With Key NBA Stars Injured: Who Can Stay Afloat? | The Hoop Collective

With Key NBA Stars Injured: Who Can Stay Afloat? | The Hoop Collective

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we’re doing on Tuesday afternoon Eastern time. I’m out here on the West Coast. It’s still the morning. There’s some interesting basketball that is happening tonight that uh you will know about, but we won’t. So, let’s just keep that in mind. Um guys, uh I don’t know why I did that. Joining me from New York City is Tim Bontmps. So when sleep update off the bat, folks, he’s in fresh from Omaha morning flight. He’s all discombobulated, had trouble getting set up today. I actually am well rested on this occasion. It just I just brain farted. Joining us from Dallas, Texas is B McMahon. Howdy partners. A good hair day for Wendy. Just had to get it fixed up. Took the cap off on like Bonds and got all fixed up. Fresh off the plane. Looking good. Yeah, this is this is what I look like. Uh 6:45 a.m. flight straight from LAX. This is this is this is the experience that you’re getting. No makeup today if you are a little alarmed. Um uh but uh I’m I’m I’m in better shape than about half of the Allstars from last season because um with you know this rash of injuries we’re having, you know, we just talked the other day about how the league is in such a good place. M um but I the the injury situation is just really kind of out of hand and two more injuries early in the week. Um Giannis goes down. We should have information later today. He’s having an MRI following a groin injury that he had in Cleveland on Monday night. Um seems very unlikely. It’s a short-term absence though. Well, yeah, there’s no such thing as a minor groin injury. And then we’ve got um Victor Wimbeyama out, you know, at least two weeks before um being re-evaluated with a calf injury, which we know how sensitive the those are. Guys, I’m going to read you the Allstars from last season. Okay, it’s going to go right down the list here and and we can count how many have missed or are missing significant time. Jaylen Brunson, ankle on the shelf. Donovan Mitchell has missed some games but thankfully healthy playing very well had another very good game on Monday. Jason Tatum don’t remind me Jiannis Attenakmpo groin on the shelf. Carl Anthony Towns fortunately cats still uh uh contributing although the Knicks um what eight-1 at home bunt temps 0 and4 on the road. Yep. not good in the uh in the standings. Uh Kate Cunningham dealing with an injury right now. Pistons still winning. Um they’ve won the last two without him. Jaylen Duran playing like an all-star, but you know, uh they’ve got a two-way guy playing like an all-star. Dannis Jenkins. Yes, man. They’ve won the last three without him. We’ll see if he plays tonight against the the Hawks. They try to go for 11 in a row. Last night, I should say. We’ll know by now. On the shelf. Keep counting. Darius Garland toe missed the first seven games reinjured his third game back. Tyler Herro still hasn’t played. Mhm. Absence is further extended for Miami. Had offseason foot surgery. Dame Lillard, another Achilles. Yeah, we’re up at seven. We’re still in the Eastern Conference. Okay. Trey Young, I haven’t I’m forgotten what heard. What heard again? He sprained his knee. How out weeks, months maybe. All right, Evan Mobley, thank goodness. Still healthy for the Cavs. Pascal Seakum trying like crazy to carry the Pacers who are in deep trouble. They’re one and a whole lot. Actually, you know, Tyrese Hallebertton is an all-star level player. He did not make the All-Star team last year. Has been an all-star in the past, but for this point isn’t on the All-Star team, but essentially could be included on this list. doesn’t count on my finger. Jaylen Brown thankfully doing well. Um, making news for other reasons this year. Uh, Shay Gildas Alexander scores 30 every night. Yeah. Now have to sit out a lot of fourth quarters because they beat everybody so badly, but played every game. Yeah. Uh, I saw the stat yesterday. I don’t know who to give a credit to. Um, uh, Bronny James has played more fourth quarters this year than Shay has. It’s just an unbelievable stat. Yeah. Uh, Steph Curry, uh, has been dealt with illness, but luckily no serious injury. LeBron, who was making his, um, debut is scheduled to make his debut tonight against the Jazz. I’m gonna be at the game here in LA. Uh, Kevin Durant, everything’s going good with him. Uh Joic, he’s doing awesome. Uh Jaylen Williams, we’re up to 10. Hasn’t played on the horizon, his return. He’s now missed 15 games. 17 is a key number there because of the supermax eligibility, but uh he’s he’s will be back very soon, I believe. But we’re up. Well, I would say that supermax that supermax thing is probably out the window unless he wins defensive player of the year or something. Well, he’s all NBA. Dude, first of all, you’re naming all these guys. Oh, he can make all NBA. Well, he can’t make all NBA 15 games. Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Is he Cuz he’s going to not qualify cuz he doesn’t play enough games, bro. Okay, that’s what I’m saying. If he comes back this week, he’s still going to have a chance if he plays the rest of the season. I mean, yes. If he if he plays every game the rest of the season, which I would say is unlikely. Anthony Davis, we’re up to 11. I’m out of fingers. I got to start again. I won’t put my toes up. Plus, I don’t know how to put toes down. So, we’re we’re on we’re on my third hand. Um, and so much for being questionable, McMahon. Well, I told you guys what happened. Yeah. Basically, what happened is his people cleared him. The Maz uh his people who are on the Maz payroll, but the director of the Maz Medical Group threw up the caution flag. Patrick Deont weighed in and then eventually after a few questionables said, “Hey, you’re not playing again until there is clear medical data saying there’s no risk of aggravating this or as we saw with Tyresese Hallebertton worse.” Um, and so now it’s uh they announced well I days run together they announced a couple days ago that it’s 7 to 10 days before he’ll be re-evaluated again. Anyways, we’re up to 11. Aunt Edwards thankfully back but dealt with a um dealt with a hamstring injury. James Harden is back and is not back. He’s playing through but his team is just can’t win. Honestly though, Harden is the one good thing going with the Clippers right now. If it wasn’t for him, they might be, you know, one and Yeah, I just saw Monday night. I just saw Monday night in Philly. He played, you know, he didn’t hit a lot of shots, seven for 25, but had him only reason they were in the game and nearly had a chance to win a second straight game for him and fell just short. It took a 40point hard and triple double for them to beat the Mavericks in double OT the other night. That’s the state of the Clippers, but he’s healthy. Right. Okay. Jiren Jackson Jr. offseason surgery came back. Uh the team is also struggling. John Morant also not on John Morant is out now with that’s a calf injury too, correct? Yeah, he’s out multiple weeks, at least a couple of weeks. He’s not on the he’s not on this list because he didn’t make the all-star team last year, but you know, an all-star level player. He was out. Used to be. Um, well, that’s true. Victor Wyama was mentioned earlier. Just in case you thought you were done counting McMahon Kyrie Irving 13 and Kyrie is making great progress in his recovery. I would say his return this season is very much in question for other reasons and Alpie Shenon healthy as a horse and hooping. So about 13 to 24s and and as you mentioned multiple other all former allstars um and it’s a lot of calves which you know I’m by no means a medical expert no medical degree despite eight years in college. I’m sure there’s a lot of smart people around the league and employed by teams that are studying why why so many calf strains and then obviously the concerns that come along with those. Yeah. I mean non-scientifically I mean you know what I’ve you know I’ve had this conversation with people in the league and I will tell you what they speculate can’t prove it. Don’t have a white paper on it or whatever. Um, pace of play. Yeah, pace of play is just super high. It’s way higher than it was um than it was 10, 15 years ago. And um it’s showing up. It’s showing up in those in those injuries. That’s what they believe. I you know, I I don’t know. Um but I mean, I know that when I first covered the league, a calf injury was reasonably rare. I mean, you’d see a handful in the NBA a year. Now it feels like you see a handful a week. Yeah. And you know, interestingly, one of Jaw’s big beefs with Tomasalo, the new coach, was he hated the substitution pattern. Basically, this mass substitution pattern in, out, in, out, in, out. And it’s the way to be able to play at an extremely fast pace, but not wear guys down. Jaw hated it. Other guys hated it. Doesn’t let him get in rhythm. Well, you solo kind of backed off that with Jaw after they had their little blow up and Jaw’s minutes were up over a fivegame span and then boom, he’s on the shelf. Yeah. So, um, so the I think the the one to watch as we are here is Bontemp’s the fallout for the Bucks. The Bucks being a team that desperately needs Giannis. Obviously, he’s having a spectacular season. Um they did a reasonable job to keep their head above water against the Cavs on Monday. Um they ended up losing by 12, but it was a closer game than that. Ryan Rollins, who’s been one of the good success stories in the East, had a big game. Uh Giannis went out in the second quarter of that. Um but the Bucks after a pretty promising start, they’ve lost three out of four. Um their next two games are against Philly and Detroit, two teams that are winning teams in the Eastern Conference. um that you know they are they are home but they’re going to be a challenge. Uh bonds the you know like in the Western Conference like you feel like if you have a five or six game losing streak that you’re going to be battling uphill the rest of the season. In the East there’s more of a grace but you use you you lose Giannis it’s going to be hard for them to win any games I think. And so, you know, with with the Bucks, we’re also it’s not just Giannis. It’s not just, oh, where are the Bucks in the standing? It’s this undercurrent, which is if the Bucks get to mid December or January and are not viewed as a contender, how is Giannis going to feel about it? And this is Giannis is going to potentially watch the team for a while without him to see what what what they’ve have and maybe they reel off some wins, but I think they’re in a they’re in a tough spot. Well, a couple things here. First of all, when the Bucks have Giannis on the court, they have an offensive rating of 123 and a half. That would be the best offensive rating of any team in the league. When Yiannis is off the court, he played played 414 minutes so far. Is off the court in 311 minutes. They have an offensive rating of 102.1. That would be the worst offensive rating in the league by over two points. It’s 21 points worse per 100 possessions. Overall, they are 19 points worse per 100 possessions. When Giannis doesn’t play, they are arguably the worst team in the league. When Giannis is off the court, they’re outscored by 12 points per 100 possessions. They have a horrible offense. And the problem is it’s going to be hard for them to do a lot to change that. Um there’s just they don’t have a lot of levers to go to really like they they have a team. John Horse has put a lot of guys who can hit spot-up jumpers around Giannis and it’s allowed them to have a hell of a team when Giannis is out there with the ball. But if Giannis doesn’t have the ball, you we talked about it going back to the summer. They It was slick business in a way to get Miles Turner for Dame Lillard. However, they never replace Dame Lillard. And Ryan Rollins has had been a great story and Ryan Rollins is a good player, but if Ryan Rollins has to create all of your offense, which is basically where they’re at now, it’s you’re going to be struggling. And the other thing that I think has not been talked about nearly enough is what you just said before about uh there’s a lot more grace in the east and more of a glide path. I frankly think that’s completely wrong and people are really overlooking the fact that the bottom of the west stinks bad. Like right now the bucks are at the bottom of these sir. No no but here’s it. Let me finish. Let me finish. The Bucks right now are projected by our BPI, basketball power index, to finish 10th in the East as of right now with 41 wins. They would be the eighth seed in the West with 41 wins. There are currently seven teams in the West that are projected to be over 500. The eighth seed in the West right now is the Clippers by our system with 38 wins projected. If we were talking about the eight seed in the East being projected to win 38 games, we’d be doing a laugh. We’d be having a laugh routine about how bad the East is. Yeah, but you’re you’re reinforcing the point. Just just part of the reason why there’s fewer wins is because the competitiveness of it. Like if you look at the if you look at the the East, the number seven No, that’s not Let’s not Here’s the point. The number seven team in the East right now is the Heat. The number seven team in the West is the are the Warriors. Who’s the team? That’s fine. Here’s but but dude and I would say they’re about the same. We thought obviously the the top of the West is is loaded. Yes. We thought there were going to be 11 or 12 legitimately good teams in the West. There’s not. The Mavericks stink. The Clipper stink. The Grizzlies stink. Dude, breaking news, sir. Mavericks, the Mavericks are going to be a lottery team this year. Okay. Well, if that is Okay. Well, if that is indeed the case, then that makes room for somebody. You’re glossing over the point. The point is the Jazz are in 10th place right now at 5 and eight. I know. I think the Jazz are winning too much for their own good. The top of the West is obviously far above, right? The Thunder are miles ahead of everybody. Denver and Houston are ahead of everybody else after that. Right. Point is, if you’re a team like Milwaukee and you need some time to try to sort things out with Giannis out, it’s going to be a lot harder to do that in the Eastern Conference where the Bulls are currently projected to finish with 39 wins and be the 11 seed. So, this is the Bulls that have 39 wins. I Hey, those bullies went in Denver and uh pulled one out when Joker had a monster triple double win. I mean it’s that was one of the craziest games of the last decade that a team would win the second night of a backtoback of the Utah Denver back to back after playing double overtime in the first game and made Denver rested. Maybe the Nuggets thought so too. I I mean that was that was a wild game scheduled loss the Bulls won. Let’s let’s back off the Bulls for at least temporarily 100%. But the the point the point was not a criticism of the Bulls even is that again 39 wins would get you the eighth seed in the West. Like if you’re the Bucks, there’s you’re it’s much harder actually to stay afloat in the middle of the East if you have an injury like this. That’s that’s what I’m trying to say. Like if they were in the West and Yiannis was out for a month, they’d have a better chance to salvage things. We’ve talked about how much of a disaster the Clippers are. The Clippers could still be sitting in the playin after all this. I think your point which is that there are three teams that have had that we thought were going to be contenders at least for some level of the playin um have been much worse than we thought which were the Clippers, Mavericks and uh and Grizzlies. So that’s a fair assessment that you know that that’s the case. However, I will just say that there’s a there’s a um you know, there’s a big difference between hanging on to 10th or 11th and doing what the Bucks need to do. You know, the Bucks don’t need to finish ninth. The Bucks need to finish like fifth or fourth or or or what. the middle of the East is just much more difficult and it’s going to be harder, I think, to stay in the realm of where you can look at it in a month and say, “Oh, yeah, the Bucks like the Bucks could have a bunch of losses pile up right now and be sitting there in a month and be if I don’t know how long. Let’s say he’s just out a month just for argument sake.” Oh my god, maybe not. I hope not, too. But if he is, maybe they’re five games back of all these teams. That’s hard to make up. Like even though they’re already right now around 500, they could quickly lose ground. Let me ask you this. What’s the Bucks what’s the Bucks real goal this season? I mean like keep Giannis happy. That’s right. So that’s what I’m saying. I’m saying that’s in trouble right now. Okay. And was he happy going in the summer? No. And there was a whole bunch of huffing and puffing and nobody’s house got bought. But there wasn’t that much huffing and puffing. That’s the thing. Like there was a little bit but like if he was men he was huffing and puffing he would have done it in June not August. So I don’t understand what’s going on there either. He was forgetting about meetings that he had with the billionaires. I know but that’s a passive thing like he he said that like after something else happened. He didn’t houses blown down. Giannis up until yesterday when he got hurt till Monday, I should say, was playing out of his mind and arguably might have been the MVP of the league through the first month of the season. I would say it’s been mission accomplished for the Bucks in terms of keeping him happy and playing well and being in a good place for where they’re at. Now, I don’t think the Bucks are a championship team. I don’t think there was a way for them to be a championship team. I don’t I think that’s the case even in in an Eastern conference that at the top is not very strong. However, because of the depth of the middle of the East, if he does have to miss a decent amount of time, they could quickly be in a scenario where when he comes back, they’re sitting in 10th. They’re sitting in 11th and they’re going to have to dig into the PL. Well, yes, but that I you were ignoring the initial point I was trying to make, which is that for all of the talk that the West is so great and so much better than the East. Well, it is outside No, it’s not. Outside of the top three teams, the East is much deeper. I know, but it’s more important for the Bucks to be in that top be knocking on the top three than it is more important for the Bucks to have a chance to make a run in the playoffs. If they’re sitting in seventh, it’s a better they can talk they could talk themselves into that more than if they’re sitting in 11th. Do you believe that Giannis will give them until the end of the season? I look I I don’t think you can have any conversation like this sitting right now at 1:30 in the afternoon on Tuesday when we don’t know how long Giannis is going to be out nor where the Bucks will be when he comes back. Also, honestly, I’m kind of tired about speculating on the whole Y when’s Giannis gonna act because it’s been seven years now. Listen, I get what I get what you’re saying there, McMahon. I don’t prefer it either, but if the dude changes teams, it could potentially change the whole balance of power. I understand, but like at this point, honestly, like I thought it was going to be last summer. He had every reason in the world to ask out last summer. I think there’s nobody very It’s kind of ask out. He just did it in a really under effective way. Extraordinarily difficult to make a trade in the middle of the season. I would be surprised if a trade happened for any reasons in the middle of the season. We saw with the Luca trade last year that you can’t say no to anything anymore in the league. So, I will not say no completely to it. But I’m just much more interested in the fact that a guy who was leading candidate to be MVP of the league is now out for a determined period of time and the Bucks could fall off a cliff. And he was a leading candidate. I wouldn’t say he was the leading candidate. I mean I would say I would say he probably was the leading candidate as of right now. But again we’ll have to we’ll have to wait for would you have voted for McMahon? I would have voted for Jokic with all due respect. Bontemps, your MVP expertise is asking other people their opinions. You haven’t done that. We don’t want to hear it. I just Let me just ask you this. Your points are all fine, Bontemps. Let me just ask you this. If you were one of the owners of the Bucks, how would you be sleeping about the situation? But that is I mean, I would not be happy because one of the three best players on the planet has a groin injury. I I’m not worried. I’m not It’s not about his whether he’s going to ask for a trade in two months. I think it is. I think every day I think that’s the whole thing for the season. If they get to if they get to the end of the season and Giannis is still on the team, they all have had a good year. Let me ask you this, both of you. Let me ask both of you this. When’s the last time you two guys hugged? It’s been a while. They might kind of feels like it’s time. You guys are really just I mean, uh we mentioned earlier one of the uh depressing injuries that just came up to Victor Webeyama. A week ago, the Spurs were 8-2 in second place in the West. feeling good about themselves and you know the NBA is a fragile place. Um they get walloped twice by Steph Curry. Can I just say did I see this stat right? I don’t know maybe Jackson can back me up. Know Steph I think on Friday made nine threes in that game in that terrific game. He and Victor both had over 40. Um I think I saw that that was the 47th time that Steph has had at least nine threes in a game. I I think they’re mixing up stats. I’m pretty sure the stat was it was his 47th time with over a certain number of points. Uh but I will double check that. Well, he’s had over 40 points more than 47 times. Well, but I think it was since 30. Uh which is whatever it was a ridiculous night by that right. I I got that wrong. Right. Yeah. He had he’s had 44 40point games since turning 30. That’s nuts. I can’t I thought I saw some statist I’m not sure there’s been I’ll look up on stat that can’t be right like that I had to got that wrong let’s just assume that was wrong where we just spew incorrect statistic that I yes I think you’re confusing with the the number over 30 excuse me sir what excuse me sir is also right Stephen Curry 47th career game with nine plus made threes in your face level that I get is is zero Z McMahon zero. No, no more B correction. You always say you can’t remember anything and it is basically the same stat as Steph passing Michael Jordan for most 40point games over 30. So I want to go back to what I said. 47 games over three-pointers. By the way, I will say this. I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe it either. Like it did make it through the fog of the weekend that that I wonder how many other nine three-point games there have been in NBA history. Okay. Well, Jackson has that. Well, not that totally, but second place. You might look on the chat here and see. Second place. I don’t know how to. All right. Is Dame is Dame Lillard. You want to take a guess, McMooked? Oh, now you’re looking. No, no, I haven’t hit it yet. I haven’t hit it yet. All right. Well, don’t just Okay. Lillard is second with nine three-point games. I was going to guess. Oh, with nine. So, you haven’t told me the number? No. Say 11. Good guess. Your low was 14. Okay. So, that’s a good guess. So Steph, 47 games of at least nine nine threes. Damn second all time. 14 with less than 14 as many. Yeah, 14 is damn impressive. 14 like that’s that’s a lot of unbelievable nights. Okay. Anyway, the Spurs were running great. Steph comes in for a baseball series, wallops him twice. Victor’s hurt. Dylan Harper was already hurt. Now Stefan Castle hurt. Yeah. and Castle’s a hip. I believe that’s going to be more week to week than dayto day. Well, and and Harper is week to week. So, so other than their three high lottery picks from the last few years, they’ve gotten healthy. Yeah. So, well, this is unfortunately this just backs up Bon Temps’ point about the West, unfortunately. I’m sorry to admit it. Now, their their schedule coming up is not murderers row. They’ve got the jollous grizzlies, the trailless hawks, the scrappy who are hot, the trailblazers. We didn’t mention Drew Holiday also dealing with a calf injury. Yeah. By the way, all these all all these injured allstars and also the fact that we need a whole bunch of um international guys. I say that Denny Aia, can you you know? Oh, he’s got a shot to be an all-star this year. He’s got a very strong I think he’s got a strong shot. Go ahead. Um, then to round out the month, they got a tough little uh weekend at Nuggets, at Wolves. Well, let’s just look at the next two weeks. We know Victor is going to be out. That’s where I got you. I just got you through that. Okay. Yeah. This uh this road trip they’ve got coming up where they’ve got to they finish it in Denver and at Minnesota. Well, I don’t know what they’re going to have when they get there. So, um but you know, the Spurs have to fight through it. Every team has a stretch like this. Except the Spurs, you know, the Spurs, you know, to me, if they make the top six will have done great. Oh, yeah. You can and if you can get, you know, if you can get Victor for sure into a playoff setting, that’s great. Um, and you know, I I wasn’t sure at the start of the season that they were going to be a top six team. I thought they would be a play-in team, which I think would still be a step forward. And then Victor decided he was gonna, you know, turn into, you know, half man, half Will Chamberlain, uh, going to the basket. And I was like, well, maybe not. But, um, you know, look, uh, every team is going to be dealing with this. Um, but, um, it is it is, you know, it’s an opportunity for some of these other teams. Um, that you mentioned it. you know, at the beginning of the season, you know, we scoffed a little bit at the Suns and, you know, I wouldn’t have necessarily thought that the Blazers could do it, especially with the Chanty Bilip situation happening, but those are two teams that can look in front of them, behind them, and say, you know, if we can put something together, they could they get in there. Right now, those two teams are projected to finish ninth and 10th with 37 and 36 wins, which is a full 10 less than the Spurs. So, again, like there’s real cushion now. Obviously, Victor’s out for two months, then maybe it’s a different story. But if it is actually a couple weeks, I I don’t think it’s really going to change much of the trajectory for them other than if there’s seven teams for six spots at the top. You know, if you want to avoid being in the playin, potentially seeing Oklahoma City or maybe Denver in the first round, like that’s a real thing. But, you know, I I think it would take a lot for them to not be in the same uh um the same category as these other teams that they’re fighting with, you know, to try to three of their four best players are hurt. Well, and I just watched the Blazers lose to the Mavericks, which is hard to do. So, I’m going to uh hold off on too much praise for Portland. You know what Portland’s record is as we Six and seven. Good job. Good job. Good job, McMan. There you go, McMahon. Um, what happens if the Atlantic Division leading Raptors, one of Bontemps’ preseason darlings? Oh, like make the conference finals and make the conference finals. And make the conference semifinals and uh Anthony Davis gets traded. Will he will Bonds just float down Sixth Avenue. I think there’s a chance. Why Why would I be floating down Sixth Avenue? Because you Because you called the Raptors to start the season. You said that the I wouldn’t even said they won a playoff series. Listen, if the Raptors get too hot, I’m going to show up and watch them because they are winless this season when I’m in the building. Lost by 10 in Dallas. That’s uh extremely difficult. They started the season 1 and four and I think they’re eight and one since. One win was on opening night when they beat the Hawks by a trillion. It’s been an interesting start in Atlanta if I’m not mistaken. I think it was in Atlanta. Correct. Now, they have not played the murderers row of the Eastern Conference. Um that said, they are playing against the 76ers in a game on Wednesday night. I think Bontemps might down I95 to see it. Okay. Uh Bontmps, the Raptors playing with depth. Yes. Um depth is their strategy. Um, as Boston build them, they’ve got a whole bunch of okay players and that’s certainly come to fruition. I mean, that’s a that’s a that’s a formula to be a solid team, which is what they are. Like I, you know, they’re w they’re kind of like the Suns in the East. I think they have more talent overall than the Suns. Obviously, you know, you could debate Scotty Barnes probably isn’t as good as Deon Booker, but I think they’re certainly deeper than Phoenix, but they have gone out and after that rough start have generally done what they should, which is beat a lot of teams that they should. You know, two Monday night was a good example. They messed around with Charlotte. Probably shouldn’t have been a two-point game, but they make a couple plays at the end. Scotty Barnes gets a block at the buzzer. They win by a couple. They get a win. and they’re stacking up wins and they have a bunch of guys playing pretty well. Brand’s fit in well, man is playing better. Scotty Barnes is playing well and like solid. Yeah, he’s been solid. So, if you got eight or 10 guys who are playing every night, especially when like I mean we spent the beginning of the pods 10 minutes going through all these guys that were hurt. If you can just be healthy with a a solid two deep rotation, that’s a formula to rack up a lot of wins. And you know, it certainly seems like Toronto is on pace to have that kind of a season. Though, even still, with all that, they’re still only projected to finish seventh behind Miami, behind Philly, behind some of these other teams. Now, I think it’s too early for projections. I know you’ve been saying them all the way through. I I don’t like it. Sorry. I think it’s it’s Well, I mean, that’s fine. It’s just it’s a good reminder of some of these hot starts are, you know, they’re probably either hot or cold starts are more fluky than they would seem. And I but I also think there’s a world like we’ve talked about, you know, we’re going to get into Philly’s injury situation like so I think we said this when we talked about Toronto before the season. Probably more times out of a hundred Toronto’s going to have a better record than Philly because Joel and Paul George and these other guys are not great bets to be on the court on a regular basis. But if Philly has all their guys available, their ceiling’s probably higher. And you know, well, and and Tyrus Maxi is a bonafide superstar. She had another big leap has been has been has been big. No question. She had a big game. Another big game on Monday. Yeah, the the Raptor throw it away at the end with two horrific turnovers in the final 20 seconds. What like about 30 a game? I mean, oh, he’s been he’s been awesome. Second in the league. Luca’s lead in the league in scoring. Is he second in the league in scoring? I think he got to be tough. Yeah, he’s he was right there with Giannis and Luca for just he’s been right there with them for the season. He is second in the league in scoring at 32.5 32 and a half behind right above Shay who never plays in fourth quarters. Yeah, he’s he’s he’s shooting 40 41% on nine attempts a game from three. It’s pretty good. Well, the uh Raptors are, you know, as we’re recording this, maybe some variance after Tuesday night, but the Raptors are top 10 in both offense and defense. Not a bad place to start. You know, it’s it’s 14 games, but it’s not nothing. Yeah. Here’s a prediction. If the Raptors make the playoffs, the casual NBA fan is going to become very familiar with Glorilla. Are you guys familiar with Gorilla? I am familiar with Glorilla. No, you’re not a Gloilla fan. I don’t know. Maybe I am. A uh legendary Memphis rapper. She was has frequently been seen courtside at Grizzlies games over the years. Well, she is dating Brandon Ingram. When they were in Dallas, she had the best seat in the house courtside right by where the it’s one of the seats they take out when the national TV uh table comes in. And let me tell you, she’s entertaining because she supports her man. When when Brandon scores, she’s going to let the whole arena know about it. That is kind of a little bit of an insight. So, there’s how many seats do you think at center court? um maybe six or eight seats that are that are kind of funible because um she put the fun and fungeible that night because when there’s national TV games they uh you know that’s where the uh the broadcasters go so they take those seats out so that especially Dallas some places have se have seats there all the time like at MSG they’ve always got seats on that spot whereas in Dallas they’re at the scores table so that’s that that spot’s Anyways, I’m just saying there’s I don’t I don’t I don’t know if that’s true that they would have I don’t actually don’t want I don’t want to get in I don’t want to go down that means that’s all that just a little just a little just a little insight into the NBA is that those seats that are at center court typically are controlled by the team every night because they take them away in the biggest games. So they’re they’re a hard sell. So teams will sell them individually and that does happen a lot but also when you get a a big celebrity like Glorilla. Yeah. You might recall Glorilla when uh when when when D depends on that sentence. You may recall Gorilla I mean market she expressed public interest but she’s now she’s now you know happily in a relationship with Brandon who is playing very good basketball for the Toronto Raptor. He’s playing he’s playing great. He’s playing great. He’s shooting he’s shooting 49%. You know, the three-point shot isn’t going great, but um you know, he’s a guy who um you know, does better when he gets the ball in his hand and can play make and they’re letting him do that a little bit. They let Scotty Barnes do that a little bit. Uh you know, Barnes is having a good year. Barnes um you know, the Raptors are two and0 against the Cavs and um whenever Barnes and Evan Mobley play against each other, there’s extra a little extra spice. They were drafted side by side. Um Barnes won rookie of the year. Uh I you know they both made the all-star game I think uh for the same year and then Evan came back last year and had a I think Barnes had the better third year. Evan came back last year made all NBA defensive player of the year and uh they always get up for each other and Barnes whipped Mobly uh when they played last week in Cleveland. Totally won that uh that round. Um but yeah, I mean the the good thing with Toronto, knock on wood, knock on wood, is uh they’ve been healthy. you know, they’re they’ve pretty much had the same starting five pretty much in every game. Uh maybe there was uh maybe maybe Purle Yaka Ple missed a few games. Yeah, he’s missing time with the back issue, but yeah, they’ve been I mean, just just being able to have mostly rotation is a big leg up on the competition and you know, Toronto’s been able to take advantage of that. The team that they’re playing on Wednesday night uh certainly knows about injuries, but they’re getting better by Tempe. So, Philly uh will be uh hosting them. Um Joel Embiid has missed I think three games now with the right knee. Um yeah, four in a row. Three right knee soreness. Um first one was second night of a back toback. He practiced Tuesday. See if he plays Wednesday. Not an official update on him yet. Paul George came out of Monday’s game looking good and I think the expectation is he’ll be out there on Wednesday. Paul George played his first game um didn’t shoot the ball great. I think he was two of eight or two of nine. Um, and I do think, um, you know, so for them, uh, he’s they’re going to play him at four. Is that their intention, Pontemps? Is that he’s going to be their four? Uh, I mean, I think he and Kelly Ubé were going to be their starting three. Want to square him, but Kelly Ubé is out for a while with a knee injury. Probably had a nasty fall the other day in Detroit. So, I think Paul will probably slot in at the three. As you know, classic Philly, you have one guy come in and you have another guy immediately go out. Exactly. Right. But, you know, they keep again like they’ve found a way to scrap through these games. They’re seven and four in clutch games. They’re tied with Dallas for the most clutch games in the league. Maxi’s been great down the stretch of games. He was great in the fourth quarter um and on Monday against the Clippers. Clippers playing second night of the back toback. Looked like they got a little tired and you know, Sixers didn’t play well, but they managed to win. and they keep finding ways to stack wins and just kind of hang around and if they can get everybody on the court and again it seems like Joel Embiid is not far away. Nick Nurse said that Monday he practiced Tuesday. We’ll see if he plays Wednesday. Um you would have thought a backtoback in Milwaukee was a loss two days ago. Now might be a different story. So, you know, they’re they’re plugging along and VJ Edgecom has been good. And, you know, it’s like we’ve said a few times, it’s it’s a far different vibe than last year when they came in the season with these massive expectations. But, it’s a much better mood around the team because, you know, instead of being way below expectations, there were frankly no expectations coming into this season with the way Maxi’s played and with the way Edgecom has played and the way Quinton Grimes, frankly, has played. I mean, McMahon’s brought that trade up a couple times. I mean, he has been incredible for the moment. I’ve got good news. I do have good news for the Mavericks on that trade. Yeah, it is no longer true that Quinton Grimes is averaging more points per game than Kayla Martin has scored all season, but it’s it’s 22 uh for the season for Cayla Martin to 17 per game for Quinton Grimes. I mean, Quinton Grimes got an argument for six man of the year. He’s been great. So, yeah, but they’re playing fast and playing fun and you know, it’s like the vibes are pretty good. So, so when it comes to Paul George, you know, I talked to some scouts and one of the things that they say, and look, they don’t know if he’s going to be able to. He’s coming off knee surgery. I don’t know. But, you know, two years ago when he was in when he had that really good year with the Clippers, the reason that the um that the uh the Sixers made him the four-year max offer, you know, it’s funny. You talk to people with the Clippers who are not running their mouth about anything right now. But, you know, but they no victory laps right now, but but but they don’t want a victory lap. You know, when you talk to them about Paul George, they’re like, you know, yeah, he left for a four-year max and it, you know, he got injured, you know, twice or whatever right away. They’re like, by the way, we offered him threeear max or, you know, they offered him three years at some big number. What? Like they said, Paul, we’re done with you. like they offered him a big number, you know, like they they wanted him back just on those terms. They did. It wasn’t like they didn’t want him back, but right, one of the reasons why he got those offers, he had this really good year that last year in LA. He was an all-star. It was actually an all-star his last two years in LA. And he shot 41% on threes that year. Um, and he he shot over 40% a couple of times in his career. Wasn’t like it’s never heard of, but he shot the highest volume in his career. And that was one of the things that really opened up his game. He crushed it from three. Yeah. And so what the scouts are saying is, is that still there? Is Paul George still the type of player who can shoot 40% from three on six or seven a game? Maybe the answer is no. Do what Tobias Harris has done for Detroit. Well, I think I mean, yeah. I mean again comparing them to Tobias Harris’s amusing on a variety of levels based off Tobias’s run in Philly right before that him essentially replacing Tobias Harris’s yeah they used his cas which is why McMahon made the comparison and it’s a fitting one but I think the thing to look at to me is uh when Kelly Ubé is back and but when Embiid is back like look again I I I repeatedly said the idea of Philly being some championship contender with with these guys is not the way you should look at it But if they’re rolling out there with VJ Edgecom and Tyrus Maxi Grimes coming off the bench, Paul George at the four and Embiid at the five, they are going to score a gazillion points. Now, they’re going to give up a lot of points and they’re going to struggle to get any rebounds, but they’re going to fly up and down the court and shoot a ton of threes and you’re going to have to guard all of them and they’re going to be fun to watch and decent, which again, go back to a year ago and the absolute cess poolool that their season was to come out of that with VJ Edgecomb and this season that they’re having and Maxi taking a step and like just the general tenor around the team, they’re in a far better place than they were then, even if it’s not the place that they were hoping it would be when they signed to be to that extension and they signed George to that contract a year ago. Okay, we got a ESPN national television game Wednesday night in Cleveland. Rockets at Cavs. Cavs, despite all of their injuries and various woes, are 10 and five and have the second best record in the East. Rockets continue to be one of the more impressive teams in the Western Conference. Um key road game uh McMahon for the Rockets uh to uh just to to to see how their defense works against Donovan Mitchell. He’s having an absolutely spectacular season. Yeah. Also uh let’s see how the Cavs defense deals with the number one offense in the NBA. That’s true. Even with the addition Yeah. Even with the addition of Kevin Durant, I don’t know that anybody anticipated that Houston would be the league’s best offense. I did not anticipate uh 20% of the way into the season, but again, KD’s cooking. Alishon’s taking that next big jump and uh they got some dudes around him. Well, listen, the Rockets, we talked the other day about Kevin Durant and the impact Kevin Durant has had and obviously him replacing Jaylen Green and to a lesser extent Dylan Brooks is going to help their offensive efficiency. But I just want to point this out. The Rockets have right now a 40.8% 8% offensive rebound rate. That means they’re just for just so people understand what that means. That means they’re rebounding two out of every five of their own misses in a game. The second highest offensive rebounding team in the league is Portland at 35.8%. 5% words, which is very good. The gap the gap from Portland to another five points down is the Nets in 16th. That is what we’re talking about in terms of the separation for the Rockets at the top in terms of how they’ve been. Well, and Shenun like they are just when they’re in there like in that Magic game there was a possession in either late in the fourth quarter or overtime when he and Shangun just took the ball away from the Magic I think five times in a row before Shangon made this ridiculous behind the back pass for a layup and like they’re just unstoppable on the glass. So even when they do miss and they’re making more shots than they normally have been, they’re rebounding at half the time. It’s unbelievable. Steven Adams is averaging 5.1 offensive rebounds per game in 22 minutes, by the way. But get this, their third big man, Clint Capella, is averaging 2.5 offensive rebounds in 9.8 minutes. It’s It’s crazy. I mean, they’re just a machine. I’m in Thompson with a couple of games. They’ve got a point guard who is an elite offensive rebound. And that point guard a lot of times will bring the ball up, get him in their stuff and relocate to that dunker spot where he is a problem as a finisher and as a rebounder. Awesome. Awesome start for them. These are Donovan Mitchell statistics. You know, if you had to take a straw poll right now, I I you know, the tough one would be be who you’re putting it fifth. um probably wouldn’t make the top five cuz of how awesome Victor’s been, but um and even Cade. But here’s Donovan Mitchell’s stats through 13 games. 31 points, 51% shooting, 39% from three, which is significantly above his um his career average. He’s getting to the the free throw line eight times a game, which is vital for them. Uh five and a half assists, one and a half steals. um and just he’s playing point guard, guys. I mean, maybe not the entire game, but he’s when it matters, he’s playing point guard and um his rebounds. He’s he’s lamenting that he’s not rebounding more because the Cavs are struggling uh rebound, but when he does rebound, he gets it and runs and is like, you know, playing super high tempo. Like, he has been awesome for them. And he’s also playing 34 minutes, which is three minutes more than he played last year. and is um not ideal. And that is a number that’s you got to keep an eye on. I think he’s been a top three guard in the Eastern Conference. Cade, Tyrese Maxi, Don Mitchell. Yeah. And and again, to go back to what we talked about the other day, it’s only 73 minutes. It’s only three games, but when Darius Garland’s been on the court this season, Cleveland’s offensive rating is 128.3. like they really need that second creator on the court. And look, like we talked about, they’re 13 points worse on offense when Donovan Mitchell is on the bench. Like, he’s been awesome for them. But what turned them into a supercharged offensive team last year was having two of him, Donovan Mitchell, and Ty Jerome out there all the time. And basically, they’ve played this entire year with one of them. And so naturally the offense has been worse. So, you know, we’ll see how long Garland’s out. They’ve only called this toe thing a contusion. We talked about the concerns we have about that. But I think until they get him back out there on a regular basis, they’re going to be what they’ve basically been, which is they’ve again grinded out wins, which is important, and found ways to win these games. But it’s also putting a ton of strain on Donovan, and it hasn’t been pretty at times. One thing that Kenny Atinson has been trying to get them to do is to go to the rim more because that’s something that they were they were good at last year and that is been eroded this year for various reasons. Primarily because Evan Milbas had to handle the ball more than go down there and dunk. Um but they did get 54 points in the paint against the Bucks. Now, okay, Giannis went out in the second quarter. He’s a rim defender. Um but that was a step forward in the right direction, but um Houston’s going to make it very hard to get down there. there. I mean, you want to talk about having difficulty uh getting to the rim, try getting to the rim against those trees. So, uh it’ll be interesting to see whether or not that strategy can hold up, but there’ll be a good game on ESPN on Wednesday, followed up by uh McMahon show down there. Uh the Knicks visiting. Um looking forward to your great reporting on that McMahon. Can’t wait. Always excited. Thank you for the back. You’re wearing a suit to the game. Uh all right. Thank you very much to McMahon and Bontams. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you for watching, listening to the Hoop Collective. We’ll catch you guys later this week. Adios, amigos.

Brian Windhorst is joined by Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the many injuries to the stars across the NBA and what is causing the rise in players missing time. Then, the guys discuss if the Bucks can survive without Giannis, including if the depth in the Eastern Conference could be more challenging than the Western Conference. Plus with Wembanyama, Castle and Harper sidelined, can the Spurs stay alive in the West?
0:00 Intro
1:12 Star injuries across the NBA – What can be done?
10:20 Can Milwaukee stay afloat without Giannis?
22:18 Spurs injuries a concern yet?
28:48 Recipe For Raptors’ early success
36:53 Vibes around 76ers improving
42:32 Expectations for Cavs-Rockets

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