Bucks situation feels dire after loss to lowly Wizards

Bucks situation feels dire after loss to lowly Wizards

Hey there. Uh, welcome to the Euroep, a Milwaukee Bucks podcast, probably a part of the Blue Wire Podcast Network and GPN and presented by our pals at Prize Picks. More on them later. Uh, Rohan Cotti is on his annual vacation to the Oak Creek Meyer. My guest probably doesn’t get that joke. I’m Ty Wish. I’m joined by Justin Garcia of the Bucks Radio Network and the Lockdown Bucks podcast. Justin, I asked you when we first got on the the call here. Um, I know the answer probably isn’t what it would usually be on a lovely wintry morning in Wisconsin when we get to do a pod together, but how’s it going, sir? It’s great. I’m hitting you with a tough question right off the bat. Yeah, I mean, why should it be going poorly? Is there something I’m missing? Um, yeah. So, the Bucks sit at 9 and 13. They lost a game where it was one of those where it was so bad. I don’t know if anyone else does this. This may be I’m People may hate that I do this, but in that fourth quarter when they’re just the Bucks are making mistake after mistake in Washington against the Wizards. You started doing lottery simulators. No, I didn’t start doing lotteryies simulators. I’ I’ve seen the screenshots though. I I won’t do it myself, but every time I see one where it’s like one of the two picks is first and the other one is fourth, I’m like, “Wow, that would be nice. We can work with Yeah. Okay. All right. That that’s a silver lining.” When the Bucks play poorly enough against a bad team, I’m like, I hope they do lose because this is one you should have to wear. You know what I mean? Like, I hope CJ McCollum and Chris Middleton, bless his heart, do hit all of these shots. And they did. And the Wizards did win 129, 126 because like sometimes you don’t deserve to win a game. And it’s almost like, and this is stupid. I don’t know if it matters to the Bucks decision makers or players, but like I you don’t even want them coming out of the game like, “Oh, we found a way to win. Like, we did the No, you didn’t. you really didn’t find a way to win. The Wizards found a way to lose for the 17th time in 19 games, but or whatever it was, but they didn’t. They won. The Wizards got their third win of the year. Um, Middleton was good. McCollum was a flamethrower. Marvin Baggley, the third had 22-8, which is a huge problem. Outrebounded every single Milwaukee Buck. Uh, and here the Bucks are firmly in 11th in the Eastern Conference. So, I mean, Justin, what going into this game, were you as confident as I was? I did a post like Alex Sar is out. The Wizards just have no bigs. They can’t guard Giannis. And I will say I think this is going to be mostly a negative Bucks podcast. Those guys did a great job guarding Giannis. The Wizards got like they they had a game plan. The guys fought. They were physical everything else. But I was pretty confident coming in that this would be a a wow a inspiring twoame winning streak over the Nets and Wizards, the worst two teams in the East. And it was not. Well, first of all, is two games a winning streak or is that just consecutive wins and the streak is three when you when you lost? I’m only asking I’m not saying one way or another. Um, I I expected them to win last night and we talked about it on the radio on locked on too. Like there are no must-win games when you’re a quarter of the way through the season and we’re not even at Christmas yet. But like this is a can’t lose game, shouldn’t lose this game against the Wizards because of the stretch you just came out of. And like you need to just piece together as as Mike McCarthy used to say, let’s stack successes here and go into a tougher stretch of scheduling. So I I was probably as guilty as anyone of overlooking the Wizards and saying, “Well, they’re down all these guys and like they got KPJ back. Who would have thought we’d be really hanging our hats on that in February of last year?” Um, they should win this game. I expect them to win this game. And you know the first half you were like this is ugly but like so I guess we’re just going to win ugly here. Third quarter when you got up 16 you felt like all right here it is dude. Yeah, there we go. And then it was just like gone immediately. And I think we’ve seen enough really what the last three years to know the way that that fourth quarter was unfolding. You had this pit in your stomach and then when KPJ went out I think we all kind of recognized I don’t think they’re going to win this game. And uh of course leave it to CJ McCollum and and Chris Middleton to do them in with some of those. Um, you know, I agree with your your sentiment to start that like some of these you do have to wear and it it’s like we’re not going to reward bad behavior with wins here either. that it makes you be much more introspective and you know like this should be a come to Jesus meeting of sorts of like look how does this continue to happen and it almost feels like this year is that uh that larger picture from the basketball gods of we are not rewarding your bad behavior anymore because of how many games they’ve had the shooting advantage and lost last night they were one of seven teams in NBA history. They hit 21 threes, shoot 55% from three, and still lose that game. They lost to the Kings earlier this year when they they shot what 60% in that game. They are the number three field goal percentage team and I think they’re four in effective field goal percentage. Um, all of the teams in the top 10 are the elite teams in the league. And then you have the Bucks who have won what, 40% of their games. They are the outlier there. So they’re they’re first in effective field goal percentage per NBA stats. They’re.1 higher than Denver. So literally it when they shoot that no team is more efficient going in and they’re 9 and 13. And I mean so like in terms of the bad behavior, I don’t know where you’re at on this, but like when we came into the season, there was all the conversation seemingly centered around who’s going to be the small forward and who’s going to defend those bigger wings. I never even considered just because of this team’s history like well is this going to impact their rebounding at all. And I mean what we’ve seen and I’ve seen people who have reached out to me too and saying well this is just teams have figured out how to defend three-point shooting. Like no it’s not that teams have figured out how to defend three-point shooting. It just means three-point shooting isn’t all you need to win anymore. Like if you’re going to continue to give your opponent more opportunities, they are going to beat you. Like if if the Bucks were getting offensive rebounds and they’re the number one effective field goal percentage team in the league 20 what 22 games into the season right now, they’d probably be 18 and four or better. Yeah. Yeah. Or if they could get defensive rebounds and not let the other team, they they aren’t doing either right now. And they’re turning the ball over and they’re fouling and not getting to the foul line. And it it’s it’s been just pretty apparent that they’re behind the curve. So, you know, they prioritize shooting every summer. It’s funny, too. That’s because we thought they finally got in front of caught up. At least at least caught up. I mean, Indiana, of course, was first and kind of OKC is kind of just like, what if we did Indiana stuff, but all of our players were awesome instead of like two of them being awesome. And it’s like apparently the answer to that is you just win every game is what we’re seeing so far. Um but it was like for every year since I don’t know when. Um probably the summer after like Greg Monroe it was like shooting shooting shooting shooting. We need shooting around. And I think we we all kind of realized like late bud like okay we’ve probably overindexed shooting a little bit. We probably need a little bit more. But I mean, we I look back now and I was like, man, the stuff we were complaining about like, oh man, first in the East and losing in the first round with Giannis kind of hurt. That really sucks. And that would be like a dream season at this point, unfortunately. Uh, based on what’s transpired, four in a row and they’re currently 31 and 13. Like, we got big problems. Oh man, the last game before the All-Star break in Memphis and they didn’t bring it. This is embarrassing. Let’s fire everybody. I By the way, the record that I threw out was probably a bad choice because wasn’t that the record when one coach was fired? That’s not what I’m hinting at. No, no. Um, no. Um, no. But that, so the shooting, shooting, shooting, and that was I mean starting whatever 2015ish when Steph Curry Warriors, that was like the thing. Everyone realized we need shooting and guys who couldn’t shoot kind of just either disappeared unless they were elite at something else. But now it’s and then this year it was like, okay, we’re going to be more athletic. You know, starting really at the Koosma Middleton trade and everything else, you know, we’ve got to be faster. Like we’re just getting ran out of the gym and they’re still not super athletic. I mean, with Kevin Porter Jr. in, they they feel a lot more athletic, which we’ll talk about him and how good he looked, his 30 point performance. And and there it goes out with back spasms, missed the end of the game, and and I don’t think we don’t have any insight on that yet. I don’t know. The Bucks haven’t put out an official They haven’t put anything out. They don’t have any availability today. I think they might practice, but um he did media availability last night and I was told that, you know, he looked fine and looked pretty good walking around, which could mean anything. Like anybody that’s dealt with back spasms or any type of type of back issues would be the first to tell you like, “Yeah, great. He looks good after the game. How’s he gonna feel tomorrow or two days later is a different story potentially.” Yeah. Um, not ideal because he really did look sensational and the lineup played really well. I want to get into all that, but they they got more athletic. Certainly more athletic. I mean, they Dame, Chris Middleton, Brook Lopez, all in the same starting five with Torian Prince as your Torian Prince is like the springy, bouncy perimeter guy. Get well soon, Torian Prince. His presence is missed right now, but that is Yeah, he’s not PJ Washington or, you know, whatever else. That’s just not He’s not Derrick Jones Jr. And even if he was, like that’s still, look at the Clippers right now. Like the Bucks did kind of get out of the way of being way too old and slow, which really does not work anymore. But now the new thing this year, I mean, you could talk about Miami and like less pick and rolls, whatever. I don’t think their offense is not as what’s important. But it’s the possession game. That’s what everyone’s talking about. It’s like we don’t need to be the best offense in the half court. We can just get more attempts. and like you know physical defense. OKC fouls a good deal but they just have more possessions because they they’re really good defensively and they’re big and they steal the ball. But the rebounding has been a huge thing. So Detroit which is I think still number one in the East and Houston which is number three in the West which is quite an accomplishment considering who’s two and one or maybe they’re two now. Whatever we know they’re not number one. They just rebound everything. Houston even more but Detroit too. And it turns out those looks are so efficient that it makes up for it. And the Bucks are, I think, around middle of the pack in offensive rating. So, points per 100 possessions or per peression, whatever. You can use either despite being number one in effective field goal percentage because they just don’t have the possessions. They don’t get the total points that these other teams are getting. And the Bucks are really far behind. They are like bottom in almost every rebounding category despite having Giannis. and it’s better when he plays, but uh it’s still not been good enough clearly based on their overall ranks. And they’re suddenly super behind the curve again. And I just think we’re seeing they haven’t figured out what to do about this yet. And I think some of it is for as malign as he was. And clearly, you know, they had to do something. He’s just gotten old. I think the Clippers are feeling that, too. Yeah. Brook Lopez, though, we’re still good at boxing out. You don’t need to be fast. like he gave up some offensive rebounds that annoyed people, but in the aggregate every season they were really good defensive rebounding with him on cuz he’s just big and he gets in the way. Miles Turner doesn’t do it and they’re smaller as well to your point earlier and this new lineup’s been really good against the Nets and Wizards. I’m interested to see can they rebound with Kevin Porter Jr., Ryan Rollins, AJ Green, Giannis, Miles Turner. My guess would be no when they play real teams. Hopefully we get to see. Hopefully KPBJ is fine. Uh Detroit will be a great test tomorrow. Uh if he is in that front, but I think you know they they started Koozma, now they’re not starting Koozma. I think they’re a little worried about the spacing with KPJ Rollins Koozma. Although KPJ is shooting the cover off the ball and Rollins is a good shooter. I’m not sure. I just said a lot of things, Justin, but what do you think about this idea that like suddenly again the Bucks are I I don’t know if they have the most firm identity outside of just hit threes. And they’ve done that and it still has not been enough to your point too. I mean, they’re lacing threes against bad teams and losing. Like clearly they need their identity to be more than Giannis opens up threes and gets 30. That’s not really working for them. Yeah. And I mean Doc said to I think this was before the Nets game um that when KPJ came back he was talking about their lineups and and kind of asked about like what is your group going forward and seemed to indicate there isn’t one that they’re still kind of uh searching for that and and I think he said we feel like we have four guys that we know are going to start and then that fifth could be one of I I think he said three guys potentially, which I’m assuming the four guys are Giannis, Miles Turner, KPJ, and Ryan Rollins. I do wonder if against the Pistons you see Kyle Kosma back in the starting lineup because of the rebounding factor and because quite frankly, it’s an extremely small sample size. And I I didn’t even pull up the numbers to see what it was, but just going off the eye test, it seemed like the trio of KPJ, Giannis, and Kyle Kosma seems to fit because KPJ is getting Yiannis easy buckets. Koozma’s getting out in transition. you have some pretty good length uh and defense uh with that group enough to offset everything else that sure you have spacing concerns, but to your point, I think, you know, what I’ve had to kind of re-examine is what you mentioned earlier that like I don’t know that shooting is the end all beall anymore. Like you just can’t put out a non-shooter. And there’s still a conversation to be had on Kyle Kosma there. I know he’s been on a bit of a hot stretch lately. Um, but teams are going to leave him alone in big spots, but everything else that you’re doing is equally important. And Kyle Kousman does that stuff. So, I wonder if we see another shift in the starting lineup. But the the troubling stuff, and I I think it’s telling that we saw Jericho Sims playing 18 minutes last night and have kind of ramped up his minutes because Doc mentioned this I think before that same game uh when he had a a rather by his standards testy exchange with Eric name that I was talking about with Eric afterwards. uh where it felt like Doc Rivers just kind of said, “Stop asking me about offensive rebounding. I’m sick of answering that question.” And pointed to the defense and everything else, right? Yeah. Um but said like it’s it’s not just size. Like you have to have guys that are good at offensive rebounding and and teams either have them or they don’t, which like okay, fair. But I don’t think there’s only select teams that have offensive rebounders in the league anymore. and we’re seeing it go up quite a bit across the league. He mentioned Jericho Sims and um Andre Jackson Jr. is like, “These are two guys I would probably say are our best at it, but if we play them, we’re sacrificing a lot with shooting and defense.” And and kind of jokingly said, “If I do that, then you’re going to say, well, why aren’t you playing AJ Green more?” Um, which sure, fair, but I think at this point we’re kind of at the state where let’s try it and let’s see what this does and if this is the thing that kickstarts this team because the numbers are just so jarring that we mentioned where they’re at effective field goal percentage and overall field goal percentage, but like if you just look at the four factors this year versus last year, it is quite frankly stunning that they are as elites as they are at shooting the basketball and cannot do anything else. Well, like they’re still better than league average and turnover rate, which continues to really perplex because it feels like the eye test would tell you otherwise. Um, but dead last in offensive rebounding, dead last in free throw rate. I still think they’re dead last in in free throw percentage by a wide margin. On the defensive end, there’s nothing they’re doing well, right? They’re they’re basically a bottom 10 team in every one of those four categories. An opponent effective field goal percentage. They’re not forcing turnovers. They’re not a good defensive rebounding team. And I’m quite frankly surprised that they’re 25th in free throw rate and not 30th. They are last in free throw percentage. Um four points behind the Wizards who uh they of course just lost to. Um I to your point earlier about the lineups I I’ve just been tracking this one with Koosma of just all Koozma minutes together because yeah to your point they’ve used so many different groups like I think the Porter Koosma Giannis lineup it you know it’s going to be like two minutes or something like they just have not played together uh cuz KPJ’s played what 40 minutes or no more cuz he played the other game but you know little not many minutes. Giannis and Koozman in 161 minutes have a net rating of plus 22 so far. They’re like plus 70 something in um some in 161 minutes. The team is only 8 and seven in those games which is a lot better than 9 and 13. But uh when those two have played together, the Bucks have been really good. And I think we saw the best I’m trying to remember what the game was, but Koozma just kept cutting when Giannis was in the post. And it was like, okay, they figured this out, right? Like to your point, I don’t think you can just have him sit in the corner and be like, we’re going to run Rollins Giannis, KPJ, Giannis, you know, Giannis AJ pick and rolls, inverted pick and rolls, all this fun stuff. And Cuz will just space because they’re going to ignore him. And some days he’ll be hot, but some days he won’t. And I just think you look at his career. I don’t really want to play those numbers of like our crunchtime success comes down to whether Cuz hits the three. Not even trying to be disrespectful to Cuz history tells us probably not based on his overall shooting percentages. But okay, we’re getting Yiannis in the post. We’re we’re moving off ball. Maybe Cuz is setting screens and then cutting to the rim. And it’s like suddenly that’s a lot to deal with because you probably have your biggest most physical players worried about Giannis. Now you have another big 610ish guy cutting toward the rim who for his career has been a very good finisher. That’s a lot. Plus, you’re still spacing with shooters and they did it one game and they really haven’t done it since. Like the very next game it was Koozma back to the corner and maybe it was a matchup thing. Maybe it’s the way teams are playing them. But I we really haven’t almost seen it at all since then. Some of it is Giannis went out and just got back and you know they haven’t been starting Koozma since he got back. But I think they need to investigate that more. I think Koozma just probably has to start until those numbers turn sideways because the other starting groups haven’t been great. That said, again, the group with the two the two point guards green turner Giannis does have a really strong uh net rating or plus minus, whatever you want to say so far through these two games, but they lost one of the games and again it was the Nets and the Wizards who are the two worst teams in the conference. you know, if KPJ is active, I think we’ll get a much better representation of that uh against Detroit on Wednesday. I just think um we’re gonna take a quick break and then I want to talk about how dire you think this situation is and how dire the vibes are, which is two different questions. Things may not be great right now. We’ll continue that conversation with Justin Garcia in just a moment, but first, there is some great news. This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks, where we all make decisions every day. But on Prize Picks, being right can get you paid. Don’t miss any of the excitement this basketball season on Prize Picks, where it’s good to be right. 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Obviously the national media which actually I shouldn’t say obviously surprisingly like I I keep flipping through like listen to a couple ringer pods the hoop collective and waiting for the like oh my god red alert the Bucks are a disaster and kind of like yeah it’s been been pretty bad without Giannis we all kind of thought so like we’ll see what happens there I like oh that’s nice um if they keep losing like this Wizards game it will obviously get a lot worse as it probably should but how bad is this situation for the Bucks in terms of like can they write the ship This season, the obvious long-term big guy question is always going to be a little bit in everyone’s minds and probably a lot bit with like the way the game last night went if stuff like that continues to happen where I don’t think Giannis played his best game down the stretch either. Like does this just feel bad? They play down against their opponents like they just lost a random game to the Wizards or is this actually a precarious spot? What do you think? Um, all the above. I think like like you know Giannis, you brought it up. Giannis was not good last night. That was I think by his standards the worst game we’ve seen him play this year and the worst game we’ve seen him play in a decent amount of time. Now coming back from that injury a lot quicker than we thought. I’m sure there is going to be some fatigue and other things to get your conditioning back. Sure. Yeah. But Giannis wasn’t good against the Wizards and that was a big part of it. I mean, we talked with Doc about this before the Nets game. Funny because you thought uh it was for weather purposes and and saying like how do you keep your team focused when this is going to be a weird game? You got a bad team coming in. I didn’t expect there to be very many people in the arena. I was I was surprised there were as many as there were. And Doc’s point then was we have a sevename losing streak. So like that’s how you keep them focused and that paid off. But then you fast forward to what uh 48 hours later and you see basically the same scenario against a team that had won two games and it did feel like you were battling that in your mindset too of like this is the Wizards. We can show up and and beat them. So, um, that part was disappointing for a team that knows we have to start to make up ground here and we have to take advantage of all of these types of games on our schedule. How dire it is. I think, you know, I’m not going to dismiss anything in the past where you would look at last year at the 2-8 start. Um, we were talking about this before we recorded, like when you were 2 and eight, you looked at it and you were kind of surprised where you’re like, I just I don’t believe them to be this bad. Am I missing something here? And, you know, they started to figure it out as the season went on here, you know, because a lot of pieces have changed and they’re playing differently. I don’t think any of us can sit here and honestly say like I know for a fact this is not who this team is. I think it remains to be seen. That’s the tough part that we have to figure that out. Um, this month of December is going to tell you a lot because you start to it lets up in terms of the schedule compared to what you had in November. I think they have 14 games this month. November was brutal. So, it was like the least opportune time to lose Giannis for five games. But to be clear, it wasn’t just they were bad because Giannis missed five games in November. They were bad with him on the floor, too. But in December, you have what, four instances of at least two days off in between games. The teams on your schedule start to go down a little bit. You still have the Pistons on there two more times, the Sixers, uh the Timberwolves are on there, you got the Raptors, but you have more of those teams that are either bad or in the middle that you at this point have to beat up on. So, how dire this is, I think we’ll know by the end of December because if they don’t at least get to like, think about where Indiana was last year when the Bucks beat him on New Year’s Eve. They were dealing with injuries to some of their key guys early in that stretch and I think they were like a game below 500 somewhere around there uh going into the new year. if you don’t at least get this in that direction where you say, “Okay, we’re not where we need to be, but we’ve played much better in December and we feel like we’re finding some things here. We’re going to start to take off in the second half.” If it’s not there and if we get to um the end of December and what they were nine and 12 coming into November and I think they got 14 games. So, like if you’re what, 15 and 20, something like that, then I think it’s starting to get pretty late, pretty early for this team because the separation has started to take place. When when Giannis went out, everything was still pretty bunched up. But now, um, I mean, I I think we can all confident that you’re not catching Detroit with what the start they’ve gotten off to, the hole that you’ve dug for yourself. All these other teams have started to kind of settle in and like one through four or five. And all of a sudden, before you know it, like the middle of that pack and the teams that are towards the end of the playoffs, the top two playin teams, you’re already like four or five games back in the loss column from those teams. So, if you don’t get this to 500ish by the end of December, then I do think it gets very dire. Yeah, I I would agree with that. I mean, it it does just feel it’s been a weird season because I feel like there’s been very brief moments where you’re like, “Oh, I get it.” Like I see I see what the first five games of the season the first five games and then you know I thought they had good moments against New York and Miami even without Giannis and just couldn’t get it done which is frustrating but both of those games you kind of came out like that sucks the the New York one I think especially with Giannis back but it was like all right they hung in there against real teams and they looked Yeah. And then there’s this Wizards game and then there’s like the Portland game with again no Giannis but like a team on the second night of a backto-back the Kings game with Giannis. Like there’s you know the 13 losses we could probably go on for a while here. Well and that’s the other thing is like even the Rockets game you controlled for large portions and that was again where you shoot yourself in the foot is injuries are going to happen and guys are going to miss time. So, you can’t put yourself in that spot that if they took control, if they took care of business in that Rockets game, if they didn’t show up the way they did against the Kings, um, a handful of these other games where instead of being just a game or two above 500 and what, eight and five, instead of being there, if you’re 10 and three because you won two of those other games, you have a lot more room to say, “Okay, we’re going to miss Giannis for four games. even if things go south, we’re still in a good spot. But you just didn’t afford yourself that be 500. I mean, if they had beat beat Houston and Sacramento or whichever two you want to pick there and then you’re like, okay, they’re they’re 10th. They’re, you know, two in the lost column back from uh sixth. I mean, the Cavs are 13 and N. But I’m glad you mentioned the injuries cuz I that’s been something like, you know, you can’t blame them too much. They’ve had all these injuries. And with Giannis out, I think sure still obviously they were right there with Philly. I think that Portland game was winnable. Like I Miami, they were right there. Like they should have they probably could have gotten a win in other scenarios or like if you know play those games 100 times or whatever, but you don’t play the games. You play the games once each and you just got to win the first one. Um but even on the whole like you look up the East, everybody’s got injuries. I mean Boston is 11 and N. They haven’t had Jason Tatum all year and they got rid of like four other key players. They’re two games above 500. Philly, I mean I don’t even have to start naming players. We all know who’s out with Philly, who’s not. Uh Atlanta has not had Trey Young. They’re suddenly they’re better. Um that’s a whole different story. Cleveland never has Detroit. Think about how many games Detroit has played without their back court and they’re still rolling through it. And they’re number one. New York doesn’t have OG Anobi right now. They’re on a four-game winning streak. Miami just got Tyler Herro back. The Raptors haven’t had RJ Barrett. They’ve looked a little shaky since they’re 14 and seven. They had Purle out for a couple games and see they love him. They gave him a billion dollars. You know, Orlando never has all their guys healthy. You know, it’s like the whole East. It’s like, yeah, everyone’s missing someone. I think Stan Bang Gundy made this point, I forget. I think about Cleveland of like this is the NBA these days. You’re never going to have all 18 guys or 15 or whatever. You know, you’re not ever going to have your full rotation for for long. And the Bucks have certainly lived that and it sucks, but that’s just life right now. And they’re still two and eight in their last 10 or Yeah, two and eight. Jesus, two and eight in their last 10. Um, so it just kind of is what it is and you just have to find ways to win or don’t. I I just think so I want to talk about the vibe because you mentioned the 2 and 8 last year and the vibe with us in the media was like don’t think it’s this bad although they have kind of always I think had this cavalier so to speak attitude with some of the winnable games like the 2 and8 start their home opener against Chicago they just got ran out of the gym and embarrassing it’s like how in your home opener is energy low like that should never and how do you do the same thing two days later in Brooklyn yeah which they got embarrassed in that game. Um, and I remember at a start we’re like, this is a different team. They’re not doing then here we are against the Wizards. So, they’re not that different. Um, but within the team, you know, you know, you you you’re kind of around the team more on the Zooms and in the building, everything else. Does it feel different? Because I remember very clearly thinking like this is going to be a disaster when they’re two and eight, one and eight, whatever it was. And and Doc was like, we know we’re a playoff team. And all the players, too, every time they spoke about it was like, yeah, I mean this sucks. Like teams have these runs. Ours happen to be early, but we’ll be fine. And to their credit, they went and won 48 games that year. Does it feel any different coming now in December hitting this point? Well, I’m going to be curious like this week. Yeah, because you know up until last I haven’t been there around them obviously in the last day, two days with them being on the road. Um and up until then I would say like yeah it feels kind of like last year that there doesn’t seem to be a sense of panic. The only unique thing is you know part of I think that that steadfast confidence last year was they had a lot of veterans that were like we’ve seen this like we know how to get through this. We’re not worried. When you think about the voice of Dame and Giannis and then behind the scenes, Brooke and those everybody’s favorite and Chris, those types of guys, it’s just Giannis now, you know, like Giannis and Bobby are the veterans and and Miles Turner, but like that’s it in terms of guys that have been with this group. It’s Giannis and Bobby Portis. So, I am curious to see how you navigate through those stretches with some young guys. And I I you know, part of you is inclined to think like, well, well, young guys just don’t know any better, that it’s kind of a good thing. But the other part of it is you had this group that had developed and curated this winning culture for uh what, seven years. And it it just like you don’t have that now. you have young guys that weren’t a part of that that are trying to build their own thing and you don’t want a losing mentality to set in. So I think if anything that’s where the urgency would come from to say like this is not the brand of basketball that we have tried to subscribe to here for a decade now basically like we got to write this ship and it’s going to be on young guys to take that leadership voice because like everything can’t be Giannis will rescue us and I think you know you think about the story that Ryan Rollins has become how much we’ve talked about the importance of Kevin Porter Jr. like those things are going to need to increase and and guys like uh Kyle Koosma, they’re going to have to become those types of guys that say, “Guys, we’re not doing this anymore. We’re playing differently. We’re going to halt this.” Um so this week I think will be very telling too with the games that they have with three games yet this week, two of them against the Pistons, the Sixers who are in front of you in the standings that it’s a team you felt like coming into the year we should be a better team than the Sixers and and right now you’re not. So, how you handle this week and when we talked about how dire it is and talked about the month of December, I I think like that applies here, but especially this week to see how do things go and if it keeps going south and all of a sudden we’re talking about a four-ame losing streak, what are the vibes like then when this starts to set in if you are, god forbid, nine and 16 on the season? because then all of a sudden that becomes like, boy, this is starting to feel like what Philly was looking at last year before they ultimately realized like, let’s reset this for next year. Yeah. And I think pretty obviously going back to the whole concept of a gap year, way before last this past off season, feels like the Bucks don’t feel like they can afford that in terms of cache with the big guy. I mean, I John Horse has been very aggressive. Maybe he would have always been no matter what. Yeah. But I don’t know. I think if Yiannis goes in and says like, “Hey, I get it. Like, let’s ride out the damn thing and, you know, take a year, get a draft, pick everything else, maybe things are different that summer.” Who knows? Who knows? Perhaps they are, perhaps not. Um, yeah, I I think it’s going to be really interesting to see the Detroit game. To your point earlier, you can’t call that a must-win. Detroit is too good and it’s too early. But I do think it’s a must fight. Like I do think if you’re if you’re down 30 in the third quarter against Detroit, I think things could really unravel quickly. And I I think we know if if they’re if you’re staggered, the Sixers and really mainly Tyrese Maxi can jump on top of that because we’ve seen it and the Bucks clearly don’t have an answer for him. Maybe having KBJ back will help, maybe not. But um you got to write this thing and that doesn’t mean you always have to beat Detroit. I think they can. It’s possible that they beat Detroit. They won however many consecutive games, like 15 out of 16 or something, which by the way, I think Detroit’s always going to play hard against the Bucks because they’ve been the little brother getting beat up for the entirety of the Giannis era. Um, but you got to at least be competent and in that game, I think, which is a low bar, but that’s where we are. So with the things they’re not doing well, the rebounding, the defense, the those are maybe what they are doing well. Yeah, the shooting. They’re shooting well. That’s good. Uh from three, not from free throw. Um what do you think there are real ways that Doc and the staff here can improve these things? There’s there to me there’s no lineup. I mean, you’re not going to do Bobby Koozma, Sims, Giannis Turner. right now we’re going to be the rebounding team like that’s obviously not they’re not going to be the best defensive or offensive rebounding team in the league. Can they get closer? Like do you see things where you’re like I I think is it Koozma starting? Is it just playing differently? Is it trying to go after boards more? Like because everyone wants to talk trade. That’s the most fun thing. We’re two weeks away from most of the league even being trade eligible including a lot of the guys I think people on the Bucks would want to trade. So in the meantime, you still have to play these games. What do you think are you looking at and saying I I think they should try this? Because I I think I let me know if you disagree. I don’t think there is anything where I’m like this is going to fix them. They do this and suddenly they’re going to be the 58 win team again. I I think we’re too far from that. But is there anything that you’ve IDed is like we need to let’s lead into this more. Yeah. Well, I mean the thing is make free throws and play better defense, but like what do they have on the roster to fix that? to your point, um, yeah, I don’t I don’t think there is a smoking gun. Um, I think at this point, you know, offense is great, but as we mentioned, look at where you are in your efficiency and look at what your record is and look at all the other outliers. Um, like when you go to cleaning the glass and and see those four factors and every other number and you see like, wow, that is bright orange and then everything else is blue and in the bottom 10 with the league. Um, that’s the troubling part where you look at it and say, well, what is offense getting us here that it’s it’s keeping us in games that we ultimately lose, I suppose. So, I wonder, you know, like I mentioned, we’ve seen more from Jericho Sims. Does that become a constant? Because he was active on the glass again last night with seven rebounds and I think four of them were offensive. Um, does that become a constant where it’s 20 minutes that Jericho Sims is getting and then who is that eating into? I think there’s been some criticisms and I think I think it’s some of it is warranted too of like how are we utilizing Miles Turner and what is his role and what are the minutes that he’s playing. Doc talked about the aggressive version of Miles that we saw against the Miami Heat and like that’s what we want to see. Saw flashes of it again against the Knicks and then it just kind of disappeared. So like I still think they’re figuring out how to utilize that front court. But I I think what everybody would point to like the only obvious fix is like we’ll just play guys that aren’t being played right now. So like keep playing Jericho Sims and uh play Andre Jackson Jr. to really reinvigorate the defense I suppose. But yeah, that’s the the tough part is there’s no like we’ll just wait for this guy to come back or we’ll just do this and switch the lineup to this. I mean, I I think you kind of have to switch it to Kyle Koosma for some of the numbers that we talked about earlier. And even the Cuz I don’t take anything from the Cuz even though I said, “Hey, the eye test looks pretty good.” The numbers say it wasn’t with Cuz KPJ, and Giannis on the floor, but it was like 10 possessions that we’ve seen so far. But Giannis, Cous, and Ryan Rollins have been elite together, too. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that’s the big part is, all right, Cuz has to start. And for your your point about trades too, like that’s the other tough part is everybody has concocted deals that include Kyle Koosma and Bobby Portoris and you know maybe this player and a first round pick for this. I mean number one I don’t know what any of those traits are, right? Like I don’t know what Kyle Kosma, Bobby Poris in a first round pick is actually going to fetch you. Um, but also like if we’re talking about a marginal upgrade, like some of the names that have been thrown out there aren’t even worth repeating because I don’t think it helps the Bucks. Yeah. But if that’s what we’re talking about, that is definitely not, you know, mortgaging your future even further with a first round pick that look at the trend this year. Like what if that becomes a trend of this is how the Bucks are going to be playing go forward and that could be the number one pick that you’re trading away. Um, but also as we’ve seen and we’ve just talked about like Kyle Kosman is actually pretty important to this team because of what he’s able to do defensively, how he plays downhill. And again, the numbers when he’s been on the floor with your best player been drastically different from where it was a year ago. So, I’m not saying he’s untradable, but all these trades that people have worked up, like I don’t know what trade with Kyle Kosma out there exists that makes you a better team. That’s, you know, to the point that it’s good enough to really matter right now. Yeah. I mean, if Koozma goes, you’ve got to be bringing back a pretty ideal small cut. Yeah. You just need to and I don’t know. I mean, I before the year, I really liked Cuz whether it’s a multiple team deal or there’s some small asset, but like Cuz for RJ Barrett is financially viable and it gets the Raptors below the tax. And my thought was like if the Raptors are, you know, kind of mediocre, that could be a priority or the Bucks are. Um, you know, okay, we get a guy who’s playable, who does numbers, everything else, they don’t seem to mind players who don’t shoot historically. Um, and being under the tax is nice. And that ownership group, I mean, didn’t want to continue paying Messiah, like has not been a very spendy group overall. Um, and you know, like on a four-game losing streak, Barrett’s been out. They played okay and not great. I was like, “Oh, maybe they can, you know, do they do a Trey Young Euring theory thing here with uh Barrett?” I don’t think so. And also to your point, I don’t know. I think dropping RJ Barrett on the Bucks, like, are they way better? Maybe. I I don’t know if he’s really doing that kind of stuff, though. Like more of the I think I’ve been so focused on these like offensive guys if like they need to find this. And again, like the half court offense has been great. RJ Barrett’s not going to come in and change our lives defensively or on the glass. So, I don’t know. Another guy I I like Dylan Brooks. The idea of Dylan Brooks, I think he is the kind of player who’s like he is going to make you tougher. He’s going to make you stouter defensively. He’s going to rebound for his position. People don’t like him. I think that’s that’s fine. I I could get over that if he helped the Bucks win games, but Phoenix is good now. And Phoenix is not rebuilding. Phoenix can’t rebuild really. So I I don’t really see a way where that happens unless they’re just really enamored with Koozma or Portoris or both. The like Lavine stuff I’m like no. I mean, with everything we’ve talked about, they’re the best best shooting team in the league and they can’t win games. So, what? They’ll be an even better shooting team that still can’t win games because Lavine’s not helping you defensively on the glass either. So, if the player isn’t helping you defensively on the glass, I just I kind of don’t get it at this point. If Koozma’s going, especially um Portoris, I do think I I don’t know exa I can’t put my finger on exactly what, but something about the way they played differently this year. Maybe it’s the more athleticism. Maybe that because they’re just setting up post touches less for everyone not named Jiannis. It just feels like they don’t get enough from him most nights offensively. And if he’s going to have 12 points on 10 shots or on eight shots or whatever and we know the defense has never been great and right now it’s like it’s at a deer. I mean there was a possession Cam Whitmore didn’t even do a move. He just kind of like like you would on 2K kind of just like took an extra dribble toward the baseline and just went around and it looked like the Poris controller player the controller had died and he dunked it with with emphasis with oomph. Um and you just can’t afford that if you’re just like getting 12 points on okay shooting on the other end. There’s been a couple explosive Poris games. The Portland game where ironically he was incredible. he was their best player and they made a starting lineup switch at halftime after starting Sims and it wasn’t Portoris and by the time he got back in the game the game was over which I was at that game with my dad and he went crazy he’s like how do you take Bobby Poris out of this game I was like well the defense he’s like well no one’s defending and I was like well you know what you’re right uh Jeremy Grant has 30 I can’t argue with you on this one anyway that’s that’s an aside um that’s been bad so I mean if you know maybe turning Porters into a player who fits the roster better it just feels like I don’t know it feels like they’re bigs generally. I you brought up Turner. I wanted to ask you about him, too, cuz like the Miami game, he played a little differently, but also it just kind of felt like they remembered he existed and it just feels like for large stretches of the season, both with the rotations. I mean, last night’s game, great example. I mean, Turner doesn’t come in until there’s five minutes left in the fourth quarter, he didn’t have a good shooting game. You look at the plus minus, they did win his minutes. Like, he does a lot for them defensively, especially I think they’ve kind of they’ve kind of dropped back a little more. He’s been way up at the screen less, which I think has suited him much better defensively. They were really asking him to play like Draymond Green and he’s a mobile center, but he’s not Draymond Green. Um, but you like the minutes, the rotations, he sits for really long stretches. He usually comes back in it feels like very late in fourth quarters and they could probably use him earlier. But offensively, it just feels like there’s a lot of games where like, you know, he’ll get some trail threes, he’ll get some corner threes, but there’s nothing ran for him. They’re not setting him up to do anything. And the Miami game was like a breath of fresh air. Like, hey, this guy’s skilled. Like, I I don’t think he can break guys down off the dribble. He tries sometimes. It doesn’t It doesn’t go well. Let’s leave that in the past. Let’s leave that in 25. But he can pass. He can post a little bit. He’s got nice touch. He can shoot. And I just wonder like all that they gave up for him and it was a lot. I mean, you wave and stretch a top 75 player of all time and the big contract. The Pat Conan salary dump, which was very expensive, I think, for the contract that it was. And I I just think you give all that up and I I feels like you should get more out of that guy. Turner hasn’t played amazing. I’m not saying it’s all on the coaching staff, but also I don’t know. Do you feel like he’s been underutilized in addition to not always playing the best uh on either end? Yeah, and I I think, you know, last night too against the Wizards was a rough game for him defensively, which was a pretty big surprise with who the Wizards were throwing out there, especially in the paint. But yeah, uh who would have thought we’d be sitting here number one the day after a loss, the Wizards, but also saying like, you know who the best big on the floor was last night? It was Marvin Baggley the third in a game that featured Giannis and and Miles Turner. Um, I think too in the Heat game, what stood out was something that we talked about at the time that they brought him in in kind of like going through the checklist of areas that you think Miles Turner is is better than Brook Lopez was, you know, I remember seeing quite a bit last year in the last few years for that matter in all these matchups with the Pacers and even games that you’d watch of the Pacers that didn’t feature the Bucks where Miles Turner will will hunt mismatches and take advantage of those. And that’s just something that the Bucks offense has not done, not just with Brooke, with anyone really. Um, unless it was an absolute necessity. And you saw that again in the Heat game of like, all right, we’re going to run this two-man action and if you’re going to put a guard on him, we’re just going to keep going into him and he’s going to score in the paint. Um it’s just been str like all these individual players too like when we talk about the first five games of the season and like I will cite sample size and its importance every single day. So, I I realize I am contradicting myself here, but those first five games, save for the Wizards, those were good opponents that you faced and you went four and one and you looked good and the metrics were good, right? You were, I think, eighth in offense and ninth or 10th in defense. Yeah. Uh Miles Turner looked like an elite rim protector. He had double digit blocks through all of those games and beyond your defense. Ryan Rollins. Think about all the individual plays. And I think we’ve seen him kind of return to form there. And that’s not even a knock on Ryan. It was just it was clear to see when you were telling him be all of our offense. Of course, his defense is going to suffer. But it’s it’s just been like Jackal and Hyde for all this team. And I think Miles Turner represents that of like what happened in those first five games where, you know, the offense wasn’t there and they weren’t featuring him. So I think if anything that’s where you would say look this has consistently been there of why aren’t we utilizing this? Um, it does lend to a larger conversation though of and I frankly don’t have the answer like we’ve leaned into all of this, you touched on it earlier, shooting and the importance of it, but like are we sure now 20ome games into a season like are we sure this is going to work enough where it’s essentially five out where you’re going Giannis and four shooters because you know you’re not going to get any offensive rebounds in a game which I I suppose the devil’s advocate there is like well if the number one effective field goal percentage team. What offensive rebounds are there to be had? But as we’ve seen, it’s just on the other end of the floor that instead of we just need four shooters around Giannis, like how Kyle Kosma plays when he’s playing good and cutting and offball movement, which again was all there through the first five games of the season. Like maybe that’s equally as important if not more important than just surrounding your best player that gets into the paint with shooters because of what it means on the other end of the floor. Yeah, I think absolutely. And I think they were a little they were just insulated from it in how much I think Drew did and then I think Lopez on the defensive glass. I I think my stance in the past with the Bucks and the offensive rebounding and you do make a good point, although I think I think offensive rebound percentage would account for even if you’re a good shooting team, you can still grab a lot of your misses. I’m not a not an expert in all of it, but like they’re 19th in defensive rebound percentage. And I was okay with the trade-off if it’s like, all right, we’re blast or near the bottom in offensive rebound. But if you grab all team defense, right, you get back, you grab your own rebounds, like it kind of nets out like, okay, we’re we’re not getting extra possessions, but we’re not giving them. So then if our offense is good and our defense is okay or better, you still win a lot because the possessions are roughly equal. I mean, there’s obviously always going to be the random high turnover games. So when the Bucks have one now, it just feels like completely insurmountable because yeah, they’re they’re not getting offensive or defensive rebounds. They’re 19th in defensive rebound percentage and legitimately 30th in offensive rebound percentage behind the Kings, the Thunder, ironically the Thunder. I wouldn’t have guessed that one. Who are 20 and one. Oh my god. Uh the Mavericks, the Wizards, the Bulls. I just I I didn’t expect the Thunder to be here. Um maybe the missing thing does take part of it, but I I would guess they are they’re sixth in defensive rebound. So they’re kind of where the Bucks were, you know, way back when. I mean, they’re a little better, of course, but in terms of get your own, get the other team’s misses, even if you don’t get your own. The Bucks aren’t doing either. And the fouls. So there’s been a lot of consternation about someone after the Knicks game said, uh it was my fault. um as Bucks Media, of course, the voice of all of us. Uh that’s not true because I don’t call out the refs enough and none of us do, Justin. So, it is our fault actually that the Bucks are nine and 13. So, we should take some ownership here just like uh the coaching staff, the players in the front office should. Um but I, you know, we talked a little bit about this. I I don’t think there is a grand conspiracy. I really don’t. I think the free throw disparity is what it is because one, the Milwaukee teams do get a little less free throws. The Lakers do get a little more free throws. That’s a historic thing. That goes back a long way. I don’t think that’s a I maybe that’s a light conspiracy. I don’t know. I do think that’s kind of true. I don’t think it’s much I don’t think there’s anything different than normal about that is what I’ll say because here’s why. The Bucks are not good defensively and they’re not good on the glass. So, they are just fouling a lot. You know, you foul when you’re not good defensively or when you’re really aggressive, but when you’re not good defensively is when you really notice it. And the Bucks give up a lot of driving lanes. I mean, I was watching that Portland game. Jeremy Grant has been cooked for three years and he was just slicing through with no resistance. And the Bucks lose guys on the perimeter, too. That doesn’t always lead to fouls, but and the rebounding. I mean, when someone comes down with an offensive rebound, that’s a big foul opportunity as well, right? you get hacked trying to go back up or someone cuts in and gets hacked because now you’re distracted and your defense is all messed up when you give up an offensive rebound. And on the other end, Giannis is a great foul drawer whose numbers are a little down. Nobody else really is. I think Rollins will get a better whistle. I think KPJ is someone who can draw fouls. They obviously have barely had him this year. Nobody else goes and draws all that much contact. They have a lot of players who are more jump shooters. And this takes me back to the conversation around the 21 finals when we would lecture me me I would lecture Suns people of like oh the free throw disparity this is rigged blah blah blah like one team has a guy who’s going down through contact finishing at the rim the other team has two elite jump shooters and a lot of spacers like you’re just not going to shoot the same free throws. There is also a leaguewide trend of free throws are just way up. Like the percentage of points coming from free throws is way up across the league. It’s not just the Lakers guys. Everybody is giving up more. Some of it is how they’re calling the game. Some of it is I think teams are trying to copy Oklahoma City and be aggressive, but when you don’t have the multiple all-w world defenders, that just means you foul a lot. And teams are trying to pick up full court like Indiana, which also, you know, you get beat, you run ragged, you foul. There’s a lot going on bigger than I think just the Bucks. But when you look at it from just the Bucks perspective, I do think it kind of just shows you some of their weaknesses. Some of this overall conversation we’ve been having of that they’re so focused on hitting open threes. They’re not doing enough else on either end. And I I think this is this deep into the season, even though you have some without Giannis, it just feels very clear that you just can’t have that approach anymore because you’re having the success with the shooting and it’s not working and it’s now time to pivot. both I think in roster and in how you put together lineups. Yeah. And I mean I I don’t expect if we do see a hard pivot here I we’re not going to see anything for a little bit yet as you mentioned when guys become tradable not just with the Bucks outside of this team. Um, but I mean also there’s a big elephant in the room too of like what does this mean for the future of this team and what does this mean for the next couple of years for the best player that is currently on the roster. Um, you know, we’re way too early to get into the draft discussion, but it is at least worth noting of like, well, at least the Pelicans are disaster this year, too, that if this does end up being a worst case scenario season for the team, you will at least get a pretty good draft pick this summer to to replenish there. But, um, yeah, I mean, I I just think you need to lean into what has worked so far on both ends of the floor. Um, and honestly, I’m I’m glad you brought up the free throws, too, because like you see a lot of the near like let’s just set it straight. This isn’t a league directive to like let’s get Giannis out of Milwaukee and we’re just going to give the Bucks a terrible whistle. They don’t have guys, as you just pointed to, that draw fouls routinely. And a lot of that has to do with if you’re the more aggressive team, you are going to be rewarded for that by getting to the free throw line. They get paint touches from Ryan Rollins and Giannis. I think you could make a case neither of those two players have a very strong whistle and it should be much better than it is, but that’s basically it. You know, like Kyle Kosma will cut, Kyle Kosma will get to the rim in transition and he’s the other guy. like he’s number two on your team in fouls drawn and getting to the free throw line, but that’s not like elite company that you have in terms of guys that are getting to the free throw line and creating points there. And the other problem is, you know, this has nothing to do with the officials, but they’re not making free throws. And I know Doc has been asked about it and said, “Well, what do you want me to do? Tell the guys, hey, we should consider hitting these free throws, guys.” Like, how is that on Doc Rivers? So, this isn’t the league trying to get Giannis out of town. this is the way they play. If you’re taking a lot of threes, you’re not getting those free throw attempts because of where your shot selection is coming from. And you know, defensively, look, I’m not saying all these calls have been great because we can single out a handful of them. You go back to that Rollins call at midcourt against the Cavs and some other ones where Jericho’s flagrant last night and you’re like, well, I’ve seen the same thing on Giannis and that’s not cold. But that part of it has been the flagrant differential is ridicul. That’s the Giannis was that when he got his arm pulled and it’s like that’s bridges. You encourage guys to do that. You’re going to get his arm pulled out of the socket. That has to be a flagrant every time. That part has been I think the worst of it to me. But you’re undersized. You’re committing fouls. So like that is your other big problem of why more than anything like that should be what the data tells you is like look this doesn’t work to play smaller. We tried it for a quarter of the season and the numbers yielded a disaster on the defensive end. Our offense was great, but great, what did that get us? Like we’re we’re not winning these games. So, we just have to play bigger. We have to play with more size and you have to play with more force. That is the only way you’re going to turn around those free throw numbers. So, the one player who really did that in the Wizards loss, the bright spot of it, and I guess we’ll save the silver lining for last was Kevin Porter Jr. who uh in his I forget I don’t think he played his full minutes load against the Nets. I mean it was the conflating factor of the Nets being the Nets as well. But you know in a real competitive game unfortunately for the Bucks had 30 points, four rebounds, five assists, three steals. I thought obviously the 30 points stands out. That’s not going to be an everyame thing. I he took he is a player who takes a lot of shots that are I don’t want to say not sustainable but there’s just high variance on some of the threes but also like the mid-range and he really had it going from there. Some of the stuff is sustainable. I thought his defense looked great and I saw the vision of like okay even if you start them together 48 minutes of him and Rollins bothering ball handlers like you’re getting dunks out of that that is sustainable. I mean if he pokes the ball out and has it in open court he’s fast. He’s gonna go dunk the ball. That’s great. Overall, I thought he had a great game. Uh Kevin Porter Jr. and I’m I I was open to the two point guard lineup just with nothing else seeming to work. And again, it’s worked, but it’s been two bad teams. Rollins had not his two best games. He had early foul trouble that took away his first stint that would have been just him running the offense and KPJ off. I hate that coaching adjustment when you do that that much because he ended with two fouls. So, it’s like you limited his minutes artificially. It was 5 minutes. Cole Anthony was a plus zero. It didn’t lose them the game by any means. That’s kind of an aside. Uh, but I think this can work. I think it can work for both players. But I am curious, you know, do they have do you think they have the right three for this because the minutes have been good so far, but I do think even though KPJ is a good guard rebounder, they probably need a good rebounder period in there. I’m not sure that’s green, but I’m not sure if if Koozma, KPJ could both have a bad shooting night, then do you get too crunchy? Like, what are your thoughts on this starting five? And, you know, do you think it’s going to be sustainable? I do think it’s pretty easy though to say, you know, you kind of have to just figure it out with the fit, but like KBJ and Rollins have just been clearly two of your best five at worst players and they just have to play more. Yeah. I I think to me the so right now I would go with this as we discussed the starting five of a front court of Giannis, Miles, Turner, and Koozma and then Rollins and KPJ in the back court. The tricky part with it is um I don’t really love bringing both AJ and Gary Trenton Jr. off the bench because it it feels like number one it’s duplicative but also it feels like one of those guys should be on the floor at all times with Giannis and by the numbers this year we’d say that one guy is AJ. Yeah. Um but we’re also as we’ve discussed in this the state of like well we got to try something figure it out and see if this shakes things up here. Um, I I wonder too like the longer you let Cole Anthony just kind of get out of his own head and go with we got these two guys, we’ll find spots to bring you in and try to like build him back up by that route if he does start to yield you some results and and plays like maybe not necessarily like what we saw against the Raptors earlier this season, but at least isn’t what we’ve seen in a handful of other games here. Um, but that’s what I would go with because of the defense and you know the same point of like I don’t really love bringing both AJ and Gary Tren off the bench. I also don’t I just feel like those are your two best in that position on ball defenders and can give you the most opportunities defensively to turn defense into offense. So, as as we’ve said through much of this, like to me, the defense is the most important part right now because it’s been abysmal. And there’s a number of factors for why. You’re following, you’re not rebounding, you haven’t done a good job of defending the ball. Um, Rollins and KPJ are two guys that have shown they can only stay in front of the ball. So, I would just ride that for now and see, look, if we lean into more of a defensive lineup where we still have guys that can score, especially if if KPJ is going to continue to shoot 70% on three and 60% from the field, great. Then, uh, all the defense in the world, that and Giannis should be enough offense. Um, that’s I think to me when we talked about what’s the fix for this, there isn’t a quick fix, but that to me is what I would look at and just say we think there’s an opportunity for this to be a really good defensive lineup and a lineup that can secure the ball. Let’s try that. Even if it means our offense that has surprisingly been middle of the pack just because of how abysmal it was with Giannis out for those stretch of games. Uh, even if that takes a step backward, fine. But the defense needs to take like two big jumps forward. Yeah, I I couldn’t agree. I just think that’s I think that should be the foundation of pretty much any honest team. I think the Dame teams are an obvious exception because of what Dame is, but they’ve had their most success defense first. And I think the other thing I don’t know if we’ve mentioned, they’re also, I believe, last or toward the very bottom of the league and transition points added. Yeah. Which that needs to that just hasn’t been a strength of their team for years now. and they have what should be the best transition weapon in basketball. They just don’t they don’t get into it and so it’s it doesn’t help their team last night. And I’ll say too, well I yeah, I was just going to quickly say I think we saw this last night, but I remember after the the Nets game, one of my bigger takeaways u was boy, I don’t know if like some of the the staggering that you do, I don’t really think it works to have KPJ play with Bobby because of the contrasting styles that they’re going to have here that he wants to get up and down the floor. And I I think Bobby, you touched on it earlier, but he’s been much better like early in the season. I remember a couple of stretches. I think one was in the Raptors game and maybe the Warriors game where there was the Bobby minutes and it would just be like one touch and a quick shot and you were trying to like this isn’t how this team has been playing. He’s gotten better at getting away from that screening more. Yeah. But you like you can still see like I don’t think it fits with KPJ because he just wants to go and get up and down the floor and find lobs for his bigs. Like he’s got Giannis a ton of easy looks so far. That’s not Bobby’s game. So I wonder if part of the staggering is all right when KPJ is on the floor it’s it’s Giannis and when Ryan is on the floor without you know those guys it’s Bobby. The tricky part there is we’ve seen Ryan be the guy that’s pulled along with Giannis earlier because like you if he’s going to shoot like this, you want one of KPJ or Giannis on the floor at all times. And that’s what makes it tricky is the way you stagger that. It’s kind of tough to avoid him playing with Bobby. Yeah. And I think that’s the other thing where Koozma starting could actually help is they end up with these bench groups where it’s Koozma, Bobby, Sims because you feel like you need another big out there with Bob to guard the rim. But then the offense with Sims and Koozma is just pretty untenable. I mean, it’s just not not gonna work. And the plus minus bears this out. Sims in 181 minutes, the Bucks have lost those by 115 points. Like, they’ve just been terrible when he plays. I’m not blaming him for that. Some of it is lineup construction, but also we just know he’s a limited offensive player. And well, there’s clearly something there, right? and even his ability to defend outside of the paint and stay in front of guys, but it’s it’s just like I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but it’s like from the makers of Andre Jackson. Yeah, I know. Comes Jericho Sims. I mean, I literally I think I’ve said like it’s like if Andre Jackson Jr. was a real center, which is kind of where you almost have to be with that skill set and didn’t try to be Magic Johnson. Uh, which is the other thing about underage. He hit Miles, I think it was Turner in the face with a pass and I was like, that’s not that’s not anyone’s fault. Like it took the Showtime Lakers a while to get used to Magic. It takes a while to get used to a player like that. I I would I would play him a little more though, to be I just even with limitations, Sims and Jackson Jr. Um, yeah, but it’s hard to play both. It’s really hard to play both. Um, I wanted to ask you about the plus minus demon of the team derogative, Gary Trent Jr. who is down to uh minus 124 in 620 minutes. And we did a whole pod about this and at the time Rohan and I were like, I don’t know, is this kind of random? Like is this things just stacking up this way? Like Trent hadn’t been great at that point and he’s actually probably been a little better since even. But it’s like hasn’t been terrible. He just kind of does his thing and he was a team low minus 12 against the Whiz in 30 minutes. And I I think I’ve determined the reason is it’s not really his fault, but the changing team and the changing league, he just doesn’t do the things we’ve talked about that they need from players. And he had one rebound in 30 minutes in his last, someone said this to me, like eight games. He has some very low amount of rebounds in all of those minutes. And he’s played quite a bit in that time. And if you just look at like the the per game averages, I mean, he rebounds per game less than Cole Anthony, who is 5’11 and plays a lot less. He rebounds way less than Sims, who’s a center, but plays a lot less. Like, he just doesn’t give you anything on the boards. He’s not been a big assist player. He had no assists in 30 minutes against uh the Wizards. So, and he’s not defensively like he’s kind of a splash plays guy. He hit a block in that game. The steals against Kevin Durant were incredible in that Wizards game. Kevin Durant certainly got him back uh quite a few times down the stretch of that game. We know he’s kind of subsist on big plays playto play. I don’t think he’s really helped them defensively. He’s shooting the ball well. He’s one of their best shooters. He’s one of the best corner shooters in the league. I think he’s kind of a microcosm though of the whole team of like that’s great. That’s valuable. I’m not saying oh terrible contract anything else. He’s not been a bad player, but like he is probably the epitome of we are too deep in shooting and we’re not doing enough else. And I think because there is so much of that already on the team, his minutes are just not going well cuz that’s not what they need. They need more of whatever Koozma gives you, whatever Andre Jackson Jr. gives you. Even if those guys aren’t as good and they’re certainly not as good offensively or shooting the ball specifically. Yeah. They’re helping you more right now because you need that other stuff. He’s um with him on the floor, I think they have like a 121 122 defensive rating in their minus 9 or minus 10 in net rating. Yeah. Um you know, they they’ve been really good offensively. And I think that’s the other thing that would surprise people is kind of similar to last year. He started really cold. Now he’s hitting shots again. You look up the numbers like, “Wow, I didn’t realize that’s his shooting percentage this year.” Last year though, you know, this caught me by surprise because I just remember it being so much better. And granted, part of it was we we looked at the back half of the year. Yeah. But with him on the floor last year, it was a 118 defensive rating and they were basically net neutral. They were plus one in net rating. So like we had this notion too of like, well, everything works with him and Dame and Giannis. Uh and then towards the end of the year, well, Gary Trent Jr., KPJ, you know, the sample size that we heard about from John Horse and how this group worked, it just hasn’t. Um, you know, he’s undersized, he is a gambler, and sometimes it pays off. It really pays off when you have solid defenders around him that he can come through with those steals and trigger loose balls and create some transition opportunities. But again, with the way that they’ve utilized these lineups, you haven’t had that. saved for the first couple games of the season when you started him. If he’s playing with the bench heavy lineups, you know, everything, it’s not just the defense, but everything’s been a disaster with that second unit. So, I I think that really kind of minimizes his impact. And you know, you go you go back to the summer and I I think to your point of what he maybe doesn’t do as well as some other players despite the ability to score and do more than just catch and shoot. Um, you know, like I I think we’re seeing why for two straight years this guy was available basically for the the veteran minimum. And I remember I forget who it was, but a pretty prominent NBA podcaster talking about Gary Trent Jr. and the signing that the Bucks made. And again, if you have him for the minimum, great. That’s a high value contract because of the potential upside that is there. But I remember this notion too, which I I believe too, and now I think we’re starting to see Nah, of why would I want to play pay Quinton Grimes $20 million or X amount of dollars when I can get Gary Trent Jr. for the minimum, which like on the surface like sure, yeah, they’ll probably score around the same amount of points if they get the same touches, but as we’ve seen, well, it’s because Quinton Grimes can defend and Quinton Grimes not only defend, defend up, he can rebound, and it’s the other things that he does, which again, it’s not just Gary Trent Jr., it it’s just you’re not getting all of that from up and down the roster, basically everyone but what, three guys? Yeah. Uh I think it’s 100% true. Um, and I think this is really like I’m guilty of this before this season. Like you’re looking at player stats and the advance or even just the basic and it’s like what do you look at? What’s the points? Maybe the steals and blocks, but I think all defensive stats are kind of flawed. You kind of just have to listen to what people say and watch them. But it’s like the points, the assists, the shooting percentages. Those are like the raw numbers that I think at least I was guilty of like, wow, that that’s what this player this is a great fit and it just glossed over the rebounding. And I think going forward we just can’t whe it’s Brooks, some of the other like not having Drew Holiday, I think although they’re they’re point guards I think are okay rebounding the ball. Um Chris, you know, Prime Chris was a very good rebounder especially at the three which he normally was. Um I don’t even know if Chris would come back on a buyout at this point. The team would have to be a little better. That’s obviously something people talk about. I was like I don’t know. He just beat the Bucks, man. Maybe he’d say they don’t want to get bought out and come over here. Um I don’t know. But yeah, I that’s something I’ve just been thinking about. They just clearly I don’t since you brought it up, I don’t think Chris is getting traded, you know, like we’ve fans have seen him twice this year and like he’s looked okay to good in those two. If you watch the rest of it, it’s been a different story. So, I I don’t think you’ll find a trade partner that it is a buyout, but for a buyout where anybody can have him for the minimum, like, yeah, there’s going to be contending teams and better teams that look at him and say like this guy can help run our offense with the second unit and give us some of those minutes for a playoff run. Yeah. And I think um yeah, legitimately I do think it’d be like because like hey great memories there but uh I don’t you the ship would have to be writed significantly by February or March or that happens. Chris comes full circle and signs with the Pistons. Yeah, I’m coming home but not the one you thought. Um and I also, you know, I think this is probably died down a bit but the romantic idea of like this is the small forward. The Bucks need height. Chris is not fixing this stuff either. um would love to have him off the bench. He’d be a great stabilizing force. They’re they’re thin at forward. Um we know the deal here, I think, or we should. It’s, you know, the injuries, the age, everything like he he’s not going to come in for I think any good team and be an elite starting option anymore. I think we’re just past that. It was unfortunately a trade you had to make. And whether or not you want to criticize, again, he’s been good this year. But if you want to criticize, got to get something better than Kyle Kosma, like in in a perfect world, yeah, I would agree with you because of how important Chris Middleton was to your franchise. But that’s not the guy that you traded. You traded a guy that was coming off of what, three, four years of inconsistency because of his health and injuries and a $30 million contract that he was, it was not a positive asset that you had to attach things to. and the second apron stuff, all of it. Like again, you don’t get Kevin Porter Jr. if you don’t make that trade because of the cash that was included in the deal. Um maybe Jericho was the cash. So I think but yeah, like you can’t do that. Um you are in absolutely dire straits. I mean, we saw they waved and stretched Dame, but you’re in very dire straits. If you come into the offseason and Dame Tears is Achilles and you still have Chris and you’re a second apron team, then like, yeah, sure, you can get out of it with Wave and Stretch, but you still have to figure out what are we doing with the rest of this group. So, yeah, there’s no Turner. I mean, for as up and down as it’s been, that’s now with if maybe Bobb’s playing better, maybe he’s not, but maybe Bobb’s not around. I mean, Brooke is certainly still gone, I think. Yeah. I mean, you could wave and stretch D, but to your point, like you still have an extra what, $11 million because of the CS deal versus Chris’s deal. That Chris going up, Cuz going down, which was a big part of it, too. Um, and also, I think that deal may it’s nothing’s going to age great for the Bucks unless they start winning. But the fact that all these injuries, AJ Johnson still not cracking the whiz rotation. Obviously, the pick stunk, and I think that’s one where the Bucks are really gonna feel and regret that draft in particular. Those two top picks. One of them is not playing for the Wizards. One of them you just cut and is now back in the G- League and his third different G-League stint. But, I mean, I loved Keshan George. I’m not going to sit here and go I’m a draft guru, but a lot of people love Terrence Shannon. I think AJ Mitchell went out. I mean, there’s any of those players makes a significant obviously a significant difference right now. and to blow both of those picks is bad. But you did use the Johnson pick as currency to make that deal. And it’s not looking like you’re going to regret giving up on a Hall of Fame player. We’ll see. He’s young. A lot of time left. But, uh, it’s not off to a great start so far for him in in DC. The other thing, last thing I’ll say is just as we talk about this stuff. Um, you know, Gary Harris has a minus 9.8 net on Andre Jackson Jr. minus 7. Sims is minus 29. Um, so these defensive guys have not been instantly working for the Bucks. I will say though, a lot of the times they’ve been thrown in in some pretty junk lineups or it’ll be like we’re going to throw these guys in because we can’t stop anybody. The other team is rolling, there’s injuries. Like I I there’s not just just that to say it sounds so easy, but the results haven’t been great. I think it’s worth exploring more. Um, but I don’t think to your point earlier there is I don’t think it’s going to be like we played Ajax and some of the Bobby and Trent minutes and suddenly we’re a 50- win team pace again. Yeah. And I I’ll say I mean I think I I I’m not a huge fan of the plus and I’m not saying like you are citing this as gospel. I kind of I borderline hate the plus minus number. Sometimes it matches the eye test but it’s so heavily dependent on who’s on the floor with you. Yeah, the Gary Harris numbers are the surprising ones because like that’s another guy that I feel like, wow, we we all owe a pretty big apology to because I think Gary Harris has been good for the Bucks so far this season. And a lot of his metrics I just kind of chalk up to he’s been in a lot of the all bench lineups, but his defense has been terrific for this team. If anything, you’d love to to try to get him to hunt some more shots cuz like how many times have we seen Gary Harris essentially having to play the three with some of these defensive lineups and bigger guys seeing, okay, I got this guy matched up on me. I’m going to go to work and he just because he knows where to be, how to position himself in quick hands, he just takes the ball from them and creates opportunities. Yeah, I he’s one. Do we have any idea the injury there? It was Achilles soreness, which you hear the a word, that’s scary. Yeah. Yeah. So, and what did he was it calf soreness that he had coming in earlier in the season that he was going to miss some time? Yep. So, yeah. Um I mean, at least he’s not your starting two guard, but um he’s been very nice for the team so far this season. Yeah, it is odd. He’s at really bad net with Giannis on too, which I expected that would be better, but it’s been 47 minutes. So, you can’t I don’t think draw too many conclusions. The the watching him, I agree. I I said I’d put my signature big like John Hancock on the Gary Harris apology form because I was like, what is this player option? Why do these agent favors? Everything else, he looked great. I mean, I’ve been bemoning they don’t have anyone who plays like Wes Matthews. He was giving them some of that like, wow, his arms are You just wish he was like three inches taller. I know. I know. But um he was helping I think still even with those numbers he was helping. I I was a big fan of his. Hopefully he’s okay. Um and I think this one the last one I wanted to ask you just injuries just talking to people around the team. Um I keep getting questions about Prince. Um clearly it seems longterm neck surgery. I I don’t know if it’s longterm enough that they’d be able to apply for the disabled player exception. I also frankly don’t think it would really matter. It gives you half of his salary. He’s on basically a minimum. Yeah. It wouldn’t. It doesn’t give you a roster spot. You need four players out long term for that. The Pacers got that earlier. That’s the Now I’m forgetting what that’s called. Um there’s another thing that’s not the disabled player exception. I I don’t know if they’ll apply for either. It does. My assumption though it’s been like probably months like it’ll it’ll be a while that the term they used was indefinitely. Is there any kind of I guess like update with the team on or around the team on like what that’s like or is it kind of just like let him heal. That’s a very serious thing. Uh there’s been no updates from the team. I’ve heard some things that I probably am not liberty to share, but I just I wouldn’t count on his return being anytime soon. Yeah, I think that’s I think that’s with that with having less info than you, but just like seeing how this went in general doesn’t sound good. Yeah. Yeah. Um a serious thing. So, uh they miss him right now for sure. again just like a bigger player who was one of the best shooters in the league. Think about those statements of like, man, they’ve really missed Kevin Porter Jr. and Torian Prince. That has been where we’ve been at for sure. Um, all right. I’ve kept you a really long time. I appreciate it as always, Justin. Let me know if there’s anything else that we forgot to say or otherwise where people can find you and your content all over the place. Uh, I think people probably found enough of me. Uh you can hear me daily on Locked on Bucks on as you mentioned on the Bucks Radio Network for all 82 games and then um if you are so inclined on on Blue Sky and Twitter as well to find me there. I think it’s Justin Garcia NBA. There we go. Nice and easy. Go follow Justin if you’re somehow not already. Uh follow me at Taiwish. Follow the pod at Eurostep Pod or podcast. One of the two. You’ll find it uh on Twitter. Make sure to subscribe if you haven’t already, wherever you’re watching or listening, both to us and to Locked On Bucks. Uh check out the radio broadcast for more of Justin. He does a great job on there. It’s always nice when I’m driving or just in the mood for it to flip that on for additional coverage. Thanks very much for watching or listening Pod Random and we will talk to you next time.

The Milwaukee Bucks remain outside of both the playoff and play-in picture in the Eastern Conference after blowing a big second half lead against the worst team in the conference on Monday night, this time with Giannis Antetokounmpo in the lineup and despite a 30 point performance from Kevin Porter Jr.

Ti Windisch welcomes Justin Garcia on the pod to discuss if this is as bad as it feels and to explore what’s gone wrong and if Milwaukee has a way to turn this around fast ahead of a tough upcoming week.

Be sure to follow Justin on Twitter and Bluesky at JustinGarciaNBA, and check out his work with the Bucks Radio Network and Locked On Bucks podcast.

GSPN’s Bucks podcasts are presented by PrizePicks – Go to https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/GY… and use code Gyrostep for a $50 bonus when you play $5! It’s GOOD to be right.