Wan’Dale Robinson’s Future + Giants Mailbag | 102

Wan’Dale Robinson’s Future + Giants Mailbag | 102

Welcome to Giants Nation. I’m your host, Bobby Skinner, here with my co-host, the football Grump. And I hope you had a good bye weekend. Uh, we’re recording this on Thursday, but it’s coming out on Monday. Grump, how you doing? How you feeling? How you doing? How you feeling? Doing good. Feeling good. Doing good. Feeling good. Um, I I’m finally getting over my cold and in about a week I will be boarding a flight back to New Jersey and I will probably get sick again. Don’t get sick cuz I’m going to be around you, you know. Yeah, I’m going to cough a lot. Boogers, everything. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, I I’m excited for that, you know. I guess we need to talk like it’s Monday because it is going to be Monday and people are listening to this. But hey, yeah, we’re going to it’s going to be a crazy week. So, I’m going to see you Thursday. We’re going to we’re going to record a preview podcast. We’re going to have, you know, a podcast at the stadium on Sunday if all goes well enough. Well, at least going to try to. Uh and then what’s uh we’re doing the Jordan on uh Breaking Big Blue event, which Grump will be at at Shannon Rose in Clifton, New Jersey on Monday, Monday evening. So, make sure you’re out there. Quick, actually, you know, I was going to ask about the Fire Joe Shane video, what your thoughts were on it. Obviously, it’s not as it’s not going to get as much buzz as last year because last year a lot of pe people didn’t want to fire Joe Shane where now it’s almost exclusively people do and it doesn’t get the second win from the Giants calling me and complaining about it that it got last year. But what I mean what were your overall thoughts on it before we get to the Joe Shane presser in this? Um well it was just like last year’s video. It was wellressearched, articulate, calm, and just presented like a presentation that you would do for work or for school or for anything else. Like this was, you know, not like flying off the handle lunatic stuff or or, you know, exaggerating things beyond their proportion. And I think it was fair. I mean, you you definitely gave credit where it was due. I think at some points there’s there’s credit you handed out that I think a lot of people don’t want to give credit for. Um, and I think you hit on all the points. It’s pretty well-rounded. And I think that’s what makes it compelling, right? Because it’s hard to argue with somebody who’s got all bases covered and gives credit where it’s due because it really presents a balanced debate as if you’ve got both sides of it covered. Uh, for the other side, I don’t really think you left any stone unturned. There’s not really much else that can be said that wasn’t in the video. And overall, I think anybody I mean, you leave it up for everybody to decide, but I think it presents a very unbalanced scale at the end. Yeah, it’s it’s I’m pretty heavily been heav heavily on the Fire Joe Shane train, you know, since last year when I made that video. Um, but I like I do take that serious. I don’t like, you know, I know it’s we’re just a podcast, but like I I am I try to be patient, right? Like, so I’m not going to say to fire anybody until I truly believe like, nope, you’re you’re just not the right person for the job, right? Like Jason Garrett was probably the quickest trigger I ever had where I’m like, yeah, this this is someone who needs to be fired. Um, but you know, I I try to wait and give that person as much grace until I’m just like, you know what, I I don’t think this is the right uh thing for uh for the New York Giants. Uh and I hope to get to a point where we don’t have to do that because it’s it’s kind of tiring talking about firing people. Uh, but I but I I did I did think it was a a fair and balanced video. Like like you said, I I want to give him credit for things that as much as I would love to play into the whole like ah he didn’t even want Jackson Dart like you know what the guy traded up and drafted Jackson Dart. He gets and it was a good trade too. Like it’s very very wellnavigated situation that he Yeah, absolutely. So like you know I’m not going to take that away from him even though I think there is a good chance he would have been happy taking Shador Sanders. Um, so let’s get into this mailbag. First, this episode was brought to you by some special people. We got Frank William. Not Frank Williams. It’s just Frank William. William Frank. You should flip your name around. It’ be Bill Frank or Frank Bill. Greg, just regular old Greg. Hope your dad is doing well, Greg. You know, he almost played quarterback back in 2021. Tim Frraasier. Down goes Tim Frraasier. Just Scott, you know, uh, Francis Scott Keys and then Leo Prince. Prince Leo Grump. Who are these special people? These people with mostly just blank first just first names and no last names. They went to patreon.com/giantsnation and signed up for one of the two tiers available where they get to receive stickers in the mail from you, Bobby Skinner. They also get to enter into a monthly free t-shirt raffle. They get access to hang out during live recordings of episodes just like this one. And most importantly, they get access to weekly game tape breakdowns that you do. They were glad that they did. Glad you did. Uh, take it away, Steve. Mail time. The mail’s here. Come on. Bye, guys. Here’s the mail. It fails. It makes me want to wag my tail. When it comes, I want to whale. Thanks Steve from Blues Clues Grump. Let’s get into the mail. Let’s get into the mail here. First question comes from Ghost in BK. Go Ghost and Bankruptcy. Oh gosh. Uh this is a multi-parter because it’s a season of giving. If you could have asked Joe Shane any any one question at his press conference, what would it have been? Did your opinion slashperception of Shane’s job security change at all post press conference? And do you understand the question? I do understand the question. Uh we don’t need to rehash the whole press conference, but I do think it’s worth us talking about on the podcast. Um he he seemed really nervous. Uh but I’ll say this, there was he was never going to come out of that press conference as a win. never I actually think he did a fairly decent enough job of damage control as much as he could even though there’s not much that he could do. Um you know he deflected to not good enough to you know uh five wins over the last two years. Uh the really the only thing that I thought that was just like all right give me a break is saying you know I’m I’m never going to make the same mistake twice. I’m like, “Dude, that’s like one of your that’s what that’s like your defining trait of why I don’t like you as a GM is because you do make the same mistake twice and thrice and and and twice and, you know, DSC at, you know, all that stuff.” Uh, 17. Yeah, it’s she’s kind of made the Jaylen mistake 17 different times if if you think about it. Uh, so that was the only thing I’m like, well, that’s just a joke. you’ve, you know, you patched things up one thing at a time while making the same mistakes over and over again. Um, and you know, did finally kind of blame coaching when he said like, “Why aren’t we maximizing what we have here?” Uh, but overall it he seemed extremely nervous, which I kind of not I I fully understand because right now he’s in a situation that he’s never been in where the large majority of the fan base is mad at him. just not even just, you know, think he might not be the guy for the job. The large majority is mad at him and he doesn’t have Brian Dable at his side anymore. They just fired a defensive coordinator a week before before getting blown out on prime time. They’ve lost seven straight games. Uh, and you’re getting ready to just answer, you know, 20 minutes worth of questions on why are you so bad at this? I mean, the guy must have had the biggest pit in his stomach before he walked out there. You could tell he was nervous and tried to control it as much as he could, but once he kind of had to get forced into some follow-up questions, that’s where you saw him crack a little bit. Yeah. I mean, so I’ll start this off by saying that of all the people watching this, so that you know, you and you know, everybody watching this, I probably usually take the least out of press conferences that are like these um out of everybody because, you know, Joe Shane, John Mara, they talk to the media so infrequently and they’re always very planned that they’re prepared for. And this is sort of what you get is you get a lot of like, I understand your question. You know what I mean? That right there, that’s like a that’s, you know, that’s preparation. That’s how you just kind of like calmly, you know, acknowledge and you start adding word salad things to just circumn the entire question and just move on. Um, so generally I I I don’t take that much away from press conferences and I take more away from like actions than I do words. Um, so you know, I I never go into these things like with like a pen and paper ready to like rip apart word for word the answers from a transcript. Like it really matters, you know what I mean? So, um, I’m not really ready here to eviscerate everything on that level, but at the same time, like, yeah, 100%. Like the whole thing was weird. Showing up like a half hour late was super weird. Um, you know, he he did a pretty good job, like you said, of just kind of the canned responses and just getting through the questions and and moving on. He took ownership of some things and and and eventually you could see, like you said, like the follow-up questions started the the passing of the buck. For me, one of the most illuminating answers for him was not necessarily just the admission of mistakes and saying that like, you know, I I’ve made mistakes. I haven’t batted a thousand, whatever. Um, you know, and I totally agree with you, like the most damning thing that made me want to strangle and was saying that like I learn from mistakes and don’t make the same mistake twice is dudes just walking, you know, into the same wall over and over and over again. But um I I I thought the admission that he said early on we strayed a little bit from what we believe in was almost like a direct uh a direct line to 2023 which to me was his greatest misstep was the entire 2023 offseason where they just completely strayed from what they did in 2022 where they they left no stone on stone unturned. Uh they they went and found everything they could on the cheap. They made everybody fight for roster positions. nothing was given. Everything had to be earned. And then in 2023, it was almost like everything was given and they were ready to move for a Super Bowl and they made all these crazy win now moves. Um, I thought that was illuminating that he at least had that level of self scouting. Um, but every otherwise, I mean, it looked like a very nervous man uh up there, like you said, all alone, too. Like, he walked into this job basically didn’t give Brian Dable an interview or interview anybody else and had somebody at his side that is no longer there. And uh he really did stand alone on that stage both physically and metaphorically. Uh it was it was a mess. But you know to me the weirdest thing was just believing. Did it feel like the press conference was over or like there was a time limit? He just kind of like walked away and then like had one more thing he had to answer for Renan and then like stepped back sort of sat into the microphone and then bailed. Yeah, that that was definitely weird. And you know, I I kind of wish if if he is the GM going forward, I kind of wish like, you know what, have a little bit of like a screw it mindset of like, you know what, like this is right. This is going in the right direction. I don’t care what anybody says. Uh, as much as Chris Ballard and folks get clowned on that, like they they believe in what they’re doing and that where I think Joe Shane is very reactionary and as a general manager. Here’s the I think the was the most important thing and to get back to the question he was asked if he was given any assurances from ownership, right? And last year he was confident like like yeah I’m I’m going to be back like you know we have great dialogue with ownership. He said ownership’s going to evaluate everything at the end of the season as they should. meaning no. Um, it does feel like the tide is changing a little bit on his job security even though I’m, you know, I still hear things and, you know, we’re not insiders, but, you know, you still hear things that make you think like, yeah, he’s safe and that like they’re still operating with him as that they he’s going to be their GM next year and it’s, you know, maybe these Flash four games matter. the, you know, Connor article, uh, you know, talking about it, you know, seems kind of important. But that was the thing where he he did say like he he said he basically said, “No, I haven’t had any asurances that I’m going to be the GM next year.” So maybe why he felt so nervous in this thing, too. It could be. Yeah, it could be. It Look, my my feelings on his his job security did change a little bit after this. It felt it felt shakier from the moment he was over a half hour late uh and then stormed off the stage. Um but I don’t think that the press conference itself changed anything if that Yeah. Like you know his demeanor and actions didn’t feel very secure. Uh ultimately though I think the original report that we heard that Brian Dable was gone and Joe Shane would be safe is probably that that felt more truthful to me than the subsequent reports. says like, well, you know, he may not be as that to me felt like a damage control report that was nipped out. Um, and and again, like I know I know Joe Shane doesn’t sound as confident, whatever, but like again, these press conferences are planned for. They know this question’s coming or or at least there’s a good chance of this question coming. And, you know, could have easily been told like, listen, don’t tell them that you’re come like we have to stick with this story that we’re evaluating things. So, so yeah, that that is definitely illuminating, but I’m not like I don’t know. I’m not believing a whole lot that comes out of this stuff. Yeah, me either. He’s definitely was prepared for it. Here’s the answer to the other part of the question of like what would you what did you want asked that was missed? I think the biggest thing would be hearing something on the pending free agents of you know of you know what I actually with Juan Dale and Flaw I think those conversations are bigger. I I would like to hear what his thoughts were on Germaine Aluminor because Illuminar obviously wants the bag. You know, he tweets um what he does on purpose because he wants the bag and I’m going to do everything I can these last four games for you. Like um that’s what kind of the other thing that I would have wanted to hear that wasn’t touched upon, but I understand why they didn’t get to that with, you know, basically 20 minutes to talk about those things. And if he’s if he’s retained, he’ll have a press conference at the end of the year when you can ask him those things. Yeah. I mean, this is really difficult because or a vision for the head coach. I would have liked to hear about that. That so those are those are really good examples of questions because it takes the onus off of Joe Shane explaining himself and it does sort of continue to answer the question of like why do you deserve to be here for the future? So, those are really good examples and it’s better than my answer because it’s really hard to like come up with one of these. Um, and I think for me is I would have wanted some level of admission of like where where are your mistakes? So, like my question that I kind of thought of was like self scouting was like a big talking point when he came in here and arrived in 2022. Uh, and and you’ve admitted now that you’ve made some mistakes. So, I don’t want you to go through, you know, each individual one, but I would like you to identify, you know, what you think your biggest mistakes were. If you could name, you know, one through three. If you give me one, that’s fine. If you could give me three, that’s even better. And and how you’d grade your performance thus far because like you’re admitting to making mistakes. Okay. Which tell me what you think your mistakes are because I want to know cuz I’ve got a laundry list of them and I can put them in my order, but I want to know what you think, you know? Yeah. It would have been nice to get pressed on like run defense specifically Graham Gnau. Well, to being on the roster, Pat Leonard tried very hard. Yeah. Um and and this is why my question’s kind of bad is because he’s just not going to do that. So, um All right, let’s let’s hit the next question. And the next one comes from Anashi. With Wandelle currently on pace for over a thousand yards, has your evaluation of him changed or is he simply being utilized better? So, I actually want I was curious like how much has my thoughts on Juan Delale Robinson changed and I went and listened to our wide receiver review that I did on Talking Giants last January and I’ll be honest, I I I don’t think it’s changed. And I took some bullet points of the things I said on him. I said he’s solid. He does have limitations, but I think he’s an above average player. He’s a top 10 player on the Giants. Second best player from his class. Better QB play will help him. It’ll get his, you know, yards per catch up from seven and a half to 10. Um, a better, you know, different quarterback play changes some about his game. Not a ton, but he’ll get more of like those 10 to 15 yard corner routes that he does really well, like that sick route he had against the Lions. Uh, was limited to choice routes in the previous offense. said he was replaceable, right, which we’ll talk about that. He’ll get open on some zone beaters down the field, but overall he’s not a downfield threat. He’s not running a vertical on the outside or a post rep. And he’ll have some he’ll have some big games. So, I’m like, man, that’s kind of how I I feel about Juan Dell. I will say the thing I wanted to see him do this year was get more Yak. And I think he’s done that, right? The Eagles touchdown, he’s 11th in Yak in the NFL this year. Um, yak per reception is not something I I look at that often because it’s it’s very sample size biased. Um, guys have a lot of catches aren’t going to have as much yak reception as, you know, certain guys. Um, here’s where I get so frustrated talking about Juan Dale because I like him. Like I said, I think he’s an above average player. Grump. I think his role goes back to very similar to what it was previously was when Malik Neighbors comes back. And I just I have a hard time getting overly invested in Wandelle. And I know you like Wandale more than me. So, I want to hear your thoughts on on Yeah, I I I think I do because I think that Well, let me start with this. My My analysis of him changed since draft day a few years ago. Initially, when he was drafted, I was kind of bummed. I was not into that pick. Didn’t like it. Didn’t like the value. Um, and it just I think what I realized later on is that he felt like a piece to a jigsaw puzzle that was missing all the surrounding pieces. Like you know when you’re doing one, you’re like, “Oh, it’s this color, so it goes here, but I don’t have any of the other ones that go into that piece right now, so I know it goes somewhere in this spot.” It just kind of felt like that. Like it was just missing all the supporting pieces to make it feel solid. Um, and you know those pieces being like the QB situation was rocky. The O line was terrible. And I think that’s the biggest thing because it almost required the entire offensive scheme to revolve around a quick passing game which put him within three yards or behind the line of scrimmage for almost all of his catches, all of his targets. And I I I think that what we’re seeing now this year with this offensive line actually all healthy together um and and playing well. I think the offensive line is doing well. I think this is what allows Wandel Robinson to be um utilized better, right? I I think the overall state of the team prevented him from being utilized optimally. I do think that the amount of yard like like he’s not a Mons around, right? Like he’s doesn’t have that ability to stretch the field vertically. Um, but I do think that he can frustrate teams and I think a different offensive coordinator coming in here will could continue to use him in tandem with Malik Neighbor so that he is better than he was in his first two years his utilization. But I I don’t think that we should be expecting these thousandy seasons from him with a healthy Malik neighbor. That’s where like so right now he has 73 catches, 828 yards. He’s on pace for 95 catches um which I think might even be less than last year. and then 1,082 yards. So that’s going to be like his career year, which you know what I think is been my biggest change in my Juan Dale Robinson thoughts, Grump. No, I think it’s Darius Sllayton having a weaker year. I I really think if Darius Sllayton was having a similar year to where he usually has, I don’t I think I would be the conversation about Ju would be very similar, but he’s he’s had a couple big games, right? Had a career game against the Lions. I think them playing with so much two tight end sets uh has allowed him to have some of those big games. And then you have the Cowboys game, which I I do think it’s an anomaly where they’re just leaving the seams wide open. Like I don’t think that’ll ever happen again. If it does, it’ll be very rare. Um, but I think Darius Sllayton having a weak year really throws a wrench into what like I think about Juan Dale and and his future with the team. And you know, here’s another thing, Grump. Did you know this? As much as Darius Slayton is having a a down year, Juanale and Darius Sllayton have played together in 10 games this season, Sllayton has more yards than him in six of those 10. Right. And now Juan Dale’s had the the four bigger games, right? He’s had the the Lions, the Cowboys, um and then Sllayton wasn’t there for the Broncos game and then but for the Broncos and Eagles game when Juanell had big games. But it’s just when there’s decisions to be made this off season, right? Like Germaine Aluminor, Cordell Flaw, and then you want to attack other spots in free agency. Another thing I said on the wide receiver review last January, I was like, he might be the guy I’m making the sacrifice of letting go to prior prioritize other things. And when you have Malik Neighbors back, if you’re paying Wel Robinson 15 mil plus per year, you’re basically saying, I have no desire to make a big investment into this wide receiver spot, whether that’s high draft capital, um, or another free agent, for at least two years. Um, and so I just I flip-flop on Juan Dale and what to do with him all the time because he is a good player. He does have limitations. Uh, but the thing that I think puts me back in the side of like I’m just not making a big big investment in him is the fact that I think his role goes back to very similar to what it was when Malik Neighbors returns. Um, and that is like he’s a slot only player. He’s played a little more on the outside this year because they’ve been so thin at wide receiver number one and they’ve run so many two tight end sets that he’s just plays outside, you know, by, you know, uh, by default in those situations where I just I I don’t know. But here’s the other part, Grump. I I don’t know what his contract’s going to be, right? When we’re going to do a pending free agent episode this off seasonason, I’ve been pretty damn good on those episodes. Not to pat myself on the back of projecting what guys are going to get. Um I have no clue what Juanale is going to get cuz you look at the Shakir contract but you know Wale having a good year this year like I have no clue what what they’re what he’s going to get and that obviously makes a big difference of what I think about the future with him. So um while I think his role will go back to something similar to what it was, I think it’ll still be better. Um be and I and I also think that the the general state of the offense I feel like I’ve said this a million times so I hate to repeat myself and I know it’s really annoying but like a lot of the last couple years for Wandale is not only just catching passes around the line of scrimmage that the team is so bad and so predictable and the quick passing game is so predictable that like he’s had to like break like four tackles before even making it to the line of scrimmage. So, you know, in a more open offense, even with the same role, if he’s out there and just has one man to beat, he can and will beat that guy a lot of the time. So, you know, the reduced role, I don’t think necessarily means reduced down to just this slog of an offense. And, you know, the thousand the thousand yard receiving interrupt you. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. It’s a It depends on who the offensive coordinator is. Oh, yeah. that role is the same for like you know Josh Allen I think is the best quarterback in the NFL right now. That slot role in that Josh Allen offense is the exact same role that Juan Dell has used before. So like it depends just because you know Josh Allen is this big armed quarterback and stuff like doesn’t change Shir’s role and what they’re doing. I think Wellell has more juice than than Kio Shakir. Also, the Bills uh have are kind of funny. Like every player on their team is like I saw someone describe as like outside slot, uh tight end slot, regular slot, big slot, running back slot. Um but like again, it’s just if he’s not going to be that outside receiver, like his plays down the field are like limited corner routes and then zone beaters, which zone beaters, anybody can fill that role. again the the but I I I still think that it it still changes the way you feel about it. The role being the role like Khal Shakir getting 820 yards on 100 targets last year is not the same as you know 140 forale to only get 700 yards. You know what I mean? So like a better offense that’s more expansive. I think it allows him to be a little bit better. I don’t really you know I don’t feel that strongly about this. The other thing is that just as a like a side note, thousand yard receiving yard for Wel Robinson isn’t just a careerhigh outside of the one Malik Neighbors year. That would make him the most yards receiving for this team since when Darius Lelay has never had a thousand yard. Not even close. He’s been 300 yards away almost every year. So, I mean, this is not a small feat for him. And I I understand you’re you’re not wrong about like the Dallas game being like a ridiculous weight in his shoulder, but like I I I think even now even with like the extra targets he’s getting with Malik Neighbors out, I think Malik Neighbors added to this offense allows him to be in situations where he only has one or two guys to beat and he can get Yak that way. So, um you know, Yak is the key for him. Like he’s got to he’s got to consistently be good at Yak for him to be at his best. Yeah. Um, so I I mean, Wandell to me is the most interesting player in this free agency. Not the most important, but the most interesting because there’s definitely a role for him on this team. It’s just how good is he in that role given the limitations he does have like with length and the ability to stretch the field and how important is that role on this team given all the other holes that they have. Yeah, I I he’s I’m trying to think of a player where I just varied in like my thoughts not on who he is as a player of like what to do with him. I I I really can’t remember a player where I’m like what well what type of contract is he going to get even if you can get him at this do you even keep him when you’re making like you know where usually I’m really just way more convicted whether I end up being right or wrong regardless I just don’t have that with Juan Dale and I just feel like oh man are weak I don’t want to be a victim of him having a career year on a team that somebody has to get these catches and Slayan having a bad year flat out. You know, Slate’s having his worst year of his career uh career outside of 2021 when they, you know, signed Gall and drafted Tony and had Shepard. Um so, all right, next question. Next question comes from at all blue Giants. After the Joe Shane presser, one out of my two questions were answered. One, if he understood the question, and two, if you can read an ad. I can read an ad. I am so excited to see the Giants at home against the Commanders this this weekend. Grump’s going to be there and I’m like, how how am I going to get there though? What in the world? How do I do this? Well, guess what? I go to Segeek and that’s why today’s episode is sponsored by Segeek and I want to give them a huge shout out. With over 35 million downloads, Segeek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on SeaGeeek, including concerts, sports, festivals, and more. The NFL and college football are in full swing. The NBA is officially back. 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So, look for the green dots. Green means good, red means bad. Plus, every ticket is backed by their buyer guarantee. And of course, I have a code for you guys. You can use code Bobby 2025 for 10% off your next set of tickets at Segeek. That’s 10% off any tickets with promo code Bobby 2025. I wonder if that code will be done at the end of 2025. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and have the code automatically added to your account so you can use it later. Thank you, Segeek. You’ll be glad you did. You will be glad you did. Uh are we going to that Devil’s Lightning game? If you’re down, I’m I’m going. So, are you going? It’s That’s the 11th. Thursday. Yeah. All right. Sounds good. We’ll record we’re recording the preview pod and then uh going to going to the game. Sounds good to me. I’m excited for that. Um I just uh I just saw the Devils. I didn’t use Segeek, but I also didn’t buy the tickets. They were a gift. So I bet you they use Sege Geek. They I They better have or crack some skulls. All right. Next question. Next question comes from Lil Juicebox 24. Do you think Carter’s actions stem from the coaching or lack of leadership in the locker room? Seems like Joe Shane was struggling to name leaders during his presser, especially uh when the names he let go were mentioned. So, I think it can come from the coaching staff. But here’s the other thing. He’s not a kid. He’s a grown man. Grow up. Like that’s the other like Abdul Gard needs to take. It’s not anybody else’s fault, right? no one else is getting suspended. I do think there is an issue with uh you with uh accountability and stuff like that. And I think that has more to do with, you know, really dialing in film study and being dialed in on practice more so than but being laid is a is a personal problem. Should get your ass there on time. I know Brian Dable find guys for being late, right? And he’s basically always done that. um you know uh but be an adult and get there. And here’s what I’ll say with Abdul Carter as a player, too. He has more total sack or sacks, hits, and pressures than like Brian Burns or anyone on this team. And that and that’s good. And that can be an indicator that sacks are coming, but they do have to come eventually, right? Like you need to get sacks flat out. Like we didn’t draft him just to get pressures and quarterback hits. Um, he needs to he needs to be a player that gets double digit sacks consistently. Um, so th those are the two things from Abdul Carter, right? I’ve I think he’s done a lot of good things, but grow up and get sacks. Like, as simple as that, Grump. Yeah, I mean, I think it’s both. Um, I think it’s both lack of leadership in the locker room and lack of leadership from the coaching staff. I know Brian Dables fined people for being late, but if it’s been a consistent problem all year, then clearly the fines aren’t working, right? So, right there, I mean, like that just I I don’t know. It just tells you that what you’re doing is not getting through. So, what’s the point of even finding him anymore? Were you just collecting money? Uh where does that money even go when you find when you find your own players? I don’t even get that. I guess it just goes back to the organization. But, um it’s if it’s not working, then you’re not really disciplining anybody, right? So, that doesn’t really help. But I as much as I want to say it’s both and I it’s you’re absolutely right that Abdul Carter is a grown man. 21 years old is not a kid especially these guys are different than us. Um I think it’s more so coaching. The reason I say that is because even though there’s a definite lack of leaders in the defensive locker room um even if there were it’s not very easy for another player to stand up and be a leader and be taken seriously by the younger players if the man at the top lets his star players live above the rules. Like why are you gonna listen to your older brother if your dad just doesn’t care? You’re not. That was an issue with the offense last year, you know, where there was some leaders like, “Hey, we need to hold this guy accountable and uh they were basically ignored um and told to worry about yourself.” So, yeah. So, I mean, I I think it starts at the top first and foremost. Even if you had good leaders in that defensive locker room, I don’t think that they would be able to do their job as leaders effectively. Now that we’re on this leadership topic, um, you know, that’s like what the Giants are looking for in their head coach. Yeah. And this is my worry with the Giants. It’s not like, oh, I don’t want leadership or accountability or someone who runs a tight, you know, a a tough practice and stuff. It’s that the Giants have the, hey, fix one issue at a time. And I just worry that they do that and by doing that they create other issues where it’s like yeah the offensive coordinator sucks and that’s hurting Jackson Dart’s development and you know all this um you know that’s just kind of been in my head. I was like yeah I want leadership and stuff too but I want I just leadership doesn’t come through always come through being a hard I think Kevin Oonnell is probably a really good leader even though people laughed at him as a head coaching candidate at the time. like you don’t need Brian Flores type to be, you know, hold people accountable and stuff. Um, in fact, that can be counterintuitive at at times because guys tune you out quicker. Um, but back to Abdul Carter again, he needs to show up on time. The thing I’m like, you know what, start getting sacks, get more consistent sacks. Like, you know, the, you know, the first eight, nine games of the year, I’m like, listen, he is performing. The sack numbers are coming. All right. Well, they haven’t really shown up. um start start to uh get those numbers because those matter. We didn’t draft you third overall to just get quarterback hits and pressures. We drafted you third overall to get sacks. Um and and and handle all this [ __ ] that’s going on because if you can’t handle it, you’ll never be good. Oh yeah. and and like that’s I think the thing that disappoints me the most is not just repeating the mistakes you know all year and then you know back to being called out and then but like you got to be able to just be accountable like you’ve been called out you’ve been publicly which I you know to your point like you don’t need to hire Tom Coughlin to you know set the clocks five minutes early to be a disciplinarian you just need someone to actually discipline guys and increase the discipline when it doesn’t work you set out a series now you’re gonna sit out multiple series like this kind of stuff. It puts it in the public eye. Now there I would say now more than ever the public is the most negative it’s ever been on Abdul Carter while still not being negative, right? Like I don’t think anyone had a lot of problems with Abdul Carter five weeks ago. Um I think the prime time game really changes it where now everyone’s, oh Abdul Carter missed the hurt the whole first quarter. Oh, he only has a sack and a half on the season. Oh, you’re, you know, he’s getting mad about a joke, you know, report that was put out there. Um, like the large public is not looking at quarterback hits and pressures and watching cutups that me and Nick Fato put together of Abdul Carter or listening to the mailbag podcast when we break down uh an Abdul Carter segment for 15 minutes uh a few weeks ago. So, like get get sex, you know, like it’s it’s as simple as that. if that starts that stuff starts to happen, then everyone’s going to love him. So, you know, if if I was um but again, I also do like Abdul Carter’s film. Like, I’m not going to sit here and and say, “Oh, he’s not getting sex.” I do. I think he’s going to get sex. And it’s not just based on me liking him as a prospect or being a delusional Giants fan. I watch I watch the film, bro. And I’m like, so if my if I were to give a dual Carter me a message right now and be like, “Hey, shit’s messy right now, but keep trying to ball out.” And the film doesn’t lie. You’re you are able to produce. It’s going to come eventually. Numbers will come and then the noise will dial down. We’ve seen this a million times with different players. Grump, the number if if you continue to do that type of stuff, the numbers will come. Don’t forget, you know, Leonard Williams half a sack season when the Giants traded for him, right? And then guess what happens the next year? 11 and a half sacks. So it was basically the exact same thing. Again, different players, different scenarios and all that, but just put your head down and work. Put your head down and work and learn what makes guys go from good to great in the NFL. 100%. The only thing I would add to that is just remember that as negative as people may be at times, ultimately Giants fans want you to be great. They want to show up to games wearing your jersey and they want to be screaming in opposing fans faces when you get sacks. That’s what they want and they’re going to be in your corner. I will never forget being in an Indianapolis Colts game and chant. People were chanting Daniel Jones’s name. That’s what fans want from their players. They can forgive and forget a lot of stuff. Go out there, perform. And how do you perform? Go into the building and get work done. Just get work done. And you know, you’re not going to get sacks if you keep getting benched for being late. And it’ll flip quick, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, look at Theo Johnson. Has three good games. Wow, this guy has a piece right now. Again, you got to be consistent. Theo Johnson has a couple drops that all goes away. Um, but you know, put hell even, you know, two questions from now, uh, you know, there’s a question about a guy like, has he really turned the corner? And he’s not, but we’ll we’ll talk about that. Next question. Next question comes from Dee Freak 72. Can you give three players playing better than your preseason expectations and three players playing worse than your preseason expectations? How do you want to do this? You want to go back and forth better and then back and forth worse. Um, let’s just do quick. I’ll say my three and then you or you say your three, I’ll say my three and then we’ll discuss. So, let’s do your three that are doing better than you expected. Go ahead. Better than I expected this year. Um, Cordell Flot, Jackson Dart, Cam Scataboo. Okay. Cam. Ah, Cam Scatter was a good one. So, I actually went Cordell flot number one, Jackson dart number two, and I put Juan Dale at three just cuz, you know, I didn’t think he’d get the yard a thousand yard season. Uh, this year we we don’t need the disc. We just did a 20-minute segment on one day. We don’t need to do that. Flu’s the easy one. Yeah. I mean, you know, we did our camp battle polls and 88% of people said he should be the backup and now he might be their best the best. He probably is their best corner on the team. Dart’s the one where it’s crazy to look back Grump and the conversation is like when does Dart play? Like week 13. Yeah. And here here we are, you know, where it’s like Russell Wilson has to go in the field for two plays and I’m just going to go to the bathroom and walk away from the TV for those two plays. Yeah. So it’s like just one him being uh but again he’s he’s playing really well, you know. Uh, Sunday or Monday night was uh I I actually when I watched the film, bro, I thought it was a below average game, but like man, he just feels like he has a bit of control of being an NFL quarterback. He doesn’t look like he’s lost out there at all. Um, you know, a year from now and then the year after that will be more debate of like how good is he, where does he rank among other quarterbacks and where scrutiny gets a little more tougher. But like what we don’t have as a rookie is a Zack Wilson, Justin Fields, you know, Phil, Trevor Lawrence, where it’s just like he’s a rookie, he’s a rookie. No, we’re we’re saying he’s doing good things. We’re not trying to excuse bad play with he’s a rookie. Um the the Camas Gataboo thing for me is just I it was a real question for me if his style of play was going to translate to the next level. I really wasn’t sure. And beyond that, not only has it worked, it it’s um not only has it worked, but he had like this extra ability to supercharge the rest of the team. It’s he’s been a morale booster. Um I really wasn’t sure what we were going to get, but I thought, you know, the value in the fourth round, you know, why not, right? Like getting bodies in the running back room was definitely needed. you eventually need somebody to kind of get you tough yards, but like man, I I did not expect him year one to just come in here and be running over dudes and breaking tackles, not giving up on plays. This dude just doesn’t care. Um, I I’m I’m you know, I’m not going to try and overvalue what he is, but what I expected coming into this year was I had a lot of reservations and I was just, you know, just as much as I liked watching him in college, I just wanted to tempo myself and, you know, not get too excited and let him see in the NFL game like this is way better than I thought. Yeah. The question was like, as as fun as he was, there was red flags on the scouting report and it was like, all right, is he going to be able to run through the chest of defensive linemen and break the tackles of linebackers? and he showed absolutely he can do that. So, um you know, we always knew he could break tackles at DBs in the NFL, but so you’ve seen that. So, that that’s a good answer. Uh what is what would be your three worst than expectations players? I think this one’s way easier to answer. Um worse than my expectations, start right off Dexter Lawrence, after that Darius Sllayton, after that Russell Wilson. All three of those guys are playing way worse than I thought. This is where you can go a lot. I I I don’t like putting Dex on here because I actually thought the Patriots game was terrible by Dex and there has been some of those games, but like when you watch the film, bro, he’s their second best player on defense this year, Brian Burns, and he’s been a good player. Like if we didn’t have that standard of like amazing, we would But is that what you expected? I I agree. But I just think in a year. So I I’m actually Tyrone Tracy’s number one for me. Okay. Yeah. He was the one guy from last year’s class when I was telling everybody that last year’s class is overrated. I was like, but not him. He’s a hit. And now it’s like, is he even RB2 next year, you know, to start start the season? Like that’s I I I didn’t imagine being in that spot. Slayton is on there for me. And so here’s I guess I would go between Abdul Carter or Dexter Lawrence. So it’s like as much as I like Abdul Carter’s rookie season, I thought he’d get more sacks, man. I really thought he’d have like a eight sack season. Um but I guess I’ll go Dexter Lawrence because you know what, Dexter Lawrence isn’t getting the consistent hits and pressures and wins that he used to. And he’s also not getting any sacks either. He has less sacks than Odell Carter. So I I I’ll go Dexter Lawrence as well. Yeah. I mean, I I had I I wasn’t sure if I wanted to put Carter. I have him in parenthesis next to it. I I really wasn’t sure if I wanted to do that. But overall, he’s been consistently getting pressures. I don’t think that Abdul Carter really had too many bad games, whereas Dexter Lawrence was like going up against backup centers and not getting anything. And it’s like Abdul Carter is a rookie, you know, going up against backup whatever. But Dexter Lawrence going up against backups is just not what I expected. You know what? I’m flat out taking Abdul Cer even totally away from the list. He had a bad three-game stretch and these little suspensions are clouding my judgment. You would ask me 3 weeks ago what I thought about Abdul Card and I said I would say please. I would take him again in a reddraft outside of quarterback. Uh I like his film. You know what? I’m not let I’m not letting this recency bias cloud my judgment. Abdul Carter, you’re you’re off the list. Get more sacks, buddy, but you’re nowhere near the damn list. I’m sorry for even considering you on it. Russell Wilson for me is somebody that I knew had limitations. I understood the signing though. Um, you know, whatever about the money, that’s not really part of the I I understood the wanting to get a veteran that you think could come in, learn an offense very quickly and bridge your gap, whatever. I get it. I get the signing. I did not think he would look like absolute dog [ __ ] this year. And that’s what he looked like. Like just absolute trash. This is not what I expected. And again, I didn’t expect him to be good. I didn’t expect him to win lots of games this year or anything like that, but for him to be benched this early, like we were saying with Jackson Dart, like, “Oh, when does he start week 13?” Like, I really didn’t expect Brian Dable to have to go out there very early in the year and be like, “This is my decision. I am benching this dude.” You know what I mean? So, that to me was pretty alarming when I really look back at what I thought of everything preseason and where I am now. Yeah. I didn’t have very high hopes for him. I didn’t think he’d be as bad as he was. But yeah, I mean he he the difference between this year and last year is this year he was just staring at the rush and it’s like uh that’s the that’s the switch that goes from you go from below average to you can’t play him. Um next question. Next question comes from definitely not a cop. How has John Michael Schmidz looked? I saw him tossing someone to the ground last week and to my untrained eye he looks good. What does the film say, bro? Well, bro, um I feel I find Joe Shane. That’s another thing from Joe Shane press conference like we got a center. I’m like, do we do we actually um that’s that’s an appealing part of this job. Uh so, you know what I reminded myself of? On the award show last year, I voted John Michael Schmidz as the most improved player. Like, what? So, last year he gave up five sacks according to PFF. this year won and that’s obviously a big difference. But three of the sacks last year were those stupid pop out protections where they’re facing these double mug looks and if somebody backs out, he goes and takes the edge and teams were game planning it. So, it wasn’t his fault, but he was getting credited for them. I think he’s the almost exact same player as last year. He hasn’t had the recent like one-on-one match up with like a Vea who destroys him and embarrasses him. Um but like you know he’s right Jaylen Carter uh he I mean Jaylen Carter did it play was Jaylen Carter even the second game they played Jaylen Carter played didn’t he just absolutely not was that a slotman game I can’t remember exact actually yeah he gave a sack in that game I think but like he’s smart you know he handles one-on- ones with bad defensive tackles and passion well he’s still really bad on the run game you know like he gives up ground he limits what you can do he can hold on to blocks but guys just two gap them very easily, right? Like, you know, when I watch the film, bro, the run game, it’s just defensive linemen get their hands on them, extend, and they just get to re, you know, they just get they basically just get to decide, all right, running back declare, so I can move to that side. Um, so I I think he’s a serviceable center. He was the same thing I thought last year, but last year the JMS PR was probably a little lower. It’s a little higher now. Um, so I I think he’s the same player as last year. An average pass blocker at center and a below average run blocker. Yeah, I think overall he’s been pretty average. Uh, he’s he has improved since his time starting here. Uh, as you said, um, he he’s not a dummy. Like his mistakes are not, you know, in the wrong place or makes the wrong read. Like he’s a smart guy. He’s usually in the right place at the right time. His snaps are good. Um, I think on the move he he’s probably a better blocker when he kicks out and gets to the second level or something like that. He combos pretty well, but overall he’s not a good run blocker. At best, he kind of torqus guys out of the way. Never really gets any drive whatsoever. Um, I and I think like even in pass blocking situations, he’s he’s pretty average. You know, doesn’t give up too much ground. Um, there’s usually room in the pocket for quarterbacks to step up because when he gives up ground, it’s usually to one side or the other, leaving place for for Jackson Dart to step up in the pocket. But, um, when there’s good talent in front of him, he is never an advantage. He’s never he he’s never going to handle that well. He struggles with the talent in front of him. He struggles, I think, also with quick shots into the gaps. Like it’s not that he doesn’t get a hand on the guy, it’s just that he’s so late and doesn’t recover from those that he ends up just kind of chasing uh in those situations. Uh at the end of the day, I don’t think that he’s ever an asset, but he’s also usually not a liability. Just sounds like it translates to average to me. Yeah. Again, I think average is even a compliment because I think he’s well below average as a run blocker and in pass protection, it’s he’s not an issue. Unless you get a match up with a nose tack, which they just haven’t had a lot of those, right? Um this year and he’s usually getting two hand set of hands. He’s smart, right? Like that’s the thing with JMS. He’s extremely smart. He’s always in the right place. And then when he gets two smart guys next to him and Renan and Greg Van Roen, that’s why this interior offensive line, despite not having any above average players, it hasn’t been an issue this year because they’re not getting blitzed a ton to create a bunch of one-on- ons. Dart has been good avoiding some of that stuff, too. So, uh, so yeah, but I I went back and looked. I was like, “Oh, yeah, I did vote John Michael Smith’s most improved.” Now, last year was the worst possible year to do the most improved. In fact, it pissed me off because the fans last year voted Micah McFaten most improved when he won the award the year before. And don’t tell me he’s the most improved player two years in a row. Um, so yeah. Next, last question. Last question comes from Stan Mune. What was your favorite, least favorite, and funniest memory from the Brian Dable era? This was tougher than I thought. We’ll go quick. I mean, and I took out the playoff win. Yeah. Week one Titans, right? We We could get creative and stuff, but week one Titans going for two, losing his mind, you know, dancing in the locker room. Like, you know, that was that was a moment right there. That was a close second for me. that that picture of him dancing in the locker room was my Twitter header up until the day he was fired. Uh which it’s now a picture of Mike Kfka at the Senior Bowl. I noticed that. Yep. Oh, I mean I can’t have Brian Dable on there anymore. It’s got to be gone. So, but for me, I went with something that was a little bit more personal for me and it was the 2022 Packers game in London. Um because I went to it and I really had no expectations of that game. Really thought we were going to lose and uh not only was it a compelling exciting game, it come away with a win. and Packers fans. That was the first game that Green Bay got internationally. They came in droves, dude, and they left in misery. I was taking pictures of people at the bar just absolutely miserable after that game. It was awesome. Uh so that was a really big moment for me. Yeah, for some reason I thought about the Packers game as well too because you remember him coming off the field pumping his fist and losing his mind. So that that was what the least favorite and funny was actually hard to do because he’s doesn’t anything. I actually think it’s different like uh you know unless you’re just like oh they lost this game. Um I have two for funniest and I might think of more later. The blue tent thing where he’s just losing his mind on the doctors and being like you know they’re they’re actually they’re actively playing the game and he’s like freaking out because Russell Wilson is on the field. Um, and you know what was an underrated one? Remember last year when Drew Lock scrambled and then just ran sideways and he’s just like Drew Lock is walking somebody’s just call me like forward for you have to go forward. Was that the Thanksgiving game? No, I think that was the it was the Saints game. Oh, okay. where he that was like you’ve seen Brian Dable lose his mind on Daniel Jones, Tyrock Taylor and that was like a moment of like you’re just so stupid Drew Lock like I think you’re a [ __ ] Um like where I’m just going to condescendingly be like you have to go forward. Um so did I mean what was a funny one for you cuz he was so reserved in everything. Yeah. Outside of like losing his mind when they won the game and yelling at people. I had two funny ones also. Um and the one of them is like depressing funny. Um the Jets game where Graham Gnau missed the 35 yard to win the game due to a leg injury that he would later need surgery for. I mean that to me was just so bad that it was comical and I was at that game and I just couldn’t help but laugh. I was like are we we’re not a serious team right now. Uh so that to me was kind of funny uh but in a dark way. The other one was um the Bills game in 2023 where right before the half Tyrod Taylor did that dumb [ __ ] and the clock ran out on the half. They couldn’t score and he lost his mind first on Mike Kfka who was just like I didn’t call that play. Like the just the whole reaction of that was hilarious. And then he’s trying to go into the tunnel and he’s got to stop for those stupid mandatory like sideline reporter things and he just did. He’s like, “I’m sorry. I just I can’t focus on any of these questions right now. I I I’m just I’ve lost my mind.” Uh, which was which was pretty funny for me. It almost went into my least favorite category where it’s like, “Dude, chill out.” Yeah. I mean, I mean, I guess the other one could have been No. No. The chill out thing for me is the rage challenge from this year. That’s where you got to like get your control, which which is also if you’re a non-fan is pretty funny if you’re like a fan of any other team. My my least favorite moment was without question one of the easiest things was the home opener in 2023. Pouring rain, 40 to nothing. Come in there with all these expectations. I just got soaking wet, freezing. I think I got sick from that game. All to watch one of the worst performances I have ever in my life sat through. That was that was the lowest point for me. Yeah. So I think you’re like I was thinking more like Brian Dable specific than I guess moment. I mean the 40 to zero loss to the Cowboys was as low as the gets. I was thinking like least favorite things he did. One of my least favorite things he ever did was after they got blown out by the Bucks last year and players questioned their effort. Him spending the film session showing cutups of them having good effort. Oh, it’s like oh this this is just a joke, dude. Um and probably the abuse of Kfka where it’s just like dude this lead let this guy go if you’re just gonna freaking like just treating him like a stepchild. Yeah. Just terrible. So I guess that was on there but it was hard to find specific thing. Maybe firing Jerome Henderson last year which was like kind of weak. Um I know people probably go to the Wink Martindale like maybe gameball wink. part of me kind of. So, here’s the thing. As much as Brian Dable handled that unprofessionally, I think people forget about this in the Wink Martindale situation, Wink Martindelle’s ego was an issue. Yes. Like people kind of brushed that under the table. Even like Authentic had a conversation with him a couple weeks ago at the Maryland game and like he pointed out things that were wrong about Brian Dable, but like Wink like his ego comes out in that a bit too. Um, and that was an issue even though Brian Dable and like and like they did a lot Brian Dable’s issues led to a lot of that like that was an issue as well too. Um, trying to think I’m I’m actually just searching Brian Dable on my account to like see if there’s anything that to to to add on to that Wink Martindale thing too is that like part of that ego problem is that you had a dynamic where you had a guy who really did believe that he is a head coach in Wink Martindale. He had interviewed for it many times before in the past. Uh he even said what his plan would be. Like he would hire Joe Brady to be his offensive coordinator. Like I think that’s a guy who didn’t get along with Brian Dable. They didn’t mesh. He didn’t believe in what he was doing. And I’m not even sure what was going on in the building, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some jocking in there where he felt like he deserved that job. Um and you know, I I don’t even know I don’t really know what his plan was at certain points in the year. like was he going to try and cozy up to the right people or or bail and or I don’t know but you know as much as Brian Dable didn’t handle that perfectly like it was not a situation where I think you could handle it perfectly. There was no perfect way to handle that. Yeah. The goatee he had was pretty funny in 2022. Oh wow. I did and his head was like perfectly round at that point and it was just very like this is a terrible look on you which was funny. Um, oh, I’m I’m looking one. Here’s one where he’s challenging a call against the Ravens and he’s up to the ref and he just takes the the flag and goes throws it on the ground like that. Um, any last ones before we go? Funny moments. There was a press conference where after 2022 in the summer, not a press conference, I’m sorry, it was just like an interview where someone asked him, “Uh, what’s something you can improve on?” And like within seconds he just goes, “My weight.” Oh, it’s kind of funny. Actually, you know what? That’s what it was was Giant. It was his opening press conference when Giant Insider asked like, “Where are you from?” South and Giant That was hysterical. I’m I’m from Brooklyn. Oh, okay. That was that was pretty funny. We were laughing. No, I’m to Brooklyn, actually. Border rays. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, that that you know what? That’s the funny that Yeah, that’s that’s the moment right there. From South Carolina. No, Brooklyn, actually. born and raised. He’s like, “Yeah, I know, you [ __ ] idiot.” All right, that’s an episode. The ES from South Carolina. That’s an episode. We’ll uh see you guys. Hey, next episode me and Grump will be together unless some other crazy stuff happens. We have to do an emergency pod. So, we’ll see you we’ll see you in New Jersey. Until then, let’s go Big Blue.

Bobby Skinner & the Football Grump break down the New York Giants latest topics by answering your mailbag questions.

0:00 Intro
5:25 Joe Schoen’s Presser
16:15 Wan’Dale Robinson’s Future
31:00 Abdul Carter’s Issues
39:25 Stock Up & Down
47:00 Has John Michael Schmitz improved?
51:40 Brian Daboll memories

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