Are the Pistons the best team in the East?

Are the Pistons the best team in the East?

[Applause] Good morning and welcome to the NBA daily for December 2nd, 2025. I’m Dave Defor here with Zena Kada. Coming up, last night was upset night. A bunch of good teams lost to bad teams. We’re going to talk about that and we have Hunter Patterson on to talk about the Pistons holding off the Hawks and a big win. Good morning everybody. Good morning Zena. Hope you recovered from the weird night last night. Um, it was very weird. Whatever you thought was going to happen, flip that on its head. I wanted I wanted to say, you know, Thanksgiving hangover games or something like that, but no, all of these teams have played since Thanksgiving, including the Rockets beating I mean, they destroyed the Utah Jazz yesterday uh on Sunday before just looking completely out of sorts for most of the game and losing to the Jazz unexpectedly. Um, if we were to rank the losses for the Rockets, the uh the Lakers, the Bucks, and the Nuggets from last night, Zena, who had the worst loss to you? I I think I got to go with the Bucks. I got to go with the Bucks. Well, it’s the Wizards. Yeah. Yeah. You just got to look at the the timeline here. So, they they lose seven in a row and they beat the Nets and you’re like, “Okay, they’re going to come up come up here. They’re about to play the Nets. They’re they’re going to Washington Wizards. These are the two worst teams in the league right now. This is where you get your confidence back. It’s the get right and it was the get right games. Exactly. And the fact that Washington had two wins on the season and they didn’t have Alex R available to play. So it was like, oh bet. That’s a that’s a lockin game scheduled L for the Wizards. And what I love the chef’s kiss about the way that the Wizards won this game, it was behind the old heads. That’s right. We’ve seen the the shift of what the Bucks wanted to get rid of the older guys away from Giannis, right? Replenish the team with some younger talent. And don’t get me wrong, Kevin Porter came back in his second game off his knee injury, played phenomenally, 30 points, like eight made threes. He was awesome. Don’t get me wrong. But when you looked at the steady, heady, big plays down the stretch, Chris Middleton had the go-ahead three-pointer and had a jump shot, got fouled to be able to even get them in the position to tie it up and then go uh into that three-pointer that won the game. But then CJ McCullum 28 points as well. These aren’t these aren’t the young guys taking over and beating this team. It was a balanced effort, but it was the old heads. Yeah. That were able to say, you know, Giannis, you might miss us. You might miss Chris Middleton revenge game is is always a fun time. Um, okay. So, the Rockets though, Zeno, like what happened with them? They they just completely crush the Jazz on Sunday. Kevin Durant’s first game back. He looks amazing. You fast forward to Monday, they look bad, real bad to start the game. Kevin Durant winds up going 10 of 25. He does wind up scoring 32 points, but he did not look very sharp doing it. Um, meanwhile, the Jazz just like especially down the stretch, they were able to answer the Rockets every single time. Yeah, it was a balanced effort from the Utah Jazz, which you couldn’t quite see that with Houston. I feel like Houston was really forcing shots as you mentioned. It just didn’t look as sharp offensively as what we’ve seen Houston be. This is why they are the third ranked offense in the league. But against Utah, you just saw the pressure outside particularly really make Houston uncomfortable in trying to set up whatever they want to do outside. Kevin Durant was turning the ball over. Um there was a lot of one-on-one ISO opportunities. They started strong, don’t get me wrong, but then there was a run at the top of the second quarter that Utah literally just tapped into everyone down their stretch. It was Lori Markin, uh, Yousef Nerkach, like everyone had a few layups, few shots. Mailoo, Keonte George, you know, had three-pointers in that run and they kept that run. They were able to sustain that run. And that’s huge for Utah to have young guys that have really struggled to close all season long to be able to keep and sustain that that lead against Houston. But the biggest difference, I don’t I don’t want to put too much stock into this loss for Houston. Number one, it was a backto-back. Houston hasn’t had many backto-backs. They’re actually pretty behind in comparison to the rest of the league in the amount of back-to-back games they’ve had this season. But second game of back to back and then the biggest factor, Keonte George the night before night difference, zero zero for points, two assists, eight turnovers. Like he did not have a good game. And the Utah Jazz overall did not have a good game. the ball was not hopping the way we saw it last night against Houston versus the next night 28 points goes off like making threes dunks in transition uh like going on people’s heads like he was everywhere getting to his spots. Uh it was a lot of fun to watch Utah. But I I’m not putting too much in this. No, no, no, no. And and for real like they had a backto back with the same team on the road. you you’re probably going to lose one of those. And Utah is a they are decent team. They’re not they’re really not awful. I mean, you know, Lowry Markin is a very good player and we we talked about Kante George and some of the stuff that he’s shown this year. Um yeah, you can’t win every game, but yeah, hey, big win for Utah. I do I do I’m going to change my tune for the Denver Nuggets because the Denver Nuggets losing to the Dallas Mavericks is just downright sad. They’ve lost four straight games at home. The Denver Nuggets are supposed to be one of the title favorites. And I understand, look, they’re down two starters. They’re down Christian Brown and they’re down Aaron Gordon. And it is killing their defense, but so is Nicole Joic. Nicole Joic is killing their defense. I mean, someone put together a super cut from one of his games the other night, and it is awful. I mean, it is just like, please try uh just try. But um Denver not looking great. On the other hand, the Mavericks might have found um you know, like a little bit of footing here, right? We talked about Cooper Flag coming in a little bit out of position that, hey, you’re going to be the point guard. As soon as they’ve paired him with guards regularly, he has been fantastic. And I I thought last night again, he is on a run now of just putting together complete game after complete game after complete game. He was great. Mav’s best game of the season, maybe. Yeah, absolutely. favorite statistics or like stat facts coming out of this game. Ryan Mhard, first point guard in NBA history to record over 25 points over 10 assists with zero turnovers on 100% true shooting. First point guard in NBA history. Okay, then let’s keep it going. Ryan Mhard is the first rookie to have a game with more than 25 points, more than 10 assists, with zero free throw attempts since, take a wild guess. Oh, I mean Steph Curry, his brother Andrew in 2023. Okay. Isn’t that great? I I just love how much Ryan Mhard is just like risen to the occasion. This guy’s on a two-way, by the way. Like Dallas is going to have to sign him before he gets to that 50 game mark. He’s on a two-way. He has earned the trust of Jason Kidd because he is a a heady player. He is just like his brother, people. Like, this is what he does. He has a high IQ of the game. You saw him throughout this game just like proddding around the trees, doing just enough on his screens, being really methodical about how he got past folks, and then being able to pick up the speed once he realized he pulled someone and being able to pull up in transition. Like there was one move he had over Spencer Jones, who by the way, we should absolutely call out the fact that Spencer Jones balled out. Found money. By the way, this is the the silver lining of having a couple guys out is that Spencer Jones is a is a real basketball player. Yes. I mean, he was shooting out there like he made up the act, but now I haven’t seen a guy shoot like that since the old double dribble game on Nintendo. I mean, he if you guys haven’t seen Spencer Jones, if you haven’t seen his shooting form, it is the exact I mean, it’s he’s got this little lean thing happening. It’s it’s it’s jarring to see, but it goes in, man. I mean, he can shoot. Listen, I think it’s beautiful because it goes in. Exactly. I’m like, that’s what matters. It’s different. It’s different. Um, but he was the main reason that the Nuggets were up in the first part of that game. 41 points in the first quarter and then it was Ryan Nemhard time and he goes 100% in the second quarter for 11 points. Then does it again in the third quarter with 15 points. And Ryan Nemhard like he had some like AI moves out there like getting guys to pull up, crossing over, rejecting screens, two dribble. I was just it was beautiful to watch. You want to talk about somebody that has a pretty shot? Ryan Mhart. Absolutely. Spencer Jones puts it in though. Um, yeah, this is really special for the Mavs to have been able to find because we know without Kyrie Irving, the calling was supposed to be D’Angelo Russell, right? And now you see him on the bench behind the likes of Jaden Hardy, behind the likes of Andrew Nemhard, and this could be something here for the Mavs. Yeah. Uh, and finally, Zena, you ever heard of Colin Gillespie? I mean, of course you have, but had you heard of him before last night? I think it’s Is it Gilpsy or Gypsy? I mean, you know, to be fair, I don’t listen to a lot of broadcasts. Same. So, and I will read, you know, I read his name. So, I’m hoping it’s Gillespie, the common pronunciation, the hard G there. Um, he had 28 points, was eight of 14 from three, absolutely on fire against the Lakers last night. The Suns continue to be scrappy and the Suns did this Zena Devin Booker, they lost him in the first quarter to a groin injury. So for the most of the game, they did not have Devin Booker, but they had Dylan Brooks who just again this guy has turned into I don’t know an actual shooter number one where you were scared when he’s open, but number two, he is a culture setter and he has totally changed who the Suns are. No, I loved the energy that Dylan Brooks played with because I really think it set the tone for how Phoenix showed up and how they’ve been showing up. like they’ve been a team that runs like crazy on teams and they play really tough defense against you and like that starts really with Devin Booker and I think that this is something that I all of us underestimated just how much of a culture ad Dylan Brooks would be alongside the likes of a Dylan a Devin Booker because we saw Deon Booker have to be the offensive generator for his team but we knew he was capable of defense but when you have to do so much offensively you can’t quite get that out there. Now, it’s a much more balanced attack in terms of the production defensively and offensively, and the whole team has bought in. And when you’ve got Dylan Brooks practically growling after he’s scoring or or getting in passing lanes, like it just energizes you in a different way. And then you already have the athleticism of your bigs like Mark Williams and then you add in Ryan Dunn and Igodaro and and you also have the scoring capability of Colin. It’s like, yeah, this makes a lot of sense that they’re running teams out and they’re performing incredibly well in the West. Yeah. I mean, look, he he was eight of 14 from three. He had a really nice finish uh late in that game. I mean, it wasn’t even close for for most of the second half. They just What was the I did listen to that broadcast at the end. Um and I just love this godlike range. Yes. It was crazy what Colin was putting up. Oh, yeah. He was just I mean, it was just instantaneous. He had a a bright green light. Um, and we should note LeBron James 10-point streak still alive. So, it has been going since the Bush administration, folks. Wow. Yeah, that is a joke. That’s a joke. I mean, legitimately, Zena, his 10point scoring streak can vote in next year’s election. Can can his straight drink? Uh, not yet, but I have a feeling, I mean, look, you know, it’s one of these things where we are now at the point where LeBron decides when this is over, not the streak, cuz the streak really did almost end. Um, you know, and he hit four points in the third quarter that I will say, look, he hit a three. You know, it’s garbage time. I’m not going to take it away from him. I won’t disparage him. Uh, but this streak could go on as long as he wants. I mean, 10 points. LeBron could probably score that until he’s 50. So, I think that that’s maybe maybe it’ll get drinking age. We’ll see. I guess we’ll find out probably at the end of this season. Guys, stick around after the break. I’m pretty sure Hunter Patterson’s drinking age, but I don’t know for sure. He’s here to talk about the Pistons. [Applause] Zena, we uh like to pick our favorite teams around here and last night had a pretty fun game. our Pistons and our Hawks without Trey Young. I know. And our man Hunter Patterson was in the building for it. Hunter is here. The Pistons uh I mean look man, they’ve won 15 to 17. Get a big win over a over a really tough Hawks team thanks to Cade Cunningham taking over the last three and a half minutes of this game. Uh tell me about these Pistons, man. It’s been a minute, but they keep winning. It seems like they just love muddied up kind of not clean games that always come down to the wire. This this kind of just seems like the norm with them. But they did have a different closing lineup than they usually do. Duncan was out tonight. He missed his first game of the season with an ankle sprain and they ended up closing the game with Cade, Assar, Caris, and the double big lineup they like to call it between Stu and Duran. And JB mentioned postgame that that lineup just gives them a lot of versatility on both ends of the floor. It allows them to get out and run where they’re best in transition. So I I think although it it came down to the wire like they usually do, this was just kind of another win where they were able to figure it out in an unconventional way. I love the JD and Steu lineup. I I’m gonna dig deeper into finding out more about how they match up as a double big lineup in comparison to others because the fact that Stu can hit that outside shot as well as bang down low in the post and rebound so hard alongside what we saw Jaylen Duran pulling out his handle against the Hawks as well dribbling on baseline going past folks. I mean a crossover that I did not know was in his bag. So, I do love the fact that the bigs are doing their thing, but my I’m focusing on this backcourt situation. Like Kate Cunningham most fourth quarter points this season, third most points in the clutch. And we know when you’re thinking about a team that has championship aspirations, which they all do, but teams that are actually close to it, teams that only have one closer limits them, right, in the long term. And I’m looking at Cade. We know he’s been a closer. He’s capable of doing this, but we’re seeing, you know, Caris Levert pick up a little bit more of his production alongside him. There’s more options, I think, that are rising as a second option um alongside Cade, but this has been a thing. Anyone on your radar that you see that could be that next person alongside Kade so he doesn’t have to shoulder that burden, particularly in the fourth quarter in the clutch? I think it’s probably a combination of him and JD. They um just they they connect well in pick and roll situations. Like you mentioned, JD was uh taking Mo off the dribble. Um he was even kind of getting to it with Big Oaka Kongu getting past him. And he’s he’s just showing more versatility as as far as his ball handling. I won’t say three level scoring because he he mentioned the the three-point shot, but he hasn’t really taken many of those, if any, this season. But he’s that’s the only reason I don’t have him on my radar as that second option cuz he can’t hit that outside shot consistently just yet. But yeah, I do like JD. Yeah, he’s he’s one option. I think Caris, he’s shown over his career, he’s he’s had the ability to go for big games. Um he’s still kind of in the process of just finding out uh where he’s best with this Pistons team, but I I think as of now it seems like it’s shaping up to be carish. Um JD a little bit as well. Ron had six fourth quarter points, although he didn’t didn’t close with um the closing group that I mentioned earlier. But I think that’s part of one of the challenges that they’re still trying to figure out on this team as far as who is that second scorer that that can create their own outside of K. I I think it’s unconventional, but it is Duran right now. You know, this guy like you watch the way he can put the ball on the floor. He just kind of has a knack for getting himself into position to score. Um and then once the passing comes out of that, which we’ve seen a little bit more this this season, I I think he’s going to have even more scoring opportunities with the ball in his hands. Um, it’s just going to be about seeing the court for him. But I want to talk about this Pistons defense because right now, like they’ve got the third ranked defense in the league. They just held the Hawks to 98 points. That’s only the second time all season that the Hawks have been held under 100. And they’re running, like you said, this big lineup that they’re running out there with Cade Cunningham, Beef Stew, Isaiah Stewart, and Jaylen Duran. That’s so much rim protection. They had nine blocks in the game against the Hawks, one of the longest and most athletic teams in the league. They don’t get blocked a ton and Jaylen Duran didn’t have one. I mean, that just tells you like they they are just have a glut of rim protection. How are you feeling about their defense up front and on the perimeter? I mean, is this a team that by the time we get to the playoffs, we’re talking about them as maybe the best defense in the Eastern Conference? They could be. And and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were because Stu had five blocks tonight. Kade had three. Um Kade also had five steals. So with Cade being about 66, his frame is he has really broad shoulders. He can move his feet when he really decides he wants to be locked in defensively. So um he guards the perimeter well. Ron kind of personifies the approach that the team like to has like to have as far as um initiating their offense from defense and he spoke to that postgame as well. He’s someone who, especially younger players his age, they I enjoy playing offense, scoring to get themselves going. But Ron, it’s like if he gets a couple steals, gets a offensive board, grabs a couple loose balls, that’s kind of how he gets himself going. And he he enjoys getting downhill and and being in the mix that way. Um, so he he spoke to that postgame about his urge to be engaged defensively and how that pushes him offensively. And Stu is another embodiment of that where he’s getting five blocks in 25 minutes. So from Stu to Ron who comes in as a spark plug off the bench to Cade who uh is is a sneaky good defender. I guess if you’re not really as aware of him no D. But wait, the thing is I feel the same. We know Cade can defend. And I think it’s what just like related to is like if he wants to lock in and I don’t say that and then like you know he is flippant about it. He’s got an entire offense sometimes to have to shoulder but if he has the capacity to also show up on the defensive end we’re not only seeing the perimeter defense we’re seeing the help side rotations and blocks coming out of it. Like it’s it’s kind of crazy. This man missed 31 shots in a game. I mean, I like just the fact that, right, like the fact that he can play defense at the level that he does. No, he is a great defender. Um, and I think come playoff time, I’m I’m I’m excited to see what he does rising to the next level because, you know, Cade like this is a this is like the leap season. And I think to complete that once you get to the playoffs, you you know, they need to win at least the first round playoff series, if not honestly, make it to the conference finals. look like a conference finals team a as we’re a quarter of the way through the season based off what Dave is saying conference finals teams we know that these teams need depth and I I wanted to circle back to what you were talking about with Ron Holland because I think honestly tonight was probably his most complete game of the season like he had a great opening night game I think we all remember 19 points looked good etc but if you watched Ron Howland at the beginning of the season he really struggled with the fouls and we know that that was a carry over from last year. He was very foulrone early in the season. He seems way more disciplined now and way more efficient with his time tonight. 17.6 boards um and six of eight shooting in just 17 a little over 17 minutes. Like to he talked a little bit postgame about his adaptability not having to be this person has to put up a ton of shots from his summer league performance to now. Um, what have you seen in terms of like his growth with his efficiency and his maturity? Because his depth, I think, is going to be pivotal for how far they go in like a conference finals conversation. I think it it probably was a little bit of a challenge for him early on where his shot wasn’t falling the way he wanted to, but he’s he he just has a supreme level of perseverance at his age also. Um and and just an understanding to your point about the adaptability he spoke about because he said regardless of which team I was going to uh in the lottery specifically, there’s going to be a an abundance of scorers. And for me, I want to play and I want to figure out what my niche is. And his niche uh here is defense. And it kind of just matches with his personality. He’s a part of the dog pound, which which kind of they say they’re all the dog pound, but that kind of just includes Ron, uh, P Reed, Steu, JD. Um, and he he fits that mold where he doesn’t he he enjoys kind of getting dirty and grimy and and just buying into what makes this team what it is defensively. And I think he, to your point, Zena, is going to be a a really good depth piece and someone who can come off the bench and uh because he’s had to fit into different roles along his career already. I think the versatility he offers is is one of the most special parts about his game. Um we we just did a reddraft last week on the show of the 2021 draft. You know, Kate Cunningham, I don’t know if you heard of that guy, number one pick. Jaylen Johnson was in that draft and you just got a chance to see him last night firsthand and he has really stepped up in Trey Young’s absence and he’s doing some stuff that we I think we expected to see last season but he was hurt. What was what did you think of seeing him in person? I mean he he had an amazing game. Put us up 29 13 rebounds, seven assists. The guy is a Swiss Army knife. Um like he’s almost a triple double a night when when he’s really got it going. He’s special. He He’s special and he has something similar to Cade where when when the game is in the most tense moments and and some people may shy away that seems like when he’s at his best. He had 16 of the 29 in the fourth and at 1 to start the fourth quarter. He had outscored the Pistons by himself. He had 13 and the Pistons had eight. They started slow to start the fourth quarter. And he can do it from all three levels. He’s he’s knocking down threes. Uh he had four threes just in the fourth quarter alone. He’s able to get to the mid-range whether it’s a floater or a pullup jumper and he dunked on a few people tonight. So he’s been dunking on a lot of people this year. A lot of people look at that little dunk score on NBA.com and he’s constantly one or two from the night. I mean this guy is he is a monster. Yeah. He’s putting people in the rim and I think he’s he’s another player who’s so young that he’s just still figuring out what he’s capable of and it’s fun to watch it in real time as he figures out that he’s capable of pretty much everything on the floor. Yeah, the Hawks are pretty fun. Look, another one of these teams with a guy who’s out and we’re like, hm, do they look better without Trey Young? I mean, yes, they absolutely do. Uh, but that’s a story for another day. Uh, thanks to Hunter for hanging out, guys. Go and read them at the Athletic. uh for Hunter Patterson and Zenaada. I’m Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. [Music] [Music]

Dave DuFour and Zena Keita react a night of bad losses for good teams. Then, Hunter Patterson joins the gang after the Pistons win over the Hawks to discuss their new look closing lineup, the connection between Cade Cunningham and Jalen Duren, and Detroit’s defensive identity.

Host: Dave DuFour
With: Zena Keita and Hunter Patterson
Executive Producer: Andrew Schlecht
Audio/Video Producer: Grayson Moody

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/nba/

Full Episodes Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEuhZTLf0SW9N9etjaRh-KK7zRgKUOQ9l

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Timecodes:
00:00 – Intro
00:30 – Who had the worst upset last night?
01:10 – Bucks lose to Wizards
02:51 – Rockets look BAD in loss to Jazz
05:36 – Nuggets’ poor defense against Mavericks
09:25 – Scrappy Suns beat Lakers
12:08 – LeBron’s 10-point streak continues
13:21 – The Pistons keep winning!
15:13 – Backcourt options rising up
17:42 – 3rd ranked defense in the league
20:53 – Ron Holland’s complete game
23:05 – Jalen Johnson’s Hawks performance

Thumbnail: Rick Osentoski / Stringer, Emilee Chinn / Staff via Getty Images

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