Garden Report: Celtics vs Timberwolves Postgame Show on CLNS Media

Garden Report: Celtics vs Timberwolves Postgame Show on CLNS Media

Always has to be a shot at somebody. I know they’re never clean. They have to run. That’s the only shot they have. They do it for 82 games. We’re about to find out. He already has shown what he’s capable of. Did surprise me. I thought we were going to hang in there. This makes me think that we do need to be humble. I actually think you’re the only one who deserved that. What’s going on everybody? Happy Saturday. Celtics. Pretty pretty fun game. Tough loss. That’s what you’d say. What? Wamp wamp. Tough loss. There were a lot of good vibes in this game. A lot of things to be happy about. Terrific first half. Great run at the end after it looked like it was over to uh roar back and tie the game. Um and then just couple things that one you can’t control, one you can. And ultimately that was it. They lost the game. uh John Xanis along with Noah Delzel and Bobby Manning uh here to break down this uh latest Celtics uh game against the Wolves. Before we get started, quick shout out to our sponsor, Prize Picks. Download that app. Use code CLNS. Get 50 in your lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize Picks, the number one daily fantasy sports app in all of North America. Check it out today. It is good to be right. And of course, Omaha Stakes running out of time here to get in on this special deal. Black Friday special 50% off sitewide sale over at omahastak.com and an additional 35% off when you use the code Patriots terms to apply. So check that out. And very simple question. I’ll start it with you, Noah. First half, second half, what happened? What was the difference? First half, that’s as connected as we’ve seen the Celtics offensively. Um they they really look terrific. Honestly, I thought it could have been an even bigger lead. Jaylen Brown was unstoppable. They were moving the ball great. Offensive rebounds, literally everything you could expect. Uh, you know, uh, you know, passing the ball well, finding open shooters, cutting, just brilliant, brilliant offensive basketball. And then second half they just completely went cold. Anything Minnesota did or just that’s just tail of two halves. That’s how it happened. Couple things. So, first of all, I felt like Minnesota came into this game with zero intensity on the defensive end. And so, a lot of what the Celtics were doing was just a little too easy for an NBA opponent. Like, some of Kada’s layups and offensive rebounds. Like, Rudy Gobar was kind of asleep to start the game. And I I I kind I had this feeling a couple times of like the Celtics are on fire. The Wolves look totally out of sorts and it’s still like a six-point lead. Like, it should be a 20-point lead at this point and it’s not. Um, and that was kind of the problem. I think Jaylen obviously had a ridiculous heater to start the game and then he missed like four or five straight shots in the third quarter that were pretty much exactly the same looks he was getting in the first half and that’s just like that’s just how it’s going to go, right? He still had an efficient game overall. But like when that when the heater wore off, I think it’s hard sometimes when one guy has been scoring so much and taking so many of the shots and the other guys nobody else really got in a rhythm, which I don’t I don’t fault Jaylen for that. I think he he did what he had to do in the first half and he wasn’t, you know, he distributed the ball as he could and all that, but it’s hard sometimes to break out of that when that guy then goes a little bit cold and feel like Pade never really got in a rhythm here and Freddy barely took any shots. Derek had a big three late, but he didn’t, you know, he he was not like a big offensive option throughout the game. And then Nicada, who I thought off at the beginning of the first quarter was like so involved offensively, I thought that was the Wolves kind of taking him out of it a little bit. I mean, he had an awesome game tonight, but um just in general, like it was a little too easy for Boston to start and that was just not going to last throughout the game. But yeah, they had a pretty good game plan coming in. They were putting, you know, Minnesota’s guards in a lot of actions. They were dominating those matchups. It was like last year’s Celtics, the way they were going after Connley and Dillingham at times in the first half. And you know, the pick and roll was great for Kada. They definitely got lost in that. They were going at Go Bear. Scout was talking about about that in the first half and I think some combination of obviously the shooting coming back down to earth. Minnesota going zone more in the second half definitely hedging screens a lot more switching up their defensive approach pretty massively after halftime just kept the Celtics stagnant. I feel like every single It was obviously a disastrous second half offensively. Started 49 to 29 I think when it got to its biggest run there. six points in the first eight minutes of the fourth quarter. Some combination of just trying to get a shot off in the half court and man those threes they were taking were long like Minnesota was playing up on them and really forcing them back behind the line. Um definitely got into isolation heavy play and Wolves were bringing some more help on that later. Not enough other guys were getting involved as Noah said there and the offense pretty much just crashed into the ground. This is like the first time this year, I think, John, where the super stagnant just minutes and minutes and minutes of empty possessions piled up on them like we’ve seen from this team at times in the past here. And it’s disappointing because that first half did look like one of their may probably their best performance in a half all year overall. Yeah, definitely offensively. I will say though, like Hower misses two clean looks at a three. GL missed some great mid-range shots that were going in. Like I don’t think it was necessarily that they couldn’t get good shots off in that third quarter. Like it was I think maybe to begin the fourth maybe to begin the fourth was a little bit. Yeah. And they were playing off guys. I found it interesting because they pulled Walsh off the court a bunch in the second half and Charman got some extra opportunities there. They had to get Hower on the court. So I think Joe was really worried about the Wolves just packing it in defensively against them and that’s pretty much what happened there. I like the way they got back to Kada in the pick and roll late, but man, it just got stagnant out there for whatever reason. Probably just because of how much Brown was rolling and they were able to rely on him in that first half. No one else really had to do anything. Yeah. And that’s kind of it. Um, you know, it’s you stop Jaylen or you, you know, Jaylen, you wait for him to cool off and make the other guys beat you. And law of averages says, you know, on this team with this lineup, that’s harder to do. Um, and that’s kind of what happened. Jaylen came back down to earth and, you know, some of the other guys um, who had contributed in that first half weren’t able to. But again, if you’re looking at it as what went wrong in this particular game, yeah, look, Taylor, two halves, I agree with Noah. You know, Timberwolves, there’s always that fear, right? you play a team that’s supposed to be better than you are and they kind of wait, you know, I mean, how many times have you seen the Celtics do the same thing, you know, in in in previous years, play with their food a little bit or maybe come out a little bit flat and then it takes one quarter sometimes and and you just kind of flip the script here. I I guess I’ll just ask you guys outright, you know, coming off the Detroit game, I think a lot of people felt really good about the Celtics, which is like, hey, if this is the best the East has to offer, they’re fine. you know, even if they didn’t win this game, they can they showed they can compete against teams like this. You see a team like Minnesota who again has been struggling. They’re in kind of Bobby had texted during uh during the game. They might be in team meeting mode. You know, they’re kind of like weird team meeting mode. They had one. Yeah. In a in a, you know, in a weird identity crisis sort of thing. They’d started off the season playing well and then everything dipped a little bit. You look at a team like this. Is this team significantly better than the Celtics in in in in your eyes after after watching this game? Definitely. They’re a championship contender and I think you saw that in the fourth quarter. I mean, they’ve been the two straight West finals, so I think by default they are to some degree. Yeah, I to me this is Yeah, I I would be very surprised if this team can contend for a championship. But the biggest reason I didn’t I didn’t feel like there was a huge gap because going into this game, I would have thought that the Celtics front court rotation is just not going to be able to hang with Minnesota’s like Minnesota has one of the biggest front court rotations in the league. You have Rudy Gobear, you have Nas Reed coming off the bench, which is ridiculous. You have Julius Randle and somehow Kada sets a careerhigh for rebounds in this game. Like he finishes with 18, eight offensive rebounds, 19 points. like that was highly encouraging just as far as evaluating these two teams and how they they could face off. And I do give him a lot of the credit and I will fault Minnesota for how they came out out of the gates because something that I think we can do not not just us three but just like in general looking at the Celtics is you focus so much on the team that we’re covering that sometimes I don’t even pay attention that much to how the other team came into the night. And so I’ve been trying to be more aware of it and like I was thinking in the first quarter a lot of it was the Wolves. Um, but Kada can put up this stat line against that front court and it’s a pretty good indicator that this is not Yeah, like I actually think Kada was probably the best big in this game, which is kind of wild, but yeah, the the Rudy concern is always going to loom large come playoff time for a team like this. But if this team isn’t a championship contender, like there there aren’t any outside of Denver and and Oklahoma. And if that’s how you want to feel, that’s fine. But yeah, I mean, put this in the league. Put this team in the East. Are they the best team in the East? Yeah. No, I don’t think so. Maybe I just don’t believe in this team, but we don’t need to. There’s things about this team that I don’t particularly like, but you mentioned Kada versus uh Rudy Gobear, and I tweeted it semi- tongue and cheek during the game, but Ka Kada over Gobear here. Uh tell me why that’s a crazy thing to say in today’s in in in this, you know, today, November 29th, 2025. Is it the craziest thing in the world to say I might rather have Nimish Kada than Rudy Gobar on my team? No. Go ahead. Tell me I’m crazy. I have There’s You won’t find somebody lower on Rudy Goar than me. So I cannot stand Rudy Goar. Yeah. I don’t believe I can’t get you to say something nice. Sorry. I just don’t. But I I can’t get you to say something nice about the Celtics. I’m I’m at a loss here. You’re setting her up. No, I’m just saying I don’t want to be disrespectful about a future Hall of Famer, right? That’s what they say about him. But I would take Ka over him and that maybe that’s insane, but I think at 2 million versus 40 million is the question. They’re also trending in opposite directions right now, which is part of it. Like obviously Gober has had better days than Kada has in this league, but I think they’re trending in opposite directions. And I’m I’m extremely high on where Kada’s headed based on the first 18 games here. like consistently what he’s been putting be being able to do, not just once every four games, but pretty much on a nightly basis. Like I’m extremely high on on his ceiling here. So yeah, and I have a tough time picking one of the two because I haven’t been locked into how Rudy’s playing this year and obviously he’s gone through stretches where he just doesn’t look like he’s effective in the modern game. There’s parts of his game that are game changers and that’s just always been the debate about him. As far as Kada goes, I think you put it well. No, it’s it’s like where’s he stacking up here in the league? and it does seem to get higher and higher with each passing positive performance here for him, especially relative to his contract. And obviously, he’s going to be back next year. And listen, John, regardless of how we feel about Minnesota as a contender or where they rank and where the Celtics rank, what we’ve said over and over again this year is what matters going forward. And Kada by far this year, I know we’ve had our Minot discussions and Walshes and blah blah blah. Kate is the one who has just shot ahead of everybody else in terms of is this an NBA player? Yes. Is this an NBA starter? He looks like it right now like on a above 500 team, you know, or floating right around 500 team. He’s been a massive part of the games they’ve won. And it’s too bad that they didn’t win in a game where he gave you this, which was just out of this world. Awesome to watch, especially coming off the ankle sprain. I mean, he’s just been a revelation. And it’s crazy because like you know how I felt about Luke at times. Luke wasn’t doing this. I never saw Luke do this. Yeah. Uh Yeah. Yeah. Look at I mean look what we’ve done. Look what we’ve done to Bobby. I told you coming into the year he’s the new Luke. Um this is more than Luke. You just you’re you’re slandering Luke. Luke is catching strains for no reason. Wow. And but I mean, look, the the the the two positives you’re going to feed off of this game is, you know, Jaylen Brown had one of the better halves I’ve ever seen him have uh in the first half here. Uh looked unstoppable and it just looked like he was just couldn’t do it all alone in the second half. Coming in too. Impressive. And where Minnesota kind of came back into it is that stretch where they tried to live without him and then they did get him back in the game there. So, I mean, his value uh and how much they needed him out there, especially when the offense stagnated uh was real, but you have to look at all the pieces around him. And again, Brown’s done this on multiple occasions now uh this season where he just goes through stretches where he looks unstoppable and there’s nothing they could do. And the quality of the shot making was just through the roof. Do you remember the stat I threw? I don’t know if I texted it to you, but I threw this out there yesterday or two days ago, whenever it was. He’s second in the league in usage at this point, which is absurd. Yeah. So, that’s that. But, you know, you have to look at the people around him. And again, this is my overall look at kind of the Celtics situation where they’re at right now. You know, are they better than the that people thought they would be? Yes. No question about it. Like, is the floor significantly higher than what we thought it would be? I also think the answer is yes. But I think a lot of it has is not for the reasons we thought it might be where you thought Jaylen Brown could be an alpha. Check. Derek White’s gonna step up. Didn’t happen. Hasn’t happened. Payton Pritchard’s going to be, you know, potential all-star fringe caliber or, you know, like a legitimate whatever. Some nights, yes, some nights, no. Tonight was a really difficult one. Right. Tonight, you needed a little bit more help from those guys and you didn’t get them. You needed Pritchard and White to step up. They were a combined what, three for 16. What happened with Pritchard in this one, Noah? Like I didn’t even notice him out there at times. Pritchard looked like he was struggling to get get anywhere uh where he needed to go. What happened there? Was it just physicality, size, he just couldn’t turn the corner? He he looked like he has just having a difficult time maneuvering around people tonight. Yeah. And I think I think you may have just said this, but like I think his he was being kind of pushed out in the perimeter. So some point attempts were a little deep. Um and then he had a couple of drives where he was normally that’s when he kind of creates separation. He just wasn’t able to create separation. Um, I mean, at their best, this Minnesota team can defend at a high level. And I think he got the he got kind of trapped sometimes by their pressure. Um, I don’t know, you know, I’m sure we’ll discuss it, but I thought Jaden McDaniel was not even specifically on Peyton, but was a big game changer in this one, like the minutes when he was on the floor versus off the floor. He was a plus 24 in this game. There were a couple times where Peyton kind of met up with him, a couple times he was it was Jaylen that was on the other side of that. But yeah, this was a perfect example of like them just needing more from the back court and and yeah, games where Peyton and Derek are aggressive and have an early rhythm and are hitting threes, this team looks like they have a pretty high ceiling offensively, but the the Jaylen Jaylen Brown going for 40, like that’s not sustainable. It’s usually a bad recipe. Yeah. I mean, I don’t I don’t follow at all. He had a great he had a great game in this one, but it’s just not it’s not going to be enough, right? like it’s it’s very rarely going to be enough to have just that be your source of offense. You’re you’re immune, Bobby. But but in addition to that is, you know, you you were relying on you’re relying on three guys to get the bulk of the offense here and two of them, as you said, were ineffective between them. I’m doing the math here. 62 out of 96 field goal attempts came from those three guys. Pritchard Brown and Brown jacking 32 shots again even though he he was awesome and scored 41 points and was certainly in that first half remarkably efficient. Five of 11 from three as well. Uh you know uh you know really really solid a couple turnovers late but for the most part he he took care of the beginning of the game too. Um, how many times are we gonna say it too? Like the the shots they are hitting to begin. They come into tonight fifth in offense, John. And the way they’re do last and free, they’re hard shots. The shot profile is difficult there. So, so this is where you’ve kind of got, you know, this is where you’re stuck a little bit, right? You’ve got Kada and he was playing really well uh here and, you know, he held his own. Minnesota’s a team that’s got size. You can you can’t really do the small ball lineup against these guys. They tried a couple of times, but it’s kind of difficult. But again, here’s your problem. When you don’t have your other offensive players clicking, it’s hard to find help other places. Jordan Walsh, who I thought was freaking phenomenal in the first half defensively, really bothered Ant. They threw a lot of bodies at him. Uh Walsh was there on the front line. I thought they did a really good job, but he’s a starter who scored zero points for you. And you know, there’s a quick hook for him in that second half where they go to Sherman. And I I forgot to check the fouls at that point, but he finished with four total. I don’t know what that gave him. Was that his third or fourth foul when he picked up early in the third? He picked one up early in the third. A really dumb one that had nothing to do, you know, with uh with the play itself. Came off there. Yeah, that was only his third foul, but he it was a quick hook there. I’m not sure. What do you think Joe was seeing there that he didn’t like? Because I thought he was really important in the first half. I I thought throughout the second half they wanted to just make Minnesota guard that guy because if you’re going to have Rudy on the court, he’s going to be ignoring somebody to to play in that drop and it just looked like they didn’t want to have Walsh out there who wasn’t going to be guarded. And they ignored Shyman, too. And you know, he played aggressive at times out there, but they couldn’t find someone to beat the Wolves from that fifth spot where the Wolves are just going to leave a guy out there. And they were, you know, Hower came in late. Those two shots Noah mentioned were just killers that he missed. One was in transition. I think one was in the half court. Feels like he’s done that a lot this year and he he has struggled to shoot a little bit to begin this year. Probably a small sample that I’m not going to freak out about, but I can just remember time after time after time this year where he shoots a big three in an important spot with tons of space and misses it. So, you know, not throwing this game on him there, but you got to have at least one of those. I feel like Shyman, what does he end up with in this one? um didn’t see a ton from him in terms of being the defense had three points for shooting. Sam, another kind of game changers there is that Sam was was shooting well early on. So that was that was a a turning point like he you know he had I think 11 points in the first half um and then kind of went a little cold there in the second. So well that yeah game plans for the second half. This felt like this felt like a game Joe was searching for it a little bit in that second half and he didn’t quite find it. Right. You know what? I’ll say this too. Like I keep praising Missoula John and I’m saying like man so many games you have the edge at coach. It feels like he’s just ahead of the curve. Like the other guy on the other sideline doesn’t know what he’s doing. Chris Finch is really good especially defensively. Like they know what they’re doing on that side and they made some really good adjustments into the second half. And a lot of it comes down to our shots going to go in or out in those situations when you make those kinds of hedges and decisions. But that’s what happened there. And obviously the guys that they ignored or left space to on the def on the offensive side for the Celtics weren’t able to hit their shots. I felt like they crowded Brown a lot after halftime. He was playing in crowds. He was kicking the ball out to other guys. And those guys couldn’t beat the Wolves rotations. And like Noah mentioned too, McDaniels monster just able to take an assignment and shut it out. That’s such a plus when you’re playing such a good team scheme, too. So again, you have to look at it. This is this is going to ultimately be I wouldn’t say the downfall, but this is this is where the Celtics are always going to struggle. If you don’t have Brown, if you have Brown go off, I think it’s as easy as this. If he cools off or he has an off night, the other guys have to pick you up. And if they can’t, this team can’t win. They can’t beat good teams, right? That’s going to be the problem there is all of the other guys doing the things that they’re doing are all beyond our expectations, right? The contributions they’re getting currently from Walsh, the level of play they’re getting from Kada, who was a question mark entering the season, my not being a valuable player, u these are all well beyond I think what was what we could logically expect from a lot of these guys. So that’s I think what’s kept them afloat here is the that’s why I think the floor is higher because the guys who could have been zeros have been contributing. You’re simply not getting enough from the guys who aren’t Jaylen Brown that need to be picking you up on a consistent basis. And I think that that’s going to be the killer for this team. either White and Pritchard are going to start doing it regularly um and being there and potentially even able to carry on some nights which we’ve seen uh or it’s going to be against good teams it’s going to be uh nights like this. Yeah, I was going to say exactly that. That to me feels like the big X factor of the season is can this back court figure it out both together because I think that’s an underrated component of like they have not been the starting back court together. So it’s a little bit of developing that chemistry too, but then also just shooting wise. They both came into the season as two of the best three-point shooters, high volume three-point shooters on the team. And last year Derrick set the franchise record for threes made. And we’ve seen like we can talk all we want about Derrick’s shot profile, but when he’s feeling it like he did in the fourth quarter of that Pistons game, who cares about the shot profile, right? Like he was shooting well. And so tonight, I feel like it was just another example of and it was more Peyen, but com, you know, they combined for three for 16 from three. It’s just like that’s the one thing that I I had over projected for this team. Like I think everything else is exactly as I kind of forecasted. The Jail season that he’s having is exactly kind of what I anticipated. like you said, John, like the exhilarating characters, like they’ve all been positive and all the most recent draft picks and everything, but I thought one of those guys was gonna be an all-star this season. I picked Derek entering the year, but I thought one of those guys was going to be an all-star, and neither of them are anywhere near that conversation after the kind of shooting start they had. So, I I don’t know. I still feel like it’s going to turn around, but at a certain point, not maybe I’ll be wrong. I don’t know. That’s And look, no, I thought so, too. And I still I’ll contend I I I still very much believe Derek White as an all-around player, his value to the team is through the roof. And he’s been awesome as an all-around player. Like he’s been a great he’s still been an outstanding all-around player. Uh team defender, what he does, blocking shots, all of those things, you know, he makes the right play. It’s just simply he has to be the number two scoring option on a consistent basis and potentially sometimes be the number one and he’s not. And right now Derek White still is an outstanding player but who looks like a number three or four scoring option on a good team and Payton Pritchard still looks like a bench a sixth man on on on a good team. And so they have not elevated in their new roles. They haven’t that was what we kind of hinged a lot of the season on. This is why a little bit of the dialogue with and again I don’t want to get into the same conversations we had about like I knew they’d be because it’s the same I don’t want to get the same tired conversation but I do think there’s the they’re going to be better than we think conversation was based on not getting good not the my not uh success and not the not you know not Kada being really good and some of those other things that we mentioned that were you know that are pleasant surprises it was based on those guys stepping up their game big time. And if you’re going to look at the story of the season right now, I think that that’s kind of it. I think those are the two parts of it. It’s those guys aren’t haven’t stepped into those roles yet. And I don’t know if they’ll ever be able to and the other guys have really kept them afloat at the bottom there by playing by playing really really well. And and again, I’ll give credit where it’s due. And I not that it’s a difficult thing for me to say, but the Missoula has done an excellent job. I think I think a lot of times people are like, “Oh, Joe’s rotations and this and that.” I don’t think there’s great options out there. I think he’s always got to experiment and see what fits and see what works because it’s never going to be great with this with this with this personnel grouping. He’s always going to There’s no perfect solutions here. Sometimes something works, sometimes it doesn’t. The the amazing thing with them is they almost play to miss shots and their offensive rebounding numbers are great. You look at this game, 14 to five on the offensive glass. That’s a win. But you’re grabbing so many offensive rebounds and you’re so great in that department because you’re missing tons of shots. And that’s the team you have right now. Like they do not have a lot of great shooting lower on the roster. And so for their offensive creators, yeah, they’re running into more traffic because those guys don’t have to be guarded. Those guys don’t draw defensive attention the same way Porzingis and Horford and guys like that did in the past. That just puts more pressure on the offensive creators and there aren’t as many. It’s Brown, Pritchard, White. So that’s it. And then Simons who’s been relegated and another segment about Simons. I I don’t want to have the segment about him because I think everyone’s confusing what I’m saying about it, but I do want to ask you guys a question about it. Uh which we will in just a minute. But first off, quick shout out to our pals over at Prize Picks, our sponsors here. Number one daily fantasy sports app in all of North America. And again, great time of year, lot of action, a lot of fun stuff to focus on. Uh, whatever season uh you’re locked in on, basketball, hockey, football, uh, check it out. Number one daily fantasy sports app in all of North America. 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Flex play, uh injury reboots in case somebody gets hurt. Uh you don’t have to worry about that. And again, Prize Pix is where it’s at. So check it out. Uh one more time, code CLNS after you download that app, get 50 in your lineups when you play your first $5 lineup. There it is right there. Prize picks. It’s good to be right. Um, so I’ll bring it back to you and again I I want to be perfectly clear on this because I I think people misunderstand it. I think Anthony Simons has been kind of not great. Um, you know, a few streaks here, period. Offensively, I think he’s just dribbling and not doing much. I don’t think he’s beating defenders off the dribble where I think he should be or at least be trying to. But let me get all the way through this, okay? I I want to be perfectly clear. I don’t love I don’t love a lot of what I’ve seen from what’s happened with him, but given the obvious issues you have through this period, which is you need somebody to help out Brown consistently and probably your best pure offensive player on this team, just offense only. Maybe not all the way around, but a person who can fill it up is Simons. He’s not perfect. He’s not. He might not even be good, but he can score. He can shoot. I still do question at what point is Joe going to try to approach this differently and say, I got to see what I can squeeze out of this guy. I don’t love the player. I don’t love the fit. I don’t love it on this particular team. He’s not what I need, but I got to find a way to squeeze some more offense out of there to consistently to give Jaylen Brown help. So, I got to find a way to make his minutes more impactful than they currently are. That’s all I’m asking about in the Simon situation because it feels like there are certain nights where he might as well not even exist based on his usage or how he’s used with the lineups that he’s playing and he gets his little stint and nothing happens and then he’s gone and you see at the end of the night it’s 15 minutes and he’s taken three shots. That doesn’t make sense to me. You’re either going to use him or you’re not going to use him. And if the answer’s not, then pray them, attach a pick to it, and just save the money. But if he’s on your team, I don’t understand not trying to figure out a way to maximize the minutes uh off of there. Is there anything that can be done differently here with him to try to generate a little bit more offense? Yeah, I think you’re I think I mostly agree with what you said there, John. And to be honest with you, the way I look at it is that if you view him as a net as a negative on defense, which I think they do, and a positive on offense, and that’s the tugof-war when he’s in there, I would like to see him get more shots off, right? Not to like oversimplify it, but he takes four in his 17 minutes. To me, it’s kind of like a waste, right? Like like in those 17 minutes, you’re only getting four shots off. One of those was like he got a a ball with a clock winding down. He actually scored on it, but it was not it was a broken play that he he, you know, found a way to put the ball in the basket, but they’re not, it doesn’t seem like they’re really running much for him or he’s much of a priority on offense at times. There are stretches where it feels that way, but tonight it didn’t at all. Um, and so I know we had over we had discussed that Jail Brown quote from a couple weeks ago when I had asked him about him being, you know, and Simons and kind of getting getting excited when Simons get going and he said, you know, we have to keep an open mind about it. And I think that got interpreted as like maybe it’s about him starting, but more likely it’s just I think it’s about just him being a bigger focal point when he’s on the floor offensively. And I don’t know how much that is um I’ll go back and rewatch, but I don’t know how much of how much that is is on the coaching and on the play calling, how much it is on the players for basically saying is on the floor like he is he’s here for one reason, right? He’s here to score the ball. Um I don’t know, but I agree with you like they’re not getting a a ton out of him at the at this moment. And I also, yeah, I don’t know how much the long-term plans have anything to do with it at all. Like, if Joe’s been told like if Joe’s been told like, “We’re probably going to trade the guy in February or before the deadline.” Like, does that influence his decision- making? I don’t think so. I don’t know. It’s something that’s just been in the back. I don’t think so. I think it’s more about cuz No, I think look at it the flip side, right? We’ve said all along like if the if if the Celtics, you know, were viewing this as a developmental year, which is wins and losses don’t matter. um let’s make sure we’re getting the young guys in there and giving them some run, you know, and and and and and not really concern ourselves with winning every single night. Joe would be coaching a lot differently right now. Jaylen would have sat out a couple of games already. Like, it’s very clear that Joe Missoula is coaching to win. That’s what he knows how to do. That’s what he’s been told to do. Here’s what we’re giving you. Make it work. And in his mind, this is how it’s working for him. And honestly, like you can’t argue with the results. They’re better to this they’re better to this point in the season than I thought they would be. So, it’s not questioning it. It’s just simply I don’t know what you’re doing. Like, it seems weird to waste an asset. In the same way, this isn’t quite analogous, but like I don’t think you utilize Drew Holiday to his fullest while he was here. He played a particular role based on what they thought they needed on this team, but you didn’t get the most out of Holiday. Certainly not last year. Just camping him out on the three-point line. you took away a lot of the things that he can do well, but that’s just what fit on this team for Simons because it’s an ill-fitting team. You don’t want to play three guard lineups. You have some problems in the front court. He’s playing behind both uh White and Pritchard at this moment. There aren’t great solutions to how you would use him or how you would get him more minutes or how you would get him involved more. So, it’s a weird problem and I understand why sometimes he’s the odd man out in a lot of these scenarios. Joe’s looking at the court and saying, “Well, I’m going to play these guys instead, and I need some athleticism and rebounding and defense, and he’s not giving me that. So, I’m not going three guards here ever.” Uh, and that’s that. And so, I get it. I get it. It just really is you’re not you’re getting next to nothing out of him. And again, when we looked at this season at the beginning of the season, what did we think? And this is why again it’s weird that the Celtics are here as successful as they are because some of the things we thought White stepping up into an all-star sort of level role and being a legitimate number two scoring option. Payton Pritchard absolutely proving that he’s a a legit NBA starter in this league and a bucket getter coming off the bench in Anthony Simons who’s going to actually help things and those things haven’t happened right now. Um, and that’s that’s, you know, kind of weird to me that you’re that, you know, we’re in this position with Simons and nobody knows nobody knows what to do with him. I’m not advocating for more minutes. I think he’s been not great, you know, not great. Yeah. And I I don’t always think it’s can do stuff, you know, like to we figure out how to get him to do that. We’re having the same combo, but it’s weird. Honestly, it comes down to one thing for me, and this is why I obsess about it a little bit, is there’s nothing more important in basketball than shooting, especially for this team. the way they they run offense and try to score. It’s all about shooting and he’s their best shooter I think at least this year statistically from three. So, you’re not having him on the floor enough. You’re not having him in those positions to finish possessions and obviously he brings a level of creation. I know you’ve liked his passing at times. There’s a lot offensively you can take advantage of with his game. But there’s there’s three problems. And the first is why I make the Schroer comparison. and they’re trying to do different things to win that he doesn’t do. Like I think they have bigger priorities than just getting a shooter on the floor and running some stuff for him. They do have to run some stuff for him because he’s always going to be playing with a white pitcher or Brown and those guys are going to have the ball more often than not. Maybe what you can say and this is what I keep saying is you can probably make him a little bit more interchangeable with Pritchard. And I keep stressing that Pritchard’s had the better year. Pritchard does more things than Simons does across the board as a basketball player, but the things you need right now, Pritchard isn’t giving you super consistently. And Simons is at least comparable enough to where you say, “All right, it shouldn’t be a slam dunk that Pritchard’s playing the big moments or more minutes than Simons on any given night.” I know that’s been a pull and tug with the fan base all year. I am team Pritchard, but it has veered a little bit too much in the Pritchard direction. But can we have the conversation this way? And uh Noah, tell me if I’m crazy here. I think Pritchard’s an overall better player. Uh and and he does more for you. I also think Pritchard is better at creating his own shot. Uh and we’ve seen him and we saw him what he was able to do with the mid-range uh and uh you know, when the three wasn’t falling earlier in the season. He’s better at creating separation. He’s more physical. Um so I like what he does there. Simons, where has he where has Simons been his best this year? In catch-and shoot opportunities. I I I do start to wonder whether it makes s everyone just assumes if you start a guy that means you like him better than the other guy. But I am starting to question in terms of roles whether Simons might fit with the starters better there where if feeding off of Jaylen’s gravity and getting more catch and shoot opportunities where he can absolutely fill it up and and and create space. Not like Pritchard can’t do that. where Pritchard is more of a let me dribble a lot until I can find my shot uh sort of guy which might work a little bit better on a second unit where it’s like okay just you’re the offense now because Simons has tried to step into that Pritchard role and he can’t do it. He that’s not his game. He’s just dribbling dribbling dribbling and going nowhere. He’s not turning the corner on different players everyone’s standing around when Simons has the ball and not doing anything. It it it it doesn’t it’s an ill fit. So I do wonder simply if if that’s a switch that unlocks both of them a little bit more rather than saying like oh got benched which is how people would look at it which I think is incorrect. A couple things. So on the shot creation piece, this is just from the eye test. I’m not sure if the analytics would would support this, but it seems to me like Simons can can get his shot off and any broken play. There have been a couple times, I think both of his baskets tonight came when they had nothing going for them, he can always get that crazy one foot thing go whatever, you know, the couple moves that he goes to. It’s he can pretty much get it at at any point if he wants to. Um, and it’s not always the best shot. Pritchard has like his few moves that work very well for him, but sometimes you just can’t get them off. So overall, like I have I probably would lean like Pritchard’s offensive game because those few moves are highly efficient. But at times like at moments tonight and and sometimes in big playoff series and I know a lot of fans have complained about his ability to score against like elite defenses, it seems to me like it is a more stoppable offensive bag. That’s just from watching that might not be. Who has a more stoppable bag? Pritcher does like Simons has this ability to score off of these broken offensive plays, which is why I feel like he’s in an unfair spot because sometimes he’ll get four shots off and they’re all in a terrible spot, you know, like they’re all, you know, with the clock winding down and Jaylen’s already tried to score three times and now they kick it out to him and it’s like, “Oh god, there’s three seconds left.” And he can create that space like he has that ability. That being said, and I I know everybody thinks that I can’t look at Pritchard objectively because I believed in him as a as a player starting two years ago, but objectively the noise around his season to me is just disproportional to the product that we’ve actually seen on the floor. You look at his his LA, this is his last 10 games. I just pulled up his stats. 17.9 points per game. He’s shooting 47.3% from the field, 43.8% 8% from three, 4.7 assists, and 1.5 turnovers a game. Like, him and Derek have done an exceptional job of not turning the ball over, and after a really ice cold start to the year, he’s he’s been efficient the second half of this 19 game stretch. It was really like the first seven games where he was really struggling offensively. So, I I’m not I’m I’m not like alleging that he’s playing at an all-star level. He’s definitely not. But I just don’t view like he has one bad game and everybody starts to have this feeling of like this isn’t a starter level player which I know and I know it’s not you John that’s saying this but just that’s I feel like that’s the No, it’s a quick trigger. Yeah, a lot of people the I don’t know and this happen this is not him alone like I think there are certain players that I don’t know if it’s where they came from or what they were a few years ago or if it’s their literally like physical build but for some reason people just look at their game by-game performances a little bit too closely in a way. Um, and I think he’s been he’s done a fine job honestly as their starting guard and especially if Anthony Simons is not here to stay, which again I don’t know if that’s true. But imagine if the organization’s plan is to shed his salary before the year ends. So what Joe is going to move Anthony to the starting lineup, potentially disrupt like Pritchard’s flow here as he’s acclimating to starting role only to then trade him in in two months, you know, like that has to be a part of the calculus when making those kinds of decisions. I don’t think Joe chose to start Pritchard because he was told we might trade Simons. But at this point in the game, 19 games in to make that move if you don’t have that longer term assurance. Like I think it’s less about and more like the flow of the game’s going, Pritchard can’t get his shot off. Simons, you know, they get into the sequence, the the moment he came into the game in that first quarter, they gave up five straight baskets. I have to look back. I doubt it was all him or you know even a significant portion of him. But that lineup just isn’t great defensively coming in with Garz and Simons. They do it every night and then Joe’s calling timeout. They start switching some things around. They get away from Simons in most matchups for whatever reason. And then it’s Pritchard and White the rest of the night. And that that’s fine. Those guys have played better than Simons this year. But that’s just how every game seems to be going right now where that second unit doesn’t work for whatever reason. They’re going back to the guys that they trust and who have been a little more consistent and stable. And Simons is on the sideline like, you know, talking to Sam Castell again trying to figure out what he’s doing here. And it’s like he’s in a brutal position. He is. And I I commend him for how he’s handled it. I think he’s been exceptional for how he’s adjusted to their system, tried to fit in, be passive to defer those other guys. But the question we keep asking is, are you getting the most out of him? And you know, I’m looking at him and Pritchard stats this year in terms of the efficiency. It’s pretty even. Like these guys have had very similar seasons when it comes to their efficiency offensively. I just keep stressing that when you look at spot-up shooting, Simons is through the roof. He’s in the 88th percentile of the league. This is one of the best shooters in basketball and you’re getting him four shots in a game like this where you just dying for shooting. Like, I get it. You’re you’re playing a defensive first style this year. Everything’s turnovers. Everything’s ball control. Everything’s about the guys you trust. I get that’s where Missoula’s head is at, but there’s a guy making $28 million for a reason on the bench. And he’s a matchup guy right now. That’s that’s literally where he’s at. Is this a good matchup for him or is this not? He’s like Jordan Walsh and uh you know Josh Minard. It’s like those three guys and and Simons. And I get it, right? He plays guard. He doesn’t play wing. But it’s just frustrating that we’re gonna get to the end of the road here whenever this does end. And I agree with you, Noah, it’s probably not going to be here in Boston where he plays next. But he’s gonna go somewhere else and just put up some massive scoring numbers. What I will say, Noah, the the the flip side to what you’re saying in terms of if they know if if he’s been told he’s not going to be here, what’s the point of developing him or utilizing him? uh you know the conversely if he’s not going to be here because they want to trade him uh wouldn’t you think that part of the part of the strategy would be let’s build up a little value here uh and you’ve seen teams do that which is showcasing players uh right now you you’re going to have to attach like three first rounders to them to get I mean before it was like the they probably didn’t trade him in the offseason because they didn’t want to give us they wouldn’t they didn’t want to attach a second round pick to I think trading him would be stupid by the way if you’re just giving up a first and getting nothing like sour expire. I mean, I think trading any good player is stupid, but if the ownership gives you a directive that you have to trade 20 million all all of your books, you’re probably going to do something that’s going to make the team worse, right? Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, uh well, well, right now it’s Simons or Hower in a minimum, as you know, Scott’s report indicated and you know, we haven’t mentioned on the show here, but Michael Scott reported that there is at least buzz around the league that um or an expectation around the league that the Celtics might have to get below that tax line. And there are two ways to do it. Simons or hower and some other money moving around here. And it’s funny because there are other ways to do it too, but those have never been mentioned. Like what? You know, like you could trade Derek White. You could trade Peyton Pritchard. You could trade like that where you’re going. I’m not I’m not going anywhere. I’m just saying it’s funny that like there are two ways they’re allowed to get below the below the line. Like you could trade Jul. I mean I’ve been saying it too. It’s just like those seem like the likely ways, but I’ve also learned in this business that the unlikely things happen all the time. So, who knows? Yeah, no doubt about it. Um, I want to uh take a quick pause to let everybody know here we’ve got a deal, a Cyber Monday deal. And look at those handsome fellas wearing hard hats. Oh my god, those missing guys. Um, I think it’s great. You can get some CLNS merch. You can grab your Garden Report hard hats on sale limited time. uh marked down from 50 down to $35 right now. Uh these are actually pretty cool. They’re pretty quality. They’re legit. Like you could wear them on a work site. Uh that sale runs through December 1st. Uh I’m not I’m not saying do that. Actually, don’t do that. Uh don’t if you actually work construction, don’t don’t use this instead. There’s going to be some guys showing up to work saying John said. But they are the guy with a nail in his no. Uh, but don’t miss that chance to get the ultimate Garden Report fan accessory this Cyber Monday. Head to shop.clnsdia.com. Grab your hard hat before they are all gone. And please, we’ve said this before, anybody wearing any Garden Report merch to a Celtics game, take a picture, send it to us. We want to put it on our social media. We want to celebrate it. I’d love to fill the garden with hard hats. Um, I think that would be great. Um, here. And someone put this in uh you know before the uh before the show began while I was just waiting and looking at the chat. Was this a hard hat loss? What? You heard me. What’s a hard hat loss? Like it’s a hard hat loss that they play they played their butts off against a good team on the road. Oh, okay. If you’re evaluating like how do I feel about the how good a team is, this is probably because I feel better about them after this game. That’s why I’m hyping up Minnesota now. like they’re great and in the fourth quarter my biggest takeaway was this is a great team that reached their level. They did not enter the game at that level as you said no the first quarter was a joke what they were doing and then by the end of it that’s why they are a great team at times and listen if you watched uh Timberwolves Thunder the other night like the Thunder are this invincible machine who wins by 20 every night and Shay doesn’t play a second in the fourth quarter Minnesota pushed them down the wire there and I think every team in the west that gauntlet out there looks at a Minnesota and says uh we’ll probably beat them but it’s going to be six seven games and it’s going to be really hard and there’s just going to be all kinds of challenges along the way in a series like like that’s what I’m trying to emphasize here is like are they a championship contender? Are they going to win the title? No. But they’re one of the five six best teams in the league. Wait, I thought you said they were a championship contender. If that No, I’m saying if that’s what you want to say, fine. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. They’re can we agree they’re one of the five six best teams in the league? They haven’t played like it so far this season. So that’s why I’m hesitant to say that’s true. I I don’t know. I don’t know what they are, but I would say I mean they were 10 and eight entering tonight. So, let’s just like, you know, if you looked at this season, um, and you were, you know, if you looked at the schedule, you’re circling this as a like very likely L. Um, I thought they might set Jaylen just because of that. And it’s a West team. Yeah. Jaylen’s not going to sit often this year. That’s become very clear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He’s not sitting. But, I mean, I would have thought this was an L. I would have thought Detroit is an L. So again, talking about globally, like, you know, what do I feel about this team after these two games? And I kept saying it, you know, kind of rolling my eyes at some of these wins against, you know, teams that were short-handed or blah, blah, blah, you know, or these bottom feeders and racking up like big offensive efficiency numbers like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. It doesn’t matter. We’re going to learn a lot about this team during this little stretch. I’ve learned a lot about them through two games right now. Uh I’m I feel much better about the state of things just in terms of their ability to compete uh after these last two games than I have at any other point in this season. That’s fair. Yeah, for sure. And I think that’s what we’re learning about this team. We’re going to yo-yo. We’re going to have win. They’re great. Which is why I don’t react to every win and loss. I just don’t think it’s I don’t think there’s a point in it, you know? Like we have to have a good sense of what they are. And that’s why I do lean on I I do lean I know you keep making fun of us for it, but I do lean on some of the bigger picture statistics with them where they’re fifth in offense and they’re, you know, floating around the top half of the league in defense that’s starting to slip. And I, you know, I mentioned earlier that it’s the rebounding like they they can’t just not rebound ever and give up points every time they don’t rebound and expect to be a great defense. That’s where that’s heading. But um there is something going on right now here where they’re great at forcing turnovers. They keep controlling that battle. The shooting’s been rough, but they’re managing that and they’re competing in pretty much all these games against everybody. There aren’t many games I’d go into, maybe the Thunder for one, where I’d say like they don’t have a chance. 100% chance loss, right, Bobby? There’s no night this year where I’m going to say they have a 100. Well, maybe if a couple guys are out, but they won without Kada against Detroit. Thank you. So yeah, I don’t Our heads are spinning. Do you feel if you were gonna concisely say who are they Noah, how would you say it concisely? That’s a challenge for me. Um, fine. It doesn’t have to be concisely. We can go. A team that a team that plays very hard. Sorry for you. No. A team that plays very hard that is going to most likely get a big offensive performance from Jaylen Brown. um and that is most likely going to struggle on the glass at times. Like that’s kind of been the three things that have been consistent. I thought I think literally except for maybe one or two games, they’ve been the harder playing team this season. Um I love the defense. I love kind of what they’ve implemented there. But honestly, this is not really your question, but the biggest thing I keep thinking as we’re now 19 games into the season, they have to get to the line more to be like, okay, that’s that’s the one thing that it feels like it has to be fixed. the rebounding thing. There’s some concessions you make. I rewatched the Detroit Pistons game and they were better in the minutes where they went small ball because of how much they exploited that on the offensive end. It’s like you live with that, right? But with the free throws, like I feel like you just have to find a way to to get to the line more. Like that’s the literally not what you asked me, but that’s where I landed. No, I’m glad you said that. And I don’t know what the answer is there. Like I think in all our minds we say drive, get to the line, it’ll draw contact, but I don’t not getting those calls though. I think Jaylen’s like he’s in the doghouse with the officials. I actually like do think that he is right to complain about this, but it’s becoming like the boy who cried wolf. Like he’s mad every single time he drives to the basket. So I think they’re just kind of like we’re done with you because he is not he is not getting a fair whistle. Can you imagine if they lost that game on Wednesday after that call where their heads would be at with the refs as a team? Oh my god. Yeah. I so the the the whistle stuff I I hate I think I never look at a game and I’m like wow are superstars not getting the superstar whistle. I just think no one should get a superstar whistle. A lot of superstars get it though. It’s I know. But it’s just like I I I a foul is a foul is a foul. I I hate the notion that oh blank gets that call like well if it’s not a foul it’s not a foul. So, I never look at it that way. I’m not saying it’s wrong. Like, Tatum, I think, doesn’t get a favorable whistle, and I’ve I’ve I’ve expressed why. I think he gets under the ref’s skin, and they don’t give him the benefit of the doubt. I also think sometimes he doesn’t go strong or gets a little cute with it, and he doesn’t, you know, he doesn’t force contact, and he wants the he wants the call anyway. And he hasn’t earned it. So, that’s why I think sometimes that happens. Brown though, it’s strange he doesn’t get the calls because he does barrel into people and he is playing with physicality and he goes hard for and I find it really strange because normally someone draws as much contact or or throws himself into bodies the way that Brown does. Normally you get those calls. I I get why Tatum doesn’t get it. I’m actually a little bit confused that Brown isn’t because there is contact there. Uh which is strange. Tatum Tatum’s asking for fouls when he hasn’t been touched. you know, Brown is at least there’s mutual contact there whether he’s generating it or not. So, this is the thing. So, I went back on Thanksgiving Thanksgiving night and I rewatched his rim misses as I did. I don’t have extended family in Boston. So, I rewatched his like his misses around the rim and I think there’s two things. One, and this is not just the jail and I’ve said this before about Giannis Jokic, the bigger stronger guys in the league get officiated differently. I truly believe that that there is like an optics to it where like Derek or Peyton or Anthony like the same contact that the refs would blow the whistle for those guys they just won’t for Jaylen just because of build like I he doesn’t flop enough either. He doesn’t flop enough but the other thing is that he is so fed up now with the officials that it seems like he’s now driving to the basket to prove a point of like look how I’m going to get hit and you’re still not going to call it. And then sometimes he finishes and then he runs down the court after the makes like what is this like shrugging and then I heard him yelling last game. Yeah. And then other times he’s barreling in and there’s some contact but it’s like he wasn’t actually trying to finish the the layup like like he was driving with the intent to draw the foul. And so it’s like he’s almost proving like that like a good oldfashioned like shove or a push or like a slap on the wrist is not what officials are really looking for. They’re looking for when you like get a guy, you know what I mean? Like you know when like Pritchard gets a guy or like when SJ gets a guy. Yeah. That’s like So I think this his whole approach right now is like he’s just drawing so much contact, but it’s like not that clever. Like he’s just barreling in. Guys are hitting him and then they’re just like, “Oh, we’re not going to give you that call every time.” That sounds like oversimplistic. That’s literally what I what I’ve seen when I’ve gone back to look at his like his drives. So I don’t think that he’s getting a fair whistle. I also think that it happens to a lot of stars. He’s not alone in that. I think there there’s just different guys are perceived differently by officials, but it’s a little bit of a challenge because he is the guy that should be going to the line 12 times a night and he’s not. Um, and so that has to change and then everybody else Yeah, it’s everybody else honestly. Nobody else is driving the basket. They don’t drive like and that’s why Kada more Kada because when Kada’s involved offensively, they have another layer. Shot a ton tonight. Yeah, he he he getting hit on the roll and they don’t roll and I’m just gonna keep saying it. Like it annoys me honestly. Like I hate it. We’re just never gonna not we but the Celtics are never going to roll. They’re never going to cut. They’re never going to run. It’s just mid-rangers and threes. You’re just going to shoot jump shots all game and pray that they go like there’s no variation in the offense. You can’t have a little bit of a mix here. I know that they’re limited on their personnel, but you become a little bit predictable. You become a little easier to guard. You end up with this free throw deficit. And honestly, I feel like the biggest thing they’ve conceded this year know is that as Joe has said, they’re going to foul to force turnovers. And great, I’ve loved the turnover differential thing that they’ve done here. But they are following like crazy. They never get fouled. And it’s pretty much, John, like you’re starting the I forget who said this. I wish I could credit them because it’s so well said. It’s like you’re starting the game down by seven or eight, you know, whatever the free throw differential ends up being on any given night. And they lose it every single night. There’s not a question. You can go into a game. No, there might not be a 100% chance you’re going to lose the game, but there’s a 100% chance every single night that the Celtics going to lose the free throw battle. I have to check it actually. They might have like one tie or one win at this point, but they lose the free throw battle every single night. And I don’t know how to fix that, John. I don’t have an easy answer for how you get to the free throw line more. I think Joe’s even said in the past, you can’t control what they call, but they do not get to the free throw line. You’re a you’re you’re a team that lives in the mid-range uh or shooting threes, you’re not getting the line a lot. It just is what it is, you know, like Kada got fouled a bit, you know, and he’s in there and he’s mixing it up and he’s, you know, getting shots in the paint. Brown, yeah, while he does go to the hole, he’s making a lot of his living with step backs and fallaways in that mid-range there. So yeah, I mean, you know, you have foul merchants like SGA who are trying to draw fouls on those jumpers and this and that, but is that what Jaylen He’s doing it differently. That’s the that’s frustrating to me is that he’s trying to get a guy in the air and trick a guy. He’s not trying to shoot. He’s trying to draw five, right? But Jaylen is just like, I’m going to go to the basket and you’re going to hit me. And the refs are like, but it was like it was almost like it was too straightforward or something. But yeah, Pritchard Pritchard to it when they’re when they’re when they’re they’re not doing it old fashioned way. They’re not trying to draw fouls. They’re trying to get separation and score, you know, and and other people are are are very much less concerned with the ball going in and draw more drawing contact. It’s just not in their game. So, again, can Joe coach that? Can he teach it and say, “Guys, let’s just try to get let’s try to get these guys in the penalty a little bit more. Let’s try to do some up fakes. Just throw your body into people, draw some fouls, you know, like I you know, I don’t know if that’s a just make it a point of emphasis if it’s really important to them to don’t worry as much about getting a clean shot. Let’s see if we can draw some contact on this. But look, we say that and how frustrating it is is it watching Tatum try to draw fouls versus trying to go hard. I It’s might be my least favorite thing to to to Hasn’t the season though. Hasn’t the season made you appreciate Tatum a little more? Not really. I feel like you always appreciate Tatum. Yeah, it there’s no question what he does, you know? Like I mean, he’s Oh, I thought you meant that differently. No, I mean this it doesn’t doesn’t Tatum is clear. I mean like what are we talking about here? Like the not these conversations aren’t I’m saying there are parts of his game there are parts of his game that get taken for granted rebounding more than I yeah the rebounding the defense the switchability and and also just the gravity. I do think that certain players you would lose some things because everything would be revolving around Tatum as it often does offensively. However, I do think his gravity would open up things. You know who I think would benefit the most from him is Simons. Like I think he I think he he him playing alongside Tatum would help him a ton here. Um and we’ve seen how many wins would they have with we’ve seen how much Derek White has. We’ve seen how much Pton Pritchard has like those guys and again we’re back to the original conversation we had at the start of the year. everyone stepping up a a role or two beyond what they’re comfortable. All of a sudden, those guys slot back down into their normal roles with Tatum on the court. And you’re going to get Derek White blow up games, more Pton Pritchard games, more Anthony Simons games w with Tatum on the court. But without him there, it’s going to be harder uh on all of those guys because they just have to kind of singularly go off. And we’ve seen Simons do it. We saw White do it last game. It’s just harder. It’s harder for them to do How many wins would they have with Tatum? You think, Noah? Um, probably they’re probably 15 and four. 19. That’s what I was thinking. Four or five. Yeah, they’re probably 15 and four. The close games in particular, I feel like he’d be making a big difference in losing right now. Yeah, just for sure. I mean, just talk about the first three games of the season where they couldn’t get a rebound. Like, they would have been able to get a rebound, you know? Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Hold on. We’re talking about with with with Jaylen, too, right? Not instead of Jay. Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing there is is the interchangeability of the playmaking. Like, it’s, you know, Brown’s rotation, Tatum’s rot. Like, that’s just such a big thing right now. And never It felt like there were never moments last year when neither of them were on the floor. Yeah. And you can always have one of them on the floor. 18 minutes of, you know, per game that Jones playing or they’re figuring out. I mean, here’s the big thing. My final thought on this conversation we just had here. When you look at what they’re doing this year, how they’re trying to win, the statistical battle that they face every single night, I mean, they are just up against it and it it feels like a miracle that they’re above 500 the way that they’re trying to win right now. And this is why I keep giving credit to Joe. The chat hates me every time I say it, but he is just problemolving every single second, every single no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, um I don’t think there’s any way to fix that, but the chat the chat might just hate you. Yeah. But they are problem solving. The free throw thing we just mentioned, last and rebounds. Like think of this formula is shooting poorly. If I said going into the year that they were going to be last in rebounding, shoot poorly and face that free throw deficit every single night. Where would we think this team was? Not above 500. Certainly. Well, that’s that’s what’s funny is I I and again, this has nothing to do with anything. It’s just what I what I find interesting about the conversation. You have a lot of the I told you so they’d be better than we thought. But everyone thought they’d be better for different reasons than they’re actually than they than they have been. Um so there’s so many things where you’re like if I told you X Y and Z was happening would you think they’d be good? And the answer would be no. But then you on the flip side, but if I told you that Jordan Walsh would be a locked down defender and starting and you know and and Josh would be shooting 55% from three for the month of November, you’d be like, “Yeah, that sounds amazing.” They they’d be awesome that Holy crap going, you know, having 2020 games. You’d be like, “Oh my god, they’re going to be great.” So, it’s a weird season so far. Kada, before we wrap the show, I am so thrilled with where he’s at because he was in a tough spot coming into this year. And Bobby, I’ve I’ve expressed to you what I think you are allowed to say about Neimus Kada after after what you’ve done what you’ve done to to to bismerch him to, you know, the the last couple of seasons. I went all the way to Portugal to say sorry. I went to Portugal. The ultimate apology camp. We broke bread at dinner. He took a flight to apologize. Yeah. We literally broke bread at dinner and look at where we are now. No, I mean I never badmouth him. I just said he was the fourth center and that’s what he was at that time. But to think and I was so worried coming into this year cuz he’s awesome. Like there his game’s great. It’s different than Luke’s. But to go into a starting role after where he was previously and have these expectations, be forced to do this at these many minutes, this thing could have just burst into a ball of flames and everyone would have just been like to start the year 0 and three. Everyone’s like he’s the tank commander. Like that for all the fans who were rooting for tanking, they were all saying, “Good thing we got Kada at center.” But to see him doing this now and being see him being this central to winning like I’m already starting to do the numbers on an extension, John. Like I think he’s gonna be that everyone gets 20 million in your book. Yep. No, I get it. Just give him just hand him the $20 million check. Um that’s you know every every good extension worthy player. I will say we’ve said this you know about most important I mean Brown is obviously clearly the most important player on the team. Uh you know if he were to miss time I don’t think that they could survive that. But Kada is pro Kada’s number two right now. Uh because there’s nothing behind him. And if Kada was bad, as you said, Bobby, this would be a nightmare right now. They would be in jail. Absolute jail. So, no question. Yeah. Go ahead, Noah. I know. Entering tonight, Kada was one of two non OKC Thunder players in the top 10 in net rating there. Eight of them are from the Oklahoma City Thunder. And then it’s Stephen Adams and the Rockets who has been a net ratings god for years. And then Kada is the other one. Like it it’s pretty remarkable. You’re looking at this team has been a 500 team, right? And that’s how impactful he’s been. He was in I think he was a negative tonight, but overall he has been they have just been a different team with him on the floor. And so as much as Joe hasn’t really nobody’s really kind of affirmed the whole idea that he can’t play more minutes, like we Bobby and I both asked him about it. He said it’s just rotations. But I do think you’re going to see his minutes kind of uptick here as the season progresses. I feel like in that in that last game before he got hurt, I’m trying to remember which one it was. uptick. It was starting to go into the 30s. The comeback against the Nets that fell short, he played 11 minutes in the fourth was everywhere. Just flying around like leaping from like five, six feet away from the basket to put back misses was so crucial to that comeback. That almost worked out. I mean, I’m just watching him every night. The screens he’s setting, the offense, he he had like five rebounds before like you could even sit down and start watching the game tonight. Like, it was out of this world. And I’m just so impressed. It’s a credit to the development. It is a credit to who he is as a player and the work he’s put in on his game to get where he is now. Like I am super thrilled about this story this year cuz again I don’t think anyone expected this like the 19 and 18 with two blocks and giving this kind of plus minus impact as you mentioned there. No, it’s pretty remarkable against you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s happening every night. It’s not like, oh, he had a great game and then there’s gonna be two flops. Like, he’s been consistent with it, too. Yeah, true. There there are some people in the in the chat that did expect this. There are some names that have been Oh, yeah. The one the one you just put up, we we we have dialogue on a daily basis about it. No question about it. Um, so yeah. So anyway, anyway, I will say once again, uh, you know, if there is such a thing as a hard hat loss, and again, it was imperfect, um, you know, in this game and the Celtics certainly kind of went in a hole in the third quarter, but the way that they played against a good opponent, able to come back late in that game to, you know, down 10 and just rip off 10 straight and tie the game, uh, you know, we didn’t talk about it because again, you know, we’re looking at big picture stuff rather than the game itself. the two plays I mentioned off the top. I know, you know, Jaylen fights for a rebound, it goes out of bounds. Minnesota retains possession here, but I thought the killer play, the killer portion of that sequence was uh Pritchard helping off his man in the corner. I I will say there’s a lot of bad help in this game. Nothing in the world drives me more insane than overhelping. And I don’t understand why people do it. The only thing you can’t give up is in that in that world right there is you just can’t leave the corner three open. So I don’t understand not only help profit I just don’t what’s Pritchard gonna do at 6 feet tall. I feel exactly the same way as you jumping in on somebody there and not only that there was force a pass probably. Yeah, but it depends on who you are. Derek Derek’s like the only guy I’m okay with doing it because a he can recover so well, but also he’s a legitim protector. Yeah, but for most players I was at a high school basketball game today and they were literally overhelping so much. This was like a legit high school basketball team. I thought we were about to hear one of your high school stories again. No, no. I was I was watching a high school basketball game today of like a bunch of guys that are going to playing college and they kept leaving corner threes open on overhelping and I’m like their coach was losing his mind and I was like this happens at every level. I don’t know which is fun. Yeah. So I understand and that’s part of their mo but it’s part of their MO with this defense. You know that’s that’s kind of I get it. You’re trying to get a weak side maybe the ball. The guy doesn’t see you coming that open because he’s gonna make that. But that’s a killer there in that position. And then there’s nothing you could do there. They they they forced Ant into a ridiculously difficult shot. Not only was it like a fumbled pass, but his feet were pointing there and he shot it there and and he shot the three. That was just an obscene shot. So you tip your hat and you move on. But they should have, you know, that that that was a one in 10 shot that they should have, you know, had the ball back with a chance to tie late even, you know, even there and it didn’t happen. That was a dagger. But th those two plays, like I said, one you absolutely could have avoided, the other there’s nothing you could do about it. Yeah. Anyway, um so that’s it. Like I said, we’re going to keep this one short. We got another one coming back tomorrow, uh when the Celtics face the Cavs. I don’t even know who the Cavs are anymore, so we’ll see. This is another one. If you looked it on the schedule, you’d be like, “That’s an L.” But that’s a tough one back toback. I’m curious if anybody rests tomorrow night, especially had two guys coming in questionable. This was a hard-fought game with Brown and um and Kada both questionable to play in this one. We’ll see what they choose to do lineupwise. Um but uh you know that game’s what tomorrow at 6:00. Yeah. So, we’ll be back with a postgame show right after that one as well. Quick shout out again our pals over at Prize Picks number one daily fantasy sports app all in North America. Download the code, get 50 in your lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Also, it is Cyber Monday. Head over to our store right now. Uh, use that code. It’s shop.cls media.com. Uh, the code cyber Monday. Get $35 hard hats. Go and get them. 30% off. Great deal right now. Uh, it lasts till Monday. So, go in there and check it out. Uh, thank you. I know he’s dying for a hard hat. Someone get her one. Thank you guys again for DM me being like I’ll buy you one and then I was like I actually I can’t use the code. Use the code. I need to get my code something. Use the code. Anyway, thank you guys for hanging out. We’ll see you tomorrow. [Music]

The Garden Report goes LIVE with CLNS Media’s John Zannis, Noa Dalzell, and Bobby Manning immediately after Celtics vs. Timberwolves.

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