeah. And if there is a setback, well, then you just you just totally neutered your athletic training and medical staff. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s not fair to them. So, I get it. I’m making a joke. I’m I’m making a joke. I’m making a joke. Okay. But, um, I would guess me, Josh Robbins, I would guess I would guess that he’ll be back within the next 10 days. We’ll see. But, I don’t think they’re going to let him get back out there if he’s still feeling even a twinge of things cuz it’s the kind of thing you got to get solved and not let recur. You mean Josh? Any thoughts on the Clippers after watching them tonight? I mean, they’re they’re now 4-1. They’ve lost three in a row. They’re they’re obviously uh injured in their own right without Kawhi Leonard and Bradley Beal out for the year, but what were your thoughts watching them tonight? Yeah, that was a bad performance. That was a bad performance and that was a team that should have been relatively well rested with a couple days between games. Yeah, Harden looked really good as always against these guys. They always against the Magic, but where else? I’m just looking at the box score here. I know that’s great podcast viewing and listening. You know, where else where else is the offense? Oh, nowhere else. I mean, where else is it going to create uh Bdonovich? Yeah, it was bad. Yeah, was not affect not his not who he typically has been. CP3 um looked like he was totally out of rhythm. Something I’m I’ve almost never seen from him. And then who else do they have on that roster who was healthy tonight who could contribute in a shot creation way? No one. Yeah. And that’s why the Beal injury is such a disappointment to them. Mhm. In addition to the human factor, it’s just it’s rough. And as for their defense, well, their defense wasn’t as bad as it seems because the Magic got so many of their points off of transition, off of turnover. So, it’s not like the defense is collapsing, but Oh, it’s bad. You got to take care of the ball. That’s part of the other side of it. Yeah, but it’s not it’s not 129 points against the Magic Bad. That is true. That’s true. They got 12 It’s not It’s not 129 points in the half court. That’s more about their age, Shush, than their defense. I mean, being being old is is really starting to to show on the Clippers um quite a bit. You mentioned Chris Paul being out of rhythm, it’s cuz he’s not playing really, you know, he’s in and out. Um they’re they’re a one-trick pony. It’s James Harden. If he’s a Zubot, pick and roll, and if there’s nothing there, if the guy misses a shot, there’s nothing else there. It’s a race to the other end by the other team because they’re really missing Norman Powell in this moment. They miss Norm a lot. Yeah. And again, as I look at this score sheet, how many turnovers do they have? 21. 21. That’s the game. Yep. All right. That alone is the game. Yeah. Any uh any thoughts? Uh any final thoughts before we get out of here? Well, I’m grateful to be here and I would like to be a more frequent guest. Of course. You know, I need to get into a rhythm, too. That’s right. Josh. Josh, the Raptors are playing the Wizards tomorrow for an NBA Cup game. We we didn’t even get a chance to talk. I know you got a got a preview for that. Raptors Wizards, what do we watch out for? Raptors are just going to win this game, right? I think the odds would say that the Raptors are going to win the game. Um I mean percentage odds. I don’t mean odds from an odds maker. Uh I um if the guy It’s fascinating. We were talking about this here in the arena tonight. I’m still in the arena and it is tonight. We’re keep delaying. I I don’t mean to blow our kayf. Yeah. But the Wizards have some very interesting elements. Alex Sar is much improved. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And not only with his production, but how he’s playing is much is much different. He’s actually shot diet is completely changed, right? Shot diet’s different. Seeking out physicality is different. Keshan George who showed who already showed that he was an NBA player easily last year. Well, he’s upped his game. Yeah. So, they’re not uninteresting. Have they been good? No, they clearly have not been good. But the emergence of those two players and the play of Trey Johnson gives them hope. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They’re building some hope. They’re building some. That’s right. They they out in the lottery. They got Well, they got a Well, that’s a whole other story. They’ve done everything that they can with the tools that they have to have a future. That’s I think that’s true. But you need more than that. And they had the second pick in the SAR draft. Actually, that’s turning out to be seems like it’s turning out to be better than it was thought of six months ago. Oh, yeah. But the sixth pick in this last draft, Trey Johnson’s a good shooter, but he’s not the franchise changing person they need. They’ve got to have lottery luck. Yeah, they just do. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, if you compare uh SAR’s numbers to Evan Mobley, second season, pretty favorable, actually. Pretty close. Um if we’re just going to go number to number, right? Like no context there. Pretty close. Better shooter coming out of uh coming out of college. He’s looking good. All right, Josh Robbins, thank you so much. Appreciate you staying up late. And yes, you will be back, of course. Uh, and not just on Slam and Jam, by the way. We want you here on the daily, too. Yeah. Well, I would love that, but I also want my peeps on the Slam and Jam. I want to reconnect with them. I have a very special bond. I have a very special bond. All right. Thank you, Josh Robbins. Yeah. Yeah. Andy Kaufman and Let Letterman are Angie Dickerson and Carson. That’s It’s exactly what I was thinking. Exactly. Those are that’s where I have that kind of humor on tap if you guys just just let you cook. Let me cook. Yeah. Thank you, Josh. Thank you, Esperetti. I’m Dave Jour. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. [Music] [Music]

Dave DuFour and Es Baraheni react to the reports of LaMelo Ball being unhappy in Charlotte and how Tyrese Maxey has taken an All NBA leap. Then, Josh Robbins joins the show to discuss the Magic’s win over the Clippers and how Paolo Banchero fits when he returns from injury.

Host: Dave DuFour
With: Es Baraheni and Josh Robbins
Executive Producer: Andrew Schlecht
Audio/Video Producer: Grayson Moody

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/nba/

Full Episodes Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEuhZTLf0SW9N9etjaRh-KK7zRgKUOQ9l

Shorts Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEuhZTLf0SW8NBkdA2krD_sHQfI7Uhn4r

Timecodes:
00:00 – Intro
01:07 – LaMelo Ball wants out of Charlotte
06:51 – Everybody is hurt in the NBA
08:32 – Tyrese Maxey’s career year
10:38 – Orlando Magic figuring things out
14:05 – Balancing ball handlers
16:49 – Ceiling of Orlando’s best team
19:24 – Mo Wagner back for Christmas
20:12 – Opportunities for trades?
22:07 – ETA on Paolo’s return
23:05 – Clippers poor performance and outlook
25:46 – Raptors / Wizards preview

Thumbnail: David Jensen / Stringer via Getty Images

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