The Norris Debate: Why Miro Heiskanen Belongs at the Top

The Norris Debate: Why Miro Heiskanen Belongs at the Top

One of the things that you might be contemplating as you watch Dallas Stars hockey is will Miro Hastinan ever win a Norris Trophy because he’s one of the best defenseman in the NHL and especially this season. It seems as though he’s regained some form that maybe he either lost previously or of course in the playoffs last year wasn’t at 100% because he was coming back from very serious knee surgery. I know there is some recognition and the reason why it got me going was because a lot of the voting ls comes from that big voting block in Toronto. There are a lot of media members that have a lot of votes in the Toronto area, some other major NHL markets. Typically Dallas players don’t get a lot of attention because they don’t get that stage very often. But if they’re starting to make that, could that lead to something whether it’s this year or down the road of, hey, he’s been too good for too long for us not to vote for him, maybe over the guy that has the most points? Yeah, I I guess we might as well get it right out front. As long as as long as number eight is still playing for the Colorado Avalanche and healthy, meaning Kale Mar and you mentioned Quinn Hughes, they’re probably going to get most of the ink and they’re probably going to get most of the points. Um, I think where it changes a little bit for me now with with with Mero is that number one, he’s on penalty kill a lot more now. So now you can I think you can instead of being a one dimensional kind of player, um, I think you can throw him into the category where he’s playing at both ends of the rank and he’s getting about the same amount of time with the exception of ESSA as anybody else would out there. So, um, and the other thing that he’s obviously doing is we see him against top players all the time because of his skating ability. I I do think that there’s going to come a time and then the other thing that comes into the equation for me is injuries and especially this year there’s a lot of injuries and there’s a lot with Thomas Harley being out, Leouching’s been in and out and there’s some other guys that have been in out of lineup and Mural was again 27 28 I think he’s averaging about 27 28 minutes a game now all situations. Um, and then the biggest thing for me that we’re all happy about is he’s shooting the puck more and and I think that’s probably where the points are starting to come. We’re starting to see that and and he’s getting results from shooting it, not just in the goal department, but but pucks are again, we’ll go to the power play. So, they’re the best power play in the league as of right now. And last year, we all were kind of, come on, come on, put Thomas Harley out there because he’s going to shoot the puck and it’s going to break things down. Now Mero’s starting to do that. So obviously he listens to DLLS and he hears us complain about it a lot. But I think but now for me I guess what I I guess in a long-winded way of just now I’m saying he’s becoming more of a rounded defenseman where I think you always kind of you you think of him being that offensive guy. He he defends in his own in his own differently. He defends by having the puck on a stick and carrying it out. Helps having a partner like Esser right now. But I think he’s got definitely in the conversation. There’s no question about it. I just think that in today’s selection for the Norris, these guys just go who’s at the top of the scoring thing and you know where does their team go and how much is the part of the team and Muro’s just as much a part of this team as Quinn Hughes is and Kale Mar. But the points are different and and I just think that’s where it’s going to continue to go. All right, let’s go to the guy who actually has a vote in this award, the professional hockey writers association member himself, Sam Nestler. So Sam, what say you on this matter? Yeah, L’s laid out the the main topics, which is that the the stuff that Miro brings, we all know he’s one of the best defenseman in the league. The problem is that this has become a points award. It just has. There’s no way to argue that. But I wrote about this yesterday. The thing that I’m looking at for Miro is not can he do it or uh you know what does he have to do to do it. It’s the he just has to get himself in the conversation. I think he’s finished 10th, maybe ninth. Uh so he’s gotten in there at least. People know how good he is, but he’s been so far from that line of points that he’s not even close to getting in the top five, top three. He doesn’t have to lead the NHL and he’s not going to. As Lud said, he’s never going to finish above Quinn Hughes, Kale Mar, even guys like Chrin, who’s got 10 goals already, Adam Fox, but he has to get to like the maybe point per game kind of guy, maybe he finishes with 80, 85, and I think his best year was 73 in in 22 23 because if he gets to that point, let’s say Quint, let’s just random number here. Let’s say Kale Mar finishes with 95, 100 points and Melro Hasten has 80. That’s close enough to me where you can kind of start to look at the other things that LZ is talking about. The Miro playing as many minutes as he does, killing penalties as well as he does, matching up with Conor McDavid in threeon-ree and basically shutting the best player in the world down for three minutes. That’s what he has to do in order to get in the conversation is get himself points-wise close enough to it because if you’re not in that area, as Led said, they may not pick the points leader, but if you’re not in the top three of it, you’re probably not even on the board. So for Miro, I think it’s been really surprising to me this year seeing how much more offense he’s produced because, you know, he doesn’t have to be the guy. Thomas Harley is the most offensive player on the blue line in Dallas. But with Harley out and even before, as Les was saying, they had Mero on the power play on the top power play a lot of the season already, he’s shown that ability to be a little more aggressive. I mean, that goal in New Jersey the other night, as much as it’s a wideopen shot coming down the slot, and you’re like, what is what else is he going to do? Of course, he’s going to shoot it. We’ve seen him not shoot that. We’ve seen him coming down there and try to find that back door perfect pass because that’s what he wants to do. That’s his initial instinct with the puck. I think if he gets himself to a point where he can be a point per game kind of guy, then the other intangibles start to come into play with those people because as you said, Owen, it’s not about impressing me. He’ll be, you know, he him Thomas Harley. I think Thomas Harley was on my ballot last year as number five. So, you’re gonna impress the people that see you every day. It’s about impressing that big chunk of people up in Toronto and Montreal that don’t see these guys every night. And I think get yourself within the top 10, top seven of defensive scoring, which is about where he is right now, and you’re at least in the conversation and give yourself a chance. Led, you mentioned penalty kill already, but I wanted to go a little deeper in that because I just took a quick look at short-handed time on ice amongst defenseman in the NHL through this point in the season. No surprise, Essendell once again leads the entire league. He is a mutant in the most wonderful way as he is averaging 4 minutes and 8 seconds of shorthanded time per game and he has over 115 penalty short-handed time on ice minutes already this year. But none of the guys that we would typically expect to be Norris candidates because of their offense are in that top 10 or actually in the top 20 top 25 except for Melro Hkin this year. Could that be enough to not cancel out the offense? Because as Sam said, he’s on on nearly a point per game pace, which is good for Miro’s selection resume. But if he is in the, you know, he’s averaging a little over three minutes a game short-handed, that could at least be a card to play in the argument. Not I don’t not enough. I well I I just don’t think that these guys that are that are making these selections are going to go back and go, “Yeah, but he was in Time Time on Ice on PK Shorthand. He was in the top 25.” I don’t think that’s going to put them over the hump. I I just believe that they’re so geared. Yeah, they should. Well, you’re preaching to the choir right now. You should look a lot deeper. Here’s the problem, Sam. So, and they’re they’ve they’ve tamp danced around this. I don’t think it’ll ever happen, but they’re saying, “Should there be another award for defenseman?” like defensive defenseman. Yeah, I don’t even know if you want to call it that because that just means you don’t get any points and so I don’t know what they would actually criteria would be. But but now I don’t even think that would help Merryill because he falls just below this and he’s really not in known as a the an Essa Lindell because Essa would be the guy at the top of that list for me you know within five or 10 people but and right off hand I can’t think of all the other ones I would pick but the other one that would stand out to me because of as we all got to see it are the four nations and we don’t see them a lot in Carolina but Jacob Slavven and Lindell are the two that always come to mind when we talk about really good defensive defense. Hedman is that rare combination of having a little bit of everything. And I think the reason why Miro doesn’t get more of the Victor Hedman treatment is he just isn’t that massive physical human presence that Hedman is, but few are. I I just don’t know if it actually I and I’m sure Mural would love that award, but I think at the end of the day because he’s part of a group, part of a team that it’s the ultimate prize is the bigger award that they want. and and so I think they would anybody would give up those awards to win that that big trophy as a team. I just think he’s he’s one of the top five defenseman in the league. However you want to slice it, whether you want to put them defensively or offensively, I don’t know if he’s ever going to be able to crack that that one over the top until a couple of those guys, you know, miss some games during the season and they don’t have or they have a poor season, which they generally don’t. Um, so I think it’s going to be tough for him, but but again, the end of the day, it’s the team that matters. Sam, when we’re recording this Friday, December 5th, before the game against the San Jose Sharks, Miro is a top five defensive offensive player as far as tied for fifth with 24 points, but he’s nine points behind Kale Mar. Again, we have twothirds of the season left to go. But if he’s in your top five, right, we’ve got Macar, Warensky, Fox, Bousard, Chikin, Morrisy, Hkin, and John Carlson, Jake Sanderson, and of course, because he’s been injured a little bit, Quinn Hughes. But if he’s in his top five, maybe top three, I think there’s something there. Yeah, that that’s I think the key. And as L said, he he doesn’t care, right? It’s Miro doesn’t care about a whole lot other than going out and playing games, but it is it would be cool for the fan base. And I think that’s what these awards are for. It’s cool for, you know, the the GMs and everyone to have a guy who won a big award. It was it was a huge moment when Jamie Ben won that award during a not so great season where they missed the playoffs, but for the fan base, the stars don’t get a whole lot of these awards, you know, which is fine if they have three Stanley Cups in the last 15 years, but they don’t. So for for this fan base to have, you know, now they have Mico Ranton who likes to pick up some awards and lead some some things in scoring. They have defenseman that can do it. Thomas Harley, I would not be surprised, gets himself into Norris conversation in his future. It would be cool for the fan base itself to get one of these major awards. The Art Ross was a big one, but one of these uh you know, the Selkies, the the MVP, the the um Norris, one of those big ones to have to hang up in that trophy case that’s over there at uh at Frisco. And I think that Mir for Miro to do it, even for Harley to do it, if we’re talking about either one of them, they need to be top three to four of scoring and then get themselves at least some points. I have one thing I want to throw in. Okay. Do you guys think that if they by the end of the year would overtake Colorado in the standings wise, that would help? Because to me, that would be saying that Mero Hasten did this to get or helped do this to get them. I just wonder if that would be, you know, that can chew on this. Roman Yosi won the Norris Trophy in 2020. Now, it was co shortened because of they had to stop the season in March. Yeah. PK Suban won one too. In 69 games, he had 65 points. John Carlson had 75 that year, but Yosi 10 points less was given the award because of his overall importance to the Predators and of course his overall play. That to me, that’s your formula is you don’t have to be number one in offense, but you’ve got to be to the point where they look at the other guy and say, “Hey, more well-rounded.” What year was that? 2020. How many goals will Vetkin get that year? About 70. Probably. Carlson was giving him the puck off. He’s getting a lot of points because of that. and and they could say it’d be fair to say Mar’s getting in because of McKinnon, you know, and but but again, the same thing here is that, you know, Mural is going to be getting a lot of points because of the power play and I could name one guy, but it’s really because of five of them. So, I I don’t know. I honestly I I just think that because those other two guys have it. Everybody wants We just talked about this the other day. If somebody offered u Quinn Hughes for I don’t even know who we were talking about would you trade Harley was that and we all immediately went yes and if it and has that opinion changed and it no and if it was Mar would you yes yes because they’re that good I don’t does does Miro have that out there does Mirill have that perception of if you use the same kind of guys for whoever you’re talking about trading for does he have that I don’t think he has it but I don’t think he has it he doesn’t demand like he dominates the game. When we watch him, we see it. But he doesn’t, if you watch Kale Mar, you see him everywhere. He dominates the He’s pretty good in his defensive end. He’s good at breakouts like Miro, but he’s also carrying the puck a ton. He’s setting up some crazy uh skill. Let’s let’s not even forget about that. The skilled plays, it’s not just points either. You you go watch a highlight reel of Kale Mar versus Murro Hasten, they look like totally different players. That part of it gets the eye test that you guys are talking about. the he dominates the game just like Kale Mar, but you don’t notice it as much unless you’re really looking for it. And here’s the other thing that I would add to that, and I haven’t seen every game that Quinn Hughes and Kale Mar have played against a guy like Conor McDavid. They would probably be the kind of players that the way that they keep Conor McDavid quiet or as quiet as you can is because they have the puck. We’ve seen how Miro can defend against Conor McDavid. The most dangerous guy, and we’re talking about a guy that’s skating backwards. Yes. And he keeps a gap and and so and that to me would go into into the formula for me. I don’t how you do that, but I’m just saying that we’ve been able to see and I and I watch him. I still remember three years ago there was a puck that turned over the neutral zone and McDavid was actually going the direction uh Mirror was going the other direction towards the offensive zone and McDavid just was kind of sliding up through the offensive going towards the offensive and on a dime he stopped and he was stride for stride with him skating backwards. I I I’ve never seen it like that against anybody against Mar. And from then on, I’m like the guy and I watched him the last couple weeks ago. I don’t remember who we were playing against. He just can stay Well, it was probably McDavid. It was threeon-ree the last time they came in here. I believe that was uh early November. Yeah. And he McDavid couldn’t do anything. McDavid looked, you know, just basically frustrated in the whole game because Mural shut him down. Do the other guys do that? I don’t know if they can do that like Murrell can. What do you guys think as we wrap up this mini pod and with twothirds of the NHL regular season to go? What do you need to see from Miro Heskinan to get the conversation enough to maybe getting the votes he needs to win his first ever Norris Trophy?

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Could this finally be the year Miro Heiskanen breaks through and earns serious Norris Trophy consideration? Owen Newkirk, Craig Ludwig and Sam Nestler dive deep into whether the Dallas Stars’ franchise defenseman has built the résumé, and the league-wide respect, to challenge perennial favorites like Cale Makar and Quinn Hughes. With Heiskanen logging massive minutes, driving elite defensive results, elevating his offensive production and carrying the Stars’ blue line through major injuries, the crew debates whether his all-around dominance, legacy value, and matchup ability against the NHL’s best players could push him into the top tier of voters’ ballots. They explore how media perception, point totals, team success, and the evolution of Miro’s game all factor into whether he can finally claim a Norris — and what he must do over the final two-thirds of the season to make it happen.

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