Will The Maple Leafs Sell At The Trade Deadline? | Real Kyper & Bourne
[Music] Here we go. Jam-packed two hours on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sports 360, Sportsnet 590, The Fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Can also catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. Nick Giprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKe, Derek Brando, and Jake Schultz. I left the snake part out. Maybe his mom’s listening. Doesn’t really appreciate me calling her son a snake. Jake the nice guy Schultz. He’s the man. Does a fantastic job on her show. Should Sam read this before we do anything else. Tons to get into, including a read. Not yet. We’ll do it. We’ll do it for a read that Sammy has forgotten to read on a couple occasions. Listen, I’m forgetting a lot of things. I think your brain’s foggy with the cold. Can Can you promise me by February or March you’ll get over the Blue Jays loss? Oh, okay. You want to trust your time here? I really considered taking a day today. I woke up this morning. I felt like crap. I had texted I had texted our boss Ryan being like, “Yes, you know, I I’m not feeling great. I I maybe take a day tomorrow.” Oh, listen. You’re a millennial. Of course you’re going to do that. And I woke up. And I woke up. Yeah. take two days off, Sammy. I love how you say this about and I say this about Gen Z. So, we’re we’re all and then I was like, you know what? I can’t take the day off because then Danielle Franchesci, who is a professional, will come in and do a really great lineup and I’ll have to hear it from Kipper for three weeks. So, I decided to come into work. Y does such a good job at made Sam come to work today. See, in in my day, in my day, if we if we kind of compared it to playing hockey, I don’t want to come out of the lineup because someone better is going to come in and steal my job. I didn’t want to get pipped. No. No. Actually steal my job. Yeah, that’s And guess why I’m sitting here today, boys. You know, one of the cra Yeah. One of the crazier things just What the hell was I going to say? Oh, no. What? Oh, you don’t remember what you’re going to say? No, no, no. Just Just skip on. I think I better know. No, you’re not worried about anybody stealing your job here. No, no, we’re good. We’re good. We We actually found another lineup while we were here, Sammy, from a different show. It’s pretty good, but we won’t mention Oh, yeah. Great. Yeah, the fan hockey show. Yeah, the fan hockey show. Look, it’s colored. It’s colored. It’s got standings and it didn’t forget about It still got buried. Didn’t forget about the technical director’s names on the lineup sheet. Listen, I got to tell you right now, there are people who are much better at this than me. It’s okay, Savvy. I disagree, Sam. We know where your true strengths. I disagree. Lie. Certainly not lie. Okay. Tons to get into, including my first Real Kipper trade board on sportsnet.ca. If you get a chance, go through it. See, these are some of the names that have stuck out for me, of course. Um, if we’re focusing on the Toronto Maple Leafs, and maybe we’ll get back into that a little later. I’ve got Brandon Carlo on the board. Of course, there’s other names that could easily go, including like Nick Robertson and Max Doi, but I’m just focusing on the names that I think that uh, you know, could come out of the gate with some some pretty good value here. And we’re happy to discuss that a little later. Not now. Um, n not now. Okay. Not now because I I just there’s so much to get into where the Toronto Maple Leafs are going into tomorrow night and I’ I’d rather start there. Yep. Uh just in terms of now the Toronto Maple Leafs had their uh first full practice together as a team uh this afternoon or this morning. First one since a very tough loss against Montreal. Craig Barubi I think was uh very positive at the conclusion, I think, or at the beginning of the skate. I’m not sure which one, but we saw it on uh on the internet where he basically sent the message that, “Boys, the glass is half full.” One of my favorite replies to that I saw was full of what? Oh, that’s funny. You know, it’s uh they’re at a concerning crossroads. I I guess I am not as thrilled about this whole they had a full practice today because N Matthews and Wah were all in gray, you know, not really officially part of things jerseys. So, you know, were they really all together? Are those guys ready? Are they not ready? Okay, let’s let’s go to Craig Bruies for our first clip on Matthews, NY and Nick Wah. Okay, I’m going to NY Matthews and Rupa all practice today look good. They did finish practice but still got to see boat tomorrow. So that’s where they’re at. But it was good that they’re out there and finished practice. Went through all the drills and uh Yeah. So that’s where they’re at. So that means maybe tomorrow. Yeah, we got to see where they’re at. Sure. At least the Yeah. Oh yeah. But just got to see where they’re at. See, see, you know, I haven’t talked to trainer. I haven’t talked to those guys yet after practice. So, that’s something I got to do. Okay. Have you ever practiced three times in a row and not been ready to play? Let’s just break this down just a little bit more here, just in terms of what the hell does that mean? I also thought it was funny that he was like, “They practiced today, so that’s where they’re at.” Hold on for a second. What does that mean? So, so the way I interpret that, okay, is that we think that they can play, but we’ve got to pull a Sammy now and see how he feels. And if he doesn’t feel right, they get to stay at home. I would say my attendance has been exemplary over our five years together. I’m just I’m just opening I’m just using your opening remark example. Yes. Yeah. So So we assume that they’re clear to play, that they’re good enough to look good at practice, everything’s fine, but we’re going to wake up tomorrow and see how they feel. Do they all have concussions? Like this is the example we used for concussions, but No, but you’re you’re either cleared or you’re not cleared at this point, right? If they had concussions, they wouldn’t be practicing. No, I don’t think they do. I’m just saying then why is it so if they don’t play tomorrow night, it’s because they do not want to play tomorrow night. They don’t feel right. They’re not That’s what Craig Brub is telling us here. So my question to you is really in 24 hours that you to your point we could see two or three days of of something and then in the last 24 hours they’re going to wake up and not feel right to play. That’s all that’s left in in my opinion on what I heard. Is there anything else I I’m missing? Well, the only thought I had is, you know, you play on Saturday night, and if you miss one game, the Wednesday, that gives you basically another week of recovery. And so, like, if So, why not say that they’re not ready? Shut them down. Why Why not just shut it down or turn around? You think they should if they don’t play? I’m just saying if you’re the team and you’re looking at it, you have a six day span with just one game in the middle where if you miss the one game, you get a nice long So, if you’re if you’re like, we’re going to bring them back, let’s just miss one more game. Can’t you decide that like late afternoon Tuesday? Sure could. Sure could have decided it Sunday. So we’re down to Gee, I hope they wake up on the right side of the bed. Yeah, that’s what we’re down to. It’s It’s pretty insane. And I, as a player, wouldn’t even like any of this. I’d be like, if you’re the injured player, yes, I am I in am I if I’m saying I can go go beyond that. I’ve been in this situation before where I like if he doesn’t play, I’m playing. Well, can you let me know? I I’d like to know if I’m gonna be a healthy scratch, too. This isn’t just one person. This is like this could affect three or four of them. Right. So, it’s like, do I have to come to the rink, see how you feel, and if you’re not in, I’m in. Yes. And it’s like, okay, I’ll I’ll do my best, but boy, I would have liked to had a good night’s rest knowing I’m playing the night before. I I have a hard time like because you know the Matthews stuff has been well documented with his privacy and the way he wants to be treated in terms of injuries and letting stuff get out and we all understand that but do Matthew Ny and Nick Wah have that exact same mentality? Like there’s some there’s a disconnect or a real connect one or the other between players, coaches, training staff, management. It just it’s all they just want it to be a biggest the biggest mystery possible and it is. If if I’m Bubby today, I’m going, “Yeah, I expect them to play.” Yeah. And let them pull themselves out. Then then you got to come back to me and you got to say, “No, I don’t feel well.” Yeah. I hope like And then call it for what it is. He felt he wasn’t ready. We’re going to give him till Saturday. Yep. Okay. Sure. And that’s allowed. You’re allowed to say this guy didn’t feel ready to go, so that’s why he’s not playing. The uh the thing that scares me is like okay so you called today a return with the full team and all those guys are on the ice. One of the lines was Robertson domey yarn croc today which what is that not great like are they assuming one or two of these guys will be back and today’s lines meant nothing maybe that’s I actually think that’s probably it where they’re like the lines don’t mean anything we can’t put these guys in just throw matter what is the second line if if those guys can’t play tomorrow night okay man can I can I I don’t know. Yeah, we don’t know. Yeah. Is there a reason they’re not put giving Lton more of a look higher in the top six here with so many guys out? Like I think he’s a guy that I think he’d welcome it. I think all three of us have liked him in his start to his season. I know it was choppy. He got hurt to start, gets hurt again, but since he’s been back, I think he’s shown speed. He’s shown aggression. He’s shown the ability to dig. Yeah. I I’m putting him up in the top six. There is the matter of just does it matter where these guys are written up because if you’re going to say okay let’s put him on the second line build the second line uh with lot at center to me it’s McMahon on the wing and I don’t know Robertson he’s got McMahon on his one wing it could be Lorent on the other wing you know so I don’t know that there’s a clear I would just like Lton to be playing more 17 minutes as opposed to having Doli being on the second line playing center when it looks like he doesn’t want to like he doesn’t enjoy doing that right to me that’s what it looks like to Anyways, all right, let’s go to Craig Brewy on his sense of the group where they are right now. Clip two. Do what’s your sense of the group? Do you do you Well, I thought it was good. It was positive. We had a real good meeting this morning and um going over some stuff and what we got to be better at and uh where we will be better at and um I thought the vibe was good and guys were good and good practice. It’s good hard practice. We’re talking about practice. I think it’s tough to argue with the idea that like positivity is the only way to kind of plow ahead here, but it just doesn’t seem like who he is. Like I’m sure he’s frustrated, Craig Baruby, but like you kind of have to go into this can’t be in there miserable every day. No, you can’t. But the ones that really are the most dangerous for your mind are the ones that don’t say anything at all. So you’re not coming in positive. You’re not coming in negative. You’re just coming in. Yeah. And coach just even keel doesn’t matter. Well, just not even even keel. It’s like here’s the drills. Let’s go. And there there’s there’s nothing more than that where it’s like makes people nervous. Makes people nervous. Does he like me? Does he not like me? Like I’ i’d keep them all guessing instead of playing the positive card right now. And I’m not saying to play the negative card either. Yeah. But the ones that are most dangerous as a coach to a player’s mindset are the ones that you can’t read. And by dangerous, you mean I’d rather him being silent now than positive. Because you do you turn it in on yourself like all of us with our neurosis being like oh boy. Yeah. Oh boy. I think they should have an they should all be feeling oh boy. Yeah. Do you want to hear the other his the because I mean the like you said the off the tour. Did you say that about the glass half full? Did you say that on air? We talked about it off too. So clip nine. Play the clip of him talking about the glass half full there. Okay. Always good after practicing. Glass half full. Not glass half empty. That’s the way you got to look at things. glass is half full. We got an opportunity to go here tomorrow and get two points and that’s got to be our focus and then we’ll go from there to the next game. Yep. But you know if there’s if there’s a chance that it doesn’t turn around, you know, can you keep playing the glass half full moving forward? Like I I mean it’s just a long year, right? Long year. But is this now the time to do that? is are is he feeling like they’re most vulnerable right now that you they need a pat on the back? I think sometimes when coaches sense that not that it’s hopeless, but that you’re severely disadvantaged and I their injury situation right now being without, you know, two of your top three centers and your top winger, top D. I feel like it’s almost like a pity thing where it’s like I don’t think it’s fair of me to squeeze these guys when we may not have the horses right now. And that’s why you you got to just leave as is. The only true card that they can play outside of, you know, I don’t expect anything to happen imminently on a trade is you got no choice but to to get healthy guys back in. Yeah. And and just see what it looks like. I think Sam’s point that he keeps making off air is reasonable. If these guys are close, they should play now. Sorry to throw you under the bus. No, no, it’s okay. Now that he’s throw me under the bus, I’ll just say it like your team’s floundering. You are about to embark on the biggest road trip of the year, maybe of your whole tenure here. With this with the season teetering on a very very big cliff, I’d like to see them play tomorrow night. Yes. Like if you’re practicing three days in a row, I I don’t know if it’s too much to ask for the fans to want to see the captain in the game. We don’t, you know, is it 100% you’re looking for because there’s a lot of Leaf fans that’ll take you at 70 right now. And it’s not it’s not playoffs. It’s not do or die, but it does kind of feel like that you lose tomorrow night, then you’re two games under 500, and then you’re going to Washington, going to Pittsburgh, into like into tougher places to play. Like I know they’re not world beaters, but they’re better than you. But it’s also this time of year over the past x amount of years, four years, November has been where the Leafs have gone, okay, we’re just going to separate from the pack. And then when you have a three-game losing streak later in the year, whatever, it it can make it a lot easier. The opposite has happened here. And so instead of getting to a point where it’s like, ah, not you know, sometimes you lose, you’re getting to a point where you can’t afford those stretches of play and you need some wins. Yeah. So, and it is a little daunting right now when you factor in that the easiest part of the schedule is just kind of gone and half full, half empty. Okay. Can we do the the half full part? Mhm. Love the half full. Okay. Three games in a row. win three games in a row and what does it do to change your season? Yeah, three. Not asking for a ton here. I know that they’re okay. Columbus right now doesn’t sound like Winsky is going to play tomorrow night. I’ve seen both sides of it. I saw that maybe he would play and that maybe not play. Okay, maybe not at 100%. Olivier left the game last night, too. He’s a he’s a maybe a window there. And then you’ve got the weekend. Washington just starting to probably feel good. Pittsburgh’s kind of Are they wobbling a little bit? So, three games in a row. There’s your There’s your glass half full. Yeah. Okay. The half empty part is there’s 60 games left. What do you think it’s going to take to make the playoffs? like 36 26 you know like some sort of like well above 500. Tell me how many points you trying to get to 91 points. I think that’s 35 wins. Let’s say 92. Yeah, 92. What is the percentage clip? 6 10 615. Can this team go 610 615 starting tomorrow night? Yes, they can. Not I mean assuming they’re on the verge of healthy here. They got guys who are about to come back. You know, see I I see no signs of that based on what I’ve seen for 22 games. But I don’t know what the rest of these players like don’t don’t put me on an island here where I look like a crazy person saying a team with this roster is is decent. Like they they lost Mitch Mner and that’s substantial. I will never downplay that. Yeah. Machelli can’t score. They had 108 points last year, you know. Do you think they’re suddenly a 88 point team? Are they 30 points worse? I I think I think uh I think they’ve gotten slower. Yeah, I don’t think they’re better either. I think they’re worse, too. They’ve gotten slower. And I I I don’t know outside of Willie and Tavvaris where the offense is going to come from. Okay. But you’re aware of Austin Matthews. Matthew, you’ve heard of them before? I have. Yeah. So, they can get points. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Just take the gray jersey off any time. Yes, I know. But in theor I’m doing a theory where they are hockey players. Yeah. You know, in the world where they don’t have those guys, they stink. They’re brutal without Matthews and N and Tanv. And Tanv, who doesn’t look like he’s Tanv’s long term. I’m I’m worried about him. Is that right? Like just I’m I’m worried about like just long term for him. Yeah. I I worry too, you know, hearing the whispers of having the word neck involved. I think of Jake Muzzin and that was the end of Jake Muzin with the Leafs. I gotta tell you, like you I I’ve been negative about this team clearly and like have had my worries, but I’ve never been more worried than the way you just put it there, Kipper, about like the 610 winning percentage to like get into the playoffs. That 610’s not crazy, is it? It feels crazy right now. It does. Here’s the thing. It feels very the Islanders have a 610. They’re 138 and two on the year. Okay, that makes me feel a little better. You know, 610 is 127 and four. The Minnesota Wild 10 is 116 and six. What’s Colorado? Colorado is 841. Okay. Okay. 161 and five. That feels a little unattainable. Um, I the the glass half full, if I if I may for my glass half full, the one that I said early in the season and people have I love when people tweet my own takes back to me. It’s one of my favorite things. But this team has always blown through the regular season and there’s never been any adversity and they’ve been one of the top three spots in the Atlantic every single year all the way down the stretch just fighting for seating. Like there is a world to me where they get healthy and they scrap and claw and they have to play these high intensity games down the stretch and they find their way into the wild card and they take a different route for once where maybe it looks a little bit different. That’s one glass half full that I have that like maybe you play your way into the the metro as a wild card. Like think about what I mean I’m not saying they’re the Florida Panthers but think about what the Florida Panthers did when Paul Maurice went banana lands went redface on the bench. That team stunk all year and got hot at the end of the year. got in, got hot, and went on a run. I’m not saying that that’s them, but there is a different route here that they could potentially take that may be a little bit different. That’s that’s my as full as my glass can get. All right. Things don’t go perfectly, they’re boned. They’re done. They’re done. They’re done. But anyways, uh and they’ve got Joseph Wall back. Yeah, this is But the problem is there’s no stolers to be found. Let’s go to Craig Brewy on Joseph Wall clip four. Um he’s been solid and um it’s been very good for our team getting him back in, you know, and then just his battle level like he was so pissed off at me for pulling him the other night, but I like that. And um yeah, you know, he wanted to be in there and fight and that’s good. Did he understand why? Oh yeah, for sure he did. But he wants to be in there and fight. That’s great. I like the W. They’re just going to lean on him so hard here. Even if Stallar is like he hasn’t, boys, he hasn’t skated in two weeks. They should trade for a goalie. Here we go again. They should try to find a goalie. Ask Oilers fans how easy that is. Well, no, but like a third string guy. You’re going to just I guess he’ll be just as good as any third string guy. So, I don’t know. I mean, I genuinely don’t know. Maybe know that. You’re just hoping Valley doesn’t allow Hill to be he’s never said he’s never been a he’s not ready right now to play in the National Hockey League full-time or even back up is my opinion. He’s capable of maybe playing a game, you know, but yeah, it’s it’s it’s hard to hang your hat on that. Yeah, and they are boys playing a ton of hockey leafs. Yeah, like you know I I just looking at their schedule like you know they had a nice little break here but it’s a backtoback this weekend uh Friday Saturday and then it’s Tuesday Thursday Thursday Saturday Monday Thursday Saturday Tuesday Thursday Thursday like it’s just it’s three times a week every week until Chris every week until Christmas. Yeah, Joseph Wall is going to play 85% of those games. Yes, that’s just ridiculous for a guy who’s still has, you know, an injury prone type of reputation. But they have no other option. What’s the other option? He’ll be he’s got four times. Yeah. Somebody you got to you got to hope and pray somebody with them. No, he’s gone. He’s gone. Claimed by Yeah, that’s right. Carolina. Who claimed him? Carolina. It’s Actimov doublea. Yeah. Uh, it’s it’s it’s crazy that they haven’t had Wool and Stallars healthy at not for one hockey game this year. Is it that crazy? No, it’s not that crazy. It’s not that crazy because we’ve talked about them both being injuryprone. No, it’s crazy. It’s crazy that they haven’t over two months now there’sn’t been a day where you could make a pick and say one or the other. That’s a lot. No, I I I honestly don’t think it’s Yeah, that I I cannot uh buy. God, I feel like two against one all week. Feel bad. It’s okay. I’m here representing the the positive people out there. Uh just had a positive Peter spin. Good good news. Mabe. Yeah, he’s back. C can we talk about your trade list a little bit before? Yeah, absolutely. Uh just a reminder, uh I’ve got my first real kipper trade board on sportsnet.ca. I do have one Toronto Maple Leaf Carlo on it. Of course, plenty of speculation on what they can do with Robertson or Doy or anybody else, but u Carlo to me is still a very attractive piece for other teams. Let me let me read a little something here. There’s a strong suggestion Toronto Buffalo were in talks over having Carlo involved in a JJ Purka trade and then moving Carlo uh towards a Carlo for Bowen Byum type trade over the summer. Bow and Byron. Oh, would that have been a nice change of pace around here? Uh what happened? Yes. Somebody got cold feet and pulled it. I would imagine it would be Kevin Adams being like, I can’t trade another young guy. Yeah. I don’t think I don’t think that’s I I I cannot confirm or deny that, but someone suggested to me maybe even the Leafs weren’t prepared to do that. Yeah. Interesting. It just would have been nice to have a different look, an offensive Okay, I’ll tell you what it would have done. It would have alleviated some pressure off Morgan Riley. That’s what Byum would have done, right? Puted him in a or or eventually for you go back to Morgan Riley and say, “Buddy, it’s been well over 10 years. How about a fresh start somewhere else?” Mhm. It’s just not working here. I I would have loved I’m not going to lie, like I looked at your piece and I saw all the names. I would have loved a couple more leads on there. I would. Yeah. You know, problem is you’re thinking of trading guys out. They’re in last place. Is it They’re in last place in Chinov for Robertson. that one against somebody somebody pulled it off at the last second. That that should have happened. That that could have been done, but you know, would that have satisfied you? No, I I think they should be looking at trading guys that are on their roster for picks. That’s kind of where I’m at. Boston Boston did this exact same thing last year and now they’re back in playoff position. Buddy, do not hold up the Boston Bruins as a picture of like here come the Bruins. But they traded their traded all time. They’re better than we thought. Yes, they are better than we thought. Yeah, totally. But what’s the point? What’s the you know, no team in their right mind with a prime age Austin Matthews and William Knander and you know, David Passnack and Charlie Makavoy, those guys aren’t the the same. And even still, you can go to Tavvarz and you can go you’re four guys deep there. You’re not you have too many good pieces to tear it down to the studs. doesn’t it’s not even an option when you have all that. I’m not saying tear it down to the studs, but there is a great chance for a soft reset here and to be not lose the sixth overall pick. But do you still have that in two months? I will have that conversation with you in February. For sure. Absolutely. It’s insane to think about it November. We have time to make, you know, and do what was the feedback you got off of firing Barubi yesterday? Uh, you know, mixed. I think a lot of fans are the same as me where it’s maybe it’s not fair to him, but I think people see how it can make sense. I think another T I think a lot of fans don’t want to bail out this core again. You know, there’s you’re you’re you’re you’re really going back without Mner. They’re still the same guys who it’s not couldn’t get the job done. The James Myrtle wrote something today and talked about coaches since Austin Matthews has come into the league. And organizationally, only three teams have had fewer coaches than the Leafs over this time. They haven’t been bailing this team out. Avalanche Cup winners. Avalanche, Colorado. Oh, sorry. Tampa Cup winners. St. Louis and uh No, Florida. Uh Florida, I think, is is one. And then there’s also one other that Are you talking about a coaching change? Yeah. Who’s had less than three? The Leafs have had three coaches since Austin Matthews have came into the league and it’s three teams. It might I think sorry I think it’s four teams and three of one cups. Yeah. So the point is that like those are the only teams that are hanging on to coaches otherwise the average for coaches is two two and a half seasons and so this Leafs team they haven’t had that many coaches. It’s not like it’s been every two years. It’s interesting but yeah but it’s a good angle. a new coach would be Austin’s fourth fourth, which is below average for the NHL over that 10ear span. So, I’m just saying it’s not revolutionary. I I I tend to agree with Brad Tree living that a coaching change, I don’t see a big huge difference. And I I look at the New York Rangers JB with Sullivan going in there. Okay. Did this guy become one of the dumbest coaches in the last three months? They kind of still look the same, the Rangers. Their their underlying numbers are really good. So, you want to bring Dbor in? It’s like watching the Rangers bring Sullivan in and I’m like, I I I don’t see a big difference. Yeah, maybe you’re not any worse, are you? You know, and to me, at least you’re trying something else. My my whole thing though with Peruby is it would be unfair to him right now. They had a great year last year. this year they they was 10 games and then everyone’s hurt and and their goalies made no saves. I mean, so give him some healthy bodies. Yeah, big trip and then you’ll fire them. But yeah, give them 10 day 10 10 games here and if they’re healthy and they stink for 10 more games, I I mean I’m not advocating for it by any stretch. I don’t know what the right option is, but I just know if you’re not rebuilding, you’re not doing a soft reset, you can’t wait till January to do it. If you’re going to do it, uh, we should go, uh, get to Luke. But, uh, who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best thing this holiday season? Sports at 590, the fan is all in supporting the 50/50 fortune for sick kids. It’s a 50/50, so the money we raise, uh, the more money we raise, the more kids we can help, and the more holiday cash you can win. The current take-home prize is a guaranteed $100,000. Buy your tickets at 5050forttune.ca A or text the word money to 59590 and we’ll send the link right to your phone. 18 plus, please play responsibly. Standard message and data rates may apply. Lottery license RAF1518410. Fellas, what would you do with 100 grand, Sam? Uh yeah, I don’t know. Be happy. Just I’m not like take a day off from us. Maybe buy any buy some new hockey gear. Could use some new wheels. Nice. All right, we’ll take a quick break. When we return, sportsnet.ca’s very own Luke Fox will join us. The Leafs practice today, but they still chose rest over I don’t know, working on the power play. We’ll get Luke’s thoughts on that and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. [Music] Welcome back to the program. Nick Gibrios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKe, Leaf Hour Edition. Let’s welcome in Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for sportsnet.ca. Luke, how are you, man? I’m doing well. How are you guys? So, Saturday to Wednesday and really uh today’s the only real practice um under their belt. Is this uh are you in favor of this rest over, you know, a critical road trip coming up? Not really. Uh I I think there’s too many issues that they probably should have practiced in full yesterday. I mean, Sunday is is a day off, right? It’s it’s mandated in the CBA that that teams get uh a day off per week, a full day off. And you can’t argue against it. But uh myself, my colleagues arrived yesterday morning at at Ford Performance Center fully expecting like, okay, that was a brutal loss in Montreal. Uh the coach, you know, called them out for, you know, not playing like a veteran team. uh a little bit of panic as soon as they went down a couple goals in the first period. You would expect uh all hands on deck uh trying to work their way out of it. Instead, it was more of a developmental practice is what they called it. They didn’t want to call it an optional. And you know, so you had a couple D pairs working on stuff with one coach on this pad and other guys working on their shot or or their wall pickups over there, but they weren’t together as a team. and the guys who logged a lot of minutes uh stayed off the ice entirely. Uh it was it was a little bit curious for sure. Now, you know, you’d like to think that the team knows what the guys need better than someone on the outside like we do, but you know, special teams need work. It’s not like you have to go and do a million battle drills and tires yourself out. I just thought it might have been a moment for some team togetherness and try to smooth out some of the the kinks here because there’s more than just one. Luke, I I know Scott Lton said all the right things today just about, you know, how to manage these tough streaks and sort of holding yourselves accountable but still not applying too much pressure. You’re around the team quite a bit. What is the vibe? Do you sense outside of Lton frustration with the whether it’s coaching staff, the way things are going or are things glass half full around there? Uh, no. I think if they’re if they’re half full, the coach doesn’t have to come out and tell you to look at things half full, right? You just are you just are looking at it half full, right? Uh, no. It’s it’s downbeat. Um, I haven’t sensed like crazy frustration. It’s not like guys are banging their their sticks against the the boards or the glass in practice. If anything, I think it’s like low energy. So, where it really stood out to me was Saturday morning at Bell Center comparing the two morning skates. Now, the Leafs was an optional, so not every single guy was on the ice, but there was a joy about the Canadians, even though at that point they were on a fiveame skid and hadn’t been playing very well, but they’re celebrating with each other over the silly practice goals. They’re hooting and hollering. They’re doing the the beaver tail slaps with their sticks over every little thing. There was an energy about them. The Leafs, it’s just felt like going through the motions. Okay, the assistant coach wants us to do this drill. We’ll do it. It It’s just been quiet. Yeah, it’s not been angry. It’s been quiet. God, that’s worse. You’re watching and listening to Luke Fox from sportset.ca. Will they or won’t they play Matthews, NY, and Wah? Now, we just had an earlier discussion on everything points to the direction that they’re they’re good, they’re ready, they look good, you good shooting. I I don’t know. And then you guys are told today that we’ll we’ll see tomorrow. So, what could happen in 24 hours where they don’t know to when they know? That’s a great question. And I I I guess it’s waking up and how does it feel? Like if it’s a muscle thing, which is what we suspect it is with with N and Matthews in particular, like how did you sleep? How are you feeling? You feel like you could take some contact. My guess is no. Like if you’re ready to go, you’re not you don’t usually practice in an extra sweater. So all three of those guys were wearing gray, which is the sign of you’re not in the in the lineup. and Brew is saying maybe. And it’s been a lot of may lately. I feel like if you’re close, then then play. If not, just come out and say, you know what, we have a day off after that game. We’re not going to rush these guys back. We don’t want to risk further energy. Uh let’s wait till the weekend. Um but it is curious how we’re keep we keep being told that they’re close. We see signs that they’re close, but it’s not a full green light yet. Yeah, I I’m I’m seeing, you know, some things from the team that they’re looking forward to the road trip to team dinners and poker on the plane and connecting and all that sort of stuff. You know, you look around, you talk about Montreal Canadians and the way that they sort of seem to have this sort of celebratory nature. I’ve seen some clips of the Washington Capitals dressing room. They’re not setting the world on fire, but they’re having fun. Is that like an element here that the Leafs maybe can help them a little bit? a little bit of, you know, being home too much at the start of the year isn’t always a great thing when you got a lot of new players. Yeah, you’re looking for for anything at this point, Justin. And and I but I do think the Leafs have had a really wonky schedule. It’s been really homeheavy. All their road trips and I I’ve been on almost all of them. So there it’s a lot of one and done. It’s like you fly into Chicago, you fly back. You fly into Boston, you fly back. you don’t get that prolonged like, hey guys, the the older guys are away from their kids and their family. Uh the younger guys, some of them are may not know their teammates all that well. It’s like there’s lots of chances for for hanging out at the hotel together on the plane having dinners. And guys will tell you like that that helps. And maybe it would have helped the lease if it if they had one of these longer like week week long week plus long road trips earlier in the season. um because they didn’t make enough hay, I think, at home and their road record right now is is worst in the league. So, you’re looking for something to to change the the vibe, change the mood. So, of course, you’re going to hang your hat on, hey, we’re going to get out there and bond us against the world, get away from the noise, you know, they flick on uh local radio in Columbus or Washington, they’re not going to catch your show, right, Luke? When when Joe Yeah. No kidding. When when Joseph Wall took six weeks off, I don’t think it was the thought that when he was going to return, he was going to play every game, but it sure feels like that now. Where are we on Stalars? And how serious is this? That’s a million-dollar question, Nick. Uh, and, uh, myself and others have been asking that point blank. It it’s really curious because the the night he got hurt, we were led to believe he might be available the very next game and now he hasn’t even been on the ice and Bubé has said that there hasn’t been a setback that this is just something that maybe he thought was more minor than actually was and now we’re told he’s a ways away. Uh, I guess the good news is the timing of Joseph Wool coming back has coincided with Stler’s departure. So, you’re not leaning on a hill to be acting off tandem right now. And Joseph Wool’s played very good. I love the fact that Joseph Bull was angry with Brew for pulling him in Montreal. He wanted to stay in the net. He didn’t want to give up. I think Brew respected that. But, you know, we’re going to see a little bit of Hill to be here. There’s a backto-back on this trip and they’re being very cautious with overworking Wool. They’ve admitted that they overworked Stallers at the beginning of the season. I think they view these guys as tandem goalies. Neither has proven ever in their career that they’re a 50 start guy. So, Wool’s going to need to catch a breath. I think that was part of the reason for the pull. Uh part of the reason why we’re probably going to see a little bit of Hill to be as the schedule ramps up. But I’m with you. I’m very curious to see when when Sters comes back. He hasn’t even been traveling with the team yet, Nick. So, is he going to be on this trip? Uh, we’ll have our eyes open. What uh what are your thoughts on where Columbus is at? I feel like they’ve played Columbus 100 times this year. Uh are we going to expect anything different out of that group this trip? Well, we’re going to expect them to be as battered or more battered than the Leafs. Winsky’s Winsky’s banged up. Marenko’s banged up. Monahan’s banged up. Olivier’s going to see a doctor today. So, the good news for the Leafs is they’re getting a wounded opponent. They should be motivated. You don’t want to lose uh three games to the Columbus Blue Jackets before Christmas time. Like, let let’s, you know, prove some people wrong here. Uh, you know, no one wants to hear the cannon go off. Like, show up for this one. Yeah. It it always ends up feeling like they lose 65 in Columbus for some reason. Yeah. It’s usually a wild night there. It is. Yeah, they’ve had some funny games there. Um, anything else for our Luke Fox? Uh, I guess just is Jake McCabe’s face intact. Uh, yeah, like he took God, that guy gets hit in the beak. Everybody worrying about the jaw. Yeah, it was it’s scary, right? Especially on the heels of what we saw what happened with Charlie Makavoy. It’s like you don’t know how bad these things are. And and McCabe was was kind of funny talking uh to reporters after practice saying, “I wasn’t that scared. You know, I I played defense. the the puck rides up off my stick and into my face many times before and he was talking about how his daughter was just hoping that it his face wouldn’t look all messed up by the time he got back home from the road trip. Uh that guy’s that guy’s a that guy’s a warrior, man. Um so when he doesn’t come back from a game, you start to wonder and already won half of the shutdown pair and Chris Tanv, we have no clue when or if this guy’s coming back. So it’s like they another another blow to the defense would just be crushing. So, great news that he’s he’s good to go. Okay, one more before we let you go. Okay, we we’ve heard from Craig Bubby, glass half full. Where are you with some of your colleagues? We know how it works at practice. You guys all sit around. You all talk. You drink stale coffee waiting. We get a hot stove going for sure. You get the hot stove going. Where is the general uh media, your peers on what direction that the Leafs go from here? Yeah. Half empty. Half empty. Wow. But hey, prove, you know, prove it. Prove the world wrong, right? Yeah. There is tons of runway that and and there’s a soft uh conference, soft division. So, there is runway here to prove the doubters wrong. It just feels like one of those seasons with the injuries, with the defense, with only one go good goalie being available at a time. It feels like a cursed season. Tampa Bay Lightning missed the playoffs entirely between a couple trips to the conference finals before they won the cup. The the Vegas Golden Knights missed the playoffs entirely before they went and won the Stanley Cup after going to the final. Like teams have these bad seasons. All All those guys were in their mid20s, right? Yeah. Little older little older group here. Hey Luke, great stuff as always, man. Thanks for joining us. Okay, have a good one guys. Thanks. Sportset.ca. CA. That’s the part that kind of worries you too, right? Where is this? Where where where are they in on the on the age scale? Well, where are they? I mean, their most important forwards are not old is old. Tvarus is old. Uh Tanov, of course, that’s your shutdown guy and really arguably your most important defenseman. Whereas he next year, let alone this year. Next year, McCabe is on the other side of 30, right? Oh, yeah. So, I we’re going to go into our national hour. Uh Rick Dolly Wall’s going to join us from Vancouver. Uh Rutherford’s on the record, man. Got to get younger. Mhm. Right. Leaf’s got to get younger. There’s only one way to do that. Yeah, but not yet. Just yet. Okay. Okay. Not just yet. Okay. Okay. Okay. Not just yet. So, anyways, yeah. No, no argument for me on that uh on that point. Just hang on. Just a little longer. We do have some Barubi on some of the other guys um on that decor. Uh Oel on McCabe on Benois. I think the most relevant one would be Benois. Ben conversation. Yeah. Uh I don’t know what number is that. Yeah. No, there there are you right now we use him as a shutdown pair for a lot of the game and um one Benny’s got to be physical and he’s got to be aggressive. That’s that’s where he disrupts the other team, right? Um it’s just being a little bit more on his toes for me and um just being strong and hard with the puck. You know, he doesn’t have to make great plays. He’s just got to get he’s got to make the easy play and make the right play. That’s what I see. Where is the Benois that um Kevin BX said somebody from Columbus last season? It was Utah. Was it Utah? Okay, thank you. Utah. Michael Kerling, I think. Where where is that guy? He has not been close to the same guy. No, last year um Benois led the team in hits. He was uh he averaged nine and a half per game. This year he had nine and a half hits per game. Sorry, per 60. So that’s like three and whatever. Um, but he averages two hits less per 60 this year, seven and a half. So, he is less physical statistically. Um, and I think we see that, right? It’s not as he’s not as imposing. I think it just comes with getting comfortable. Just you got like Oel doesn’t rub off on a few guys like even in Montreal. Like, God bless him. He’s trying. He’s trying to piss people off. He’s trying to draw a penalty. He did draw penalty first period, but he’s he’s the effort’s there to do it. Yeah. Right. Is that not the most surprising thing? Like there it felt like when they signed Oel, it was going to be like, oh, no, he was like that in Florida. They just couldn’t afford him. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, no, he he he won like that in Florida, right? It’s just such a good contract, you know, seeing him now like this, but you don’t need him playing 21 minutes per night like he is. No. I would say that his game has aged much differently than I thought it would. Right. Like after watching him in Phoenix, first of all, in Phoenix, he was paid amongst the top guys. He was like Quinn Quinn Hughes to to Phoenix, Arizona or whatever you called him now. Uh Utah now, but that’s what he was back then. He was their number one offensive defenseman. And so he learned an learned or just grew into an element of grit. And you know, I felt like I did as a person where eventually you just kind of go like you you know, you want some respect, you know, and and I was a top goal scorer. I I’m like, I want to play I want a hockey card, right? But I think I think a lot of that has to do with playing at Florida. What do you mean? No. Playing around those guys and seeing that. Yeah. Because they No, no, no, no. That’s all internal, but that’s just a a conscientious decision to go go down that road. I I don’t need I don’t need to watch someone else to do it and then I do it too. You got to You don’t think playing in Florida had a influence on his turning into what he’s turned into. But if if that’s the only way it comes out of me, it ain’t coming out of you at all. That’s fair. That’s fair. I just Yeah. I don’t remember him ever being like that until he played in Florida. So, and he’s the like honestly who can you name a second guy that can Well, that just authentically is like, you know, got some FU to him. Scott Lton has some sometimes. Y God, I would love for Steve Lorent to have some sometimes. He’s way too nice. Yeah. Very nice guy. McCabe. McCabe. Mabel. He got just got sleeping. End of list. Okay. Just whatever happens. Just like let’s see something in the first 10 minutes, right? Yeah. Well, the Columbus has no ma Matthew Olivier and you’re not seeing again seeing them again all year. You’re Boy, believe you called that a credit card. Go have your fun out there. They’re going to get such a nice first round pick for all of Ruckman Larson. It’s going to be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you How’s that going to make you feel better? Well, it might. So would you you know we’re going to we’re getting into Vancouver here basically putting up the for sale sign and doing whatever they can to get younger. Yep. Which includes in all probability Quinn Hughes out the door. Yeah. Sooner maybe even than later. You want to send that message to Toronto Maple Leaf fans? Yeah. You do. Eh. Um okay. You’re a little early on it. I’m not saying it’s the wrong call. I’m just saying, and Justin, you agree it’s way too early. It is too early. You maybe in Vancouver you can get away with it, but not here. Not mid November. Sometimes the best strikes are the preemptive strikes, boys. Okay. Painful. Our thanks to Luke Fox. And when we return, we go national. My trade board is out and live on sportsnet.ca. We’ve got some Vancouver stuff. So stick around. Rick Dollywal is up next. [Music] All right, we go national on the Real Kipper andborn show. We are live on Sportset Sports at 650 in Vancouver. Sportsnet 960 in Calgary and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available on Spotify, Apple Podcast and YouTube at your convenience. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet 365, Nick Hipel, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKe. In a few minutes, we’ll welcome in Rick Dollywal, co-host of Donnie and Dolly, the team on Czech television in Vancouver. Plenty news coming out of Vancouver. Uh today I launched uh my trade deadline board. Something that we did last year. We’re going to take another crack at it. Might be a little tougher with the races so close out of uh the quarter pole mark. Uh but Vancouver apparently is uh not being shy about this as Jimmy Rutherford’s gone on record on getting younger. Yeah, it sounds like they I mean Vancouver fans have heard it all today, but sounds like Rutherford and Vancouver went out there and sent a bulletin out to all the other teams and said something someone believes in the uh American Thanksgiving benchmark or barometer. Yeah. So, okay, we’re not very good. Who wants some of our older players? That’s interesting to me. So like it’ll fully would just be like an email to like all like email blast to 31 other the NHL Black Friday sale like hey guys we’re open send stuff in. Yeah. Saying we’re trying to get a little bit younger. Uh names that come to mind you obviously everyone’s going to talk about Quinn Hughes but Kefir Sherwood I think is on your board. Yeah he is. Guy lead the NHL in hits and on pace for 30 goals. I think would be the most attractive of them all right now in terms of you know we can talk about Petey and we will but Petey again back in absolutely oh yeah what and Connor Garland who hasn’t even started his new extension he’s having he’s playing 20 minutes a night this year he’s a good player good player you know it’s funny because you know Vancouver’s always been a tricky market we know that But easy for them to come out and just blast it while Calgary won’t do it still. They look like the making the mature decision here. Let’s let’s get some answers. All right, Rick. How are you, pal? Welcome aboard. How you doing, guys? How you doing, buddy? With with the Conucks off to a slow start, are we safe to say that you are the biggest star right now out of Vancouver? No. I’ll tell you one thing, Kipper. Last night, I’m I’m enjoying a nice glass of red wine. I’m watching Dine and all hell breaks loose thanks to Elliot Freeman. I called up Freeman last night. I tore a strip out of him. I I wanted a nice quiet evening. So Rick, this was um this had to have been the game plan right out of training camp that we are going to go to American Thanksgiving. We don’t like what we see. We’re punting. Well, is that they sent out a memo last night, guys? 31 teams and I don’t think they said the UFA players are available. I think they said veterans are available, but the guys that are available, guys, Sherwood, Kane, Bluger, and Forber, I was told this morning, um, now obviously they want to get younger. Kipper, I was told this morning that, uh, look, they got to get younger. They’re too old right now. Rutherford this morning said you can call it a rebuild if you want a retool or rebuild on the refly call it whatever you want. The bottom line is they’re 30th in the National Hockey League standings and dead last in the NHL goals against dead last in PK. Injuries galore. I I I’ll give them that. There’s been a lot of injuries but something had to change. They’ve lost six of their past seven. And you know, the one player I’ve heard kipper this morning that’s getting the most traction out of Vancouver is Sherwood. He’s a UFA. Um, leads the Conucks with 12 goals, second in the NHL in hits. He’s a UFA. There’s been no contract talks. There’s been no offers. That guy’s going to cost you. I think that number starts with a five. Yeah. And I don’t think the Canucks want to go there. Um, I do want to mention this. Conor Garland’s name has popped up, but I want to say I’m not 100% sure the Canucks want to move him. He’s great for the culture. Works his ass off. They could trade him, but I’m not 100% sold they’re going to do that. I think in a perfect world, they want to keep Connor, but this is going to be moving targets for the next two, three, four, five, six, seven weeks in Vancouver. Just moving targets. I I think that’s the best way to describe it. Okay, let let me let’s stay on uh Kefir Sherwood for a second here because I’ve got him um highlighted on my my trade board uh today on sportsnet.ca and no question coming out party last season and it’s followed up with a terrific start. Uh the the ask out of the Vancouver Conucks I think was $30 million to your point 5 million times six years. Vancouver cannot go down that path. Correct. Yes, you wish. Okay. And and Chipper, let me get this in because he plays for the M East. The Kucks are scared of another Dakota Joshua situation. And Dakota Joshua wanted to triple his salary in Vancouver and he did it. Kucks started their first offer at 2.5, I think, and ended up 3-2. That was not a great contract. Like it didn’t go smooth. And they’re kind of worried about another another Dakota Joshua contract. And so when you’re going to give a guy triple, double, triple his salary, there’s concern there. And that’s nothing to take away from Sherwood Kipper because he’s been great. Like I I He scores goals on breakaways. He scores goals with nice hands. He goes to dirty areas, scores dirty goals. The guy’s been great, right? But I think he has outpriced himself in Vancouver. Bottom line. JB, I’ll get you in here for a second. What is his value? Do you trade him as a top six guy? Like h how do how do teams perceive him proceed to to trade for him as a top six guy or a bottom six guy? He could end up scoring 25 30 goals this year. That’s it. I So what do you do? He he leads the team with 12 goals. He was third in the NHL in goals last week. Um the guy is scoring at a really good clip. He’s a good team player. Uh Vancouver’s number one draft pick Braden Coot said one of the guys that took him aside at training camp and really you know taught him the ropes was Sherwood. He’s a great character guy. There’s a lot to like here Kipper and born with Sherwood. He has put himself and his agent in a real good spot, you know, and but that’s a good question. Is he top six on a playoff team or is he bottom six on a playoff team? That’s a great great question and I I would love to see what other teams perceive him to be. So, what do you think the Canucks plan is in terms of all right, they got all these guys to trade. They could turn them into draft picks, but then they also have some pretty good core players right now. Would the plan be that to flip them in some sort of like turnaround and try to get different for next year or would it be a strip it down? Like, what is the the plan greater than just get younger? Well, let’s let’s You got a president here that’s not a young guy. He he doesn’t want to stick around for a rebuild. You got a you got a franchise defenseman, the best defenseman in the history of the Canucks and and you got to keep him happy. They’re they’re kind of stuck right now. Like if you go to the rebuild, you you can drive Quinn Youth to the airport the next day. Right now, they’re going to trade these guys and get young players. They’re not going to get better. When you trade veteran players for young players, you don’t get better, you get worse. So, how’s Quinn Hughes going to take that? The whole thing this year for me is is win for Quinn. Appease Quinn. Look, if this guy’s walks that we’ve never had a defenseman like this in the history of the franchise. You finally got one and he might walk. You he might walk. Like, I don’t know. Like, I They got to get to Quinn in December, I think. And they got to sit him down and say, “Hey, look, bud. What’s your What are you thinking on your future?” They got to get to him and his agent Pat person and they got to like Quinn Hughes is the number one story in this town and how do you keep him is got to be something that keeps this team awake management and the ownership up every night you for the first it took 50 years to get Quinton Hughes in this market and you’re going to let him walk after six seven years you know in a perfect world he comes back but he wants to win why would just based on this this whole thing about everybody available and getting younger like there is no possible way. It makes sense that he finds a way to stay here long term. I Kipper, nobody thinks he’s coming back. That’s what when you talk to hockey people then either then you’re going to move him now or this summer. Yeah, I I think the preference is this deadline. Uh, Kipper, look, he’s a great kid, but he wants to win. Elite kids want to win. They hate to lose, right? He hates he’s tired. He’s tired of losing, the drama in the city. He’s tired of four coaches in five years. He’s tired of all that stuff. It’s time, you know, the organization to show up. But they’re in 30th place. Like, how do you how do you go from 30 to 15 overnight? You can’t. And now they got to go to California without Lincoln and Deepo. They got their two American Hockey League goalies in California this week. Like it’s I don’t know. Like I I think they the the biggest thing is how do you keep Quinn Hughes? I don’t know how you do it. If the kid stays, he stays. But like you said, Kipper, they’re in 30th place. I don’t think they he’s doing cartwheels about that. Well, Sam, our Sammy feels a lot better about the Leafs after listening to you. Sammy Quinn ain’t coming to the Leafs. I I I I want to say one more thing. You might hear Tyler Myers name um when you talk about veterans, but I want to get this in because I think this is important. The Conucks may or may not try and move Me Myers, but I find it hard to believe that Meyers and his agent JP Barry will say yes to its rage. He’s got a no move. Meyers took less money on his last deal to have the comfort of having a no move for his family. He’s got a family in Colona. He’s got a house in Colona. Loves Vancouver. He he told JP Barry last contract, “Get the deal done in Vancouver.” He loves playing here, but players are taking less on contracts to get the no move, right? So, look, I JT Miller had a no move, but it got so bad that he said, “Hey, I’m out of here.” But that’s when a player gets the no move and takes less money, he doesn’t want to move. He wants to stay. He’s got a young family, the whole nine yards. But it’s G. The Conucks got a ton of guys with no moves. But it’s going to be interesting who do they go after for no moves. I mean, looking at the way this is all set up here. If Quinn Hughes is in fact someone they move at the deadline, you know, they they kept Patterson in the after the whole Miller fiasco last year. He’s 27 with some years left on his deal. Could they move both those guys in the same year? I I’m not hearing they want to move Person. I’m not hearing they want to move better. I’m uh I’m not hearing that. If they have to go into a rebuild, those are probably they’re pretty happy with Person the last few weeks because he’s turned it on and I don’t and and Brock just signed for seven. I’m not hearing that Besser and Patterson are two guys they want to move. Um now you you can’t strip it down and and have an American Hockey League team either guys. Hey, by the way, their American Hockey League team in Absburg has lost 15 to 16 and they’re 30 31st in the American Hockey League. That’s been how that’s kind of the season the Conucks have had. They’re in 30th and their farm team’s in 31st. Injuries have played a role. You got a new coach, you got a new system, you got all that. But, uh, it it’s been a tough go this year. But, I think what they did last night was they said, “We got to get younger. We’re going to move out some UFAS and we’re gonna, you know, we’re going to do a little bit of it that way and go from there and see what see what happens. Uh Demco’s going to travel with the team, but not expected to play. I think he’s going to join the team uh Kipper at some point on the trip. I don’t see him playing on the trip. Two weeks ago today, he got hurt against Winnipeg. It’s a groin, right? Growings are usually and you would know this both of you would know Groins you know for goalenders might be a week or two more than you know defenseman or forward and he’s a big guy but you know if it’s three or four weeks I you got to be p when it comes to Demco’s injuries I don’t care how long it is take your time don’t rush the guy don’t rush the guy because he’s got a new contract kicking in next year guys that is going to be for over $8 million a year the guy needs to stay healthy You know, the Americans are watching, right? You know, for Demco, you know, Hella Buck Aer, you know, Dort and Seattle’s been great. The Americans are loaded in goal, but I before he got hurt, I heard that Deco was 100% in the mix to make that USA team. And now we’ll see what happens when he gets back from his injury. You’re watching and listening to Rick Dollywal, co-host of Donnie and Dolly, the team on Czech television in Vancouver. So, as far as Demco’s future, the short-term deal, does that change anything about about possibly exploring whether or not, you know, he’s the goalie of the future or seeing what kind of values out there for him? Hey, the Canucks goalie of the future is in your backyard. Medvidev with the London Knights. That that kid’s going to be good. That was a great draft pick by the Canucks. Okay, so here’s the goalending. Demco is not going anywhere. What team right now Kipper has taken him with the injury history and Lankin has got a no move for two years, right? Lankin is not going anywhere for two years. They’re basically Deco and Lankin. You’re hoping the kid in London comes in probably he’s going to have to go to the American League, but they’re really high on him. He’s a really good goalender and but he’s the goalie of the future. But Kipper, what what team in the NHL right now is saying we’ll take Edmonton. Edmonton desperate enough. Yeah. Well, yeah, that’s a great point. That’s great. But do the Conucks want to trade him in the division? Good question. Space is an issue there. Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. That’s a tough one to pull off. Hey, I’ll tell you another one. The the the Oilers were in on Seops in the summer and the Conucks told Admonton that he’s going to the East and no thank you. we’re not putting him in the division. Right? So Edmonton was in on sea and the Canucks said no. Right. You you don’t want to trade a goalender who might become a number one guy in your division. He’ll haunt you forever. Yeah, that’s reasonable. Um wanted to get your thoughts on Evander Kane and what you’re hearing around him. Maybe he hasn’t produced to the level that people thought, but I see he’s playing 18 minutes a night. Where are the Canucks and what they’ve got out of Kane so far? He’s playing 18 minutes a night on the 30th place team board. Oh, that’s not good. Yeah, you know, but he he takes a lot of penalties. He drives the fan base here nuts with the penalties and it took him 18 19 games to get a goal. Look, he’s he he’s going to be moved here. He’s one of the guys that when the Canucks sent out the memo last night, uh he he’s one of the guys that’s going to get moved. There’s no question. Look, he was a stop oneear stop gap. They didn’t have anybody on the wings in the top six. They took a chance. And look, he’s getting up there in age. I think he’s got six goals in his last 40, 50 games, right? He’s getting He’s not a young buck anymore, right? He’s getting up there in age. The body and he went look what he went through last year in Edmonton, guys. He didn’t even play in the regular season, right? So, you know, the body he’s played a ton of Edmonton playoff games. You know, the body takes a beating year after year of all those long playoff runs. But, I think you’re going to see him move here, guys. I I think uh Kane’s going to be a guy they got they got a kid named Lair Mackey here. He’s in Abbottsburg first round pick. They got to find room for him, right? Yeah, they got to find room for him. So, um I I I just don’t see a long-term play for Kane in Vancouver at all. And Rick, what is uh what is all this news in the last 24 48 hours about a change of direction do in that Vancouver market? because there there were a lot of people optimistic that they can hang in there and and and push for a playoff spot and we’re watching uh Calgary Flames organization that’s scared to to to say like let’s go. We’re building for the future. We got to get younger. They won’t do that. How is it Vancouver’s able to do it so freely? Exact. I’ll tell you something right now, Kipper. People in this town are begging for a rebuild. Begging. You know what John Corderella told them? He said, “It’s stale. Rebuild.” Mike Gillis told them, “Rebuild.” And Ryan Caster said, “I’m out of here. Rebuild.” And then Trevor Lindon said, “Rebuild in 2017, but the owner believed in Tim Benning who said, “I’ll fix it in two years.” And he said, “No, I’m not going to rebuild.” We have an owner here that doesn’t want to rebuild. You got a president here that’s too old to do a rebuild. You have a star defenseman here who if you announce you’re going to do a rebuild is gone the same day driving to the airport. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, it’s uh Yeah, it’s tracking in a certain direction. Can I follow up one more? Yes, please. Okay. So, where does that leave Jimmy Rutherford and Patrick Alvine, Rick, in terms of Hey, yeah, I got all the trust in the world for you guys to do this and we’re all in on you. Is that the case or are people questioning whether or not these guys still have what it takes to to fix this? They’re getting heat in the market. You should come see our text line, Kipper. Don’t laugh. PR text. Fire Rutherford. Fire Elbine, but fire the owner. Okay. Text, you know, it’s they’re getting heat. They’re they’re getting heat. Uh um it’s been their fourth year here, guys. We’ve had one playoff. One playoff, right? And this year, their 30th. I don’t see the playoffs unless you guys do. Um you know, that’s going to be four out of the last five years is going to be no playoffs for Rutherford and Eline. That’s not good. It’s not good. They’re getting a lot of heat in the market. They’re getting a lot of heat in the market. There’s no there’s no there’s no denying it. No denying it. Kipper and Bourne, uh, every Look, this is Canada. This isn’t Carolina or Columbus. Um, this is an intelligent hockey fan base in Vancouver. Yeah, we got a lot of nut bars on Canucks Twitter, but you know what? It’s a fan base that cares and and they know their hockey and they want people held accountable for what looks like another tough year. So, is it unfair to be critical of Adam Foot if we believe that the GM and the president have left him with nothing to work with? Oh, no. I Adam Foot, come on guys. First year, we’re a few months into this. Um, look look at his salary and look at what they offer talking. What do they offer talking? Five times five. Foot got one five. I mean, you know, there’s a reason he’s there, right? I mean, give him time. One thing I like about Foot, um, he doesn’t throw his players under the bus like the young kids. He got in a little trouble yesterday defending the young kids. He doesn’t throw his guys under the bus. He doesn’t do any of that stuff. He He He has not had a complete roster all season long. Holander got hurt in training camp. He’s had one night he had nine guys out. He’s had seven guys from Absur in his lineup. Both of you go behind the bench and tell me if you can do better line. I I think he might be the perfect guy to have under this scenario with all his experience. That’s it. He’s lived through everything. Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. And you know what? The poor guy had nine guys missing one night. You know the Abbottzford, he has six, seven guys from AB. No American Hockey League team should have six or seven other guys in the NHL roster. There’s no way. No. No. That’s crazy. No way. It’s too much. Wow. Lots going on there. Dolly, you sound like you’re busy. That was like a tsunami of information out of Vancouver. Rick, thanks for doing this, pal. Hey, keep an eye on my boy Chris Tan. He’s my guy. I love him. His dad’s in Bart, but keep an eye on Chris. He’s a good guy. We know. Okay. We know. H sounds good. Thank you. All right, guys. Rick Dollywal. That’s good stuff. Yeah. Um I love that guy, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, he’s he’s basically saying that people are screaming for this, right? But you can’t you can’t scream for this and keep Quinn Hughes. I’m sorry. No, it’s one or the other. No. And that’s really It’s it’s sad, you know, like he said that they haven’t had a defenseman like this in 50 years or whatever. I don’t know that there’s been a defenseman like that in Canada over that time. We we did the before the show we were talking off the charts. We were saying he might be if is he the fifth best player in the NHL like McDavid McKinnon Maridle name a better player than Quinn. hard to go past the first four in Colorado and Edmonton and not pick Quinn Hughes. So, I’m looking at this and I’m going, okay, the NBA makes these trades where didn’t someone the Clippers trade like five first Oklahoma City traded five first rounders at some point. Uh there’s been a lot of them, but the Oklahoma City got Shay. They got Shay and they got a bunch of stuff when they got when Kawhai went to the Clippers and Paul George went to the Clippers. I got a bunch of different stuff. My point is, if you go to trade Quinn Hughes right now, what team in the league wouldn’t give up two first rounders plus for Quinn Hughes? That’s not the challenge. The challenge is does he want to go stay? Does he want to stay and sign an eight-year deal? But does he he has does he have no does he have trade protection on his So that’s the thing. But it’s irrelevant. Is it? Well, sure. Like I’m I’m not giving up two first picks and a blue chip prospect to watch him walk out the door. You’d have to do the Carolina Ranton thing where you trade for him, try to make it work, and if he doesn’t want to be there, then you’ve still got Quinn Hughes as an asset. Buddy, that’s nothing but a disaster waiting for you. It could be. Or you could sign Quinn Hughes. Oh, just like you said, just go and study that blueprint of Carolina to trade for a guy and then ask him later. It’s like Carolina made a horrific mistake without signing off from the agent and the player. Listen, we want you to stay. We’re not doing this so you can walk out the door. So, let us know now. Mhm. And they did it anyway. There’s a risk. They did, you know, and I don’t think right now they hate how that turned out for them. They got Stanovven, two first rounders, a third rounder. Like that’s better than what nature was for them. So I don’t know that they hate how it turned out. But they got to win now too. E they got to win now. That’s not those two first rounders are doing nothing for them to win the Stanley Cup in the next two years. Well, it’s assets they right. It depends what they turn those into. But this is the point with with Hughes is that there could be more than New Jersey sitting out there going, “All right, maybe we can talk this guy into it.” New Jersey has all three of their first round picks coming up, by the Now, now just think about New Jerseyy’s situation here. And I’ve I’ve got two of your brothers and I know you want to come here. I ain’t overspending cuz you’re just going to sign there anyway. But the Canucks, can I wait or Yeah. You know, I’d like to get you I’ll give you a fair deal, but I’m not blowing my brains out to get you now. Well, and I think there’s that probably creates a problem where it’s like if you bring Quinn Hughes in, you don’t want to have to give up all these assets because you want to win when he’s there. So, can you just wait the year and a half from now when he’s a UFA, but he’ll get traded somewhere else before that. So, how many first rounders does New Jersey have? Cuz I’ I’ I’d like three of them. Sure. Right. And I would give those for Quinnius if he’s going to sign for eight years. But I think that’s the the tough thing you’re talking about where if you’re Quinn Hughes, go to a team that has no first rounders. That doesn’t help us win a cup. But I mean, but you would if you’re New Jersey, give up all three of them. Yeah, I think not to. If he’s willing to wait, that could be the Stanley Cup right there. Can I do two and some prospects and something else? Three is a lot in the NA. Three first round picks. Take it or leave it. I am giving it all day long. Me, too. All day long. Knowing he’s going to resign. I think you do. Oh, yeah. Yep. If I can get him down for eight years, I’ll give you four. I don’t think you can do that. What are you? I don’t think that’s allowed. I think you can only do three in in advance. Are you serious? Yeah. Not a stupid. Well, they’re labeled three in advance. No, I think I think you can only do that. Like I mean the NBA 2032 first round picks are getting traded. The the other thing is that what’s a firstrounder of New Jerseys once they have Quinn Hughes? It’s they’re already a top team in the league. Like we’re looking at 27th, 8th, ninth picks. 26, 27, and 28. I would definitely do all three. I would do all three all day long. I mean, you’d be crazy not to. He’s unbelievable. But if you’re Canucks fans, three first sounds good. Three picks in the near 30th doesn’t sound great. Mid, you know, like I don’t know if that going to do it for me. Yeah. Can I get some team that has picks higher up the board? Then throw in a couple second rounders to make you feel better. Can I call, you know, who uh who’s in the tri-state area around there that could use him? Does does do the Rangers at their worst? Who’s worse that is around there? Philly. We could call the Islanders. Well, that’s that’s kind of what I’m thinkers. Yeah, they might have like the 15 16th pick. Yeah, because maybe he’ll settle for being around his brothers if not on the team. Game time. Game time. Uh it’s game time presented by B365. Visit the applied odds and see why it’s ever ordinary. Bet 365 team plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. One game tonight, boys. One stinking hockey. We’ll feature our Justin Bourne on uh fabulous. I will tell you everything you need to know. Um so it is the Dallas Stars are in Edmonton. Edmonton returns home from their long Eastern road trip. Uh I was trying to see here uh the as you would imagine the Oilers are faves in this game. Uh minus 135 on the money line. I was gonna see saves. Stu Skinner has historically been very good against the against the um Dallas Stars. He has actually owned them pretty hard in playoff series where he’s been much better than Jakeer. I’m taking a little shot tonight. Give me 25 plus saves for Stu Skinner at plus 165 tonight. That’s saves. He can give up five goals. 25 saves. 25 plus saves. And if you want to get even more aggressive, you can go 30 plus saves at plus 575. Tough to be a goalie for Edmonton. Slot shots allowed. They’re 27th. Stu Skinner has been uh really good against the against the the starters in his in his past. So that’s what I’m taking tonight for a little game time bet. I pretty much came out of the gate on my trade board with Bennington. I saw that for the Oilers. And Skinner would have to go the other way. I actually think Skinner’s a nice goalie to trade for. He’s ton of experience. He’s not that old. He’s pretty cheap. He’s a really good kind of gradea backup. Yeah. You don’t want him to be your starting goalie on a cup. Stolars to me are are are the highest endish. I think that’s totally bang on. Skinner from Stallers. Uh anyways, that was game time presented by Bet 365. Visit the app latest odds and see why is every ordinary bet 365 plus only. Please play responsibly. BS on the other side of break. Okay. Jason Bula Pro hockey sports net uh taking in the CHL prospects, right? Yeah. CHL versus uh the USHL. They play against each other now and he’s there for that. But there’s lots of top prospects. Lots of Canadian teams kind of suck. So yeah, good time to kind of start talking about this. We’ll talk about the Canadian standings before we get to him. Maybe. Yeah, we’ll ask him the your idea about the Leafs tanking to get Yeah. keep their fifth pick. Not tanking, soft resetting and hoping the lottery balls turn out correctly. All right, expert analysis. Jason Bula next when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet 365. Nick Gabriel’s Justin Bourne, Sammy McKe. A reminder, uh, Leaf alumni, this Friday I am playing in the Shores Fall Classic. Wow. At Scotia Bank Arena where the cast, many of them good hockey players, the Nolan brothers, um, will play your Toronto Maple Leafs alumni. I I will say one of my favorite things about Shores, and there’s a lot of things that I love about Shy, but the actual gameplay is the best any hockey. That’s pretty cool. Like it’s like it they’re all real hockey players, so they like they skate and they shoot and they look like real hockey guys. I love it. Yeah, we’re cooked. You guys are going to get rich. I’m cooked. I’m cooked. Hey. Yeah. You know, I love Rick on the show. Yeah. Yeah. Get him a camera stand. Okay. Please get him a camera stand. I don’t know whether to ask him about Quint Hughes or tell him to get cover because there’s an earthquake going on. Okay. Please. Hey, he’s kind enough to put in the time and hold the phone the whole time. He’s a worker. I I’ll see what we can do for next time we have the dolly wall on. All right. Cuz he’s an electric factory. All right. To a pure professional camera, Jason Bugala. There we go. Look at this guy. Steady. Look how steady that is. This This is as steady as it gets from the hotel room in Calgary. Truth be known to uh to nobody who’s listening or watching as I’m on right now. But uh the it’s on the ironing board here, Kipper. So I mean that’s that’s high tech here on the suite. You know, there’s a couple of creases in your jacket there. Maybe you have to go back to the board. That’s up next. It’s actually burning a hole in the back of my iPad right now. The iron. So we’ll get there. Get there. So So what is going on? We find you in Calgary, correct? For the CHL USA Prospects Challenge. Yes. Yes. Sammy and I are out here. We had a great day yesterday interviewing a lot of the top prospects. And to no surprise, just like the last couple of draft cycles, the kids coming through are really mature, really, really dialed in. And it’s refreshing because, as you guys know, a lot of these guys have never been in job interviews before or gotten in front of a lot of media before. And they’re a little nervous, right? They’re a little worked up and and every one of them were just right naturals. like they weren’t they weren’t school. They just were themselves. They didn’t pretend to be anything they weren’t. And I’m looking forward to the the game tonight in Calgary and then we’re heading over to Lethbridge tomorrow. So fingers crossed the weather’s good and we have two great games. And this is just completely covered from head to toe by every NHL team. Like this is a major major event for them to really start assessing which direction they want to go. Absolutely. And I think that this year, as everybody’s aware, and I’m sure you guys have talked about it a lot today on the show, and and we’re going to continue to talk a lot about it, there’s just so much momentum now in the Canadian markets, and and for myself and Sammy specifically, keeping a close eye on these kids, it matters a lot more to the Canadian team, fan base, if you will. Given the state of where hockey is in Canada for the first 25% of this season. So, um, everybody’s here. Jim Nil was uh Dallas is staying in our hotel. Sammy and I were out for a nice Italian dinner last night and uh Craig Conroy was in the same restaurant so we had a nice discussion with him. Obviously, it’s a home game for him. But no, all 32 teams are here. Most of them are at the practice this morning and uh it’s full of uh a lot of black tarps, a lot of scout cedos for sure. It it’s it’s crazy that you know last year five Canadian teams made playoffs. The sixth, you know, the Flames had 96 points and didn’t get in. this year. I mean, it it could be two, you know, and and you know, that may be generous to say. So, concerning times for sure. Why don’t you give us a bit of a sense of the draft board? Some movement at the very top right now. Sounds like McKenna not so much the sure lock he once was. Yeah, that that’s a fact. My draft ranking will come out after these two games. My first draft ranking of the year. Sam’s had a couple already. Katon Barhof has taken over the number one slot for me, guys. and the big right shot 6’4 212 pound right shot defenseman for North Dakota 17 years old born you play college hockey that’s a heavy lift right at that age for a young defenseman there’s no easy shifts for guys like that whether you’re defending against skilled guys or you’re defending against a horse in the four hole who weighs 210 pounds and he he’s 24 years old and um he’s been really good at NODAK he’s the number one guy on my list like I mentioned and complete player different than Matthew Schaer But uh for me personally, when we drafted Aaron Eklad back in the day for the Florida Panthers, Katon Barhof has got more upside than uh than Ek did in all the categories. I think Ek had more offensive upside and and he’s been kind of in and out with that throughout his career and had to learn to be a better defender as a pro and he’s obviously done that. But Katon Bearhoff right out of the box, he skates, he’s ranger, he’s big, he can piece a full length, he can lug the puck on his own, join as an extra layer, all this, all the sexy things, all the attributes that I would say uh you know, all I’m giving you reason why he’s number one. McKenna, it’s not that McKenna so much doesn’t deserve to be number one. if you want to go 1A 1B. It’s just that instead of I one thing that’s bothering me right now when I hear people talk about McKenna being at number two, they’re discounting Verhoff’s play a little bit. Instead of saying, well, how great the one guy is. It’s like, well, this guy’s falling to number two. Well, listen, being ranked second overall in the draft cycle at this time of year is still a feather in your cap. He’s got a lot of runway. He still could end up being number one. He’s dynamic offensively, but uh there’s there’s a lot of competition overseas. there’s a lot of competition. Iris Steenberg, but he’s playing in the in the SHL in Sweden. I think that he’s going to challenge even to go as high as two. I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody has him one on their list and um you’re going to get into a lot of defenseman and a lot of big forwards. I know that it’s kind of curious. The game is changing a little bit right now. There’s a lot of size coming back into the league. And Ryan Rubric from the Niagara Ice Dogs at 6’4, 215 pounds. and Ethan Belchez, the center from the Windsor Spitfires, is 65 a half, 228 fellas. So, yeah, big big bodies. There’s lots to like, lots to go around. You’re watching and listening to Jason Bula, Pro Hockey Group, Sportsnet, Pakia, and former NHL scouting director. So, I want to go back to Gavin McKenna for a second here. It was a contributing factor of him losing a number one status contributed to him leaving junior hockey early to go play college in the US. Uh well, first of all, there’s definitely a a wave of intrigue. It’s like a case study this year, I guess, is the best way I can put it to you guys with these junior guys that are coming down here and vice versa. By the way, there’s some American kids that are coming north of the border, but that had nothing to do with me slotting him in number two. What at this time of year, let’s say he played in Medicine Hat right now and I’m up here watching him play for Willie Desardan and the Medicine High Tigers and he’s running all over the ice sheet and he’s putting up an excessive amount of points again and you’re really intrigued by his offensive upside. The thing of a Kipper as you know is that you better have a Bame as you quickly start to approach the pro. So, um, Celibbrini, for example, when he graduated out of college hockey, you knew he was going to track up and down the ice, you knew he was going to be better than average with his compete level off the puck defensively. So, that is what I was starting to mind down on or would have been anyways with McKenna. And the fact of the matter is he would have been under the microscope that way. And that part of his game is what’s kind of slotted him for me where he is right now. He’s not as complete. He’s not as engaged in all facets of the game. And don’t get me wrong, I don’t need him to run over people. I just need him to be average plus average on the defensive side, be engaged, active stick, kill plays, whatever. I need him to do that and he hasn’t done enough of that so far. So, when you look around the draft, I don’t know if you guys if you do any sort of like tiering, just in terms of, you know, where you need to get to to get a good player, uh, looking at these Canadian teams who could be picking reasonably high, how high can you pick and still get a difference maker roughly in your estimation right now? 10. 12. High. Yeah, I at least 12. At least 12 for me. So, what you’re describing is I just call it a line in the sand. That’s what we used to describe it as in Florida. And what it is is it’s your cut off point where you are saying to yourself, am I drafting in this slot? Am I trading back or am I trading up depending on how much draft capital you have because of the fact that obviously the value of the player or it’s not that the value of the player falls off between 12 and 20, but they might all look the same and they might all, you know, the projection might look the same. So, you start to strategize that way. There’s some great players that are going to be I think all the way maybe down to the lottery now that I sit here and I’m just doing this off top of my head, but Chase Reed, Sus Marie Greyhounds, I think he’s gonna challenge to be a top four pick probably. Uh Carson Carrolls from from out here in the Western Hockey League is a farm boy like Brady Martin. Xavier Villanov from the Blaineville Wes Armada. Uh easy for me to say in the Quebec League is an absolute dynamo. He’s a Lane Hudson like I see in a lot of draft rocks. Well, actually, I think Sammy had him 17th on his list. He’s like right in around 12 or 13 or 14 right now for me. Imagine you’re going to get maybe a Lane Hudson light type of player in that range of this draft class. That’s how deep it goes. So, I’m suggesting to you that there’s great value and great opportunity, especially for a team. Look at Calgary. they’ve already got multiple purse and who knows what they’re going to do going forward here with the uh with the roster or if you look at the Vancouver Conucks or you know even the Toronto Maple Leafs who don’t have any draft capital but I don’t know what’s going to go on there and if they aren’t going to be a team I’d like to see them and I don’t want this to become a Toronto Maple Leaf thing but listen guys the covers are bare there’s nothing there so if you’re not if you are what you are and sooner or later you start to trade out hopefully an asset or two even it’s a high-end asset to get some really high-end draft capital back it has to enter into the conversation and be part of the strategy. And there’s lots to go around in this draft class. We just had Rick Dollywal uh on then we were discussing Vancouver. Would this draft um would a top three pick for sure uh maybe ease the decision on whether to get trade Quinn Hughes quicker than not? Well, I think that there’s a lot that will go into that basket for that decision making. It will it’ll ease the pain. It won’t ease the pain right out of the gate next year, but it’s it’ll ease the pain long term for sure. And Quinn Hughes is obviously a special talent. We all know that. Norris trophy type candidate probably for his entire career, but um what’s going on in Vancouver for me personally and and you guys would would likely agree and I’m sure Rick does as well is and they put it out there anyways. They’re they’re looking to I guess reset which is kind of curious. Get younger. Get younger. So, okay, get younger. And so if we just take that, uh, if you’re putting it on me, you’re my GM Kipper. How can we get younger? How can we still have a really strong trajectory? Absolutely. Top three picks in this draft are going to stabilize the top of your tier in a category, whether that be Vhoff, like I said, he won’t be like Quinn Hughes, he’ll be different, but he’ll be that big, strong 6.4 guy. Um, but even a guy like McKenna or the Stenberg kid who’s a play driver, he’s he’s in the top four of historical SHL scoring points per game average and and he’s the names that are surrounding him. Peter Forsber, the Sadines. I mean, this kid is a hell of a player. So, um, I don’t know that they would want to go back to the the Swede necessarily depending on what happens with Patterson. I’m spitballing here. I’m just strategizing in my mind. But, uh, yeah. No, they could reset things for sure. Not a terrible year then for a team like the Calgary Flames to say we’re going to do this. We’re actually going to go ahead and make some moves. Yeah. Yeah. And are they I guess is the question, isn’t it? It’s a Right. It’s an uncomfortable, you know, I walk in that circle that I’m a scout. So, when I see Connie at the restaurant and we’re chewing the fat or if I see some of these guys, I don’t really get into any of the uh the noise, if you will. And I do enjoy talking strategy and and players and and they know and he knows because he likes to scout. By the way, Craig Conroy, he was he was on the tour two weeks ago um at Clarkson watching Bearhoff live, you know, when NAK was in there. So, he gets out and he scouts and I think that’s a great thing. I had that experience with Dale Talon in the past. And when you have as many high-end picks as they’re potentially gonna have, they already have a full slate, and they’re obviously gonna add potentially more to that, that like I’m telling you, the Calgary Flames have a unique opportunity to add three or four players from this draft class at the high end that by the time they move into that new building, they’re going to be there. They’re going to be arriving in the National Hockey League. And you know the way it works, year one in a new building, it’s a shiny new toy. Everybody’s coming anyways, right? But in year two, they don’t want to just come to see the shiny new toy. They want the product to be really good. And so I believe that they could actually assemble that type of group going into year two, let’s say, in the new building that is really, really dynamic. Awesome stuff, pal. Really appreciate your time and your insight. Enjoy the game. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for having me on, guys. I’ll talk to you soon. All right. Thanks for your time, Boos. Appreciate it. Jason Bula does a awesome job for us on the Real Kipper and Bourne show and throughout Sportsnet uh analyzing some of these great young kids. I they’re awesome. I’m guessing but I’m guessing you don’t think that going to college is a good idea for a kid trying to get Well, he’s young. He was really young, right? 17 in college is crazy. But you’re you’re up against men, some of them 22, 23. even a junior like the majority of the guys are 19 but you know I think the idea is that should help you get better right you’re playing against better competition physically though it’s it’s it’s a challenge right and you can’t speed that up if you’re getting rattled a little bit yeah and I think it does depend on what your strengths are right like that guy you know McKenna doesn’t I know listen I’ve seen the kid play a handful of hockey games or whatever but doesn’t sound like he’s a big physical force so I want to get to this before uh we leave and I I’ll I’ll spin it back to you Sammy a little bit on the Toronto Maple Leafs. Like there’s a part of you that want the Leafs to tank, right? To lock in a top five pick this year. Big part of me. Yeah. Big part. Yeah. Okay. So, for that to happen, Uhhuh. they’d have to watch. How many How many teams How many teams will be underneath them from one to four for you? You know, you need lottery ball luck. That’s what you need. You need to be the sixth or seventh worst team in the league and hope that the god that you get a bounce. That’s what it’s going to be because you’re not going to be worse than Calgary. You’re not going to be worse than San Jose. No, not San Jose. San Jose is good now. So, you you don’t see them legitimately holding one of the wor top five worst seasons to get that pick locked. I mean, if they committed to it, they could do it pretty pretty easy, right? I don’t think it’ll be that easy. So, who’s if we were to just forecast here, what what is the order for you by the end of the year? Nashville last. Nashville last. Calgary second last. Second. Uh St. Louis, I think I think St. Louis is better than Vancouver. Okay. So, third worst, third last. I think Sabers will make their way down there. They’ll make their way down there. They always So, the Leafs have to uh win the lottery to get into a top five. Basically, you’re going to be the sixth or seventh worst team in the league and hope like hell you get into the top five. That’s what it’s going to be. I mean, if you’re going to tank, you gota you can’t be there. You if you’re going seven, man, you you got to go four. Yes, totally. You got to shut Matthews down. You got to shut T down. You got to shut your goalies down. You got That’s Don’t do that quite yet because we still have to do I loved his angle on Calgary, though. He’s so right. Like, watch what these kids can do in year two and three. Oh, yeah. And you’re like, “Oh, boy.” That gives you Calgary Flames should be so excited for that first second year in the new building. Oh, it was so fun. New building, the kids are coming. Like you’re you’re doing this whole thing. But if it’s like But it’s Rasmus Anderson. Yeah. You got to pay. You got to pay. 38-year-old Nazam Cadri. Yeah. It’s like just do the thing. No kids, you know? That’s the difference. Just do the thing. I I mean, I’m sure that Conroyy’s had the meetings with uh with Murray Edwards, but he needs to sit down again and be like, “Look, Conroy needs a new contract.” Have you noticed there’s a lot more noise about Craig Conroy needing a new contract? Yeah, I’m hearing it on every street corner. No, I for yelling for the rooftop. I didn’t know that was a thing. No, I So, is that why is more likely to be like, “Yes, sir. If we’re not rebuilding, then I’m happy to not rebuild.” Yeah. Whatever you want me to do. I think they like him. They should sign him. Yeah. You know, and have him continue marching down the path to getting Calgary back into contention, however long it may take. I believe that he’s a good GM, and I think they’ll they’ll figure it out. But yeah, they need they need to to go the right direction. So, he’s free to do the things I’m sure he knows they should be doing. 813 and three, six regulation wins in 24 tries. And this is after a three-game winning streak that they’re on right now. All right, just one game on tap. One that our Justin Bourne will cover on Sportsnet. Dallas and Edmonton. Give us a prediction. No ranting in tonight, right? Yeah. Bad boy. I I like Edmonton’s odds getting things figured out. Best home uh record winning percentage in the NHL. They’ve only played eight home games, so they’re at home tonight. Oil win. Oil win. Our thanks to Rick Dollywal and Jason Bula and Luke Fox. And Luke Fox. Yes, Luke. We’re not your father. Hey, go home and get some rest, man. You’re sneezing. You’re coughing. What is going on? Brought to you by Neocet. Listen, I’m I’m playing hurt. I like the least. Catherine. Fade away. Parting shot. Fade away jumper. Enjoy your one game tonight with my buddy Justin. And then we’re back tomorrow on Real Kipper and Born. [Music]
Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee take a look ahead to the Toronto Maple Leafs’ Wednesday night road game against the Columbus Blue Jackets and discuss whether or not the team should sell at the deadline. Sportsnet’s Luke Fox joins to talk about the Leafs recent practice schedule and the feeling around the team. Then, Rick Dhaliwal, co-host of Donnie and Dhali, comes on to chat about Kiefer Sherwood’s trade market and what the future looks like for Quinn Hughes in Vancouver. Later, Sportsnet’s Jason Bukala joins the show from the 2025 CHL USA Prospects Challenge to share why Gavin McKenna may not be the clear choice at number one in the 2026 draft.
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0:00 – Maple Leafs vs. Blue Jackets Lookahead
24:14 – Kyper’s Trade Board and Should the Leafs Sell?
31:21 – Luke Fox
52:01 – Rick Dhaliwal
1:21:03 – Jason Bukala
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Real Kyper & Bourne – November 25, 2025
#NHL #hockey #podcast
27 comments
Sabres fan here. Would any leafs fans be interested in making a trade like
Toronto receives: Owen Power, Josh Norris and jiri kulich
Buffalo receives: Auston Mathew’s and Brandon Carlo.
Toronto gets younger on the blue line with a former first overall pick that is extended long term and they also get a center that is younger and has shown he can produce at a 30+ goal pace and a young developing center, who has played first line minutes. While Buffalo gets a true #1 center to have a 1A/1B with Tage Thompson and a RD partner for dahlin so he can play on his left side
I grew up basically neighbors of Darryl Sittler and Ian Turnbull. My large family were all leafs fans as I was more of a Habs/Bruins guy. I could never understand from watching every Saturday night including my grandmother why they were all so delusional. I have been around long enough to see some highs and lows and everything in between like trading a young Steve Sullivan to Chicago to become a 50/year goal scorer. Almost 60 years later I'm passed the rubbernecking of a train wreck to being over the moon fascinated by the leafs and their fans and I equate it to being this is where the Twilight zone and the Bermuda triangle meet. And to think these guys get paid to discuss this stuff blows my mind. My latest takes are they should've inserted Pezzetta against Montreal for some actual toughness/emotional support in that Saturday game and I think the novelty of Domi playing for daddy's team has run it's course. I am a huge fan of the show…how could I not be!!!..lol.
That Canucks guy has a serious problem with the shakes LOL Has he ever heard of a tripod, he could even make his own.
It's simple practice makes practice.
The tail is wagging the dog… AGAIN!!!
I love Sammy because he is relatable.
Sell now 😂
Always find it hilarious hearing about the 'intelligent' fan bases in the Canadian markets – these same fans and media perennially overrate their teams, year in year out.
Not the McKee show
They should be the biggest sellers the window has firmly slammed shut
Quinn Hughes won’t resign in Vancouver 😂
1:37:55 you biased hosers! Stars coming to town. . .
NO SELL they have done it before and it did not work
BLUE JAYS WON
The catchers foot was off home plate clearly
Yes they should be sellers
This season is over. Another lost season. It reminds me of the year Babcock got fired and Keefe came in November only to miss the playoffs and lose to Columbus in the bubble.
You are so dumb Sam , sell them all out this is how you tank not being one of bottom 7-10 team and hope the get the top 5 pick you are not using your head although is not a guaranteed however your suggestion is close to impossible tank it immediately trade everyone out , keep the young ones I guess you said that because you are stupid enough to still believe they have chance to get in . If you tank you need to trade 34,88 too and I guarantee they will agree immediately
LOL > With the exception of a couple overpaid, underperforming non-tradable "Elite Skill Core" players, just WHO do the Laffs have to actually trade??
ND > WHY do you guys never address this key question!?? > Teams continue to keep specific player injuries a closely guarded secret, BUT are you seriously saying that opponents throughout the league don't already have a very good idea about what their true injury status actually is? Players, coaches, and national media analysts like yourselves really have no frickin' clue about specific player injury status behind the scenes?? OR is this yet another example of the "NHL Reporter's Code" to keep your mouths shut and play DUMB publicly because not doing so will result in far less insider "trusted access" to the players and team management you rely heavily on to line your pockets??!! Are you really telling viewers with a straight face that other teams have zero clue what those mysterious "upper / lower body injuries" logically entail?? IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE AND YOU GUYS DEFINITELY KNOW ALOT MORE THAN YOU "NON-REPORT" PUBLICLY!!:(
Toronto media and fans starting to run Matthews out of town just like Marner. You dont find 70 Goal scorers on trees. Leafs fans think they can trade him and there problems will be solved, delusional. Guys on pace with Ovechkins goal record and actually plays 200ft. Once the leafs trade him, say goodbye to the playoffs for the next decade. Hows this team looking without him right now?
Let’s talk about Treliving having some responsibility for the Leafs also. Now I understand Berube but this show has not mentioned Treliving that much. Treliving is no a first class GM. He’s a Junior “B” GM. MLSE should do better. IMO
DeBoer is a hot mess!
No DeBoer, no Laviolette, No Gallant, they are all has beens!!!
How come MLSE is crickets on the Leafs situation especially Pelley when they said we’re going to be involved???? Pelley is all talk a no action. Shanahan did a better job IMO!
Start now so they can keep their top 5 pick . They are aweful now and were bad with a full roster . But fire Treliving first.
Matthews clearly saving himself for the Olympics
My friends tell me that the Leafs suck.
Sammy is the perfect fan for this era of Leafs hockey 🏒
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