Phoenix Suns Owner Mat Ishbia Joins To Discuss Michigan State, Lawsuits, & Devin Booker

Phoenix Suns Owner Mat Ishbia Joins To Discuss Michigan State, Lawsuits, & Devin Booker

Hey, Draymond here. Black Friday game day is coming to prom with an epic day of live sports. Black Friday football is back with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3 p.m. Eastern, followed by an Emirates NBA Cup double header, Bucks, Knicks at 700 p.m. and Mavs Lakers at 10 p.m. And the whole day starts with the Capital 1 Skins game as four elite PGA golfers meet with $4 million on the line. Black Friday game day, the Capital One Skins game at 9:00 a.m. Bears Eagle NFL action at 3 p.m. and the final night of Emirates NBA group play with Bucks Knicks at 7 and Mavs Lakers at 10:00 only on Prime. Man, I’m so I’m so happy u and honored to have this guest uh who’s a brother to me. Um, Spartan Dog. I y’all know I always talk my Spartan dog [ __ ] on the podcast and y’all know how I’m repping for the Spartans. By the way, uh, my Spartans are getting it done. Our Sparts getting it done. If you, if you have not noticed, uh, line them up, we putting them down. That’s how it’s going. But these ties run deep. And I’m so honored to have this guest, my big brother, owner of the Phoenix Suns, 2000 national champion, uh CEO of United Wholesale Mortgage, uh one of the biggest donors, uh at Michigan State for our athletic program, continues to give resources so that our programs can can stay at the top. Uh one that we’re all forever grateful for, always will be. I’m honored to have this next guest as our first guest back at the Draymond Green show here at Odyssey. Uh none other the one and only Matt Ishbia. What’s going on, man? Glad to be here with you. Appreciate you. Yeah, our Spartans are doing some good stuff right now, man. It’s beautiful to see. It’s beautiful to see. As you know, uh we were just there a couple months ago for grind week and we, you know, we we we get the opportunity to spend those four or five days with the guys and watching them put their work in and watching their process come together and how that team is bonding together, how Fierce is leading that team together is so beautiful to see. Yeah, man. It’s awesome. You know, you know how coach is and getting the guys together, but just seeing what we saw a couple months ago and how they’re developing and we’re still early. you know, usually they peak later, so they’re going to keep getting better every day. It’s fun to watch coach and you said all the players fears and all these guys developing. Absolutely. Hey, so is I I I must ask you something because I I’m still a little salty about this. You know, obviously we’re going to talk a little bit about your Michigan State days, but I I want to talk about something at Michigan State. There’s obviously a lot of things at Michigan State that, you know, you you you can do and we can’t do, but there’s one thing in particular I want to talk about, and that’s in Michigan State locker room. There’s a there’s there’s a there’s a circle in the middle of the floor, and you’re allowed to step on that circle. I’m not allowed to step on that circle. Can Can you share with the people why that is? Yeah. Well, uh, obviously you’re the you’re the legend at Michigan State. you and what you’ve done there. It’s unbelievable. Obviously, I had one thing that we’ve been able to do which winning a national championship being on that team with Matine Cle and Jason Richton, Morris P, all those stars, but just great people. And so, I’m a little older than you. I’ve got that little bit of a tiny tiny thing above that. But, uh, you know, you have the right to do anything you want at Michigan State. You’re you’re you’re the Spartan dog of all dogs. Ah, man. I I it it still burns me up to this day that when I walk in that locker room, I got to walk around that circle, you know. But um and and and speaking of that though, uh just wanted to kind of go back to the roots. Why Michigan State? You know, you going back obviously um about 25 years now, almost 30 years. Why Michigan State for you, man? The opportunity, you know, if I would have not played basketball in college, Michigan State would have been the place. But being able to be around and I got a chance to be around coach Izzo and I went up there originally with my friend Antonio Gates who was an NFL Hall of Famer play in an open gym and just being around the guys and realizing that family atmosphere and you know to this day it’s still that way and so being able to I always say I had to be the hardest worker guy to be the worst player on that team and I worked hard every day just to be out there with the guys and man it changed my life forever. I’m I’m forever grateful to Michigan State is Oo just everybody there. Absolutely. Uh and and and speaking of is obviously, you know, I I have that that that honor that you have of being able to call him a friend, you know, being able to obviously he’s coached, but having a relationship with him that spans so far past uh the basketball years and being able, you know, to call him a friend. What’s it been like uh for you and and having a relationship with coach Isa as you’ve grown into your life obviously far past basketball but still understanding and and knowing the importance of that relationship. Yeah, it’s been amazing. You know, coach is the best. You know this because you you you know you look up to him like I look up to him and you know when I played for him, you know, you’re always scared he’s going to get after you and you know get and then after playing I realized like I had no value to help him with anything but he always treated me like family. Now, at the same time, I’m I’ve developed it to where I’m at differently now, but like he was always there for me in 2005, 2010, always treated me like family. He’s a special man and and you know it because you you you’ve create you know what he had already and then you taken it to a whole another level. This Michigan State Spartan family, the Spartan Dogs is different because of you, because of coach, and but he’s a he’s a special man. As he gets older and older, he’s still he’s still that guy. Absolutely. And you know, I I I I I [ __ ] love coaches, man. That that that man taught me so much about what it means to be just a standup gentleman, let alone be a pro basketball player, let alone what it means to be a Spartan, but just what it means to walk into a room, have a presence, and be a standup gentleman. and I I could never repay him for what he’s meant in my life, you know, and and you know, I know um you y’all share that relationship and you you you know, you’ve talked to him about coming out to Phoenix and being part of an organization and you know the things that he can bring, you know, what what was that those conversations like you know and having you know talking to him about man one day you know there may be an opportunity for you to come out here and help grow this culture as well cuz I I know when you were having those conversations with him, I said, you know, he said, “Man, why why do you think Ish would want me out there?” And I said, “Well, you know, coach, you build a culture.” And he said, “Y’all think I can build a culture.” Like that’s that was his response to me. But what’s, you know, well, what was those conversations like? Just talking to him about basketball, but about life and about culture. Just he’s so special with that stuff. just like you said, you know, he helped he’s developed more people off the court than he does on the court as well. And obviously, you know, so if he could ever come to Phoenix when he’s done coaching at Michigan State and say, “Hey, come out here and help me continue to build this culture, this identity that we’ve talked about that I’ve had trying to change here out here in Phoenix recently.” But, you know, he’s just an ultimate winner. But he but the word that I always coach and you know this because he cares. You know, you can’t fake caring about someone. He actually cares. He’ll check in with me. He’ll check in with you. And it’s not because of who we, you know, what we’ve done. It’s because he actually cares about us and he’ll check in with someone that’s a walk-on that’s he hasn’t talked to in six years. He’ll check in on him. He cares and and he’s special like that where no other college program is like that from my from my knowledge. No, 1,000%. I tell guys all the like that’s one of my things when I walk into the locker room I brag at guys like, “Yo, you can’t even call your college coach.” Like he don’t they don’t really talk to y’all. Like y’all don’t have that relationship. And so, you know, it’s it’s obviously something that means it means a ton to us. Yeah. Um, now, hey, you know, we in in discussing Michigan State, I obviously uh want to number one, thank you for all that you’ve done for our program, but um and but you know, also want Thank you. I I appreciate that. Done a lot. We we’re family. We take care of people that that took care of us and you you’re the leader of that to be honest with you. I I followed your lead to be clear and I’m proud of that I could do it as well. I appreciate that. You know, just all the support um that you’ve given, you know, to our our program, to our our university, you know, and helping us stay among the elites. Uh but just, you know, in speaking to one of coach’s interviews uh the other day, he spoke about the transfer portal and how he’s still building it from the ground up. Meanwhile, here we are with the number one recruiting class in the country this year, you know, and and you know, how do you look at the NIL and all the stuff that’s going on today? You got people saying that, you know, someone’s about to buy the Big 10 Conference, you know, and all of those things. Is uh where do you think obviously we know where that’s gone, you know, up until this point, but as far as like private equity and all these things coming into the NIL, what do you think about these conversations that they’re having? Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. So, first off, the college guys, you know, you know, when you were there, we couldn’t you couldn’t get anything, you know, so it was hard to make things connect, you know, getting pizza after a game and just like so, so you got to pay the players. You got to get so these guys can can live on campus. I mean, you were there, I was there. Like, I remember it so clearly. Now, with that being said, some of the stuff’s getting a little crazy. And I think pay the players, take care of them, make sure that they can live great and they can develop. Um, you know, I don’t, you know, I don’t understand how private equity is coming in and people are trying to buy sports programs and but the way I look at coach is the way he’s done it is he’s done it the good oldfashioned way. I’m going to care about you. I’m going to develop you. I’m going to make you a man. And if you want to come be part of it, come. If you don’t, some someone will always offer you more money. And I think about that even my mortgage business. I’m like, someone will always offer someone more money. If it’s only about money, then go there. But if you’re about culture, you’re about team, you’re about winning, you’re about being like developing and being an amazing human being and an amazing basketball player, Michigan State’s the place 1,000%. And I think, you know, that that answer is a perfect segue, uh, you know, for where the interview goes next. Um, and tying these things together, which that is Michigan State, that is the Phoenix Suns. I want to talk about one person in particular, uh, as we start that conversation. uh my team Cleaves, you know, who was the leader of the 2000 National Championship uh team, you know, that you were on, who, you know, who is a big brother to all of us, you know, a big guy who really showed us like, yo, this is what grinding is. This is what grabbing your brother and embracing them is. Like you know when when I look at Michigan State culture for me it’s Tom Iso Michigan State culture today obviously you know um when you think Michigan State culture the great Magic Johnson we can never say enough about the great Magic Johnson but when I say when I look at Michigan c Michigan State culture today the reason I say it it’s it is Mat Cleleas in this time is though you know we got the great Steve Smith we got the great Shawn Resper not taking anything away from those guys because they are all our Spartan brothers. But when I say Michigan coach, Michigan State culture today, what I’m referring to is Jiko left and coach had to really build the program like take the program from where it was when Jud handed it off to him and really grow an identity of what Michigan State has become today. And right at the forefront of that was recruiting a young mine Cle out of Flint, Michigan from Flint Northern High School and completely changing the identity of a program. Coming on the heels of the Fab Five where you had these guys, they’re they’re the coolest thing around. Everybody want to go and wear wear the black black socks and the long shorts. And then my team Cle say no, I’m not going to Michigan. I’m coming to Michigan State and I want to create a culture. And the reason I I’ve I brought my team up obviously now you know my team is working with the Phoenix Suns as an assistant coach. Talk about my team Cle the relationship. Uh what he’s been in your life and how you guys continue to have as strongest bond as you have 25 years after winning the national championship. Yeah. M like you said, Maten’s a big brother. Matine cares about people. He set that culture. And don’t forget like I gotta give respect to all the players that you referenced. But it’s Tomzo, it’s Matine Cleaves, and then you got to put yourself there, Draymond, because we are not where we are today without Draymond Green going to Michigan State, going to the multiple Final Fours, and being that leader, the dog, and the success you’ve had in the NBA. So, Matine didn’t have that success in the NBA. You’ve won four championships. You’re you’re a winner, and that has helped carry on that legacy, and when you go back, it makes a difference so that the young guys come in and even the younger players in the league, Jiren Jackson and Miles Brit, all these guys are part of it. But so but yes, Maten, Draymond, coaches, let me just talk about but Maten, you know, he worked at my mortgage company for the last seven years and he went through some different things after his playing career. Maten is the ultimate winner. He’s a family man, ultimate winner. He’s got my back. He would if I called Matine right now and said, “I’m here. He he’ll run across the country to help me out. He’s got my back just like I’d have his back.” And so that type of family started with the way Iso and Matine built it. And and it shows by caring because I remember this I’ll give you a quick story like when I was playing at Michigan State I remember one of my first practices Matine Clees coming off Big 10 player of the year. So I’m there his junior year. We’re we go to the final four that year. Uh three consecutive years I went to it there. And with my first year with him though first week of practice is I’m the third string point guard. I’m guarding Matine. He swings the ball through and I smack his arm so hard man. Steal the ball. Is blows the whistle. What the hell are you doing? I stop. You know, barely even knows who I am, you know? And Matine goes, “Coach, stop. Stop. They’re going to hit me in the games, too. I got to be better with the ball.” And I’m like, “Oh, man.” Cuz every other star player’s like, “Yeah, man. Get off me.” Yeah. Like that’s the culture Matine said. He’s like, “No one’s bigger than him.” Like, “No one’s bigger than the team. He cared about everybody. He didn’t care. Like, he controlled that.” And that’s just one of a thousand stories there where Matine stood up for us guys, took care of us, cared about us, held us accountable, and we would run through a wall following that man. 1,000%. And yo, I I appreciate you putting me in that in in in that category. I must say for me, it was just so important in watching, you know, number one, one of the main reasons I went to Michigan State was because I love the family atmosphere. And I think for me when I came in obviously I came in on the on on on the tail end of Travis Walton’s career you know where Travis was an incredible leader uh and in his Michigan State era and I think for me you know and watching you guys you know Matim Mo yourself uh Charlie you know Tone Smith and and watching all the guys that came like the only thing that I wanted to do was carry the torch you know like the only like when I when I looked at Michigan State like when I when I went to Michigan I probably shouldn’t have gone to Michigan State. Michigan State recruited Delvonroe the same year you know who was the same year coming in that I was coming in same position like he was a top five recruit. It really didn’t make sense for me to go to Michigan State except that I knew that that was the place for me. I knew that that was the place that I wanted to try, as we say, try to leave a footprint in the sand. You know, I knew that was the place that I wanted to to try to carry on the tradition that I wanted to, you know, take the Spartan head, put it, you know, take the Spartan helmet, put it on, and I want to run with it and be the guy to try to lead that charge, you know, and and it’s it’s it’s meant so much to me. And then, you know, to watch Gary and Denzel, you know, and Brent Forbes and Jiren Jackson and Miles Bridges to now watch them like one of the things that make me most proud when we go back to when we go back to Grind Week is like, “No, I can step to the side and watch them do their thing now.” Like, I can step to the side and watch them mingle with the recruits and tell the next recruit how, yo, this is the place for you and XYZ and this is why it makes sense. Like that’s one of the things that bring me the me the most joy, you know, and so to to be in that category, I want to say thank you to put me in that category, I want to say thank you because it was my it was only it was the only goal I had was that I wanted to take the torch and try to take it as far as I can so that I can hand it off to the next guy in a better spot than it was when when you you guys was gracious enough to hand it over to me. Yeah. And you did that times 10, right then? because the program, you know, Matine was in 2000, right? And then, you know, you’re in 2009, 20 like it’s it’s a decade later and now I think we’re in 2025 and the way you’ve when when we walk back in there, Matine, Cle, Draymond Green, but then everyone looks to you guys and and and you know, you’ve done a hell of a job of that and I’m grateful for you and I know all the other play because cuz keeping us together, it’s not that easy. It’s it’s easy to say, it’s hard to do. You’ve done a heck of a job of that and and now we got to do it going forward still. and and so no doubt absolutely you’re you’re definitely not only in that category, you’ve helped take it to another level and I’m excited about what they’re doing now and you know coaches are there because there gonna be another generation once coaches are leaves because he ain’t coaching forever and so it’s like how do we keep that family feel that no one else has been able to do but us Spartans will figure it out. One thing’s for sure, we must figure it out. And and like I always say, it got to be a Spartan because don’t if you’re not a Spartan, you just don’t understand what it mean to us. Like it has to be a Spartan. Like when you’re talking about taking this torch and carrying it and family still coming back and that bond, it has to be a Spartan because that’s the only person who’s going to carry this thing with such care the way we care about it. Absolutely. and and and that’s I I expect the plan to be that. Hey, Draymond here. Black Friday game day is coming to prom and it’ll be an epic day of live sports. Black Friday football is at the center of it all with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3 p.m. Eastern. That’s followed by the final night of Emirates NBA Cup group play and a double header starting with the Bucks and Knicks at 700 p.m. and the Mavericks and Lakers at 10 p.m. But the whole day starts with the return of the Capital One Skins game as four elite PGA golfers face off with $4 million on the line. Black Friday game day tease off with the Capital One Skins game at 9:00 a.m. Eastern before the Big Bears Eagles football game at 3 p.m. And it all culminates with a double dose Emirates NBA Cup action featuring Bucks Knicks at 7:00 p.m. and Mav Lakers at 10 p.m. only on Prime. Uh you you’ve now owned the you’ve now owned the Phoenix Suns uh for almost three years. Um, you know, I think number one, is the job of owning an NBA team what you expected? And I second part of that question would be how would you assess that you’ve done so far since taking over ownership, you know, of I mean of like we talk NBA franchise these days. It’s it’s not it’s not the same thing as owning an NBA franchise even 10 years ago, you know. Um, and so just the second part of that question being how would you assess you’ve done so far? Yeah. So it’s it’s it’s obviously I mean a dream beyond dreams to be able to be an owner of a basketball team. The way I look at it is the Phoenix community owns a team. My job is to help lead it, right? Be the leader, do the right things by the fans. I’ve had so much fun, man. Uh we’ll talk about the what I could have done better and what we could do. We could talk about that, but just the business side and being part of it. I love it because you know what? It’s so much fun to invest and do good things like we own the Mercury the women’s team as well and you know building a practice facility for them and be a leader out there and then looking at stuff and be like people don’t do the same things like even owning uh you know we we put the TV out for free for all of our all of our team like people in this the whole state like you can watch the NBA games for free where used to be like concessions probably like I I’ve loved doing like these things that it’s like why don’t you do that and so I’ve done it actually crazy enough I I got partners from the old owner that are still in there suing me for doing the right thing and investing in the team. And I I love it. I actually enjoy those lawsuits because to me it’s like doing the right thing by people, by the fans. Be the right steward. That’s my job. And so I’ve had so much fun owning the team. Um you know, craz is a little bit more publicity as you obviously know you live that world so it’s newer to me. Um but I have the best time running it, being involved with it, the women’s team, the men’s team, the business side, and just doing the right thing by the fans because I’ve I’ve been a fan my whole life. I’m like, why don’t why can’t I watch the game? I got to pay to watch the game. No, no, you don’t have to pay to watch the game. It’s free for TV. Why Why does it cost $9 for a water bottle in this arena? No, you don’t do that anymore. Like, so I made some of those changes which seem like lowhanging fruit, but had the best time doing it. And then the basketball side and the business side, the basketball side of it, you know, I didn’t come in and set an identity and a vision. Like I tried like they always think anytime you own a team like, “Oh, he’s gonna come in be a new owner syndrome and make this and like.” So I’m like, “Okay, wait a minute. I’m I’m gonna The women’s team, by the way, was the worst team in the league. So, I jumped in right away and now we went to the WNBA finals three years later. The men’s team, we were already pretty good. We were like the eight n seed when I bought the team. We were middle of the pack, but we had just come off a run two years earlier. And so, it’s like, how do we just add to the team? And so, my job was, okay, finances are not an issue. What’s going to the luxury tax? Let’s do this. But, it didn’t work. That didn’t work. And so what I could have done better is set the identity, set the vision, set the culture, and then go. And that’s kind of what we reset this summer. And you know, we’re still early in the season, but so far it’s going in the right direction. We’re going to build it the right way. I have several things that I want to say about um what you just did, but I I must go back as someone who grew up and in, you know, in in the state of Michigan uh like yourself and grew up in the market of the Detroit Pistons was our our hometown team. um and having to have cable to watch the Detroit Pistons on Fox Sports Net. um when cable wasn’t always a luxury that we have. And you’re going to say to me, the kid that’s worked extremely hard to make it to this point that struggled to watch the games on TV when when cable we couldn’t afford cable that month and that would be the bill that have to get cut off. And you’re going to say to me that your partners are suing you for making it free for the kid that had a dream of going to the NBA to watch the NBA. Is is that what you’re saying to me? Yeah, it’s crazy to hear it like that. But yes, people cuz people these are limited partners. Like I said, I didn’t bring them in there, but the way I think about those people, they think about money. All that people think about is money. And what I look at is let’s do the right thing. Money follows success. It’s not the other way around. Go do right by the kids. Go lower cons. I don’t know how it will work out, but things always work. And by the way, since I bought the team at 4 billion, it’s worth what six billion now. I mean, it’s gone up. They they could I told them instead of suing me, why don’t you just write me a letter and say, “Thank you. Your investment’s worth more, right? We’ve done right by the community and fans, but you know, like you said, you’ve grown up and you know what that’s like.” And like doing the right things like the things that you’d always say, “Why don’t owners do this? I’m going to do those things.” And sometimes they’re right, sometimes they’re wrong, but it’s with a good intentions and that’s what we believe in. And so I’m I’m proud of that. Absolutely. Absolutely. As long as the intentions are right cuz see when I first saw that you you made the gangs free. Like I love that you did that because what it said to me was we’re we’re trying to build community and and and when I saw that I was like huh that’s interesting. and and Harris, like when when I take a step back and and I look at that, well, if you grow the community, if you grow the Phoenix Suns fan base, that’s more Jersey sales that the the prices of a jersey ain’t ain’t going down. You know, those are the prices of a jersey is going up. That’s more Phoenix basketball um Phoenix Suns basketball sold. That’s more Phoenix Suns flag. So, that’s more Phoenix Suns shirt sold. um that’s bringing experiences to the to the Phoenix community and more of those things. Like if you grow the brand, then all those things follow anyway as opposed to whacking the family who scrape together money for for their family or three family or four to come to a basketball game and whacking them over the head for $9 for a hot dog and $11 for a bottle of water and $16 for a soda. and they can’t even really enjoy the game because they’re penny pitcher. The money will come anyway if you grow the brand 100%. Money follows success. And by the way, do the right thing. Like we’re we you’re you’ve done an amazing job. You’ve made a lot of money. You’ve been successful. I’ve been successful. Like it’s not about chasing dollars. It’s about doing the right thing by people and and great things happen. Like I’m a big believer of do what’s right without any expectation in return and great things always happen. And I’ve been lucky in life. I’ve been blessed. You’ve done amazing things. You worked. And so to me, it’s obvious and it’s easy, but you know what? That’s not what everyone else does. And so that’s not common in the business world. The private equity people, like that’s just but that’s not my world. I’m I’m an operator. I love being involved. I love doing right. Like I I love going up to fans, giving them gift cards, doing the right thing by fans because you know what? I was that fan a long time ago. For my birthday, it was, “Hey dad, can we get Pistons tickets to go to the game?” And that was my birthday present. We went to the Pistons game. And it’s like, you know, let’s realize that the world like we’re very blessed and let’s do right by people. And it’s one of the great privileges of being an NBA owner is I have the ability to do cool things like that. Yeah. 10,00%. And that that means a lot. You know, when you when we take a step back and we look at like yo, like because let’s just face it, like all players don’t like our owners. Like that’s just not that’s just not the not the reality, right? But when we take a step back and we look at that, like those are the things that really hit home for us because obviously the background of a lot of players are, you know, that’s kind of changing today, but a lot of guys that still in the league come from [ __ ] you know, and so when you have someone in the position that you’re in and you see that taking place, I want you to know we support you. Um, and I hope the Phoenix the greater Phoenix community support you against those owners. And by the way, if they don’t like it, sell and make your profit and and and move along, but stop trying to make us skim skim something off the top, you know, on on every year, skim a little bit off the top, shave a if you want to profit, sell it and move on. Absolutely. Thank you. I appreciate that support and and 100%. And then, by the way, those guys, not that we don’t want to talk about those those losers, and no disrespect, but screw them. Like those guys, they can sell if they want. Go ahead. like they nothing holds them back. They just like to people like to just create negative media and create stuff. But we’re gonna always do the right thing in Phoenix. I love having that power to be able to do the right thing by our fans and by our community. 1,000%. Um, you know, one thing I love when you came in and and you took over as an owner is you said, “I’m coming in. I’m going for the mentality that I know you have the the the same mentality that you have in business is the same mentality that you brought to the Phoenix Suns and you said I’m going for it as as when you came in obviously like you said it didn’t work out but I can respect I think so many teams in the NBA they they come in they they sit Pat and I always say you know one thing Joe Dumar taught me many years ago um he said Dre I just want to tell you something On a given year in the NBA, there’s three to four teams really trying to win a championship. There’s a there there’s a group of 10 to 12 teams that says they want to win a championship, but aren’t quite doing everything to win a championship. And then there’s a there there’s the rest of them, 15, 16, however the breakdown per year that isn’t even trying to win a championship at all. And you came in right away and said, “No, no, no. I’m a part of the first group. I’m a part of the three to four that’s going to swing and try to win a championship. And although the swing necessarily didn’t work out, what tone do you think that set of you of the type of owner that coming in that you are going to be moving forward as the Phoenix Sun owner? Because in in my mind, I know the tone that it set. Yeah. Well, yeah. Like you said, it didn’t work. However, the the mentality is like we’re out here trying to win. Phoenix Suns have never won a championship. the long history they had. It’s like let’s go. Let’s go try to win. Let’s go see what we can do. And you know what? It didn’t work. And maybe I could have done things differently, but you know what? No one’s going to think that Matt Hish doesn’t care. No one’s going to think that he’s not spending money and trying to win. And I think that sends a message to fans, but also you’re a player. You’re a star player. Like players know like that guy’s out there trying to win. He wants he holds himself. And by the way, it’s really easy to set no expectations and be better than that. But when you said high expectations and you miss them, you get you get [ __ ] on like, you know, people get after you. You know what I I’d pick I still pick that. I always want to try. We’re going to compete. We’re going to do things now. We’re going to build it the right way in the long but because I want to compete for a sustainable time frame, but we’re not going to go there and try to like tank in and do that. Like that’s not that’s not in my DNA. I I don’t even understand it. Yeah. No. And and I see that, you know, in a year where um Trey Kevin Durant away uh in a year where you buy out Bradley build the two second two largest contracts um on your payroll at the time yet you look up this year and you add a Dylan Brooks who, you know, I’ve had my I’ve had my differences with Dylan Brooks and but one thing for certain is Dylan Brooks is going to make a team a better team. Um no, no questions asked. regardless of how you feel about him, he’s going to make a team a better team. He’s going to raise the level of that team on a nightly basis to compete at a high level. You know, you go get a Jaylen Green where everybody said, “Oh man, like they they should be looking to move Jaylen Green right away.” You say, “No, I think this is a guy that can help this franchise in the future. I think this is a guy that we can put next to Devin Booker and continue to build.” you know, you go out and get a young Mark Williams, you know, who going to be who you’re very you, you know, going into it that this kid is going to be looking for a contract in the next year, you know, and y’all go out and get him with that understanding and say, “No, but I think this guy, you know, can help us compete.” And so it’s very clear that even in a year where was supposed to be, you know, a new head coach, first time head coach in Jordan, in a year where it was clear that it’s supposed to be a rebuild, you know, you guys are right in the thick of things in the West and competing every night, you know, and that’s and that’s a tribute to the players and the coaches and like and but that mentality like you said and you know, everyone understands like we’re we’re trying to compete every day and you know, seeing like you you raised the floor like you’re you’re a you’re a floor raiser. You’re a winner. You’re a champion. And so like how do I get people like that that care and so Dylan is definitely someone in my opinion that cares. He he might agitate the other 29 teams, but for us he’s exactly what we’re about. He’s a tough hard-nosed guy. He plays as many games as he can play. He wants to compete every game and he’s going to do what he can to help us win. and and like and like you said, don’t mention other guys, Jaylen and Mark, but even like Jordan Goodwin, you know, some other guys, Colin Gillespie, we got some guys in here that not everyone looks at like one thing I’ve learned about the NBA, and I don’t know what your thoughts are because you know better than I do, but like playing hard and caring about winning. Like, I didn’t think that those were skills, but those are skills and you need to make sure your guys have those skills, you know? It’s not just shooting. It’s not just rebounding or defense or athleticism. Playing hard and caring about winning every night. And I’m lucky to have some guys like that and a great young head coach that’s kind of bringing them all together. One thing’s for certain, be careful of the talent to guy that don’t care about those things. It don’t pan out in the end. Is what we’ve learned in this league. You know, there’s a lot of guys who got the talent and if they don’t care about those things, you don’t care about team. You don’t care about competing. You don’t care about winning, it don’t work out in the end. So, definitely not definitely not sustainable. That’s for sure. 1,000%. Uh and and speaking of the business side, uh when you were preparing to take over the team, uh were there any people, you know, when you look at other owners, um you know, like that were possible mentors to you in this space, you know, or like someone was there anyone that you sought out for advice, you know, as you went through the process of finding a team that you can purchase and then or acquire, I should say, and then also, you know, just taking over the team. Were there any one in your corner uh that you were able to talk to about these experiences? Yeah, you know, to be clear, the NBA owners have been great. Like, so meeting other NBA owners or other people that So, I’ve built some great rel, but you know, before I owned a team, he got on a call with me, gave some thoughts and advice, and he’s been a friend ever since then, and and now he owns a WNBA team. So, we’ve actually I just saw him recently. We talked about that stuff. And so, but then there’s other guys that, you know, I’ve become friendly with Mark Cuban. He’s given me some different advice and and like Mark Lazer who used to be owning the Bucks. He’s no longer there. But people have reached out and to and there’s more. There’s many more. I’ve become friends with people. And what you find is you’re like, “Okay, he’s really great at this. Let me steal some wisdom.” And this guy’s really great at something different. Let me steal some wisdom. And so I’ve built some great relationships. And you know what you learn? Just like like I’m always learning. I’m always getting better. I’m 45 years old, man. There’s never a day I I tell my mortgage people like I’m the worst CEO I am today for the rest of my life because tomorrow I’ll be better. Next week I’ll be better. Like and so I I asked so many questions. I learned from fans. I learned from owners. I learned from other business executives. And man, I’m having a great time doing it. And I know that I’m good, but I’ll be better. And I’m going to keep getting better every day. 10,000%. No, I I respect that. as as as you continue to grow uh with your organization, uh what does what does success look like for the franchise over the next 5 years? Well, you know, first off, we had to build the identity. So, there there’s business side. So, I look at the franchise in three ways, right? I think there’s business, then I think the Mercury, the women’s team, and then the men’s team. And and then I also look as an owner, like people always look at how much we winning, but when I bought the team, I said there’s four things I’m focused on. First, I’m focused on fan experience. Make it amazing. We talk about the TV stuff. Second, I’m like, how do I develop the community, do cool things? We had the women’s all-star, now I got the NBA Allar game here next year in 27. So, cool stuff, right? Like for the community, it’s their team. Third, I got to build a great culture. So, I got to we the previous regime, I had to make some different changes on the business side, really develop, we built a new headquarters. But then fourth is winning. You know, you got to win eventually, right? And so, for the next five years, I mean, without question, we want to win championships here in Phoenix. It’s going to take time and we got to build it the right way so that it’s sustainable just like you’ve done in Golden State. Like it’s amazing what you your your organization has done where you know you’ve had years where you’ve won it but you’ve also had years that you didn’t even make the playoffs and you get right back into it and you compete and you guys are right in the thick of it right now. It’s like you have a chance to win. And so putting us on a place that we have a chance to compete and win and compete in the playoffs, win championship is the job and the goal on the winning side. And that’s what we plan on doing with the women’s team, which we’ve done over the last three years. And now we plan on doing with the men’s team. And so, um, how it all shakes out. Do we win a championship in year three or year 30? I don’t know. But I’m going to own it for 40, 50 years. We are going to win championships because we’re going to do it the right way and try to have sustained success. But, you know, I’m going to keep learning. I’m going to ask you questions. You’re going to show me you you’ve got something that that I could only dream of having four rings. It’s like, how do we do that stuff, man? You you tell me what I should do. Absolutely. Well, you know, I’m here for you, you know, always, my brother. uh you know and and and speaking of the next five years um you know and oftent times in the world we live in and when I say the world we live in I mean the NBA it’s always about oh man um a player don’t a franchise player don’t have an opportunity and or or chance as they would say to win right now they should run away they should leave they should go find a situation where they can win right away and competed for a championship right away and I want to talk about a guy in particular who’s near and dear to my heart, who I know has grown uh near and dear to you over the last three years and Devin Booker. Um you know, as you guys navigated what you navigated this summer, uh you know, needing to get under the second apron because you’re not winning, making the moves that you made, uh he doubled down and said, “No, I’m signing this not not only am I not leaving, but I’m signing an extension to even make take this thing further.” Uh what’s it like having a guy like Deepbook as the face of the franchise? A guy who you look at this year, like I said, that’s supposed to be a rebuild year and he’s averaging the most points he’s averaged. You know, his assist numbers are up, but more importantly, his leadership is up, you know, and and embracing uh a a team that’s trying to create a culture. Uh what do you have to say about having a guy like that who said, “No, I’m I’m all in.” and and it the the the championship path may not be clear as it is today as it will be tomorrow, but I’m all in. What’s it like having a guy like that that special of a player, but that bought into uh your organization and and also y’all community? Yeah, it’s truly special. Booker, as you know, he’s a special guy. Obviously, an amazing basketball player. We talk about basketball and how to tour, but but amazing person. He means so much to the Arizona community, the Phoenix community, and he knows that. But on top of that, you know, when you find out who your real friends are when everyone else turns their back on you. And so when we went through some tough times, you know, it’d be easy after we a new owner comes in, we try to spend money, we try to do things and we didn’t win. It’d be easier for that franchise player to be like, “Hey man, I put my time in. I’m ready to go.” Instead, he did the reverse. He said, “Listen, I’m with you, Matt. I believe in what we’re doing. I’m all in with you. I’ll even sign an extension. Like, I want to be here with you. Let’s go do this.” He’s had my back. I’ll always have his back. It’s been special. And so very, very lucky to have him. He comes from the state of Michigan just like you and I do. So we have a little of that Midwest connection, but he’s just an all-around winner. And he’s getting better. Like you said, Matine Cleal talk about leadership. You got Dylan Brooks, you got Devin Booker, we got people. We got Jordan. Like we’re talking about getting better on and off the court as a leader, as a player, and and he’s stepped up. You know, we’re we’re still early in the season, but he’s done a hell of a job, and I’m very honored and lucky to have him. Yeah. No, 10,000%. And he’ll continue to do that. I always say, man, Book Book has the demeanor that you have to have in order to take it to the top, you know, and I know that throughout his career, as his career go on, he 1,000% going to do that. Uh, think about you before we get out of here before I go, you go, you and Steph have done the same thing in Golden State. Think about it. you guys have been there years, you know, and and that’s a special type of guy because, you know, you get people that offer not only to offer you more money potentially, but also tell you different things and when things go down, it’s easy to jump ship. And you stayed and that’s why your jersey be in the rafters, you’ll be a Hall of Famer just like Steph Curry is, it’s something special. And I think Booker’s following that same path, which uh I’m proud to be part of. No, 10,000%. It’s a beautiful path to be on. I’m I’m so honored, you know, to be on that path. You know, you look at our team in 2020 where, you know, KD left, Klay goes down um with an with an ACL injury and then an Achilles injury. Steph breaks his hand and, you know, I’m coming up on a contract year. I’m not going in free a not leaving. I’m going to sign this extension and we’re going to figure this thing out again, you know. And and that’s what we were able to do and win in 2022. And now, you know, last year or so hasn’t been that great. we going to figure like the figure this thing out again and and and it’s special, you know, and where I can relate the book is and having a great ownership group to do that with, you know, an ownership group that understands, hey, man, it takes a little time and and we’re still rocking and we still believe and we still going to go sign a Jimmy Butler and swing for the fences to give you guys another chance to win. Like so I I I I relate to Deepbook in that, you know, and that’s somebody that you want to go to war with because you feel that appreciation. So I applaud you on, you know, making him feel that way and providing that support for him to go out and do that on a nightly basis. Yeah, I appreciate that. We’re relying 100% on that. Absolutely. And just lastly before we get out of here, uh I must talk about the business side. you know, you’ve built UWM uh for those that don’t know, UWM, United Wholesale Mortgage into the number one mortgage lender uh in America. Uh what’s one leadership philosophy that you have that feels unique to you and might even be a a a bit of a controversial take in a sense? Controversial take. So, first off, I’d say the the word I always use about leadership that differentiate I learned it from is you know it is the word care. I care about people in a different way. It’s not about when like the controversial take might be the hey go do right by people. It’s not about ROI. Like I hate the words ROI. A lot of business leaders was the return on investment. And like my whole business thing from a leadership perspective is go do right by your people. Go do right by your clients. Go win and money will follow. Success is always money follows success, not the other way around where so that’s maybe controversial. The other thing I would say that maybe I I think of things differently is like listen, I was not born to be a mortgage guy. I don’t know anything about mortgage when I grew up. Like I didn’t even know what a mortgage was. But I’m willing to put the work in. And so like to be successful in anything in life, you got to will grind harder than everyone. Like I used to be in the office 4 am suit and tie every single day 15 16 years and we were nobody. I had no money. We were nobody. Eventually we became something. And so I think it’s care and outwork everybody and think a little differently. You don’t have to always do things like everybody else. Like just same with the NBA owners. I’m doing like every other NBA owner. And you know I stubbed my toe. It didn’t work perfectly on the basketball side. the business side, we’re doing good things, but like I’m not doing things like everybody else. I believe in my instincts. I trust my gut and just you just got to outwork everyone at some point. Some point it’s like I do stuff that other people are unwilling to do. And that’s been my big part of my business career. It’s been helpful. And I still do it. I’m still at the office 15 hours, 14 hours a day, every day grinding like everybody else. Were were there some rules um that or you know philosophies but in particular rules I would say uh that you took from your playing days and said I want these to be a part of uh what I have in my business. So honestly so many I mean and I know I don’t think you’ve been to my office here in Michigan but when you if you ever come back like if you walk through you be like oh we got teams we got huddles we got like it’s Michigan State basketball reincarnated here at UWM come take a 12 person mortgage company to 9,000 be the number one in the world number one in the country whatever you want to say it it’s it’s Tomo it’s Michigan State it’s the stuff that you know it’s a spartan dog stuff show up early stay late care more and so I mean I wrote a book about it actually years back about like all the things I learned from Tom Iso and apply it to business and now I’m trying to apply it back to basketball in the Phoenix Suns and Mercury World. But man, I learned I mean just like you, you’re an ultimate winner. You learn that stuff from ISO, but you also had it coming up growing up with your family and uh it’s it’s been fun. What’s a what’s a bold decision that you made in business? Obviously, not talking uh basketball business and business. What’s a bold decision that you didn’t make but yet you think changed everything and is a kind of a driver of the success today? The biggest decision I made that maybe changed everything was two well two things. One I said I think there’s a better way to do mortgages. I’m going to go all in on this. So which means go through a mortgage broker rather than go through retail. So there like two types. You go one side or the other. I went against the wind and I went the way with mortgage brokers. I believe the mortgage brokers that was different. That’s a little technical for probably people that don’t know mortgages. So the one that I would say that ties to all businesses is I go by a philosophy called overstaff by design which means I have too many people to do the jobs I need because one I care about my people having work life balance and two when the business comes I want to dominate on client service and so we’ve been overstaffed by design for years and it’s helped us where a couple years ago you you can make billions of dollars by being overstaffed and ready and prepared. So, it’s all about preparation. And that maybe goes against the the grain of what other businesses where everyone tries to stay lean and cut, cut, cut. I’ve never laid anyone off in 40 years at our business. We’ve never laid one person off at our company. Never once. Because that’s not what we believe in. We want to have more people. We want to treat them great and dominate. And it’s worked well. And, you know, I’m expecting it to continue to work going forward. That’s special. That’s special. You just talk about continuing to talk about like the care for humans. Uh so so many people in your position don’t give a [ __ ] about human beings. Like what what about this bottom line? You know, it’s coming a public company. Like what what can we do for the bottom line? I I I have the utmost respect for that. Wow. That’s incredible. I appreciate it. We take care of our people. People over profits. We take care of our people. Money always follows. Just do the right thing by clients and people. But I appreciate it, my man. And you know, we’re going to keep grinding just like you are, man. Doing good things. Absolutely. And and and lastly, uh your brother Justin uh just visited the Pope, gave him a signed White Socks jersey. Uh how’ that come about? And do you have any plans of getting the Pope a signed Phoenix Suns jersey? Yeah. You know, so my brother and I are buying the Chicago White Socks. They came out and and my brother’s going to be the lead on that. And my brother lives in Chicago, so it’s perfect. He loves baseball. He’s a like if I like basketball, he loves baseball like that. He’s he’s big on that. And the Pope happens to be a big Chicago White Sox fan. So, you know, we we we told he he went out to overseas and he told the Pope, hey, listen, when we build a new stadium, we’d love you to throw out the first pitch and I think it went really well. My brother was excited to meet the Pope. It’s an honor to do something like that. And so, um, you know, obviously the Ryan Dors run the team right now, they do great things. And, you know, in five, six, seven, eight, nine years at some point, my brother will take over with with him and I and doing some cool stuff. But, right now, it’s basketball. It’s Phoenix Suns and Mercury. And, uh, that’s the grind. I love that, man. I can’t I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show. Um, you know, and sharing all the things that you’re doing in the community. I appreciate you for for sharing even like that you’re being sued, you know, for trying to do better because it’s it’s like I said, it’s it’s such a slap in the face for us, you know, who you come into these organizations and you know what we want to do is help the community. You know, yeah, we want to win. We want to play basketball, but we come into these these organization. We come into cities that we’re not from. You know, in most cases, you know, you’re adopted by a new place and you want to do all that you can to help these these communities that these organizations live in and to know that, you know, I think it’s so important for people to see the other side of it. You know, to understand that, you know, here it is you have and, you know, so often times ownership groups catch flack for what they’re not trying to do. And here you have a majority owner who’s saying, “Hey man, we’re trying to make this TV for free. We’re trying to knock these concessions down, but I have minority owners who’s a part of my group that’s trying to sue me for doing better for you all.” You know, and I think it’s just such a a huge lesson for everyone to see. And I think it’s great um that those people should feel like scum of the earth and they should be embarrassed as such. And I hope their names are made public um you know as as this thing continue to move forward because people should know how ridiculous they are of trying to skim more money off the top you know for these families who work their asses off to come support us. So I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart as someone who’s not a part of an ownership group you know and and and yet see you know the things that you’re trying to do on that side of things. So, I want to say thank you for myself and for everyone else that you’re out there doing it for. Continue to do the great work, brother. We’ll continue to support you. And you’re right. The Phoenix Suns with with with with you running, Phoenix Suns will become champions. They can mark that one. Hey, I appreciate you, man. And thanks for all the support and love and and on the lawsuit stuff. Just so you know, like you know this in life, anyone can sue you for anything, nobody’s actually going to win anything, right? They’re going to lose just like anyone else. Like, we do the right thing by people all the time. But in general, I love you, man. I appreciate you. I’m cheering for you, except for when you play the Suns, obviously, besides that. But you’re doing great things, man. And just proud to call you a brother. And let’s keep winning together. Keep doing great things. Yes, sir. I love you, brother. I appreciate you. And I’m looking forward to seeing you soon. Sounds good, man. I’ll see you soon. Just want to thank you all again for tuning in to the Draymond Green Show. And a special thank you to my big brother, uh, Phoenix Suns owner, CEO of the number one, uh, mortgage company in America. Uh, you know, just coming on and sharing some of his stories as a player, some of his stories as an owner, some of the things that he’s learned as an owner, and then obviously the CEO of one of the top businesses in the country, uh, the number one mortgage company in America. Forever grateful. Shout out to my big brother, Matt Ishbia. Thank you. Till next time. Deuces. If you’re rocking with the Draymond Green Show, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. And while you’re there, go ahead and drop a fivestar rating and leave a review. I want to hear what you think. And it would also mean a ton to me if you share it with a friend that you think would enjoy it. Let’s keep this thing growing. The Draymond Green Show is presented by Odyssey and executive produced in conjunction with the new media. Our executive producers are Leah Reese Dennis, Danny Fryinger, and Greg Hosman. [Music]

Phoenix Suns owner and fellow Michigan State Spartan Mat Ishbia joins Draymond to talk spartan culture, winning a national championship, lessons learned from his first few years as a team owner, a sticky tv rights deal, his business philosophies and much more.

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