BULLS POSTGAME: Pelicans SWALLOW Bulls in Embarrassing Defensive Display | CHGO Bulls Podcast

BULLS POSTGAME: Pelicans SWALLOW Bulls in Embarrassing Defensive Display | CHGO Bulls Podcast

What up, Bulls Nation? We’ve got live CS Bulls postgame coming up right now. The Bulls fall to the Pelicans 143 to 130. And we thought the defensive effort against the Wizards on Saturday was rough. What did we just watch? We will try to break it down with y’all next. Yeah. Heat. What’s going on, Bulls Nation? Welcome in to CHO Bulls Postgame. Coming to you live from our studios here in West Loop, downtown Chicago. CHO Bulls Postgame is presented by Michelob Ultra at Bet 365. The delicious taste of victory. Deserve something equally superior. Cheer on your team with Michelob Ultra and download the Bet 365 app with promo code CHGO365 when you sign up. Whatever the moment, it’s never ordinary at bet 365. Hey yikes. Thanks for joining us, Bulls Nation. Hit that like button if you haven’t done it yet. While you’re hanging out in that chat, throw us a super chat tonight if you’re feeling generous and happy despite the outcome. Always appreciated. I’m Peek Bulls_p. That’s big day. Bam. BWL sports. Will the godly on the end will go and our king of the controls, the one and only Joey C. Joey, did you enjoy that? I loved how you controlled your emotions in the cold open there when you said the Bulls fall to the Pelicans as in I would have just said fall down a flight of stairs and hit every bad team branch on the way down, but you held it in. Good for you. We got an hour to go. Joey, there there might be some thoughts less composed than that cold open. I’m about to say I don’t think Joey’s tapped into the rage side of uh young Matt P. I don’t know if we’ll see it tonight. uh like a rage rage, but I don’t think you seen that that game where Matt drops 69, you know what I mean? He drops 81 on the floor like where he has to walk off the set because he’s so angry, which happened twice last year, which was phenomenal. This team has a tendency to do that to me. It does. But but so like let’s just start with the realities of what we witnessed. We talked pregame about how the Bulls were short-handed. Um, Aoro out another game, Herder out, Dalen Terry’s still out, but uh, like you know, obviously Zack Collins has yet to return. Vouch being out is is the big loss, but the Pelicans were also short-handed. Yeah, they were missing like three or four very key guys to what that team is or is at least supposed to be. So whether it’s tonight or any other night, if the Bulls are missing guys and their opponents are missing guys, I don’t want to hear like injuries as any kind of excuse. Nope. You had Josh Kitty out there. Mhm. You had Kobe White out there. You had Modis out there. You had Pat Lee, one of the two. Uh yikes. IO, to his credit, played a hell of a game. He played hard all night. But defense, defense, defense. Let’s start with this very curious decision of Billy Donovan with Vu not being able to go with still no Zack Collins opting to start Patrick Williams in a small ball lineup out of the gate uh instead of Jaylen Smith who he did turn to to start the second half. But the Bulls have already had some issues recently protecting the defensive boards. The Pelicans worked them on the glass in the first half, Dave, and that was one of many categories that led to the Bulls defense surrendering 74 first half points. So they gave up 143 total to seven off of that 150. Defense got a little better in the second. Got a little better than 69 points. Nice. Gave it up in the second half. Yeah. Um, let me start here because I said this about Nicole Vuvich when he had a terrible game and I came on here and I was mad and and angry. So, I have to do it the same way. Uh, I’m I’m a fair person. Patrick Williams is ass, bro. Ass. That do no that that was basically what I wrote in in in our uh comments about the game that just happened tonight was I I didn’t really have words for it but that’s the only word I have ass. So we saw him at the five ass. We seen him at the four ass. We seen him at the three ass. Like it’s just been bad bro. Like it’s been super bad. He had moments early on where he had his thing together and it was going. I know why Billy had him out there was for defensive purposes. He figured, “Oh man, we can run a small ball lineup.” Which in in theory sounds really it like it makes sense. Like, okay, I’m not asking Patrick to do anything but, you know, just have that size and be formidable against a guy like Derek Queen, to be formidable against a guy like Zion Williamson because I can match strength on strength with those guys right there. No, it takes, you know, sometimes some footwork to watch him p back back up and allow Zion to get running starts uh to get to the rim. He of course obviously isn’t a good rebounder. So, but we did see him grab two offensive rebounds and not grab them at the same time go and then it went out of bounds which which was really impressive. He had negative two offensive rebounds in one possession. That was crazy. That was wild stuff. So, man, just a bad game. Um I’m not I mean it’s just it wasn’t his his fault total. It’s just he he just stood out amongst the trash that was going on tonight. But everybody played really really bad, especially defensively. The Pelicans got whatever they wanted inside. Whatever they wanted. They were like spoiled kids for Christmas. They got whatever they wanted, man. Whatever they asked for. No, I want to score two points. Okay, little Zion, you can score, but I want to score a dunk, too. Okay, Dairy Queen, you can get it, too. They got whatever they wanted. It was spoiled children down there. All the rebounds. We already talked about how they were good at offensive rebounding. We saw that rear its ugly head tonight. We saw Grand Theft Alvarado just go crazy uh on the Bulls tonight and and played very very well. But there was no resistance. That’s really what it was. It was no resistance. It’s why in the second half Billy said, “Yo, I’m going to have to put something in there. Let’s go with Jaylen Smith and let’s put uh Patrick at the four and then, you know, we’ll put Mumbo with that.” And the result was still ass. So, I would assume the only one who I thought got on the plane today to to play uh for the team. He did what he could. 11 of 16 shooting, 28 points. That that was really solid. I thought Trey Jones also did his best to be out there and try to give this ch this team a chance to win. But, man, overall, it just wasn’t good enough from the opening tip. It’s like you didn’t hear BC at all. It’s like you didn’t hear anything that he had to say uh when he when he lost his mind on everyone in the Bulls and spoke his mind, I should say, on everyone for the Chicago Bulls, man. So, it’s like it didn’t even transfer or click or anything like that. And what you saw was a continuation of that game, which is why Matt and I weren’t, you know, happy about the loss because this stuff like this can occur. Doesn’t matter the record. If you’re not coming out there ready to play and not being physical and not trying to, you know, sustain that for at least half a half, you’re going to lose. And that’s what happened. Yeah. I mean, V after last game basically said, if we continue to play like this, we’re it’s going to be bad loss after bad loss. And it was pretty telling that in the very next game, you come out and lose to the New Orleans Pelicans, who had won two games up to that point. So, um, look, I mean, they got like killed in every single category that we talk about. It was, uh, offensive rebounds in favor of the Pelicans. I’m just trying to pull up the numbers here. They had, uh, 19 offensive rebounds. 19. The Bulls had four. 19 of four in the battle of offensive rebounding. They put the Pelicans to the line a grand total of 35 times. If they could make a shot, they made 24 of them. They probably wouldn’t win that game by 25. Um, they had a bunch of turnovers. The Bulls did. They had 17 turnovers. That’s too many. Five each for Josh and Kobe. Pelicans had 10 total. So, those two players alone tied the entire Pelicans team. And this is not a good Pelicans team, by the way. We talked about it pregame in terms of like their four factors. They’re pretty much in the bottom 10 of the league in every single category except for offensive rebounding and not turning the ball over. So, they do a good job there. Um, but that was pretty much it. I mean, you give up that many shots at the rim, uh, you’re just not going to win games pretty much no matter how well you play. Like, I I feel like to me, the last couple years, I’ve been very much on top of the like the gap in points from three and like how many points a game the Bulls are giving up from the three-point line. This year, it’s the rim. And the Pelicans scored 70 points at the rim today. 70. Oh, good god. Did you see Zion’s shot chart tonight? Yeah, it was a dot, but just like a really really dark dot. They they really colored in the lines. The Pelicans were 35 of 53 at the rim and drew 11 shooting fouls at the rim. Like, you’re just not going to win games when you’re giving up the rim like that. Now, you may say, “Well, Vouch wasn’t their starting center.” Like, Vu is not deterring 70 points from the Pelicans. I did find it interesting that Billy went small. My guess is that he wanted Patrick on the Zion matchup and then you were gonna try like they had uh Giddy on Queen to start which I thought was a little strange. Queen only played the first half. I don’t really know what happened there. Maybe there was an injury. I don’t I didn’t hear anything. Um but in the second half the Bulls went with Jaylen Smith. That didn’t really get any better. And yeah, I just I think that they completely just did not play their style at all. And it’s just very tough to win games even if you’re more talented. Like this is now the second game in a row where they actually have probably been the more talented team. And that’s debatable against this team in a way that it simply was not against the Wizards last game 48 hours ago. Um, but it was the exact same result. It was get down to a big hole against a team that you’re that you theoretically should be better than, give up 70 points in the half, except for this time it was 74. And then try to call your way out. And last time they were able to do it. This time they weren’t. And I I just have a gut feeling that’s going to be a lot of these games. You look at the recipe for their wins this year, that’s been it a lot of times. Mhm. And I mean it’s it’s just more ridiculous though because of who you’re losing against and what you’re saying is right. Like it’s more of this to come. But it’s just the fact of who it’s coming against. You can’t hang your hat on your opponent anymore, you know? Yeah. You can’t say, um, well, you know, man, they played some really, you know what I mean, some straight up hard teams, which they did. They absolutely played some tough teams and didn’t get work like this is the point I’m talking about. There’s some I don’t know what the disconnect is when the Bulls play those teams that they’re supposed to be, you know, dominating and beating on, but there’s a disconnect somewhere because this isn’t the first time we sat here and had this discussion about this, man. Like, they have done this multiple times uh over the course of the past couple of years where they just have not shown up for games against teams who are the hottest of trash and they just still wouldn’t put out the fire of the trash. They just, you know, got burned by it, which is wild. But they have other teams that to go against now. Now, this makes me worried about playing teams like the Pacers who don’t have the talent, but still are good at execution, you know, and doing things like that. This makes you worried about playing Orlando, who has struggled of late, but talent-wise and interior-wise, they are a better basketball team in that sense. So, even the Hornets, man, like you can’t I can’t you can’t just sit there and say, “Oh, man. Yeah, we’re going to get this one tonight. I said it on the pregame like you got to win this game tonight. You have to win this game tonight because of who it is that you’re playing. I don’t care who’s not out there. They didn’t have guys out there. Go mentioned Derek Queen didn’t play the whole second half, man. You didn’t play the second half like that. So you you got your top guy out there not playing. They had other injuries and stuff. We know the Bulls had injuries, but it feels like when the Bulls have injuries, then it’s like removing a whole piece of a brick. You know what I’m saying? like not not a part of it like oh okay well we can plug it up because you know it might crack a little bit. No it’s like taking out the whole piece and that one player was holding this whole thing together you know and that’s scary because this is the NBA sport like that there’s going to be you know situations where they’re not going to be able to play the game. A injury occurs something you know god forbid happens outside of the game where they’re not able to be there. Well you got to step up for your guys. The Bulls haven’t been whole all season. They have not been whole. So, I can’t use that excuse. You know what I mean? Like, I can’t. Zack Collins hasn’t been here. Kobe hasn’t been here. Like, guys have haven’t been whole and they still started off playing pretty well. All right. But this kind of game against these kind of teams, against the Wizards, we saw how upset y’all were up against Portland when you you saw what happened when you played the Heat. You see what’s going on. You playing the Pelicans. you you can’t have these kind of games right here. And it just feels sadly normal having these kind of games right here for the Bulls, bro. The other thing that is interesting to me is you just mentioned the Bulls haven’t been whole all season and they haven’t. Shouldn’t that theoretically be the strength of a team who is being built by an executive who preached about nine to 10 good players? It’s about depth. It’s not about one guy or two guys. We win by playing our style. Regardless of who who were the five out there to start this game, regardless of who the five are out there closing the game and who plays how many minutes, it’s about playing to our identity. That is what has been preached from the team to the media and therefore to Bulls fans. So, okay, pull pull pieces out, put pieces in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve we haven’t been whole all season. Theoretically, that shouldn’t matter. Agreed. If your if your team philosophy and your strategy is depth, nine to 10 good players instead of one or two really good players, I don’t think it’s a very good strategy because it doesn’t matter who has been in and who has been out on nights when we see the Bulls play like ass. Especially on the defensive end, and that is about personnel. Yeah, you you can hound Billy for some decisions he made tonight. Like again, I have no idea why he thought starting Pat was a good idea cuz he wasn’t starting Lee. He started Pat. He started. I mean, if we as fans know that the one strength the Pelicans have offensively is crashing the offensive boards. And you’re you’re out, V. Let’s go small, says Billy. I’m trying to wrap my head around that one. I really am. But again, it doesn’t matter which five are on the floor. If it’s supposed to be about depth, when is a team loses a team? Yeah, your team looks pretty loory right now. We got to knock out our first ad break. We’ll come back on the other side. Get to lots of y’all’s thoughts in the chat. Let us know what you’re thinking in tonight’s game. We got some super chats already coming in. I see that. We’ll get to those. Plenty more still ahead. Hit the like button while you listen to words from our friends and sponsors. It’s free. It’s free ass. You can be good. It’s a thing. It’s nice. You can be great. Oh, I love great. Yeah, great the jam. It’s awesome. Look at the mustache. My god. It’s great. But if you want to be ultra, there’s only one way to do it, and that’s with a smooth, crisp, refreshing taste of a icy co ultra. Cuz what’s it? It’s your lips. Whether it’s bottle of can throttle love, baby. I have to whisper it when I talk about it cuz I can’t believe it’s like this. Mlob Ultra. It’s amazing, y’all. Grab a Mlob Ultra. All right. It’s the official American beer sponsor of your Chicago Bulls. But Big Dave, what makes it so ultra man? Well, I would love to tell you right now, 2.6 carbs, 95 calories. 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Like everybody just got out of the way. And the Pelicans, credit to them. That’s what happens when you put pressure, you know, and constant pressure on guys. forcing them to make those decisions of are you going to get out of my way or not because I’m coming like the person that’s been IO Dumu’s philosophy on offense since he got here in the league. Yeah, I’m coming. You know what I mean? Like can you stop it? It’s up to you to stop it. And yeah, the Bulls said no, you got it. We not trying to stop none of that tonight. And just allowed them to continue to get inside. Just allow them to continue to dominate the boards. Just to continue to dominate uh points in the paint. just something we’ve been seeing kind of like all season uh so far for this team, man. And we thought these things would start to catch up at some point in time, right? But you still feel like you got enough to beat these kind of teams uh out there on the floor, man. And they they just haven’t. So, I guess that’s kind of an interesting jumping off point into our discussion about like what is this team like? Bad. I’m sorry. I mean, they’re still they’re still nine and eight. They’ve started the season better than I thought they would, right? I did not think they would start. They’ve had one of the most difficult schedules to start the year. I think that’s probably come down a little bit now having played the Wizards and the Pelicans in backtoback games. Granted, the results have been what they have, but like I think take away the emotions from watching each individual game or the last couple. I think if if you knew the Bulls were going to start nine and eight coming into this year, you’d probably be pretty happy about it. Um, but I I just like I wonder if they can sustain this rate. I mean, certainly since the nine and eight start, they’re or since the 5-0 start, they’re four and eight. That’s not very good. It is not. Um I just don’t know like what to to make of this team. And I will say this, like I don’t ever think I bought into them being a 50- win team, even when they were 5-0. And so like my expectations or what I thought they could do didn’t change that much. Like I think it definitely went up. I thought maybe like 42, 44 wins, uh maybe 45 that was coming up from 39 wins, which was my, you know, preseason prediction. And maybe they still get there. But I just I don’t think that like I guess what I’m trying to say is a 40 win team a 42- win team is going to have games where they win against the Nuggets and they’re going to have games where they lose against the Pelicans. Like that happens within 82 game season. What’s concerning to me is that they’ve kind of looked themselves at times through some of this, but like for the most part they just have not been able to like really play a full game the way that they want to. Um and I really do think it starts defensively. I mean you’re just not going to win games if you’re giving up runways to the rim. Like Billy has said this a million times, the players know this. Um obviously Aurora wasn’t there today, but even if he is, like he’s not solving that issue by himself. Yes, it’s a team effort. And that’s why like we were just kind of talking about it, you know, starting Patrick and trying to go small, trying to be switchable. I do think that’s like an interesting thing to try. I think it’s probably worth trying. And if you’re going to try something like that, you may as well do it against a team that’s two and 15. Obviously, they didn’t it didn’t work out. They get punked, but like I’m not against that experimentation. It’s just that like even when those guys are out there, to your point, Matt, like they need to continue to play that style. You can’t just like go out there and not play to that identity because they know this is what’s going to happen. And the disconnect of like, well, they know how to play. They know that they can play this way, but they can’t do it consistently. This is a discussion I’ve been having with Alex Caruso three years ago, with Demar, with Zach. Like, they’ve been doing this for years where it’s like, we know we can do it, we just haven’t done it consistently. Like, I don’t know what the answer to that is. I think if anybody did, they would have a, you know, very high paying job in the NBA somewhere. Shout out. But it’s just like the fact that you still don’t know what you can expect from them after a fivegame win streak where you where you do kind of buy into the idea that okay, maybe they’re not going to win 50 games, but at least they can play sustainable brand of basketball to this where you’re sustainably playing down to your opponent and not getting stops. I mean, the defense is just like I mean, this looks like the worst defense in the league. It really looks like a defense that could gave up 144 first half points in consecutive games to two of the three worst offenses in the league. Like full stop. End the discussion there until anything else changes. What what what do you want us to do as far as taking this team seriously when that’s what you’re doing defensively? Yeah, it’s a freaking joke. Uh, no defense, none, said Steven Bllelock in the chat with a thumbs down emoji. Thomas Banks said they called Pat the paw because he clearly lacks hands. Um, I also was wondering like, yo, I I think somebody else in the chat mentioned it too. Pat was still playing late in that game and Modis wasn’t. What’s up with that? And look, I modellis 10 points at half. Uh, second only to Josh Giddy’s 11 for the Bulls offensively. He was confidently knocking down a couple of threes. got to the basket a couple times, had himself a ferocious dunk, but we also saw him get bodied. Yeah. Bahad. So, if you’re saying, “Oh, well, like like even Modis would have been a better option as far as stopping the bleeding defensively than Pat as a small ball five or whoever else was out there.” I’m not so sure. That’s the like dude that one play in particular where we watched Sadique Bay just put him in a locker like a bully. He did. And Billy has always shown when it comes to modest and just young guys in general, if I’m not liking what I’m seeing from you out there right now, come have a seat, young, cuz you know what else that makes me think of? Hey, remember when we saw Noah Sen out there for I don’t know 12 seconds tonight? He’s like a baby deer. He played two minutes. The knees still knocking together. He bricked a three off the backboard to the side of the rim. Didn’t even hit rim. Yeah. Uh then he gets absolutely bullied and called for a foul. Taken inside on the other end. Then Bulls go back down the other way. Josh Giddy actually makes a nice little crafty layoff pass to Noah who’s on the block open for a second. And then that window closed real fast and he goes up for a layup and got stuffed. Yeah. And then we never heard from him again. Why isn’t Billy playing Noah Zen more? Maybe it’s cuz he’s not ready y’all. Maybe it’s cuz he’s 18 and a project. And we’ve been saying for a while that he is a project. Yeah. And he’s that. And you know what? No, let me let me yell back at Billy because of that because you’re right. Like everything about Modis and what you said like you know him getting bodied, you know, and those things happening. Yes. All all facts all true. In no world, no world should Patrick Williams have more minutes playing than Modis was. Agreed. I agree. No world. Agreed. That shouldn’t happen. All right. In 27 minutes, he played Tomas’s 21. Never. And even in within that 21 minutes, he’s still getting the same amount of rebounds as as Lee Quattro. And he’s still And he’s getting more blocks than Lee because he had another game where he blocks. Shout out Matt Pek. uh and his parlay. Shout out Big Dave. Uh so that stuff and you know that he’s a guy that is supposed to kind of be your a cornerstone for you and your franchise moving forward and you know going forward and things like that. You let him play in these kind of games. They have to continue to fail. I would rather watch him fail than watch Patrick fail. Like I know I’ve seen Patrick fail many a day. I know what it looks like. I would rather watch Modis do it and see if he can grow from it right now because again this is your future that we’re talking about. Pat Pat is a role guy and that’s what it feels like right now. He’s that role guy right now. So I’m not going to go with that and then say, “Okay, well Modis, I’m going to start this dude right here who can’t shoot and can’t defend and can’t rebound and can’t block shots, but I think he gives us a better chance.” No, that that no. In no world should Maze be playing less minutes than Patrick Williams, man. That I feel like Billy made a mistake on that one in my opinion. I just feel like Patrick tonight gave the Bulls a better chance to like defend Zion, frankly. Like I think that’s why he was out there. Um I’m not like sitting here and saying he did a great job or played a great game. I don’t think that was the case. But like we saw when Sadique Bay just tried to put Modis in the goal. Like Zion would just destroy him. like he’s just not physical enough. And you even saw like on that one possession where he just like he just gives up so much ground. I do think that you have to like play off of Zion in order to like try to coax him into shooting. Um but then also have the like strength and and body to be able to absorb the contact when he does drive. So I get playing off of him a little bit. But yeah, I mean Zion was just like he’s eight of 14, had 16 free throw attempts. Like he was just getting to the basket at will. Putting Modis out there is not going to stop that. And I don’t think that putting Modis in a situation where you have to do that and you’re just getting physically abused out there is going to help. Now, you could put him on a different assignment, but then you have the question of like, well, who else has you taken off the court? So, like in that instance, if he were to have started Modis instead of um Patrick in the in the second half with Jaylen Smith, is Jaylen guarding Zion and then Modis guarding Queen or Missy? Like I just it’s it was a tough match up out there. Missy then then he’s got to guard the the center and like Missy had uh 13 rebounds tonight, nine offensive. Like he was just destroying them. So I just think like it was a particularly tough matchup. I get what you’re saying. And then okay, maybe you could put him at the three then you can slide everybody down. I was playing really well. You have to have Gideon Kobe out there. So it just is a tough thing, but also without Vu and without Collins, you just don’t have the personnel to play with true bigs at the five to where you can slide him. So today just felt like a particularly tough matchup for me. And I don’t think Modus played super well either. Again, not necessarily saying he was better or worse than Patrick. I know that’s not your point, but just the idea of like where do you put this guy? And he was team worst minus 23. So if you’re telling me you can find way places to put Patrick Williams, you can find places to put my That’s what I’m saying. I think today Patrick guarding Zion needed to be the case. I hear you, but I feel any day I can find a place to put Monuellis over Patrick Williams. Like I don’t care who’s out there playing. Like I’m going to find a way to get that kind of talent on the floor and get more opportunities for him on the floor than I will for Patrick Williams. Certain things you’re going to have to take a loss on. Like you’re just gonna have to take it. Like Zion is going to do Zion stuff, man. Like he’s gonna do that. But damn, I gotta see Mis out there. like this is the dude who came out scoring and he came out cooking and he was playing very well to start. Yes, he was getting put in the goal without a doubt. He was getting worked right there. But it’s not like something was being stopped on the other end like Zion is being shut down or any of their game was being shut down because Lee was out there. That is not the case. So if that’s happening, put me the dude who is actually scoring points and give me an opportunity to win that way. Don’t just focus on this side, then fine. that’s not working. You go out there and you you score. Let’s find out if you can draw fouls cuz I know Patrick ain’t about to draw fouls on them dudes out there. He’s not going to do that. So allow Modis that opportunity, man. Like no, bro. Like no. No world should Patrick Williams be getting that time in my opinion. No. I’m sorry. Uh Joey C. Oh, I was just going to say like I mean there’s a part of this too. It’s a bit of a numbers crunch out there. You can’t hide everyone out there defensively. They’re trying. I know. I know. Right. And like unfortunately I feel like Modus is taking a bit of the brunt of this too as well because of his height, not his size, right? Like that’s what you have to do if you’re going to be a power forward in this league. And I personally have to do that. And my thing is, and I maybe tonight isn’t a healthy conversation, is I kind of question whether Modis is a four. Maybe not just right now. I don’t know if he’s a four right now. And I’m wondering what it would look like if he played with some bigger bodies out there and was asked to move laterally and use quickness instead of physicality in terms of just the defensive side of the ball. But I don’t think we necessarily have the players to make those lineups happen either. So he’s in a tough spot and he’s a young player. I kind of feel for him a little bit and I’m not taking away that he isn’t producing right now, but I do feel for him a little bit about what’s being asked of him and simply what he isn’t really capable of doing right now in his career. Yeah. And and I think for me like I just if he’s not at the four and I’m not disagreeing with that at all. Then I then put him at the three and let me see. And my thing is I shouldn’t have Patrick getting more opportunities at that. Like pat at the five and then pat at the four and then you’re like no Mus this is it. You’re only at the four and I don’t see you get the opportunity at the three. Like no bro like just give I would rather give me that opportunity more so than the other one. That’s it. That’s all I’m saying. And I I you know I agree that Modus did not have the greatest game tonight and mentioned that he got bodied too. But Dave like on a night when hey the team that scores the most points is gonna win cuz no one’s playing any defense. Mus gave you 10 quick points. Looked confident and capable offensively in his first half minutes. Yeah. You know who never looks confident and capable offensively? Patrick Williams. Ever. Ever. Not once in my life can I have said that about him. Sometimes he does things that look confident or capable offensively and he surprises the hell out of me by doing so. I’m never expecting it. Yeah. And at least when Modis was getting worked defensively tonight, he was putting an effort. I saw Pat just standing around a lot tonight. Yeah. You know, rag Modis and whichever ways you want as a young guy who’s still learning things, especially on the defensive end as a 21-year-old NBA player, he’s always out there giving effort. Yeah. He’s like he’s not getting yanked because of a lack of effort. mental mistakes or just like, “Ah, I can’t guard this guy. He’s too strong for me.” Pat just watched a bunch of guys go by him tonight. Pretended to put a body into a guy while he gave him a layup and then another and then another. I’m sick of watching that for 27 minutes. Two of nine from the field. Butt cheeks. All right, we got we got to knock out another ad break. We’ll come back and continue breaking this one down. Uh we will get to those super chats that we have on deck. Keep them coming. Hit the like button. That’s free while you listen to these words from our friends and sponsors. C Show Bulls is brought to you by Brunt Workware. Brunt’s bestselling Marin boot. Bam. Not only built for the toughest job sites, they’re completely waterproof. Whether it’s rain, mud, or standing water, your feet will stay dry. That’s important. Just ask Lieutenant Dan from Forest Gump. Brunt isn’t just about work boots. They offer a full range of high performance gear built for tough jobs. 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He said, “The worst thing to happen to Bulls fans is this team winning its first five games and a starved fan base buying into that and thinking it meant something real.” Look, we’re still not even a quarter of the way through an 82 game season. Lots left to be decided. Whole lot left. Yes. Whole lot left. But it’s so interesting how the like if the Bulls had started 0 and2 and then won five games, right? versus starting or even gone started one and one and then won five games, right? Versus starting five and0. I feel like that start really changed people’s opinions about how many how many people were calling for Billy Donovan’s head when the Bulls were five and0 and people were throwing parades down the streets. My goodness. Oh, time the flag. Like it’s honestly it should be that way. I mean you win it comes with expectations like that’s that’s how it goes. And of course, bulls like you know, you know how it like it’s either way high or it’s way low. It’s never, you know, in the middle or even killed. Come join me in the middle, right? We we’re here. But but yeah, like even but winning and being like he’s right, just starving. You know what I mean? And that’s the key word I think of that is starving. And you know, giving them a burger and they’re like this is filet minion and it because you haven’t had a burger in like four or five years. It’s been a long time since you ate. So, I can understand why people are feeling that way. Um, but yeah, there has to be a a level ground before you just hit the ground. You know what I mean? So, there there wasn’t Bulls fans, there’s no real level ground. We try to be the level ground uh for you with that. But usually there that isn’t the case and then they, you know, ends up falling flat and then you you look up and you just blame whoever’s standing there. You know, Billy Bow, you about to get this. I saw saw my man with Sunell Jr. catching straights. You know what I’m saying? In here, man. Like like everybody gets a but I agree everybody gets a piece when you lose. Every single body gets a piece when you lose. Everybody gets a piece when you won. My biggest thing goat is just the fact of what Vu told you what was going on. He told you what’s not sustainable. He told you what’s not going to work for this team for us to continue to move forward and try to win. And even without those guys, I’m saying the effort wasn’t there for them to be out there to try to win. That’s the issue for me is he told you what it’s going to take. And and you’re not good enough to not play without effort every single night. That’s the only way you’re going to be in these games, man. I don’t care who you’re playing against, Jamako, Saints, whoever. Like, you got to play with that kind of effort every single night with the talent that you have on this team. And even more so when you know you’re missing some of your talent out there on the floor, some of your key talent out there on the floor. So I that’s that’s what bugs me the most is somebody handed you the answers to the test and you still got a D minus. That that’s an issue for me, man. So yeah, that that stuff has to be better. And I don’t know how how to get that better because somebody talked, you know, about it and it still was like it looked worse. Well, I mean, I think that’s part of the problem is like it goes back to the quote Billy had about the astronauts after last game where he was like, “I want to go to the moon, but I don’t know what it takes to be an astronaut.” Like, you have to play incredibly hard to to even get to the style of play that Bulls think can win them games. And even if they get there, they’re probably a 42 43 win team. So, that means you’re losing 39 games, right? And so even if you do play to that level every single night, you’re going to lose half the time. And if you don’t play that level, you’re probably going to lose 75% of the time. And that’s what we’re seeing tonight. There’s a great quote from Ki’s article out of the game tonight from Iumu. He says, “Coach is telling us a thousand times to box out on film. We’re going to the glass, not boxing out, just standing around. Coach is telling us to get into the ball. Coach is telling us that what we have to do in order to play physical and doing it sometimes in the game, but not doing the full game.” Donovan is being completely honest with us. He’s telling us if we don’t do this, we’re not going to get these results. We keep saying the stove is hot and we keep touching the stove. Boom. It’s like this is not a Billy problem. Billy knows Billy came up with a recipe and has tried to hammer it into these guys’ brains that this is how they need to play. And to be fair, it is a it’s a lot to ask of them to play with this pace and this intensity for 48 minutes a game, especially when you’re undertalented in most of your games. Again, this was not a game where you were necessarily way less talented, but that doesn’t mean that you get to give up on your style of play because that’s still the best chance you have to win. Yeah. They just don’t do it consistently. Yeah. And I just think it’s like a a mental, emotional, physical toll that it takes on you to do that. And it’s just a really hard thing to do. And it takes like a certain level of excellence in order to do that over and over again. And that’s a hard thing to ask of anybody. And there are teams like the Cavs or the Thunder that can get away with maybe having some slippage there on on a certain night because they have MVP caliber players or defensive player of the year caliber players and their defenses are so good that it they can get around it. But the Bulls don’t have that. And so when you’re hemorrhaging points every single game, when you’re giving up layup after layup, you’re not getting to, you know, get out on the run because you’re taking the ball out from under the basket every single time. It’s just exhausting. And then when it doesn’t work, I think that can be sort of this mental break for guys where it’s like, man, they’re asking us to do all this running, all this work, all this effort, and it’s not even working. Like, why am I still doing that? And I think these losses can be really dangerous in that way because that’s to me what I would be scared about if I was the coach would be, are these guys going to give up on the style of play? Because if they do that, it’s over. Oh my god, it’s a wrap. Let me let me push you back slightly on what you just said about it being a Billy problem because I kind of think it is. Okay. Uh somewhat of a Billy problem. Not for all the reasons you’re saying. You’re right. Everything he’s telling them to do is all correct. All that is fact. But when it’s falling on deaf ears, then that’s a problem. When they aren’t doing it and reciprocating it on the floor, then that’s a problem. We know Tom Thibido is an incredible coach. All right? that dude can coach. But there will comes a time, as I tell you all the time, tips and five there because there will come a time where it will start to get tuned out and they won’t focus with it anymore or be on it anymore. That’s not and again doesn’t mean Tibs is a bad coach or telling you the wrong things or anything like that is it’s just like you know putting your head on a brick wall and constantly pounding it and Billy is too smooth looking to you know do that. You know what I’m saying to himself. So there comes a point in time where that becomes the issue where I think it is a coaching issue. Not from X’s and no standpoint. Not from you being brilliant. He’s a Hall of Fame coach, damn it. We know he’s really good at what he does. But if guys aren’t accepting it and receiving it and then putting it back out there on the floor when Iowa is telling you, coach is telling us and telling us and telling us and we’re still like, “Okay, we’re touching it again. It’s hot as hell, guys. Don’t touch it again.” Okay. And put your hand on it again. There’s something wrong. You know, at some point in time, yeah, you’re going to look at the person who’s talking. You know what I’m saying? More so than you’ll look at the people that you’re saying it to. Or is it a problem with the roster where no matter how hard they play, they’re just not good enough. Correct. And you need a lead defensive. Both can be true. You tell me all the time it brings it every night. It seems like he does asking a you they win a game and we talk about the buyin. We talk about the buyin for like the first 10 15 games of the year. Like that doesn’t just go away overnight. Like I I hear what you’re saying and I agree that buyin is a factor that you can put on the coach. I just don’t think that the issue is that these guys are not bought in. I think the issue is that even if they execute, the margin is still so small because the talent level is not what it needs to be. And you see every single night, even going against quote unquote bad teams, you have a Zion Williamson there, you have a Trey Murphy there. Like these guys are really good basketball players. And if you’re not if you’re just giving them they took 22 more shots than the Bulls tonight. Yeah. 22 more field goal attempts. Ridiculous. Like even if even if they did play really good defense. Yeah. Yeah. And they forced some misses. Like you’re just in a huge hole because if you expect to shoot 50% that’s an additional 11 points. Yeah. You’re still in you’re not you’re not good enough. And we’re in agreement 100% there. You’re not good enough and you don’t have the talent. But when you’re not doing what the coach is asking of you and he keeps telling it to you and you’re still not out there doing it and you’re losing that way, that’s that’s the point I’m making about like even if they did play that style, even if they did execute it perfectly, they’re still going to lose 50% of the game. We’re saying the same thing. Yes, I completely agree with you on that. But what we just seen these last few games is they’re not they’re not doing that. You know what I mean? They’re reverting to something that I don’t know what it is, man. So I don’t know what what needs to be done. You know what I mean? It needs to be said. Well, but But yeah, it’s just it’s simply not working. And again, it’s not that I think Billy can’t coach. He clearly can. He has a jacket that says he can. You know what I mean? Like that dude is an awesome coach, man. But there’s a sometimes there during the season. There’s a disconnect, you know what I’m saying, between him and some of the players because IO is hearing it. IO is getting it. Vu is hearing it. Vu is getting it. I think Kobe is hearing it and Kobe is getting it and these guys. But sometimes it’s feel like everybody as as a unit isn’t. I just I just think it’s like you’re playing at such a deficit if you’re this bad defensively. Like if you are they have like no defensive talent on their roster. Facts. Like they really I mean Aoro didn’t play tonight. Um he’s obviously a talented defensive player. Modis has elements of his game that are good defensively but as we talked about like he is not providing resistance. He’s not like preventing drives from happening. he’s like maybe getting some tip shots and like blocking some shots, but he’s not like resisting. And that’s where I think Patrick is pretty good because he’s so strong. Um, not saying he’s like great at every element of defense, but I do think he’s pretty good at that. Um, but they just don’t have enough defensive talent. And when you’re going up against teams that can just get to the basket and score every time, it’s like, what are you giving up two points and and you’re just like it’s like pushing the Boulder up the hill every day just to see it fall all the way back down. It’s just exhaust it’s exhausting and and that’s why I do think that the buyin could become an issue and maybe it already is, but I just I don’t know that I am there quite yet with the buyin part. Yes, sir. Uh Andrew in the chat said, “We’re seeing why the Aoro trade was a good one. His absence on defense equals 140 points.” Well, Isaac Coro’s only missed a couple of games. Yeah. And the Bulls have been giving up, you know, 124, 125 pretty regularly. I don’t know how you stop Zion. That’s That’s a tough match up for him. My goodness gracious. Okay, we have to knock out one last ad break. When we come back, a few more thoughts on the game. Uh and uh we will get to y’all super chats as well. I want to touch on Noah a little bit more too. There’s some more people in the chat talking about him and and him not playing more tonight. Hit the like button while listens. It’s free. Free Gy Show Bulls is brought to you by Four Seasons. Winter is coming. It’s almost here. Is your home’s heating up for the challenge? Maybe you have a plumbing emergency. Call Four Seasons. An electrical emergency? Call Four Seasons. Need a new hot water tank installed today? Guess what? Call Four Seasons. At Four Seasons, they guarantee same day insulation for all your heating, cooling, plumbing, electrical, and generator needs with no extra charge for nights, weekends, or holidays, which is important this time of year. Save up to $4,000 on furnaces and comfort systems with four seasons. Heating, air conditioning, plumbing, and electric. Furnaces starting at just $39 a month. furnace AC combos $57 a month. 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So, you’ll get a great deal. And on top of that, you got the raise price promise, y’all. You know, what you see is what you going to pay. That’s how it goes. So, don’t miss out on that Black Friday sales event going on all month long, all month for 10 to 30% off MSRP and four new Chevrolet models, plus no payments for 120 days. Go ahead and go to Ray Chevrolet and Fox Lake or Ray Chevrolet.com. Um, summer green taste is 1963. CS Bulls postgame rolling along on Monday night. Uh, breaking down a tough one as the Bulls fall to the Pelicans. Thank you all for hanging out in the chat. Hit the like. If you haven’t done it yet, um, Mr. Bad Guy in the chat said, “This was a game that showed how poor of a coach Billy is. He doesn’t trust his players enough to allow them to play through and learn from their mistakes.” Whatever you like. 7629 saying Peek Asen is never going to show you anything if you bench him after three possessions. Effing give the kid a run. So I don’t know if that’s also who uh Mr. Bad Guy was referring to with his or if it was more about Modis only playing 21 minutes to Pat’s 27 as we were talking about earlier. I will meet you there at Modis. Sure. Noah, he’ll drop you off. Look, I’m I’m not sitting here saying he’s a bust. Yeah, we don’t know that yet. He’s 18. But what I do know is that when Billy out of desperation team was down playing poorly uh against a you know a not so great opponent and they’re short-handed so Noah might get that call up. He did. He played for two minutes. Brick that didn’t even get rim. Cooked. Cooked. You think Billy Donovan has the patience when he is trying to win games to let that play out a few more possessions longer, several minutes longer? Look, and I I sat on this very set last season at times got frustrated with Billy for giving Modis quick yanks when I thought that he was playing well, maybe made one or or two mistakes and said, “Ah, want to play through it, watch Modis play through it.” I also last season was thinking it was in this team’s best interest to lose games, which it was still. That that fact hasn’t changed. Um, but now it’s like this year the reality is reality and Billy’s out there trying to win games every every night. Every night. Uh, and they got out to that great start and like, okay, well, hey, this team might be real. An 18-year-old rookie who has a stretch of possessions back and forth that go that poorly. You you can be mad at Billy for giving him uh that quick of a benching, but I I am not surprised by it. I don’t think anybody should be surprised by it. No, you watched the minutes parenthesis seconds that Noah played out there, right? Because they were bad. They were real bad. I I think like there is a balance with player development of like you want to get the guy minutes, right? You need him to play in order to get the experience to learn how to be effective in the minutes that you’re getting them. And if they know they’re coming out of the game after one mistake, then it’s really tough. You’re playing tentatively. You’re playing to try not to make mistakes as a play as as opposed to playing with aggression and trying to like get into the game. It’s just hard to do that. But at the same point, you kind of have to protect these guys, too. Like you can’t just like put them out there and throw them to the Lions and like expect them to necessarily thrive. Now, maybe if it’s like the game’s a blowout and you know, you’re throwing in the subs at the end of the game and they can kind of run around and it’s not really like meaningful basketball, that’s one thing, but the Bulls still are trying to win and that’s a separate conver conversation. You know, Matt just alluded to it. We can discuss that if we want. Um, I also think that like a lot of times when we view the team, we’re only seeing the games. Billy is seeing this guy in practice. He’s seeing him with Windy City practice. getting reports on him from the coaching staff. Like there’s more to it than just did he survive or not in the three possessions that they gave him during this game. He’s played six NBA minutes. Like there’s more there’s more stuff from preseason, from summer league, from training camp, from practice, from Windy City practice, from Wy City games. There’s a lot more information that the team has that we don’t have to make those decisions. So, I get that. Um, but at the same point, I definitely hear the frustration about like, well, you gotta get him out there and see if he can actually play. But I just think that he’s at least right now so far away from that that he’s not going to be productive and that might just like that might hurt him. That might stunt his growth. That part. And the other interesting point uh that David in the chat just brought up, awesome name that I think is great. If they’re trying to win games, why the hell do you pick Noah and not an established scorer like Queen? Why are they playing Pew Will? Well, we already covered Pew Will, but I think the Noah versus Queen thing is a fascinating question when you’re talking about your team’s strategy, your front office’s strategy of where your team is and where it’s trying to go next. Because as somebody who did not see the Bulls as a team anywhere close to legitimate contention as we were evaluating all these various projects uh prospects and talents in the 2025 NBA draft class, Noah was on my board of like I’d be okay with it picks cuz he’s a very young player. Yeah. With maybe some high upside that we’re not going to see probably for a while. Um and I don’t think it’s in this team’s best interest to be like win now, win now, win now. Mhm. Uh unless the winning now part that you’re talking about is 41 games. Get ready for it. But like Derek Queen and I had my doubts about Queen. I was skeptical about his game translating to the NBA. Right now, out of the gate, early going rookie season, he seems to be proving me wrong in that skepticism. And if you’re talking about who was the more give you playable minutes out of the gate as a rookie, even as a skeptic of Derrick Queen, I was like, “Oh, but if you asked me between that and Noah, it’s like, oh my god, Derrick Queen all day. Yeah, he can go play in the NBA tomorrow. And look, see here, he’s proving that to be true. I was okay with no pick because he’s a project and the Bulls timeline of winning ain’t for a while, y’all. Sorry to burst your bubble if you thought it was. It’s not. But that is like if you’re trying to win, if you’re saying we want to be competitive, don’t then why did you take the project and not the guy who could give you minutes tonight when Vu ain’t playing? That’s real stuff, man. Uh, first of all, you’re not sorry to burst the bubble, sir. Come on now. Um, it’s a jam. Sometimes I wish Sometimes I wish I was wrong, Dave. I rarely rarely am. I rarely am wrong. Sometimes I wish I was. That’s fair. It’s very fair. Yeah. Um, Derek Queen, man, like he he was Will and I were looking at when we had these guys uh during pregame before the show and I and I had Derek Green second as far as who would be available that the Bulls should pick. So, of course, number one was Cedric Coward. Cedric Coward. Cedric Coward. Cedric Coward. And the other number two was Derek Queen. Um, basic basically based off of what the GOAT told me when I was talking about him cuz I was like goat I’m not completely sold on him yet. And when I was talking to go you know the comparison to Joker came up like his game just the kind of game that he played. And then that made me go back and watch more film on him and I was like oh I see it. Yeah. Give me this dude. Like cuz right now especially and my other thought was well with Vu being in his final year like he can kind of you know move into that same kind of spot and run that same kind of offense. You know what I’m saying? Offensive style that Vu is but just with a a little more thing on it. You know what I mean? Just a slight more finesse on his game. Um but yeah, I thought it would be a good pickup for him. I wasn’t mad at SN you know them making that pick right there. I remember Ricky O’Donald um really liked SN and was like no man he’s got a really high upside you know for this young man but he’s a project and I think that’s where I was at Matt when I heard the word project I heard okay don’t worry about this for the next couple years so I’m not expecting to see this super flash of him this year or maybe not even next year I’m just expecting to see growth you know what I mean so fans I get your frustration about wanting the young man to be out there but project is a project, my man. Like that’s what that is. When they tell you that’s what it is, then that’s what you’re going to get on the basketball floor is a project out there. And you’ve seen that both times he’s been in the game, it’s looked like that. So, I’m I’m willing for more patience on Noah Essen. He’s not You can’t just put him out here and immediately he’s solving problems because he’s tall. That’s not how that’s going to work. He’s got to, you know, just he’s got steps he’s got to take. He’s got processes he has to go through. So, and we’re at step one. Like, don’t think that we at step two or step one and a half. You’re at step one of the process with Noah Essen. So, him getting four minutes, him getting three minutes, however many minutes, just cherish those minutes that you’re in there and then you can try to grow from that kind of thing. But please don’t think that Billy’s going to put him in and then immediately problems are solved or he’s going to flash and show something. No, he’s going to get, as Matt said, fried and cooked and put to the side because he’s a project than a rookie. Yeah, I think in the draft I was kind of overthinking it a little bit with Queen. Um, I feel like I was more focused on the things that I I feel like he would struggle with than the impressive skills that he has and that’s something I think I want to try to avoid in my future. Like I I think you can focus on that stuff with some prospects like later on in the draft. But when you’re talking about like the high level, top level guys, and he obviously went 12th or 13th or whatever it was. Um, it’s not like he was in contention for the number one overall pick. But I think a lot of people considered him to be a top five prospect. And I feel like I should have been more thoughtful about like the upside there because I think that’s a really important thing to me in evaluating prospects is like what is their upside? Especially at the top of the draft. Like you’re trying to chase star potential. Does does he have that? And for the record, 17 games into an NBA career is way too early to dismiss that. And it’s way too early to anoint it, too. Like, we don’t know how good he’s going to be. He’s off to a good start. He’s had some great games. That’s great for him. But the team is three and 15. So, we don’t really know much about how it impacts winning about like where we’ll go. Certainly, he has some skills there. That was never what was in question. With Noah, it’s like I was high on him, too. I feel like the upside is there. Um Joel Lorenzi from the Athletic got some good quotes from Billy Donovan pregame talking about that. You can go find that on his Twitter, but um basically from what it sounds like, the Bulls thought that they wanted more upside, more potential, which I think Noah has, and then also at a position uh on the wing, long athletic guys like that who could defend and who could sort of play into their system. And so it was more of a combination of upside with fit, which is I think a good not necessarily, you know, wrong approach, I’ll say. Um we we just don’t know where Noah is going to be. Like he’s so I think he’s so far away. He’s way further away than I thought he was going to be. I was like anticipating more um readiness just because he was so productive at M. Um but like think about what they needed from the game tonight. Like they needed someone to throw in front of Zion. Noah’s like skin and bones out there. like he’s just going to get destroyed by Zion and like you can’t put him in a situation where he’s just getting tackled. That’s that’s not helpful to his growth. So like I I just don’t think that Kirk Hinrich would beg to disagree. Maybe if they’re down by 15 or 20 in like the last couple minutes you throw him out there. If there’s a moment in the game where you can like throw him on a a smaller wing to try to give you a spark because he’s athletic and he runs a floor, those are good things. But like they needed someone to guard Zion Williamson tonight. That was not the time to throw No out there. I agree. And to Billy’s credit, he saw it. Three possessions, didn’t go well. Get him out there. Let’s not like expose him to this more than you need to. It’s like, you’re bringing a six-year-old into a rated movie. It’s like they’re not ready to see it yet. Hey, hold on. My dad took me to see to see Bad Boys opening night in 1995 when I was grade. So, was I ready? No. Got thrown in the fire? Yes. Am I better off for it? You’re absolutely right. Well, then I guess I guess that analogy wasn’t very good, but I do stand on what I said. No, it was excellent, sir. He’s just different. That’s all. And I’ll say that somebody asked about Jaden Quaintance. Um, uh, I I don’t really I haven’t started scouting anybody. I know he has an ACL tear. Um, like 69, more of like a bully ball guy. He’s like kind of a combo forward center. I wouldn’t I don’t think he like necessarily fits with how the Bulls play, but I have not watched a ton of him yet. Too heavy. We’ll do plenty of draft scouting later on in the year. Um so don’t worry about that. But um I just think that like it is an interesting question of like should the Bulls have gone to Derrick Queen or Noah or really what they should have done is take the Pelicans uh the Hawks trade which would have moved them back to 23rd in the draft and also given them a lottery pick. And how much better of a situation would they be in now where yeah they don’t want to tank so they’re going to be competitive but hey maybe you can do that and then also maybe still get a top five pick too like that would have been one of those moves a rare situation which do exist where you can continue to be competitive but also build towards a feature and those are the moves that I that I really ridicule the Bulls front office for not taking Is it Is it at all possible that Asen would have still been on the board at 23 or do you think just the way that the board was I think he probably would have gone because like he was a high upside pick. Um you know the Raptors had a high grade on him. They almost took him at nine. Like I do think he would have gone but um yeah but they could have gotten like Ace Newell who I’m not super high on but like at least is playing now. Like maybe you get a young guy who like can contribute today who doesn’t have the same upside. But like the pick I think has more upside than either Noah or Queen so you get the player and that too. Like that to me that would have been the best way. Uh we now enter OT. If uh you watch on one of our various streaming platforms and want that bonus coverage, just head to allcoo.com. Appreciate you. Uh we will get to our super chats in just a second, but just want to touch on this. Liam, one of our regulars in the chat. Um saying, “When’s Chicago going to start holding Modis accountable like you hold Josh accountable? I’ll wait because Modis has been absolutely not good enough.” We touched on Modis earlier. said would have liked to see him play more minutes than Pat who also played like he was resisting. He was not providing any resistance eventually. That’s he was not providing any. We have absolutely talked about that man how he keeps getting a shoulder put in his chest. Understandable that Billy for those reasons decided to keep minute mod’s minute short tonight. So Billy held Modis accountable tonight. We here on the postgame show held Modis accountable tonight. Not sure what more you want besides that. Do you want a pat on the back for Josh Giddy? Cuz guess what? He also played dog [ __ ] defense tonight. Now that we’re in OT and I can use the words I prefer to use. Dog [ __ ] defense. One Joshua Giddy. All right. Pat on the back. There you go. The whole team played dog [ __ ] defense tonight. Yeah. I think what they want is Billy’s head on a steak. Well, clearly that I can’t provide that. We host a Bulls talk show. We don’t make those decisions. Bears Bulls for Life has thrown in some crazy comments here about Billy. One of them earlier was like he started small and then he doesn’t adjust. It’s like starting small is an adjustment and then in the second half not starting small is an adjustment off of that adjustment. So I think you just those are adjustments. Yes. You’re wrong. Uh shout out to our guy Joey on Controls who just let you all know in the chat our Black Friday sale is approaching. We do it every year this time of year. All sorts of amazing goodies including new merch drops in that CSO merch locker. The Black Friday sale starts what I think midnight on Thursday or whatever. But for UCO dieards, one of the many perks, it’s already open. Yeah. If you are a CHO die hard, you can go to that All City Network CHO merch locker right now and take advantage of the Black Friday sales. Up to 90% off on some items, 30% off sitewide. new crew necks, hoodies, t-shirts, we got pine glasses, we got hats, whatever you can think of as a Chicago sports fan. Fresh designs, awesome stuff. You can find it there and you can find it on huge savings. Uh if you are a diehard, just go and do your shopping, fill up your cart, and then when you go to check out with that Die Hard membership, you will see those Black Friday prices reflected before you hit that final purchase button. Yeah. So, take advantage. And for those of you who aren’t a diehard, it’s around the corner starting Thursday night. Uh or why not take this advantage an opportunity to become a diehard if you’ve been thinking about it for a while so that you can shop early and take advantage of that Die Hard’s only first few days of our Black Friday sale. So yeah, the easiest way is use code goat. Go use promo code goat. Get sign up right now. That $36 first year offer. It’s great. Shout out to David who who said uh talking about how fly the Drift is of C. I appreciate that. The new Drip is fire to be honest. It is shout out. I’ve always loved this uh this NX hoodie of ours. It’s one of my all-time faves. This is my favorite one. The pizza your favorite one. Okay. Oh, the pizza joint one. Great. Somebody earlier said that you had like a like a classy grunge look going or I don’t know. I saw that. Search the word grunge in our chat because classy grunge. Somebody had a great compliment for Bull’s postgame show without commentary on my saying we we didn’t even bring up some people saying about you how amazing you are. I didn’t say you guys said that. I’m just saying you are saying we could you get ogles quite often in the chat. That’s the word that I would use for that’s my point is we could have got into it but we were like no let it be. Respect the mind not just the body. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um we do have some super chats that we should acknowledge before we get out of here. So, let’s do that now. Uh, shout out Prison Mike, our pal, leading us off. Uh, good of the night winner earlier this season with a $2 super chat. That was worse than eating a gr sandwich, which is of course what Prison Mike ate in prison all the time. It was It was worse than a gr sandwich. Uh, Juan Guzman with a $2 jet. Billy D is what the Bears were with E Flu. You know what? I’m sorry. No, I just disrespectful to Jim Boy. this. Yeah, thank you. They already had that man held that title as you know the the bulls to bears metaphor and spec specifically with coaching. Bulls already had their flu. The baldheaded menace. Yes, the baldheaded menace, sir. Nuries. Yes. Don’t make me go get the nurse. Uh TJ Mayor Hall of Famer with a 199 super chat. Back where we belong in the playin tournament. Back where we belong. Tried to tell y’all. Uh Roland Triay 1508. Sorry if I botched the name. Super chat 10 bucks isn’t doing the minimum what he did last year to get on the court. Me many like his mentality. I’m done with the talk. Is this why he slid? That’s uh a big bold question to ask for a 21 year old in year two. I think he slid mostly because of the really poor play in the G-League. He got basically thrown into a point guard position which he was not really ready for. And we talked about the physicality like he was playing against huge grown men. Yeah. Uh and he got beat up, did not really handle that super well and then also shot under 30%. And so if you’re looking at a guy who’s like supposed to be a point forward who’s not really good handling the ball and didn’t shoot well. Yeah. I think that’s why he slid. But he I mean he quickly resolved any concerns I think most people had about his shooting. He’s been very solid there. Yeah, true. and the like the body, the physicality stuff like that’s going to take some time, but for sure I think he’s he’s on his way. But I think those are the reasons he slid more so than teams maybe not or some teams and the people who do their scouting and draft interviews not liking the talk that you mentioned in the super chat. If you’re referring to Modis having some bold things that he’s said Yeah. about and it’s not like Modis is out here pointing fingers after losses. If anything, he’s pointing a finger uh at himself all the time of not like look look how cool I am, look how good I am, but like I expect this of me. I need to be better, right? Which I don’t know why teams would have problems with that kind of talk. I have zero problems with that kind of talk and zero problems with holding him accountable. You know what I’m saying? Regardless of that talk or anything like that, but yeah, he’s got to be better, man. Like things have to get better for him. And if it’s not happening more so on the defensive end than the offensive end, it has to grow a little bit more then just to reach the goals that he’s saying that he’s uh trying to accomplish and get to and that we want him to actually accomplish and get to, man. But I’ll give him props on the blocks like for sure he continues to do that because that’s what I wanted him to do. But yeah, man, like he’s just letting guys go past him and then trying to block as as go would point out to me. But yeah, it has to be better. like the physicality has to be better. Like taking on that uh that brunt of that physicality when guys are putting their body and their hip into him like he’s got to, you know, have something there. Like something’s got to be there. I don’t know what it’s going to take or what it get. Maybe call Kendall Gil up. You know what I mean? He’ll talk about positions with you and your stance and everything like that, but yeah. And it has to be better on the floor because obviously it means a lot uh not just to the team, but to Billy Donovan, you know, if I can put you out there or not. You don’t want to be in a position where your coach is telling you, I can’t play you. That you never want to be in that position. That’s not a cool because that means if he did it once, he damn sure is going to do it again. So, you don’t want to be in that position, man. And I think Mus knows this stuff and he’s got to be better at it. But yeah, he’s got to be better, bro. Uh our guy MK Hoops saying the only problem with Mis is people put too much hope and expectation on him in year two and that’s not his fault. Nope, that’s my fault. Uh shit’s harder in year two. He’ll learn. Don’t ask for too much too soon. We’ve been trying to keep the expectations low, but like for all of the problems that this team has right now, zeroing in on Maselis ain’t it, is a wild take in my opinion. Yeah. Wild. I think it’s the defensive rebounding is the biggest problem over the last couple games. That’s what I’d be focused on. That’s fair. That’s a fair. The numbers back that up. Uh, also collective talent. Coach Jarrett $5 super chat. Even when short-handed, as coach Daisy King said tonight, they must come in physically and mentally ready to play. Dismal and exciting doesn’t mix. I agree. I mean, well said. The Bulls, that’s a different way of phrasing what Billy Donovan phrased the other night. Not talented enough not to play desperate every night. They did not play desperately tonight. I think that was actually like the fallacy of the Wizards and the Blazers games was that they were really close. they were really exciting, but it was not the style of play that they needed to play and that they basically started playing at halftime and you can’t do that. So, I think like these games should be in a sense less exciting because the Bulls are playing the right way from the start and therefore they’re winning by 10 or 15 and it’s not like so thrilling every time. Like that’s kind of the trade-off that you’re getting there. Yeah. Yeah, true indeed. Uh do we have one more super chat to shout out Joseph Emanuel Miller come on. Oh, good lord. Ryan Smith 1278 with a $20 super chat. Appreciate you, Ryan. Uh, saying, “Nobody on our team can guard Zion.” So, with that being said, what is AK’s extension deal again? This is ridiculous. Pat more ministr. Uh, let’s not talk about AK’s extension cuz there’s nothing I have the power to do about it. As much as that drives me crazy and prevents me from falling asleep every night, nothing to be done. To quote Samuel Beckett, uh, yeah, makes me crazy that he got an extension that I don’t think he earned. What can we do about it? Torches and pitchforks, y’all. Hey, anyone who wants to follow behind me, are we done buying into this team being a real team? We want to give it some more time. I’m cool if y’all want to give it some more time. Give us some more time. Let’s give it some more time. You want to give us some more time? Let me just say this real quick. So, the Bulls escaped with a one-point win over the Wizards. Escape. Escaped. And then they took that disgusting L to the Pelicans tonight. Your next game’s on deck. Hornets in a cup game that probably doesn’t matter because point differential they’re already out. Hornets Pacers then you got Magic who have rided the ship a bit then Hornets again uh like nope sorry that’s December that was January Magic Nets then Pacers again. So those three to start December and these two Saturday tonight Hornets Pacers. That’s a what uh five, six, seven game stretch. They are now one and one in the first of that seven. If you don’t go five and two in those seven games, man, listen. Can you can you expect me to take you seriously? Cuz I won’t. Based on the Washington and the New Orleans games, do you expect them to go five and two? Hell no. Yeah, I think that’s my that’s my thing. They could go two and five and I wouldn’t be surprised. Exactly. Like this team just has to like they can’t keep playing down to their level of their opponent. Yeah, they can’t. But then you know there is the age-old adage of like are you playing down to the level of your opponent or is that also your level? Do you share a level? Do you share a handshake level? Yeah. Maybe they just haven’t earned with the Buzz Cities and the Zards of the world. Maybe they haven’t earned the benefit of calling it that. I feel like their their 5-0 start is just doing a lot of heavy lifting right now. Yeah, it did for some for a certain amount of time. It was fun. Some of us chose not to do any heavy lifting in that 5 and0 start episode to just be joy and enjoy the game. Yeah, it was fun. Um so the Bulls now have a few days off to try and recuperate and re readjust from from that stinker tonight. So they are off tomorrow. We’ll be here live with the pod tomorrow afternoon, 4:30 central. Uncle Will’s going to join us. catch up with him, get some of his thoughts on what’s been going on so far this season. And then uh we’ll be back for a Friday, Saturday back to back with a nice little Thanksgiving holiday in between. Yes. Enjoy your food, enjoy your families and stuff. I know we’re going to talk about it again tomorrow, but I’m just saying it because Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday. So disrespectful. Always enjoy. Who says you can’t start your Thanksgiving enjoyment a little early? Not me. Get it on. Whether it be the foods, the beverages or uh or the sale going on now for CHO die hards black Friday sale baby uh read stuff all cho.com become a die hard so you can read all of it the very best of it. Um including taking advantage of the latest uh he did on trash. What about uh the thing he wrote the other day uh yesterday was that die hards only? Um today actually was it was about Vu’s commentary after last game and just like the key areas and where they’ve been coming up short there. So like the areas we talk about the offensive rebounding possession battle field goal attempt stuff. Um a lot in there from Vu and also from Billy. So good stuff. Go check it out. For die hards uh use promo code goat go a when you sign up. Following will_ly big days bow bw sports. I’m bull_pek we are cho_bulls. Shout out to our guy, King of Controls, the one and only Joey C. Tirelessly working as always. Um, hey, big shout out to Joey C and putting together those those headlines that he’s putting together. But Marty Gross, I love Marty Gross was fantastic. But it’s been so consistent. Like every game it’s been really consistent and really, really good. If you could only have one, Marty Gross or Nget about it. Oh, that was also one of my favorite. I’m going to get About It was a thinker. Yeah, Forget About It was just that was a brilliant Still Still Still striving to meet Katie’s pissed on after that Bulls pissed lost last season. That might be the alltime. I’m I’m forever climbing the mountain that one. Hard to match that. But take a page out of the Bulls book. Uh they should where I’m just trying to I’m just trying to get up to your guys’ level. That’s all I’m trying to do. Always always working hard. Always appreciate I saw Joey at the at the Bears CO Bears tailgate yesterday. I showed up for the last 90 minutes and just drank some beers. He was working his tail off the whole time. Um he got there what 5:00 a.m. he said? Like was insane. He brags 5:00 a.m. spilling secrets and setting up and it was Brag said it was one of the best. Honestly, yesterday was one of the best ones. I know this is a Bulls chat, but if anyone’s a Bears fan and everyone’s interested, we do a really great thing and it isn’t just us. We’re doing it with like five or six other tailgates that have been there for 20 25 years. So if you want to hang out with Bears fans that are as dug in as possible. We get a clear beautiful day yesterday. The barbecue was awesome. Uh Seniorita THC margaritas Michelob Ultra in the house. Little RC running around. Everyone everyone had a great time. And then Braggs ended up on top of a truck at one point during the national anthem. Yeah, sounds guy’s going to end up in jail. Joe flag. As long as he’s safe. That’s right. He’s one of a kind. We’ll get out of here with that. We appreciate you, Bulls Nation. Thanks for the super chats. Thanks for the regular chats. Thanks for the likes. Hit the like button on the way out if you haven’t done it yet. Take a deep breath. We got some few days to recuperate from this one, but we will be here tomorrow with the live pod for y’all. See you then. Have a great night. See you. Be good. Love y’all, man. Peace. Trash. really like the mayor.

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The CHGO Bulls crew break down the Chicago Bulls 143-130 loss to the New Orleans Pelicans on Monday night. The Bulls defense surrendered 74 first-half points to the lowest-scoring team in the NBA, and it didn’t really improve in the second half. Peck, Big Dave and Will Gottlieb discuss another putrid defensive performance, highlighted by Billy Donovan’s interesting choice to start Patrick Williams in place of the injured Nikola Vucevic. Plus, is it clear now that Noa Essengue is not ready for real minutes his rookie year? Big Dave awards the Goon of the Night!

0:00 START
2:00 Bulls get embarrassed
3:45 Big Dave reacts to bad Patrick Williams performance
7:55 Vuc’s words ring true
13:35 Depth being seriously tested
20:05 Who ARE the Bulls?
32:15 The shifting tide since starting 5-0
38:40 Do Bulls have a Coach Problem or Talent Problem?
49:15 Should Noa Essengue play more?
53:10 Developing players vs Winning Now
1:02:00 Superchats

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