EXCLUSIVE: Tim Legler Talks Coby White’s Return, Should Bulls TRADE for Anthony Davis?

EXCLUSIVE: Tim Legler Talks Coby White’s Return, Should Bulls TRADE for Anthony Davis?

Joining us again on CHGO Bulls, longtime NBA vet, three-point champ. You can catch him regularly co-hosting All Cities AllNBA podcast with our guy Adam Mars and of course on those broadcast for NBA on ESPN, including Warriors Rockets. On Wednesday, the one and only Tim Leggler back on the program. Tim, how we doing? What’s up? I’m good, man. I’m good. I’m good. My son’s fourth birthday today, so we’re having fun. Hey, shout out. Happy fourth. Very good. Thanks. So, since the last time we chatted with you, Tim, the Bulls got off to that incredible 6-1 start. Uh, thrilling victories of all kinds. And since that six-1 start, they have gone three and six. They also managed to go two- one on a difficult uh trip out west, handing the Nuggets their first home loss of the season. They also get blown out on their home floor by the Heat in a Cup game where point differential matters. They lose to a Pistons team, missing their top six or seven rotational guys. They nearly lose on Saturday at home to the one-win Washington Wizards. Where are you on your journey of trying to figure out who and what this Bulls team is right now? Well, this is this is this is the problem some teams run into when they have unexpected early season success. Okay. So, now all of a sudden, everybody thinks, “Let’s completely recalibrate what we thought this team was.” And it doesn’t necessarily work that way. I I’m I actually think I’m more encouraged by the start. I’m more encouraged by the fact that they just won three out of four again after the slide. Look, that that losing streak, you played some good teams and some of those games are on the road and you know, the last one of that that shootout with Utah, that that’s absolutely a game that they could have won at the end of the game, but I like the fact that they flipped the script now on that losing streak and and I don’t care. There’s no such thing as almost losing, by the way. I know they won a close game to the Wizards in the NBA. No such thing. It’s win or lose. And that’s all there is in professional sports. No one cares. Particularly in the NBA with 82 games. It’s did you at the end of the day get it done and find a way to beat this team that’s got one win. They were able to do that. So they have been all over the place after the hot start. I hear you. At the end of the day, you have to look at it sometimes like this. Going into this season, if you had looked at the first 16 games, knowing what you knew about the team, what you thought you knew about the team going in and said, “We’re going to be nine and seven as we get ready to to, you know, celebrate Thanksgiving here in a couple days.” I think everybody would have taken that in Chicago. You know, they finished hot after, you know, a year that was subpar. They finished hot, get into the playin, and now you, you know, you’re thinking, okay, we’re going to be in the mix somewhere in the East. and they got out to that great start. And I knew I was praising them then because of the basketball they were playing, but I I wasn’t sitting here like I was sitting this team’s going to challenge the Eastern Conference. They don’t have that kind of a roster. At the end of this, you just have to look at the totality of the picture is this team is better, I think, than people thought they would be going in. And I I think that’s where they’re going to be all year. But they’re going to have ups and downs. They’re not a team that’s going to roll off a month and, you know, probably go 13 and two in a month at any point. They’re just not like that. They don’t have to me enough depth, enough highlevel scoring volume. I don’t know that they’re good enough necessarily in the middle defensively. There’s some weaknesses, but I think it’s almost like enjoy them for what they are, which is a fun, entertaining team, and they play well together. And nine and seven, I think most people in Chicago should be very happy with that. Tim, I I don’t know if you saw uh Nicole Vuvich after the last game when they played the Washington Wizards. Uh he wasn’t pleased with how they won that game and how they have been playing lately and he definitely uh verbalized that. Um can you kind of take us inside the locker room and talked about what it’s like when a veteran steps up and voices, you know, that kind of opinion to the team? Like what is that like? What is that feeling like? And what was the response the very next game? So my experience on uh in the course of my career, it depends on how often that particular player is exercising his voice. I don’t think Vousvich is the guy that’s doing that too frequently. So therefore, a guy that’s been around when he does do that, it carries way more weight than that guy that’s every day talking in the locker room. even for a veteran player because at some some point guys will tune that out a little bit. It it’s more impactful when it comes from somebody that’s a little bit maybe quieter. Um and and now as a veteran gets the respect of the young players. He’s a very productive player. So it’s not even like he’s one of those guys that’s a vet that says something but meanwhile he’s either sitting there in street clothes or he’s not in a rotation. No, this is a dude that’s like every night he’s putting up numbers and now he’s got something to say. I it does carry weight with younger players and look voices on this team when you look up and down like the roster and you think who is it? I don’t know that it stands out necessarily the personality types on this team of who’s that guy that’s going to be able to get this thing back on the rails if you don’t think they’re playing as hard as they need to as uh with as much unselfishness as they need to whatever it may be. I I don’t think the voices are obvious to me when I look at this roster. So to see a veteran do it that’s probably more on the reserve side most of the time I think that will carry weight. Part of what V was talking about legs is the team through the first three quarters of that uh game against the Wizards offering very little resistance. You brought up their interior defense a minute ago as well. And some might say, you know, Vu calling out the defense, the little defensive resistance is pot calling the kettle black. But I think at this point, most Bulls fans who know what we’re watching know what Vu’s limitations are and the fact that he’s never been and never will be an elite rim protector. So if you’re in Billy Donovan shoes and you see this team really struggling defensively um a after, you know, maybe a bit of a fluky start, what would you change? What would you try to do differently to try to, you know, make up for the fact that personnel-wise, they just don’t have a lot of great defensive pieces? Would you try to minimize the amount of switching he’s doing and go more man? Would you play more zone? Do you still want to see them chasing guys off the three-point line and allowing more of that interior scoring? Like, what direction would you go to try and bring this basement out of the cellar? Yeah, listen, I think that I think the switching can a lot of times create um compromised defense. And I think what it does sometimes it creates almost a lazy mentality um switching that much because it’s like you’re not really being accountable for what’s in front of you all the time and that’s the easiest thing in the world to do is hand it off. But it’s a switching league so I’m not going to I’m not criticizing Billy Donovan but I see sometimes you look at your personnel and you’ve got to try to minimize um the ad the the disadvantageous positions that you get put in with switching. Some switching to me is avoidable. Um, if you just communicated better, if a guys if if there’s a guard exchange taking place 35 ft out and you had the defender you wanted on the better player, there’s no reason sometimes to switch those. But we’ve gotten trapped in the mentality in this league, okay, we’re switching everything. Well, I I always think, well, why can’t some of these things be communicated if you’re at a position on the court where there’s not really an active attacking uh angle taking place? Why can’t you just go under or over 35 ft out? That’s easy if you communicate it early, but I have found a lot of teams in this league take all that off the plate to the players and they just go with this blanket thing. We’re either switching or we’re not. I think there are times you can incorporate defenses that require switching in certain areas of the floor because of where you are, the likelihood a guy is going to take a shot as opposed to areas of the floor that are non- threats at the time. I think you could communicate those and keep the matchups you want for longer in possessions. And I think maybe that’s something that that Chicago could look at as well. Um well let let me stay with that then talking about the defense because Modiselis who who is you know uh all his growth and what he can become for this team is basically hanging by the thread of my man Matt Peek sanity cuz he needs you know him to be great you know and we both need him. We all need him to grow into that kind of player. When you look at him defensively we see the blocks which is what I wanted from him. I wanted the blocks to, you know, increase and still be there, but it seems like he kind of lags off the physicality part of it when guys put their shoulder into him and are getting to the rim. What are you seeing out there when you’re watching him play defense and kind of what you expect him to shure up as this season kind of goes forward? I think he’s 21. He’s wiry. His grown man strength hasn’t kicked in yet. Um, I think he’s got I think he’s got want to in there, which is the thing. If you don’t have I don’t know that you can ever find that or teach that. You either have want to on that end of the floor, you don’t. I do think he’s got want to. I just think he can get physically overmatched a little bit right now, but he can do the weak side things like you’re talking about athletically. He can track guys down in transition and make plays where they stand out. And maybe now you look at the film and you go, “Well, there’s several other possessions in here where like he got physically overwhelmed a little bit by guys that are just stronger.” I think that’s going to come. I think the the bottom line with him is there’s the mentality is right and the talent is there and the athletic ability exists because some of those things you can’t if a guy’s not athletic, he could never going to be more athletic. If a guy doesn’t want to play that end of the floor, he never will. You can only do so much with that. I don’t think that’s a problem with him. So, I think it’s just it’s a very young player uh that’s still going through the ups and downs and getting taken advantage of some nights uh by certain guys in this league because everybody in this league now at the wing can score. on on the offensive side for Modest Tim. Um he was he was on the the young man in the three pod with a couple of his Bulls teammates last week and his answer to the what was your welcome to the NBA moment for a young player. Wasn’t anything about getting punked by a vet, but his own coach Billy Donovan calling him out in a team film session on a possession where Modis was being deed up manto man on the right baseline created separation and took a baseline 15-footer and Billy said to him in front of all his teammates, take that and throw it in the trash. And we as Bulls fans who want to see the offensive blossoming of Modis and what it could mean for this team moving forward are curious about him and and legitimately becoming a threelevel scorer in the NBA while also knowing that hey if your name isn’t Demar SGA or KD everyone around the league and all the coaches around the league are saying eliminate the mid-range. And as a team shot profile so far this season the Bulls are doing exactly that. But what do you make of that for a coach telling a young player who has all kinds of offensive potential, don’t take that shot? Well, I think it’s a good sign from this standpoint. He’s not in a situation playing for a team that’s non-competitive, not winning games where they let the guy go do whatever he wants because it’s all about growth and development. There are teams in this league in that category. This isn’t a team like that. This team’s competitive and and now they’re thinking like, okay, we’re trying to win games. We’re trying to make be a playoff team. So, there’s going to be accountability for a young player. No matter who you are, he still has to add, I think, escapability with his handle. He’s got to add some creativity, command of the basketball to where now maybe Billy Donovan’s more comfortable with him taking that shots because it’s like, okay, he’s put a lot of work into this to go get that shot rather than just maybe feeling there’s an entitlement there because I was a high draft pick last year. People love me here in this city and I got a lot of potential, so I can go take that shot. I think Billy Dunovan is trying to really lay the groundwork for making them understand there’s accountability on a team that has expectations and they were trying to win even for a young player that’s that’s hyped. And I think that’s what that is. And it’s a good thing honestly because you look at look at a guy like Bazel, you know, a lot of these guys that come into the league that are high draft picks. Think about when the last time they were challenged by a coach. I mean a lot of these guys were never challenged on the AAOU circuit, high school circuit. A lot of these guys that have come in top 10 picks are one and doneers. They’re not getting challenged a lot there either because you a lot of them are getting treated with kid gloves. So, this is different. Billy Donovan is ultimately trying to help him and at the same time help his team because he’s got some veteran guys on this team as well and and you got to answer to them as a head coach as well when you let young guys take a shot that maybe is not in their wheelhouse or in his mind, Billy Dunovan’s mind, that’s a bad shot for our team. Um, and most coaches feel like a bad shot. They’d rather take the ball, turn, and punt it into the 15th row with the stands because at least then you can go set up your half court defense because bad shots lead to runouts in this league and run outs lead to open threes in this league. And I think that’s probably where he’s coming from with that. But I think it comes from a place of love and genuinely knowing he’s got a guy that could be pretty damn good on his hands and he wants to make sure he understands there’s an accountability in this league um on the teams that have good healthy locker rooms. H uh speaking of mid-range, uh Kobe White is back on the floor for the Bulls now. Uh we all excited. We know we saw what what the Bulls are missing with him not being on the floor. But I’m going to ask you because I know Matt and I have said this already, but what do you expect from Kobe White now that he’s back with the Chicago Bulls and back in the frey after that six and one start, you know, in that little slump that they had? What do you expect? What kind of player do you expect him to be out there? or is that putting too much on him? Yeah. No, he’s he’s he’s proven and he proved last year that I think he is um I think it’s reasonable to have those kind of expectations for him. He’s got them for himself. He he represents a dynamic to their offense that they really didn’t have. Even though they were winning games and Getty was playing incredibly well early in the year and shooting the ball better than we thought he could and his all-around game was getting a lot of credit, they they won games right out of the gate. Truth is, they didn’t have like that level of dynamic offensive player that, you know, on any given night can go for 30. That Kobe White represents that. He’s going to win certain matchups and certain schemes and certain certain possessions that are played really well defensively. Kobe White can have an answer at the end of that possession because he’s just got more offensive talent. So, look, it’s it’s tough though. It’s not always easy incorporating a guy like that, a high volume shot taker into a team that had success early with Adam with a little bit more well-rounded and balanced. That’s not always the easiest thing, and they’re in the very beginning stages of that. So, I think eventually they’ll iron out all of this. But Kobe White is critical to their team reaching their potential because I think he can win he can win those one-on- ons and win certain matchups that guys on their roster can’t. Kobe White can do things other guys cannot. And so it’s just going to get better and better the more rhythm he gets and the more he gets his legs on him. My last one for you, Tim. Uh Kobe White just made his first start of the season after a couple games coming off the bench bringing him along slowly with the minutes restriction. But now that he’s back as hopefully the Bulls get healthy. I think most people assume that Kobe White, Josh Gaty, Modis Bisellas, and Vu are four locks in Billy Donovan’s starting lineup. And then you know will it be Isaac Aoro who has started a lot so far? Kevin Herder has seen some starts. Iodumu has gotten a couple of starts recently because of injury issues. We’ve also seen Billy Donovan embrace the three guard lineup to a point where he’ll start Trey Jones and that dates back to when he arrived in the trade last season. We also see a thriving Bulls bench, I think first or second in the NBA in points per game uh as a bench unit right now and a team that starting unit has really struggled and a team that gets off to slow starts. How as uh you know, if you were coaching this team, what do you make of that? like, hey, it’s just a great thing that we have such a strong bench and that’s part of what makes our team, you know, win on the nights when we win versus is it a problem that our bench is, you know, you know, pacing along with our starters as far as quality of play and we’re winning our bench minutes and we’re losing our starters minutes. No, look, I think every team in this league is is falls into one of those two categories. It’s the rare team that can win the starters minutes and the bench minutes. I mean, very few teams have Oklahoma City’s depth, right, where you can you can, you know, you can have runs in games where the other team matches the starters and the bench comes in and gives them a 15-point lead. By the time the starters check back in, it’s a luxury. So, every team in this league, it’s typically one or the other um on any given night and even as a trend over the course of the season that you wish you had more, a little bit more firepower, starting a lot, a little bit more bench. I think they’re fine where they are. You mentioned the four guys that are going to be the default starters. That’s how it should be. I think for me, um, you’re gonna probably go back and forth between Dumu and Auroro. Auroro probably getting the majority of those starts. I I like Kevin Herder coming off the bench a lot. I think he’s he’s used to that role. He’s a guy that can come in and heat up. He understands shooters sometimes, too. When you come off the bench, you understand you can shoot the ball the first time you touch it and no one’s going to care because you’re going to be out there for x amount of minutes. The mentality has changed for bench players in this league. You come off the bench now and you’re a shooter. Shoot the ball every time you touch it. No one’s going to care. When you start a game, that might be six, seven minutes of almost wasted time for a guy like Herder while everybody’s touching it. We’re all playing nice out here. All 10 guys get a shot up before on both teams before we realize the game started. It’s almost sometimes I feel like wasted minutes. If I’m a herder, I’m like, “No, no, that’s fine. You guys go with those first seven, eight minutes of meaningless basketball. let me come in and now I could do my thing immediately. Um, so I think Herder’s better off the bench and I don’t think it’s necessarily a huge concern, man. I think there’s gonna be some nights it’s going to be the starter, some nights the bench. The fact that it could be either one is a luxury. You look at the Knicks a year ago, they were the lowest scoring bench team in the league and it was like every night you expected their bench to do nothing offensively. At least that’s not a problem here for Chicago. So I think it’s a good problem to have. My last quick one. Just a last quick one for you. Um, Anthony Davis has been the talk of trade rumors with the Chicago Bulls here and a lot of fans don’t want him here. Um, obviously he shores up your interior defense and things like that. Just wanted to know your opinion on if the Bulls do end up with a guy like Anthony Davis. How would you view that trade for the Chicago Bulls? There are there are a handful of teams in this league or less that fall into a category that I would say, man, you might want to really explore that. I think Chicago is one of those teams. And here’s why. I do think there are limitations on the upside of their roster. It’s not other than Buzzelis who who knows he’s so young, but that’s going to be that’s going to be a few years down the road before he hits that level. Whether he does or doesn’t, we won’t know that for a few years. You look at their roster and you go, where is like that additional growth going to come from over the next year or two that you go, okay, now we can get into the category with some of these teams that have climbed in the East like Orlando, Detroit. Can we get up there with with the Knicks and the Cavs? Can we be in that category Boston, Indiana when they get healthy next year? Anthony Davis could be worth taking the risk for a team like Chicago because his upside when he does play and is healthy and I know that’s a huge if is different than anything else you have on your roster. So for a team like Chicago where I think there’s limited additional upside individually across the board of your roster, Anthony Davis might be something that’s worth exploring. Now, if you have a team that’s got, you know, got it going a little bit and they’re like good and now they’re thinking they want to contend and is Anthony Davis the right guy, but you got to give up two young guys that are starting for you that have incredible potential to take that risk. I don’t know if it’s worth it for a team like Chicago. I look at the roster and I just don’t know who on that roster do you look at and say two three years from now other than Bellas is a guy that you could say could take a huge leap and now we’re right in the mix in the East. I don’t think they have that kind of roster. Anthony Davis potentially could give it but he comes with tremendous risk. Does he play 30 games at some point where the whole thing gets like you know derailed? That’s the risk and that’s what you have to weigh and I think that’s what they’re going to be looking at. Tim, we appreciate the insight as always. Bulls Nation, if you want the leaguewide perspective, be sure to check in on that daily All Cities, AllNBA podcast with Tim Leggler and Adam Mars and catch them of course on the broadcasts NBA on ESPN. Timmy, enjoy the holidays upcoming and we look forward to our next chat. Appreciate you guys. Talk soon, my man. Thank you. The fair.

NBA Analyst Tim Legler joins CHGO Bulls hosts Matt Peck and Big Dave to discuss the return of Coby White, the Bulls recent defensive struggles, should the Bulls trade for Anthony Davis (?) and MORE!

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