Reviving The Pass Rush, Enforcing A Balanced Run Game & Unsung Heroes | Between The Horns

Reviving The Pass Rush, Enforcing A Balanced Run Game & Unsung Heroes | Between The Horns

All [Music] right, here we go with a new edition of Between the Horns. Always presented by your Southern California Toyota dealers with Maurice Jones, Drew and Demarco Farar. I’m JB Long. Good to be back. Good to see you guys again. Want to thank uh Kirsten Watson and Stu Jackson, Cameron Irwin, and everyone uh who filled in around this show around the holidays. Great to have them in, but I missed you. Good to see you, fellas. Yes, good to be back, man. Um, sorry it’s after an L week, but it is what it is. It’s football. It happens. Yeah. Teams got to get right. We got to get right. So, we’re back together. I love it. There you go. Yes. This This is like the best time of the year, actually. It is. It is. I You know, did we say this last week? I know it’s a it’s a coaching thing. Like, football doesn’t begin until after Thanksgiving. Go. Boy, ain’t that the truth. Here we go. Because it is what I mean, this is where you separate. This is where, you know, good teams go to great teams or or the other way. Good teams go the opposite way. This is where you have to be tough. If it gets cold, the weather changes. College is just about over. High school is just about over. This is the pros. This is the pay league. Um, this is why it’s so tough. And this is why you make so much money in this league. It’s tough from here. So, this is where football begins. I think this is where you you start to separate yourselves, too. Like, you know, the teams that are kind of bad, they kind of tend to fall off a little bit. The teams that are great, that want to be great, and they’re on a mission, they continue to get better each week, and you start to see the separation. There’s a lot of teams though. There’s a lot of parody in the league though right now which is it’s it’s like confusing, right? There’s so many like seven and six, six and six. It’s just so much going on, right? It’s just like and then this next month of the the season, you’re going to see teams that are six and six go to six and 10 or vice versa. And the teams that are up there, i.e. like the Rams, it’s time for you to start to separate and really put some some of your best football there on on tape. Missed a chance to separate on Sunday though. My goodness, that was after Thanksgiving. It was It was I think it was necessary though. You made that point right away. And I agreed with you in real time, but each day that goes by, I disagree. No, no, no, it was necessary. I think I I would rather you would rather stumble in late November than stumble in late December. And I and and the reason I say that is yes, that was a winnable game. Yes, that team, the Rams should have went. We saw all the Rams fans there which was awesome and it was it was it was just but it was just something we it just was weird. I we had told you about that stadium. It’s just a weird situation. I had I had flashbacks of when I played in the tsunami bowl. It was just it was just a weird time and they had a great game plan. They being the Carolina Pers had a great offensive game plan. Um they controlled the ball. They took majority of the third quarter up. Um and they executed. The Rams had an opportunity. Um fumbled it away and and that those happens. But what that does is it it forces you to to lock in and refocus on all the little things you did during that six game winning streak. It reminds you of how fast things can go away if you don’t play your best game week in and week out. Um you do you think this team needed that reminder though? Okay, I’ll say this now. This is just my own personal experience. This is going back to the embryo stage of the greatest show on turf. We lost a game in Detroit that we should not have lost. We lost to Charlie Batch, right? And we lost on like kind of like that. We we didn’t play that well. It was fluky at the end. They beat us. We did in that locker room decide to a man this will never happen again because it did remind you how fast things can go away. You could become a bad football team. Everything that we’ve been praising ourselves over could go away if we don’t play well. If we let these little mistakes kill us. So yeah, I mean I don’t think it was necessary so to speak, but it could be a blessing in disguise that it happened now. You know what I mean? That that that little moment that I don’t want to say loss of focus, but just when you let one get away, it happened. Now there’s your reminder. Let’s button it up for the rest of the year. I always tell people success success can be a bad thing too, right? It mask a lot of your issues. Um I thought, and this is not a negative thing, I thought Matthew Stafford took some chances. There was a pass play that wasn’t picked off that probably should have been uh in the red zone. He threw the ball to Puka Naku. He had a guy underneath and a guy over the top, the end zone. When he threw that, I was like, “Oh, that’s that’s a risky throw, right?” But you’ve made so you’ve made so many plays like that over the last six weeks. You’re like, “Oh, I can make this throw.” Right. And and those are things that kind of bring you back down to taking care of the football, focusing on on those type of things. I thought the pick, the tip pick or the the batted up pick. Yeah, that’s that those things happen. Um but I also started to see him become more aggressive as a quarterback towards that game. Right. That throw to to Puka Nua, he thought he could fit it in. That was a great play by the DB. we’ve seen him make that throw, but the DB is not as close as he was in that situation. And so those are things that um I think when you come back, it’s like, okay, I got to recalibrate. I got to get back to what we were doing beforehand. I don’t need to take as many chances. We don’t need to take as many chances in these situations. Defensively, I think you have to be more consistent with stopping the run. Um and tighter coverage on third down. We always talk about the loose coverage that the Rams like to play. um that team attacked that loose coverage. Third and four, you want to play seven yards off. Here goes a quick slant for six yards, first down, right? And so those are things that force you to go back and look at what you were doing during the last six weeks to say, “Okay, how can we critique this and what are the holes that we saw leading up to this that they took advantage of?” Self- scout. And then you just get ready to roll. And I think that, like I said, when you have a lot of success, it’s hard to be like this doesn’t work, right? Because you’re winning with it. Mhm. and then till it doesn’t. And I rather it happen in November, the last part of November, than to happen in the first week, the second week of January, you know, when you’ve had so much success. I got a lot of follow-ups on those perceived issues, whether or not they are issues moving in this final closing stretch. But first, how good do you have to be to turn it over three times in a loss on the last day of the month and still be named NFC offensive player of the month like Matthew Stafford? That tells you that tells you how good he was playing. You should like that’s what I’m saying. Like yeah, when you’re playing when you’re playing the way he was playing uh and I I still thought he made some great throws and I mean he’s playing lights out. He just had a couple mistakes. Um but that just tells you how good he was playing and that’s what happens. Like I always tell people I remember when I was uh I remember when I was playing and I was like player of the I felt awesome. felt like I could walk on water at times and I started doing things that were uncharacteristic like you know running a a gap play bouncing it outside because I’ve had success with it even though that wasn’t the right read I had success in it then I do it against let’s say the Houston Texans and I get crushed right is right there right so it’s just like those things remind you like okay let me get back in this a turns into a holding behind he’s still right there let me get let me get let me get back into this a gap and do exactly what I what I used to do and so that that’s all I’m saying is like it just reminds you of getting back into who you were when you were you’re, you know, being super successful. I think the MVP will be decided from this day forward, though, for all the consternation over who’s the favorite and how the odds have shifted. You win four of these five or all five of these games, Matthew’s going to be MVP, I think. Easy. I agree. 100. Yes, absolutely. That’s another thing. Well, I’m kind of glad that happened in Carolina because if it spurs on another great stretch, then so be it. It would be worth it. So, I always go searching for perspective, right, to help me get through a losing week, just to get Sunday here sooner. I think we all would have signed up for nine and three this August, right? Any would anyone not have signed that contract? Yes. And for for Matthew to be among the top two and MVP, we all would have said, “Okay, good things are going to happen.” Uh, since DeMarco retired as a Ram, nine and three starts or better for the for the Rams. Four of them. Wow. Wow. Really? Three under Shawn McVey, including this year. I’ve been retired a while now. Wow. I wasn’t trying to, you know, put you out there. Little sideways shot. I got you there. But I mean, uh, look, this team and this quarterback and this group, they have a chance to do something to be something special. This is what I mean about losing and why I guess I’m encouraged by it. It all depends on how they take the field on Sunday. Um, because they’re saying the right things. Even Coach McVey said it. Um, it might have been his longest postgame speech I’ve heard him say uh, in the locker room afterwards talking about this, how this is going to be a blessing in disguise. I can’t wait to get back to work. If they take the field and go out and prove it, good. Then it was all for the positive. But for right now, coming off a loss, it does hurt you as far as standings go. It’s a punishing loss, but it doesn’t have to end everything. I I I hope you get motivated. It could be the carrot they needed, like you said, to take it to a whole new level. And I agree with you, Mo. I mean, there are some things that you think you’re doing everything you can, and this is coaching everybody plan-wise. You think you’re doing everything that you need to do to win and until you’re proved, oh no, you have to do a little bit more. Look at just what happened. So, sometimes these things can help you. they can help point out where you didn’t know where you have some deficiencies. So, uh, and if you got away with a win, so be it. If you won with it, you still have to correct those deficiencies. But taking that L, your focus this week is going to be 100% fine-tuned on beating the Cardinals, which is where it should be. That’s why I think this could be a blessing in disguise. It takes away all distractions. It puts you right in line with your opponent where you should be in November. Anyway, you said the magic word, standings. It was it was the one topic he did not want to address this week. Come on. And I I think that’s great. Yeah. You know what I want to do on this show? Oh, but real quick, it reminds me of like the the Bill Bich on to Cincinnati. He did it. He used it. Yeah. I that that I mean that to me it’s that’s the right attitude. Yeah. That’s the like I said before this is the NFL. No matter what a team looks like, no matter what and I think you said it best. You could be six inches away from where you’re supposed to be and Rico Dat breaks through that run. Right. That’s is literally that’s the the it’s a game of vengeance. And so all these cliche things happened on Sunday. Now it’s time to tighten those things up and get I look at it from like a manual force perspective. I mean for the better part of a month we’ve been talking about how great he’s been playing and the improvement and this week he’s on the other side of that and sometimes the difference is did the opposing quarterback put the ball here or here because this is a pass breakup and this is a touchdown. And I mean, like, like I said, it’s it’s it’s so funny because and this is all over social media. A lot of the Rams fans are like, “Oh, we’ve been pray.” It’s it has nothing. He was in the same position he’s always been in on that touchdown at T-Mac. He was in the same position last week against uh I forget who it was where he batted the pass away that Baker threw or one of them threw to one of the receivers crossing. It was the exact same position. The ball placement was just different. Mhm. And so it’s again it you can’t you can’t ride that roller coaster. And I think that’s what kind of what I felt when I came in here today is this isn’t a roller coaster. Like look, we just got to get better. It was we learned from our mistakes. Let’s move forward. I I think that’s exactly it. And I think it’s what in this era the Rams have done as well or better than any other franchise in the league. Through 12 games, how many of them have been worthy of a win? I think they’re 12 for 12. Most of them. Yeah. If not all. There have been bad moments. There have been bad halves. But they’ve been in every game. Mhm. If they put five more of those out there. Maybe they’ll be the one. Maybe they’ll win the West. Maybe they won’t. But they’re going to be in the field. They’re going to be in the field. No doubt. But no more threeplay quarters on offense, though. You got to sew that up. And that that I mean that’s that’s an entire team thing. You got to stop somebody on defense, too. Uh sometimes on defense, like you said, and it gets down and dirty. And you said you had PTSD from playing in Carolina. Me, too. that reminded me of every single loss I ever had as a player in Carolina. Same environment, uh, same people in the crowd, same way they did it, just running the football. And it was just those little nagging things. It’s not like they’re better, it’s just they’re playing better than us right now, and we just can’t get a grip on it. So, uh, defensively, get a stop, offensively, stay on the field. So, these are things that help you progress towards becoming a playoff football team. So, um, nothing will reinforce coaching better than than losing. So I like you said if you had I guarantee you this week you got everybody’s attention. I get the run defense thing. I really do. But it’s been one of the most improved dimensions of any team in the league. So I don’t want to lose perspective on that. I also think the Rams had the Panthers right where they wanted them 15 times. The problem is they converted seven of those third downs and all three of the fourth downs. But I liked where they were sitting on that first third and eight and so they gave up a screen for a touchdown. Right. I mean, there weren’t a ton of explosive runs. This wasn’t Saquon and the Eagles out there. I think that’s the type of football you want opponents to have to play against you to beat you, but it was still it was still an option for them. And it was something that you had to respect. When you’re stuffing the run, you can almost they can’t run it. We know it. And you call the game differently. When you’re worried about the run constantly because you had to. They were chipping away at you. Completely opens everything else up. And if Puna can play more than 20 snaps, maybe that looks different. Shocked me. Yeah. And and if instead of that tipped interception and Nick Scott in the end zone, if you’re up two touchdowns there, then guess what goes away? Right. Of course, there’s a lot I think there’s a lot of things there and and I thought certain things in that game, the weather came into it, the the pick six and the tip pick allowed them to stay in that game longer than they should have been. And when you allow a team to stay in those games, they’re going to get they can have a game. They had a game plan that they wanted to run, but it was certain plays offensively that allowed them to stay in it. Like you said, if they’re up two touchdowns, you can’t just You can’t do that. You know what is becoming something that I don’t think we can ignore, though, is as vaunted as this pass rush was in the front half of this schedule and is by reputation, it has not played that way consistently on Sundays for a while now. Oh, they haven’t had the production. I’d say this. Um, so when you watch and these guys come off the rock, it’s not like they’re getting stalemated, thrown on their butts, held. They’re they’re winning. The ball’s just coming out fast to a man. They’re winning. They’re winning. Yeah. The ball’s just coming out fast because like you said, you hit the nail on the head when you’re given off coverage. Okay, you’re gonna give me that. I’ll take it. Now, what’s great? Let me see if your quarterback can complete that pass 10 out of 10 times without making a mistake. Bryce Young did. Bryce Young did, right? Okay. So, if the ball doesn’t come out, you you have to as a pass rusher get into pursuit early and then take them out of it by stopping the run, making them one-dimensional, getting into that quarterback’s head a little bit and into his cadence. And then you start to tee off on these offensive linemen and then the sacks start to fall. But when the ball comes out so quick and they’re completing passes, staying on the field on third down like you said, that negates a pass rush right there. That’s that’s it’s not like they’re not winning. It’s just you didn’t earn the right to rush the passer like you need to to get after. I don’t know. I think they had plenty of opportunity to rush the passer last week. I don’t know if it was that first screen and what it did to them in terms of their posture, but Oh, salute on that first that touchdown. Bryce was was way more comfortable than I would have expected. As often as he had to play from third and six or more. Yeah. But third and six he was throwing a seven yard slant. It was 1 2 three. The ball was out. And I and I and I will say this when he had to hold on to it longer and we talked about on the broadcast when he had to hold on it longer than two and a half seconds he was getting hit and and there people were there. And so again it’s third and eight I’m like okay here we go. Here goes a screen right? Third and six slants quick outs. They were everything was quick game on third down. It wasn’t until they got to fourth down. They went play action back or boot, right? So they were doing they were doing they understood that they weren’t going to and you watch the the way their O line the the Panthers O line’s built. They’re built to run the football, not to go backwards. And so you were getting those ops, but they were calling quick game on third down third. Like anytime someone runs a seven, like a slant on third and six, they’re telling you true this ball has to come out today. Now, I will say this. Uh, discipline has to be better on the edges. Uh, there are sometimes you get blind dog meat house. You know, there’s the there’s the play action and you’re way down here and there’s a quarterback over here. So, that’s something you’re going to have to work on again. But, like I said, you’re getting there. You have to resist the the the frustration that comes along with offenses dumping the ball fast. It is frustrating as a pass rusher. I’m wasting my rush moves. By the time I get into my moves, I’m into pursuit over and over and over again. and that just starts to wear you down and wear you out. I am loving the way that a healthy Braden Fisk is playing and I think that’s a reason for optimism uh going into this week. Um but you’re going to have to get Jacobe Brassette off his spot because when he’s comfortable he is a problem right now. Yeah. What he had 47 completions in one game like putting up video game numbers. Okay. Slap me if I’m crazy. Not really. Um he reminds me of an a Warren Moon towards the end. I’d have to go look at that. He really does. I I I could agree with that. Does that make sense? In what ways? In where he’s not going to run away from you, but he’s a pretty good athlete. He knows where to step. He knows how to play. When pockets are dirty, he can step to that nice spot, that little dead spot, and get the ball out. And he’s got some great pass catchers. He is activating his eligibles better than his predecessor. Yeah. I mean, he he can throw guys open. He can play the quarterback from the pocket better than we’ve seen anybody play in Arizona in in a lot of years. And you know what I mean by that. Uh so but the thing is I don’t think they can protect him for that long so he can be effective to beat you for four quarters. He gives up a lot of sacks. He has he’s thrown for a lot of yards and he’s done great. But the one thing that has happened is there’s been a lot of pressure on him and this is a young front that could get after him. So if you stop the run again, I know this sounds like a broken record and force them to throw I think you can get to Brassette and I don’t think he can run away from you like Bryce Young did. I don’t see I don’t think it’s a broken record. That’s what’s going to be for the next how many ever weeks the Rams play is stop the run, force him to throw the football defensively. I would say I agree with you. I think that Jacobe Purset has played so much football and has been in so many systems that he knows coverages and what things look like, so he knows where he wants to go with the football. The problem is a lot of these passes he’s throwing are 15, 20 yards down the field, so he has to hold on to it, which plays in the Rams favor on on certain situations. If you can stop the run and force these guys to get downfield, play a little tighter coverage, make sure that they’re have they have to go down the field, you’ll get those sacks that you’re looking for and those pressures that you want. Um, again, I just I just think a lot of teams you’re they’re game planning for said pressure, right? And and I go back to Carolina. When you’re taking a one step drop out of shotgun on third and six, you’re that’s that’s all because of the guys in front of you. That has nothing to do with it’s like, oh, they’re playing off coverage here. here we’re going to run what we I don’t know what they teams call it now but dragon which is like drag slant here we go ball out quick right and so those are the things I don’t when I watch Arizona they don’t run that type of game that’s not their game is like quick game stuff like that they want to get 12 15 yard chunks down the field they like to throw curls so you’re more of a three-step drop out of gun which gives your pass rush an opportunity to get to the quarterback especially if the coverage is there and so um I could see this game matching up but it only matches up if you if you shut down that run early cuz the Cardinals passing game doesn’t seem like the quick game that we saw. Now, let me say this before I we go anywhere else. I don’t want people to jump on me. The Cardinals or the Panthers path came to look like this either the first couple of weeks before uh they played. So, don’t try and figure out what the Carolina Panthers are. Like, that’s a fool’s errand. Oh my god. They’re very confusing. They make them on the wrong day. Well, no. I think it’s it’s very similar what they did to the Packers when they went to Green Bay. But they can also lose to New Orleans is what I’m saying. Oh, no. No question. And probably will. Yeah, right. Um, quick question about Arizona before I forget. Who takes the first snap of 2026 for the Arizona Cardinals, Kyler Murray or anyone else walking the planet? Who’s the coach? Both. Uh, anyone else walking the planet? You think it’s over? I do. It’s too much money for it to be over, man. Who’s Who’s going to take that contract on? I I don’t I don’t know. But the one thing I You’re saying though, if they change coaches, then it doesn’t matter because that coach isn’t signing up. Exactly. But if it’s Ganon, then We’re locked at the hip. Let’s go. You might be back to him. But I I do see a lot more Marvin Harrison. You can’t help but see Trey McBride. Uh but with a standard pocket passer, uh they seem to get a whole lot better at receiver and going down the field with Brassette in there. So, I mean, whoever makes decisions there, that’s got to stand out. But I’ll tell you this. Here’s the other side of it. Kyler Murray wouldn’t take that many sacks. So, there’s the other side. and he probably gets out of that that sack that Brousette just ran himself into. So, and they’re still losing a ton of games, but the way they’re losing is I mean 0 and seven in games decided by four points or fewer. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anything like that. I think the Chiefs are right there in that situation right now. They’re playing the wrong season in the wrong division. That’s that’s what Arizona’s doing. I think every one of their losses they could have won the game and that’s that’s sad. That’s maddening. Yeah. Yeah. Been there. But it’s a wakeup call for a team that’s coming off one of those losses and going to Arizona and has to play the Cardinals twice in these final five weeks. No doubt. Yes, sir. What about that guy Kas Campbell? Is he still playing? You know, Kas, he he does such a good job of picking when he and choosing when he wants to rush, right? How dare you? And but I’m not but it’s not a negative thing. It’s a smart thing. Like I’m not going to waste these rushes. Are you kidding me? Now, we get into a where I think you’re going to hold the ball. I’m going to give you all I got. But he’s he’s smart. He’s a vet. He’s going to lean on you. He’s going to do all this stuff. He’s going to play. He’s gonna run the games. And then when he gets a chance to rush, when the opportunity fits, that’s when he’s going to rush. And you look at you look at the tape. Like when he wants to rush, he’ll get back there. But most of the time, he’s running games or he’s like kind of doing what Derrick Brown did early on, waiting to see to bat the ball down and then eventually he’ll rush. And that and that that’s that’s the only hard part about the game within the game which we saw last week is when Derek Brown rushed he got a sack fumble like it’s just like like so it’s like which one do you want? Well coming off a game where you threw a or you had a pick that bounced off somebody and then you go to a guy that’s even bigger and this is what he does. Um I do worry about his football IQ because just like Matthew Stafford who’s seen more football than Kus Campbell, you know what I mean? Everybody schemes. He gets into your line calls. So, he may not be able to dominate physically, but his knowledge can. Watch out for this. He’s going to this. This is what this check means. And plus, like you said, when he does turn it on, he’s one of the few bigs, what I mean by bigs, the tall guys that actually uses his size. Oh my god. You know what I mean? Like when he gets that forward body lane and gets you away from him, he can walk you right back to the quarterback. May not get a sack, but it’s hard to throw when your guard is sitting in your lap. You know what I mean? Or your tackle is. So, um, so much of a leader. And Buddha Baker’s out there. We still haven’t figured out how to put a cap on Buddha Baker. No one has. I feel like he just does. I I feel like he’s more of like a Troy Palamalo where he sees something, he just takes a shot. Yes. Sometimes. And he hits. He’s probably 85% say production equal tolerance. You keep making plays, do what you want. It feels like there’s three of him out there whenever we play the Cardinals. You really clone him? How come he’s playing? Why is he on the line of scrimmage there in cover through and there’s no deep safety and he’s making a sack like that made a play 90 yards down that and you started on the line of scrimmage. Unbelievable. Yes. I know what I wanted to ask you Maurice Demar get on this too but the roller coaster that I have ridden with our fan base over the last few weeks with respect to the running game. Here’s like a small a sample size. We went from Kairen can’t secure it. Go to Blake to then Kairen’s on a heater. Why are they playing Blake? to now they’re both ripping off chunk plays, but they’re doing it in different ways. So, the other thing I I’ll set you up on is I remember when he was drafted. I was guilty of saying other people were too. Oh, the Rams have a type. They’ve got Kairen 2.0, but the way they’re running them now, they don’t look anything alike. They have a type. They for sure have a type. It’s a physical type, but their running style completely different. And I and I think the Rams um you’re seeing some similar runs where they’ll both run outside zone, they’ll both run duo inside, but you’ll see some runs that Blake will only run. Right. And I and I think he really jumped out on the scene against Carolina with that to me was that big run where he ran down the middle then broke out right. Um and Whittington planted. Yeah, exactly. He had to run through the smoke, right? broke through an arm tackle, shook the safety, went out right, and then you saw the burst, right? And so to me, getting those two guys going with Kairen’s ability to maneuver in short space, which we saw again in Carolina, making people miss in the hole, getting skinny, doing those things, having both of those guys go, and we saw the way they were able to run from what, the eight yard line, the six yardd line, all the way down. I don’t know if they scored, I don’t remember if they scored a touchdown or not on that drive. Uh, but to run all the way down and do that. Um, yeah, that was the start of the fourth quarter. Yeah. Yeah, that was a touchdown. Yeah. So, to me, that is uh that’s scary for defenses, right? Because now I have a two-headed monster that can go again. It reminds me when I was with Fred Taylor, very si we ran the same plays, we had different running styles, and those run plays may called the same for me, but they’re going to my running style is going to make it look different. Totally different. And that’s the same with Blake and Kairen. They’re they’re getting called the same plays, but their running style just makes it look completely different. Their vision is different. Um like watching Blake Corm run. This is so funny. You guys ever caught a fast ball bare-handed when it’s cold outside? That’s what it looks like when he’s running. This is the last guy you want to be in front of. He he runs for pain. And when you think about later in the year, what’s the one thing you are definitely not doing probably all throughout the NFL? You’re not tackling anybody in practice, right? And then you got to tackle this guy on Sunday going 1,000 miles an hour when the weather is cold. Um he’ll make you think twice. But I think his toughness around the goal line and then Kairen Williams is invaluable to this offense, man, because it’s more than just carrying the football. His pass protection is top-notch. And his running by the goal line, too, is crazy. And what’s the number one thing on this football team? Protect nine. Absolutely. Who does pick up on that Xavier Smith career-long pass? Yeah. Even Even on the overload blitz, didn’t he get one of the two? He picked He picked the Yeah. Yeah. So, I think the job for Stafford, this coaching staff, and those two guys is you got to feed them both because they’re so important. And I think you’re doing a good job striking a good balance. Yeah. Because both guys are getting the chance to do what they do best. Well, I almost jumped in there because I think a percentage of our audience was upset that McVey and the Rams didn’t lean more into their running game. But I think when you’re getting more than seven yards per play and you only run into five third downs the whole day, I don’t know what issue you can take with the game plan of the play calling. Yeah. I I I think again it’s just it was a weird game. And I think I mean you were carving them up. Yeah. And you you throw two picks, one of which was bizarre, and the strip sack comes after your only penalty of the day on what probably should not have been a delay, but there you have it. It wasn’t the play calling to me. And what I and this is what I I’ll say this too as as someone who split the backfield I love this series for series because Kairen gets the first series, Blake gets the second one. Did you love it when you were splitting it? I I didn’t. But now as a as an older person, as a more mature Maurice, I love it because what I remember I remember vividly if Fred would break off a run and get tired, I would come in, right, and give him a two or three play blow and then he’d he’d come back in and do his thing. And so and then vice versa on the other side. And when you have two guys that get you can run your way into the playoffs. And then again, if you look at all the teams over the last couple years that have went to the Super Bowl, they had great like even Kansas City last year had a strong running game that helped them get there. Obviously Philly last year, right? And so you want that when the Rams went in 2018, what do they have? Two running backs that could tote the rock, ran them through the playoffs, right? And that’s what you want. And so it sets up the play action pass. It sets up all the things. And the other part it does, what does it do for the defense when you can run the football? You you get to rest and and get ready. Absolutely. You control the game. That’s what’s crazy about their Super Bowl run is they were not two-dimensional. They had one way to beat you and it was a really really good way and they got there in some special moments. But I think what they have now that I appreciate even coming off a loss is margin for error because they can beat you in lots of different ways. The defense can win you a game. The running game can win you a game. Clearly your quarterback and your passing game can win you lots of games. Now, when that margin for error is dried up by turnovers and take by an inability to get off the grass on defense and three giveaways, it goes sideways on you. But let’s hope that’s the last time we have to see a game like that. With the game in your hands, it wasn’t like it was Be honest, when when when Fred Taylor’s out there ripping, you’re not really like mad. You’re just kind of jealous. Oh, I’m like, “Yo, let me get some of this. It’s sweet out here. They’re sweet. I got to get some.” I’ll I’ll tell you. We were playing in Denver and I know this is off. We were playing in Denver and I remember uh Fred he had got hit um and they thought he had a concussion so he went out and when he went out your boy started going crazy right I looked to the side and my dog was back on the side doing high knees. I was like oh he was like is it good? I was like oh yeah come get you some. Yeah. Come get some of this. Like come get you some. He’s like oh it is like get out. I got to give you some. Like that’s what it’s like. Like don’t leave the sideline. Yes. Yeah. Like Yeah. I’m sure they’re both loving their circumstances right now because the way this passing offense is going, you’re getting favorable box counts and then look at the way the offensive line, the tight ends, even the receivers are competing on that blocking surface. Like there’s a reason why they’re grading out so well in the running game. Uh remember, it was a couple weeks ago with Kobe Parkinson taking over as the inline tight end. he has accepted that role, rooting guys out, being the point of attack guy and smart um knowing when to let go, so to speak, you know what I mean, and not draw the holding call. He’s gotten so much better and then he’s still a threat. Tight ends, everybody up front, getting the right guy for the most part has been great. And the vision by the backs has been awesome. So, I agree with you 100%. You were absolutely pounding the daylights. You have nothing to be ashamed of. The only thing you need to clean up is takeaways. If you cleaned up the takeaways, you win that game in a walk. And the whole situation is different. And it’s all based on running the football and the guys blocking. Takeways count like a fourth down stop counts as a takeway. Yeah, I have to give you credit. You talked about Kobe Park coming from Seattle, how he was graded as one of the top run blockers. I was like, ah, he’s more of a receiving threat from Stanford. That’s kind of what I saw him as. But you’re right, he’s accepted that role and you really seen him take on that edge and and he’s not allowing penetration, which is the most important thing. He’s keeping the line of the the line of scrimmage flat so the running back can make moves. Great job. And that’s what you’re looking for. Obviously, that was Tyler Higgy’s thing, but he’s really, like you said, I think he’s accepted that role. And it really he’s it’s I want to say shocked me, but I’m excited that he’s accepted that role and he’s doing a much better job than he did last year for sure. Speaking of tight ends, you know what got overlooked because Puka had such an outrageous catch. The one that Terg almost had at the sideline, man. No, he caught it. It was just out of bounds. That’s what I mean. Yeah, he caught it. He made sure to let you know I caught it. I still think he sets the Rams ceiling this year or he elevates the ceiling. The ceiling’s already way up in the attic, but I think he can take it to that next level. What I what I love seeing from him is when he they’re in that 13 personnel and he’s at wide receiver, right? Mhm. Right. Was that like 65, 66 standing out there like that? That’s a tight end that someone a corner is going to have to have to eventually cover down the field. You know what else is scary? Arizona does that and they have McBride. Yeah, he is. That that’s that’s pretty scary. He’s a problem. Uh what was the uh the word used standings, I think, right? Another way of saying it is one the topic that shall not be mentioned outside of this studio in this facility. He’s talking Cardinals. I want to talk about it. Let’s talk about it. You know, I love this. So, here’s one way to jump into this. I I’m going to give you the contenders and their remaining schedule, and I want you to tell me how many wins they finish with because that’ll dictate how many these final five the Rams have to win. But, let me open the conversation this way. Who should the Rams be rooting for between the Bears and the Packers this week? Oh, the Packers. Root for the Packers. Root for the Packers. Knock the Bears off. Off the number one. Off the number one. I I know I know people I I’m I’m a live the now guy. I don’t care about the future. Let us get back to number one. Knock the number. I want I want to control I want to control everything. I don’t want I don’t want So, you’re saying we only need one favor? Yeah. Just go ahead and do that. The sooner you can get it, get it. Yeah. I don’t like that. And then the reason I say that is when we can control things, I’m a control. Yeah. Let me let me drive. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. U but the Bears are nine and three. Here’s their remaining schedule. Okay. So from nine wins, how many they finish with at Green Bay? Home and home against Green Bay. Tough. Green Bay, Cleveland, Green Bay at San Francisco. Tough. Home against the Lions. How many of those final five do they win? Not dead yet. Who knows? Green Bay, Cleveland, Green Bay at San Francisco, Detroit. Tough three. I say they get three of those. You think they get three? Okay, I’ll take the under on three. Really? You think they get two? What’s wild about where we are is the Bears could be the one seed and I would not be surprised or they could tumble all the way out of the picture and I would not be surprised. That I agree with cuz I’m still not sure. I mean, but I’ll put you down for 12. You think 12? I think they go 12. I this is they they’re running the football at a rate and and as much as you know this is going to hurt me. I’ll take 12. Jonah Jackson is doing I was afraid you were going to mention that. Oh my god. And again Johnson he wasn’t healthy here. But oh my god. Yeah. Like what they’re doing there is crazy. Uh let me go to the let me go to the Packers next just because we’re talking about them. So Chicago twice. They also go at Denver, home to Baltimore, at Minnesota. Packers are 83 and one. Of those five, how many do they win? Chicago twice at Denver, Baltimore, and at Minnesota. Denver’s tough. Minnesota, I say they depends on they’re going to split. They’re going to split with Chicago. Okay. They’re going to lose to Denver. It’s at Denver, right? At Denver. At Denver, they’re going to So Baltimore and Minnesota, you’re at nine. They beat Minnesota. Okay. That’s 10. And then Baltimore’s depends on what Lamar you get. I’m gonna put him down for 11. There you go. 11. Okay. Uh Eagles, uh Monday Night Football at Sofi against the Chargers. Oh, that’s a dub, which is crazy cuz this guy’s not going to play. Really? He’s not going to play Las Vegas. Okay. Two games against Washington division games and at Buffalo. So, they’re going to win four of those. Yes. That puts them at 12 and five. 12 and five. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, there’s another 12- win team. I like that. I’m sure this is great YouTube television, but uh they’re doing the same thing. If you made it this far, we’re almost done. No, Seattle. Here’s another fun one. Change the look on my face. Seattle at Atlanta. It’s kind of a no bad outcomes here from the Rams, but can we agree it’s time to table April of 2026 and focus on the here and now? Nope. Yes, you can. You need this. This is the one time I’m rooting for Seattle cuz then only reason is cuz I want to get like a top five pick. I’m rooting for Atlanta. Come on. I want a top five pick. You’re on your You’re on an island over there. I’ll take it. Come on Atlanta. You already got a good pick. It’s already going to be good. My top my umbrella. What happened? What happened to Mr. Control over there? That’s why I said that’s why I I control the top five. You meant control of the season. Yeah, I do. Cuz we get to play them. I get a chance to control it. I see. I I thought he would find that loophole. Anyways, at Atlanta, home to Indie. Who knows? Indie. Indie. Indie could be the one. Okay. Thursday Night Football against the Rams at Carolina at San Francisco to finish. Nine- win team. Falcons, Colts, Rams, Panthers, Niners. I can see them winning two of two two games. So, you think they’re an 11- win team? I think they’re 11- win team. So, you really aren’t worried about the Seahawks? It’s hard to win in Seattle. Okay. I was going to say 12. 11.5. Yeah. Okay. Let’s say whatever. Give him 12. Give him 12. Yeah. And then the last one before we talk about the Rams, the team that’s sitting on their couch with their feet up getting healthy this week. Nothing to do. The Niners have nine wins. They’re on a buy. Here’s how they finish. Titans at home. Win 10 at Indie. It depends. Okay. Home to Chicago. home to Seattle. See, I’ll I’ll say 0 and2 in that. I I’ll believe in Chicago. And who was the other team? And at Indie at So, they’re I think they’re going to lose to Indie and they’re going to lose to Seattle. Seattle. Yes. So, you’ve got them as an 11 win. Yeah. As an 11 and 11 and six cuz who you said who else they have? They they they’re at home this home to the Titans. That’s 10. At Indie, you had as a loss. Yep. Home to Chicago. Yep. They’ll win that one. That’s 11. home to Seattle and they’ll lose to Seattle. Warner and Bosa are still out and they’re not coming back. Offensively, I think they’ve done a great job staying alive. They’ve massed some things. Stay alive. The way that we just loosely map that out, you got a couple of 11 win teams and at least three 12- win teams. So, the Rams got to get to 13. That but what I what I believe is you you have control of some of these things, right? You have to win. You obviously have to win your games, but going to Seattle, winning, sweeping Seattle is going to be huge on a Thursday night. I think Detroit’s kind of a that’s a wonky game. Um because you just don’t know how Detroit’s going to show up. Are they going to be the Giants Detroit? That’s what’s weird about the Rams schedule is on paper they have the best path, the easiest schedule. That’s why they’re still the favorite to be the one seed is because you just step back and you don’t take any of these factors into the equation. There’s like two games against the Cardinals who are already eliminated. A road game against Atlanta probably will be eliminated by that point. And then you got two big ones. One’s at home against Detroit. Who knows what shape they’ll be in. And then the rematch with Seattle and they’re comparing schedules like we just did and they’re saying the Rams will get it done in the end. I I believe it. I But I like the control of we have to play Seattle. That’s what I like. That’s the That’s what we can control that, right? Like now Chicago have no control over what Chicago does. So, I need you to get out of the way quickly. Um, and shout out to my dog, Eric Benemy. I hate to do that. Here’s how I pose it to DeMarco. This is the last thing I’ll say. I’ll let it go after this. And by the way, we’re going to burn this tape. Arizona after it airs. If you had to go on the road in the NFC playoffs, would you rather go to Soldier Field and face Caleb or go to Lambo and face Love and Micah Parsons and the Packers? Yeah, go ahead and give me uh Soldierfield. So that’s that’s where I’m saying my original question is who are you rooting for this week and in two weeks or three weeks when they rematch? I’d rather have everybody come to LA. I don’t want to go anywhere actually. Let’s start by beating the Cardinals. This wasn’t a right. This wasn’t a choose your own adventure test. If it would rather be we know what Green Bay’s like. We know what Green Bay’s like in the cold. That’s not something that I would want to do. Here’s a toast to Maurice and the Rams maintaining control. Yes, sir. way back to the beautiful city of LA. In disguise. Yes. Blessing in disguise. We’ll see if that holds. Yes. Did I cut you off? Any final thoughts before I send this away? No. Uh just, you know, some guys on offense. Uh we talked we didn’t talk about Xmith who who has uh shown up big time coming back off getting knocked out and then coming back big and not just being a returner, being a guy that contributes. That felt like a preamble to the 22 issue. Do you want to go there? You know, I I was surprised. Um, I thought 22 was going to be back for Carolina and then you you’d have to think those plays that went to X would probably go to 22. If that was 22, one of those hits the box. That’s just how I feel about his ability. So, I was surprised that’s not being deployed. And one more thing about Emanuel Forbes, let me make this point and I’m not sure cuz I don’t know and we’re still learning about him. I hope he’s not playing looking over his shoulder because that was the same week that Aello Witherspoon came back and also Dariion Kendrick was in the building. So, I hope you’re not thinking like, “Oh my goodness.” And people tend to stiff up when there’s new people around. I hope not. I hope that’s not the case. It It is what it is. Give all credit to Carolina, but I hope that’s not an issue. I hope chemistry was not I hope chemistry didn’t affect his confidence because he was playing like gang busters and I still think that guy’s there. Two things I will say about Emanuel Forbes. One, I like him better with off coverage than I do press. That’s how he gave up both of those touchdowns playing press, man. Um, I think he’s better with his eyes looking in and being able to see and then he can make plays on it once you get to him. Um, I think if he’s at the line of scrimmage, he’s such a longer guy. He doesn’t have the quick twitch as some of the other guys. I think that’s how Coker got on on top of him on the fade ball. Um, and then the other play was literally it was just like a foot race from one side of the field to the other and you’re trying to be in trail position and it was a great throw. So that those those don’t bother me. Quick follow up on that. Yes. Do you want to finish that? No, go ahead. Earlier in the show, you said that the Rams pass rush isn’t getting home because of the quick passing game. Right. Right. And so, you got to alter your coverage, tighten up a little bit to take that away. So, there’s a tension there between, hey, we’ve got a corner that we prefer in off coverage. We don’t want him in press man versus we don’t want to give up those and be frustrated. You have to work through it. That’s that’s the game, right? That that’s that’s the game within the game. How do you Do we move him to four yards in playoff? Do we move him to five? like or do you keep him at seven and or do you put them at press? Right. And so that’s the game. Um and then I will say I I the unsung heroes have to show up down this stretch. Who’s on that list for you? Um tight end Davis Davis Allen that needs to I need to see him get back in the box right in the red zone. Um I think Blake Cororm has to continue to go. That’s the unsung hero to me. And then I think Jordan Winningington needs to start playing more. And I think and the reason I say that is it’s either him or 22 Atwell. Um is that that’s a different type of burst than the other guys. Can I just can I just hit the two two thing real quick? This is a different team and offense than the one that he was signed to and the one that he started the year with. Like, who would have thought that we’d be sitting here post Thanksgiving talking about the Rams rostering four tight ends, including one that they just picked up off the street last week, and leaning into 12 and 13 personnel identity. Like, that’s not the schematic for which the Rams signed Atwell for the season. So, the game has changed in that regard. And on top of that, he doesn’t have a role on teams. Xmith and others do. and you are carrying a bunch of defensive backs right now for good reason I think as you try and solve for that puzzle in the back half of the schedule. That’s right. I would still have him on as that speed plays. But that’s why I said Jordan Winningington, he he has not the same burst, but he has a burst different than the other guys you have out there. But are you going to give him Whittington’s helmet? No, no, no. It’s hard. I know. It’s It’s a shame that you can’t use that ability. Unfortunately, these problems resolve themselves on a week-by-eek basis. And so, there will come a time when there will be a helmet available for Tutu. I believe that. I just And when he gets it, he’ll be five yards, eight yards of separation on a comeback. Yes, that’s how it’ll be. But I just think those guys have to show up and it brings me back to last year in the divisional round against Philly where he comes on the field, runs a 20-yard comeback, is by himself, catches the ball, gets out of bounds, goes out, and then someone else comes in. Like that those type of plays are going to have to start to show up here very quickly. As good as the offense is going, that’s going to be th those those guys that I named, Davis Allen and the in the red tight red area, I think he’s going to have to show up again like he’s done. Um, I think some of the catches that he’s made have been awesome, but I also believe like Blake Corm is going to need to show up down the stretch and either you pick whichever third receiver you want out of Xavier Smith, uh, Jordan Winningington or 22 Atwell Mfield. Mfield as well. Like someone is going to have to emerge as a guy that we can consistently counter. We just went the whole show and didn’t say Dvonte or Puka because well, you know those two are going to do their thing. Like that’s you know that they’re going to do their thing, but someone else is going to have to show up eventually down this stretch. All right, let’s break there and let’s hope the next time we do this it’s on a winning note. The Rams and the Cardinals twice in five weeks down the stretch for Maurice Jones Drew and DeMarco Far. I’m JB Long. Thank you for joining us for another edition of Between the Horns presented by your Southern California Toyota dealers. [Music]

J.B. Long, D’Marco Farr, and Maurice Jones-Drew sit down for an episode of Between The Horns to discuss the Los Angeles Rams’ pass-rush efficiency throughout the season and the balance in the run game between running backs Kyren Williams and Blake Corum. The trio also highlight key players who have delivered standout performances so far this season.

0:00 Intro
0:40 Week 13 recap
5:43 Matthew Stafford named Offensive Player of the Month
7:34 Staying focused
10:57 Win worthy games this season
12:04 Defense analysis
16:18 Game-planning Jacoby Brissett
19:41 2026 Cardinals starting QB
21:07 Game-planning Calais Campbell
22:50 Game-planning Budda Baker
23:28 Running game efficiency
30:52 Terrance Ferguson’s development
31:38 NFL Standings
39:30 Final thoughts

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