ALL IN FOR QUINN? McLELLAN FED UP & RED WINGS NEED HELP – Winged Wheel Podcast – Nov. 27th, 2025

ALL IN FOR QUINN? McLELLAN FED UP & RED WINGS NEED HELP – Winged Wheel Podcast – Nov. 27th, 2025

Welcome to the Wing Wheel Podcast, the number one source for news, analysis, and discussion on the Detroit Red Wings, the NHL, and all things hockey. Here are your hosts, Ryan Hannah, Brad Krisco, and Evan Lopsinger. Brad, I want you to tell the listeners and the viewers what you turned around and said to me before the puck dropped yesterday at the the Nashville game. I’m not even going to give you any more context than that cuz we’re both thinking the same thing right now. Are you ready for the Red Wings to make this guy look like a Vzna candidate? That one. Oh, was it a Nashville goalie stat? Eustus Anin did not have a win this year. His save percentage would have made John Gibson look like John Gibson 10 years ago. was having an atrocious season and Brad just turned he actually Brad didn’t even say anything at first. He just turned around and just gave me this like knowing smile like painful smile like we all knew what was going to happen. Bet the under well the Red Wings goal scored under. They scored on him too. It wasn’t even the the problem, but that like the jersey game was, you know, one of those losses where you’re like, “Yeah, I’m I’m happy with that.” As as much as you can be with a loss. Like it was a good performance. You run that game back, you know, 10 more times, they’ll win probably eight of them. That Nashville game was like, “Wow, there are a lot of bad hockey players on this professional hockey team still.” Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Saw a lot of turkeys last night. as hot as God. Hey, the gravy belts are sweet. Yes. Goes to show how out of sorts we are right now. We didn’t even put one on this set. We’ll grab one at the break and and put it on there. All right, let’s do it. Folks, welcome to the Wingville podcast. Here to talk to you about all things Detroit Red Wings hockey, the world of the NHL, and lots more. I’m one of your hosts on this Thanksgiving episode, Ryan Hannah. I’m Brad Krisco. And I’m Evan. This episode of the Wheel Podcast is brought to you by Greenlight Lending. If you currently own a home and need to save on the monthly payment. Or if you’re considering buying a home and don’t know where to start, reach out to our friend of the podcast and fellow listener Nick with Greenlight Lending. They offer no closing cost options and a range of unique products to help you in any situation. NMLS 267-6683, an equal housing opportunity lender licensed in Michigan and Virginia. Give Nick a call at 586 321-188. On this episode of the Wind Podcast, oh man, it explains itself. We’re going to be talking about the jersey game. We’re going to be talking about the Nashville game. We’re going to be talking about what the hell is wrong with the Red Wings right now. And then we’ll be getting into some other stuff from around the league. I think we’re going to be leaning more into that Quinn Hughes conversation, some conversation about Todd Mlullen’s comments. It’s going to be a little bit more of a free flowing episode. I’m not going to lie to you, the notes aren’t so fleshed out cuz everything’s just kind of emotional, you know? Yeah. Just going to let it go. When Evan is calling an episode emotional, you know, you’re either in for a fivestar or we’re deleting this podcast from our phones episode. Just wait until it’s festivist and we can do airing of grievances. We do that mostly. Seven hour episode. Yeah, we we do that. It’s called the Winged Wheel podcast. Well, I’m going to start doing it. Oh, famously positive Evan Lob. I just watched the Red Wings give up five goals in a period to the Nashville Predators. Oh my god. for a corpse of a franchise. Eustace Anin, raise your hand if you knew Eustus Anin was on the Nashville Predators. You are lying. All right, before we get into it, very quickly, patreon.com/wingpodcast if you want to support the show. You get access to benefits like our bonus overtime episodes, which record right after these main ones. We let loose, we have fun. You get an even more animated Evan Lobinger. You also get access to our Patreon exclusive Discord. And you’re automatically entered into all of our giveaways. We give away two tickets to every Detroit Red Wings home game directly to our Patreon supporters. Yesterday was our one of the games we do where we bring some of our longest standing top contributing patrons to a Detroit Red Wings game to hang out in a kind of smaller group with us as the hosts. And we’re going to have more information on that as well. We we got some footage and stuff to show off what we offer for patrons as our way of saying thanks. So again, patreon.com/wingedwheelodcast. All right, let’s start with a little bit of positive, if you can say that. We’re still talking about a loss, but the New Jersey Devils game was an interesting game for the Red Wings. 4-3 loss in the end. I think they were the better team. And let’s just get ahead of it here. There’s three things that I think did Detroit in. Travis Hamnick had his worst game since the home opener. Jacob Marstrom played like Jacob Marstrom in a contract year. Yeah, he played like Eustus Aninan. He did really primed. He’s in his prime right now. And then third, but in retrospect after looking at the whole balance of the game, this is a third place for me is I think some critical calls were missed by the refs. Although they were pretty bad all over the ice. But all in all, I mean, the Red Wings have to walk away. Most of them feeling pretty okay with their effort that game. I’m well past the point of moral victories because Oh, Brad. Oh, Brad. I know. You’re going to have a long year. Yes. If you have to claim one, this is a game where you can claim one. I like their fight. I like their snarl. I like their effort. execution could have been better, but as we’ll talk about with the Nashville game, with certain players on the ice, there’s only so much you can do. So, as long as the effort and you know, the bite is good, you can get by. And in that game, it was to an extent. Only so much you can do when Travis on the ice. Yeah. Again, I think you summed up right. The refs sucked. Marshmall was good. Two horrific giveaways and other than that the Red Wings comfortably should have walked away with that game. We should talk about the physicality of the game. JT Conffer opens the game with a pretty cut and dry boarding against Nikicohishir. Nikicohishir seems banged up. You look at the replay. Initially, I think the the radio commentary, there’s some commentary that was like, “Oh, this could be a major.” And then you saw the replay, you’re like, “No, no, that’s, you know, just a boarding call. It is what it is.” New Jersey was justifiably pissed. The same way I would want the Red Wings to be pissed if that happened against Larkin right off the hop. Confer went to the box. Red Wings killed the penalty. He came out of the box, had a breakaway opportunity, didn’t score, and immediately answered the bell. Stephan Nason, you know, wanted the fight. The refs were trying to break it up. You could see JT Coner saying like, “No, let him go.” And the ref gave him a little tap to say, you know, good on you. And they let him go a while, a long time. JT Conffer answered the bell. That’s the hockey code. If you want to know what the hockey code is, exactly how that played out. A guy did something that the team felt was borderline. It wasn’t a clean hit. He got penalized, but they still wanted their pound of flesh. Confer had to immediately go back to the box for a 5minute fighting major. If it was his choice, he wouldn’t have done it. But he knew what he had to do. He knew the moment he was going to the box that when he was out, he was going to have to scrap. That’s what happened. In my mind, that is a settled matter. I’m not saying New Jersey has to, you know, send him flowers and be thrilled with him after, but that’s where you you think the cheap shots and things would end. And the game was like chippy after that, but I don’t think it was over the line for a good while. Like, you know, scrums in front and things like that after one of the goals. It was who was it? Larkin and Finny both shoved Devils players cuz they were just hanging around there and it was just like friendly little shves. And there’s it was it was a good hockey game. Mickey Redmond was smiling watching that game. you know, he was. And then there was the Jonas Seganthaler just like blindside interference. Puck was nowhere near either of them on Lucas Raymond skating, you know, slowly through the neutral zone and then just like cuts in and levels Raymond shakes him up. If you’ve ever taken a hit like that, it’s not just about the strength of the hit, which, you know, Seanthaler was intentionally rage baiting in his his media after the game. It was It’s If you’re not braced for that, those ones hurt. Yeah, they hurt. The wind gets knocked out of you. Your bells rung cuz you’re not really bracing. So, your head’s rolling all over the place like you’re a a bobblehead. Like, it’s I’m not saying he could have killed him, but they hurt. Definitely. And the Red Wings are justifiably pissed. The rest that was a terrible, terrible missed call. God awful. It was only afterwards that I realized why New Jersey was a little bit more mad. And Ben Sherro, who I unironically love, Ben Sherro, man. Like, I saw this and it was one of those, okay, yeah, I understand. There’s a scrum and Ben Sherro, like he was sheathing his sword, pulls a stick all the way out and just like jams it into like Napoleon after a conquest. And I was like, what was he getting there? And then you see Simon Neing literally stabbed a man. He’s been listening to many of the episodes where I’m like Chris Pronger had a knife in his pants. He’s like, “You know what? You can do that.” Yeah, that was hilarious. Confirmed listen to the podcast. He got a $5,000 fine for that one. I’m like, “Yeah, stand worth.” It was another one of those things. And like I I didn’t see it on the broadcast. I don’t know if I missed her or whatever. And even the devil’s broadcast didn’t show it until after the Seanthor blind side cuz they were like just to explain why this is happening. But people were confused. They thought that happened in the ensuing scrum. But that’s a little bit why the devils were like that’s what you get. And I do think it’s you still don’t want to see that blindside hit on Raymond, but I’m like you you understand why the game got to the level it did. Yeah. You kind of want to blame the refs for it a little bit cuz sometimes if a penalty gets called and the team scores on the power play, okay, all is well. We’re not that mad anymore. But I think on that one I I think it was going to go how it was going to go after that no matter the outcome. Now don’t get me wrong, I think I want someone to run at Seanthaler next game. Like I’m I’m sorry. I know this is how these things escalate, but if you’re going to go after Lucas Raymond with a blind side like that instead of, you know, asking Ben Sherro to answer the bell, that’s what should happen next. I think the Red Wings were right to not go after Seanthaler in that moment. It was late in the game and they were trying to to tie it and they very nearly did. But I mean that was a cheap shot, but when you saw that replay is so funny. It’s hysterical in slow motion. The first frame you’re like, “Oh my god, I know exactly what he’s going to do here.” Yes. You just see Simon Ne just get absolutely buttended or speared, whatever you want to call it. Oh my god. It’s a move right out of Evans in middle hockey days. Yes. Yeah, it is actually. So, it’s Ben Sherro’s physicality. Like, he has that nasty streak that we’ve been saying the Red Wings are missing. And it’s not like it’s brand new this year, but oh my god, like even last night throwing hits all over the place. Some of them clean, some of them definitely dirty. I’m like, good, good. I’m a big fan of Ben Shrot’s game this year. Is it perfect? No. But if you’re expecting perfect from Ben Shrot, I need you to to go outside, take a lap. Yeah. Because you’re But like he is adding the the kind of snarl and character and piss and vinegar that this team needs and pisses off the other team. I get that it’s going to make some unsavory things happen on the ice, but god, at least there’s some fire. So I’m not mad at Ben Shrod at all. If and there’s a lot of hypocrisy here because if anyone pulled that butt end and they got like Simon Edson, I’d be like if that was Jamie Ben who did that. Yeah. This podcast would start a a revolution 100%. Like we’re Napoleon after conquest. Detroit doesn’t get it done. They can’t score to to tie it at the end. But again, it was a good effort overall. I’m not mad at that that loss. It’s like there’s there’s things they had to work on. Like I know Mlullen was talking about the Netfront game and things like that, but in all it was a much more composed game, especially on the road, too. And you you take out the few shining red flags that are shaped like Travis Hamnick and a couple other plays. That’s going to be a winning combination more times than not. Now, important to note, Simon Edmonson didn’t play in that game. Still out with a pretty nasty flu or whatever bug is going around the league. And what’s unfortunate is he didn’t play in the next game either against Nashville. Back at the LCA, it was Gravyboat night and Travis Hamick in, Gustoson in, JBD out, Rasmusen out, and it was just that effort wasn’t there. like the the same kind of composure, the same kind of offensive acuity, the same kind of sense of that this can be a good hockey team was not there at home against Nashville, who is terrible. They suck. They have a culture issue. Hey, Evan, I have a stat for you. Oh god. Before last night, there was only one team in the league to not score five goals yet this season. Let me guess. Did their starting goalie also not have a win? You would be correct, Evan. Oh no, they scored five in a period. Oh my god. Losing going into a period losing before last night. Evan, 30 of 32 teams had scored five goals at least twice. Seattle was the only other one other than Nashville who had done it. Aren’t they just lucky that they get to roll into Detroit and fix what hils them? I don’t know if I’ve been saying this on the Potter just to you guys off air, but this team painfully plays the level of their opponents so much. And that’s oversimplifying things like different teams bring different defensive strategies against Detroit. I think jamming up the middle really, you know, baffles this team. They they their transition game was honestly like vomit worthy to watch last night, especially like the first twothirds of the game. Like they could not exit their zone whatsoever. Every single decision they were making was terrible. Don’t worry about zone exits cuz when they did get it to the offensive blue line, they couldn’t do anything there either. No. If they did get it over the blue line, they could never hold it either. It almost always turned around. But that game against Nashville was like it was terrible. It was not a good performance and they still should have won it like after two periods. They were still in position to win cuz Nashville is one of the worst teams in hockey. They’re horrific to watch. This is not one of those games where you know the Red Wings just got beat. Nashville looked awful that whole game. You can watch that game and go that’s one of the worst teams in the league. They were not good. They were terrible. They were just as in that first period. Nothing happened. Neither team did anything of consequence. That the LCA was a morg. God bless the admin people and the in arena hosts who are trying to get every pumped up. But it it’s hard when nothing happened. I couldn’t I think Finny got stopped on a two in one. Other than that, I can’t remember a single play from that whole period. Yeah. And we were in the building and that was 15 hours ago. The Red Wings, and we’ve talked about this a lot, game in, game out. Their effort is just all over the place. Their attention to detail is all over the place. This team relies so heavily on four players. Five, if you want to count Edmonson, but he wasn’t playing last night. I don’t think any of the Red Wings top players last night were sharp. Larkin looked noticeably off, especially in his timing. De Brinket was pretty good. Probably the best of the group. Cider was okay. Raymond didn’t really notice him much at all. And as soon as I saw that through the first half of the game, I uhoh like uhoh. Because this game is the shining example of the question we get all the time when the Red Wings are playing bad. Is it a systems issue? Is it a line combo issue? Is it the forwards? Is it the defense? It’s a lack of good hockey players. Truly. And I I think the answer is a lot simpler. I know this is a podcast and we have to make it long form, but I think the answer is exceptionally simple. There’s just a lot of pedestrians who aren’t very good anymore. Yeah. To begin with, like Travis Hamick and Eric Gustin cannot play in the NHL. Not uh not in the same game on the same team. JBD being out of the lineup and having both of them in is a mistake. That’s I’m not, you know, I’m not saying JBD is the the second coming of Kale Mar, but he’s got some young legs and I’ll take his mistakes over the the things I’ve witnessed all the time. We are acutely aware of his flaws and the type of defenseman he is. We get it. He’s never going to be a defensive stalwart. He’s going to struggle in the cycle defensively. I won’t argue any of those things. And if if that’s what Mlullen hates about him and why he’s in the doghouse, fine. I think that’s the calculus there. Yeah, it’s kind of like moving deck chairs in the Titanic. Yeah, I I understand Mlullen’s thought process. Hamick and Gustiffson cannot be in this lineup and expect any level of success on a night-to-ight basis. Gustoson, I stopped counting the egregious mistakes and turnovers he made or even just bad B. He almost got Axel Sandine Pelica killed on the one play. He had two outlets open on the left side and instead of sending it to either one of those guys, he puts it behind the net to Sandine Pelica whose floor checker was already coming at him full speed 10 ft away. So if that’s if that’s junior hockey ASP is dead. Dead. He’s waking up right now. He doesn’t even know the game ended yet. I would kill for that amount of sleep. Yeah, put me in coach. Yeah, whatever hand you need to like all those suicide passes. Travis Hamick’s best play is glass and out and it doesn’t quite make it for an icing. Like they are bad for the NHL level and if you are expecting this defense to be any level of good like it was for a good chunk of the season. The at least lineup of six defenseman that have to be trotted out there with what you have is abundantly obvious at this point. Please get better Simon Edmonson. Yeah. But even at that like we watch the same game. They were a problem. the forwards. Larkin had an like did they have a single five on five like sustained offensive zone shift last night. Even on the five on three I don’t think they got a shot on net. Remember that game like a hundred years ago, Evan, where we went and watched and they played Boston. It was just like nothing happened for 60 minutes and we just left. That’s what Yeah, that’s what that offense felt like for so much of that night where it was just like I have not seen three consecutive passes five on five in on the power play. You got to see them. It was actually nice to see them make like five consecutive passes. You’re like, “Oh, yeah, you can do that. I forgot that that’s how hockey can be played.” Last night, even those five passes rarely led to a shot on net, but that’s a whole But they made, you know, came after five passes, six pass. Yeah. And as much as I would love to sit here on and rip on Larkin and Raymond and because they deserve their share of criticism for last night, like it was not one of their better performances, they were not the biggest problems and they have done enough good this year that you know you’re allowed an off game every once in a while. It’s going to happen cuz I mean how many uncharacteristic turnovers did that line have? Like it was that one play Larkin turnover trying to leave the zone in the neutral zone. Puck comes back in. Cider gets it, just completely whiffs on the puck, can’t leave the zone. You’re like, “Okay, if these two are can’t leave the zone, this team is cooked tonight. Congratulations to San.” And you can I want to single so many players out because they were just inexcusably I don’t even want to say bad cuz a player can only play to their level of talent. So I don’t expect some of these guys to go out there and do what Dylan Larkin does. They can’t. They physically don’t have it in their toolkit. That’s what makes Dylan Larkin Dylan Larkin. But again, and I know we’re beating a dead horse over and over and over again, but I don’t know how this is still an issue. They genuinely look like they don’t give a [ __ ] I think there’s no level of effort. That’s the biggest concern for me or like the biggest point of frustration is you can be bad. There’s lots of bad NHL players, but if the effort is there, you can sort of excuse it. like how many we’ve seen a lot of guys come through the Red Wings that are like this guy’s not part of the solution but at least he worked hard and you know put in the effort whereas you know there’s lots of guys in the bottom six and you know some guys in the top six where the effort is just so variable or just non-existent all the time it’s like h how you struggle to transition to puck which we talked about so the Red Wings 99 out of 100 times, especially on the bottom three lines. By the time they get to the offensive zone blue line, they have no choice but to chip it in, which again, which is fine. I don’t expect, you know, Marco Casper, Andrew Cop, JT Con and tow drag a guy and burn a guy and, you know, get into space like fine, but then they would chip it. I And the Nashville players wouldn’t even be touched by the time they break it out. Like there there’s no speed to the puck. There’s no battle. Okay, the guy got it off a half sec before you get there. Cool. Hit him. Do anything. You know who’s an objectively terrible hockey player, especially watching him last night? Puck on his stick. He has actually got awful. Michael McCarron for Nashville. He sucks. I noticed him a ton. Yeah, I did too. Last night because he was in every scrum trying to piss off every Red Wings player. Didn’t matter who it was. He was out there every for check. He was throwing his body around. He was forcing turnovers. Couldn’t do anything with him when he got it, but he got it. He was a menace on the forche. He was a menace in every scrum. It’s It’s so comically simple. Like, if you just do that, you will find success or carve out a longish career in the NHL. But it just feels like so many guys on the Red Wings who have exponentially more talent than him. They just cannot or will not do that. You get the puck on Marco Casper, Andrew Cop, Elmer Soderblum, James Van Ramsey, JD Comfort on their stick. I trust him to do something better with it than Michael McCarron will. But I noticed Michael McCarron a dozen times more than any of them last night. Like it’s a problem. Not because he’s better than them, because he actually did things. He actually finding a way to be effective. Yes, he gave a [ __ ] It was obvious. And he was rattling the Red Wings. You could see it. Poor JVR almost had to fight like three times last night. He almost had to fight McCarron because I I can’t remember if it was Danielson or Oh, no. It might have been Gustin, whoever he grabbed and had in a headlock in the neutral zone. JVR’s like, “All right, I guess I’ll do it.” JVR is a guy who’s played on good hockey teams who knows what you’re meant to do. And you can see, you’re right, you can see on his face like, “So, I guess I will. Someone’s got to do this.” like you he knows what you’re meant to do. And even like I I like the points you guys made. Like you might not be the best player on the ice, but if you if you put in the kind of effort that lets you make it in the NHL, you might not win every shift, but you sure won’t lose every shift. And that’s what it’s about at the end of the day. If you can just tread water, not every shift in a professional hockey game, especially at this point in the season, is going to be a highlight reel shift or a gamedeciding shift. You just have to make sure it doesn’t become one for the other team. And why do you think coaches love those guys? Like they know their stars are going to get their cookies and and be their stars, but they love the sort of foxhole guys. They like this guy doesn’t have all the talent in the world to be a superstar, but he’s finding a way to be effective and keep his spot in the NHL. No wonder coaches love those guys. Like I I had a thought early in the third period where I’m like, if the Red Wings can come back and win this game, Ben Sherro’s the first start of the game by a mile. Oh yeah. Yeah. like which is a problem but it’s good for Ben Sherro because biggest fan right now by the way. Yeah. I loved when he was who was it Aussie Weisel who’s just like don’t even touch me you’re too small and you put the hands up even the little brother and he he threw four or five huge hits. He was in every scrum like I’m full on keep Ben Sherro this off. You cannot let him walk. I don’t want him on the first pair again next year. Brad don’t put the cart before the horse if there’s no other option. Yeah, it’s him cuz there won’t be. It’s him. Well, we’re going to have a conversation later, but yeah, he has to be on this team because he’s one of the very few guys. I think him and JVR last night were the two guys I can watch that game and go at least they cared. Yeah, that’s and the bar is so low. Again, circling back, the Nashville Predators are an awful hockey team. Awful. They were. They were. Now they’re going to just rip off 10 in a row. And it’s just dumb mistakes. Like, cuz here’s the thing, and I know it’s it’s probably annoying to everybody listening how much we talk about the give a [ __ ] level here, but it’s not just on the physical play, okay? We know this is a soft team, and that’s why we appreciate a guy like Ben Shrot so much right now, but give a [ __ ] is also in the same conversation as focus. It’s The Red Wings outshot Nashville that game. The Red Wings outshot them in the third period. It was stupid mistakes where they I don’t know if they lose focus. They’re just stupid. Just every Nashville goal in the third period was off a dumb mistake. Some of them Danielson had a really bad turnover behind the net that led to Nashville’s fifth goal. He’s a rookie. You have to expect a few of those a year. the Hamick turnovers, the Gustoson turnovers, the the guys who have been in this league, been around, done it before, some of the stuff they were doing was Johansson. They were losing shifts. That’s what they were doing. Johansson had a tough third. Yes, I love the guy, but he had a tough third period. So, if you’re engaged in the game, you make less mental mistakes. And the Red Wings made a lot of mental mistakes last night. So, just to quickly cover the game, the first goal of the game was from the oldest rookie in the league. That’s right, Michael Bunting. Power play goal. Alex Debrink scores his 12th of the season on a power play. James Van Reeves Dyke scores on the power play. Makes it 2-1. So, even though the game through two periods wasn’t a pretty one for Detroit, they were leading. Nashville starts the third. I literally walked away for four minutes and all you needed to walk away for was 15 seconds of gameplay because within 2 minutes and 20 seconds of the third period they’d score twice. Yes. At 205 and 220. Ben Shrot, MVP of these Detroit Red Wings, gets one back to tie it. Great. The game is tied for so much of the third period. Ryan O’Reilly scores with like what 5 minutes 46 seconds left. He was contemplating quitting hockey again. He was contemplating moving out to a shack in the middle of the woods and never seeing human life again with how he was talking about himself. Was he the uni bomber? The guy has lower self-esteem than when Brad and Evan both make fun of my thinning hair. Like it is brutal what this guy thinks about. Well, there’s no antidote like playing the Detroit Red Wings at the LCA. He scores. He It was actually a very nice goal because there was three Red Wings at the net and he still managed to score. The problem was they were all on one side of the net and he was on the other side of the net. Yeah, but if he was on the other side of the net, the Red Wings had him. Ryan, Eric Hollis scores a fifth goal like Brad said on the Danielson just straight up pass behind the net to the other team and it was the empty netter from Stam Coast and that made it 6-3. There was a lot of things that both you said in there where if you’re listening and you’re like, hm, you know that that sounds right, but I wonder what Todd McClullen thinks. I’m going to link Max Boltman’s article. I feel bad for Todd McClullen. I know continue on your thought, but I feel bad for Todd McClullen. You’re gonna feel worse in a second. Some of the quotes, every time we get something and we grab on to it in terms of like improving play and what they work on, we give something else back. It’s not a sign of a good team. Good teams hold their lessons and build off of them. This sounds exactly like my golf instructors. I When you figure out your drive, all of a sudden you can’t putt anymore. You’re not a good golfer. Max was writing about, you know, all the different ways where Nashville scored on them, beat them. Those goals came in, quote, in every different fashion you could think of. That’s what Mlullen said. There’s really no other element to the game where you can get beat. Penalty shot maybe. Oh my god, he is so done with this. He’s past the anger stage. He Yeah, that’s just like that’s your So it is so unbelievable what just happened. You’re like, I can’t even be angry at this. I’m I’m beyond even disappointed. Yeah, just disgusted. Who was that? I want to say it was the coach of the Arizona Cardinals years ago where he was talking about that player. He’s like, “Can win with them, cannot play with him, cannot coach him, can’t do it.” That feels like Tom McClullen and 80% of this team right now. Just he’s got they got to go. He knows. He’s requested a trade, but not him. He wants He’s requested Steve Osman trade 80% of this roster. And it’s twofold, right? Like he knows and like you hear about what happens internally. They know like a lot of these guys, they’re just not it, right? That’s what Evan said earlier. There’s just still a lot of non to by NHL standards, guys who are not up to scuff on this hockey team. But he’s also saying fairly, okay, you are not all Kale Mars. You’re not all, you know, Simon Edmonsons. You’re not all Ben Schrotz. You still have to be better in what you execute and how you play. And the the thing that was less funny but most kind of I think poignant considering the conversation you two just had about the give a damn level of this team. He thought they looked too casual. Like if Todd Mlullen at this point in the season is still getting on the team for being too casual like these guys have a problem. It doesn’t matter that they are playing at a pace of two goals and five assists over an 82 game season. He just wants them to care more, to go out there and skate harder, to go out there and execute a little bit better at the things that aren’t, you know, Quinn Hughes, Kale Mar, Nathan McKinnon, Sydney Crosby level stuff, but the basic fundamentals of a hardworking hockey team, the guys in the foxhole, the guys that that make sure that when your stars go out there, they have a game to try to save and it’s not already three, four, five goals away. And that’s like you could see he is just completely spent in terms of the anger and he’s just like, “All right, back. It’s it’s this is the definition of insanity. That’s what I’m being paid to do right now. Just ram my head against the same wall over and over again with these guys cuz they’re just it’s not sticking with them.” Well, if us idiots see it over and over again and 90% of the fan base sees it over again, imagine with a guy of his hockey intellect who’s on the bench watching it what he sees. It’s a miracle he has. The fact that that he just like can stand there and be stoic on the outside. Like if I was on the bench, I would I would be losing my [ __ ] You look You’d make Mike Babcock and John Tordella look like Buddhist monks. Yes. There would be things thrown everywhere at the fans. What was it? The one play I’d get. Yeah. I’d be throwing them equipment to be like, “Get the on the ice because these bums can’t do it.” But you you look like your body mass index is decent. You can play left wing right now. It’s not us. No. Odd. No. There’s just too many players on this. The first Nashville goal. Andrew Cop has a very easy opportunity to push that puck north. He for whatever reason decides to try a 5- foot back pass to someone who’s covered. Leads to a Nate Danielson high sticking penalty. Nashville scores on the power play. Like if if I’m mullen on a play like that that just strikes me as either scared, lazy, or both. How do how do you coach that? We need to be solutionoriented right now. Someone get a scrum master in here, please. Yeah, we need to be solutionoriented. We know that there’s a lot of pedestrians. We know we have four point per game level type players or well the defense equivalent to that. What do you do with the rest of the the pedestrians? Can I offer something else in here? And it’s going to sound like making excuses, and I’m not trying to write off any excuses from Danielson or ASP or anyone else from last night. Not that’s not it at all, but look at how the rookies played in the preseason at the start of the season when the team was flowing and they were playing well. And look how they’re playing now. The rookies are playing scared. EMTT Finny is I mean, I actually really like a lot of what he’s getting better with his chance creation. His his finishing and his execution is still off and that has to come. But you could see him gripping the stick. You can see ASP overthinking plays when he lets his mind go. He moves the puck well. But then you also see him like completely whiff and then trip and then scramble. You see Nate Danielson make that terrible giveaway. Those guys are playing scared. They are from the start of the season. What was the line that Mlullen used? Riding the brakes. Yeah, riding the brakes. They are because they have there’s the support around them from the veterans on this team. It’s not there. And I it’s this isn’t an excuse for those guys who say they can do no wrong. I promise you not. That’s not what I’m saying. But there are downstream effects even beyond, you know, you go out there and you lose a shift. It’s now the the other guys who aren’t NHL veterans who are trying to learn and grow in this game. They’re out there and they’re like, “What the hell am I supposed to do?” They’re in their own heads about it. It’s not a good environment for these guys to come up in. It’s a problem. You hear all the time, “Oh, this team’s got to It’s a young team, so they got to bring in some veteran leadership.” Well, that was what a lot of these guys were supposed to be. I think a couple of those veterans they brought in to be that guy look like they’re working out a bit. I like what Ben Sherro’s bringing. I think JVR might be one of those guys. Might not be super effective anymore, but you can see he at least does the right things within his skill set. That might be the end of the list. Can I say something very controversial? Performance aside, which is a rip statement, I think JT Confer’s effort has much improved. Oh, over the last week, you mean? Because it hasn’t been this season. Two weeks. Two weeks. Yeah. Hey, you you got to give credit where credit is due. Yes, he has turned it around. It only took a couple years, but like, hey, year one was good. We’re here and it’s just We’ve watched bad hockey teams. You can always get through a game if you’re a entertained or b the team’s a lovable band of tryhards. Well, this a has happened sometimes. B ain’t happening. Well, takes a lot for Red Wings fans who just received their gravy votes to boo the Red Wings off the ice. Oh, yeah. Feel like this team gets booed off the ice repeatedly. It seems like every other home game they’re getting booed off the ice. Like that is a bad sign. And I can’t believe like I don’t know how like those guys have immense pride from Steve Eisermanman all the way down to Eric Gusson or Travis Hamick or however you want the totem pole to work. Like how is that not like soul crushing a little bit, right? Like that’s so embarrassing that your home fans are booing you 50% of the time you walk off the ice because it’s a full circle. Yeah, it’s probably disheartening, but you give that effort because you don’t give a [ __ ] So then you get booed off the ice, but it doesn’t bother you cuz you don’t give a [ __ ] Lather, rinse, repeat. We need another West Coast road trip bad. Please my sleep. All right, the Red Wings upcoming nothing to heal what else you like. Oh, Red Wings play to their competition. So, we’re about to see the performance of a lifetime. A Friday matinea against the Tampa Bay Lightning at home, followed up by the Boston Bruins the next night in Boston on the road is back to back. I I don’t I’m not even going to say the Red Wings are doomed. Their performances game to game don’t make sense. So, flip the coin. Spin the wheel. Roll the 20side die. Like, here comes a 4-3 win against Tampa, followed by a 5-2 loss to the Bruins. I swear to God if that’s exactly the score line, the next episode is starting with you sitting in that chair and Evan and I pummeling you like it’s a gang initiation. I would take that. I would take over Tampa. All right, fine. I think all three of us would welcome that situation. Yeah, Brad would like the release. He’d feel something. All right, we’re going to take a quick break and when we’re back, more Let’s be honest, bad coffee should be worthy of a major penalty in a game misconduct. If you’re still drinking burnt, stale stuff out of a giant plastic tub, I’m telling you, it’s time to upgrade. Coffee cult, that’s the real deal. They roast only the best of the best specialty grade Arabica beans in the world. We are talking elite level coffee. Every batch is roasted fresh after you order, so what shows up at your door hasn’t been sitting around for weeks. Right now, the star of their show is the holiday blend, and it is unreal. 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They said something like, you know, this team just has to decide, are they going for McKenna or not because they need to just like go out there and and run the worst players every shift kind of thing. And it was it was inest to put it out there. It was inest. But I said I was like this team is too good. I I used to think that this team had too many good players to to go that far down, but genuinely now they are too good. You see, even on bad nights, their offense should be able to put up a few goals. like they have really good offensive players up top and they have at least two sometimes three decent defenseman on any given night. Like were there not going to be the Nashville Predators in the standings? I wish we could have been. I mean, hey, they they’re they did their best last night. And so I now more than ever believe that the angle based on the path that you are on is to sell out to add high high-end talent. Now go for a silver bullet so big and so silver and so bullety. It is a comical move like we talked about last episode with Max Quinn Hughes because you are not going to go out there and do cuz if you want to fully tank and fully restart the rebuild, you know what you would have to do? Trade anyone who’s older than Cider and can get a return genuinely. And that means Larkin and that means Debrink and that means Kain and that means Sherat and that means everyone and that is can just like imagine it’s not possible. No, you just shuddered thinking of that. You it they’re obviously not going to do that. And so I’m looking at this now and I’m I’m thinking of Mlen’s comments and and pretty much he’s working with what he can. I’m not saying the only moves are to add, you know, that massive Quinn Hughes level silver bullet. You have to try to add marginally if you can as well, like just adding solid depth who can go out there and not lose shifts. That will help Mlullen as well. But to really turn this team around, you need a couple of those. But in all reality, you need something big. You need a guy who’s going to come in and be like, is he our best player now? Is he better than Larkin? Is he better than Raymond? Is he better than Cider? They need that and a lot more this again. But if they get that Brad, it gets them to the level of a team where they still have holes, but they are in a playoff position. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And top 4D, top six winger. Until they figure that out, this team’s not a serious contender. Like we’ve tal we’ve been talking about that for years. They’ve got this glaring hole in the top six and they’re gonna have another one whenever Patrick Kane decides to hang him up and they have a glaring hole on defense. Again, we love Ben Sherro, but if Ben Sherro’s on your top pair, you’re not winning a Stanley Cup. Full stop. Sounds like we’re fighting, but Okay. No, no, you’re right. Yeah. Okay. So, if this off season or this season the opportunity presents itself to trade for a Quinn Hughes, you do not have the luxury to not overpay. If Jordan Cairo hits the market, you do not have the luxury to not overpay. And if you end up giving up two first round picks and four premium prospects to hypothetically get both of them, you do it. I don’t know what the exact price on guys like this is going to be. It doesn’t matter. I was surprised how many takes I saw online saying, “Oh, you can’t include ASP in a trade for Quinn Hughes. Oh, you can’t include Nate Danielson in a Send of them for all I care.” Like, it’s a Norris caliber defenseman in his prime when you have an elite core 4 performing like an elite core 4. What what are we talking about here? The question of should the Red Wings trade for Quinn Hughes? Yeah. 31 teams should be picking up the phone right now and offering whatever the hell they can. Well, we’re just going to wait till Conor McDavid is a free agent. I You should do that, too. It’s not an andor. And I’ve seen a lot of andors online as well with it. Oh, but if you trade all this for Quinn Hughes, what do you have left if Robertson or Kyru comes available? A lot. And you trade that too. You do not have the luxury to say no. The Dallas Stars in the beat down they put on Edmonton was only rivaled by what the Grand Rapids Griffins put on the Texas Stars. They beat them 10-1. But yeah, Conor Mc I’m looking at a lot of these results. I’m like, does Conor McDavid regret his two-year extension? But going back to what you said, Brad, here’s the thing. Like, okay, let’s let’s bring this down from the emotional free flowing like offthe cuff episode. No, if if Yeah, if Edmonson’s back, you know, these maybe you get at least one point of these last four, if not two or whatever. And this team with Edmonson back, you’ve seen them where they can execute some games like where that you’re like they play reasonably well. And in a really weird transitional year, this could be as high as a divisional seat. They were leading the division a few days ago. So, I’m not saying all that’s gone and you’ll never see that again in this season. When Edmonson’s back, you probably will see that solid play again here and there this season, but grand scheme of things, yeah, like I I I think certainly there’s a lot to work on in this team and their their culture and their mindset and the way they approach games and how they execute and and how they they think about the game as it the flow is against them and the going gets tough. They have so much work to do there where I’m like you are so far removed from the teams who just get it done and understand how you have to play. But also like what Evan said, there’s still just a lot of bad hockey players relative to what you need to be to be a competitive NHL team. So yeah, if you have an opportunity to bring in a superstar level player like that, oh, I don’t I don’t like the idea of giving up those assets. The Red Wings never won the lottery. The Red Wings never got the opportunity to bring in a Celabbrini, to bring in a Bedard, to bring in a Dalene, to bring in a Matthew Schaefer. They made the most of their first round picks. And even the ones where you’re like, “Oh, you know, let’s say this year you want to do the Casper versus Naser thing.” Great. That wasn’t even like you still got an NHL player at the very worst. And and don’t make conclusions on that one too soon because, you know, last year that conversation would have been flipped. like they made the most of their first round picks so far, but they never got to draft high enough to get the the Demodovs or or any of those guys. So, you have to use your wealth of really good assets, both prospects and picks, and do it yourself cuz it’s not going to come in free agency. I promise you that much. Since we started talking, five more pending free agents got signed. Like, it’s that’s not the way the NHL works right now in this era. you have to go out and you have to make big moves like that if you want to to add that kind of talent which we all think the Red Wings need. That’s what you would hope the whole stockpiling of assets and bringing in these middling veterans is for like you’re preparing for launch. Like you are waiting until someone like Quinn Hughes becomes available, like Jordan Kyuk becomes available, Jason Robertson becomes available. So when they do, you are in a position that you have these assets and you’ve got your lunch pail foxhole guys that you inject a superstar. It’s like, all right, we’re a contender now. Yeah. You know how much easier those which I think if the Red Wings do add a superstar, they’re still very far away, but you got to start somewhere, right? Totally. And it’s so much easier though when you’re a way better team to fill those gaps. I promise you. You want to know why? it becomes easier to trade your first round picks because they’re way worse. Because they’re worse and that that value ad for like a deadline deal, for example, and then you sign the guy after that becomes a lot more viable. The Red Wings weren’t doing that at previous deadlines. Their pick was like 12th at worst. It becomes way easier to add players who want to come and trade for agency. Why? Because your team is good. Yeah, I want to go play with Quinn Hughes. Yeah, I want to go play with Dylan Lin. Yeah, I want to go play with Lucas Raymond. Yeah, I want to go play with Simon Ed. Like Patrick Kane, it becomes it’s the snowball effect. It’s not just of success. It’s about the actual talent level of the team. And also, as we always mention, the core of this team, the team like the four, five, six guys that Brad said earlier are the ones who are carrying this team. Barring Patrick Kane, they’re all at a really good age, but they won’t be forever. Every year, a year goes by, you know, like they that hasn’t changed as long as I’ve been paying attention. So, you have Dylan Larkin at a really good age right now. Eventually, he’s going to start to decline. Not to the point, I’m not saying he’s going to be useless at 32, but he’s going to be less useful at 32 than he is at 29, 28, 27. You know, like it’s you want to move on this, you have to make the most of the immense talent that he’s bringing you right now. The best teams make the hardest decisions when it comes to their players and their assets, right? Like, let’s look at some of the best teams in the in the league. Let’s look at Avalanche. This backfired completely on them at at one point last year, but they traded Mo Ranton in and then he pulled down their pants and spanked them. But he’s taking up a life of murder. Yeah. And but now look at that. That team is a wagon this year. Is it sustainable? Who the hell knows? But they are on fire. Let’s let’s talk about Carolina. They go and try and poach, you know, maybe not the true superstars from everybody, but they are looking at some of the best players all the time trying to add. Everybody hates Vegas. Well, they go out and get the Jack Eel. Why are they in on every single superstar? It’s because that is how you win. They gave up Payton Krebs and they turned it into a guy who probably was a coin flip away from being a Cons winner. I think maybe a good example here is Anaheim. They bring in Cutter Goce for Jamie Dale. you know, he’s was potentially one of the best defenseman on that team. They knew they had a surplus there and they could bring in some veteran guys to insulate them with like Gudas and what turned into Trouba. But, you know, that’s a tough trade to make. Like, you’re trading one of your first round picks of prospects or I guess NHL player at this point to bring in someone to make your team better. Like, the Red Wings can’t slow burn this forever. This like It’s right on both ends of the spectrum. Like you both said this team has more gaps than just the superstar thing. Like that’s an easy conversation to have cuz Quinn Hughes, there’s also the context for Quinn Hughes that we always mentioned like the Red Wings passed over him. And for those who don’t know the lore there, they took Zadena cuz Zadena fell in the draft and we all loved it at the time. Everyone thought it was a steal. If it wasn’t Zadena, it wasn’t going to be Hughes, it was going to be Buchard. And if it wasn’t Buchard, it was going to be Dobson. Hughes was not going to be drafted. He said like the Red Wings weren’t going to draft him. Holland and Wright weren’t going to draft Quinn Hughes. But that is the biggest miss in Red Wings modern drafting history. Maybe Red Wings drafting history considering the the implications of it and how long they’ve been out of the playoffs. Like that ties him inherently here. He has ties to the state of Michigan. Yes, his brothers play in New Jersey. We’ll see when push comes to shove. But I I’ve seen it, you know, speculated that he’s going to go to New Jersey or nowhere else. But I have also been told, don’t necessarily bank on that. He might just be okay with being in the Eastern time zone and closer to family. It might not be. We’ll see when decisions have to be made, barring Vancouver figuring it out for the first time in like 20 years, what he actually wants to do. But that’s the the Quinn Hughes being tied to the Red Wings thing. But going back to what you said at the top, Brad, they do have to do other things. They have to find a way to make their bottom six less frustrating. They have to find a way to add more competent defensemen and players where, okay, Simon Edson goes out and it doesn’t mean you have to have a pair composed of two below replacement level NHL defenseman who are going to cost you goals game in and game out. That’s the part that gets frustrating is It does equate to points in the standings. You know, the number one push back when we had that episode in August where we were just torching the Hammond signing, well, it’s only one year for no money. Like, it it’s not going to affect anything and you can just wave him if it doesn’t go well. He’s cost you at least at the very least four standings points this year in two games where he was so bad that he he cost you. These decisions matter and if you don’t acquire better players, it’s the same cycle. And I’m going to obviously ignore the top end of this, but do you know who’s an analytics darling this year having a great year? Matt Grizzlick. He was still available when they signed Hamik. Different type of player. I get it. But type of player almost doesn’t matter at this point. Stop acquiring bad players. Replace them with good players. Obvious statement, I know, but it’s been a problem. Write that down. Write that down. Yeah, but it’s been a problem. It’s been a consistent problem. And yeah, I get it. For agent market now, it’s only getting worse. So, solutions have to come elsewhere. And all the guys want to have to come. Like, you don’t know if they tried to sign Rosic and and Grizzlick and they just didn’t want to come, you know? But eventually, like the guys have to come overpay for good players. Happy Thanksgiving, folks. We’re going to take we’re going to wrap that one up there. Yeah, that’s staying in by the way. Enjoy everyone. It’s always me. It is always you. Yeah. But no, like you’re right, Brad. Like it’s you can see the frustration. Like you can only I’m sorry to use the most played out, you know, phrase here. You can only shuffle the deck chairs around on the Titanic so many ways. And it’s worsened. Like there’s going to be very very very messages that I’m going to get and I I know I’m gonna get them that say that’s a big reaction for games where Simon Edmonson was missing and this team is obviously like fighting some kind of flu bug and that’s fair. But we talked before the season started this team has really good talent but they are fragile in that one injury or one gap beyond what they already carry game in and game out is going to be devastating. is going to be a disproportionate effect. Other teams, you know, their second line center is not playing well or or, you know, moved off the roster for one reason or like looks sick or injured or whatever. They bring in another guy who’s definitely not a second line center, but can come in and do a decent job in the interim. Think JT Confer when he was on the Colorado Avalanche. Like, it was fine kind of thing. But the Red Wings don’t have that. The drop off is precipitous. It’s like I don’t know why this comes to mind, but have you guys ever been on a lake and it’s a meteoric lake? It came from like a an actual crater from a meteor and you walk out 10 ft onto the dock and the you go from being able to see the depth like a foot below and then all of a sudden drops like 20 ft. That’s the talent drop off. It’s it goes off a cliff for the Red Wings. And so one injury, you can’t replace a Simon Edson with a Simon Edson. Teams don’t have that on their third pair, but it shouldn’t have to be that you’re playing multiple below replacement level players. It’s it like you’re you’re handcuffing your coach, you’re handcuffing your team, you’re handcuffing your rookies, you’re handcuffing your goalies, you’re handcuffing your best players, like it makes everything worse. We thought the Red Wings season ended twice last night when Debrink went off when it looked like he hurt his shoulder and then when Larkin went off when it looked like he hurt his back. We’re like, well, that’s it. Pack it in. We’re done here. Yeah, we advocate for playing a more physical and nasty game. And that’s probably stupid because if anything happens to Lucas Raymond, my god, I’m going to go just drive and camp outside Gavin McKenna’s house. We’ll start covering Penn State games for the rest of the year. Screaming into the void. Like that’s a lot of what this episode is. Like we’re just yelling into the void. Get good players. Very simple. Like a very revolutionary concept. Way to go us. But at the same time, like you can s I’m not saying that’s what Mlullen is saying like it’s a message but it’s like cuz I I do believe he’s saying like yeah I I these guys who are here they still have to execute better but you can see it like he’s not working with the the most here and if he practically said like this isn’t a serious team. This isn’t a sign of a good team. You have to find ways to add and you can’t choose the other direction anymore. This coming from the podcast that advocated for rebuild and sell sell sell for most of our existence our almost 11year existence you are too far down the path of being good now and I’m not saying that tongue and cheek you have too many good players and they are not at the right age where you can reset this rebuild around them you have to go you have to make moves I think the troubling part of this for me is anybody can identify a superstar but the red wings have a terrible time identifying the foxhole type guys. Yeah, they thought Steve Eisermanman is on record of saying that he liked Travis Hamick’s game last year and if you went into the Senator subreddit after Detroit signed them, they were about to plan a parade down Woodward. I don’t think he believed that. I think that was cuz he that signing was in cuz well, you can’t torch the guy. The signing was in August for so little money and it was one year. I think that I honestly think he was trying for other things and that was like we need a body because we don’t want to run Hall and Joseph. didn’t Hall Hall and Gustoson are equally as bad, but he it was I I I’m not making an excuse. It was like he’s not a good player, but I think it was I just need to try something else and if that’s bad too, then we’ll deal with it when we come to it. And that’s what we’re And I guess the counterargument to my point is JVR and Appleton have been mostly fine. Like I actually don’t mind either of them. Appleton has his moments where it’s that he disappears, but that’s kind of what you get with a with a guy at in that part of your death chart, but those guys have not been I would say the problem for this team. No, if you put those two OP with I don’t know, call it any random plug that you can find in free agency who’s a decent center, that’s a really good fourth line and they’re getting paid like to be a really good fourth line. The problem is they have to play more than fourth line minutes frequently and then their second line and third line is nowhere near good enough. And we’ve been we’ve talked about this at length before, but yeah, they identified a couple good players to play a role. Now it’s the other four that are a problem in the bottom six. And if you get two more JVRs and Appletons this off season, now you’re only dealing with two problems in the bottom six. And then you cycle them out, right? You just It’s always about upgrades. You don’t need to turn Andrew Cop into Jason Robertson. If you turn Andrew Cop into, I don’t know, E2 Lsterin, not a significantly better player, but a much more effective player for probably less money. Upgrade, right? Like, and it’s just you got to keep making shrewd moves like that over and over again. Turning Justin Hall or his roster spot into Travis Hamick is at best a wash. That is not a recipe for success. And it’s been the theme. We all know Eman strengths as a GM. We all know his weaknesses, but this weakness, it’s been too long for this to keep happening. What was it the stat that was floating around last night? The Red Wings record with Hamik in the lineup is seven and eight and without him it was 61 and one. H I’m not even going to fact check that. That just feels right. He’s just out there flexing and warm up and everyone’s like Christ look at those arms. He’s huge. He’s huge. Hey, the mustache alone was worth at least a couple games to get a look. But yeah, they should we should have gotten the Seganthaler Hamick fight just for that stash versus Stash showdown. Look like two firemen fighting advertisement for November. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah, we need a themed fight every year. We had Forsber insiders hair battle. Now we Yeah. All right, that’s enough. That’s enough venting. Let’s take another quick break and when we’re back, the final segment on this episode of the Wingbo Podcast. Back after this. We’re going to overtime. Overtime is brought to you by our Patreon supporters. patreon.com/wingodcast if you want to support the show. Again, the bonus episodes, the Discord, the giveaways. I’m going to put in a couple fun bloopers for the the bonus episode on this one. Whenever there’s good out takes, I always lead off the the bonus episodes. All that and lots more. And it allows us to do everything we do. So again, patreon.com/wingedwheelodcast. Let’s take some questions and comments from our patrons. Jack’s dad’s starts with a quote says he doesn’t know whether to go to the bathroom or wind his watch. That’s from Mickey Redmond. This Mickeyism applies to the whole team last night. So many missed shots, too many chances, missed trying to get cute. These guys need a shipment of your play fing hockey shirts. Let’s put the entire team on LTI and bring up the whole Grand Rapids squad. Emergency call up. Grand Rapids right now, man. Like that’s a tale of two tapes. 10-1 against Texas. Record start to the season. At least the vibes there are good. They deserve that. I’m excited for our Grand Rapid event. Yeah. Win Real Podcast night with the Grand Rapids Griffins. Get your tickets. Griffinhockey.com/WWP. Eric Asmus says, “I saw Radco Gudas’s name pop up on a trade bait board. Is there any place for him on the Wings blue line? We could use some attitude on this team. There’s no way they trade Radcoas.” Isn’t he their captain and they’re in a playoff spot? I saw his name show up on the the trade board and I wonder how much of it is just like he’s his role is lessening. I wanted Radco Goodass before, not because I think he was going to be a great defenseman, but just because I thought he added some, you know, snarl and edge and some veteran experience in this team, which I know that’s kind of a bad word. Depends on what they want. If if it’s going to be like what the people make Colorado and Toronto pay at the trade deadline, then no, that’s not what you spend your your premium assets on. But if you can add them for whatever reason on the cheap, sure, that’s not the that’s not the Anaheim defenseman I’m trying to trade for, though. I want Mincchov if you’re trading with with Verbique. Like let’s get a guy who can maybe be something else. Finny the Pooh. Oh, I love this question. How much of an upgrade would defensive Patterson be and what would it take? Marcus Patterson, how much of an upgrade would he be? So, he would be playing where on this team right now? Third pair? No. Who’s he replacing? Edinson or Sherro? Sherro. Move Sherat down to the third pair. I’m Edson. I’m not convinced Marcus Person’s an obvious upgrade from Sherrot. Okay. So, doesn’t matter. No, he’s your bottom four. Great. Yeah, he’s he’s good and you should want him and he would probably play on the bottom pair as this roster is constructed right now with probably just move Joe Johansson to the right side and that would go a long way to shoring up this defense. I for I I appreciate your bench advocacy. Thank you for that. But what a great problem to have. Oh, this second and third pair guy could both play second pair. That’s what we need to be doing on this team. It’s like the the conversation where it’s like, yeah, he’s good, but he would play minus one position on a Stanley Cup team or a true cup contender. I think if you’ve got Marcus Person or Ben Sher playing third pair, I can I can get around to that. Yeah, but that he’s not the Conucks defenseman I’m trading for. Just again, not the defenseman I’m trading for. Why not both? Why not both? Why not just grab you close your eyes and pick a Person? That’s what Evan No, thank you. I’m good. Hey, he’s having a good offensive season, Evan. I’m I’m good. You’re not You’re not adding Person salary retained. I want a softer Detroit Red Wings, please. You know what? I want my vanilla ice cream to be fully liquefied. Who would you rather have, Connor Garland or Elias Patterson, the forward? What kind of stupid question is that? The answer is neither. No, no, you have to pick one. You know what? I got to stay true to my brand. I’m thinking Conor Garland. We We call him feistier Brad Krisco for his size. Who’s Is he shorter than you? Yes. I like that you knew that right away. We know all the short kings who we would Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Also, he has an extension that hasn’t even kicked in yet. Very cool. Very cool. Thanks. Does the Olympic break have the potential to affect how much Talbot fees at the end of the season? Do you think a 3-we break makes a meaningful difference there? Yeah, I genuinely do. Mhm. Yeah. Like a lot of times this season where you’re like, why are they going back to Gibson? He just had a terrible game. I think they don’t want to burn out Talbot early. So yeah, that break will help quite a few players who need that kind of thing, especially in net. So you have Larkin and Raymond and Cider and all those your best players going for sure. That sucks in terms of attrition, but helps Talbet. Although again, team Canada goalies. No. Schmelt says, “Would you ever consider a trade for Steven Stamos?” No. God, no. I consider it. Yeah. I mean, sure, I’d consider it. Did you watch him last night? Scored an empty net. He is a true Redwing. If it’s, you know what, 50% retained with like no assets given up. Sure. That’s what I had in mind. That’s all it is. They are not going to do that. They’re asking a first in a premium prospect for the ghost of Ryan O’Reilly. Like, it’s not going to happen. They They’re asking first in an A-level prospect for a guy who was the before guy on a Ryan O’Reilly be the second line center on this team. Yes. Yeah. That’s a statement about the Red Wings, not Ryan O’Reilly. Yes. But he just went out, he very recently went after having a terrible game and said, “I can I can’t do anything right. I’m so stupid. I’m so ugly. I suck. And I’m one good year like He’s a great hockey player, but oh my god, how are you going to set that as the asking price for a guy who just said, “I don’t like hockey.” Like, have we also considered that Barry Trots is a bad GM? That’s all we’ve considered. He’s I’ve never seen a wider disparity between a head coach and a GM’s prowess. But if this team you could transport them to 2019 and reverse their ages to age correct them, oh my god, this would be a wagon. This would be like dream team. Do you remember when Colorado put together that dream team with like Korea and Salani and everything and nothing happened with it? It’d be like that. That’s kind of what they did, but just like aged forward a little bit. All right, next one here. Finn is hot and I’m ready says, “In honor of Thanksgiving and utter ignorance to the fact that we lost to the worst team in the league on Thanksgiving Eve, what are the top three things about this Red Wings season you’re grateful for?” The first off, bigger picture, remove the emotional reaction to one or two games. Their best players are having great seasons. Cider, Larkin, Raymond, De Brinket. That’s four things. Cheater. No, no, it is all in one. The rookies making the team. I’m very thankful for that because you got to at least say like there’s progress happening and they got a lot of wins to start the season. So, at least there’s some some happiness banked in there. I’m thankful for the brisket and pulled pork nachos last night. Yep. If we’re if we’re allowed to count Detroit’s new core four, I’ll go with that. And I’ll say I’m thankful for Cam Talbet preventing this season from being a dumpster fire and at least making it interesting to this point. Yeah, you stole mine about the rookies making the team. I think the other one I’m thankful for is Todd Mcclullen. He’s basically without singling people out, he’s singling people out. And that is a welcome change from the, you know, losing 10 nothing and talking about moral victories that we’ve heard in the past. I think we had a really good third period. Like, oh, we only gave up two goals that period. Sweet. Camera pants to the scoreboard. And I’m thankful for the Grand Rapids Griffins because when the Revings have a stinker, you could just go over to their Twitter feed and feel good about yourself. Something or someone I’m thankful for. Zack Freeland, our next comment says, “During tonight’s game, Ken shouted, “Me and Kyle Culps out while referencing the interview we did with you guys about the jersey design. Zack and Kyle joined us in the live episode from Little Caesars Arena at Wingio Podcast at the LCA designers to the designers from the Red Wings Centennial jersey and that entire, you know, brand. we’ve been seeing this season. That was an incredible moment for me as a designer and a lifelong fan. And I owe it to you guys for taking the time to talk about the design and for having some great questions. Kyle and Zach, both of you, thank you for jumping on the show. That was one of the coolest interviews. And as Rekings fans, like we said on the live show, we are grateful for, you know, these jerseys that we’re surrounded by. Like, at least even games last night, at least they look good. Yep. And fun fact, Zach says, “My wife and I got married the day that live episode came out.” You buried the lead when we saw you. You never mentioned that. Congratulations, Zach. And I’m sorry I don’t know your wife’s name. So, congratulations to the Freelands. This This episode is dedicated to you. I’m sorry that’s a terrible episode. It’s dedicated to you, but that’s really Tell the guy you hate him. All right. Yeah. Congratulations. That is incredible. Incredible news, man. And man, the best feeling at your wedding is everything from the moment you say I do onwards because all of the responsibilities just like wash away from you. Wouldn’t know there was only me and Catherine there and a gaggle of Italians who were looking at you who are probably like who are these tourists? They had entertainment at their lunch. Yeah. But congratulations, Zach. That is incredible, man. And thank you again. Can’t wait to chat with you once again. All right, folks. We’re going to wrap up this episode of the Wing Wheel Podcast. We are sorry and thank you. I guess thank you to the sponsors of the Wing Wheel podcast and to all of our Patreon supporters. patreon.com/wingodcast. If you want to help us out and if you want to go above and beyond, but Patreon is not for you. 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Thank you all so very much. We will talk to you on Sunday. Thanks for tuning in to the Wingwheel Podcast. Be sure to visit wingwheelpodcast.com where you’ll find links to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. You’ll also find ways to support the show like Patreon, official podcast merchandise, and more. And don’t forget to follow us on X at Wingwheel Pod, at Ryan Hannah WWP, at Brad Krisco, and at Hockeytown Evan, as well as Wing Wheel Podcast on Instagram. This message is brought to you by Greenlight Lending. Are you facing financial red lights on your home ownership journey? Don’t have money for a down payment or closing costs? Struggling with your current mortgage payment or other debt obligations? Or maybe you have a complicated situation like credit challenges or self-employment income. At Greenlight Lending, they turn those red lights green with creative mortgage solutions for purchase and refinance loans. 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The Detroit Red Wings can’t string together solid games, and Todd McLellan is just about done with it.

Tune in as we open by discussing the New Jersey Devils game, including Compher’s hit on Hischier and fight vs. Noesen, Chiarot’s butt-end on Nemec, Siegenthaler’s blindside on Raymond, Hamonic’s rough game, Larkin, DeBrincat, Seider, Patrick Kane, & other performances with Edvinsson out, & more.

Next, the brutal loss to Barry Trotz’ Nashville Predators, including miscues from just about the entire team, Gustafsson and Hamonic on defense, how the team’s play affects Finnie, Sandin-Pellikka, Danielson, Kasper, & other young players, & more as Steve Yzerman’s squad struggled on home ice, plus what’s wrong with this team from its best players down to its depth in guys (like Copp, Compher, Johansson, etc.).

We then discuss whether Steve Yzerman should go all out for a guy like Quinn Hughes & how much that would fix (and the cost of acquisition), or what other depth moves would be needed to shore up the team.

All of that & lots more before we take your questions and comments in our Overtime segment – enjoy and Happy Thanksgiving!

Intro: 00:00

NJD Game Recap: 4:25

NSH Game Recap & Red Wings Woes: 13:10

All in for Quinn Hughes?: 39:45

Overtime: 1:00:40

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Max’s Article: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6841583/2025/11/27/todd-mclellan-red-wings-defense/

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