Sam Amick on what it may take for the Kings to move veterans & a look into GM Scott Perry’s process

Sam Amick on what it may take for the Kings to move veterans & a look into GM Scott Perry’s process

So, uh, absolutely. Yeah, we’ll take that all in. Sam, uh, great piece this week. You had a chance to talk to Scott Perry about the Kings and their kind of current status and and the status going forward there. There’s a lot to dive in, but I’m just going to start in a generality on the piece. Um, what was your as someone that was, you know, had the chance to talk to him, maybe your biggest takeaway from your your conversation with Scott? Well, I think probably the fact that even with, you know, his tone and the delivery and the way that he went back to certain messages, it’s that, you know, real obvious recognition that the thing that he’s asking for from the fans is not easy to ask for, which is, you know, there’s not going to be a quick fix, which is that it is unclear how long it might take. Um, you know, I think it was smart of him and the organization to, you know, it’s just life in general to look problems in the face and and acknowledge the frustration of the fans. And certainly, it’s funny the the the feedback I got from, you know, my actual circle as opposed to the old comment section was very different. The comment section thought that it was, you know, a lot of propaganda and a lot of empty uh empty words, but it seemed like it landed with a lot of fans. Uh but I think you know the frustration level had where they uh you know Scott knew that that something had to be done about it. But um the specifics are hard because what are you going to do? You’re going to sit there and talk about individual players and and how you see their market. You know it’s just a tricky slot to be in. Yeah. I you know when I first went through it too I thought that was interesting that you know and he does kind of have to he deserves patience whether the fan base can give it. I I mean, I get it. They’ve been through a lot of losing here, but the other part where he was very upfront with you about the autonomy part that he’s going to have his autonomy in doing this his way. I I thought that was interesting that he he made that a point of emphasis. What was your read on that? Oh, we lost Sam. We lost Sam in mid question. All right. So, he is in route. We are going to get him back. We promise you with Sam uh obviously writes for the athletic. He usually joins us each and every Thursday and it’s a it’s a central figure to a lot of NBA news what he’s able to do and how connected he is. And I think we got to get much more into this article because I I have several notes here that I have written down and questions that I want to ask Sam. So, we’re going to get back to this one. I know Chris is getting it back online and so I think we got Sam here. So, let’s uh Sam, we’re going to bring you back up. I was asking about the the fact that Scott openly told you about the autonomy part that he has that that’s something he’s going to have that that took me a little bit and not that I expected it to be different but the fact that he brought it up to you. What was your read on that? Yeah, I agree and sorry about the technical difficulties there buddy. Um I agree because you know the way you see it in the story is the way it was where it’s like all right we just get started um you know but not much has been said and then you know if you want to unpack kind of things that that it was clear that Scott wanted to make sure that he included like any of us if you’re having a kind of a meaningful conversation like that like unsolicited for him to to kind of tack on to his first collection of thoughts that, you know, and and I forget his exact phrasing, but it was like, you know, I think it should be noted that I that I’m going to have full autonomy here. Um again, let’s not forget that Scott spent three months here uh back in 2017 with Lotty Devats in the front office when you know he was well aware of the dynamics and and part of his job and really part of his value at that time was that he had done a better job than most of of navigating the VC factor when it comes to um ownership involvement and you know kind of lack of autonomy from the front office. So, it was a short three-month stint, but he he he knew all about the dynamics and and so yeah, I think I agree with you for him to to basically signal like if if I say nothing else in this interview, you know, that part is going to be shared with the fans that that uh that I promise you I am being allowed to run this thing. you know, in the two parts we’ve already discussed for Scott, whether it’s kind of wanting or requesting patience maybe from the fans and his uh, you know, belief that he’s going to have autonomy. Which one, I don’t know, is more important to his success? I I mean, I guess maybe the fans don’t have a direct impact, but maybe they do. Do you think patience is more important for him or the autonomy part is more important for his success? I mean, I would suppose the autonomy because nobody wants to not be given some, you know, leeway to do the job they were hired to do. Now, that’s not a guarantee that the moves he makes are going to work. It does though create a healthier system where, you know, if let’s just say that that for the sake of discussion, he’s able, you know, VC is able to deliver on this and can give Scott autonomy going forward, then the fans can can judge Scott on the moves that he made and the VC approved. Um the latter as far as the fan frustration, you know, that’s a VC issue. I don’t think, you know, Scott’s been here for five minutes, so to speak, right? Um you know, it’s funny because I don’t know this for a fact. It’s pure speculation, but if you ask me, you know, why do you think Scott chose to to talk on the record? Um when he did, think about the timing. It’s Saturday, you know, it’s it’s Friday night, Saturday afternoon, and then we talk Saturday afternoon, and they’re in Denver. They’ve lost eight in a row. You know, on paper, it looks like they’re about to lose nine in a row. And then you have a home game against Minnesota and a and a fairly lengthy home stand where the frustration of the fans was at a fever pitch. You know, I think honestly that component is a VC problem that, you know, if if they lost nine in a row and folks were in a different headsp space when the T- Wolves came to town, then, you know, then what’s the the the messaging from the fans in the arena? And and I think that’s that pressure is on the owner because of all the history with him, you know, as opposed to Scott just being hired to clean it up a few months ago. Yeah. Another piece that you asked I thought was a good question was kind of where they are and this was again on the heels of this eightgame losing streak. They’ve won two in a row. Not sure if that’s going to continue or you know go back and forth here. This team is has certainly struggled to be at uh where they are now. But you asked about playing the vets versus trying to get in some of the the younger guys. Um, I I think Doug’s trying to get a little bit of both, but it’s still primarily a vet oriented team. Do you think any of that will change or could change, Sam, without a trade? Because I feel like trades will lead to that. I think that’ll unblock some things and and make it a little easier. But if they don’t, it still has a roster of of some pretty decent veteran players that probably will get the majority of the minutes. What do you think about kind of that conundrum they’re in a little bit right now? Well, I mean I don’t and tell me without having the roster right in front of me like who are the candidates for who are being blocked the most by the vets from a developmental standpoint and like before you answer it’s like I the Sabonis injury actually you know opens up obviously a lot of time for Maxine Renard and and he’s one of the few players you know I think it’s worth saying like Scott only highlighted a few certain players you know on the record in our discussion you you don’t need to it’s not hard to connect dots how he sees their roster. So, you know, Maxine’s getting playing time. Nick Clifford, um, you know, has got to be developed. Um, you know, from there, I mean, a lot of folks wished I would have asked Scott about Keon Ellis, and that’s fair because I know he’s a a fan favorite. I think I, you know, part of me is is tricky when you’re talking to the GM about coaches decisions, and, you know, the front office plays a role there. But um I think that you know that messaging from Scott at at time reflects also the reality of the situation with the vets which is like if you’re going to roll over which they were doing at the time then sure we’ll find a bunch of other options because I think that was the frustration on that road trip was I mean you had Zack Lavine playing like Jacqueline Hyde you had Demar playing like Jacqueline Hyde um to the point where, you know, I mean, some folks are looking at box scores and going, “Okay, is is this a quiet protest? Like, why are you not shooting?” You know, it’s that energy was pretty bad. And uh but if they’re going to play like they did, you know, did the last couple days, that’s a a different story. Yeah. And I want to ask you about development from that the other uh was the last game. It was a great game, great comeback to beat Minnesota. They played really well. They got the victory. But I thought the the takeaway I had, Sam, at the conclusion of the game was the postgame where Demar D Rozan uh went out of his way to basically say this is Keegan Murray’s team. He means everything to the team. And that’s a clip I had not heard. I’d not heard anybody else say it. Now, uh contractwise and and where he signed, that would lead that to be that. But um for a team that’s filled with veterans and prideful veterans and guys that’ll be in the Hall of Fame later, um that surprised me a bit. Where do you think um what did you think about that statement and and do you agree with it being Keegan’s team going forward? Honestly, Jay, I I kind of loved it. Um and now I’m going to sound like the the hype man looking for silver linings for Kings fans. That’s a big deal because when the King, you know, when Scott and his staff looked at Keegan’s situation and had to spend really months um figuring out what kind of number to give him extension wise and you know, I think we talked back at the time that it started in the Jabari Smith territory which was like five for 120 and then eventually gets to I think five for 143. you know, that extension was pretty significantly criticized around the league just as being too rich. And the King’s Calculus that was a I think like a makeorb breakak component of the deal is is like with Keegan, it’s like, all right, you’ve shown some potential at times that maybe you could be a number one or a number two option on a good team. But when all these vets came to town, he was pretty passive and it was like, you know, I get it human nature-wise. You look around and see guys who might wind up in the Hall of Fame and you’re not aggressive. Um, I give Keegan credit and I think he needs to continue down this road. Like literally if if he can have a level up this season and if he can realize that that extension literally means that he is he’s far and away the like the only player on his team who can say that, you know, I’ve been established as as part of the future here. Um, if I can live up to that. I mean, that’s the thing is if he’s going to be a three or four option on that contract, then it’s going to be I mean, honestly, that that will be a miss for Scott and his staff. Uh, that’s not three and four option money. And so, um, Keegan showing some of his potential in the way that he has and his teammates supporting it in the way they have is a pretty big development to me. talking with Sam Aik from the Athletic just recently earlier this week released a a conversation and some points that you had with Scott Perry. Some other takeaways for me Sam in that conversation you you did address with him about kind of the the desire to eventually move on from some of the the veterans that they have some of the bigger contracts and and you know Demar’s mentioned Sabonis Zack Lavine. One of the things that I found interesting too was was Zach was brought up was um you didn’t have clarity on on maybe from Zach’s camp whether or not they would be interested in opting out. Most people would look at that and go there’s no way he would. But maybe there is a way when players could kind of choose their next fate. There might be some money this summer. as we get closer and closer on that. I mean, we’re not there yet, but what’s your gut telling you about what Zach’s camp might think about u that extra year he has left on his contract? Yeah, I mean, I guess the middle u the messaging was that it was too early. Um, you know, at face value, like you said, Jay, it has seemed crazy that he would think about opting out, but I mean, I don’t have his age in front of me. Do we remember exactly how old Zach is at this point? He’s 30 and he’ll be 31 in this at the end of this season. So, um yeah, and if he finished the whole deal, he’d be 32. Um when that that last year expires. Yeah. I mean, it’s a lot of money. It’s not as much money as it used to be. uh when it comes to today’s NBA, it’s still a ton of money. But I think the question there is that if it was a, you know, toxic, non-winning, non-enjoyable environment for Zack uh all the way through this season. Um and let’s just say worst case scenario, they they prioritize the young guys. I mean, for all we know, I mean, Zach, let’s say Zach’s on the shelf, you know, like u then then just from what do you want out of your career standpoint, I don’t think you want to spend your, you know, year 31 going into year 32 as a guy who is is one of the better bucketters in the league and and enjoys playing the game and averaging 20 plus points. Um, having to basically put all of that on hold just for the sake of again not nothing at all. um you know, so still would be surprised if he opted out, but um you know, nobody’s saying that that is as much of a no-brainer as we might have thought. Yeah. And without knowing what potential uh deals could be out there, just your your again back to your gut feeling, would would the Kings in this situation specifically with Zack be better off if he opted out in a sense like that contract would leave the team or trying to deal him and get something, you know, contractwise back in return? That’s a lot of money coming back. Yeah, that’s the issue is that um and admittedly I had to I had to clean up some of the the draft reporting that I had in that piece. I had it wrong initially um about what they have left from the Fox trade and and other stuff they have. So the issue is like if you’re if you’re getting off that Zack Leavine contract, then you’re you’re giving up some of the draft capital that that you know the previous front office got in the Fox trade or just your other stuff. And that’s where it gets hard for Scott is that you that is a that is being put into a tough corner is that you have a bunch of money that people don’t have interest in. The only way to get rid of that money a lot of times is to is to give up the very things that you need to rebuild this team. Um so you know that’s where I don’t envy the position they’re in because it’s one thing to kind of signal like they are that this is potentially a full rebuild. Um, but you know, we say it all the time, it takes two to tango. And that’s where if you make a couple wrong moves and you look up and you have a clean cap sheet with no picks, then that’s not necessarily better than where you were before. So, you know, they’re going to have to tread lightly here. Sam, you also mentioned in your piece D Rozan, I think even the team was listed there. The Clippers have shown some interest and I got to believe a lot of teams would be interested in Demar. still a still a bucket getter, still a veteran that’s uh been a good teammate and knows how to win, that kind of thing. I I believe there’d be a good market for him. Where do you think they stand with with Demar D Rozan and and teams with interest in in what he could provide? Yeah, I mean, I don’t have beyond the Clippers interest, which is, you know, again, that that fits right into what we just talked about. like the sense I got there was legitimate interest in him, you know, kind of filling that role that that they thought Bradley Beal was going to fill and and obviously Brad is now done for the year. Um, and that sounds all well and good, but that that, you know, they had not intended on uh having money added beyond this season. Now, Demar’s got 10 million guaranteed for next year. But if they were going to take them on with the Clippers, then you know, presumably you you want him for next year as well, which is at 25 million. So, if you’re taking on that kind of money, guess what? I know I’m a broken record, but they’re going to ask for a pick of some kind. Um, and and that’s where the Kings don’t want to do that. So, um, there’s not easy answers with any of this stuff here. The other thing, and this speaks to what we talked about a second ago regarding playing time and who gets prioritized, you know, they they need these vets to show out to some extent to create market because, you know, Sabonis in particular, you know, with him being hurt, you know, that’s I actually I don’t know, this is just me talking. I think Demanis is like, you know, he’s a known commodity and if you want to build your offense around him and you’re and you’re interested in that, then I think you should feel pretty confident that that’s the guy you’re getting if you if you looked at him right now. And and obviously just wait for him to get healthy with this injury, which is not a it’s not a devastating injury, right? Um but the Zack with Zack and Nar, I think teams need to see more. They need to see where their game is at uh and and and get excited about that before being willing to to really do something with them. Yeah. And one one last kind of player one related to your piece. You mentioned and when I talked earlier about maybe a few guys being blocked, I think one is is Keon and there that’s more of they just have so many guards and you’re playing Russ and Shruder and Dear and Zack and Malik and um I get I get why they’re all playing. So Keon’s kind of lost in the numbers game. You did say that he’s a guy that teams would be interested in. I I think the Kings are probably interested in too. What do you think about the future of of Keon Ellis? I think honestly um he feels very much like somebody who if they’re going to do one of these deals and and avoid giving up draft assets, you know, putting Keon in a deal is is one way that you can do that. And I think it’s not anything against the way they see him. I have sensed for sure though a feeling that that he’s a he’s an impact player, two-way guy, obviously a fan favorite, but there is a reticence to, you know, and I’m sure they have a sense of what Keon envisions for himself on the market. There’s a reticence to, you know, to do something with him beyond this season. you know, I don’t know what what their number is, but I think they definitely know that like for that type of a player, you don’t want the number to be too exorbitant. So, and it feels like that one is headed towards, and this is, you know, again, we’ll see where the season goes, but towards, you know, a likely call it a divorce or not a long-term relationship. Um, it just feels like they’ll probably, you know, take a bunch of calls on Keon and and uh and and potentially use him to get where they want to go roster building wise, you know. And the other part about this is you also have to do leaguewide evaluating like the team as as much as Scott Perry told you, look, this is an evaluation process of of Doug, of their roster, but then you, you know, you get 15, 18, 20 games into the season and see what’s going on across the league. for example, a team like Milwaukee who’s really struggling. Uh some other team, the Clippers who are really struggling. It’ll be interesting to see which teams kind of change course and how quickly maybe either panic buttons are hit or just, hey, we’ve got to re re kind of tool this whole thing. Is there any sense on any teams in general, Sam, that might be going, look, we got to change our course here pretty quickly. I mean, a little bit. And I actually think that there’s a Kings component to that discussion because you know you you either are patient I mean and really I felt like Scott was asking for you know three four years from the fans in our conversation but so you’re either patient and you go you know you strip it down and build with young guys or what I am curious about is because I think there are going to be a number of teams putting pretty high-profile guys on the market potentially. U I think the Kings are going to be 10. This is again just me talking. I think they’re going to be tempted to like shortcuts are going to be available for a fair amount of teams in the NBA potentially. And I’m talking about, you know, and these are all like none of these have developed all the way just yet. But is Javarant gonna eventually become available? Is Trey Young going to be available? Is Lamelo Ball going to be available? Is Anthony Davis going to be available? You know, now AD would probably should terrify Kingston. like I don’t think adding a 35year-old is the way you’re trying to go, right? Um but all of those other names are dynamic, you know, box office type talents that who are in pretty uh kind of distressed situations right now. You know, Trey’s is interesting because the Hawks just have shown an ability to have an identity and and be pretty good without him. Um, so that’s where you wonder, I mean, honestly, to go full circle with this conversation, Jay, that’s where history tells me that at some point might come kind of bounding into the room and say, you know, I don’t know, what do you think about this shiny object? And and uh and that’s where the autonomy question is going to come in is does he uh does he let them do what they want to do and what they think is prudent or does he, you know, kind of put his foot on the scale? Well, I guess we all have to wait and see. I mean, that’s the real time. We’ll find this all out together. Sam, always appreciate you being available for us. I know you moved up a day. We appreciate that. We always love your work and I hope you have a safe drive and a and a great Thanksgiving and we’ll see you out of game soon and talk to you next week. Thank you, Jay. Appreciate it. Happy Thanksgiving, brother. All right. Thank you. That is the great Sam Amik. A lot of info in there. I hope you guys enjoyed that. We tried to get as much as we could with Sam and he’s always uh on the uh on the pulse here of things all leaguewide, but there’s a lot of stuff going on with the Kings and I think that’s important to continue to monitor them to monitor the other teams and look there’s a lot of teams like he said that could be moving on from players and I just hope the Kings again kind of stay the course that they’re talking about. Like if the if the right move is is there do it. you I mean you need to be patient, you need to be smart, but I think everything my my own opinion is to either get to check these boxes to either get younger financial freedom, more draft picks in the future, and if it helps you along the way, I’m not I’m not anti- getting wins. I’m okay with this team winning more, but not to do it in a way where the shortcut is the good word. No shortcuts. Uh don’t go, “Oh, this veteran will help us get two spots higher.” If it makes financial sense, that got you another pick, that checks those other boxes, yes. But not to shortcut it and think, uh, let’s just make one more run with this group. It it just it feels like it needs the right building. And, uh, I think they can do it. I think they can. We’ll see if they do it. All right, we’ll take the break here. When we come back, we still

The Athletic’s Sam Amick joined The Carmichael Dave Show with Jason Ross on Thursday to share his main takeaways from his conversation with Sacramento Kings general manager Scott Perry, lay out what Perry may have to do in order to move the sizable veteran contracts on the roster, and much more.

Plus, what does the future hold for Sacramento and guard Keon Ellis?

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