Will the Cardinals Trade Willson Contreras? – Winter Meetings Preview | 277

Will the Cardinals Trade Willson Contreras? – Winter Meetings Preview | 277

We are just a few days away from the 2025 winter meetings and Will Cajurus like we thought maybe would happen here is now more interested in a trade. We already talked about plenty about Brendan Donovan be on the move and that’s a likely thing to happen here soon. Guys like Jojo Romero, Nolan Aronado, but the Wilson Contrarus thing I think is potentially the pendulum swing here from the Cardinals being an interesting rebuilding team next year to being a full-blown not good rebuilding team. We’re going to talk about the potential for Cateras being dealt. what teams could be interested, what the Cardinals could get for him, and are we okay with the idea the Cardinals might just be really bad next year on this episode of Dealing the Cards. Hey, welcome back into Dealing the Cards. Josh, Andrew, and Sandy here. We’re going to do a little bit of a winter meeting winter meetings preview today, but more so focused on that Wilson Catera side of things. This is your first time tuning in, subscribe to our YouTube channel. We go live multiple times a week over here on YouTube. If you’re on audio platforms, subscribe, rate, and review. Helps us out a ton. We really appreciate the support as always. A bunch of you joined us for the live chat today, so we’re already having fun with that. Um, we’ll get right uh at the beginning end of the regular season made it pretty clear who wants to stay in St. Louis. But I think all three of us are kind of like will he once they move some guys and then it’s uh after a week or so after Sunny Grey was traded. Uh we get that report from Katie Woo, which ripped Katy Woo moving to LA. So, uh, that’s sad for Cardinal fans, but she will be on her charity live stream next week or in a few weeks, so that’ll be fun. Um, she’s she’s going out to LA, but she did report that Wil Catus is more open to a trade now. So, I think it’s probably more in the vein of Nolan Aronado last offseason where he’s like, “Hey, I’ve got teams I’d be interested in going to, but if it’s not one of those teams and there’s not a compelling offer, I’m going to stay in St. Louis.” But definitely definitely something that’s on the table now. And you look at this trade market right now, you could say there’s like six, seven teams. Kids are going to be so disappointed in me for not making a 67 joke. Bloom. That was that was terrible. We’re moving on. What? I’ve only used that clip for so long. I’m Bloom 67. What a time. Um, anyways. Okay. But seriously, I think there will be a decent amount of teams that are interested in acquiring a Wilkeris, especially with this potential lockout looming where you can you can go after a Ponzo bat, which again in a vacuum pilonzo better play Will Cater. No one’s going to argue that, but you want to give that guy six Oh, well, I didn’t mean to do it, but six, seven years and a ton of money AE or do you want to give Wilker $18 million a year for the next three years? Wilson’s your guy valuewise, batwise, he’s top 25 bat in all baseball since signing with the Cardinals. you like that kind of production. Um, but I do want to ask you guys this before we even kind of go into the types of teams that that could be interested in Contraras and what kind of return they could get. I think we could probably argue if they move Contraras and we already are assuming they’re move Aronado and Donovan that this goes from a yeah the team’s not going to be like we’re not going to predict them make the playoffs next year but you know they could be interesting rebuilding to yeah this team’s probably going to finish fifth in NL Central and is not going to be a good team. Are you guys okay with the idea that I mean again you’re getting value back for Curus? I think we all agree that we’ll talk about it. But do you think it makes sense for the Cardinals to bottom out this much or do you think losing that competitive edge and veteran presence from Wils Couturas would be too much of a hit? Sandy, what’s your thoughts? Well, they’re going to be terrible if they trade Contraras I think. And I just I just wonder how the Cardinals fan base is going to respond. And I wonder like I think we we said an underrated piece of like the end of the Mo regime was that he stuck out some bad years to equip him to be able to contend right away and that’s clearly not the case now. Um I just wonder how do fans feel about this right? They’re they’re probably well Ali’s going to be back again. You know how does this affect his legacy if the Cardinals go out next year and lose a hundred games? He’s definitely gone. I think if that happens, well, they’ve been having extension talks with him, so he might be safe. It’d be so good. Um, but I just I just think, man, Cardinals fans have, this sounds mean, but in some ways, like I’ve been a little disappointed by the fan response over the last few years. Um, just, you know, I’m not telling people how to spend your money, but support the team, right? You know, uh, I do wonder how this would affect Cardinals fans. I think there’s a chance you see people get so fed up and when they’re fed up for this long, it’s going to be really hard to regrow that fan base. Every year you spend not contending, not being interesting every year you spend um and it’s it’s worse the worse you are, right? So if the Cardinals are truly awful next year and maybe the year after too, now I think it becomes really hard to get back to where you were in the 2010s where you’re selling out Bush Stadium 80 times a year. It just could be really tough. But, you know, there’s a comment right here that says, “Just rip the band-aid off. Just rip the band-aid off and let’s get on with it. The sooner we do this, the sooner we get back to contending.” I think I agree with that in a vacuum, but I wonder how most casual, not quite as plugged in Cardinals fans will feel. Well, I mean, we’ve got the reporting that’s been pretty vocal for a little bit now, too. The Cardinals have officially moved from uh one of the middle teams where they didn’t pay into the revenue sharing, but they didn’t receive revenue sharing to now they’re officially a revenue sharing team. And now they don’t receive as much revenue as other teams. But basically big picture is they don’t turn the revenue and profit they used to now. And so like again no one feels bad for the Dwits and no one should be like crying poor for them. But it’s clear they have m like they aren’t just lying and people are like oh they’re making money. I mean clearly the stadium has been empty. The TV deal has been weird. COVID there’s so many different competing factors and again most of all the team isn’t good. And to your point, Sandy, it’ll be interesting to see like does they does does this spiral into something that they never thought could happen if they get too bad. I would assume that Cardinal fans will see if there’s a young core building up and actually there’s a parallel I want to use with the team that none of us really like to talk about, but there’s a parallel that I think is real what they’re trying to do here. Andrew, do you think moving Contraras would be a bad idea? Um, no, not really. I mean, he only has a couple years left on his deal. Um, it’s kind of expensive, too. And you’re cutting payroll significantly again by moving him. And I I don’t see how, you know, I I don’t think training contras was necessarily in the plans, but I don’t see how that money can’t be reinvested into something good as well, right? Like you you open up first base for Berles. Um, maybe that gives you room to sign an outfielder um to to help out and maybe he ends up being better than you would have thought. And you know, the Cardinals, I don’t think, are going to just hold on to that money and they’re going to get something back for Contraras as well. They could go out and sign somebody that’s maybe more um either somebody that you could also flip at the trade deadline if things really bottom out or somebody that, you know, is a little bit younger and you could build around in terms of long-term future. Um, I’m not saying they’re gonna go out and like sign Kyle Tucker or something, but I could see them go going out and getting somebody a little bit more in younger uh a little bit more intriguing and a little bit younger than Contraras with some of that money. Um, in terms of the offensive side, I know they’re going to add some pitching as well. Um, so like I think they need to subtract from the roster before they add to it. I think that’s going to um happen definitely first, right? because they’re not going to um they’re not going to hold on to all of these guys and then sign somebody and then guess what Nolan Aronado has no trade destinations and they have to hold them and then their payroll is higher like that. I I think they have to make those moves first before that happens and they’ve moved Sunny Gray. They’re going to probably move Aronado in the next month or so. Contrarus maybe as well. Um, and yeah, like I think some fans might see that as like they’re just cutting their best players, but if anyone has watched these guys, like Contras is the one that I would be like, “Yeah, that would hurt.” But like Sunny Gray was really good. He anchored your rotation last year, but he wasn’t that good, right? Like he wasn’t the kind of pitcher that you pay that much money to. And I I don’t I don’t know if he’s necessarily a household name in St. Louis. Nolan Aronado is a household name in St. Louis because he had those two great years. And now I mean if you if you think the Cardinal Shaholan and Nolan Aronado um after watching the last two three years of him playing for the Cardinals, you probably haven’t been watching the last two three years of him playing for the Cardinals, right? I could probably not as tapped in and like it’s not going to really hurt the the product on the field if he’s not there every day. Like I don’t think that’s something that would would be a huge like loss for the team and then you can go reinvest that money. Um and you’re bringing in prospects. So I I don’t think this team is going to be horrible next year depending on who they bring in, right? Like Contras could be bad next year. Like who knows, right? that he like I don’t think so, but there’s a chance that he he is getting up there in age and he’s gonna he’s not going to be nearly as good as he was this year. That’s possible. Um but like you can go out and get use that money to get something else, right? For sure. Yeah. I mean ultimately I think if they hold on totally cool with that, but if there’s the right offer out there and they’re get I think they’re going to get really good value. We’ll talk about in a minute, but I I think is a very positive trade asset in this market and could really help this rebuild. So for your timeline, trading him makes sense. Um, and I think it opens up first base for Alec Burles, assuming you’re holding on to Newers for New and Walker open, which again, I’m not saying either guy is going to be awesome, but you give the opportunities for them to figure it out. You can fit Gorman in easily then. Assuming he’s going to still be around, obviously JJ Weatherhole will play every day. I think it gets the bats in that you need to get in. Um, and so all around, I think it’s probably a helpful thing. And I wouldn’t reinvest into the lineup at that point and let those young bats play. Um because at some point you have Joshua Bayas come up. You’re probably want to make some at bats for Jimmy Krooks at some point too. Like I’m not saying these guys are stars but you got to figure out they’re valuable contributors or not. Um but I I do see a lot of parallels between well first of all I wasn’t going to use bring up this one but think about Boston and Heim Bloom. Like when Heim Bloom came in he had Trey Way Bets. Guess who hated Heim Bloom and didn’t understand what they’re doing. And we still don’t understand why they traded Mookie Bets right but Red Sox fans. And they traded Denvers mid year. And guess what? They were really upset about it. But you know who packed Fenway Park when Roman Anthony came up and was awesome? Red Sox fans. And so I think in the immediate future, will the casual fan understand it? Probably not. And will they be like, “Why are you trading Natto? He’s a Hall of Famer.” It’s like, “Well, he’s bad.” Why are you trading Sunny Gray? Well, cuz you’re rebuilding. Well, curious. You’re rebuilding. But like, if JJ Weatherhol comes up and is awesome, and right now Rodriguez is awesome, and Liam Doyle is awesome, and then they supplement the roster. Like, I think people will have a short memory on that, and they’ll come back to the ballpark and it’ll be fun. It might not might not hit the heights it used to hit, but I I wouldn’t necessar I I would I think the only way this goes poorly is if you go down this route and it doesn’t work and then you’re still rebuilding and you’re still rebuilding and then you turn into like the White Socks. Yeah. Which I still don’t think you’d get to that point. But I think that’s where I I think you could hit the point of no return where you’re truly not going to recapture St. Louis like you used to have it. But I think that’s if he bloom fails. And I think we’re under the impression he bloom is going to do a good job and doesn’t mean he’s gonna win a World Series, but I think he’s going to turn this around, which makes me think I think the you have to take the short-term hits here knowing that it’s the only I think this is the only path forward to potentially actually getting back to where you used to be. If you kind of try to half do it where you’re trying to keep interest in the immediate future, I think it’s going to feel better in the immediate future, but long term you’re going to keep digging yourself a hole that they did in 2023, 2024, 2025. Like we could argue, even though I think in the moment all of us are probably like, “Don’t trade gold. Don’t trade Aronado. You could be better in 2024. You know what they should have done 2023? They should have traded Aronado and Goldmid. They should have hit the reset button and gone full rebuild, but they didn’t. And that’s part of why we’re still talking about the beginning of a rebuild in 2026 rather than they’re turning a corner. And so I I think he got to rip those band-aids off now. Donovan, again, that’s where I’m like I get trading him if you get an awesome offer, but he’s young. I do think there’s a there’s an argument for him to be part of the score. But when it comes to Contraras and Gray and Natto, you make those moves. The parallel that I’ve seen and I I’ve heard that the Cardinals kind of see as well is like the Chicago Cubs in the early 2010s where they liquidated that roster. They built it up with Chris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Will Catrus, all these guys. And right when those guys started to be good, they went signed John Lester. They signed Jason Hayward. They signed John Lackey. They made big trades. They traded for Ben Z. And they went and won a World Series. I think that’s kind of what the Cardinals are looking for here is how are what are their internal pillars that they built whether it’s Terrera and Weatherhole Reynell Doyle like once they have enough of those guys then they’ll feel confident going into free agency and spending money because they’re not trying to spend to fix the whole thing they’re like here’s the pillars we have we can add one more pillar and we can add the framework in other places and go do it but that’s not this offseason it’s probably not ne next off season but in the future so I think trading will now makes a ton of sense and I would do it. But Cassia, I I I appreciate your thoughts on that and I think you’re right. Like I think the casual fan probably doesn’t understand it. Well, that’s the thing. Like you think about you go to a Cardinals game next year, how many people are you going to see wearing jerseys of players on the team? Honestly, JJ Weatherhole might be the highest selling jersey next year, which is crazy. I just think like I think it’s not a critique of of most Cardinals fans. And I think most Cardinals fans that are listening to a podcast like podcast like ours are very plugged in, right? Yeah. you’re spending time to consume media about the sport on your off time, but the average Cardinals fan and that that’s who sells tickets, you know, like it’d be great if we had hundreds of thousands of of bought in diehard fans in St. Louis, but it’s a smaller market and that’s just not how things work. Casuals buy tickets, casuals buy jerseys, casuals buy gear. And that’s why I’m just concerned. It’s like, man, the Cardinals are are losing an advantage that they’ve had for a really long time, which is that they punch above their weight in terms of re revenue generated. you know, they’ve always sold so many tickets. They’ve had extra money to play with because of it. They’ve always and that’s been a great thing for them. Um, and losing that, I mean, you’ve already lost it, but potentially losing it worse. Cardinals made a roster move. Oh, yeah, they did. They claimed right-handed pitcher Zack Kent off the Cleveland Guardians. A grab portfolio ago. Great. That’s exciting. Cool. Yeah, man. That’s gonna be the highest selling jersey next year. But I just think you’re gonna you’re gonna see like you come back to Bush next year and I just guarantee you’re gonna see so many Aronado jerseys still. You’re still gonna see your fair share of Donovan and Contraras jerseys and it’s just like man who who is there even to like be excited about. For us, obviously it’s JJ Weatherhole. You know, there’s there’s plenty of young arms that we’re excited and we’re tracking their progress through the minor leagues, but I just I don’t know if it works the same way for a lot of casual fans and that scares me. Again, not a critique, just a reality. And I think if you lose, but at the same time, like St. Louisans do things. That’s a thing that our our city prides itself on. But still, it’s just if you lose the casual fan base the way that I think they could. And also, the grass isn’t necessarily greener after a rebuild. There are teams that just rebuild forever because it’s really hard to rebuild successfully. And the there are more horror stories, I think, than you know, great stories. But yeah, I mean, I think in a vacuum probably makes sense to trade Contraras. I just am scared of seeing the team lose a hundred games. Yeah. Experience all their City Connects because uh you know they like I think I’ve mentioned going to the ballpark you you look at the city connects that they’re selling and I’ve always wanted to get one. I think they’re really nice but they’re all Aronado Contrarus Walker and Gorman and Nupar. And it’s like why is Win not available? I think he will be soon. has I mean not soon as in I think this year he clearly will be um but I mean again part of that I think is because uh I mean they were probably trying to get rid of the stock they had when it comes to these other guys which is like I don’t know why Miles Michael was getting him in the first place but I will take a Walker jersey for 20 bucks if they want to sell it to me but that’s yeah well I could just take the stuff off the back and then have a you know Yeah. that’d be sweet. Before transitioning the contraras teams and what his value would be, Sandy, I think you think they’re potentially going to be worse than I think Andrew and I think at least. Okay. I think it’s possible they lose over like if they move Contras, I think it’s possible to lose over 100 games. I don’t I would not bet on that by any means, but I think it’s in the range of outcomes, but I would guess probably more your mid70s win team, which again, you’re splitting hairs there at that point, but like Wait, so you think they’re gonna be better than they were in 2023? Uh, possibly. Yeah. I mean, the pitching I mean, the pitching was so bad that year. It was horrible, but like is it is it going to be that much better next year? I don’t I mean I think there’s a lot of outcomes. I mean, their bullpen. I think it’s better. It’s going to be in our rotation. Yeah, Richard Fitz is fine. He’s better than Dakota Hudson was. He’s better than honestly I would take him over than Jack Flity that year. Like he’s better than Adam Wayright was that year. The black hole that was that fifth starter spot last year. Again, there’s worlds where this goes terribly. I’m not saying it’s going to go well, but I mean I don’t know. I think I’d say like 73 74 wins right now is where I put him at. And there’s still time for them to make additions and stuff. And I hope they do that, but I I don’t I don’t see them winning 70 games if they don’t make additions, especially because like we we’re we’re not even thinking about injuries that could occur, right? Like Ivon Herrera hasn’t played a full season yet. What what is what does this lineup that’s already potentially horrible look like if you’re now down I von Herrera for nine weeks? Yeah, not great. It’s bad. What does it look like when Jordan Walker learns how to put the ball in play and see what happens? Also, only two teams and I I’m so tired of watching the Cardinals throw a terrible offensive product out there and they’ve done it almost every year. I mean, it was it was like mediocre this year. It was not bad. Um it it was middle of the pack. Um or like slightly under middle of the pack. Also, the only two teams that lost 100 games last year, the White Sox won lost 102. So, like they barely lost 100 games. And then you have the dumb Rockies who lost 119. Like the Nationals came close at 96, but I think it’s really hard not to win 70 games. You have to be obviously I think it’s range of outcomes, right? Injuries happen and guys don’t perform. Yes, it’s possible, but I definitely want to be like they’re booked not to win 70 games. That to me sounds that’s that’s that’s that’s aggressive to me. But we’ll see. I don’t know. I think this was also a strange year where you didn’t have as many hundred lost teams as you’ve had in the last five years. You know, it feels like there have been four or five sometimes and I just think there’s every chance the Cardinals are a bottom five team in baseball next year. Yeah, you could be a bottom five team and not lose 100 games. True, true, true. And it depends what the top of the league looks like. It depends how the Central looks. Like if the Brewers go out and almost win a 100 games again, that’s a lot of losses stacking up against Milwaukee. Probably a lot of losses stacking up against Chicago. depends if these other teams like is Pittsburgh gonna get better, you know? Yeah, we’ll see. I I don’t think it’s that crazy of a bounce back, a fall off, but we’ll see. Um, so let’s think a couple response to our podcast and then we’ll uh we’ll move into some Contraras talk. Maybe some potential teams and what we think returnwise they could do here. But as always, we want to thank 314 Sports Cards and Collectibles, the presenting sponsor of the Deal in the Cards podcast. They’re located at 9640 Olive Boulevard and all of that. Open 10 to 5 Monday through Friday and 10 to 4 on Saturdays and Sundays. They buy, sell, and trade all sports cards and Pokemon cards at the new selections of packs, boxes, and single cards of local players and startups from around the league. You got to check them out. We’ll be there on December 16th for the charity live stream from 5:00 pm to 9:00 p.m. Uh Bernie Nicholas will be joining us in person, Katie Woo, Derek Gould. Um obviously Brendan Donovan will be joining us at the beginning of the night. Uh I think Trevor Rosenthal is in for that as well. And we do have I’m I’m really hoping we can lock in this other guest here soon. I get to share with you guys because be stinking awesome if he joins us. But we’ll see. We’ll see. Um, yeah, should be a super fun night. So, make sure you tune in for the charity stream, but most of all, make sure you check out 314 because they do some awesome work. And speaking of Brendan Donovan, want to tell you about one of our newest sponsors of the podcast, and that’s True North Gloves. They’re the official headband of Brendan Donovan. They make all these sweet headband designs. You’ve probably seen him wearing in-game. Like, this is I I’m not even showing it very well right now. Uh, the St. Louis flag one. Uh, they have all different kinds of designs that are Brenda Donovan themed. They have America themed, Vinnie Pascantino, all different kinds of things. They make batting gloves, pickle ball gloves, um hats, headbands, all different kinds of fun products. Some of you have already shopped there already since they become our sponsor, and it sounds like you guys having a good time with that. Uh make sure you check out trueenedgloves.com for their products. If you use our code truenorth 25, you’ll get 25% off your order when you purchase through them. So, make sure you go check that out. They’re awesome. Again, they are the official headband of Brendan Donovan. Um and they make headbands, batting gloves, golf gloves, pickle ball gloves, all that kind of stuff. So, make sure you check out the True North clubs. It’s local St. Louis business. Support local. They do great stuff. So, what’s Catras? I I mean, do you guys do you guys also think he would be a valuable trade chip like 23rd in baseball and WRC Plus since coming over to the Cardinals? I 129 uh ranked against uh first baseman. He’s only behind Freddy Freeman, Vlad, Yanni Diaz, Bryce Harper, and Matt Olsen in WRC Plus. Like, he’s ahead of Pete Alonzo in that stretch. He’s sixth them on all first baseman. clearly showed he can make that transition defensively this past year as a positive defender at first base in his first year. You would think he gets a little bit better there. I think his bat will continue to contribute. And again, he’s not making crazy money. He’s making 18 million a year. If he was to hit the open market right now, you’re probably looking at mid20 million a year bat on a on a one-year deal. And then over over years, I think you’re at least 18. And so you’re not talking about Gray where he was getting paid $35 million this year. He’s probably more $25 million arm at that point. 30 maybe on a one-year deal. Cardinals even eat a little money here. I think you’re getting something legit in return. And then you look at the potential bats you can add right now, it’s like you either pay a mega long-term deal or it’s like a lot of uncertainty with a guy. And so to get like that level of bat and not a super long-term commitment and a lot not a lot of dollars, it’s hard to find something like that. You get the competitive advantage that will brings you. Honestly, if you need a catcher, he could probably still get behind the plate if you want him to, but you’re probably looking at him as more of a first baseman DH type. Do you guys think there’s gonna be a market out there for him? There should be. He was awesome last year. If you look at baseball savant, he’s got red all over his card. You know, he finished in the 87th percentile last year in terms of expected weighted on base average. Um, still has, you know, 95th percentile bat speed. He can rip it. And he was great uh in the field last year. I think that was a super underrated aspect of his game. He was one of the best defensive firstmen in all of baseball. And he did that with pretty much what, like one year or one off seasonason to prepare. So, it was awesome to see him translate or to see his game translate from behind the plate to first base. Yeah, I think he’s a super valuable asset. Now, in terms of like how much the Cardinals want to save on it, right, if the Cardinals pay down no money, I think you get some stuff for sure, but I don’t think you get like the the hall that they could get. So, I hope the Cardinals pay down as much as they can and then they’re able to bring back everything. That’d be awesome. Yeah. I mean, not a lot of bats on the market. I would see it’d be interesting if some team is interested in him as a catcher. Um I don’t know if that’s gonna continue. Like he had some really weird injury stuff here. Um and also the Cardinals are trying to give room to Herrera. Like I I wouldn’t be shocked if some team um put him back behind the plate. But even as a first baseman, I think there’s a lot to like about the profile. And um yeah, I really like Contraras. I really like having him around. I think he’s fun. Um I like his his attitude um a lot of times with especially some of the NL Central rivals, but you know miss definitely be Yeah, I mean he’s probably other than like Brendan Donovan who we expect won’t be on the team next year probably one of my favorite guys to watch. But you know at this point a just let him go and and win something again um so that he’ll the only World Series on his resume isn’t you know the one with the Cubs. that would be nice. Um, and then B like you can get a lot for him and he doesn’t necessarily fit the timeline of the Cardinals. I don’t think I think given what I’ve heard from reporters like Jeff Jones, it seems like the the trade thing to me was more like a I I don’t want the Cardinals to just dump me after this experiment didn’t work and I couldn’t replace Yachti behind the plate. But now it seems like that’s not what they’re doing. They’re they’re trading him because he actually has value, not because they want to move off of him. And I think that is probably part of the reason why he’s more open to go. Once I heard that from Jeff, to be honest, I was pretty like expecting pretty much expecting something like this to happen at some point during the offseason and here we are. Um, so it’s not really shocking to me to hear that, but yeah, just let him let him go play for for another team. I don’t think he he would have, you know, a location preference like Sunny Gray. Maybe he does. Um maybe there are teams that he prefers more location-wise, but I feel like if you could go to a contender, a contender wants him. That would that would be pretty that would be pretty exciting for both the the team that is getting him and then the return package for the Cardinals. Yeah. And again, I’m when I say they could get a lot for him, I think you guys agree. I think it’s similar to Sunny Gray where it’s like now what like the surprise that I had where they got a controllable big league starter plus a high upside arm is kind of what I think you could do similarly in a Willis Cater deal. Maybe a little bit less maybe around the same kind of stuff, but maybe a big league arm or a couple prospects that have a lot of intrigue in a way that I just didn’t really think was going to be shelled out for a guy like Sunny Gray on his kind of contract. Again, teams are looking at this on value. I do think the first base side of things hurts Conturus a little bit because traditionally you don’t see a lot get traded for first baseman. But again, considering stay in the market, not a lot of bats, I think he’s a guy that seems to be interested in. Um, I want to rattle off a few teams for you guys to give quick context to see if any of them stick out to you or if you guys have any teams as well. I think New York Mets obviously could be a good fit because of the fact you’re going to be losing Pete Alonzo. So add him to Wanoto, Francisco Lindor. They’ve got a great pitching staff. Honestly, they could do something like this and then use some of their young bats and also some of their starters to go get that Terrick Scubble deal done that it seems like they really want to do. I can see the Mets being uber aggressive after missing the playoffs. Seattle Mariners, I know they just resigned Josh Naylor, but their DH spot is horrific. So, you can add a big bat like that. And we know championship windows can close fast. So, instead of having to go trade a bunch of stuff for Bren Donovan, they could trade bless to go get a Will Cater type bat. Uh Milwaukee Brewers, Andrew, I think you brought up a good point. Like I honestly could see him wanting to play with his brother because the big thing with this, you have to convince him to leave. You have to convince him to wave that no trade clause. So he’s not going to go to X team just because the Cardinals want to trade him there. Um he’s got to be somewhere he wants to go. Would he want to play with his brother? Maybe. Um and I could totally see why the Brewers would want to acquire a bat like that. Detroit Tigers. Um again, they they’re very left-handed dominant and I know they spent Torlson, but again they could DH one of those guys, whether it’s Contraras or Torqulson. Uh Boston Red Sox again I think they’re a team where Tristan Casus is coming back but again they’re pretty heavy on left-handed bats. They’ve been aggressive in the trade market so far. Could they use Kas and other stuff to go after a high upside arm again and go get Wilson to replace that? Baltimore I saw was thrown in the chat. I think that’s kind of interesting. Their first base spot’s really tough right now. Could he be interested in going there? I don’t know. But any of those teams stick out to you or there other teams you would throw into the mix is like I could see Wilson wanting to go to the Yankees even though I don’t I mean they’ve got first base pretty figured out right now Ben Rice but like is there another team that comes out to you or do one of those stick out to you? I like the Brewers a lot. Like you know I think the fit is definitely there. I think he would want to play with his brother. It would also be fun to see them take down the Cubs again. That would be fun celebration. Um, but you know, also trading within division, um, might get you a better return. I know the Brewers are smart. Um, they don’t they also don’t really want to add payroll, which is kind of weird because you would think that with the playoff run they just had, they would have a lot more revenue to work with. Um, but I guess their owner like really is terrible and really doesn’t want to reinvest. So, that could be an issue. But if you eat some some money on the Contras deal, I could definitely see a situation happening where you know that maybe they give you something back that you weren’t expecting. And um you know, the Brewers have a good system. You know, like they have a lot of guys that I think the Cardinals would be interested in. They’ve been really good at developing those kinds of arms that that Bloom would be looking at. And you know, if the Cardinals want to become the Brewers uh one day, but the Brewers with money, a little bit more money, not too much money, I guess, like kind of, you know, whatever. Dwits still cry poor, but it’s a it is a difference. Like it’s pretty significant for sure. But um I definitely think like that could be a good place to to go and get stuff um that you that you want. Um right. Like I think that would definitely work well. Um, plus like at this point I’m on the Brewers train. Um, because if the Cardinals are going to be terrible, at least they will win the division and not the Cubs. Um, so there you go. Fair. Yeah. I mean, I think they make a lot of sense. I just don’t want to see Wilson get traded. I just love him. I think he’s I think he’s uh probably like my favorite. I I know I love Donovan. I go back and forth on like who my favorite player on the team is, but on any given day it might be He’s not John King anymore. tell you, “Oh, too soon. Sorry.” Yeah, it’s way too soon. But on any given day, it might be Contraras, man. He just is so like his his love for the organization, for the team, like he sticks up for them. I love that about him. Sure, sometimes he gets a little too fiery and throws a bat at somebody. That’s not great. But 99% of the time, I’m all in on Will Contras. So, whoever gets him is going to be getting an absolute winner. Um, yeah, man. I don’t know. I just don’t want to see him get traded. I think the Brewers make a lot of sense. It would just hurt to see him in a Brewers uniform. Yeah, it’d be cool for him to play with his brother and I think that would instantly make the Brewers um the favorite in the division as well again next year if they’re not already. I just also wonder like how much do you think they’re getting back for Contraras? I mean, we we can talk package Well, it’s going to be hard to talk packages, but what what kind of like theoretical package would you send back? I mean, I would again instead of or like you said, instead of picking names specifically, I I would just go with kind of what we saw from the from the uh Sunny Grey side of things where they got again, it doesn’t have to be this blueprint of a a MLB arm plus a high upside prospect, but I think you can get equivalent value of what Richard Fitz and Brandon Clark could have been for you. Well, I hope so. And which but I think that’s more than people would have thought going into the offseason because again, he does make a lot of money. It’s a first baseman. He’s older like and not and he doesn’t make a lot of money in terms he’s overpaid. Like what if they could just pay pay down a year pay down this year. Yeah. I mean I if if some of this dude’s interest, right? Like just because you want to pay it down doesn’t mean a team would want to give up more. Like they might be like we’d rather just pay the money. Um but would rather give you stuff I’m sure though. Like there are definitely would rather the Orioles probably would rather give you stuff. Yeah. So I mean I would totally do and if they ate a lot it’s just hard to know. I mean, I would just again, I’d say maybe 20% more than what you got for Sunny Gray at that point then, which is a significant margin there. Um, anyways, it’s just it’s just so hard to say what the fit would be. I just think or what the return would be, but I just think it’s something that’ be worth bolstering your system for. I I saw the a couple things from people like you don’t have to trade him because in the chat because you’re moving people. I I get that. I’m not saying you need to do it to fit guys in, but I’m saying if the value you can get in return from him plus make easier at bats for other people, I think you do it. I think an underrated part of this too is Alec Burles was excellent offensively at first base this past year, but he doesn’t really get to play it much because plays it. Now, does that translate over a 162 game season? We’ll have to see, but he was like a 140 WRC plus bat when he played first base in like 40 games. So, again, does that translate? That’s such a small sample size, but I do think it’s interesting to see. I also think I know most of us are like all three of us are like, is Jordan Walker going to be something? Probably not, but if you’re in a lost season, it makes sense to get him out there and see what happens. Yeah. Same with Large Nar. Like you could flip like Nar is a guy that sounds like they want to keep because they think there’s more in the bat. If you play him every day and he has an awesome first half, you trade that guy at the deadline for a ton of stuff too. I I think it just makes sense to get those guys in there every day if possible. Again, even if you have contrar, it’s not that hard to do it, especially because injuries will happen. But I think that’s an extra side of it. I a couple other teams want to throw out there just because I was thumbing through and be like, “Oh, that could be interesting.” Padres’s eh, you know, you never know. They just they get creative with stuff. He’s making a ton of money. It’s coming. Yeah, Texas I think it could be interesting. But Philly if they lose Kyle Schwarber because Bryce Harper could DH more then he’s probably moving outfield but he could play first base or DH. Same with Wilson. Um they’ve got a big hole right there. Like right now Fang Grass has Auto Kemp as their DH. That ain’t happening. There’s no way that’s their guy opening day. So could they do something like that? Um I know a lot of people to connect them with Aronado in case they move A B. But like could Contrarus be that bad? and matching Contrarus in Philly. Like that atmosphere, that crowd, like that could be fun. But I I agree with you guys. I really like like as much as I like hate the Brewers at times if if someone’s got to win, I don’t want to be the Cubs. And so it’ be pretty funny to see Wilson and William just go to town on the Cubs, like I think it’ just be great. So uh the Mets, I think, just make a lot of sense. Um just because they have the assets to do it. They have the bat need there. Uh I think there’s a lot of teams that make sense. It’s just where like Arizona like makes sense, but like would Wilson want to go to Arizona? Like I don’t I don’t think so. Baltimore maybe, but like even I know I threw him out, but like is I’m trying to think what’s the team that they would he would be interested to go to that’s competitive. And the Cardinals also don’t have to make the deal happen. Like if they don’t like the offer, I’m sure they’ll hold him. Um yeah, Seattle always throw Seattle around. I wonder if there’s something there. Yeah. And like it also if they trade Conturus early it could let them extend Donovan but I don’t know if they will do that. I mean I don’t I don’t think any of these players are getting extended at this point. Win. Yeah, it definitely doesn’t sound like it. Yeah. Well, if we’re going to extend somebody, let’s get the win extension done. Please get it done yesterday. It’s crazy that we’re still waiting on that. Yeah. I Here’s a good question. Do you think the Do you think Contrarus’s market looks better before or after Petalono signs? Uh I don’t know if it matters. And do you think like man I I think I think if a team misses out on Peter Lonzo they might really just be like well we can get Will Contrarus and get most of that for way less money and maybe they get a little desperate because the the first pace market is so thin. So do you think do you think if you’re the Cardinals do you hold and wait for Peter Lonzo to set the market or do you jump? Well, I mean I think it’s if you get the offer that you like then you go do it. especially because he has a no trade clause. Like I’m not going to hold out on that and then him potentially be like actually I want to stay or I’m not going to wave it. Um so I mean because Naylor’s off the board obviously got Petonzo there and then you’re looking at like Luis Arise which is a very different kind of player and not a not really a great bass especially for for base Ryan O’Harn and then nothing else. I think I don’t I just don’t think I think it it plays into it where he could be a pivot but I don’t think it’s like I think a team like if if they want Will Catus they’ll make the deal now. I don’t know if there’s guys that are so hot in Ponzo that they won’t think about Cataris until then. I’m sure they’re weighing all the options. Um because what you’re starting to compare Contraras to is not just other first baseman. You’re comparing him to the idea of adding Alex Bregman to your lineup or Yeno Suarez to your lineup. I think that’s what you’re kind of looking at. Same with Pete Alonzo, but those are also different kinds of financial commitments. Especially when you’re talking about Alonzo and Bregman, you’re talking about mega deals versus two more years guaranteed to 18 million plus a third year about 18 million. Yeah. I don’t even I think we’re underelling what a great bargain that is and I think it opens up the potential teams he could go to because to your point a Milwaukee could be interested in him when they’re not going to go after Pete Alonzo, Alex Bregman, maybe Heno Suarez. Um but but also he has to wave the class. They they went out and got Reese Hoskins who I think is not nearly the bat Wilson Contrarus is, but they’ve looking for that power from the right side. So maybe there’s something there. We’ll see. I’ll be I’ll be very interested to see how that Yeah, I mean their offense is bad. So, need something. The pitching is good enough though and all around like they’ve got they made the playoffs. They they should be able to make the playoffs again next year, especially in an AL Central that’s going to be relatively weak again. I mean, if Detroit trades, it’s wide open. Kansas City is still there, but I think Cleveland might have the best shot to win it if SC if Scooble gets traded. So maybe they can do something like that and go add contraras to buff up that lineup. Yeah. I I guess just do you like with Cleveland though? Like do you see Wilson waving his no trade call to go to Cleveland? I don’t know. I mean I think if he thinks he can win. Yeah, maybe. But I feel like I don’t think it’s like as like cut and dry as just do I have a better chance to win. It seems like does he like love the situation? I don’t know if Cleveland would be I love it. I think Milwaukee maybe. I think New York Mets maybe. I think Seattle maybe, but some of this too because it’s I mean it’s like Aronado last year. It’s like man there are teams that weren’t on his list that are true contenders, but it’s like will he val I mean it’s not just win. It’s do I the family situation, the organization like all those type of things like is it all there? Would he want his would he want his contract reorked like Sunny Gray got his like that could be an element of this? because that sounds like that’s part of the Aronado situation is their Cardinals have to rework the contract in the trade too. And so that just adds all these other elements that makes it complicated. Um so I think in in I think we threw out a lot of teams that are in potential but in reality for Wilson it’s probably like three. We just are trying to guess what are the three teams he would like because you might think Baltimore is not that great but he might love it. I might we might think Milwaukee is awesome. He might like I don’t want to play with my brother. Like we’re just kind of predicting at this point what it goes. But um yeah, but like I mean this is the point with Steve Lewis, Steven Lewis here, like when you compare Contraras stats to other first baseman in this league like his his numbers are up there with some of the best first baseman in the league. They’re MVP candidates like a Vlad Guerrer and such and like a lot of until this year he’s been catching behind the plate with those offensive production. Now he’s at first base. His light he should age better. I I just I think he’s a guy that could be really interesting. So, I would I think a contenders will definitely be in the market. Um, one other thing just on the way out because I thought it was interesting. I’m sure we’ll cover this on throughout the offseason and give some more real thoughts to it, but like do you guys do you guys think like they would are going to or they have any any plans to extend Herrera or a win or potentially JJ going sometime this offseason or in spring training? I mean, the way they’re talking about JJ, they I mean, Derrick Goldman is pretty clear. They’re clear like they are fully expecting him to be in the opening to line up. They’re not like obviously he has to prove it in spring training but they’re they’re not like Walker where it’s like let’s see if he they’re like I mean actually Walker they wanted to make it happen but it’s I think this is more sure thing where they’re like yeah JJ’s going to be and it sounds like the starting third baseman uh maybe second baseman but to me Chile sounds like he’s the third baseman and I mean Rob Sfolio was just on MLB network and was talking about how Weatherhold’s a special player like this is this is not just your typical prospect like he’s a legit dude and if you’re going to be a small market team that can’t afford to keep guys around this is the time trying to extend the guys before they start making that money. Not JJ and Centerfield. We’re not I know we suggested at one point, but that was before this. Like you’re not going to do it now. Like you do it earlier this year, but like not do that now. And I saw I’ve seen some people talk about that. Well, I know that’s why I got thrown in the chat. But yeah, I hope they extend somebody, but I’m done predicting extensions because the Cardinals never do it. Okay. They haven’t extended anybody. Well, you can count miles, but they really haven’t made like a true bet on your own guy extension since Paul Young. They just don’t do it. And I just I’m not gonna I’m not going to predict it anymore. I can I can say all I want that they should have extended they should have extended Mason Win last year. They definitely should extend him this year and they’re not going to. And I Brendan Donovan last offseason. Yeah, they should have extended Brendon Donovan two years ago. You already knew what you had. Brendon Donovan hasn’t changed. Okay. He’s still the same guy that hits a ton of doubles, plays great defense, plays all around, is a great guy in your clubhouse, gets on base. These are all things we knew about him. It makes me so mad. So, I’m done. I’m not going to predict an extension. It’s I I don’t believe it. Should it happen? Absolutely. They totally should extend JJ Weatherhold before he ever takes an at bat. Do the Jackson Turo thing. Take this super prospect that you have and extend him now. But they’re not going to. Hey, I see it. Andrew, what do you think? Yeah, Andrew’s got a No, my friends send a super chat. Appreciate it. Yeah, Andrew, tell us why they should trade for PCA, right? They should not. Um, but that’s tough. Um, I I I lost I lost my train of thought. What was the question? Just like, is there anyone they could extend here? Real quick before you’re thinking about that, too. Oh my gosh. Trade win, pick up, trade, win, pick up, trade for O’Neal, right? What? Um, I would Tyler O’Neal, bring him back. I love my man. Um, hey, the the the argument the one Okay, there’s a part of me that’s a little bit like we there the person that made the the the JJ Weatherhold centerfield thing. We have ripped on other takes of his before. Now, I think it is a little funny that people are so mad about this one because earlier this year, people did think that could be a good idea and then they’re randomly like that’s not a good idea anymore. I’m like, don’t do it. But like, there is precedent for it. We have a Jackson Merrill who went to center field would play he played one inning of center field and like tw like 40 innings maybe of left field in the minor leagues. Um something like that like he barely had any time out there. He play Yes, he played 45 innings, five games in left field, one game in center field for seven innings before uh he debuted the major leagues as a center fielder and it was awesome. And so I think JJ’s that kind of um that athlete to do it, but I think you clearly have a spot at third base or second base. That’s where I’m like, you don’t why would you mess with that right now? You could potentially do Scott is like probably like provides you more value than most of the guys are going to end up starting on the team anyway next year. Yeah. At least who you start at second or third. I I don’t think Scott’s like if if if you clearly had other options second third base, I don’t think Scott is someone you protect center field for. Like if you trade Donovan, who you could play in the outfield, so that doesn’t even matter. You could like I guess whether Hol second or third would take away playing time from like Gorman or Saji and it’s like why why would you do that over Scott? Like I don’t get it. So JC is the guy who needs to pick up more gloves. Like they need to if he’s going to be on the bench. Yeah, let him play some outfield. Let him figure that kind of stuff out. But JJ’s we have to let Sajay start. I mean, I don’t think it’s the worst thing if you started, but like I’m also like, you don’t make it happen. All right, Andrew, hit it. Lose. The Cubs lose. All right, there you go. There you go. Do you guys think they’re gonna get Breman? The Cubs? Yeah, I heard they’re for Matt Shaw. Are they going to give up on him after one year? Please do. I think Matt Shaw actually might be good. So, please give up on him. Yeah. What would they Would they put Seiya in right field more then? Or left field more? I might trade him. That’s what I’ve heard. Okay. Yeah, trading Sea after the year he had is insane. Well, he really fell off in the second half just like everybody else. Will Contreras had a really bad September Samuel. Yeah, guys, let’s start let’s do a real and say the Cardinals need to trade JJ to make playing time for SJC. That’s a great take. I mean, SJ’s already had success at the MLB level, which Weather Holt’s never done, which I Okay, I’m gonna stop because I actually I love Thomas. I think he’s awesome dude and I really do think he’s like a really solid player. Could be a regular one day, but I just don’t think it’s like Yeah, it’s okay. The one that really gets me is I saw someone the other day. He’s like, “You need to make room for Nathan Church.” I’m like, “Oh, no. Stop.” Like, “No, it’s okay. We saw what happened when Church had runway. It was bad.” And again, I think he could be a decent fourth outfielder, but like Yeah. New outiel. It was really fun when Church hit that one ball like 460 feet though in Memphis. I was watching the game and I was like, “Guys, this is this is legit.” And Kareem Kareem told me it was an outlier, but I didn’t care. And I was so ready. And then he gets promoted and then it was just horrendous in St. Louis. It was so sad. Yeah. Oh well, these things happen. But you know what? They they acquired Zack Kent today. So maybe he is going to be as good as Jeff Kent. Who knows? Yeah, maybe he’s uh man, he’s that that ace they’ve been looking for. Maybe. All right, last thing. I know we go off the rails of randomness at the end. But I want to know what you guys think. The uh the comm is it the commissioners? I forget which committee. There’s like five Hall of Fame committees that rotate between voting. But the committee this time, Bonds and Clemens are on it. Oh, I think Barry Bonds should be a Hall of Famer. Think Roger Clemens should be. Do you guys think a do you think they should the PDA guys should be like not all PDS, but do you think like the A-Rods and Bond should be in I think Bond should be but not A-Rod because A-Rod was Oh, because A-Rod like Bonds didn’t break any rules. A-Rod did. Wait, Bonds I think that’s a distinction. Well, okay. So, Bonds didn’t get caught breaking rules is what you’re saying. But that wasn’t a rule, was it? Yeah, they were still banned substances. Yeah, absolutely. No, but like during the steroid era was fine. Was it uh I think they were just kind of getting away with it. Yeah, I think I think they just like weren’t testing. I think they like MLB knew what was happening, but like you I don’t think you’ve ever been I think there has to be a line drawn somewhere because I think if you’ve ever had like a PED suspension then you probably shouldn’t. I know like David Ortiz had one, but like I don’t really know if that was even like legit. I think you could clearly make I mean you could like it’s just a part of their history like put it on their plaque like you tell the story you say this guy you used and like when it comes to Barry Bonds and when it comes to like A-Rod like you could clearly see these guys are hall of fame players before the roids like clearly they got to another level that feels like too much projection to me I think the steroid era guys should be in not like anyone after that like once they started testing and being strict about it I don’t if when Fernando Tatis Jr. is eligible someday. Are you going to say no? Because No, I’m not. He’s also not even had that great of a career thus far. Whoa. Whoa. He’s been great. What? Like you look at his numbers like it’s projectable to the Hall of Fame, but like if he retired today, he’s not a Hall of Fame. Well, yeah, cuz he’s like 25. Well, yeah. Today, but he’s on track to be one. Yeah. Not like an inner circle guy though. And I feel like you have to be like an inner circle guy for me to even consider it. Maybe. But I don’t I don’t think I just Well, again, this is where I’ll get subjective where I just think you let them all if they’re they have halling numbers, you let them in. Like because also how many guys his numbers after the suspension and his numbers before the suspension are a little bit different. You can kind of tell that there’s like That’s true. But he I mean he’s regained some of the stuff defensively too where he’s playing like serious injuries though and still at at 26 years old he’s worth almost 30 war. Like this is a guy that we’re definitely going to be talking about. Just came off a six war season. Yeah, he’s elite. So, I I I think he put him in and I I just there’s a really good uh foolish baseball video he just did on the the guys who were and he Hall of Fame candidates for that committee plus just in general this year. And I just I only watched the last part of it because he said, “I want to go on a rant about this last thing.” I think it was really interesting. He’s he basically made the point that the commissioner’s office basically kept has kept or everyone keeps moving the steroid guys to someone else to figure out where everyone says I’m not going to be the one to vote him in and now it’s this it’s this committees and this writer group and this and it’s like MLB just needs to take a stance on it and do something with it and I mean and then also like there’s a guy like Carl Beltron where it’s like the cheating scandal. Does that affect anything for him? Like I don’t think it should. Yeah, I think it has but like is that going to keep him out? I think this year he needs to be a Hall of Famer. Um, but like I would love I think Bonsi’s get in. I just think it’s dumb that he’s not in there. I understand that you split hairs and it’s hard to tell with guys what they would have been without the roids. But like clearly Bons is one of the best players of all time. Can’t tell tell story toward the game without him. Like it just makes this a controversy all the time too. I think in the moment there’s be people are super upset about it. But then like give it a few years and no one’s gonna like people will say like yeah use rosids and it’s annoying but it’s not going to be some debate everywhere. It’s like oh the Hall of Fame’s so dumb now because he let those steroid guys in. It’s like whatever it’s fine. I think um I don’t know. I I think it’s tough. The Hall of Fame I I don’t know. I think if you pulled fans like 75% or whatever it is to get like in I think it’s 75% Bonds would probably get in. Do you think Hall of Fame? Do you think the fact that I’m ask GPT right now. Let’s see what it thinks. Has like made amends in so many ways. Do you think that matters? Do you think that A-Rod has like made amends in the ways he has? Absolutely. What? Like he wasn’t welcome around baseball right after he retired and now you see him calling all sorts of games. He goes on all he’s kind of bad at it and he’s like not very good. He’s fine. I But like I think he’s he’s he’s definitely worked on his image a lot since like those last days with the Yankees where things were kind of crazy and the biogenesis and all that. Like I mean didn’t he pop twice? Yeah. Like I I I don’t know. I I I feel weird putting him in there. Yeah. Well, I mean, he was like 40 almost 40 years old chasing that 700th home run and it was like you could tell he was gonna do whatever it took to get there. But also, it’s like I think it does matter that he’s done so much work to like reing himself. I don’t know. I think that matters. I think that’s a big reason Pete Rose never got in because Pete Rose Rose is going to be eligible the year pools and Yachty are which makes me scared for Yachti. But Pete Rose never did anything to reing himself with baseball. Yeah. A couple things real quick. B ChachiPT says Bry Bon be a Hall of Famer. plays Bonds the best baseball player of all time. Hey, this so the the 1999 which is what they they think is like it’s most commonly said like this is when Bonds started roiding or like started affect him. Three MVP this is before this three MVPs, eight gold gloves, eight allstars, 445 home runs and 460 stolen bases and he had a career war in the mid 80s already. Yeah, he was totally he was No, I get that. I I I think he’s like a top like 20 player of all time, but like if you look at his aging curve, top 10, if you look at his aging is like top five. He’s inner inner circle. You look at I’m going to say top 10 just because rate MVPs like that if you’re aging normally. Like that’s just not possible. You look at the ages that he won. Very won other MVPs if other guys weren’t taking steroids before that. Like also no one else has won more than three MVPs. He was competing with those guys early on. Like that’s so unfair. Yeah. Otani’s had three MVPs right now, right? Four. Four. Four. Okay. So, Otani is not the only other guy who is more than three MVPs other than Barry Bonds. Yeah. I I mean, I just I I personally think he’s the greatest baseball player of all time. I think Otani will pass him. Um, but I think you could say he’s at least top 10. Like, I will not accept an argument he’s less than I don’t know. I haven’t looked into it. I would I feel good saying top 20. I don’t know if I think I think top 10 even if you’re like are a problem and it’s penalizing someone seasons. What? Yeah. It’s insane. the the numbers. Yeah. When he was juicing because because they they just didn’t want to pitch to him. Yeah. I like that’s insane though. The level of fear Barry Bonds inspired in other teams. It’s the most insane. Like his stats break everything about Yeah. But also other guys have roided too like Fernando Taz like I’m not saying but like this dude like like it was an otherworld boy on on the roids. Like there I think there was a year where he swung and missed at less pitches than he hit for extra bases which hand eye coordination like that’s not steroids. Okay. That’s That’s insane here. Like if if you just like take a look at Barry Bond’s numbers, they’re just always they always shock me. I mean, this is nuts, man. 10,000 almost 10,000 at bats with an OPS of 1.051. OPS plus per year of 182. 82% above even in his last year in the leagues at 42 years old. He was able to recover 3.4 war with a 480 on base. The only reason, honestly, the only reason Barry Bonds wasn’t playing in 2015 was because the league didn’t want him anymore. That’s insane to think about. Like, he could have played forever, he was still, he had the best eye probably of all time. I mean, there’s I bet he could still hit today. Like, not like that good. Like, I’m not saying he’s like a like a legit big leager, but I bet that’s true. I mean, there there are things you never lose, though. Like, I’m sure I’m sure well after he retired, Ted Williams still had a great eye. You know what I mean? I’m still sure I’m sure he still had great bats of ball and I bet Barry Bonds could have done stuff till he was 46 47 years old which just nobody can do. That’s unbelievable. Bro has a 164.4 career F4. Yeah. And 162.8 V1. Yeah, Kareem. I’m taking prime Barry Bonds overhe too because Barry Bonds was on steroids. Dude, Barry Bonds almost finished with 2,000 riby. He finished with 700 intentional walk. 688. That’s That’s a Sai Young level unbreakable record. Yeah. The thing has never lost an elimination game in his career. Whatever. Show whatever. Um I think the thing that will be tough with or the thing that we just can’t wrap our minds around yet with Otani is clearly he’s not going to catch up to these all-time greats when it comes to home runs and stuff, but like he’s going to have like a thou like I don’t know how many strikeouts, but he’s going to have like a bunch of wins and strikeouts and all this stuff when the other guys have zero. Like like that’s inc. I mean, I know the D they’ll have defense, but like that’s the part that’s gonna be hard to wrap our minds around. How many How many career wins do you think Otani finishes with? Oh, what is he at now? I think he’s a lot. Maybe 50, but that’s that’s probably pretty high. He has People overestimate how much. Uh, wait, he has 39. He’s gonna have 50. He’ll get to 50 next year. Oh. Oh, you said 30. I thought he said 30. he was at still 39. That’s that’s wins to 50 next year. If he if he pitches a full season for the Dodgers, he’ll get to he’ll get 11 wins next year. That’s the thing is I just I feel like they’re going to not throw him the tradition. I mean, I think he’s probably more low 20 starts a year guy at best just to protect his pitched 528 innings in his career. How many more innings you think he pitches another 250 innings in his career? Oh, you think the Dodgers let it like I I wouldn’t let him pitch. Yeah. Why would you not? Because he’s already an MVP. I’m not risking it. I’m not letting That’s why he’s an MVP is because of those innings. No, that’s not true at all. He’s been If he didn’t have those innings, he probably would only just have like one, maybe two. Well, both two that he didn’t pitch during like absolutely. No, he he only like 2024 he would have had and then 2023 he probably still would have had. This is the real question. When does Liam Doyle pass Nolan Ryan in strikeouts? That’s insane to think about. Dakota Hudson over Otani. Whose card’s in 28? You’re my favorite now. I mean, look, look, Otani would have won this year’s MVP whether he pitched or not. The pitching didn’t matter at all. Yeah, I guess I guess he threw 47 innings this year. I don’t think that it would have been closer. It would have been a lot closer with Juan Sodto and and Schwarber. I mean, even the other years he pitched like he was good. It wouldn’t I don’t think it would have been close at all this year. He was the best hitter in the National League. He he won it fair and square this year as a DH. If I’m the Dodgers, he’s already an MVP as a DH. I’m not risking him on the mound. Have you seen his stuff? Yeah, it’s great stuff. But I’m not They They also have five other aces. They don’t need it. The The upgrade Otani to one of their other aces is not that massive. It’s not worth it. And they’re going to make the playoffs no matter what anyway. So maybe it’s just better to preserve Otani. Yeah. Use him as a three or four inning like shutdown guy in the playoffs. That’s probably more effective anyway. Swiss Army knife. I’m sure there’s some line in his contract that’s like if I’m healthy I’m pitching. There’s probably something like that in there. I can’t imagine. I mean there I mean with how much money he makes them like I don’t think they’re going to like do something where they force him not to do something if he’s healthy but I think they’ll strongly encourage it and I I I think at the very least they’ll they’ll load manage him. I think I think they figured something out like the the way they handled the rotation this past year. I think it’s something a lot of baseball I mean they well first of all baseball be hard to learn from because they have so many arms can’t learn from actually the Cardinals kind of did this year they would they would give guys a little bit of breaks or push back their starts like again I don’t think the the reason they didn’t have injuries is fully because of how they handled it but I don’t know I I it’s hard for me to predict what would do pitching because I also it’s it’s pitching too it’s like his elbow could give out literally any pitch you just never know and so that’s where it’s hard to be like oh he’s going to throw marines where it’s I don’t know. He could throw one pitch in camp and he’s done. So, and never pitch again. I would be I’d be surprised to see him hit 800 career innings even. Oh, there there’s 800 home runs. Oh, no. No. Yeah. I think I’d be surprised. I think I’d be surprised. I think How many innings does he have right now? He’s gonna stop pitching in the next like three years. Yeah. I mean, look, how many Andrew? He’s never pitched more than 140 innings or 166 innings in a year. He did that once. He’s only pitched more than the 32 innings once. Like, well, you said you’d be surprised if he if he pitched three three more full seasons like he did with the Angels, then he’s at 800. He only has to do that. I’d be surprised to see him get to 800 is what I’m saying. I’d be surprised if he repeats his 2021 and 2022 seasons in the next two years, then he’s done. Like, he’s done. Yeah. Well, there’s this not pitching 27, but um I think he’ll get I I I wouldn’t be I think he’ll get to 300. I wouldn’t I’d probably be surprised if he doesn’t hit 800. I think thousand’s the number where I’d be like I guess I’d be I definitely don’t think he’s getting to a thousand. But I just I just don’t see why they let him pitch. You’ve got a DH who’s going to be the potentially the best DH in the National League or or top two the best DH ever probably for the next Okay, no. Aaron Judge exists, but he’s going to be the best. Aaron Judge is not a DH. Okay, fine. When they’ve used him as a DH, but he’s going to be the best DH in the National League for the next 10 years. I wouldn’t touch him. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t let him touch the mound. I would just say you’re in my lineup every day. You’re gonna hit 50 home runs a year. You’re gonna have 1.05 every year. It’s gonna be amazing. That’s what I would do. I don’t think he’s I don’t think he’s had a pitching injury that’s kept him out of the batters box in his career. That’s true. But even still, even still, it’s just like why would you risk it? Why would you risk it for for 75 or 100 innings, which again, he’s only done three times in eight years. Why would you risk it when you’ve got all these other arms? All these other arms that you spent a ton of money on? Because that’s what he does. Yeah. I don’t know. I think ultim I mean ultimately you got to keep them healthy though. I think you got to load manage them like I mean they’re not going to not load manage it. Absolutely. All right. On the way out real quick. Uh let’s just give quick hitter thoughts and we’ve gone long so we’ll wrap it up. But uh Card 20 made me laugh too much in this one not to answer this. Real talk. You guys think Michael will sign with anyone? I’ll say yeah. I mean the Why not? I think so. You didn’t specify that it has to be in America. What do you think it’ll be for? Like My kids are gonna be so disappointed in me for not making a 67 joke. What? Six or seven million. I don’t know. He’s going to sign. He’s got to play somewhere. There’s no way he doesn’t. There’s too many teams that need it. I don’t know. I think Well, I saw someone on Twitter throw out the Rockies. That would be really fun. Maybe alltime record for home runs given up in a season. Um be so bad. Then Michael has a ring. Doesn’t he have a Japan series ring? Didn’t he He’s married. He’s got a ring. Yeah. But you could I mean I would like to see him go back to Asia. I heard Artfetti is an NPB free for agent target. Um so they could go play together in Japan. Well, like Miles Michaels absolutely could pitch for the White Socks or like any bad team that needs to cover innings. I I wouldn’t be surprised. Yeah. But like Yeah. Get ready to learn Korean again. KBO. He was in Japan. Freddy’s a KBO guy. I still think it was funny. Who? I don’t Has Cart Carts in 28. Have you been in our chat before? I feel like I don’t rec I feel like it’s been fun. I mean, our whole chat’s fun. I just I noticed a new name here where it’s like this has been good. But um so anyways, I do think even if he doesn’t sign before camp, I mean you always get those guys who randomly sign in like April, May or June to fill some spots, I think he’ll find a job. Could be KBO, could be MP. Dallas Kel got to pitch like two years ago. So Miles will find a job. I mean, he was bad, but like he’s like just to take innings, he he can do it. I mean, he said on foul territory that he wants to finish his career in Japan. So, well, eventually I think I think Miles sees himself having at least one or two more seasons here before he has to go back to Japan and finish his career. He might pitch till he’s 50, though. Okay, he’s gonna be healthy. He’s never hurt. Well, he was hurt at one point, remember? True. Yeah, that that was that’s wild to think about because he’s made basically every start the last three years when you’d like him to maybe miss a couple of starts. Also, uh, Cars 20 said he was Graham until he covered until I got my 2026 World Series. Didn’t didn’t Michael have um the most a couple years ago because he threw in a half and got tossed and then started again like a day later. Oh, yeah. And then they but they appealed the suspension. Yeah. So, he he got to pitch again because he he threw like four pitches. Yeah. And then, no joke, they could make Michael their third highest paid player by not paying him much at all. That’s how bad payroll is gonna be next year. Anyways, hey, this has been super fun. Good chat with you boys as always. Barry Bonds is a Hall of Famer. Wolf Curious at Hall. We love Brendon Donovan. I hope you keep him. Probably be a hall winter meetings next week. We’ll be on Sunday. That’s first day of the winter meeting. So, it might be some action. Otherwise, we’ll be kind of reacting to what’s going on. As always, really appreciate your support on the podcast. Remember, uh, go check out 304 sports cards, collectibles. Make sure you check out True North Gloves. Like and subscribe. It really helps channel a ton. We know many of you check in. You’re just you haven’t aren’t subscribed already, just checking out channel first time. Got a lot a lot of fun content coming this offseason as well as this charity stream with Brendan Donovan uh later this month. Birds on the farm with Kareem who’s been in the chat. Got some awesome episodes that all offseason. Just did a really fun video with Sandy. Um obviously Andrew always does the awesome editing on that stuff. But um on Brendan Donovan, Trade Destinations, lot of content coming out from Deal in the Card. So check us out. We appreciate your support as always. Like and subscribe. Rate and review on audio. We’ll see you next time. Thanks.

The 2025 MLB Winter Meetings are coming and there’s so many trade rumors surrounding the St. Louis Cardinals. Who will the Cardinals look to move this week, and with rumors that Willson Contreras is more open to waiving his no-trade clause, could we see him on the move soon? We break down the new rumors and if the Cardinals can stomach a lost season yet again in 2026.

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